Documenting the condition of your association property has become crucial to comply with new legal requirements as well as to maximize your insurance claims post casualty. Transparency, accessibility, and digital organization also play the critical role of helping to protect resident safety.
Digital documentation pioneer Trish Mackie-Smith joins host Donna DiMaggio-Berger for this episode of Take It To The Board to discuss how technological solutions are revolutionizing the way associations store and access their most important maintenance and repair records. After witnessing buyers making uninformed decisions due to lack of transparency, Trish co-founded Inndox to create a comprehensive digital repository that tracks building maintenance, warranties, and safety inspections throughout a building's lifecycle.
Donna and Trish explore why independent document storage creates essential continuity for associations and assists management companies when they onboard new clients. This independent storage portal helps associations maintain compliance with increasingly strict legislative requirements while ensuring critical information isn't lost during transitions.
Beyond simple document storage, Donna and Trish explore how modern systems can alert boards to upcoming inspection deadlines, insurance renewals, and warranty expirations—transforming static paperwork into dynamic tools for proactive management. Perhaps most fascinating is the emergence of structural monitoring technologies that use accelerometers to detect building movement, potentially preventing tragedies like Champlain Towers by identifying structural issues before they become catastrophic.
Whether you're a board member struggling with disorganized records, an association manager seeking better technology, or an owner concerned about building safety, this episode offers practical guidance for bringing your association's documentation into the digital age. The message is clear: well-maintained digital records aren't just good governance—they're essential to protecting lives and property values.
Conversation Highlights Include:
• The many benefits of converting paper records to digital formats
• How digital document repositories can help prove maintenance history to local Code Enforcement and support insurance claims post casualty
• The importance of maintaining organized records to comply with increasingly strict legislative requirements
• New technologies including structural monitoring systems that can detect building movement before failures occur
• Practical implementation strategies including forming "scanning committees" to digitize historical documents
• How proper documentation can strengthen a building's value and potentially reduce insurance premiums
• Key documents that every condo or HOA should maintain digitally
• How to address concerns from board members or managers who may not be tech-savvy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Berger,
and this is Take it to the Board, where we speak condo and HOA.
How you store and maintain yourassociation's books and records
has never been more important.
An organized and effectivedocument storage system is
needed to support the veracityof any damage claims your board
(00:22):
may submit to your insurancecompany, to prove your
compliance with governmentalsafety requirements and to
respond to owners' legal rightsto inspect these books and
records.
Today on Take it to the Board,we're talking about property
documentation and disclosurewith a true innovator in the
field, trish Mackey-Smith, aformer property lawyer and
co-founder, along with herhusband, andrew, of Indox, an
(00:45):
Australian company that has beenat the forefront of
revolutionizing how criticalproperty information is stored,
accessed and shared.
In an era where transparencyand due diligence are more
important than ever, especiallyfor community associations, her
work is helping property owners,buyers and managers make better
informed decisions.
(01:05):
We'll explore how technology isreshaping the way associations
handle documentation, thechallenges of outdated record
keeping and why having instantaccess to key documents is
essential for both complianceand risk management.
So let's get into it, trish.
Welcome to Take it to the Board.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you, Donna.
Very happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So I have to ask what inspired you and your husband,
andrew, to create INDAX?
I mean, what problems, trish,were you both aiming to solve in
the real estate and communityassociation sectors?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, so it started because in my previous life as a
property lawyer and then abuilding consultant with my
husband that we co-founded abuilding consultancy, we saw
over and over the same problemsoccurring, and it was all to do
with trying to access importantinformation about the property
(02:00):
at the time of transaction andfinding that really stressful.
There was a lack oftransparency, and I even saw
that buyers were going aheadspending their life savings on
unsafe properties totallyunaware of the risks, and making
decisions that really wereuninformed decisions because
(02:23):
they didn't know the truecondition about their properties
.
So I thought there's got to bea better way than the current
system.
If we could only digitize allthe information, have it
centralized and easilyaccessible to all the
stakeholders, then this willcreate more transparency so
(02:45):
people can make informeddecisions and buy properties
knowing the true value of theproperty as well.
So then I looked to technologyand that's how we came about to
create Indox.
It's a digital propertyinformation system that tracks
all the maintenance warranties,safety checks for the entire
(03:08):
life of the building.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
This has been something we've talked about a
lot over the last four seasonson the podcast Trish, which is a
lot of potential purchasers tolook at the unit, to look at the
view.
I don't know how much they diginto those details you're
mentioning which are so crucialto making an informed purchase
decision.
I mean, do you think and haveyou found that if you make this
(03:34):
information available to them,they actually read it?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Good question.
Yes, nowadays, I think, buyersare far more sophisticated.
They want to know a bit morethan they used to.
There's more seller disclosurerequirements happening around
the world and, yes, they'reasking more questions.
So I am finding that buyers areneeding and wanting, expecting
(04:04):
to be able to access thisinformation.
I mean, everybody nowadays usestheir phone and they want to be
able to find the answer toquestions on their phone.
So why can't it happen toproperties their biggest
purchase of their life?
I thought it should havehappened years ago, many years
ago.
Because buyers are getting moresophisticated, more tech savvy,
(04:27):
they are benefiting from thedigitization of records.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You know, it's not just the buyers either, trish,
it's the people who actuallyhave been living there, maybe
for many years, okay that wantto stay informed about the
changes in the building overtime, which happens.
I mean, you're in Australia,which you just mentioned to me,
that you had a cyclone.
I guess that's our version of ahurricane.
I'm coming to you from SouthFlorida, another geographically
(04:54):
vulnerable area.
Buildings change, properties,undergo various challenges,
whether it's just normal wearand tear or impacts from
construction next door, orimpacts from casualty events,
weather events, things like that.
So, to your point, it's yes,for the new purchasers, it's
helping them make a moreinformed decision, but for the
(05:16):
people living in the building, Iimagine they want to stay up to
date on what's going on withthe health of the building.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Oh exactly.
What's going on with the healthof the building?
Oh, exactly, and of course,they need to know in order to
ensure that their buildingdoesn't deteriorate to such an
extent that they've got majorexpenses.
And this is where the condolaws have come in to ensure that
the owners, the board membersdoing the right thing to
(05:45):
maintain their building, knowthe status of the building and
what repairs are required andacting on them.
And this is where our platformcomes in to monitor that and
ensure that the buildings aresafe and also compliant.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So it's a little bit different.
Obviously, having a properdocument management system for a
high-rise is going to becritical For a homeowners
association with single-familyhomes, where you've got the
owners responsible for basicallyeverything pertaining to that
house the roof, the residentialenvelope all of that it's not
going to be as critical I wouldassume, unless you're also
(06:24):
talking about a highlyamenitized homeowners
association with a clubhouse andother types of amenities.
Would you agree?
Yes?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I do agree there's more involved.
It's more complex for ahigh-rise building as opposed to
a single-story home.
Definitely, though, we findthat homeowners enjoying the
benefits of having all theirrecords in one place, including
insurance documents or thephotos of the insured goods are
(06:55):
there, the policy for theirinsurance, or the contacts of
people who have worked on thehome, their gardener, their
handyman, having those regularmaintenance alerts coming in,
all the warranties for theproperty.
So it still does make sense tohave all these records in place
for a single-story home, justlike a multi-story building.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You're talking about that and it's taking me back to
the introduction, where Imentioned having all that
documentation to support aninsurance claim.
And you're right, it pertainsto single family homeowners as
well to make sure that they canprove that they've maintained
the roof in their home.
Because what insurancecompanies typically do when you
present them with a claim, theyhave two favorite refrains which
(07:43):
is pre-existing damage orfailure to maintain.
So, having all thatdocumentation, the maintenance
records over the years, wealways tell clients when we're
heading into storm season, takedate stamped video and date
stamped pictures of yourproperty so you can prove what
(08:03):
it looked like before you headinto storm season.
I think it's a really, reallygreat point.
A lot of these properties about50%, maybe a little bit more
now with all the stringent newlaws in Florida they're
professionally managed Trish.
So what makes your system,indox, different than what the
management companies are alreadydoing in terms of document
(08:25):
storage or what the associationswho are self-managed are trying
to do?
What makes you guys different,if you can kind of explain the
system and what you do?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, sure.
So of course property managershave their own way of doing
things, they have their ownsystems, but really they're
self-serving.
They don't operate for theongoing benefit of the board
long-term, because propertymanagers come and go and if the
(08:54):
property manager is no longerlooking after that building,
often the records are lost.
They're not handed over to theboard and then, with the new
property managers coming on orthe new board members coming on,
that information, that criticalinformation, is gone.
(09:14):
So this is where I think theintention of the condo laws and
you can help me with this, donna, because you're the expert here
I think the intention is forbuildings to be well-maintained
(09:35):
for the entire life cycle.
So that means that there needsto be a repository that
continues way after the propertymanagers and board members have
done their term, so thatthere's continuity.
And this is where INDOX isdifferent.
It's separate to the softwarethat a property manager might
use.
We train the property managerto be able to keep those records
(09:59):
updated on behalf of the boardmembers.
So it's all very easy,user-friendly and it enables the
access by all any stakeholders,although we do have the privacy
management in place as well toensure that certain records are
(10:20):
protected and you can enablepermissions with our system, but
having a repository thatcontinues long-term, with all
those inspectors, professionalswho've looked after the building
in the past.
They're all there, accessibleat any time you need them, and
all those records are there andall the ongoing maintenance.
(10:43):
I did come across a survey thatwas done by the Community
Association Institute and I wasstunned that there's only about
35% of boards that actually havea maintenance plan in place.
So INDOCS enables this and it'svery important.
(11:06):
Especially now with climatechange, the new legislation,
there's new obligations placedon these boards and if they
don't do this, if they don'tmaintain and control a
repository, then they're exposedand you would know about the
risk of this.
(11:27):
It's a fiduciary duty now?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, the risks are, if I'm hearing you correctly,
Trish, what you're reallytalking about is something that
we've espoused for years withour clients, which is
independence.
A lot of times, vendors willcome along to volunteer boards
and what are they offering?
They're offering ease ofoperations.
We're going to do this for you.
You don't have to worry aboutit.
(11:51):
Just go live your life andwe'll take care of it.
Here's the problem.
The buck stops with the board.
These other people are youragents.
So the sticky factor is we'lltake care of your document
storage, we'll take care of yourdocument storage, we'll take
care of your website.
But if you part ways and youare left in the lurch, that
becomes a huge problem.
(12:12):
So that is where an independentwebsite, an independent
document storage portal, all ofthat becomes terribly critical,
because sometimes you don't knowhow long you're going to be
between professional management.
You don't know if what youthought you could fill in a week
might take a few months.
So that independent componentis really, really important,
(12:35):
because it does help youcontinue to comply with the law,
regardless if you're in themidst of a transition.
You mentioned your system.
I assume you limit the numberof people in an association who
have access to the documentstorage.
Is that how it's set up?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yes, that's right.
So the board members have theability to access and they have
control, total control, and thenthey can enable the property,
the current property manager, tohave access in order to keep it
updated.
But if that property managerfinishes their term, then the
(13:15):
board removes that access aswell.
So it's entirely controlled bythe board members, but updated
by the property managers.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I have had a couple episodes Trish on the podcast
talking about mental healthchallenges in associations.
And bear with me because thereis a tie-in to this episode.
What if we have somebody let'ssay it's the manager or board
member that decides they want togo in and destroy some
documents, make it a littledifficult for the association.
(13:47):
How would you handle that?
What kind of backstops do youhave?
And, by the way, in the stateof Florida that is a crime If
somebody is going in anddestroying documents,
particularly if they're doingsomething to cover up a crime.
So how do you back up or whatkind of backstops do you have in
place if there was somebody whohad access to the document
storage and was intent on doingsomething bad?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Oh, yes, absolutely.
We have backups and, with ourtech team, they would be able to
access the information.
We've got a record, you know.
We can trace everything that'shappened in the past so we can
ensure that we can reinstate theinformation.
So there would be no issuethere, as long as we're told as
(14:32):
soon as possible that, yeah,there's been, you know, some
breach, some breach, yes, that'sright.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I have to tell you I think that is one of the key
points that I want our listenersto take away because we are
seeing an uptick in fraud,believe it or not, Just as the
legislative consequences havegotten more serious, we're
seeing some uptake in fraud.
I don't know how it keepshappening if people just don't
think they're going to getcaught.
(14:59):
And it's so much easier tocommit fraud when you're only
dealing with paper documentation.
It's so easy for a piece ofpaper to be tossed out or burned
up or otherwise destroyed orremoved, as opposed to digital
documents that carry a footprintcorrect.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Absolutely.
This is why I thought we shouldhave everything digitized and I
don't understand why it hasn'thappened earlier, you know, and
that's why I was so motivated todo something.
I thought, why?
Why hasn't anyone else donethis?
But then I soon realized howdifficult it is to get people on
(15:38):
board.
Initially because it's dauntingto think, oh gosh, I've got to
go and find all the old plansand where are they and where to
start.
So it's been a challenge.
But once you've got all thoserecords digitized, oh wow, it
makes such a difference toeverything.
It's far more efficient,convenient.
(16:00):
People have confidence and thevalue course of the of the
property would definitely be.
It would improve if you canshow instantly okay, we've,
we've got this property wellmaintained, we know where the
warranties are at, when theinspections are due, we've got
all the budgets in place for thereserve studies, everything
(16:22):
Everything's there.
And also it could even reduceinsurance premiums if you can
prove to insurers that thisproperty is well-maintained and
compliant.
So there's so many benefits todigitizing.
I'm sure there are othersaround the globe, but I'm so
glad that I've started doingthis and to help others so that
(16:47):
they're very well informed abouttheir property, so that they do
stay safe.
We don't want tragedies likewhat happened in South Miami,
and that's another motivationfor doing this.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
There's obviously a need.
I mean, the Florida legislaturehas, over the last couple
sessions since the Surfsidetragedy, they have said they
have obviously passed veryrobust engineering and reserve
funding mandates, but inaddition, they have said you
need to keep your documents inan organized fashion.
Trish, we never saw that before.
(17:19):
That leads me to believe that alot of legislators were
contacted by owners and who toldthem it's like a junk drawer.
I go in and there's stuff justyou know, bulging piles of paper
everywhere.
I can't find what I'm lookingfor.
So the law was changed inFlorida to say, yes, you must
maintain your documents in anorganized fashion.
(17:39):
It also the law was changed toimpose very strict penalties,
including possible criminalpenalties, if you fail to
produce documentation.
So we know there's been a needfor this.
The law was also changed to saythat an association can upload
all these documents to a websiteand provide them digitally.
(18:00):
So they're definitely theFlorida legislature is
definitely sending a very strongsignal to associations that
there's a better way to do this.
And I tell my clients as welllook, extricate yourself from
the document inspection processto the extent that you can,
because that's where we findmany of the complaints to the
(18:24):
state they come about becausesomebody has said that they
asked for certain documents andthey didn't get them.
And I'm going to loop this allthe way back to our other
conversation, which was look, ifyou have an angry homeowner and
they've asked for certaindocuments, they really don't
care that.
Your response is that the priormanager or management company
(18:46):
failed to turn over thosedocuments or they lost them To
that angry homeowner.
That's completely irrelevantinformation.
You're required as a board tohave this.
The association doesn't have it.
That homeowner is going to thestate and filing a complaint.
In other jurisdictions they maygo straight, they may file a
lawsuit.
In other jurisdictions, theymay go straight, they may file a
lawsuit.
So you know this kind of comesfull circle as to why is there
(19:11):
such a disconnect when it comesto digitizing these documents?
I assume you've dealt withpeople and you've seen how
daunting it is.
Are there steps that can betaken to make it less daunting?
Do you send out a team with aportable scanner to start
digitizing all their documents?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
We assist, we give guidance as to what sort of
documents they should becollating and digitizing, and we
do have services we canorganize to go into these
buildings and scan them ifthat's necessary.
So we onboard the board member.
(19:49):
There's usually one boardmember that will be nominated to
liaise with us, but I do stressthat it's important to get
professional assistance as faras what sort of documents they
should be digitising, like youknow from their structural
(20:15):
engineers that they've used inthe past and their attorneys Get
professional advice as to whatshould be going onto the system.
We're not, even though I'mlegally trained that is not my
role in this case.
We can give guidance, but Irecommend that the boards get
(20:37):
the professional advice in theirown jurisdiction as to what
information should be put on thesystem so that they're
compliant.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
A lot of things today are digital to begin with.
So the engineering, thestructural integrity reserve
study, all of that is beingtransmitted by email and PDF.
So I assume, trish, they couldjust take that PDF and upload it
.
Right, the engineering reports,absolutely, send it over to you
.
For all the other stuff thatthey haven't done over the years
.
Let's say, and you'reabsolutely right, every
(21:07):
jurisdiction, every state isdifferent.
But speak to associationcouncil, figure out how far back
you have to go in terms ofdocument storage, what should
and should not be uploaded.
But let's say we've got.
Like six years ago we got areport but it wasn't sent by
email.
I always suggest you knoweverybody has these committees.
(21:27):
What about a scanning committee?
Why not get some of thevolunteers in your community?
If you don't want to pay tohave a company come in and scan,
could we just use a scanningcommittee to scan some of these
old documents?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
That's a great idea.
I like that one.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Put people to work, why not?
We'll give them something to do.
You could give them some time.
I've never heard of a scanningcommittee.
I have heard of every type ofcommittee except a scanning
committee, and I keep saying itthis is the wave of the future.
Digitalization has so manybenefits in terms of extricating
yourselves from the process,which is always an unhappy
(22:06):
process.
Right, if everything's up thereand accessible, you don't leave
room for an owner to claim thatthe association is being less
than transparent, is hidingdocuments, is trying to be
hurtful.
It's all there.
It saves you time, it saves youmoney.
It might make Trish, it mightmake my phone ring less,
(22:28):
actually, because that's a lotof the calls I field are about
botched document inspectionrequests.
But nevertheless, I think itneeds to be the future when it
comes to maintaining thesedocuments, and I'm wondering I
don't know if you've ever talkedto any insurance experts Are
any of them insisting that thesemaintenance records be
(22:49):
maintained this way?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
They should be.
It would make their job easieras well.
So that's where I'm hopingthings will progress to that it
just becomes standard practicethat you digitize all the
(23:10):
information, and yeah, thatwould be great.
It would make everybody's lifeeasier.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
This is not an all or nothing proposition, right?
So if somebody came to you andthey said we're going to start
this process, but let's say theyonly have 20% of their
documents digitized, it's not.
Indox isn't saying you have togive us everything or nothing,
Correct?
Have you seen associationsbuild up their digital footprint
(23:39):
over time?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yes, yes, that's exactly how it works.
You can keep on adding, keepupdating, and that's what we're
about.
It's evolving and, yeah, so youcan go back as far as you wish,
or you can just start from acertain date, but over time,
(24:00):
yeah, you just continue toupdate and make it better and
better and better.
So it's not just a repository,it's not static.
We do more than that.
So it's dynamic and the boardmembers are alerted when
inspection reports are due, whenthere's insurance renewals due,
(24:27):
when warranties are about toexpire.
There can be videos on how tooperate the security system or
emergency evacuations, thingslike that.
So it is a dynamic system.
It's not just having therecords there.
It's evolving and right nowwe're looking at implementing AI
(24:49):
into the system so you canactually eventually just talk to
the system and it will talkback saying, yes, okay, we have
this inspection coming up nextweek, it's booked in, so this is
where it's going.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
That does sound exciting.
So how much does all this cost?
What's your pricing model?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
So the base model is 400 a month to subscribe and
that's for up to 10 units.
So if you have more than that,there's additional costs.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
You mean 10 condo units 10 condo units.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, that's for the multifamily Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
But then okay, what if I have a 400-unit hire rise?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, so then it just goes up incrementally.
So, yeah, we make sure thatit's very reasonable considering
, you know, the management ofthe risk that's at stake.
So, yes, it's all there on ourwebsite so you can look at our
pricing.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Let me ask you, though, because there's a
difference between monitoringthe units and monitoring, let's
say, the common elements thebuilding envelope and the roof,
the electrical and plumbing.
In the common elements, Do youdifferentiate between the units
and the building'sresponsibility for common
elements?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yes, yes, that is possible, so that each
individual unit owner can haveall their information stored and
updated and it's up to them.
They have control of thatdocumentation and it, you know,
they can share that with withthe board and vice versa.
(26:37):
So all the information is thereand it's multi-layered.
So if, if you want to find outhow we do all of that, it is
very easy, user-friendly.
I can take you through wouldtake 20 minutes to show you how
easy it is to be able to manage.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
It sounds like there's options, because for
some associations they're notgoing to offer that to owners to
keep their own data.
That may be down the road, butthe association's interested in
the data they need to support,let's say, an insurance claim
under the association's masterpolicy.
Although I do see the utilityof also having the units
(27:19):
monitored, because one of thebig issues we have in Florida is
who's responsible for what inthe aftermath of a water leak
right, water has gotten into theunit.
Now there's mold, who'sresponsible for what?
So I can see the utility of theowners staying on top of their
own maintenance as well.
That's a huge challenge we havein our multifamily buildings is,
(27:42):
sometimes we have owners whojust think they don't insure the
interiors of their units.
Maybe they'reiors of theirunits, Maybe they're not
maintaining their appliances.
They're not terribly organized.
This can also be true forowners that are investor owners
and in those units they've gotrenters who may not be
communicating on maintenanceissues that crop up with the
investor owner.
(28:03):
So I can see the utility acrossthe board.
Now what if somebody wants toleave you?
We talked about leaving amanagement company.
Well, okay, I've signed up, nowI want to leave you.
So does the associationmaintain access to all of the
documentation.
How do you get it back to them?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, well, that's a good question.
So if they do wish to leave outour service, then we would
actually ensure that weunderstand why and we would give
the board 30 days to retrieveall the records from our system,
or they can do a bulk downloadso they would still have access
(28:46):
to all those records, and then,though, it wouldn't be
structured so it would just bean information.
That is not easy then to beable to understand where
everything's at.
So, oh, yes, they can certainly.
If they do leave our system,they would be able to access and
(29:06):
retrieve all the records, andthen it's up to them what they
do.
So it just won't be thestructured way for their
maintenance and repair logs andwarranty alerts and all the past
historical records withdifferent contractors and so
forth that would be lost.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Who's your oldest client?
What's the longest you've had aclient?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
The longest, oh gosh, six years, because we started
six years ago.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well, that's good news.
That's good.
And the growth?
Have you seen exponentialgrowth?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yes, well, especially in America, and this is because
you're ahead of us, you see,and I think because of the
Champlain Towers, that tragedythat forced, I guess,
governments to bring in safetylegislation, and I was actually
contacted by a structuralengineer in New York actually
(30:09):
contacted by a structuralengineer in New York because
they were looking for a way tocontinue the inspection reports
and what they'd done ondifferent buildings, and they
had been searching for a systemto do that and couldn't find one
.
And they looked all over theworld and then, yeah, they came
to me and asked if I'd be ableto assist them.
So that's how we got into theUSA and, yeah, it's taken off
(30:34):
ever since.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I would think that it would be equally important for
building departments to haveorganized digital storage on all
the engineering reports theyreceive.
Has anybody have you dug intothat, trish?
Maybe that's a new potentialbusiness idea for you.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Oh, yes, yes, I've thought about that.
Look, there's so many benefitsto the industry and different
organizations in the industry.
So, you know, for real estateagents, we help them.
We also help propertydevelopers, because now they've
got a handover, all theinformation, there's a lot more
(31:13):
information for consumerprotection as well.
There's yeah, there's a lot ofbenefits to the industry as a
whole.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
So, yeah, the reason I asked that question is because
before the Champlain Towerstragedy, there were only two out
of 67 Florida counties thatrequired engineering inspections
for older buildings, and thatwas Miami-Dade and Broward
County, and, as you know,Champlain Towers South was
located in Miami-Dade.
What was surprising is thatthere were numerous examples of
(31:47):
older buildings never being told, never being followed up with
by local government in those twocounties that they needed to
have their 40-year certificationor their 50-year certification.
Now, I don't know if that wasjust because local government
was cash-strapped or distractedor they could benefit from a
more robust propertydocumentation storage system,
(32:10):
but you know there were numerousexamples where the local
building departments were not ontop of those reports.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Oh right, well, that's another reason why they
need a system like what weprovide.
So everyone knows the status ofthe building and what's
required as far as thestructural integrity of those
buildings.
And I guess, now that it'sclear, the responsibility does
lie with the owners, and it'svery onerous, and you need to
(32:43):
have a more structured system inplace.
There's no question.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Oh, I agree, I'm not sure.
I agree that the entire onusshould be on the owners.
I think that there really needsto be a collaboration with
government when it comes tohelping to keep buildings safe,
and I also think there's a hugeobligation on the part of the
people building these buildingsto make sure they're building
safe.
And I also think there's a hugeobligation on the part of the
people building these buildingsto make sure they're building
(33:09):
safe buildings from the startand they're delivering all the
documentation and themaintenance records they need to
get that building and thatcommunity off on the right foot.
I cannot tell you how manytimes, trish, when we're going
through transition fromdeveloper control, all of a
sudden warranties are missing.
When we're going throughtransition from developer
control, all of a suddenwarranties are missing.
(33:30):
Maintenance records they don'texist.
You know you need to start offon the right foot, and doing so
means that the developers needto be terribly organized as well
and they need to be forced andmade to deliver all of the
documentation so that newlytransitioned board has all the
information they need to have inthe event that they suffer a
casualty loss, and also how theymap out ongoing maintenance and
(33:54):
repairs.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Exactly, and we're there to provide a service for
the property developers andconstruction companies, provide
a very comprehensive way ofmanaging the property long term
and not just think they can walkaway.
(34:21):
So they do have aresponsibility too, and by using
Indox, if you know, the boardscan specify that's what I want
all the information in adigitized form, and if buyers
also ask for that, then it'sgoing to be standard practice
(34:41):
and better for everybody, sothat, yeah, they're responsible
for their part and that's onlyfair.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
You tell boards who are intrigued by your service.
They know they need to dosomething different, but they're
afraid.
Or, as you said a few minutesago, the whole process just
seems so daunting.
What's a few of the things yousay to those folks to help them?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, I realized that boards can be disorganized and
some of the board members maynot have the capacity or the
ability.
Yeah, they're volunteers,aren't they?
So we come in and we meet withthem and hold their hand,
(35:31):
basically, and it's astep-by-step process so that
they feel confident in theprocess and then, when it's all
set up, they don't have to keepit up to date themselves.
We train the property managerto do that on their behalf, and
so they should.
So, yeah, we definitely,therefore, for the board members
(35:56):
to feel that they've gotsomeone holding their hand and
making it an easy process, aseasy as possible.
I mean, there will be somedocuments that could be
difficult to access or you'dhave to get them scanned, as we
spoke about, but it has beendone, it can be done and we're
(36:17):
there to help.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
And some of them are going to be self-managed, trish.
So I would think this is goingto be equally or even more
important for those boards thatdo not have a professional
management team, and they wouldbe looking for something like
this In that case, who are youtraining up?
You're going to train a boardmember, I assume, or a committee
member?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yes, usually a board member and there's usually one
who will put their hand up and,as I said before, it is very
easy.
It's intuitive software.
So it's really, once you've hada look at it, once you've had
the demonstration, and alsothere's videos within our system
(36:59):
to take you through differentthings, that some of our
features and how to do it, incase you forget, or yeah, so
it's very easy to manage, as yousaid, the self-managed
properties.
This is perfect for them.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
So you mentioned AI as one of the exciting new
features.
Anything else on the horizon interms of property documentation
, storage?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Augmented reality is another one that we've been
looking at to have the buildingscanned and have a 3D image of
the property.
So we're looking at partneringwith another business that does
that.
And, yeah, there's an evenblockchain as well, because
banks and insurers they willwant to know that this data is
(37:50):
immutable, it can't be corrupted, and, with blockchain, that
will bring more trust for banksand insurers.
So we're also looking at thattechnology, but at the moment
it's working brilliantlycompared to paper.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Go back to the augmented reality.
So, for instance, I don't knowif you read the report the media
report a couple months backabout a series of luxury high
rises in Miami-Dade that aresinking slowly, but it was about
subsidence.
How would what you just saidaddress that?
(38:29):
Is that the augmented reality?
Is that possibly a measurementtool on certain metrics in the
building?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Oh look, it's helpful .
Also, there's other technology.
We've partnered with structuralengineers that are based in New
Jersey and they've come up witha technology that is actually
supported by the Floridaauthorities in a way that this
(38:57):
technology can monitor the wholestructure with accelerometers.
They're called and they'replaced on the building and
within a 24-hour period it canmonitor the integrity of the
building and pinpoint all theweak areas and then they can
come up with a plan of action.
(39:18):
So this is a technology thatwe're embracing as well,
especially for those buildingsthat might have some subsidence
or cracking.
Then these engineers can comein and do this monitoring.
So, yeah, there's a lot of newtechnologies out there that can
come into play and really helpwith the confidence aspect of
(39:44):
the safety of the building.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Well, that's fascinating because, if I'm
hearing you correctly, thatsounds like an alarm system that
if Champlain Towers had hadthat in place at some point,
that alarm system would havealerted people that that
building was failing.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That's exactly right.
So they know there's even atiniest, tiniest movement of the
building will trigger an alert,and then engineers will go out
there and then they'll bedetermining what measures need
to be taken in order to preventa disaster.
So this is exactly what we needto do, because there's so many
(40:24):
old buildings now, and buildingsaren't meant to last forever
they're not built that way and Iread that there's two-thirds of
buildings in condos in Miami orin Florida sorry are over 30
years old.
So we do have to be aware ofthis and put measures in place.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
And you don't need a building to completely collapse
or partially collapse to have atragedy on your hands.
We've seen balconies collapse,we've seen docks collapse, so
it's not.
I know there are people thatthink that lightning doesn't
strike twice, but again, youdon't need a complete building
or partial building collapse tohave a loss of life and tragedy
(41:10):
and I think that we saved thebest for the last.
But that building alert systemis fascinating to me because you
know if it does what you'resaying it does, it could alert
people that there's somethinggoing wrong with the building,
in time to get it addressed andsave lives.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yes, that's right and that's why we've partnered with
them.
So for the older buildings thatcome onto our platform, we
encourage that they do at leasta baseline using this technology
, and it's not expensive, butit's so reassuring to have it
(41:49):
done.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
I agree.
Well, trish, thank you so muchfor your time.
Where can people find you?
And remember, trish is inAustralia, so if you call her
her, just keep that in mindthat's okay.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
We've got a team, so wherever wherever you are in the
world, we're here to help 24hours.
So don't worry about the time.
That's just where I am rightnow, but I'm often traveling and
over in the states in fact, I'mover there in a couple of weeks
time.
So but if you want to find outmore, have a chat to me or a
demo, just go to our website uhindex I double N D O Xcom and
(42:31):
just click on contact us andwe'll be in touch.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Thanks so much, my pleasure.
Contact us and we'll be intouch, trish.
Thanks so much, my pleasure.
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to follow and rateus on your favorite podcast
platform, or visitTakeItToTheBoardcom for more
ways to connect.
Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Berger,
and this is Take it to the Board, where we speak condo and HOA.
How you store and maintain yourassociation's books and records
has never been more important.
An organized and effectivedocument storage system is
needed to support the veracityof any damage claims your board
(00:22):
may submit to your insurancecompany, to prove your
compliance with governmentalsafety requirements and to
respond to owners' legal rightsto inspect these books and
records.
Today on Take it to the Board,we're talking about property
documentation and disclosurewith a true innovator in the
field, trish Mackey-Smith, aformer property lawyer and
co-founder, along with herhusband, andrew, of Indox, an
(00:45):
Australian company that has beenat the forefront of
revolutionizing how criticalproperty information is stored,
accessed and shared.
In an era where transparencyand due diligence are more
important than ever, especiallyfor community associations, her
work is helping property owners,buyers and managers make better
informed decisions.
(01:05):
We'll explore how technology isreshaping the way associations
handle documentation, thechallenges of outdated record
keeping and why having instantaccess to key documents is
essential for both complianceand risk management.
So let's get into it, trish.
Welcome to Take it to the Board.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you, Donna.
Very happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So I have to ask what inspired you and your husband,
andrew, to create INDAX?
I mean, what problems, trish,were you both aiming to solve in
the real estate and communityassociation sectors?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, so it started because in my previous life as a
property lawyer and then abuilding consultant with my
husband that we co-founded abuilding consultancy, we saw
over and over the same problemsoccurring, and it was all to do
with trying to access importantinformation about the property
(02:00):
at the time of transaction andfinding that really stressful.
There was a lack oftransparency, and I even saw
that buyers were going aheadspending their life savings on
unsafe properties totallyunaware of the risks, and making
decisions that really wereuninformed decisions because
(02:23):
they didn't know the truecondition about their properties
.
So I thought there's got to bea better way than the current
system.
If we could only digitize allthe information, have it
centralized and easilyaccessible to all the
stakeholders, then this willcreate more transparency so
(02:45):
people can make informeddecisions and buy properties
knowing the true value of theproperty as well.
So then I looked to technologyand that's how we came about to
create Indox.
It's a digital propertyinformation system that tracks
all the maintenance warranties,safety checks for the entire
(03:08):
life of the building.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
This has been something we've talked about a
lot over the last four seasonson the podcast Trish, which is a
lot of potential purchasers tolook at the unit, to look at the
view.
I don't know how much they diginto those details you're
mentioning which are so crucialto making an informed purchase
decision.
I mean, do you think and haveyou found that if you make this
(03:34):
information available to them,they actually read it?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Good question.
Yes, nowadays, I think, buyersare far more sophisticated.
They want to know a bit morethan they used to.
There's more seller disclosurerequirements happening around
the world and, yes, they'reasking more questions.
So I am finding that buyers areneeding and wanting, expecting
(04:04):
to be able to access thisinformation.
I mean, everybody nowadays usestheir phone and they want to be
able to find the answer toquestions on their phone.
So why can't it happen toproperties their biggest
purchase of their life?
I thought it should havehappened years ago, many years
ago.
Because buyers are getting moresophisticated, more tech savvy,
(04:27):
they are benefiting from thedigitization of records.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You know, it's not just the buyers either, trish,
it's the people who actuallyhave been living there, maybe
for many years, okay that wantto stay informed about the
changes in the building overtime, which happens.
I mean, you're in Australia,which you just mentioned to me,
that you had a cyclone.
I guess that's our version of ahurricane.
I'm coming to you from SouthFlorida, another geographically
(04:54):
vulnerable area.
Buildings change, properties,undergo various challenges,
whether it's just normal wearand tear or impacts from
construction next door, orimpacts from casualty events,
weather events, things like that.
So, to your point, it's yes,for the new purchasers, it's
helping them make a moreinformed decision, but for the
(05:16):
people living in the building, Iimagine they want to stay up to
date on what's going on withthe health of the building.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Oh exactly.
What's going on with the healthof the building?
Oh, exactly, and of course,they need to know in order to
ensure that their buildingdoesn't deteriorate to such an
extent that they've got majorexpenses.
And this is where the condolaws have come in to ensure that
the owners, the board membersdoing the right thing to
(05:45):
maintain their building, knowthe status of the building and
what repairs are required andacting on them.
And this is where our platformcomes in to monitor that and
ensure that the buildings aresafe and also compliant.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So it's a little bit different.
Obviously, having a properdocument management system for a
high-rise is going to becritical For a homeowners
association with single-familyhomes, where you've got the
owners responsible for basicallyeverything pertaining to that
house the roof, the residentialenvelope all of that it's not
going to be as critical I wouldassume, unless you're also
(06:24):
talking about a highlyamenitized homeowners
association with a clubhouse andother types of amenities.
Would you agree?
Yes?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I do agree there's more involved.
It's more complex for ahigh-rise building as opposed to
a single-story home.
Definitely, though, we findthat homeowners enjoying the
benefits of having all theirrecords in one place, including
insurance documents or thephotos of the insured goods are
(06:55):
there, the policy for theirinsurance, or the contacts of
people who have worked on thehome, their gardener, their
handyman, having those regularmaintenance alerts coming in,
all the warranties for theproperty.
So it still does make sense tohave all these records in place
for a single-story home, justlike a multi-story building.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You're talking about that and it's taking me back to
the introduction, where Imentioned having all that
documentation to support aninsurance claim.
And you're right, it pertainsto single family homeowners as
well to make sure that they canprove that they've maintained
the roof in their home.
Because what insurancecompanies typically do when you
present them with a claim, theyhave two favorite refrains which
(07:43):
is pre-existing damage orfailure to maintain.
So, having all thatdocumentation, the maintenance
records over the years, wealways tell clients when we're
heading into storm season, takedate stamped video and date
stamped pictures of yourproperty so you can prove what
(08:03):
it looked like before you headinto storm season.
I think it's a really, reallygreat point.
A lot of these properties about50%, maybe a little bit more
now with all the stringent newlaws in Florida they're
professionally managed Trish.
So what makes your system,indox, different than what the
management companies are alreadydoing in terms of document
(08:25):
storage or what the associationswho are self-managed are trying
to do?
What makes you guys different,if you can kind of explain the
system and what you do?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, sure.
So of course property managershave their own way of doing
things, they have their ownsystems, but really they're
self-serving.
They don't operate for theongoing benefit of the board
long-term, because propertymanagers come and go and if the
(08:54):
property manager is no longerlooking after that building,
often the records are lost.
They're not handed over to theboard and then, with the new
property managers coming on orthe new board members coming on,
that information, that criticalinformation, is gone.
(09:14):
So this is where I think theintention of the condo laws and
you can help me with this, donna, because you're the expert here
I think the intention is forbuildings to be well-maintained
(09:35):
for the entire life cycle.
So that means that there needsto be a repository that
continues way after the propertymanagers and board members have
done their term, so thatthere's continuity.
And this is where INDOX isdifferent.
It's separate to the softwarethat a property manager might
use.
We train the property managerto be able to keep those records
(09:59):
updated on behalf of the boardmembers.
So it's all very easy,user-friendly and it enables the
access by all any stakeholders,although we do have the privacy
management in place as well toensure that certain records are
(10:20):
protected and you can enablepermissions with our system, but
having a repository thatcontinues long-term, with all
those inspectors, professionalswho've looked after the building
in the past.
They're all there, accessibleat any time you need them, and
all those records are there andall the ongoing maintenance.
(10:43):
I did come across a survey thatwas done by the Community
Association Institute and I wasstunned that there's only about
35% of boards that actually havea maintenance plan in place.
So INDOCS enables this and it'svery important.
(11:06):
Especially now with climatechange, the new legislation,
there's new obligations placedon these boards and if they
don't do this, if they don'tmaintain and control a
repository, then they're exposedand you would know about the
risk of this.
(11:27):
It's a fiduciary duty now?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, the risks are, if I'm hearing you correctly,
Trish, what you're reallytalking about is something that
we've espoused for years withour clients, which is
independence.
A lot of times, vendors willcome along to volunteer boards
and what are they offering?
They're offering ease ofoperations.
We're going to do this for you.
You don't have to worry aboutit.
(11:51):
Just go live your life andwe'll take care of it.
Here's the problem.
The buck stops with the board.
These other people are youragents.
So the sticky factor is we'lltake care of your document
storage, we'll take care of yourdocument storage, we'll take
care of your website.
But if you part ways and youare left in the lurch, that
becomes a huge problem.
(12:12):
So that is where an independentwebsite, an independent
document storage portal, all ofthat becomes terribly critical,
because sometimes you don't knowhow long you're going to be
between professional management.
You don't know if what youthought you could fill in a week
might take a few months.
So that independent componentis really, really important,
(12:35):
because it does help youcontinue to comply with the law,
regardless if you're in themidst of a transition.
You mentioned your system.
I assume you limit the numberof people in an association who
have access to the documentstorage.
Is that how it's set up?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yes, that's right.
So the board members have theability to access and they have
control, total control, and thenthey can enable the property,
the current property manager, tohave access in order to keep it
updated.
But if that property managerfinishes their term, then the
(13:15):
board removes that access aswell.
So it's entirely controlled bythe board members, but updated
by the property managers.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I have had a couple episodes Trish on the podcast
talking about mental healthchallenges in associations.
And bear with me because thereis a tie-in to this episode.
What if we have somebody let'ssay it's the manager or board
member that decides they want togo in and destroy some
documents, make it a littledifficult for the association.
(13:47):
How would you handle that?
What kind of backstops do youhave?
And, by the way, in the stateof Florida that is a crime If
somebody is going in anddestroying documents,
particularly if they're doingsomething to cover up a crime.
So how do you back up or whatkind of backstops do you have in
place if there was somebody whohad access to the document
storage and was intent on doingsomething bad?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Oh, yes, absolutely.
We have backups and, with ourtech team, they would be able to
access the information.
We've got a record, you know.
We can trace everything that'shappened in the past so we can
ensure that we can reinstate theinformation.
So there would be no issuethere, as long as we're told as
(14:32):
soon as possible that, yeah,there's been, you know, some
breach, some breach, yes, that'sright.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I have to tell you I think that is one of the key
points that I want our listenersto take away because we are
seeing an uptick in fraud,believe it or not, Just as the
legislative consequences havegotten more serious, we're
seeing some uptake in fraud.
I don't know how it keepshappening if people just don't
think they're going to getcaught.
(14:59):
And it's so much easier tocommit fraud when you're only
dealing with paper documentation.
It's so easy for a piece ofpaper to be tossed out or burned
up or otherwise destroyed orremoved, as opposed to digital
documents that carry a footprintcorrect.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Absolutely.
This is why I thought we shouldhave everything digitized and I
don't understand why it hasn'thappened earlier, you know, and
that's why I was so motivated todo something.
I thought, why?
Why hasn't anyone else donethis?
But then I soon realized howdifficult it is to get people on
(15:38):
board.
Initially because it's dauntingto think, oh gosh, I've got to
go and find all the old plansand where are they and where to
start.
So it's been a challenge.
But once you've got all thoserecords digitized, oh wow, it
makes such a difference toeverything.
It's far more efficient,convenient.
(16:00):
People have confidence and thevalue course of the of the
property would definitely be.
It would improve if you canshow instantly okay, we've,
we've got this property wellmaintained, we know where the
warranties are at, when theinspections are due, we've got
all the budgets in place for thereserve studies, everything
(16:22):
Everything's there.
And also it could even reduceinsurance premiums if you can
prove to insurers that thisproperty is well-maintained and
compliant.
So there's so many benefits todigitizing.
I'm sure there are othersaround the globe, but I'm so
glad that I've started doingthis and to help others so that
(16:47):
they're very well informed abouttheir property, so that they do
stay safe.
We don't want tragedies likewhat happened in South Miami,
and that's another motivationfor doing this.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
There's obviously a need.
I mean, the Florida legislaturehas, over the last couple
sessions since the Surfsidetragedy, they have said they
have obviously passed veryrobust engineering and reserve
funding mandates, but inaddition, they have said you
need to keep your documents inan organized fashion.
Trish, we never saw that before.
(17:19):
That leads me to believe that alot of legislators were
contacted by owners and who toldthem it's like a junk drawer.
I go in and there's stuff justyou know, bulging piles of paper
everywhere.
I can't find what I'm lookingfor.
So the law was changed inFlorida to say, yes, you must
maintain your documents in anorganized fashion.
(17:39):
It also the law was changed toimpose very strict penalties,
including possible criminalpenalties, if you fail to
produce documentation.
So we know there's been a needfor this.
The law was also changed to saythat an association can upload
all these documents to a websiteand provide them digitally.
(18:00):
So they're definitely theFlorida legislature is
definitely sending a very strongsignal to associations that
there's a better way to do this.
And I tell my clients as welllook, extricate yourself from
the document inspection processto the extent that you can,
because that's where we findmany of the complaints to the
(18:24):
state they come about becausesomebody has said that they
asked for certain documents andthey didn't get them.
And I'm going to loop this allthe way back to our other
conversation, which was look, ifyou have an angry homeowner and
they've asked for certaindocuments, they really don't
care that.
Your response is that the priormanager or management company
(18:46):
failed to turn over thosedocuments or they lost them To
that angry homeowner.
That's completely irrelevantinformation.
You're required as a board tohave this.
The association doesn't have it.
That homeowner is going to thestate and filing a complaint.
In other jurisdictions they maygo straight, they may file a
lawsuit.
In other jurisdictions, theymay go straight, they may file a
lawsuit.
So you know this kind of comesfull circle as to why is there
(19:11):
such a disconnect when it comesto digitizing these documents?
I assume you've dealt withpeople and you've seen how
daunting it is.
Are there steps that can betaken to make it less daunting?
Do you send out a team with aportable scanner to start
digitizing all their documents?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
We assist, we give guidance as to what sort of
documents they should becollating and digitizing, and we
do have services we canorganize to go into these
buildings and scan them ifthat's necessary.
So we onboard the board member.
(19:49):
There's usually one boardmember that will be nominated to
liaise with us, but I do stressthat it's important to get
professional assistance as faras what sort of documents they
should be digitising, like youknow from their structural
(20:15):
engineers that they've used inthe past and their attorneys Get
professional advice as to whatshould be going onto the system.
We're not, even though I'mlegally trained that is not my
role in this case.
We can give guidance, but Irecommend that the boards get
(20:37):
the professional advice in theirown jurisdiction as to what
information should be put on thesystem so that they're
compliant.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
A lot of things today are digital to begin with.
So the engineering, thestructural integrity reserve
study, all of that is beingtransmitted by email and PDF.
So I assume, trish, they couldjust take that PDF and upload it
.
Right, the engineering reports,absolutely, send it over to you
.
For all the other stuff thatthey haven't done over the years
.
Let's say, and you'reabsolutely right, every
(21:07):
jurisdiction, every state isdifferent.
But speak to associationcouncil, figure out how far back
you have to go in terms ofdocument storage, what should
and should not be uploaded.
But let's say we've got.
Like six years ago we got areport but it wasn't sent by
email.
I always suggest you knoweverybody has these committees.
(21:27):
What about a scanning committee?
Why not get some of thevolunteers in your community?
If you don't want to pay tohave a company come in and scan,
could we just use a scanningcommittee to scan some of these
old documents?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
That's a great idea.
I like that one.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Put people to work, why not?
We'll give them something to do.
You could give them some time.
I've never heard of a scanningcommittee.
I have heard of every type ofcommittee except a scanning
committee, and I keep saying itthis is the wave of the future.
Digitalization has so manybenefits in terms of extricating
yourselves from the process,which is always an unhappy
(22:06):
process.
Right, if everything's up thereand accessible, you don't leave
room for an owner to claim thatthe association is being less
than transparent, is hidingdocuments, is trying to be
hurtful.
It's all there.
It saves you time, it saves youmoney.
It might make Trish, it mightmake my phone ring less,
(22:28):
actually, because that's a lotof the calls I field are about
botched document inspectionrequests.
But nevertheless, I think itneeds to be the future when it
comes to maintaining thesedocuments, and I'm wondering I
don't know if you've ever talkedto any insurance experts Are
any of them insisting that thesemaintenance records be
(22:49):
maintained this way?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
They should be.
It would make their job easieras well.
So that's where I'm hopingthings will progress to that it
just becomes standard practicethat you digitize all the
(23:10):
information, and yeah, thatwould be great.
It would make everybody's lifeeasier.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
This is not an all or nothing proposition, right?
So if somebody came to you andthey said we're going to start
this process, but let's say theyonly have 20% of their
documents digitized, it's not.
Indox isn't saying you have togive us everything or nothing,
Correct?
Have you seen associationsbuild up their digital footprint
(23:39):
over time?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yes, yes, that's exactly how it works.
You can keep on adding, keepupdating, and that's what we're
about.
It's evolving and, yeah, so youcan go back as far as you wish,
or you can just start from acertain date, but over time,
(24:00):
yeah, you just continue toupdate and make it better and
better and better.
So it's not just a repository,it's not static.
We do more than that.
So it's dynamic and the boardmembers are alerted when
inspection reports are due, whenthere's insurance renewals due,
(24:27):
when warranties are about toexpire.
There can be videos on how tooperate the security system or
emergency evacuations, thingslike that.
So it is a dynamic system.
It's not just having therecords there.
It's evolving and right nowwe're looking at implementing AI
(24:49):
into the system so you canactually eventually just talk to
the system and it will talkback saying, yes, okay, we have
this inspection coming up nextweek, it's booked in, so this is
where it's going.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
That does sound exciting.
So how much does all this cost?
What's your pricing model?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
So the base model is 400 a month to subscribe and
that's for up to 10 units.
So if you have more than that,there's additional costs.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
You mean 10 condo units 10 condo units.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, that's for the multifamily Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
But then okay, what if I have a 400-unit hire rise?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, so then it just goes up incrementally.
So, yeah, we make sure thatit's very reasonable considering
, you know, the management ofthe risk that's at stake.
So, yes, it's all there on ourwebsite so you can look at our
pricing.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Let me ask you, though, because there's a
difference between monitoringthe units and monitoring, let's
say, the common elements thebuilding envelope and the roof,
the electrical and plumbing.
In the common elements, Do youdifferentiate between the units
and the building'sresponsibility for common
elements?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yes, yes, that is possible, so that each
individual unit owner can haveall their information stored and
updated and it's up to them.
They have control of thatdocumentation and it, you know,
they can share that with withthe board and vice versa.
(26:37):
So all the information is thereand it's multi-layered.
So if, if you want to find outhow we do all of that, it is
very easy, user-friendly.
I can take you through wouldtake 20 minutes to show you how
easy it is to be able to manage.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
It sounds like there's options, because for
some associations they're notgoing to offer that to owners to
keep their own data.
That may be down the road, butthe association's interested in
the data they need to support,let's say, an insurance claim
under the association's masterpolicy.
Although I do see the utilityof also having the units
(27:19):
monitored, because one of thebig issues we have in Florida is
who's responsible for what inthe aftermath of a water leak
right, water has gotten into theunit.
Now there's mold, who'sresponsible for what?
So I can see the utility of theowners staying on top of their
own maintenance as well.
That's a huge challenge we havein our multifamily buildings is,
(27:42):
sometimes we have owners whojust think they don't insure the
interiors of their units.
Maybe they'reiors of theirunits, Maybe they're not
maintaining their appliances.
They're not terribly organized.
This can also be true forowners that are investor owners
and in those units they've gotrenters who may not be
communicating on maintenanceissues that crop up with the
investor owner.
(28:03):
So I can see the utility acrossthe board.
Now what if somebody wants toleave you?
We talked about leaving amanagement company.
Well, okay, I've signed up, nowI want to leave you.
So does the associationmaintain access to all of the
documentation.
How do you get it back to them?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, well, that's a good question.
So if they do wish to leave outour service, then we would
actually ensure that weunderstand why and we would give
the board 30 days to retrieveall the records from our system,
or they can do a bulk downloadso they would still have access
(28:46):
to all those records, and then,though, it wouldn't be
structured so it would just bean information.
That is not easy then to beable to understand where
everything's at.
So, oh, yes, they can certainly.
If they do leave our system,they would be able to access and
(29:06):
retrieve all the records, andthen it's up to them what they
do.
So it just won't be thestructured way for their
maintenance and repair logs andwarranty alerts and all the past
historical records withdifferent contractors and so
forth that would be lost.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Who's your oldest client?
What's the longest you've had aclient?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
The longest, oh gosh, six years, because we started
six years ago.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well, that's good news.
That's good.
And the growth?
Have you seen exponentialgrowth?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yes, well, especially in America, and this is because
you're ahead of us, you see,and I think because of the
Champlain Towers, that tragedythat forced, I guess,
governments to bring in safetylegislation, and I was actually
contacted by a structuralengineer in New York actually
(30:09):
contacted by a structuralengineer in New York because
they were looking for a way tocontinue the inspection reports
and what they'd done ondifferent buildings, and they
had been searching for a systemto do that and couldn't find one
.
And they looked all over theworld and then, yeah, they came
to me and asked if I'd be ableto assist them.
So that's how we got into theUSA and, yeah, it's taken off
(30:34):
ever since.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I would think that it would be equally important for
building departments to haveorganized digital storage on all
the engineering reports theyreceive.
Has anybody have you dug intothat, trish?
Maybe that's a new potentialbusiness idea for you.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Oh, yes, yes, I've thought about that.
Look, there's so many benefitsto the industry and different
organizations in the industry.
So, you know, for real estateagents, we help them.
We also help propertydevelopers, because now they've
got a handover, all theinformation, there's a lot more
(31:13):
information for consumerprotection as well.
There's yeah, there's a lot ofbenefits to the industry as a
whole.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
So, yeah, the reason I asked that question is because
before the Champlain Towerstragedy, there were only two out
of 67 Florida counties thatrequired engineering inspections
for older buildings, and thatwas Miami-Dade and Broward
County, and, as you know,Champlain Towers South was
located in Miami-Dade.
What was surprising is thatthere were numerous examples of
(31:47):
older buildings never being told, never being followed up with
by local government in those twocounties that they needed to
have their 40-year certificationor their 50-year certification.
Now, I don't know if that wasjust because local government
was cash-strapped or distractedor they could benefit from a
more robust propertydocumentation storage system,
(32:10):
but you know there were numerousexamples where the local
building departments were not ontop of those reports.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Oh right, well, that's another reason why they
need a system like what weprovide.
So everyone knows the status ofthe building and what's
required as far as thestructural integrity of those
buildings.
And I guess, now that it'sclear, the responsibility does
lie with the owners, and it'svery onerous, and you need to
(32:43):
have a more structured system inplace.
There's no question.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Oh, I agree, I'm not sure.
I agree that the entire onusshould be on the owners.
I think that there really needsto be a collaboration with
government when it comes tohelping to keep buildings safe,
and I also think there's a hugeobligation on the part of the
people building these buildingsto make sure they're building
safe.
And I also think there's a hugeobligation on the part of the
people building these buildingsto make sure they're building
(33:09):
safe buildings from the startand they're delivering all the
documentation and themaintenance records they need to
get that building and thatcommunity off on the right foot.
I cannot tell you how manytimes, trish, when we're going
through transition fromdeveloper control, all of a
sudden warranties are missing.
When we're going throughtransition from developer
control, all of a suddenwarranties are missing.
(33:30):
Maintenance records they don'texist.
You know you need to start offon the right foot, and doing so
means that the developers needto be terribly organized as well
and they need to be forced andmade to deliver all of the
documentation so that newlytransitioned board has all the
information they need to have inthe event that they suffer a
casualty loss, and also how theymap out ongoing maintenance and
(33:54):
repairs.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Exactly, and we're there to provide a service for
the property developers andconstruction companies, provide
a very comprehensive way ofmanaging the property long term
and not just think they can walkaway.
(34:21):
So they do have aresponsibility too, and by using
Indox, if you know, the boardscan specify that's what I want
all the information in adigitized form, and if buyers
also ask for that, then it'sgoing to be standard practice
(34:41):
and better for everybody, sothat, yeah, they're responsible
for their part and that's onlyfair.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
You tell boards who are intrigued by your service.
They know they need to dosomething different, but they're
afraid.
Or, as you said a few minutesago, the whole process just
seems so daunting.
What's a few of the things yousay to those folks to help them?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, I realized that boards can be disorganized and
some of the board members maynot have the capacity or the
ability.
Yeah, they're volunteers,aren't they?
So we come in and we meet withthem and hold their hand,
(35:31):
basically, and it's astep-by-step process so that
they feel confident in theprocess and then, when it's all
set up, they don't have to keepit up to date themselves.
We train the property managerto do that on their behalf, and
so they should.
So, yeah, we definitely,therefore, for the board members
(35:56):
to feel that they've gotsomeone holding their hand and
making it an easy process, aseasy as possible.
I mean, there will be somedocuments that could be
difficult to access or you'dhave to get them scanned, as we
spoke about, but it has beendone, it can be done and we're
(36:17):
there to help.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
And some of them are going to be self-managed, trish.
So I would think this is goingto be equally or even more
important for those boards thatdo not have a professional
management team, and they wouldbe looking for something like
this In that case, who are youtraining up?
You're going to train a boardmember, I assume, or a committee
member?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yes, usually a board member and there's usually one
who will put their hand up and,as I said before, it is very
easy.
It's intuitive software.
So it's really, once you've hada look at it, once you've had
the demonstration, and alsothere's videos within our system
(36:59):
to take you through differentthings, that some of our
features and how to do it, incase you forget, or yeah, so
it's very easy to manage, as yousaid, the self-managed
properties.
This is perfect for them.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
So you mentioned AI as one of the exciting new
features.
Anything else on the horizon interms of property documentation
, storage?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Augmented reality is another one that we've been
looking at to have the buildingscanned and have a 3D image of
the property.
So we're looking at partneringwith another business that does
that.
And, yeah, there's an evenblockchain as well, because
banks and insurers they willwant to know that this data is
(37:50):
immutable, it can't be corrupted, and, with blockchain, that
will bring more trust for banksand insurers.
So we're also looking at thattechnology, but at the moment
it's working brilliantlycompared to paper.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Go back to the augmented reality.
So, for instance, I don't knowif you read the report the media
report a couple months backabout a series of luxury high
rises in Miami-Dade that aresinking slowly, but it was about
subsidence.
How would what you just saidaddress that?
(38:29):
Is that the augmented reality?
Is that possibly a measurementtool on certain metrics in the
building?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Oh look, it's helpful .
Also, there's other technology.
We've partnered with structuralengineers that are based in New
Jersey and they've come up witha technology that is actually
supported by the Floridaauthorities in a way that this
(38:57):
technology can monitor the wholestructure with accelerometers.
They're called and they'replaced on the building and
within a 24-hour period it canmonitor the integrity of the
building and pinpoint all theweak areas and then they can
come up with a plan of action.
(39:18):
So this is a technology thatwe're embracing as well,
especially for those buildingsthat might have some subsidence
or cracking.
Then these engineers can comein and do this monitoring.
So, yeah, there's a lot of newtechnologies out there that can
come into play and really helpwith the confidence aspect of
(39:44):
the safety of the building.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Well, that's fascinating because, if I'm
hearing you correctly, thatsounds like an alarm system that
if Champlain Towers had hadthat in place at some point,
that alarm system would havealerted people that that
building was failing.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That's exactly right.
So they know there's even atiniest, tiniest movement of the
building will trigger an alert,and then engineers will go out
there and then they'll bedetermining what measures need
to be taken in order to preventa disaster.
So this is exactly what we needto do, because there's so many
(40:24):
old buildings now, and buildingsaren't meant to last forever
they're not built that way and Iread that there's two-thirds of
buildings in condos in Miami orin Florida sorry are over 30
years old.
So we do have to be aware ofthis and put measures in place.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
And you don't need a building to completely collapse
or partially collapse to have atragedy on your hands.
We've seen balconies collapse,we've seen docks collapse, so
it's not.
I know there are people thatthink that lightning doesn't
strike twice, but again, youdon't need a complete building
or partial building collapse tohave a loss of life and tragedy
(41:10):
and I think that we saved thebest for the last.
But that building alert systemis fascinating to me because you
know if it does what you'resaying it does, it could alert
people that there's somethinggoing wrong with the building,
in time to get it addressed andsave lives.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yes, that's right and that's why we've partnered with
them.
So for the older buildings thatcome onto our platform, we
encourage that they do at leasta baseline using this technology
, and it's not expensive, butit's so reassuring to have it
(41:49):
done.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
I agree.
Well, trish, thank you so muchfor your time.
Where can people find you?
And remember, trish is inAustralia, so if you call her
her, just keep that in mindthat's okay.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
We've got a team, so wherever wherever you are in the
world, we're here to help 24hours.
So don't worry about the time.
That's just where I am rightnow, but I'm often traveling and
over in the states in fact, I'mover there in a couple of weeks
time.
So but if you want to find outmore, have a chat to me or a
demo, just go to our website uhindex I double N D O Xcom and
(42:31):
just click on contact us andwe'll be in touch.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Thanks so much, my pleasure.
Contact us and we'll be intouch, trish.
Thanks so much, my pleasure.
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to follow and rateus on your favorite podcast
platform, or visitTakeItToTheBoardcom for more
ways to connect.
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