Embracing the Journey with Rachel Gorman - Symplicity Conversations Episode 2 - Symplicity Conversations

Episode Transcript
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Catherine Ripley (00:00):
Welcome to Simplicity Conversation, the
podcast where business, culture,and community come together to
inspire and empower. I'm yourhost, Kathryn Ripley. Each week,
we'll explore meaningfulconversations about how today's
business landscape is shaped byinnovation, relationships, and
the people behind the progress.From actionable insights and

(00:21):
stories from industry leaders totopics like customer experience,
fostering strong businessrelationships, and the role of
automation, we've got youcovered. Whether you're an
entrepreneur navigating growth,a leader focused on building
lasting connections, or someoneinterested in how culture and
community drive success,Simplicity Conversations is here

(00:41):
to guide you.
If you're ready to turnchallenges into opportunities
and make meaningful strides inyour business and community,
subscribe now and join theconversation. Get ready to
simplify complexity and make animpact with Simplicity
Conversations. Welcome toSimplicity Conversations, where
we explore the intersection ofbusiness, leadership, and

(01:04):
community. Today, I'm honored tobe joined by Rachel Gorman,
President and CEO of theMuskegon Lakeshore Chamber of
Commerce. Together, we'lldiscuss the journey, the unique
character of the MuskegonLakeshore, and how they're
fostering growth and connectionin the region.
But first we're gonna start withsimplicity insights. This is a
quote that I'm gonna do eachshow that really kind of
inspires. So today's quote isfrom John F. Kennedy, a rising

(01:27):
tide lifts all boats. And Ithink this is so appropriate for
this conversation because youcan't make change with 1 person.
You really need to have avillage to make a change. And so
I think we're gonna be exploringa lot of those changes that we
see in the Muskegon area and thelakeshore. And it's pretty
exciting what's happening. Besure to subscribe to Simplicity

(01:49):
Conversations to hear more fromleaders shaping the future of
business and community. SoRachel, thank you so much for
being a guest on our podcast.

Rachel Gorman (01:57):
Thank you so much for the invitation. I so
appreciate it with theopportunity.

Yeah. You know, we recently met each other
on a pretty significant day forSimplicity Communications. We
were at the Crane's PowerBreakfast. Yep. And you weren't
aware of it.
But before the announcement wasmade, we were sitting next to
each other at the table andexplained that there was gonna
be an announcement of our newiconic space at 60 Monroe Center

(02:21):
Northwest, and we're moved in,and we're so excited.

Congratulations again. It's huge. It's huge.

You know, I remember when I started the
company Mhmm. 18 years ago, andI used Select Bank as a bank.
And I would go into thisfacility and look around at
these 40 foot ceilings andthink, oh my God, what an
amazing place to work. And Ithink that these are some of the
happy accidents that happen inbusiness where you just never

(02:51):
know the opportunity. And mylease is up in my my old space.
It was up in January of 2025.And I was thinking, oh, just
probably renew while maybe, youknow, move to a little bit
bigger space in the samebuilding that I was in at
Boardwalk. And the buildingowner came and said, hey, let me
show you a couple of things. Andhe took me over and we were

(03:14):
driving over. And and I know alot of the addresses downtown
from, the technology work that Ido.
So where are we going? And hegoes, oh, it's, 60 Monroe. And
I'm like, isn't that the oldSelect Bank building? And he
goes, yeah. I said, wow.
And I just, again, assumed we'regonna go up to a Sure. Second
level, 3rd level Yeah. Whatever.And when we walked into suite

(03:34):
100 and he said, here, this isit. And I said, you're joking.
Right. And he said, no. And Iwas just blown away. I felt like
this moment of like, how didthis full circle thing happen?
How did it get to this point?
And, you know, so when wequickly said, yeah, this is it.
I thought my staff is eithergonna think I'm crazy Right. Or

(03:57):
they're gonna love it. And sothe next day I took my staff. I
took a little a couple of themover on a field trip.
I'm like, come on, guys, let'sgo on a field trip. They're
like, where are we going? And Iwas pretty cryptic. Yeah. Yeah.
Totally. And we walked in and Isaid, this is, you know, on the
outside of the building, youknow, what comes with our suite
is actually naming the buildingSimplicity Communications.

(04:20):
Incredible. I know. Oh my gosh.
I didn't realize that was abucket list item, but it is.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's one thatI'm glad we're checking off.
But, you know, I said that andthey looked at me stunned and
they're like, are you kidding?
I said, no, let's go look at thesuite. And we walked in and they
were just in fact, one of mystaff members said, Catherine,

(04:41):
I'm over the moon. I can't waitto be here. And so now that
we're in this space, it's justso, like, pinch me moment.

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

So you witnessed that, that moment
Yeah. When John Rooks fromParkland was up on stage and
announcing that SimplicityCommunications is taking, you
know, this iconic space.

Well, and it's so cool because we were there. I
was at that breakfast becauseJohn was a featured panelist on
the Greens Breakfast Panel andbecause of the work he's doing
in Muskegon Oh my god. But as itrelates to the lakeshore, which
is super relevant to theconversation we're gonna have
about the interconnectionbetween Muskegon and Grand
Rapids and West Michigan as awhole. So yeah. Well and

then you found out that I'm from Muskegon. I
was Born in Muskegon Hospital.Love. Lived there for 5 years on
Collins Avenue. And then then wemoved to or actually,
Ferriesburg.

Okay. I mean,

the Van Wagner exit area, Harvey. It used to be
called Harvey's Bowling Alley.It's not even that kind of a
building anymore. But when I wasgrowing up, I lived in
Fairiesburg. We had a springlike address.

Okay. And

I went to Grand Haven High. Right. Talk
about Tri Cities. Right? Right.
But, you know, that was kind ofa moment when we, I was telling
you that I have this businessthat's 18 years old and I come
from Muskegon and you're like,oh my gosh, how did that journey
happen? So I have this soft spotfor Muskegon.

Right.

Because, my aunt Jackie, her name is Joan,
but we always call her auntJackie. Joan Rapp is the clerk
of Eccleston Township.

Which is where I grew up, which is even more
crazy about this connectionbecause when I tell people I'm
from Muskegon, I live in thecity of Muskegon right now, but,
you know, so I say EastMuskegon, which there's a east
part of the city, but MuskegonCounty has 7 different local
municipalities. And most peoplehave no like, if you say
Egleston, which oh.

No idea.

So the fact then that you were like, oh my my
aunt is the township. I'm like,you know where I grew up, which
is so cool.

Isn't this a typical West Michigan? You know,
it's so typical when you meetsomebody. This happens a lot in
a group called Inforum, whereyou'll meet somebody new and all
of a sudden you start connectingthese dots. And it's like this
past friend that is like, oh mygosh, you know, so it was such
an amazing day. And then to haveall these connections come
together, it's been pretty cool.

Yeah.

So let's talk a little bit about your journey
in becoming president and CEO ofthe Muskegon Lakeshore Chamber
of Commerce. Sure. Because boy,there's a lot there. And really
what drew you to that role?Mhmm.
Thank you

for having me here and asking because I do, I
found hearing others and yours,especially to career journeys,
is just not only inspirational,but you learn so much. And
there's so many takeaways, so Iappreciate the opportunity, to
share my story. And if it canput someone on a path maybe they
weren't on before or inspirethem to think differently about

(07:31):
their career aspirations, again,I'm just super grateful for the
opportunity. So so, yeah, I grewup in Eagleson Township, so
that's the eastern part ofMuskegon County. And I I'm
starting there because it isrelevant to how I got Yeah.
To where I am now. But went toOgert High School, which is a
small public school. We were thelarge class at a 121 kids. So
right. Like, growing up in thisenvironment where everybody

(07:52):
knows everything, and I joke nowthat, you know, I'll never know
if it was, like, the angst of,right, being 18 and wanting to
get out into the world.
But where our community was, andI say our community, I mean,
Muskegon was in 2010 when Igraduated, was not the most
desirable location. And sohaving grown up in Muskegon, I
was really feeling theserepercussions of not only just

(08:13):
the significant recession ourcountry was going through, but a
real change in what our baseindustry in Muskegon County
looked like. So historicalmanufacturing and the changes
that were happening, but thenmore specifically that you
understand our community in theearly 2000 late nineties, early
2000, the destruction of themall that was in downtown
Muskegon. So for those thatdon't know, Western Avenue is

(08:34):
really the main course ofdowntown Muskegon right now.
When I was a little child, Ihave very fuzzy memories, that
whole area was actually acovered mall.
Yeah. And so I have some very,again, fuzzy memories of going
there for Christmas, Christmas,and, like, how does he know my
shirt is pink? And then that'skind of where those memories
stop. And then flash forward towhen my parents would take us

(08:57):
downtown or my sister was adancer going to the Ferro and
Thal, just remembering sandpiles around downtown. And I
remember thinking, like, whereare we gonna park?
Yeah. And so there was thistransformation that began that I
was not aware of then from thattime. And so when I graduated
high school in 2010, thebuilding I work in now was a
year old. And I remember seeinglike, oh, downtown looks

(09:19):
different, but still had thisyears of like, I gotta get out
of this town. There's nothinghappening here.
You know, just mentality. And soI left and, you know, I thought
I wanted to be a pharmacist, andI was terrible at chemistry and
all. So, like, that wasn't gonnawork out. But my, you know, my
work style then and stillrelevant now, like, I, you know,
plan the work and work the plan.So coming crashing down to,

(09:39):
like, that's not gonna be mycareer.
Like, what do I do? No problemsthough. Coming home, going to
Mesquite and Community Collegewhile I figure that out. And my
mom, you know, kind of casuallymentioned, like, you should go
to school to be an eventcoordinator. And I was like, I
don't think you go to school forthat.
She was like, no, really,Rachel. Think about, like, your
high school, like, what you wereinterested in. But, like, you
have this, you know, gift of,like, rallying people to, like,

(10:01):
get behind a cause. Like, thisis so much more of who you are
than, you know, otheropportunities. So at that point,
I knew I was gonna finish mydegree at Grand Valley.
That was really important. And,like, sometimes things just
happen where thank goodnessGrand Valley has an amazing
hospitality and tourismmanagement program. I'm an
alumni too. Oh my gosh. I didnot know this.

Yes. And I went to Muskegon Community
College. My first class atMuskegon Community College was
French.

Oh, my gosh.

Yep. Oh, we took a semester?

Yep. Yep. So teachers That's how funny. No.
This is this is so WestMichigan.
So so then you know. So thatprogram, at least at that time,
really was heavy on internshipexperience because of the nature
of the field, like making suregraduates are graduating with
this experience and, like,really bought into, like, yes,
this is exactly what I wanna do.So I had to do 3 internships.
And then I was in the middle ofmy second one working at Pines

(10:50):
and Courts. Oh, actually, I wasat Pines and Courts, but also
interning at Muskegon CommunityCollege.
And my boss at the college atthe time left a postcard on my
desk for it was what was thencalled the summer intern meet
and greet, hosted by theMuskegon Lake Shore Chamber of
Commerce. So it was a free eventfor summer interns to come to
the chamber to meet each other,but then to also get a trolley

(11:11):
ride around Muskegon. And Iremember thinking, I should go
to this. I really don't wanna goto this because I don't know
anybody. But also, like, I don'tneed a trolley ride around my
hometown, like, you know, butthere was that little voice.
I think it was one of thosemoments where something in your
gut was like, I gotta do this. Idon't know why I gotta do this.
So I went, and one was justbaffled by other younger interns

(11:36):
in there. I'm like, where areall of you? Which was the point
of this event to gather us andkind of get this like
confirmation like, oh, there areother college aged people here,
you know, looking for internshipopportunities.
And then we went on this trolleytour and there's a candid photo.
That's what it's so funny now.So we get on the trolley and the
person greeting us on the way totrolley, his name is Jonathan

(11:57):
Seifer. He was then our downtownmanager. He is now our city
manager.
So meeting him for the firsttime, but then having this
trolley tour of downtown andthen over to the Lake Shore to
Pere Marquette and just seeing ayoung professional like
Jonathan's like so excited oflike, here's a transformation
that's been happening inMesquite and here's some cool
things to do while you're here,while you're working the summer.

(12:17):
And I just remember beingbaffled like, is this where I
grew up? Because I it was likeseeing my community through
totally different eyes. So thatwas incredible. And then it just
so happened then that this eventended at a business after hours
that the chamber was hosting andit was the inaugural year of the
chamber's Future 15 awards.
So that's 15 up and coming youngprofessionals under 8 40 being

(12:40):
recognized for excelling in theworkplace, but also giving back
to their community. So then I'mat this event like there's a ton
of people here and there areyoung people being recognized
for being excited, you know,about working here and giving
back to the community. So allthese right little things were
aligned up like this is not theMuskegon, right, that I was
growing up and couldn't sprintfar away enough from. So at that

(13:03):
point too, I was interested inmy final internship at the
Muskegon Lake Shore Chamber ofCommerce. So I met, Cece Riley,
who was the Chamber'sCommunications Director at that
time and it was her internshipopportunity.
So I went on to interview hereand she hired me And then I was
her marketing and events intern,the fall of that year. So still
at Grand Valley at this point.And I was loving chamber work.

(13:23):
It was just so exciting. 1, tobe planning these business
focused events, but it's ourmembers, these business owners
that I got to meet.
And not just get to meet, butthey were so interested in like,
hey, what are you going toschool for? What are you
interested in? Like, here's mycontact information. Reach out
if I can ever be helpful. I'mjust totally blown away by that
culture.
And it wasn't abnormal. I mean,like so many of our members

(13:46):
still offer those kindnessestoday. And that's what I think
is so special about businessowners in West Michigan. So mid
that internship, Cindy Larson,who was the former Muskegon Lake
Shore Chamber of CommercePresident, just kind of asked
like, hey, you know, like wereally like you being here.
Would you be interested inworking at our front desk part
time?
And I'm like, yes, that soundsgreat. Until I kept working on

(14:07):
the front desk, which also thenprovided this kind of crash
course in Muskegon becausepeople call the chamber for
everything. Whether that's likewhat time is the farmer's market
open? Where's this business? Sothen it was kind of nice for me
to have this natural way of likegetting caught up on my
community of like, oh, I didn'tknow we had this or wait.
I forgot we have MichiganAdventures. I forgot we have
this amazing luge. Right? And,you know, sometimes just stars

(14:28):
align. So the event director atthe chamber at that time, who I
worked closely with, was readyto retire.
And so she talked to Cindy andwas like, hey, I'm ready to go.
And I think we have a wonderfulcandidate that could fill this
role. So by the end of thatsemester, yeah, Cindy just sat
down offering me opportunitiesto, you know, like, we've got
some time with you. Are youinterested in working here full
time? And I remember not sayingyes to the moment, going home to

(14:49):
talk to my parents about it.
I'm like, hey, they're offeringme this job. I don't know. And
my parents very, you know,polite. They were kinda like,
well, I don't see why youwouldn't say yes to a full time
job. Like it's your decision.
But looking back now, I think myhang up was I wanted to leave
Muskegon. I wanted to at leastgo to Grand Rapids or go to
Chicago, you know? So I saidyes, but all this kind of flux

(15:12):
time of still finishing up mydegree and then knowing full
time. I took advantage of themembers that had offered, right,
to give me their insights andtaking advantage of hearing how
did you get to where you are?And so many themes of these
stories were, I grew up inMuskegon, I left to go to a
different part of the country.
And I realized the life I waschasing and the life I wanted my

(15:35):
family to grow up in and where Iwanted to thrive in my next
stage of career was in Muskegon.There's things in West Michigan
that are available that aren'tin other parts of the world. And
so I'm so grateful still that somany of them just kind of said
like, Hey, you can go and chasethe stream. You're never gonna
have the opportunity though tohave the impact on your hometown
like you are right now if youstick around.

You know, that's it's just so cool to hear
your story because coming fromMuskegon myself, and I did go
off and was in different parts.My first daughter was born in
Virginia Beach, Virginia. My exhusband was in the Navy. And
then my other daughter was bornin Newport, Rhode Island. And
then I came back to Muskegonafter 4 years.

(16:17):
And so I've seen this view ofWest Michigan for sure. But
even, you know, throughout my 18years of my company, we do a lot
of traveling for conferencesand, you know, some of the
service providers. And Michigan,you know, when I tell people I'm
from Michigan, the first thing Iget, oh, it's cold. Like, even

(16:37):
in the summer, oh, it's cold upthere. And it's like, we have 4
seasons, and it's prettyamazing.
But, you know, this PureMichigan campaign is it's so
relevant because there's so manyfacets to Michigan, whether it's
the lakeshore, whether it'sGrand Rapids, which I call that
a mini Chicago, because we'rejust so We have so many diverse

(16:57):
restaurants, the art prize,along the lakeshore, we were
talking a little bit about, Igrew up in Grand Haven, the
Grand Haven Beach versus thediamond of a Muskegon Beach.
There's always parking. You'renever, when you go to Grand
Haven Beach, it's like quitefine parking.

Right.

But so much to offer, that massive restaurant
running

down there. Off the deck. It's amazing. Yeah.

It's like we went there and I'm like, oh my
gosh, just to navigate that withthe boardwalk. And we did this
little boat ride where we wentout and watched the sunset
cruise and come back. It was acouple of hours and it was
amazing. And, you know, there'sso much that is offered in
Muskegon. And I think that in myexperience, I was the 1st child

(17:44):
to go to college Okay.
In my family. And so I was kindof blazing a trail to, you know,
how do I make a career? And mysister and my brother have since
gone to Grand Valley as well andhave their own, careers. But I
really felt responsible forlike, what do I wanna do with my
life? And I think that there's alot of young people that are

(18:07):
lost because they don't knowwhat they wanna do.
And it's okay to start somethingand take a class. I mean, I
think the average collegestudent changes their major 3 or
4 times.

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

So to hear you say, oh, I thought I was gonna
do this. And then, oh my gosh,what am I gonna do? I didn't
start my business until I was39. Sure. So I really didn't
find my calling Mhmm.
Until I had several careers. Andeven when I went to Grand
Valley, I was a non traditionalstudent. So I had my 2
daughters. I would go to schoolduring the day. I'd waitress at

(18:39):
night and I did a major and 2minors in three and a half
years.
And I mean, one semester I had26 credit hours.

Oh my gosh.

I had a seminar of 2 credit hours. I had
an internship of 6, and then Ihad an 18 credit hour class
load. Because I was a singlemom. I was I needed to get to my
career in a paycheck. Mhmm.
And I think that I started incomputers. I didn't know what I
wanted to do, but I ended upinternational relations and
French and Japanese were thelanguages that I studied because

(19:08):
I knew I wanted to do Yeah.Something international. But I
think that a message to to any,certainly, you know, West
Michigan, you know, MuskegonLake Shore kids, just start.
Yeah.
Just you can change your world.

I totally agree.

You can change your path.

Mhmm.

And even if you're not sure, take some
classes, figure out what you'reinterested in, take some
assessments, and reallyunderstand what are my strengths
and weaknesses, because we allhave them. And then just let
your let the opportunities comebecause in your case, they did.
Right. They do. They will.
You know, the connections thatyou meet, you're gonna meet

(19:47):
somebody that can help you.Right. But you have to show up
and be prepared. And it's notgonna be easy. You know, my
journey has been a lot aboutcourage and grit.
Right. You know, just workingbehind. Which is so Michigan
too. Oh, my God. Isn't it?
Isn't it? Totally. And so I'dlove hearing our similar paths

(20:08):
of getting to where we feel whatour place is. And, you know,
hopefully, kids that arelistening that are in high
school or college that they justdive in and take chances. And
Yeah.
Because I think, you know, theregrets are just the risks you
don't take. Right?

Right. Well, and it is totally about the journey,
not the destination. And I thinkyou and I are like, we haven't
arrived. We are here for thejourney. To your point, I think
younger people, it's thefixation on like, how am I going
to get where?
But like not enough of us sayinglike, you should enjoy the ride.
Right. Because that's where themagic happens. And that's where,

(20:47):
to your point, doors are goingto open that weren't available
before. And if you're notlooking at those, you're going
to miss it.

So Rachel, it's so funny. You know, people
think, well, what's your degreein? Well, international
relations and Japanese andFrench. And they're like and
you're the phone guy? You soundtechnology.
Right? And but when you reallypeel it back, 18 years in
business, I'm, we're in our 19thyear right now. We have an

(21:14):
office here in Grand Rapids, andthen we have an office in Salt
Lake City, Utah. We have anoffice in in Ohio and in Dallas.
Okay?
So we want my 42 page growthplan of my company has about a
dozen locations around the USand 5 international locations.

Yeah.

So it's taken me a long time. You know, I
graduated in 1996 from GrandValley, and here I am all these
years later, that internationalpiece is potentially coming to
fruition.

Oh, probably more relevant than ever.

Exactly. So, I mean, I think the message is
follow your passion. I was verypassionate, but I didn't know. I
had this faith of, I wanna dointernational. I love the French
language.
I feel home when I'm in Paris.

Right. You know,

it's just a home feeling, but I didn't know
how I was gonna do that inbusiness. And when I first
graduated from Grand Valley, Idid it so fast and so quick, not
quick enough though, but Sure.Never. As quick as I could.
Right.
I said, what do I do now? Well,I went and got a job at Amway in
the international PR department,and I had an amazing, amazing

(22:26):
mentor there. Her name was JudyJones, and she was just
brilliant. She was the managerof the international PR
department. And I just learnedfrom her.
And what could I take? Whatlittle nuggets can I take? And
then I moved into a Germancompany called SUSPA
Incorporated, and I worked withthem for a few years. And so
each one of my stories that Ihad from those chapters, it all

(22:50):
kind of builds into the toolsthat I use today. And your point
of it's not, there's nodestination.
Even my company, it's not adestiny. It's like where I'm
taking it, it's just gonna beconstantly in motion. And when
we meet some of the goals thatwe have of our big growth plan,
there'll just be new goalsbeyond that. Right. So kids need

(23:12):
to just try, work hard, prepareyourself.
And if you're not sure, find amentor, find somebody that's
done it. Mhmm. And ask them forcoffee, ask them for lunch, and
just say, you know, let themtell you their story. And then
you're gonna come out of thatwith maybe some nuggets that you
could go, well, what if I triedthat?

Right. And you just never know where your paths
are gonna cross again. And Ilove I love talking to high
school students, collegestudents. But to your point,
it's like take advantage of theopportunities. And, you know,
when I was at Grand Valley, wehad speakers come in all the
time.
And it is the little thingslike, hey, if they gave you
their business cards, send alittle email and say thank you.

(23:54):
I'm shocked by the number thatdo, but it really differentiates
them from the sea of students Ispoke. And like those little
things are the building blocksthen to you know where down the
line, and it has happened. I'vestudents are now graduates reach
out. It's like, this is so coolthat we you stood out from that
crowd, like, but you did you didthat.
Not I didn't ask you to do that.So, yeah, just those little

(24:16):
reminders, I think, for youngerpeople or people in their
careers not like, don't forgetthose little touches Mhmm. Can
make the biggest difference. Andthen especially in West Michigan
For sure. It can make mostincredible difference sometime
of someone later on, in yourcareer that might have an
influence on positive change.

Yeah, absolutely. It's all about that.
You know, it really is. So whatexcites you most about working
with the Muskegon Lake Shorecommunity?

Right now so the people, we our members, they're
just the most incredible. Andevery day, even on tough days, I
come home and I'm like, I justlove my job. And that is such a
such a dream, right? And it is.It's still hard work.
There are still things that aretough. But knowing that we have
this incredible vision as anorganization of where we're
going and being very clear ofwhat our chamber does for our

(25:04):
community. We like to say in thechamber industry, like when
you've seen 1 chamber, you'veseen 1 chamber. So like, we are
not the Convention and VisitorsBureau. We have an amazing
Convention and Visitors Bureauin Muskegon, right?
But some smaller, especiallyMuskegon communities, their
chamber may do both. We are hereto serve the business community.
We are here to support economicdevelopment and make our
community a premier destinationalong the lakeshore. So that is,

(25:27):
I mean, sprints me out of bedevery day and just so excited to
work with these business ownersthat now and that's, you know,
kind of what we're talkingabout, have known me since I was
21. Right.
And along the way have reallyhelped support me and offer
mentorship in different ways.And, you know, so when I was at
the chamber, the first time Iwas there for about 4 years, and

(25:48):
you know, kind of reached thatpoint that you have to listen
yourself to know, like, I haveI'm really proud of the work
I've done, but I can feel likeit's time for something new. And
being at the chamber before andaround so many business owners
and taking advantage of theirmentorship, just again, this
desire of, like, feel like Ineed to invest in myself and,
you know, acquire some moreeducation. So I was really

(26:09):
motivated to get my MBA and butthat came from mentorship of
Mhmm. You know, if you wanna gohigher, like, yeah, there are
some additional things thatyou're gonna wanna learn.
But again, who the access toinformation and others you're
gonna meet. So I'm still veryappreciative of those that push
me like, also do it now beforeyour life gets busy. I was, you
know, single, not married and nokids. Right? And so I was like,

(26:31):
Yeah, what?
There's not a reason not to doit now. But even like throughout
that journey, I'm in my currentjob, but my little little joke,
my little side stand is, I serveas commissioner at large in the
city of Muskegon as well. Andthroughout the campaign process
of that, who showed up for me?So many of these owners, right,
that have like, I've seen you, Iknow that you love our community

(26:52):
and you're going to tackleanother opportunity to serve
your community. Like, of course,I'm gonna support you.
And that, like, looking back isjust Wow. So incredible. But it
wouldn't have happened, right,if I would have saw that
postcard of my desk and I'mlike, yeah,

I don't wanna go. That one little thing, that
fork in the road, and you never,you know, who would have guessed
it? But I think that what I'mreally hearing, and it's been
true in my experience in mycareer, is mentorship and
sponsorship.

Yes.

So when I get people that put their resume in
Yeah. In front of me and want ajob, You know, honestly, the
resume isn't what I'm focusingon. I'm focused on
extracurricular activities. Whatare you volunteering for?
Because that takes ambitionRight.
And drive Right. To volunteer.But also, do you have mentors?

(27:38):
Right. Do you are you mentoringanyone?
Like even young people canmentor people younger than them.
Absolutely. So a college studentmentoring them, a high school.
So there's no excuse for, well,I'm too young to mentor anyone.
Nope.
There's always the hands goingboth directions. Yeah. And so I
think that, you know, we seethat in our career and our
journey, how important utilizingthose opportunities and

(28:03):
resources are. And, you know,kids just have to ask. Right.
They have to have the courage tosay, can I talk to you? And I
think that that's that's beensignificant for both of our
careers.

I think so. And I think one thing you and I have
talked about too, especiallywomen in leadership, I'm super
grateful for those mentorships.Because women in particular that
have were able to articulate tome the seasons of life that you
might be in. And I'm trulytalking about when I was in my
20s, you know, knowing I wantedchildren sometime in my life,

(28:35):
but already being overwhelmed oflike, well, am I gonna have to
put my career aside? Mhmm.
And I'm so grateful for this. Iwas like, no, do not do that.
But also be realistic of there'sgoing to be times in your life
where it's just there's going tobe a crunch and you're going to
feel it. But so many incrediblewomen that were early in the
retirement and retirement likeI'm in a season of life now,
though, where I have morecapacity to give. And so know

(28:57):
that your current is notforever.
So now as a mom, I'm so gratefulthat I don't have I don't feel
like this burden of, like, can Ido it all? No. I'm like, I'm
doing exactly what I want to do.There's no guilt of pushing on
my career because I know now isthe time I want to sprint and
also balancing out, like, when Ican to be home with my 10 month

(29:18):
old son. Right?
Right. Right. And I'm so and Ithink if I didn't have those
mentors early in my twenties toset me up for that, I would be a
totally different person rightnow.

Yeah.

And I'm so grateful for those women that
spoke to that to me when Ineeded it. That but also that I
was open to hearing that andseeing that information.

Well, and I think technology has really
afforded us the ability to workremote, or if somebody's sick
and you gotta work from home,you can still be productive, but
Right. But, you know, be whereyou're supposed to be to. Right.
So how has your role evolved asyou've led the chamber through
some big changes Yes. In inMuskegon?
And I was telling you that Ilove the slogan, watch Muskegon

(29:59):
grow. Right? Watch Muskegon go.Watch us go. And that was so
creative.
Yes. So talk a little bit abouthow your role has evolved.

Well, so I've officially been in the role
since October 7th, which theselast two months have been
incredible. But also I feel likebecause I was given such an
incredible transition, we workedthe plan. It went exactly how we
had hoped. So we were verystrategic about it. We being the
chamber board of directorsbecause that's who I report to.
So they hired me as the chiefoperating officer in August of

(30:31):
last year with the intention ofwe'll have this year long
transition that I had withCindy. So to have a whole year
with her of learning thosethings that come up with like,
oh, this is how we handle thisand this is what you do. So it
was a very seamless handoff. AndI think our members have felt
that and have communicated to melike this was incredible. And
also again, just the membersthat we have that them

(30:52):
themselves are in theseleadership transitions to be
able to see like, I can makethis work.
I can be empowered to helpchoose my successor and make
sure my business that I'vepoured my life into is going to
be in good hands. So nurtured

and taken care of.

Absolutely. But taking the time right to find
someone that aligns with thatvision and knows it's going to
look different. But you know,your core values of your company
are gonna carry on. So supergrateful for that. But, yeah, so
managing what I, you know, I'vebeen asked like what do you
think, you know, are the biggestchallenges you see coming in?
And it's managing growth. It'smanaging the growth of our
community. It's managing theleadership growth for so many of

(31:28):
our companies. And I feel superhonored already to kind of be
like the team captain of likeour new leadership happening in
Mesquite. And it's not justyoung leadership.
I'm talking about leadershipacross the board, but being able
to step in and share like here'sthe legacy of your company as it
relates to our chamber. And I'mlooking forward to how you're
going to, you know, continuethat path. But, like, your own

(31:49):
unique mark you're gonna make onthat. Mhmm. But then balancing
where our community is going.
So like you said, the WatchMuskegon campaign, that campaign
is actually turning 10 years oldin May, and I can't believe it.
And having been there when itwas revealed and, you know, what
was important at that time, wehad 3 pillars of the campaign,
and it was the marketingpromotion. So getting Watch
Muskegon out there, we made thatlogo open source so people could

(32:11):
grab it and add their kind ofunique, you know, stint on it,
but also promoting that likeWatch Muskegon because things
are changing. There was aneducation portion of it. So
developing a Muskegon STARSprogram to get people empowered
and informed about all theseamazing great community assets
that for those of us that grewup in West Michigan, it's like
we knew, but like when you learnabout it in a classroom site,
it's like, oh my gosh.

(32:32):
This is an amazing place. Andthen beautification just
promoting how beautiful thelakeshore is and looking at
areas of opportunity in ourcommunity where municipalities
from all over Muskegon can cometo opportunity in our community
where municipalities from allover Muskegon can come together
and kinda really own their partof Muskegon and showing it off.
It's great. And so, yeah, we'reat this really cool point now
of, like, okay, watch is 10years old. It's a really great
marketing campaign.

(32:52):
And it's funny that we'retalking about Pure Michigan.
Dave Lorenz, our formerexecutive, who led Pure
Michigan. He lives in OrangeShores in Muskegon, which is
amazing.

Mhmm. Of course.

But Dave has told us, you know, like, when you
have something very special likeWatch Muskegon, like, don't let
it go. Right. Like, keep there'sa way to keep it alive. And so
just that committee again, we'relooking at there's still
opportunity in Muskegon. Sowe're really excited to talk
about what the immediate needsare in the next 10 years, 5
years.
So to kinda reveal, like, thisnext phase of watch. So stay

(33:22):
tuned. We have some news onthat. But that like, that's the
work that it's so great that Iget to help lead, but also it's
in the response of our chambermembers that are like, yes. This
is important to us.
Because for them, it is abouttalent and retraction in this
competitive market where somany, you know, are looking for
really great talent to fillthese open positions at their
company. Mhmm. What's been coolis that Muskegon is part of the

(33:45):
conversation because to yourpoint, the technology and the
remote working capabilities,these remote workers from all
over the world, they're like,well, since I can work anywhere
in the world, I would like tolive somewhere where it feels
like I'm on vacation every day.Yeah. And that's Muskegon, but
also has this small town charmof we all know each other and,
like and that, a humanconnection, right, is what I

(34:05):
think more than ever people aredesiring and having community,
and that's what Muskegon has agreat opportunity for so many.

Sounds so exciting. You know, as we were
growing up, there were somemanufacturers there. My mom
worked at a manufacturing rightdown by the, you know Yeah. The
harbor. That's not thereanymore.
But it just sounds so excitingof, you know, opportunities for
newer businesses to come in andAbsolutely. Small businesses,
you know, to come in and and beable to work remote there. Are

(34:31):
there any initiatives between,like, Muskegon and Grand Rapids
that are significant that you'reseeing as part of, you know,
pulling in from the the amazingstuff that's happening in Grand
Rapids that can help Muskegon?

Well, from I'll speak first from a chambers
perspective, especially in WestMichigan, because, you know,
it's a niche industry. So we allknow each other, but
particularly with Muskegon andGrand Rapids, I'm super
appreciative of the continuedpartnership we have between our
chambers because we have so manycompanies that are members of
both. Mhmm. So, like, in thechamber world, like, we're not

(35:04):
really competition because,like, I'm not pursuing members
right in Grand Rapids, but ifthey come to us, like, sure. But
what's unique is just both ofour chambers don't look at it
that way ever.
Mhmm. And then we see theseopportunities for collaboration
with our member companies thathave locations in both and are
rapidly expanding and lookingfor opportunities in both. But
for them to support theiremployees from standpoint of,

(35:24):
like, I wanna live here but workat this amazing company. Like,
they can have it all. And thenjust leveraging resources,
especially when it comes togovernment affairs and our
advocacy work, just moreopportunities of the Grand
Rapids Chamber offering thatsupport of we know what's
important to the lakeshore.
We know what's important fromMuskegon. So when our teams in
Lansing laboring for WestMichigan, we can speak directly,

(35:44):
especially to what's happeningin Muskegon. Getting to know our
members are like, hey, can youcall this manufacturer? Like, if
they can show up, that's supergreat. But beyond that too,
we're seeing as the industrybase in Muskegon has really
shifted from just coremanufacturing, this growing
tourism industry Mhmm.
How that relates to Grand Rapidsas well. Because the drive from

(36:05):
Muskegon to Grand Rapids is notdramatical. I don't know why we
act like sometimes have thismental block, right, of like,
it's so far. Far. It's no.
It's really not. And so I'm sograteful for the new faces and
families in Grand Rapids thatjust viewed us like, yeah, we're
gonna pop up some skiing. We'regonna go to the beach. We're
gonna we're gonna the deck.We're gonna go shopping, you
know?
And so that's been so great toto see that naturally happening.

(36:28):
But like having theseconversations like, oh wait,
what other opportunities arethere so we can make that
collaboration even stronger.Because it's all about, again,
just the people here that makeall of us go, knowing that
they're living and working inthe best place in Michigan, in
the country.

That's what I think

too. So

you work with a lot of business leaders of all
kinds, different sizes, youknow, companies. What leadership
traits do you find mostimportant in driving that change
in a community?

I think unique to Muskegon business leaders, it's
the call for excellence withintheir business. And then this
added magic, you know, not even10%, like 50%, they pour back
into their community. And it'struly because they're owners
like you that care about thepeople that help make their

(37:18):
business go. And I think theywere early to realize if my
company is going to besuccessful, that means I care
about the people I employ, whichmeans making sure they're living
in a community they're veryproud of. So going the extra
mile and then partnering withthe Chamber of, like, okay, how
can I support the Chamber to dothis work to, you know, redefine

(37:39):
Muskegon and do this communityleadership work?
Because we say, you know, it'salways like that. Well, someone
should do that. It's probably inour community. The chamber is
that someone, but we can't do itwithout our member support. So
the leadership qualities thatI'm super appreciative of
Muskegon County Businessesbusiness owners is just their
pride in community, theirwillingness to lead in their
efforts because sometimesthings, decisions that need to

(38:01):
be made are not always popularbecause change can feel hard.
Mhmm. But ultimately, you know,it's good for a community. And,
you know, one example, again, 10year celebration. You know, our
farmers market was relocated 10years ago from a was still
within the city of Muskegon, butnow it is on an anchor in
Western Avenue, and it's the 2ndlargest farmers market in the

(38:22):
state of Michigan. That was abig, brave decision, though,
that if you listen to the noise,it would have been, this is
gonna be the death of thefarmers market.
The farmers aren't gonna go.This is gonna ruin our and now,
I mean, that's like a what's aperfect day in Muskegon,
Saturday morning farmers marketday. But we couldn't have done
that without the really braveleadership from the business
community that sit alongside thechambers and know this is the

(38:45):
right thing to do. But also thenpartnering with our municipal
partners also support them oflike, you know, they are civic
servants that, you know, go withthe will of the people. So we're
not in it alone.
Even if you're like, I wannawork by myself. We're all in
this together. We need eachother and it's a lot easier to
work together when we canconnect on a human level and
know that maybe I'm not gonnaagree with you, but I know your

(39:07):
intentions are good. I knowwe're working towards a common
goal. We're not seeing eye eyeeye in this thing, but overall,
we can move forward.
And I think, to your point, thequalities of, like, leaders,
like, that willingness to acceptthat is super, super important.

So what inspires you to keep your work
and you motivated in in whatyou're doing to lead the
chamber?

I think what you know, what's so motivating is
the personal stories we hear ofpeople that are moving to
Muskegon because, you know,their access to Muskegon was
maybe going to the deck andseeing this beautiful waterfront
community on Lake Michigan andrealizing like, wow, this is a
cool place. And then comingback, right, and taking

(39:49):
advantage of our arts andculture scene. We have
incredible art museum downtownand just realizing, like, this
is a really special place. Butthat is, like, so motivating to
me of like, okay, if one person,person, you know, had that
experience, like how can weimpact more? And the ripples of
that effect, like what we talkedabout with into Grand Haven,
Spring Lake, Fairsburg, intoWest Coast, Holland.

(40:12):
I mean, we're all in ittogether. And in West Michigan
is just such an amazing place todo business, to live. So that's
what is so motivating to me of,like, I can see things are going
well now, but we're not thereyet. And I'm just so excited
about what the future lookslike. So that's what somewhat of
an image to me is like that Ihave an opportunity to help
support the work to get usthere.

Oh, very cool. If you could sit down with 1 or
2 leaders, past or present, whowould they be?

So for sure, Charles Hackley. Charles
Hackley, for those who don'tknow, was a lumberman and was, I
think, Muskegon's firstmillionaire, but he made his
wealth the lumbering era. Buttowards the end of his life, one
knew he couldn't take his wealthwith him and loved Muskegon and
thought, you know, just had thisincredible vision to invest in

(41:04):
our community for generations tobenefit from 100 of years later.
But one thing being in this rolethat I've it's so corny, but
like when we're in this work,like say it's like you can feel
the spirit of Charles Hackleybecause he had this vision to
know the lumbering era wascoming to an end in his
lifetime. And that he wouldn'tbe around to see what was

(41:26):
happening.
But knowing that investmentwould be critical to help the
future of Muskegon. So beingvery intentional about investing
in Muskegon Public Schools, inthe arts, in economic
development. And there's so muchthat has happened in Muskegon
because of some of the seedmoney he left that responsible
fiduciary responsibility hasmaintained that his legacy is

(41:48):
moving on. So I would die forthe opportunity to sit down with
him and just kind of like feellike to be able to update him
like, here's Muskegon today.Here's what has happened.
And just, I don't know, see howhe feels about I think would
just be so special.

And I think one of our connections there is
my uncle Buster, George Rapp.You know, my aunt Jackie's
husband. He was, the HackleyHume home there. He managed, you
know, those in terms of, youknow, keeping them. Those are
just amazing.

They're beautiful. They're beautiful.

Yeah, definitely. Anybody traveling to
Muskegon should take time to gothrough them.

We have Great Lakes cruise ships that dock in
Muskegon now. So those arebringing folks from especially
southern states like ArizonaRight. Where they're just
fascinated with the idea ofseeing a Great Lake. Mhmm. But
they're also great travelers, sothey do their homework before
they, you know, go to theirports.
And we've heard from somepassengers that are like, you
know, we're really sure aboutMuskegon. And then it ended up
being our favorite one becauseof these, like the Heclihun

(42:49):
Homes, the art museums, like thearts and culture. I always
chuckle too because, you know,when I run into them, you know,
it's like, hey, you know, yourchamber of president, right? How
can I help? Whatever.
But early days, some of thesepastors are like, It's so clean
here. I'm like, Oh, that's sonice.

That's crazy.

That was such a fun, fun one. Yeah.

Oh, very cool. You know, I want to wrap up with
what's a book or a podcast orresource that you want to share
with the audience that you thinkhas been impactful? And then
I'll share mine with you.

Yeah. I was thinking there's not anything in
particular, but what I want tosay and what I think is
important is just, you know,locally, statewide, nationally,
more than ever, finding abalance outlet, news outlet, and
just hearing both sides andusing my brain, right, to make
my own opinions and decisionsbased on that research. I think

(43:38):
that's because of technologytoo. Sometimes in a different
way, we're able to segment andget the content we want so much
that I think it's important asleaders to take a minute to look
beyond that and hear the wholepicture before to help us inform
us and making the best decisionmoving forward for our
companies, for our community. Sothat's really just absorbing as

(43:59):
much content I can, but alsofrom a balanced perspective.

Yeah, for sure. I think it's important for
continuing education, you know,whether it's in little snippets
of a 10 minute TED talk or ifit's a book that you're reading.
I know at our company, we readquite a bit of Patrick Lencioni,
the ideal team player beinghungry, humble, and smart. Mhmm.
When anybody starts at thecompany, I give them that book
and have them read because Iwant them to understand our core

(44:25):
values and what's driving usbecause we can be very different
individuals.
Right. But you gotta have somecore values that are shared so
that you can drive towards thosegoals. Yeah. Absolutely. So do
you have any advice that you'dgive to young professionals or
aspiring business leaders forthe Lakeshore region?

Yeah. I think especially for young
professionals, you know, whatwe've been saying is seek a
mentor, but also speak up. And,you know, for me, you know,
being at the chamber very youngin my career, but moving on to
the careers I had before comingback, I always stayed in touch
with Cindy Larson. She willalways be a mentor to me.
Knowing that she was going toretire someday, right?

(45:04):
There was something that justclicked and I remember just
tossing and turning when I andcoming to this realization that
like, if I never tell Cindy I'minterested in that job someday,
I can't be mad when someone elsegets it. I had no idea that it
would put me on the path that itdid, which included that in an
interview and dah dah dah. But Itell that to young people,

(45:26):
especially like, if you neverspeak up or ask for what you
want, it's not really fair thento be upset that you didn't get
it. So especially women inleadership, I think it's just
important to remember, like, wehave a voice that is equal at
every table and you should useit. But because be not using it,
it's just silly.
So always being clear about, youknow, what you're working

(45:49):
towards and why is I think asuper powerful leadership lesson
that has benefited me and Ithink is something everyone can
appreciate.

And don't be afraid to know. Oh gosh. If you
throw it if you have the courageto say I'm interested, and the
answer is no, number 1, a no isjust not yet. Yes. Not really
no.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think about that
all the time with personalthings, work things, but Mhmm.
It's always more comforting toknow the no because you ask and
not wonder What would havehappened?

What if. What if. Right? Those regrets. Right?
So, Rachel, thank you so muchfor being here. Where can
listeners learn a little bitmore about what's happening at
the Muskegon Lakeshore Chamberof Commerce?

Yeah. Or

and maybe even getting involved?

Yes. We would love to help anyone get
involved. So our website for thechamber is muskeganot org, and
then our social media handlesare at Muskegon Lakeshore
Chamber. Thanks for asking.Thank you so much for having me.

Oh, it's been a pleasure. I love hearing about
that. I love, you know, justhaving that personal connection
and kind of knowing and seeinghow far it's coming, you know,
we can make an impact. Well, I'mjust

excited to cheer for you. And just please let me
know how we can be helpful.

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for listening
to Simplicity Conversations. Besure to subscribe, leave a
review, and visit us at thesimple podcast.com to connect
and learn more about inspiringleaders like Rachel Gorman.
Thank you, and see you nexttime.

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Embracing the Journey with Rachel Gorman - Symplicity Conversations Episode 2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Embracing the Journey with Rachel Gorman - Symplicity Conversations Episode 2