September 8, 2025 • 32 mins
Have you ever experienced the painful distance of an estranged relationship? That space between you and someone you once felt close to—whether a parent, child, or sibling—can feel impossible to bridge. Yet reconciliation might be more possible than you think.
In this raw, unscripted conversation, we pull back the curtain on our personal experiences with family estrangement. Gen courageously shares her journey of reconciliation with her mother for the first time publicly, revealing the emotional complexity of moving from disconnection to healing. We explore what happens in that space between the anger, disappointment, frustration, and eventual clarity that can emerge from separation.
The heart of our discussion centers on what real healing requires. Self-reflection must precede reconciliation; you can't depend on others to heal your emotional wounds. Communication, both with yourself and eventually with the estranged person, forms the foundation for rebuilding trust. We examine how redefining "normal" within relationships creates space for healthier dynamics to emerge.
Perhaps most poignantly, we confront the reality of time—how quickly it passes and how much is lost during periods of estrangement. As the holiday season approaches, this conversation feels especially timely for anyone considering whether reconciliation with an estranged family member might be possible.
Whether you're currently experiencing estrangement or supporting someone who is, this episode offers guidance for navigating the journey from disconnection to reconciliation. The work isn't easy, but as we've discovered firsthand, the reward of rebuilding meaningful relationships makes every difficult conversation worth it.
Look up, and let's elevate.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
hey, it's jen the builder, and cory and we just
want to say hello to everyoneand thank you for being here I
yes that, and because two thingscan be right at the same time.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I want to say good night, cause I beat from this
weekend and the episode is done.
No, but Jen, let's talk aboutthis insane weekend that we have
had together.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Insanely good.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Insanely good, yes, but just how much, how many and
how power packed it was yeah, sowe knew.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I knew that, man, this weekend is going to be
short, monday's going to be hereand that's why I sent that reel
on my instagram, um, butSaturday we had a great time.
We had Bible study, we got tohang out for a little bit.
Then we got home, picked somestuff up, had cousins come over,
(01:15):
got ready for a party and Iwant to pause for this party,
because it was one of thoseparties where you had to wear
all white.
And this wasn't no diddy partythat's right, definitely not a
diddy party.
Um, I don't like white.
(01:37):
I don't, you know, have muchstuff that's white, but let me
tell you it is.
You know, I I have to reflectand I'm not going to do right
now, but I obsessed, you know, II have to reflect and I'm not
gonna do right now, but Iobsessed with what am I gonna
wear and I honestly got likethree, maybe four and I say
maybe four because you can mixmatch some stuff, but anyways,
(01:58):
went to a white party, rightyeah and so, um, it worked out
good, though it was amazing.
So we're gonna give a shout outto our little cousin, michelle,
who's not so little in age, butshe is my youngest female cousin
and she just turned 40.
(02:19):
So we celebrated four decades ofan amazing life and it was so
my favorite part to the partyand there were so many good
things there is hearing herchildren talk about her and what
she means to them and what sherole models and who she is, and
(02:43):
it was just such a huge blessing, I I'm sure, and because it was
for me to hear, but for herefor her to hear that as well
yeah, they just paid massivehomage to a mother that has
really done everything in herpower to raise them properly and
to allow them opportunitiesthat you know they might not
(03:05):
have had had she not been thekind of mom that she is.
Yeah, absolutely.
You talk about grit and raisingthe kids and getting her
doctorate.
Yeah yeah, she's special.
So, michelle, if you'relistening, love you, awesome
party and I'll do another whiteparty again, I won't be so
(03:30):
afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah.
Tell us about Sunday so thenSunday, and, mind you, we got
home around 12, 1 o'clock, giveor take.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And then we slept After we had In-N-Out.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, we did, because I wasn't going to dare marinara
sauce at the white party on allmy white Just wasn't going to
happen.
So then we wake up bright andearly I was actually up before
six because I had some videos toedit and some other things to
get through for the thebeginning of the week and then
(04:05):
we had another party to go to,which was, uh, our sister, jen's
biological sister, and mysister-in-law, um, is here from
yorkshire, england, which is along, long, long ways away, and
we just wanted to be there andembrace her and welcome her back
(04:25):
.
She hasn't been here since.
She was here earlier this year,late last year Late last year,
but we only got a day with heron that time, so this is going
to be a much better time around.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, that was good.
So we're going to have her fortwo weeks.
She's got a jam-packed calendar, but we're going to sneak her
for two weeks.
She's got a jam packed calendar, but we're going to sneak in
some days, for sure, I don'tknow.
And I'm going to say this it'sreally strange, you know, uh, to
have a sister who lives inEngland.
Like when we were younger, youdon't see this kind of stuff
happening, and I really, umappreciate today's episode,
(05:04):
corey, because it's not exactlywhat's going on with my sister
living in England, but it doeshave to do with distancing in a
relationship, right, yeah, sothis is another great show that
Corey has produced.
I'm here for it.
I have no notes, so just, youknow, just buckle in with me and
(05:30):
Corey and let's talk about this.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Let the pieces fall where they may.
Yes, so, jen, you know, I had asituation that happened maybe a
few days ago, where I had thisconversation with a friend of
mine who is a parent, and hisson and him are estranged, and
(05:55):
so I was asking questions aboutwhat that looked like, and and
did he see any future in themrecovering, gaining ground to
build back their relationship?
And so let's start with the wordestranged first, before we get
(06:16):
too deep into this, because Iwant everyone to know exactly
what that word means.
That word means, and so, ifyou're an estranged parent, it
refers to a relationship with achild where there has been
prolonged loss of contact andcommunication, often due to
negative relationshipscharacterized by factors like
(06:38):
abuse, neglect or fundamentaldisagreements on values and
lifestyle choices.
So he was explaining to me thathis son has lifestyles that he
doesn't agree with, and so ithas drove them further and
(06:59):
further apart, and it promptedme to really dive deep into this
, this topic.
And, um, I said, man, you know,I'm sure there's a lot of
people, because I've had, youknow, my moments where me and my
mom were estranged and samewith me and, uh, one of my
(07:20):
children, uh, one of ourchildren.
But you know we'll get deepinto that in just a second.
But, jen, just give me yoursurface level input on someone
being estranged from estranged,estranged, estranged it's a
strange word.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
My overall thought is at surface, it doesn't sound
like something positive insomeone's life to estrange
yourself from a parent or fromyour child, right, right, just
distancing feels like it'sconflict avoidant, yeah.
And then there's the sacrificeof the relationship because of
(08:11):
that.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So that's first and foremost.
But I'm not going to lie.
I've been in estrangedrelationships.
Yes, one with my own mother,one with a sibling, right.
And so was it over abuse?
No, but it was over us growingup, finding ourselves, trying to
(08:40):
find our voices really liningup with our own values.
That didn't necessarily alignwith the others, right?
So, um, thankfully, that's notthe situation currently, nor do
I see it ever being that again.
Right, did I?
(09:01):
Do I think that it had tohappen?
Yes, was it hard when ithappened and while it was
happening?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
So those are my first thoughts.
So you just really cracked theegg open and let it start
sizzling already.
We can't dial back what'salready been put out there.
So my question to you is when,in that state, what are the
emotions?
And all I got is you to askthis.
(09:34):
You know, um, so I really gottago with the momentum at this
point.
What, what are the the emotionsthat are happening, and what
are the consequences and theeffects of this developing
situation?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
that's a loaded question because it's loaded
with emotions yeah right.
It's almost like grievingbecause it is a loss.
When I was estranged from mymom, that was a huge loss of a
relationship.
But here's the thing the lossof the relationship actually
(10:15):
caused us to find a healthyrelationship.
Okay, say more.
So, my mom and I had a lot ofresentment, but then I thought I
forgave her.
You know that kind of way rightbut we never talked about it.
(10:40):
We just kind of swept it underthe rug, like we always did
years ago, and so so things justcame up.
You know, it surfaced, we werein muddy water, like it just
stirred up.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Let me jump in real quick because I see what's
happening.
You're stirring up some emotionright now, as you said you
would First question emotion.
Right now, as you said, youwould um first question do you
see recovery from an estrangedrelationship without
communication?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
without communication .
Yes, no no, eventually therehas to be communication.
Why?
Because communication is such ahuge part of a relationship.
Like without communicationthere is no relationship or it
will eventually break down.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
And I'm glad you said that.
I'm so glad you said that.
I'm going to tell you why thereare people on this earth that
believe that we don't have tocommunicate to get along, we
don't have to share things withone another in order for us to
coexist in a relationship.
And so you're saying it's not arelationship.
(11:58):
Okay, and I'm glad you'resaying that, because I don't
disagree with you, but I justreally want to put that out
there because there's somepeople that have that mindset
yeah, next.
Next question, or do you want to?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
go.
Well, let me say something,because I didn't address your
question.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And for those who are listening.
Yes, I'm struggling becausethis is not.
I have not out loud talkedabout the estranged relationship
with my family.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That has been something that's been very
secret, very internal, betweenthem and me.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And, of course, you.
So I'm trying to find my wordsfor things that I'm talking out
loud for the first time.
The emotions I went through Iwas angry, I was disappointed, I
was sad, I was frustrated um, Ifelt empowered at times, and I
think that was a false sense ofempowerment.
(12:49):
More like you can get throughthis, so I but I learned a lot
of things along the way.
It gave me time to reflect andreally think about things.
I definitely missed her, right,and you get clarity.
I think it's the same.
It's the same outcome as apause.
(13:12):
This was a super long pause,though, but see, here's the
thing.
You mentioned communication.
I didn't stop communicating,though.
What I mean is I wasn'tcommunicating with her.
I was communicating with myselfand asking questions, talking
to you about it and just gettingit out and sorting it through,
and my big communication duringthat time and still is is being
(13:37):
in prayer, because I had to holdon to hope.
I just knew that this was nothow this relationship was
supposed to be, but I also knewthat it had to change, right.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Pretty deep stuff there and I see how it's hard to
unpack that in real time.
And, guys, I'm going to bereally honest with you, I did
not give jen any briefing onthis, so, uh, she, she's really
struggling right here right now,in front of all of us.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So thank you in advance for understanding.
Bear with us yeah, um.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
So, jen, give me some understanding of once you
realize that this needs to come.
And I'm not asking for detailsand I know some people probably
want some, but you know thatthat's not.
That's neither here or there.
We're trying to learn somethinghere.
We're trying to learn when youhave to tell end of this and you
(14:33):
realize there's a way into aproductive and healed
relationship.
What was the thought process?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Say that one more time, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You have to tell end of this estranged relationship.
You see, there's hope for thereto be healing and a complete
relationship.
What is this?
What is the thought process?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
well the thought process I knew when um I had
asked, said I want thisrelationship to be healed, and I
know that there are things thatI'm responsible and need to
take accountability for as well.
So let me focus on that.
First and foremost, I needed tobe open, and just open to at
(15:23):
any time, because we are family,we are going to see each other,
we are going to talk and do Icontinue with the small talk or
do we build a new baseline bytalking about the things that
we've ignored and really makingthe time and putting in the
(15:46):
energy and the thoughtfulnessand opening up my heart with
understanding and grace so wecan get to that space of being
healthy?
Right, I mean I wanted, Iwanted to be able to tell my mom
I love you, but that was not,that was not normal language
(16:06):
between her and I.
Right, and um, yeah, and so ifsomeone had told me I held him
right now, if someone had toldme 20 years ago that my mom and
I would be in the kind ofrelationship that we're in now,
I believe in miracles, so Iprobably would have said, okay,
that's a miracle, but I believein them.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I just don't see how that's going to happen right,
yeah, um, I I have to give myside of it because, uh, I was
going through this at the sametime you were going through it
and and it was, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
No, yeah, I wanted to ask that because I'm not alone
in this.
What impacts me, impacts you.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
And so to have your side and your perspective of
this breakdown.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
You know what was that like?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It was tough, and not for me, but it was tough for me
to watch you go through it.
It was.
It was tough to see a woman whois so freely giving feelings,
emotions, love, and watching younot be able to give that, not
(17:22):
be able to call out those things.
I love you, um, come by, or canI come by, or I'm, I'm in the
neighborhood and we had had, youknow, glimpses of that early in
our relationship and then thatit was abruptly taken away for
(17:42):
whatever reason.
And that it was abruptly takenaway for whatever reason, and
all I could do at that momentwas really just be there.
Sometimes you just didn't wantany advice.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You didn't want to hear rationale or how to fix it.
It's probably the emotion ofbeing mad, yeah, or?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
betrayed, right yeah, and, in all honesty, there were
times when I knew it's notgoing to get fixed right now.
We just got to wait until theright time.
In terms that you canunderstand is when it's raining,
when it's flooding and stormingoutside and you know it's
(18:24):
dangerous to go outside rightnow.
If I leave the house right now,I could risk my own life.
It was that bad in terms of howthe relationship was going, and
so I was very conscious to say,hey, let's not go out there
right now, let's not try to workthis out just yet.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It's not safe absolutely, you're really good
about that.
And then you were.
I noticed when you nudged oryou would bring something up,
and it was very helpful to beable to talk things out with you
and just ask the questions andof course you weren't judging
(19:08):
yet you were firm and clearabout men.
Maybe you didn't agree with mytrain of thought, or you gave me
another thought process right,another perspective.
Thought process right, yeah,another perspective.
(19:29):
So that was really helpful.
And I have to say this,journaling during that time was
huge for me.
Like I remember some of theprompts that would come my way,
like without thinking of no, orthere's this barrier, or that
could never happen.
Just having a vision of what ahealthy relationship with my mom
would be like, like, yeah, whatdoes that feel like, what does
(19:53):
it look like?
And to be today in that ispretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, and I'll say this I just have to take a page
out of my strained relationrelationship every time I got to
a point to where and I try notto let let it linger and last
too long but what I started torealize is that I'm blaming, I'm
(20:20):
being blamed and we're just inthis vicious cycle yeah and you.
It just feels like it's neverending that the go around and
turn around like, well, you didthis and, but you didn't do this
, you didn't do that, and youdon't see it my way and you
don't, I don't see it your way,and, and so what I finally came
(20:43):
to the conclusion is I can'tcontrol you, you can't control
me, but I can control me and youcan control you.
And if we work really, reallyhard at just doing that, one
simple act, me controllingmyself and giving grace where
(21:04):
it's needed, because nobody'sever going to make all the best
decisions, all the rightdecisions and you know, like you
said, we're family and I and Ijust really want to nail this
one home and then I'm gonna passit over to you, but, um, we are
nicer to complete and totalstrangers and that truth,
(21:28):
sometimes most of the time andsome of these strangers have
done heinous things to us,called us out of our names,
talked about our families, uh,attempt to hurt our children, um
, I mean, the list is verylengthy and it's very deep and
we still figure out a way todeal with that person.
(21:51):
But the person that is in ourfamily, who we know, if we just
sit for a few seconds and saythat's just not an evil person,
that's not a person that reallywants to do harm to me.
But we're willing to hold andharbor these feelings and I just
think it'd be a little biteasier to just try to look past
(22:12):
that.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
For sure, for sure.
So I have a question for you.
Sure, being estranged to nowbeing back in a relationship
with that person.
What does that shift look like?
What does it consist of?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well for me, first I had to heal myself, and that is
a real thing.
For me, Self-healing isessential.
You have to go through thatprocess in order to move forward
, and that way you know it'scomplete.
(22:59):
If you're banking and hopingthat someone else can heal you
or help you through someemotional baggage that you've
created yourself or you'veallowed to happen in a
relationship between two people,and that person is off doing
their own thing, you have to beable to reflect on what's going
(23:20):
to better you, what's going toaid you in being a better person
.
So that's the starting point,first and foremost.
And then second and I'll makethis short is just taking that
first step to say I want to workpast this, I want to work
through this, I want to makesure that I don't live here for
the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, and I'd like to add to that.
And I'd like to add to that,using this story with my mom, I
knew that we had to redefinewhat was normal for us, because
what was normal before wasn'tworking Right.
(24:10):
To take place between her and Iand I agree with you, corey,
self-healing absolutely a must.
Forgiveness, compassion onyourself needs to take place,
because then you can extend thatto the other person, right?
And what really just got me isthat we allowed so much time to
be taken from us when it wasreally actions done by other
people, right, you know what Imean.
So I knew that when my mom andI were building back our
(24:34):
relationship, we did have or Idid, I'll just speak for myself
I had to express myself.
I had to stay in the moment ofthose emotions and welcome them
and relive some of the thingsthat I didn't want to, you know,
bring back.
But I knew that I had to rightand just hear her.
(24:55):
It wasn't time for me to ventabout it again.
I've done that before.
so here's the thing you got tochange your approach yeah if you
want to change this, change asituation, that's like a must
and also be aware of like okay,these are the things that got us
estranged.
(25:16):
Let me be very thoughtful andintentional about my future
actions and the things that Isay, and not be careless.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Because you don't want to go back.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Right, absolutely, and I agree a hundred percent.
As a matter of fact, I was, justbefore you said that, sitting
here saying we probably shouldcall out what's abnormal first
to ourselves, not to one anotherand and if you can say you know
what, that's probably not themost baseline thing or the
(25:46):
normal thing that I could say orthat she could say or that they
could say.
So I want to approach thatdifferently, um, in the future,
and it might not be the bestidea to call it out right away,
but you're just talking toyourself like, okay, I just got
yelled at for absolutely noreason.
(26:06):
That's not a normal situationthat I'm used to.
I haven't been yelled at ineons by my mom, sister, brother.
Yeah, you know, whatever it is.
And here we are in thisposition.
So then, moving forward, youcould say I'm going to address
(26:26):
that if this should happen again, and if it happens again, be
prepared.
Hey, you know, let's refrainfrom yelling at each other and
then move on quickly.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, and we didn't.
We didn't say the F word hereand it's not what everyone
thinks.
It's forgiveness, oh yeah yeahum, and not just an action, but
truly from the heart,forgiveness and just releasing
the walls that you've built up,the thoughts you've already
(27:00):
formed, the assumptions you'vemade.
Like that has to be released.
Um, and so, yeah, and it's, andit's worth the work and calling
things out respectfully and inlove, so you don't have to go
through the whole thing again.
Um, and I just want to say thatI love that we're having this
(27:24):
topic right now, because, yes,it's september, but before you
know it, it's like time for theholidays yeah and I miss being
with my family.
There was a time where me, mybrother and sister were not in
the same place with my mom.
Like seriously, my mom had togo spend time with different
(27:46):
kids at different times.
It was that bad, and just overthe weekend we were together and
it was beautiful and it was funLaughter yeah.
I mean and you know, I know wealways say this, but I just I
don't care.
I don't care if it's repeatedinformation, we don't get the
time back no, we don't you justgotta ask yourself, like, is it
(28:10):
really worth the lost time,right?
um, when you love somebody, yes,it's worth figuring it out and
forgiving and talking it out andworking it out and being
together in partnership, andagain, quickly, not taking your
(28:31):
time.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Time is a commodity, like you said, you can't get it
back.
And once you know that, insteadof wasting time and throwing
away time, being mad andreliving the same story over and
over and over every day, everyother day, every christmas,
every thanksgiving, move forwardquickly well, can you say more
(28:56):
about that?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
because, um, I think there was too much time lost
there, but I also knew thereneeded to be time separate.
So what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
as far as quickly, so in any situation that has gone
awry we know the part that we'veplayed the best thing to do is
heal.
Heal yourself first, quicklyokay, got you and it's up to
that other person to healthemselves.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
And yes, okay, I hear you because we can take the
time just ruminating yeah andtelling that story over and over
and over yeah and then you justget sucked in and it gets
deeper and darker.
Okay, I got you now.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
It's a vicious cycle that we can't get out of
everybody we talk to we'retelling that story.
Yeah, every every time we got amoment to ourselves, we're
telling ourselves that.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Absolutely so.
I think for me, as we come toan end, I would really hope and
encourage you who are listening,and if someone or something has
come to your mind, honor it.
Stay there, like what is thatabout?
(30:22):
So stay there, like what isthat about?
How do I start the self-healingprocess?
What do I need to do?
What does this look like?
And just start on that smallstep.
(30:43):
Yeah, I think time is verylimited.
I mean it's not and that's notlike a ooh, that was deep.
I mean we all know this.
And it's so funny because thethings we know we take for
granted, and I've seen thishappen one too many times in my
life and other people's lives,where they always regret that
(31:03):
they didn't do what they weresupposed to do and then it was
too late, you know, and thatreally reminds me of our weekend
.
I love the honor in the life ofour cousin while she's still
alive, right, yeah, and not itnot being something that's
shared after her life is over.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
We literally gave her her flowers while she's still
alive.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yes, yes, is there anything you want to say before
we close?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
No, jen, this has been a great episode.
I mean, I do want to mentionthis and I hate to throw this in
there on top of that, so Iwon't do it.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
All right.
Well, everybody, we hope thatyou have a good week and that
you take good care of yourselvesand each other.
Yeah, you know us to take theelevator.
We say look up and let'selevate.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know everybody's wondering what I was going to
say look up and let's elevateEvery day.
You know everybody's wonderingwhat I was going to say right
yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Every day.
I personally was thinkingyou're going to be getting
announced Every day, but I'llnever know Next time.
Every day, every day.
hey, it's jen the builder, and cory and we just
want to say hello to everyoneand thank you for being here I
yes that, and because two thingscan be right at the same time.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I want to say good night, cause I beat from this
weekend and the episode is done.
No, but Jen, let's talk aboutthis insane weekend that we have
had together.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Insanely good.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Insanely good, yes, but just how much, how many and
how power packed it was yeah, sowe knew.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I knew that, man, this weekend is going to be
short, monday's going to be hereand that's why I sent that reel
on my instagram, um, butSaturday we had a great time.
We had Bible study, we got tohang out for a little bit.
Then we got home, picked somestuff up, had cousins come over,
(01:15):
got ready for a party and Iwant to pause for this party,
because it was one of thoseparties where you had to wear
all white.
And this wasn't no diddy partythat's right, definitely not a
diddy party.
Um, I don't like white.
(01:37):
I don't, you know, have muchstuff that's white, but let me
tell you it is.
You know, I I have to reflectand I'm not going to do right
now, but I obsessed, you know, II have to reflect and I'm not
gonna do right now, but Iobsessed with what am I gonna
wear and I honestly got likethree, maybe four and I say
maybe four because you can mixmatch some stuff, but anyways,
(01:58):
went to a white party, rightyeah and so, um, it worked out
good, though it was amazing.
So we're gonna give a shout outto our little cousin, michelle,
who's not so little in age, butshe is my youngest female cousin
and she just turned 40.
(02:19):
So we celebrated four decades ofan amazing life and it was so
my favorite part to the partyand there were so many good
things there is hearing herchildren talk about her and what
she means to them and what sherole models and who she is, and
(02:43):
it was just such a huge blessing, I I'm sure, and because it was
for me to hear, but for herefor her to hear that as well
yeah, they just paid massivehomage to a mother that has
really done everything in herpower to raise them properly and
to allow them opportunitiesthat you know they might not
(03:05):
have had had she not been thekind of mom that she is.
Yeah, absolutely.
You talk about grit and raisingthe kids and getting her
doctorate.
Yeah yeah, she's special.
So, michelle, if you'relistening, love you, awesome
party and I'll do another whiteparty again, I won't be so
(03:30):
afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah.
Tell us about Sunday so thenSunday, and, mind you, we got
home around 12, 1 o'clock, giveor take.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And then we slept After we had In-N-Out.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, we did, because I wasn't going to dare marinara
sauce at the white party on allmy white Just wasn't going to
happen.
So then we wake up bright andearly I was actually up before
six because I had some videos toedit and some other things to
get through for the thebeginning of the week and then
(04:05):
we had another party to go to,which was, uh, our sister, jen's
biological sister, and mysister-in-law, um, is here from
yorkshire, england, which is along, long, long ways away, and
we just wanted to be there andembrace her and welcome her back
(04:25):
.
She hasn't been here since.
She was here earlier this year,late last year Late last year,
but we only got a day with heron that time, so this is going
to be a much better time around.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, that was good.
So we're going to have her fortwo weeks.
She's got a jam-packed calendar, but we're going to sneak her
for two weeks.
She's got a jam packed calendar, but we're going to sneak in
some days, for sure, I don'tknow.
And I'm going to say this it'sreally strange, you know, uh, to
have a sister who lives inEngland.
Like when we were younger, youdon't see this kind of stuff
happening, and I really, umappreciate today's episode,
(05:04):
corey, because it's not exactlywhat's going on with my sister
living in England, but it doeshave to do with distancing in a
relationship, right, yeah, sothis is another great show that
Corey has produced.
I'm here for it.
I have no notes, so just, youknow, just buckle in with me and
(05:30):
Corey and let's talk about this.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Let the pieces fall where they may.
Yes, so, jen, you know, I had asituation that happened maybe a
few days ago, where I had thisconversation with a friend of
mine who is a parent, and hisson and him are estranged, and
(05:55):
so I was asking questions aboutwhat that looked like, and and
did he see any future in themrecovering, gaining ground to
build back their relationship?
And so let's start with the wordestranged first, before we get
(06:16):
too deep into this, because Iwant everyone to know exactly
what that word means.
That word means, and so, ifyou're an estranged parent, it
refers to a relationship with achild where there has been
prolonged loss of contact andcommunication, often due to
negative relationshipscharacterized by factors like
(06:38):
abuse, neglect or fundamentaldisagreements on values and
lifestyle choices.
So he was explaining to me thathis son has lifestyles that he
doesn't agree with, and so ithas drove them further and
(06:59):
further apart, and it promptedme to really dive deep into this
, this topic.
And, um, I said, man, you know,I'm sure there's a lot of
people, because I've had, youknow, my moments where me and my
mom were estranged and samewith me and, uh, one of my
(07:20):
children, uh, one of ourchildren.
But you know we'll get deepinto that in just a second.
But, jen, just give me yoursurface level input on someone
being estranged from estranged,estranged, estranged it's a
strange word.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
My overall thought is at surface, it doesn't sound
like something positive insomeone's life to estrange
yourself from a parent or fromyour child, right, right, just
distancing feels like it'sconflict avoidant, yeah.
And then there's the sacrificeof the relationship because of
(08:11):
that.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So that's first and foremost.
But I'm not going to lie.
I've been in estrangedrelationships.
Yes, one with my own mother,one with a sibling, right.
And so was it over abuse?
No, but it was over us growingup, finding ourselves, trying to
(08:40):
find our voices really liningup with our own values.
That didn't necessarily alignwith the others, right?
So, um, thankfully, that's notthe situation currently, nor do
I see it ever being that again.
Right, did I?
(09:01):
Do I think that it had tohappen?
Yes, was it hard when ithappened and while it was
happening?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
So those are my first thoughts.
So you just really cracked theegg open and let it start
sizzling already.
We can't dial back what'salready been put out there.
So my question to you is when,in that state, what are the
emotions?
And all I got is you to askthis.
(09:34):
You know, um, so I really gottago with the momentum at this
point.
What, what are the the emotionsthat are happening, and what
are the consequences and theeffects of this developing
situation?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
that's a loaded question because it's loaded
with emotions yeah right.
It's almost like grievingbecause it is a loss.
When I was estranged from mymom, that was a huge loss of a
relationship.
But here's the thing the lossof the relationship actually
(10:15):
caused us to find a healthyrelationship.
Okay, say more.
So, my mom and I had a lot ofresentment, but then I thought I
forgave her.
You know that kind of way rightbut we never talked about it.
(10:40):
We just kind of swept it underthe rug, like we always did
years ago, and so so things justcame up.
You know, it surfaced, we werein muddy water, like it just
stirred up.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Let me jump in real quick because I see what's
happening.
You're stirring up some emotionright now, as you said you
would First question emotion.
Right now, as you said, youwould um first question do you
see recovery from an estrangedrelationship without
communication?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
without communication .
Yes, no no, eventually therehas to be communication.
Why?
Because communication is such ahuge part of a relationship.
Like without communicationthere is no relationship or it
will eventually break down.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
And I'm glad you said that.
I'm so glad you said that.
I'm going to tell you why thereare people on this earth that
believe that we don't have tocommunicate to get along, we
don't have to share things withone another in order for us to
coexist in a relationship.
And so you're saying it's not arelationship.
(11:58):
Okay, and I'm glad you'resaying that, because I don't
disagree with you, but I justreally want to put that out
there because there's somepeople that have that mindset
yeah, next.
Next question, or do you want to?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
go.
Well, let me say something,because I didn't address your
question.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And for those who are listening.
Yes, I'm struggling becausethis is not.
I have not out loud talkedabout the estranged relationship
with my family.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That has been something that's been very
secret, very internal, betweenthem and me.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And, of course, you.
So I'm trying to find my wordsfor things that I'm talking out
loud for the first time.
The emotions I went through Iwas angry, I was disappointed, I
was sad, I was frustrated um, Ifelt empowered at times, and I
think that was a false sense ofempowerment.
(12:49):
More like you can get throughthis, so I but I learned a lot
of things along the way.
It gave me time to reflect andreally think about things.
I definitely missed her, right,and you get clarity.
I think it's the same.
It's the same outcome as apause.
(13:12):
This was a super long pause,though, but see, here's the
thing.
You mentioned communication.
I didn't stop communicating,though.
What I mean is I wasn'tcommunicating with her.
I was communicating with myselfand asking questions, talking
to you about it and just gettingit out and sorting it through,
and my big communication duringthat time and still is is being
(13:37):
in prayer, because I had to holdon to hope.
I just knew that this was nothow this relationship was
supposed to be, but I also knewthat it had to change, right.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Pretty deep stuff there and I see how it's hard to
unpack that in real time.
And, guys, I'm going to bereally honest with you, I did
not give jen any briefing onthis, so, uh, she, she's really
struggling right here right now,in front of all of us.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So thank you in advance for understanding.
Bear with us yeah, um.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
So, jen, give me some understanding of once you
realize that this needs to come.
And I'm not asking for detailsand I know some people probably
want some, but you know thatthat's not.
That's neither here or there.
We're trying to learn somethinghere.
We're trying to learn when youhave to tell end of this and you
(14:33):
realize there's a way into aproductive and healed
relationship.
What was the thought process?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Say that one more time, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You have to tell end of this estranged relationship.
You see, there's hope for thereto be healing and a complete
relationship.
What is this?
What is the thought process?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
well the thought process I knew when um I had
asked, said I want thisrelationship to be healed, and I
know that there are things thatI'm responsible and need to
take accountability for as well.
So let me focus on that.
First and foremost, I needed tobe open, and just open to at
(15:23):
any time, because we are family,we are going to see each other,
we are going to talk and do Icontinue with the small talk or
do we build a new baseline bytalking about the things that
we've ignored and really makingthe time and putting in the
(15:46):
energy and the thoughtfulnessand opening up my heart with
understanding and grace so wecan get to that space of being
healthy?
Right, I mean I wanted, Iwanted to be able to tell my mom
I love you, but that was not,that was not normal language
(16:06):
between her and I.
Right, and um, yeah, and so ifsomeone had told me I held him
right now, if someone had toldme 20 years ago that my mom and
I would be in the kind ofrelationship that we're in now,
I believe in miracles, so Iprobably would have said, okay,
that's a miracle, but I believein them.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I just don't see how that's going to happen right,
yeah, um, I I have to give myside of it because, uh, I was
going through this at the sametime you were going through it
and and it was, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
No, yeah, I wanted to ask that because I'm not alone
in this.
What impacts me, impacts you.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
And so to have your side and your perspective of
this breakdown.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
You know what was that like?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It was tough, and not for me, but it was tough for me
to watch you go through it.
It was.
It was tough to see a woman whois so freely giving feelings,
emotions, love, and watching younot be able to give that, not
(17:22):
be able to call out those things.
I love you, um, come by, or canI come by, or I'm, I'm in the
neighborhood and we had had, youknow, glimpses of that early in
our relationship and then thatit was abruptly taken away for
(17:42):
whatever reason.
And that it was abruptly takenaway for whatever reason, and
all I could do at that momentwas really just be there.
Sometimes you just didn't wantany advice.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You didn't want to hear rationale or how to fix it.
It's probably the emotion ofbeing mad, yeah, or?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
betrayed, right yeah, and, in all honesty, there were
times when I knew it's notgoing to get fixed right now.
We just got to wait until theright time.
In terms that you canunderstand is when it's raining,
when it's flooding and stormingoutside and you know it's
(18:24):
dangerous to go outside rightnow.
If I leave the house right now,I could risk my own life.
It was that bad in terms of howthe relationship was going, and
so I was very conscious to say,hey, let's not go out there
right now, let's not try to workthis out just yet.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It's not safe absolutely, you're really good
about that.
And then you were.
I noticed when you nudged oryou would bring something up,
and it was very helpful to beable to talk things out with you
and just ask the questions andof course you weren't judging
(19:08):
yet you were firm and clearabout men.
Maybe you didn't agree with mytrain of thought, or you gave me
another thought process right,another perspective.
Thought process right, yeah,another perspective.
(19:29):
So that was really helpful.
And I have to say this,journaling during that time was
huge for me.
Like I remember some of theprompts that would come my way,
like without thinking of no, orthere's this barrier, or that
could never happen.
Just having a vision of what ahealthy relationship with my mom
would be like, like, yeah, whatdoes that feel like, what does
(19:53):
it look like?
And to be today in that ispretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, and I'll say this I just have to take a page
out of my strained relationrelationship every time I got to
a point to where and I try notto let let it linger and last
too long but what I started torealize is that I'm blaming, I'm
(20:20):
being blamed and we're just inthis vicious cycle yeah and you.
It just feels like it's neverending that the go around and
turn around like, well, you didthis and, but you didn't do this
, you didn't do that, and youdon't see it my way and you
don't, I don't see it your way,and, and so what I finally came
(20:43):
to the conclusion is I can'tcontrol you, you can't control
me, but I can control me and youcan control you.
And if we work really, reallyhard at just doing that, one
simple act, me controllingmyself and giving grace where
(21:04):
it's needed, because nobody'sever going to make all the best
decisions, all the rightdecisions and you know, like you
said, we're family and I and Ijust really want to nail this
one home and then I'm gonna passit over to you, but, um, we are
nicer to complete and totalstrangers and that truth,
(21:28):
sometimes most of the time andsome of these strangers have
done heinous things to us,called us out of our names,
talked about our families, uh,attempt to hurt our children, um
, I mean, the list is verylengthy and it's very deep and
we still figure out a way todeal with that person.
(21:51):
But the person that is in ourfamily, who we know, if we just
sit for a few seconds and saythat's just not an evil person,
that's not a person that reallywants to do harm to me.
But we're willing to hold andharbor these feelings and I just
think it'd be a little biteasier to just try to look past
(22:12):
that.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
For sure, for sure.
So I have a question for you.
Sure, being estranged to nowbeing back in a relationship
with that person.
What does that shift look like?
What does it consist of?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well for me, first I had to heal myself, and that is
a real thing.
For me, Self-healing isessential.
You have to go through thatprocess in order to move forward
, and that way you know it'scomplete.
(22:59):
If you're banking and hopingthat someone else can heal you
or help you through someemotional baggage that you've
created yourself or you'veallowed to happen in a
relationship between two people,and that person is off doing
their own thing, you have to beable to reflect on what's going
(23:20):
to better you, what's going toaid you in being a better person
.
So that's the starting point,first and foremost.
And then second and I'll makethis short is just taking that
first step to say I want to workpast this, I want to work
through this, I want to makesure that I don't live here for
the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, and I'd like to add to that.
And I'd like to add to that,using this story with my mom, I
knew that we had to redefinewhat was normal for us, because
what was normal before wasn'tworking Right.
(24:10):
To take place between her and Iand I agree with you, corey,
self-healing absolutely a must.
Forgiveness, compassion onyourself needs to take place,
because then you can extend thatto the other person, right?
And what really just got me isthat we allowed so much time to
be taken from us when it wasreally actions done by other
people, right, you know what Imean.
So I knew that when my mom andI were building back our
(24:34):
relationship, we did have or Idid, I'll just speak for myself
I had to express myself.
I had to stay in the moment ofthose emotions and welcome them
and relive some of the thingsthat I didn't want to, you know,
bring back.
But I knew that I had to rightand just hear her.
(24:55):
It wasn't time for me to ventabout it again.
I've done that before.
so here's the thing you got tochange your approach yeah if you
want to change this, change asituation, that's like a must
and also be aware of like okay,these are the things that got us
estranged.
(25:16):
Let me be very thoughtful andintentional about my future
actions and the things that Isay, and not be careless.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Because you don't want to go back.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Right, absolutely, and I agree a hundred percent.
As a matter of fact, I was, justbefore you said that, sitting
here saying we probably shouldcall out what's abnormal first
to ourselves, not to one anotherand and if you can say you know
what, that's probably not themost baseline thing or the
(25:46):
normal thing that I could say orthat she could say or that they
could say.
So I want to approach thatdifferently, um, in the future,
and it might not be the bestidea to call it out right away,
but you're just talking toyourself like, okay, I just got
yelled at for absolutely noreason.
(26:06):
That's not a normal situationthat I'm used to.
I haven't been yelled at ineons by my mom, sister, brother.
Yeah, you know, whatever it is.
And here we are in thisposition.
So then, moving forward, youcould say I'm going to address
(26:26):
that if this should happen again, and if it happens again, be
prepared.
Hey, you know, let's refrainfrom yelling at each other and
then move on quickly.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, and we didn't.
We didn't say the F word hereand it's not what everyone
thinks.
It's forgiveness, oh yeah yeahum, and not just an action, but
truly from the heart,forgiveness and just releasing
the walls that you've built up,the thoughts you've already
(27:00):
formed, the assumptions you'vemade.
Like that has to be released.
Um, and so, yeah, and it's, andit's worth the work and calling
things out respectfully and inlove, so you don't have to go
through the whole thing again.
Um, and I just want to say thatI love that we're having this
(27:24):
topic right now, because, yes,it's september, but before you
know it, it's like time for theholidays yeah and I miss being
with my family.
There was a time where me, mybrother and sister were not in
the same place with my mom.
Like seriously, my mom had togo spend time with different
(27:46):
kids at different times.
It was that bad, and just overthe weekend we were together and
it was beautiful and it was funLaughter yeah.
I mean and you know, I know wealways say this, but I just I
don't care.
I don't care if it's repeatedinformation, we don't get the
time back no, we don't you justgotta ask yourself, like, is it
(28:10):
really worth the lost time,right?
um, when you love somebody, yes,it's worth figuring it out and
forgiving and talking it out andworking it out and being
together in partnership, andagain, quickly, not taking your
(28:31):
time.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Time is a commodity, like you said, you can't get it
back.
And once you know that, insteadof wasting time and throwing
away time, being mad andreliving the same story over and
over and over every day, everyother day, every christmas,
every thanksgiving, move forwardquickly well, can you say more
(28:56):
about that?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
because, um, I think there was too much time lost
there, but I also knew thereneeded to be time separate.
So what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
as far as quickly, so in any situation that has gone
awry we know the part that we'veplayed the best thing to do is
heal.
Heal yourself first, quicklyokay, got you and it's up to
that other person to healthemselves.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
And yes, okay, I hear you because we can take the
time just ruminating yeah andtelling that story over and over
and over yeah and then you justget sucked in and it gets
deeper and darker.
Okay, I got you now.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
It's a vicious cycle that we can't get out of
everybody we talk to we'retelling that story.
Yeah, every every time we got amoment to ourselves, we're
telling ourselves that.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Absolutely so.
I think for me, as we come toan end, I would really hope and
encourage you who are listening,and if someone or something has
come to your mind, honor it.
Stay there, like what is thatabout?
(30:22):
So stay there, like what isthat about?
How do I start the self-healingprocess?
What do I need to do?
What does this look like?
And just start on that smallstep.
(30:43):
Yeah, I think time is verylimited.
I mean it's not and that's notlike a ooh, that was deep.
I mean we all know this.
And it's so funny because thethings we know we take for
granted, and I've seen thishappen one too many times in my
life and other people's lives,where they always regret that
(31:03):
they didn't do what they weresupposed to do and then it was
too late, you know, and thatreally reminds me of our weekend
.
I love the honor in the life ofour cousin while she's still
alive, right, yeah, and not itnot being something that's
shared after her life is over.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
We literally gave her her flowers while she's still
alive.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yes, yes, is there anything you want to say before
we close?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
No, jen, this has been a great episode.
I mean, I do want to mentionthis and I hate to throw this in
there on top of that, so Iwon't do it.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
All right.
Well, everybody, we hope thatyou have a good week and that
you take good care of yourselvesand each other.
Yeah, you know us to take theelevator.
We say look up and let'selevate.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know everybody's wondering what I was going to
say look up and let's elevateEvery day.
You know everybody's wonderingwhat I was going to say right
yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Every day.
I personally was thinkingyou're going to be getting
announced Every day, but I'llnever know Next time.
Every day, every day.
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