June 17, 2025 • 41 mins
Kate Camp is a poet, author, and ocean swimmer. She's also the organiser of the annual '9 Bays of Matariki' winter swims and the '12 Bays of Christmas' summer swims.
In this episode Kate talks about when and how she started sea swimming, the art of quickly changing out of wet togs into warm clothes, and the importance of the swim community. She also reads a poem called 'Freyberg Carpark' – featuring Graham from episode 10! – from her new book, 'Makeshift Seasons' (Te Herenga Waka University Press, 2025).
Follow the Matariki swims (or come if you're in Wellington) via the Facebook event page
Buy a copy of Makeshift Seasons from Unity Books
Read Kate's article 'Why I won't write about swimming' on The Spinoff
Author photo by Ebony Lamb
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This month you can sponsor Shona for The Big Swim (Coastguard NZ fundraiser) : bigswim.org.nz/s-riddell
Send any thoughts, suggestions, praise, feedback etc. to swimchatswithshona at gmail dot com or leave a comment. Remember to follow or subscribe to the podcast (it's free) so you don't miss an episode. Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome to Swim Chats. I'm Shona Riddell, a writer,
former journalist and ocean swimmer from Altero in New
Zealand. On this podcast, I talked to a
whole range of swimmers about how they got started and the
things they've learned. A few notes before we get
started. If you're listening to this in
June, it's not too late to donate to The Big Swim, which is
(00:27):
raising funds for Coast Guard New Zealand.
Every dollar counts, so see the link in the show notes to learn
more or to make a donation. Also, you're always welcome to
get in touch with me via Swim Chats with shona@gmail.com with
any thoughts or suggestions about the podcast, or you can
leave a comment below the episode.
Please remember to hit, follow or subscribe and leave a five
(00:50):
star rating, which helps other people find it too and share the
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I can see the listener numbers growing and it's really cool.
OK, let's get started with today's Swim Chat.
I'm talking to poet, author and ocean swimmer Kate Camp.
(01:10):
We're in the middle of June now.Winter has arrived.
The sea temperature has dropped to about 10° in the mornings,
maybe 11, and the air temperature is often half of
that. And we're approaching the Maori
New Year, or Matariki in New Zealand, which means we're also
approaching a national holiday. And that's quite a new thing for
(01:34):
our country as well, to have a national holiday sort of towards
the end of June. And as part of that, in
Wellington we have a series of Matariki swims which are
organised by Kate Camp, who is joining me this evening.
And what that means is we have 9swims and they're at different
(01:55):
days, times and beaches. First of all Kate, welcome to
swim chats. That was quite a long monologue
from me. Nice to be here.
Welcome. Can you tell us why they're in
nine swims? Yeah, there's 9 swims because
Machadiki is about the rising ofthe Machadiki star cluster and
(02:16):
there are nine stars in that cluster.
So the the mother star of the cluster is the star that's
called Machadiki and then there's eight other stars in the
cluster. So yeah, I work at to Papa the
National Museum of New Zealand and we've always marked
Machadiki and we've done a lot too like foster knowledge of it.
(02:36):
And a few years ago we, when thepuppet holiday, it was launched,
it was launched at TE Papa. And at that time we were, you
know, a lot of us were talking about what would be the rituals.
How will people come to mark Matadiki?
Because for a lot of people, including a lot of Maori, have
never necessarily grown up doingthings particularly for
Matadiki. So I've just got into my ocean
(02:58):
swimming not that long before then.
So I thought, yeah, I'm going toswim every day for 9 days to
mark the nine stars of Matadiki.That's awesome.
And so is this the third year that it's been going?
Yeah, yeah, I'm just counting onmy fingers.
Yeah, but 22/23/24. So this will be the 4th year
(03:19):
actually. Yeah, 2022.
What's the first year? The fourth year, well, and so
every June you do a Facebook event post and you post, you
know where this one's going to be and when, and people mark if
they're going or interested. And I've noticed that it's
almost up to two. Yeah, well, well, as you know, I
(03:41):
also do the 12 days of Christmas, which I can't take
credit for that plan. I copied that off someone in the
UK and the Christmas one was almost getting to be a bit huge.
Like I think the proportion of people who are interested versus
who actually do it in winter, it's quite, it's quite different
from in the summertime. So I would expect Machadiki
(04:02):
swims would probably be a dozen people, whereas the summer ones
the were like getting up to maybe 50 for some of them.
So Oh well, yeah. And it, it feels like from
Speaking of someone who's attended them, it feels a bit
like a flash mob. I don't know if people still use
that term, but it's just a random group of people show up
(04:23):
in their talks, get in the sea, sort of Bob and chat, get out
and then carry on with their day.
And it's. Yeah, I described it as a splash
mob. A splash mob?
Even better. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a
sense of, you know, there's a sense of community around people
who swim in the sea. And the weird thing is, I feel
(04:44):
like even when I'm swimming on my own, I still feel that sense
of community because I don't know, it's just, you know, that
you're doing something and otherpeople are doing it in different
places. And you maybe see people like,
it's so often the case that you turn up to someone and you
think, Oh my God, I'm mad. I can't believe I'm about to go
for a swim. And then you look and there's
already someone there, or there's someone you know getting
(05:06):
changed by their car and you think, oh, another mad person.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
And you know, you mentioned thatyou do the same swims in the
summer. Having said that, in Wellington,
our summers are not always particularly hot around
Christmas. Like last Christmas in
particular, it was quite wintry.So yeah, the weather can be
(05:28):
quite surprising. Yeah, and I mean, we were so
lucky in Wellington because Wellington is so windy and it's
often the wind that, you know, makes you and pets you swim the
most because if it's raining hercase, you're already wet.
But we're so lucky with the different bays that there's
(05:49):
usually always when you can findthat sheltered.
And actually that's what I find the biggest challenge of having
like a planned series of swims is trying to choose the bays in
advance. And then, you know, if there's
just a really horrendous storm comes in from One Direction or
whatever, you know, sometimes you need to adjust at the last
minute. Yeah.
(06:09):
So how do you plan them? Do you look at a long range
forecast a few weeks in advance?I am a premium subscriber to
windy.com. This is not a commercial
endorsement, but I did treatmentthat about a year ago.
So and I do find that that's that it is very accurate even a
long way out in terms of wind, wind direction.
(06:30):
But yeah, but I mean, once you get to sort of two weeks out,
you know, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's less accurate all the
time. So yes, I just try and and I try
and pick bays that, you know, like most bays in Wellington,
even if the weather's bad, it's still safe.
So I'd say Island Bay is probably the trickiest one.
(06:51):
But I find even if it's rough, you can go down the other end
where the boats are and it's usually pretty pretty safe down
there. You were saying this is going to
be the 4th year, Have you? So from the first time you
organize one to now, have you learned a lot about organizing
random swim events as anything? As well, I don't know, I don't I
(07:17):
think I probably just I probablythink everything I knew about I
probably need to start off with,which is that I love.
I mean, I'm quite extroverted and when I get into something, I
love to then like tell other people about it and have other
people involved. But I also don't like to
micromanage or do admin. So.
So I was always, and I work in comms and marketing.
(07:37):
So right from the start I was very clear that this is just
something I'm doing for fun. And if people want to come
along, they can join in and, youknow, give some advice on the
Facebook post about do's and don'ts.
But then I try to not become like the holder of any lost
property or the boss of the bossof anyone.
(07:59):
Yeah. And you must have some hardcore
people who come to every single swap.
Yeah, including my mom, my mom who's 82, whatever, however old
she is. And yeah, she's become a
hardcore sea swimmer in the lastfew years, so.
That's cool. Is that from you organizing
these events or was that something she was doing anyway?
Yeah, no, she's got into sea swimming through me, although
(08:21):
she's always been a swimmer and a good swimmer, whereas I only
learned to swim in my late 40s so.
All right, well, I'll post a link in the show notes if anyone
wants to follow along because I know you post pictures from each
swim and. Yeah.
So part of the reason we're chatting today is because you
(08:42):
have just published a new book. So congratulations on that.
It's a book of poetry called Makeshift seasons.
I did buy a coffee and I I really loved it.
I have to say it's the first book of poetry I've I've read
probably since I did my undergraduate degree in English,
which was, you know, last century.
(09:04):
I loved it. It's just such a, you know, you
sort of see the world through someone else's eyes for a while.
And just all the sensory descriptions, especially your
poems about Island Bay Beach. Yeah, I really loved it.
And I was going to ask, you know, would you feel comfortable
reading one of your poems? Yeah, I'd.
I'd love to. And because one of my poems
(09:25):
features another one of your guests and a location, a
location familiar to Wellington,to Wellington swimmers.
It's a reasonably, reasonably long poem.
And it's. Yeah, I'll just clear my throat.
All right. Freiburg car park.
Graham alone on his chair, his feet on the concrete wall,
(09:48):
looking out to sea. Do we say sea if it's a harbour
looking out to water? He hasn't put any chairs out
yet, any tables, hasn't put out its flag.
The wooden doors of the kiosk are closed for now.
Wooden like the doors of a stable, or how I imagine a
stable would be. I, who have never been of
(10:10):
horses, when I waited for coffeehere Saturday, a woman, freshly
cold from the water and dressed in the oversized fleece, called
an UDI, spoke to me abruptly, let's say fast and unexpectedly,
of her depression. Swimming has made a huge
(10:31):
difference in her life. It is life changing, I said.
If it is possible to be both sheepish and gently defiant,
then that was my affect. In my hands, a brown paper bag
enclosed A doughnut. It's fuchsia icing scattered
with granola. It could have been a gift for
(10:51):
the infant Jesus, the way I heldit before me.
This car park is a place of manyrituals.
Behind the white beauty of the pool, angled and filled with
rays through its high windows, the pane of rough asphalt under
foot. The ways I stand drying 1 foot
(11:12):
at a time, taking the socks knitted for me, the cow knitted
for me. The gifts of repetition.
Known clothes against my face and body, Domestic vessels, gym
bottle, keep cup. My broken spork.
The pale blue ghost of a leftover mask.
It's white strings and blown outplates I can change anywhere.
(11:36):
This thin blue towel my place oftransformation.
That's beautiful, thank you so much.
Has Graham heard the poem? Yeah, yeah, he has.
And I, I sought his permission before I published it with his,
with his name in it, because he's pretty recognizable to
anyone who knows the kiosk. And he came to the launch of the
(11:58):
book, which was really nice. So that's.
Really special. Yeah, yeah.
That's awesome. And I mean, it's always the way
when you write a poem, you know,you don't really.
Well, it is for me, anyway. I'm not really consciously
thinking about it. I'm just writing the things that
had popped into my mind. And it was only when I'd
finished that poem that I realized how many how much
religious imagery there is in it.
(12:20):
And I feel like, you know, the way I describe Freiburg Pole, it
almost makes it sound like a church with its high windows and
the rays streaming in. And, and I mean, Freiburg is
like that. And I feel like, yeah, there's
definitely a huge spiritual dimension to the whole
experience of ocean swimming that I think we all feel.
That is so true. And a lot of people listening to
(12:42):
this podcast will be Wellington Ocean swimmers who also swim at
Freiburg Pole and will recognizea lot of what you have described
and will feel very similarly. I know I do.
I love the the idea about the the car park being a place of
transformation as well. You know, for a lot of people
driving past, it will just be a car park.
(13:03):
But yeah, for us. My second.
Home. Yeah, I spend a lot of time
there. Yeah, that's like, you know, and
now my, I mean, I don't really like to go into the changing
rooms. The changing rooms, they are
horrible. I can never be bothered going to
the ones at the pool. And I'm happy changing up my
car, you know, And it always cracks me up to see people have
got all their little life hacks for changing up the car and
(13:26):
their little mats that they're standing on and their bottles of
water. And yeah, I love all that.
That's right. I think most of us start off
with, you know, the togs and thegoggles and the over time.
And I think it was one of your spin off articles where you
talked about the edge of swimming where, yeah, where we
have all these sort of special items like you mentioned in the
(13:47):
poem as well. You have things that are knitted
and you have your keep carpin, just all those little bits and
pieces that are sort of part, almost part of your identity.
Anyway, you know, I saw a woman getting changed there one time
and I laughed. You know, I said the back of
your car looks like a swimming shop, but she had just so much
stuff. And the toe floats and, you
(14:09):
know, all sorts of and it's all kind of garishly luminous.
And yeah, I, and I think, I mean, I'm sure it's the same for
other activities that people getinto, but I also feel with the
ocean swimming because it's it'sa survival factor, you know,
because you're so cold by the time you get out and in that
Wellington wind, it's sort of like, I think you feel an extra
(14:30):
attachment to all those clothes and accoutrements that you're
putting on because it's like that's all that's standing
between you and hypothermia, so.That's true, and you get really
adept at changing fast after a bit of practice at at the
beginning it feels like it takesforever and then.
Although there's one thing I I just, I, I mean, I almost never
put on underwear after. I always just go straight into
(14:53):
my merino track pants and merinoT-shirt.
And the other day I was thinking, oh, just, and then I
get changed into work clothes later and I was thinking, oh,
oh, no, I can, I can eliminate the middleman.
I'll just get changed straight into my work clothes.
And then I realized, no, This iswhy I don't do it because I
can't do it up a bra with my cold.
Hands. It was really difficult.
It was just. Yeah, I was like, really?
(15:14):
Ugly. Yeah.
And anything that slows down theprocess is just what you need,
especially in winter. And so I mentioned before that
you've written to the spin off alittle bit about your swimming.
And I think you and I might bothbe children of the 80s and that,
you know, we started off swimming lessons basically doing
lots of kicking and spinning ourarms around in very cold,
(15:37):
unheated outdoor school pools. Is that where you got started
with your swimming? Yeah, and I, I don't know why I
never learned to swim as a child, but I mean, I did the
lessons and everything, but I think it's probably a
combination of I was very skinny, I had a lazy eye, you
know, so it was always going wonky.
(15:58):
I would get very cold, but and also probably just wasn't very
focused. So I think I got my, the lowest
you could get was the 15 meter certificate and you could swim
to the length of your school pool.
And so I got that and then that was it.
So my mother and sister were both always good swimmers and
could swim, you know, a good distance.
But I've always loved the water and I've always loved being in
(16:20):
the sea. But up until this time in the
last few years of learning to swim, I would never really go
out of my depth or, you know, I just and and always wasn't, you
know, not unconfident, but a cautious person in the water
because I knew I couldn't swim. Yeah, that sounds so much like
me because I was skinny with a lazy eye as well.
(16:45):
And I love the water too. But because I wasn't fast, I
didn't I didn't stick with it. And so I gave it up very young.
And yeah, only really started learning to swim properly a few
years ago. So when you got back into it,
did you have a couple of swimming lessons to to get
started or did you sort of teachyourself?
(17:06):
Yeah, I actually, I, I've been meaning to, you know, it's one
of those things I've been meaning to get around to for
like the last 30 years. And so when I finally did, I
had, I took four months off workto work on my memoir.
And it's the book before this one was a, a book about my life.
And to finish that, I took some time off work and I thought, oh,
(17:26):
well, I've got this time off work.
I'll do swimming lessons. So I did a, a term of private
swimming lessons. I was staying up and, and why
can I did them and calculate andthat was amazing.
I mean super humbling because itwas at a private pool in her
backyard. And the class before me was the
preschool class. So there'd be 6 little toddlers
(17:49):
just finishing up their their lesson.
And then I'd arrive 48 years of age for my for my lesson.
And I sort of thought, I kind ofimagined once I got into the
pole, I was like, Oh yeah, I'll have a lesson or something.
I'll probably find out I can swim and I'm actually pretty
good. But I wasn't, I was just like, I
couldn't even swim. Yeah, I would have, I struggled
(18:11):
to swim even the length of that 15 meter pole.
Like I just, I think like a lot of people who don't swim or
learn a swim as I just try and go away too fast and just, yeah,
just sort of flap around. So yeah, I think, and I can
still remember the feeling of doing, you know, because the
(18:31):
pole at Coastlands at Putterpronis a beautiful pole there.
And I can still remember doing my first length there and
thinking, Oh my God, am I ever going to make it to the end in
the sense of achievement when I did my first two lengths in a
row. And and then it got to the point
where, you know, just gradually over time, I was just swimming
further and further and further in the pole.
(18:54):
And I thought since that can do this.
So how did you transition or expand from the pool into the
sea? I'd heard I had a workmate,
friend of mine, Ellie, and she had been a keen swimmer.
And then during COVID she wasn'table to swim at the pole
anymore. And so she had started sea
(19:14):
swimming and that and then she'dreally got into that.
So I thought, OK, I'm going to give it a go.
You know, she was a, she was a devotee.
And I thought, I'll swim at Freiburg, I'll do some links in
the pole. I think this might have been her
recommendation. I thought I'll do some links in
the pole and then I'll go down and swim at the beach.
(19:34):
And my goal was this would have been December summer of 2021.
My goal is to swim to the raft by the end of the summer.
You know So I did my 10 links inthe pool and then cuz this was
still covered I can remember what a feff I had to get out of
the pool. Put my mask on course no ear
loops because I had a swimming cap on.
(19:54):
So somehow hold a mask over my face, have a COVID laminated
COVID pass in my hand. Had to then to get my towel go
out onto the beach to have my swim.
And of course. Swim out to the raft.
I did it the first time. It was suddenly like 50 yards or
something. But to me, it had always loomed
as this, like, huge distance. And yeah.
(20:16):
And so then I thought, oh, that wasn't too bad at all.
So once I started sea swimming, it pretty quickly became
regular. And then, yeah.
And then daily. Do you still swim in the pool
now or are you completely a sea swimmer?
Almost never. You know, funnily enough, the
only time I usually swim in the pool is if I'm staying up in
(20:36):
Waikiki because I don't really enjoy my beach swimming there as
much. The water is so shallow and you
can't really swim and it's sort of very just open and exposed.
So. And when I do swim in the pool,
I do enjoy it, but most of my exposure to the pool now is
sitting in the sauna at Friday watching other people swim after
(20:57):
I've had my sea swim. And do you mostly swim alone or
are you in a group? Combo.
So I I love swimming alone and Ilove swimming with my friends.
And yeah, I've got swimming friends who I joined a group
that was already already there and they sort of made-up by
Facebook Messenger. A lot of them are retired.
(21:17):
So, you know, for us people who are still working, you know, I
get a lot of FOMO because they'll be swimming during the
week and I can't go. But yeah.
And then sometimes they'll meet a friend in the morning and swim
at Friberg with a friend or, youknow, or friend at Island Bay.
And other times they'll swim on my own.
And I just really enjoyed both. And do you tend to be a morning
(21:38):
swimmer? Yeah, yeah.
Just sort of pre work. Yeah.
And I just think that it's because it's a habit now.
I feel like my day doesn't really feel like it started
properly if I hadn't had a swim.And then I sort of, I also, to
me, the water feels a lot colderwhen I swim late in the day.
(21:58):
I think it's probably just because my body is so used to
the cold in the at the early time that if I swim in the
afternoon I often get a bit of ashock of how cold it seems.
All right, Yeah. And do you, do you have a
favorite beach or is it sort of like the Mato Deki swims where
you like to mix it up and swim? Yeah, a little bit.
(22:21):
I always used to say my answer to that always used to be no.
I like every beach. You know, I've got lots of
beaches I like in different ways.
But actually I think Island Bay has now become my favorite
beach. I do swim there a lot and just
think over time. I just love the island.
I swam to the island for the first time.
I've only done it once. So I swam to island the first
(22:41):
for the first time the summer and it was amazing.
But yeah, just the just the Bay.I mean, it's close to home, the
waters so clear. The island is amazing.
The boats are cute. There's the amazing Reiter Angus
painting that I always think of when I'm there looking at the
boats. And yeah, it's just a magical
(23:02):
place. It's part of Tapaturanga Marine
Reserve, isn't it there? So while you were swimming, did
you see a lot of marine life? Not so much marine life, but
when out, when you swim out to the island, you swim over an
amazing seaweed forest As you get close to the island and the
water's so clear and it just, I've never seen so many
(23:23):
different types of seaweed. It really I felt like I was
watching and a nature documentary about seaweed.
It was like it was so crystal clear.
It was almost hard to believe that you were looking at it in
real life. Something about seeing it
through water rather than through air.
It almost is like super super clarity.
Oh that sounds really beautiful.I haven't done that yet.
(23:44):
I would like to do it. Did you go on a particularly
calm day with Was there any current to deal with?
There wasn't any current. Well, did get a little bit of a
light chop on the way back. It was one of those things, you
know, where I've been thinking of doing it for ages and
thinking, oh, I wouldn't want todo it unless they hit someone
with me on a kayak and you know,blah, blah, blah.
And then I was meeting friends down there for a swim and my
(24:06):
friend Jim said, oh, maybe you should swim to the island.
And I was like, maybe so I put my wet suit in the car because
normally I just swim in togs. But then I didn't have my wet
suit on. I just had when I had my toe
float. And I thought, oh, OK.
And there were a couple of womenthere who we didn't know.
But again, with that sense of community, we chatted to these
women and they were swimming outto the island that swam out to
(24:28):
it numerous times before. And so we thought, OK.
And that kind of gave me the theconfidence.
So three me, a couple of friendsand these two women who were
swim mentors went out together. Yeah, it was great.
It's really useful to swim with local people who have local
knowledge to have done a swim before and they can tell you
(24:51):
what to expect. Absolutely.
And it's not, I mean, it's not that far.
In some ways it's not that far, but it's when you don't know and
it's an unknown current. And it's basically like, I mean,
you're, you're on the obviously on the land side of Island Bay,
but there's always the haunting feeling that beyond Island Bay,
there's not a lot, not a lot to hang on to.
(25:13):
So. Yeah.
And with winter swimming, I knowthat you have a preference for
the Orca bright orange neoprene scale cap because I've got one
of those too, and that's quite agood way to deal with brain
freeze during these colder months.
Is there other gear that you like to wear?
During I don't wear anything. Now I've been through different
(25:34):
phases. Like I had little booties that I
wore for a while and I do have awet suit, but I only worn that
just a handful of times. I'm going on longer, longer
swims. I just generally I, I mean, I
think a lot of it's just chance and metabolism.
Like I think I'm quite cold, cold resistant because because I
(25:55):
swam with quite a few different people.
I think it's not necessarily a thing of age or body size or
gender or whatever. I think some people are just
more cold sensitive than others.And I don't think I'm
particularly cold sensitive. So I seem to do OK and but yeah,
I mean even before I had the neoprene hat, someone told me in
(26:16):
the Fryeburg changing room actually someone said oh just
wear 2 hats leaving. That makes a huge difference
just having two swim caps on in the winter, so.
We often get good advice from random people, don't we?
Different advice and it's it's generally all pretty youthful,
but you you have to hear it fromsomebody.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's yeah.
(26:38):
And, and I mean, I find that when I'm swimming, you know,
people often ask you for advice too.
So I think it's a real Yeah. It's just another sign of the
kind of community vibe. Yeah, you mentioned in your poem
having a an abrupt conversation with me, someone you'd never met
before. And it's often, isn't it?
Yeah. When you're sort of jumping up
(26:58):
and down trying to keep warm after a swim.
And. Yeah.
Yeah, and quite and quite a personal.
Yeah, and, and quite personal and I think as well, like I
really love it when you swim out.
You know, I don't usually go very far, but if I've swum out
to a first boy or something and it cracks me up that then you
get to 1st boy and they'll be like, oh, there'll be just a
couple of people bubbling aroundthere and it's like, oh, good
(27:19):
bully. It's kind of, it's like you're
waiting in the queue for your coffee or something, you know?
But yeah, it's, it's weird. It's a weird kind of
sociability. Yeah.
And so you're quite a, I'd say you're a pretty seasoned swimmer
now. You've been swimming in the open
water for a few years. Do you get people coming to you
(27:40):
for advice? I don't know, yeah, maybe people
people ask me things, but I think so they're probably not
coming to me for advice. They're probably just getting
it, getting it unsolicited. It's not.
And it's not so much advice. It's more just like life hacks,
you know, like I really, I've always been someone who's loved
(28:01):
life hacks of any kind and my family or my husband will tease
me about it. And so, you know, if I get onto
a new thing that I think is really, really good, like I got
onto these rub this rubber matting that you buy at Kmart.
And it's like, I think it's designed to be like deck tiles,
you know, so if you want to create a deck over your grass,
but it's really great for standing on, especially if
(28:23):
you're unfortunate enough to be changing in the changing rooms
at Freiburg, which are always disgustingly wet under foot and
like mangy and it just insulatesyou.
But it also is kind of high up enough off the ground that your
clothes, when they dangle onto it, don't get wet.
So yeah, I think I'm I'm quite likely to foist my ideas or
(28:44):
products on people of things I think are really good.
Well, it's a good life hack. Do you have any other swim hacks
that you you sort of live by that you'd recommend?
Well, I do like my, I like, I bought a lot of swimming stuff
that I've been never really used.
Like I bought one of those big capacious coats and I don't use
that. And I've got a poncho towel, you
(29:06):
know, but I only really use thatin the summer when I just go
home in it. But I think my favorite swimming
item is my towel that I refer toin that poem, my thin blue
towel, which is a Turkish cottontowel from Stoked who make those
big ponchos. And it's just so good in terms
of the size, the thinness of it,how it dries so quickly.
(29:26):
And yeah, that's and that's my favorite 1 to get changed.
And and then yeah, just the absence of underwear I believe
is another another report of factor secret of my success.
Yeah, I would concur with that one.
And yeah, the Turkish hood, hooded towel, I've got one of
those two. And yeah, I think of it as my
(29:46):
mobile changing room because youcan.
Yeah, it's not all beaches have changing rooms, so.
No. And I don't.
And I generally, yeah, I mean, at least it's right there like a
good one, like, you know, and there's lots of good changing
rooms in Wellington. But but if I have to cross the
road or something, I might as well just get changed on the
bench or by my car. Yeah, exactly.
(30:08):
I don't know if you've come across the pet bed warmers that
some swimmers have that you actually buy them from a pet
shop. I've got 1 and you heat them up
in the microwave and they stay warm for ages.
Oh amazing. Yeah, it's like a like a hot
water bottle, but they just staywarm for longer.
No, a friend, a friend of mine has just got a like it's like an
(30:28):
electric blanket foot warmery thing that when you go home you
put your feet into it and it's like it's like 1 big boot that
both feet go into I think. And it's like blanket.
Oh. That sounds like bliss.
Yeah, but no, I mean, I just have a big puffer coat and I
always have a hot cup of tea in the in a car and that and then I
(30:49):
just jump up and down a few times and, you know, my car's
got a heated steering wheel, which is amazing.
So yeah, that's the that's I usually find I can, I can warm
up reasonably well, but I actually also enjoy the thing of
being cold after my swimming. Just gradually, like you know,
sometimes I have a sauna or a shower or whatever afterwards,
(31:09):
but I also quite enjoy just slowly returning to room
temperature. Yeah, having that fresh, tingly
feeling of getting out, Yeah. Do you set swim goals for
yourself? Do you sort of have targets that
you meet? Or is it more you just like to
get in every day and enjoy the water?
Yeah, more just that I like that.
(31:31):
I just enjoy doing it. I mean, I do have, you know,
I've had goals that I've, that I've met in certain distances
that I wanted to like I've, I'veswam around, around the
lighthouse only a couple of times, but that was always a
goal before I'd done that. And then I went on a swimming
holiday to Ozzy, to the Whitsundays.
(31:52):
And that was the did some long swims and that, and that was
when I'd only just started out. So that was probably quite
demanding for where I was at then.
I was very slow and then I did the Hooker River swim this
summer with friends, went up anddid that.
That's really easy though. Yeah, it's only three
kilometers. It's 3 kilometers, but I mean,
it only takes 45 minutes. So it's three times faster than
(32:15):
any other swimming that you do. Yeah.
So I tend to have, but it's more, yeah, they're more goals
of things I want to experience rather than I'm not sort of
driven by the the distance or a number of days or it's just
really like a thing of just the doing.
It is the destination for me. Yeah, a lot of people who come
(32:37):
on this podcast talk about having encounters with marine
life, sometimes unexpected ones.You have you had any incredible
experiences that you'd want to share?
Yeah, I mean, I think the most incredible one was on the first
time we did the 12 days of Christmas.
And on Christmas Eve we were at Princess Bay.
(32:59):
This is two or three years ago now and we've been, we've been
out for quite a while already. And then we saw dolphins over
towards Hatton Bay and there's apot of dolphins in the water
with us. And they were, you know, they're
probably a couple of 100 metres away, but, you know, clearly,
clearly visible. And that was amazing.
And eventually, and they hung around.
Eventually we had to go in because we've been in the water
(33:19):
for like 45 minutes already. So that was pretty awesome.
I've never seen anything when I've been swimming on my own.
I've never seen anything sort ofclose up, which I, I think I'd
probably just freak out if I, ifI did say I'm not.
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure if it's something I
want to wish for or or not. When I went to Aussie to do the
(33:41):
long swim, then the three kilometer swim was the longest
one we did. And you're just swimming along
the side of a, of a beach. So you could stand up at any
time. But about one minute into the
swim, I swim over the biggest Stingray I've ever seen.
I was like, I was like a meter and a half wide or something.
(34:02):
So after that, I never put my feet on the ground again.
That was quite a good incentive to just keep keep swimming.
But yeah, saw heaps of amazing marine life on that trip.
It looks so beautiful there. I've seen, you know, videos and
photos of it. I haven't been there.
Was that with effortless swimming or Swim Trek one of
those? It was Swim Trek.
Yeah, I think it was from Trick here.
(34:23):
Anyway, it was one of those. And yeah, we were on a sailing,
we're on a sailing ship and, youknow, stayed for four nights.
And I think that it was a real education as well, because they
were, I mean, it was almost entirely.
Were they any men on the trip? I don't know.
But it was mainly women, mainly middle-aged women and real
(34:45):
serious swimmers, you know, I mean, I was definitely the least
capable swimmer on board ship, no doubt about it.
Was just really inspiring to hear what people get up to.
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, well, I'm definitely
inspired by hearing about other people's swim adventures.
I'm came to try new ones. Are there any books or as a
(35:09):
writer, are there any swim booksthat you particularly enjoy or
would recommend? I there's a really nice
compilation, I've forgotten whatthe what the name of it is now,
of essays and writing from people swimming at the Hampstead
Ladies Pond. So that was another little swim
destination when I was in the UKand a couple of years ago I went
(35:31):
and swam with my mother at the Hampstead Ladies Pond and
there's a really cool collectionof of reminiscences of swimming
there. Yeah.
What was it like something? Good.
I mean, it was more I think I enjoyed it more for the just the
experience and the actual being there.
I'm not a huge fan of swimming in freshwater, not that I've
done a lot of it, but in ponds, like it's a bit like, oh, it's
(35:55):
weedy and, and, and you know, the bottom is muddy so you sort
of don't want to touch the bottom or whatever.
So I, I don't think it really rates in terms of from the
swimming point of view, but froma cultural experience point of
view to be doing wild swimming in the heart of London.
And it's in a beautiful part, you know, Hampstead and it's a
(36:17):
beautiful part of the world. And it's sort of, yeah, the
storied history of the whole ponds.
It's pretty cool. That's pretty iconic, isn't it?
Yeah, and I swam at Canary Wharfas well, which is a bit of a
fair if you have to join the National Open Water Swimming
Society and get a wristband and this and that and the other to
swim there. But that's pretty amazing.
Then you're swimming among the skyscrapers and the Thames.
(36:39):
It's like a cut off section of the Thames.
The water's crystal clear and yeah, you're swimming, you know,
you breathe out one side and there's like, you know, 30 story
HSBC and they breathe out the other side.
There's some other tower blocks.So it's pretty cool.
That's incredible. Well, I didn't know about that.
And so they won't let you in if you don't have the the
(37:00):
wristband. Yeah, no, you have to be a
member and you have to book and,you know, yeah, it's, it's a bit
of a fact, but it's definitely worth it.
You know, a real, a real unusualtourist experience when in
London. Yeah, very unusual.
Well, that's the thing with being a swimmer, right?
You see things from a different perspective to most people.
(37:23):
Yeah, yeah, I was in Canada. I went to Canada last year and
swam in Lake Ontario, you know, from, from Toronto and swam in
the sea at Vancouver and yeah, it's just cold.
It totally changes how I, you know, that's the first thing I
look up now if I'm going somewhere.
It's like where you can swim. Yeah, it's like, and, and it's
(37:45):
because people are so social andit's such a community.
Wherever you go, there's always a, you know, Vancouver, a water
swimmers group or whatever that you can join and then ask people
for their advice. And I find that really good
people really helpful. And so like I met up with
someone in Toronto, I said, you know, has anyone got any big
swimming recommendations? And someone said, Oh yeah, I'm
swimming at so and so beach. You know, I'll be there at 9:00
(38:08):
on Saturday morning if you want to come for a swim and just
gives you that bit of confidence.
And what was the water like there it?
Was really nice, actually. It was like 20°.
It was beautiful. Yeah.
I mean, obviously it's like frozen solid within probably a
month after that. But I was there in autumn and,
you know, late summer, the water's still catching up, so
(38:29):
the water was still nice. Awesome.
And is there anywhere else in the world that you would like to
swim? I'd really like to do the swim
from Alcatraz to San Francisco and it is apparently quite
doable. I think it's 2.4 KS, strong
currents and everything, but it's obviously really popular.
They have a very well oiled machine of tourist boats and
(38:52):
stuff. So that's on my, that's on my
list. But yeah, you know, you'll find
me. You can easily find me sitting
up in bed browsing swim trips inCroatia or whatever.
Probably. They're all probably the
distances that they do are really long.
Yeah. They're sort of like, oh, we,
you know, this is a moderate trip.
We swim 6 KS a day. Oh my God.
(39:12):
You know, that's a lot of way. That's a lot of swimming, isn't
it? Yeah.
I mean, most of the time I'm just bobbing around, you know,
I'm not necessarily swimming anywhere, so.
Well, Kate, I've really enjoyed talking to you this evening.
Is there anything else you want to mention that I haven't
already asked you about? No, just I think I'm just
(39:32):
grateful for, you know, like people like yourself doing the
podcast and all those people outthere who are doing things for
the swimming community. I think it's cold.
And yeah, all those fellow, all those fellow swimmers out there
keeping an eye on each other. Yeah, we have.
We're really lucky with our swimcommunity in Wellington and I'm
(39:53):
looking forward to seeing how many swimmers come to this
year's Matter Leaky Swims. Yeah, I.
Think it might be more than lastyear?
It seems to. Be Well, let's say, Yeah, I was
interested in your podcast chat with Graham, you know, his, you
know, having been at Freiburg for a while assessing the number
of swimmers. And, you know, because I've only
got my own experience to judge by, which has been over the last
(40:17):
few years. And I'm always amazed at how
many people, you know, like kindof weekday at 7:30 at Friburg
and you'll be like, this is like40, yeah.
Yeah, it's incredible. And I think we were joking when
we were organizing the swim thatyou said the first rule of swim
club is that you talk about swimclub and it is a bit like that I
(40:40):
find. Like, I try not to over talk
about it to people who've heard me, you know, but I am pretty
evangelical about it. You know when you find something
that you love and feel so good, you just want to share it with
everybody? Yeah, and also other people find
it so crazy that then they remember it about you, and so
(41:01):
then they ask you about it, you know?
Yeah, that's. People say to me all the time,
did you slim today? And it's like, you know, I've
been swimming every day for the last four years, so.
You're always yes, you need to get a T-shirt made.
But yes, thanks for listening tothis episode of Swim Chats.
(41:22):
Please remember to follow or subscribe to the podcast so you
don't miss an episode. And if you enjoyed it, you can
leave a five star rating and review which helps other people
find it too. Enjoy the water and we'll see
you next time.
Welcome to Swim Chats. I'm Shona Riddell, a writer,
former journalist and ocean swimmer from Altero in New
Zealand. On this podcast, I talked to a
whole range of swimmers about how they got started and the
things they've learned. A few notes before we get
started. If you're listening to this in
June, it's not too late to donate to The Big Swim, which is
(00:27):
raising funds for Coast Guard New Zealand.
Every dollar counts, so see the link in the show notes to learn
more or to make a donation. Also, you're always welcome to
get in touch with me via Swim Chats with shona@gmail.com with
any thoughts or suggestions about the podcast, or you can
leave a comment below the episode.
Please remember to hit, follow or subscribe and leave a five
(00:50):
star rating, which helps other people find it too and share the
podcast with anyone who you think will enjoy it.
I can see the listener numbers growing and it's really cool.
OK, let's get started with today's Swim Chat.
I'm talking to poet, author and ocean swimmer Kate Camp.
(01:10):
We're in the middle of June now.Winter has arrived.
The sea temperature has dropped to about 10° in the mornings,
maybe 11, and the air temperature is often half of
that. And we're approaching the Maori
New Year, or Matariki in New Zealand, which means we're also
approaching a national holiday. And that's quite a new thing for
(01:34):
our country as well, to have a national holiday sort of towards
the end of June. And as part of that, in
Wellington we have a series of Matariki swims which are
organised by Kate Camp, who is joining me this evening.
And what that means is we have 9swims and they're at different
(01:55):
days, times and beaches. First of all Kate, welcome to
swim chats. That was quite a long monologue
from me. Nice to be here.
Welcome. Can you tell us why they're in
nine swims? Yeah, there's 9 swims because
Machadiki is about the rising ofthe Machadiki star cluster and
(02:16):
there are nine stars in that cluster.
So the the mother star of the cluster is the star that's
called Machadiki and then there's eight other stars in the
cluster. So yeah, I work at to Papa the
National Museum of New Zealand and we've always marked
Machadiki and we've done a lot too like foster knowledge of it.
(02:36):
And a few years ago we, when thepuppet holiday, it was launched,
it was launched at TE Papa. And at that time we were, you
know, a lot of us were talking about what would be the rituals.
How will people come to mark Matadiki?
Because for a lot of people, including a lot of Maori, have
never necessarily grown up doingthings particularly for
Matadiki. So I've just got into my ocean
(02:58):
swimming not that long before then.
So I thought, yeah, I'm going toswim every day for 9 days to
mark the nine stars of Matadiki.That's awesome.
And so is this the third year that it's been going?
Yeah, yeah, I'm just counting onmy fingers.
Yeah, but 22/23/24. So this will be the 4th year
(03:19):
actually. Yeah, 2022.
What's the first year? The fourth year, well, and so
every June you do a Facebook event post and you post, you
know where this one's going to be and when, and people mark if
they're going or interested. And I've noticed that it's
almost up to two. Yeah, well, well, as you know, I
(03:41):
also do the 12 days of Christmas, which I can't take
credit for that plan. I copied that off someone in the
UK and the Christmas one was almost getting to be a bit huge.
Like I think the proportion of people who are interested versus
who actually do it in winter, it's quite, it's quite different
from in the summertime. So I would expect Machadiki
(04:02):
swims would probably be a dozen people, whereas the summer ones
the were like getting up to maybe 50 for some of them.
So Oh well, yeah. And it, it feels like from
Speaking of someone who's attended them, it feels a bit
like a flash mob. I don't know if people still use
that term, but it's just a random group of people show up
(04:23):
in their talks, get in the sea, sort of Bob and chat, get out
and then carry on with their day.
And it's. Yeah, I described it as a splash
mob. A splash mob?
Even better. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a
sense of, you know, there's a sense of community around people
who swim in the sea. And the weird thing is, I feel
(04:44):
like even when I'm swimming on my own, I still feel that sense
of community because I don't know, it's just, you know, that
you're doing something and otherpeople are doing it in different
places. And you maybe see people like,
it's so often the case that you turn up to someone and you
think, Oh my God, I'm mad. I can't believe I'm about to go
for a swim. And then you look and there's
already someone there, or there's someone you know getting
(05:06):
changed by their car and you think, oh, another mad person.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
And you know, you mentioned thatyou do the same swims in the
summer. Having said that, in Wellington,
our summers are not always particularly hot around
Christmas. Like last Christmas in
particular, it was quite wintry.So yeah, the weather can be
(05:28):
quite surprising. Yeah, and I mean, we were so
lucky in Wellington because Wellington is so windy and it's
often the wind that, you know, makes you and pets you swim the
most because if it's raining hercase, you're already wet.
But we're so lucky with the different bays that there's
(05:49):
usually always when you can findthat sheltered.
And actually that's what I find the biggest challenge of having
like a planned series of swims is trying to choose the bays in
advance. And then, you know, if there's
just a really horrendous storm comes in from One Direction or
whatever, you know, sometimes you need to adjust at the last
minute. Yeah.
(06:09):
So how do you plan them? Do you look at a long range
forecast a few weeks in advance?I am a premium subscriber to
windy.com. This is not a commercial
endorsement, but I did treatmentthat about a year ago.
So and I do find that that's that it is very accurate even a
long way out in terms of wind, wind direction.
(06:30):
But yeah, but I mean, once you get to sort of two weeks out,
you know, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's less accurate all the
time. So yes, I just try and and I try
and pick bays that, you know, like most bays in Wellington,
even if the weather's bad, it's still safe.
So I'd say Island Bay is probably the trickiest one.
(06:51):
But I find even if it's rough, you can go down the other end
where the boats are and it's usually pretty pretty safe down
there. You were saying this is going to
be the 4th year, Have you? So from the first time you
organize one to now, have you learned a lot about organizing
random swim events as anything? As well, I don't know, I don't I
(07:17):
think I probably just I probablythink everything I knew about I
probably need to start off with,which is that I love.
I mean, I'm quite extroverted and when I get into something, I
love to then like tell other people about it and have other
people involved. But I also don't like to
micromanage or do admin. So.
So I was always, and I work in comms and marketing.
(07:37):
So right from the start I was very clear that this is just
something I'm doing for fun. And if people want to come
along, they can join in and, youknow, give some advice on the
Facebook post about do's and don'ts.
But then I try to not become like the holder of any lost
property or the boss of the bossof anyone.
(07:59):
Yeah. And you must have some hardcore
people who come to every single swap.
Yeah, including my mom, my mom who's 82, whatever, however old
she is. And yeah, she's become a
hardcore sea swimmer in the lastfew years, so.
That's cool. Is that from you organizing
these events or was that something she was doing anyway?
Yeah, no, she's got into sea swimming through me, although
(08:21):
she's always been a swimmer and a good swimmer, whereas I only
learned to swim in my late 40s so.
All right, well, I'll post a link in the show notes if anyone
wants to follow along because I know you post pictures from each
swim and. Yeah.
So part of the reason we're chatting today is because you
(08:42):
have just published a new book. So congratulations on that.
It's a book of poetry called Makeshift seasons.
I did buy a coffee and I I really loved it.
I have to say it's the first book of poetry I've I've read
probably since I did my undergraduate degree in English,
which was, you know, last century.
(09:04):
I loved it. It's just such a, you know, you
sort of see the world through someone else's eyes for a while.
And just all the sensory descriptions, especially your
poems about Island Bay Beach. Yeah, I really loved it.
And I was going to ask, you know, would you feel comfortable
reading one of your poems? Yeah, I'd.
I'd love to. And because one of my poems
(09:25):
features another one of your guests and a location, a
location familiar to Wellington,to Wellington swimmers.
It's a reasonably, reasonably long poem.
And it's. Yeah, I'll just clear my throat.
All right. Freiburg car park.
Graham alone on his chair, his feet on the concrete wall,
(09:48):
looking out to sea. Do we say sea if it's a harbour
looking out to water? He hasn't put any chairs out
yet, any tables, hasn't put out its flag.
The wooden doors of the kiosk are closed for now.
Wooden like the doors of a stable, or how I imagine a
stable would be. I, who have never been of
(10:10):
horses, when I waited for coffeehere Saturday, a woman, freshly
cold from the water and dressed in the oversized fleece, called
an UDI, spoke to me abruptly, let's say fast and unexpectedly,
of her depression. Swimming has made a huge
(10:31):
difference in her life. It is life changing, I said.
If it is possible to be both sheepish and gently defiant,
then that was my affect. In my hands, a brown paper bag
enclosed A doughnut. It's fuchsia icing scattered
with granola. It could have been a gift for
(10:51):
the infant Jesus, the way I heldit before me.
This car park is a place of manyrituals.
Behind the white beauty of the pool, angled and filled with
rays through its high windows, the pane of rough asphalt under
foot. The ways I stand drying 1 foot
(11:12):
at a time, taking the socks knitted for me, the cow knitted
for me. The gifts of repetition.
Known clothes against my face and body, Domestic vessels, gym
bottle, keep cup. My broken spork.
The pale blue ghost of a leftover mask.
It's white strings and blown outplates I can change anywhere.
(11:36):
This thin blue towel my place oftransformation.
That's beautiful, thank you so much.
Has Graham heard the poem? Yeah, yeah, he has.
And I, I sought his permission before I published it with his,
with his name in it, because he's pretty recognizable to
anyone who knows the kiosk. And he came to the launch of the
(11:58):
book, which was really nice. So that's.
Really special. Yeah, yeah.
That's awesome. And I mean, it's always the way
when you write a poem, you know,you don't really.
Well, it is for me, anyway. I'm not really consciously
thinking about it. I'm just writing the things that
had popped into my mind. And it was only when I'd
finished that poem that I realized how many how much
religious imagery there is in it.
(12:20):
And I feel like, you know, the way I describe Freiburg Pole, it
almost makes it sound like a church with its high windows and
the rays streaming in. And, and I mean, Freiburg is
like that. And I feel like, yeah, there's
definitely a huge spiritual dimension to the whole
experience of ocean swimming that I think we all feel.
That is so true. And a lot of people listening to
(12:42):
this podcast will be Wellington Ocean swimmers who also swim at
Freiburg Pole and will recognizea lot of what you have described
and will feel very similarly. I know I do.
I love the the idea about the the car park being a place of
transformation as well. You know, for a lot of people
driving past, it will just be a car park.
(13:03):
But yeah, for us. My second.
Home. Yeah, I spend a lot of time
there. Yeah, that's like, you know, and
now my, I mean, I don't really like to go into the changing
rooms. The changing rooms, they are
horrible. I can never be bothered going to
the ones at the pool. And I'm happy changing up my
car, you know, And it always cracks me up to see people have
got all their little life hacks for changing up the car and
(13:26):
their little mats that they're standing on and their bottles of
water. And yeah, I love all that.
That's right. I think most of us start off
with, you know, the togs and thegoggles and the over time.
And I think it was one of your spin off articles where you
talked about the edge of swimming where, yeah, where we
have all these sort of special items like you mentioned in the
(13:47):
poem as well. You have things that are knitted
and you have your keep carpin, just all those little bits and
pieces that are sort of part, almost part of your identity.
Anyway, you know, I saw a woman getting changed there one time
and I laughed. You know, I said the back of
your car looks like a swimming shop, but she had just so much
stuff. And the toe floats and, you
(14:09):
know, all sorts of and it's all kind of garishly luminous.
And yeah, I, and I think, I mean, I'm sure it's the same for
other activities that people getinto, but I also feel with the
ocean swimming because it's it'sa survival factor, you know,
because you're so cold by the time you get out and in that
Wellington wind, it's sort of like, I think you feel an extra
(14:30):
attachment to all those clothes and accoutrements that you're
putting on because it's like that's all that's standing
between you and hypothermia, so.That's true, and you get really
adept at changing fast after a bit of practice at at the
beginning it feels like it takesforever and then.
Although there's one thing I I just, I, I mean, I almost never
put on underwear after. I always just go straight into
(14:53):
my merino track pants and merinoT-shirt.
And the other day I was thinking, oh, just, and then I
get changed into work clothes later and I was thinking, oh,
oh, no, I can, I can eliminate the middleman.
I'll just get changed straight into my work clothes.
And then I realized, no, This iswhy I don't do it because I
can't do it up a bra with my cold.
Hands. It was really difficult.
It was just. Yeah, I was like, really?
(15:14):
Ugly. Yeah.
And anything that slows down theprocess is just what you need,
especially in winter. And so I mentioned before that
you've written to the spin off alittle bit about your swimming.
And I think you and I might bothbe children of the 80s and that,
you know, we started off swimming lessons basically doing
lots of kicking and spinning ourarms around in very cold,
(15:37):
unheated outdoor school pools. Is that where you got started
with your swimming? Yeah, and I, I don't know why I
never learned to swim as a child, but I mean, I did the
lessons and everything, but I think it's probably a
combination of I was very skinny, I had a lazy eye, you
know, so it was always going wonky.
(15:58):
I would get very cold, but and also probably just wasn't very
focused. So I think I got my, the lowest
you could get was the 15 meter certificate and you could swim
to the length of your school pool.
And so I got that and then that was it.
So my mother and sister were both always good swimmers and
could swim, you know, a good distance.
But I've always loved the water and I've always loved being in
(16:20):
the sea. But up until this time in the
last few years of learning to swim, I would never really go
out of my depth or, you know, I just and and always wasn't, you
know, not unconfident, but a cautious person in the water
because I knew I couldn't swim. Yeah, that sounds so much like
me because I was skinny with a lazy eye as well.
(16:45):
And I love the water too. But because I wasn't fast, I
didn't I didn't stick with it. And so I gave it up very young.
And yeah, only really started learning to swim properly a few
years ago. So when you got back into it,
did you have a couple of swimming lessons to to get
started or did you sort of teachyourself?
(17:06):
Yeah, I actually, I, I've been meaning to, you know, it's one
of those things I've been meaning to get around to for
like the last 30 years. And so when I finally did, I
had, I took four months off workto work on my memoir.
And it's the book before this one was a, a book about my life.
And to finish that, I took some time off work and I thought, oh,
(17:26):
well, I've got this time off work.
I'll do swimming lessons. So I did a, a term of private
swimming lessons. I was staying up and, and why
can I did them and calculate andthat was amazing.
I mean super humbling because itwas at a private pool in her
backyard. And the class before me was the
preschool class. So there'd be 6 little toddlers
(17:49):
just finishing up their their lesson.
And then I'd arrive 48 years of age for my for my lesson.
And I sort of thought, I kind ofimagined once I got into the
pole, I was like, Oh yeah, I'll have a lesson or something.
I'll probably find out I can swim and I'm actually pretty
good. But I wasn't, I was just like, I
couldn't even swim. Yeah, I would have, I struggled
(18:11):
to swim even the length of that 15 meter pole.
Like I just, I think like a lot of people who don't swim or
learn a swim as I just try and go away too fast and just, yeah,
just sort of flap around. So yeah, I think, and I can
still remember the feeling of doing, you know, because the
(18:31):
pole at Coastlands at Putterpronis a beautiful pole there.
And I can still remember doing my first length there and
thinking, Oh my God, am I ever going to make it to the end in
the sense of achievement when I did my first two lengths in a
row. And and then it got to the point
where, you know, just gradually over time, I was just swimming
further and further and further in the pole.
(18:54):
And I thought since that can do this.
So how did you transition or expand from the pool into the
sea? I'd heard I had a workmate,
friend of mine, Ellie, and she had been a keen swimmer.
And then during COVID she wasn'table to swim at the pole
anymore. And so she had started sea
(19:14):
swimming and that and then she'dreally got into that.
So I thought, OK, I'm going to give it a go.
You know, she was a, she was a devotee.
And I thought, I'll swim at Freiburg, I'll do some links in
the pole. I think this might have been her
recommendation. I thought I'll do some links in
the pole and then I'll go down and swim at the beach.
(19:34):
And my goal was this would have been December summer of 2021.
My goal is to swim to the raft by the end of the summer.
You know So I did my 10 links inthe pool and then cuz this was
still covered I can remember what a feff I had to get out of
the pool. Put my mask on course no ear
loops because I had a swimming cap on.
(19:54):
So somehow hold a mask over my face, have a COVID laminated
COVID pass in my hand. Had to then to get my towel go
out onto the beach to have my swim.
And of course. Swim out to the raft.
I did it the first time. It was suddenly like 50 yards or
something. But to me, it had always loomed
as this, like, huge distance. And yeah.
(20:16):
And so then I thought, oh, that wasn't too bad at all.
So once I started sea swimming, it pretty quickly became
regular. And then, yeah.
And then daily. Do you still swim in the pool
now or are you completely a sea swimmer?
Almost never. You know, funnily enough, the
only time I usually swim in the pool is if I'm staying up in
(20:36):
Waikiki because I don't really enjoy my beach swimming there as
much. The water is so shallow and you
can't really swim and it's sort of very just open and exposed.
So. And when I do swim in the pool,
I do enjoy it, but most of my exposure to the pool now is
sitting in the sauna at Friday watching other people swim after
(20:57):
I've had my sea swim. And do you mostly swim alone or
are you in a group? Combo.
So I I love swimming alone and Ilove swimming with my friends.
And yeah, I've got swimming friends who I joined a group
that was already already there and they sort of made-up by
Facebook Messenger. A lot of them are retired.
(21:17):
So, you know, for us people who are still working, you know, I
get a lot of FOMO because they'll be swimming during the
week and I can't go. But yeah.
And then sometimes they'll meet a friend in the morning and swim
at Friberg with a friend or, youknow, or friend at Island Bay.
And other times they'll swim on my own.
And I just really enjoyed both. And do you tend to be a morning
(21:38):
swimmer? Yeah, yeah.
Just sort of pre work. Yeah.
And I just think that it's because it's a habit now.
I feel like my day doesn't really feel like it started
properly if I hadn't had a swim.And then I sort of, I also, to
me, the water feels a lot colderwhen I swim late in the day.
(21:58):
I think it's probably just because my body is so used to
the cold in the at the early time that if I swim in the
afternoon I often get a bit of ashock of how cold it seems.
All right, Yeah. And do you, do you have a
favorite beach or is it sort of like the Mato Deki swims where
you like to mix it up and swim? Yeah, a little bit.
(22:21):
I always used to say my answer to that always used to be no.
I like every beach. You know, I've got lots of
beaches I like in different ways.
But actually I think Island Bay has now become my favorite
beach. I do swim there a lot and just
think over time. I just love the island.
I swam to the island for the first time.
I've only done it once. So I swam to island the first
(22:41):
for the first time the summer and it was amazing.
But yeah, just the just the Bay.I mean, it's close to home, the
waters so clear. The island is amazing.
The boats are cute. There's the amazing Reiter Angus
painting that I always think of when I'm there looking at the
boats. And yeah, it's just a magical
(23:02):
place. It's part of Tapaturanga Marine
Reserve, isn't it there? So while you were swimming, did
you see a lot of marine life? Not so much marine life, but
when out, when you swim out to the island, you swim over an
amazing seaweed forest As you get close to the island and the
water's so clear and it just, I've never seen so many
(23:23):
different types of seaweed. It really I felt like I was
watching and a nature documentary about seaweed.
It was like it was so crystal clear.
It was almost hard to believe that you were looking at it in
real life. Something about seeing it
through water rather than through air.
It almost is like super super clarity.
Oh that sounds really beautiful.I haven't done that yet.
(23:44):
I would like to do it. Did you go on a particularly
calm day with Was there any current to deal with?
There wasn't any current. Well, did get a little bit of a
light chop on the way back. It was one of those things, you
know, where I've been thinking of doing it for ages and
thinking, oh, I wouldn't want todo it unless they hit someone
with me on a kayak and you know,blah, blah, blah.
And then I was meeting friends down there for a swim and my
(24:06):
friend Jim said, oh, maybe you should swim to the island.
And I was like, maybe so I put my wet suit in the car because
normally I just swim in togs. But then I didn't have my wet
suit on. I just had when I had my toe
float. And I thought, oh, OK.
And there were a couple of womenthere who we didn't know.
But again, with that sense of community, we chatted to these
women and they were swimming outto the island that swam out to
(24:28):
it numerous times before. And so we thought, OK.
And that kind of gave me the theconfidence.
So three me, a couple of friendsand these two women who were
swim mentors went out together. Yeah, it was great.
It's really useful to swim with local people who have local
knowledge to have done a swim before and they can tell you
(24:51):
what to expect. Absolutely.
And it's not, I mean, it's not that far.
In some ways it's not that far, but it's when you don't know and
it's an unknown current. And it's basically like, I mean,
you're, you're on the obviously on the land side of Island Bay,
but there's always the haunting feeling that beyond Island Bay,
there's not a lot, not a lot to hang on to.
(25:13):
So. Yeah.
And with winter swimming, I knowthat you have a preference for
the Orca bright orange neoprene scale cap because I've got one
of those too, and that's quite agood way to deal with brain
freeze during these colder months.
Is there other gear that you like to wear?
During I don't wear anything. Now I've been through different
(25:34):
phases. Like I had little booties that I
wore for a while and I do have awet suit, but I only worn that
just a handful of times. I'm going on longer, longer
swims. I just generally I, I mean, I
think a lot of it's just chance and metabolism.
Like I think I'm quite cold, cold resistant because because I
(25:55):
swam with quite a few different people.
I think it's not necessarily a thing of age or body size or
gender or whatever. I think some people are just
more cold sensitive than others.And I don't think I'm
particularly cold sensitive. So I seem to do OK and but yeah,
I mean even before I had the neoprene hat, someone told me in
(26:16):
the Fryeburg changing room actually someone said oh just
wear 2 hats leaving. That makes a huge difference
just having two swim caps on in the winter, so.
We often get good advice from random people, don't we?
Different advice and it's it's generally all pretty youthful,
but you you have to hear it fromsomebody.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's yeah.
(26:38):
And, and I mean, I find that when I'm swimming, you know,
people often ask you for advice too.
So I think it's a real Yeah. It's just another sign of the
kind of community vibe. Yeah, you mentioned in your poem
having a an abrupt conversation with me, someone you'd never met
before. And it's often, isn't it?
Yeah. When you're sort of jumping up
(26:58):
and down trying to keep warm after a swim.
And. Yeah.
Yeah, and quite and quite a personal.
Yeah, and, and quite personal and I think as well, like I
really love it when you swim out.
You know, I don't usually go very far, but if I've swum out
to a first boy or something and it cracks me up that then you
get to 1st boy and they'll be like, oh, there'll be just a
couple of people bubbling aroundthere and it's like, oh, good
(27:19):
bully. It's kind of, it's like you're
waiting in the queue for your coffee or something, you know?
But yeah, it's, it's weird. It's a weird kind of
sociability. Yeah.
And so you're quite a, I'd say you're a pretty seasoned swimmer
now. You've been swimming in the open
water for a few years. Do you get people coming to you
(27:40):
for advice? I don't know, yeah, maybe people
people ask me things, but I think so they're probably not
coming to me for advice. They're probably just getting
it, getting it unsolicited. It's not.
And it's not so much advice. It's more just like life hacks,
you know, like I really, I've always been someone who's loved
(28:01):
life hacks of any kind and my family or my husband will tease
me about it. And so, you know, if I get onto
a new thing that I think is really, really good, like I got
onto these rub this rubber matting that you buy at Kmart.
And it's like, I think it's designed to be like deck tiles,
you know, so if you want to create a deck over your grass,
but it's really great for standing on, especially if
(28:23):
you're unfortunate enough to be changing in the changing rooms
at Freiburg, which are always disgustingly wet under foot and
like mangy and it just insulatesyou.
But it also is kind of high up enough off the ground that your
clothes, when they dangle onto it, don't get wet.
So yeah, I think I'm I'm quite likely to foist my ideas or
(28:44):
products on people of things I think are really good.
Well, it's a good life hack. Do you have any other swim hacks
that you you sort of live by that you'd recommend?
Well, I do like my, I like, I bought a lot of swimming stuff
that I've been never really used.
Like I bought one of those big capacious coats and I don't use
that. And I've got a poncho towel, you
(29:06):
know, but I only really use thatin the summer when I just go
home in it. But I think my favorite swimming
item is my towel that I refer toin that poem, my thin blue
towel, which is a Turkish cottontowel from Stoked who make those
big ponchos. And it's just so good in terms
of the size, the thinness of it,how it dries so quickly.
(29:26):
And yeah, that's and that's my favorite 1 to get changed.
And and then yeah, just the absence of underwear I believe
is another another report of factor secret of my success.
Yeah, I would concur with that one.
And yeah, the Turkish hood, hooded towel, I've got one of
those two. And yeah, I think of it as my
(29:46):
mobile changing room because youcan.
Yeah, it's not all beaches have changing rooms, so.
No. And I don't.
And I generally, yeah, I mean, at least it's right there like a
good one, like, you know, and there's lots of good changing
rooms in Wellington. But but if I have to cross the
road or something, I might as well just get changed on the
bench or by my car. Yeah, exactly.
(30:08):
I don't know if you've come across the pet bed warmers that
some swimmers have that you actually buy them from a pet
shop. I've got 1 and you heat them up
in the microwave and they stay warm for ages.
Oh amazing. Yeah, it's like a like a hot
water bottle, but they just staywarm for longer.
No, a friend, a friend of mine has just got a like it's like an
(30:28):
electric blanket foot warmery thing that when you go home you
put your feet into it and it's like it's like 1 big boot that
both feet go into I think. And it's like blanket.
Oh. That sounds like bliss.
Yeah, but no, I mean, I just have a big puffer coat and I
always have a hot cup of tea in the in a car and that and then I
(30:49):
just jump up and down a few times and, you know, my car's
got a heated steering wheel, which is amazing.
So yeah, that's the that's I usually find I can, I can warm
up reasonably well, but I actually also enjoy the thing of
being cold after my swimming. Just gradually, like you know,
sometimes I have a sauna or a shower or whatever afterwards,
(31:09):
but I also quite enjoy just slowly returning to room
temperature. Yeah, having that fresh, tingly
feeling of getting out, Yeah. Do you set swim goals for
yourself? Do you sort of have targets that
you meet? Or is it more you just like to
get in every day and enjoy the water?
Yeah, more just that I like that.
(31:31):
I just enjoy doing it. I mean, I do have, you know,
I've had goals that I've, that I've met in certain distances
that I wanted to like I've, I'veswam around, around the
lighthouse only a couple of times, but that was always a
goal before I'd done that. And then I went on a swimming
holiday to Ozzy, to the Whitsundays.
(31:52):
And that was the did some long swims and that, and that was
when I'd only just started out. So that was probably quite
demanding for where I was at then.
I was very slow and then I did the Hooker River swim this
summer with friends, went up anddid that.
That's really easy though. Yeah, it's only three
kilometers. It's 3 kilometers, but I mean,
it only takes 45 minutes. So it's three times faster than
(32:15):
any other swimming that you do. Yeah.
So I tend to have, but it's more, yeah, they're more goals
of things I want to experience rather than I'm not sort of
driven by the the distance or a number of days or it's just
really like a thing of just the doing.
It is the destination for me. Yeah, a lot of people who come
(32:37):
on this podcast talk about having encounters with marine
life, sometimes unexpected ones.You have you had any incredible
experiences that you'd want to share?
Yeah, I mean, I think the most incredible one was on the first
time we did the 12 days of Christmas.
And on Christmas Eve we were at Princess Bay.
(32:59):
This is two or three years ago now and we've been, we've been
out for quite a while already. And then we saw dolphins over
towards Hatton Bay and there's apot of dolphins in the water
with us. And they were, you know, they're
probably a couple of 100 metres away, but, you know, clearly,
clearly visible. And that was amazing.
And eventually, and they hung around.
Eventually we had to go in because we've been in the water
(33:19):
for like 45 minutes already. So that was pretty awesome.
I've never seen anything when I've been swimming on my own.
I've never seen anything sort ofclose up, which I, I think I'd
probably just freak out if I, ifI did say I'm not.
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure if it's something I
want to wish for or or not. When I went to Aussie to do the
(33:41):
long swim, then the three kilometer swim was the longest
one we did. And you're just swimming along
the side of a, of a beach. So you could stand up at any
time. But about one minute into the
swim, I swim over the biggest Stingray I've ever seen.
I was like, I was like a meter and a half wide or something.
(34:02):
So after that, I never put my feet on the ground again.
That was quite a good incentive to just keep keep swimming.
But yeah, saw heaps of amazing marine life on that trip.
It looks so beautiful there. I've seen, you know, videos and
photos of it. I haven't been there.
Was that with effortless swimming or Swim Trek one of
those? It was Swim Trek.
Yeah, I think it was from Trick here.
(34:23):
Anyway, it was one of those. And yeah, we were on a sailing,
we're on a sailing ship and, youknow, stayed for four nights.
And I think that it was a real education as well, because they
were, I mean, it was almost entirely.
Were they any men on the trip? I don't know.
But it was mainly women, mainly middle-aged women and real
(34:45):
serious swimmers, you know, I mean, I was definitely the least
capable swimmer on board ship, no doubt about it.
Was just really inspiring to hear what people get up to.
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, well, I'm definitely
inspired by hearing about other people's swim adventures.
I'm came to try new ones. Are there any books or as a
(35:09):
writer, are there any swim booksthat you particularly enjoy or
would recommend? I there's a really nice
compilation, I've forgotten whatthe what the name of it is now,
of essays and writing from people swimming at the Hampstead
Ladies Pond. So that was another little swim
destination when I was in the UKand a couple of years ago I went
(35:31):
and swam with my mother at the Hampstead Ladies Pond and
there's a really cool collectionof of reminiscences of swimming
there. Yeah.
What was it like something? Good.
I mean, it was more I think I enjoyed it more for the just the
experience and the actual being there.
I'm not a huge fan of swimming in freshwater, not that I've
done a lot of it, but in ponds, like it's a bit like, oh, it's
(35:55):
weedy and, and, and you know, the bottom is muddy so you sort
of don't want to touch the bottom or whatever.
So I, I don't think it really rates in terms of from the
swimming point of view, but froma cultural experience point of
view to be doing wild swimming in the heart of London.
And it's in a beautiful part, you know, Hampstead and it's a
(36:17):
beautiful part of the world. And it's sort of, yeah, the
storied history of the whole ponds.
It's pretty cool. That's pretty iconic, isn't it?
Yeah, and I swam at Canary Wharfas well, which is a bit of a
fair if you have to join the National Open Water Swimming
Society and get a wristband and this and that and the other to
swim there. But that's pretty amazing.
Then you're swimming among the skyscrapers and the Thames.
(36:39):
It's like a cut off section of the Thames.
The water's crystal clear and yeah, you're swimming, you know,
you breathe out one side and there's like, you know, 30 story
HSBC and they breathe out the other side.
There's some other tower blocks.So it's pretty cool.
That's incredible. Well, I didn't know about that.
And so they won't let you in if you don't have the the
(37:00):
wristband. Yeah, no, you have to be a
member and you have to book and,you know, yeah, it's, it's a bit
of a fact, but it's definitely worth it.
You know, a real, a real unusualtourist experience when in
London. Yeah, very unusual.
Well, that's the thing with being a swimmer, right?
You see things from a different perspective to most people.
(37:23):
Yeah, yeah, I was in Canada. I went to Canada last year and
swam in Lake Ontario, you know, from, from Toronto and swam in
the sea at Vancouver and yeah, it's just cold.
It totally changes how I, you know, that's the first thing I
look up now if I'm going somewhere.
It's like where you can swim. Yeah, it's like, and, and it's
(37:45):
because people are so social andit's such a community.
Wherever you go, there's always a, you know, Vancouver, a water
swimmers group or whatever that you can join and then ask people
for their advice. And I find that really good
people really helpful. And so like I met up with
someone in Toronto, I said, you know, has anyone got any big
swimming recommendations? And someone said, Oh yeah, I'm
swimming at so and so beach. You know, I'll be there at 9:00
(38:08):
on Saturday morning if you want to come for a swim and just
gives you that bit of confidence.
And what was the water like there it?
Was really nice, actually. It was like 20°.
It was beautiful. Yeah.
I mean, obviously it's like frozen solid within probably a
month after that. But I was there in autumn and,
you know, late summer, the water's still catching up, so
(38:29):
the water was still nice. Awesome.
And is there anywhere else in the world that you would like to
swim? I'd really like to do the swim
from Alcatraz to San Francisco and it is apparently quite
doable. I think it's 2.4 KS, strong
currents and everything, but it's obviously really popular.
They have a very well oiled machine of tourist boats and
(38:52):
stuff. So that's on my, that's on my
list. But yeah, you know, you'll find
me. You can easily find me sitting
up in bed browsing swim trips inCroatia or whatever.
Probably. They're all probably the
distances that they do are really long.
Yeah. They're sort of like, oh, we,
you know, this is a moderate trip.
We swim 6 KS a day. Oh my God.
(39:12):
You know, that's a lot of way. That's a lot of swimming, isn't
it? Yeah.
I mean, most of the time I'm just bobbing around, you know,
I'm not necessarily swimming anywhere, so.
Well, Kate, I've really enjoyed talking to you this evening.
Is there anything else you want to mention that I haven't
already asked you about? No, just I think I'm just
(39:32):
grateful for, you know, like people like yourself doing the
podcast and all those people outthere who are doing things for
the swimming community. I think it's cold.
And yeah, all those fellow, all those fellow swimmers out there
keeping an eye on each other. Yeah, we have.
We're really lucky with our swimcommunity in Wellington and I'm
(39:53):
looking forward to seeing how many swimmers come to this
year's Matter Leaky Swims. Yeah, I.
Think it might be more than lastyear?
It seems to. Be Well, let's say, Yeah, I was
interested in your podcast chat with Graham, you know, his, you
know, having been at Freiburg for a while assessing the number
of swimmers. And, you know, because I've only
got my own experience to judge by, which has been over the last
(40:17):
few years. And I'm always amazed at how
many people, you know, like kindof weekday at 7:30 at Friburg
and you'll be like, this is like40, yeah.
Yeah, it's incredible. And I think we were joking when
we were organizing the swim thatyou said the first rule of swim
club is that you talk about swimclub and it is a bit like that I
(40:40):
find. Like, I try not to over talk
about it to people who've heard me, you know, but I am pretty
evangelical about it. You know when you find something
that you love and feel so good, you just want to share it with
everybody? Yeah, and also other people find
it so crazy that then they remember it about you, and so
(41:01):
then they ask you about it, you know?
Yeah, that's. People say to me all the time,
did you slim today? And it's like, you know, I've
been swimming every day for the last four years, so.
You're always yes, you need to get a T-shirt made.
But yes, thanks for listening tothis episode of Swim Chats.
(41:22):
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