In the aftermath of Helene's wrath and Milton's threatening approach, this week’s episode of Take It To The Board, hosted by Donna DiMaggio Berger, takes us on the emotional journey of community association industry veterans Wayne Srsen and Kelly Kuhn as they share their firsthand experiences with natural disasters and the insurance industry. They also highlight the indispensable roles of first responders and logistics professionals, such as those at Florida Power and Light, who work tirelessly to restore normalcy.
The stormy landscape of Florida's insurance industry presents unique challenges. Donna, Wayne, and Kelly navigate the intricacies of working in this environment. From bureaucratic hurdles to the moral dilemmas faced by insurance adjusters, Wayne highlights why integrity and proactive preparation are crucial. They delve into the human side of disaster response, where community involvement can make all the difference. Kelly shares his insights on the importance of networking and how authentic connections can foster mutual support in the professional world, alongside discussing the distinctive strengths women bring to a sales environment.
As they journey through the hurdles of project management and board behavior, Donna, Wayne, and Kelly underscore the need for skilled professionals in construction endeavors, especially in older coastal communities. The significance of clear communication, effective leadership, and expert guidance cannot be overstated. The episode wraps with a heartfelt reflection on life's fleeting moments, inspired by personal philosophies and the tranquil solace of the beach. Join us as we celebrate resilience, integrity, and the power of community in overcoming life's challenges.
Conversation Highlights:
- Perception that insurance companies seek to deny or underpay legitimate claims accurate
- Preparing for catastrophic events
- The hallmarks of a great salesperson
- Board members or managers attempting to serve as the Owners’ Representative on large restoration projects
- Preventing cost overruns on a project
- Incidental damage to a unit during a construction project
- Predictions for the community association industry
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi everyone.
I'm attorney DonnaDiMaggio-Berger, and this is
Take it to the Board where wespeak condo and HOA.
Today I'm thrilled to be joinedby two industry veterans who
have spent years navigating thecomplex world of community
associations.
With their extensive experience, they've likely seen it all
every challenge, every triumphand everything in between.
(00:23):
Get ready for a deep dive intothe stories, insights and
lessons they've gathered alongthe way.
Wayne Searson has been withAmerican Building Contractors
for 23 years.
Prior to that, he was aninsurance adjuster for a major
insurance company for 10 yearsand has worked on so many
weather-related disasters he'slost count.
After living in the Midwest forhis entire life, he has
(00:44):
relocated to New Smyrna Beachwhere he currently resides.
Now, kelly Kuhn has spent alifetime in sales, business
development and marketing.
He's currently the co-founderand partner of premier owners
representative projectmanagement firm LaGreca
Consultants LGC, primarilyserving South Florida.
Kelly is involved with severalnonprofits in South Florida and,
(01:05):
with 55 years of playingrecreational golf, he tells me
he's still a below averageplayer.
He may want to listen to apodcast episode we just taped
with Eric Larson.
He's a world-renowned golfcourse designer.
That's coming out before thisepisode so I'm hoping maybe he
tunes in.
Maybe Eric has some tips forhim.
Kelly is also the Kelly in theIndustry Focus podcast, wayne's
(01:27):
World, and Kelly, obviously,wayne Searson is the Wayne in
Wayne's World.
So my guests today appear onLinkedIn, facebook and YouTube
every Wednesday for the last 105weeks of their podcast.
It'll be more by the time thisepisode comes out.
And I have to say I was honoredto be a guest on that podcast
twice.
So with that, guys, welcome toTake it to the Board.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thank you, Donna Great to be here Great to be
here yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I'm excited to have you guys here and I've never had
a fellow podcaster.
You know what?
That's not true.
I have Marcia Narine Weldon.
Professor Weldon also has apodcast, you're my second
podcasters on this pod Honored.
Thank you, Wayne.
You're a fellow Midwesternerlike me.
Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Grew up in Eau Claire , Wisconsin, and went to college
at Minnesota State University,Mankato, which is a smaller
southern located university partof the Minnesota State
University school system, and soI was there until my wife and I
moved to New Smyrna Beach abouttwo years ago.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I'm hearing the accent.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Right you can never get rid of.
Was there until my wife and Imoved to New Smyrna.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Beach about two years ago.
I'm hearing the accent Right.
You can never get rid of it,Although I don't have.
I'm from Chicago.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I don't have an accent, do I no?
No, actually you do not.
I would have never guessed thatat all.
You, you don't you could be.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
you could be an anchor woman, right?
Because that's what they lookfor.
Is no accent?
No, exactly, Just innondescript accent.
So I want to start with you,Wayne.
So you worked as a contractorand an insurance adjuster for
years.
You've dealt with naturaldisasters.
What has that history taughtyou about human resilience?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, I'll tell you what I mean as a first responder
for Hurricane Ian.
First of all, under a quote,unquote.
You know, I guess I wasn'tthere immediately because it
took me two days to get out ofmy community in New Smyrna Beach
and then to navigate all theway to Ground Zero.
You know, in the Punta Gordaarea of Fort Myers.
I got to tell you, don, I'venever seen anything like it.
(03:18):
You see pictures, you know.
You see stuff on the news, butwhen you are there and you are
supposed to inspect a buildingthat isn't there anymore, when
you see people walking aimlessly, when you see the only people
out there that are working andshoveling crap up so you can get
back in there very emotional,I'd like everybody that hears
(03:39):
this podcast to give a littlebit of more respect for some of
these folks that are puttingthis stuff back together to
really even get in there.
Human resilience everybodykeeps moving on, but the process
has taken so long.
Now there's people still tothis day that haven't been able
to get back in because of theinsurance industry and how
gummed up I want to make sure Idon't say any other phrase, but
(04:03):
gummed up part of what we'relooking at.
People are very resilient, so Imean it's all good on that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
You know, I just recently taped an episode with
Dr Jesse Sparrow on CERTs theCommunity Emergency Response
Teams and we talked about thatthe type of people like yourself
who are the first ones to getthere and help people.
I think it takes a special typeof person who's willing to rush
into the burning building or gointo the communities that have
been devastated.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, look, I want to make sure that you all
understand that.
You know I am obviously not inthat category.
Okay, you know I'm there tolook at properties, to inspect
them and to drone them, but Isee what happens.
There's a climate of fear thatyou can feel.
You can taste the seawaterlevels that rose so dramatically
.
You see cars where they're notsupposed to be.
(04:52):
You see everything destroyed.
It literally is like zombieapocalypse.
So to me, some of the biggestheroes by far were Florida Power
and Light.
I remember being on the roadtrying to get over to where I
needed to be and you see thesemassive convoys of FPL trucks
coming over the horizon andyou're just like, yeah, because
(05:12):
you know what.
If there's one thing Americacan do right, we can do
logistics right.
Okay, got a lot of problemsgoing on right now, but you know
what?
Logistics isn't one of them.
And the heroes that I saw wereFPL and the workers that were
removing all the debris to getthings in motion.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Were you an independent public adjuster,
Wayne, or working for aninsurance company?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I worked for a major insurance company.
That is correct.
I was never an IA, no, I wasstaff.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
So post-casualty were people real happy to see you.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Absolutely.
They were very happy to see mebecause they knew that I was
part of the solution.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Okay, then you'd get the ball rolling for them to
recover.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Get the ball rolling for them for recovery and I know
we can kind of touch on this aswe keep going along One of the
major things I found is thatthat recovery process has taken
a lot more time than it used to.
I mean, we are in a really badsituation now.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Now, why is that?
Is that because there's justcasualty after casualty?
We don't seem to have as muchbreathing room between disasters
these days.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, I'd say that's a big part of it.
You look at the wildfires outwest.
You look at Tornado Alley inthe Midwest.
You look at everything that'sbeen going on with the
hurricanes down in Florida.
You remember Superstorm Sandythat went all the way up the
eastern seaboard, right?
So nobody's getting a pause.
The insurance companies maketheir money on reinvestments of
(06:38):
premiums.
Okay, they're not getting thatreturn on.
With the stock market being sovolatile, reinsurers have been
hammered by trying to pick upthe cost.
You've got citizens in thestate of Florida.
The biggest thing that we havefound out I just said I found
out in my career since day onehas been what we call the three
Ds that the insurance companiespractice delay, deny, defend.
(07:00):
You take all of those together,you throw in what we're in
right now with any majordisaster and that's what we're
getting Delay, deny, defend, 3dsand we all know them.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So the IAs, the independent adjusters, like to
paint you guys, the adjustersfor the insurance companies, as
the bad guys.
There's a perception out therejust what you said that
insurance companies are notmaking it easier.
You know, all theseassociations have paid for their
coverage and then, when itcomes time to actually make a
claim, it's not so easy.
Is that an accurate perception,wayne?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, it's very accurate.
I think that it started outkind of early on in my career
was with what upper underwritingstandards that the insurance
companies were lazy on?
Ok, prior to drone technologyand everything, they were kind
of throwing numbers up onvaluations of the buildings that
could have been older orwhatever.
That was kind of the beginningof when we knew that there were
some problems because of the laxunderwriting standards.
(07:56):
Okay, and so I've been askedthat throughout my career is hey
, were you ever under any ordersfrom the insurance company not
to give a fair settlement?
Well, the answer to that is no,not under my tenure.
However, things really reallyreally became clear and apparent
actually with that expose thatthe Washington Post published,
(08:18):
maybe about six months after Ian, where Heritage was caught in
fraudulent claims.
Where Heritage was caught infraudulent claims and I sent you
the link and I highly encourageyou to post that okay, because
that ripped open everything thatwe kind of knew, kind of
suspected, but yet you knowthere was an adjuster that was a
whistleblower for this.
(08:38):
Okay, I encourage everybody tofind this, if Donna doesn't put
the link on just GoogleWashington Post Hurricane Ian
Fraud.
We'll put it in the show notes,yeah oh yeah, you're gonna see
that claims were due 80, wherethe folks at Heritage actually
re rejiggered the estimates.
Okay, they fraudulently didthat and and this was a landmark
(09:01):
, landmark, expose.
Now everybody, now everybodyknows, ok, there's no, there's
no, there's no backing away fromwhat we all know now.
Ok, because now, now it's real.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
We find this in a number of different industries.
Wayne, if you don'tself-regulate, then government
comes in and regulates you,Right?
So in the aftermath of thatexpose, the Washington Post
expose did the insuranceindustry take any steps to
self-regulate?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Well, I mean, it's all word salad, right.
I mean we're looking into it.
You know the state of Floridais doing an investigation.
Look, one thing that's kind ofbaffling to me with what I've
noticed since I've been workinghurricanes here in Florida since
2002 and on, you know, likewith all the alphabet, Eugene,
William, Francis, all that stuffthat raked Florida.
I worked them all OK andFlorida doesn't seem to be that
(09:48):
consumer friendly of a state.
Because I know that in othermarkets I work in, particularly
in Minnesota, is if you get acomplaint filed against you as
an adjuster and it goes rightaway to the Department of
Commerce, the Department ofCommerce opens up a file, OK,
and you need to answer that.
The branch claims manager needsto officially answer that
within a very short period oftime.
(10:08):
So he or she is coming to youfor answers right away.
Not really sure why.
That doesn't really seem to bethat prevalent in Florida.
I don't really see it and Idon't understand.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Well, maybe we get you up to Tallahassee to testify
next session.
Talk a little bit about whatthey think they're doing with
insurance reforms.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I mean all of the homeowners here.
I mean we live here, this isour home, it's my home now and
you know I'm like everybody else, man, I'm dreading what's
coming.
Okay, I really am.
You got Beryl, you got Debbie,you know the engine's getting
all revved up and ready to go.
We all know it and for thefirst time in my career, I'll be
honest with you.
You know I'm really not thatexcited about it, because I know
(10:46):
what everybody's going to face.
Ian was probably the worst thatI faced, and that even includes
Katrina, because Ian blew ahole right through when it made
ground zero in Punta Gorda andwent literally like 500 miles
and landed right on my doorstepin New Smyrna Beach.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Do you think people are getting fatigued with again?
The storms are coming morefrequently.
They're getting stronger, itseems.
Do you think people arebecoming fatigued, or are they
still pretty proactive when itcomes to storm prep?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
They're not proactive at all like I want to see them.
I know that when I give my CEcredit and I evangelize into the
management companies, I go intoabout the importance of a
priority service agreement withanybody.
Get on a list.
Okay, I don't care if it's mylist, but you got to get on one,
because the people that win arethe ones that sign a PSA and
they get on a list and they gettaken care of faster than
(11:38):
anybody that's not on a PSA.
This is the first year in 20some years that I've seen that
there seems to be more of asense of dread or a sense of
urgency.
But they kind of play theaverages, right.
I mean, there's really nowhereto hide.
Like I said, wildfires, west,tornado alley, midwest
hurricanes here, east down,everywhere.
(11:59):
If you think about itstatistically speaking, your
chances of being involved in anatural disaster and being
affected by it they're notreally that great.
Ok, weather is sensationalized.
It's something we all talkabout.
Ok, a lot of us make our livingon it, right?
But yet people are willing toroll the dice because you know
what, donna, life's pretty shortand I'm not going to really
(12:21):
worry about something that Ihave no idea if it's going to
affect me, that's very true andI think not going to really
worry about something that Ihave no idea if it's going to
affect me, but it's out there,that's very true and I think
it's starting to have apotential impact on tourism.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You know, florida is our economy primarily based on
tourism, and now we've got asix-month hurricane season and
I've heard people saying I don'tknow if we should I don't know
who's, by the way, I don't knowwho's vacationing here in August
and July.
Well, that's all season.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Anyway, donna, I'm going to jump in for a second
because that's what I alwayshave to do.
I think I didn't put a lot ofstuff in my bio.
I just tricked you up because Iwrote a bunch of goofy things.
I was wondering what you wouldsay.
I was a hurricane chaser and Iwas in the water damage
restoration business for anumber of years, and so I was
down in New Orleans, I was downin Nashville, and so two things
(13:11):
First of all, wayne's a rookieat being.
It's a different perspectivewhen you live here versus when
you live up north, so you lookat it different.
But when I went to Nashvilleexactly what Wayne said I liked
it.
Things need to be human, and Ithink one of the things that all
three of us are, is we're?
very human.
We're not robotic.
We're very involved with ourcommunities.
When we pulled into Nashvilleand I saw the devastation, I
worked on commercial buildingswhen I was in the restoration
(13:32):
business.
So when I saw all these homesand we're driving through and
you see, like a little kid,stuffed animal, on a nine foot
pile of stuff, I was physicallyill.
And then we actually found achurch.
I was working with A1 FloodTech my friends up in DC, so
they're my family and we found achurch that had no money and no
insurance and we arrived toolate to Nashville so we had no
(13:55):
customer.
So we did it for free and wetook and we did their building.
It was an amazing experiencefor everybody.
And then a couple of weekslater we got a flood in
Baltimore.
That was somewhere around$800,000 in revenue, so it kind
of worked out pretty well for us.
We paid it forward and it gotpaid forward back to us.
But at the end of the day,everything we do whether it's a
legal issue, an insurance issue,a restoration issue these are
(14:20):
all people and we have toremember that.
Because I'll tell you one thingthat's problem in Florida is
Florida is really bad.
I know really good people thatwill call me and want to do
things that aren't correct, andI go.
I want to be any part of it.
A lot of times it's our househas nothing to do with my
business.
But they're like can you tellme how I can make this claim to
where they're going to replacemy kitchen, even though I have a
(14:41):
leak in my backyard?
So the problem goes everywhere.
It's the public adjusters, it'sthe insurance companies, it's
the claimers, everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, that example you just used, Kelly, is what
the legislature relied upon tosay, hey, we need tort reform
because there's a lot of fraudin these claims, which there was
, Remember I talked about.
If you don't regulate yourself,it becomes a problem.
And when I talk about that,that's the legal industry,
that's the public adjustingindustry, you name it, banking,
(15:10):
you name it.
But that was the example thatthey relied upon.
But that was only one of theproblems that has led to
exorbitant premiums in the stateof Florida and elsewhere too.
I mean, frankly, it is ourgeographic vulnerability.
You know, regardless of claims,there are plenty of.
Frankly, it is that it is ourgeographic vulnerability.
You know, regardless of claims,there are plenty of people that
(15:30):
plenty of legitimate claimsthat were also underpaid or
denied and the people just sortof, the associations just sort
of went away and they shoulderedthe economic burden themselves
rather than fighting back with abad faith claim.
But, Kelly, I'm glad you jumpedin, because I was really
excited to have you on thepodcast, because you have told
me you can sell just aboutanything to anyone and we all
provide services, OK, peopleaccuse me of that.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I don't, I don't say that.
I think that was.
I think that was self-reportedKelly, but OK.
I was just repeating the claim.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That being said, all of us do work in this industry
for a long time, but people haveto know about us, so we still
have to sell to a certain extent.
So, in your opinion, what doyou think are the hallmarks of a
great salesman or saleswoman?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Right A salesperson, let's just know Salesperson.
Yes, Well, I'll tell you what.
First of all, women.
I've always understood thatwomen were better salespeople
than men.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And I'll tell you why , really?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Oh, women were better salespeople than men and I'll
tell you yep, oh yeah, I agreewith kelly yep, and I don't say
that, I'm not kissing up toanybody, you know and I don't
know I could that, but womenhave a nurturing one.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
They're.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
They're the moms of the world, so mom's not going to
rip me off.
Dad, you know I've seen himgolf he's, he's using that foot
wedge and everything else yeah,the foot wedge yeah.
So there's honestly you have to.
I, I have a salesman'spersonality.
I got it, so does wayne, so doyou, um, even though you're
you're selling law, but you areand sometimes you got to
(16:56):
overcome that.
So, because a lot of peoplejust think automatically kelly's
a salesman now with our company, lgc um, as an owner's rep, I'm
most anti-sale because I'malways starting from the very
beginning.
I'm telling all the bad thingsthat will happen and then how
we're going to handle it.
But I think the secret to anysuccessful salesperson is sell
(17:18):
something.
That's great.
I never was that good, but Ialways sell the right products
or service or people.
And now I basically I sellpeople.
I sell the team at LGC, whichthey're handpicked by George
James and I, and they're allgreat and I'm not bragging, it's
just a fact.
But if you, I can't sell acrappy.
You know a salesman can sell toanybody, like the old ice to
(17:40):
the Eskimo.
First of all, I wouldn't evendo it.
An Eskimo doesn't need to buyice from me.
But I don't want anybody everto buy anything that they don't
want or need, and I think that'sthe key to all of it.
But once again, the women areso much better at this than we
are.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Selling is a science and an art, would we all agree.
But to your point, you have tobe authentic.
So, yeah, there are peoplethere's actually law firms that
hire business development people, but if you're not in the
trenches, you don't know theproduct, you don't know the
service.
I think it's a harder sales job.
You know, let's talk about that.
We've got a lot of differentphilosophies in the association
(18:25):
industry.
Does going to a cocktail partyhelp?
Does going to a trade show help?
In my opinion, it's really aboutbeing a problem solver, and
this may be different, but Ithink we're all solving problems
, right?
You're working on construction,wayne is too, and he's helping
with insurance claims.
We're solving our customers'and clients' problems.
So, to me, the best and I don'teven know if it's sales, but
it's really getting in therewith a potential client and
(18:46):
working and letting them seewhat it would be like to work
with you if they actually hiredyou.
And I know there's a lot ofdifferent philosophies about
this, but I think the bottomline is you need to be authentic
.
You need to have experiencedwhat you're telling your
potential customer or clientthey need to do.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Everything that you said is correct.
Client, they need to doEverything that you said is
correct.
Just briefly, back to Kelly'spoint about who's a better sales
rep a man or a woman.
100% agree with Kelly it'swomen, for the reasons he stated
.
Now there's one thing that youmissed regarding the first two,
I think qualifications that arenecessary for a successful
salesperson, or what itencompasses.
(19:22):
Kelly and I talk about this allthe time.
What we do is performance basedokay, Meaning, when you saw me
at the Castle Group's trade showyesterday, I was performing.
Okay.
You right now are performingokay.
When Kelly and I are doing ourpodcast, we are performing.
So people might be thinking, ohso what are you doing is fake?
No, it's not.
When we go to that conference,we have to be on.
(19:44):
When we're talking to ourclients, we have to be on.
What does that mean?
Asking them questions andlistening.
When I get done with all ofthat and I go back to my hotel
room or come home, I'm very,very tired.
So I believe the authentic part, along with Kelly's comment
about working for a world-class,national-class company that you
believe in, you know veryimportant in being your true,
(20:06):
authentic Okay.
I think those things make up agreat sales representative in
their skills that everybody canlearn Okay.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You talked about nice shoes too.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Nice shoes.
Okay, I got that covered.
I had him on for the 50thepisode and I said what are two?
What's something peoplewouldn't guess about me?
He said you're a great cook andyou're like Imelda Marcos with
your shoes.
I'm like, well, I think peopleprobably would have guessed the
shoes thing, maybe not thecookie.
I want to circle back to whatWayne said tired after
(20:37):
performance.
So I've done the same thingwebinars, seminars, classes.
We do board member boot camp.
I've done keynote speeches.
You're right, it's drainingafterwards, is that?
Because I've often wondered arewe really introverts and we're
drained after we're out there?
Because I think a completeextrovert would be charged up
(21:01):
after a performance.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
To be engaged with people would be charged up after
a performance.
What do you think To be engagedwith people and I love what
Wayne said we're all threeprofessional talkers and I think
we're all three good listenersyou have to really listen and
process what people are sayingand then be quick.
To me, that takes a lot ofenergy out of me.
People don't realize how muchit takes out of you when I do
presentations.
It's exhausting and I've alwaysthought it was interesting when
(21:24):
certain owners that I've workedfor in the past before I was an
actual owner and I've kind ofgotten into that is they expect
you to just keep on rockingafter you've done a presentation
and you're keyed up in theright way, and the whole idea is
for people not to realize thatyou're keyed up, but it's
exhausting.
But another thing you mentionedwas about networking and how
important is that.
(21:45):
I did it.
I started a dinner here aboutfive years ago in South Florida
and I had an invitation of only20 people.
Everybody paid for their ownmeal because I'm very much into
nobody buying anybody'sattention and we got usually 15
to 20 people that would show upevery month and everybody was
engaged and the whole idea wasyou earned your way in and then
(22:07):
you earned your way to stay andsome people were not invited
back at a certain point becausethey were questionable on how
they did things.
So I thought we were a reallygood Brommer.
So that group, even though Idisbanded it I don't know, maybe
over a year ago because it justit was just too much and I was
hoping somebody would take overand he didn't.
But all of us and we hadprobably 40, 50 people run
(22:27):
through that group over thattime and we're all super
connected and the big thing isyou help people.
You know I know a guy, I know agal.
You know I want to get introuble with that one, but if I
know so many people and peoplecall me up and I don't care if
I'm going to make a dime off itor not.
I love connecting people Rightand that's extremely important.
So our happy hour is importantvery well, but if you don't
(22:50):
drink at them or if you do, youmoderate or you can make
yourself a laughing stock of thecommunity, you know, and also
you keep it professional andfriendly.
But I think networking isunbelievably important.
Love trade shows if you do itcorrectly.
If you sit away and just waitfor people to like throw buckets
of money on you, it's not goingto work.
(23:10):
If you try to sit there andtell them everything about your
business, it's not going to work.
All you're doing is buildingthat quick connection.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, you also have during the trade shows.
You also have a line of peopleand if you're spending 40
minutes talking, to one person.
I've seen it happen.
The other people just wanderoff because they can't wait that
long.
So you're right, you have tomake a quick connection.
I did want to say you know whatit's also tiring is.
We all prepare, you know.
You don't just go to do awebinar or a class or a
(23:39):
presentation.
You know on the fly.
There's thought the bestpresentations are the ones where
the presenters have clearlyprepared, they know their
material, they've given thoughtto who's in the audience.
That all takes time and effort.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Well, I think Wayne has a twist on that, which I
would agree.
Let me say for Wayne, if youknow your subject matter, the
preparation's been for me 61years.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
So on that one.
Now, if you's doing somethingmore defined you wait wait, wait
, 61.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Were you doing this in utero?
I was.
My mom said I came out talking.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Wait, wait, and that's true.
You told me you're the.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You're the youngest of nine children right right she
just kept going until you saidshe got it right my mom said she
was trying to reach perfectionand she said she did, and my
father said they were afraidwhat they're going to have next.
So it's all perspective.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Look, I'm one of four and I thought I came from a big
family, but one of nine, that's.
That's just absolutely crazy.
Well, and one last thing on theon the women are better.
Listen, I could hear that allday, so you know you can keep up
with that.
But I used to be a lobbyist andI will tell you, going to
Tallahassee, it was an advantage, I could get into meetings and
(24:52):
it wasn't a problem.
But you need to know yourself.
OK gender is not going to getyou anywhere if you don't know
your stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Women still always have to prove themselves,
probably a little bit more thanmen, but I think it's easy for
them because y'all are trulybetter.
But you know five sisters thatwere awesome.
Three brothers, mom awesome,and so that was awesome too.
But honest to God, I get soannoyed when people try to do a
gender thing At our company.
You would think that we weredoing it on purpose, because I
(25:21):
think we're close to 50-50, maleand female, and they're all
great.
But we're very selective on whothey are and who we bring in.
I don't care what they are, aslong as they're just great
people, honest people and have adesire to bring something to
the table and keep it there.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
So let's talk about your company.
Let's talk about what you do.
You do project management.
All of these communities rightnow, particularly the older
coastal ones, are allfrenetically undertaking long
delayed and deferred maintenanceand repair projects.
So what do you think aboutboard members and managers who
try to do what your company does, which is serve as project
(25:59):
manager on these large projects?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
So we're a project manager, owner's rep.
And the owner's rep we alwayssay is critical thinking and
that's a huge aspect.
A lot of people can project,manage and get you through some
steps and usually they're notleading, they're following, but
they're getting everything done.
So I do like to make thatdistinction.
A community association manager, a CAM, manages the association
(26:23):
.
They don't know construction.
And then I love it when you'vegot people that are from other
parts of the country that thinkthey can actually be an owner's
rep because they actuallyreplaced their sink in their
trailer, you know, 30 years ago.
Plus, there's a liability, aboard should govern, and some of
our best clients are engineers,architects, attorneys,
(26:46):
developers.
They understand it and they'refirst to say we have to get an
owner's rep.
So I think they're the bestexamples.
It's the ones that think theyknow so much I worry about.
And also, when it comes to acam, some of them are afraid
they're going to lose their jobif they don't do it.
Some of them think you just putthree bids out and take the
lowest price and that's theright one, and they don't know
what they're asking for.
(27:06):
So it's sort of like if youasked us to come in there and
manage via CAM.
You know our guys, our team'sbrilliant, but I don't think
they'd bode well doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
But you know, a lot of the management contracts do
require the boards to hire themanager to serve as project
manager on the construction.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
We normally see that a lot more.
I don't see it on our level,but we're doing 5 million to $40
million projects.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I mean I see it as standard in some of the
boilerplate contracts that saysif there's a large construction
or repair maintenance project, xpercentage goes to the
management company to handle theproject management.
I normally take that out andsay, if we want you, we'll let
you know.
But listen, you need to it's inmy opinion you need a safety
(27:52):
net.
So you need the board needs torely on various professionals to
create those safety nets whenthey are undertaking large
projects and project managementowner's rep.
You know, undertaking largeprojects and project management
owner's rep.
That's one where when I hearthat you know Jerry, the retired
contractor on the board, isgoing to be the owner's rep, it
gives me some pause.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Right.
It turns out he's a drywallcontractor.
You know, my number one way ofgetting business is executives
from all the different projectmanagement companies saying, hey
, we want you to come in and bidon this project.
So I'm disappointed that that'shappening on these contracts
and I love that you just exitout, because that makes no sense
.
I can see where some companieswant to derive that extra
(28:37):
revenue, but what they're doingis they're setting themselves up
for a disaster.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Well, yeah, I don.
I don't think the cam should beoverseeing the construction,
but there is additional burdenon the cams in terms of
scheduling, especially for largeprojects.
For that I think you can bakein some flexible pricing that
would.
That would address thatadditional burden on the cam.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
There's some demands.
But all that coordination,everything should be handled by
the good owner's rep firm.
They should not be leaning onthem.
The cam's already overworked.
I don't know very many camsthat are good, that are winging
it.
They're like oh, I can come inhere and do this in 20 hours a
week and I charge them for it.
Their demands are usuallypretty high.
(29:20):
So to ask them to do it, we doour best to have a great
relationship with them, keepthem in the know, but keep the
extra work down to a minimum forthem.
And if there is extra work andthere's a payment to the company
for that, I wouldn't disagreewith that, because there's
definitely.
Whenever a project like that'sgoing on, they're getting knocks
on the door a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So the one thing that everyone's going to want me to
ask you, as project manager orowner's rep, is what can you do
to prevent cost overruns on theproject?
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Well, the biggest thing is scope definition.
You have to design itcompletely and have everything
out there.
We do when we're doingcontracts with all the
participants, we always do aboveand below the line.
We know this is going to happenon this project.
We don't know this is going tohappen and also set up
contingencies that are realistic.
But on a concrete restoration,which a lot of the work is, you
(30:13):
don't know what it's going tocost until it's done, and that's
just reality.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Because it's a per unit based contract.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Right, exactly, and so you want to make sure you set
up the numbers correctly andwe're really good at defining
that.
A lot of times the board willsay, well, we're going to give
the engineers, we're going toallow them to look at 3% of the
building and then we're going tohave them come up with what
they want.
And we're like man, you know,let's hit this building hard.
The more preparation on anyproject is going to give a
(30:41):
better outcome as well.
Let's you know you slow up togo fast and a lot of people they
want to just hit the groundrunning because they're already
behind the eight ball of tryingto get things done.
Everything's in the planningand in the pre-construction and
that will make the constructiongo well.
And having somebody that's doingif you hire a company that's
got two or three projects goingon at any time, they don't see
(31:03):
enough.
That's out there going on Withus and other companies of our
size, we're doing 10, 15projects at a time.
We really understand the pulseof what's going on in the
industry and I think that'sextremely valuable.
You'll never get that out ofyour.
I don't care how good your camis, they're never going to have
the knowledge that a goodcompany is going to know about
what's going on in the industry.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Well, you know my partner, Steve Lesser, who heads
up our construction lawdepartment.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I was just going to mention that I was going to say
and it's so important to get aconstruction attorney and Steve
Lesser I'm sure enough peoplehave heard me say it Steve is
incredible, you know, andthere's a lot of good attorneys
out there, but he is the man.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, he's the titan in the industry, for sure, he
really is.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
He is and a lot of people that have worked with him
in the past.
What a great education theyhave by working with him.
If you don't give us all themechanisms to go after the
contractor or whoever, or thearchitect, the engineer, if we
don't have all the teeth in thatcontract, then we've got
nothing.
And a cam attorney isn't thatassociation attorney is not
equipped as well.
A smart one's going to saylet's turn it over to our
construction.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Well, that's what I do.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Or go outside of our company and do it.
So there's a lot of goodassociations.
Go straight to.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Steve, if it comes to me.
So that's what, that's what Ido.
And he and listen.
We just taped Steve.
I'm going to put a link to hisepisode in the show notes, but
he talked at length aboutcompanies like yours, using
owner's rep and projectmanagement.
So, wayne, you've been quietfor a while.
I want to ask you, becausewe've never seen so many angry
people in these communityassociations.
(32:38):
I mean, there's always been.
Listen, you're not going tomake everybody happy, but given
the economic challenges, giventhe changes in the law, there's
been a trend towards increasedincivility for years now.
What, what?
I know you don't have a crystalball, but do you have any
predictions?
You know, sometimes mygrandmother used to say the
(32:59):
pendulum swings very far in onedirection and then it always
swings back.
Well, are we going to get outof this mess anytime soon?
Speaker 2 (33:06):
No, and I'll tell you why.
When, when, when we were oh boyOK, can you soften it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Boy, my God.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Right, so it's.
It's certainly been on adownward trend for so long.
I think the worst I've everseen it was when when we were
interviewing for a lot, for alot of projects with the boards
for Hurricane Ian relatedprojects and I'm on a board
myself, so I mean I understandwhat the obligations and the
duties are.
Right, it's always beencertainly an eye opener to be
(33:38):
able to be on a board.
Okay, ok, and one thing I foundout is that the skills that
people accumulate when they're,when when they're out in sector,
most of the board folks areretired, they get on the board
and, man, they just can't waitto you know, to tell you their
skill set and everything theydid and how, how they believe
(34:00):
that the skills are transferable.
From what I did, you know, inprivate industry and now I can
handle it because, oh, I'm juston a board here the arrogance,
the dismissive attitudes towardscontractors and folks that are
just wanting an opportunity, youknow, to put the community back
together again, like knowingmore than I do when maybe they
(34:22):
were a suit, you know, atGeneral Motors or Pillsbury or
something, and I just sit thereand I'm just looking at these
people saying we're going tohelp you.
Okay, and this is a Q&A goingback and forth right, I want to
put your community back togetheragain.
So tell you that maybe it didpeak.
As far as bad behavior and howwe were treated during Hurricane
(34:43):
Ian, I'm not so sure.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Did you feel like the hired help when you were being
there?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
It was just flat out A lot of it just being just
disrespected, not listening toour answers on questions.
When we go into a board meeting, man, we are prepared Again.
I've seen all this for 23 years.
Right, there's not one disasterI have been through, but the
decline of the civility, of thebehavior for everybody, I think
(35:13):
is just emblematic of what'sgoing on in the country.
So maybe board behavior willimprove when we all improve.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Oh God, from from?
Yeah, hopefully I hear you whatyou're saying because I see it
in board meetings.
There is in some communities,especially on the board there
can be a level of eitherdefensiveness or, as you said,
arrogance.
It happens and it's verydifficult when you've got that
personality type on the board.
(35:41):
I also find that sometimes theperson who's taking the lead on
communications with vendors isthe least well-suited to that
task not a good communicator.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
I definitely agree with you, look, I mean we can
all give the analogies.
Kelly gave one early about notunderstanding what it would be
like to be a cam, so why wouldhe insert himself into being a
cam role, right?
So a lot of the behavior thatwe have found is when we give a
(36:13):
professional answer about howwe're going to put this
community back together again,and then it's like it's either
doubted or that's not.
What the person said before youcame in was like, and then when
we articulate and try andfigure out what the message is,
you know how to talk about it.
It's like the attitude of weknow more than you, which is
very disturbing to me.
When you're talking about 20,30, $40 million concrete tile
(36:37):
rehabs, really you know morethan me.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I do caution boards not to play engineer, not to
play architect, not to playlawyer, not to play CPA.
I will tell you, as attorneys,wayne, we probably get a little
more deference when we'redispensing advice to clients.
But I'm going to tell you I'vehad a client well, it's a former
client actually that I toldthem the law and the response
(37:01):
was we don't believe that.
I was like you know what it'sthe law, so it's was we don't
believe that.
I was like you know what it'sthe law.
So it's not really a questionof interpretation, it is the law
.
But we got that pushback too,and I'd never had a client say
that before, and even when theyread the law they were provided
still could not understand andreally push back.
So I hope you're right.
(37:23):
I hope we've peaked, but I don'tknow if we have.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Don.
I had that quite recently whereit was a restoration project
required by all to do it.
But it was great for me becauseand this guy was I don't want
to describe him too well becausehe's a client right now but so
he had a very high power.
He was CEO of several companiesand this guy was the man and he
says I don't believe that to betrue.
(37:46):
I said great, contact yourattorney, don't take my word for
it.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
So it's did the attorney back you up, Kelly?
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Oh, 100 percent, and part of it was I, and it happens
more often than not with us,with our side of the business is
where I remember one time aproject we've been doing now for
quite a while James Logreco.
For anybody who doesn't knowhim, he's one of the most
brilliant people I've ever knownand that's why I was a smart
guy to become a partner with him.
So James was talking to theclient and the client's being
(38:16):
nice to me and I know this muchand James knows you can't see my
arms because we're not video.
James is like so knowledgeable.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Our arms are widespread.
He's describing James'knowledge.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
It's a quarter of an inch of knowledge of what we do,
but I don't need to know thatthe rest of my team does, and
James is brilliant.
So this guy who, once again, Iwant to say what he does for a
living, but I can't.
But let's just say this guy hadone of the most incredible,
fascinating jobs on the planet.
And the guy was brilliant andhe was being super nice to me
and he's beating the crap out ofJames and I'm sitting there
(38:49):
like going holy smokes.
This guy's just not being nice.
And after about an hour he justkind of looked back and he says
James, I apologize, I was kindof being kind of rude, but I was
just testing you.
And he goes you're amazing.
I'm like, wow, my God, I didn'tknow.
I thought it was going to be.
I'm like I don't know if we'rejust going to walk out or what's
going to happen.
But the guy was brutal.
(39:09):
And I think a lot of timespeople are just testing us.
So on our side to Wayne'ssaying you know, hey, you know.
We've been doing his businessfor decades, he knows it.
But people want.
People want to know how much heknows before they want to trust
us when we're done.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
I'm going to find a TikTok video I saw on that very
thing where it was an interviewand the guy kept getting tested
like that and it was just abrutal interview and he kept
saying no, you passed, You'refired.
I'll send it to you afterwards,Can imagine going I don't want
to work for you.
You were mean.
I don't know, it does seem tobe some gang worship.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
That's when you have two testosterone filled guys.
If there had been a woman there, you know it would have
probably got a lot better.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Well, I don't know, maybe we tested.
I don't know, I don't know.
So, guys, what inspired you tostart your podcast Wayne's World
with Kelly?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Well, actually I started it by myself when I
lived up in Minnesota.
Kind of a little bit of aninfluencer, inner Chuck Gary B
See him a lot on LinkedIn.
He gave his high school partytheory where he just said
there's different forms of, youknow, seniority type folks in
high school.
You know, you got the jocks,you got the cheerleaders, and
(40:26):
then you have the third leg,which is the person that
provides, is the host for theparty for people that want to
have a couple drinks or engagein teenage behavior.
They always need a place wherethey can have a party.
So that's where the thirdperson comes into play and I'm
like how in the hell, what doesthis have to do with a podcast?
And I'm like, how in the hell,what does this have to do with a
podcast?
So if we are providing a forumand a venue for people that are
(40:49):
important in the industry, thatwe want to meet and we want to
provide a forum for them to gettheir message out, we're going
to do a podcast.
I did that by myself.
Then, when Florida opened upduring COVID, I went down and
started doing some trade showsand I saw this six foot eight
engaging man named Kelly Kuhnand just went up to him and
(41:12):
introduced myself.
Kelly and I became fast friendsand then he actually had the
really good idea of saying, youknow, because I actually had him
on the podcast and he said hey,dude, what if we do this?
What if we do it together invideo format?
And so that's where we aretoday.
So really, I started it, butyet it was Kelly's impetus to
get us to where we're at rightnow and provide the benefits for
(41:35):
people like you, even thoughyou do have your own form.
You are, you don't needanything from us, but we just
like you.
That's why we like you on ourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I like you too, but do you realize, wayne, that
Kelly sold you at that meeting?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Actually, that's not exactly how I remember it.
What happened was we did thepodcast on his audio podcast and
it was really clunky how he hadto do it to record and
everything and when he finishedwe both had to hang up and then
it recorded and then he calls meback immediately and he goes
(42:13):
dude, that was awesome.
Let's do this together all thetime.
That's how it happened.
But then a lot of conversationhappened between us talking
about it and doing it.
But we said we want to educate,inspire and entertain.
Our guests are our guests.
We're not the stars of our showand and we have, we've, we've
(42:34):
done so many podcasts.
We've had some amazing peopleand the one I thought was a dud,
he didn't think, and one thathe thought was a dud I didn't
think.
So I think we've had like anamazing run with incredible
guests.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
How do you decide who you want to invite to come on
your show?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Let's see how, the how, the what is, what is it how
the sausage is made?
So one of the agreements thatWayne and I have is we both have
veto power and if we don't bothagree, the person doesn't come
on the show.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
But.
And there's.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
You know, it's amazing how many people would
like to do it and I get it, butwe're not an infomercial Right
you?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
know we want to educate, inspire and entertain.
You're not a commercial.
You want people on and you wantto engage in a meaningful
dialogue.
Sure.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Yeah, we had a guy that was the chief operating
officer of Roto-Rooter who wasalso on Undercover Boss, and it
was the number one episode theyever had in the 10, 15 years
that they did the show and I metthe guy.
And then I wasn't even thinkingbecause we were talking business
and then the next thing we gotoff the phone.
(43:39):
I called him back up.
I go, I want you on the showand he came on and he was
absolutely phenomenal.
I mean we are so fortunate inSouth Florida to run into the
most amazing people.
We had Derek Holland, whoplayed 14, 15 years as a Major
League Baseball pitcher, 10years as a starter, playing two
World Series.
I met him on the golf coursedown here at a dump golf course.
(44:01):
I was embarrassed that he wasplaying there and that I was
playing there and we became fastfriends and he's been on the
show a few times.
Phenomenal guest Will Dogato,who is with Vassal, was in the
military and then he got intoconstruction and then he got
into property management.
What a story.
(44:21):
I mean there's so many peopleout there with great stories and
I think when we had him on theshow we talked for two minutes
about property management andthe rest was about that and his
wife and his daughter managementand the rest was about that and
his wife and his daughter.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
I mean, there's so many great cases out there.
You guys are curious.
You're curious like I am.
That's kind of my methodology.
You know, just if I meetsomebody and I think they're
interesting or it's aninteresting topic, I had a woman
on, a young woman in herthirties who Mark Cuban invested
in her company it's 3D Seawalls, living Seawalls.
She was actually one of my bestguests.
I couldn't believe it.
(44:53):
It was like she, this woman,was media ready.
So yeah, that's kind of how Ilook at it.
Would you guys ever havesomebody you absolutely detest
on your podcast?
But you think, but Kelly'sshaking his head now but, you
think that they have?
something valuable to say.
No, okay, that's your vote,wayne.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah, you know I actually treasure any time I can
disagree with Kelly, but onthis one I think I'm with him If
they have something really goodto say, but they don't fit into
the structure, I guess, of whatKelly and I are bringing out
there, which is a podcast thatwe believe in and we're proud of
(45:37):
.
If we're not behind you, forwhatever reason, then maybe you
better go find a differentpodcast.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Like a bad example would be like if Jeffrey Dahmer
was still alive.
I mean, he was really great atwhat he did.
I never had him on the show.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I was living in Milwaukee when he was throwing
people in the crock pot, dude, Iwas there.
Okay, I should have.
I apologize, don't think youknow more about jeff than I do
you know what I I have to jumpin.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
I grew up in desplaines, john wayne, gacy
same summer, not the clown guythe clown killer?
Yes, and actually my olderbrother was seven years older
than me.
One of one of his victims wasin my brother's graduating class
.
Yes, Terrible.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
I mean we could you know?
Speaker 1 (46:25):
it's funny we're talking about this because
during the pandemic I startedlistening to true crime podcast
and architectural podcast, alldifferent sorts, and that's kind
of when I said oh wow, I thinkI'd like to do a podcast on
association issues.
But yeah, maybe for a differenttime we can talk about killers.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
But there's other people that they just don't
align with our salespeople.
I've known some salespeople thatdo incredible numbers and I
have zero respect for them and Ialways say you know, and I
worked with another guy weinterviewed a guy from my old
company up in DC and I was bestfriends with the owners and so
we took the guy golf and he wasa great golfer and we're in Greg
(47:07):
.
The owner says Kelly, what doyou think?
Do you think we should hire me?
Because he's nothing like you?
I said, yeah, what do you think, do you think we should hire
him?
He goes, he's nothing like you.
I said, yeah, I think he'd beperfect for us.
He was, but now that's he'skind of a weird example because
he was a great salesman but hedid it completely different than
the way I approach clients, buthe was, but he still was honest
, as the day is long.
Now, if that guy there's otherpeople that we talked to and we
didn't necessarily take themgolfing to see if they were
(47:28):
going to interview, but it's agreat way to thank somebody and
the reason we hired that one guyI said, listen, I don't care if
he's good or not, we're goingto win tournaments with this guy
.
But, with that being said, somepeople can be really bad people
but really successful at whatthey do and I don't want to have
any.
I don't want anything to dowith him.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Well, I actually feel the same way.
Let me ask you who's your dream?
Speaker 3 (47:54):
you guys have a dream guest in mind, just a really,
if you could get this person onyour podcast I can't say his
last name, but for me it's nickthe guy with no arms and no legs
and I've actually been in talkswith him and hopefully we will
eventually get him on the show.
Do you know who he is?
I do not he's, he's the.
He's the number one speaker inthe world, but a lot of people I
mean, he has no arms, no legs,born that way, wow, and real
handsome guy.
He's got a wife and a few kids,um, and he's come through and
(48:17):
his story will break your heartand also you'll make him, make
you love him forever.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
So hopefully maybe send him this podcast.
That's your dream guest, waynedream guest.
You ever given any thought?
Speaker 2 (48:29):
yeah, um, I'd really like the CEO of Lifetime Fitness
.
When I lived in Minnesota,their corporate headquarters was
called Chanhassen.
I lived in a suburb right nextto it called Chaska, but the
place I would work out wasLifetime Fitness and I knew the
owner.
He started out pushing a broomat US Swim and Fitness, which
(48:53):
was a big chain of clubs.
He came over with his family in1979 during the Iranian
revolution.
That happened and forced a lotof Iranians to move to the
United States.
He started with nothing and heruns a fitness empire.
So I'd actually talked to himat one time in the club because
(49:15):
he would work out there.
He'd just be among all of usand he was pretty close to
coming on.
I talked to his assistant andunfortunately it didn't work out
.
But the people I mean you showme a strong person, you know,
and I'll show you someone thatdidn't have a choice, right, and
I refuse to believe that thecommon person can't move a
(49:39):
mountain, because we've seen it.
Dude comes in here and canspeak English, right, he's
pushing a broom and all of asudden he's the CEO of the
largest I'm going to call itlow-based fitness center in the
United States.
There's a lot of them inFlorida.
Okay, they opened up a new onein Tampa Lifetime Fitness.
He would be my dream guest justbecause of-.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Hey, listen, my guy had no arms and no legs and
you're just talking about some-.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Listen, I hope you both get your dream guests.
See, I've gotten my dreamguests because you're on the
show today.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
So I thought for sure .
Speaker 3 (50:16):
Wayne was going to go .
Well, you already have.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yeah, but I think Donna could see through that
line of BS.
No.
I just want to tell you.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
You said women were good.
You said women were goodsalespeople.
There you go.
Oh, that's right.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
We gave one, but for the next 52 weeks weeks we've
got incredible people lined uppeople on this, but it really
we've.
It's amazing how many greatguests we've had you gotta try
to get.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
You gotta try to get steve on your podcast because he
is.
He's a lot of fun and he is soknowledgeable.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
It's just that his schedule is crazy it is, and I,
I, we better get him on at somepoint.
But, um, you know, I like toget him and james at the same
time.
I think they could, you know,buddy, buddy together.
So that's four gonna have agood time.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
But steven, he's steve lexler would be a great.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
I I'm already gotta walk the line because I, I'm,
I'm like, I think he's like sogreat at what he does.
I don't want people to thinkthat there's anything except for
I just think, think he's great.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
It's a fan episode.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Yeah, We've had a lot of our dream guests have been
on the show so truly withoutkissing our guests in the past.
We really have been pleased.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
You have listen for everybody who's listening to
this podcast.
Their podcast is fantastic.
I love it and they should.
They should come and visit andyou're.
You're out every week.
I don't know how you do that.
I'm out twice a month.
That's like enough for me.
So it's very ambitious that youguys put out content weekly.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
Sometimes it's easier than others to to make it
happen, but we we had agentleman who was a quadriplegic
in high school who now he'smarried with a beautiful wife
and kid and runs his ownbusiness.
I mean, I hate to brag, but ourguests are amazing, it's just
amazing.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
All right.
So you guys, I've kept you solong.
I want to ask you one lastquestion each, and I've never
asked a guest this questionbefore.
But I'm going to start with.
Wayne.
You're writing your memoir.
What's the title?
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Here's what it is.
There's one of my favoritelover boy songs of the 1980s.
It's called Loving Every Minuteof it, so the title is Loving
Every Minute of it.
The Rise, Fall and Rise of aSales Superstar.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Wow, I'd buy that book.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Thank you, and so yeah, I mean I don't know if I'd
like that book.
But actually kept a diary myentire senior year in high
school, so I have the diligenceof being able to chronicle parts
of my life that I've kept andthen to be able to fill out the
rest of the stuff that happenedsince 1984, that would be in the
(52:49):
book and then the title of itis just what I said.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
You should do it.
I hope you give some thought tothat.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Well, there's no thought in it.
I just don't know when I'mgoing to be able to write the
last chapter, because they keepgetting bigger and bigger as I
get older and older.
So but it will.
Pen to pen, will be put topaper the old school way at some
point.
Thank you for asking.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
If you do it, I want an autographed copy.
I'm so scared to actually askKelly for the name of what his
memoir would be after seeing theself-reported biography he sent
me, but I'm going to do itanyhow.
I'm going to be brave, Kelly.
What would the title of yourmemoir be?
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Well, I just thought of it about five seconds ago,
but it'd be called Making theBest of my Dash.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Making the Best of my Dash, making the Best of your
Dash Dash.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
I love quizzes, I love word games, I love trivia
and all that stuff.
What's the dash?
I was born on April 17, 1963.
Dash, the dash is your life.
That's very clever, that iscool Making the Best of my
clever.
(53:55):
That is cool.
That is very cool Making thebest of my dash.
I like that.
Guys.
I love my life.
I've had the most incrediblelife.
Hopefully there's still a lotleft in it, but I never have a
bad day.
I only have bad moments and now, fortunately, since I live two
blocks from the beach, if I'mhaving a bad moment, I just walk
over to the beach, take a lookat it for a couple seconds and I
head back to work.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Guys, Wayne, Kelly, thanks so much for joining us
today.
Have a good one.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Thank you so much for having us.
I appreciate it.
Donna, Take care Bye.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to follow and rateus on your favorite podcast
platform or visit Take.
Hi everyone.
I'm attorney DonnaDiMaggio-Berger, and this is
Take it to the Board where wespeak condo and HOA.
Today I'm thrilled to be joinedby two industry veterans who
have spent years navigating thecomplex world of community
associations.
With their extensive experience, they've likely seen it all
every challenge, every triumphand everything in between.
(00:23):
Get ready for a deep dive intothe stories, insights and
lessons they've gathered alongthe way.
Wayne Searson has been withAmerican Building Contractors
for 23 years.
Prior to that, he was aninsurance adjuster for a major
insurance company for 10 yearsand has worked on so many
weather-related disasters he'slost count.
After living in the Midwest forhis entire life, he has
(00:44):
relocated to New Smyrna Beachwhere he currently resides.
Now, kelly Kuhn has spent alifetime in sales, business
development and marketing.
He's currently the co-founderand partner of premier owners
representative projectmanagement firm LaGreca
Consultants LGC, primarilyserving South Florida.
Kelly is involved with severalnonprofits in South Florida and,
(01:05):
with 55 years of playingrecreational golf, he tells me
he's still a below averageplayer.
He may want to listen to apodcast episode we just taped
with Eric Larson.
He's a world-renowned golfcourse designer.
That's coming out before thisepisode so I'm hoping maybe he
tunes in.
Maybe Eric has some tips forhim.
Kelly is also the Kelly in theIndustry Focus podcast, wayne's
(01:27):
World, and Kelly, obviously,wayne Searson is the Wayne in
Wayne's World.
So my guests today appear onLinkedIn, facebook and YouTube
every Wednesday for the last 105weeks of their podcast.
It'll be more by the time thisepisode comes out.
And I have to say I was honoredto be a guest on that podcast
twice.
So with that, guys, welcome toTake it to the Board.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thank you, Donna Great to be here Great to be
here yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I'm excited to have you guys here and I've never had
a fellow podcaster.
You know what?
That's not true.
I have Marcia Narine Weldon.
Professor Weldon also has apodcast, you're my second
podcasters on this pod Honored.
Thank you, Wayne.
You're a fellow Midwesternerlike me.
Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Grew up in Eau Claire , Wisconsin, and went to college
at Minnesota State University,Mankato, which is a smaller
southern located university partof the Minnesota State
University school system, and soI was there until my wife and I
moved to New Smyrna Beach abouttwo years ago.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I'm hearing the accent.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Right you can never get rid of.
Was there until my wife and Imoved to New Smyrna.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Beach about two years ago.
I'm hearing the accent Right.
You can never get rid of it,Although I don't have.
I'm from Chicago.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I don't have an accent, do I no?
No, actually you do not.
I would have never guessed thatat all.
You, you don't you could be.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
you could be an anchor woman, right?
Because that's what they lookfor.
Is no accent?
No, exactly, Just innondescript accent.
So I want to start with you,Wayne.
So you worked as a contractorand an insurance adjuster for
years.
You've dealt with naturaldisasters.
What has that history taughtyou about human resilience?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, I'll tell you what I mean as a first responder
for Hurricane Ian.
First of all, under a quote,unquote.
You know, I guess I wasn'tthere immediately because it
took me two days to get out ofmy community in New Smyrna Beach
and then to navigate all theway to Ground Zero.
You know, in the Punta Gordaarea of Fort Myers.
I got to tell you, don, I'venever seen anything like it.
(03:18):
You see pictures, you know.
You see stuff on the news, butwhen you are there and you are
supposed to inspect a buildingthat isn't there anymore, when
you see people walking aimlessly, when you see the only people
out there that are working andshoveling crap up so you can get
back in there very emotional,I'd like everybody that hears
(03:39):
this podcast to give a littlebit of more respect for some of
these folks that are puttingthis stuff back together to
really even get in there.
Human resilience everybodykeeps moving on, but the process
has taken so long.
Now there's people still tothis day that haven't been able
to get back in because of theinsurance industry and how
gummed up I want to make sure Idon't say any other phrase, but
(04:03):
gummed up part of what we'relooking at.
People are very resilient, so Imean it's all good on that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
You know, I just recently taped an episode with
Dr Jesse Sparrow on CERTs theCommunity Emergency Response
Teams and we talked about thatthe type of people like yourself
who are the first ones to getthere and help people.
I think it takes a special typeof person who's willing to rush
into the burning building or gointo the communities that have
been devastated.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, look, I want to make sure that you all
understand that.
You know I am obviously not inthat category.
Okay, you know I'm there tolook at properties, to inspect
them and to drone them, but Isee what happens.
There's a climate of fear thatyou can feel.
You can taste the seawaterlevels that rose so dramatically
.
You see cars where they're notsupposed to be.
(04:52):
You see everything destroyed.
It literally is like zombieapocalypse.
So to me, some of the biggestheroes by far were Florida Power
and Light.
I remember being on the roadtrying to get over to where I
needed to be and you see thesemassive convoys of FPL trucks
coming over the horizon andyou're just like, yeah, because
(05:12):
you know what.
If there's one thing Americacan do right, we can do
logistics right.
Okay, got a lot of problemsgoing on right now, but you know
what?
Logistics isn't one of them.
And the heroes that I saw wereFPL and the workers that were
removing all the debris to getthings in motion.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Were you an independent public adjuster,
Wayne, or working for aninsurance company?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I worked for a major insurance company.
That is correct.
I was never an IA, no, I wasstaff.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
So post-casualty were people real happy to see you.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Absolutely.
They were very happy to see mebecause they knew that I was
part of the solution.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Okay, then you'd get the ball rolling for them to
recover.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Get the ball rolling for them for recovery and I know
we can kind of touch on this aswe keep going along One of the
major things I found is thatthat recovery process has taken
a lot more time than it used to.
I mean, we are in a really badsituation now.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Now, why is that?
Is that because there's justcasualty after casualty?
We don't seem to have as muchbreathing room between disasters
these days.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, I'd say that's a big part of it.
You look at the wildfires outwest.
You look at Tornado Alley inthe Midwest.
You look at everything that'sbeen going on with the
hurricanes down in Florida.
You remember Superstorm Sandythat went all the way up the
eastern seaboard, right?
So nobody's getting a pause.
The insurance companies maketheir money on reinvestments of
(06:38):
premiums.
Okay, they're not getting thatreturn on.
With the stock market being sovolatile, reinsurers have been
hammered by trying to pick upthe cost.
You've got citizens in thestate of Florida.
The biggest thing that we havefound out I just said I found
out in my career since day onehas been what we call the three
Ds that the insurance companiespractice delay, deny, defend.
(07:00):
You take all of those together,you throw in what we're in
right now with any majordisaster and that's what we're
getting Delay, deny, defend, 3dsand we all know them.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So the IAs, the independent adjusters, like to
paint you guys, the adjustersfor the insurance companies, as
the bad guys.
There's a perception out therejust what you said that
insurance companies are notmaking it easier.
You know, all theseassociations have paid for their
coverage and then, when itcomes time to actually make a
claim, it's not so easy.
Is that an accurate perception,wayne?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, it's very accurate.
I think that it started outkind of early on in my career
was with what upper underwritingstandards that the insurance
companies were lazy on?
Ok, prior to drone technologyand everything, they were kind
of throwing numbers up onvaluations of the buildings that
could have been older orwhatever.
That was kind of the beginningof when we knew that there were
some problems because of the laxunderwriting standards.
(07:56):
Okay, and so I've been askedthat throughout my career is hey
, were you ever under any ordersfrom the insurance company not
to give a fair settlement?
Well, the answer to that is no,not under my tenure.
However, things really reallyreally became clear and apparent
actually with that expose thatthe Washington Post published,
(08:18):
maybe about six months after Ian, where Heritage was caught in
fraudulent claims.
Where Heritage was caught infraudulent claims and I sent you
the link and I highly encourageyou to post that okay, because
that ripped open everything thatwe kind of knew, kind of
suspected, but yet you knowthere was an adjuster that was a
whistleblower for this.
(08:38):
Okay, I encourage everybody tofind this, if Donna doesn't put
the link on just GoogleWashington Post Hurricane Ian
Fraud.
We'll put it in the show notes,yeah oh yeah, you're gonna see
that claims were due 80, wherethe folks at Heritage actually
re rejiggered the estimates.
Okay, they fraudulently didthat and and this was a landmark
(09:01):
, landmark, expose.
Now everybody, now everybodyknows, ok, there's no, there's
no, there's no backing away fromwhat we all know now.
Ok, because now, now it's real.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
We find this in a number of different industries.
Wayne, if you don'tself-regulate, then government
comes in and regulates you,Right?
So in the aftermath of thatexpose, the Washington Post
expose did the insuranceindustry take any steps to
self-regulate?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Well, I mean, it's all word salad, right.
I mean we're looking into it.
You know the state of Floridais doing an investigation.
Look, one thing that's kind ofbaffling to me with what I've
noticed since I've been workinghurricanes here in Florida since
2002 and on, you know, likewith all the alphabet, Eugene,
William, Francis, all that stuffthat raked Florida.
I worked them all OK andFlorida doesn't seem to be that
(09:48):
consumer friendly of a state.
Because I know that in othermarkets I work in, particularly
in Minnesota, is if you get acomplaint filed against you as
an adjuster and it goes rightaway to the Department of
Commerce, the Department ofCommerce opens up a file, OK,
and you need to answer that.
The branch claims manager needsto officially answer that
within a very short period oftime.
(10:08):
So he or she is coming to youfor answers right away.
Not really sure why.
That doesn't really seem to bethat prevalent in Florida.
I don't really see it and Idon't understand.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Well, maybe we get you up to Tallahassee to testify
next session.
Talk a little bit about whatthey think they're doing with
insurance reforms.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I mean all of the homeowners here.
I mean we live here, this isour home, it's my home now and
you know I'm like everybody else, man, I'm dreading what's
coming.
Okay, I really am.
You got Beryl, you got Debbie,you know the engine's getting
all revved up and ready to go.
We all know it and for thefirst time in my career, I'll be
honest with you.
You know I'm really not thatexcited about it, because I know
(10:46):
what everybody's going to face.
Ian was probably the worst thatI faced, and that even includes
Katrina, because Ian blew ahole right through when it made
ground zero in Punta Gorda andwent literally like 500 miles
and landed right on my doorstepin New Smyrna Beach.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Do you think people are getting fatigued with again?
The storms are coming morefrequently.
They're getting stronger, itseems.
Do you think people arebecoming fatigued, or are they
still pretty proactive when itcomes to storm prep?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
They're not proactive at all like I want to see them.
I know that when I give my CEcredit and I evangelize into the
management companies, I go intoabout the importance of a
priority service agreement withanybody.
Get on a list.
Okay, I don't care if it's mylist, but you got to get on one,
because the people that win arethe ones that sign a PSA and
they get on a list and they gettaken care of faster than
(11:38):
anybody that's not on a PSA.
This is the first year in 20some years that I've seen that
there seems to be more of asense of dread or a sense of
urgency.
But they kind of play theaverages, right.
I mean, there's really nowhereto hide.
Like I said, wildfires, west,tornado alley, midwest
hurricanes here, east down,everywhere.
(11:59):
If you think about itstatistically speaking, your
chances of being involved in anatural disaster and being
affected by it they're notreally that great.
Ok, weather is sensationalized.
It's something we all talkabout.
Ok, a lot of us make our livingon it, right?
But yet people are willing toroll the dice because you know
what, donna, life's pretty shortand I'm not going to really
(12:21):
worry about something that Ihave no idea if it's going to
affect me, that's very true andI think not going to really
worry about something that Ihave no idea if it's going to
affect me, but it's out there,that's very true and I think
it's starting to have apotential impact on tourism.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You know, florida is our economy primarily based on
tourism, and now we've got asix-month hurricane season and
I've heard people saying I don'tknow if we should I don't know
who's, by the way, I don't knowwho's vacationing here in August
and July.
Well, that's all season.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Anyway, donna, I'm going to jump in for a second
because that's what I alwayshave to do.
I think I didn't put a lot ofstuff in my bio.
I just tricked you up because Iwrote a bunch of goofy things.
I was wondering what you wouldsay.
I was a hurricane chaser and Iwas in the water damage
restoration business for anumber of years, and so I was
down in New Orleans, I was downin Nashville, and so two things
(13:11):
First of all, wayne's a rookieat being.
It's a different perspectivewhen you live here versus when
you live up north, so you lookat it different.
But when I went to Nashvilleexactly what Wayne said I liked
it.
Things need to be human, and Ithink one of the things that all
three of us are, is we're?
very human.
We're not robotic.
We're very involved with ourcommunities.
When we pulled into Nashvilleand I saw the devastation, I
worked on commercial buildingswhen I was in the restoration
(13:32):
business.
So when I saw all these homesand we're driving through and
you see, like a little kid,stuffed animal, on a nine foot
pile of stuff, I was physicallyill.
And then we actually found achurch.
I was working with A1 FloodTech my friends up in DC, so
they're my family and we found achurch that had no money and no
insurance and we arrived toolate to Nashville so we had no
(13:55):
customer.
So we did it for free and wetook and we did their building.
It was an amazing experiencefor everybody.
And then a couple of weekslater we got a flood in
Baltimore.
That was somewhere around$800,000 in revenue, so it kind
of worked out pretty well for us.
We paid it forward and it gotpaid forward back to us.
But at the end of the day,everything we do whether it's a
legal issue, an insurance issue,a restoration issue these are
(14:20):
all people and we have toremember that.
Because I'll tell you one thingthat's problem in Florida is
Florida is really bad.
I know really good people thatwill call me and want to do
things that aren't correct, andI go.
I want to be any part of it.
A lot of times it's our househas nothing to do with my
business.
But they're like can you tellme how I can make this claim to
where they're going to replacemy kitchen, even though I have a
(14:41):
leak in my backyard?
So the problem goes everywhere.
It's the public adjusters, it'sthe insurance companies, it's
the claimers, everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, that example you just used, Kelly, is what
the legislature relied upon tosay, hey, we need tort reform
because there's a lot of fraudin these claims, which there was
, Remember I talked about.
If you don't regulate yourself,it becomes a problem.
And when I talk about that,that's the legal industry,
that's the public adjustingindustry, you name it, banking,
(15:10):
you name it.
But that was the example thatthey relied upon.
But that was only one of theproblems that has led to
exorbitant premiums in the stateof Florida and elsewhere too.
I mean, frankly, it is ourgeographic vulnerability.
You know, regardless of claims,there are plenty of.
Frankly, it is that it is ourgeographic vulnerability.
You know, regardless of claims,there are plenty of people that
(15:30):
plenty of legitimate claimsthat were also underpaid or
denied and the people just sortof, the associations just sort
of went away and they shoulderedthe economic burden themselves
rather than fighting back with abad faith claim.
But, Kelly, I'm glad you jumpedin, because I was really
excited to have you on thepodcast, because you have told
me you can sell just aboutanything to anyone and we all
provide services, OK, peopleaccuse me of that.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I don't, I don't say that.
I think that was.
I think that was self-reportedKelly, but OK.
I was just repeating the claim.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That being said, all of us do work in this industry
for a long time, but people haveto know about us, so we still
have to sell to a certain extent.
So, in your opinion, what doyou think are the hallmarks of a
great salesman or saleswoman?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Right A salesperson, let's just know Salesperson.
Yes, Well, I'll tell you what.
First of all, women.
I've always understood thatwomen were better salespeople
than men.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And I'll tell you why , really?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Oh, women were better salespeople than men and I'll
tell you yep, oh yeah, I agreewith kelly yep, and I don't say
that, I'm not kissing up toanybody, you know and I don't
know I could that, but womenhave a nurturing one.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
They're.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
They're the moms of the world, so mom's not going to
rip me off.
Dad, you know I've seen himgolf he's, he's using that foot
wedge and everything else yeah,the foot wedge yeah.
So there's honestly you have to.
I, I have a salesman'spersonality.
I got it, so does wayne, so doyou, um, even though you're
you're selling law, but you areand sometimes you got to
(16:56):
overcome that.
So, because a lot of peoplejust think automatically kelly's
a salesman now with our company, lgc um, as an owner's rep, I'm
most anti-sale because I'malways starting from the very
beginning.
I'm telling all the bad thingsthat will happen and then how
we're going to handle it.
But I think the secret to anysuccessful salesperson is sell
(17:18):
something.
That's great.
I never was that good, but Ialways sell the right products
or service or people.
And now I basically I sellpeople.
I sell the team at LGC, whichthey're handpicked by George
James and I, and they're allgreat and I'm not bragging, it's
just a fact.
But if you, I can't sell acrappy.
You know a salesman can sell toanybody, like the old ice to
(17:40):
the Eskimo.
First of all, I wouldn't evendo it.
An Eskimo doesn't need to buyice from me.
But I don't want anybody everto buy anything that they don't
want or need, and I think that'sthe key to all of it.
But once again, the women areso much better at this than we
are.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Selling is a science and an art, would we all agree.
But to your point, you have tobe authentic.
So, yeah, there are peoplethere's actually law firms that
hire business development people, but if you're not in the
trenches, you don't know theproduct, you don't know the
service.
I think it's a harder sales job.
You know, let's talk about that.
We've got a lot of differentphilosophies in the association
(18:25):
industry.
Does going to a cocktail partyhelp?
Does going to a trade show help?
In my opinion, it's really aboutbeing a problem solver, and
this may be different, but Ithink we're all solving problems
, right?
You're working on construction,wayne is too, and he's helping
with insurance claims.
We're solving our customers'and clients' problems.
So, to me, the best and I don'teven know if it's sales, but
it's really getting in therewith a potential client and
(18:46):
working and letting them seewhat it would be like to work
with you if they actually hiredyou.
And I know there's a lot ofdifferent philosophies about
this, but I think the bottomline is you need to be authentic
.
You need to have experiencedwhat you're telling your
potential customer or clientthey need to do.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Everything that you said is correct.
Client, they need to doEverything that you said is
correct.
Just briefly, back to Kelly'spoint about who's a better sales
rep a man or a woman.
100% agree with Kelly it'swomen, for the reasons he stated
.
Now there's one thing that youmissed regarding the first two,
I think qualifications that arenecessary for a successful
salesperson, or what itencompasses.
(19:22):
Kelly and I talk about this allthe time.
What we do is performance basedokay, Meaning, when you saw me
at the Castle Group's trade showyesterday, I was performing.
Okay.
You right now are performingokay.
When Kelly and I are doing ourpodcast, we are performing.
So people might be thinking, ohso what are you doing is fake?
No, it's not.
When we go to that conference,we have to be on.
(19:44):
When we're talking to ourclients, we have to be on.
What does that mean?
Asking them questions andlistening.
When I get done with all ofthat and I go back to my hotel
room or come home, I'm very,very tired.
So I believe the authentic part, along with Kelly's comment
about working for a world-class,national-class company that you
believe in, you know veryimportant in being your true,
(20:06):
authentic Okay.
I think those things make up agreat sales representative in
their skills that everybody canlearn Okay.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You talked about nice shoes too.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Nice shoes.
Okay, I got that covered.
I had him on for the 50thepisode and I said what are two?
What's something peoplewouldn't guess about me?
He said you're a great cook andyou're like Imelda Marcos with
your shoes.
I'm like, well, I think peopleprobably would have guessed the
shoes thing, maybe not thecookie.
I want to circle back to whatWayne said tired after
(20:37):
performance.
So I've done the same thingwebinars, seminars, classes.
We do board member boot camp.
I've done keynote speeches.
You're right, it's drainingafterwards, is that?
Because I've often wondered arewe really introverts and we're
drained after we're out there?
Because I think a completeextrovert would be charged up
(21:01):
after a performance.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
To be engaged with people would be charged up after
a performance.
What do you think To be engagedwith people and I love what
Wayne said we're all threeprofessional talkers and I think
we're all three good listenersyou have to really listen and
process what people are sayingand then be quick.
To me, that takes a lot ofenergy out of me.
People don't realize how muchit takes out of you when I do
presentations.
It's exhausting and I've alwaysthought it was interesting when
(21:24):
certain owners that I've workedfor in the past before I was an
actual owner and I've kind ofgotten into that is they expect
you to just keep on rockingafter you've done a presentation
and you're keyed up in theright way, and the whole idea is
for people not to realize thatyou're keyed up, but it's
exhausting.
But another thing you mentionedwas about networking and how
important is that.
(21:45):
I did it.
I started a dinner here aboutfive years ago in South Florida
and I had an invitation of only20 people.
Everybody paid for their ownmeal because I'm very much into
nobody buying anybody'sattention and we got usually 15
to 20 people that would show upevery month and everybody was
engaged and the whole idea wasyou earned your way in and then
(22:07):
you earned your way to stay andsome people were not invited
back at a certain point becausethey were questionable on how
they did things.
So I thought we were a reallygood Brommer.
So that group, even though Idisbanded it I don't know, maybe
over a year ago because it justit was just too much and I was
hoping somebody would take overand he didn't.
But all of us and we hadprobably 40, 50 people run
(22:27):
through that group over thattime and we're all super
connected and the big thing isyou help people.
You know I know a guy, I know agal.
You know I want to get introuble with that one, but if I
know so many people and peoplecall me up and I don't care if
I'm going to make a dime off itor not.
I love connecting people Rightand that's extremely important.
So our happy hour is importantvery well, but if you don't
(22:50):
drink at them or if you do, youmoderate or you can make
yourself a laughing stock of thecommunity, you know, and also
you keep it professional andfriendly.
But I think networking isunbelievably important.
Love trade shows if you do itcorrectly.
If you sit away and just waitfor people to like throw buckets
of money on you, it's not goingto work.
(23:10):
If you try to sit there andtell them everything about your
business, it's not going to work.
All you're doing is buildingthat quick connection.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, you also have during the trade shows.
You also have a line of peopleand if you're spending 40
minutes talking, to one person.
I've seen it happen.
The other people just wanderoff because they can't wait that
long.
So you're right, you have tomake a quick connection.
I did want to say you know whatit's also tiring is.
We all prepare, you know.
You don't just go to do awebinar or a class or a
(23:39):
presentation.
You know on the fly.
There's thought the bestpresentations are the ones where
the presenters have clearlyprepared, they know their
material, they've given thoughtto who's in the audience.
That all takes time and effort.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Well, I think Wayne has a twist on that, which I
would agree.
Let me say for Wayne, if youknow your subject matter, the
preparation's been for me 61years.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
So on that one.
Now, if you's doing somethingmore defined you wait wait, wait
, 61.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Were you doing this in utero?
I was.
My mom said I came out talking.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Wait, wait, and that's true.
You told me you're the.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You're the youngest of nine children right right she
just kept going until you saidshe got it right my mom said she
was trying to reach perfectionand she said she did, and my
father said they were afraidwhat they're going to have next.
So it's all perspective.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Look, I'm one of four and I thought I came from a big
family, but one of nine, that's.
That's just absolutely crazy.
Well, and one last thing on theon the women are better.
Listen, I could hear that allday, so you know you can keep up
with that.
But I used to be a lobbyist andI will tell you, going to
Tallahassee, it was an advantage, I could get into meetings and
(24:52):
it wasn't a problem.
But you need to know yourself.
OK gender is not going to getyou anywhere if you don't know
your stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Women still always have to prove themselves,
probably a little bit more thanmen, but I think it's easy for
them because y'all are trulybetter.
But you know five sisters thatwere awesome.
Three brothers, mom awesome,and so that was awesome too.
But honest to God, I get soannoyed when people try to do a
gender thing At our company.
You would think that we weredoing it on purpose, because I
(25:21):
think we're close to 50-50, maleand female, and they're all
great.
But we're very selective on whothey are and who we bring in.
I don't care what they are, aslong as they're just great
people, honest people and have adesire to bring something to
the table and keep it there.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
So let's talk about your company.
Let's talk about what you do.
You do project management.
All of these communities rightnow, particularly the older
coastal ones, are allfrenetically undertaking long
delayed and deferred maintenanceand repair projects.
So what do you think aboutboard members and managers who
try to do what your company does, which is serve as project
(25:59):
manager on these large projects?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
So we're a project manager, owner's rep.
And the owner's rep we alwayssay is critical thinking and
that's a huge aspect.
A lot of people can project,manage and get you through some
steps and usually they're notleading, they're following, but
they're getting everything done.
So I do like to make thatdistinction.
A community association manager, a CAM, manages the association
(26:23):
.
They don't know construction.
And then I love it when you'vegot people that are from other
parts of the country that thinkthey can actually be an owner's
rep because they actuallyreplaced their sink in their
trailer, you know, 30 years ago.
Plus, there's a liability, aboard should govern, and some of
our best clients are engineers,architects, attorneys,
(26:46):
developers.
They understand it and they'refirst to say we have to get an
owner's rep.
So I think they're the bestexamples.
It's the ones that think theyknow so much I worry about.
And also, when it comes to acam, some of them are afraid
they're going to lose their jobif they don't do it.
Some of them think you just putthree bids out and take the
lowest price and that's theright one, and they don't know
what they're asking for.
(27:06):
So it's sort of like if youasked us to come in there and
manage via CAM.
You know our guys, our team'sbrilliant, but I don't think
they'd bode well doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
But you know, a lot of the management contracts do
require the boards to hire themanager to serve as project
manager on the construction.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
We normally see that a lot more.
I don't see it on our level,but we're doing 5 million to $40
million projects.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I mean I see it as standard in some of the
boilerplate contracts that saysif there's a large construction
or repair maintenance project, xpercentage goes to the
management company to handle theproject management.
I normally take that out andsay, if we want you, we'll let
you know.
But listen, you need to it's inmy opinion you need a safety
(27:52):
net.
So you need the board needs torely on various professionals to
create those safety nets whenthey are undertaking large
projects and project managementowner's rep.
You know, undertaking largeprojects and project management
owner's rep.
That's one where when I hearthat you know Jerry, the retired
contractor on the board, isgoing to be the owner's rep, it
gives me some pause.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Right.
It turns out he's a drywallcontractor.
You know, my number one way ofgetting business is executives
from all the different projectmanagement companies saying, hey
, we want you to come in and bidon this project.
So I'm disappointed that that'shappening on these contracts
and I love that you just exitout, because that makes no sense
.
I can see where some companieswant to derive that extra
(28:37):
revenue, but what they're doingis they're setting themselves up
for a disaster.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Well, yeah, I don.
I don't think the cam should beoverseeing the construction,
but there is additional burdenon the cams in terms of
scheduling, especially for largeprojects.
For that I think you can bakein some flexible pricing that
would.
That would address thatadditional burden on the cam.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
There's some demands.
But all that coordination,everything should be handled by
the good owner's rep firm.
They should not be leaning onthem.
The cam's already overworked.
I don't know very many camsthat are good, that are winging
it.
They're like oh, I can come inhere and do this in 20 hours a
week and I charge them for it.
Their demands are usuallypretty high.
(29:20):
So to ask them to do it, we doour best to have a great
relationship with them, keepthem in the know, but keep the
extra work down to a minimum forthem.
And if there is extra work andthere's a payment to the company
for that, I wouldn't disagreewith that, because there's
definitely.
Whenever a project like that'sgoing on, they're getting knocks
on the door a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So the one thing that everyone's going to want me to
ask you, as project manager orowner's rep, is what can you do
to prevent cost overruns on theproject?
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Well, the biggest thing is scope definition.
You have to design itcompletely and have everything
out there.
We do when we're doingcontracts with all the
participants, we always do aboveand below the line.
We know this is going to happenon this project.
We don't know this is going tohappen and also set up
contingencies that are realistic.
But on a concrete restoration,which a lot of the work is, you
(30:13):
don't know what it's going tocost until it's done, and that's
just reality.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Because it's a per unit based contract.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Right, exactly, and so you want to make sure you set
up the numbers correctly andwe're really good at defining
that.
A lot of times the board willsay, well, we're going to give
the engineers, we're going toallow them to look at 3% of the
building and then we're going tohave them come up with what
they want.
And we're like man, you know,let's hit this building hard.
The more preparation on anyproject is going to give a
(30:41):
better outcome as well.
Let's you know you slow up togo fast and a lot of people they
want to just hit the groundrunning because they're already
behind the eight ball of tryingto get things done.
Everything's in the planningand in the pre-construction and
that will make the constructiongo well.
And having somebody that's doingif you hire a company that's
got two or three projects goingon at any time, they don't see
(31:03):
enough.
That's out there going on Withus and other companies of our
size, we're doing 10, 15projects at a time.
We really understand the pulseof what's going on in the
industry and I think that'sextremely valuable.
You'll never get that out ofyour.
I don't care how good your camis, they're never going to have
the knowledge that a goodcompany is going to know about
what's going on in the industry.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Well, you know my partner, Steve Lesser, who heads
up our construction lawdepartment.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I was just going to mention that I was going to say
and it's so important to get aconstruction attorney and Steve
Lesser I'm sure enough peoplehave heard me say it Steve is
incredible, you know, andthere's a lot of good attorneys
out there, but he is the man.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, he's the titan in the industry, for sure, he
really is.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
He is and a lot of people that have worked with him
in the past.
What a great education theyhave by working with him.
If you don't give us all themechanisms to go after the
contractor or whoever, or thearchitect, the engineer, if we
don't have all the teeth in thatcontract, then we've got
nothing.
And a cam attorney isn't thatassociation attorney is not
equipped as well.
A smart one's going to saylet's turn it over to our
construction.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Well, that's what I do.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Or go outside of our company and do it.
So there's a lot of goodassociations.
Go straight to.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Steve, if it comes to me.
So that's what, that's what Ido.
And he and listen.
We just taped Steve.
I'm going to put a link to hisepisode in the show notes, but
he talked at length aboutcompanies like yours, using
owner's rep and projectmanagement.
So, wayne, you've been quietfor a while.
I want to ask you, becausewe've never seen so many angry
people in these communityassociations.
(32:38):
I mean, there's always been.
Listen, you're not going tomake everybody happy, but given
the economic challenges, giventhe changes in the law, there's
been a trend towards increasedincivility for years now.
What, what?
I know you don't have a crystalball, but do you have any
predictions?
You know, sometimes mygrandmother used to say the
(32:59):
pendulum swings very far in onedirection and then it always
swings back.
Well, are we going to get outof this mess anytime soon?
Speaker 2 (33:06):
No, and I'll tell you why.
When, when, when we were oh boyOK, can you soften it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Boy, my God.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Right, so it's.
It's certainly been on adownward trend for so long.
I think the worst I've everseen it was when when we were
interviewing for a lot, for alot of projects with the boards
for Hurricane Ian relatedprojects and I'm on a board
myself, so I mean I understandwhat the obligations and the
duties are.
Right, it's always beencertainly an eye opener to be
(33:38):
able to be on a board.
Okay, ok, and one thing I foundout is that the skills that
people accumulate when they're,when when they're out in sector,
most of the board folks areretired, they get on the board
and, man, they just can't waitto you know, to tell you their
skill set and everything theydid and how, how they believe
(34:00):
that the skills are transferable.
From what I did, you know, inprivate industry and now I can
handle it because, oh, I'm juston a board here the arrogance,
the dismissive attitudes towardscontractors and folks that are
just wanting an opportunity, youknow, to put the community back
together again, like knowingmore than I do when maybe they
(34:22):
were a suit, you know, atGeneral Motors or Pillsbury or
something, and I just sit thereand I'm just looking at these
people saying we're going tohelp you.
Okay, and this is a Q&A goingback and forth right, I want to
put your community back togetheragain.
So tell you that maybe it didpeak.
As far as bad behavior and howwe were treated during Hurricane
(34:43):
Ian, I'm not so sure.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Did you feel like the hired help when you were being
there?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
It was just flat out A lot of it just being just
disrespected, not listening toour answers on questions.
When we go into a board meeting, man, we are prepared Again.
I've seen all this for 23 years.
Right, there's not one disasterI have been through, but the
decline of the civility, of thebehavior for everybody, I think
(35:13):
is just emblematic of what'sgoing on in the country.
So maybe board behavior willimprove when we all improve.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Oh God, from from?
Yeah, hopefully I hear you whatyou're saying because I see it
in board meetings.
There is in some communities,especially on the board there
can be a level of eitherdefensiveness or, as you said,
arrogance.
It happens and it's verydifficult when you've got that
personality type on the board.
(35:41):
I also find that sometimes theperson who's taking the lead on
communications with vendors isthe least well-suited to that
task not a good communicator.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
I definitely agree with you, look, I mean we can
all give the analogies.
Kelly gave one early about notunderstanding what it would be
like to be a cam, so why wouldhe insert himself into being a
cam role, right?
So a lot of the behavior thatwe have found is when we give a
(36:13):
professional answer about howwe're going to put this
community back together again,and then it's like it's either
doubted or that's not.
What the person said before youcame in was like, and then when
we articulate and try andfigure out what the message is,
you know how to talk about it.
It's like the attitude of weknow more than you, which is
very disturbing to me.
When you're talking about 20,30, $40 million concrete tile
(36:37):
rehabs, really you know morethan me.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I do caution boards not to play engineer, not to
play architect, not to playlawyer, not to play CPA.
I will tell you, as attorneys,wayne, we probably get a little
more deference when we'redispensing advice to clients.
But I'm going to tell you I'vehad a client well, it's a former
client actually that I toldthem the law and the response
(37:01):
was we don't believe that.
I was like you know what it'sthe law, so it's was we don't
believe that.
I was like you know what it'sthe law.
So it's not really a questionof interpretation, it is the law
.
But we got that pushback too,and I'd never had a client say
that before, and even when theyread the law they were provided
still could not understand andreally push back.
So I hope you're right.
(37:23):
I hope we've peaked, but I don'tknow if we have.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Don.
I had that quite recently whereit was a restoration project
required by all to do it.
But it was great for me becauseand this guy was I don't want
to describe him too well becausehe's a client right now but so
he had a very high power.
He was CEO of several companiesand this guy was the man and he
says I don't believe that to betrue.
(37:46):
I said great, contact yourattorney, don't take my word for
it.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
So it's did the attorney back you up, Kelly?
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Oh, 100 percent, and part of it was I, and it happens
more often than not with us,with our side of the business is
where I remember one time aproject we've been doing now for
quite a while James Logreco.
For anybody who doesn't knowhim, he's one of the most
brilliant people I've ever knownand that's why I was a smart
guy to become a partner with him.
So James was talking to theclient and the client's being
(38:16):
nice to me and I know this muchand James knows you can't see my
arms because we're not video.
James is like so knowledgeable.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Our arms are widespread.
He's describing James'knowledge.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
It's a quarter of an inch of knowledge of what we do,
but I don't need to know thatthe rest of my team does, and
James is brilliant.
So this guy who, once again, Iwant to say what he does for a
living, but I can't.
But let's just say this guy hadone of the most incredible,
fascinating jobs on the planet.
And the guy was brilliant andhe was being super nice to me
and he's beating the crap out ofJames and I'm sitting there
(38:49):
like going holy smokes.
This guy's just not being nice.
And after about an hour he justkind of looked back and he says
James, I apologize, I was kindof being kind of rude, but I was
just testing you.
And he goes you're amazing.
I'm like, wow, my God, I didn'tknow.
I thought it was going to be.
I'm like I don't know if we'rejust going to walk out or what's
going to happen.
But the guy was brutal.
(39:09):
And I think a lot of timespeople are just testing us.
So on our side to Wayne'ssaying you know, hey, you know.
We've been doing his businessfor decades, he knows it.
But people want.
People want to know how much heknows before they want to trust
us when we're done.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
I'm going to find a TikTok video I saw on that very
thing where it was an interviewand the guy kept getting tested
like that and it was just abrutal interview and he kept
saying no, you passed, You'refired.
I'll send it to you afterwards,Can imagine going I don't want
to work for you.
You were mean.
I don't know, it does seem tobe some gang worship.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
That's when you have two testosterone filled guys.
If there had been a woman there, you know it would have
probably got a lot better.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Well, I don't know, maybe we tested.
I don't know, I don't know.
So, guys, what inspired you tostart your podcast Wayne's World
with Kelly?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Well, actually I started it by myself when I
lived up in Minnesota.
Kind of a little bit of aninfluencer, inner Chuck Gary B
See him a lot on LinkedIn.
He gave his high school partytheory where he just said
there's different forms of, youknow, seniority type folks in
high school.
You know, you got the jocks,you got the cheerleaders, and
(40:26):
then you have the third leg,which is the person that
provides, is the host for theparty for people that want to
have a couple drinks or engagein teenage behavior.
They always need a place wherethey can have a party.
So that's where the thirdperson comes into play and I'm
like how in the hell, what doesthis have to do with a podcast?
And I'm like, how in the hell,what does this have to do with a
podcast?
So if we are providing a forumand a venue for people that are
(40:49):
important in the industry, thatwe want to meet and we want to
provide a forum for them to gettheir message out, we're going
to do a podcast.
I did that by myself.
Then, when Florida opened upduring COVID, I went down and
started doing some trade showsand I saw this six foot eight
engaging man named Kelly Kuhnand just went up to him and
(41:12):
introduced myself.
Kelly and I became fast friendsand then he actually had the
really good idea of saying, youknow, because I actually had him
on the podcast and he said hey,dude, what if we do this?
What if we do it together invideo format?
And so that's where we aretoday.
So really, I started it, butyet it was Kelly's impetus to
get us to where we're at rightnow and provide the benefits for
(41:35):
people like you, even thoughyou do have your own form.
You are, you don't needanything from us, but we just
like you.
That's why we like you on ourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I like you too, but do you realize, wayne, that
Kelly sold you at that meeting?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Actually, that's not exactly how I remember it.
What happened was we did thepodcast on his audio podcast and
it was really clunky how he hadto do it to record and
everything and when he finishedwe both had to hang up and then
it recorded and then he calls meback immediately and he goes
(42:13):
dude, that was awesome.
Let's do this together all thetime.
That's how it happened.
But then a lot of conversationhappened between us talking
about it and doing it.
But we said we want to educate,inspire and entertain.
Our guests are our guests.
We're not the stars of our showand and we have, we've, we've
(42:34):
done so many podcasts.
We've had some amazing peopleand the one I thought was a dud,
he didn't think, and one thathe thought was a dud I didn't
think.
So I think we've had like anamazing run with incredible
guests.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
How do you decide who you want to invite to come on
your show?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Let's see how, the how, the what is, what is it how
the sausage is made?
So one of the agreements thatWayne and I have is we both have
veto power and if we don't bothagree, the person doesn't come
on the show.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
But.
And there's.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
You know, it's amazing how many people would
like to do it and I get it, butwe're not an infomercial Right
you?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
know we want to educate, inspire and entertain.
You're not a commercial.
You want people on and you wantto engage in a meaningful
dialogue.
Sure.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Yeah, we had a guy that was the chief operating
officer of Roto-Rooter who wasalso on Undercover Boss, and it
was the number one episode theyever had in the 10, 15 years
that they did the show and I metthe guy.
And then I wasn't even thinkingbecause we were talking business
and then the next thing we gotoff the phone.
(43:39):
I called him back up.
I go, I want you on the showand he came on and he was
absolutely phenomenal.
I mean we are so fortunate inSouth Florida to run into the
most amazing people.
We had Derek Holland, whoplayed 14, 15 years as a Major
League Baseball pitcher, 10years as a starter, playing two
World Series.
I met him on the golf coursedown here at a dump golf course.
(44:01):
I was embarrassed that he wasplaying there and that I was
playing there and we became fastfriends and he's been on the
show a few times.
Phenomenal guest Will Dogato,who is with Vassal, was in the
military and then he got intoconstruction and then he got
into property management.
What a story.
(44:21):
I mean there's so many peopleout there with great stories and
I think when we had him on theshow we talked for two minutes
about property management andthe rest was about that and his
wife and his daughter managementand the rest was about that and
his wife and his daughter.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
I mean, there's so many great cases out there.
You guys are curious.
You're curious like I am.
That's kind of my methodology.
You know, just if I meetsomebody and I think they're
interesting or it's aninteresting topic, I had a woman
on, a young woman in herthirties who Mark Cuban invested
in her company it's 3D Seawalls, living Seawalls.
She was actually one of my bestguests.
I couldn't believe it.
(44:53):
It was like she, this woman,was media ready.
So yeah, that's kind of how Ilook at it.
Would you guys ever havesomebody you absolutely detest
on your podcast?
But you think, but Kelly'sshaking his head now but, you
think that they have?
something valuable to say.
No, okay, that's your vote,wayne.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah, you know I actually treasure any time I can
disagree with Kelly, but onthis one I think I'm with him If
they have something really goodto say, but they don't fit into
the structure, I guess, of whatKelly and I are bringing out
there, which is a podcast thatwe believe in and we're proud of
(45:37):
.
If we're not behind you, forwhatever reason, then maybe you
better go find a differentpodcast.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Like a bad example would be like if Jeffrey Dahmer
was still alive.
I mean, he was really great atwhat he did.
I never had him on the show.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I was living in Milwaukee when he was throwing
people in the crock pot, dude, Iwas there.
Okay, I should have.
I apologize, don't think youknow more about jeff than I do
you know what I I have to jumpin.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
I grew up in desplaines, john wayne, gacy
same summer, not the clown guythe clown killer?
Yes, and actually my olderbrother was seven years older
than me.
One of one of his victims wasin my brother's graduating class
.
Yes, Terrible.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
I mean we could you know?
Speaker 1 (46:25):
it's funny we're talking about this because
during the pandemic I startedlistening to true crime podcast
and architectural podcast, alldifferent sorts, and that's kind
of when I said oh wow, I thinkI'd like to do a podcast on
association issues.
But yeah, maybe for a differenttime we can talk about killers.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
But there's other people that they just don't
align with our salespeople.
I've known some salespeople thatdo incredible numbers and I
have zero respect for them and Ialways say you know, and I
worked with another guy weinterviewed a guy from my old
company up in DC and I was bestfriends with the owners and so
we took the guy golf and he wasa great golfer and we're in Greg
(47:07):
.
The owner says Kelly, what doyou think?
Do you think we should hire me?
Because he's nothing like you?
I said, yeah, what do you think, do you think we should hire
him?
He goes, he's nothing like you.
I said, yeah, I think he'd beperfect for us.
He was, but now that's he'skind of a weird example because
he was a great salesman but hedid it completely different than
the way I approach clients, buthe was, but he still was honest
, as the day is long.
Now, if that guy there's otherpeople that we talked to and we
didn't necessarily take themgolfing to see if they were
(47:28):
going to interview, but it's agreat way to thank somebody and
the reason we hired that one guyI said, listen, I don't care if
he's good or not, we're goingto win tournaments with this guy
.
But, with that being said, somepeople can be really bad people
but really successful at whatthey do and I don't want to have
any.
I don't want anything to dowith him.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Well, I actually feel the same way.
Let me ask you who's your dream?
Speaker 3 (47:54):
you guys have a dream guest in mind, just a really,
if you could get this person onyour podcast I can't say his
last name, but for me it's nickthe guy with no arms and no legs
and I've actually been in talkswith him and hopefully we will
eventually get him on the show.
Do you know who he is?
I do not he's, he's the.
He's the number one speaker inthe world, but a lot of people I
mean, he has no arms, no legs,born that way, wow, and real
handsome guy.
He's got a wife and a few kids,um, and he's come through and
(48:17):
his story will break your heartand also you'll make him, make
you love him forever.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
So hopefully maybe send him this podcast.
That's your dream guest, waynedream guest.
You ever given any thought?
Speaker 2 (48:29):
yeah, um, I'd really like the CEO of Lifetime Fitness
.
When I lived in Minnesota,their corporate headquarters was
called Chanhassen.
I lived in a suburb right nextto it called Chaska, but the
place I would work out wasLifetime Fitness and I knew the
owner.
He started out pushing a broomat US Swim and Fitness, which
(48:53):
was a big chain of clubs.
He came over with his family in1979 during the Iranian
revolution.
That happened and forced a lotof Iranians to move to the
United States.
He started with nothing and heruns a fitness empire.
So I'd actually talked to himat one time in the club because
(49:15):
he would work out there.
He'd just be among all of usand he was pretty close to
coming on.
I talked to his assistant andunfortunately it didn't work out
.
But the people I mean you showme a strong person, you know,
and I'll show you someone thatdidn't have a choice, right, and
I refuse to believe that thecommon person can't move a
(49:39):
mountain, because we've seen it.
Dude comes in here and canspeak English, right, he's
pushing a broom and all of asudden he's the CEO of the
largest I'm going to call itlow-based fitness center in the
United States.
There's a lot of them inFlorida.
Okay, they opened up a new onein Tampa Lifetime Fitness.
He would be my dream guest justbecause of-.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Hey, listen, my guy had no arms and no legs and
you're just talking about some-.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Listen, I hope you both get your dream guests.
See, I've gotten my dreamguests because you're on the
show today.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
So I thought for sure .
Speaker 3 (50:16):
Wayne was going to go .
Well, you already have.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yeah, but I think Donna could see through that
line of BS.
No.
I just want to tell you.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
You said women were good.
You said women were goodsalespeople.
There you go.
Oh, that's right.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
We gave one, but for the next 52 weeks weeks we've
got incredible people lined uppeople on this, but it really
we've.
It's amazing how many greatguests we've had you gotta try
to get.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
You gotta try to get steve on your podcast because he
is.
He's a lot of fun and he is soknowledgeable.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
It's just that his schedule is crazy it is, and I,
I, we better get him on at somepoint.
But, um, you know, I like toget him and james at the same
time.
I think they could, you know,buddy, buddy together.
So that's four gonna have agood time.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
But steven, he's steve lexler would be a great.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
I I'm already gotta walk the line because I, I'm,
I'm like, I think he's like sogreat at what he does.
I don't want people to thinkthat there's anything except for
I just think, think he's great.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
It's a fan episode.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Yeah, We've had a lot of our dream guests have been
on the show so truly withoutkissing our guests in the past.
We really have been pleased.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
You have listen for everybody who's listening to
this podcast.
Their podcast is fantastic.
I love it and they should.
They should come and visit andyou're.
You're out every week.
I don't know how you do that.
I'm out twice a month.
That's like enough for me.
So it's very ambitious that youguys put out content weekly.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
Sometimes it's easier than others to to make it
happen, but we we had agentleman who was a quadriplegic
in high school who now he'smarried with a beautiful wife
and kid and runs his ownbusiness.
I mean, I hate to brag, but ourguests are amazing, it's just
amazing.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
All right.
So you guys, I've kept you solong.
I want to ask you one lastquestion each, and I've never
asked a guest this questionbefore.
But I'm going to start with.
Wayne.
You're writing your memoir.
What's the title?
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Here's what it is.
There's one of my favoritelover boy songs of the 1980s.
It's called Loving Every Minuteof it, so the title is Loving
Every Minute of it.
The Rise, Fall and Rise of aSales Superstar.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Wow, I'd buy that book.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Thank you, and so yeah, I mean I don't know if I'd
like that book.
But actually kept a diary myentire senior year in high
school, so I have the diligenceof being able to chronicle parts
of my life that I've kept andthen to be able to fill out the
rest of the stuff that happenedsince 1984, that would be in the
(52:49):
book and then the title of itis just what I said.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
You should do it.
I hope you give some thought tothat.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Well, there's no thought in it.
I just don't know when I'mgoing to be able to write the
last chapter, because they keepgetting bigger and bigger as I
get older and older.
So but it will.
Pen to pen, will be put topaper the old school way at some
point.
Thank you for asking.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
If you do it, I want an autographed copy.
I'm so scared to actually askKelly for the name of what his
memoir would be after seeing theself-reported biography he sent
me, but I'm going to do itanyhow.
I'm going to be brave, Kelly.
What would the title of yourmemoir be?
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Well, I just thought of it about five seconds ago,
but it'd be called Making theBest of my Dash.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Making the Best of my Dash, making the Best of your
Dash Dash.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
I love quizzes, I love word games, I love trivia
and all that stuff.
What's the dash?
I was born on April 17, 1963.
Dash, the dash is your life.
That's very clever, that iscool Making the Best of my
clever.
(53:55):
That is cool.
That is very cool Making thebest of my dash.
I like that.
Guys.
I love my life.
I've had the most incrediblelife.
Hopefully there's still a lotleft in it, but I never have a
bad day.
I only have bad moments and now, fortunately, since I live two
blocks from the beach, if I'mhaving a bad moment, I just walk
over to the beach, take a lookat it for a couple seconds and I
head back to work.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Guys, Wayne, Kelly, thanks so much for joining us
today.
Have a good one.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Thank you so much for having us.
I appreciate it.
Donna, Take care Bye.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to follow and rateus on your favorite podcast
platform or visit Take.
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