October 16, 2023 • 27 mins
Lisa and Lauren talk with Katherine Josten, founder of The Global Art Project for Peace, and discuss the relationship between making art and creating peace in the world. Can one individual change the world through art? Listen to the conversation and let us know what you think. Learn more and join The Global Art Project for Peace at https://www.globalartproject.org/
Learn more about the Take an Art Break Movement on the Art is Moving website here.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Okay . Welcome everybody to take an Art Break
podcast. We're so excited .
Today we have artist CatherineJos here. And Katherine , tell
us about yourself as an artistand about , um, the global art
piece Project for Peace .
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, I'm Catherine Joss, as you said, .
And , uh, I'm an artist and I'mthe founder, director of the
Global Art Project for Peace.
And , um, and I also taught artat the college and university
level for about 14 years beforeI started the project. But ,
um, the, and , and the projectgrew out of my own artwork. Um,
(00:39):
and my art was saying threemain things. We are all one,
there is no death, we are notalone. And , um, the , we are
all one part for the Global ArtProject. Just grew organically
out of my own artwork. So themission of the project is to
joyously create a culture ofpeace through art . So.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Wow. That sounds awesome. I love that mission.
Uh, we generally kind of use aquestion as a starting off
point for all of our , uh,podcasts. And the question we
wanted to sort of pose todaywith you is , um, in light of
the, the project that you'vebeen working on for , um, so
long and made such a big impactis what happens to the world on
(01:25):
art.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well , that's a really big question. ,
um,.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, yeah, we like to ask really big questions.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, you know, I don't even know where to begin
on that one. Um, the global art, doing the global art project,
you know, one of the reasonsthat I do it is because , um,
you know, I feel like in orderto make an artwork, you can't
really make an artwork withoutfeeling it inside. And, and so
(01:57):
you have to go inside, getcentered, get balanced, and
only then is your, you know,when you're really connected up
to your inner source of wisdom, um, that's when you're really
inspired and that's wheninspired art comes out. And I
think, you know, that takesreally going deep inside. And I
(02:19):
, I just feel like, and , andwhen you do go inside, that's
when you feel a connection tothe whole, you know, you feel
connected to not only otherpeople, but nature and the
world. You just feel yourenergy vibrating with all the
other energy in the world. And,and when you feel that , um,
you can't possibly want toinjure, you know, another being
(02:43):
or, you know, because it's,it's a part of you we're all
one and we're all connected.
Um, so I feel like art is a waythat people can go inside and
really connect and really feelthat , um, connection with
everyone. And if everyone feltthat, I don't think we would
have, you know, a lot of theconflicts that we have going on
(03:04):
in the world. And I know, youknow, a lot of people when they
participate in the Global Artproject , um, you know,
especially now, they say to me,oh , you know, thank heaven's
you're doing this now because ,um, it it, it it helps me to
see that there are other peoplein the world who think like me
and who want peace and who wantto feel connected, you know?
(03:26):
And , um, instead of justseeing all the news that we're
seeing, it's like, no, there'sall these other wonderful
things going on in the worldand we feel connected . So, and
Art helps you to feel thatconnection,
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You know? Can you , um, share a story about someone
that was really amazing thatwent deep inside and really
felt the piece in during thisproject? Is there a story that
happened or something that'smemorable?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
You know, no, but I , I'm just thinking of one
image that an artist createdand , um, and it , it was just
a beautiful image. It sort ofwas a mandala sort of image
with , um, it's hard toexplain, but it was really
beautiful. And around theoutside she said, the last
unexplored frontier innerspace, when I find peace within
(04:20):
myself, , then I willfind peace in the world. And I
love that because that justexpresses well, pretty much
expresses what I just tried tosay. Wow, that's .
Beautiful , beautiful. And, andthe interesting thing is, you
know, it's so wonderful 'causeso many people who participate
in the global art project haveparticipated year after year
(04:41):
after year. And this was aperson who participated for
many years, was a regionalcoordinator and helped to get
other people involved. And shehas now passed. And , um, you
know, I think of her , uh, andI've used her image on a poster
and, you know, I just feel likeher energy and all of our
energy just keeps going outthere into the world and keeps
(05:01):
affecting the world. And that'swhat art does. You know, one of
the important things is notonly do people exchange art for
the global art project, but um,I use the images then for
posters and we have, you know,wonderful galleries on the
website so people anywhere cantune in and see these
incredible images. So thatenergy keeps going out into the
(05:22):
world, it isn't lost . Mm-hmm .
. So her energy,her beautiful positive energy
is still affecting the world.
So I think that's justbeautiful. Yeah .
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah. Um, it's like a ripple effect. I really, I
really like that idea of it.
And I think that , um, to me,what's interesting about this
project is not only are youencouraging people to make art
in order to go inward and , um,get to know their, their inner
space , as you talked about,you , there's also a trade of
(05:54):
it, an exchange of , um, ofpeace centered art , uh, every
April , uh, across the globe.
And so I love this idea of, ofart with like peace, energy
floating around the globe for amonth and then falling into
someone's hands. Um, and justlike I'm thinking about all the
(06:17):
hands it goes , uh, throughuntil it gets to its final
destination. Um, you know, whatdoes that mean to you to have
that happen on an annual basis?
These, these objects of peacesort of floating around the ,
the globe?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah. Um, well actually it's every two years.
Um, every two years. Okay.
That's every even year. So thisyear coming up 2024 is , um, a
year of the exchange. Mm-hmm .
, but, you know,well, even to that, when I send
out brochures for the globalart project, and we have about
200 regional coordinatorsaround the world, and when I
send the brochures out , I evenput a note saying, you know,
(06:55):
the , these are seeds of the ,the brochures themselves or
seeds of That are going outinto the world. And you never
know where they're going toland and what's going to sprout
and , um, the artwork or theflowers, the, and flowers that
bloom from these seeds ofpeace. So, so I think about
that often, that , um, so it'snot only the, it's every part
(07:18):
of it going out into the worldis energy, as you said,
rippling out into the world.
And it's all making adifference because as we know,
energy is never , um,dissolved. It's out there and
it's gonna manifest in someway. So we're all together
putting our energy out theretogether, and it is making a
difference, you know? So, yeah.
I love , um,
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I love, I've always loved the idea because I'm a
painter also about the paintingbecomes like a psychic imprint
of whatever intention you have.
So can have you thought aboutthat? And do participants kind
of really think about that, youknow, when they're doing it,
like, you know, I'm, I'm, youknow, 'cause I was thinking
about that today as we weregonna talk. I was like, okay,
(08:00):
peace inside first .
You know what I mean ? Peaceinside first. And then when you
create with that, you know, youreally have to, and then that
you're gonna share this piece.
And it's just, it's amazing. Imean, it's powerful. Have you
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Thought about that?
Oh, absolutely. Yes. And e evenwhen I send out the brochures
to regional coordinators, I'veput in there that please put
your intention, you know, intothis, that you are putting this
out into the world. And, andyou know, my assumption is that
everyone who is creating thisart is putting their intention
into the art piece to then goout into the world because
(08:37):
intention is everything, you know , so mm-hmm .
Yeah . Intentionmakes all the difference. So,
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah. You said that , um, you taught and that sort
of led you to , um, create thisproject. Um, can you talk about
that, the , sort of the historyof how it began and ,
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Uh,
Speaker 3 (08:56):
What you were thinking of the time, how it
manifested?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah. No, it wasn't the teaching that led to doing
the global art project. It was,it grew outta my own artwork.
Organic. Mm-hmm .
Speaker 3 (09:07):
.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
And , um, and actually , um, yeah, my artwork
was saying three main things.
We are all one, there is nodeath. We are not alone. And,
but , um, even my own artwork,when I was in my early
twenties, I had a reallyintense out of body experience
that, and I was, you know,speeding through space. And it
(09:32):
was, you know, in this mm-hmm .
tense vortex ofenergy that I went down into
another, you know, I knew I wasleaving this reality dimension.
I was afraid I wouldn't be ableto come back. And , um, and so
my fear brought me out of it,but it happened the next night.
And finally the third night Iwas able to control my fear
enough to go down into thisswirling vortex of energy. And
(09:53):
, um, after, after thatexperience , um, I knew, you
know, I always knew on thatthere is no death, you know,
that things continue, but alsothat we're one energy vibrating
together. So this experiencejust , um, um, gave me a lot of
knowings on a whole lot ofdifferent levels that we are
(10:14):
all one energy. And immediatelyafter I, after I had this
experience, it was so profoundand visually intense that I
wanted to continue doing this.
So I decided to go into visualart so that I would be able to
, um, have, continue havingexperiences and be able to
express , um, the ideas in myart. And so , um, for 12 years
(10:37):
I worked around this body ofwork origins , um, that , those
three main things. And, butafter doing it for 12 years, it
was like, okay, now it's timeto do something to make it real
in the world. Mm-hmm .
. And , and , youknow, for those 12 years, I, I
was in my studio all the time.
I wore nothing but black, youknow, because I was so in, you
know, to get this out. And ,um, and then to do the global
(11:00):
art projects, it's like thetotal opposite. I have to be
totally out into the world andtotally mm-hmm. ,
um, to be able to, but it , it,it takes that idea, we are all
one and expresses it in theworld. And if in fact we are
all one, then everyone else inthe world who's creating the
art , um, is a part of mecreating the art. So it's an
(11:20):
extension of my own artwork.
But , um,
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Beautiful. I also had an on the body experience
when I was 18. Um, I was in acar crash though , and , um, I
had, I saw myself in , in thelights and they were putting a
halo over my head . And theonly thing that flashed me in
was , um, I saw my nephew , hewas okay, he was a three year
old that was in the car as well. And then boom, I went back
into my body. But my personalstory is I was more of like a
(11:47):
tormented artist , you know ,like , kind of like gothic
. And then after that ,I became really into mysticism.
Like, I was like searching. Andfrom my experience, I really
tapped into that. There issomething so much larger than
ourselves out there. And Iguess you could call , that
would be the one, right ? Thatwould be the one energy that is
(12:08):
, it's not, it's not here, . It's not in our
bodies , our bodies . And weforget, unless we have such a
shocking experience ofrevelation, we don't, it's hard
to remember, you know? But thequestion I had , you were
talking about this inner workof , you know, you were going,
you know, you had these out ofbody experiences, and I would
love to know, was it meditationor how did that happen? And
(12:30):
then you had the outer, and sodid you feel it was this dance
of personal becoming universal?
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah. Well, the thing is , um, I al growing up
I had mystical experiences. Mm. It wasn't , I had had that
before, but this one was sointense and so profound, and it
was one of those things that ittotally led me into doing art .
It led me into doing the globalart project. It was one of
those that , you know, and Iknew that this is absolutely
what I came here to do. Mm-hmm.
(13:00):
. And , um, Iforget what your question , um,
I was
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Talking about, you know , this dance, because it
was birthed out of this inner,inner, inner journey, right?
And then you took it to theouter, which is the global art
project for peace . And justthe dance between this personal
and this universal. And howcan, you know, even like the
participants are , they'redoing it too. They're dancing
in this personal universal,this inner and outer that kind
(13:28):
of like, maybe it's just metalking , but if you
could add to that
Speaker 2 (13:34):
No , no . I mean, well, because it all, it all
starts inside , you know? Anduntil, until, I don't know,
that's a profound thing. 'causea lot of people don't realize
that or come to that, you know,much later in life. But when
you come to that, it justshifts your whole paradigm. It
shifts how you view everything.
And I, and I think , um, um,you know, even, you know, I
(13:57):
tell people the hardest part ofdoing the global art project
can be going inside andimagining that peace is
possible . You know, with allthe , with all the conflict
that's going on in the world,and your family and your home
and your school, you know, it'slike, okay, gotta go inside,
get centered, you know? And itstarts inside, you know? And ,
(14:18):
and it can't, it can't affect,well, what you do affects
outside, but if you , it willanyway,. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah. I get , I get what you're, I get what you're
saying though. I, I think it'sa really important point to
bring up though, that it reallyis hard sometimes to believe
that world, world peace ispossible. It's really difficult
. Um, we're sent information ona daily basis that it's
(14:47):
impossible , right? Um , welive , we live in a very fear
based society , um, and we'refear-based beings for survival
reasons, you know? And so , um,I do think you have to practice
being peaceful , um, and art isa great way to practice that.
So I appreciate that notionthat maybe someone can't do it,
(15:12):
and they're just like, you knowwhat? I'm just gonna, I'm just
gonna make art. I'm just, atleast I'll , at least I'll do
that. And eventually I thinkart itself can lead you to that
peaceful place, right? Becauseit will open you up whether you
want it to or not. Art is goingto introduce you to your entire
self. Um , and when you'reready for it, all of you
(15:36):
Yeah. It's really gonnalet you know who you are , um,
the good, the bad , um, all ofit, the whole pie. Um, you're
gonna eat the whole pie. And Ithink that's a good thing to
do. And art is a really greattool for processing that. And
so you dive into that, and thenmaybe you can find peace for
those people who can'tnecessarily, who haven't found
(15:57):
that yet, right? In order tohave that intention. Maybe you
just start with the art. Maybesome people can start with the
piece and then make the art.
Maybe some people need to startwith the art, get to the piece,
and then keep making the art,right. Um, because all of it is
really important, even theprocess itself. But I, I think
that's a really great point to,to say that. Um, yes, it's
(16:20):
difficult to imagine that piececan exist, especially, I mean,
at any time in a society. Butif you , uh, if you, if you
don't start with you, it'snever gonna happen. So start
with you. I I really like that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah. And you know, someone once asked me , or
someone once said to me, well,you can't, you can't make pe
there , there always has beenwar . There always will be war.
You can't make peace. Andmm-hmm . And , you know, and I
remember my response was, well,but you can , um, you can work
towards your ideal, you know?
And if you're, if you're in theworld working towards your
ideal, when you look atyourself in the mirror, you
(16:58):
feel good about yourself, youknow, because you know you're
doing your thing, you know, andyou're listening to yourself
and you're, you know, and, andthe thing is, you're creating
in your own tiny little space,you're creating that , um, that
piece . And that, as we said,it does ripple out into the,
the whole rest of the world.
(17:18):
So, but, and I like what yousaid about just even the
process of making art, becausethat's true, even the process,
because you're focused, you'refocused in, and you are , I
mean, even that focus is acentering. It's so, it , it
doesn't matter even that you're, um, you know, it doesn't
matter the image, it's the ,the process of focusing in on
(17:41):
cr creation. And you know,when, when you're in the
process of creation, that's,you know, that's the closest
you can get to your ,to your source, you know, in
that inner source of wisdom.
Love that .
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So we know that you have some global recognition,
UNESCO you were presentingthere. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Excuse me?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Oh, didn't, didn't you talk , um, have a speech at
unesco?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Oh, no. That was , um, the International Network
of Museums for Peace. Oh, okay. And I was on the advisory
committee of that for aboutseven years, and now I'm a
senior advisor. But , um, everythree years they have a major
conference some place , and ,um, uh, all the peace
institutions come there andthey can give presentations.
(18:28):
And so I gave a , it's a reallywonderful organization. And so
every three years, yeah, ithappens. And this time it was
in ses , Sweden. And , um,actually it was , uh, really
wonderful this time. 'cause Imade some, you know, well , you
always make good contacts and ,you know, meet wonderful people
. , but the, the PeaceMuseum in Kiev , um, Ukraine ,
(18:50):
um, um mm-hmm . Woman there whois a court , um, she was very
excited about , um, having thePeace Museum get , um, schools
and individuals in groups inKiev in the surrounding area
involved in the global artproject. And another, another
person I met was, is the , uh,coordinator of the , um, peace
(19:11):
Museum in Teran , Iran. And ,uh, she was very excited about
getting people there involved.
And , um, yeah, it's just . So it , it's a , it's
a really wonderful organizationand , um, and , and it , it's
really helpful. Well, you know,everybody feels so isolated and
(19:32):
separated and , and you'redoing this piece work . And so
it's really wonderful to cometogether every three years and
, um, just , um, hear whatother people are doing. Um,
'cause there's so manydifferent avenues for peace.
I'm just, you know , someonealso one time asked me , um,
well, why do you think makingart is the best way to make
peace?? I said , Isaid, I don't think that making
(19:56):
art is the best way. It's oneway. You know, everybody has
their own opening and this isjust one way. There's so many
other wonderful ways to createpeace. Um, yeah , ,
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah. I, I mean, I think that's awesome to even
hear that there's organizations, uh, working together towards
peace. You know? Um, I feel alot of times in, in some
sections of the art worlditself, it does feel very
(20:28):
separate. It feels very , um,ego-driven , um, and about the
individual. And I think thateven that can happen in
movements that people aretrying to create , right? You
almost forget that it , it'sbetter to collaborate than not
to collaborate. Um, and , uh,you know, that can happen for
many reasons. So I'm, I thinkit's awesome that , um, not
(20:53):
only are you sort of open tothe notion of where whatever we
need to do to get to peaceworks for me. There's no one
way to get there so long as weget there. Um, and , uh,
everybody else is open tolistening to all the ways in
which you are , um, gettingthere. It's, it's, it's
(21:13):
awesome. I mean, I thinkcollaboration is definitely
key, right? It's that theindividual seeking of the
partnership and then thecollaboration and then the
community and that conversationand that that's how you grow
and grow and grow and grow. Ilove it.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
That's what I love about the Global Art Project
and why I think it's sosuccessful because it is all
about collaboration. You know,me individually, I could do
nothing, but it's all thesepeople, you know, all these
schools and all theseorganizations and all these
individuals and everybodyparticipating is making it
happen. I couldn't do it ifthere weren't all these. Um,
(21:51):
and actually when I started it,I was only going to do it once.
'cause it was so difficult. And, and , um, after, and you
know, when I started it, thatwas back in 1993. Wow. First
change was 94. There was nointernet. I didn't have a
computer. I , um, wrote up apress release and sent it to
(22:12):
English language, newspapersand major cities throughout the
world, not knowing what wouldhappen. And there, and , and I
also sent it to United PressInternational and Associated
Press . And it ended upthe Bangkok Post and Aton Post
in Oslo , Norway. And so forthe first exchange, there were
3,600 people in 19 countries.
(22:33):
And wow. I was only gonna do itonce. And then I started
receiving letters fromparticipants saying, you've
gotta do this again. And whenyou do , read the word
in my area. So it became abiannual event happening every
two years. And , um, when I sawthat it was , um, kind of
continuing, I said, okay , I'llgive 10 years outta my art to
(22:54):
do this. Been 30 years now. AndI think what have , the main
thing that has kept me goingall this time is the response,
the feedback. Mm-hmm .
I've
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Gotten mm-hmm.
,
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Because after each exchange I go, I cannot
possibly do this to myselfagain. 'cause the
administration is so awful, youknow ? Yes . But then like
birth, then the baby comes, youknow, then you start receiving
and seeing all these incredibleimages and , and the notes and
what people write and say howit affected not only their
school, but their wholecommunity and how every, you
(23:27):
know, and I read this and I go,how can I not do this? You
know? So that is really whathas kept me going is the
response from people. So, andit's just this huge
collaboration. Yeah. And therehave been , yeah, there have
been , um, so many, we've hadschools all the way from
kindergarten and nursery schoolthrough entire graduate
(23:47):
programs that haveparticipated. And there have
been some universities thathave created , um, courses
specifically for their studentsto participate in the global
art project and get theircommunity involved and have an
exhibition. And , um, um, thetie in community university ,
um, did that. And yeah, soit's, it , it has been a total
(24:09):
organic process. Um, it hasbeen leading me. I have not
been leading it. Mm-hmm .
, you know , andevery time that I think, oh my
God, I'm just too drained. Ican't do this anymore. It's
like something, something elseexciting happens that gets me
jazzed about it. Again, youknow, there's always something,
you know, one of our regionalcoordinators was the
co-chairman of the fine art anddesign department at Beijing
(24:32):
Normal University. And , um, hegot , um, the university
education department tocollaborate with the fine art
and design department to get 52schools throughout China and
Inter Mongolia participating.
Wow . And they did that formany years until Covid hit
mm-hmm . , butnow had , um, 165,000
(24:52):
participants in 97 countries.
And we have about 200 regionalcoordinators. And Yeah . And it
was nominated for you nuts . Goprize for tolerance and
nonviolence. Yeah .
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Wow. Bravo. Yeah .
Bravo. You're like a testimonyto , um, art transforms and art
can transform the world, right?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
And when I started, I had no money. I had no
contacts, no computer .
I borrowed $300 from my parentsto print banners and brochures.
'cause it's such an ephemeralidea, yet you needed something
tangible, you know, to make itreal. And , uh, and I tried to
apply for Grants , and,you know, I thought, oh , this
is such a great idea. SurelyI'll get a grant. You know?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I would read letters back saying, this is too
grandiose of an idea. No onecan possibly do this. You know,
do something more realistic.
But I knew that it could work.
You know, I could see itclearly in my mind. And so, you
know .
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah. Well, it, yeah, , it's, it is
clearly working and I'm gladyou are continuing to do it.
Um, yeah. So I , I appreciateyou taking the time to talk to
us today about it , um, and ,uh, introduce some more people
to the project.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And so Lisa
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Looks like she has
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Be part of this. How can they get ahold of you?
What's the best way to becomepart of the movement?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well , um, yeah, because we have brochures that
I can send and , um, so , um,yeah, if you email me , um,
peace@globalartproject.org ,uh, or you can no, the best way
go, or you can go on thewebsite and mm-hmm .
, or you can goon the website and register to
(26:35):
participate, or you can go onthe website and register to be
on our email list. We just putout a promotional email that I
can send you. If you wanna be aregional coordinator and help
distribute brochures in yourarea and get people involved in
your area, you can email me atpeace@globalartproject.org. Our
website is , um, no wait ,
(26:58):
www.globalartproject.org.
. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Wonderful. Awesome.
And we will, we'll list link.
Yeah. We'll put links in thedescription so people can click
on it and find you. And ofcourse, people can always get
ahold of us if they can't findyou, and we'll help them get
connected.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Thank you so much for doing the work you're doing
. Oh ,
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Thank you . Thank you . Amazing . Thank you .
Okay . Welcome everybody to take an Art Break
podcast. We're so excited .
Today we have artist CatherineJos here. And Katherine , tell
us about yourself as an artistand about , um, the global art
piece Project for Peace .
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, I'm Catherine Joss, as you said,
And , uh, I'm an artist and I'mthe founder, director of the
Global Art Project for Peace.
And , um, and I also taught artat the college and university
level for about 14 years beforeI started the project. But ,
um, the, and , and the projectgrew out of my own artwork. Um,
(00:39):
and my art was saying threemain things. We are all one,
there is no death, we are notalone. And , um, the , we are
all one part for the Global ArtProject. Just grew organically
out of my own artwork. So themission of the project is to
joyously create a culture ofpeace through art . So.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Wow. That sounds awesome. I love that mission.
Uh, we generally kind of use aquestion as a starting off
point for all of our , uh,podcasts. And the question we
wanted to sort of pose todaywith you is , um, in light of
the, the project that you'vebeen working on for , um, so
long and made such a big impactis what happens to the world on
(01:25):
art.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well , that's a really big question.
um,
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, yeah, we like to ask really big questions.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, you know, I don't even know where to begin
on that one. Um, the global art, doing the global art project,
you know, one of the reasonsthat I do it is because , um,
you know, I feel like in orderto make an artwork, you can't
really make an artwork withoutfeeling it inside. And, and so
(01:57):
you have to go inside, getcentered, get balanced, and
only then is your, you know,when you're really connected up
to your inner source of wisdom, um, that's when you're really
inspired and that's wheninspired art comes out. And I
think, you know, that takesreally going deep inside. And I
(02:19):
, I just feel like, and , andwhen you do go inside, that's
when you feel a connection tothe whole, you know, you feel
connected to not only otherpeople, but nature and the
world. You just feel yourenergy vibrating with all the
other energy in the world. And,and when you feel that , um,
you can't possibly want toinjure, you know, another being
(02:43):
or, you know, because it's,it's a part of you we're all
one and we're all connected.
Um, so I feel like art is a waythat people can go inside and
really connect and really feelthat , um, connection with
everyone. And if everyone feltthat, I don't think we would
have, you know, a lot of theconflicts that we have going on
(03:04):
in the world. And I know, youknow, a lot of people when they
participate in the Global Artproject , um, you know,
especially now, they say to me,oh , you know, thank heaven's
you're doing this now because ,um, it it, it it helps me to
see that there are other peoplein the world who think like me
and who want peace and who wantto feel connected, you know?
(03:26):
And , um, instead of justseeing all the news that we're
seeing, it's like, no, there'sall these other wonderful
things going on in the worldand we feel connected . So, and
Art helps you to feel thatconnection,
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You know? Can you , um, share a story about someone
that was really amazing thatwent deep inside and really
felt the piece in during thisproject? Is there a story that
happened or something that'smemorable?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
You know, no, but I , I'm just thinking of one
image that an artist createdand , um, and it , it was just
a beautiful image. It sort ofwas a mandala sort of image
with , um, it's hard toexplain, but it was really
beautiful. And around theoutside she said, the last
unexplored frontier innerspace, when I find peace within
(04:20):
myself,
love that because that justexpresses well, pretty much
expresses what I just tried tosay. Wow, that's
Beautiful , beautiful. And, andthe interesting thing is, you
know, it's so wonderful 'causeso many people who participate
in the global art project haveparticipated year after year
(04:41):
after year. And this was aperson who participated for
many years, was a regionalcoordinator and helped to get
other people involved. And shehas now passed. And , um, you
know, I think of her , uh, andI've used her image on a poster
and, you know, I just feel likeher energy and all of our
energy just keeps going outthere into the world and keeps
(05:01):
affecting the world. And that'swhat art does. You know, one of
the important things is notonly do people exchange art for
the global art project, but um,I use the images then for
posters and we have, you know,wonderful galleries on the
website so people anywhere cantune in and see these
incredible images. So thatenergy keeps going out into the
(05:22):
world, it isn't lost . Mm-hmm .
is still affecting the world.
So I think that's justbeautiful
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah. Um, it's like a ripple effect. I really, I
really like that idea of it.
And I think that , um, to me,what's interesting about this
project is not only are youencouraging people to make art
in order to go inward and , um,get to know their, their inner
space , as you talked about,you , there's also a trade of
(05:54):
it, an exchange of , um, ofpeace centered art , uh, every
April , uh, across the globe.
And so I love this idea of, ofart with like peace, energy
floating around the globe for amonth and then falling into
someone's hands. Um, and justlike I'm thinking about all the
(06:17):
hands it goes , uh, throughuntil it gets to its final
destination. Um, you know, whatdoes that mean to you to have
that happen on an annual basis?
These, these objects of peacesort of floating around the ,
the globe?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah. Um, well actually it's every two years.
Um, every two years. Okay.
That's every even year. So thisyear coming up 2024 is , um, a
year of the exchange. Mm-hmm .
out brochures for the globalart project, and we have about
200 regional coordinatorsaround the world, and when I
send the brochures out , I evenput a note saying, you know,
(06:55):
the , these are seeds of the ,the brochures themselves or
seeds of That are going outinto the world. And you never
know where they're going toland and what's going to sprout
and , um, the artwork or theflowers, the, and flowers that
bloom from these seeds ofpeace. So, so I think about
that often, that , um, so it'snot only the, it's every part
(07:18):
of it going out into the worldis energy, as you said,
rippling out into the world.
And it's all making adifference because as we know,
energy is never , um,dissolved. It's out there and
it's gonna manifest in someway. So we're all together
putting our energy out theretogether, and it is making a
difference, you know? So, yeah.
I love , um,
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I love, I've always loved the idea because I'm a
painter also about the paintingbecomes like a psychic imprint
of whatever intention you have.
So can have you thought aboutthat? And do participants kind
of really think about that, youknow, when they're doing it,
like, you know, I'm, I'm, youknow, 'cause I was thinking
about that today as we weregonna talk. I was like, okay,
(08:00):
peace inside first
You know what I mean ? Peaceinside first. And then when you
create with that, you know, youreally have to, and then that
you're gonna share this piece.
And it's just, it's amazing. Imean, it's powerful. Have you
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Thought about that?
Oh, absolutely. Yes. And e evenwhen I send out the brochures
to regional coordinators, I'veput in there that please put
your intention, you know, intothis, that you are putting this
out into the world. And, andyou know, my assumption is that
everyone who is creating thisart is putting their intention
into the art piece to then goout into the world because
(08:37):
intention is everything
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah. You said that , um, you taught and that sort
of led you to , um, create thisproject. Um, can you talk about
that, the , sort of the historyof how it began and ,
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Uh,
Speaker 3 (08:56):
What you were thinking of the time, how it
manifested?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah. No, it wasn't the teaching that led to doing
the global art project. It was,it grew outta my own artwork.
Organic. Mm-hmm .
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
And , um, and actually , um, yeah, my artwork
was saying three main things.
We are all one, there is nodeath. We are not alone. And,
but , um, even my own artwork,when I was in my early
twenties, I had a reallyintense out of body experience
that, and I was, you know,speeding through space. And it
(09:32):
was, you know, in this mm-hmm .
another, you know, I knew I wasleaving this reality dimension.
I was afraid I wouldn't be ableto come back. And , um, and so
my fear brought me out of it,but it happened the next night.
And finally the third night Iwas able to control my fear
enough to go down into thisswirling vortex of energy. And
(09:53):
, um, after, after thatexperience , um, I knew, you
know, I always knew on thatthere is no death, you know,
that things continue, but alsothat we're one energy vibrating
together. So this experiencejust , um, um, gave me a lot of
knowings on a whole lot ofdifferent levels that we are
(10:14):
all one energy. And immediatelyafter I, after I had this
experience, it was so profoundand visually intense that I
wanted to continue doing this.
So I decided to go into visualart so that I would be able to
, um, have, continue havingexperiences and be able to
express , um, the ideas in myart. And so , um, for 12 years
(10:37):
I worked around this body ofwork origins , um, that , those
three main things. And, butafter doing it for 12 years, it
was like, okay, now it's timeto do something to make it real
in the world. Mm-hmm .
was in my studio all the time.
I wore nothing but black, youknow, because I was so in, you
know, to get this out. And ,um, and then to do the global
(11:00):
art projects, it's like thetotal opposite. I have to be
totally out into the world andtotally mm-hmm.
um, to be able to, but it , it,it takes that idea, we are all
one and expresses it in theworld. And if in fact we are
all one, then everyone else inthe world who's creating the
art , um, is a part of mecreating the art. So it's an
(11:20):
extension of my own artwork.
But , um,
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Beautiful. I also had an on the body experience
when I was 18. Um, I was in acar crash though , and , um, I
had, I saw myself in , in thelights and they were putting a
halo over my head . And theonly thing that flashed me in
was , um, I saw my nephew , hewas okay, he was a three year
old that was in the car as well. And then boom, I went back
into my body. But my personalstory is I was more of like a
(11:47):
tormented artist , you know ,like , kind of like gothic
Like, I was like searching. Andfrom my experience, I really
tapped into that. There issomething so much larger than
ourselves out there. And Iguess you could call , that
would be the one, right ? Thatwould be the one energy that is
(12:08):
, it's not, it's not here,
bodies , our bodies . And weforget, unless we have such a
shocking experience ofrevelation, we don't, it's hard
to remember, you know? But thequestion I had , you were
talking about this inner workof , you know, you were going,
you know, you had these out ofbody experiences, and I would
love to know, was it meditationor how did that happen? And
(12:30):
then you had the outer, and sodid you feel it was this dance
of personal becoming universal?
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah. Well, the thing is , um, I al growing up
I had mystical experiences. Mm. It wasn't , I had had that
before, but this one was sointense and so profound, and it
was one of those things that ittotally led me into doing art .
It led me into doing the globalart project. It was one of
those that , you know, and Iknew that this is absolutely
what I came here to do. Mm-hmm.
(13:00):
I was
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Talking about, you know , this dance, because it
was birthed out of this inner,inner, inner journey, right?
And then you took it to theouter, which is the global art
project for peace . And justthe dance between this personal
and this universal. And howcan, you know, even like the
participants are , they'redoing it too. They're dancing
in this personal universal,this inner and outer that kind
(13:28):
of like, maybe it's just metalking
could add to that
Speaker 2 (13:34):
No , no . I mean, well, because it all, it all
starts inside , you know? Anduntil, until, I don't know,
that's a profound thing. 'causea lot of people don't realize
that or come to that, you know,much later in life. But when
you come to that, it justshifts your whole paradigm. It
shifts how you view everything.
And I, and I think , um, um,you know, even, you know, I
(13:57):
tell people the hardest part ofdoing the global art project
can be going inside andimagining that peace is
possible . You know, with allthe , with all the conflict
that's going on in the world,and your family and your home
and your school, you know, it'slike, okay, gotta go inside,
get centered, you know? And itstarts inside, you know? And ,
(14:18):
and it can't, it can't affect,well, what you do affects
outside, but if you , it willanyway,
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah. I get , I get what you're, I get what you're
saying though. I, I think it'sa really important point to
bring up though, that it reallyis hard sometimes to believe
that world, world peace ispossible. It's really difficult
. Um, we're sent information ona daily basis that it's
(14:47):
impossible , right? Um , welive , we live in a very fear
based society , um, and we'refear-based beings for survival
reasons, you know? And so , um,I do think you have to practice
being peaceful , um, and art isa great way to practice that.
So I appreciate that notionthat maybe someone can't do it,
(15:12):
and they're just like, you knowwhat? I'm just gonna, I'm just
gonna make art. I'm just, atleast I'll , at least I'll do
that. And eventually I thinkart itself can lead you to that
peaceful place, right? Becauseit will open you up whether you
want it to or not. Art is goingto introduce you to your entire
self. Um , and when you'reready for it, all of you
(15:36):
the good, the bad , um, all ofit, the whole pie. Um, you're
gonna eat the whole pie. And Ithink that's a good thing to
do. And art is a really greattool for processing that. And
so you dive into that, and thenmaybe you can find peace for
those people who can'tnecessarily, who haven't found
(15:57):
that yet, right? In order tohave that intention. Maybe you
just start with the art. Maybesome people can start with the
piece and then make the art.
Maybe some people need to startwith the art, get to the piece,
and then keep making the art,right. Um, because all of it is
really important, even theprocess itself. But I, I think
that's a really great point to,to say that. Um, yes, it's
(16:20):
difficult to imagine that piececan exist, especially, I mean,
at any time in a society. Butif you , uh, if you, if you
don't start with you, it'snever gonna happen. So start
with you. I I really like that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah. And you know, someone once asked me , or
someone once said to me, well,you can't, you can't make pe
there , there always has beenwar . There always will be war.
You can't make peace. Andmm-hmm . And , you know, and I
remember my response was, well,but you can , um, you can work
towards your ideal, you know?
And if you're, if you're in theworld working towards your
ideal, when you look atyourself in the mirror, you
(16:58):
feel good about yourself, youknow, because you know you're
doing your thing, you know, andyou're listening to yourself
and you're, you know, and, andthe thing is, you're creating
in your own tiny little space,you're creating that , um, that
piece . And that, as we said,it does ripple out into the,
the whole rest of the world.
(17:18):
So, but, and I like what yousaid about just even the
process of making art, becausethat's true, even the process,
because you're focused, you'refocused in, and you are , I
mean, even that focus is acentering. It's so, it , it
doesn't matter even that you're, um, you know, it doesn't
matter the image, it's the ,the process of focusing in on
(17:41):
cr creation. And you know,when, when you're in the
process of creation, that's,you know, that's the closest
you can get to your
that inner source of wisdom.
Love that .
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So we know that you have some global recognition,
UNESCO you were presentingthere. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Excuse me?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Oh, didn't, didn't you talk , um, have a speech at
unesco?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Oh, no. That was , um, the International Network
of Museums for Peace. Oh, okay. And I was on the advisory
committee of that for aboutseven years, and now I'm a
senior advisor. But , um, everythree years they have a major
conference some place , and ,um, uh, all the peace
institutions come there andthey can give presentations.
(18:28):
And so I gave a , it's a reallywonderful organization. And so
every three years, yeah, ithappens. And this time it was
in ses , Sweden. And , um,actually it was , uh, really
wonderful this time. 'cause Imade some, you know, well , you
always make good contacts and ,you know, meet wonderful people
.
(18:50):
um, um mm-hmm . Woman there whois a court , um, she was very
excited about , um, having thePeace Museum get , um, schools
and individuals in groups inKiev in the surrounding area
involved in the global artproject. And another, another
person I met was, is the , uh,coordinator of the , um, peace
(19:11):
Museum in Teran , Iran. And ,uh, she was very excited about
getting people there involved.
And , um, yeah, it's just
a really wonderful organizationand , um, and , and it , it's
really helpful. Well, you know,everybody feels so isolated and
(19:32):
separated and , and you'redoing this piece work . And so
it's really wonderful to cometogether every three years and
, um, just , um, hear whatother people are doing. Um,
'cause there's so manydifferent avenues for peace.
I'm just, you know , someonealso one time asked me , um,
well, why do you think makingart is the best way to make
peace?
(19:56):
art is the best way. It's oneway. You know, everybody has
their own opening and this isjust one way. There's so many
other wonderful ways to createpeace. Um, yeah ,
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah. I, I mean, I think that's awesome to even
hear that there's organizations, uh, working together towards
peace. You know? Um, I feel alot of times in, in some
sections of the art worlditself, it does feel very
(20:28):
separate. It feels very , um,ego-driven , um, and about the
individual. And I think thateven that can happen in
movements that people aretrying to create , right? You
almost forget that it , it'sbetter to collaborate than not
to collaborate. Um, and , uh,you know, that can happen for
many reasons. So I'm, I thinkit's awesome that , um, not
(20:53):
only are you sort of open tothe notion of where whatever we
need to do to get to peaceworks for me. There's no one
way to get there so long as weget there. Um, and , uh,
everybody else is open tolistening to all the ways in
which you are , um, gettingthere. It's, it's, it's
(21:13):
awesome. I mean, I thinkcollaboration is definitely
key, right? It's that theindividual seeking of the
partnership and then thecollaboration and then the
community and that conversationand that that's how you grow
and grow and grow and grow. Ilove it.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
That's what I love about the Global Art Project
and why I think it's sosuccessful because it is all
about collaboration. You know,me individually, I could do
nothing, but it's all thesepeople, you know, all these
schools and all theseorganizations and all these
individuals and everybodyparticipating is making it
happen. I couldn't do it ifthere weren't all these. Um,
(21:51):
and actually when I started it,I was only going to do it once.
'cause it was so difficult. And, and , um, after, and you
know, when I started it, thatwas back in 1993. Wow. First
change was 94. There was nointernet. I didn't have a
computer. I , um, wrote up apress release and sent it to
(22:12):
English language, newspapersand major cities throughout the
world, not knowing what wouldhappen. And there, and , and I
also sent it to United PressInternational and Associated
Press
in Oslo , Norway. And so forthe first exchange, there were
3,600 people in 19 countries.
(22:33):
And wow. I was only gonna do itonce. And then I started
receiving letters fromparticipants saying, you've
gotta do this again. And whenyou do
in my area. So it became abiannual event happening every
two years. And , um, when I sawthat it was , um, kind of
continuing, I said, okay , I'llgive 10 years outta my art to
(22:54):
do this. Been 30 years now. AndI think what have , the main
thing that has kept me goingall this time is the response,
the feedback. Mm-hmm .
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Gotten mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Because after each exchange I go, I cannot
possibly do this to myselfagain. 'cause the
administration is so awful, youknow ? Yes . But then like
birth, then the baby comes, youknow, then you start receiving
and seeing all these incredibleimages and , and the notes and
what people write and say howit affected not only their
school, but their wholecommunity and how every, you
(23:27):
know, and I read this and I go,how can I not do this? You
know? So that is really whathas kept me going is the
response from people. So, andit's just this huge
collaboration. Yeah. And therehave been , yeah, there have
been , um, so many, we've hadschools all the way from
kindergarten and nursery schoolthrough entire graduate
(23:47):
programs that haveparticipated. And there have
been some universities thathave created , um, courses
specifically for their studentsto participate in the global
art project and get theircommunity involved and have an
exhibition. And , um, um, thetie in community university ,
um, did that. And yeah, soit's, it , it has been a total
(24:09):
organic process. Um, it hasbeen leading me. I have not
been leading it. Mm-hmm .
God, I'm just too drained. Ican't do this anymore. It's
like something, something elseexciting happens that gets me
jazzed about it. Again, youknow, there's always something,
you know, one of our regionalcoordinators was the
co-chairman of the fine art anddesign department at Beijing
(24:32):
Normal University. And , um, hegot , um, the university
education department tocollaborate with the fine art
and design department to get 52schools throughout China and
Inter Mongolia participating.
Wow . And they did that formany years until Covid hit
mm-hmm .
(24:52):
participants in 97 countries.
And we have about 200 regionalcoordinators. And Yeah . And it
was nominated for you nuts . Goprize for tolerance and
nonviolence. Yeah .
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Wow. Bravo. Yeah .
Bravo. You're like a testimonyto , um, art transforms and art
can transform the world, right?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
And when I started, I had no money. I had no
contacts, no computer
I borrowed $300 from my parentsto print banners and brochures.
'cause it's such an ephemeralidea, yet you needed something
tangible, you know, to make itreal. And , uh, and I tried to
apply for Grants
is such a great idea. SurelyI'll get a grant. You know?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I would read letters back saying, this is too
grandiose of an idea. No onecan possibly do this. You know,
do something more realistic.
But I knew that it could work.
You know, I could see itclearly in my mind. And so, you
know .
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah. Well, it, yeah,
clearly working and I'm gladyou are continuing to do it.
Um, yeah. So I , I appreciateyou taking the time to talk to
us today about it , um, and ,uh, introduce some more people
to the project.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And so Lisa
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Looks like she has
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Be part of this. How can they get ahold of you?
What's the best way to becomepart of the movement?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well , um, yeah, because we have brochures that
I can send and , um, so , um,yeah, if you email me , um,
peace@globalartproject.org ,uh, or you can no, the best way
go, or you can go on thewebsite and mm-hmm .
(26:35):
participate, or you can go onthe website and register to be
on our email list. We just putout a promotional email that I
can send you. If you wanna be aregional coordinator and help
distribute brochures in yourarea and get people involved in
your area, you can email me atpeace@globalartproject.org. Our
website is , um, no wait ,
(26:58):
www.globalartproject.org.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Wonderful. Awesome.
And we will, we'll list link.
Yeah. We'll put links in thedescription so people can click
on it and find you. And ofcourse, people can always get
ahold of us if they can't findyou, and we'll help them get
connected.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Thank you so much for doing the work you're doing
. Oh ,
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Thank you . Thank you . Amazing . Thank you .
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