What role can art and music play when a community suffers a crisis?

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 Lisa and Lauren are joined by Stacie Aamon Yeldell to discuss the ongoing situation in Los Angeles, California, following the wildfires. They reflect on the devastating impact on local communities and the emotional toll on residents as they navigate recovery challenges, including temporary displacements, uncertainty about rebuilding their homes, and potential environmental changes affecting the area in the future. This is the first episode of a two-part podcast series with Stacie. It begins by exploring the importance of discussing trauma and normalizing the emotions surrounding it. The conversation then shifts to finding a path toward healing by learning how to ask yourself, "What do you need?" and meeting those needs with the resources available. The second episode will delve deeper into Stacie's workbook, offering guidance and hope to the LA community and beyond. 

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Episode Transcript

Lisa (00:00):
Hello everybody. This is Lisa and
Lauren from Artist Moving . Weare so excited. Today we have a
special guest named Stacy Yael. Did I say that right, Stacy ?

Stacie (00:11):
Yes , you did. You nailed it. All

Lisa (00:12):
Right . If you please just introduce yourself and ,
um, and then we'll have a chat.

Stacie (00:18):
Hello everyone. Um, my name is Stacie Amman Del , and
I'm a board certified musicpsychotherapist , uh, sound
healing vocalist, as well as afounder of , uh, my own
company, which is called aMantra, music and Wellness.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Nice. It's nice to meet you, Stacy . Um ,

Stacie (00:37):
Nice to meet you too, . Thanks for having

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Me. Yeah, thanks for being here. Uh, so we wanted to
, uh, use one question as astarting off point , um, and it
seems very timely consideringwhat's going on in both you ,
Lisa, and your neck of thewoods with the , uh, fires in
la . Um, we wanted to ask youabout what role art and music

(00:59):
can play , um, in a communityafter they experience a crisis.

Stacie (01:04):
Mm-hmm .

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah.

Stacie (01:06):
Yes. I mean, that's a really great question. Yeah .
And it's good that we're askingit. Mm-hmm . Um , because I
think what we're realizing moreand more is that, you know, art
and music and creativity , um,is a necessity. Right? It's not
a luxury thing. Um, I've, Ithink that's the first thing to
kind of start this answer withis what I'm hearing is to just

(01:28):
recognize first that we live ina culture that separates art
and creativity from us. Um, itdoles it out to only certain
people that are talented orgifted or inclined. Mm-hmm
. And that is the, a belief system of the West ,
um, that we are ingrained withfrom, you know, the beginning ,
uh, since, since, you know, assoon as we're born and we're,

(01:50):
and we start to grow up, thosekinds of ideas , uh, begin to
circulate. So I thinkunderstanding that we
oftentimes start off with this, uh, not everybody, but some
of us start off with this ideathat we aren't creative, right?
Yeah . Or that we aren'tcreative people, and, but
creativity is actually , uh,uh, an innate gift that we're

(02:12):
all born with. We all have theability to create, we are
creator beings, and the ideathat we don't have access to
our creativity is a beliefsystem. And again, it's from
the west. To give you a littlebit of contrast, when I spent a
lot of time in Brazil and Baia, uh, one of the things I was
struck by , um, is thateverybody is saints there.

(02:34):
Mm-hmm . Right?
The plumber , uh, the guy whodoes your taxes also plays
caino, you know? Mm-hmm . Andthe Saama band at night,
there's no separation of, oh, Idon't play . I'm not this, I'm
not that. I'm not creative.
Everybody is just creative , and it's just
an understood thing that that'sjust a natural form of
expression. Mm-hmm . So I just wanna

(02:55):
kind of start off by sayingwe're , we're , you know , as
in the West, we are alreadykind of dealing with this idea.
Um , and that's what I find alot in my work, is this idea,
well, I'm not creative , um,and I'm, and I'm not able to
engage in my creativity becauseI'm not inclined, so to speak.
Mm-hmm . Yeah . So when webring in art and music and
bring it in from a playperspective , um, where there

(03:18):
is no attachment to the outcomemm-hmm . Then
that's one of the ways that wecan override that program,
right. Because that program isconnected to performance. So
what I always tell my studentsis that creative expression is
your birthright, butperformance is a choice.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Oh, I like that .
Yeah. Yeah .

Stacie (03:40):
Two very different things, right? Some of us are
decide to perform. Some of usare, I don't believe in being
inclined, right. Becauseanybody who's a real performer
artist been in the businessknows that it took a lot of
practice. Yes . And it took alot of blood, sweat, and tears.
Yes . It's a lot of work.
Right. So I'm not inclined, youknow, to , to , you know, I had
to, I had to work to get tothat point. But what I'm trying

(04:02):
to make clear is that that is avery clear choice, right?
Mm-hmm . Aperformance choice, performance
is what activates the ego andtriggers the ego. And that's
oftentimes what , um, kind ofcauses people to shut down or
not wanna be in, in , increativity or art, because it's
like, oh, like I get a lot, areyou gonna make me sing? Like
when I walk into a group, or,you know, people , you know,

(04:26):
there's a lot of , um, anxietyor resistance we'll see around,
but what that's connected to isperformance, meaning I'm gonna
have to sing in front of you,right. Or I'm gonna have to do
something in front of you, orI'm gonna make , make a piece
of art, and it has to be a cercertain kind of a thing. And
it's, and , and I'm attached toit being pretty, or being nice.

(04:46):
So that's a different kind ofmusic art making , right?
Totally .

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yes. It's

Stacie (04:53):
Great. It's great, but it's not the kind we're talking
about today. Right? Right. Interms of the kinds of ways that
we can utilize the art forms toreconnect us to ourselves Yes.
In the midst of tragedy and inthe midst of crisis. Right .
And so, one of the ways we cando that is by first
establishing that we'recreating, not because we are

(05:15):
attached to any particularoutcome. We're not creating a
product that's going to besold, that's gonna be judged,
that's gonna be put on a wall,or listened to, you know, on a
streaming device, if we want todo that later, or if we wanna
do that at that some at somepoint we are free to, right?
Yeah. But this is really abouthow do we engage with music and

(05:35):
art in order to, to be avehicle of connection. Yeah.
Yeah . So I just wanna say thatfirst, right? Because that's
like a , I think ,

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Uh , yes. I mean, Lisa and I, let's see, Lisa,
I've been talking about thissince like, I don't, I almost
20 years. And yeah , we alwaysmention like, why do people
constantly attach it to talentand to an object and to it?
And, and once we kind of, fromUhhuh , Yeah.
Break it down for people, they, you can watch them have that

(06:07):
moment of like, oh , okay. Andthen it kind of opens them up
some more. And I think, youknow, it's really important to
understand that, I mean, art initself is limitless, and so why
would you box it? Why would youput a label on it? You know?
And I love the distinction likeit , and that it is your
choice, you know? Um, andyou're not taking away from the

(06:29):
fact that people who choose toperform , it's not like
they're like waking up and theycan just magically do it. Magic
. It's a lot of work, you know?
Right . Anyone who's ever , um,been on stage or hung in a
gallery or , um, you know,tried to put together a demo
tape, knows what all that is.
Yeah. Mm-hmm . Somy follow up question then
would be, like, right now , um,you know, if you, if you could

(06:55):
have access to anything in, inthe LA area, what do you think
the best thing for LA would beto help it connect , uh, and,
and heal and then ultimatelythrive? I

Stacie (07:09):
Think the thing that we talked about before , um, is
this kind of meaning before offcamera , we talked a bit about
how people are responding indifferent ways. Yeah . So I
think the , the , the, theconversation that I would like
to have around this is beingable to really curate and
customize , uh, wellnesspractices and tools based upon

(07:31):
the needs of the individualmm-hmm . Because
I think it's really hard toprescribe something , um, for a
whole group of people mm-hmm . Right . Um, so
I, I'm really more so aboutthis kind of idea of helping
people to identify forthemselves. Oh, hey Katie , I
identify for the , I love whenthe cat's make an appearance.

(07:51):
They just like , Hey , . So, you know, really
identifying for ourselves, youknow, what each person needs.
And so to give you like a clearsystem of that. So let's just
look at trauma responses mm-hmm . Right ? Yes .
Mm-hmm . By flight freeze, fawn. So we all have our trauma
responses. They are, most ofthe time they're hardwired in

(08:13):
childhood. And, you know,they're based upon a , a
variety of factors. Um, when acrisis happens, we tend to go
into a trauma response. And thetrickiness about trauma
responses is sometimes we don'tknow that we're in one. Right?
Yeah . We don't know thatthat's what's happening. And
so, especially if it's one likefreeze. Yeah . So the freeze

(08:34):
trauma response is just likewhen a deer freezes, when it
senses a predator nearby. Andas we've heard this metaphor
before, the deer gets to shake,right? And like, after the
predator's gone, and it shakesall that energy out, well, most
of the time when we go intofreeze, we stay into freeze ,
we stay frozen. And that isthat , that , that's, that's a

(08:57):
, a locked kind of response.
And the nervous system kind ofgets locked into, into place
mm-hmm . So ofcourse we know the other ones ,
um, are fight, you know, andthat , and that's people who
kind of tend to go into this,you know, fight mode and I'm
gonna fight it out. And thatcan look a lot of different
ways. Yeah. Um, and there'sflight, which is what happened
with me when the fireshappened, where I woke up,

(09:17):
there was smoke. The airquality was bad that we had
alerts going off. I didn't knowthe difference between an
evacuation warning and anevacuate evacuation alert. So
we were, we were in a warning,but the, but even the sound of
the iPhone alert Oh my gosh,yes . Which we know later came
many more times in error. Sojust that sound , uh, alone was

(09:41):
enough to hit me in my rootchakra. If we're gonna talk
about chakra, is that part ofthat center where mm-hmm
. You know, myanimalistic response and I just
took off like, and I thought Iwas a freeze freezer .
Right ? Yeah . Yeah . Right .
But it turns out, it turns outin that particular instance
that I was flight, and I didn'teven realize I was in flight, I

(10:03):
was like, because I'm verymethodical and I'm a Virgo. And
so I was very calmly mappingout a , a route out of Los
Angeles. I'm , my mom lives inPhoenix, I'm gonna do that. You
know, and my partner's justkind of like, on a whole nother
like, vibe , you know? He was,it felt , it felt like he was
moving in slow motion. And I'mlike, what are you doing? Why
aren't you packing? What did it, you know? And he's looking at

(10:23):
me like, you know, so turns outI was in flight and did not
realize it. So that's the firstthing, is to be able to begin
to recognize if we can forourselves, right? Mm-hmm
. What is my ,what are my trauma responses?
Yeah . And where do I tend togo when I'm in crisis? Because
that's going to help me tounderstand what I need to do

(10:46):
next . Yeah . Yeah . Right .
What do I need to do next? Sowhat I did was, I knew that I
needed to , uh, ground andconnect, reconnect to my body,
because what a trauma responsedoes, either way, whichever one
yours is, it tends to kick youout of your body. Meaning
there's a type of dissociationthat happens. So whether you're

(11:06):
flight fighting or fighting,or, you know, there's a,
there's, there's something thatkind of disconnects , um, or
can fragment. Um, when we lookat long-term PTSD , we see that
people tended to dissociate,for example, during a very,
very difficult moments ortraumatic moments, let's just
say. And sometimes whenanything that comes near them

(11:27):
that kind of smells, tastes,looks like that their nervous
system will do the same thingand pop them out of their body
again. Mm-hmm . And then theygo into a dissociative steam .
Right? So, so PTSD is, you seethis dis this , this kind of
dissociation that kinds of hathat happens , um, as a result
of a person being triggered.
Yeah . So that's the thing wewanna recognize, is that if we

(11:50):
are in a crisis, then somethingis getting triggered, right?
That trigger can be connectedto something from early
childhood, or it could just bea , a , an animalistic primal
reptilian fight, flight fight,you know, fight, flight ,
freeze. Um, fawn is the otherone, response. Mm-hmm
. So that's areally, really important thing

(12:11):
to , to notice mm-hmm . And you'll see
it, as we said, some peoplejust kind of walking around
like nothing happened. Right.
They could be in freeze, youknow? Right . Or they could be
in a type of fi fight. Like, Igotta keep, you know, sometimes
fight is like, I gotta keepmoving. Right? Right. Yeah . I
just gotta keep, I gotta keepgoing to work, you know, I'm
gonna keep moving through this.

(12:32):
So I just think that's thefirst piece to be able to
really, really recognize is,you know, maybe that's about
just educating people aroundwhat that means. Yeah . So in ,
in therapy, we call thepsychoeducation, right? Yeah .
So doing some psychoeducationabout the nature of trauma,
about the nature of crisis. Andwhat we really wanna do is be

(12:53):
able to help people to beempowered to come back to their
bodies in a way that feels safeto them. Yeah. Yeah . And I'm
saying that in a way because inLA we have all of these kinds
of practices, and there's a lotof spirituality here mm-hmm
. And it's a lotof tools, and it's, and I'm not
saying those things are nothelpful mm-hmm .
But again, we can't prescribe,you know, like, I'm gonna

(13:18):
probably get into a lot oftrouble for saying this, but do
it a sound bath may not be thebest thing when you are in a
trauma state, right?

Lisa (13:26):
Yeah. So what I'm, what I'm hearing is , um, you really
have to be mindful. I mean,it's actually, I know it's
horrible the fires andthis crisis we're in, but it's
actually a good , um, toolright now to like, be mindful
and say, how did I react? Sohow I reacted was I was going
through this , uh, the fireswere only like three streets

(13:48):
away, and we were having thewarning, and that thing on my
iPhone was driving me insane.
But I was like, I was walkingaround going, what would break
my heart if it was gone? Youknow? So I was kind of going
through this like, almost like,like a process , like a , I
don't know what type of processI was walking around, which
paintings do I wanna bring, youknow what I mean? Mm-hmm .
Which ones, you know, whatobjects, what pictures. And I'm

(14:11):
like, you know, it was such aweird process. And then my cats
, I had to take care of mycats. Like, how am I gonna get
them in the thing? You knowwhat I mean? So I was going in
this process, and then my thingwas when the cops like, banged
on the door, I'm like, yougotta get out. I was just ,
that was almost like flight. Iwas like, I was totally picking
up. Yeah . Oh, yeah. Because Iwas like, we gotta get outta

(14:32):
here. We gotta like, we gottago. And, you know, I was like,
my cat didn't get in the , thecarrier, so I had to use like,
my mama's strength. Like Ilifted up the car, you know
what I mean? And you shove themin there and you're , you know,
there was no choice. And I waslike, mental, and my whole
nervous system was going like,freaky. So , um, I think what I
love is like, yes, you have tobe mindful of like, how did I

(14:54):
react? I mean, we mm-hmm . In la How did I
react? You know, what is myreaction? What is that trauma
response? I think that'sbrilliant.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
I think that just

Lisa (15:02):
Identify that,

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah. It's your , it's that , um, it , it reminds
me of our last conversationwhen we were talking about ,
um, self-awareness, how art canhelp you build self-awareness.
And so you, you need to, youneed to be willing to reflect,
but I think you're right, Stacy, that like, when you're, if, I
mean, when you're in the middleof a crisis, right? Yeah . Um,
you might wanna sound bath withsome therapy added on top of

(15:27):
that, right? And we alwayswanna, we always try to note
that when we're talking topeople about, like, our taking
art break movement, right? Ourtake Art break movement is
about integrating arts intoyour daily life, like proper
exercise, eating right? And,you know, but it isn't gonna
solve all your problems. And Ithink that you need to be
really, again, like Lisa said,mindful of, of all of it and be

(15:49):
willing to , um, recognize allof it. And the willingness is,
the part that might be toughfor a lot of people is the
willingness to , um, you know,come to an understanding with
what a big deal it is. Right?
Because it , it's, for me, itfeels like grief, like crisis a

(16:09):
lot of times feels like yourgrieving process mm-hmm
. Because thereis a lot of grief involved.
Yeah . And the way I've al I'vealways taught , I've always
dealt with grief, right? And weknow that nobody deals with
grief the same way. Um, islittle pieces at a time , like
five minutes here, five minutesthere of like, it's almost an
outof body experience wheresomething hits me really hard

(16:30):
and it's a physical response,and then I realize why I'm
doing it. Right. And I thinkthat you have to be willing to
realize it. Um, and that mightbe a really tough step. So what
can someone do to even bewilling to reflect on what they
are currently going through?
It's not like it, it's over,they're currently in the middle

(16:51):
of it. Right?

Stacie (16:53):
Yeah, totally. And, and just to , just to, like, for me
to be really specific about thesound bath thing, you know,
that, and that will lead intothe answering of this next
question, is there are somepractices that are, that are
not gonna be what we call them,you know, kind of counter
indicative, right? They'relike, it's a contraindication ,
um, for whatever's going on.
And so when I think of certainkinds of sound baths ,

(17:14):
particularly the fact that it'snot a regulated , uh, uh,
intervention, meaning anybodycan go buy some bowls, anybody
can do it , um, that could bequite dissociative. So that is
a , that's, that's a contrathat's against if you're
already dissociated , if you'realready per traumatized and
you're outta your body, right?

(17:35):
Then we wanna look at somethingthat's going to bring you back
into your body in a safe way,right? And embodying practice.
Mm-hmm . Sothat's what I meant when I was
saying, yeah . You know, kindof maybe sound bad is not the
right, the best thing to do ifyou're in an actively
traumatized state. Yes . Butyou, but you make a really good
question because you ask a goodquestion about the willingness,
because also what's happeningand when we're in a trauma

(17:55):
state is that we aretemporarily unable to access
the rational mind, right? Sothere's a, there's a, there's a
disconnect in the brain that,that corpus cossum that part of
the brain where we are nolonger in our rational mind,
right? So in anything having todo with reasoning, willingness
or any of those things, right?

(18:16):
Uh , we may not even haveaccess to. And that's one of
the great things about art,right? Is that art is able to,
we are able to engage inartistic creative practices
that, and that's that . Andthat can actually help to
bridge us back to our reason,right? Bridge us back to the
functioning part of the brain.
So oftentimes just beingengaged in a creative activity

(18:38):
as , which is what we'retalking about , um, has the ,
um, ability to be able to dothat. Right? So I think that
when it comes to, you know ,the, the willingness, it's
again, going back to thatpsychoeducation and saying,
listen, we're all movingthrough something. We're all
going through something that's, and normalizing it and
saying, listen, we, we need toaddress and give to yourself.

(19:04):
And sometimes, sometimes it'sjust about marketing copy. I
hate to say it like that, butlike, I have to be really
careful about the way I writethings, you know? Yeah . So
when we say stress relief, youknow , um, you know,
mindfulness, stress reduction,you know , um, uh, especially
in LA you really have to saythings like, you know, improve
your focus, you know? Mm-hmm .

(19:24):
Like, sometimes people don'trealize that the reason why
they're not focused and notproductive and not is because
you're still stuck in a traumaresponse. Right? Yeah . Right.
You, you , you're not able ,you're not gonna be able to be
, come back into business asusual, you know, if that's the
case, right? Mm-hmm . So Ithink really just being able to
communicate this and begin tonormalize this as , um, what

(19:46):
trauma actually looks like.
'cause this , 'cause theunfortunate part is that this
is not our first rodeo. No . Wehave been in a trauma response
probably since covid . So nowwhat we're looking at is we're
looking at compound and complexP Ts complex PTSD is complex
because it indicates in the DSMthat it's a trauma that is

(20:09):
ongoing. Yeah . Meaning it'snot a one point in time thing
that happens. So many of us areexperiencing complex PTSD ,
because we have been throughthe trauma of Covid , of George
Floyd, of the, the presidentialelections of , you know, of, of
the, of global warming, offinancial crisis. You know? Uh

(20:31):
, I mean, it's a lot. And it ,and it has a lot. So that's the
other piece of this, right? Isthat we're not really just
talking about the fires. We'retalking about that being the
latest situation in a long lineof other traumatic things that
has many of us experiencingcomplex PTSD at this point,

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Right? I mean, 'cause you're like, your life,
you're carrying a suitcase ofyour experiences along with
you. And it's not like youremove one in order to, you
don't really make room. Yoursuitcase gets bigger. It's not
like you're like , ah , let meremove this sweater from my
trauma at five years old.
Right? You're squishing it in.
And I think that , um, and I,that's why it's my que my, the

(21:13):
the question I had before Ithought of the suitcase thing
is, can a community experience,is there something called
community, PTSD ? Like, is it,you know, like, are we as a, as
a , and I'll just talk aboutthe United States right now.
'cause that's all I can reallyspeak to. 'cause it's where
I've lived my entire life. Ummm-hmm . Are we
experiencing , uh, like acommunal ptsd , ts D because

(21:36):
Yeah. Like a collective.

Stacie (21:39):
IIII would absolutely say yes, based upon my clinical
observation. Yeah.
Clinical opinion of, and I justsay that from , from 20 years
of working in inpatient psych,you know, because there used to
be a time when that was a clearbreak for me, right? Mm-hmm . I
would go to work at aninpatient psych unit, and then
I would come home into thenormal world. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Interesting.

Stacie (22:00):
The lines have blurred.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Yeah.

Stacie (22:03):
I could be walking through a store in LA and feel
like I'm in an inpatient psychunit, right? Because , right.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah.

Stacie (22:09):
Because you literally have so many people who are not
accustomed to the type of envienvironmental stressors that
are been happening, people whodo not have organic mental
illnesses, meaning that theydidn't, you know, kind of, and
that's a whole thing too,whether what that really is,
right ? But what we callorganic. Yeah . Which means you

(22:30):
, you literally have an onsetof mental health symptoms that
appear and you go intotreatment and no . Now what's
happening is we're looking at,again, traumatic events and
just a crippling level ofuncertainty. That alone will
trip your nervous system,

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
And you can

Stacie (22:53):
See it on ,

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Right?

Stacie (22:55):
You could see it. And if you want a , a , a , a
litmus test, go drive on the 40 5, you'll see all of it
playing out. Right? I mean ,funny, but also it's true.
Like, you know,

Speaker 3 (23:07):
I know, right? No, like I , a little bit of levity
is nice because it's hard to,you know, 'cause like , um,
I've talked to a couple peoplenow in my life and , uh, Lisa
included about this, like, thisfeeling amongst people where,
and for me, it's this feelingof like the bottom about to
fall out. And like, when I talkto people, some people feel

(23:30):
like they're one bad day awayfrom having a nervous
breakdown. And I'm encounteringmore of those people in my
life. And that's why I askedthe question, is that like,
and, and what do you think iscausing that? Is it that we
are, is it that separation? The, um, the , um, unwillingness
or like, even the, the nothaving the necessary tools, not

(23:53):
being educated in the fact thatwhile you might think that
everybody else is experiencingtrauma, it couldn't possibly be
you having a trauma response.
You know, I asked someone, Iwas, you know , I like having
this conversation with someone,and I said , um, uh, well,
you've been in, you know,survival mode pretty much your
whole life. Do you think you'restill in survival mode? And I,

(24:16):
it was a reality check for me.
The response I received was,what's survival mode? And I was
like, oh, I was assuming it wasa given. And it's not. It's
not. And Lisa and I have toremind ourselves of that all
the time. The language that weuse, our belief system is very
separate than a lot of otherpeople's belief systems. So I

(24:38):
think that you Right. Thatmaybe it's just starts with a
conversation about we're alldoing this, you know? Right.
We're all in the middle of thisright now, you know? And I do
love art because it's that, itis that thing that once you can
get someone to do it, it, itdoes change their, it does

(24:58):
change them whether they,whether that willingness is
there or not. Right. It's kindof like a secret tool, you
know? Yeah , totally . But Idunno how you get people to do
it, right? You gotta, you gottaget 'em to do it. Well.

Stacie (25:12):
Well, the other part of it too, oh, go ahead, Lisa. No,
no,

Lisa (25:14):
No . I was just thinking people, not that we have to,
like, what? I'm just thinking,it's like we're traumatized by
birth, you know what I mean? InWestern world. I mean, you come
out and it's, I mean, it's fromthe beginning, we're
traumatized, and then it's justlayers. But I think people have
to, it, creativity takescourage, you know? That it ,

(25:35):
it's like that notion. And Ithink that , um, people have to
admit that there's an issue.
Yeah . There's achallenge. And I'm not, you
know, this is, I don't know ifpeople understand that. Like,
it's not normal to, you knowwhat I mean? They don't know
where the baseline is anymore.
That's what I'm,

Stacie (25:52):
That's right. That's exactly right. And that's the
part about not realizing thatthey're in survival mode. You
know, there are people who,who, who grow up in the hood,
who are li that is just thedefault setting and forever,
right? Yeah . Because you, youliterally are just living in a
po in a , in a state of tryingto just survive and trying ,
and let's not, you know, let'sbe clear like that is by

(26:15):
design. Yeah . Right? Yes .
That is a system that has beendesigned in order to do that .
So when I think about howcreativity is, is powerful, I
think about it in terms of theenergy centers. 'cause I
mentioned before the chakras,and whether we believe in that
or not, it's just a kind ofgreat system to think about.

(26:35):
When you look at the, the rootand the, the sacral, which is
kind of like the, the mm-hmm . Sexual organs,
our creative center and oursolar plexus, that those are
typ , typically our, our bodychakra, right? So that's
typically where we hang out interms of the body. And that's
where a lot of that survivalanimalistic , um, uh, energy is
housed really in the, in theroot chakra. But when we began

(26:57):
to create, because creation isa connecting force. Yeah . So
what we're really looking at isdisconnection and connection.
So trauma is disconnection.
Mm-hmm . Right?
It's being completelyfragmented. It's out of body ,
it's mental, it's, it's a ,it's a form of disconnection,
right? What creativity does iscreativity fosters connection.

(27:20):
So we're able to connect toourselves, right? Because by
the sheer act of creating, whatbegins to happen is we become
very present. And that's themagic sauce. , we become
present. So we are no longer inthe grips of the fear of the
anxiety of what might be. Andwe are no longer in the grips

(27:40):
of the pain and the sufferingof what has been, right ? Yeah
. And in that moment, we arejust present with whatever
we're creating, whether we'rewriting a song, whether we're
planting a garden, whetherwe're doing a , a doodling
activity. We are, we are in anact of becoming very, very
present. When we becomepresent, we move from those
energy centers up into theheart mm-hmm .

(28:02):
And now we become heartcentered. So when we're heart
centered and we're present,that is the antithesis of
stress. That is when thenervous system begins to become
regulated, we begin to breathedifferently. Yeah . You know?
And we are safe. We are safe inthe present moment. Right? Yeah
. And that's the, that's themagic of, that's just one of

(28:24):
the magic things of creativity.
The other thing it does is itbypasses our defense mechanisms
so that we can then begin tofeel Yeah . And create those
containers to be able to,'cause we're not talking about
doing a spiritual bypass,right. We're talking about
getting present enough toactually sit in our bodies in a
way where we feel safe. Yeah .
And we can begin to feel thefeelings that we need to feel,
right? Yeah . Begin to expressso that the container of art

(28:48):
gives us that space to be ableto, as they say, you know,
once, once we let it flow, itwill go mm-hmm .
So then it becomes theemotional expression from being
able to release . So that'spart of how art and music and
any kind of creative act , um,can be and will and , and in
many way is the , um, ananswer, so to speak, for crisis

(29:11):
and for trauma, because it ,it's an embodying practice and,
and it brings us into play.
Yeah . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And play is
also presence. Yeah. Yeah. Weplaying, we're present. Think
about a kid building asandcastle on the beach .
Totally. Right. Completelypresent. The wave comes, takes
the sandcastle away , the kidgoes, oh, no. But then they

(29:32):
say, let's build another one,Uhhuh , you know, like right
back into the park , you know?
So that's that play energy. Andlet me tell you, we are not in
play. Right? Oh my gosh . Wecan't be in play and be in
fight or flight. Yeah . Right ?
You can't be in play and be ina trauma response at the same
time. Right? Yeah . Yeah . Playis being fully built fully in
the present moment. And thecaveat to that is, like I said,

(29:55):
there is peace in the presentmoment. Yeah . There is peace
in this moment. Yeah. Yeah. So,so I think that, that , the key
is when I do workshops and whenI do classes, when I, one of
the things that I always kindof lead with, and this is part
of what I do in my workbook, Iwrote a workbook , um, last
year that was really aboutexactly what we're talking

(30:16):
about. It's like, how do Ichart a course back to myself?
Yeah. The midst of the chaos.
And it's called Choose YourselfA 12 Week Journey , um, to
becoming the God of your ownheart. And one of the key
questions that we ask in thatworkbook that I think is a good
moment to mention now is apivotal question. And that is,

(30:36):
what do I need? What do I need?
Mm-hmm . So onceyou figure out your trauma
response, if we're gonna do asystem, right ? Yeah . Yeah .
Figure out, okay, I'm in fightflight. Right? Then you say,
okay, what do I need? Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
. And I wouldadd, what do I need with the
resources that I currentlyhave? Mm . Yeah . Mm-hmm
. Becausesometimes when we ask what do I
need, we go into our head andthe mind starts to weep all the

(30:59):
things that we don't have . Yeah . Right . Why I
need to go to Fiji. Butunfortunately, it's like, no ,
no , no, no . Yeah . So what ,what , what do you, there's a
need behind getting on a planeand going to Fiji. What do you
need? What will Fiji bring you?
Yeah. Well , well, I , I needthe blue water. Okay. Okay. But

(31:19):
what will , and I'm speakingfor myself now 'cause this is
always trying to get on theplane , . Right .
Always trying to get on theplane. But what is what , but
what is it that really, whatI'm really seeking is peace.
Yeah. I need nature. I need toconnect. Mm-hmm .
I need to get quiet. Right. Ineed to ground So the , there's

(31:42):
a need behind the impulse to dosomething. Yeah. So if we can
unpack what that need is, thenthe way we meet that need is an
infinite number of ways. Mm-hmm . That need could
be met Right. When we detachfrom the actual thing. So what
do we need? What do you need?
Yeah. And what I'll , and , andI'll, what I'll, the last thing

(32:02):
I'll say about that before wego to the next question, 'cause
I think this is kind ofbuilding into the system that I
would , I wanted this to beable to talk about for each
person who's listening is, youknow, that's going to be
different for everyone. Yeah.
Yeah . And, and it might not bean easy question for those of
us who are hardwired to meetthe needs of other people

(32:24):
first. Mm-hmm .
So there lies our other traumaresponse. Bon . Yes.
Bon Hello Bon is a traumaresponse. Hi. I'm a bon trauma
response . Well , and ,and when I'm not freezing and
flight . Right. Um, fawn is atrauma response that I learned
from being a child of analcoholic. Yeah . Hardwired.

(32:44):
Right? What do you need? Whatdoes the alcoholic mean ?
Right? Mm-hmm . What , how canI organize my life and the
things in this house so thatthey can, I mean, literally,
I'm so good at that. So then Idecide unconsciously to become
a therapist, which is all aboutmeeting other people's needs,
right. . Yep . So howso, so hence the revolutionary

(33:05):
question. No, no, no, no. Whatdo I need?

Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah . Right now?

Stacie (33:10):
Yeah . What do I need?
And that's the first questionto chart the rest of the course
that we're gonna be talkingabout today. .

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah . I feel like, yeah, I feel like you would
need to ask yourself, itreminds me of the why ladder,
right? You would need to, like,you ask yourself why over and
over again to get to the rootof the real why, like, why am I
choosing to do something versuswhy not? And it's like mm-hmm .
You have to ask yourself, whatdo you need? And then you have
to be like, well, what do youreally need? Well , okay, let's

(33:37):
try again. What do you need?
You know, because we are, allof us are , um, right. We're
all playing a role , uh, insociety. And so you do have to,
it is almost like you have todo the work to get down to your
own roots. Right. Other , notthe per , not the performative
self, but the self, self , youknow? Exactly. And so it's

(33:59):
almost like you would need likefive pages of like,
what do you need? Okay. Andthen turn the page, what do you
need? And, you know, and reallyask yourself. Okay. So, so far
we have conversation, whichleads to education, which I
love. I love the idea of like,educating people and knowledge.
Knowledge is super powerful.
And then that maybe that mightlead to the willingness maybe,

(34:23):
and then the really gettingback into that present moment
so that you can ask yourself,what do you need with the
resources that you currentlyhave.

Stacie (34:32):
Mm-hmm

Lisa (34:33):
. Mm-hmm . I , I was
talking to somebody yesterdayabout that concept of, right
now, in this day, 2025,we really need to, you know, do
self care . But I think , um,and this also with art, it's
like, people are artists. Youare selfish. You know what I
mean? People as the programmingthat, you know, to take care of
yourself is kind of like aselfish act, right ? So how do

(34:56):
you switch that response,right? Because I know a lot of
people, oh, you're an artist.
It's kind of a selfishactivity, , you know
mm-hmm . Youknow, it's, it's, it's a
response and it's programmed inus. So how do you, and , and I
think that's what you'retalking about, the fawning,
fawning, where people fawnlike, it's, it's about you.
It's not about me. And then atthe end of the day, you're

(35:17):
burned out, right? Mm-hmm . So that's where
burnout comes from. So how do

Stacie (35:21):
You , I mean, I think it , it's , it's, it's , it's
important to indicate thatthere's certain things that we
were told that were just nottrue. , you know, there
are certain lies that are insociety, and one of the lies is
that we can be productive,right? And we can grind without
putting anything back in thetank. That that's just it , it
, no system works like that. Soagain, going back to nature ,

(35:45):
um, reconnecting to the naturalworld and the way the natural
world operates, and thateverything is interdependent
and everything is feedingeverything in order to keep the
systems going. You know? So Ithink unfortunately, the , when
we figure that out is when wedo hit burnout, it's when we do
hit a wall, it's when we do gointo that place where all of a

(36:06):
sudden the nervous system isall over the place, and I'm a
day away from having a nervousbreakdown. That's the moment
where we like, okay, hold on.
Something is off in my system.
The system is outta balance.
How do I bring balance backinto the system? Well, how much
energy have you been puttingout, right? Mm-hmm . If you're
just putting out energy,putting out energy, and yes,

(36:27):
surviving is energy output,that that is, that is a level
of output to survive, right? Soif we know that that's what's
happening, and there's, and werecognize that there's all this
energy output, then the prudentthing to do, just like a doctor
would take out a prescriptionpad and write a, a prescription
for you, the most prudent thingto do would be to figure out
how do I start to put energyback into the system again? So

(36:49):
they can start to operate at anefficient level, because it's
not gonna operate at depletion.
So that's where self care comesin. That, and, and , and to me,
one of the things that I did inthe workbook is I started to
call it actually self devotion.
Because self devotion is on a ,such a , a higher level than

(37:11):
self-care. To me, self-carestill sounds , um, a little bit
, uh, I don't know . It , itbrings up that feeling like ,
like, like it's selfish, likeyou're saying, right? Hmm .
It's like, you know, and then Ithink about things like, you
know, getting my nails done,you know, or getting a massage
or, you know, and the , and thefact of the matter is sometimes
those things don't work. So Ithink when people do self care

(37:36):
and it's not working, it'sbecause it's not connected to
that original question we justasked, what do you need? Yeah.
Right. Connect the activity towhat you need. So if you need
peace, then if I need peace,going to get my nails done is

(37:57):
not gonna do that because I'mquite neurotic and I'm gonna
always be paying attention tothe lady. Was she gonna clip
my, you know, those littletools? And it's like sometimes,
so I'm actually more hyperalert of, right. I'm not
relaxed doing that. Right. SoI'm not gonna choose the act .
So sometimes we don't choosethe right activities because
they're not necessarilytargeted to what is needed by

(38:21):
our systems in that particularmoment. So the more we can get
clear about what those needsare, then, then the self care
becomes targeted. And then onceit becomes targeted, then we
can put it into a ritual ,meaning it becomes a part of a
daily practice. Mm-hmm . And then we
are, now we're cooking becauseif we can get a daily practice

(38:43):
in place mm-hmm .
Now we're actually consistentlyregulating the nervous system.
Mm-hmm . Consistently. There'snot a, a , a thing where we're
waiting until we hit a wall tothen try and go put an IV in
our arm and re re refill up,which is how most of us live,
honestly. We just go, go, go,go, go. We hit the wall, we
burn out, and then we go take avacation for seven days. Right.

(39:05):
Which doesn't, because it takesyou four days to , uh, to even
come down from the, theburnout. And then by the time
you come down from the burnout,you only got two days left, and
then it's time to get on theplane. Yeah, totally. No ,
happened to me inSeptember. I finally got on
vacation, and then , and I ,and I was, for the first four
days, I was just mm-hmm . Like this.

(39:27):
Mm-hmm . I hadpushed, I had already gotten to
depletion. So what I'mproposing mm-hmm
. Is this idea of first askingwhat we need and being able to
establish what that is, right?
Mm-hmm . Um, andthe other other thing I haven't
mentioned is in the workbook,there are these grounding
practices that are music thatwe , we listen and we we're

(39:49):
guided into this meditativestate. And the , the idea is to
ask the question what I needfrom that place. Mm . Yeah.
Again, because the mind , yeah . The mind is gonna get
involved. Well , I need thisand I need that, and I need
this. And I , you know, and Iain't , and , and , and I , you
know, oh , and then the mindwill go into the past and be
like, remember when I neededthis? And I didn't get it.
Remember when I asked him forthis and he didn't give it to

(40:10):
me? And Oh, and what about nextweek? And the RINs do I , I ,
I'm not, I don't , you know, sowe don't wanna ask this
question from the mind. Wereally wanna like drop down
into a , a place of , of, ofcalm through a meditative
practice or through anythingmindful, even if it's just
holding a cup of , of teas ,you holding your cat. Something
where you can just feel calmand then ask, you know, what is

(40:32):
it that I really need right now? Mm-hmm . And
then from that answer, then wesay, okay, what are the
practices? What are theactivities? What are the
rituals that will allow me tobe able to meet these needs?
Yeah. And then the goal is toevery day kind of put it into a
little bit of a , uh, dailypractice. And there's, again,

(40:54):
with the workbook, there's achecklist there to , to really
help with that. And the, thelast thing I'll say is that
it's a , it's, it's , this isabout creating micro moments in
your day. This is not aboutrevamping your entire life
because who has time, right?
Right . Because that's the nextthing people are gonna say.
They're gonna say, oh, I don'thave time. Oh , yeah . To be in
self devotion. And I'm like,well, you have to go to the
bathroom in morning , soYeah . You have to eat. Yeah .

(41:17):
Yeah. You know, you have toshower. I mean, you really
don't have to, but like,hopefully you do. Probably
should , any of thosemoments can become micro
moments of mindfulness where westop for a second. And that's
just a moment where it becomesa moment of in intentional
presence that so we can buildin these things, you know, into

(41:39):
our day. So I'm not proposing ,um, that everybody just, you
know, revamp their entire life,because that's not necessarily
possible. Yeah. So we have thegrounding practice asking what
you need, tuning into what youneed, and then allowing your
self care to become curated tothat need, which then becomes a
daily practice, which thenturns into devotion. Yeah .

(42:02):
Because if you're doinganything daily, it's devotion.
Yeah. It's a devotionalpractice

Speaker 3 (42:07):
That the , like the artist in me is like going off
on this trail in my mind rightnow, where like, you are
standing in front of people andlike the community and you're
helping them with this music,and they're all here, and then
you're asking them what theyneed, and then they're just
writing it down and justputting it up on a wall. And
then other people can read itand just not feel alone in

(42:29):
their needs, but also be like,well, I can help you with that
need, and you can help withthat need. I just love this
idea of people coming togetherand as individuals and
understanding that like, myneeds are way different than
your needs or similar orwhatever. But like, if we can
get to that point where we canhonestly express them, maybe we

(42:51):
can serve each other as well asourselves, you know? Uh , I'm
just Exactly . That's a fantasyI'm having right now, which
would be so

Stacie (42:58):
Amazing . Well , what you just described is workshops
that I've done . I mean, that's, that is , that is , that's
literally what we do in the we, that's literally what we do
in our workshops. Love , I lovedid one for the Hope series,
the one that for ping's . Um ,yeah . I literally last week we
did, we did self-care tools inTimes of Crisis, and oh , we
all joined on Zoom, and I hadmy guitar and I guided this,

(43:18):
you know, got groundedpractice, asked what we need.
Yes. You know, gave them thePDFs , uh, self checklist.
Mm-hmm . Um , self devotionalchecklist from the workbook.
And that was the whole thingwas for them to, based upon
what they needed Yes . To thenbegin to formulate a daily
practice to meet those needs. Ilove that. So that's, so, so
what you are saying is that Ilove too, is that you're

(43:38):
bringing in the communityaspect of this Yeah . Which is
important because we can dothis work on our own, right?
Yeah . Which is importantbecause being able to build
that bridge to ourselves is, is, is , is key. It's , it's a
primary thing. And as you soamazingly, you know, suggested
to then be able to make it acommunity activity where we are
then, you know, actuallysharing those needs and then

(44:00):
the resources.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Yes. ,

Stacie (44:03):
Then we are combining resources, right? Yeah .
Because going back to being anecosystem. Yes . Yeah . This is
the problem right now. Right?
Yes . Michael Beard Beckwith ,one of my favorite spiritual
teachers, said years ago thatthe whole world has taken a
nightmare pill and thenightmare pill is separation.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Oh my God. Yeah . So

Stacie (44:24):
We're separated. Mm-hmm . But separation is not
natural. That is something thathas been engineered. We are not
ever separate. There's no waywe can chemically quantumly be
separate from one another. It'simpossible.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
A

Stacie (44:37):
Lot easier to . So anytime .
Yeah. So anytime we can, we canbring people together and , and
, and we're in that originalstate of being one organism
mm-hmm . Which weare Yes . On the chemical
quantum level, then all of asudden the healing is going to
happen because we are notintended to heal in , in , in

(44:57):
individually or be separate.
Um, Deepak Chopper said that acell just decided to go off and
do its own thing, has becomecancer. It's cancer.

Lisa (45:05):
Yes. Yes , yes. Mm-hmm

Stacie (45:07):
. So, so where you all are just doing
such beautiful work with thispodcast and with this question,
is really tapping into the truething that's needed to heal.
Right. Which is for us to cometogether in community and
create, because when we cometogether in community, and then
we become very present mm-hmm .
Because we're creating andwe're playing, then that is the

(45:27):
healing because we're healingthat sense of separation that
has been manufactured by Yeah .
The powers that be . Right.
Totally. Because as you said,Lauren, you know, we're easier
to control in that way.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Very much easier to control, oh , we need to find a
way to make this happen. Ithink it would be , it

Lisa (45:44):
Reminds me of that , uh, the artist with the , uh, whaty
Fear . Who's that artist? Um ,Andy ,

Speaker 3 (45:50):
She's one of my favorite . She's amazing.

Lisa (45:52):
It would be, what do you need? It's a big chalkboard.
Huge. And people are like, whatdo you need ? And it'd
be really cool if you, if theif community, then what do I
need? Maybe I need , um,comfort. And then people who
the same needs come togetherand they make art through that,
or they, they expressthemselves through that. That

(46:13):
would be amazing. Yeah. So

Speaker 3 (46:15):
It's really mm-hmm .
Yeah , go

Lisa (46:16):
Ahead. What I love what you're talking about, it's
really art's superpower . It'sthe, you know, it's like the,
it's like the essence of art.
It's really a connector and ahealer. Yes. And it brings
people together. 'cause atHeartbreak Day, which we, you
know, set up through these freeart making tables, we're always
like in awe of the magic. Whenpeople sit together and create,
they start talking and theybecome best friends. We're

(46:39):
like, wow, it happened again.
It happens over and over andover these people that are so
separate, but when they startlike just being present, like
what you're talking about, theystart talking and then they're
like, oh, mm-hmm . You're my friend, . I
wanna sit here for hours.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
And you find Right.
You find, like, the reason Ilove the idea of doing it in a
community is that your, yourfeelings are becoming
acknowledged, right. Becauseyou put 'em up , you're bri ,
you're cur , you're courageousenough to do that, which in
itself can be scary. Right?
Right. Mm-hmm .
But then you have someone elseacknowledge it. Right. And
acknowledgement is a really bigsource of like, healing, right?

(47:20):
Yeah. When you're, when you'refeeling your feelings for the
first time, right. You don'twanna feel shame for them or
anything like that. But if youhave the community just there
to acknowledge it, that initself would be incredible. But
then to even move forward and,and connect resources would be
absolutely incredible, right.

(47:41):
Because then people could feelthat power of giving to that
community that they're part of.
Mm-hmm . And that in itself isa powerful thing to, 'cause you
feel united. Right?

Stacie (47:53):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
And you , you don't feel separated. You , you then
you feel like, oh, we are inthis together. Right. We are an
actual community. Mm-hmm . Wedon't have to walk parallel
with each other. We can likeactually hold hands, right. And
do this mm-hmm .
Um , wow . Yeah. I think that'swhat like, I mean, that's what
I love to do with art is justlike, remind people of the

(48:16):
things that they've forgotten,right? Is that we're , we are
all, we are all connected andwe all do depend on each other,
whether we wanna admit it ornot. Uh, we do, you know?

Stacie (48:30):
Yeah . And do you see how it transcends the, you
know, the isms, you know, ittranscends sexism, racism,
transphobia, you know,liberalism and all the isms.
Because the fact of the matteris, like you said, we are all
ones. So regardless of whovoted for who, you know, right
. Those things that are reallypolarizing, those polarizing
factors, you know, when you getdown to a question like this,

(48:50):
which is just so, it transcendsall of that because even people
who voted differently from us,they, they have needs, yes ,
they did. That there'ssomething that they need that
they thought, right? Mm-hmm . That going one
way or the other would solve,you know, and so getting to the
actual need is it , ittranscends the actual whatever

(49:13):
the action is that they took.
Because we can all, it's almostlike when, I remember when I
was working in , in addictiontreatment, and I remember
someone said that , um, youknow, alcoholism is a misguided
attempt at enlightenment. Hmm .

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Interesting. Wow.

Stacie (49:29):
So yeah, it's deep , right? Because what a person is
really seeking when they'reusing, right? Yeah . Oftentimes
connection, right? Trying toget , trying to transcend, I'm
trying to be , have thistranscendent experience. So
what I'm needing is connection.
I'm needing to connect or tofeel something deeper or to
transcend pain or somethinglike that. Now, my, the means

(49:52):
in which I meet that need maybe questionable, right ? That's
a question of that . That'sprobably not the best way to
meet that need, but it doesn'tchange the fact that the need
is there. Yeah. Right? Right .
So I , you're still gonna havethat need. So people can feel
like they have these needs andthey may not, they may make the
wrong, wrong or questionablechoices in order to meet that

(50:14):
need, but it doesn't change thefact , right? That there's,
that need is still there. So ifwe're in community and we, we
connect to what is the essence,right? Of what's really
underneath everything, then,and, and that presents itself
as what I really need. I needsafety. Some people just need
to feel safe, and they'remaking decisions based upon the

(50:35):
fact that they feel likecertain candidates or certain
situations will help to bringthem safety. You know? And
then, and then what I would dowith those people is we would
do a safety workshop and say,okay, well what is safety ?

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Yeah, yeah. What

Stacie (50:47):
Does that really mean to you? Can you really be safe
dependent upon externalfactors? Right? So then you get
deeper and you start to reallyunpack what a , what , what ,
what those needs are and whatthey really mean . And it's
always gonna take people backto their childhood. It's always
gonna take people back to unmetneeds, because most of our

(51:08):
needs that are the loudest arethe ones that weren't met when
we were a child. Yeah . Andthat's, that's when it gets,
like, when you get this oralborrow sneaky tail uhhuh ,
because it's like, oh wait, thethings that I need are the
things that I didn't get metwhen I was a child. And then
maybe someone even called meneedy.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Oh yeah .

Lisa (51:26):
Wow . Wow. So ,

Stacie (51:28):
Um , that's shame. So now, so now we have shame
charged on having a regularprimal core need that we all
have as human beings. But nowshame is attached to it because
someone has called you needy.
And this happens a lot withattachment, right? When people
are show up in relationshipsand all of a sudden you have
all these needs from yourpartner and the person calls

(51:50):
you needy. And it's like, no,neediness is an unmet need.
Screaming. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Right? Yeah.

Stacie (51:59):
Yeah. So, so I , so I , but instead I get shamed for
having this need that's unmet.
So there's, so this is why thisis so powerful to really get
people to be able to step intowhat they need and claim it and
actually have a reparativeexperience in community, right.

(52:20):
With that need actually beingmet, you know, without the
shame. Yeah . And then it canrepair something from, even
from childhood that may nothave been, but that may not
have been met even back then.
So it's very powerful. Thisquestion.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
It's

Lisa (52:34):
Super powerful. In your workbook, do you have that like
Um, I think, well, where canpeople get your workbook? I
think it's needed. right now. . And then
in your workbook, do you have alist of needs? Because for some
reason, when I think of needs,I'm not, I'm not landing on
anything. You know, you saidsafety. Mm-hmm .
Mm-hmm . But doyou know what I mean? I think
some people are not like, whatdo I need? I mean, and I think

(52:56):
there's a difference betweenwant , you were talking about
want , you know, I wanna go to, I want to go to Fiji, but
what do I need?

Speaker 3 (53:02):
What do you actually need? Right?

Stacie (53:04):
Mm-hmm

Lisa (53:05):
. Can you kind of like Right . Separate
those two or give us a

Stacie (53:09):
Landing. Yeah , definitely . Landing page

Lisa (53:10):
.

Stacie (53:11):
Yeah. I definitely, and you know, and I have some
references for, you know,'cause there are a lot of great
quizzes that are out there, youknow mm-hmm . For
the core needs. And, and Ithink, you know, the, the main
thing that I really focused inon my workbook was the, the
feelings and having, being ableto identify the feelings. So
there's a feelings glossary,which is really important of
like yeah . Ident , identifyingwhat you feel. Um, but the
needs piece is kind of, it ,it's kind of woven into the,

(53:34):
the guided practice. And , and,but you're right. And because I
, because I think what happensis the mind still wants to get
involved and the mind wants,you know , to be like, can you
show me like a , a list ofterms, you know, like, you know
, kind of a thing. And there'snothing wrong with that because
I think those resources are,are definitely , um, out there.
One of the things I did was Itook a, I took a needs quiz,

(53:54):
you know, during the middle ofthe pandemic. And , um, and
that was like some , justsomething random on the
internet that I took. Andthat's how I found out, wait a
minute, , these arewhat my core needs are. So yeah
, I feel like that , that ,that being able to just first
kind of ask the question fromthis kind of meditative state
and notice what comes up can beso much more powerful because

(54:17):
it's something will speak toyou even if it's a color or
even if it's a , a memory, youknow, again, now we're getting
into this back into art and,and into this , um, uh, almost
interoception, right? Mm-hmm . Which is like
this ability to feel and tosense what is needed based upon
what's emerging from the bodyand from the heart and from

(54:37):
internally. And that's just adifferent function than the
mind, right? And the mind'sgreat. Um, but I would just
really encourage people tofirst , um, drop down in
whatever way they can. Again, Ihave the guided practice in the
book. Um, but whatever helpsyou to feel centered. 'cause
everybody has different things.
And that's part of the workbooktoo , is to figure out what are

(54:59):
the things that help you tofeel grounded and centered,
right? Mm-hmm .
Do you need to put your handsin the dirt? Some people need
to walk, right? Yeah . Like, Idon't think that everybody can
sit and , you know, quietmeditation. Sometimes the
energy's moving and you need towalk. And that's what people
get ideas, right? Yeah . Iswhen you're walking. So I think
whatever practice, I would sayto get you into a mindfulness

(55:22):
mindful state mm-hmm . And then
honestly, ask that question andnotice what comes up in your
heart. And, and, and, and theonly thing you have to do is
really make sure that the minddoesn't come in and try and
judge it or tear it apart.
'cause mine will be like, what?
Mm-hmm . But I find that itreally comes in from the heart
space. That's where it really,really, really, really comes in

(55:44):
the true need. Otherwise,you're just thinking about what
you need,

Speaker 3 (55:48):
You know ? Yeah .
Right . Well, and also, like,you could reflect on why does
my mind keep getting in theway? What's my mind trying to
protect me from? What am I, tome, it feels like a fear thing,
right? When your mind jumps in,it's, it's like, no, no, no.
Not ready to go there. Notready. And so you have to
mm-hmm . You haveto remind yourself. And it, to
me, it is about safety. Youhave to remind yourself that

(56:08):
you are safe and that there isno shame attached to whatever
need comes up because it's aneed. And that's primal. Mm-hmm
. Right ? Mm-hmm . You know? Yeah,

Stacie (56:17):
Exactly. And then also the mind is again, wired to
help to, to enrolls . Sosometimes we're not giving
ourselves permission toactually have our needs because
we're in a role, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah . And that, and that. So
we're mom or we're wife orwe're a teacher, or we're, you
know, nurse or we're firstresponders. So it's, so again,
there's this hard wire that myneeds are, are not important,

(56:38):
right. Or that I don't get tohave what I need. That it's not
about what I need. And that'salso what's happening in the
mind, you know? So my, one ofmy favorite things is, and if
you're listening to this, thisis something you can try.
'cause I love doing practicesthat you can try , um, when,
before you go into yourmindfulness practice , uh, have
a picture of on your phone,something that really makes you

(56:58):
smile and brings you joy. Ilove baby animals. I think
they're very , um, cute , easyin mm-hmm . Right
? Yeah . Cute . And whathappens when we feel something
that evokes awe or wonder Mm .
Is we immediately go into ourhearts, right? We can just feel
it . And, and so when, I mean,go in our hearts, I mean, you

(57:20):
can literally feel the energygo from up here where we're
thinking, right? And it justmoves down here and you're
smiling and it's like, oh myGod, look at that little baby
otter. You know, like thecutest little face , you know?
'cause baby otters are reallycute. I mean, all baby animals
are cute, but like, otters arelike super cute. So you have
that feeling and, and then, andthen when you, and then , and

(57:40):
then just be there with thatfeeling for a moment and start
to breathe into it. Do someheart math . Like start
breathing into your heart andthen say, what do I need?
Mm-hmm . So askfrom a ask from that place and
notice that the mind isn't eveninvolved. Yeah . You are really
just asking from this. And thenjust notice what comes up.

(58:03):
Mm-hmm . Youknow, that's, so that's how I
would lead people into , um,answering this question of what
you need. Um, and then fromthere, then you begin the fun
part of being like, okay, if Ineed comfort, what are the
things that bring me comfort?
Right? Yeah . Maybe, maybe Ijust need to take that corner
of my room and bring a lot offuzzy stuff in there, right?

(58:27):
.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Yeah.

Stacie (58:28):
Maybe I need to get some new fuzzy slippers. Maybe
I need to go to Home Goods andjust get like a stole, like,
you know, like a cheap,something cheap. You know? Or
maybe, maybe co what makes mecomfortable is trying a brand
new tea going to, and getting aloose tea . You know? So it's,
it , it may not be what wethink it is . Yeah. Right.

(58:49):
Because as long as we'remeeting the need though, that's
the most important thing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
I love that.
Beautiful. Wow. Thank you somuch. Yeah , I do. I look, I
feel like we need to makesomething happen though in the
LA community. Let's do it . Mybrain is going all over the
place with that. 'cause I thinkit would do a lot of good. Um,
I really appreciate you talkingto us today. You got my, you
got my like brain going and Ilove that. I always love these

(59:16):
conversations . I ,

Lisa (59:17):
I needed this conversation. awesome .
From my heart .

Stacie (59:22):
Yeah . And thank you.
Thank you so much for havingme. Thank you.

Lisa (59:25):
Yeah . So , um, we'll ,

Speaker 3 (59:26):
I'll , everything, yeah, we'll link to everything
in our description , uh, youknow, your book be , uh,
because I do think that it'sdefinitely something that would
be super helpful right now, allthe time really. And your
website , all that stuff soeverybody can check it out. Um,
and yeah , uh, thank you somuch.

Stacie (59:43):
Thank you all so much.
And I'll send you the link inan email so you can have it to
the workbook and, you know,just, just, just sending so
much love and you know, supportout to everyone. And you know,
the most important thing I canjust say is just, you know, be
gentle with yourself. Like,this is not a time to try and
power through , um, anything.
Just be very, very gentle.

(01:00:03):
Whatever you hear about whatyou need when you ask that
question, it is what it is. Youknow, just, it's all right. Um,
and as my favorite , uh, one ofmy favorite teachers says , uh,
don't use what you find outabout yourself, against
yourself. Oh,

Lisa (01:00:20):
Wow. Sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
I do love that .

Stacie (01:00:21):
Whatever , whatever, whatever comes up, you know,
don't be like, I should haveknown that. And how did it ?
Nope . It's all awareness. It'sall learning.

Lisa (01:00:30):
I love that. I do that too . Really powerful Art is
power. .

Stacie (01:00:35):
Yes . Beautiful .
Absolutely. Thank you . Thankyou all so much. Have a
wonderful day. I appreciate youhaving me. Yeah , you too.