December 26, 2022 • 67 mins
In this episode we talk with Sam Park from Daedo, the history and future of the company and also about the issues at the 2022 World Championships
In this episode, Coach César Valentim and Sam Park talk about one of the biggest Taekwondo equipment brands, we also talk about the issues occurred at the 2022 World Championships. We also get an exclusive inside on what's coming up with the Gen3 Daedo PSS, that is being released in the next couple of months.
Listen to a friendly conversation that touches the most controversial aspects of these championships, how the electronic system is being developed and what we will see in the next version of Electronic Scoring systems.
This podcast is supported by Hawkin Dynamics, Firstbeat Sports and Athlete Analyzer!
Visit our Instagram @taekwondopodcast and Facebook @taekwondocast
Visit our Instagram @taekwondopodcast and Facebook @taekwondocast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Have you been looking for a TaeKwonDo podcast with
qualified people who know whatthey're talking about, who help
you keep up with everythinggoing on in the TaeKwonDo world?
Well, you found it.
This is the TaeKwonDo podcast,TaeKwonDo News Competitions and
other events, training andsports science, keeping the
(00:23):
fans, coaches, and highperformance athletes Up today
with the latest news and trendson Olympic TaeKwonDo.
Let's do this.
This is the TaeKwonDo podcast.
And now your hosts Coach CesarValenti team and Peter Nestle.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello and welcome to the Tedo Podcast.
We're a podcast based Austria inEnglish language.
For everyone out there who likesthe, in this episode, we talk
with Sam Park Manager from DataInternational.
(01:07):
Welcome to our podcast.
I'm Coser with me, Sam Park.
Hi Sam, how are you?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Hello.
I'm good.
I am right now in freezing Korea.
We're under under 10 DegreesCentre, but, uh, yeah, just
enjoying the cool weather andthe Christmas Times.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, for as a disclaimer, I would like to say
that the Teo Podcast has nocommercial relationship with
Dedo.
We're not sponsored by Dedo.
We don't own, uh, any money.
It was no, uh, commercial orgift exchange for this podcast.
Myself has a club, of course,I'm a client of Data
International and, uh, localdata shops, but that's as far as
our business relationship goes.
(01:54):
Uh, for everyone listening.
Uh, Sam, could you please tellus a bit about yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, so, uh, I am the son of the c e o and founder
of the company Data.
Um, I was born and raised inSpain.
I have a degree in internationalbusiness, and I have been
working in the company since asa technician for the PSS and
(02:25):
thousand.
I have been doing more officework and, uh, being more on the
product development side and theday-to-day management of the
company.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Oh, I would like to thank you for your time to have
a conversation with me on thispodcast.
It's a bit different to have oneof our many chats in private and
have the entire world listeningto on it, but it's, I think many
people are interested in knowingsome more stuff about Dedo.
My first tough question is, howdo you say the name of your
company?
Dedo or?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes.
Um, it seems like it's a globalcon confusion, right?
Um, it's actually pronounced is,it's actually two words, um,
from Korean, which is like whenyou say some, something is great
(03:24):
or big, and though, as you know,it's a path away, and basically
the name means the, the greatway or the great path.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, that's answer the question pretty well.
It's interesting to know thatthere is actually a
philosophical background on thename.
Um, I'm from Portugal, so Dedois from Next Door, Spain.
We have known your company allmy life.
So can you tell us how thecompany actually started?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yes.
Uh, my father, he moved to Spainin 1981, and for, uh, a bit more
than two years, he had been, um,working somewhere else and he
saw, like, there was an openingin the market for TaeKwonDo,
(04:17):
basically.
Um, most of the Spanish, um,TaeKwonDo, uh, they were making
orders from Korea and they hadto the whole order and wait for
three months in order to, forthem to get some to Spain.
(04:40):
And he saw the quality, itwasn't that, uh, high, and he
thought, you know, I could makeit myself here in Spain and, uh,
I could serve my clients rightaway instead of having, instead
of them having to wait for threeor four months and being
(05:01):
uncertain whether it was gonnaget to them or not.
So in three, he, he some sewingmachines from, from South Korea,
and he started, he bought thefabric in Spain, and he started
(05:22):
making basic to look with whitecolor and black.
And he started selling them, uh,locally at some point there was
a World Championships, I thinkit's 1987, where, uh, he was,
(05:46):
they did, was the, one of thesponsors of the, of the event.
And that's where the companyactually started to grow.
And in 92, in the Olympic Gamesin Barcelona, uh, there was the
official supplier of theTaeKwonDo equipment.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I re I remember those days.
Yeah.
I had, uh, yes, one of my, uh,early door box, uh, was actually
a special edition Barcelona Dedo.
We had the logo of the games
Speaker 3 (06:22):
.
Yes.
And that, that's where actuallycompany became, uh, year
and 2000, uh, I, Iforget the dates, but then we
(06:43):
became a recognized company forWar Federation back then.
And, uh, yeah.
And after that, we just keptgrowing and expanding to other
sports like karate, judo and,and you know, some kofu, et
(07:04):
cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, you guys have a big assortment.
Your online shop is pretty big,and you have a wide range of
material from beginners to veryadvanced levels.
Actually, the, some of myplayers, uh, have the used in
the newest system, the door box,and the new equipment.
And it's, uh, it's impressive tosee the door book I had in the
(07:27):
1992 Barcelona.
The addition we made of cottonand what you see these days also
, uh, different materials,design quality of the equipment
is, um, yes, it's dedo.
It's known for, uh, being ahigh, high level and for most
national teams and professionalcompetitors using them.
(07:48):
Um, Dedo has also been involvedfor over a decade with the
development of electronicscoring systems, the famous pss,
the protective scoring systemsthat, uh, electronic and helm
vest and helmet that we see at,uh, Olympics and the, uh,
international competitions.
Uh, how did you get involved inthat?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well, um, it was, I think it was in eight, after the
Beijing Olympics, um, presidentdecided needed to implement
system for scoring.
And since then we had, uh, beenlooking for a partner to develop
(08:33):
the, the p the what's now calledpss.
But before, before the system,we had, uh, we have now we had
been working with, uh, anotherEuropean company, but that
system didn't, wasn't really,um,
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Up to the standard,
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yeah, up to the standards for TaeKwonDo.
You know, technology worked, butit didn't work for TaeKwonDo.
So tru thousand and nine, oryeah, 2009 or two eight that he
(09:21):
came up with a system and hepresented it to, to Walter
Federation.
And somebody actually introducedhim to my father because of
course he had the technology andwe had the infrastructure to be
(09:44):
able to produce, so manufactureand, and sell and market the
actual product.
So that's where, that's when wesigned a partnership.
And, uh, basically since then,we have been producing the PSS
(10:05):
ourselves and the developmentand all the new technologies
actually come from, from theUnited States, from San Jose.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
That's, uh, I remember having my first dedo
scoring systems in January, 2011when I bought my first ones, the
first generation one.
And then of course, in insidegeneration one, you would see
different, uh, progressions,different gen, smaller
generations and differentversions where you would notice
that they would have three dots,six dots, and then you would be
(10:38):
able to understand, uh, whichkind of, uh, alliteration of the
vests were coming out and theywere getting improved.
And then in 2016, we had the,the generation two is how is
this development done in termsof, I know we're getting very
much into technology, but it is,uh, what our podcast is all
about.
Um, the, the duration too.
(11:00):
There is of course a differentset of, uh, sensors, but also
the software is also beingdeveloped, and the software is
being developed a lot.
The rules changed, the, you guyshave to put up a new software
out there.
And in this year alone, I guesswe had a few different versions
of the software.
I've tried some better versions,and yeah, sometimes the version
that even the stable versionthat is outside is not the same
(11:22):
one used, uh, with the, at theLast World Championships.
Um, can you tell us how you guysdo it?
How is who, who developed thenthe software and how do you guys
came up with, uh, improving thevests, uh, so often?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Um, so answering to you first, uh, question about
the, how, how we start, how wedo the whole development of the
actual hard hardware.
Um, basically after WorldChampionships in Chile, um, of
(12:04):
course always on under highcriticism, we, we got a letter
from saying that we needed tochange a few things from our
system.
So basically back then they saidit was too easy to score, um,
and, uh, that we needed toimprove some certain points.
(12:30):
So,
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, remember at that time it was the, it was the
monkey kicks and the
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Scratches were, yeah, mm-hmm.
, yeah, the monkeycakes and everything, which, you
know, uh, honestly, personally,I think that that could have
been, uh, stopped by changingthe rules instead of us, you
know, having to adapt the systemto, to try to avoid those kind
(12:56):
of kicks.
But back then it was all aboutthe pss, all the pressure was on
, on us.
So we had to come up with a newsystem for the, the final, the
final in, by the end of 2015, Ithink it was in Mexico.
(13:18):
Uh, so we only had about threemonths.
We made maybe more than ahundred samples.
And we came up, we, we came upwith, um, with, uh, so, uh, that
(13:40):
actually reduced the number ofkicks scored by just tapping on
the, on the, on the pss.
So the kicks have to be harder,and, you know, you have to
really put in your weight intothe kicks, so it would actually
score.
(14:01):
And, uh, also we had develop newhardware in, like, in the
electronic side, so newtransmitters, new receivers, et
cetera.
And with that, we went to theMexico, and it was a, actually
the first time we were using itin a event.
(14:23):
But, um, since it was animprovement, uh, people had to
adapt, you know, but not manypeople are complaining about it
because they, they, they sawthat we were making an effort to
improve and to make the sportbetter by making the technology
(14:47):
being used in the sport better.
Um, so usually that's, that'show we go on with the develop
development.
We make the samples, we test, wemake the samples, again, we
test.
So we make around, um, maybe 150, 200 samples every time there
(15:10):
is a new development.
Uh, and we, we like to test iton the field.
We test it in the lab, we testit on the field, and we make
sure that it's a reliable beforewe start mass producing, making
it marketable, marketableproduct.
(15:32):
Um, on the other side, we havethe software, uh, you were
asking the software, how wedevelop it is basically world
TaeKwonDo, the, the ITdepartment.
Um, they give us some softwarespecifications and how we have
to change the functioning of the, of the software.
(15:59):
And with that, we work on it.
And once we have the softwareready, we test it and we look
for any bugs, and we go back andfix those bugs.
And then when we have somethingthat's actually kinda working,
(16:24):
and if we're in a rush to use itin a big championship or Grand
Prix or championship, as long asit, those bugs are not really a
big problem, right?
In the, in the competition, we,we just go with it.
If, if it's a big bug, then we adeveloper to change, make those
(16:47):
changes as fast as possible.
And then, uh, we usually,usually we come up with a
workable version by the time weneed to use it.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You've mentioned that , uh, the, the rules need to
change to adapt to the pss, butmost of the complaints we had
even here at this podcast isthat we think that technology
should be adapted to the rulesthat WT puts outside.
And then we've seen many timesthe rules, uh, fixing flaws in
the systems.
For example, every system outthere has an issue with the face
(17:21):
kicks, uh, because of coursethere's no sensors in the face.
We have, uh, problems that, uh,the, uh, headshots are many
times not scored, and we changethe rules this time.
We change them pretty well thisyear in 2022, and this is the
last podcast of 2022, um, that,uh, coaches can ask for.
The video will play again to theheadshots.
Do you think that, um, if thepss your brand and, uh, the
(17:46):
competitors would be, and, andof course they will better than
the, with the rules revert?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Well, um, one of the, one of the aftermath aftermaths
of a coach being able to ask forwhen there is a, when there's a
(18:17):
kick that looks like a head kickand it didn't score, um, is that
the referees, you know, thevideo jury on the screen might
think that there was a contact,right?
(18:38):
Mm-hmm.
, there was acontact from the foot protector
to the headgear, but there wasno point.
They, they think, well, itactually looks like it's
touching.
They, they look for, for anotherangle, you can't really see.
They look for another angle.
You can't really see.
So, so they accept it, right?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Mm-hmm.
,
Speaker 3 (19:04):
So is is that it looks like the head pss, so the
head guard is not workingbecause every time a coach ask
for an unclear head point, right?
(19:25):
If the jury doesn't see veryclearly and thinks and assumed
there was a, there was animpact, they will give the
point.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah.
Most of the times we know thatit's, um, even the foot touching
the head, it didn't touch withthe sensor part of the sensor
feet.
So the, as, as you know, thefeet has, uh, some socks with
some sensors, but there's noteverywhere in the foot there
that their sensors are, uh,attached to.
And sometimes you hit with apart of the foot that doesn't
(20:00):
have sensors.
So we do understand that inthose cases, it's, um, the point
doesn't come up.
Um, uh, that's a little bit, uh,situation that has to, to do
with the development of theplacement of the sensors in the,
in the feet or the kind oftechnique used.
Most players know where thesensors are, they know which
kind of techniques they score,so they adapt the techniques to
(20:20):
scoring in the PSS system.
But, uh, again, psss havedifferent systems.
And when you touch, uh, somewith some data system, um, on
the vest or on the helmet with,uh, some parts of the foot, it
will score.
Others will not.
Um, it's, uh, of course withother brands, it's different.
So the players end up adaptingto the system they're using to
(20:41):
how they actually kick.
Um, that's something that is thereality of the sport.
It happens with the, uh, withthe TaeKwonDo, and it's
something that has beencriticized a little bit, is that
, uh, we are not standardized interms of the, how the systems
are out there each to make themain two brands that are, uh,
recognized.
They have, uh, very, verydifferent technologies.
(21:02):
And when you have to, to scorewith them, you have to adapt to
the technology.
And you don't see that in othersports.
It doesn't matter what kind of,uh, fussball football, um, uh,
brand, it's manufacturing, thefootball balls, they are all
with the same specifications.
You think that's gonna happenwith the, the Latin and they
make a standardization on, uh,on the scoring systems and make
(21:23):
you guys, uh, the differentbrands competing out there to,
to produce similar products?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Well, it's pretty simple for us.
The issue, you talk about thefoot, uh, sensors, um, basically
it's was telling us where to putthose sensors day.
Mm-hmm.
When we showed them, look, thisis the, the placement.
(21:53):
They say, you know, add this.
No, remove that or add one morehere, add one more there.
That's, that's how we work.
We don't usually come up withsomething and say, no, this is
it, and you have to go with it.
We adapt to whatever Walter says.
Um, when it comes tostandardization of this, of, of
(22:14):
the pss, you know, there's somerules, right?
There's some rules saying thatwhen the foot, uh, under, under
the, the ankle, right?
Any, any area, any part of, ofthe foot under, under the ankle,
(22:35):
uh, touches the protected partof the truck or the head.
That's a point, right?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Mm-hmm.
,
Speaker 3 (22:50):
So in the rules, there's a, there's a thing that
says a valid scoring area, right?
When the foot touches thatballet scoring area, which is
usually the color part of the,of the, of the vest, that's
where, where it actually canscore.
(23:12):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
And when we talk, for example, about the, the system,
the outer part of the foot, the doesn't have any
sensors on it.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah.
So it's, it's easy as justadding more, it's, it's what I'm
, what I'm saying.
When, when we ask, um, when weask Monte Kondo, you know, what
do you think about this?
What do you think about that?
Back in the day when we weredeveloping the gen, the gen two,
(23:44):
we put the sensors where theyare right now, because that's
where everyone believed theyshould be.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So right
Speaker 3 (23:55):
To, to avoid some kinda kicks.
They were removed here, we movedthere and added here, added
there.
I completely agree with you thatany part of the foot should,
should be scoring.
And
Speaker 2 (24:11):
I guess that's easy to, to solve if, uh, WT agrees
with the placement of the sensoranswers as you explain.
That was a very, very extensiveand clarifying, um,
answer to how the system works.
We went all the way frommanufacturing all the way to the
socks.
Um, well, that's how the systemwe have now.
Maybe can you tell us about yourplans for the future of pss?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Well, one of the main issues, uh, you know, with our
system maybe is communicationissues with the 2.4 GIZ system.
Uh, so we are going to, we'reactually developing on a
development stage of, uh, newgeneration.
(25:02):
And, uh, one of the things, um,I, I can tell you this because
obviously the other company hasalready made a presentation on
it.
Uh, we have developed a punchsystem, a punch sensor, which is
(25:23):
, um, with confirmation from thecorner judges, and you can only
score if you hit within acertain area of the vest, which
is at the front, um, around thechest.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, I saw some videos.
Saw some videos.
There's a little square, um, onthe vest where you are allowed
to punch.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah.
So we, you know, we believe thatthe punch should only score on
the, on a certain area if we, ifwe don't wanna make TaeKwonDo,
uh, kickboxing basically.
(26:13):
So we have developed that.
We have developed also, um, amotion tracking, motion tracking
as well, motion tracking systemwhere if you hit with the front
leg, it, it only gives you apercentage of the, of the full
(26:38):
power that should be scored.
If you, if you hit with the backleg, it, it gives you 100%, and
if you hit hit with a turningkick, it gives you 25% more.
So it, there still needs to, weneed to do some fine tuning on
(27:00):
that.
But basically the idea is thatathletes are gonna have it
easier to school when they, whenthey keep with a back leg, with
a back leg instead of the frontleg.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah.
I've mentioned, uh, in one ofthe episodes, early episodes of
these podcast that, uh, addinggyroscopes and, uh, uh, um, to
the, to the socks and to thevests would allow them to the
vest itself and the systemitself to automatically identify
turning kicks.
Um, and of course, the, whichone would be with the, with
(27:35):
those gyroscopes, we'll be ableto see if it's the foot hitting
the vest or the vest hitting thefoot, because most of the times
the easy score front leg kicksis because you're just stopping
the motion of the opponent.
So basically u using the energyof the opponent to stop it, not
to actually kick it.
And those are developments onthe sock sides.
How did you guys get into it?
You went to add changing thesocks and the ver how did you
(27:57):
guys do it?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
The socks changed.
Uh, the socks stayed the same.
We changed the best.
We added some sensors to it, soyou can exactly how many degrees
you were turning at what speed
Speaker 2 (28:15):
We have stop someone is, I'm sorry, someone wrong it,
he rang at the wrong door.
That's the problem when you'redoing the podcast from home
.
That's why I like to do it atnight.
(28:37):
Um,
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
So that's,
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, the socks, the socks we added sensor on the
best.
So it tells you exactly, um, howmany degrees you turn at what
speed, and obviously you canchange the parameters.
You can say you can allow it todetect the turn with a smaller
(29:09):
velocity, or, or you have onlydetect the, the term when it's
going at, at a certain speed.
And, uh, that's the part whereit needs a little bit of fine
tuning.
But I think we need to do like afield test and everything to
(29:32):
make sure that what develop ismade for TaeKwonDo and not
TaeKwonDo adapting always to ourtechnology.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Those are very big improvements.
We see, uh, a big step up induration three compared to
duration one and two.
The what about the helmet?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
The helmet, um, I'm going to be honest with you.
Okay.
Um, when you do the test in, ina lab, you know, with a foot
protector on your hand, as longas a foot protector can have
more sensors on it, then thehelmet will work almost 100%.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
So I guess the solution is, is right there.
So we have to convince worldTaeKwonDo to allow data to have
more, uh, sensors on the socks.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yep.
Um, the reason we didn't put asmany is that there were some
strange, uh, kicks coming fromthe Gen one that we, that
TaeKwonDo and data wanted toavoid.
So we didn't place as manysensors on the so of the foot,
(30:52):
for example, you know?
Mm-hmm.
or on, because,you know, there are some kicks
that there were, if, if we alloweverything to score, uh, any
cost, then you know, you, wewill go back to gen one.
And that's what people tr toldus to fix when we had gen one.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, thank you, Sam.
And yeah, and, uh, I think thisis a very interesting, uh,
explanation of on the system,especially, uh, opening our
appetite for the generationthree, especially the punches,
the scoring, all the technologyinvolved.
And me as a, a little bit of anerd, I'm looking forward to
seeing those in action.
(31:39):
We'll take a small break, andafter the break we'll talk about
, uh, what happened inGuadalajara and, uh, what we can
do to, to, to fix it and avoidit in the next competitions.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
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Speaker 1 (34:01):
You are listening to the TaeKwonDo podcast.
Now, back to your hosts, coachCaesar Valentien team and Peter
Nestler.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
So welcome back.
Here we are with, uh, Sam Parkfrom, uh, data International,
and we've been talking about thep s s systems, and in the last
two episodes, we've actuallymentioned a lot of the issues
with the World championships andyour scoring system.
That was really, reallymentioned a few times.
Can you share that?
What were the issues you guysfaced in gu?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Okay, so there is an actual report on the issues.
Um, we had redacted byTaeKwonDo.
Okay, so I'm not going read thewhole report to you.
It's confidential, but I'mactually, so first of all, I
(35:06):
like to apologize to any teamsor athletes who were affected by
the problem problems we had anddidn't solve within the
reasonable time.
Uh, we are sorry, we're reallysorry.
We apologize.
We deeply apologize.
(35:27):
And we, we take anyresponsibility of what really
happened to the system.
Um, and we take our job veryserious.
Seriously.
We take, um, the, the matchesand the whole competitions
(35:47):
really, really, reallyseriously.
And because it's our job, we, wehave to do our best so that the
sport survives.
It's good for us, it's good foreverybody.
So again, really sorry for whathappened if, uh, there are any
teams that were affected by it.
(36:12):
Um, so going through the actualreport, ok.
Um, one of the things that wehave to mention is that the
system had been tested for two,two days before, two or three
(36:34):
days before the competition,before the actual competition
actually started.
And there was, they were workingcorrectly.
There was no problem with thecommunications, obviously the
was empty.
There was nobody there, therewas no audience, there was
nothing.
So during the first, during thepreparation days, we faced
(37:01):
absolutely no issues.
So I can confidently say thatthere was no any, there was
nothing within the venue, uh,from the beginning that could
(37:21):
affect our system.
People say, could it be the, thehumidity from the pool?
Could it be, uh, there a, anantenna nearby?
There was nothing literally onthe preparation days and on, on
the test.
When came, when before WorldChampionships, there was, we, we
(37:47):
test, we tested everything, andit was working almost perfectly.
Uh, also every day our staff wastesting the, the vests and the
head to make sure that there wasno broken equipment and entering
the field of play.
So every day they were hittingand testing every single piece
(38:10):
of equipment and making surethat every nothing was broken.
And if it was broken, it wasfixed.
And if it couldn't be fixed, itwas put away.
That's how we worked during thewhole week of the World
Championships.
Uh, the competition issues.
Okay, um, one part of the compof the issues we had were human
(38:38):
errors.
So, uh, on, uh, on two matches,on two matches in day one, one
of the computers had the PSSbasically disabled.
(39:00):
It was put on manual mode to dosome testings with the IVR
system, with the O V R.
And it was actually, it was leftlike that because, um, well, it
(39:22):
was left like that because of amistake.
We, we should have checked itagain, but, um, our staff
didn't.
So basically that made the onmatch two 15 and two 16 on day
one, uh, we had that issue thatthere was no point scoring at
(39:43):
all.
And we, that, that testing, itwasn't done in the morning.
It was done at lunchtime.
So in the morning it was workingwell.
And in, in the after lunch break, that's when, uh, we saw that
(40:03):
there was a, a problem with a,with a, with a software.
And that was fixed.
It was late, but it was fixed.
And, and people misunderstood.
And they thought that it was allday working like that, but it
(40:23):
wasn't.
It was only one, one area.
So court number two, only in twomatches after lunch.
And also another one of theerrors, another human error we
had is, um, the volunteers.
(40:45):
They were, they were changingthe volunteers every, every
session and continuously movingvolunteers from one place to
another.
So we trained every day.
We had to train new volunteersto put the transmitters in the
(41:06):
vest and the head.
And there was, I think, onematch on before where the
volunteers put the transmittersin the wrong colors.
Even though they had stickerswith their colors and everything
, they, because there's always,there was always new volunteers
(41:29):
coming in without any knowledgeon how do this, uh, job, they
did a mistake.
And then, you know, there was a,a match, which was match three
15, where they put red and bluein the opposite color,
Speaker 2 (41:46):
But that you can see during the test.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, but nobody saw no
Speaker 2 (41:52):
then It's not
only there to blame, it's also
the coaches, the players, thereferee.
There's a lot of people that
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Were, yeah, yeah, it's, um, get confused during
the test, you know.
Um, but anyway, uh, our staff,uh, didn't pay enough attention,
I guess.
And, and you know, there's ageneral confusion on whether it
(42:19):
should be the blue or the redone coming up when you kick the
blue.
Of course, when you kick theblue,
Speaker 2 (42:25):
The blue should, should light up.
Yes,
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Should, should say.
Okay.
Um, then we had the, some systemerrors.
Okay.
Uh, I'm gonna be really, reallyfrank about what happened with
court number three in day oneand court number four.
(42:51):
On day two, we, we had, weactually prepared the Olympic
system.
Um, so basically working inanother, in another frequency,
we had prepared maybe five, no,was it five competition areas?
(43:15):
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
, and of course thetransmitters and everything.
Uh, transmitters and receiverswere different, but the wholes
and headgears were the, were thesame.
So, um, when we were using it on, uh, as a test, we're hitting,
(43:44):
the headgear was working well.
Uh, there is a 0.5 second delay,just like in Tokyo, Olympic and
Paralympic games.
There is a five second delay onthe headgear, which is something
we're working on.
But, uh, there was a problem inthe coding of the, of the
(44:09):
receiver that made all thevalues of the, of the vest only
go up percent.
What it should be.
We could happen, we, we didn't,our staff, they're, they're not
(44:35):
developers.
Developers are in the States,right?
So we thought there's no,there's no problem with the,
with the vests and head care,because we test them every day.
So when they were saying thatthey're not scoring, they're not
scoring, uh, we thought it wasthe the best.
(44:59):
So we changed the best.
And when you do the test, youknow, even the minimum value
will say, okay, so the test wasfine, but then during the match,
the points were not scoring.
Cause they're only scoring up to30% of what they should normally
score, right?
Mm-hmm.
.
So with one click, instead ofhaving 20 gig level, you have
(45:24):
six.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yes.
A big difference.
Yes.
Because it doesn't say if theydon't score with the threshold
necessary, um, the systemdoesn't recognize, doesn't
recognize the contact, butdoesn't recognize it as enough
contact threshold, uh, a contactpower to, to open the, to reach
a threshold that it's needed toscore a point.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
So basically we, we found outthat issue.
So on day one, we put the systemand then, um, we took it out.
Basically, we weren't feelingvery, very confident about it,
but we, we hadn't found out thatthere was a problem with the,
(46:11):
with the heat level.
Cause there were, we didn't doas many matches for us to
realize.
And it wasn't a problem that wewere aware of because we thought
if we're testing the vest everyday before we send them out to
the, to the organization, thenwhy would there be a problem
(46:34):
with the vest with thesensitivity of the vest, right?
Mm-hmm.
.
So we, it, it was a, it was anew problem for us.
Uh, it was an unknown issue.
Um, and on, on day three, on onday two, that's when we found
out that the, the Olympic systemwas not giving right heat level
(47:01):
for the body protector, the vest.
So we took it out.
And on day three, we actuallysolved the issue during the day,
and after we solved it, westarted implementing one area to
, and, and then expanding tofour areas.
(47:23):
The reason why we work so hardto put the, the Olympic system
and not the usual two, four gigsystem, is that from day one,
we're having not many issues,but we're having some issues
with connectivity and wasnervous on, uh, on the wireless
(47:55):
communication performance of thetwo, four on, we have issues
with connectivity and on as well.
That's when we, we really pushedto use the Olympic system, um,
(48:19):
and that's the day we actuallyfixed it, and we, so we could
implement it on day four.
Um, on the actual report of, youknow, after checking all, all
the videos of all the matches,you can see we had some issues,
(48:41):
but the, our response to thoseissues are usually, usually
pretty fast.
Okay.
So you can actually see whichmatch had which problem, right.
(49:05):
And there's not, there's not abig list of matches that have
problems, if you know what Imean?
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Yes, yes.
I was there, uh, and I, I saw, Isaw your staff, uh, always, uh,
next to the courts, fixing every, uh, connectivity, uh, issues,
immediately replacing equipmentthen when necessary, you guys
were right on top of it.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah.
So the issue we're having withAZ was, um, we were, when we,
when we turned off ourequipment, we could still see a
(49:50):
strong signal on the channel wewere using.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
So you understand that?
You think that's manipulation,external manipulation?
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Well, I, I really have no proof.
Okay.
It's, it's a way to, it's a wayto explain it, but I wouldn't
put my hand proof signal inwhere there should be no signal
(50:30):
and cause of, of the number ofwifi networks and hot personal
hotspots from, from other, allthe teams.
And everything is the only, isthe only channel we can use,
which is, which was empty, right?
(50:51):
So during the preparation days,it was empty, and from day one
to day seven, you could stillsee the signal, even when we
turn off our equipment, you know, and we usually don't find
these kind signals in, inchampionships.
(51:12):
So, and I
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Know some teams took their own psss with them for
practice.
Uh, could that be the, theissue?
Speaker 3 (51:18):
No, they were, they were quite far.
The, the ones that they hadtheir own pss, they were maybe
on the, on the warmup area.
Right,
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Okay.
That's, uh, even outside of thevenue.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Yeah.
So that, that couldn't, thatcould never be an issue.
But, you know, it was somethingthat we couldn't explain because
we, we couldn't go througheverybody's bags or, you know,
.
I understand that our systemshould be working even if
(51:52):
there's something, and that'swhat we're working on.
We know our vulnerabilities, butalso it's not understandable
that we had that strange signalfrom not even from day minus one
.
It's from day one to day seven.
(52:14):
So even if it wasn't, um,someone trying to manipulate our
system, there was somethingwhich was causing interferences
in areas four and five.
Okay.
And that's, that's what led usto, uh, push to use the, the
(52:39):
Olympic system because, you know, it's much harder to, to
interfere with, uh, in a, in afrequency when you don't have
the same equipment, right?
So, yeah.
(52:59):
Um, that was one of the, the,the biggest issues we've had.
There's, uh, as I told you,there's a, a list of matches
that had these problems, butit's not a big list.
Maybe it's four or five matchesin total.
(53:21):
The big issue is that we lostthe trust of all coaches, and
between the coaches, you know,anything that they saw and
didn't like, they, they said,you know, it's a system's fault.
(53:43):
We, we shouldn't be using asystem that's failing, blah,
blah, blah.
Um, I just want to remind peoplethat we have been Olympic for
the last 10 years, so all theOlympic games and, and many
Continental, we used our systemwith no big issues.
(54:10):
And this time, you know, ifthere wasn't, if there wasn't
something or someone trying tointerfere on purpose, there was
still something interfering withthe system.
And, and that led to, you know,many, many, maybe too many,
(54:38):
right?
Mm-hmm.
, maybe too manyerrors, uh, on the, on the field
of play,
Speaker 2 (54:45):
To be honest.
It was not only the pss, therewas also issues with video
replay.
There was issues with the, um,implementation of the rules.
So you are not the guys to blamefor the mistakes that happen,
especially on the first three,four days.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
Um, that's something that I wanted, I I wanted to
comment.
We talked before about, you know, the change of the rules and
how, how you could now ask for,uh, video replay, right?
When, whenever there's a kick onthe face, but or on the, on the,
on the head and the PSS didn'tscore then.
(55:24):
So from many, from many watching, a lot of them, the final
(55:46):
decision was maybe differentfrom what I would've given,
don't wrote down the matchnumbers in when I, first of all,
(56:24):
the frame rate wasn't the best.
So there were some parts whereyou to was no frame in between
that captured the moment of thetouch, but most of them I
(56:47):
wouldn't have given, forexample, when they're hitting
with their shin instead of theirfoot, right,
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Exactly.
Because it's not an allowed, uh,contact area.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
Exactly.
It's not an allowed contact area.
But even then they, they weregiving them, you know, they were
giving the, the, the videoreplace accepting them.
The acceptance rate of the wholechampionship is almost 50%.
You know, when before theacceptance rate of the video
(57:23):
wasn't so high, I think that ledto a lot of people thinking that
the headgear wasn't working.
Of course, there were some hitsthat didn't score because we had
communication issues, notbecause the head wasn't scoring,
(57:43):
you know what I mean?
Head was score was registering,but it wasn't sending the, the
point to the computer because wehave connectivity issues, you
know?
Speaker 2 (57:58):
I understand.
Mm-hmm.
Any other big issues you foundout?
Speaker 3 (58:04):
Made us look like they were not working?
Because video were acceptingalmost everything the first few
days
Speaker 2 (58:14):
Know to be, to, to be fair, if the helmet registers
the score, but it doesn'ttransmit it, it is an equipment
issue,
Speaker 3 (58:21):
Of course, of course.
Which was solved when used areasthat was solved.
So
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Any other big issues that you found, uh, that you're
facing gu?
Speaker 3 (58:41):
Um, there was, uh, maybe two when the report, when
the, when, when what it says inthe report of, of TaeKwonDo
(59:07):
regarding Phantom Points, therewere maybe two matches with
Phantom points.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
Mm-hmm.
, phantom points.
For those who don't know, it'swhen the point shows up, but
there was no registered contact.
Speaker 3 (59:25):
Yeah.
The rest, they, they said therewas no kick, but there was a
kick.
And the camera doesn't capturethe exact moment of the touch,
but it registered the point.
So, uh, you know,
Speaker 2 (59:44):
So it's not really a PTO point, it's just a, a camera
issue.
Speaker 3 (59:49):
Yeah.
And then maybe perception issue,you think it didn't score, but,
you know, um, apart from that,you know,
Speaker 2 (59:59):
Oh, that's, we haven't, It's an extended list
and extensive, and I actuallythank you very much for going
through it because it clarifiesall the questions we had, uh,
from these world championships.
And if the, if you still haveany questions, I can always ask
the listeners to leave somecomments on, uh, Instagram.
We are reading it every day.
We, we didn't reply to everycomment, so thank you, Sam, for,
(01:00:21):
uh, facing the issues with that,uh, that you actually had in
Guadalajara and explaining it tous.
Um, is there anything else youwould like to share with us
about other plans, newtechnology and equipment we
might expect to see in the nextmonth?
Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Well, hopefully we will come up with a, with the
Gen three, maybe by March orApril, and hopefully we'll be
able to test in on, on the fieldin a junior open championship,
(01:01:00):
or we still have to, you know,see what we can do or we cannot
do.
But, uh, as far as I know, we'renot allowed to test the Gentry
on a senior, uh, G rankchampionship, so we'll probably
(01:01:25):
have to first a junior and thatit's working.
Then hopefully we'll haveapproval, uh, for, for us to use
it in a, in a senior openchampionships.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
You've, uh, also acquired some companies and you
have some other equipment.
Are, are they gonna be launchedto the public?
Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Um, we, we are, we have, we found a partner to do
IVR with, uh, IP cameras.
So a relatively cheap, uh, IVRsystem with, uh, 20 frame frames
(01:02:21):
per second.
And with a software especiallymade for TaeKwonDo ivr,
Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
For those who don't know, the normal, the normal
frame rate for television, uh,will be between, uh, 25 and 30
frames per second, and cellphones will be around 60 frames
per second.
So having a 120 frames persecond is a very high resolution
in terms of, uh, the speed ofthe image captured and the
quality of the image.
Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Mm-hmm.
, so we'll havemaybe under two cameras, maybe
under 4,000 euros.
And, you know, I say relativelycheap because other IV systems
(01:03:13):
that are specifically made for,uh, TaeKwonDo, they require, you
know, buying the software, whichis a license, and then buying
the cameras and, you know, allthe cameras in the end, they end
up costing around six to 8,000in total, including the, the
(01:03:38):
system.
But we'll have everything, uh,almost a, a plug and play system
that will be connected to ourtkri software to be able to see,
uh, and tag all the, all the,all the points and the, and
(01:04:01):
everything IV replace screen.
Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
That's a very interesting, uh, uh, technical
solution.
And we'll also consider reusingit for, uh, um, integration with
other softwares.
For example, I use monitoringsystems that also do video
analysis.
Will, uh, you have the, uh,options to export the tagging or
the time codes and all thesethings directly?
Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
Yeah, that's, um, as long as we get a formal request,
we can have a look at it anddevelop for, develop anything to
meet the needs of our customers.
Of course.
Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
That's a very interesting, uh, development,
uh, especially with integrationwith the TK Strike.
Uh, any other new technology youexpect to see?
Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Um, maybe not within the next few months, but, uh,
we're also working on O V R.
Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
O V R is the on value results management system.
Basically it's the tournamentmanagement systems, the software
registration management of, uh,file match list and publication
of results.
Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Yeah, so we're currently working on VR system
that make available to as manypeople as possible.
Um, we'll make it affordable andwe'll make it easy to use so
(01:05:47):
organizers can have, they canhave access to, to an system
that actually works and is easyto work with, basically.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
So new generations invests video replace systems,
uh, venue management systems.
I think deto comes up with a oneone-stop shop for organizing
tournaments.
That is, uh, something we'relooking forward to.
Um, thank you, Sam.
It was a pleasure being herewith you and with everyone who
is listening, this was theTaeKwonDo podcast.
(01:06:19):
If you haven't already, listento our other episodes that are
available wherever you listen toyour podcasts.
We are releasing new episodesevery Tuesday.
Stay tuned to subscribe to thepodcast, leave us a positive
review and share to yourfriends.
See you next year.
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
You've been listening to the TaeKwonDo podcast,
keeping the fans, coaches, andhigh performance athletes up to
date with the latest news andtrends on Olympic TaeKwonDo.
Your host coach Caesar Valentiteam has almost 20 years of
experience with high performanceTaeKwonDo and has worked all
around the world as a TaeKwonDotrainer.
Peter Nestler has been teachingTaeKwonDo for more than 20
(01:06:57):
years, and he's currently one ofthe top referees in Europe.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
Make sure to like rate andreview, and we'll be back soon.
But in the meantime, find us onInstagram at TaeKwonDo podcast
on Facebook at TaeKwonDo castand the website TaeKwonDo
podcast.com.
See you next time.
Have you been looking for a TaeKwonDo podcast with
qualified people who know whatthey're talking about, who help
you keep up with everythinggoing on in the TaeKwonDo world?
Well, you found it.
This is the TaeKwonDo podcast,TaeKwonDo News Competitions and
other events, training andsports science, keeping the
(00:23):
fans, coaches, and highperformance athletes Up today
with the latest news and trendson Olympic TaeKwonDo.
Let's do this.
This is the TaeKwonDo podcast.
And now your hosts Coach CesarValenti team and Peter Nestle.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello and welcome to the Tedo Podcast.
We're a podcast based Austria inEnglish language.
For everyone out there who likesthe, in this episode, we talk
with Sam Park Manager from DataInternational.
(01:07):
Welcome to our podcast.
I'm Coser with me, Sam Park.
Hi Sam, how are you?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Hello.
I'm good.
I am right now in freezing Korea.
We're under under 10 DegreesCentre, but, uh, yeah, just
enjoying the cool weather andthe Christmas Times.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, for as a disclaimer, I would like to say
that the Teo Podcast has nocommercial relationship with
Dedo.
We're not sponsored by Dedo.
We don't own, uh, any money.
It was no, uh, commercial orgift exchange for this podcast.
Myself has a club, of course,I'm a client of Data
International and, uh, localdata shops, but that's as far as
our business relationship goes.
(01:54):
Uh, for everyone listening.
Uh, Sam, could you please tellus a bit about yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, so, uh, I am the son of the c e o and founder
of the company Data.
Um, I was born and raised inSpain.
I have a degree in internationalbusiness, and I have been
working in the company since asa technician for the PSS and
(02:25):
thousand.
I have been doing more officework and, uh, being more on the
product development side and theday-to-day management of the
company.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Oh, I would like to thank you for your time to have
a conversation with me on thispodcast.
It's a bit different to have oneof our many chats in private and
have the entire world listeningto on it, but it's, I think many
people are interested in knowingsome more stuff about Dedo.
My first tough question is, howdo you say the name of your
company?
Dedo or?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes.
Um, it seems like it's a globalcon confusion, right?
Um, it's actually pronounced is,it's actually two words, um,
from Korean, which is like whenyou say some, something is great
(03:24):
or big, and though, as you know,it's a path away, and basically
the name means the, the greatway or the great path.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, that's answer the question pretty well.
It's interesting to know thatthere is actually a
philosophical background on thename.
Um, I'm from Portugal, so Dedois from Next Door, Spain.
We have known your company allmy life.
So can you tell us how thecompany actually started?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yes.
Uh, my father, he moved to Spainin 1981, and for, uh, a bit more
than two years, he had been, um,working somewhere else and he
saw, like, there was an openingin the market for TaeKwonDo,
(04:17):
basically.
Um, most of the Spanish, um,TaeKwonDo, uh, they were making
orders from Korea and they hadto the whole order and wait for
three months in order to, forthem to get some to Spain.
(04:40):
And he saw the quality, itwasn't that, uh, high, and he
thought, you know, I could makeit myself here in Spain and, uh,
I could serve my clients rightaway instead of having, instead
of them having to wait for threeor four months and being
(05:01):
uncertain whether it was gonnaget to them or not.
So in three, he, he some sewingmachines from, from South Korea,
and he started, he bought thefabric in Spain, and he started
(05:22):
making basic to look with whitecolor and black.
And he started selling them, uh,locally at some point there was
a World Championships, I thinkit's 1987, where, uh, he was,
(05:46):
they did, was the, one of thesponsors of the, of the event.
And that's where the companyactually started to grow.
And in 92, in the Olympic Gamesin Barcelona, uh, there was the
official supplier of theTaeKwonDo equipment.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I re I remember those days.
Yeah.
I had, uh, yes, one of my, uh,early door box, uh, was actually
a special edition Barcelona Dedo.
We had the logo of the games
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yes.
And that, that's where actuallycompany became, uh, year
(06:43):
became a recognized company forWar Federation back then.
And, uh, yeah.
And after that, we just keptgrowing and expanding to other
sports like karate, judo and,and you know, some kofu, et
(07:04):
cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, you guys have a big assortment.
Your online shop is pretty big,and you have a wide range of
material from beginners to veryadvanced levels.
Actually, the, some of myplayers, uh, have the used in
the newest system, the door box,and the new equipment.
And it's, uh, it's impressive tosee the door book I had in the
(07:27):
1992 Barcelona.
The addition we made of cottonand what you see these days also
, uh, different materials,design quality of the equipment
is, um, yes, it's dedo.
It's known for, uh, being ahigh, high level and for most
national teams and professionalcompetitors using them.
(07:48):
Um, Dedo has also been involvedfor over a decade with the
development of electronicscoring systems, the famous pss,
the protective scoring systemsthat, uh, electronic and helm
vest and helmet that we see at,uh, Olympics and the, uh,
international competitions.
Uh, how did you get involved inthat?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well, um, it was, I think it was in eight, after the
Beijing Olympics, um, presidentdecided needed to implement
system for scoring.
And since then we had, uh, beenlooking for a partner to develop
(08:33):
the, the p the what's now calledpss.
But before, before the system,we had, uh, we have now we had
been working with, uh, anotherEuropean company, but that
system didn't, wasn't really,um,
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Up to the standard,
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yeah, up to the standards for TaeKwonDo.
You know, technology worked, butit didn't work for TaeKwonDo.
So tru thousand and nine, oryeah, 2009 or two eight that he
(09:21):
came up with a system and hepresented it to, to Walter
Federation.
And somebody actually introducedhim to my father because of
course he had the technology andwe had the infrastructure to be
(09:44):
able to produce, so manufactureand, and sell and market the
actual product.
So that's where, that's when wesigned a partnership.
And, uh, basically since then,we have been producing the PSS
(10:05):
ourselves and the developmentand all the new technologies
actually come from, from theUnited States, from San Jose.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
That's, uh, I remember having my first dedo
scoring systems in January, 2011when I bought my first ones, the
first generation one.
And then of course, in insidegeneration one, you would see
different, uh, progressions,different gen, smaller
generations and differentversions where you would notice
that they would have three dots,six dots, and then you would be
(10:38):
able to understand, uh, whichkind of, uh, alliteration of the
vests were coming out and theywere getting improved.
And then in 2016, we had the,the generation two is how is
this development done in termsof, I know we're getting very
much into technology, but it is,uh, what our podcast is all
about.
Um, the, the duration too.
(11:00):
There is of course a differentset of, uh, sensors, but also
the software is also beingdeveloped, and the software is
being developed a lot.
The rules changed, the, you guyshave to put up a new software
out there.
And in this year alone, I guesswe had a few different versions
of the software.
I've tried some better versions,and yeah, sometimes the version
that even the stable versionthat is outside is not the same
(11:22):
one used, uh, with the, at theLast World Championships.
Um, can you tell us how you guysdo it?
How is who, who developed thenthe software and how do you guys
came up with, uh, improving thevests, uh, so often?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Um, so answering to you first, uh, question about
the, how, how we start, how wedo the whole development of the
actual hard hardware.
Um, basically after WorldChampionships in Chile, um, of
(12:04):
course always on under highcriticism, we, we got a letter
from saying that we needed tochange a few things from our
system.
So basically back then they saidit was too easy to score, um,
and, uh, that we needed toimprove some certain points.
(12:30):
So,
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, remember at that time it was the, it was the
monkey kicks and the
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Scratches were, yeah, mm-hmm.
know, uh, honestly, personally,I think that that could have
been, uh, stopped by changingthe rules instead of us, you
know, having to adapt the systemto, to try to avoid those kind
(12:56):
of kicks.
But back then it was all aboutthe pss, all the pressure was on
, on us.
So we had to come up with a newsystem for the, the final, the
final in, by the end of 2015, Ithink it was in Mexico.
(13:18):
Uh, so we only had about threemonths.
We made maybe more than ahundred samples.
And we came up, we, we came upwith, um, with, uh, so, uh, that
(13:40):
actually reduced the number ofkicks scored by just tapping on
the, on the, on the pss.
So the kicks have to be harder,and, you know, you have to
really put in your weight intothe kicks, so it would actually
score.
(14:01):
And, uh, also we had develop newhardware in, like, in the
electronic side, so newtransmitters, new receivers, et
cetera.
And with that, we went to theMexico, and it was a, actually
the first time we were using itin a event.
(14:23):
But, um, since it was animprovement, uh, people had to
adapt, you know, but not manypeople are complaining about it
because they, they, they sawthat we were making an effort to
improve and to make the sportbetter by making the technology
(14:47):
being used in the sport better.
Um, so usually that's, that'show we go on with the develop
development.
We make the samples, we test, wemake the samples, again, we
test.
So we make around, um, maybe 150, 200 samples every time there
(15:10):
is a new development.
Uh, and we, we like to test iton the field.
We test it in the lab, we testit on the field, and we make
sure that it's a reliable beforewe start mass producing, making
it marketable, marketableproduct.
(15:32):
Um, on the other side, we havethe software, uh, you were
asking the software, how wedevelop it is basically world
TaeKwonDo, the, the ITdepartment.
Um, they give us some softwarespecifications and how we have
to change the functioning of the, of the software.
(15:59):
And with that, we work on it.
And once we have the softwareready, we test it and we look
for any bugs, and we go back andfix those bugs.
And then when we have somethingthat's actually kinda working,
(16:24):
and if we're in a rush to use itin a big championship or Grand
Prix or championship, as long asit, those bugs are not really a
big problem, right?
In the, in the competition, we,we just go with it.
If, if it's a big bug, then we adeveloper to change, make those
(16:47):
changes as fast as possible.
And then, uh, we usually,usually we come up with a
workable version by the time weneed to use it.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You've mentioned that , uh, the, the rules need to
change to adapt to the pss, butmost of the complaints we had
even here at this podcast isthat we think that technology
should be adapted to the rulesthat WT puts outside.
And then we've seen many timesthe rules, uh, fixing flaws in
the systems.
For example, every system outthere has an issue with the face
(17:21):
kicks, uh, because of coursethere's no sensors in the face.
We have, uh, problems that, uh,the, uh, headshots are many
times not scored, and we changethe rules this time.
We change them pretty well thisyear in 2022, and this is the
last podcast of 2022, um, that,uh, coaches can ask for.
The video will play again to theheadshots.
Do you think that, um, if thepss your brand and, uh, the
(17:46):
competitors would be, and, andof course they will better than
the, with the rules revert?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Well, um, one of the, one of the aftermath aftermaths
of a coach being able to ask forwhen there is a, when there's a
(18:17):
kick that looks like a head kickand it didn't score, um, is that
the referees, you know, thevideo jury on the screen might
think that there was a contact,right?
(18:38):
Mm-hmm.
to the headgear, but there wasno point.
They, they think, well, itactually looks like it's
touching.
They, they look for, for anotherangle, you can't really see.
They look for another angle.
You can't really see.
So, so they accept it, right?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
So is is that it looks like the head pss, so the
head guard is not workingbecause every time a coach ask
for an unclear head point, right?
(19:25):
If the jury doesn't see veryclearly and thinks and assumed
there was a, there was animpact, they will give the
point.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah.
Most of the times we know thatit's, um, even the foot touching
the head, it didn't touch withthe sensor part of the sensor
feet.
So the, as, as you know, thefeet has, uh, some socks with
some sensors, but there's noteverywhere in the foot there
that their sensors are, uh,attached to.
And sometimes you hit with apart of the foot that doesn't
(20:00):
have sensors.
So we do understand that inthose cases, it's, um, the point
doesn't come up.
Um, uh, that's a little bit, uh,situation that has to, to do
with the development of theplacement of the sensors in the,
in the feet or the kind oftechnique used.
Most players know where thesensors are, they know which
kind of techniques they score,so they adapt the techniques to
(20:20):
scoring in the PSS system.
But, uh, again, psss havedifferent systems.
And when you touch, uh, somewith some data system, um, on
the vest or on the helmet with,uh, some parts of the foot, it
will score.
Others will not.
Um, it's, uh, of course withother brands, it's different.
So the players end up adaptingto the system they're using to
(20:41):
how they actually kick.
Um, that's something that is thereality of the sport.
It happens with the, uh, withthe TaeKwonDo, and it's
something that has beencriticized a little bit, is that
, uh, we are not standardized interms of the, how the systems
are out there each to make themain two brands that are, uh,
recognized.
They have, uh, very, verydifferent technologies.
(21:02):
And when you have to, to scorewith them, you have to adapt to
the technology.
And you don't see that in othersports.
It doesn't matter what kind of,uh, fussball football, um, uh,
brand, it's manufacturing, thefootball balls, they are all
with the same specifications.
You think that's gonna happenwith the, the Latin and they
make a standardization on, uh,on the scoring systems and make
(21:23):
you guys, uh, the differentbrands competing out there to,
to produce similar products?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Well, it's pretty simple for us.
The issue, you talk about thefoot, uh, sensors, um, basically
it's was telling us where to putthose sensors day.
Mm-hmm.
When we showed them, look, thisis the, the placement.
(21:53):
They say, you know, add this.
No, remove that or add one morehere, add one more there.
That's, that's how we work.
We don't usually come up withsomething and say, no, this is
it, and you have to go with it.
We adapt to whatever Walter says.
Um, when it comes tostandardization of this, of, of
(22:14):
the pss, you know, there's somerules, right?
There's some rules saying thatwhen the foot, uh, under, under
the, the ankle, right?
Any, any area, any part of, ofthe foot under, under the ankle,
(22:35):
uh, touches the protected partof the truck or the head.
That's a point, right?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
So in the rules, there's a, there's a thing that
says a valid scoring area, right?
When the foot touches thatballet scoring area, which is
usually the color part of the,of the, of the vest, that's
where, where it actually canscore.
(23:12):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
And when we talk, for example, about the, the system,
the outer part of the foot, the
sensors on it.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah.
So it's, it's easy as justadding more, it's, it's what I'm
, what I'm saying.
When, when we ask, um, when weask Monte Kondo, you know, what
do you think about this?
What do you think about that?
Back in the day when we weredeveloping the gen, the gen two,
(23:44):
we put the sensors where theyare right now, because that's
where everyone believed theyshould be.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So right
Speaker 3 (23:55):
To, to avoid some kinda kicks.
They were removed here, we movedthere and added here, added
there.
I completely agree with you thatany part of the foot should,
should be scoring.
And
Speaker 2 (24:11):
I guess that's easy to, to solve if, uh, WT agrees
with the placement of the sensoranswers as you explain.
That was a very, very extensiveand clarifying, um,
answer to how the system works.
We went all the way frommanufacturing all the way to the
socks.
Um, well, that's how the systemwe have now.
Maybe can you tell us about yourplans for the future of pss?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Well, one of the main issues, uh, you know, with our
system maybe is communicationissues with the 2.4 GIZ system.
Uh, so we are going to, we'reactually developing on a
development stage of, uh, newgeneration.
(25:02):
And, uh, one of the things, um,I, I can tell you this because
obviously the other company hasalready made a presentation on
it.
Uh, we have developed a punchsystem, a punch sensor, which is
(25:23):
, um, with confirmation from thecorner judges, and you can only
score if you hit within acertain area of the vest, which
is at the front, um, around thechest.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, I saw some videos.
Saw some videos.
There's a little square, um, onthe vest where you are allowed
to punch.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah.
So we, you know, we believe thatthe punch should only score on
the, on a certain area if we, ifwe don't wanna make TaeKwonDo,
uh, kickboxing basically.
(26:13):
So we have developed that.
We have developed also, um, amotion tracking, motion tracking
as well, motion tracking systemwhere if you hit with the front
leg, it, it only gives you apercentage of the, of the full
(26:38):
power that should be scored.
If you, if you hit with the backleg, it, it gives you 100%, and
if you hit hit with a turningkick, it gives you 25% more.
So it, there still needs to, weneed to do some fine tuning on
(27:00):
that.
But basically the idea is thatathletes are gonna have it
easier to school when they, whenthey keep with a back leg, with
a back leg instead of the frontleg.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah.
I've mentioned, uh, in one ofthe episodes, early episodes of
these podcast that, uh, addinggyroscopes and, uh, uh, um, to
the, to the socks and to thevests would allow them to the
vest itself and the systemitself to automatically identify
turning kicks.
Um, and of course, the, whichone would be with the, with
(27:35):
those gyroscopes, we'll be ableto see if it's the foot hitting
the vest or the vest hitting thefoot, because most of the times
the easy score front leg kicksis because you're just stopping
the motion of the opponent.
So basically u using the energyof the opponent to stop it, not
to actually kick it.
And those are developments onthe sock sides.
How did you guys get into it?
You went to add changing thesocks and the ver how did you
(27:57):
guys do it?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
The socks changed.
Uh, the socks stayed the same.
We changed the best.
We added some sensors to it, soyou can exactly how many degrees
you were turning at what speed
Speaker 2 (28:15):
We have stop someone is, I'm sorry, someone wrong it,
he rang at the wrong door.
That's the problem when you'redoing the podcast from home
That's why I like to do it atnight.
(28:37):
Um,
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
So that's,
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, the socks, the socks we added sensor on the
best.
So it tells you exactly, um, howmany degrees you turn at what
speed, and obviously you canchange the parameters.
You can say you can allow it todetect the turn with a smaller
(29:09):
velocity, or, or you have onlydetect the, the term when it's
going at, at a certain speed.
And, uh, that's the part whereit needs a little bit of fine
tuning.
But I think we need to do like afield test and everything to
(29:32):
make sure that what develop ismade for TaeKwonDo and not
TaeKwonDo adapting always to ourtechnology.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Those are very big improvements.
We see, uh, a big step up induration three compared to
duration one and two.
The what about the helmet?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
The helmet, um, I'm going to be honest with you.
Okay.
Um, when you do the test in, ina lab, you know, with a foot
protector on your hand, as longas a foot protector can have
more sensors on it, then thehelmet will work almost 100%.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
So I guess the solution is, is right there.
So we have to convince worldTaeKwonDo to allow data to have
more, uh, sensors on the socks.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yep.
Um, the reason we didn't put asmany is that there were some
strange, uh, kicks coming fromthe Gen one that we, that
TaeKwonDo and data wanted toavoid.
So we didn't place as manysensors on the so of the foot,
(30:52):
for example, you know?
Mm-hmm.
that there were, if, if we alloweverything to score, uh, any
cost, then you know, you, wewill go back to gen one.
And that's what people tr toldus to fix when we had gen one.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, thank you, Sam.
And yeah, and, uh, I think thisis a very interesting, uh,
explanation of on the system,especially, uh, opening our
appetite for the generationthree, especially the punches,
the scoring, all the technologyinvolved.
And me as a, a little bit of anerd, I'm looking forward to
seeing those in action.
(31:39):
We'll take a small break, andafter the break we'll talk about
, uh, what happened inGuadalajara and, uh, what we can
do to, to, to fix it and avoidit in the next competitions.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
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Speaker 1 (34:01):
You are listening to the TaeKwonDo podcast.
Now, back to your hosts, coachCaesar Valentien team and Peter
Nestler.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
So welcome back.
Here we are with, uh, Sam Parkfrom, uh, data International,
and we've been talking about thep s s systems, and in the last
two episodes, we've actuallymentioned a lot of the issues
with the World championships andyour scoring system.
That was really, reallymentioned a few times.
Can you share that?
What were the issues you guysfaced in gu?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Okay, so there is an actual report on the issues.
Um, we had redacted byTaeKwonDo.
Okay, so I'm not going read thewhole report to you.
It's confidential, but I'mactually, so first of all, I
(35:06):
like to apologize to any teamsor athletes who were affected by
the problem problems we had anddidn't solve within the
reasonable time.
Uh, we are sorry, we're reallysorry.
We apologize.
We deeply apologize.
(35:27):
And we, we take anyresponsibility of what really
happened to the system.
Um, and we take our job veryserious.
Seriously.
We take, um, the, the matchesand the whole competitions
(35:47):
really, really, reallyseriously.
And because it's our job, we, wehave to do our best so that the
sport survives.
It's good for us, it's good foreverybody.
So again, really sorry for whathappened if, uh, there are any
teams that were affected by it.
(36:12):
Um, so going through the actualreport, ok.
Um, one of the things that wehave to mention is that the
system had been tested for two,two days before, two or three
(36:34):
days before the competition,before the actual competition
actually started.
And there was, they were workingcorrectly.
There was no problem with thecommunications, obviously the
was empty.
There was nobody there, therewas no audience, there was
nothing.
So during the first, during thepreparation days, we faced
(37:01):
absolutely no issues.
So I can confidently say thatthere was no any, there was
nothing within the venue, uh,from the beginning that could
(37:21):
affect our system.
People say, could it be the, thehumidity from the pool?
Could it be, uh, there a, anantenna nearby?
There was nothing literally onthe preparation days and on, on
the test.
When came, when before WorldChampionships, there was, we, we
(37:47):
test, we tested everything, andit was working almost perfectly.
Uh, also every day our staff wastesting the, the vests and the
head to make sure that there wasno broken equipment and entering
the field of play.
So every day they were hittingand testing every single piece
(38:10):
of equipment and making surethat every nothing was broken.
And if it was broken, it wasfixed.
And if it couldn't be fixed, itwas put away.
That's how we worked during thewhole week of the World
Championships.
Uh, the competition issues.
Okay, um, one part of the compof the issues we had were human
(38:38):
errors.
So, uh, on, uh, on two matches,on two matches in day one, one
of the computers had the PSSbasically disabled.
(39:00):
It was put on manual mode to dosome testings with the IVR
system, with the O V R.
And it was actually, it was leftlike that because, um, well, it
(39:22):
was left like that because of amistake.
We, we should have checked itagain, but, um, our staff
didn't.
So basically that made the onmatch two 15 and two 16 on day
one, uh, we had that issue thatthere was no point scoring at
(39:43):
all.
And we, that, that testing, itwasn't done in the morning.
It was done at lunchtime.
So in the morning it was workingwell.
And in, in the after lunch break, that's when, uh, we saw that
(40:03):
there was a, a problem with a,with a, with a software.
And that was fixed.
It was late, but it was fixed.
And, and people misunderstood.
And they thought that it was allday working like that, but it
(40:23):
wasn't.
It was only one, one area.
So court number two, only in twomatches after lunch.
And also another one of theerrors, another human error we
had is, um, the volunteers.
(40:45):
They were, they were changingthe volunteers every, every
session and continuously movingvolunteers from one place to
another.
So we trained every day.
We had to train new volunteersto put the transmitters in the
(41:06):
vest and the head.
And there was, I think, onematch on before where the
volunteers put the transmittersin the wrong colors.
Even though they had stickerswith their colors and everything
, they, because there's always,there was always new volunteers
(41:29):
coming in without any knowledgeon how do this, uh, job, they
did a mistake.
And then, you know, there was a,a match, which was match three
15, where they put red and bluein the opposite color,
Speaker 2 (41:46):
But that you can see during the test.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, but nobody saw no
Speaker 2 (41:52):
the coaches, the players, thereferee.
There's a lot of people that
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Were, yeah, yeah, it's, um, get confused during
the test, you know.
Um, but anyway, uh, our staff,uh, didn't pay enough attention,
I guess.
And, and you know, there's ageneral confusion on whether it
(42:19):
should be the blue or the redone coming up when you kick the
blue.
Of course, when you kick theblue,
Speaker 2 (42:25):
The blue should, should light up.
Yes,
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Should, should say.
Okay.
Um, then we had the, some systemerrors.
Okay.
Uh, I'm gonna be really, reallyfrank about what happened with
court number three in day oneand court number four.
(42:51):
On day two, we, we had, weactually prepared the Olympic
system.
Um, so basically working inanother, in another frequency,
we had prepared maybe five, no,was it five competition areas?
(43:15):
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, transmitters and receiverswere different, but the wholes
and headgears were the, were thesame.
So, um, when we were using it on, uh, as a test, we're hitting,
(43:44):
the headgear was working well.
Uh, there is a 0.5 second delay,just like in Tokyo, Olympic and
Paralympic games.
There is a five second delay onthe headgear, which is something
we're working on.
But, uh, there was a problem inthe coding of the, of the
(44:09):
receiver that made all thevalues of the, of the vest only
go up percent.
What it should be.
We could happen, we, we didn't,our staff, they're, they're not
(44:35):
developers.
Developers are in the States,right?
So we thought there's no,there's no problem with the,
with the vests and head care,because we test them every day.
So when they were saying thatthey're not scoring, they're not
scoring, uh, we thought it wasthe the best.
(44:59):
So we changed the best.
And when you do the test, youknow, even the minimum value
will say, okay, so the test wasfine, but then during the match,
the points were not scoring.
Cause they're only scoring up to30% of what they should normally
score, right?
Mm-hmm.
So with one click, instead ofhaving 20 gig level, you have
(45:24):
six.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yes.
A big difference.
Yes.
Because it doesn't say if theydon't score with the threshold
necessary, um, the systemdoesn't recognize, doesn't
recognize the contact, butdoesn't recognize it as enough
contact threshold, uh, a contactpower to, to open the, to reach
a threshold that it's needed toscore a point.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So basically we, we found outthat issue.
So on day one, we put the systemand then, um, we took it out.
Basically, we weren't feelingvery, very confident about it,
but we, we hadn't found out thatthere was a problem with the,
(46:11):
with the heat level.
Cause there were, we didn't doas many matches for us to
realize.
And it wasn't a problem that wewere aware of because we thought
if we're testing the vest everyday before we send them out to
the, to the organization, thenwhy would there be a problem
(46:34):
with the vest with thesensitivity of the vest, right?
Mm-hmm.
So we, it, it was a, it was anew problem for us.
Uh, it was an unknown issue.
Um, and on, on day three, on onday two, that's when we found
out that the, the Olympic systemwas not giving right heat level
(47:01):
for the body protector, the vest.
So we took it out.
And on day three, we actuallysolved the issue during the day,
and after we solved it, westarted implementing one area to
, and, and then expanding tofour areas.
(47:23):
The reason why we work so hardto put the, the Olympic system
and not the usual two, four gigsystem, is that from day one,
we're having not many issues,but we're having some issues
with connectivity and wasnervous on, uh, on the wireless
(47:55):
communication performance of thetwo, four on, we have issues
with connectivity and on as well.
That's when we, we really pushedto use the Olympic system, um,
(48:19):
and that's the day we actuallyfixed it, and we, so we could
implement it on day four.
Um, on the actual report of, youknow, after checking all, all
the videos of all the matches,you can see we had some issues,
(48:41):
but the, our response to thoseissues are usually, usually
pretty fast.
Okay.
So you can actually see whichmatch had which problem, right.
(49:05):
And there's not, there's not abig list of matches that have
problems, if you know what Imean?
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Yes, yes.
I was there, uh, and I, I saw, Isaw your staff, uh, always, uh,
next to the courts, fixing every, uh, connectivity, uh, issues,
immediately replacing equipmentthen when necessary, you guys
were right on top of it.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah.
So the issue we're having withAZ was, um, we were, when we,
when we turned off ourequipment, we could still see a
(49:50):
strong signal on the channel wewere using.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
So you understand that?
You think that's manipulation,external manipulation?
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Well, I, I really have no proof.
Okay.
It's, it's a way to, it's a wayto explain it, but I wouldn't
put my hand proof signal inwhere there should be no signal
(50:30):
and cause of, of the number ofwifi networks and hot personal
hotspots from, from other, allthe teams.
And everything is the only, isthe only channel we can use,
which is, which was empty, right?
(50:51):
So during the preparation days,it was empty, and from day one
to day seven, you could stillsee the signal, even when we
turn off our equipment, you know, and we usually don't find
these kind signals in, inchampionships.
(51:12):
So, and I
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Know some teams took their own psss with them for
practice.
Uh, could that be the, theissue?
Speaker 3 (51:18):
No, they were, they were quite far.
The, the ones that they hadtheir own pss, they were maybe
on the, on the warmup area.
Right,
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Okay.
That's, uh, even outside of thevenue.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Yeah.
So that, that couldn't, thatcould never be an issue.
But, you know, it was somethingthat we couldn't explain because
we, we couldn't go througheverybody's bags or, you know,
I understand that our systemshould be working even if
(51:52):
there's something, and that'swhat we're working on.
We know our vulnerabilities, butalso it's not understandable
that we had that strange signalfrom not even from day minus one
.
It's from day one to day seven.
(52:14):
So even if it wasn't, um,someone trying to manipulate our
system, there was somethingwhich was causing interferences
in areas four and five.
Okay.
And that's, that's what led usto, uh, push to use the, the
(52:39):
Olympic system because, you know, it's much harder to, to
interfere with, uh, in a, in afrequency when you don't have
the same equipment, right?
So, yeah.
(52:59):
Um, that was one of the, the,the biggest issues we've had.
There's, uh, as I told you,there's a, a list of matches
that had these problems, butit's not a big list.
Maybe it's four or five matchesin total.
(53:21):
The big issue is that we lostthe trust of all coaches, and
between the coaches, you know,anything that they saw and
didn't like, they, they said,you know, it's a system's fault.
(53:43):
We, we shouldn't be using asystem that's failing, blah,
blah, blah.
Um, I just want to remind peoplethat we have been Olympic for
the last 10 years, so all theOlympic games and, and many
Continental, we used our systemwith no big issues.
(54:10):
And this time, you know, ifthere wasn't, if there wasn't
something or someone trying tointerfere on purpose, there was
still something interfering withthe system.
And, and that led to, you know,many, many, maybe too many,
(54:38):
right?
Mm-hmm.
of play,
Speaker 2 (54:45):
To be honest.
It was not only the pss, therewas also issues with video
replay.
There was issues with the, um,implementation of the rules.
So you are not the guys to blamefor the mistakes that happen,
especially on the first three,four days.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
Um, that's something that I wanted, I I wanted to
comment.
We talked before about, you know, the change of the rules and
how, how you could now ask for,uh, video replay, right?
When, whenever there's a kick onthe face, but or on the, on the,
on the head and the PSS didn'tscore then.
(55:24):
So from many, from many watching, a lot of them, the final
(55:46):
decision was maybe differentfrom what I would've given,
don't wrote down the matchnumbers in when I, first of all,
(56:24):
the frame rate wasn't the best.
So there were some parts whereyou to was no frame in between
that captured the moment of thetouch, but most of them I
(56:47):
wouldn't have given, forexample, when they're hitting
with their shin instead of theirfoot, right,
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Exactly.
Because it's not an allowed, uh,contact area.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
Exactly.
It's not an allowed contact area.
But even then they, they weregiving them, you know, they were
giving the, the, the videoreplace accepting them.
The acceptance rate of the wholechampionship is almost 50%.
You know, when before theacceptance rate of the video
(57:23):
wasn't so high, I think that ledto a lot of people thinking that
the headgear wasn't working.
Of course, there were some hitsthat didn't score because we had
communication issues, notbecause the head wasn't scoring,
(57:43):
you know what I mean?
Head was score was registering,but it wasn't sending the, the
point to the computer because wehave connectivity issues, you
know?
Speaker 2 (57:58):
I understand.
Mm-hmm.
Any other big issues you foundout?
Speaker 3 (58:04):
Made us look like they were not working?
Because video were acceptingalmost everything the first few
days
Speaker 2 (58:14):
Know to be, to, to be fair, if the helmet registers
the score, but it doesn'ttransmit it, it is an equipment
issue,
Speaker 3 (58:21):
Of course, of course.
Which was solved when used areasthat was solved.
So
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Any other big issues that you found, uh, that you're
facing gu?
Speaker 3 (58:41):
Um, there was, uh, maybe two when the report, when
the, when, when what it says inthe report of, of TaeKwonDo
(59:07):
regarding Phantom Points, therewere maybe two matches with
Phantom points.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
Mm-hmm.
For those who don't know, it'swhen the point shows up, but
there was no registered contact.
Speaker 3 (59:25):
Yeah.
The rest, they, they said therewas no kick, but there was a
kick.
And the camera doesn't capturethe exact moment of the touch,
but it registered the point.
So, uh, you know,
Speaker 2 (59:44):
So it's not really a PTO point, it's just a, a camera
issue.
Speaker 3 (59:49):
Yeah.
And then maybe perception issue,you think it didn't score, but,
you know, um, apart from that,you know,
Speaker 2 (59:59):
Oh, that's, we haven't, It's an extended list
and extensive, and I actuallythank you very much for going
through it because it clarifiesall the questions we had, uh,
from these world championships.
And if the, if you still haveany questions, I can always ask
the listeners to leave somecomments on, uh, Instagram.
We are reading it every day.
We, we didn't reply to everycomment, so thank you, Sam, for,
(01:00:21):
uh, facing the issues with that,uh, that you actually had in
Guadalajara and explaining it tous.
Um, is there anything else youwould like to share with us
about other plans, newtechnology and equipment we
might expect to see in the nextmonth?
Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Well, hopefully we will come up with a, with the
Gen three, maybe by March orApril, and hopefully we'll be
able to test in on, on the fieldin a junior open championship,
(01:01:00):
or we still have to, you know,see what we can do or we cannot
do.
But, uh, as far as I know, we'renot allowed to test the Gentry
on a senior, uh, G rankchampionship, so we'll probably
(01:01:25):
have to first a junior and thatit's working.
Then hopefully we'll haveapproval, uh, for, for us to use
it in a, in a senior openchampionships.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
You've, uh, also acquired some companies and you
have some other equipment.
Are, are they gonna be launchedto the public?
Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Um, we, we are, we have, we found a partner to do
IVR with, uh, IP cameras.
So a relatively cheap, uh, IVRsystem with, uh, 20 frame frames
(01:02:21):
per second.
And with a software especiallymade for TaeKwonDo ivr,
Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
For those who don't know, the normal, the normal
frame rate for television, uh,will be between, uh, 25 and 30
frames per second, and cellphones will be around 60 frames
per second.
So having a 120 frames persecond is a very high resolution
in terms of, uh, the speed ofthe image captured and the
quality of the image.
Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Mm-hmm.
under 4,000 euros.
And, you know, I say relativelycheap because other IV systems
(01:03:13):
that are specifically made for,uh, TaeKwonDo, they require, you
know, buying the software, whichis a license, and then buying
the cameras and, you know, allthe cameras in the end, they end
up costing around six to 8,000in total, including the, the
(01:03:38):
system.
But we'll have everything, uh,almost a, a plug and play system
that will be connected to ourtkri software to be able to see,
uh, and tag all the, all the,all the points and the, and
(01:04:01):
everything IV replace screen.
Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
That's a very interesting, uh, uh, technical
solution.
And we'll also consider reusingit for, uh, um, integration with
other softwares.
For example, I use monitoringsystems that also do video
analysis.
Will, uh, you have the, uh,options to export the tagging or
the time codes and all thesethings directly?
Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
Yeah, that's, um, as long as we get a formal request,
we can have a look at it anddevelop for, develop anything to
meet the needs of our customers.
Of course.
Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
That's a very interesting, uh, development,
uh, especially with integrationwith the TK Strike.
Uh, any other new technology youexpect to see?
Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Um, maybe not within the next few months, but, uh,
we're also working on O V R.
Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
O V R is the on value results management system.
Basically it's the tournamentmanagement systems, the software
registration management of, uh,file match list and publication
of results.
Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Yeah, so we're currently working on VR system
that make available to as manypeople as possible.
Um, we'll make it affordable andwe'll make it easy to use so
(01:05:47):
organizers can have, they canhave access to, to an system
that actually works and is easyto work with, basically.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
So new generations invests video replace systems,
uh, venue management systems.
I think deto comes up with a oneone-stop shop for organizing
tournaments.
That is, uh, something we'relooking forward to.
Um, thank you, Sam.
It was a pleasure being herewith you and with everyone who
is listening, this was theTaeKwonDo podcast.
(01:06:19):
If you haven't already, listento our other episodes that are
available wherever you listen toyour podcasts.
We are releasing new episodesevery Tuesday.
Stay tuned to subscribe to thepodcast, leave us a positive
review and share to yourfriends.
See you next year.
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
You've been listening to the TaeKwonDo podcast,
keeping the fans, coaches, andhigh performance athletes up to
date with the latest news andtrends on Olympic TaeKwonDo.
Your host coach Caesar Valentiteam has almost 20 years of
experience with high performanceTaeKwonDo and has worked all
around the world as a TaeKwonDotrainer.
Peter Nestler has been teachingTaeKwonDo for more than 20
(01:06:57):
years, and he's currently one ofthe top referees in Europe.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
Make sure to like rate andreview, and we'll be back soon.
But in the meantime, find us onInstagram at TaeKwonDo podcast
on Facebook at TaeKwonDo castand the website TaeKwonDo
podcast.com.
See you next time.
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