March 3, 2023 • 33 mins
Hello again!!
In Episode 04 we are going to discuss what a System Of Transformation looks like and how you can identify the positive qualities of a system that is set itself up to be a positive influence of transformation.
- Quality 01 - The willingness to individuate in order to successfully integrate.
- Defining the processes of individuation and integration
- Healthy outcomes of individuation and integration
- Disruptions in the cycle of individuation and integration
Let's heal generational and transform global !!!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anu (00:00):
It will be beneficial to turn the record button on.
You know, just an important partof recording would be to make
sure that you turn your recordbutton on.
Anyways.
Welcome everyone to the Systemsof Transformation podcast.
Thank you for being here today.
I really do appreciate you guystaking time out and investing
(00:23):
into this podcast.
It's been a while.
I wasn't sure if I was evengonna get this episode out today
or on schedule, but it's been abeautiful day today and I
thought, why not?
I have taken the day off forpersonal reasons and.
I might as well sit and do thiswith you guys.
(00:46):
Systems of transformation is apodcast that is dedicated to the
dynamics of generational healingand global transformation
through a trauma-informed lensand a Christian perspective.
I am your host, Anu Hernandez,and I am ready to record episode
(01:07):
four today.
I hope you've all been doingwell.
We've had some adventurousweather changes in California
these last two weeks, and so youknow, I've kind of had to just
go with the flow or go with thepour.
I don't know.
Anyways, it's just me beingsilly, me being silly, but that
(01:30):
just means we're getting morecomfortable with each other.
Today we are going to start aseries within the series called,
The Qualities of a System ofTransformation.
And I have eight qualities thatI wanna share with you guys.
I am willing to take it asneeded and pace it so that we
(01:51):
really do get into some of thenitty gritty stuff of what a
System Of Transformationactually looks like and how can
you identify something as apositive quality of a system
that is set itself up to be aninfluence of transformation or a
positive influence oftransformation rather.
(02:14):
Quality number one, and what Ithink is the most crucial and
integral part of a system oftransformation is that it is
willing to allow itself toindividuate from its origins in
order to successfully integratewith its natural evolution.
You might be wondering what I amtalking about when I talk about
(02:36):
individuation and integration.
What are those things?
What are those processes?
I don't know.
Very simply put, individuatingis evolving and finding yourself
as an individual.
Asking questions like, who am Iapart from a system?
Who am I from my origins as anindividual?
(02:58):
What do I believe in?
What am I going to continue totake forward with me from my
origins?
And then what are some of thethings that I'm going to leave
behind or let go of as I moveforward in figuring out who I am
basically.
And integration is then saying,okay, I know who I am.
(03:21):
I feel secure and safe in my ownidentity.
So now I feel ready to buildconnection, to integrate and to
blend some of my individualitywith the larger system with
other people and see who I am asa healthy individual in the
(03:45):
larger system.
All right.
So one thing that we do need tounderstand is that throughout
human development, through ourentire life, we are going
through these cycles ofindividuation and integration.
And they are healthy and theycontribute very positively to
(04:05):
our overall development aspeople, as communities, and
collective bodies.
What I have come to understandis that healthy transformation
occurs in these cycles ofindividuation and integration.
It is very important to know whoyou are as a whole singular
(04:26):
being, so that you can then takeyourself into these greater
places and systems andcontribute in a positive way to
what exists out there.
I believe this goes back to myreference of true, healthy,
positive transformation comeswhen you're able to align and
(04:48):
love yourself and then take thatalignment and love into the
world.
Both parts are important.
It is very crucial for us tocarry both individual and
collective identities.
What I'm not encouraging is thatwe spend our entire lives by
ourselves without investing inrelationships, without
(05:14):
practicing and applying thethings that we've learned for
ourselves in the larger world.
They're both needed for healthyexistence in this world.
But it is important that we areflowing through these cycles.
In a healthy world, and pleasenotice that I am saying healthy
and not a perfect or idealworld.
(05:36):
In a healthy world we should beable to peacefully move through
the cycles of individuation andintegration, and honor, not only
our individual development, butcollective development.
Unfortunately, a lot of times Isee blockages and obstacles when
(05:56):
people enter certain cycles ofindividuation because their
origin or the larger system istoo afraid to let them figure
out who they are as individuals.
Because the fear is, if I letyou go on this journey, you may
never come back to me or you maybecome something that is
(06:18):
different from who I am and whatthis system is used to in order
to continue functioning the wayit has.
But I would beg to differ in myopinion, that if we allow
individuals to submit themselvesto these ongoing cycles of
individuation and integration,you are able to create healthy,
(06:40):
connected, and authenticsystems, where every component,
whether it's the individual orthe group is celebrated and
there's continuous success andhealth that we see in the
system.
The healthy evolution andtransformation of a system rests
very heavily on how we areallowing these processes to
(07:03):
occur.
And I'm not saying that we willdo this perfectly, but I think
it's also important to createthat awareness within ourselves
on both sides of even thatspectrum of How can I contribute
to the ongoing healthy evolutionof this particular system that I
find myself in?".
(07:24):
Problems arise when one part ofa system finds its identity in
the other and as a result isunable to allow these cycles of
individuation and integration tooccur freely.
There's then a block in thetransformative cycle, which
leads to dysfunctionalitytoxicity, and then the
employment of systems ofcompensation.
(07:47):
All our negative coping skills,whether they are expressive or
suppressive, play heavily intomaintaining what exists at that
point.
What happens is either theindividual has to step out of
the system and completely rejectthe system and become dissimilar
to the system in order todifferentiate and honor
(08:09):
themselves as a person or asingular unit.
And the fragmentation of thatprocess causes a lot of pain and
additional trauma to all theparties involved in that system.
A lot of times individuation isseen as rebellion or even
(08:30):
mislabeled as rebellion becausemaybe the system of origin sees
the evolution of self as aprocess that is working against
the system, even though overtime, if allowed to, it really
is working to the benefit of thegreater system.
(08:51):
Rebellion is not the rejectionof the other, it is the finding
of one's self.
Or I could say it this way.
Individuation is not therejection of the other, it is
the finding of one's self.
It is the asking of"who am I?"in order to contribute to the,
(09:12):
"who are we?".
We see cycles of individuationin childhood, in adolescence, in
adulthood.
We see those processes occur onan individual level.
We also see the cycles ofindividuation and integration
occur in systems.
So whether it is a family systemor a faith system or a business
(09:34):
system or cultural even, thereare times and seasons where
people will start to ask"whothey are", and that is healthy,
in order to understand theirplace in the"who are we?".
The challenge of labelingindividuation as rebellion is
(09:56):
that a lot of people will giveup that journey of asking those
hard questions and going on thatjourney of finding themselves
out of fear of disappointing orbeing rejected by the larger
system, from their origin, fromthe place that they belong or
(10:17):
want to belong to.
And that's very scary becausesafety and belonging is one of
the basic needs of humandevelopment and evolution.
You cannot walk these journeysunless you have a sense of
security, and a lot of timeswhat I see is that people end up
(10:40):
taking these journeys anyway tohonor themselves, at the cost of
losing crucial relationships andhaving to step out of systems
where they once were, becausethe price of losing yourself to
a larger cause is great comparedto finding yourself and then
(11:03):
contributing to the largercause.
Ultimately, we are meant to livelives of service to other people
and to other causes and to thegreater good of humanity.
But we cannot do it from thatplace of deficits.
We need to do it from that placeof overflow and this is what I
call the'blessing of both'.
We need both individuation andintegration to be a healthy,
(11:26):
transformative system.
We need to know who we are asindividuals and be secure in our
individual purposes in thisworld so that we can take on the
greater good of humanity.
The success of any generationlies in their ability to work
themselves out of being powerplayers in their respective
system and allow the nextgeneration to thrive without an
(11:51):
unhealthy dependency on them.
I would like to emphasize thethree qualities of a healthy
system that allows itself to gothrough the processes of
individuation and integration.
The three qualities are,authentic, connected and
healthy.
Where these cycles are givenpermission to exist freely, you
(12:16):
will see health, you will seeconnection, and you will see
authenticity on an individuallevel and a collective level.
And that's how you know this isa truly healthy, transformative
system that is going throughwhat it needs to go through and
evolving according to thedynamics of origin and
(12:37):
transformation.
I think every system will alwayshave some component of
compensation, and that's just abyproduct of living in the world
that we live in.
I think that it is human andnatural to even give those minor
Systems of Compensation placesto exist so that we work through
(13:01):
them and we figure out how tomaybe transform some of those
compensations intotransformation.
And it's all about growing.
It's all about learning thebetter option.
It's all about figuring out,maybe I lived this way even a
week ago, but today I wanna trysomething different and I wanna
(13:25):
see that I can evolve as a humanand I can, as I figure out who I
am, practice those things formyself and then model them for
other people and hopefullysomebody else will see that
change in me, will see thetransformation in me and want to
(13:47):
apply something for themselves.
When there is a blockage or adisruption in this cyclical
transformation of individuationand integration, we also see
certain negative outcomes, andtypically I see them as losses.
So there is a loss ofconnection, which leads to
(14:10):
sometimes a loss of relationshipand disconnection.
There is the presence of diseaseand a loss of health even the
absence of wellbeing becausethere are more compensatory
systems being employed thantransformative practices.
And then finally, there is aloss of authenticity.
(14:33):
People cannot be who they trulyare, and very sadly, a lot of
times, in order to continueexisting in those dysfunctional
systems, people begin to lie tothemselves.
And so you see this deception ofpreservation set in, right,
(14:53):
where people have to tellthemselves certain things, or
start believing in certainthings that aren't true in order
to survive having to live inthis type of a system.
So to summarize the negativeoutcomes, I have three.
They are disconnection, disease,and deception.
(15:14):
And if we're keeping it real,guys, if we look around us, if
we look within us, sometimes Ithink we're able to see these
parts of us that aredisconnected that are not doing
very well.
And that also maybe we are kindof gaslighting ourselves to
continue staying in certainplaces and spaces or
(15:35):
relationships, just to keep themgoing and we are paying the
price of that.
So let's talk examples.
Let me start with the individualsystem.
I am sure that you are awarethat we go through different
phases where we are asking thequestion of who am I?
(15:58):
I, myself, and I shared a littlebit about this in episode three,
have found myself evolving, or Ifind myself evolved or changed
just in the last three years ofmy life.
I came to a point where Icouldn't ignore that anymore.
I couldn't tell myself I was allin all the same person that I
(16:18):
was three years ago.
I think for the last year, I'vebeen fighting a lot of that
change in me because I wasafraid of how it would change
the dynamics of how I move andfunction in this world and
interact with other people.
I was fighting myself, and as aresult of fighting myself, I was
(16:40):
fighting other people, and it'sthat aggressive expression of my
discomfort that made me sit downand really take a look at what
was going on internally.
The dissonance and thediscomfort of that became so
great that I had to take a stepback and say,"You know what, you
(17:03):
need to realign with who you'vebecome today, and it's going to
be okay." I have really tried toinvest that time to filter
through a lot of these thingsand then consider how they
impact my world and then thelarger world at hand.
(17:26):
And I encourage you to do thesame because you are constantly
evolving as a person.
And you need that sense ofconnection with who you are just
as you, removing everybody andeverything else.
When you are in your room andyou are moving through your life
as an individual human, who areyou?
(17:50):
What do you believe in?
What do you not believe inanymore?
How do you want to carryforward, yourself?
So that you are true to who youare and you are authentic to
your journey.
We are moving through life,always gathering and interacting
with these different experiencesthat life brings our way.
(18:13):
And so it would be a disserviceto yourself to not question and
align with who you are becomingevery day.
Let's look at the family system.
So in the family system, I thinkthis is where it is super
crucial that we are allowingpeople to walk through their
(18:34):
individual processes ofindividuation and integration.
Yes, a family is a collectivebody, but it is also a gathering
of individuals and if each ofthose individuals are not fully
functioning as themselves, ifthey are not committed and
(18:55):
aligned with their greaterpurpose, there's going to be so
much friction anddysfunctionality in families.
The most successful parents workthemselves out of the business
of parenting.
We never want our kids to not bepart of the family, but my
success or our success ascaretakers and parents are
(19:18):
really, how can I raise thisnext generation so that at the
end of the day they areconfident and thriving
individuals who feel like theycan go into this larger world
and live and thrive and beeverything that they are
supposed to be without having anunhealthy dependency on me.
(19:40):
Many parents I see reallyfunction out of their own fears
and insecurities to stay in thebusiness of being those primal
caretakers in their children'slives and never truly let them
go.
So then not only did thechildren end up stuck in, in
some part of this cycle, but sodo the parents.
(20:04):
And then you have adysfunctional system that
eventually turns toxic andsomebody breaks away from the
other person and there's moredamage that is caused that then
we have to grieve and repair.
Are we allowing our children totruly leave and cleave to
(20:25):
themselves even before theyleave and cleave to another
human?
Are we secure in the fact thatour identity is not the next
generation, but we are called tobe caretakers and play that role
in such a way that it alignswith an already existing greater
purpose.
(20:46):
The danger becomes, like Imentioned earlier, when we start
making each other our identitiesand when we don't have a greater
purpose that is bigger and moregeneral, that can be taken and
applied in different areas.
Let me give you an example ofmyself.
I know my purpose in this worldis to love, heal, and transform.
(21:07):
So I can take that principle andapply it into every area of my
life, every role that Iparticipate or play in my daily
being, and should one have to bereleased and let go of, or
should a relationship end, itdoesn't feel like the end of the
(21:29):
world for me.
Even if it might in the momentover time, I kind of understand
that there's so many otherplaces where I can apply and be
true and genuine to my callingin this world, which is to love,
well, to bring healing and helpthis world transform in some
(21:49):
way.
If I do end up having, whetherit is my own children or
adopting children or whatever itis for me to contribute to the
next generation in terms ofbeing a part of a family system,
I know that that is just onecomponent of my purpose and it
is not my identity.
So I can let my children beauthentic and honest and
(22:14):
connected to who they are,because that does not mean that
they are disconnecting from mewith the purpose of never
reconnecting.
I know that if I hold on toanyone or anything, and I'm just
talking about kids here, butthis applies to every type of
relationship and dynamic.
If I hold onto somethingtightly, the only way that the
(22:38):
other thing or the other personcan then be true to themselves
is to sever their connectionwith me, which is because it is
so overwhelming and I am tryingto, in some way, have them tell
me who I am.
Which is a burden and aresponsibility that nobody needs
(22:58):
to carry unless you are acaretaker in some capacity than
it is your duty andresponsibility to impart
identity.
But listen carefully that I'msaying that it is your duty to
impart identity and not togather identity for yourself
(23:19):
from that other thing or thatperson that you are supposed to
raise and release into thegreater world.
And we can get into that inother episodes, but this is just
a general framework of how I seethat happening.
I also wanna talk about faithsystems because this is
something that I have beenpersonally impacted by and I had
(23:41):
to walk through a lot ofunderstanding of how even my
faith goes through these cyclesof individuation and
integration.
The evolution and transformationof my faith journey has also
been a very, very largecomponent of me walking in
authenticity of who I am in thisworld.
(24:03):
At some point in our faithjourney, God, your higher power,
whatever you believe in, isgoing to challenge you to step
outside the parameters of yourorigin in order to establish
your own personal intimacy andrelationship.
I can speak personally from myown life and then through my own
(24:24):
Christian faith.
When I read a lot of stories inthe Bible, I started to
recognize that when I read thestory of Moses, God took him out
into the wilderness for a seasonby himself with just God to grow
in the depth of theirrelationship, for Moses to
(24:45):
understand who he was and tounderstand his purpose and what
God was asking him to do withhis life.
And the intention was never thathe was going to be in that
wilderness all by himself forthe rest of his life.
But if he hadn't done that, hewould've been ill equipped to go
back into his purpose andcalling, into bringing freedom
(25:09):
to the captives.
Even Jesus before he waslaunched into his mission, his
ultimate mission, was taken outinto the desert to spend time by
himself with the Lord.
And it was through that periodof him wrestling with his faith
(25:31):
and his relationship with God,and knowing that his purpose and
his mission was coming tofulfillment, found himself so
that he could take himself backinto the very thing that he was
called to do.
I think we have mislabeledpeople taking this journey of
individuation as them leavingthe faith or leaving organized
(25:52):
religion, stepping out of thechurch and disconnecting from
their faith journeys.
I have come to realize thatallowing people to go on that
journey, if it is done in amature way and there's a healthy
way to do it cuz I did itmyself.
(26:13):
There came a point in my faithjourney where the Lord clearly
told me, You are mixing up myvoice with the voice of people
in this organized religioussystem, and I'm not okay with
that.
I need you to step out of thisfor a season so that we can
reestablish for you clearly whatmy voice sounds like, because
(26:35):
don't make the mistake ofthinking that the voice of
people is always my voice.
Even if they have the bestintentions, the most wonderful
educations and a lifetime ofexperience." I was very firmly
chided by God to consider thatwhat He might be telling me
(26:58):
might be different from what thecommunity at large was saying or
believing.
And the sad part is a lot ofthat stepping out and honoring
my relationship with God came atthe price of losing my
community.
Because they weren't ready orcouldn't even fathom the concept
of, in order to lean into herrelationship more with God,
(27:21):
maybe she does need to stepoutside the group to take some
time." There was a lot ofbacklash and a lot of pain as a
byproduct of thatmisunderstanding.
But I came to a point where Iknew that if I did not honor
where God wanted to take me inour relationship, I was going to
(27:42):
lose Him, and that was not anoption for me.
I cannot live without having arelationship with Him.
And so I did.
I made the very, very difficultchoice to step outside the
larger body and I want to saythat what my heart craved was
for someone to bless myindividuation process.
(28:04):
Knowing very well that my heartwas not to leave forever, but I
had to honor this part of myjourney in order to return as a
healthier, more transformedChristian.
I have even began to wonder,what if we blessed people on
(28:24):
these individual journeysinstead of severing relationship
with them?, or assuming thatthey were walking away and
started to look at it as theywere walking into the arms of
something better.
They were walking into God.
And that I am absolutely not theprime voice that they should be
(28:44):
listening to.
They need to be listening to thevoice of God, the voice of their
higher power, the voice of theirintuition, above my opinion of
what it should look like forthem.
And I do carry the weight ofsadness at times when I think
about how many people we mighthave pushed away from a deeper
(29:05):
relationship with God andcommunity because we refused to
bless their individual journeyswith the assurance of knowing
that they may come back somedayand all they're asking for is
some time and space to figurethemselves out.
I have made it my mission inlife that when I see somebody
(29:27):
asking those questions, becauseindividuation in itself, not an
easy process.
And when you feel like you haveto go against the grain,
especially against people thatmean so much to you, the
temptation to compromise is sohigh, but the long-term effects
that it is going to have are sodetrimental that I will do
(29:51):
whatever I need to do toencourage that person to honor
what they're sensing in terms oftaking that time for themselves
and individuating so that theycan come back as healthier,
better people.
For me, myself, when I havestepped out of systems, of
larger systems, I would say Ialways try to set up a smaller
(30:12):
circle of mentors and supportsystems so that I am not walking
in isolation.
And a lot of times I thinkthat's the fear too.
It's, it's the fear of, oh thisperson's isolating themselves,
or, oh, this person is justgoing to sink into some kind of
hellish darkness by themselves".
But maybe what they need at thattime is a smaller, more intimate
(30:35):
circle.
I know there was a period oftime in my life when I only had
three people that I allowed intothat process with me, a couple
of friends and a mentor whounderstood what was going on in
my life and where God was takingme and why I needed to do the
things that I needed to do.
I hope that, this episode bringssome enlightenment to some of
(30:59):
the questions and thoughts someof you are having.
I hope that you feel encouragedto honor your own process of
individuation, knowing that youdon't have to carry guilt and
shame for wanting to find outwho you are so that you can
serve the greater good.
I want to thank all of you fordownloading, listening and
(31:23):
sharing this, this podcast withother people.
I am seeing the growth and itmakes me so happy and so
thankful.
If you enjoy listening to theSystems of Transformation
podcast, I request that youleave a review or a rating
because that really helps mealso receive feedback on an
(31:47):
ongoing basis.
You guys have really encouragedme in our personal
conversations, and so please doput that message out there as
well on the different platformsto share your perspective and
your experience of the podcast.
Connect with me.
(32:08):
You know, I'm always up for aconversation or always up for a
text or an email.
The more we begin having thesedialogues, the more this is
going to become the norm of theworld that we live in.
It is in a way, a petition forall of us to live authentically
so that we can bringtransformation in our time on
(32:29):
this earth.
It has been my deepest pleasureto have spent this time with all
of you this week, and.
I hope you stay safe out therewith all the different changes
in weather, no matter where youare in this country or this
world.
Stay healthy.
Honor yourselves.
(32:49):
Honor those around you.
Walk this journey.
It is so worth it.
It is so worth it.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Have a wonderful two weeks anduntil we meet again remember to
heal generational and transformglobal.
Bye everyone.
It will be beneficial to turn the record button on.
You know, just an important partof recording would be to make
sure that you turn your recordbutton on.
Anyways.
Welcome everyone to the Systemsof Transformation podcast.
Thank you for being here today.
I really do appreciate you guystaking time out and investing
(00:23):
into this podcast.
It's been a while.
I wasn't sure if I was evengonna get this episode out today
or on schedule, but it's been abeautiful day today and I
thought, why not?
I have taken the day off forpersonal reasons and.
I might as well sit and do thiswith you guys.
(00:46):
Systems of transformation is apodcast that is dedicated to the
dynamics of generational healingand global transformation
through a trauma-informed lensand a Christian perspective.
I am your host, Anu Hernandez,and I am ready to record episode
(01:07):
four today.
I hope you've all been doingwell.
We've had some adventurousweather changes in California
these last two weeks, and so youknow, I've kind of had to just
go with the flow or go with thepour.
I don't know.
Anyways, it's just me beingsilly, me being silly, but that
(01:30):
just means we're getting morecomfortable with each other.
Today we are going to start aseries within the series called,
The Qualities of a System ofTransformation.
And I have eight qualities thatI wanna share with you guys.
I am willing to take it asneeded and pace it so that we
(01:51):
really do get into some of thenitty gritty stuff of what a
System Of Transformationactually looks like and how can
you identify something as apositive quality of a system
that is set itself up to be aninfluence of transformation or a
positive influence oftransformation rather.
(02:14):
Quality number one, and what Ithink is the most crucial and
integral part of a system oftransformation is that it is
willing to allow itself toindividuate from its origins in
order to successfully integratewith its natural evolution.
You might be wondering what I amtalking about when I talk about
(02:36):
individuation and integration.
What are those things?
What are those processes?
I don't know.
Very simply put, individuatingis evolving and finding yourself
as an individual.
Asking questions like, who am Iapart from a system?
Who am I from my origins as anindividual?
(02:58):
What do I believe in?
What am I going to continue totake forward with me from my
origins?
And then what are some of thethings that I'm going to leave
behind or let go of as I moveforward in figuring out who I am
basically.
And integration is then saying,okay, I know who I am.
(03:21):
I feel secure and safe in my ownidentity.
So now I feel ready to buildconnection, to integrate and to
blend some of my individualitywith the larger system with
other people and see who I am asa healthy individual in the
(03:45):
larger system.
All right.
So one thing that we do need tounderstand is that throughout
human development, through ourentire life, we are going
through these cycles ofindividuation and integration.
And they are healthy and theycontribute very positively to
(04:05):
our overall development aspeople, as communities, and
collective bodies.
What I have come to understandis that healthy transformation
occurs in these cycles ofindividuation and integration.
It is very important to know whoyou are as a whole singular
(04:26):
being, so that you can then takeyourself into these greater
places and systems andcontribute in a positive way to
what exists out there.
I believe this goes back to myreference of true, healthy,
positive transformation comeswhen you're able to align and
(04:48):
love yourself and then take thatalignment and love into the
world.
Both parts are important.
It is very crucial for us tocarry both individual and
collective identities.
What I'm not encouraging is thatwe spend our entire lives by
ourselves without investing inrelationships, without
(05:14):
practicing and applying thethings that we've learned for
ourselves in the larger world.
They're both needed for healthyexistence in this world.
But it is important that we areflowing through these cycles.
In a healthy world, and pleasenotice that I am saying healthy
and not a perfect or idealworld.
(05:36):
In a healthy world we should beable to peacefully move through
the cycles of individuation andintegration, and honor, not only
our individual development, butcollective development.
Unfortunately, a lot of times Isee blockages and obstacles when
(05:56):
people enter certain cycles ofindividuation because their
origin or the larger system istoo afraid to let them figure
out who they are as individuals.
Because the fear is, if I letyou go on this journey, you may
never come back to me or you maybecome something that is
(06:18):
different from who I am and whatthis system is used to in order
to continue functioning the wayit has.
But I would beg to differ in myopinion, that if we allow
individuals to submit themselvesto these ongoing cycles of
individuation and integration,you are able to create healthy,
(06:40):
connected, and authenticsystems, where every component,
whether it's the individual orthe group is celebrated and
there's continuous success andhealth that we see in the
system.
The healthy evolution andtransformation of a system rests
very heavily on how we areallowing these processes to
(07:03):
occur.
And I'm not saying that we willdo this perfectly, but I think
it's also important to createthat awareness within ourselves
on both sides of even thatspectrum of How can I contribute
to the ongoing healthy evolutionof this particular system that I
find myself in?".
(07:24):
Problems arise when one part ofa system finds its identity in
the other and as a result isunable to allow these cycles of
individuation and integration tooccur freely.
There's then a block in thetransformative cycle, which
leads to dysfunctionalitytoxicity, and then the
employment of systems ofcompensation.
(07:47):
All our negative coping skills,whether they are expressive or
suppressive, play heavily intomaintaining what exists at that
point.
What happens is either theindividual has to step out of
the system and completely rejectthe system and become dissimilar
to the system in order todifferentiate and honor
(08:09):
themselves as a person or asingular unit.
And the fragmentation of thatprocess causes a lot of pain and
additional trauma to all theparties involved in that system.
A lot of times individuation isseen as rebellion or even
(08:30):
mislabeled as rebellion becausemaybe the system of origin sees
the evolution of self as aprocess that is working against
the system, even though overtime, if allowed to, it really
is working to the benefit of thegreater system.
(08:51):
Rebellion is not the rejectionof the other, it is the finding
of one's self.
Or I could say it this way.
Individuation is not therejection of the other, it is
the finding of one's self.
It is the asking of"who am I?"in order to contribute to the,
(09:12):
"who are we?".
We see cycles of individuationin childhood, in adolescence, in
adulthood.
We see those processes occur onan individual level.
We also see the cycles ofindividuation and integration
occur in systems.
So whether it is a family systemor a faith system or a business
(09:34):
system or cultural even, thereare times and seasons where
people will start to ask"whothey are", and that is healthy,
in order to understand theirplace in the"who are we?".
The challenge of labelingindividuation as rebellion is
(09:56):
that a lot of people will giveup that journey of asking those
hard questions and going on thatjourney of finding themselves
out of fear of disappointing orbeing rejected by the larger
system, from their origin, fromthe place that they belong or
(10:17):
want to belong to.
And that's very scary becausesafety and belonging is one of
the basic needs of humandevelopment and evolution.
You cannot walk these journeysunless you have a sense of
security, and a lot of timeswhat I see is that people end up
(10:40):
taking these journeys anyway tohonor themselves, at the cost of
losing crucial relationships andhaving to step out of systems
where they once were, becausethe price of losing yourself to
a larger cause is great comparedto finding yourself and then
(11:03):
contributing to the largercause.
Ultimately, we are meant to livelives of service to other people
and to other causes and to thegreater good of humanity.
But we cannot do it from thatplace of deficits.
We need to do it from that placeof overflow and this is what I
call the'blessing of both'.
We need both individuation andintegration to be a healthy,
(11:26):
transformative system.
We need to know who we are asindividuals and be secure in our
individual purposes in thisworld so that we can take on the
greater good of humanity.
The success of any generationlies in their ability to work
themselves out of being powerplayers in their respective
system and allow the nextgeneration to thrive without an
(11:51):
unhealthy dependency on them.
I would like to emphasize thethree qualities of a healthy
system that allows itself to gothrough the processes of
individuation and integration.
The three qualities are,authentic, connected and
healthy.
Where these cycles are givenpermission to exist freely, you
(12:16):
will see health, you will seeconnection, and you will see
authenticity on an individuallevel and a collective level.
And that's how you know this isa truly healthy, transformative
system that is going throughwhat it needs to go through and
evolving according to thedynamics of origin and
(12:37):
transformation.
I think every system will alwayshave some component of
compensation, and that's just abyproduct of living in the world
that we live in.
I think that it is human andnatural to even give those minor
Systems of Compensation placesto exist so that we work through
(13:01):
them and we figure out how tomaybe transform some of those
compensations intotransformation.
And it's all about growing.
It's all about learning thebetter option.
It's all about figuring out,maybe I lived this way even a
week ago, but today I wanna trysomething different and I wanna
(13:25):
see that I can evolve as a humanand I can, as I figure out who I
am, practice those things formyself and then model them for
other people and hopefullysomebody else will see that
change in me, will see thetransformation in me and want to
(13:47):
apply something for themselves.
When there is a blockage or adisruption in this cyclical
transformation of individuationand integration, we also see
certain negative outcomes, andtypically I see them as losses.
So there is a loss ofconnection, which leads to
(14:10):
sometimes a loss of relationshipand disconnection.
There is the presence of diseaseand a loss of health even the
absence of wellbeing becausethere are more compensatory
systems being employed thantransformative practices.
And then finally, there is aloss of authenticity.
(14:33):
People cannot be who they trulyare, and very sadly, a lot of
times, in order to continueexisting in those dysfunctional
systems, people begin to lie tothemselves.
And so you see this deception ofpreservation set in, right,
(14:53):
where people have to tellthemselves certain things, or
start believing in certainthings that aren't true in order
to survive having to live inthis type of a system.
So to summarize the negativeoutcomes, I have three.
They are disconnection, disease,and deception.
(15:14):
And if we're keeping it real,guys, if we look around us, if
we look within us, sometimes Ithink we're able to see these
parts of us that aredisconnected that are not doing
very well.
And that also maybe we are kindof gaslighting ourselves to
continue staying in certainplaces and spaces or
(15:35):
relationships, just to keep themgoing and we are paying the
price of that.
So let's talk examples.
Let me start with the individualsystem.
I am sure that you are awarethat we go through different
phases where we are asking thequestion of who am I?
(15:58):
I, myself, and I shared a littlebit about this in episode three,
have found myself evolving, or Ifind myself evolved or changed
just in the last three years ofmy life.
I came to a point where Icouldn't ignore that anymore.
I couldn't tell myself I was allin all the same person that I
(16:18):
was three years ago.
I think for the last year, I'vebeen fighting a lot of that
change in me because I wasafraid of how it would change
the dynamics of how I move andfunction in this world and
interact with other people.
I was fighting myself, and as aresult of fighting myself, I was
(16:40):
fighting other people, and it'sthat aggressive expression of my
discomfort that made me sit downand really take a look at what
was going on internally.
The dissonance and thediscomfort of that became so
great that I had to take a stepback and say,"You know what, you
(17:03):
need to realign with who you'vebecome today, and it's going to
be okay." I have really tried toinvest that time to filter
through a lot of these thingsand then consider how they
impact my world and then thelarger world at hand.
(17:26):
And I encourage you to do thesame because you are constantly
evolving as a person.
And you need that sense ofconnection with who you are just
as you, removing everybody andeverything else.
When you are in your room andyou are moving through your life
as an individual human, who areyou?
(17:50):
What do you believe in?
What do you not believe inanymore?
How do you want to carryforward, yourself?
So that you are true to who youare and you are authentic to
your journey.
We are moving through life,always gathering and interacting
with these different experiencesthat life brings our way.
(18:13):
And so it would be a disserviceto yourself to not question and
align with who you are becomingevery day.
Let's look at the family system.
So in the family system, I thinkthis is where it is super
crucial that we are allowingpeople to walk through their
(18:34):
individual processes ofindividuation and integration.
Yes, a family is a collectivebody, but it is also a gathering
of individuals and if each ofthose individuals are not fully
functioning as themselves, ifthey are not committed and
(18:55):
aligned with their greaterpurpose, there's going to be so
much friction anddysfunctionality in families.
The most successful parents workthemselves out of the business
of parenting.
We never want our kids to not bepart of the family, but my
success or our success ascaretakers and parents are
(19:18):
really, how can I raise thisnext generation so that at the
end of the day they areconfident and thriving
individuals who feel like theycan go into this larger world
and live and thrive and beeverything that they are
supposed to be without having anunhealthy dependency on me.
(19:40):
Many parents I see reallyfunction out of their own fears
and insecurities to stay in thebusiness of being those primal
caretakers in their children'slives and never truly let them
go.
So then not only did thechildren end up stuck in, in
some part of this cycle, but sodo the parents.
(20:04):
And then you have adysfunctional system that
eventually turns toxic andsomebody breaks away from the
other person and there's moredamage that is caused that then
we have to grieve and repair.
Are we allowing our children totruly leave and cleave to
(20:25):
themselves even before theyleave and cleave to another
human?
Are we secure in the fact thatour identity is not the next
generation, but we are called tobe caretakers and play that role
in such a way that it alignswith an already existing greater
purpose.
(20:46):
The danger becomes, like Imentioned earlier, when we start
making each other our identitiesand when we don't have a greater
purpose that is bigger and moregeneral, that can be taken and
applied in different areas.
Let me give you an example ofmyself.
I know my purpose in this worldis to love, heal, and transform.
(21:07):
So I can take that principle andapply it into every area of my
life, every role that Iparticipate or play in my daily
being, and should one have to bereleased and let go of, or
should a relationship end, itdoesn't feel like the end of the
(21:29):
world for me.
Even if it might in the momentover time, I kind of understand
that there's so many otherplaces where I can apply and be
true and genuine to my callingin this world, which is to love,
well, to bring healing and helpthis world transform in some
(21:49):
way.
If I do end up having, whetherit is my own children or
adopting children or whatever itis for me to contribute to the
next generation in terms ofbeing a part of a family system,
I know that that is just onecomponent of my purpose and it
is not my identity.
So I can let my children beauthentic and honest and
(22:14):
connected to who they are,because that does not mean that
they are disconnecting from mewith the purpose of never
reconnecting.
I know that if I hold on toanyone or anything, and I'm just
talking about kids here, butthis applies to every type of
relationship and dynamic.
If I hold onto somethingtightly, the only way that the
(22:38):
other thing or the other personcan then be true to themselves
is to sever their connectionwith me, which is because it is
so overwhelming and I am tryingto, in some way, have them tell
me who I am.
Which is a burden and aresponsibility that nobody needs
(22:58):
to carry unless you are acaretaker in some capacity than
it is your duty andresponsibility to impart
identity.
But listen carefully that I'msaying that it is your duty to
impart identity and not togather identity for yourself
(23:19):
from that other thing or thatperson that you are supposed to
raise and release into thegreater world.
And we can get into that inother episodes, but this is just
a general framework of how I seethat happening.
I also wanna talk about faithsystems because this is
something that I have beenpersonally impacted by and I had
(23:41):
to walk through a lot ofunderstanding of how even my
faith goes through these cyclesof individuation and
integration.
The evolution and transformationof my faith journey has also
been a very, very largecomponent of me walking in
authenticity of who I am in thisworld.
(24:03):
At some point in our faithjourney, God, your higher power,
whatever you believe in, isgoing to challenge you to step
outside the parameters of yourorigin in order to establish
your own personal intimacy andrelationship.
I can speak personally from myown life and then through my own
(24:24):
Christian faith.
When I read a lot of stories inthe Bible, I started to
recognize that when I read thestory of Moses, God took him out
into the wilderness for a seasonby himself with just God to grow
in the depth of theirrelationship, for Moses to
(24:45):
understand who he was and tounderstand his purpose and what
God was asking him to do withhis life.
And the intention was never thathe was going to be in that
wilderness all by himself forthe rest of his life.
But if he hadn't done that, hewould've been ill equipped to go
back into his purpose andcalling, into bringing freedom
(25:09):
to the captives.
Even Jesus before he waslaunched into his mission, his
ultimate mission, was taken outinto the desert to spend time by
himself with the Lord.
And it was through that periodof him wrestling with his faith
(25:31):
and his relationship with God,and knowing that his purpose and
his mission was coming tofulfillment, found himself so
that he could take himself backinto the very thing that he was
called to do.
I think we have mislabeledpeople taking this journey of
individuation as them leavingthe faith or leaving organized
(25:52):
religion, stepping out of thechurch and disconnecting from
their faith journeys.
I have come to realize thatallowing people to go on that
journey, if it is done in amature way and there's a healthy
way to do it cuz I did itmyself.
(26:13):
There came a point in my faithjourney where the Lord clearly
told me, You are mixing up myvoice with the voice of people
in this organized religioussystem, and I'm not okay with
that.
I need you to step out of thisfor a season so that we can
reestablish for you clearly whatmy voice sounds like, because
(26:35):
don't make the mistake ofthinking that the voice of
people is always my voice.
Even if they have the bestintentions, the most wonderful
educations and a lifetime ofexperience." I was very firmly
chided by God to consider thatwhat He might be telling me
(26:58):
might be different from what thecommunity at large was saying or
believing.
And the sad part is a lot ofthat stepping out and honoring
my relationship with God came atthe price of losing my
community.
Because they weren't ready orcouldn't even fathom the concept
of, in order to lean into herrelationship more with God,
(27:21):
maybe she does need to stepoutside the group to take some
time." There was a lot ofbacklash and a lot of pain as a
byproduct of thatmisunderstanding.
But I came to a point where Iknew that if I did not honor
where God wanted to take me inour relationship, I was going to
(27:42):
lose Him, and that was not anoption for me.
I cannot live without having arelationship with Him.
And so I did.
I made the very, very difficultchoice to step outside the
larger body and I want to saythat what my heart craved was
for someone to bless myindividuation process.
(28:04):
Knowing very well that my heartwas not to leave forever, but I
had to honor this part of myjourney in order to return as a
healthier, more transformedChristian.
I have even began to wonder,what if we blessed people on
(28:24):
these individual journeysinstead of severing relationship
with them?, or assuming thatthey were walking away and
started to look at it as theywere walking into the arms of
something better.
They were walking into God.
And that I am absolutely not theprime voice that they should be
(28:44):
listening to.
They need to be listening to thevoice of God, the voice of their
higher power, the voice of theirintuition, above my opinion of
what it should look like forthem.
And I do carry the weight ofsadness at times when I think
about how many people we mighthave pushed away from a deeper
(29:05):
relationship with God andcommunity because we refused to
bless their individual journeyswith the assurance of knowing
that they may come back somedayand all they're asking for is
some time and space to figurethemselves out.
I have made it my mission inlife that when I see somebody
(29:27):
asking those questions, becauseindividuation in itself, not an
easy process.
And when you feel like you haveto go against the grain,
especially against people thatmean so much to you, the
temptation to compromise is sohigh, but the long-term effects
that it is going to have are sodetrimental that I will do
(29:51):
whatever I need to do toencourage that person to honor
what they're sensing in terms oftaking that time for themselves
and individuating so that theycan come back as healthier,
better people.
For me, myself, when I havestepped out of systems, of
larger systems, I would say Ialways try to set up a smaller
(30:12):
circle of mentors and supportsystems so that I am not walking
in isolation.
And a lot of times I thinkthat's the fear too.
It's, it's the fear of, oh thisperson's isolating themselves,
or, oh, this person is justgoing to sink into some kind of
hellish darkness by themselves".
But maybe what they need at thattime is a smaller, more intimate
(30:35):
circle.
I know there was a period oftime in my life when I only had
three people that I allowed intothat process with me, a couple
of friends and a mentor whounderstood what was going on in
my life and where God was takingme and why I needed to do the
things that I needed to do.
I hope that, this episode bringssome enlightenment to some of
(30:59):
the questions and thoughts someof you are having.
I hope that you feel encouragedto honor your own process of
individuation, knowing that youdon't have to carry guilt and
shame for wanting to find outwho you are so that you can
serve the greater good.
I want to thank all of you fordownloading, listening and
(31:23):
sharing this, this podcast withother people.
I am seeing the growth and itmakes me so happy and so
thankful.
If you enjoy listening to theSystems of Transformation
podcast, I request that youleave a review or a rating
because that really helps mealso receive feedback on an
(31:47):
ongoing basis.
You guys have really encouragedme in our personal
conversations, and so please doput that message out there as
well on the different platformsto share your perspective and
your experience of the podcast.
Connect with me.
(32:08):
You know, I'm always up for aconversation or always up for a
text or an email.
The more we begin having thesedialogues, the more this is
going to become the norm of theworld that we live in.
It is in a way, a petition forall of us to live authentically
so that we can bringtransformation in our time on
(32:29):
this earth.
It has been my deepest pleasureto have spent this time with all
of you this week, and.
I hope you stay safe out therewith all the different changes
in weather, no matter where youare in this country or this
world.
Stay healthy.
Honor yourselves.
(32:49):
Honor those around you.
Walk this journey.
It is so worth it.
It is so worth it.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Have a wonderful two weeks anduntil we meet again remember to
heal generational and transformglobal.
Bye everyone.
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