April 3, 2025 • 32 mins
Lisa and Lauren talk with Anna Reyner about the magic of making art together as a group and what happens to the individual and the community as a whole when people sit down and get creative together. Art is the "secret sauce" that breaks down boundaries between strangers and helps them connect with one another. Anna also speaks to the benefit of teaching caretakers, social workers, nurses, teachers and other service providers how to use art as a tool for stress relief, trauma informed care, and social emotional development. Learn more about Anna and her work at https://www.creativeplayla.com/
Learn more about the Take an Art Break Movement on the Art is Moving website here.
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Episode Transcript
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Lisa (00:02):
Okay, everybody, welcome to our Take an Art Break
Podcast. We're really excitedtoday. We're here with Anna
Reiner . And Anna, introduceyourself,
Anna (00:12):
Please . Okay, I'll do that. Thanks. So, I'm Anna
Reyner, if you don't mind. It'sall right . And we said Reyner
Shine is one way you canremember. Oh, I like that.
. Yeah . But anyway ,uh, Anna Reyner and , um, I've
been an art therapist and anart teacher and a teacher of
various other types of , uh,content. I used to be an
English teacher. I love art andlanguage together. But anyway,
(00:34):
I've worked in human servicesall my life , um, in many
capacities. But art has alwaysbeen the common thread, and I
really , uh, enormously valuethe , uh, the impact of art on
wellbeing , um, on mentalhealth, social emotional
health, and on how it art canconnect people to each other,
(00:55):
how we can connect to our realself. It's , it helps us sort
of engage and activate ourauthentic self . But I think in
this day and age now, whenwe're all feeling very
isolated, especially after the, uh, covid lockdown pandemic ,
um, but also just modernsociety, we're so hooked on our
screens and, and our to-dolist, because life is so
(01:19):
overstimulating. Things that wegotta do, gotta get done, gotta
get done. And sometimes weforget the , um, value of
making authentic connectionswith other people. And , uh,
sometimes people we know, andsometimes new people, if we go
to an , some kind of artgathering and we're around
people we've never met before ,um, simple art activities can
(01:41):
help us feel seen. And that'swhat I think we all desperately
want. We want to be seen, wewant to be acknowledged and ,
uh, valued and in an authenticway. And art really enables us
to do that. Yeah . So mybusiness is , um, I have a
business that , uh, I've been atrainer for many, many years,
(02:01):
decades, I I say between 35 and40 years as an educator myself,
who then became a therapist,which I think is not uncommon
when people who are interestedin education or social sciences
of any type, oftentimes they'realso interested in therapy. I
was one of those people. So artwas my key interest. Then I
(02:23):
loved working with people, so Ilove worked with children and
adults, and , um, I think Ialways loved that connection.
So I loved being creative, andI loved the connection. You
know, a lot of artists who arefine artists, studio artists,
work in isolation, because insome ways that's just the life
of an artist. It's, you'regoing deeply into your own form
(02:44):
of expression and, you know,creation. But , um, and I tried
that when I was younger, but I,I was lonely. I, I missed the
connection. I miss , I misssocial. I guess I'm , I have
that little bit of extroversionin me, , just graves ,
you know, a connection. Mm-hmm . And , uh, so I
found that art therapy , uh,and art education was a way to
(03:06):
be creative and also connect.
So , um, so I don't know if youwanted to ask me another
questions, but I can just goand talk about
Lauren (03:16):
Yeah. Um , well , we like , yeah. I love that. Thank
you for introducing yourself,and I love everything you've
mentioned so far. Yeah. Weusually use a question as a
jumping off point for aconversation, and then just
where it goes . Um, it's beenworking out for several years
now, so. Good, good,
Anna (03:33):
Good. Yeah . You've been , you've been in it for a long
time, and it Yeah, I'm gladhave the follow you have
growing following. Yeah.
Lauren (03:40):
Yeah. So , um, I wa I wanted to ask you , uh, what
happens when groups gather andmake art? I mean, it's great
jumping off point from what youmentioned about the creativity
and connections. So what haveyou, have you noticed that
happens when you do get groupstogether and they gather and
they make art together? Whathappens?
Anna (03:59):
Well, you know, art is like the secret sauce to
connection. And in groups when,especially when people don't
know each other or know , don'tknow each other well. And I say
that because I do now, and forthe last five years, I have ,
um, worked as a teacher trainerfor teachers who come together
(04:20):
for their professionaldevelopment needs because they
work in school districts, orthey work in head start
agencies, or they work withchildren. Um, but they have
once or twice a year, all the ,uh, the classrooms will stop
and they'll have professionaldevelopment days. Hmm . So
depending on your schooldistrict, you'll have one day
or two days, or sometimes thewhole week. Uh, I know I live
(04:41):
in Los Angeles and the schooldistricts here will close, you
know, for up almost a week, Ithink, before school starts,
and that's when they bringtrainers in. And I have a
business that , uh, uses art toshow those teachers how to be
better teachers, more effectiveteachers, and how to address
the social emotional needs ofthe children that they're
(05:04):
teaching. So we assume ineducation, especially working
with younger children, and I'mtalking about preschool through
early elementary , um, earlychildhood is defined up until
age eight. So it's first,second, and third grade and
preschool, that's whenchildren's minds are developing
, uh, at their fastest rate.
And they do a lot of hands-onlearning to accelerate their,
(05:26):
the growth of their, theirneurons and their , um, brain
pathways and the , theirfoundational , uh, you know,
brain capacity gets determinedin those early years. So I work
with teachers who work in thowith those children. And so I
have groups of teacherssometimes as many as 250 at a
time I did recently , um, youknow, more often with 25 or 50
(05:50):
at a time. And I do a lot ofdifferent trainings, but I'm
always using art materials as apart of the training. So now I
do, I do a lot of creativityand connection workshops. One
that , uh, is very popular isjust called Renew Your Passion.
And it's art for the teachersthemselves or the caregivers.
'cause you know, noteverybody's a teacher, but many
(06:11):
people work in a, in a care ,in a nurturing position. You
know, whether they are socialworkers or teachers or, you
know, there's so many, whetheryou're a nurse, whether you're
a firefighter, there's so manywhat you would call service
professions where you'rehelping other people and
working with other people. And, um, and those, the , those
(06:32):
are people in, in that field.
Those of us who are educatorsor therapists , um, have a lot
of stress because we have thesecondary stress of the people
we're working with to help themget out through their stress.
We have our own collectivestress. And that's, you know,
that's a recognized , uh, it'skind of a , a form of, of mild
, I , it's not necessarily Maya, but it's a generalized form
(06:55):
of PTSD . Um, what happens,it's care for the caregiver,
uhhuh and teachers, A lot oftimes people don't realize
teachers are caregivers.
They're educating, but they'realso dealing with children's ,
um, the social emotionalfoundation, how I feel about
myself, how I, how I relate toothers. How does the world see
(07:15):
me? Do I fit in the world? Do Ihave a place? And , um, so
given that teachers often getburned out, especially after ,
um, the Covid pandemic , um,when everybody's nerves are
kind of fried , uh, because ofthe pandemic overload of trauma
, um, you know, teachers aredesperate to make connections
(07:37):
and get in touch with their owncreativity. So get back ,
getting back to your question,Laurel , uh, Lauren, what do I
see when I do those workshops?
I see those, these sparksstarting to fire, not in the
beginning, because if you givemost adults a piece of black
paper and stuff to play with,you know, they're like, I can
draw. I'm not an artist.
(07:59):
. Yeah . Yeah . Like,why did I sign up for this? Or
why did my manager make me goto this? Yeah . I hate art. I
was never good at it. Or, youknow, something I hear , you
know, we've heard it all. Yes.
In fact , so often it's , it'slike a broken record. People
will come into the training,I'll have everything set up
with some nice inviting, youknow, very express, like the
(08:20):
things you see behind me. I'mnot doing what most people
think of as art. I'm doinglines , shapes and colors.
Mm-hmm . I'mtelling you the things that our
therapists do, , it'slike, let's , let's just do it
and not think about it. Right .
You know? And , uh, so peoplecome in and it's , so often
people say just like, they seeme setting up and they say, oh,
I'm not an artist. I can'tdraw. And like, like, just to
(08:44):
warn you, this is not my thing.
. And , uh,then oftentimes after the end
of the hour or two hours,depending on, you know, how
long the workshop is, thosesame people will say, you know,
I was, this is more fun than Ithought it would be. And that's
what I know that, okay, I'vedone my job to help open up
people's attitudes about theirown ability to enjoy this. And,
(09:07):
and, and then on a , a pointthat , um, that I think is so
important to make is theconnections and how when people
are loosening up, and I'm doinga lot of those, loosening up
with liquid, watercolor, loosenup with, you know, doodling,
scribbling, getting a lot ofmotion in there. Um, I always
(09:27):
say the more of your body youget involved, the better.
'cause you wanna get out ofyour head . And , um, and you
see people starting to relaxand connect and enjoy just
talking with each other, peeach other in a relaxed
fashion. You know, you see,there's so much, there's so
much that happens and, and it'snot, art is not what people
(09:48):
think it is. And, and theseworkshops help them realize
that.
Lisa (09:52):
Yeah . I love that. Uh , what comes up for me is , um,
an understanding of empathy. It, you know, when you were
talking about like , um,teachers as caregivers or
people that are in the serviceindustry where they're
absorbing other people's energyand they don't know it. So do
you feel that art , um, helpsyou understand the po you know,
(10:13):
and it's empathy towardsyourself as well, right? Yeah,
yeah,
Anna (10:17):
Yeah. You know, it is, it's such a, it's , it's such a
metaphor, say , just because ofthis thing happens to be behind
me on the wall, right ? Um,this is just swirls of color
that have been sprayed througha spray bottle. So it's liquid
paint, it's literally liquidwatercolor and a big , uh, I
think it's a four by eightpaint tarp, right? Mm-hmm
. And so it's avery , um, uh, loose thing that
(10:41):
I'm spraying and swirling somedrizzles on top. So if I , um,
do a smaller version of thosewith a group of 50 people or
250 people , um, excuse me,where everybody's, you know,
we're doing those kinds ofthings on a, on a more reduced
size, or perhaps they'restanding around with a group of
four, six people doing it on alarger size as a, as a group
(11:04):
activity. Um, in either ofthose cases, you see how even
though you're using the samesimple materials , um,
everybody expresses themselvesdifferently. And so it's that
metaphor that we're , we're, weall have our own way of looking
at things mm-hmm. And that helps you, you know,
see how, you know, there's manydifferent ways to solve a
(11:25):
problem. Um, we're , eventhough there's, we're, we're
working with the same material,so like, we're all so similar,
but we're all so different atthe same time. I always love
this one saying, you might haveheard of it, but it's so , it's
kind of silly, but it's sosimple and so true. It's like,
you know, you don't ever forgetthat you are your own unique
(11:46):
person. Nobody in the world isjust like you. And so you have
qualities that are so justpersonal to you, just like
everyone else does. Yeah. It islike, yeah, we're so unique,
but we're so like everyone elseat the same time. It's like ,
right.
Lauren (12:03):
Yeah. It's
Anna (12:03):
Puzzling, but it's true.
Lauren (12:06):
And , and I think, yeah, what I, what I like about
this is that, you know, you're,it's almost as though in the
very same moment people are ,um, sort of learning
self-expression or getting theopportunity to self-express
while also , um, gainingperspective about the , but
(12:27):
about other people , um, notbeing like them in every way.
Right. It's, it's, you know, soyou're, you're building
community and connection, butalso allowing someone else to ,
um, be part of that communitywithout judgment in a way. You
(12:48):
know, because a lot of, a lotof your daily interactions with
people aren't necessarilywelcoming, because
unfortunately, we live in asociety that pushes being super
busy and having to goeverywhere, and everyone feels
rushed, and then they'reviewing themselves as the
center of the universe. So whensomeone else does something,
(13:10):
it's like they're impactingthem, as opposed to like, we're
all in this together. And whatI'm hearing is that when people
, um, make art together, and Iknow Lisa and I have witnessed
this , um, anytime we've, we'vehad our , especially in our
break day , but you, you watchsort of that part of people
(13:31):
sort of drop off their bodies,right? The sort of the walls
that you build up almost toquote unquote survive your day
, uh, you know, are dismantledwhen you are sitting. And I
don't know if it's like, is itbecause you're kind of doing
something you don't normallydo? 'cause a lot of people we
get at our break day tables,some of them are super excited
(13:53):
and they know us and they wannacome and do it. Um, and they
can't believe it's happening ina public space. But a lot of
people are hesitant, right?
Like, what you described,they're like, Nope, I'm not
gonna do this. And the reasonthey do it is 'cause a friend
makes them do it. Right? Ortheir boss, like, you suggested
. Um, and, and then allof a sudden you watch it. I
(14:14):
mean, I can , you can predictat this point, 'cause we've
done it so many years, and sohave you , uh, you can see the
person and you know, what, whatsort of , uh, art, art making
personality they have. And it'sso fun to watch that get
dismantled , uh, in a shortperiod of time, you know? Yeah.
Anna (14:32):
And it is pretty quick.
It is pretty quick if you aretrained in how to facilitate
that process, which is , uh,you know what, a lot of people,
if you're an art therapist ,um, you know, you recognize
that a lot of people have noidea really what an art. People
don't understand art and theydon't understand therapy and
put those together. You know,unless you've had , unless
(14:52):
you've been an artist orexperienced the art process or
been in therapy or trained as atherapist, you know, you have
no idea really what those are.
And that's most people, right .
You know, most people think yougo to therapy and they give you
the answers. They tell you whatto do. Right. And, you know,
art is something that looks,you work till it looks great,
and then you try to sell it toa gallery, right ? So yeah, you
(15:13):
put those together and, and yetas an art therapist, we're
trained to do just what we'retalking about, help people get
out of their heads , um, out oftheir critical selves and just
experience , uh, the process ofdiscovering what happens when
you lay down some color and youdo this and you do that, and
you don't think about it ahead.
You know, you see people say, Ihave no idea what to do. Well,
(15:34):
that's the perfect place to be
Lisa (15:36):
.
Lauren (15:37):
Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . Yeah.
Lisa (15:40):
I love it. Do you know, you were talking before off
camera , we were talking aboutresearch. Do you have any like,
research? 'cause it for me,like we're talking about,
'cause we've seen it, I've seenit so many times. I always say
it's when the head goes down, , there's something
when people, you know what Imean? You're creating, and
everybody's like, you know,they're, they're in, but then
they're out. You know, they'rein and out. They're like , um,
(16:02):
is any research, oh, sorry.
Lauren (16:06):
No, I was just gonna say, it's, it's, it's because
it's not direct. I talk to mykids about this all the time. I
kiddo struggles with eyecontact, you know, 'cause it's,
and we talk about it a lot. Um,and it's 'cause it's
intimidating, you know? And forhim, it's almost like a flip
flop of intimidation. It'sbecause he's very good at
reading people and he almostlike knows right away , uh,
(16:26):
what's going on with theperson. And it's a really big
emotional rollercoaster forhim, you know? And so making
art for him is, is a reallynice way to connect with
people. Um, he sits next to hisbest friend and they read books
together. And it's because theycan be together and they can
talk. But it's not this likedirect talking. And I think
that is one of the powers ofthe art table, is that right?
(16:47):
Like you said, your head isdown, right? Mm-hmm
. Mm-hmm . But it's almost
like you have an indirect anddirect connection with someone.
Mm-hmm . But youcan talk about stuff because
you're not necessarily feelingas though you are the center of
the stage. Right. And for somepeople having a light sh you
know, shining on them is whatkind of makes them freeze, you
know? And who we could call ita trauma response. We could
(17:09):
call it a personality trait ,uh, who knows what it is. But
art kind of, I think whenyou're in the, in the making
process of art, not the showingprocess of art, the showing
process of the art isdefinitely like, here I am,
everybody. And that takes acertain kind of personality to
do that. And that's great. Imean, I've done it before. It's
fun. Um, but it's superintimidating. But when you're
(17:30):
at a, when you're in the middleof creating, right? I feel like
it's this direct and indirectat the same time. And I think
that's what you're talkingabout, right, Lisa? It's like
this dance. And so you're notso feared, maybe.
Lisa (17:47):
Yeah. There's something, and there's something about
like the what happens to thebrainwaves, Anna, if you know,
any research that could kind ofuncover that. Yes .
Anna (17:55):
Well, there, there has been some research , um, on ,
uh, cortisol and serotonin anddopamine, those kind of things.
Uh , so you take , uh, thestress hormone, cortisol, you
know, I don't know a lot about,you know, all the neurological
, uh, it's hormonal,neurological. But I do know
some because of , I wrote a , abook, this that was just came
(18:16):
out a year ago , uh,trauma-informed art activities
for early childhood. And I hadto do a lot of research , um,
because I wrote it with apublisher and I wanted it to be
a textbook , uh, for university, uh, ready . I wanted it to be
as , you know, it was all thebig biography or bibliography
(18:37):
and , um, you know , all,everything was , uh, had to be
very well researched, put itthat way. So , um, so there
have been some studies asthere's MIT of all places, you
know, MIT which is known assuch a , you know, engineering
and super think tank hub of, ofleft brain analytic thinking,
you know, from the STEMresearch. But they do a lot of
(18:57):
art and creativity , uh,research at MIT and other top
universities. Um, but MIT is ahub and , uh, there's been a ,
a research coming out of thereand other places about , um,
uh, cortisol levels decreasing,which is the stress hormone.
And , um, that's one that seemsto be easily to measure ,
(19:17):
easily measurable after say anhour of, of sustained , uh, you
know, art activity. And I thinkour therapists ha are always
trying to get more and moreresearch on board so that they
can be recognized in the worldof mental health as, as more
viable. Because there still isa question from, you know, the
lay you know, the lay publicand even professionals, like,
(19:38):
you know, what does art reallyhave to do with any of this?
You know, it , it , it's sopart of that not being
understood, but, you know,'cause art is a , is think
thought of as a thing. It'sreally a process as an
experience. It's, it'screativity and , uh, letting go
of boundaries and , uh, beingvulnerable and opening up. And
then you play with paint andlines and colors and that
(20:00):
documents your experience. Um,so it's not art as a
decoration, it's art as anexperience. Um, and that's
something that if you don'trecognize that, then it makes
no sense why art would haveanything to do with, you know,
cortisol levels.
Lauren (20:18):
Yeah. Well, what I find interesting is there, there
have been studies about like,even even going to a museum,
like you don't even have to ,that's , that leans on . Yes .
Yeah . And that leans on thefact of it being an experience,
right? Because going to amuseum is, is an art
experience, right? And so,right. It's a , it was like 45
(20:40):
minutes of art , uh, of art ,uh, what Viewing, viewing , um,
decrease , uh, decreased stresshormone cortisol. And so I
think that , um, that , butthat also ta that also ha you
have to be in the category ofunderstanding that art isn't
just something that you are ,um, viewing, as you said, like
(21:01):
from your head, you areexperiencing it, right? Mind,
body , spirit, all of it at thesame moment. Right . Um, and I
think that , uh, I mean it's,it's always interesting to me
to talk about the why, why doesspraying colored water
on a campus ? Why does it dothat? I mean, and maybe that's
(21:24):
just a way , um, philosophicalquestion that we can't answer,
you know? Um, it just does. Idon't really know, you know?
Well, when
Anna (21:33):
You think about early childhood, which is kind of my,
it became my area of expertiseover the years, which didn't
start the way. 'cause I, I ,when I studied art therapy in ,
uh, when you, when you becomean art therapist, you know, you
, it's a grad, grad schoolexperience, usually two years,
right? And I know where I wentthe first year. They expose you
to child art therapy, adult arttherapy , uh, couples group art
(21:56):
therapy, all the , all the waysthat you could practice, right?
Which is with any mental healthpractice, there's all those
different , uh, um, audiencesthat you could , uh, you know,
work with. But , um, I choseadult art therapy because I had
been a teacher already, and Ithought I just was ready to
switch it up and do somethingdifferent. So I really started
(22:18):
my career as an art therapistworking in , uh, inpatient
mental health and communitysettings for adults. But then,
you know, as, as so manycareers kind of morph over
time, I ended up , uh, focusingon the early, early years,
which I really enjoy.
Especially 'cause I had twochildren. And it's really fun
when you study art and, andwork with your own children and
(22:40):
art. I mean, it's amazing. And, um, but anyway, when you
studied the early childdevelopment, so much of it, the
sensory, you know, before our,our thought processes , our
left brain kicks in. You know,it's all about interaction,
sensory interactions with theenvironment and children, you
know, the brain developsthrough movement and sensory
interactions. That's how, so Isee those sensory play, messy
(23:03):
art, all as part of that sortof biological, you know, that
reptile brain. It's like, it ,it , it really can't unless you
have , uh, unless you're on thespectrum or have sensory, you
know , deprivation or sensory,sensory, whatever that term is,
where it, it freaks you out tohave sensory stimulation .
(23:24):
'cause you're alreadyoverstimulated , right? Mm-hmm
. Unless you're ,unless you're , that has
happened to you, right ? Um ,or you were born with that ,
uh, issue. Um, normally sensorystimulation involves all the
pleasures of life. When youthink eating or having to eat a
sunset, having the wind blowthrough your hair, you know,
they say riding a bicycle andor what ? Skiing, scuba diving,
(23:45):
all the things that involve,you know, the , um, using your
body and feeling your senses.
Mm-hmm . That'skind of , that's where so much
of the pleasure principle oflife lies. And that's where art
can come in. But people think,oh, I'm gonna make my house is
gonna be a mess. How am I gonnaclean it up? I , I have no idea
what paint to buy. It's amazinghow people don't even know what
(24:07):
paint I have. People ask me the, the , the questions that for
an art person sound like sosimple. Like, I have somebody
recently , um, my daughter'sfriend had bought a surfboard,
an old surfboard at a , um, ata thrift shop or something that
she wanted to paint not to usethis airport . It was very old.
And she said, ask your mom whatkind of paint . She
said, I've got some liquidwater. I've got some, you know,
(24:30):
watercolor strips around . It's like, I think ,
I forget how people have noidea what temper paint is, or
watercolor or acrylic or whatwould I use acrylic ? They have
no idea. 'cause why would they,you know, it was never the
thing.
Lauren (24:46):
Right. Wouldn't it be nice though if we lived in a
world where that was just likepart of our society, like
eating an apple you just knew,right? Like this is paint and
Yeah.
Lisa (24:58):
What I love what you're talking about is creativity is
almost like epicurious meaningit's, it, it is sensory. I
don't think people look at itas that. I think what you were
, you keep alluding to is likeart . It's in a museum,
I can't do it. You know what Imean? It's, so there seems like
a separation, but Lauren , youjust said it, what if art is
like eating an apple? It's thatsensation. It's epicurious.
(25:21):
It's like, ah , that's whatlife is. It makes life more
colorful, more beautiful.
Anna (25:26):
Yeah. Who doesn't love a sunset? I mean, you know ,
maybe some people don't, Idon't, I haven't met that
person yet, right ?
Lauren (25:32):
Yeah . Right. And right. It's because it's this,
yeah. It's this way of gettingin, in tune with, right? And we
talked about this before. It'slike your , it's your
connection with, with howyou're alive, right? So if you
are mm-hmm . Um,if you're experiencing all your
senses in one moment, it , it'ssort of like what connects you
(25:54):
with, with life and thenperhaps with the life around
you. And maybe that's why whenpeople make art together,
right? It's almost as thoughyou are experiencing being
alive as a person, but also aslike a community. Um, it's that
(26:15):
reminder that we are allconnected. You know, we, we are
all in this together. And it,and sometimes certain things
may make us feel like we're not, um, certain structures in the
way that society is , um,created or talked about or
things like that. But, youknow, when you take that
moment, you press that pausebutton and you open up , um,
(26:39):
you know, it's that reminderthat almost like you matter,
but we matter on a grander ,um, you know, context. Yeah.
Yeah.
Lisa (26:51):
Beautiful. It's like I'm , it's like I see you.
You know what I mean? It'salmost like that. And then what
you create
Anna (26:58):
I do . I hear you. And what you say matters to me.
Yeah . That's , uh, one ofthose old , uh, yeah . Bottom
line elements. Yeah. Yeah .
Lauren (27:07):
Yeah. And it's, and it , I mean, and that is right. I
mean, and , and if there'sanything we need right now, you
know, I think that's what weneed. We need people to feel as
though they are, they're worthyof being seen and they're
worthy of being heard. And that, um, you know, what you have
to say does matter. You know?
Um, and that , uh, you know,maybe gathering together to ,
(27:31):
um, express those feelings andthose thoughts and things like
that might, well, we know thethree of us know that it would,
we would end up with a positive, um, outcome. You know? Um,
it's just getting the people inthe room, right?
Anna (27:45):
Yeah, that's right. It's getting them to realize there's
something in it for them. And Ithink , um, you know , little
by little, I know when I , um,see these groups of teachers,
you know, I know that that'sgonna have a ripple effect
because so many of them, youknow , do say, oh, this is more
fun than I thought. Right ? And, um, you know, that the next
time something comes around,they're gonna be just a little
(28:07):
more open to it because thatactually wasn't so bad.
. Yeah. That's really success and
Lauren (28:14):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I , I like that. 'cause like in our,
in our previous , um,conversation, we were talking
about how important theconversation is, you know, and
, um, right. It's like firstyou kind of talk, talk about
it, and people, like you weresaying, people just don't ,
some people don't even know ,um, what art is. Right? That's
what we've been talking about,that the whole time where they
(28:34):
have art in this one categorymm-hmm . Um , and
, and the category is I can'tdo it. Right? So then if we
keep telling people, we keeptalking about it, well, you
don't have to do it in thatway, but you can do it in this
way. And just sort ofintroducing 'em mentally to the
concept of it, right? That's agood first step. And then the
second step is getting theminto the room and to sit down
(28:56):
at the table. And then oncethey do that, mo most people ,
uh, you know, will , will tryit again. Um, you know, and so
I love that. I love the idea ofjust like, even just being out
there, even the people that ,um, maybe walk by when you're
doing something and they aren'tdoing it, but at least the fact
(29:16):
that it's there opens them up alittle bit more to the notion
of maybe doing it at a laterdate, you know? Uh, so yeah, I
mean, I , I , to me it's likeblowing a trumpet, like keep
doing it. Everyonekeep, keep offering it, you
know, the world needs it.
Anna (29:35):
Definitely
Lisa (29:36):
For me, what I , what comes up for me, it's like art
is medicine and it works indifferent ways. It doesn't, it
, it doesn't work like. You don't have to draw the
apple like an apple for it towork. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah . On your psyche, on your,on your physical being, on your
hormones, on a whatever, youcan do it. You can just do the
color. You can, you know what Imean? So that's so non
(29:56):
intimidating . Excuse me. Nonintimidating , you
know? Yeah . You can just throwcolors on canvas and boom, you
know, you're, you're feelingbetter. So, wow.
Lauren (30:06):
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (30:07):
So Anna, yeah, I was just gonna say, tell, tell people
how they can, you know, connectwith you and , um, your
offerings and , um, I mean,you're doing beautiful work, so
Anna (30:19):
Thank you. Thank you.
It's fun to be here and I'vefollowed you for so many years.
Yeah . And I'm so glad you'redoing what you're doing. So my
, uh, business is , um,creative play la and it's LA
because I'm in Los Angeles. And, um, there was a time that I ,
uh, before I ever did virtualtrainings with art, I, I never
(30:40):
thought I would do virtualtrainings with art or all these
podcast things. And, you know,so much is available after
Covid and we became so facilewith Zoom and all the other
platforms, teams and all thatstuff. Um, so I used to just do
, uh, trainings in Californiawhere I've lived for 40 years.
And , um, I'm well networkedwithin the , um, within the ,
(31:00):
um, uh, education market herein California. So a lot of
people have heard my name'cause I've, for decades I've
been doing art workshops atconferences for educators in
California. Um, and so my nameAnna Reyner, I always like to
think I'm a big fish in a smallpool of people who work in
early education, have probablyheard, they maybe don't know my
(31:21):
name, but they think she's thatart person,. And we're
gonna do some hands on art. Ifwe go to her workshop, we're
not gonna talk about art orlook at slides. We're gonna
make Art . And so I'm,I'm pretty well known in
California in this market , um,as just my name. So if you
Google my name , uh, you'll,you'll find a bunch of stuff up
there. But I, I do have a , a ,a website that I've worked hard
(31:45):
on. It's very colorful and Ihave a lot of , uh, handouts. I
have three eBooks that are freeand one, including one now that
I love. I gotta say, you know,to toot my own horn, it's
called , um, the Healing Powerof Art or something like that.
Anyway, I made it down intoebook and it's art therapy
condensed with colors and Imade it on Canva and then I had
it professionally made into anebook and you can download it
(32:07):
for free. I think it's calledHow the Arts , how Art Heals
Us. That's Heals Us . It's myfavorite. Nice . And I wrote a
book that was published ontrauma informed art for early
childhood , um, which is alsoon there, but you can just look
up Creative Play LA and you'llfind me there. Awesome.
Lauren (32:24):
Fantastic. Alright .
Thank you so much for takingthe time to talk to us today.
Anna (32:28):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me. It's been fun.
Yes.
Okay, everybody, welcome to our Take an Art Break
Podcast. We're really excitedtoday. We're here with Anna
Reiner . And Anna, introduceyourself,
Anna (00:12):
Please . Okay, I'll do that. Thanks. So, I'm Anna
Reyner, if you don't mind. It'sall right . And we said Reyner
Shine is one way you canremember. Oh, I like that.
been an art therapist and anart teacher and a teacher of
various other types of , uh,content. I used to be an
English teacher. I love art andlanguage together. But anyway,
(00:34):
I've worked in human servicesall my life , um, in many
capacities. But art has alwaysbeen the common thread, and I
really , uh, enormously valuethe , uh, the impact of art on
wellbeing , um, on mentalhealth, social emotional
health, and on how it art canconnect people to each other,
(00:55):
how we can connect to our realself. It's , it helps us sort
of engage and activate ourauthentic self . But I think in
this day and age now, whenwe're all feeling very
isolated, especially after the, uh, covid lockdown pandemic ,
um, but also just modernsociety, we're so hooked on our
screens and, and our to-dolist, because life is so
(01:19):
overstimulating. Things that wegotta do, gotta get done, gotta
get done. And sometimes weforget the , um, value of
making authentic connectionswith other people. And , uh,
sometimes people we know, andsometimes new people, if we go
to an , some kind of artgathering and we're around
people we've never met before ,um, simple art activities can
(01:41):
help us feel seen. And that'swhat I think we all desperately
want. We want to be seen, wewant to be acknowledged and ,
uh, valued and in an authenticway. And art really enables us
to do that. Yeah . So mybusiness is , um, I have a
business that , uh, I've been atrainer for many, many years,
(02:01):
decades, I I say between 35 and40 years as an educator myself,
who then became a therapist,which I think is not uncommon
when people who are interestedin education or social sciences
of any type, oftentimes they'realso interested in therapy. I
was one of those people. So artwas my key interest. Then I
(02:23):
loved working with people, so Ilove worked with children and
adults, and , um, I think Ialways loved that connection.
So I loved being creative, andI loved the connection. You
know, a lot of artists who arefine artists, studio artists,
work in isolation, because insome ways that's just the life
of an artist. It's, you'regoing deeply into your own form
(02:44):
of expression and, you know,creation. But , um, and I tried
that when I was younger, but I,I was lonely. I, I missed the
connection. I miss , I misssocial. I guess I'm , I have
that little bit of extroversionin me,
you know, a connection. Mm-hmm
found that art therapy , uh,and art education was a way to
(03:06):
be creative and also connect.
So , um, so I don't know if youwanted to ask me another
questions, but I can just goand talk about
Lauren (03:16):
Yeah. Um , well , we like , yeah. I love that. Thank
you for introducing yourself,and I love everything you've
mentioned so far. Yeah. Weusually use a question as a
jumping off point for aconversation, and then just
where it goes . Um, it's beenworking out for several years
now, so. Good, good,
Anna (03:33):
Good. Yeah . You've been , you've been in it for a long
time, and it Yeah, I'm gladhave the follow you have
growing following. Yeah.
Lauren (03:40):
Yeah. So , um, I wa I wanted to ask you , uh, what
happens when groups gather andmake art? I mean, it's great
jumping off point from what youmentioned about the creativity
and connections. So what haveyou, have you noticed that
happens when you do get groupstogether and they gather and
they make art together? Whathappens?
Anna (03:59):
Well, you know, art is like the secret sauce to
connection. And in groups when,especially when people don't
know each other or know , don'tknow each other well. And I say
that because I do now, and forthe last five years, I have ,
um, worked as a teacher trainerfor teachers who come together
(04:20):
for their professionaldevelopment needs because they
work in school districts, orthey work in head start
agencies, or they work withchildren. Um, but they have
once or twice a year, all the ,uh, the classrooms will stop
and they'll have professionaldevelopment days. Hmm . So
depending on your schooldistrict, you'll have one day
or two days, or sometimes thewhole week. Uh, I know I live
(04:41):
in Los Angeles and the schooldistricts here will close, you
know, for up almost a week, Ithink, before school starts,
and that's when they bringtrainers in. And I have a
business that , uh, uses art toshow those teachers how to be
better teachers, more effectiveteachers, and how to address
the social emotional needs ofthe children that they're
(05:04):
teaching. So we assume ineducation, especially working
with younger children, and I'mtalking about preschool through
early elementary , um, earlychildhood is defined up until
age eight. So it's first,second, and third grade and
preschool, that's whenchildren's minds are developing
, uh, at their fastest rate.
And they do a lot of hands-onlearning to accelerate their,
(05:26):
the growth of their, theirneurons and their , um, brain
pathways and the , theirfoundational , uh, you know,
brain capacity gets determinedin those early years. So I work
with teachers who work in thowith those children. And so I
have groups of teacherssometimes as many as 250 at a
time I did recently , um, youknow, more often with 25 or 50
(05:50):
at a time. And I do a lot ofdifferent trainings, but I'm
always using art materials as apart of the training. So now I
do, I do a lot of creativityand connection workshops. One
that , uh, is very popular isjust called Renew Your Passion.
And it's art for the teachersthemselves or the caregivers.
'cause you know, noteverybody's a teacher, but many
(06:11):
people work in a, in a care ,in a nurturing position. You
know, whether they are socialworkers or teachers or, you
know, there's so many, whetheryou're a nurse, whether you're
a firefighter, there's so manywhat you would call service
professions where you'rehelping other people and
working with other people. And, um, and those, the , those
(06:32):
are people in, in that field.
Those of us who are educatorsor therapists , um, have a lot
of stress because we have thesecondary stress of the people
we're working with to help themget out through their stress.
We have our own collectivestress. And that's, you know,
that's a recognized , uh, it'skind of a , a form of, of mild
, I , it's not necessarily Maya, but it's a generalized form
(06:55):
of PTSD . Um, what happens,it's care for the caregiver,
uhhuh and teachers, A lot oftimes people don't realize
teachers are caregivers.
They're educating, but they'realso dealing with children's ,
um, the social emotionalfoundation, how I feel about
myself, how I, how I relate toothers. How does the world see
(07:15):
me? Do I fit in the world? Do Ihave a place? And , um, so
given that teachers often getburned out, especially after ,
um, the Covid pandemic , um,when everybody's nerves are
kind of fried , uh, because ofthe pandemic overload of trauma
, um, you know, teachers aredesperate to make connections
(07:37):
and get in touch with their owncreativity. So get back ,
getting back to your question,Laurel , uh, Lauren, what do I
see when I do those workshops?
I see those, these sparksstarting to fire, not in the
beginning, because if you givemost adults a piece of black
paper and stuff to play with,you know, they're like, I can
draw. I'm not an artist.
(07:59):
why did my manager make me goto this? Yeah . I hate art. I
was never good at it. Or, youknow, something I hear , you
know, we've heard it all. Yes.
In fact , so often it's , it'slike a broken record. People
will come into the training,I'll have everything set up
with some nice inviting, youknow, very express, like the
(08:20):
things you see behind me. I'mnot doing what most people
think of as art. I'm doinglines , shapes and colors.
Mm-hmm
therapists do,
and not think about it. Right .
You know? And , uh, so peoplecome in and it's , so often
people say just like, they seeme setting up and they say, oh,
I'm not an artist. I can'tdraw. And like, like, just to
(08:44):
warn you, this is not my thing.
of the hour or two hours,depending on, you know, how
long the workshop is, thosesame people will say, you know,
I was, this is more fun than Ithought it would be. And that's
what I know that, okay, I'vedone my job to help open up
people's attitudes about theirown ability to enjoy this. And,
(09:07):
and, and then on a , a pointthat , um, that I think is so
important to make is theconnections and how when people
are loosening up, and I'm doinga lot of those, loosening up
with liquid, watercolor, loosenup with, you know, doodling,
scribbling, getting a lot ofmotion in there. Um, I always
(09:27):
say the more of your body youget involved, the better.
'cause you wanna get out ofyour head . And , um, and you
see people starting to relaxand connect and enjoy just
talking with each other, peeach other in a relaxed
fashion. You know, you see,there's so much, there's so
much that happens and, and it'snot, art is not what people
(09:48):
think it is. And, and theseworkshops help them realize
that.
Lisa (09:52):
Yeah . I love that. Uh , what comes up for me is , um,
an understanding of empathy. It, you know, when you were
talking about like , um,teachers as caregivers or
people that are in the serviceindustry where they're
absorbing other people's energyand they don't know it. So do
you feel that art , um, helpsyou understand the po you know,
(10:13):
and it's empathy towardsyourself as well, right? Yeah,
yeah,
Anna (10:17):
Yeah. You know, it is, it's such a, it's , it's such a
metaphor, say , just because ofthis thing happens to be behind
me on the wall, right ? Um,this is just swirls of color
that have been sprayed througha spray bottle. So it's liquid
paint, it's literally liquidwatercolor and a big , uh, I
think it's a four by eightpaint tarp, right? Mm-hmm
(10:41):
I'm spraying and swirling somedrizzles on top. So if I , um,
do a smaller version of thosewith a group of 50 people or
250 people , um, excuse me,where everybody's, you know,
we're doing those kinds ofthings on a, on a more reduced
size, or perhaps they'restanding around with a group of
four, six people doing it on alarger size as a, as a group
(11:04):
activity. Um, in either ofthose cases, you see how even
though you're using the samesimple materials , um,
everybody expresses themselvesdifferently. And so it's that
metaphor that we're , we're, weall have our own way of looking
at things mm-hmm
see how, you know, there's manydifferent ways to solve a
(11:25):
problem. Um, we're , eventhough there's, we're, we're
working with the same material,so like, we're all so similar,
but we're all so different atthe same time. I always love
this one saying, you might haveheard of it, but it's so , it's
kind of silly, but it's sosimple and so true. It's like,
you know, you don't ever forgetthat you are your own unique
(11:46):
person. Nobody in the world isjust like you. And so you have
qualities that are so justpersonal to you, just like
everyone else does. Yeah. It islike, yeah, we're so unique,
but we're so like everyone elseat the same time. It's like ,
right.
Lauren (12:03):
Yeah. It's
Anna (12:03):
Puzzling, but it's true.
Lauren (12:06):
And , and I think, yeah, what I, what I like about
this is that, you know, you're,it's almost as though in the
very same moment people are ,um, sort of learning
self-expression or getting theopportunity to self-express
while also , um, gainingperspective about the , but
(12:27):
about other people , um, notbeing like them in every way.
Right. It's, it's, you know, soyou're, you're building
community and connection, butalso allowing someone else to ,
um, be part of that communitywithout judgment in a way. You
(12:48):
know, because a lot of, a lotof your daily interactions with
people aren't necessarilywelcoming
unfortunately, we live in asociety that pushes being super
busy and having to goeverywhere, and everyone feels
rushed, and then they'reviewing themselves as the
center of the universe. So whensomeone else does something,
(13:10):
it's like they're impactingthem, as opposed to like, we're
all in this together. And whatI'm hearing is that when people
, um, make art together, and Iknow Lisa and I have witnessed
this , um, anytime we've, we'vehad our , especially in our
break day , but you, you watchsort of that part of people
(13:31):
sort of drop off their bodies,right? The sort of the walls
that you build up almost toquote unquote survive your day
, uh, you know, are dismantledwhen you are sitting. And I
don't know if it's like, is itbecause you're kind of doing
something you don't normallydo? 'cause a lot of people we
get at our break day tables,some of them are super excited
(13:53):
and they know us and they wannacome and do it. Um, and they
can't believe it's happening ina public space. But a lot of
people are hesitant, right?
Like, what you described,they're like, Nope, I'm not
gonna do this. And the reasonthey do it is 'cause a friend
makes them do it. Right? Ortheir boss, like, you suggested
(14:14):
mean, I can , you can predictat this point, 'cause we've
done it so many years, and sohave you , uh, you can see the
person and you know, what, whatsort of , uh, art, art making
personality they have. And it'sso fun to watch that get
dismantled , uh, in a shortperiod of time, you know? Yeah.
Anna (14:32):
And it is pretty quick.
It is pretty quick if you aretrained in how to facilitate
that process, which is , uh,you know what, a lot of people,
if you're an art therapist ,um, you know, you recognize
that a lot of people have noidea really what an art. People
don't understand art and theydon't understand therapy and
put those together. You know,unless you've had , unless
(14:52):
you've been an artist orexperienced the art process or
been in therapy or trained as atherapist, you know, you have
no idea really what those are.
And that's most people, right .
You know, most people think yougo to therapy and they give you
the answers. They tell you whatto do. Right. And, you know,
art is something that looks,you work till it looks great,
and then you try to sell it toa gallery, right ? So yeah, you
(15:13):
put those together and, and yetas an art therapist, we're
trained to do just what we'retalking about, help people get
out of their heads , um, out oftheir critical selves and just
experience , uh, the process ofdiscovering what happens when
you lay down some color and youdo this and you do that, and
you don't think about it ahead.
You know, you see people say, Ihave no idea what to do. Well,
(15:34):
that's the perfect place to be
Lisa (15:36):
Lauren (15:37):
Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . Yeah.
Lisa (15:40):
I love it. Do you know, you were talking before off
camera , we were talking aboutresearch. Do you have any like,
research? 'cause it for me,like we're talking about,
'cause we've seen it, I've seenit so many times. I always say
it's when the head goes down,
when people, you know what Imean? You're creating, and
everybody's like, you know,they're, they're in, but then
they're out. You know, they'rein and out. They're like , um,
(16:02):
is any research, oh, sorry.
Lauren (16:06):
No, I was just gonna say, it's, it's, it's because
it's not direct. I talk to mykids about this all the time. I
kiddo struggles with eyecontact, you know, 'cause it's,
and we talk about it a lot. Um,and it's 'cause it's
intimidating, you know? And forhim, it's almost like a flip
flop of intimidation. It'sbecause he's very good at
reading people and he almostlike knows right away , uh,
(16:26):
what's going on with theperson. And it's a really big
emotional rollercoaster forhim, you know? And so making
art for him is, is a reallynice way to connect with
people. Um, he sits next to hisbest friend and they read books
together. And it's because theycan be together and they can
talk. But it's not this likedirect talking. And I think
that is one of the powers ofthe art table, is that right?
(16:47):
Like you said, your head isdown, right? Mm-hmm
like you have an indirect anddirect connection with someone.
Mm-hmm
you're not necessarily feelingas though you are the center of
the stage. Right. And for somepeople having a light sh you
know, shining on them is whatkind of makes them freeze, you
know? And who we could call ita trauma response. We could
(17:09):
call it a personality trait ,uh, who knows what it is. But
art kind of, I think whenyou're in the, in the making
process of art, not the showingprocess of art, the showing
process of the art isdefinitely like, here I am,
everybody. And that takes acertain kind of personality to
do that. And that's great. Imean, I've done it before. It's
fun. Um, but it's superintimidating. But when you're
(17:30):
at a, when you're in the middleof creating, right? I feel like
it's this direct and indirectat the same time. And I think
that's what you're talkingabout, right, Lisa? It's like
this dance. And so you're notso feared, maybe.
Lisa (17:47):
Yeah. There's something, and there's something about
like the what happens to thebrainwaves, Anna, if you know,
any research that could kind ofuncover that. Yes .
Anna (17:55):
Well, there, there has been some research , um, on ,
uh, cortisol and serotonin anddopamine, those kind of things.
Uh , so you take , uh, thestress hormone, cortisol, you
know, I don't know a lot about,you know, all the neurological
, uh, it's hormonal,neurological. But I do know
some because of , I wrote a , abook, this that was just came
(18:16):
out a year ago , uh,trauma-informed art activities
for early childhood. And I hadto do a lot of research , um,
because I wrote it with apublisher and I wanted it to be
a textbook , uh, for university, uh, ready . I wanted it to be
as , you know, it was all thebig biography or bibliography
(18:37):
and , um, you know , all,everything was , uh, had to be
very well researched, put itthat way. So , um, so there
have been some studies asthere's MIT of all places, you
know, MIT which is known assuch a , you know, engineering
and super think tank hub of, ofleft brain analytic thinking,
you know, from the STEMresearch. But they do a lot of
(18:57):
art and creativity , uh,research at MIT and other top
universities. Um, but MIT is ahub and , uh, there's been a ,
a research coming out of thereand other places about , um,
uh, cortisol levels decreasing,which is the stress hormone.
And , um, that's one that seemsto be easily to measure ,
(19:17):
easily measurable after say anhour of, of sustained , uh, you
know, art activity. And I thinkour therapists ha are always
trying to get more and moreresearch on board so that they
can be recognized in the worldof mental health as, as more
viable. Because there still isa question from, you know, the
lay you know, the lay publicand even professionals, like,
(19:38):
you know, what does art reallyhave to do with any of this?
You know, it , it , it's sopart of that not being
understood, but, you know,'cause art is a , is think
thought of as a thing. It'sreally a process as an
experience. It's, it'screativity and , uh, letting go
of boundaries and , uh, beingvulnerable and opening up. And
then you play with paint andlines and colors and that
(20:00):
documents your experience. Um,so it's not art as a
decoration, it's art as anexperience. Um, and that's
something that if you don'trecognize that, then it makes
no sense why art would haveanything to do with, you know,
cortisol levels.
Lauren (20:18):
Yeah. Well, what I find interesting is there, there
have been studies about like,even even going to a museum,
like you don't even have to ,that's , that leans on . Yes .
Yeah . And that leans on thefact of it being an experience,
right? Because going to amuseum is, is an art
experience, right? And so,right. It's a , it was like 45
(20:40):
minutes of art , uh, of art ,uh, what Viewing, viewing , um,
decrease , uh, decreased stresshormone cortisol. And so I
think that , um, that , butthat also ta that also ha you
have to be in the category ofunderstanding that art isn't
just something that you are ,um, viewing, as you said, like
(21:01):
from your head, you areexperiencing it, right? Mind,
body , spirit, all of it at thesame moment. Right . Um, and I
think that , uh, I mean it's,it's always interesting to me
to talk about the why, why doesspraying colored water
on a campus ? Why does it dothat? I mean, and maybe that's
(21:24):
just a way , um, philosophicalquestion that we can't answer,
you know? Um, it just does. Idon't really know, you know?
Well, when
Anna (21:33):
You think about early childhood, which is kind of my,
it became my area of expertiseover the years, which didn't
start the way. 'cause I, I ,when I studied art therapy in ,
uh, when you, when you becomean art therapist, you know, you
, it's a grad, grad schoolexperience, usually two years,
right? And I know where I wentthe first year. They expose you
to child art therapy, adult arttherapy , uh, couples group art
(21:56):
therapy, all the , all the waysthat you could practice, right?
Which is with any mental healthpractice, there's all those
different , uh, um, audiencesthat you could , uh, you know,
work with. But , um, I choseadult art therapy because I had
been a teacher already, and Ithought I just was ready to
switch it up and do somethingdifferent. So I really started
(22:18):
my career as an art therapistworking in , uh, inpatient
mental health and communitysettings for adults. But then,
you know, as, as so manycareers kind of morph over
time, I ended up , uh, focusingon the early, early years,
which I really enjoy.
Especially 'cause I had twochildren. And it's really fun
when you study art and, andwork with your own children and
(22:40):
art. I mean, it's amazing. And, um, but anyway, when you
studied the early childdevelopment, so much of it, the
sensory, you know, before our,our thought processes , our
left brain kicks in. You know,it's all about interaction,
sensory interactions with theenvironment and children, you
know, the brain developsthrough movement and sensory
interactions. That's how, so Isee those sensory play, messy
(23:03):
art, all as part of that sortof biological, you know, that
reptile brain. It's like, it ,it , it really can't unless you
have , uh, unless you're on thespectrum or have sensory, you
know , deprivation or sensory,sensory, whatever that term is,
where it, it freaks you out tohave sensory stimulation .
(23:24):
'cause you're alreadyoverstimulated , right? Mm-hmm
happened to you, right ? Um ,or you were born with that ,
uh, issue. Um, normally sensorystimulation involves all the
pleasures of life. When youthink eating or having to eat a
sunset, having the wind blowthrough your hair, you know,
they say riding a bicycle andor what ? Skiing, scuba diving,
(23:45):
all the things that involve,you know, the , um, using your
body and feeling your senses.
Mm-hmm
of the pleasure principle oflife lies. And that's where art
can come in. But people think,oh, I'm gonna make my house is
gonna be a mess. How am I gonnaclean it up? I , I have no idea
what paint to buy. It's amazinghow people don't even know what
(24:07):
paint I have. People ask me the, the , the questions that for
an art person sound like sosimple. Like, I have somebody
recently , um, my daughter'sfriend had bought a surfboard,
an old surfboard at a , um, ata thrift shop or something that
she wanted to paint not to usethis airport . It was very old.
And she said, ask your mom whatkind of paint
said, I've got some liquidwater. I've got some, you know,
(24:30):
watercolor strips around
I forget how people have noidea what temper paint is, or
watercolor or acrylic or whatwould I use acrylic ? They have
no idea. 'cause why would they,you know, it was never the
thing.
Lauren (24:46):
Right. Wouldn't it be nice though if we lived in a
world where that was just likepart of our society, like
eating an apple you just knew,right? Like this is paint and
Yeah.
Lisa (24:58):
What I love what you're talking about is creativity is
almost like epicurious meaningit's, it, it is sensory. I
don't think people look at itas that. I think what you were
, you keep alluding to is likeart
I can't do it. You know what Imean? It's, so there seems like
a separation, but Lauren , youjust said it, what if art is
like eating an apple? It's thatsensation. It's epicurious.
(25:21):
It's like, ah , that's whatlife is. It makes life more
colorful, more beautiful.
Anna (25:26):
Yeah. Who doesn't love a sunset? I mean, you know ,
maybe some people don't, Idon't, I haven't met that
person yet, right ?
Lauren (25:32):
Yeah . Right. And right. It's because it's this,
yeah. It's this way of gettingin, in tune with, right? And we
talked about this before. It'slike your , it's your
connection with, with howyou're alive, right? So if you
are mm-hmm
senses in one moment, it , it'ssort of like what connects you
(25:54):
with, with life and thenperhaps with the life around
you. And maybe that's why whenpeople make art together,
right? It's almost as thoughyou are experiencing being
alive as a person, but also aslike a community. Um, it's that
(26:15):
reminder that we are allconnected. You know, we, we are
all in this together. And it,and sometimes certain things
may make us feel like we're not, um, certain structures in the
way that society is , um,created or talked about or
things like that. But, youknow, when you take that
moment, you press that pausebutton and you open up , um,
(26:39):
you know, it's that reminderthat almost like you matter,
but we matter on a grander ,um, you know, context. Yeah.
Yeah.
Lisa (26:51):
Beautiful. It's like I'm , it's like I see you
You know what I mean? It'salmost like that. And then what
you create
Anna (26:58):
I do . I hear you. And what you say matters to me.
Yeah . That's , uh, one ofthose old , uh, yeah . Bottom
line elements. Yeah. Yeah .
Lauren (27:07):
Yeah. And it's, and it , I mean, and that is right. I
mean, and , and if there'sanything we need right now, you
know, I think that's what weneed. We need people to feel as
though they are, they're worthyof being seen and they're
worthy of being heard. And that, um, you know, what you have
to say does matter. You know?
Um, and that , uh, you know,maybe gathering together to ,
(27:31):
um, express those feelings andthose thoughts and things like
that might, well, we know thethree of us know that it would,
we would end up with a positive, um, outcome. You know? Um,
it's just getting the people inthe room, right?
Anna (27:45):
Yeah, that's right. It's getting them to realize there's
something in it for them. And Ithink , um, you know , little
by little, I know when I , um,see these groups of teachers,
you know, I know that that'sgonna have a ripple effect
because so many of them, youknow , do say, oh, this is more
fun than I thought. Right ? And, um, you know, that the next
time something comes around,they're gonna be just a little
(28:07):
more open to it because thatactually wasn't so bad.
. Yeah. That's really success
Lauren (28:14):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I , I like that. 'cause like in our,
in our previous , um,conversation, we were talking
about how important theconversation is, you know, and
, um, right. It's like firstyou kind of talk, talk about
it, and people, like you weresaying, people just don't ,
some people don't even know ,um, what art is. Right? That's
what we've been talking about,that the whole time where they
(28:34):
have art in this one categorymm-hmm
, and the category is I can'tdo it. Right? So then if we
keep telling people, we keeptalking about it, well, you
don't have to do it in thatway, but you can do it in this
way. And just sort ofintroducing 'em mentally to the
concept of it, right? That's agood first step. And then the
second step is getting theminto the room and to sit down
(28:56):
at the table. And then oncethey do that, mo most people ,
uh, you know, will , will tryit again. Um, you know, and so
I love that. I love the idea ofjust like, even just being out
there, even the people that ,um, maybe walk by when you're
doing something and they aren'tdoing it, but at least the fact
(29:16):
that it's there opens them up alittle bit more to the notion
of maybe doing it at a laterdate, you know? Uh, so yeah, I
mean, I , I , to me it's likeblowing a trumpet, like keep
doing it. Everyone
know, the world needs it.
Anna (29:35):
Definitely
Lisa (29:36):
For me, what I , what comes up for me, it's like art
is medicine and it works indifferent ways. It doesn't, it
, it doesn't work like
apple like an apple for it towork. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah . On your psyche, on your,on your physical being, on your
hormones, on a whatever, youcan do it. You can just do the
color. You can, you know what Imean? So that's so non
(29:56):
intimidating . Excuse me. Nonintimidating
know? Yeah . You can just throwcolors on canvas and boom, you
know, you're, you're feelingbetter. So, wow.
Lauren (30:06):
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (30:07):
So Anna, yeah, I was just gonna say, tell, tell people
how they can, you know, connectwith you and , um, your
offerings and , um, I mean,you're doing beautiful work, so
Anna (30:19):
Thank you. Thank you.
It's fun to be here and I'vefollowed you for so many years.
Yeah . And I'm so glad you'redoing what you're doing. So my
, uh, business is , um,creative play la and it's LA
because I'm in Los Angeles. And, um, there was a time that I ,
uh, before I ever did virtualtrainings with art, I, I never
(30:40):
thought I would do virtualtrainings with art or all these
podcast things. And, you know,so much is available after
Covid and we became so facilewith Zoom and all the other
platforms, teams and all thatstuff. Um, so I used to just do
, uh, trainings in Californiawhere I've lived for 40 years.
And , um, I'm well networkedwithin the , um, within the ,
(31:00):
um, uh, education market herein California. So a lot of
people have heard my name'cause I've, for decades I've
been doing art workshops atconferences for educators in
California. Um, and so my nameAnna Reyner, I always like to
think I'm a big fish in a smallpool of people who work in
early education, have probablyheard, they maybe don't know my
(31:21):
name, but they think she's thatart person,
gonna do some hands on art. Ifwe go to her workshop, we're
not gonna talk about art orlook at slides. We're gonna
make Art
California in this market , um,as just my name. So if you
Google my name , uh, you'll,you'll find a bunch of stuff up
there. But I, I do have a , a ,a website that I've worked hard
(31:45):
on. It's very colorful and Ihave a lot of , uh, handouts. I
have three eBooks that are freeand one, including one now that
I love. I gotta say, you know,to toot my own horn, it's
called , um, the Healing Powerof Art or something like that.
Anyway, I made it down intoebook and it's art therapy
condensed with colors and Imade it on Canva and then I had
it professionally made into anebook and you can download it
(32:07):
for free. I think it's calledHow the Arts , how Art Heals
Us. That's Heals Us . It's myfavorite. Nice . And I wrote a
book that was published ontrauma informed art for early
childhood , um, which is alsoon there, but you can just look
up Creative Play LA and you'llfind me there. Awesome.
Lauren (32:24):
Fantastic. Alright .
Thank you so much for takingthe time to talk to us today.
Anna (32:28):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me. It's been fun.
Yes.
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