October 23, 2024 • 60 mins
On this week’s episode of Take It To The Board podcast, we're opening the doors—and windows—to a topic that’s both timely and critical for community associations both in hurricane season and year-round impact doors and windows. Host Donna DiMaggio Berger and guest Ben Friedman, owner and President of CitiQuiet Windows, explore the ins and outs of impact-resistant windows and doors: what they do, what they cost and how they are important not just as hurricane protection.
Donna and Ben debunk common myths, distinguish between impact-resistant and impact-proof materials, and emphasize the importance of replacing all damaged components post-storm. Through real-life scenarios, they share insights into the vulnerabilities of older installations and the critical role certified installers play in maintaining the integrity and performance of impact windows and doors.
Conversation Highlights Include:
- Florida Building Code requirements for hurricane-impact windows and doors
- Biggest installment hurdles in an owner-occupied building
- Lifespan and maintenance for impact windows vs. non-impact windows
- Maintenance protocols for windows and sliding doors in high-rise buildings
- Long-term savings in insurance premiums and energy bills
- Available wind mitigation credits
- Advancements in impact window technology on the horizon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Berger
and this is Take it to the Board, where we speak condo and HOA.
Today, on Take it to the Board,we're opening the doors and
windows to a topic that's bothtimely and critical for
community associations impactdoors and windows.
Our guest today is Ben Friedman, the owner and president of
(00:22):
City Quiet Windows since 2012.
Ben just doesn't install glass.
He's building the first line ofdefense between you and Mother
Nature's worst moods.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Ben, welcome to Take it to the Board.
Thank you, Donna.
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I am excited about today's topic because, ben, I
can't tell you every week I getcalls from clients talking about
this very issue.
Either they have impact windowsand doors that they're in the
midst of a concrete restorationproject or they don't.
They have some units that dohave the impact glass and others
do not.
So this is a perpetuallypopular topic and it's one we
(00:59):
haven't discussed previously onthe podcast.
So I'm happy you're herepreviously on the podcast, so
I'm happy you're here.
I'm thinking maybe we start out, ben, for our listeners,
talking about what the currentFlorida building code
requirements are that classifiesa window or sliding glass door
as being impact resistant.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Sure, so again, thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
I'm a big fan of the podcastand I'm honored to be here.
As far as the Florida BuildingCode goes, not sure if you're
aware, but the Florida BuildingCode changes every three years.
We're currently following theeighth edition of the Florida
Building Code, which was putinto effect on December 31st of
(01:37):
2023.
It will change again in 2026.
Right now, the current windspeed requirements are for Palm
Beach and Broward County, of 170miles per hour and for
Miami-Dade County is 175 milesper hour.
That's a generalization.
So windows and doors are alltested and receive a
(02:01):
certification, either throughthe Florida Building Code or
through Miami-Dade's Notice ofAcceptance process.
There are two main componentsthat make up a window or door
being approved forimpact-resistant use.
One is, of course, the glass.
The glass is some form of whatwe call laminated glass.
(02:22):
Laminated glass is the sametechnology as the front
windshield of a car, the othercomponent being the frame.
The frame has to bestructurally sound and strong,
and strong enough to beinstalled into these different
types of substrates so that theydon't get blown out or sucked
in.
So you have two components.
One is the structural integrityof the window, that being the
(02:44):
frame, the other is the glass,that being that a missile can
bounce off of the glass, breakthe glass, no different than the
front window of a car.
However, when it's raining andyou're driving and it's pouring
rain, you can have your wiperson.
No water comes inside.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So the goal is nothing's really going to move
right.
It's not going to be blown inor blown out.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
That's the goal.
The goal is that the frame isinstalled properly into the
substrate so that the framestays in place and doesn't blow
in or get sucked out.
Part two is is that the glassis able to take a direct impact
and this missile hitting theglass bounces off of it.
Although the glass may shatter,it will spider web and, as
opposed to it shattering andmaking a mess in someone's home
(03:27):
or in someone's business or incommon property, it will stay
intact.
That's that centerpiece, thatlaminate that will allow it to
go through a storm and evenpost-storm and not have water
intrusion.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well, I want to talk to you about post-storm, because
I imagine you get called out.
We had Ian, unfortunately, afew years ago.
We are heading into Octoberwhen we're taping this, which is
one of traditionally one of themost active hurricane months.
I imagine you get called outagain after a storm and you've
seen some damage done to yourwindows.
At that point, you always haveto replace the frames as well,
(04:02):
right?
Not just the glass.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Correct.
So that's a great point and Iwas actually going to bring it
up later on here which is peoplehave the misconception that an
impact window is any old frameand an opening and I can just
put hurricane glass in it and bea hurricane window.
Remember it's the frame and theglass.
So no system is going to getapproved by Miami-Dade or the
(04:27):
Florida Building Code for useunless it's hurricane glass,
laminated glass in a hurricaneimpact resistant frame.
And I also want to clarify theyare hurricane impact resistant.
They are not hurricane impactproof, impact resistant.
(04:48):
They are not hurricane impactproof.
So they withstand a certainlevel that they are tested and
approved to withstand.
However, they are not hurricaneproof.
If something mother naturecomes and sits on a certain area
for a specific period of timethat's longer than what the
window or door is tested towithstand, there's a chance that
they may see some failure, nodifferent than let's use the
(05:10):
example of a watch.
A watch is designed for 60minutes to be water resistant.
Well, if you leave the watch inthe water or you're diving and
you're down there for an hourand a half, there may be a
chance that that watch may notwork.
So it's no different withimpact windows and doors.
They're impact and hurricaneresistant.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, so if you have a hurricane that's stalled over
a certain area and it just keepspounding the buildings with
this glass, it may have animpact.
Have you actually gone into anyof the places where they do the
testing to see how they testthese windows?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
and doors I have.
It's very cool.
You can look it up on YouTubeas well.
What they do is they call thetesting facility a lab, and what
they'll do is they'll take awindow that has been designed
for hurricane code compliancethat's the intention and they'll
put it on what we would call awall, and the wall is basically
(06:02):
a structure no different than aconcrete structure that we
install windows and doors inevery day here in South Florida.
Specifically.
They'll put it on the wall andthe first thing that they'll do
is they'll shoot a two by fourat the center of the glass, and
the two by four will bounce offof the glass and the glass will
break.
Now, what they'll do is nodifferent than what is done
(06:24):
during or after an installationin a building is they will do
chamber testing.
So they'll build a chamber tosimulate a controlled
environment whereby they'llsimulate suction with a very
strong vacuum, and they willshoot out of sprinkler heads a
certain amount of water over acertain period of time at the
(06:47):
broken window and cycle itthousands and thousands of times
for 15 minute periods, andevery time it passes a 15 minute
period, you get closer andcloser to achieving this
certificate of acceptance.
Let's call it where this windowand door now has been put
(07:08):
through a simulated hurricaneand it can be used on the street
.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I imagine the technology keeps changing too.
They're always trying to makeit withstand more for longer.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Correct.
So the building code changesevery three years, which will
dictate that there will bestronger codes to follow.
Thus the window or door needsto be improved, whether that's a
thicker piece of glass, whetherthat's different reinforcements
within framing, may even bedifferent anchors used for
(07:42):
installation to be able toachieve a higher rating right.
So these manufacturers that areout there are competing with
each other on a daily basis toearn installers business, so
they need to keep up with oneanother or be innovative to say
this is why you should use ourproduct versus someone else's.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
You've mentioned a certain amount of lamination our
product versus someone else's.
You've mentioned a certainamount of lamination, so let's
talk about that.
What's?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
the distinction between regular plate glass and
these impact windows.
Okay, so regular plate glass wewould consider to be either
plate glass or, let's call iteven, annealed glass.
So you have two types of singlepane glass.
You have either annealed glass,which, when it breaks, it
breaks and it's very, very sharpand it can break in very large
pieces that could cut you andhurt you.
You then have tempered glass.
(08:31):
Tempered glass is more likesafety glass.
Safety glass is like the sidewindow of a car, when, if
someone wants to break inthrough the side window, you'll
see little shards of glass pileup inside the location of impact
.
Those are the two types ofsingle pane glass.
Those two types of glass getused with a laminate.
(08:53):
Think of it as a type of PVC, afilm that is sandwiched in
between two pieces of glass,heated up in what we would call
an autoclave, to then be oneunit or one board of glass, so
that when it gets impacted itstays together.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And so when you go out to some of these older
condos, do they often have justthis tempered glass or plate
glass in the unit windows anddoors?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
They do.
And just a quick side story wecame into a condo back in 2016
after a storm 18-story building,hollywood Beach.
A lot of shutters, a lot ofexterior accordion shutters with
40-year-old windows stillinstalled.
Shutters closed.
Came to the unit post-hurricane, walked into the unit on the
(09:48):
16th floor glass everywhere.
Why Shutters closed.
Nothing impacted the glass.
A hurricane is a pressure system.
So much pressure built up inbetween the closed shutter and
this weak plate annealed glassthat the pressure needed to
escape, so it forced its way outof the weakest point.
The weakest point was the glass.
(10:09):
So we came into a unit glasseverywhere.
You can still see daylightthrough the accordion shutters,
which means pressure has nowentered the unit, as well as air
humidity and water.
So we see it.
Many of the older buildings.
That's how they're built.
Laminated glass in condominiumassociations hasn't really been
(10:31):
a thing.
The Florida building code andimpact resistant products really
became a more popular thingpost 2004.
So you have many buildings thatare 40 years old that have
original windows and doors inthem that are now starting to
make this change because oftheir life.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, you know you're .
Having said that is making methink about my own home, where I
have impact glass around theoutside of my home.
It's a U-shaped courtyard home,but around the interior
courtyard I have Anderson doorshome, but around the interior
courtyard I have Anderson doors,plate glass and electric
shutters.
Now you've got me thinking thatI may still have a problem.
So that's another conversation.
(11:13):
Let's talk about installation,because I know whether it's the
association Ben installing thewindows, the windows and the
sliding glass doors, or it's theowners who want to do it.
Sometimes they're looking howdo I say?
I'm just going to say itthey're looking to go cheap.
So they're thinking maybe theassociation handyman can install
(11:34):
these things, or the owner maybuy the, you know, may buy the
window, the glass and again geta friend or somebody to install.
Walk us through theinstallation requirements of the
code, because I assume theycan't do that.
They need to have acertification.
It's met the standards whenit's installed properly and it's
been put to the test right.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
So if it's not installed properly, then that
certification on that window isonly as good as it is.
So the installation piece isextremely important.
Manufacturers in our industryhere in South Florida partner
with only certified installersso that they can feel
comfortable selling theirproducts to qualified installers
(12:34):
who can install them properlyand also stand behind them.
And manufacturers want to beable and feel comfortable that
they're selling windows anddoors to someone like ourselves
and that we can troubleshoot andnavigate around any issues that
come up so that they don't needto send the service team out
there.
So there are what we would callcertified installers for many
(13:00):
of the different manufacturersand you need to obviously be a
licensed, insured and sometimeseven a bonded contractor that
has the experience to install inspecific areas.
Specifically here, what you doand I do every day is we install
in high-rise condominiumassociations.
(13:21):
That's a very unique place.
It know it kind of goes into.
You know how do we go into thiscontrolled space with many
different personalities and manydifferent owners and try to
satisfy as many people aspossible in the most efficient
time that we can, and sometimesthat's challenging, but with
really good communication andreally good meetings held weekly
(13:45):
or biweekly to go throughscheduling and stuff.
You really result in a positiveexperience.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Well, I was going to ask you about a communication
plan because, listen, I'm sureyou install for developers,
that's much easier A buildinggoing up, you're dealing with
just the developer and thecontractor, you're not dealing
with owners versus trying toinstall all these windows and
doors in an owner-occupiedbuilding.
So, yeah, communication isgoing to be key, isn't it?
(14:14):
How long, would you say, atypical install lasts?
Let's say we're talking about a12-story building, ben, a
couple of weeks, a 12-storybuilding.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I would say, let's say 100 units.
Yeah, 100 units.
We're looking at one right nowand I think our timeline is
three months.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
So people need.
So you're keeping them apprisedalong the way we're coming to
your stack on this day.
We're going to be dealing withit here's maybe even where you
can park your car.
Also, access to the balcony, Iwould assume, is an issue.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, totally so.
We like to give the unit ownersand whether we're dealing with
the association directly orworking for a general contractor
, sometimes there's an owner'srep or a project manager
involved.
So when we have these meetingswe like to give at least two
weeks notice to unit owners sothat they can prepare for our
arrival.
The communication is huge.
The second biggest piece isaccess getting into someone's
home.
So they may be under theweather, they may just not want
(15:22):
to cooperate with theassociation.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I was going to say let's be honest, Maybe they're
just angry and they don't wantto give you access.
Maybe it's not a legitimateexcuse, but they're just not
down with this project.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
They're not down with it.
They don't want to pay for it,so they're going to be difficult
.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So the access is huge .
The communication, the stagingareas as you mentioned, right
windows and doors typically getdelivered to a job site.
So are we working at acondominium association on the
beach in Sunny Isles, wherebythere's very little parking?
Where do we stage?
Do we have enough space?
Or maybe we're working in agarden style condominium
(16:00):
association where there's tonsof parking and we can put
trailers and garbage dumpsters.
So all of those things are veryimportant and the reason we try
to give people as muchnotification as possible is
because we're working insidesomeone's home, so there's lots
of different personal belongingsthat need to be moved out of
the way.
We have a job to do, so we'regoing to come in and do our job,
but we like to try to tell theunit owners be as proactive as
(16:24):
possible, because things dohappen.
It's construction and things.
Certain things can't bereplaced.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Absolutely, which is why we also tell owners or
residents and I want to get intothat in a second move
everything away, a certainamount of feet away from the
windows.
I did have a community where itwas a renter and the renter
didn't disregard all of thecommunications, didn't move and
it was a furnished unit, didn'tremove or relocate any of the
(16:52):
owner's property and there wasdamage.
I want to talk about rentersfor a second, because I find
that that's a challenge incommunities where you have a
high percentage of rentals,first of all, where you have a
high percentage of rentals firstof all, the communication may
not trickle down from the ownersto their renters.
But even if it does, there'ssometimes a sense amongst the
(17:12):
renters which is I paid for thisunit I didn't pay to have, I
can't go out on my balcony, I'msurrounded by construction, I
can't look out.
It's an issue now that I wouldtell people who are renting
their units to make sure thatthere's reasonable language in
their leases or their addendathat says this unit may be
subject at some point throughoutthe term of your lease to
(17:35):
maintenance or repair projects,especially long-term leases.
It's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Absolutely.
We're working on a condominiumassociation high-rise
condominium right now in SunnyIsles Beach and it is 95% Airbnb
the building.
So you have people coming andgoing on a daily basis, you have
monthly rentals and that isdifficult because I'll give you
one example when you talk aboutbeing proactive in a unit, we
(18:02):
try to tell the associationsomething like a window covering
, a blind, a curtain that shouldbe taken down before a window
or door contractor enters theapartment.
And there's a reason for it.
The reason is not because we'relazy, the reason is is because
they're old, they're damagedprobably, and then the
contractor is going to beresponsible to replace them,
(18:22):
even if they didn't break them.
So we tell them to take themdown.
Now we come into a unit here inthis 95% Airbnb building and the
blinds are still up.
We have no choice.
We have to take them down inorder to do our job.
Well, what happens?
The new window frame is muchwider than the old window frame,
so the blinds aren't going togo back in the position that
they were in before we got there.
(18:43):
So the blinds aren't going togo back in the position that
they were in before we got there.
Now this is a blackout shade,let's say, well, now we put the
blinds back where they can go,not in the same spot.
Day goes by, renter calls theunit owner and says hey, I'm
paying all this money to rentthis unit from you for this nice
long holiday weekend.
At 530 in the morning it is sobright in this unit I can't
(19:04):
sleep.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I knew where you were going with that Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So it's a challenge and we try to exclude things
like that with good people likeyou, who see both from the
contractor side as well as theowner side, because there are
issues and some of them youcan't deal with.
But yeah, dealing in a rentalbuilding real difficult, real
(19:29):
difficult.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And part of contributing to the problem, ben
, is the fact that a lot of theinvestor owners they're not
thinking about the fact thatthese maintenance and repair
projects are necessity.
Okay, it does eat into in theirminds their return on
investment, because they're alsohaving to pay the special
assessments to fund theseprojects.
But again, life safety comesfirst and I think it's important
(19:53):
for people who are looking toinvest in condo and cooperative
units or single family homes asan investment property that they
have to take into account thatfrom time to time there's going
to be inconveniences,particularly in a multifamily
building.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Sure, same building.
This has been two years in themaking, and it's primarily
because there's a group ofpeople that do not want this to
happen, and the excuse is alwayslet's wait a few months, it's
high season, we're going to loseout on renters' income.
And then a few months go by andthe scope changes.
(20:32):
Well, the scope now includesadditional concrete work.
Well, it's additional money.
Now they have to revisit thebudget, and now we're at the
point where it's okay, let'smove forward.
Well, if we move forward now,then the windows are going to
come in in December and that'sour busy season.
We don't want to do it duringChristmas, and all the excuses
(20:53):
that you can possibly make arevery valid and understood in a
building that has a lot ofrentals.
However, at the end of the day,you can tell the audience
better than anyone that there'sa fiduciary responsibility on
the board to maintain the safetyof the people in that building.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth.
At the end of the day, theboard members have to understand
, even if they are renting outtheir units on a short-term or
long-term basis, that they havea fiduciary duty.
And having a fiduciary duty andserving as a fiduciary exposes
them to potential legalliability if they breach that
(21:33):
duty.
And, in a nutshell, that dutyis putting the interest of the
membership, particularly when itcomes to life safety issues,
ahead of their own financialissues.
So, very well said, took thewords right out of my mouth.
Let's say you're in the midstof a project.
Okay, you're installing.
Now a storm is coming.
What do you do?
You've got some windows, Iwould assume, that are literally
(21:55):
opened in the midst of it.
You've got staging andequipment everywhere.
How quickly do you mobilize todeal with the storm that's
looming?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So that's a really good question and I'm glad you
asked.
I have an example that I cangive you.
But what you really need to dois keep an eye on what's going
on.
For example, right now there'ssomething brewing and it may
impact the west coast of Floridalater this week and it was
really quick and it's going tostrengthen really fast over the
warm water.
So you might not have a lot oftime, but in the event that you
(22:25):
do, you need to demobilize aproject, whether it's concrete
restoration or windows, doors,paint, stucco.
Any exterior project that hasequipment that's hanging from
the roof of the building orinstalled on the side of the
building needs to be demobilizedand put away.
Material left on a job siteWhose responsibility is that?
(22:46):
So in the contract it'll saywell, the material belongs to
unit owner or it belongs to thecontractor, whatever it may be,
but whose responsibility is itto make sure that it's safe?
The example I use and youbrought up Hurricane Ian earlier
Hurricane Ian we had theopportunity to start installing
two towers on Naples Beach aboutsix weeks before the hurricane.
(23:10):
No one even knew there wasgoing to be a hurricane.
And we have two 45-footsemi-trailers in a parking lot
on Naples Beach with $300,000 or$400,000 worth of material
between the two of them.
On site Hear about a stormapproaching.
We're working for a GC.
The general contractor says hey, what are you going to do?
(23:32):
How are you going to hunkerdown?
This is going to be a big one.
What do we do?
In our eyes it was the shippingcontainers weigh 30,000 tons.
They're not going to goanywhere and get blown away.
The swing stages will come downoff the side of the building.
The pallets of concrete areheavy.
They're not going to get blownaway.
Well, hurricane comes.
(23:53):
Nobody knew there was going tobe a storm surge of 12 feet of
water above grade.
It picked up 30,000 toncontainers and made them float
down the street a mile withhundreds of thousands of dollars
of material in them.
So fortunately, we were workingwith good association members
(24:16):
and great attorneys, and all ofthat was understood before the
storm came.
So the answer to the questionin a nutshell is is you really
need to contact your attorney,contact your insurance company
and understand all theliabilities that are associated
with what's going to happen if,and plan in advance?
(24:38):
It's really, really importantto plan for these types of major
events.
This was extreme.
This is out of the ordinaryonce in a hundred years, but it
happened and it can happen again.
It's only a matter of time.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I mean, we're seeing it with the erratic weather
patterns.
Ben, I've had numerous guestson the podcast talking about
this issue and what we're likelyto see in the future.
Assuming that you had a unitthat was open, okay, at the time
there's an announcement, ahurricane warning.
Let's say, how quickly can youget that impact glass installed,
or would you need to put upsome other kind of temporary
(25:16):
barrier?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, worst case scenario.
The temporary barrier isplywood.
That's worst case.
That gets put, you know,installed on the face of the
building, put some foam aroundit to fill any voids and caulk
it in real good, and that'sworst case scenario.
Chances are there is enoughmaterial on site to be able to
even pull for, say, we wereworking on the 04 stack and we
(25:44):
ran out of windows on the 04stack, but the 07 stack has the
same size windows.
We were able to pull from thereto close something up.
Chances are you can close upsame day.
If you have to work late in theday, if you have to work
weekends, whatever you got to doto close something up and, most
importantly, if you have towork weekends, whatever you got
to do to close something up and,most importantly, seal it with
(26:05):
good waterproofing, with goodcaulking, because water is the
enemy on this and we're tryingto keep the enemy out.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
How long does that take to cure the sealant and the
caulking?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I would say it should take a good at least 24 hours,
maybe 48 hours, to really cure.
At least 24 hours, maybe 48hours to really cure.
And they're all going to bedifferent but as you know,
you'll see on the data sheetscure time but as a standard
minimum of 24 hours.
The other thing to I'm glad youbrought this up.
(26:35):
The other thing to remember isyou can't just scramble to put
caulking on a wet surface.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
That's not going to stick, so that surface needs to
be cleaned properly and then thecaulking needs to be applied so
that it can set up and do itsjob.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, what about the humidity too, which creates very
moist conditions?
I would assume again I'm a layperson.
I'm assuming it's easier to dothis in the drier months in
Florida as opposed to the summermonths.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
It is, and it goes though back into season, where
many people are here to enjoyseason and don't want
construction going on duringseason.
I get it, but you're talkingabout one season.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
It's not like you're doing this every single season.
I mean I totally get balancingthe equities between convenience
, but again, life safety isalways going to trump, you know,
aesthetic concerns andenjoyment and entertainment.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And when it comes to forget windows and doors for a
minute, when it comes torestoration project, you could
be I'm sure you've seen on yourprojects concrete restoration
project could go on for years,right?
So you know there's no goodtime other than the time it's
got to happen and the excuse topunt we'll use that as the
(27:53):
verbiage is not a good excuseanymore, that good excuse
anymore, and you know that comesinto everything and anything
associated with the safety andthe structure of a property.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
You know, the good news with hurricanes, if there
is any good news is at least wedo have advance notice so you
can decide.
You know you're looking at thestorm and you're saying we're
not going to open up any moreunits, right, unlike an
earthquake, unlike a tornado,where you don't know this really
should be something.
I imagine.
You keep your eye on, your crewkeeps its eye on it, and you're
(28:26):
not proceeding if it looks likea storm is heading this way and
a warning has been issued.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's absolutely correct and I'll add to that why
there's so many benefits ofimpact windows and doors, but
one of them specifically is thatit's all year round hurricane
protection as opposed toshutters, for example, building
maintenance people staff.
They don't need to go aroundpreparing units for a storm in
(28:56):
the event of a storm, if impactwindows and doors are there.
If shutters are there, thenthey need to go around and have
them closed, make sure thatthey're locked and move on to
the next one.
That's extremely time consumingas opposed to them preparing
the building, the common areas,the landscaping, the pool area
(29:17):
all of those other things for astorm.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
It's a passive form of protection.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
It's there.
That's it.
And of course there's so manyother benefits and we can get
into them.
You know noise reduction andheat reduction and insurance
savings and forced entry groundlevel no one can break into your
home.
There's so many differentancillary benefits, but the
number one being that it's allyear round protection and these
properties can really use thatand put their staff up to more
(29:48):
important safety things than togo around and close shutters for
unit owners that left forhurricane season, or maybe even
left in a hurry because therewas a storm coming and forgot to
close their shutters.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
You know it's funny.
We're taping this and I'm in myoffice.
I'm in a high rise and, believeit or not, this is not impact
glass, because I can tap on itand see that this is not impact
glass and I can hear theconstruction going on next door.
I can hear it up here and I'mon the 17th floor of this
building.
So I do want to ask you aboutthat, about the ancillary
(30:23):
benefits in a few minutes.
But before we move on, I wantto talk about any ancillary
costs of installing impactwindows and sliding glass doors
in older buildings and we knowthere's a lot of them, ben,
where, let's say, they have notyet done concrete restoration
work, so they've got older,porous concrete.
You've now got these muchheavier impact windows, I would
(30:48):
imagine, and heavier frames.
What are the costs associatedwith that?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Great question.
So, yes, the frames are bigger,the glass is heavier.
Sometimes it's a question ofcan the balconies support the
new sliding glass doorassemblies that are heavier and
how does that trickle down?
If you're on the 10th floor,how does that trickle down, all
that weight as you get lower andlower?
So an engineer will come outand check all of that out and do
(31:14):
load calculations and such.
But there are lots of differentsystems in the marketplace and
there are lots of differentsubstrates in the world.
One common substrate isconcrete.
So you have concrete.
You have a typical window thathas anchors for the top and
bottom and for the left andright, which we call the jams to
(31:36):
support this window or doorbeing installed into this
existing opening.
Some buildings have hollowconcrete concrete block in the
sides.
Well, not every window or dooris tested to go into a hollow
cell.
So what does that mean?
That means that during theconcrete restoration project, or
even during a window and doorproject, those cells need to be
(31:59):
what's called poured solidputting rebar in, pouring them,
stuccoing the outside,drywalling the inside, painting
huge cost and engineering to doall of that.
There are systems that aredesigned that don't require
those jam or those side anchors,so now we don't need to tamper
(32:21):
with those hollow blockswhatsoever.
An example there's a propertyin downtown Miami, right across
from the arena that we justfinished, and the building is
made out of Ephus.
What Ephus is?
For those that don't know,ephus is foam, styrofoam.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Wait, wait, wait.
The building's made out of foam.
Efis is foam styrofoam.
Wait, wait, wait.
The building's made out of foam.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
The building walls are all made out of foam.
The floors, from top to bottom,are made out of concrete.
So imagine taking an impactwindow or door and screwing it
into a foam wall.
What kind of support is itgoing to have?
Zero?
Well, what kind of support isit going to have?
(33:03):
Zero?
So certain manufacturers havethese systems of which we use
that are called anchorless jams,meaning no screws in the sides,
where all of the screws are inthe top and the bottom, with
different reinforcements in theframe, so that the top and
bottom can take all the load andwe don't have to tamper with
the sides at all.
So there are huge costsassociated with these types of
projects.
(33:23):
However, there are differentproducts that may cost a little
bit more than a huge concreteproject, which would require
strengthening the building tosupport a common window or door,
as opposed to, maybe, a windowor door that was designed for
(33:44):
this type of building.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Are you finding that a lot of these older
associations, these olderbuildings, are combining these
projects?
They're doing concreterestoration.
At the same time, they're goingahead and hardening the windows
and doors at?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
the same time they're going ahead and hardening the
windows and doors.
Yes, it's very common for themto be done.
It makes sense.
When an old window or door getsremoved, there's quite a bit of
stucco work that gets done.
To the exterior, there isdrywall work.
When an old sliding glass doorcomes out of a balcony, there
(34:19):
may be rebar exposed, there maybe post-tension cables that are
exposed.
All of that stuff needs to beaddressed.
So, assuming there is norestoration project going on and
we come to an opening and takeout a sliding glass door and
there's all this rebar that'sexposed and bad, delaminated
(34:40):
stucco and post tension that'srusted, what happens?
Well, we got to shut down theproject and tell the unit owner
and then the manager or maybeeven the engineer hey, we got a
problem here.
So now we're stuck with puttingup plywood.
Well, how long does thatplywood have to sit in that
opening until they can bring aconcrete restoration company out
there to do the repair?
(35:00):
So yes, if it can be done inconjunction with, it will be
done a lot more efficiently.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
Let's talk about maintenance ofthese windows, maintenance of
impact glass in the framesversus the maintenance
requirements for the regularnon-impact glass we see.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
All right.
So when we talk aboutmaintenance, this can go.
We can have a whole podcast onmaintenance and whose
responsibility the maintenanceis.
Oh yeah, as far as maintenanceon impact windows and doors,
very simple.
Every manufacturer is going tohave their maintenance package
(35:43):
that is going to need to beaddressed in order for them, for
a unit owner or a building, toexercise a warranty in the event
that they need to.
Many of them are the sameNormal, very simple Warm water.
Very simple Warm water, soapand a sponge.
(36:23):
That's the normal maintenance.
Having the frames on theexterior wiped down If you don't
live down the frames with somesoap and water, simply.
Some people are under theimpression that their sliding
glass doors need WD-40 or greaseto make them roll better.
Terrible, Don't do it.
If any lubrication is sprayed,it should be a silicone spray so
that the sand and salt don'tstick to it.
And really it's really simple,Normal maintenance.
(36:44):
You have sliding glass doors oryou have windows that slide
left and right, that have a tankor a frame on the bottom.
Vacuum it out with a dustbuster, with a shop vac.
Get all the sand and debris outof the track on a regular basis
.
Take some warm water with somesoap suds, swish it through the
track.
It'll drain out.
Very important these systemstoday are designed to take in
(37:07):
water with drainage slash weepholes within the framing
structure.
Those drains and those weepholes need to be clear in order
for the water to drain out at acertain rate that it's designed
to drain out at.
So people forget that it's nodifferent than a car that needs
(37:31):
an oil change.
These windows and doors need tobe used.
People locally, you and I.
It's so warm.
When am I ever going to openand close my windows?
Well, when you do want to openand close them and they lift up
and down and they have balancerods or springs.
You want it to stay up and notfall straight down and maybe
(37:52):
break the glass or even hurtsomebody by doing so.
And in order for that tofunction properly, they need to
be used.
So, as simple as it sounds, usethe systems.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
That is such great advice.
When you first started sayingwater and soap and clean, I'm
thinking where is he going withthis?
Is this just clean?
He's just a clean freak.
He just wants the window.
But what you're saying is,because some people are looking
at it like I can live with dirtywindows.
Okay, I'm not that fussy.
I can live with dirty windows.
Okay, I'm not that fussy Not me.
I'm cleaning windows all thetime.
But this is not just about anaesthetic that you want to have.
(38:25):
It's actually about thefunctionality and maintenance of
the product.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
From what you're telling me, that's correct, and
manufacturers will be sticklersin the event of a warranty claim
.
In the event of a warrantyclaim, they may come out and
suggest oh, our maintenance andwarranty booklet that we gave to
the installer suggests that youneed to keep a logbook of all
(38:49):
of the maintenance that was doneon your windows and doors on an
annual basis.
Because if you didn't domaintenance, whatever it may be,
let's say twice a year Well,you didn't take care of the
product, so that voids yourwarranty.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Wow, it also impacts your insurance claim if the
product fails.
Because a lot of insurancecompanies they use the argument
that this is not damage solelyrelated to the storm, it's
failure to maintain.
So this becomes a vicious cycleto maintain.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
So this becomes a vicious cycle.
And I'll give you a littletrick too, on exterior door
handles.
Whether it be a sliding door,whether it be a swing door, any
exterior door handle.
A little trick of the trade isyou take some turtle wax that's
used to wax a car or a boat, orsome petroleum jelly and you
coat the door handle with it.
This way, once every couple ofweeks you go outside, take a rag
, microfiber rag you wipe thelubrication off of the door
(39:47):
handle and all of the saltthat's going to stick to the
handle and that's going tocorrode first, is now coming off
with the turtle wax becauseit's stuck to the turtle wax
instead of stuck the door handleon, the paint finish itself.
So that's a little trick.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
This is why I love this podcast.
I've learned so much aboutstuff that and our listeners do
too.
I mean this is some commonsense stuff, but I don't know
how often associations aregetting window cleaners out
there to clean.
You just made for impact glassis protected, but some documents
actually say that the ownersare responsible to maintain and
(40:32):
repair and replace their windowsand doors.
Now, this does not mean in theaftermath of a storm and I often
have to explain this to clientsthat there's a difference
between the regular, ordinarymaintenance, repair and
replacement obligations and whatthe association is obligated to
do by law in the aftermath of acasualty.
But let's say regularmaintenance and let's say we're
talking about a high-rise.
(40:53):
One of the things I like totalk to my clients about is,
first of all, how easy is it forMrs Smith to get her windows
maintained, especially if we'renot talking about on a balcony,
if she's on the 10th floor?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
maintained, especially if we're not talking
about on a balcony on the 10thfloor.
Sure, it takes a male or afemale and what we would call a
boson chair to hang from theroof and come in and clean the
windows from the exterior, andthere's a cost associated with
it, of course.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
And if the owner doesn't do this because it's a
daunting task.
Because I'm on the 10th floorand I've called a few people and
they're like lady, we can'tclean your windows on the 10th
floor.
Again, I know a lot ofassociations, ben, who are happy
when they know that theirdocuments put that obligation on
the owners.
But the flip side of that isthe maintenance may go unheated
(41:45):
for years, well beyond when itshould, and that's going to
impact everybody if thosewindows are no longer watertight
.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
That's exactly correct and that also brings up
a good point, which is the maleor female on the 10th floor
isn't maintaining their systems,but the male or female on the
the ninth floor has done greatmaintenance to theirs and their
windows have never leaked.
What happens when water comesin on the 10th floor and
trickles down to the ninth floor, to the unit owner who says my
(42:14):
windows are perfect, I maintainthem, I get them washed, I get
them re-caulked.
The guy or gal upstairs doesn't.
So now, whose responsibility isit to fix Mrs or Mr Jones's
apartment on the ninth floor?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
So again I want to say I never give direct legal
advice but generally speaking,the person on the lower floor is
experiencing a casualtyAssociation in Florida.
We had a lot of peoplelistening outside of Florida,
but in Florida the law is thatin a condominium the
association's responsible toreplace damaged drywall and
(42:46):
baseboard if the units wereconstructed with baseboards.
So now they've got to deal withall the other, the lower damage
.
Perhaps they have the option togo against the person for a
negligence claim who failed tomaintain it.
But overall, I think thecleanest way, especially when
you're dealing with multifamilybuilding with vertical housing,
(43:06):
is for the association tooversee the maintenance, because
it'll get done, it'll beuniform and you don't have to
chase people for the maintenance.
And so, to my mind, that alsosets us up.
For I want to talk to you aboutinsurance, you know.
Do you know of any credits?
(43:27):
I hear it all the time aboutthe mitigation credits for
hardening the building.
Can you talk to us aboutbuildings that have hardened
their infrastructure byinstalling impact glass?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Sure.
So what I could tell you, firstand foremost, is that there are
a handful of carriers that willrefuse to even quote buildings
if they don't have mitigationcredits.
So that's first and foremost, isthat there are a handful of
carriers that will refuse toeven quote buildings if they
don't have mitigation credits.
So that's first and foremostWith mitigation credits, you
will have lots of doors that areopen for you, so you will have
more options which can lead togreater benefits or lower
(44:01):
premium.
I can tell you that Citizensspecifically, which is a Florida
insurance company Citizens willgive up to 65% of a premium
credit if all windows and doorsare Hurricane Code compliant and
all is the answer.
There may be a small littlewindow in common area bathroom
(44:26):
that the association says wedon't need to do that.
That's part of the whole.
So up to 65% of a premiumcredit from citizens.
I can tell you that all othercarriers are offering on average
of somewhere between 25 and 35%premium credit.
But again, it's important tonote that having these
(44:47):
mitigation credits and havingbuildings that are compliant
opens the doors for othercarriers to be interested in
insuring your property.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, I mean listen, we've also it's been kind of a
running theme on the podcasttalking about the insurance
crisis here in Florida.
But look, there's insurancecrises throughout the country,
as we've seen more erraticweather patterns, wildfires,
mudslides, you name it.
There's been earthquakes.
There's been problems acrossthe country in terms of being
able to obtain affordableinsurance coverage.
(45:22):
I wonder, though, if you've gotall the impact glass in but
you've got an old roof.
I would assume that they kindof go hand in hand.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know.
You'll have your mitigationinspection done and one of the
boxes that gets checked is for aroof and the age of the roof.
And another box that getschecked is all glazed openings.
All glazed openings orfenestration products are
windows and doors.
Just to also add to that, whenit comes to insurance, it is
(45:53):
common now that insurancecompanies are requiring that
impact resistant windows anddoors be all large missile
impact rated.
There are large missile impactrated windows and doors that are
required to be used on 30 feetand below of grade.
So first floor, second floor,third floor, maybe even fourth
(46:14):
floor, so 30 feet from streetlevel and up need to.
From the ground level, up to 30feet are required to be large
missile impact rated.
Anything above 30 feet, 31 feetand above can be small missile
impact rated per the buildingcode.
That will save you some pennieshere or there in the grand
(46:36):
scheme of a large window anddoor replacement project.
However, insurance companiestoday are suggesting you will
not get your credit unlesseverything is large missile
impact rated.
So my suggestion is is for eachand every individual listening
to this podcast that may bethinking about doing something
like this, no matter what typeof project it is windows, doors,
(46:57):
roof that whatever is beingproposed for use be put past the
insurance company first tounderstand if and when they'll
be entitled to any type ofsavings.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, that's a great suggestion, because if you're
doing this in part for theimpact it's going to have on
your insurance premium, whywouldn't you check ahead of time
to figure out what the impactis going to be on your insurance
premium?
What constitutes a largemissile?
What?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
kind of object, how big?
That's a really good question.
I don't know that I was everasked that before.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
I was talking a two by four.
Are we talking yeah?
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, so the way that the systems are tested is with
the use of a two by four thatgets shot out of a cannon at 170
or 175 miles per hour.
So I'm going to use that as alarge missile.
And I think you know this boardof building code compliance.
I don't know how they came upwith 30 feet, but the suggestion
(47:55):
is is that 30 feet and belowyou have a greater chance of
something impacting the glassthan you do at 31 feet and above
, and I see these again.
I'll go back to this building onHollywood beach, 16 floor.
You know they had shutters.
What's flying around up there,unless it's something that's
getting ripped off of a building, a neighboring building, and
(48:15):
it's going to, you know, hityour windows out of anything.
My my thought is is there's agreater chance of those windows
and doors getting ripped out ofthe opening or blown in than
there is of something hitting it.
So why would we have shuttersup that high?
And it's mind-boggling now thatthere is a cost difference in
shutters than there is in impactglass.
(48:36):
But you're getting what you payfor.
You're getting zero of the ofthe residence.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
I did have a building where a vase at a neighboring
building's unit blew off andblew through another unit in the
neighboring building.
As we see more density inconstruction, I guess it could
have a similar impact.
If that other building has notprepared, has not had their
owners or residents remove itemsfrom their balconies, I would
(49:16):
venture to say that those itemscould become airborne missiles.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah, and I don't want to steer anybody listening
to this podcast away from beingproactive and protecting their
building and or unit, whether itbe with shutters or impact
windows.
By any means, Be proactive anddo something.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
But what I am suggesting is that there are
better ways to do it than others.
So you know, because you'vebeen in this industry, the
community association industry,for quite a while, as have I,
that a lot boils down to whatPricing and they'll look at
these windows and doors and saythis is expense, this is an
expensive investment.
But how do you help peopleunderstand and you touched on it
a few minutes ago about thelong-term savings?
You know, you've got insurancepremium, the mitigation credits.
(50:08):
What about increased energyefficiency?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Energy efficiency.
You know you're going to see asavings.
It's not huge but you will seea savings, you'll see it.
You know common areas where theassociation is responsible for
paying that FPL bill or whomeverthe power company is.
Here I know we're speaking topeople outside of the Florida
(50:32):
area.
So from a common areastandpoint, you're going to see
a nice savings.
The unit owner in these largerunits they may have pretty high
FPL bills because they arecooling a large space.
So you'll see $25, $50.
(50:54):
I don't think that you're goingto see a tremendous savings when
it comes to energy.
But when we talk about energy,yes, you're going to see that
your air conditionings aren'tgoing to be running as often, so
that's creating longevity onthose units and you're not
replacing those as frequently.
(51:14):
You are saving money, of course, on your energy with impact
glass.
Note that they are 99% UVresistant.
Uv has to do with discolorationof furniture and paintings and
carpets and rugs and all of thatstuff.
So impact glass is 99% UVresistant.
Your energy savings, along withyour insurance savings, at some
(51:39):
point these systems are goingto start paying for themselves.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
I'm thinking about crime prevention too.
You mentioned ground floor, butin a lot of the older buildings
they have catwalks where peoplecan walk along those catwalks
and you've got somebody rightoutside your window.
Again, those type of olderbuildings do have a lot of older
people on fixed incomes livingin them.
They may have moved in in their40s and 50ies and they've
(52:06):
stayed there now and they're intheir eighties or nineties.
I imagine again, it would beexpensive, but it has this other
impact on potentially crime.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Totally so, if you can remember I know you or I
aren't old enough to rememberthis, but we are not a a.
You know, in these old TV showsand movies when people used to
steal car stereos, right, um,they would always break in the
cars through the side windows.
They'd never break in throughthe front and if you, you know,
(52:37):
had a baseball bat and you beaton the front window, you'd never
could get in to steal that carstereo.
You always go through the side.
That's impact glass, that frontwindow of a car.
So from a forced entrystandpoint they prevent a lot of
crime.
We've seen in high net worthdemographic HOA communities that
(52:59):
have been hit up by bad guys orbad girls.
They try to get into someone'shome through the glass and they
sit there and realize they'renever getting through that.
So they move on to the next one.
Those are the professionals,the sleazeball kids that are out
(53:21):
there trying to make theirbuddy laugh by breaking
someone's glass.
They're going to sit there andbeat on it as long as they can
until the cops show up or untilthey hear the sirens.
But from a professionalstandpoint, that's on a mission.
They know they're trying to getinside because they know
there's something good insidethe second, that they figure out
it's impact glass, they're onto the next one.
They know that they're notgoing to have enough time to do
(53:42):
what they need to do before thepolice show up.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
I had a famous athlete in one of my HOAs in
Western Broward County.
It was well known that he livedin this community and, yeah, a
group of teens tried to break inand use the baseball bat and,
yeah, could not get through,caught on camera.
It was actually a good end tothe story.
He was not impacted, but, toyour point, that's exactly what
(54:07):
happened.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Yeah, so they're a great deterrent.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, so are you seeing any?
First of all, are you seeing anincreased demand, Ben, over the
last couple of years for impactglass?
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Lots of demand, lots of bidding, lots of being a
resource to communityassociation managers and the
boards of directors.
With all of the new legislationaround the surf side,
devastation buildings are beingput up against the wall to do
(54:40):
certain things in a timelymanner and I'm sure you've had
multiple podcasts about this sowe won't get into it.
But because of it, lots ofbidding, lots of trying to
understand what it's going tocost, how long it's going to
take, how it's going to impactthe residents, not only because
of Surfside but also olderbuildings trying to modernize
(55:03):
how do we keep up with theneighbor who now has a 60-story
modern building and our buildingis 12 stories.
That hasn't done anything toincrease the value of the units.
So modernizing, making it moreappealing for people to buy
units there or to invest intounits there.
(55:27):
So anything from thesemilestone inspections and the
SERS and the recommendations bythe engineers or architects to
insurance companies demandingthat they're going to raise
their rates if they don't docertain hurricane code projects
and the modernization piece,it's been extremely active and
(55:48):
interesting seeing that it's nolonger yeah, next year, yeah,
maybe the year after.
It's now.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
You mentioned the building code.
It changes every three years.
Florida adopts a new version,but that's the minimum of what's
required.
I imagine in your industry.
There's always companies outthere that are trying to do
better.
There's trends, there's newtechnology, new materials.
What are you seeing?
I also assume that you goaround to different trade shows
(56:18):
and see what's out.
So what's on the horizon?
Speaker 2 (56:22):
So unfortunately, I could tell you that it's not
that exciting in the window anddoor world with related to
impact windows and doors.
And again, impact windows anddoors.
It's not that exciting becausethere's not a lot of deviating
from having impact glass.
(56:43):
Two pieces of glass with thefilm in the middle, if it's not
hurricane glass.
We go to these trade shows allthe time.
There's some really cool stuffout there for people listening
that are outside of the SouthFlorida area.
Lots of really cool stuff fromglass becoming privacy, glass
with the flip of a switch, glassbecoming more energy efficient,
(57:04):
with different coatings thatcan be used, self-cleaning glass
.
You know, forget the old windowwasher, but when natural rain
hits the glass, it washes it.
Um, decorative glass.
There are cool things out there.
Unfortunately, in the impactworld, there's nothing really
(57:27):
that cool on the horizon otherthan being innovative from an
energy efficiency standpoint,maybe from a privacy standpoint,
that in the glass, in theframes, manufacturers are being
innovative.
They want this architecturallook.
Maybe they have slimmer profileframes, maybe they have
different color options.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
But I wish I had better news for you that there's
no, I love all thosearchitectural home shows and I,
like I love what you said aboutthe privacy glass and the
self-cleaning glass, so we needto meld those with the impact
glass, and then we've got it.
We've got it all.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Yeah, I mean.
Listen, listen, you said itbest earlier.
You know what.
What are people thinking about?
They're thinking about what itcosts.
So the more bells and whistlesthat you can, you can put on
these impact products, the morethey cost.
And that may be whymanufacturers just stick with
the basics and say, okay, thebuilding code is going to change
(58:28):
, we got to make sure ourproduct meets the structural
building code and maybe even theenergy code, but other than
that, we're not going to reallydo anything too crazy around the
country or the world.
There are technologies outthere of which the glass creates
electricity power that willsend power back to the building
(58:54):
or your home or your panel.
I'm not an electrician so Ireally can't tell you exactly
how it works, but think of it aslittle, tiny, tiny wires that
you can't even see in the glassthat are acting like solar
panels and they're absorbingnatural light sun to create
power.
So that's something really coolthat's out there not really
(59:15):
here in South Florida, but forthose of you listening outside
of South Florida, really coolstuff.
Speaker 1 (59:19):
That is really cool.
You have given me so much tothink about, even for my clients
, but also for my personalresidents.
Ben, where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (59:30):
Well again, my name is Ben Friedman.
I'm the president and owner ofCity Quiet Windows and Doors.
My email address is my name,ben B-E-N at City C-I-T-I quiet.
Q-u-i-e-t abbreviation forFlorida, flcom.
Ben at cityquietflcom, ourwebsite,
cityquiethurricanewindowscom.
(59:52):
You can find me by-.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
Well, we can find you out and about in South Florida.
I can tell people this Ben hasthe best parties, he's
everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
You can find me pretty much anywhere Instagram.
Call Donna, she knows where tofind me.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Thanks, Ben, for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to follow and rateus on your favorite podcast
platform, or visitTakeItToTheBoardcom for more
ways to connect.
Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Berger
and this is Take it to the Board, where we speak condo and HOA.
Today, on Take it to the Board,we're opening the doors and
windows to a topic that's bothtimely and critical for
community associations impactdoors and windows.
Our guest today is Ben Friedman, the owner and president of
(00:22):
City Quiet Windows since 2012.
Ben just doesn't install glass.
He's building the first line ofdefense between you and Mother
Nature's worst moods.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Ben, welcome to Take it to the Board.
Thank you, Donna.
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I am excited about today's topic because, ben, I
can't tell you every week I getcalls from clients talking about
this very issue.
Either they have impact windowsand doors that they're in the
midst of a concrete restorationproject or they don't.
They have some units that dohave the impact glass and others
do not.
So this is a perpetuallypopular topic and it's one we
(00:59):
haven't discussed previously onthe podcast.
So I'm happy you're herepreviously on the podcast, so
I'm happy you're here.
I'm thinking maybe we start out, ben, for our listeners,
talking about what the currentFlorida building code
requirements are that classifiesa window or sliding glass door
as being impact resistant.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Sure, so again, thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
I'm a big fan of the podcastand I'm honored to be here.
As far as the Florida BuildingCode goes, not sure if you're
aware, but the Florida BuildingCode changes every three years.
We're currently following theeighth edition of the Florida
Building Code, which was putinto effect on December 31st of
(01:37):
2023.
It will change again in 2026.
Right now, the current windspeed requirements are for Palm
Beach and Broward County, of 170miles per hour and for
Miami-Dade County is 175 milesper hour.
That's a generalization.
So windows and doors are alltested and receive a
(02:01):
certification, either throughthe Florida Building Code or
through Miami-Dade's Notice ofAcceptance process.
There are two main componentsthat make up a window or door
being approved forimpact-resistant use.
One is, of course, the glass.
The glass is some form of whatwe call laminated glass.
(02:22):
Laminated glass is the sametechnology as the front
windshield of a car, the othercomponent being the frame.
The frame has to bestructurally sound and strong,
and strong enough to beinstalled into these different
types of substrates so that theydon't get blown out or sucked
in.
So you have two components.
One is the structural integrityof the window, that being the
(02:44):
frame, the other is the glass,that being that a missile can
bounce off of the glass, breakthe glass, no different than the
front window of a car.
However, when it's raining andyou're driving and it's pouring
rain, you can have your wiperson.
No water comes inside.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So the goal is nothing's really going to move
right.
It's not going to be blown inor blown out.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
That's the goal.
The goal is that the frame isinstalled properly into the
substrate so that the framestays in place and doesn't blow
in or get sucked out.
Part two is is that the glassis able to take a direct impact
and this missile hitting theglass bounces off of it.
Although the glass may shatter,it will spider web and, as
opposed to it shattering andmaking a mess in someone's home
(03:27):
or in someone's business or incommon property, it will stay
intact.
That's that centerpiece, thatlaminate that will allow it to
go through a storm and evenpost-storm and not have water
intrusion.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well, I want to talk to you about post-storm, because
I imagine you get called out.
We had Ian, unfortunately, afew years ago.
We are heading into Octoberwhen we're taping this, which is
one of traditionally one of themost active hurricane months.
I imagine you get called outagain after a storm and you've
seen some damage done to yourwindows.
At that point, you always haveto replace the frames as well,
(04:02):
right?
Not just the glass.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Correct.
So that's a great point and Iwas actually going to bring it
up later on here which is peoplehave the misconception that an
impact window is any old frameand an opening and I can just
put hurricane glass in it and bea hurricane window.
Remember it's the frame and theglass.
So no system is going to getapproved by Miami-Dade or the
(04:27):
Florida Building Code for useunless it's hurricane glass,
laminated glass in a hurricaneimpact resistant frame.
And I also want to clarify theyare hurricane impact resistant.
They are not hurricane impactproof, impact resistant.
(04:48):
They are not hurricane impactproof.
So they withstand a certainlevel that they are tested and
approved to withstand.
However, they are not hurricaneproof.
If something mother naturecomes and sits on a certain area
for a specific period of timethat's longer than what the
window or door is tested towithstand, there's a chance that
they may see some failure, nodifferent than let's use the
(05:10):
example of a watch.
A watch is designed for 60minutes to be water resistant.
Well, if you leave the watch inthe water or you're diving and
you're down there for an hourand a half, there may be a
chance that that watch may notwork.
So it's no different withimpact windows and doors.
They're impact and hurricaneresistant.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, so if you have a hurricane that's stalled over
a certain area and it just keepspounding the buildings with
this glass, it may have animpact.
Have you actually gone into anyof the places where they do the
testing to see how they testthese windows?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
and doors I have.
It's very cool.
You can look it up on YouTubeas well.
What they do is they call thetesting facility a lab, and what
they'll do is they'll take awindow that has been designed
for hurricane code compliancethat's the intention and they'll
put it on what we would call awall, and the wall is basically
(06:02):
a structure no different than aconcrete structure that we
install windows and doors inevery day here in South Florida.
Specifically.
They'll put it on the wall andthe first thing that they'll do
is they'll shoot a two by fourat the center of the glass, and
the two by four will bounce offof the glass and the glass will
break.
Now, what they'll do is nodifferent than what is done
(06:24):
during or after an installationin a building is they will do
chamber testing.
So they'll build a chamber tosimulate a controlled
environment whereby they'llsimulate suction with a very
strong vacuum, and they willshoot out of sprinkler heads a
certain amount of water over acertain period of time at the
(06:47):
broken window and cycle itthousands and thousands of times
for 15 minute periods, andevery time it passes a 15 minute
period, you get closer andcloser to achieving this
certificate of acceptance.
Let's call it where this windowand door now has been put
(07:08):
through a simulated hurricaneand it can be used on the street
.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I imagine the technology keeps changing too.
They're always trying to makeit withstand more for longer.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Correct.
So the building code changesevery three years, which will
dictate that there will bestronger codes to follow.
Thus the window or door needsto be improved, whether that's a
thicker piece of glass, whetherthat's different reinforcements
within framing, may even bedifferent anchors used for
(07:42):
installation to be able toachieve a higher rating right.
So these manufacturers that areout there are competing with
each other on a daily basis toearn installers business, so
they need to keep up with oneanother or be innovative to say
this is why you should use ourproduct versus someone else's.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
You've mentioned a certain amount of lamination our
product versus someone else's.
You've mentioned a certainamount of lamination, so let's
talk about that.
What's?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
the distinction between regular plate glass and
these impact windows.
Okay, so regular plate glass wewould consider to be either
plate glass or, let's call iteven, annealed glass.
So you have two types of singlepane glass.
You have either annealed glass,which, when it breaks, it
breaks and it's very, very sharpand it can break in very large
pieces that could cut you andhurt you.
You then have tempered glass.
(08:31):
Tempered glass is more likesafety glass.
Safety glass is like the sidewindow of a car, when, if
someone wants to break inthrough the side window, you'll
see little shards of glass pileup inside the location of impact
.
Those are the two types ofsingle pane glass.
Those two types of glass getused with a laminate.
(08:53):
Think of it as a type of PVC, afilm that is sandwiched in
between two pieces of glass,heated up in what we would call
an autoclave, to then be oneunit or one board of glass, so
that when it gets impacted itstays together.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And so when you go out to some of these older
condos, do they often have justthis tempered glass or plate
glass in the unit windows anddoors?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
They do.
And just a quick side story wecame into a condo back in 2016
after a storm 18-story building,hollywood Beach.
A lot of shutters, a lot ofexterior accordion shutters with
40-year-old windows stillinstalled.
Shutters closed.
Came to the unit post-hurricane, walked into the unit on the
(09:48):
16th floor glass everywhere.
Why Shutters closed.
Nothing impacted the glass.
A hurricane is a pressure system.
So much pressure built up inbetween the closed shutter and
this weak plate annealed glassthat the pressure needed to
escape, so it forced its way outof the weakest point.
The weakest point was the glass.
(10:09):
So we came into a unit glasseverywhere.
You can still see daylightthrough the accordion shutters,
which means pressure has nowentered the unit, as well as air
humidity and water.
So we see it.
Many of the older buildings.
That's how they're built.
Laminated glass in condominiumassociations hasn't really been
(10:31):
a thing.
The Florida building code andimpact resistant products really
became a more popular thingpost 2004.
So you have many buildings thatare 40 years old that have
original windows and doors inthem that are now starting to
make this change because oftheir life.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, you know you're .
Having said that is making methink about my own home, where I
have impact glass around theoutside of my home.
It's a U-shaped courtyard home,but around the interior
courtyard I have Anderson doorshome, but around the interior
courtyard I have Anderson doors,plate glass and electric
shutters.
Now you've got me thinking thatI may still have a problem.
So that's another conversation.
(11:13):
Let's talk about installation,because I know whether it's the
association Ben installing thewindows, the windows and the
sliding glass doors, or it's theowners who want to do it.
Sometimes they're looking howdo I say?
I'm just going to say itthey're looking to go cheap.
So they're thinking maybe theassociation handyman can install
(11:34):
these things, or the owner maybuy the, you know, may buy the
window, the glass and again geta friend or somebody to install.
Walk us through theinstallation requirements of the
code, because I assume theycan't do that.
They need to have acertification.
It's met the standards whenit's installed properly and it's
been put to the test right.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
So if it's not installed properly, then that
certification on that window isonly as good as it is.
So the installation piece isextremely important.
Manufacturers in our industryhere in South Florida partner
with only certified installersso that they can feel
comfortable selling theirproducts to qualified installers
(12:34):
who can install them properlyand also stand behind them.
And manufacturers want to beable and feel comfortable that
they're selling windows anddoors to someone like ourselves
and that we can troubleshoot andnavigate around any issues that
come up so that they don't needto send the service team out
there.
So there are what we would callcertified installers for many
(13:00):
of the different manufacturersand you need to obviously be a
licensed, insured and sometimeseven a bonded contractor that
has the experience to install inspecific areas.
Specifically here, what you doand I do every day is we install
in high-rise condominiumassociations.
(13:21):
That's a very unique place.
It know it kind of goes into.
You know how do we go into thiscontrolled space with many
different personalities and manydifferent owners and try to
satisfy as many people aspossible in the most efficient
time that we can, and sometimesthat's challenging, but with
really good communication andreally good meetings held weekly
(13:45):
or biweekly to go throughscheduling and stuff.
You really result in a positiveexperience.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Well, I was going to ask you about a communication
plan because, listen, I'm sureyou install for developers,
that's much easier A buildinggoing up, you're dealing with
just the developer and thecontractor, you're not dealing
with owners versus trying toinstall all these windows and
doors in an owner-occupiedbuilding.
So, yeah, communication isgoing to be key, isn't it?
(14:14):
How long, would you say, atypical install lasts?
Let's say we're talking about a12-story building, ben, a
couple of weeks, a 12-storybuilding.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I would say, let's say 100 units.
Yeah, 100 units.
We're looking at one right nowand I think our timeline is
three months.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
So people need.
So you're keeping them apprisedalong the way we're coming to
your stack on this day.
We're going to be dealing withit here's maybe even where you
can park your car.
Also, access to the balcony, Iwould assume, is an issue.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, totally so.
We like to give the unit ownersand whether we're dealing with
the association directly orworking for a general contractor
, sometimes there's an owner'srep or a project manager
involved.
So when we have these meetingswe like to give at least two
weeks notice to unit owners sothat they can prepare for our
arrival.
The communication is huge.
The second biggest piece isaccess getting into someone's
home.
So they may be under theweather, they may just not want
(15:22):
to cooperate with theassociation.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I was going to say let's be honest, Maybe they're
just angry and they don't wantto give you access.
Maybe it's not a legitimateexcuse, but they're just not
down with this project.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
They're not down with it.
They don't want to pay for it,so they're going to be difficult
.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So the access is huge .
The communication, the stagingareas as you mentioned, right
windows and doors typically getdelivered to a job site.
So are we working at acondominium association on the
beach in Sunny Isles, wherebythere's very little parking?
Where do we stage?
Do we have enough space?
Or maybe we're working in agarden style condominium
(16:00):
association where there's tonsof parking and we can put
trailers and garbage dumpsters.
So all of those things are veryimportant and the reason we try
to give people as muchnotification as possible is
because we're working insidesomeone's home, so there's lots
of different personal belongingsthat need to be moved out of
the way.
We have a job to do, so we'regoing to come in and do our job,
but we like to try to tell theunit owners be as proactive as
(16:24):
possible, because things dohappen.
It's construction and things.
Certain things can't bereplaced.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Absolutely, which is why we also tell owners or
residents and I want to get intothat in a second move
everything away, a certainamount of feet away from the
windows.
I did have a community where itwas a renter and the renter
didn't disregard all of thecommunications, didn't move and
it was a furnished unit, didn'tremove or relocate any of the
(16:52):
owner's property and there wasdamage.
I want to talk about rentersfor a second, because I find
that that's a challenge incommunities where you have a
high percentage of rentals,first of all, where you have a
high percentage of rentals firstof all, the communication may
not trickle down from the ownersto their renters.
But even if it does, there'ssometimes a sense amongst the
(17:12):
renters which is I paid for thisunit I didn't pay to have, I
can't go out on my balcony, I'msurrounded by construction, I
can't look out.
It's an issue now that I wouldtell people who are renting
their units to make sure thatthere's reasonable language in
their leases or their addendathat says this unit may be
subject at some point throughoutthe term of your lease to
(17:35):
maintenance or repair projects,especially long-term leases.
It's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Absolutely.
We're working on a condominiumassociation high-rise
condominium right now in SunnyIsles Beach and it is 95% Airbnb
the building.
So you have people coming andgoing on a daily basis, you have
monthly rentals and that isdifficult because I'll give you
one example when you talk aboutbeing proactive in a unit, we
(18:02):
try to tell the associationsomething like a window covering
, a blind, a curtain that shouldbe taken down before a window
or door contractor enters theapartment.
And there's a reason for it.
The reason is not because we'relazy, the reason is is because
they're old, they're damagedprobably, and then the
contractor is going to beresponsible to replace them,
(18:22):
even if they didn't break them.
So we tell them to take themdown.
Now we come into a unit here inthis 95% Airbnb building and the
blinds are still up.
We have no choice.
We have to take them down inorder to do our job.
Well, what happens?
The new window frame is muchwider than the old window frame,
so the blinds aren't going togo back in the position that
they were in before we got there.
(18:43):
So the blinds aren't going togo back in the position that
they were in before we got there.
Now this is a blackout shade,let's say, well, now we put the
blinds back where they can go,not in the same spot.
Day goes by, renter calls theunit owner and says hey, I'm
paying all this money to rentthis unit from you for this nice
long holiday weekend.
At 530 in the morning it is sobright in this unit I can't
(19:04):
sleep.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I knew where you were going with that Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So it's a challenge and we try to exclude things
like that with good people likeyou, who see both from the
contractor side as well as theowner side, because there are
issues and some of them youcan't deal with.
But yeah, dealing in a rentalbuilding real difficult, real
(19:29):
difficult.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And part of contributing to the problem, ben
, is the fact that a lot of theinvestor owners they're not
thinking about the fact thatthese maintenance and repair
projects are necessity.
Okay, it does eat into in theirminds their return on
investment, because they're alsohaving to pay the special
assessments to fund theseprojects.
But again, life safety comesfirst and I think it's important
(19:53):
for people who are looking toinvest in condo and cooperative
units or single family homes asan investment property that they
have to take into account thatfrom time to time there's going
to be inconveniences,particularly in a multifamily
building.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Sure, same building.
This has been two years in themaking, and it's primarily
because there's a group ofpeople that do not want this to
happen, and the excuse is alwayslet's wait a few months, it's
high season, we're going to loseout on renters' income.
And then a few months go by andthe scope changes.
(20:32):
Well, the scope now includesadditional concrete work.
Well, it's additional money.
Now they have to revisit thebudget, and now we're at the
point where it's okay, let'smove forward.
Well, if we move forward now,then the windows are going to
come in in December and that'sour busy season.
We don't want to do it duringChristmas, and all the excuses
(20:53):
that you can possibly make arevery valid and understood in a
building that has a lot ofrentals.
However, at the end of the day,you can tell the audience
better than anyone that there'sa fiduciary responsibility on
the board to maintain the safetyof the people in that building.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth.
At the end of the day, theboard members have to understand
, even if they are renting outtheir units on a short-term or
long-term basis, that they havea fiduciary duty.
And having a fiduciary duty andserving as a fiduciary exposes
them to potential legalliability if they breach that
(21:33):
duty.
And, in a nutshell, that dutyis putting the interest of the
membership, particularly when itcomes to life safety issues,
ahead of their own financialissues.
So, very well said, took thewords right out of my mouth.
Let's say you're in the midstof a project.
Okay, you're installing.
Now a storm is coming.
What do you do?
You've got some windows, Iwould assume, that are literally
(21:55):
opened in the midst of it.
You've got staging andequipment everywhere.
How quickly do you mobilize todeal with the storm that's
looming?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So that's a really good question and I'm glad you
asked.
I have an example that I cangive you.
But what you really need to dois keep an eye on what's going
on.
For example, right now there'ssomething brewing and it may
impact the west coast of Floridalater this week and it was
really quick and it's going tostrengthen really fast over the
warm water.
So you might not have a lot oftime, but in the event that you
(22:25):
do, you need to demobilize aproject, whether it's concrete
restoration or windows, doors,paint, stucco.
Any exterior project that hasequipment that's hanging from
the roof of the building orinstalled on the side of the
building needs to be demobilizedand put away.
Material left on a job siteWhose responsibility is that?
(22:46):
So in the contract it'll saywell, the material belongs to
unit owner or it belongs to thecontractor, whatever it may be,
but whose responsibility is itto make sure that it's safe?
The example I use and youbrought up Hurricane Ian earlier
Hurricane Ian we had theopportunity to start installing
two towers on Naples Beach aboutsix weeks before the hurricane.
(23:10):
No one even knew there wasgoing to be a hurricane.
And we have two 45-footsemi-trailers in a parking lot
on Naples Beach with $300,000 or$400,000 worth of material
between the two of them.
On site Hear about a stormapproaching.
We're working for a GC.
The general contractor says hey, what are you going to do?
(23:32):
How are you going to hunkerdown?
This is going to be a big one.
What do we do?
In our eyes it was the shippingcontainers weigh 30,000 tons.
They're not going to goanywhere and get blown away.
The swing stages will come downoff the side of the building.
The pallets of concrete areheavy.
They're not going to get blownaway.
Well, hurricane comes.
(23:53):
Nobody knew there was going tobe a storm surge of 12 feet of
water above grade.
It picked up 30,000 toncontainers and made them float
down the street a mile withhundreds of thousands of dollars
of material in them.
So fortunately, we were workingwith good association members
(24:16):
and great attorneys, and all ofthat was understood before the
storm came.
So the answer to the questionin a nutshell is is you really
need to contact your attorney,contact your insurance company
and understand all theliabilities that are associated
with what's going to happen if,and plan in advance?
(24:38):
It's really, really importantto plan for these types of major
events.
This was extreme.
This is out of the ordinaryonce in a hundred years, but it
happened and it can happen again.
It's only a matter of time.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I mean, we're seeing it with the erratic weather
patterns.
Ben, I've had numerous guestson the podcast talking about
this issue and what we're likelyto see in the future.
Assuming that you had a unitthat was open, okay, at the time
there's an announcement, ahurricane warning.
Let's say, how quickly can youget that impact glass installed,
or would you need to put upsome other kind of temporary
(25:16):
barrier?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, worst case scenario.
The temporary barrier isplywood.
That's worst case.
That gets put, you know,installed on the face of the
building, put some foam aroundit to fill any voids and caulk
it in real good, and that'sworst case scenario.
Chances are there is enoughmaterial on site to be able to
even pull for, say, we wereworking on the 04 stack and we
(25:44):
ran out of windows on the 04stack, but the 07 stack has the
same size windows.
We were able to pull from thereto close something up.
Chances are you can close upsame day.
If you have to work late in theday, if you have to work
weekends, whatever you got to doto close something up and, most
importantly, if you have towork weekends, whatever you got
to do to close something up and,most importantly, seal it with
(26:05):
good waterproofing, with goodcaulking, because water is the
enemy on this and we're tryingto keep the enemy out.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
How long does that take to cure the sealant and the
caulking?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I would say it should take a good at least 24 hours,
maybe 48 hours, to really cure.
At least 24 hours, maybe 48hours to really cure.
And they're all going to bedifferent but as you know,
you'll see on the data sheetscure time but as a standard
minimum of 24 hours.
The other thing to I'm glad youbrought this up.
(26:35):
The other thing to remember isyou can't just scramble to put
caulking on a wet surface.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
That's not going to stick, so that surface needs to
be cleaned properly and then thecaulking needs to be applied so
that it can set up and do itsjob.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, what about the humidity too, which creates very
moist conditions?
I would assume again I'm a layperson.
I'm assuming it's easier to dothis in the drier months in
Florida as opposed to the summermonths.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
It is, and it goes though back into season, where
many people are here to enjoyseason and don't want
construction going on duringseason.
I get it, but you're talkingabout one season.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
It's not like you're doing this every single season.
I mean I totally get balancingthe equities between convenience
, but again, life safety isalways going to trump, you know,
aesthetic concerns andenjoyment and entertainment.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And when it comes to forget windows and doors for a
minute, when it comes torestoration project, you could
be I'm sure you've seen on yourprojects concrete restoration
project could go on for years,right?
So you know there's no goodtime other than the time it's
got to happen and the excuse topunt we'll use that as the
(27:53):
verbiage is not a good excuseanymore, that good excuse
anymore, and you know that comesinto everything and anything
associated with the safety andthe structure of a property.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
You know, the good news with hurricanes, if there
is any good news is at least wedo have advance notice so you
can decide.
You know you're looking at thestorm and you're saying we're
not going to open up any moreunits, right, unlike an
earthquake, unlike a tornado,where you don't know this really
should be something.
I imagine.
You keep your eye on, your crewkeeps its eye on it, and you're
(28:26):
not proceeding if it looks likea storm is heading this way and
a warning has been issued.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's absolutely correct and I'll add to that why
there's so many benefits ofimpact windows and doors, but
one of them specifically is thatit's all year round hurricane
protection as opposed toshutters, for example, building
maintenance people staff.
They don't need to go aroundpreparing units for a storm in
(28:56):
the event of a storm, if impactwindows and doors are there.
If shutters are there, thenthey need to go around and have
them closed, make sure thatthey're locked and move on to
the next one.
That's extremely time consumingas opposed to them preparing
the building, the common areas,the landscaping, the pool area
(29:17):
all of those other things for astorm.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
It's a passive form of protection.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
It's there.
That's it.
And of course there's so manyother benefits and we can get
into them.
You know noise reduction andheat reduction and insurance
savings and forced entry groundlevel no one can break into your
home.
There's so many differentancillary benefits, but the
number one being that it's allyear round protection and these
properties can really use thatand put their staff up to more
(29:48):
important safety things than togo around and close shutters for
unit owners that left forhurricane season, or maybe even
left in a hurry because therewas a storm coming and forgot to
close their shutters.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
You know it's funny.
We're taping this and I'm in myoffice.
I'm in a high rise and, believeit or not, this is not impact
glass, because I can tap on itand see that this is not impact
glass and I can hear theconstruction going on next door.
I can hear it up here and I'mon the 17th floor of this
building.
So I do want to ask you aboutthat, about the ancillary
(30:23):
benefits in a few minutes.
But before we move on, I wantto talk about any ancillary
costs of installing impactwindows and sliding glass doors
in older buildings and we knowthere's a lot of them, ben,
where, let's say, they have notyet done concrete restoration
work, so they've got older,porous concrete.
You've now got these muchheavier impact windows, I would
(30:48):
imagine, and heavier frames.
What are the costs associatedwith that?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Great question.
So, yes, the frames are bigger,the glass is heavier.
Sometimes it's a question ofcan the balconies support the
new sliding glass doorassemblies that are heavier and
how does that trickle down?
If you're on the 10th floor,how does that trickle down, all
that weight as you get lower andlower?
So an engineer will come outand check all of that out and do
(31:14):
load calculations and such.
But there are lots of differentsystems in the marketplace and
there are lots of differentsubstrates in the world.
One common substrate isconcrete.
So you have concrete.
You have a typical window thathas anchors for the top and
bottom and for the left andright, which we call the jams to
(31:36):
support this window or doorbeing installed into this
existing opening.
Some buildings have hollowconcrete concrete block in the
sides.
Well, not every window or dooris tested to go into a hollow
cell.
So what does that mean?
That means that during theconcrete restoration project, or
even during a window and doorproject, those cells need to be
(31:59):
what's called poured solidputting rebar in, pouring them,
stuccoing the outside,drywalling the inside, painting
huge cost and engineering to doall of that.
There are systems that aredesigned that don't require
those jam or those side anchors,so now we don't need to tamper
(32:21):
with those hollow blockswhatsoever.
An example there's a propertyin downtown Miami, right across
from the arena that we justfinished, and the building is
made out of Ephus.
What Ephus is?
For those that don't know,ephus is foam, styrofoam.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Wait, wait, wait.
The building's made out of foam.
Efis is foam styrofoam.
Wait, wait, wait.
The building's made out of foam.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
The building walls are all made out of foam.
The floors, from top to bottom,are made out of concrete.
So imagine taking an impactwindow or door and screwing it
into a foam wall.
What kind of support is itgoing to have?
Zero?
Well, what kind of support isit going to have?
(33:03):
Zero?
So certain manufacturers havethese systems of which we use
that are called anchorless jams,meaning no screws in the sides,
where all of the screws are inthe top and the bottom, with
different reinforcements in theframe, so that the top and
bottom can take all the load andwe don't have to tamper with
the sides at all.
So there are huge costsassociated with these types of
projects.
(33:23):
However, there are differentproducts that may cost a little
bit more than a huge concreteproject, which would require
strengthening the building tosupport a common window or door,
as opposed to, maybe, a windowor door that was designed for
(33:44):
this type of building.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Are you finding that a lot of these older
associations, these olderbuildings, are combining these
projects?
They're doing concreterestoration.
At the same time, they're goingahead and hardening the windows
and doors at?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
the same time they're going ahead and hardening the
windows and doors.
Yes, it's very common for themto be done.
It makes sense.
When an old window or door getsremoved, there's quite a bit of
stucco work that gets done.
To the exterior, there isdrywall work.
When an old sliding glass doorcomes out of a balcony, there
(34:19):
may be rebar exposed, there maybe post-tension cables that are
exposed.
All of that stuff needs to beaddressed.
So, assuming there is norestoration project going on and
we come to an opening and takeout a sliding glass door and
there's all this rebar that'sexposed and bad, delaminated
(34:40):
stucco and post tension that'srusted, what happens?
Well, we got to shut down theproject and tell the unit owner
and then the manager or maybeeven the engineer hey, we got a
problem here.
So now we're stuck with puttingup plywood.
Well, how long does thatplywood have to sit in that
opening until they can bring aconcrete restoration company out
there to do the repair?
(35:00):
So yes, if it can be done inconjunction with, it will be
done a lot more efficiently.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
Let's talk about maintenance ofthese windows, maintenance of
impact glass in the framesversus the maintenance
requirements for the regularnon-impact glass we see.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
All right.
So when we talk aboutmaintenance, this can go.
We can have a whole podcast onmaintenance and whose
responsibility the maintenanceis.
Oh yeah, as far as maintenanceon impact windows and doors,
very simple.
Every manufacturer is going tohave their maintenance package
(35:43):
that is going to need to beaddressed in order for them, for
a unit owner or a building, toexercise a warranty in the event
that they need to.
Many of them are the sameNormal, very simple Warm water.
Very simple Warm water, soapand a sponge.
(36:23):
That's the normal maintenance.
Having the frames on theexterior wiped down If you don't
live down the frames with somesoap and water, simply.
Some people are under theimpression that their sliding
glass doors need WD-40 or greaseto make them roll better.
Terrible, Don't do it.
If any lubrication is sprayed,it should be a silicone spray so
that the sand and salt don'tstick to it.
And really it's really simple,Normal maintenance.
(36:44):
You have sliding glass doors oryou have windows that slide
left and right, that have a tankor a frame on the bottom.
Vacuum it out with a dustbuster, with a shop vac.
Get all the sand and debris outof the track on a regular basis
.
Take some warm water with somesoap suds, swish it through the
track.
It'll drain out.
Very important these systemstoday are designed to take in
(37:07):
water with drainage slash weepholes within the framing
structure.
Those drains and those weepholes need to be clear in order
for the water to drain out at acertain rate that it's designed
to drain out at.
So people forget that it's nodifferent than a car that needs
(37:31):
an oil change.
These windows and doors need tobe used.
People locally, you and I.
It's so warm.
When am I ever going to openand close my windows?
Well, when you do want to openand close them and they lift up
and down and they have balancerods or springs.
You want it to stay up and notfall straight down and maybe
(37:52):
break the glass or even hurtsomebody by doing so.
And in order for that tofunction properly, they need to
be used.
So, as simple as it sounds, usethe systems.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
That is such great advice.
When you first started sayingwater and soap and clean, I'm
thinking where is he going withthis?
Is this just clean?
He's just a clean freak.
He just wants the window.
But what you're saying is,because some people are looking
at it like I can live with dirtywindows.
Okay, I'm not that fussy.
I can live with dirty windows.
Okay, I'm not that fussy Not me.
I'm cleaning windows all thetime.
But this is not just about anaesthetic that you want to have.
(38:25):
It's actually about thefunctionality and maintenance of
the product.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
From what you're telling me, that's correct, and
manufacturers will be sticklersin the event of a warranty claim
.
In the event of a warrantyclaim, they may come out and
suggest oh, our maintenance andwarranty booklet that we gave to
the installer suggests that youneed to keep a logbook of all
(38:49):
of the maintenance that was doneon your windows and doors on an
annual basis.
Because if you didn't domaintenance, whatever it may be,
let's say twice a year Well,you didn't take care of the
product, so that voids yourwarranty.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Wow, it also impacts your insurance claim if the
product fails.
Because a lot of insurancecompanies they use the argument
that this is not damage solelyrelated to the storm, it's
failure to maintain.
So this becomes a vicious cycleto maintain.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
So this becomes a vicious cycle.
And I'll give you a littletrick too, on exterior door
handles.
Whether it be a sliding door,whether it be a swing door, any
exterior door handle.
A little trick of the trade isyou take some turtle wax that's
used to wax a car or a boat, orsome petroleum jelly and you
coat the door handle with it.
This way, once every couple ofweeks you go outside, take a rag
, microfiber rag you wipe thelubrication off of the door
(39:47):
handle and all of the saltthat's going to stick to the
handle and that's going tocorrode first, is now coming off
with the turtle wax becauseit's stuck to the turtle wax
instead of stuck the door handleon, the paint finish itself.
So that's a little trick.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
This is why I love this podcast.
I've learned so much aboutstuff that and our listeners do
too.
I mean this is some commonsense stuff, but I don't know
how often associations aregetting window cleaners out
there to clean.
You just made for impact glassis protected, but some documents
actually say that the ownersare responsible to maintain and
(40:32):
repair and replace their windowsand doors.
Now, this does not mean in theaftermath of a storm and I often
have to explain this to clientsthat there's a difference
between the regular, ordinarymaintenance, repair and
replacement obligations and whatthe association is obligated to
do by law in the aftermath of acasualty.
But let's say regularmaintenance and let's say we're
talking about a high-rise.
(40:53):
One of the things I like totalk to my clients about is,
first of all, how easy is it forMrs Smith to get her windows
maintained, especially if we'renot talking about on a balcony,
if she's on the 10th floor?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
maintained, especially if we're not talking
about on a balcony on the 10thfloor.
Sure, it takes a male or afemale and what we would call a
boson chair to hang from theroof and come in and clean the
windows from the exterior, andthere's a cost associated with
it, of course.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
And if the owner doesn't do this because it's a
daunting task.
Because I'm on the 10th floorand I've called a few people and
they're like lady, we can'tclean your windows on the 10th
floor.
Again, I know a lot ofassociations, ben, who are happy
when they know that theirdocuments put that obligation on
the owners.
But the flip side of that isthe maintenance may go unheated
(41:45):
for years, well beyond when itshould, and that's going to
impact everybody if thosewindows are no longer watertight
.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
That's exactly correct and that also brings up
a good point, which is the maleor female on the 10th floor
isn't maintaining their systems,but the male or female on the
the ninth floor has done greatmaintenance to theirs and their
windows have never leaked.
What happens when water comesin on the 10th floor and
trickles down to the ninth floor, to the unit owner who says my
(42:14):
windows are perfect, I maintainthem, I get them washed, I get
them re-caulked.
The guy or gal upstairs doesn't.
So now, whose responsibility isit to fix Mrs or Mr Jones's
apartment on the ninth floor?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
So again I want to say I never give direct legal
advice but generally speaking,the person on the lower floor is
experiencing a casualtyAssociation in Florida.
We had a lot of peoplelistening outside of Florida,
but in Florida the law is thatin a condominium the
association's responsible toreplace damaged drywall and
(42:46):
baseboard if the units wereconstructed with baseboards.
So now they've got to deal withall the other, the lower damage
.
Perhaps they have the option togo against the person for a
negligence claim who failed tomaintain it.
But overall, I think thecleanest way, especially when
you're dealing with multifamilybuilding with vertical housing,
(43:06):
is for the association tooversee the maintenance, because
it'll get done, it'll beuniform and you don't have to
chase people for the maintenance.
And so, to my mind, that alsosets us up.
For I want to talk to you aboutinsurance, you know.
Do you know of any credits?
(43:27):
I hear it all the time aboutthe mitigation credits for
hardening the building.
Can you talk to us aboutbuildings that have hardened
their infrastructure byinstalling impact glass?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Sure.
So what I could tell you, firstand foremost, is that there are
a handful of carriers that willrefuse to even quote buildings
if they don't have mitigationcredits.
So that's first and foremost, isthat there are a handful of
carriers that will refuse toeven quote buildings if they
don't have mitigation credits.
So that's first and foremostWith mitigation credits, you
will have lots of doors that areopen for you, so you will have
more options which can lead togreater benefits or lower
(44:01):
premium.
I can tell you that Citizensspecifically, which is a Florida
insurance company Citizens willgive up to 65% of a premium
credit if all windows and doorsare Hurricane Code compliant and
all is the answer.
There may be a small littlewindow in common area bathroom
(44:26):
that the association says wedon't need to do that.
That's part of the whole.
So up to 65% of a premiumcredit from citizens.
I can tell you that all othercarriers are offering on average
of somewhere between 25 and 35%premium credit.
But again, it's important tonote that having these
(44:47):
mitigation credits and havingbuildings that are compliant
opens the doors for othercarriers to be interested in
insuring your property.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, I mean listen, we've also it's been kind of a
running theme on the podcasttalking about the insurance
crisis here in Florida.
But look, there's insurancecrises throughout the country,
as we've seen more erraticweather patterns, wildfires,
mudslides, you name it.
There's been earthquakes.
There's been problems acrossthe country in terms of being
able to obtain affordableinsurance coverage.
(45:22):
I wonder, though, if you've gotall the impact glass in but
you've got an old roof.
I would assume that they kindof go hand in hand.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know.
You'll have your mitigationinspection done and one of the
boxes that gets checked is for aroof and the age of the roof.
And another box that getschecked is all glazed openings.
All glazed openings orfenestration products are
windows and doors.
Just to also add to that, whenit comes to insurance, it is
(45:53):
common now that insurancecompanies are requiring that
impact resistant windows anddoors be all large missile
impact rated.
There are large missile impactrated windows and doors that are
required to be used on 30 feetand below of grade.
So first floor, second floor,third floor, maybe even fourth
(46:14):
floor, so 30 feet from streetlevel and up need to.
From the ground level, up to 30feet are required to be large
missile impact rated.
Anything above 30 feet, 31 feetand above can be small missile
impact rated per the buildingcode.
That will save you some pennieshere or there in the grand
(46:36):
scheme of a large window anddoor replacement project.
However, insurance companiestoday are suggesting you will
not get your credit unlesseverything is large missile
impact rated.
So my suggestion is is for eachand every individual listening
to this podcast that may bethinking about doing something
like this, no matter what typeof project it is windows, doors,
(46:57):
roof that whatever is beingproposed for use be put past the
insurance company first tounderstand if and when they'll
be entitled to any type ofsavings.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, that's a great suggestion, because if you're
doing this in part for theimpact it's going to have on
your insurance premium, whywouldn't you check ahead of time
to figure out what the impactis going to be on your insurance
premium?
What constitutes a largemissile?
What?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
kind of object, how big?
That's a really good question.
I don't know that I was everasked that before.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
I was talking a two by four.
Are we talking yeah?
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, so the way that the systems are tested is with
the use of a two by four thatgets shot out of a cannon at 170
or 175 miles per hour.
So I'm going to use that as alarge missile.
And I think you know this boardof building code compliance.
I don't know how they came upwith 30 feet, but the suggestion
(47:55):
is is that 30 feet and belowyou have a greater chance of
something impacting the glassthan you do at 31 feet and above
, and I see these again.
I'll go back to this building onHollywood beach, 16 floor.
You know they had shutters.
What's flying around up there,unless it's something that's
getting ripped off of a building, a neighboring building, and
(48:15):
it's going to, you know, hityour windows out of anything.
My my thought is is there's agreater chance of those windows
and doors getting ripped out ofthe opening or blown in than
there is of something hitting it.
So why would we have shuttersup that high?
And it's mind-boggling now thatthere is a cost difference in
shutters than there is in impactglass.
(48:36):
But you're getting what you payfor.
You're getting zero of the ofthe residence.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
I did have a building where a vase at a neighboring
building's unit blew off andblew through another unit in the
neighboring building.
As we see more density inconstruction, I guess it could
have a similar impact.
If that other building has notprepared, has not had their
owners or residents remove itemsfrom their balconies, I would
(49:16):
venture to say that those itemscould become airborne missiles.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah, and I don't want to steer anybody listening
to this podcast away from beingproactive and protecting their
building and or unit, whether itbe with shutters or impact
windows.
By any means, Be proactive anddo something.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
But what I am suggesting is that there are
better ways to do it than others.
So you know, because you'vebeen in this industry, the
community association industry,for quite a while, as have I,
that a lot boils down to whatPricing and they'll look at
these windows and doors and saythis is expense, this is an
expensive investment.
But how do you help peopleunderstand and you touched on it
a few minutes ago about thelong-term savings?
You know, you've got insurancepremium, the mitigation credits.
(50:08):
What about increased energyefficiency?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Energy efficiency.
You know you're going to see asavings.
It's not huge but you will seea savings, you'll see it.
You know common areas where theassociation is responsible for
paying that FPL bill or whomeverthe power company is.
Here I know we're speaking topeople outside of the Florida
(50:32):
area.
So from a common areastandpoint, you're going to see
a nice savings.
The unit owner in these largerunits they may have pretty high
FPL bills because they arecooling a large space.
So you'll see $25, $50.
(50:54):
I don't think that you're goingto see a tremendous savings when
it comes to energy.
But when we talk about energy,yes, you're going to see that
your air conditionings aren'tgoing to be running as often, so
that's creating longevity onthose units and you're not
replacing those as frequently.
(51:14):
You are saving money, of course, on your energy with impact
glass.
Note that they are 99% UVresistant.
Uv has to do with discolorationof furniture and paintings and
carpets and rugs and all of thatstuff.
So impact glass is 99% UVresistant.
Your energy savings, along withyour insurance savings, at some
(51:39):
point these systems are goingto start paying for themselves.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
I'm thinking about crime prevention too.
You mentioned ground floor, butin a lot of the older buildings
they have catwalks where peoplecan walk along those catwalks
and you've got somebody rightoutside your window.
Again, those type of olderbuildings do have a lot of older
people on fixed incomes livingin them.
They may have moved in in their40s and 50ies and they've
(52:06):
stayed there now and they're intheir eighties or nineties.
I imagine again, it would beexpensive, but it has this other
impact on potentially crime.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Totally so, if you can remember I know you or I
aren't old enough to rememberthis, but we are not a a.
You know, in these old TV showsand movies when people used to
steal car stereos, right, um,they would always break in the
cars through the side windows.
They'd never break in throughthe front and if you, you know,
(52:37):
had a baseball bat and you beaton the front window, you'd never
could get in to steal that carstereo.
You always go through the side.
That's impact glass, that frontwindow of a car.
So from a forced entrystandpoint they prevent a lot of
crime.
We've seen in high net worthdemographic HOA communities that
(52:59):
have been hit up by bad guys orbad girls.
They try to get into someone'shome through the glass and they
sit there and realize they'renever getting through that.
So they move on to the next one.
Those are the professionals,the sleazeball kids that are out
(53:21):
there trying to make theirbuddy laugh by breaking
someone's glass.
They're going to sit there andbeat on it as long as they can
until the cops show up or untilthey hear the sirens.
But from a professionalstandpoint, that's on a mission.
They know they're trying to getinside because they know
there's something good insidethe second, that they figure out
it's impact glass, they're onto the next one.
They know that they're notgoing to have enough time to do
(53:42):
what they need to do before thepolice show up.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
I had a famous athlete in one of my HOAs in
Western Broward County.
It was well known that he livedin this community and, yeah, a
group of teens tried to break inand use the baseball bat and,
yeah, could not get through,caught on camera.
It was actually a good end tothe story.
He was not impacted, but, toyour point, that's exactly what
(54:07):
happened.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Yeah, so they're a great deterrent.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, so are you seeing any?
First of all, are you seeing anincreased demand, Ben, over the
last couple of years for impactglass?
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Lots of demand, lots of bidding, lots of being a
resource to communityassociation managers and the
boards of directors.
With all of the new legislationaround the surf side,
devastation buildings are beingput up against the wall to do
(54:40):
certain things in a timelymanner and I'm sure you've had
multiple podcasts about this sowe won't get into it.
But because of it, lots ofbidding, lots of trying to
understand what it's going tocost, how long it's going to
take, how it's going to impactthe residents, not only because
of Surfside but also olderbuildings trying to modernize
(55:03):
how do we keep up with theneighbor who now has a 60-story
modern building and our buildingis 12 stories.
That hasn't done anything toincrease the value of the units.
So modernizing, making it moreappealing for people to buy
units there or to invest intounits there.
(55:27):
So anything from thesemilestone inspections and the
SERS and the recommendations bythe engineers or architects to
insurance companies demandingthat they're going to raise
their rates if they don't docertain hurricane code projects
and the modernization piece,it's been extremely active and
(55:48):
interesting seeing that it's nolonger yeah, next year, yeah,
maybe the year after.
It's now.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
You mentioned the building code.
It changes every three years.
Florida adopts a new version,but that's the minimum of what's
required.
I imagine in your industry.
There's always companies outthere that are trying to do
better.
There's trends, there's newtechnology, new materials.
What are you seeing?
I also assume that you goaround to different trade shows
(56:18):
and see what's out.
So what's on the horizon?
Speaker 2 (56:22):
So unfortunately, I could tell you that it's not
that exciting in the window anddoor world with related to
impact windows and doors.
And again, impact windows anddoors.
It's not that exciting becausethere's not a lot of deviating
from having impact glass.
(56:43):
Two pieces of glass with thefilm in the middle, if it's not
hurricane glass.
We go to these trade shows allthe time.
There's some really cool stuffout there for people listening
that are outside of the SouthFlorida area.
Lots of really cool stuff fromglass becoming privacy, glass
with the flip of a switch, glassbecoming more energy efficient,
(57:04):
with different coatings thatcan be used, self-cleaning glass
.
You know, forget the old windowwasher, but when natural rain
hits the glass, it washes it.
Um, decorative glass.
There are cool things out there.
Unfortunately, in the impactworld, there's nothing really
(57:27):
that cool on the horizon otherthan being innovative from an
energy efficiency standpoint,maybe from a privacy standpoint,
that in the glass, in theframes, manufacturers are being
innovative.
They want this architecturallook.
Maybe they have slimmer profileframes, maybe they have
different color options.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
But I wish I had better news for you that there's
no, I love all thosearchitectural home shows and I,
like I love what you said aboutthe privacy glass and the
self-cleaning glass, so we needto meld those with the impact
glass, and then we've got it.
We've got it all.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Yeah, I mean.
Listen, listen, you said itbest earlier.
You know what.
What are people thinking about?
They're thinking about what itcosts.
So the more bells and whistlesthat you can, you can put on
these impact products, the morethey cost.
And that may be whymanufacturers just stick with
the basics and say, okay, thebuilding code is going to change
(58:28):
, we got to make sure ourproduct meets the structural
building code and maybe even theenergy code, but other than
that, we're not going to reallydo anything too crazy around the
country or the world.
There are technologies outthere of which the glass creates
electricity power that willsend power back to the building
(58:54):
or your home or your panel.
I'm not an electrician so Ireally can't tell you exactly
how it works, but think of it aslittle, tiny, tiny wires that
you can't even see in the glassthat are acting like solar
panels and they're absorbingnatural light sun to create
power.
So that's something really coolthat's out there not really
(59:15):
here in South Florida, but forthose of you listening outside
of South Florida, really coolstuff.
Speaker 1 (59:19):
That is really cool.
You have given me so much tothink about, even for my clients
, but also for my personalresidents.
Ben, where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (59:30):
Well again, my name is Ben Friedman.
I'm the president and owner ofCity Quiet Windows and Doors.
My email address is my name,ben B-E-N at City C-I-T-I quiet.
Q-u-i-e-t abbreviation forFlorida, flcom.
Ben at cityquietflcom, ourwebsite,
cityquiethurricanewindowscom.
(59:52):
You can find me by-.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
Well, we can find you out and about in South Florida.
I can tell people this Ben hasthe best parties, he's
everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
You can find me pretty much anywhere Instagram.
Call Donna, she knows where tofind me.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Thanks, Ben, for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to follow and rateus on your favorite podcast
platform, or visitTakeItToTheBoardcom for more
ways to connect.
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