June 16, 2022 • 30 mins
Lisa and Lauren chat with Noelle Imparato about how painting saved her life and her upcoming book that explains that process and provides insight into how creativity can help quiet your ego so you can have an honest conversation with yourself. Connect with Noelle and learn more about Painting For Life by emailing her at: noelleimparato@gmail.com
Learn more about the Take an Art Break Movement on the Art is Moving website here.
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Episode Transcript
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Lauren (00:01):
Hello, everybody.
Lisa (00:02):
We're back.
We're here.
We are really excited about ourconversation today.
We are with Noel.
Um, Noel, can you introduceyourself and tell our audience
who you are and, and why you dowhat you do?
Noelle (00:14):
Okay.
Oh, hi everybody.
And thank you, lo and Lisa for,uh, having me here tonight.
I'm really happy about that.
Um, I am NoeNoelll parato and,uh, I'm a little bit of a
Renaissance woman.
You might say.
I stopped, uh, studyingarchitecture and then film, and
then I I'm born in France, butthen I went to Hollywood.
(00:37):
I worked there for a while and Ihad all in my mind, some kinda a
life you might say that, uh, Iwanted to do something to wake
up people, you know, spirituallywake up people because I had
seen some documentary ontelevision of window and it had
(00:58):
such an impact on me when I was15 years old that I thought,
well, I really would like to beable to, I mean, I'm not
pretending to bere, but I wouldlike to do something that has an
impact on people.
And so I was not really able todo what I wanted with film.
(01:18):
So then somehow I landed into,uh, a therapy or processor
because it's not a therapy forpeople with really critically
mental problems.
It's more like coaching, youknow, it's more for people who
want to improve themselves, uh,to want to, uh, self transform
(01:38):
and wake up spiritually clean uppsychologically, you know, and
then also create, um, communityand with the pandemic, uh,
amazingly enough, you know, it'ssort of a worked out for us
because, uh, at first I wasthinking like, how can I do
thinking on zoom?
(01:58):
You know, mm-hmmand, but it turned out the
workshop that I lead, um,basically is very grounded in
zoom sharing or in sharing, Ishould say.
And, uh, we have a half hoursharing at the top and then
painting who people, uh, go athome and do that, uh, on their
(02:21):
own.
And then we have another halfhour at the ending where they
share.
So it all worked out thatcreated some kind of a community
that has been with me now forover two years.
And it has given us a chance toreally build up on, uh, more
than what I was doing before anduse the group community and what
(02:44):
I discovered they call the wespace and really kind of develop
that aspect.
Lisa (02:52):
Hmm.
Lauren (02:53):
Yeah.
So, um, you let, uh, Lisa, Ihave a sneak peek at your, um,
your book painting for life andit's, um, 40 portraits and sort
of divided into chapters and itfeels like a memoir it's like
memoir critique story timeline,and we got a chance to read it.
(03:15):
It was amazing.
Thank you for that opportunity.
Mm-hmm, it, itsparked the question that we
wanna ask you today, uh, whichis how did painting save your
life?
Noelle (03:28):
Well, painting came at a later time in my life.
As I say, even though as aarchitect student, uh, I had
learned how to draw and I alwaysloved art and painting a little
bit, but I never really had theinspiration, the discipline or
anything to do that.
And then by discovering thisapproach to painting that, uh, I
(03:53):
actually learned at the SLMInstitute in big south
California mm-hmmand, um, it was a painting
approach where you don't knowwhat you are going to do.
You are not doing a product.
Actually the, the teacher MichelKasu was always telling us the
product is none of yourbusiness.
(04:15):
.
I like that.
That was very much against allthe, the kind of a teaching that
they give you in school.
And what I discovered with thatis like, you can't have no
inspiration because basicallyyou are working from your
present moment, emotional statesand emotional memories and
(04:38):
thinking and all that, thatstuff.
But even as you go through thememories, it's always about
being present in the very momentand seeing the transformation of
the images and following with itin a very natural, spontaneous
way.
(04:59):
And what happened is that, Hey,I was able to sort of have a tic
experience, you know, which isthe first thing everybody has
when they want to paint withoutrestraint.
And I realized how much anger Iwas still carrying Because my
(05:20):
childhood, um, we might not wantto get too heavy into that, but
I had a lot of anger against mymother, especially.
And I mean, I'm pretty positive,kind of a person.
I laugh a lot.
Everybody think I'm not veryhappy and everything, but this
(05:40):
anger was still there and thenthink allowed me to reconnect
with it.
And just that in itself ishealing.
And then it also, the techniqueallowed me to sort of work with
it so that, uh, I can go beneathit.
I can see that even until suchanger, you might say there was
(06:05):
love and painting actuallypainted themselves.
You know, it's not me whodecided to do this or that, it
just kind of came up.
And then I look at the paintingand I see how I transformed
during the painting and my wageat the end of like, uh, took me
(06:26):
like that first painting took melike two, two or three days to
do, you know, and we wereworking three sessions a day
every day.
And so it was very intense work,but I started with a lot of
anger and I ended up with grace,
Lisa (06:43):
Grace.
Wow.
Grace.
Noelle (06:45):
Yeah.
A fabulous experience where,yeah, I felt like I had warm
honeyrunning down my spine.
Lisa (06:56):
Oh, I love that visualization.
What I, what I'm hearing is that, um, this process is you're
really playing or dancing withyour subconscious, right?
Mm.
And so how do you do that?
Because we're such, we're sotrained and condition not to
dance with our subconscious, youknow what I mean?
What, what is, how did you dothat?
(07:16):
You know,
Noelle (07:18):
Well, perhaps, uh, what helped me to be able to do that?
I think there are probably manydifferent factors, but for me
personally, there was a, I wasalready 40 years old or
something like that when Idiscovered this approach to
painting.
And I was a point in my lifewhere I was ready to feel like,
okay, you know, enough of thattrack, you know, I need to
(07:42):
change.
Right.
So there was a strong intentionin changing and transforming,
and that was, uh, sort ofsupported on top of it because I
quit my work in Hollywood.
And I enrolled that Pacificagraduate Institute, you know, uh
(08:02):
, to, in a department of, uh,mythology and depth psychology.
So we were Gul very heavily intoCarl Young psychology and the
Carl Young sort of, um, process,you know, of a shadow work, the
idea of shadow work, and thenthe idea of the archetype, the
(08:24):
myth and how psyche is image,you know?
And so I was writing mydissertation about the family
crisis, you know, and seeing itfrom the mythological sort of
point of view.
So I was sort of immersed into alot stories, a lot of theories,
(08:46):
a lot of personal research.
And, uh, then when I, I did,when I went to SN I didn't know
even what to expect, I had aweak ion and I looked at their
catalog and I said, uh, okay.
Out of the five, uh, workshopthey present every week, I
thought, oh, well, that soundslike fun.
(09:06):
You know, but then when I gotthere, so seven day workshop,
you know, very intense at theend, I was like, so transformed.
So, and, uh, you know,absolutely ecstatic about the
process.
And so I just decided rightaway, this is for me,
Lauren (09:29):
Love it, love it.
Yeah.
So, um, through, throughout yourbook, there's a, you know, you,
you dive extremely deep intoyour own personal story and are
very open it's.
Um, it's clear that you've done,you know, that dive deep work
and that the painting is almosttalking to you, as you're
(09:50):
talking about the painting andtalking back and forth, and you
talk about, um, you mentionedsomething called like that, you
know, you have to know yourselfin order to go through that
personal transformation and, and, um, and come back in a
positive way.
And that also leads to this, um,um, idea of social
(10:11):
transformation that we cantransform as a society.
Can you elaborate on that alittle bit?
Um, for us, I found that reallyinteresting,
Noelle (10:21):
Oh, transforming as a society.
Uh, well, you know, uh, also I'm, uh, very much, uh, grounded in
Buddhist, uh, meditation andBuddhist, the theory or wisdom.
And so the idea, basically everytime I do a workshop, I always
(10:42):
end up by having a big virtualhug.
Now, you know, that when we doit in the studio, we are always
having a big group hug and wesay, may all beings be happy?
And I always introduce that forthe beginners is the idea that
when you heal yourself, you healthe world mm-hmm.
(11:05):
And, you know, there is probablymore than one way to look at
that statement, but at the deeproot, I would say, it's the idea
that we are not separated.
We are so connected with eachother that even at the nano
level, you know, whatever you domakes a difference for good or
(11:27):
for bad.
So if you do it for good, if youself transform a, you probably
see around you, you know, youhave a different influence
around the people that, uh, youare in contact with.
And then at the deeper level,you know, I believe, you know,
maybe the soul level you mightsay, or the spirit level, you
(11:48):
know, you might be just a littledrop in the ocean, but like the
Chinese say, you know, thebucket is getting fulled up by
12.
Lisa (11:59):
I love that.
I love that.
Yeah.
It makes me think of like, if,if we're all a system, if one,
one part of the system's broken,the system doesn't work and
we're not in harmony.
Right.
And so, you know, when you healyourself, you're creating
harmony within the systemitself.
Noelle (12:16):
Yeah.
And you know, this directly, Ithink, uh, perhaps, uh, with my
family, for instance, you know,uh, for me to go through this
entire process of, uh, trying toclear out, uh, the past, you
know, it allows me to be able tolook at my sisters and even the
(12:37):
one who did things that, uh,were not very nice to me.
Uh, I don't want to carry those,uh, you know, bad feeling to my
tune.
So I'm trying, even to this day,like I'm going to go to France,
you know, in next week.
And, uh, I'm planning to spend aweek with the sister, which she
(13:00):
wasn't too sure.
She wanted to spend a week
Lisa (13:03):
Noelle (13:04):
And, uh, she never talked to the other one for
like, I don't know how long theyhave a very bad fight between
the two of them.
And, but because I will bethere, she agreed to also be
there with the other one.
Lisa (13:18):
Oh, wow.
Noelle (13:19):
Wow.
Have,
Lauren (13:20):
Have you ever tried to make art with them?
Have you all ever made arttogether?
Noelle (13:27):
Oh, no.
Lisa (13:28):
Noelle (13:32):
No, I wish I could, you know, I have a, I have a friend,
um, who is a bit in the samesituation.
She comes from a big family.
Like we were nine children.
She comes from 17.
Lauren (13:45):
Wow.
Oh, wow.
Noelle (13:46):
Yeah.
And, but she's from Californiaand, you know, they are from a
very, um, I wouldn't say poor,but, uh, kind of a, you know,
not very well off, uh, familyand, uh, they never went much to
school.
Most of them she's the only one,you know, at my friend is I met
(14:07):
her at Pacifica.
So she took a, she got a PhD,but she's the only one in her
family.
And then she wrote a book kindof like similar to what I'm
doing, but then she describeshow she had all her sister
gather together in big Sur outof all places.
And they did like ceremonies,like new age ceremony.
(14:30):
You might say, you know, sharingstories.
And, uh, but I mean, I told her,oh my God, you were to do with
your family.
You know, I couldn't even thinkanything like this.
I tried, uh, the best I did wasto organize some, uh, group, uh,
I mean, family gathering of allthe siblings around the dining
(14:54):
table without wine.
,
Lisa (14:57):
funny
Noelle (15:01):
And discuss what we had to discuss.
And I brought with me an Eaglefeather,
Lisa (15:07):
Oh.
Noelle (15:08):
And I presented it like, you know, this is the talking
stick,
Lisa (15:13):
Uhhuh Uhhuh.
Noelle (15:14):
And we each listened to each other.
And the one who has the talkingstick is the only one who can
speak, you know?
So we did that twice, two, twoyears in row.
And those, those meetings werethe only meetings we ever had
where people were able to, tospeak and listen to each other
(15:36):
in a civilized way.
Lisa (15:38):
right.
I love that.
What it brings.
I love this quote from your,from your book.
It says my story, it is also mytruth.
It is a gift to the world.
Can you talk about that?
My story is my truth and it isthe gift to the world.
And how can, how can otherpeople share their story and be
it a gift to the world?
Noelle (15:57):
Yeah, well, um, it was first a gift to me because, uh,
to paint and, and, uh, in thismanner, you know, allowed me to
really, uh, clear up a lot ofthe bad feelings.
Uh, did, I certainly allowed meto do a big job in terms of, uh,
cleaning up the shadow.
(16:18):
You might say mm-hmm and, uh, allow, as
I went through, you may havenoticed that, uh, two, the end
of those 15 years, that the bookcover, you know, I was able to
go into the studio and, uh, comefrom a place of, uh, higher
state of mind, not, you know,you don't, the shadow is good,
(16:42):
but also reaching the light isalso in book.
So it, it, it helped me a lot,you know, and I think that, um,
telling my story in detail andvery honestly, and with, uh, as
much integrity as I could, Mr.
I think it helps also because,uh, a lot of the trouble with
(17:05):
these, uh, shadow mm-hmm is that is as its
name is, uh, telling you it'slike, it stays in the back, you
know, mm-hmm,, italways stays out of mind, out of
sight.
And of course it carries all theshame, all the difficult aspect
of who we are that we don'treally like to recognize, uh,
(17:27):
you know, very easily.
We prefer to think about ourselfas some kind of a white Knight,
but, uh, E even though we don'ttalk about it, think about it,
or even recognize it.
Or in my case, I have a storywhere it was completely erased
from my memory where thosematerials are still in our
(17:52):
subconscious, and they still, wedon't know about them, but they
know about us.
They actually make us, theyactually, the one who are, uh,
triggering us, you know, andthen when we come home at night
and we are like, Hmm, why did Isay this to this person in this
condition?
You know, that's really, wasn'ttoo smart, you know, but you
(18:14):
just, you just kind of elaborateit out without thinking mm-hmm
and, and, youknow, that's where it comes from
you.
You might wonder why did I doit?
But then that was that part ofyou, that's kind of in the
subconscious into darkness andit works.
It makes you work, you know, itpush you to do things.
(18:36):
You don't know why you are doingit.
So clearing out the darkness andbringing it to light is, um, a
very healthy work to dopsychologically mm-hmm
.
And because it clears up yoursleep, then you have a more
peaceful, mind, more open to beable to, to go deeper, not just
(19:01):
into that shallowsubconsciousness, but into deep
to nature of who you are.
Mm,
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Nice.
Lauren (19:09):
So, um, for someone who can't get themselves to a
workshop, big Sur, maybe they'renot ready for that, or they just
can't.
Um, is there something that theycould do at home, um, you know,
to start those small stepstowards this kind of work that
you're talking about, would youhave any suggestions for folks
like that?
Noelle (19:30):
Well, yeah.
Uh, actually, that's why I'mwriting a second book.
The first one being, you know,just, uh, my story and how it
works.
Mm-hmm and, um,what I went through.
So I tried to, uh, I, with thestory with some kind of a
principle, but, uh, the secondbook is, uh, the method, you
(19:52):
know, so after writing my ownbook and after, uh, having, uh,
led, um, many year the led, uh,many years of a workshop, it has
evolved.
It has become a little bit morecomplex.
Uh, it's very open kind of athing, you know, you can, it, it
depends on, on who is leadingthe workshop, so you can
(20:15):
integrate a lot of differenttechnique and you can, you can
never do it all at once.
So you can choose and you haveto be in kind of a sync with
your audience, you know, yourparticipants.
So you don't talk aboutsomething that they are not
interested, you know, so italso, depending on who you are,
(20:35):
or having as a participant willdictate a little bit what kind
of workshop you have, but I'mtrying to cover, uh, at least
eight or nine different, uh,method.
You might say, you know,different tools, different
technique, different approach,and to make them more clear or
(20:55):
more understandable so thatpeople, if they read both book,
you know, the first one I thinkis kind of, uh, exciting because
it's just a story mostly.
And then the second one is morelike a practical, how to a
workbook.
And then if you really gothrough that, you learn a lot of
(21:18):
different things.
And then depending who you are,you are going to be able to put
them into practice or not.
Lisa (21:27):
What I've, what I've noticed is may I might be wrong,
but a lot of the promise or thepremise of, or the process of
this work is painting and thenwriting on about it.
So the process, right?
Noelle (21:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I believe, uh, both togetherworking better because that's
what happened with me.
I did the painting for a longtime.
And then when I spent like threeyears to write the book, it
forced me to re-look at thepainting.
And then when I was comparingthem, when I was also digging
into what is that all about?
(22:02):
You know, then I, I kind of, uh,fleshed out.
But what I realized is that thepainting way of telling things,
that I was not sure I was what Iwas doing, what I was actually
painting them.
And unless I spent time afterlooking at them and kind of
(22:22):
pondering about it, you know,it's not going to reveal all of
its, uh, information unless youtake the time to, to think about
it.
And for me, the best way tothink about it is to, to write
the white in your journal, forinstance, and listen to the
painting.
Because if you really go deepinto the subconscious, when you
(22:44):
paint, that's a good thing aboutpainting also, because you know,
you don't have to have the wordsup in the top of your mind, you
know, mm-hmm,, youdon't really know exactly what
you are doing, and it's a lot,it's coming more spontaneously
from the subconscious.
And that's why we use thingslike, uh, temporary paint and,
(23:05):
uh, poster birds.
And, you know, this admonition,you know, the product is none of
your business because these freeyou completely from being
worried about wasting anexpensive car, so expensive
things, you know, and makingsure you do something that you
can show to your mom, you know,mm-hmm, like
(23:31):
refrigerator better to put itunderneath your bed.
You know, because this at firstis very private and within the
workshop, everybody is sort ofstimulating each other.
You know, let's say somebody'sgoing through a divorce or
whatever, something kinda verydifficult, and they are sharing
(23:53):
about what they're goingthrough.
Well, you may not be goingthrough a divorce, but maybe you
have some difficulty with yourpartner and listening to
somebody and seeing that thatperson is able to actually voice
it loud, you know, and it, withothers, that alone sort of gives
(24:16):
you the confidence and also wakeyou up like, oh, oh, but you
know, I can feel that I'm goingactually through something very
similar.
So it wakes you up.
It gives you permission toaccept whatever is going on
within yourself.
And you are not all thatdifferent.
So that's what happened when Iwent to, um, uh, to, to, you
(24:41):
know, to Edan because, um, thatwas way back in, in, in the
nineties, early nineties andlate nineties.
Um, anyway, I am French comingfrom, you know, very age where,
of vari age, square background,you might say, uh, bringing
(25:03):
Catholic and blah, blah, blah.
So I am a, I have a certainrestriction, you know, sort of
built in and here I was, youknow, which was the granddaddy
of all those, uh, self, uh,transformation center, that
(25:23):
stuff, you know, with, um, uh,everybody naked on LSG
basically.
Uh, so those women around me,like we were a group of 20
people.
So it was a pretty big group.
And there were men and women,but the majority of women and
they were doing painting, like,uh, we were not walk looking at
(25:46):
each other during the session,but in between session, we could
walk around the room and I waslooking at their painting and I
was like, oh my God, wow.
I can do that.
I think I can do it too.
You know, it just gave mepermission.
Mm.
Lauren (26:04):
Yeah.
It sounds like, um, it soundslike from I'm, I'm thinking back
to all the conversations we'vehad about people who have, uh,
kind of discovered how art canbe a personal, positive
transformation tool.
And a lot of it feels like youhave to be in a certain place
and time in your life, and thenit's like you, something opens
up and then you, then you, thenyou discover this art and for
(26:27):
you it's it's um, was painting,but it sounds like it was like,
it's like painting op almostopens up the part of your brain
that can then come back and findthe, the words to describe and
go through the process of almosttalking about trauma to yourself
(26:51):
and then to other people.
And it's like this it's, Idon't, I don't wanna use the
word middleman, but it almostis.
It's like this middleman thatexists inside of you, that just
needs to come out in order foryou to have that conversation
with yourself.
Noelle (27:07):
Oh, um, well that's one way I are supposed to look at
it.
I don't know if I look at itthat way.
I look at it more like, uh,thinking, you know, when you are
into toxic talk therapy, you arethinking and thinking is coming
from your thinking mind, youknow, which is basically what
(27:28):
the neuroscientist now called,uh, your default mode of
operation, you know, which isthe thinking mind that we are
using, you know, dinner dailylife.
And what they have alsodiscovered is that if you quiet
down that thinking mind, youknow, instead of being very
(27:49):
active, for whatever reason, youquiet it down, then there are
other circuitry in the brainthat kicked in.
And those are the one where youare more like at one with
everything and where your ego isno longer at the wheel.
(28:10):
You might, you know, I mightstill be hanging around
somewhere, but it's not drivingthe way you think and the way
you act.
So when the, the painting it'slike the, uh, creative activity,
it could be another kind of, uh,art.
But for me, painting is thewhite way.
(28:34):
Music'm totally not good withmusic, but I think musicians are
experiencing the same thing, youknow, is when you, uh, go into
the creative mind, that's whatit does.
You know, it's sort ofautomatically wired down that,
uh, default mode of operation,which is basically the place
(28:58):
driven by the ego mm-hmm.
So that sort of goes to silence.
And then another part, which isa lot more, uh, the part that,
uh, you know, where the mysticalexperiences may happen.
So now mystical experience is nolonger some kind of woo woo
(29:19):
stuff.
You know,, mm-hmm,, it's very
scientific.
It's like, okay, it's when yourelax your ego, then you have a
higher state of mind that justkicks in and who wouldn't want
that.
You don't have to go to shine,laugh, or that, you know, it's
right there, right here, whereyou are.
Lisa (29:38):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
Everything's inside of us,right?
Yeah.
And we just have to, I love it.
I, I just, a lot of visuals arecoming to me.
It's like a dark quiet spacethat you tap into the flow of
all reality.
Right.
So it's cool.
Noelle (29:53):
Yeah.
I,
Lauren (29:55):
I love it.
Well, thanks for taking sometime to chat with us about your
own experience.
And, um, I look forward to when,uh, your book is officially
launched, let us know, and we'lllet everybody else know and all
that stuff.
Lisa (30:09):
And if you wanna, yeah.
Thank you.
And if, um, we'll, if you wannacontact Noel for more
information or to join ourworkshop, we'll have that link
below.
So
Lauren (30:18):
Yeah.
Think you want.
Thanks.
Thanks everyone.
Noelle (30:21):
And Lisa, that was really fun.
I really appreciate being onyour podcast.
Lisa (30:25):
Oh, thank you.
All.
Hello, everybody.
Lisa (00:02):
We're back.
We're here.
We are really excited about ourconversation today.
We are with Noel.
Um, Noel, can you introduceyourself and tell our audience
who you are and, and why you dowhat you do?
Noelle (00:14):
Okay.
Oh, hi everybody.
And thank you, lo and Lisa for,uh, having me here tonight.
I'm really happy about that.
Um, I am NoeNoelll parato and,uh, I'm a little bit of a
Renaissance woman.
You might say.
I stopped, uh, studyingarchitecture and then film, and
then I I'm born in France, butthen I went to Hollywood.
(00:37):
I worked there for a while and Ihad all in my mind, some kinda a
life you might say that, uh, Iwanted to do something to wake
up people, you know, spirituallywake up people because I had
seen some documentary ontelevision of window and it had
(00:58):
such an impact on me when I was15 years old that I thought,
well, I really would like to beable to, I mean, I'm not
pretending to bere, but I wouldlike to do something that has an
impact on people.
And so I was not really able todo what I wanted with film.
(01:18):
So then somehow I landed into,uh, a therapy or processor
because it's not a therapy forpeople with really critically
mental problems.
It's more like coaching, youknow, it's more for people who
want to improve themselves, uh,to want to, uh, self transform
(01:38):
and wake up spiritually clean uppsychologically, you know, and
then also create, um, communityand with the pandemic, uh,
amazingly enough, you know, it'ssort of a worked out for us
because, uh, at first I wasthinking like, how can I do
thinking on zoom?
(01:58):
You know, mm-hmm
workshop that I lead, um,basically is very grounded in
zoom sharing or in sharing, Ishould say.
And, uh, we have a half hoursharing at the top and then
painting who people, uh, go athome and do that, uh, on their
(02:21):
own.
And then we have another halfhour at the ending where they
share.
So it all worked out thatcreated some kind of a community
that has been with me now forover two years.
And it has given us a chance toreally build up on, uh, more
than what I was doing before anduse the group community and what
(02:44):
I discovered they call the wespace and really kind of develop
that aspect.
Lisa (02:52):
Hmm.
Lauren (02:53):
Yeah.
So, um, you let, uh, Lisa, Ihave a sneak peek at your, um,
your book painting for life andit's, um, 40 portraits and sort
of divided into chapters and itfeels like a memoir it's like
memoir critique story timeline,and we got a chance to read it.
(03:15):
It was amazing.
Thank you for that opportunity.
Mm-hmm,
wanna ask you today, uh, whichis how did painting save your
life?
Noelle (03:28):
Well, painting came at a later time in my life.
As I say, even though as aarchitect student, uh, I had
learned how to draw and I alwaysloved art and painting a little
bit, but I never really had theinspiration, the discipline or
anything to do that.
And then by discovering thisapproach to painting that, uh, I
(03:53):
actually learned at the SLMInstitute in big south
California mm-hmm
approach where you don't knowwhat you are going to do.
You are not doing a product.
Actually the, the teacher MichelKasu was always telling us the
product is none of yourbusiness.
(04:15):
I like that.
That was very much against allthe, the kind of a teaching that
they give you in school.
And what I discovered with thatis like, you can't have no
inspiration because basicallyyou are working from your
present moment, emotional statesand emotional memories and
(04:38):
thinking and all that, thatstuff.
But even as you go through thememories, it's always about
being present in the very momentand seeing the transformation of
the images and following with itin a very natural, spontaneous
way.
(04:59):
And what happened is that, Hey,I was able to sort of have a tic
experience, you know, which isthe first thing everybody has
when they want to paint withoutrestraint.
And I realized how much anger Iwas still carrying Because my
(05:20):
childhood, um, we might not wantto get too heavy into that, but
I had a lot of anger against mymother, especially.
And I mean, I'm pretty positive,kind of a person.
I laugh a lot.
Everybody think I'm not veryhappy and everything, but this
(05:40):
anger was still there and thenthink allowed me to reconnect
with it.
And just that in itself ishealing.
And then it also, the techniqueallowed me to sort of work with
it so that, uh, I can go beneathit.
I can see that even until suchanger, you might say there was
(06:05):
love and painting actuallypainted themselves.
You know, it's not me whodecided to do this or that, it
just kind of came up.
And then I look at the paintingand I see how I transformed
during the painting and my wageat the end of like, uh, took me
(06:26):
like that first painting took melike two, two or three days to
do, you know, and we wereworking three sessions a day
every day.
And so it was very intense work,but I started with a lot of
anger and I ended up with grace,
Lisa (06:43):
Grace.
Wow.
Grace.
Noelle (06:45):
Yeah.
A fabulous experience where,yeah, I felt like I had warm
Lisa (06:56):
Oh, I love that visualization.
What I, what I'm hearing is that, um, this process is you're
really playing or dancing withyour subconscious, right?
Mm.
And so how do you do that?
Because we're such, we're sotrained and condition not to
dance with our subconscious, youknow what I mean?
What, what is, how did you dothat?
(07:16):
You know,
Noelle (07:18):
Well, perhaps, uh, what helped me to be able to do that?
I think there are probably manydifferent factors, but for me
personally, there was a, I wasalready 40 years old or
something like that when Idiscovered this approach to
painting.
And I was a point in my lifewhere I was ready to feel like,
okay, you know, enough of thattrack, you know, I need to
(07:42):
change.
Right.
So there was a strong intentionin changing and transforming,
and that was, uh, sort ofsupported on top of it because I
quit my work in Hollywood.
And I enrolled that Pacificagraduate Institute, you know, uh
(08:02):
, to, in a department of, uh,mythology and depth psychology.
So we were Gul very heavily intoCarl Young psychology and the
Carl Young sort of, um, process,you know, of a shadow work, the
idea of shadow work, and thenthe idea of the archetype, the
(08:24):
myth and how psyche is image,you know?
And so I was writing mydissertation about the family
crisis, you know, and seeing itfrom the mythological sort of
point of view.
So I was sort of immersed into alot stories, a lot of theories,
(08:46):
a lot of personal research.
And, uh, then when I, I did,when I went to SN I didn't know
even what to expect, I had aweak ion and I looked at their
catalog and I said, uh, okay.
Out of the five, uh, workshopthey present every week, I
thought, oh, well, that soundslike fun.
(09:06):
You know, but then when I gotthere, so seven day workshop,
you know, very intense at theend, I was like, so transformed.
So, and, uh, you know,absolutely ecstatic about the
process.
And so I just decided rightaway, this is for me,
Lauren (09:29):
Love it, love it.
Yeah.
So, um, through, throughout yourbook, there's a, you know, you,
you dive extremely deep intoyour own personal story and are
very open it's.
Um, it's clear that you've done,you know, that dive deep work
and that the painting is almosttalking to you, as you're
(09:50):
talking about the painting andtalking back and forth, and you
talk about, um, you mentionedsomething called like that, you
know, you have to know yourselfin order to go through that
personal transformation and, and, um, and come back in a
positive way.
And that also leads to this, um,um, idea of social
(10:11):
transformation that we cantransform as a society.
Can you elaborate on that alittle bit?
Um, for us, I found that reallyinteresting,
Noelle (10:21):
Oh, transforming as a society.
Uh, well, you know, uh, also I'm, uh, very much, uh, grounded in
Buddhist, uh, meditation andBuddhist, the theory or wisdom.
And so the idea, basically everytime I do a workshop, I always
(10:42):
end up by having a big virtualhug.
Now, you know, that when we doit in the studio, we are always
having a big group hug and wesay, may all beings be happy?
And I always introduce that forthe beginners is the idea that
when you heal yourself, you healthe world mm-hmm
(11:05):
And, you know, there is probablymore than one way to look at
that statement, but at the deeproot, I would say, it's the idea
that we are not separated.
We are so connected with eachother that even at the nano
level, you know, whatever you domakes a difference for good or
(11:27):
for bad.
So if you do it for good, if youself transform a, you probably
see around you, you know, youhave a different influence
around the people that, uh, youare in contact with.
And then at the deeper level,you know, I believe, you know,
maybe the soul level you mightsay, or the spirit level, you
(11:48):
know, you might be just a littledrop in the ocean, but like the
Chinese say, you know, thebucket is getting fulled up by
12.
Lisa (11:59):
I love that.
I love that.
Yeah.
It makes me think of like, if,if we're all a system, if one,
one part of the system's broken,the system doesn't work and
we're not in harmony.
Right.
And so, you know, when you healyourself, you're creating
harmony within the systemitself.
Noelle (12:16):
Yeah.
And you know, this directly, Ithink, uh, perhaps, uh, with my
family, for instance, you know,uh, for me to go through this
entire process of, uh, trying toclear out, uh, the past, you
know, it allows me to be able tolook at my sisters and even the
(12:37):
one who did things that, uh,were not very nice to me.
Uh, I don't want to carry those,uh, you know, bad feeling to my
tune.
So I'm trying, even to this day,like I'm going to go to France,
you know, in next week.
And, uh, I'm planning to spend aweek with the sister, which she
(13:00):
wasn't too sure.
She wanted to spend a week
Lisa (13:03):
Noelle (13:04):
And, uh, she never talked to the other one for
like, I don't know how long theyhave a very bad fight between
the two of them.
And, but because I will bethere, she agreed to also be
there with the other one.
Lisa (13:18):
Oh, wow.
Noelle (13:19):
Wow.
Have,
Lauren (13:20):
Have you ever tried to make art with them?
Have you all ever made arttogether?
Noelle (13:27):
Oh, no.
Lisa (13:28):
Noelle (13:32):
No, I wish I could, you know, I have a, I have a friend,
um, who is a bit in the samesituation.
She comes from a big family.
Like we were nine children.
She comes from 17.
Lauren (13:45):
Wow.
Oh, wow.
Noelle (13:46):
Yeah.
And, but she's from Californiaand, you know, they are from a
very, um, I wouldn't say poor,but, uh, kind of a, you know,
not very well off, uh, familyand, uh, they never went much to
school.
Most of them she's the only one,you know, at my friend is I met
(14:07):
her at Pacifica.
So she took a, she got a PhD,but she's the only one in her
family.
And then she wrote a book kindof like similar to what I'm
doing, but then she describeshow she had all her sister
gather together in big Sur outof all places.
And they did like ceremonies,like new age ceremony.
(14:30):
You might say, you know, sharingstories.
And, uh, but I mean, I told her,oh my God, you were to do with
your family.
You know, I couldn't even thinkanything like this.
I tried, uh, the best I did wasto organize some, uh, group, uh,
I mean, family gathering of allthe siblings around the dining
(14:54):
table without wine.
Lisa (14:57):
Noelle (15:01):
And discuss what we had to discuss.
And I brought with me an Eaglefeather,
Lisa (15:07):
Oh.
Noelle (15:08):
And I presented it like, you know, this is the talking
stick,
Lisa (15:13):
Uhhuh Uhhuh.
Noelle (15:14):
And we each listened to each other.
And the one who has the talkingstick is the only one who can
speak, you know?
So we did that twice, two, twoyears in row.
And those, those meetings werethe only meetings we ever had
where people were able to, tospeak and listen to each other
(15:36):
in a civilized way.
Lisa (15:38):
I love that.
What it brings.
I love this quote from your,from your book.
It says my story, it is also mytruth.
It is a gift to the world.
Can you talk about that?
My story is my truth and it isthe gift to the world.
And how can, how can otherpeople share their story and be
it a gift to the world?
Noelle (15:57):
Yeah, well, um, it was first a gift to me because, uh,
to paint and, and, uh, in thismanner, you know, allowed me to
really, uh, clear up a lot ofthe bad feelings.
Uh, did, I certainly allowed meto do a big job in terms of, uh,
cleaning up the shadow.
(16:18):
You might say mm-hmm
I went through, you may havenoticed that, uh, two, the end
of those 15 years, that the bookcover, you know, I was able to
go into the studio and, uh, comefrom a place of, uh, higher
state of mind, not, you know,you don't, the shadow is good,
(16:42):
but also reaching the light isalso in book.
So it, it, it helped me a lot,you know, and I think that, um,
telling my story in detail andvery honestly, and with, uh, as
much integrity as I could, Mr.
I think it helps also because,uh, a lot of the trouble with
(17:05):
these, uh, shadow mm-hmm
name is, uh, telling you it'slike, it stays in the back, you
know, mm-hmm,
sight.
And of course it carries all theshame, all the difficult aspect
of who we are that we don'treally like to recognize, uh,
(17:27):
you know, very easily.
We prefer to think about ourselfas some kind of a white Knight,
but, uh, E even though we don'ttalk about it, think about it,
or even recognize it.
Or in my case, I have a storywhere it was completely erased
from my memory where thosematerials are still in our
(17:52):
subconscious, and they still, wedon't know about them, but they
know about us.
They actually make us, theyactually, the one who are, uh,
triggering us, you know, andthen when we come home at night
and we are like, Hmm, why did Isay this to this person in this
condition?
You know, that's really, wasn'ttoo smart, you know, but you
(18:14):
just, you just kind of elaborateit out without thinking mm-hmm
you.
You might wonder why did I doit?
But then that was that part ofyou, that's kind of in the
subconscious into darkness andit works.
It makes you work, you know, itpush you to do things.
(18:36):
You don't know why you are doingit.
So clearing out the darkness andbringing it to light is, um, a
very healthy work to dopsychologically mm-hmm
And because it clears up yoursleep, then you have a more
peaceful, mind, more open to beable to, to go deeper, not just
(19:01):
into that shallowsubconsciousness, but into deep
to nature of who you are.
Mm,
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Nice.
Lauren (19:09):
So, um, for someone who can't get themselves to a
workshop, big Sur, maybe they'renot ready for that, or they just
can't.
Um, is there something that theycould do at home, um, you know,
to start those small stepstowards this kind of work that
you're talking about, would youhave any suggestions for folks
like that?
Noelle (19:30):
Well, yeah.
Uh, actually, that's why I'mwriting a second book.
The first one being, you know,just, uh, my story and how it
works.
Mm-hmm
So I tried to, uh, I, with thestory with some kind of a
principle, but, uh, the secondbook is, uh, the method, you
(19:52):
know, so after writing my ownbook and after, uh, having, uh,
led, um, many year the led, uh,many years of a workshop, it has
evolved.
It has become a little bit morecomplex.
Uh, it's very open kind of athing, you know, you can, it, it
depends on, on who is leadingthe workshop, so you can
(20:15):
integrate a lot of differenttechnique and you can, you can
never do it all at once.
So you can choose and you haveto be in kind of a sync with
your audience, you know, yourparticipants.
So you don't talk aboutsomething that they are not
interested, you know, so italso, depending on who you are,
(20:35):
or having as a participant willdictate a little bit what kind
of workshop you have, but I'mtrying to cover, uh, at least
eight or nine different, uh,method.
You might say, you know,different tools, different
technique, different approach,and to make them more clear or
(20:55):
more understandable so thatpeople, if they read both book,
you know, the first one I thinkis kind of, uh, exciting because
it's just a story mostly.
And then the second one is morelike a practical, how to a
workbook.
And then if you really gothrough that, you learn a lot of
(21:18):
different things.
And then depending who you are,you are going to be able to put
them into practice or not.
Lisa (21:27):
What I've, what I've noticed is may I might be wrong,
but a lot of the promise or thepremise of, or the process of
this work is painting and thenwriting on about it.
So the process, right?
Noelle (21:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I believe, uh, both togetherworking better because that's
what happened with me.
I did the painting for a longtime.
And then when I spent like threeyears to write the book, it
forced me to re-look at thepainting.
And then when I was comparingthem, when I was also digging
into what is that all about?
(22:02):
You know, then I, I kind of, uh,fleshed out.
But what I realized is that thepainting way of telling things,
that I was not sure I was what Iwas doing, what I was actually
painting them.
And unless I spent time afterlooking at them and kind of
(22:22):
pondering about it, you know,it's not going to reveal all of
its, uh, information unless youtake the time to, to think about
it.
And for me, the best way tothink about it is to, to write
the white in your journal, forinstance, and listen to the
painting.
Because if you really go deepinto the subconscious, when you
(22:44):
paint, that's a good thing aboutpainting also, because you know,
you don't have to have the wordsup in the top of your mind, you
know, mm-hmm,
you are doing, and it's a lot,it's coming more spontaneously
from the subconscious.
And that's why we use thingslike, uh, temporary paint and,
(23:05):
uh, poster birds.
And, you know, this admonition,you know, the product is none of
your business because these freeyou completely from being
worried about wasting anexpensive car, so expensive
things, you know, and makingsure you do something that you
can show to your mom, you know,mm-hmm,
(23:31):
refrigerator better to put itunderneath your bed.
You know, because this at firstis very private and within the
workshop, everybody is sort ofstimulating each other.
You know, let's say somebody'sgoing through a divorce or
whatever, something kinda verydifficult, and they are sharing
(23:53):
about what they're goingthrough.
Well, you may not be goingthrough a divorce, but maybe you
have some difficulty with yourpartner and listening to
somebody and seeing that thatperson is able to actually voice
it loud, you know, and it, withothers, that alone sort of gives
(24:16):
you the confidence and also wakeyou up like, oh, oh, but you
know, I can feel that I'm goingactually through something very
similar.
So it wakes you up.
It gives you permission toaccept whatever is going on
within yourself.
And you are not all thatdifferent.
So that's what happened when Iwent to, um, uh, to, to, you
(24:41):
know, to Edan because, um, thatwas way back in, in, in the
nineties, early nineties andlate nineties.
Um, anyway, I am French comingfrom, you know, very age where,
of vari age, square background,you might say, uh, bringing
(25:03):
Catholic and blah, blah, blah.
So I am a, I have a certainrestriction, you know, sort of
built in and here I was, youknow, which was the granddaddy
of all those, uh, self, uh,transformation center, that
(25:23):
stuff, you know, with, um, uh,everybody naked on LSG
basically.
Uh, so those women around me,like we were a group of 20
people.
So it was a pretty big group.
And there were men and women,but the majority of women and
they were doing painting, like,uh, we were not walk looking at
(25:46):
each other during the session,but in between session, we could
walk around the room and I waslooking at their painting and I
was like, oh my God,
I can do that.
I think I can do it too.
You know, it just gave mepermission.
Mm.
Lauren (26:04):
Yeah.
It sounds like, um, it soundslike from I'm, I'm thinking back
to all the conversations we'vehad about people who have, uh,
kind of discovered how art canbe a personal, positive
transformation tool.
And a lot of it feels like youhave to be in a certain place
and time in your life, and thenit's like you, something opens
up and then you, then you, thenyou discover this art and for
(26:27):
you it's it's um, was painting,but it sounds like it was like,
it's like painting op almostopens up the part of your brain
that can then come back and findthe, the words to describe and
go through the process of almosttalking about trauma to yourself
(26:51):
and then to other people.
And it's like this it's, Idon't, I don't wanna use the
word middleman, but it almostis.
It's like this middleman thatexists inside of you, that just
needs to come out in order foryou to have that conversation
with yourself.
Noelle (27:07):
Oh, um, well that's one way I are supposed to look at
it.
I don't know if I look at itthat way.
I look at it more like, uh,thinking, you know, when you are
into toxic talk therapy, you arethinking and thinking is coming
from your thinking mind, youknow, which is basically what
(27:28):
the neuroscientist now called,uh, your default mode of
operation, you know, which isthe thinking mind that we are
using, you know, dinner dailylife.
And what they have alsodiscovered is that if you quiet
down that thinking mind, youknow, instead of being very
(27:49):
active, for whatever reason, youquiet it down, then there are
other circuitry in the brainthat kicked in.
And those are the one where youare more like at one with
everything and where your ego isno longer at the wheel.
(28:10):
You might, you know, I mightstill be hanging around
somewhere, but it's not drivingthe way you think and the way
you act.
So when the, the painting it'slike the, uh, creative activity,
it could be another kind of, uh,art.
But for me, painting is thewhite way.
(28:34):
Music'm totally not good withmusic, but I think musicians are
experiencing the same thing, youknow, is when you, uh, go into
the creative mind, that's whatit does.
You know, it's sort ofautomatically wired down that,
uh, default mode of operation,which is basically the place
(28:58):
driven by the ego mm-hmm
So that sort of goes to silence.
And then another part, which isa lot more, uh, the part that,
uh, you know, where the mysticalexperiences may happen.
So now mystical experience is nolonger some kind of woo woo
(29:19):
stuff.
You know,
scientific.
It's like, okay, it's when yourelax your ego, then you have a
higher state of mind that justkicks in and who wouldn't want
that.
You don't have to go to shine,laugh, or that, you know, it's
right there, right here, whereyou are.
Lisa (29:38):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
Everything's inside of us,right?
Yeah.
And we just have to, I love it.
I, I just, a lot of visuals arecoming to me.
It's like a dark quiet spacethat you tap into the flow of
all reality.
Right.
So it's cool.
Noelle (29:53):
Yeah.
I,
Lauren (29:55):
I love it.
Well, thanks for taking sometime to chat with us about your
own experience.
And, um, I look forward to when,uh, your book is officially
launched, let us know, and we'lllet everybody else know and all
that stuff.
Lisa (30:09):
And if you wanna, yeah.
Thank you.
And if, um, we'll, if you wannacontact Noel for more
information or to join ourworkshop, we'll have that link
below.
So
Lauren (30:18):
Yeah.
Think you want.
Thanks.
Thanks everyone.
Noelle (30:21):
And Lisa, that was really fun.
I really appreciate being onyour podcast.
Lisa (30:25):
Oh, thank you.
All.
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