May 21, 2025 • 33 mins
Life in community associations can feel like a pressure cooker—board members navigating tough calls, homeowners facing surprise assessments, and industry professionals managing nonstop demands. The common thread? Stress. In this week’s Take It To The Board podcast, host Donna DiMaggio Berger welcomes Dr. Tai Johnson, a specialist in acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine, for a fascinating conversation on how holistic practices—and understanding your body’s meridians—can help ease the pressure for everyone.
Donna and Dr. Johnson expertly break down the concept of "chi" – the vital energy that flows through our bodies – and explain how blockages created by stressors can be relieved through strategic needle placement. Dr. Johnson reveals how acupuncture shifts us from the sympathetic "fight-or-flight" state (where most of us constantly operate) to the parasympathetic "rest-and-digest" mode where healing can occur. This transition proves particularly valuable for those navigating the complex interpersonal dynamics of community governance.
Beyond the needles, the conversation offers practical self-care techniques anyone can implement immediately. Learn about tongue diagnosis (what Dr. Johnson calls a "Chinese MRI"), the significance of ear massage, and how different body pains might reflect specific emotional patterns – lower back pain often signaling feelings of being unsupported-perfect for understanding board-related stress. Dr. Johnson also shares insights from her nonprofit work providing community acupuncture for veterans with PTSD, demonstrating the accessibility of this healing modality.
While the tensions of community association living aren't disappearing anytime soon, this episode provides valuable tools to approach them with greater balance and resilience. Whether you're curious about Eastern medicine or desperately seeking stress relief, you'll walk away with practical techniques to incorporate into your busy life. Ready to rethink your approach to wellness? Your meridians might thank you.
Conversation Highlights:
- Common misconceptions about acupuncture
- The effect of acupuncture on the nervous system
- Specific acupuncture points effective for reducing stress and anxiety
- Benefits of acupuncture for sleep quality and mental clarity in leadership roles
- Alternative traditional Chinese medicine techniques for stress relief (e.g., cupping, herbal remedies, acupressure)
- The role of meditation and breathwork in complementing acupuncture for stress management
- Quick and actionable stress-relief techniques for those without time for regular sessions
- Simple self-applied acupressure points for use during stressful moments like HOA meetings or negotiations
- Tips on choosing the right acupuncture practitioner for stress relief
Related Links:
- Podcast: Radical Self-Care Can Change the World with Shelly Tygielski, Founder of Pandemic Love
- Podcast: The Mental Health Challenge with Chris Ayoub, President, RealManage
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi everyone.
I'm attorney DonnaDiMaggio-Berger and this is Take
it to the Board where we speakcondo and HOA Community
association.
Life can be a real pressurecooker.
Board members face toughdecisions, homeowners deal with
unexpected assessments andprofessionals like attorneys
juggle constant demands.
The one thing we all shareStress.
(00:24):
But what if the key to managingit isn't just in your mindset,
but in your meridians?
Today, we're diving into theancient practice of acupuncture
with Dr Tai Johnson.
Dr Tai has a doctorate inacupuncture and traditional
Chinese medicine, or TCM, fromthe Atlantic Institute for
Oriental Medicine.
She has devoted her career toproviding holistic,
(00:45):
patient-centered care whilementoring future generations of
acupuncturists.
As someone who has personallyexperienced the benefits of her
work, I'm excited to explore howacupuncture and Eastern
medicine can help us handle thestress that comes with community
living.
Get ready to rethink yourapproach to wellness.
The goal today is to give yousome practical tips on how to
(01:06):
manage the stress in your busylives.
So, dr Tai, welcome to Take itto the Board.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hi, good morning.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Well, I have to tell you I was a little stressed
getting here this morning due toheavy traffic.
So you know, as I said, I'mprobably going to be calling you
later for an acupuncturesession.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, we're all going to learn a little something
today, aren't we?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
We are.
So why don't we start with themain principles behind
acupuncture and how it helpswith stress relief?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So acupuncture is the understanding that everything
is energy, life force or chi,right?
So I had a teacher who said adead tree has no chi.
So that was the way of usunderstanding that that is it's
what animates us, right?
What?
What gives us life.
So the chi is supposed to beflowing freely throughout our
(01:53):
body.
However, different lifestyleeffects, stressors, different
things like that will createblockages in your chi, even
physical trauma, you know.
You stub your toe, you have a,you haveages in your chi, even
physical trauma.
You stub your toe, you havepain in your toe for a certain
amount of time until it's ableto move freely again.
So the idea is, withacupuncture you are helping the
(02:13):
free flow of the chi, which isgetting your body back into
homeostasis, where it should beif we didn't have all of these
external factors.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So I first tried acupuncture years and years ago
on a cruise, dr Tai, and to me Ifelt nothing.
Does that mean my chi wascompletely aligned?
I mean, I barely walked out.
It was my first everacupuncture session.
I felt nothing, didn't feeldifferent.
But now, as I said in the intro, I've had sessions with you and
(02:41):
I do feel more relaxed.
So was it just?
Is it always the sameexperience, or are there times
when you may walk away from anacupuncture session and feel
like you know, you were justsleeping for 20 minutes?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, the idea with acupuncture is that it's putting
you into what's calledparasympathetic.
So you have sympathetic, whichis fight or flight, which most
of us are all too familiar with,and then you have
parasympathetic, which would bethe antithesis of that.
So with the parasympathetic,that's rest and digest.
So if you went into anacupuncture session feeling a
certain amount of stress andthen you were able to go into
(03:19):
parasympathetic and relax, thatwould be a benefit within itself
, because now your body is ableto go into a restful state and
heal what it needs to heal.
So is that something thatyou're going to say?
Hey, you know, I went into thegym, I did one set up.
I didn't feel any.
You know, it's a muscle that weneed to flex, because we are
always so much in that fight orflight that a lot of times after
(03:41):
the acupuncture session youjust feel relaxed.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
But you could go in relaxed.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You could go in relaxed Right.
So that's something too.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It doesn't always.
I wanted to ask you that itdoesn't always have to be about
fixing something.
It could be about preventingsomething too right.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Prevention is the main mechanism behind the
acupuncture.
So with the prevention, we'rekeeping your body at an optimal
rate so that if there is anissue that comes in an external
pathogen, say somebody sneezesright in your face your body is
able to fight it because yourimmune system is in a good place
.
If you are constantly understressors, like we are in a
(04:17):
capitalist society, we do have adepletion of our immune system.
So if you're generally healthy,you might not need acupuncture
on a weekly basis.
You could do a monthlymaintenance type thing, which is
what I like to do.
But if there is somethinghappening, say I do catch a cold
I will do several treatments ina row.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
How come sometimes I go in and I get like eight
needles and sometimes I need 30?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
eight needles and sometimes I need 30.
How do you know?
So I also teach at theacupuncture college now and I
tell the students a lot thatonce you learn all of these
concepts and you have anunderstanding within yourself,
then you create your owntechniques and style as how you
do it Right.
So it's kind of like when yougo to those places where you're
like everybody's painting thesame picture, you know like one
of those places and everybody'spainting the same picture the
(05:07):
sip and draw the sip and draw.
Yes, right, but you know,everybody looks a little bit
different, so everybody hastheir style.
Some people are a little moreaggressive with the needles,
Some people are more gentle.
I tend to be very gentlebecause I'm not a big fan of
needles.
Ironically, some people areafraid of them, you know.
So I try to be as gentle aspossible while still creating an
(05:27):
effect.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So somebody comes to you, dr Tai, brand new patient
never had acupuncture before,but they're feeling very
stressed.
They've always been interestedin this modality.
Where do you start with them?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, as a physician, the way we do our diagnostics
is through the tongue and pulse.
So we're going to ask you tolook at your tongue and with the
tongue.
There are different places onthe tongue that give us
information and the coloring ofthe tongue, the size of the
tongue.
Is it swollen in your mouth?
Do you have teeth marks?
(05:59):
Is there redness on the tip?
You know what's your codinglooking like.
You know, and that'll give usan idea.
I call it a Chinese MRI becauseit'll give us an idea of all of
your internal organs, justbased on your tongue.
So you don't even have to tellme half the things.
Once I look at your tongue, Igo oh, how's your digestion?
Oh, it looks like you don'tsleep very well.
(06:19):
You know, like all of thesethings are kind of laid out for
us with this.
You know thousands year oldChinese practice.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
We're all going to be looking at our tongues after
listening, correct, what colorshould it be?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It should be a light pink with a thin white coating.
That would be the ideal.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And if it's red or if it's your own?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So with Chinese medicine, everything is within
relationship to the other, theyin and the yang.
I'm sure most people have heardof or are familiar with that
concept.
So it's hot, it's cold, it's up, it's down, it's left, it's
right, it's in, it's out right,and so we're trying to find the
balance and find thathomeostasis.
Where's the middle road right?
So we're trying to keep youfrom having like a huge gap to
(07:07):
having like a small gap, becausewe're always going to have
variations throughout the day,but we want to make sure that
the variations aren't supersuper high, super super low.
So if your tongue was very red,that would indicate heat within
the body.
And so in Chinese medicine,anything that happens outside of
the body can happen inside thebody.
So heat, wind, fire, dampness,all of these things can happen
(07:30):
outside, but it can also happeninside.
So the red tongue wouldindicate heat, A pale tongue
would indicate blood deficiency,A swollen tongue would be qi
deficiency, you know, and so onand so on.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So you've looked at the tongue, you've looked at the
pulse.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Now you're going to get started with the acupuncture
session.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Where do you, where do you, can you, just, you know,
kind of walk us through whereyou place the needles?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, it all depends on what I see on the tongue.
So if I saw, you know, a veryred tip per se, that area, the
tip of the tongue indicates theheart, and that doesn't mean
that you have heart disease.
That means that there'ssomething happening
energetically with the heart,and it usually indicates anxiety
, right Overthinking, and sothis is going to be somebody
(08:16):
who's very cerebral.
So I would start with pointsthat would get you out of your
head and more into your body sothat you could have a more
relaxed state.
Yin Tong is a very popularpoint.
Most people know it.
We call it the glass of wine,and it's right in between your
eyebrows, it's your third eye.
So that's usually where I startwith that, and then I like to
(08:38):
do auricular points, especiallywhen I'm doing community
acupuncture, I don't have accessto the whole body, so the ear
is a microcosm of the whole body, so there are certain points on
the ear that can put you into aparasympathetic state.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
You've done that for me, and then you did this little
seeding.
Now can you explain what thatis?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
So that's like an acupuncture treatment to go.
We have these little seeds thatwe place again on the
acupuncture points that we tapeto your ear so you can keep
those for several days.
And within those several dayswe encourage you to stimulate
those points to remind your bodyhey, everything's OK, hey
(09:27):
everything's OK, or work on mydigestion or you know whatever
it is that we put the points infor.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So this is take it to the board.
I said in the introduction youknow, we have people listening
all over and we have people inthe community association
industry.
I think when you and I firstmet and you asked me what I did
and I said I represent condoboards and HOA boards, you said
oh, that explains your red,swollen, inflamed tongue.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Very likely, very likely.
Let's get started.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So let's say we're had so many people who are
stressed right now.
Dr Tai, I've been doing this along time.
There's always been stress andtension in community
associations.
Whenever you have multiplepeople living together, you're
going to have differing opinions.
I just had an emergency meetingyesterday with a full board.
(10:13):
The board was just notfunctioning well.
There were personal issues,there was even a death threat,
and we got up in one room and weworked it out.
I probably should have had youthere doing a little auricular
acupressure and acupuncture withthem.
But if somebody were to want touse this as a stress relief
(10:34):
modality, how does it compare tolike just getting a massage?
Because I think most people arevery comfortable.
They understand getting amassage feels good.
It's a method of stress relief.
I think acupuncture for a lotof people.
They don't know it, they don'tunderstand it.
They may be a little afraid ofit.
Like you said, I don't likeneedles either.
So what's the differencebetween those modalities in
(10:58):
terms of stress relief?
The massage which everybodyknows, and acupuncture?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well, interestingly enough, I was a massage
therapist before I became anacupuncturist, and so I
understood massage as being avery beneficial treatment, not
only for muscular pains andaches but also as a soothing.
You know touch is healing right.
So like when, when we'refeeling really stressed out, all
(11:24):
we want is like a hug from mom,you know that kind of thing.
So touch is very healing.
But I saw acupuncture as kindof like another step forward
where not only can I help inthat way physically, but I can
also create changes within thebrain chemistry with the
acupuncture.
(11:44):
So I think that they're bothbeneficial.
I work with massage therapistsA lot of times.
When I give an acupuncturetreatment I can recommend like,
hey, let's get you a couple oftreatments with massage as well.
I think they worksynergistically.
I can't say that one's betterthan the other.
If you're doing either one ofthem, it's a benefit to you.
I just I fell in love withacupuncture as I saw it work for
(12:08):
my father as he was in histransition time, and it just it
shifted my perspective of it.
He was diagnosed with prostatecancer and then the radiation
actually burned a hole throughhis large intestine and I was
just newly in acupuncture schooland I had learned the large
intestine meridian, which is onthe arm, and I started massaging
(12:29):
those points.
He was in a lot of pain when Istarted and he was able to fall
asleep with me just massagingthose points on his arm and I
said wait a minute, there'ssomething really amazing about
this because it works by sendingsignals to the brain, you know
so.
So that to me I think they'reboth amazing and I can't I'm not
going to poo poo one or theother.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, I mean that's.
That's an amazing story.
And you're right, A lot ofpeople do look to acupuncture as
pain relief, right, I thinkeven more, you're a doctorate of
Eastern medicine, but I thinkeven a lot of Western doctors
now Western practitioners now dorefer patients to acupuncture
for pain relief, correct?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, I also have a lot of patients who are nurses
and physicians who come to uswhen all else has failed.
A lot of times we are thedefault.
But I think that the mindsetand understanding around
acupuncture is shifting,especially since I began in the
early 2000s to now.
You know where it's a lot moresought after because people are
understanding hey, this actuallyworks.
How long does the effects last?
(13:32):
Dr Tai, it depends.
So acupuncture is accumulatives.
The more you do it, the lessyou need it.
So in the beginning if you hadan acute problem, hey, you woke
up and you have a stiff neck,you know I would say, hey, let's
get several treatments in a rowin a short amount of time, and
once your pain level goes down,then we can go on to.
You know, we can back off alittle bit.
(13:53):
A lot of times the firsttreatment might be, you know,
maybe 24 hours, and then othertimes I could put one needle in
and that's it.
You know, my mom had sciatica.
I put one needle in her buttand that was it for her.
She never had it again.
So you never know One time andyou know so, it's really a
(14:19):
crapshoot as far as how it'sgoing to work for you.
Also, if I put you intoparasympathetic and everything's
nice and beautiful and then yougo out in traffic and drive a
crazy person.
It's like there's a balance,there's a lifestyle.
That's there.
Also, if we're working ondigestion and you have dairy
issues, you can't have dairy,but you go home and you eat a
tub of ice cream.
(14:39):
You know there's, I do my part,but you have to do your part.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, you're going to counteract the positive effects
.
I still don't understand howputting strategically placed
needles in my body affects thenervous system.
Can you, can you help me?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
understand body affects the nervous system.
Can you help me understand?
Absolutely, I can.
So that is definitely aquestion that we, as Western
society, we need to see thefacts, we need to see the data
like how does that actually work, whereas, like I said,
acupuncture has been around forthousands of years.
So what they're doing now?
When I was in the doctorateprogram, I heard of a study
(15:18):
where they were doing MRIs andso they would put someone in an
MRI machine and then they wouldput a needle in to, you know,
li4, which is in the hand.
That's a pretty popular one forheadaches, right, because it's
a master point for your head andyour face.
So they would put a needle intoLI4 and then they would see
what parts of the brain lit up.
(15:38):
So we're communicating directlywith your nervous system.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Once I had a needle it started vibrating almost.
What would that be?
Is that just you hit a certain,we hit a certain, like like
pressure point, or yeah, so fulldisclaimer.
You didn't do this to me.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I don't think it was a bad thing, it was maybe it
wasn't.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Maybe it's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, so again, working with the nervous system.
The nervous system is whatcontrols motor control, right?
So when we're sending signals,signals are coming back.
It's a loop.
I'm talking to you, you'retalking back to me, so that
could be the mechanism.
If you asked, you know one ofmy Chinese practitioner doctors.
They would say that's the cheat.
But I would say that that isyour nervous system working.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
You kind of touched on it before.
You know this is holistic right.
So acupuncture is one part ofthe puzzle.
The other would be you talk toyour clients about diet and
nutrition, lifestyle, sleep, allthe other stress management
tools.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yes, yes, there's a lot, there's a lot.
Again, holistic is looking atthe whole picture.
So it's like if I do my partbut you don't come and do your
part, we don't have a fullfunctioning.
You know treatment going on Ifyou're, you know if we're
working on insomnia and you'reup late on your phone scrolling
through TikTok.
You know there's only so much Icould do.
(17:03):
You know, did you just do theside?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, we're only catching.
We're only catching audio.
But yes, I did.
I did a bit of a eyebrow raisewith that.
I mean, look again.
I'm going to get back to ouraudience, which you know.
You have people in very highstress jobs and high stress
roles, so there's only so muchthey can do and, by the way, a
(17:27):
lot of these are retired people,so you know, who have decided
to jump into these leadershiproles in their communities, and
it comes with a certain level ofstress.
So, for people who can't avoidthe stress associated with their
lifestyle okay, I'm talkingabout diet and nutrition, but
they can't escape the stress interms of the roles that they
(17:50):
play during the day Anyrecommendations?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, I think that at the end of the day, it goes
back to also you're the only onein there, right, like you're
the only person inside of you.
So that means that you actuallydo have the control.
And it's about watching thatinternal dialogue.
But it's hard to catch it a lotof times because we're so
accustomed to it.
You know, we've told our mindkeep me safe right From
(18:14):
childhood.
Keep me safe, mind.
So then the mind goes oh,what's that?
Who's that?
Who said that?
Why?
Why'd you say it like that?
I have a ketchup on my shirt.
You know all of that kind ofstuff and it's like a constant
dialogue of you know, iseverything okay?
Is everything okay?
Is everything okay?
So, reframing that telling A,telling your mind hey, you did a
great job keeping me safe.
(18:34):
I'm still here, but now I'm anadult and I have autonomy, right
, and if I need to leave or Idon't feel safe, I can leave and
being able to catch that.
So that's the other part of it.
Do I even catch it when I startspiraling out of control in
this mental turmoil that we allgo through?
Right, everybody's guilty of it.
So meditation is a huge one anda lot of people are afraid of
(18:57):
meditation because they say, oh,I can't meditate, my mind won't
shut up.
But it's not about telling yourmind be quiet, it's about
observing that.
That's separate than you.
That's my mind.
I'm watching, so my mind is atool that I'm using.
And if I stay too close to thatmind, it's like, you know,
staring too close at the TV,right, so you feel like you're
(19:17):
inside the TV.
But if you're able to just takea few deep breaths and say, hey
, I've noticed that my mind isracing, that doesn't mean I'm
racing and I can separate myselffrom that and give yourself
some space from that.
And becoming the observer iswhat helps us kind of manage
that.
Over overthinking, over doing,over whatever, stress the
(19:41):
observing.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
We've never talked about meditation.
Do you teach meditation?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
as well.
I do not teach meditation, butI am a huge proponent and if you
ever want to do meditation,just get on the YouTube.
Okay, there are so many, thereare so many meditations and for
a lot of the patients I just say, hey, find somebody that you
like the sound of their voice,find somebody that is going to
talk you through something,cause a lot of times when we're
(20:05):
starting to flex that muscle ofthe observer versus the mind, we
need somebody to keep our mindbusy.
So if you do a guidedmeditation, you can listen to.
You know somebody saying, hey,relax your shoulders, you know,
calm your, relax your jaw, andso you have something that your
mind can focus on while you'refocusing on your breathing and
(20:26):
actually letting some of thisstuff go.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know a lot of the points you just mentioned were.
You know, I was listening toanother one of my favorite
podcasts, which is Mel Robbins,and she was talking about how
people can disrespect each otherand how to handle that.
So I do feel that in my line ofwork, where people do get very
riled up, is disrespect right Ifthey're at a board meeting and
(20:51):
they can't be heard orsomebody's using profanity,
people are talking over eachother.
Immediately, it's that I'mbeing disrespected, the tension
rises and you know we're off tothe races from there.
One of her key points wasprotect your energy and what are
we talking about?
And so it's like some thingsyou have to just let it go.
(21:15):
It's not worth expending agreat deal of energy on.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
A hundred percent I would, because you know our
energy is our only commodity,right?
Like if you don't have yourhealth, you have nothing.
That kind of thing, you know.
And a lot of times like, like Isaid, overthinking that will
spend your energy, that willmake you cheat efficient.
But also I read something thatsaid you're either coming from a
place of fear or love.
So I think that a lot of times,when people are, you know,
(21:40):
getting riled up like that it's,it's a fear, like you know, is
it going to be okay, am I safe?
That kind of dialogue so beingable to have that quiet time
where you're meditating andyou're telling yourself, even
affirmations are good too.
Hey, I am safe, I am loved, Iam okay, you know cause a lot of
times the dialogue is, you know, is it going to be okay, is
(22:02):
everything okay?
I'm afraid you know that kindof thing.
So shifting that dialogue alsokind of turns off all of those
warning signals that arehappening within the brain that
make us feel unsafe.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Ultimately, there are people that you're.
You're one of them.
I'm just going to say whereyou're around them and you just
feel better because they havegreat energy.
Yeah, you are, absolutely havethat effect.
Let me ask you, Dr Tai does chi, or energy, does it have to
naturally be depleted the olderyou get?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So there is a practice in Chinese medicine
called qigong.
That's also a great one,especially for older folks who
are not able to do more vigorousworkouts and things like that,
and it's a practice.
I'm not I'm not proficient init.
My friend, Dr Walker, isfantastic with it.
If you ever want his phonenumber, I'm happy to share it.
(22:52):
But it's a way of harnessingthat energy and really focusing
it and being aware of it.
Because you know, once you putyour attention on something,
then you, you notice it more.
You know, it's like I've I'vebeen obsessed with getting a
white Volvo, so I see themeverywhere.
I it more.
You know, it's like I've I'vebeen obsessed with getting a
white Volvo, so I see themeverywhere.
(23:12):
I'm like, oh, there's my Volvo,there's my Volvo, so that's the
thing.
So if you're focusing on yourchi, then you feel it more.
And I mean, there are somepeople you are actually one of
those people where I'm like,you're, how old.
That can't be Right, Because Ithink that that, that, that
energy, that life force, is verystrong within you.
You know, and that is the chi,is what's nourishing your skin,
your vibrancy, making you soincredibly beautiful.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Oh well, that is very nice, it's very nice of you to
say but so we can protect.
It's not just look at some timewe're all going to run out of
chi, right?
It's just, it's the cycle oflife, but it doesn't need to be
such a steep drop off, if I'mhearing you correctly.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Absolutely so.
I actually somehow by default,ended up specializing in
geriatrics.
I just so happened to resonatewith the older community and my
oldest patient is now 92 yearsold and he is fully cognitively
functioning 92 years old.
He walks into the office, he'sgot a great sense of humor, he
(24:10):
is on it and popping.
So I don't think that 92 has tolook decrepit and invalid.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah that's encouraging.
My mom is 92.
My dad is going to be 96.
They're stubborn and they'regoing, but they don't have the
vibrancy that you're talkingabout.
I would love to have themembrace something like
acupuncture, because my dad's ina lot of pain, he's in constant
pain, but again, he's the typeof person he's never going to do
(24:41):
that.
So are there other modalitiespeople can use, other than if
they just can't do acupuncture?
What else would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Massage, qigong, meditation, all of those things
help us kind of turn off thatpanic that happens in our brain,
even with pain.
We start to panic, right, whatis this thing?
Is it going to be here forever?
Am I ever going to get better,you know?
So all of that feeds into thepain loop as well.
So I think that those threethings I mean there's
(25:15):
acupressure is an option Ifacupressure.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Let's talk about that .
And then because I think breathwork is easy because everybody
breathes right.
Meditation is even me and I'vebeen practicing meditation for
years and I'm still not good atit.
It's intimidating.
But breath work right, that'seasy, that's pretty accessible.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Well, one thing that people don't realize is, a lot
of times when you're breathing,we're breathing in our chest,
right, we're doing these shallowbreaths and that can contribute
to neck pain, shoulder pain,because everything is up here,
you know, and so just focusingyour breath and letting it go
down deeper into your stomach isjust just that mental shift can
(26:00):
, can help calm you.
So, yeah, everybody can dobreath work.
But look at a baby.
You know, watch a baby.
When it's sleeping, the bellyis going up and down, not the
shoulders.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
You know everything about the baby is is comfortable
unless they're screaming forright and unless they're hungry
or sleepy.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
there's always just a few mechanisms, though, but
that's that follows us throughlife too, Right.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, so you mentioned acupressure.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Talk to us about that , right?
Yeah, so you mentionedacupressure.
Talk to us about that.
So acupressure is just usingthe acupuncture points and
applying pressure as opposed toputting a needle in.
So any place that you arefeeling pain, just applying
pressure to that area can helprelieve the pain.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So busy professional I'm sitting at my desk later.
Are there certain places whereI can be applying pressure
that's going to affect maybe mydigestion or my you know
different organs?
Are there different pressurepoints that somebody sitting in
an office can apply tothemselves?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yes, you know, the one that would encompass
everything would be to justmassage your ear Because, like I
said, it's a microcosm of yourwhole body.
So if you're massaging your ear, you're basically working on
your everything your internal,external, mental, emotional.
Yeah, massage your ear, it'seasy, nobody will notice.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I do that.
I actually love to have my earsmassaged.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah yeah, people think you're just flirting with
them.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
All right, that is a really good takeaway.
We've been talking.
I know a lot of people talkabout pain relief, physical pain
relief, when they're thinkingabout acupuncture.
Can it also help mental pain?
Somebody's sad, somebody'sdepressed?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
somebody's afraid.
Yeah, so again, it's holistic.
So even when we're working onyour physical pain, we're also
working on the mental, emotional, we're also working on the
external stressors, those kindsof things, because it's not just
this one-sided issue that youhave right.
So even pain in differentlocations of your body can
indicate different thoughts andbeliefs that you have.
(28:06):
Like, lower back pain has to dowith feeling unsupported.
So I like to tell people youknow, a lot of times with that
lower back pain, the callscoming from inside the building,
so it's not necessarily thatyour spouse is not supporting
you or you know your family isnot, or your friends.
It's more about your internaldialogue and saying like I have
to do everything myself.
(28:27):
You know that's usually themechanism behind it mentally,
emotionally, with the shouldersthe left shoulder is repressed,
grief, the right shoulder isrepressed anger.
You know, anything from theknees down has to do with not
being able to move forward.
Anything with your neck is likenot wanting to see your
surroundings.
So even when you're telling mehey, I just got, I slept.
(28:48):
Funny, it's my neck.
It's like uh-huh, uh-huh.
What else is going on?
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
What about addiction issues?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Absolutely Uh-huh.
Yep, there's two.
There's two protocols.
There's one called thebattlefield and the other one
called NADA.
Those are two that help withwell.
The NADA in particular helpswith addiction.
Battlefield helps more withlike a PTSD.
You know we use that a lot onveterans, but the NADA protocol
is five points in the air thathave been proven to be effective
(29:18):
on treating addiction.
I do have one of my bestfriends, dr Tahina.
You might've met her before,but she worked in a clinic, a
drug rehab clinic, doing theNADA protocol.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Well, I wanted to ask you.
You work with a nonprofit thatsupports veterans suffering from
PTSD.
Can you tell us about your workwith that organization?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Well, currently I work with Eastern Acupuncture
and Wellness Dr Jennifer Cruz,but in 2020, she came to us and
said hey, I want to start anonprofit.
Covid is running rampant andyou know the stress and anxiety
is through the roof.
And we said, okay, great, thatsounds awesome.
How are we going to keepourselves safe?
But sure, let's figure it out.
So we rented a space and wewere able to fit 10 chairs you
(30:04):
know, spacing them apart, wewere wearing our masks, we did
all the things we needed to doand it really took off and it's
still.
It's still thriving, which Ithink is just so amazing.
So what we do is we offercommunity acupuncturists
community style acupuncture, andthat way it's affordable.
There's a lot of people whodon't have insurance and it
(30:25):
would be considered a luxury forthem to get acupuncture.
So we said, hey, how do we makeit accessible to everybody?
So we do it in a, in a groupsetting.
Um, currently, I take up tofive patients at a time.
Um, and for our veterans anyveteran that we have they they
go through the VA so they'reable to see us at Eastern
acupuncture, which is ourfor-profit, and they get a
(30:48):
certain amount of treatments.
But once their treatments runout and they're waiting for
another series.
They're more than welcome tojoin me in community acupuncture
pro bono.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
And I have participated in your community
acupuncture.
I paid and I was let me tellour listeners.
So you're in a room, you're ina comfortable lawn chair, dr Tai
comes over, she does her thing,puts her needles in, turns out
the lights.
It's very nice and it is justyeah, it's just really peaceful
(31:17):
and it's amazing.
That is one of the things thatmade me such a fan of you and
Eastern acupuncture is becauseyou were doing this as a
community service for vets and Iassume that there's a lot of
scientific data on how it doeshelp vets with PTSD.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Absolutely it does.
Again, it goes back to how isit working in the body?
It's putting you back intoparasympathetic.
So you know, if anybody's insympathetic it's somebody who's
been in a war zone, you know.
So that fight or flight isreally hard to turn off, you
know.
And even the mind chatter andam I safe?
Can you imagine?
So yes, it's very effective.
(31:55):
I have some of my veterans aremy absolute favorite people.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Okay.
So, dr Tai, is there anythingelse that you want to leave our
listeners with when it comes toacupuncture?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yes, try it.
Just give it a try.
It's not going to hurt you,especially if you come to me.
I'm very gentle, but give it atry, see if it's something that
resonates with you.
You never know until you try.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Love that, and I was going to echo those sentiments
as well, to say that, look, thestress that comes with community
living it's not going anywhere,it's going to be here.
Stress that comes withcommunity living it's not going
anywhere, it's going to be here.
So why not try a modality thatmight help you cope with?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
it.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
A little better at least, dr Tai where can people
find you.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Oh, I'm at Eastern Acupuncture and Wellness in
Plantation Florida and I also dothe AcuMontres community style
acupuncture there.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
You may be seeing me latertoday due to my traffic-related
stress this morning, but Ireally want to thank you for
coming on.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
It was such a pleasure, donna, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to follow and rateus on your favorite podcast
platform, or visitTakeItToTheBoardcom for more
ways to connect.
Hi everyone.
I'm attorney DonnaDiMaggio-Berger and this is Take
it to the Board where we speakcondo and HOA Community
association.
Life can be a real pressurecooker.
Board members face toughdecisions, homeowners deal with
unexpected assessments andprofessionals like attorneys
juggle constant demands.
The one thing we all shareStress.
(00:24):
But what if the key to managingit isn't just in your mindset,
but in your meridians?
Today, we're diving into theancient practice of acupuncture
with Dr Tai Johnson.
Dr Tai has a doctorate inacupuncture and traditional
Chinese medicine, or TCM, fromthe Atlantic Institute for
Oriental Medicine.
She has devoted her career toproviding holistic,
(00:45):
patient-centered care whilementoring future generations of
acupuncturists.
As someone who has personallyexperienced the benefits of her
work, I'm excited to explore howacupuncture and Eastern
medicine can help us handle thestress that comes with community
living.
Get ready to rethink yourapproach to wellness.
The goal today is to give yousome practical tips on how to
(01:06):
manage the stress in your busylives.
So, dr Tai, welcome to Take itto the Board.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hi, good morning.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Well, I have to tell you I was a little stressed
getting here this morning due toheavy traffic.
So you know, as I said, I'mprobably going to be calling you
later for an acupuncturesession.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, we're all going to learn a little something
today, aren't we?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
We are.
So why don't we start with themain principles behind
acupuncture and how it helpswith stress relief?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So acupuncture is the understanding that everything
is energy, life force or chi,right?
So I had a teacher who said adead tree has no chi.
So that was the way of usunderstanding that that is it's
what animates us, right?
What?
What gives us life.
So the chi is supposed to beflowing freely throughout our
(01:53):
body.
However, different lifestyleeffects, stressors, different
things like that will createblockages in your chi, even
physical trauma, you know.
You stub your toe, you have a,you haveages in your chi, even
physical trauma.
You stub your toe, you havepain in your toe for a certain
amount of time until it's ableto move freely again.
So the idea is, withacupuncture you are helping the
(02:13):
free flow of the chi, which isgetting your body back into
homeostasis, where it should beif we didn't have all of these
external factors.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So I first tried acupuncture years and years ago
on a cruise, dr Tai, and to me Ifelt nothing.
Does that mean my chi wascompletely aligned?
I mean, I barely walked out.
It was my first everacupuncture session.
I felt nothing, didn't feeldifferent.
But now, as I said in the intro, I've had sessions with you and
(02:41):
I do feel more relaxed.
So was it just?
Is it always the sameexperience, or are there times
when you may walk away from anacupuncture session and feel
like you know, you were justsleeping for 20 minutes?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, the idea with acupuncture is that it's putting
you into what's calledparasympathetic.
So you have sympathetic, whichis fight or flight, which most
of us are all too familiar with,and then you have
parasympathetic, which would bethe antithesis of that.
So with the parasympathetic,that's rest and digest.
So if you went into anacupuncture session feeling a
certain amount of stress andthen you were able to go into
(03:19):
parasympathetic and relax, thatwould be a benefit within itself
, because now your body is ableto go into a restful state and
heal what it needs to heal.
So is that something thatyou're going to say?
Hey, you know, I went into thegym, I did one set up.
I didn't feel any.
You know, it's a muscle that weneed to flex, because we are
always so much in that fight orflight that a lot of times after
(03:41):
the acupuncture session youjust feel relaxed.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
But you could go in relaxed.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You could go in relaxed Right.
So that's something too.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It doesn't always.
I wanted to ask you that itdoesn't always have to be about
fixing something.
It could be about preventingsomething too right.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Prevention is the main mechanism behind the
acupuncture.
So with the prevention, we'rekeeping your body at an optimal
rate so that if there is anissue that comes in an external
pathogen, say somebody sneezesright in your face your body is
able to fight it because yourimmune system is in a good place
.
If you are constantly understressors, like we are in a
(04:17):
capitalist society, we do have adepletion of our immune system.
So if you're generally healthy,you might not need acupuncture
on a weekly basis.
You could do a monthlymaintenance type thing, which is
what I like to do.
But if there is somethinghappening, say I do catch a cold
I will do several treatments ina row.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
How come sometimes I go in and I get like eight
needles and sometimes I need 30?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
eight needles and sometimes I need 30.
How do you know?
So I also teach at theacupuncture college now and I
tell the students a lot thatonce you learn all of these
concepts and you have anunderstanding within yourself,
then you create your owntechniques and style as how you
do it Right.
So it's kind of like when yougo to those places where you're
like everybody's painting thesame picture, you know like one
of those places and everybody'spainting the same picture the
(05:07):
sip and draw the sip and draw.
Yes, right, but you know,everybody looks a little bit
different, so everybody hastheir style.
Some people are a little moreaggressive with the needles,
Some people are more gentle.
I tend to be very gentlebecause I'm not a big fan of
needles.
Ironically, some people areafraid of them, you know.
So I try to be as gentle aspossible while still creating an
(05:27):
effect.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So somebody comes to you, dr Tai, brand new patient
never had acupuncture before,but they're feeling very
stressed.
They've always been interestedin this modality.
Where do you start with them?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, as a physician, the way we do our diagnostics
is through the tongue and pulse.
So we're going to ask you tolook at your tongue and with the
tongue.
There are different places onthe tongue that give us
information and the coloring ofthe tongue, the size of the
tongue.
Is it swollen in your mouth?
Do you have teeth marks?
(05:59):
Is there redness on the tip?
You know what's your codinglooking like.
You know, and that'll give usan idea.
I call it a Chinese MRI becauseit'll give us an idea of all of
your internal organs, justbased on your tongue.
So you don't even have to tellme half the things.
Once I look at your tongue, Igo oh, how's your digestion?
Oh, it looks like you don'tsleep very well.
(06:19):
You know, like all of thesethings are kind of laid out for
us with this.
You know thousands year oldChinese practice.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
We're all going to be looking at our tongues after
listening, correct, what colorshould it be?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It should be a light pink with a thin white coating.
That would be the ideal.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And if it's red or if it's your own?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So with Chinese medicine, everything is within
relationship to the other, theyin and the yang.
I'm sure most people have heardof or are familiar with that
concept.
So it's hot, it's cold, it's up, it's down, it's left, it's
right, it's in, it's out right,and so we're trying to find the
balance and find thathomeostasis.
Where's the middle road right?
So we're trying to keep youfrom having like a huge gap to
(07:07):
having like a small gap, becausewe're always going to have
variations throughout the day,but we want to make sure that
the variations aren't supersuper high, super super low.
So if your tongue was very red,that would indicate heat within
the body.
And so in Chinese medicine,anything that happens outside of
the body can happen inside thebody.
So heat, wind, fire, dampness,all of these things can happen
(07:30):
outside, but it can also happeninside.
So the red tongue wouldindicate heat, A pale tongue
would indicate blood deficiency,A swollen tongue would be qi
deficiency, you know, and so onand so on.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So you've looked at the tongue, you've looked at the
pulse.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Now you're going to get started with the acupuncture
session.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Where do you, where do you, can you, just, you know,
kind of walk us through whereyou place the needles?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, it all depends on what I see on the tongue.
So if I saw, you know, a veryred tip per se, that area, the
tip of the tongue indicates theheart, and that doesn't mean
that you have heart disease.
That means that there'ssomething happening
energetically with the heart,and it usually indicates anxiety
, right Overthinking, and sothis is going to be somebody
(08:16):
who's very cerebral.
So I would start with pointsthat would get you out of your
head and more into your body sothat you could have a more
relaxed state.
Yin Tong is a very popularpoint.
Most people know it.
We call it the glass of wine,and it's right in between your
eyebrows, it's your third eye.
So that's usually where I startwith that, and then I like to
(08:38):
do auricular points, especiallywhen I'm doing community
acupuncture, I don't have accessto the whole body, so the ear
is a microcosm of the whole body, so there are certain points on
the ear that can put you into aparasympathetic state.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
You've done that for me, and then you did this little
seeding.
Now can you explain what thatis?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
So that's like an acupuncture treatment to go.
We have these little seeds thatwe place again on the
acupuncture points that we tapeto your ear so you can keep
those for several days.
And within those several dayswe encourage you to stimulate
those points to remind your bodyhey, everything's OK, hey
(09:27):
everything's OK, or work on mydigestion or you know whatever
it is that we put the points infor.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So this is take it to the board.
I said in the introduction youknow, we have people listening
all over and we have people inthe community association
industry.
I think when you and I firstmet and you asked me what I did
and I said I represent condoboards and HOA boards, you said
oh, that explains your red,swollen, inflamed tongue.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Very likely, very likely.
Let's get started.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So let's say we're had so many people who are
stressed right now.
Dr Tai, I've been doing this along time.
There's always been stress andtension in community
associations.
Whenever you have multiplepeople living together, you're
going to have differing opinions.
I just had an emergency meetingyesterday with a full board.
(10:13):
The board was just notfunctioning well.
There were personal issues,there was even a death threat,
and we got up in one room and weworked it out.
I probably should have had youthere doing a little auricular
acupressure and acupuncture withthem.
But if somebody were to want touse this as a stress relief
(10:34):
modality, how does it compare tolike just getting a massage?
Because I think most people arevery comfortable.
They understand getting amassage feels good.
It's a method of stress relief.
I think acupuncture for a lotof people.
They don't know it, they don'tunderstand it.
They may be a little afraid ofit.
Like you said, I don't likeneedles either.
So what's the differencebetween those modalities in
(10:58):
terms of stress relief?
The massage which everybodyknows, and acupuncture?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well, interestingly enough, I was a massage
therapist before I became anacupuncturist, and so I
understood massage as being avery beneficial treatment, not
only for muscular pains andaches but also as a soothing.
You know touch is healing right.
So like when, when we'refeeling really stressed out, all
(11:24):
we want is like a hug from mom,you know that kind of thing.
So touch is very healing.
But I saw acupuncture as kindof like another step forward
where not only can I help inthat way physically, but I can
also create changes within thebrain chemistry with the
acupuncture.
(11:44):
So I think that they're bothbeneficial.
I work with massage therapistsA lot of times.
When I give an acupuncturetreatment I can recommend like,
hey, let's get you a couple oftreatments with massage as well.
I think they worksynergistically.
I can't say that one's betterthan the other.
If you're doing either one ofthem, it's a benefit to you.
I just I fell in love withacupuncture as I saw it work for
(12:08):
my father as he was in histransition time, and it just it
shifted my perspective of it.
He was diagnosed with prostatecancer and then the radiation
actually burned a hole throughhis large intestine and I was
just newly in acupuncture schooland I had learned the large
intestine meridian, which is onthe arm, and I started massaging
(12:29):
those points.
He was in a lot of pain when Istarted and he was able to fall
asleep with me just massagingthose points on his arm and I
said wait a minute, there'ssomething really amazing about
this because it works by sendingsignals to the brain, you know
so.
So that to me I think they'reboth amazing and I can't I'm not
going to poo poo one or theother.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, I mean that's.
That's an amazing story.
And you're right, A lot ofpeople do look to acupuncture as
pain relief, right, I thinkeven more, you're a doctorate of
Eastern medicine, but I thinkeven a lot of Western doctors
now Western practitioners now dorefer patients to acupuncture
for pain relief, correct?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, I also have a lot of patients who are nurses
and physicians who come to uswhen all else has failed.
A lot of times we are thedefault.
But I think that the mindsetand understanding around
acupuncture is shifting,especially since I began in the
early 2000s to now.
You know where it's a lot moresought after because people are
understanding hey, this actuallyworks.
How long does the effects last?
(13:32):
Dr Tai, it depends.
So acupuncture is accumulatives.
The more you do it, the lessyou need it.
So in the beginning if you hadan acute problem, hey, you woke
up and you have a stiff neck,you know I would say, hey, let's
get several treatments in a rowin a short amount of time, and
once your pain level goes down,then we can go on to.
You know, we can back off alittle bit.
(13:53):
A lot of times the firsttreatment might be, you know,
maybe 24 hours, and then othertimes I could put one needle in
and that's it.
You know, my mom had sciatica.
I put one needle in her buttand that was it for her.
She never had it again.
So you never know One time andyou know so, it's really a
(14:19):
crapshoot as far as how it'sgoing to work for you.
Also, if I put you intoparasympathetic and everything's
nice and beautiful and then yougo out in traffic and drive a
crazy person.
It's like there's a balance,there's a lifestyle.
That's there.
Also, if we're working ondigestion and you have dairy
issues, you can't have dairy,but you go home and you eat a
tub of ice cream.
(14:39):
You know there's, I do my part,but you have to do your part.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, you're going to counteract the positive effects
.
I still don't understand howputting strategically placed
needles in my body affects thenervous system.
Can you, can you help me?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
understand body affects the nervous system.
Can you help me understand?
Absolutely, I can.
So that is definitely aquestion that we, as Western
society, we need to see thefacts, we need to see the data
like how does that actually work, whereas, like I said,
acupuncture has been around forthousands of years.
So what they're doing now?
When I was in the doctorateprogram, I heard of a study
(15:18):
where they were doing MRIs andso they would put someone in an
MRI machine and then they wouldput a needle in to, you know,
li4, which is in the hand.
That's a pretty popular one forheadaches, right, because it's
a master point for your head andyour face.
So they would put a needle intoLI4 and then they would see
what parts of the brain lit up.
(15:38):
So we're communicating directlywith your nervous system.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Once I had a needle it started vibrating almost.
What would that be?
Is that just you hit a certain,we hit a certain, like like
pressure point, or yeah, so fulldisclaimer.
You didn't do this to me.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I don't think it was a bad thing, it was maybe it
wasn't.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Maybe it's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, so again, working with the nervous system.
The nervous system is whatcontrols motor control, right?
So when we're sending signals,signals are coming back.
It's a loop.
I'm talking to you, you'retalking back to me, so that
could be the mechanism.
If you asked, you know one ofmy Chinese practitioner doctors.
They would say that's the cheat.
But I would say that that isyour nervous system working.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
You kind of touched on it before.
You know this is holistic right.
So acupuncture is one part ofthe puzzle.
The other would be you talk toyour clients about diet and
nutrition, lifestyle, sleep, allthe other stress management
tools.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yes, yes, there's a lot, there's a lot.
Again, holistic is looking atthe whole picture.
So it's like if I do my partbut you don't come and do your
part, we don't have a fullfunctioning.
You know treatment going on Ifyou're, you know if we're
working on insomnia and you'reup late on your phone scrolling
through TikTok.
You know there's only so much Icould do.
(17:03):
You know, did you just do theside?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, we're only catching.
We're only catching audio.
But yes, I did.
I did a bit of a eyebrow raisewith that.
I mean, look again.
I'm going to get back to ouraudience, which you know.
You have people in very highstress jobs and high stress
roles, so there's only so muchthey can do and, by the way, a
(17:27):
lot of these are retired people,so you know, who have decided
to jump into these leadershiproles in their communities, and
it comes with a certain level ofstress.
So, for people who can't avoidthe stress associated with their
lifestyle okay, I'm talkingabout diet and nutrition, but
they can't escape the stress interms of the roles that they
(17:50):
play during the day Anyrecommendations?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, I think that at the end of the day, it goes
back to also you're the only onein there, right, like you're
the only person inside of you.
So that means that you actuallydo have the control.
And it's about watching thatinternal dialogue.
But it's hard to catch it a lotof times because we're so
accustomed to it.
You know, we've told our mindkeep me safe right From
(18:14):
childhood.
Keep me safe, mind.
So then the mind goes oh,what's that?
Who's that?
Who said that?
Why?
Why'd you say it like that?
I have a ketchup on my shirt.
You know all of that kind ofstuff and it's like a constant
dialogue of you know, iseverything okay?
Is everything okay?
Is everything okay?
So, reframing that telling A,telling your mind hey, you did a
great job keeping me safe.
(18:34):
I'm still here, but now I'm anadult and I have autonomy, right
, and if I need to leave or Idon't feel safe, I can leave and
being able to catch that.
So that's the other part of it.
Do I even catch it when I startspiraling out of control in
this mental turmoil that we allgo through?
Right, everybody's guilty of it.
So meditation is a huge one anda lot of people are afraid of
(18:57):
meditation because they say, oh,I can't meditate, my mind won't
shut up.
But it's not about telling yourmind be quiet, it's about
observing that.
That's separate than you.
That's my mind.
I'm watching, so my mind is atool that I'm using.
And if I stay too close to thatmind, it's like, you know,
staring too close at the TV,right, so you feel like you're
(19:17):
inside the TV.
But if you're able to just takea few deep breaths and say, hey
, I've noticed that my mind isracing, that doesn't mean I'm
racing and I can separate myselffrom that and give yourself
some space from that.
And becoming the observer iswhat helps us kind of manage
that.
Over overthinking, over doing,over whatever, stress the
(19:41):
observing.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
We've never talked about meditation.
Do you teach meditation?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
as well.
I do not teach meditation, butI am a huge proponent and if you
ever want to do meditation,just get on the YouTube.
Okay, there are so many, thereare so many meditations and for
a lot of the patients I just say, hey, find somebody that you
like the sound of their voice,find somebody that is going to
talk you through something,cause a lot of times when we're
(20:05):
starting to flex that muscle ofthe observer versus the mind, we
need somebody to keep our mindbusy.
So if you do a guidedmeditation, you can listen to.
You know somebody saying, hey,relax your shoulders, you know,
calm your, relax your jaw, andso you have something that your
mind can focus on while you'refocusing on your breathing and
(20:26):
actually letting some of thisstuff go.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know a lot of the points you just mentioned were.
You know, I was listening toanother one of my favorite
podcasts, which is Mel Robbins,and she was talking about how
people can disrespect each otherand how to handle that.
So I do feel that in my line ofwork, where people do get very
riled up, is disrespect right Ifthey're at a board meeting and
(20:51):
they can't be heard orsomebody's using profanity,
people are talking over eachother.
Immediately, it's that I'mbeing disrespected, the tension
rises and you know we're off tothe races from there.
One of her key points wasprotect your energy and what are
we talking about?
And so it's like some thingsyou have to just let it go.
(21:15):
It's not worth expending agreat deal of energy on.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
A hundred percent I would, because you know our
energy is our only commodity,right?
Like if you don't have yourhealth, you have nothing.
That kind of thing, you know.
And a lot of times like, like Isaid, overthinking that will
spend your energy, that willmake you cheat efficient.
But also I read something thatsaid you're either coming from a
place of fear or love.
So I think that a lot of times,when people are, you know,
(21:40):
getting riled up like that it's,it's a fear, like you know, is
it going to be okay, am I safe?
That kind of dialogue so beingable to have that quiet time
where you're meditating andyou're telling yourself, even
affirmations are good too.
Hey, I am safe, I am loved, Iam okay, you know cause a lot of
times the dialogue is, you know, is it going to be okay, is
(22:02):
everything okay?
I'm afraid you know that kindof thing.
So shifting that dialogue alsokind of turns off all of those
warning signals that arehappening within the brain that
make us feel unsafe.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Ultimately, there are people that you're.
You're one of them.
I'm just going to say whereyou're around them and you just
feel better because they havegreat energy.
Yeah, you are, absolutely havethat effect.
Let me ask you, Dr Tai does chi, or energy, does it have to
naturally be depleted the olderyou get?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So there is a practice in Chinese medicine
called qigong.
That's also a great one,especially for older folks who
are not able to do more vigorousworkouts and things like that,
and it's a practice.
I'm not I'm not proficient init.
My friend, Dr Walker, isfantastic with it.
If you ever want his phonenumber, I'm happy to share it.
(22:52):
But it's a way of harnessingthat energy and really focusing
it and being aware of it.
Because you know, once you putyour attention on something,
then you, you notice it more.
You know, it's like I've I'vebeen obsessed with getting a
white Volvo, so I see themeverywhere.
I it more.
You know, it's like I've I'vebeen obsessed with getting a
white Volvo, so I see themeverywhere.
(23:12):
I'm like, oh, there's my Volvo,there's my Volvo, so that's the
thing.
So if you're focusing on yourchi, then you feel it more.
And I mean, there are somepeople you are actually one of
those people where I'm like,you're, how old.
That can't be Right, Because Ithink that that, that, that
energy, that life force, is verystrong within you.
You know, and that is the chi,is what's nourishing your skin,
your vibrancy, making you soincredibly beautiful.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Oh well, that is very nice, it's very nice of you to
say but so we can protect.
It's not just look at some timewe're all going to run out of
chi, right?
It's just, it's the cycle oflife, but it doesn't need to be
such a steep drop off, if I'mhearing you correctly.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Absolutely so.
I actually somehow by default,ended up specializing in
geriatrics.
I just so happened to resonatewith the older community and my
oldest patient is now 92 yearsold and he is fully cognitively
functioning 92 years old.
He walks into the office, he'sgot a great sense of humor, he
(24:10):
is on it and popping.
So I don't think that 92 has tolook decrepit and invalid.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah that's encouraging.
My mom is 92.
My dad is going to be 96.
They're stubborn and they'regoing, but they don't have the
vibrancy that you're talkingabout.
I would love to have themembrace something like
acupuncture, because my dad's ina lot of pain, he's in constant
pain, but again, he's the typeof person he's never going to do
(24:41):
that.
So are there other modalitiespeople can use, other than if
they just can't do acupuncture?
What else would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Massage, qigong, meditation, all of those things
help us kind of turn off thatpanic that happens in our brain,
even with pain.
We start to panic, right, whatis this thing?
Is it going to be here forever?
Am I ever going to get better,you know?
So all of that feeds into thepain loop as well.
So I think that those threethings I mean there's
(25:15):
acupressure is an option Ifacupressure.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Let's talk about that .
And then because I think breathwork is easy because everybody
breathes right.
Meditation is even me and I'vebeen practicing meditation for
years and I'm still not good atit.
It's intimidating.
But breath work right, that'seasy, that's pretty accessible.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Well, one thing that people don't realize is, a lot
of times when you're breathing,we're breathing in our chest,
right, we're doing these shallowbreaths and that can contribute
to neck pain, shoulder pain,because everything is up here,
you know, and so just focusingyour breath and letting it go
down deeper into your stomach isjust just that mental shift can
(26:00):
, can help calm you.
So, yeah, everybody can dobreath work.
But look at a baby.
You know, watch a baby.
When it's sleeping, the bellyis going up and down, not the
shoulders.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
You know everything about the baby is is comfortable
unless they're screaming forright and unless they're hungry
or sleepy.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
there's always just a few mechanisms, though, but
that's that follows us throughlife too, Right.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, so you mentioned acupressure.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Talk to us about that , right?
Yeah, so you mentionedacupressure.
Talk to us about that.
So acupressure is just usingthe acupuncture points and
applying pressure as opposed toputting a needle in.
So any place that you arefeeling pain, just applying
pressure to that area can helprelieve the pain.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So busy professional I'm sitting at my desk later.
Are there certain places whereI can be applying pressure
that's going to affect maybe mydigestion or my you know
different organs?
Are there different pressurepoints that somebody sitting in
an office can apply tothemselves?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yes, you know, the one that would encompass
everything would be to justmassage your ear Because, like I
said, it's a microcosm of yourwhole body.
So if you're massaging your ear, you're basically working on
your everything your internal,external, mental, emotional.
Yeah, massage your ear, it'seasy, nobody will notice.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I do that.
I actually love to have my earsmassaged.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah yeah, people think you're just flirting with
them.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
All right, that is a really good takeaway.
We've been talking.
I know a lot of people talkabout pain relief, physical pain
relief, when they're thinkingabout acupuncture.
Can it also help mental pain?
Somebody's sad, somebody'sdepressed?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
somebody's afraid.
Yeah, so again, it's holistic.
So even when we're working onyour physical pain, we're also
working on the mental, emotional, we're also working on the
external stressors, those kindsof things, because it's not just
this one-sided issue that youhave right.
So even pain in differentlocations of your body can
indicate different thoughts andbeliefs that you have.
(28:06):
Like, lower back pain has to dowith feeling unsupported.
So I like to tell people youknow, a lot of times with that
lower back pain, the callscoming from inside the building,
so it's not necessarily thatyour spouse is not supporting
you or you know your family isnot, or your friends.
It's more about your internaldialogue and saying like I have
to do everything myself.
(28:27):
You know that's usually themechanism behind it mentally,
emotionally, with the shouldersthe left shoulder is repressed,
grief, the right shoulder isrepressed anger.
You know, anything from theknees down has to do with not
being able to move forward.
Anything with your neck is likenot wanting to see your
surroundings.
So even when you're telling mehey, I just got, I slept.
(28:48):
Funny, it's my neck.
It's like uh-huh, uh-huh.
What else is going on?
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
What about addiction issues?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Absolutely Uh-huh.
Yep, there's two.
There's two protocols.
There's one called thebattlefield and the other one
called NADA.
Those are two that help withwell.
The NADA in particular helpswith addiction.
Battlefield helps more withlike a PTSD.
You know we use that a lot onveterans, but the NADA protocol
is five points in the air thathave been proven to be effective
(29:18):
on treating addiction.
I do have one of my bestfriends, dr Tahina.
You might've met her before,but she worked in a clinic, a
drug rehab clinic, doing theNADA protocol.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Well, I wanted to ask you.
You work with a nonprofit thatsupports veterans suffering from
PTSD.
Can you tell us about your workwith that organization?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Well, currently I work with Eastern Acupuncture
and Wellness Dr Jennifer Cruz,but in 2020, she came to us and
said hey, I want to start anonprofit.
Covid is running rampant andyou know the stress and anxiety
is through the roof.
And we said, okay, great, thatsounds awesome.
How are we going to keepourselves safe?
But sure, let's figure it out.
So we rented a space and wewere able to fit 10 chairs you
(30:04):
know, spacing them apart, wewere wearing our masks, we did
all the things we needed to doand it really took off and it's
still.
It's still thriving, which Ithink is just so amazing.
So what we do is we offercommunity acupuncturists
community style acupuncture, andthat way it's affordable.
There's a lot of people whodon't have insurance and it
(30:25):
would be considered a luxury forthem to get acupuncture.
So we said, hey, how do we makeit accessible to everybody?
So we do it in a, in a groupsetting.
Um, currently, I take up tofive patients at a time.
Um, and for our veterans anyveteran that we have they they
go through the VA so they'reable to see us at Eastern
acupuncture, which is ourfor-profit, and they get a
(30:48):
certain amount of treatments.
But once their treatments runout and they're waiting for
another series.
They're more than welcome tojoin me in community acupuncture
pro bono.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
And I have participated in your community
acupuncture.
I paid and I was let me tellour listeners.
So you're in a room, you're ina comfortable lawn chair, dr Tai
comes over, she does her thing,puts her needles in, turns out
the lights.
It's very nice and it is justyeah, it's just really peaceful
(31:17):
and it's amazing.
That is one of the things thatmade me such a fan of you and
Eastern acupuncture is becauseyou were doing this as a
community service for vets and Iassume that there's a lot of
scientific data on how it doeshelp vets with PTSD.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Absolutely it does.
Again, it goes back to how isit working in the body?
It's putting you back intoparasympathetic.
So you know, if anybody's insympathetic it's somebody who's
been in a war zone, you know.
So that fight or flight isreally hard to turn off, you
know.
And even the mind chatter andam I safe?
Can you imagine?
So yes, it's very effective.
(31:55):
I have some of my veterans aremy absolute favorite people.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Okay.
So, dr Tai, is there anythingelse that you want to leave our
listeners with when it comes toacupuncture?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yes, try it.
Just give it a try.
It's not going to hurt you,especially if you come to me.
I'm very gentle, but give it atry, see if it's something that
resonates with you.
You never know until you try.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Love that, and I was going to echo those sentiments
as well, to say that, look, thestress that comes with community
living it's not going anywhere,it's going to be here.
Stress that comes withcommunity living it's not going
anywhere, it's going to be here.
So why not try a modality thatmight help you cope with?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
it.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
A little better at least, dr Tai where can people
find you.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Oh, I'm at Eastern Acupuncture and Wellness in
Plantation Florida and I also dothe AcuMontres community style
acupuncture there.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
You may be seeing me latertoday due to my traffic-related
stress this morning, but Ireally want to thank you for
coming on.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
It was such a pleasure, donna, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to follow and rateus on your favorite podcast
platform, or visitTakeItToTheBoardcom for more
ways to connect.
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