July 25, 2024 • 29 mins
You requested and I delivered: I'm answering your Philias questions on the podcast. With the help of interviewer and podcast industry extraordinaire Arielle Nissenblatt, learn about the most controversial episodes, fascinating facts that didn't make it into the show, how I got people to talk about this stuff, and whether my mom listens (she absolutely does).
Resources from Arielle:
- Earbuds Podcast Collective: https://earbuds.audio/
- Twitter: https://x.com/arithisandthat
- Threads: https://www.threads.net/@ariellethisandthat
See important links and a transcript here: https://www.tabooscience.show/048-qa/
Need music for a project? Use my Epidemic Sound referral link: https://share.epidemicsound.com/kbva2h
Connect with the show:
Leave me a voice memo: https://podline.fm/tabooscience
Newsletter: https://www.tabooscience.show/newsletter
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tabooscience
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tabooscience
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/tabooscience
Website: https://www.tabooscience.show/
Loved this episode? Leave a review and rating here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/taboo-science/id1533606473
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ashley (00:04):
Hi there, Taboo Science listeners.
This is a very special Q& A episodewhere I talk about my experience
making the Philias miniseries all aboutthe science of kinks and fetishes.
If you're brand new to the podcast,I'd recommend pressing stop on this
one and listening to another just toget a feel for what this show is about.
You can always come backto this one if you want to.
(00:25):
The first episode of Philias is theepisode entitled, How Many Kinks Exist?
And that's a great place to start.
For this episode, I recruitedpodcasting celebrity, Taboo Science
listener, and my co worker, ArielleNissenblatt, to interview me.
I hope you like what you hear.
I'll be back at the end to let youknow the future plans for the podcast.
(00:47):
Take it away, Arielle.
Arielle Nissenblatt (01:10):
My name's Arielle Nissenblatt.
I am a big time podcast listener.
I have a podcast recommendationnewsletter called Earbuds Podcast
Collective, and I've been workingin the podcast space since 2017.
Right now, I am Ashley'scoworker at Descript.
I am on the community team there.
So I live and breathe podcasts, both inmy professional and in my personal life.
(01:30):
And I am here today.
Because I am going to interviewAshley about Taboo Science.
I have been listening for a few years now.
I am especially a huge fan of theseries that just wrapped up that
I think we're going to be spendinga lot of time talking about today.
And I think everybodyshould be a fan of the show.
So I'm here to spread the word.
Ashley (01:48):
Yay.
I'm super excited to talk to you.
So let's get started.
Get into it.
Let's go.
Arielle Nissenblatt (01:54):
So we have a bunch of questions here today, some that I
have written, some that you have writtenthat you kind of want to ask yourself,
but you're going to have me do it.
Then we also have a bunch of questionsfrom the internet, both from YouTube
and from social media, from thepeople that have been following
Taboo Science for some time now.
So let's get started with somequestions that I have for you.
First, I think, this is frontof mind for me, is why did you
(02:18):
decide to do a miniseries on kink?
Ashley (02:21):
Yeah, I guess I wanted to do it because I have this really big database
of different topics that, um, areoptions for covering on the show, and I
started adding a lot of different kinks.
And I realized that I could just diveinto all of them in one miniseries.
There's also just sortof a strategy to it.
(02:42):
I had heard that, that miniseriesare a good way to like market your
show and to do something new and,um, get people like reinvested in it.
And so I thought this would bethe perfect way to, uh, to kind
of, yeah, to figure it out.
And what I didn't realize, uh, overdoing aminiseries, is that it's, it's really cool
(03:03):
to start seeing the patterns between therelated topics and you kind of become a
little bit of an expert in the thing thatyou're covering versus covering a bunch
of disparate topics and kind of havingto learn on the go every single time.
You start to be like, oh yeah, no,I remember this fact from this other
topic and so we can tie them together.
(03:24):
Um, so I, I really loved it.
It was, it was great.
I, I want to do it again.
Arielle Nissenblatt (03:28):
In the past, did you do any miniseries that made you want to do
this miniseries or is this your first one?
Ashley (03:34):
This is my first one.
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (03:36):
Cool.
Mini is an interesting word becauseyou did a lot of episodes on Kink.
Ashley (03:42):
I did, yeah.
I guess it ended up being
Arielle Nissenblatt (03:44):
How many
all together?
Ashley (03:45):
Nine?
Arielle Nissenblatt (03:46):
That's a lot.
Ashley (03:46):
Let me make sure.
Arielle Nissenblatt: That's a big miniseries. (03:47):
undefined
Ashley (03:48):
Yeah, yeah.
I think it, I meant for it to besmaller than this and then, um, I
ended up, kinks just kept coming up.
I just had to, there were more andmore that I wanted to do, so, yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (04:01):
Okay, so now let's get into the content
of the miniseries on kink.
Did you have any preconceptions atthe beginning of your exploration
into these taboo topics that wereshattered or that were reinforced?
Ashley (04:15):
So I think, like, I've always been very open minded about kink and, like,
I think it's very, you know, what peopleare into is, like, that's up to them.
It's not, you know, I'm not gonna yuckyour yum, but I definitely had a few
that I was like, well, that one's weird.
Or like, that one's, I mean, people are,I don't know, I don't know about that one.
(04:35):
Like, why would anybody be into that?
Or, um, and I definitely had somejust like judgy thoughts that
I just couldn't get rid of, um,about, about a few different ones.
And, um, I, I shattered them completely.
Like, I just, I mean, it completely,learning about all of these
kinks kind of made me realizethat, like, they're all the same.
(04:55):
It's, it's all the same.
It's all just stuff that we'rekind of, we find ways, I don't
want to say we're wired for it.
So it's like, I'm trying tofigure out a better way to say it.
Like, we all just, we grow up, weexperience the environment, we experience
things that turn us on, that kindof wire our brains in a new way, and
(05:17):
then we're into that thing, and thenthat thing is the thing that brings
us pleasure, and, and it's like, itdoesn't really matter what it is.
Some people have things that arereally common, some people have
things that are like way more niche,but they're, they're all kind of
just flavors of the same thing.
Uh, so I, I feel like now if I learnabout a new kink that I've never heard of
(05:37):
before, it, it, I process it a lot better.
I process it of, of just like, ohcool, that's, that's very cool that,
that someone could be into that.
I, I totally understand.
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (05:47):
Our brains work in mysterious ways.
Ashley (05:49):
They do.
They do.
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (05:51):
I first was exposed to the kinks beyond, you
know, the classic ones that you hearof, like, feet, foot fetishes, which
is, I think, your last episode.
It was your white whale, as you called it.
It was.
Um, and some of the other, like, Idon't want to call them mainstream,
they're not mainstream, butthey're kinks for a reason, right?
They're paraphilias for a reason.
(06:12):
ABDL, I heard about for the first timelistening to Dan Savage's podcast, Savage
Love, and a bunch of other ones like that.
I learned by listening to Dan Savagein like 2016, and I, that's what first
exposed me to this, so I feel likeme listening to Your miniseries, I
was sort of desensitized to the, ohmy god, people are into that, right?
(06:35):
So it's very interesting and I'mcurious how other people took it.
Did you get any people reachingout to say like, this is either
super inappropriate or appropriate?
Did anybody get mad?
Ashley (06:45):
So the only one that anyone ever got mad about was the zoophilia episode.
And a good number of peoplegot mad about that one.
Really?
What, on YouTube?
On YouTube, on, I got some Instagram DMs,uh, and I think the big thing was there's
a consent issue there with animals.
Right.
(07:05):
And which I, you know, I tried my best to,to, to, you know, cover that and kind of
show where you did, where they, you know,where this community is coming from there.
Um, and I think a lot of peoplethought that I didn't come out
strong enough to say that like,it's wrong, but like, that's not
really what the show is there for.
Arielle Nissenblatt (07:24):
You're not an activist in this.
Ashley (07:25):
Yeah.
Like I'm, I'm here to humanizegroups of people and I
humanized that group of people.
And that's, I mean, I, Iwas successful in that.
And I think there were still a lot ofpeople who thought that that's not.
what I should have done.
And yeah, you know what?
I, like, to be completely honest,like, that's, that's still on my mind.
I'm still constantly processing that,because this is, some of this stuff
(07:48):
is the most controversial topicsthat I've ever covered in my life.
Uh, so that's a new skillthat you have to learn.
that I feel like I am still learning, um,so I'm not saying that those people are
like 100 percent wrong, but I do feel likethat's not the purpose of my show, and if
you want to hear a show that goes afterzoophiles, you can find a ton of them.
(08:11):
There are a lot of people whoare, who are against that.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Villainize, yeah, yeah, yeah. (08:13):
undefined
Ashley (08:16):
I mean, otherwise, the feedback has been people, it's mostly people
emailing me saying like, this was sucha humanizing episode, like, I feel
like I, you know, either they're in thecommunity or they had heard about it,
and they just, they really appreciatedhow like nuanced and, um, sensitively
(08:37):
I, I covered a lot of the topics.
So yeah, I mean, most ofthe feedback has been good.
Arielle Nissenblatt (08:42):
So in past episodes, you know, all of the other taboo topics
that you've covered leading up to this.
What would you say, on average, howmany emails would you get per episode?
How many comments wouldyou get on YouTube?
And then, what I'm getting at here is, howmuch did it spike from this miniseries?
Ashley (09:00):
Yeah, the, the feedback has spiked a lot, uh, from this miniseries.
In the beginning, there still was,you know, I mean, it ramped up.
Um, and actually YouTube, the, I'vehad this whole process with YouTube
that maybe I'll, I'll mention too,but like, with YouTube, the The
feedback has just skyrocketed.
Yeah, generally, like, per episode,maybe I'll get two to five emails, and
(09:24):
then YouTube comments go from anywherefrom 10 to, boy, I think the biggest
one has like 50 on it, or maybe more.
I haven't actually lookedrecently, but, um, yeah.
Lots of, lots of feedback.
Lots of, um, lot, a lot more feedback thanI am used to as a podcaster, for sure.
Arielle Nissenblatt (09:41):
I think a lot of podcasters have trouble getting
any feedback at all, but if youdecide to cover a topic that you
know a lot of people are going tohave opinions about, that's one way.
That's one way, and you do it well.
That is one way of gettingpeople to slide into those DMs.
Totally.
Um, Ashley, do you have one?
(10:02):
Most important thing that you've learned.
Can you pinpoint a few lessonsor one particular lesson?
Ashley (10:07):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing I've learned is
that we all experience shame.
I think, I think this, this podcast hasreally given me an education in shame.
Um, and that shame is something thatwhen we experience it, our Knee jerk
reaction is to hide it and to coverit up and to not address it and doing
(10:32):
that causes all of the problems.
It's the, it makes, it just seepsinto every part of your life and
it, it poisons your relationshipsand it, and it just makes it so
that you can't live as a full human.
Um, and I think that what I've learnedis that if you are experiencing shame,
the best thing you can do is talkto someone about it that you trust,
(10:56):
either a friend, if you have someonethat you trust, or, or a therapist.
Um, and obviously with kink, it'slike you have to find the right
therapist because therapists canalso cause, cause harm with that too.
But yeah, I think it's like, Shame is sucha universal and um, and also the reaction
to shame is such a universal and I thinkit's, it's just I've realized like how
(11:17):
important it is to like, get that out ofyour system and like, because as soon as
you let it out into the world, it really,I think, from what I've heard from all
the people I've talked to is like, assoon as you get it out, you find out that
it's actually not as bad as you thoughtit was, and suddenly it dissipates.
Arielle Nissenblatt (11:33):
Yeah, I mean, that's part of why podcasts like this
and Reddit forums and other sorts ofgroups are so important for people to be
able to search for online so that theydon't feel alone, so that they don't
feel like something's wrong with them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
So thank you for creating.
Ashley, how did you get peopleto talk about such sensitive
(11:55):
topics on this podcast?
And, where I'm coming to from thatis, I know that you work really
hard to, you know, source the rightguests for the right episodes.
You, and you, and you Go after them andsometimes it takes a really long time.
So, you had a combination in thisseries of like professors and people
(12:15):
who've done research and then peoplewho are advocates for the community,
the kink community that they're in.
So, how did you find all of those guests?
Ashley (12:22):
Yeah, so I, from the very beginning, I took my kind of template
from my asexuality episode, which was thefirst time that I had had a researcher and
someone from the community in the episode.
And I felt like it made it so wellrounded and you got to hear the science,
but you also got to hear the emotionand like the personal experience of it.
(12:44):
And I knew that I wantedto do that with this.
Um, so the researchers were relativelyeasy as long as I could, you know,
convince them that I'm not a crackpot andI'm, I'm gonna make their, their research,
you know, make, make them look good.
And then, um, and the way that I did thatwas Every time I got another researcher
on board, I would just send that list tothe next person, be like, I have these
(13:08):
people who are going to talk to me.
And sometimes they'd be like, oh, yeah,no, I, I'm a big fan of that person.
I'll go on your show.
So that really worked.
And then for the people to, from thecommunity, that was something that I, I,
it took me a really long time to crackthat because nobody wants to talk about,
(13:28):
you their private life on a podcast.
Uh, and so I didn't really know.
I, at first I was like, maybe Reddit,like maybe I can find, so I, I sent
some things out to people on Redditand I never got any responses.
And, and I knew a few people whowere into some of these things.
I won't say who, but like one of the,one of the people that I interviewed
on, on the show actually has, islike a very longtime friend of mine.
(13:50):
And I was just like, Oh yeah, definitely.
I'm going to talk to them about this.
But finally the way that Icracked it was podcasters, like.
Podcasters, there are already peoplewho are podcasting about this.
Yeah, they're already,they're already out there.
Maybe their faces aren't, aren't outthere, but their voices are out there.
And they, they seem like theywould be happy to, to talk to me.
And that ended up being a really nicedouble edged sword because not only
(14:14):
were they willing to talk about it andable to talk about it, but also, you
know, you know, you know, of all people,
Arielle Nissenblatt (14:20):
Are you talking cross promos?
Ashley (14:21):
Yeah, like getting other podcasters on your show and then they
talk about it on their podcast andthen other people come on to listen.
So.
That was a, that was a great, likea winning strategy that I landed on
that I was, I was super happy with.
Arielle Nissenblatt (14:32):
Audience growth.
Ashley (14:32):
Yeah,
Arielle Nissenblatt (14:33):
yeah.
That's great.
Any other controversiesthat stand out to you?
Ashley (14:38):
I had a couple comments about the furry episode.
Hmm.
Um, just in like, likeprivately from people.
Hmm.
Uh, who maybe were in the community oradjacent to the community who actually
sort of pushed back on me saying that it'snot a fetish because they're and and I've
(14:59):
I've tried to kind of wrestle with thistoo because it is very clear that there is
a furry fetish and it is very clear thatlike furry pornography is a huge part of
that community and The media has been soawful to furries that there's this, like,
knee jerk, like, pushback on, like, No,no, no, this is totally not a sex thing.
(15:19):
There's no sex involved.
Uh, this is all aboutjust, just fun animals.
And it's like, um, some peoplekind of were suggesting that I was,
I didn't actually delve into thesex part as much as I could have.
Um, or, or even not, not delve in, butjust, like, I think I was protesting
too much that it wasn't a sex thing.
Whereas, like, the sex thingactually is a bigger part of the
(15:41):
community that I portrayed and
yeah, um, and I think what that was justlike, I really wanted to do right by my
guests and my guests were saying that
Arielle Nissenblatt (15:52):
there's a line.
Ashley (15:53):
Yeah, it's hard.
It's hard,
Arielle Nissenblatt (15:55):
right?
There's a line.
You're also not employed by a journalisticoutlet that makes it so that you
must equally represent both sides.
This is up to you.
Ultimately, it's tricky.
You can not.
You can put disclaimers in there.
You can say, here's my methodology.
Here's my ideology.
Here's why I'm thinking this, butthat would be a boring episode.
So you put out the episode that isentertaining and is educational and
(16:19):
is respectful to the people whose timeyou are asking for as your guests.
And then also your listeners.
I think that providing them with aproduct that teaches them is great.
And then obviously you are.
admitting to some of the potentialshortcomings by having this episode.
Ashley (16:35):
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (16:37):
So let's now move to some questions from listeners.
Are you ready?
Yeah.
Okay, this question comes from Paul,who is your follower on Twitter.
Paul asks, what was the most surprisingthing that you learned, and what was the
most fascinating thing that you learned?
Ashley (16:55):
Hmm, I, I learned a ton of fascinating things.
I think the thing that comes to mindmost right now, that I actually, it
didn't make it into an episode, um, butI think I might make a YouTube short
on it or something, is that in the ABDLcommunity, the diapers they buy, are
made by the same companies that make likemedical supply diapers and they, these
(17:21):
companies basically, they saw that therewas this community that was buying their
diapers not for a medical need and theywere like, oh, Well, what do they want?
Like what we should talk to them.
And they did some user researchand they're like, Oh, they
want cute pictures on them.
They want cute colors.
(17:41):
Like, okay, we'll do that.
And they made like a bunch of linesof different cute ABDL diapers,
which I feel like if you look at somany other industries where as soon
as anything, like, for example, I'mlistening to a wonderful series on the
history of the magic wand vibrator, uh,and, and what they did, the Hitachi.
(18:03):
Hitachi makes all sorts of like kitchenmachines and stuff like that, and
they had this personal massager thatended up becoming this, this like
legendary thing in the sex world.
And they were like, Oh, we're justgoing to stop making it because we
feel uncomfortable about that, eventhough it was selling incredibly well.
And someone actually, a differentcompany had to, had to come in
(18:24):
and be like, do not do that.
Like, sell it to us.
We'll, we'll continue to make it.
Like that.
Like capitalism didn'tsave the day there, right?
It was just sort of like,they're like, no, no, no, we're,
this is associated with sex.
We don't want to be associated with sex,which is what so many companies would do.
And I think it's so cool that this diapercompany was like, yeah, okay, cool.
(18:44):
We'll make some stuff for you.
Great.
More diapers for everybody.
Arielle Nissenblatt (18:48):
Wow.
Ashley (18:49):
Yeah,
Arielle Nissenblatt (18:49):
that's great.
Ashley (18:50):
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (18:50):
So that's surprising and fascinating.
Did you want to add something else?
Ashley (18:55):
Um, another one that maybe didn't make it in was that in the just
general Kinks 101, um, episode, Aellatold me that violent porn is actually
most popular among women, not men.
And so a lot of people say, like,we need to, we need to stop violent
porn because it hurts women.
(19:17):
And she pointed out that, like, puttinga stop to violent porn actually would
hurt women more because, like, they'rethe, they're the main consumers of this
stuff, which was so surprising to me, too.
Arielle Nissenblatt (19:26):
There you go.
Ashley (19:26):
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (19:27):
Wow.
So, not only do you teach, you also learn.
Thank you to Paul for that question.
Let's go to this question fromYouTube, from Jasmine Stealth 1.
They write, After looking at this,I looked at your web, and I wonder,
with a platform like this, and beingintroduced to all these things, has it
affected your personal intimate spaces?
Or are you just fascinated?
(19:47):
And, of course, this isa very personal question.
You can choose how much you wouldlike to tell us, and how much you
would like to keep to yourself.
Ashley (19:53):
Totally!
Uh, so yeah, basically the questionis, like, Did you introduce any of this
into your own sex life, which I'm not.
No, I didn't.
I'll just say that.
I didn't like my sex life is the same.
Um, but what I was actually expectingwas for me, not for, for my libido to
just tank because I was talking aboutall these things and like, in like this
(20:15):
very clinical way and, um, and veryacademic way that didn't happen either.
Really, nothing, nothing is different.
There's for me, nothing is different.
You just learned.
I just learned, I learned and I felt,uh, maybe I felt a little bit more
comfortable about my own sexuality,just like, because being able to talk
about this stuff just is, you know,it's a way to break taboos, right?
(20:37):
So, um, it, yeah, that made me,I mean, more comfortable about
my own sexuality in my own way.
Like, personal life.
It still sucks to talk about mypodcast with, like, professional
colleagues, but, um, but yeah, nota lot, not a lot changed with that.
Arielle Nissenblatt (20:54):
Does your family know that you made this miniseries?
Ashley (20:58):
My mom listens to every episode.
Which is a little, a little mortifying,um, but I do like to say she's the
one who taught me what circumcisionwas at the dinner table when we were
eating, uh, what were we eating?
Uh, okra.
It was okra in, in gumbo.
(21:20):
And she like, peeled off the outside ofthe okra to show what that, cause I, I
was like, I don't know, what is this?
No, no, she's a lawyer, but yeah, I wasjust, yeah, I was like, I was like a
tween and I was like, what circumcision?
She's like, well, uh, and she showedme, so she's not, she doesn't, she
doesn't blush about this stuff.
So I guess that's where I get it.
Arielle Nissenblatt (21:43):
Going back to Jasmine's question about whether
you introduced this into your life.
I think another question we canpull from that is how did learning
about ABDL make you feel differentlyabout motherhood because of the
connection to diapers, of course?
Ashley (21:58):
Right.
That was another one that I thought I wasgoing to feel really uncomfortable about.
I, I really, when I got into it,I was like, this could, this could
bring up some weird feelings for me.
Um, and it didn't, it didn't becauseI'm just, I was so happy about that
because the thing is when I learnedmore about it, it's just a game.
(22:19):
It's just, it's, it's so farremoved from actual babies
and actual, like any of that.
It's like, Um, I mean, I love, you know,to bring in Dan Savage, you know, kink
is cops and robbers with your pants down.
Like that's, it's a, it'sa game, it's a role play.
Uh, it doesn't really have a lotof connection to real parenthood,
(22:42):
real babies, real diapers.
Um, so it actually, I was fine.
I was, a lot of this was like that.
A lot of this, I waslike, oh, I don't know.
And then it was great.
It was great.
And then you were fine.
Yeah.
You're so resilient.
Actually, I will say the one that I didhave to do a lot of thinking about, coming
back to this topic again, bazoophilia.
I had to, of course, I think it took me,because they, they pitched me on that.
(23:06):
And I, at first I was like, no.
And then.
I thought about it for a few weeks, andthen I decided to do it was basically like
I had to just educate myself for a littlewhile and kind of come around to it, which
I think was one of the reasons that someof these comments were frustrating because
I think I may have started out wherethey were, and then I thought about it.
(23:27):
Like, I really put in some hard work.
You did the thinking, yeah.
Yeah, and so the, I just sawthat these people hadn't thought
about it, and it was frustrating.
But also, like, yeah, they just haven'thad as much time with it as I have.
Arielle Nissenblatt (23:40):
Yeah, they need to be exposed to it.
And then, maybe over time,their minds open a bit.
Ashley (23:44):
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (23:45):
But they would probably say, I don't want
to open my mind to this, right?
There's a lot of layers here.
Ashley (23:50):
True.
Arielle Nissenblatt (23:50):
We have one more question from a listener.
This one comes from Oliver, whosent in the question via email.
I'm curious whether there are anykinks slash fetishes you wanted to
cover but couldn't, or any newlyemerging kinks which need more
research before they can be covered.
Ashley (24:04):
So there's so many kinks that need more research.
There are just, there are just awhole, there's a whole ocean of kinks
that have not been looked at at allresearch wise, um, and so that's,
that's why this is a mini series, right?
It's like, I can't do an entirepodcast that's like 100 episodes
long on this, um, whereas, youknow, some people, some people have.
Why are people into that?
(24:24):
Tina Horne's podcast that she,she just talked about on the most
recent episode, they do talk about.
different kinks, but theydon't have that research angle.
So they, they have a littlebit more freedom there.
But for me, I, yeah, I'm, I'm limited.
But one that I really wish that Ihad covered was actually sent in by,
by someone via email, was basicallylike, salirophilia, or like a love
(24:46):
of just, you know, gross stuff,um, which kind of goes in with,
Arielle Nissenblatt (24:51):
you alluded to that.
Ashley (24:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I got, I like touched on it, but likepeople, you know, they, they were asking
about like people who buy soiled underwearon the internet, like what's up with that?
Or like, it's like dirty bathwater or things like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I, I looked into it andit's just, there isn't a lot there.
I would also love to do oneon, on just like pee fetishes.
(25:12):
Not a lot there either.
Um, yeah.
Those are, those are the two,like, just the gross stuff, yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (25:18):
That one gets a lot of coverage in media, I think,
the pee fetish, but yeah, I guess notenough people doing research on it.
Ashley (25:26):
Yeah, I was able to do a tiny bit for that, like, sampler
episode that I did, but I wouldhave loved to do a whole one.
Oh, well.
Arielle Nissenblatt (25:34):
Okay.
Those were our questionsfrom your audience.
Thank you to Paul, JasmineStealth1,and Oliver, much appreciated.
And I think more people willprobably have questions as they
continue to discover your podcast.
So where can they go tocontinue asking those questions?
Ashley (25:51):
Yeah.
Email me at ashley@tabooscience.showor just tweet at me at Taboo Science.
Arielle Nissenblatt (25:57):
Awesome.
Ashley, any other questions, commentsthat you'd like to make before
we close out this Q& A episode?
Ashley (26:05):
Hmm.
I feel like I just want to make itclear that like, I am a straight married
mother that, like, got into this, soit just feels, it feels very, as much
as I've always been interested in this,and I am a Dance Savage listener, and I
just like, like to think and talk aboutthis stuff, I feel like an outsider.
(26:27):
I feel like an outsider looking in onthese, these different communities, and,
like, I Like, at first, it started, itwould, like, make me blush, and I feel
like I've, I've become desensitizedto it a lot over, over the time.
Except at work.
Except at work!
And so, yeah, um, people are like,oh, what is your podcast about?
And I was like, let's change the subject!
Uh, but, um, it's been so fulfilling andgreat, and I've loved everyone that I've
(26:53):
met through it, um, and I, you know.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's changed me a bit.
Um, so that's been, yeah,it's been really nice.
Arielle Nissenblatt (27:01):
And you even got to tackle your white whale of
doing an episode on foot fetishes.
Ashley (27:06):
Yes.
Arielle Nissenblatt (27:06):
So if you haven't listened to that episode yet, listeners,
viewers, definitely go back becausethat's, uh, would you call that your, it's
your white whale, it's your magnum opus.
Ashley (27:15):
It was, it was my white whale because It was first on my list.
I was like, obviously I'm goingto do one on foot fetishes.
And then I just could not getanyone to respond to me to go on it.
And, uh, eventually Ipulled it, I pulled it off.
I finally got, you know, JustinLehmiller and, and Tina Horn on there.
But, um, yeah, it was, I wasactively attempting to do that while
(27:37):
creating the rest of the season.
And finally, finally,I got it all together.
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (27:41):
So podcasters, creators, if you have a specific
interview in mind, keep pushing.
You never know when it'll come throughand make a really great episode.
Yeah.
Well, Ashley, thank you so much formaking this mini series and for inviting
me to ask you questions about it.
I really appreciate it.
And I look forward to the nextmini series and regular episodes.
Ashley (28:01):
Yay.
Thanks so much, Arielle.
This was great.
Thanks for listening.
Hope you sated your curiosity.
If you have more questions,definitely reach out.
How to do that, again, is byemailing ashley at tabooscience.
show or tweeting at tabooscience.
(28:23):
This is the final, final episodeof Season 4, Philias, and I will be
taking a long break before Season 5.
So, if you want to stay updated onwhat's next, subscribe to the newsletter.
Just head to tabooscience.
show and enter your emailaddress in the newsletter box.
In the meantime, why not give the showa rating and review on Apple Podcasts?
(28:45):
It'd be really nice.
Thank you, truly, for listening.
When we come back, I hopeyou tune in to Season 5.
I won't tell anyone.
Hi there, Taboo Science listeners.
This is a very special Q& A episodewhere I talk about my experience
making the Philias miniseries all aboutthe science of kinks and fetishes.
If you're brand new to the podcast,I'd recommend pressing stop on this
one and listening to another just toget a feel for what this show is about.
You can always come backto this one if you want to.
(00:25):
The first episode of Philias is theepisode entitled, How Many Kinks Exist?
And that's a great place to start.
For this episode, I recruitedpodcasting celebrity, Taboo Science
listener, and my co worker, ArielleNissenblatt, to interview me.
I hope you like what you hear.
I'll be back at the end to let youknow the future plans for the podcast.
(00:47):
Take it away, Arielle.
Arielle Nissenblatt (01:10):
My name's Arielle Nissenblatt.
I am a big time podcast listener.
I have a podcast recommendationnewsletter called Earbuds Podcast
Collective, and I've been workingin the podcast space since 2017.
Right now, I am Ashley'scoworker at Descript.
I am on the community team there.
So I live and breathe podcasts, both inmy professional and in my personal life.
(01:30):
And I am here today.
Because I am going to interviewAshley about Taboo Science.
I have been listening for a few years now.
I am especially a huge fan of theseries that just wrapped up that
I think we're going to be spendinga lot of time talking about today.
And I think everybodyshould be a fan of the show.
So I'm here to spread the word.
Ashley (01:48):
Yay.
I'm super excited to talk to you.
So let's get started.
Get into it.
Let's go.
Arielle Nissenblatt (01:54):
So we have a bunch of questions here today, some that I
have written, some that you have writtenthat you kind of want to ask yourself,
but you're going to have me do it.
Then we also have a bunch of questionsfrom the internet, both from YouTube
and from social media, from thepeople that have been following
Taboo Science for some time now.
So let's get started with somequestions that I have for you.
First, I think, this is frontof mind for me, is why did you
(02:18):
decide to do a miniseries on kink?
Ashley (02:21):
Yeah, I guess I wanted to do it because I have this really big database
of different topics that, um, areoptions for covering on the show, and I
started adding a lot of different kinks.
And I realized that I could just diveinto all of them in one miniseries.
There's also just sortof a strategy to it.
(02:42):
I had heard that, that miniseriesare a good way to like market your
show and to do something new and,um, get people like reinvested in it.
And so I thought this would bethe perfect way to, uh, to kind
of, yeah, to figure it out.
And what I didn't realize, uh, overdoing aminiseries, is that it's, it's really cool
(03:03):
to start seeing the patterns between therelated topics and you kind of become a
little bit of an expert in the thing thatyou're covering versus covering a bunch
of disparate topics and kind of havingto learn on the go every single time.
You start to be like, oh yeah, no,I remember this fact from this other
topic and so we can tie them together.
(03:24):
Um, so I, I really loved it.
It was, it was great.
I, I want to do it again.
Arielle Nissenblatt (03:28):
In the past, did you do any miniseries that made you want to do
this miniseries or is this your first one?
Ashley (03:34):
This is my first one.
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (03:36):
Cool.
Mini is an interesting word becauseyou did a lot of episodes on Kink.
Ashley (03:42):
I did, yeah.
I guess it ended up being
Arielle Nissenblatt (03:44):
How many
all together?
Ashley (03:45):
Nine?
Arielle Nissenblatt (03:46):
That's a lot.
Ashley (03:46):
Let me make sure.
Arielle Nissenblatt: That's a big miniseries. (03:47):
undefined
Ashley (03:48):
Yeah, yeah.
I think it, I meant for it to besmaller than this and then, um, I
ended up, kinks just kept coming up.
I just had to, there were more andmore that I wanted to do, so, yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (04:01):
Okay, so now let's get into the content
of the miniseries on kink.
Did you have any preconceptions atthe beginning of your exploration
into these taboo topics that wereshattered or that were reinforced?
Ashley (04:15):
So I think, like, I've always been very open minded about kink and, like,
I think it's very, you know, what peopleare into is, like, that's up to them.
It's not, you know, I'm not gonna yuckyour yum, but I definitely had a few
that I was like, well, that one's weird.
Or like, that one's, I mean, people are,I don't know, I don't know about that one.
(04:35):
Like, why would anybody be into that?
Or, um, and I definitely had somejust like judgy thoughts that
I just couldn't get rid of, um,about, about a few different ones.
And, um, I, I shattered them completely.
Like, I just, I mean, it completely,learning about all of these
kinks kind of made me realizethat, like, they're all the same.
(04:55):
It's, it's all the same.
It's all just stuff that we'rekind of, we find ways, I don't
want to say we're wired for it.
So it's like, I'm trying tofigure out a better way to say it.
Like, we all just, we grow up, weexperience the environment, we experience
things that turn us on, that kindof wire our brains in a new way, and
(05:17):
then we're into that thing, and thenthat thing is the thing that brings
us pleasure, and, and it's like, itdoesn't really matter what it is.
Some people have things that arereally common, some people have
things that are like way more niche,but they're, they're all kind of
just flavors of the same thing.
Uh, so I, I feel like now if I learnabout a new kink that I've never heard of
(05:37):
before, it, it, I process it a lot better.
I process it of, of just like, ohcool, that's, that's very cool that,
that someone could be into that.
I, I totally understand.
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (05:47):
Our brains work in mysterious ways.
Ashley (05:49):
They do.
They do.
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (05:51):
I first was exposed to the kinks beyond, you
know, the classic ones that you hearof, like, feet, foot fetishes, which
is, I think, your last episode.
It was your white whale, as you called it.
It was.
Um, and some of the other, like, Idon't want to call them mainstream,
they're not mainstream, butthey're kinks for a reason, right?
They're paraphilias for a reason.
(06:12):
ABDL, I heard about for the first timelistening to Dan Savage's podcast, Savage
Love, and a bunch of other ones like that.
I learned by listening to Dan Savagein like 2016, and I, that's what first
exposed me to this, so I feel likeme listening to Your miniseries, I
was sort of desensitized to the, ohmy god, people are into that, right?
(06:35):
So it's very interesting and I'mcurious how other people took it.
Did you get any people reachingout to say like, this is either
super inappropriate or appropriate?
Did anybody get mad?
Ashley (06:45):
So the only one that anyone ever got mad about was the zoophilia episode.
And a good number of peoplegot mad about that one.
Really?
What, on YouTube?
On YouTube, on, I got some Instagram DMs,uh, and I think the big thing was there's
a consent issue there with animals.
Right.
(07:05):
And which I, you know, I tried my best to,to, to, you know, cover that and kind of
show where you did, where they, you know,where this community is coming from there.
Um, and I think a lot of peoplethought that I didn't come out
strong enough to say that like,it's wrong, but like, that's not
really what the show is there for.
Arielle Nissenblatt (07:24):
You're not an activist in this.
Ashley (07:25):
Yeah.
Like I'm, I'm here to humanizegroups of people and I
humanized that group of people.
And that's, I mean, I, Iwas successful in that.
And I think there were still a lot ofpeople who thought that that's not.
what I should have done.
And yeah, you know what?
I, like, to be completely honest,like, that's, that's still on my mind.
I'm still constantly processing that,because this is, some of this stuff
(07:48):
is the most controversial topicsthat I've ever covered in my life.
Uh, so that's a new skillthat you have to learn.
that I feel like I am still learning, um,so I'm not saying that those people are
like 100 percent wrong, but I do feel likethat's not the purpose of my show, and if
you want to hear a show that goes afterzoophiles, you can find a ton of them.
(08:11):
There are a lot of people whoare, who are against that.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Villainize, yeah, yeah, yeah. (08:13):
undefined
Ashley (08:16):
I mean, otherwise, the feedback has been people, it's mostly people
emailing me saying like, this was sucha humanizing episode, like, I feel
like I, you know, either they're in thecommunity or they had heard about it,
and they just, they really appreciatedhow like nuanced and, um, sensitively
(08:37):
I, I covered a lot of the topics.
So yeah, I mean, most ofthe feedback has been good.
Arielle Nissenblatt (08:42):
So in past episodes, you know, all of the other taboo topics
that you've covered leading up to this.
What would you say, on average, howmany emails would you get per episode?
How many comments wouldyou get on YouTube?
And then, what I'm getting at here is, howmuch did it spike from this miniseries?
Ashley (09:00):
Yeah, the, the feedback has spiked a lot, uh, from this miniseries.
In the beginning, there still was,you know, I mean, it ramped up.
Um, and actually YouTube, the, I'vehad this whole process with YouTube
that maybe I'll, I'll mention too,but like, with YouTube, the The
feedback has just skyrocketed.
Yeah, generally, like, per episode,maybe I'll get two to five emails, and
(09:24):
then YouTube comments go from anywherefrom 10 to, boy, I think the biggest
one has like 50 on it, or maybe more.
I haven't actually lookedrecently, but, um, yeah.
Lots of, lots of feedback.
Lots of, um, lot, a lot more feedback thanI am used to as a podcaster, for sure.
Arielle Nissenblatt (09:41):
I think a lot of podcasters have trouble getting
any feedback at all, but if youdecide to cover a topic that you
know a lot of people are going tohave opinions about, that's one way.
That's one way, and you do it well.
That is one way of gettingpeople to slide into those DMs.
Totally.
Um, Ashley, do you have one?
(10:02):
Most important thing that you've learned.
Can you pinpoint a few lessonsor one particular lesson?
Ashley (10:07):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing I've learned is
that we all experience shame.
I think, I think this, this podcast hasreally given me an education in shame.
Um, and that shame is something thatwhen we experience it, our Knee jerk
reaction is to hide it and to coverit up and to not address it and doing
(10:32):
that causes all of the problems.
It's the, it makes, it just seepsinto every part of your life and
it, it poisons your relationshipsand it, and it just makes it so
that you can't live as a full human.
Um, and I think that what I've learnedis that if you are experiencing shame,
the best thing you can do is talkto someone about it that you trust,
(10:56):
either a friend, if you have someonethat you trust, or, or a therapist.
Um, and obviously with kink, it'slike you have to find the right
therapist because therapists canalso cause, cause harm with that too.
But yeah, I think it's like, Shame is sucha universal and um, and also the reaction
to shame is such a universal and I thinkit's, it's just I've realized like how
(11:17):
important it is to like, get that out ofyour system and like, because as soon as
you let it out into the world, it really,I think, from what I've heard from all
the people I've talked to is like, assoon as you get it out, you find out that
it's actually not as bad as you thoughtit was, and suddenly it dissipates.
Arielle Nissenblatt (11:33):
Yeah, I mean, that's part of why podcasts like this
and Reddit forums and other sorts ofgroups are so important for people to be
able to search for online so that theydon't feel alone, so that they don't
feel like something's wrong with them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
So thank you for creating.
Ashley, how did you get peopleto talk about such sensitive
(11:55):
topics on this podcast?
And, where I'm coming to from thatis, I know that you work really
hard to, you know, source the rightguests for the right episodes.
You, and you, and you Go after them andsometimes it takes a really long time.
So, you had a combination in thisseries of like professors and people
(12:15):
who've done research and then peoplewho are advocates for the community,
the kink community that they're in.
So, how did you find all of those guests?
Ashley (12:22):
Yeah, so I, from the very beginning, I took my kind of template
from my asexuality episode, which was thefirst time that I had had a researcher and
someone from the community in the episode.
And I felt like it made it so wellrounded and you got to hear the science,
but you also got to hear the emotionand like the personal experience of it.
(12:44):
And I knew that I wantedto do that with this.
Um, so the researchers were relativelyeasy as long as I could, you know,
convince them that I'm not a crackpot andI'm, I'm gonna make their, their research,
you know, make, make them look good.
And then, um, and the way that I did thatwas Every time I got another researcher
on board, I would just send that list tothe next person, be like, I have these
(13:08):
people who are going to talk to me.
And sometimes they'd be like, oh, yeah,no, I, I'm a big fan of that person.
I'll go on your show.
So that really worked.
And then for the people to, from thecommunity, that was something that I, I,
it took me a really long time to crackthat because nobody wants to talk about,
(13:28):
you their private life on a podcast.
Uh, and so I didn't really know.
I, at first I was like, maybe Reddit,like maybe I can find, so I, I sent
some things out to people on Redditand I never got any responses.
And, and I knew a few people whowere into some of these things.
I won't say who, but like one of the,one of the people that I interviewed
on, on the show actually has, islike a very longtime friend of mine.
(13:50):
And I was just like, Oh yeah, definitely.
I'm going to talk to them about this.
But finally the way that Icracked it was podcasters, like.
Podcasters, there are already peoplewho are podcasting about this.
Yeah, they're already,they're already out there.
Maybe their faces aren't, aren't outthere, but their voices are out there.
And they, they seem like theywould be happy to, to talk to me.
And that ended up being a really nicedouble edged sword because not only
(14:14):
were they willing to talk about it andable to talk about it, but also, you
know, you know, you know, of all people,
Arielle Nissenblatt (14:20):
Are you talking cross promos?
Ashley (14:21):
Yeah, like getting other podcasters on your show and then they
talk about it on their podcast andthen other people come on to listen.
So.
That was a, that was a great, likea winning strategy that I landed on
that I was, I was super happy with.
Arielle Nissenblatt (14:32):
Audience growth.
Ashley (14:32):
Yeah,
Arielle Nissenblatt (14:33):
yeah.
That's great.
Any other controversiesthat stand out to you?
Ashley (14:38):
I had a couple comments about the furry episode.
Hmm.
Um, just in like, likeprivately from people.
Hmm.
Uh, who maybe were in the community oradjacent to the community who actually
sort of pushed back on me saying that it'snot a fetish because they're and and I've
(14:59):
I've tried to kind of wrestle with thistoo because it is very clear that there is
a furry fetish and it is very clear thatlike furry pornography is a huge part of
that community and The media has been soawful to furries that there's this, like,
knee jerk, like, pushback on, like, No,no, no, this is totally not a sex thing.
(15:19):
There's no sex involved.
Uh, this is all aboutjust, just fun animals.
And it's like, um, some peoplekind of were suggesting that I was,
I didn't actually delve into thesex part as much as I could have.
Um, or, or even not, not delve in, butjust, like, I think I was protesting
too much that it wasn't a sex thing.
Whereas, like, the sex thingactually is a bigger part of the
(15:41):
community that I portrayed and
yeah, um, and I think what that was justlike, I really wanted to do right by my
guests and my guests were saying that
Arielle Nissenblatt (15:52):
there's a line.
Ashley (15:53):
Yeah, it's hard.
It's hard,
Arielle Nissenblatt (15:55):
right?
There's a line.
You're also not employed by a journalisticoutlet that makes it so that you
must equally represent both sides.
This is up to you.
Ultimately, it's tricky.
You can not.
You can put disclaimers in there.
You can say, here's my methodology.
Here's my ideology.
Here's why I'm thinking this, butthat would be a boring episode.
So you put out the episode that isentertaining and is educational and
(16:19):
is respectful to the people whose timeyou are asking for as your guests.
And then also your listeners.
I think that providing them with aproduct that teaches them is great.
And then obviously you are.
admitting to some of the potentialshortcomings by having this episode.
Ashley (16:35):
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (16:37):
So let's now move to some questions from listeners.
Are you ready?
Yeah.
Okay, this question comes from Paul,who is your follower on Twitter.
Paul asks, what was the most surprisingthing that you learned, and what was the
most fascinating thing that you learned?
Ashley (16:55):
Hmm, I, I learned a ton of fascinating things.
I think the thing that comes to mindmost right now, that I actually, it
didn't make it into an episode, um, butI think I might make a YouTube short
on it or something, is that in the ABDLcommunity, the diapers they buy, are
made by the same companies that make likemedical supply diapers and they, these
(17:21):
companies basically, they saw that therewas this community that was buying their
diapers not for a medical need and theywere like, oh, Well, what do they want?
Like what we should talk to them.
And they did some user researchand they're like, Oh, they
want cute pictures on them.
They want cute colors.
(17:41):
Like, okay, we'll do that.
And they made like a bunch of linesof different cute ABDL diapers,
which I feel like if you look at somany other industries where as soon
as anything, like, for example, I'mlistening to a wonderful series on the
history of the magic wand vibrator, uh,and, and what they did, the Hitachi.
(18:03):
Hitachi makes all sorts of like kitchenmachines and stuff like that, and
they had this personal massager thatended up becoming this, this like
legendary thing in the sex world.
And they were like, Oh, we're justgoing to stop making it because we
feel uncomfortable about that, eventhough it was selling incredibly well.
And someone actually, a differentcompany had to, had to come in
(18:24):
and be like, do not do that.
Like, sell it to us.
We'll, we'll continue to make it.
Like that.
Like capitalism didn'tsave the day there, right?
It was just sort of like,they're like, no, no, no, we're,
this is associated with sex.
We don't want to be associated with sex,which is what so many companies would do.
And I think it's so cool that this diapercompany was like, yeah, okay, cool.
(18:44):
We'll make some stuff for you.
Great.
More diapers for everybody.
Arielle Nissenblatt (18:48):
Wow.
Ashley (18:49):
Yeah,
Arielle Nissenblatt (18:49):
that's great.
Ashley (18:50):
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (18:50):
So that's surprising and fascinating.
Did you want to add something else?
Ashley (18:55):
Um, another one that maybe didn't make it in was that in the just
general Kinks 101, um, episode, Aellatold me that violent porn is actually
most popular among women, not men.
And so a lot of people say, like,we need to, we need to stop violent
porn because it hurts women.
(19:17):
And she pointed out that, like, puttinga stop to violent porn actually would
hurt women more because, like, they'rethe, they're the main consumers of this
stuff, which was so surprising to me, too.
Arielle Nissenblatt (19:26):
There you go.
Ashley (19:26):
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (19:27):
Wow.
So, not only do you teach, you also learn.
Thank you to Paul for that question.
Let's go to this question fromYouTube, from Jasmine Stealth 1.
They write, After looking at this,I looked at your web, and I wonder,
with a platform like this, and beingintroduced to all these things, has it
affected your personal intimate spaces?
Or are you just fascinated?
(19:47):
And, of course, this isa very personal question.
You can choose how much you wouldlike to tell us, and how much you
would like to keep to yourself.
Ashley (19:53):
Totally!
Uh, so yeah, basically the questionis, like, Did you introduce any of this
into your own sex life, which I'm not.
No, I didn't.
I'll just say that.
I didn't like my sex life is the same.
Um, but what I was actually expectingwas for me, not for, for my libido to
just tank because I was talking aboutall these things and like, in like this
(20:15):
very clinical way and, um, and veryacademic way that didn't happen either.
Really, nothing, nothing is different.
There's for me, nothing is different.
You just learned.
I just learned, I learned and I felt,uh, maybe I felt a little bit more
comfortable about my own sexuality,just like, because being able to talk
about this stuff just is, you know,it's a way to break taboos, right?
(20:37):
So, um, it, yeah, that made me,I mean, more comfortable about
my own sexuality in my own way.
Like, personal life.
It still sucks to talk about mypodcast with, like, professional
colleagues, but, um, but yeah, nota lot, not a lot changed with that.
Arielle Nissenblatt (20:54):
Does your family know that you made this miniseries?
Ashley (20:58):
My mom listens to every episode.
Which is a little, a little mortifying,um, but I do like to say she's the
one who taught me what circumcisionwas at the dinner table when we were
eating, uh, what were we eating?
Uh, okra.
It was okra in, in gumbo.
(21:20):
And she like, peeled off the outside ofthe okra to show what that, cause I, I
was like, I don't know, what is this?
No, no, she's a lawyer, but yeah, I wasjust, yeah, I was like, I was like a
tween and I was like, what circumcision?
She's like, well, uh, and she showedme, so she's not, she doesn't, she
doesn't blush about this stuff.
So I guess that's where I get it.
Arielle Nissenblatt (21:43):
Going back to Jasmine's question about whether
you introduced this into your life.
I think another question we canpull from that is how did learning
about ABDL make you feel differentlyabout motherhood because of the
connection to diapers, of course?
Ashley (21:58):
Right.
That was another one that I thought I wasgoing to feel really uncomfortable about.
I, I really, when I got into it,I was like, this could, this could
bring up some weird feelings for me.
Um, and it didn't, it didn't becauseI'm just, I was so happy about that
because the thing is when I learnedmore about it, it's just a game.
(22:19):
It's just, it's, it's so farremoved from actual babies
and actual, like any of that.
It's like, Um, I mean, I love, you know,to bring in Dan Savage, you know, kink
is cops and robbers with your pants down.
Like that's, it's a, it'sa game, it's a role play.
Uh, it doesn't really have a lotof connection to real parenthood,
(22:42):
real babies, real diapers.
Um, so it actually, I was fine.
I was, a lot of this was like that.
A lot of this, I waslike, oh, I don't know.
And then it was great.
It was great.
And then you were fine.
Yeah.
You're so resilient.
Actually, I will say the one that I didhave to do a lot of thinking about, coming
back to this topic again, bazoophilia.
I had to, of course, I think it took me,because they, they pitched me on that.
(23:06):
And I, at first I was like, no.
And then.
I thought about it for a few weeks, andthen I decided to do it was basically like
I had to just educate myself for a littlewhile and kind of come around to it, which
I think was one of the reasons that someof these comments were frustrating because
I think I may have started out wherethey were, and then I thought about it.
(23:27):
Like, I really put in some hard work.
You did the thinking, yeah.
Yeah, and so the, I just sawthat these people hadn't thought
about it, and it was frustrating.
But also, like, yeah, they just haven'thad as much time with it as I have.
Arielle Nissenblatt (23:40):
Yeah, they need to be exposed to it.
And then, maybe over time,their minds open a bit.
Ashley (23:44):
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (23:45):
But they would probably say, I don't want
to open my mind to this, right?
There's a lot of layers here.
Ashley (23:50):
True.
Arielle Nissenblatt (23:50):
We have one more question from a listener.
This one comes from Oliver, whosent in the question via email.
I'm curious whether there are anykinks slash fetishes you wanted to
cover but couldn't, or any newlyemerging kinks which need more
research before they can be covered.
Ashley (24:04):
So there's so many kinks that need more research.
There are just, there are just awhole, there's a whole ocean of kinks
that have not been looked at at allresearch wise, um, and so that's,
that's why this is a mini series, right?
It's like, I can't do an entirepodcast that's like 100 episodes
long on this, um, whereas, youknow, some people, some people have.
Why are people into that?
(24:24):
Tina Horne's podcast that she,she just talked about on the most
recent episode, they do talk about.
different kinks, but theydon't have that research angle.
So they, they have a littlebit more freedom there.
But for me, I, yeah, I'm, I'm limited.
But one that I really wish that Ihad covered was actually sent in by,
by someone via email, was basicallylike, salirophilia, or like a love
(24:46):
of just, you know, gross stuff,um, which kind of goes in with,
Arielle Nissenblatt (24:51):
you alluded to that.
Ashley (24:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I got, I like touched on it, but likepeople, you know, they, they were asking
about like people who buy soiled underwearon the internet, like what's up with that?
Or like, it's like dirty bathwater or things like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I, I looked into it andit's just, there isn't a lot there.
I would also love to do oneon, on just like pee fetishes.
(25:12):
Not a lot there either.
Um, yeah.
Those are, those are the two,like, just the gross stuff, yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (25:18):
That one gets a lot of coverage in media, I think,
the pee fetish, but yeah, I guess notenough people doing research on it.
Ashley (25:26):
Yeah, I was able to do a tiny bit for that, like, sampler
episode that I did, but I wouldhave loved to do a whole one.
Oh, well.
Arielle Nissenblatt (25:34):
Okay.
Those were our questionsfrom your audience.
Thank you to Paul, JasmineStealth1,and Oliver, much appreciated.
And I think more people willprobably have questions as they
continue to discover your podcast.
So where can they go tocontinue asking those questions?
Ashley (25:51):
Yeah.
Email me at ashley@tabooscience.showor just tweet at me at Taboo Science.
Arielle Nissenblatt (25:57):
Awesome.
Ashley, any other questions, commentsthat you'd like to make before
we close out this Q& A episode?
Ashley (26:05):
Hmm.
I feel like I just want to make itclear that like, I am a straight married
mother that, like, got into this, soit just feels, it feels very, as much
as I've always been interested in this,and I am a Dance Savage listener, and I
just like, like to think and talk aboutthis stuff, I feel like an outsider.
(26:27):
I feel like an outsider looking in onthese, these different communities, and,
like, I Like, at first, it started, itwould, like, make me blush, and I feel
like I've, I've become desensitizedto it a lot over, over the time.
Except at work.
Except at work!
And so, yeah, um, people are like,oh, what is your podcast about?
And I was like, let's change the subject!
Uh, but, um, it's been so fulfilling andgreat, and I've loved everyone that I've
(26:53):
met through it, um, and I, you know.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's changed me a bit.
Um, so that's been, yeah,it's been really nice.
Arielle Nissenblatt (27:01):
And you even got to tackle your white whale of
doing an episode on foot fetishes.
Ashley (27:06):
Yes.
Arielle Nissenblatt (27:06):
So if you haven't listened to that episode yet, listeners,
viewers, definitely go back becausethat's, uh, would you call that your, it's
your white whale, it's your magnum opus.
Ashley (27:15):
It was, it was my white whale because It was first on my list.
I was like, obviously I'm goingto do one on foot fetishes.
And then I just could not getanyone to respond to me to go on it.
And, uh, eventually Ipulled it, I pulled it off.
I finally got, you know, JustinLehmiller and, and Tina Horn on there.
But, um, yeah, it was, I wasactively attempting to do that while
(27:37):
creating the rest of the season.
And finally, finally,I got it all together.
Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt (27:41):
So podcasters, creators, if you have a specific
interview in mind, keep pushing.
You never know when it'll come throughand make a really great episode.
Yeah.
Well, Ashley, thank you so much formaking this mini series and for inviting
me to ask you questions about it.
I really appreciate it.
And I look forward to the nextmini series and regular episodes.
Ashley (28:01):
Yay.
Thanks so much, Arielle.
This was great.
Thanks for listening.
Hope you sated your curiosity.
If you have more questions,definitely reach out.
How to do that, again, is byemailing ashley at tabooscience.
show or tweeting at tabooscience.
(28:23):
This is the final, final episodeof Season 4, Philias, and I will be
taking a long break before Season 5.
So, if you want to stay updated onwhat's next, subscribe to the newsletter.
Just head to tabooscience.
show and enter your emailaddress in the newsletter box.
In the meantime, why not give the showa rating and review on Apple Podcasts?
(28:45):
It'd be really nice.
Thank you, truly, for listening.
When we come back, I hopeyou tune in to Season 5.
I won't tell anyone.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.