Reed Mathis Unveils the Rhythm and Spirit of True Musical Creativity

In an insightful discussion on the "Tales from the Green Room" podcast, Reed Mathis provides host Dennis Strazulo and listeners with a detailed preview of his upcoming podcast series “The Gifts of Improvising” which debuts January 29, 2024 on the Osiris Media Podcast Network. Reed opens the door to a new, profound exploration of the role and challenge of artists as they navigate improvising the music of their heroes and legends, analyzed in detail during discussions with fellow musicians throughout 12 introspective episodes. Reed delves into the dynamics of the jam band scene and the authenticity of spontaneous musical creation. 

Previously connected with iconic projects like Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey and Tea Leaf Green, and with artists including Steve Kimock, Billy Strings, and Bill Kreutzmann, Reed shares the conception and evolution of his podcast with refreshing candor and excitement - describing it not merely as an exploration of improvisation but as a spotlight on the reenactment versus innovation debate within music. Listen as Reed challenges the norm of merely quoting musical heroes and urges a portrayal of personal truth through music. The essence of his message is about fostering a space where musicians are encouraged to "play themselves," offering a raw reflection of their true, creative essence rather than adhering strictly to established templates.

The soon to be released series features an impressive roster of musicians, each bringing their unique experiences and insights to light, including: Joe Russo, Marco Benevento, Steve Kimmock, Adam McDougald, and Jay Lane taking a deep dive into musical philosophies and personal anecdotes that reveal much about these beloved names in music.

“The Gifts of Improvising” also includes a touching homage to Phil Lesh, featuring reflections from Natalie Cressman, Elliot Peck, and Grahame Lesh - a moving tribute to Lesh’s indelible impact on both Mathis’s own career and the broader music landscape. 

Enjoy this discussion as Reed muses about the art and joy of truly improvising in anticipation of his podcast release.

Links

https://www.instagram.com/reedmathis/

https://www.facebook.com/reed.mathis.5/

http://www.youtube.com/@reedmathis4623

https://www.osirispod.com/podcasts/

Music

LazyLightning55a YouTube Channel:
Reed Mathis’ Electric Beethoven - 10/26/16 - MP Williamsburg

Photo by Stefanie Atkinson Schwartz 

 

Episode Transcript

Dennis (00:01):
Welcome to Tales from the Green Room. Backstage
conversations from popular musicvenues around the country
curated by Mount Tam Media.Listen in as host Dennis
Trouszullo and Mount Tam Mediafounder Tammy Larson dig up
conversations with artistsbefore and after shows in the
exclusive confines of the GreenRoom.

tami (00:33):
host:Improvisation. Improvisation.

Dennis (00:36):
Improvisation. No. No. Improvisation. Very good.
Well, good thing that we're notgonna talk about that.

tami (00:43):
Are we are we? Yeah.

Dennis (00:44):
We're recording.

tami (00:45):
Oh, shit.

Dennis (00:45):
It's okay. You start at the beginning. Oh, god. This is
how we loosen up on air, so tospeak.

tami (00:53):
Oh, oh, so we're gonna go ahead and

Dennis (00:55):
Let's do
it from here. Ready?

tami (00:56):
Okay. Well, hello, Dennis.

Dennis (00:59):
Well, hello, Tammy. I almost said Dolly.

tami (01:02):
Don't be your own material.

Dennis (01:05):
Anyway, hello. Hi. So what are we doing here today?

tami (01:10):
Well, I'm extremely envious that, I was back east
visiting my daughter while youand stuff went and conducted
this interview with Reid Mathisbecause in editing it and being
able to really get into all ofit and while I'm reading it as
well, while I'm editing it, itwas so good. His metaphors and

(01:32):
just the his insight, I justloved it. I just really love it.

Dennis (01:37):
It's very

tami (01:37):
different than a lot of our numbers because he's
dimensional and a little bitlike Kimmok who, obviously, he
has played with and you canelaborate on that a little bit.
But it it was very much thatsame vibe. I felt like I was
sitting in, a philosophy classand learning all of these things
that I hadn't really thought of.He just has a way of describing

(01:59):
things from a completelydifferent angles, and sometimes
we'll bring it all backtogether, and it's just fun.
That's what I would say aboutthis.
It's fun.

Dennis (02:07):
It is fun. It's educational. I mean, for so
we're gonna say this is yourfavorite interview that you did
not conduct.

tami (02:14):
Yeah. Because I was I was there as I was at Kim. And I
don't know. They're all gettingto be so good as

Dennis (02:19):
it's so hard to say what's my favorite. I think, you
know, when I'm there talking tohim and interviewing, it's a
discussion more than aninterview, really.

tami (02:25):
Yeah.

Dennis (02:26):
And I'm listening, and then it's over. Right? But then
you sit with it and

reed (02:29):
you're in

Dennis (02:30):
the production and you're listening and editing,
and all of a sudden, you'regetting down and dirty with with
all of it. And but you're you'retotally correct

tami (02:37):
because I'm editing out all your ums and ahs.

Dennis (02:39):
That's really fun. Okay. Anyway, so what we did here,
first of all, let's just leadthis up. Reid is releasing his
own podcast series, and it isentitled The Gifts of
Improvising. And it's going torelease on January 29 on Osiris

(02:59):
Radio, the Osiris PodcastNetwork.
hi there im finMhmm.
Osiris Media, I think, is the official name. And so
here we are today, the talesfrom the Green Room podcast
promoting Reid's podcast, and Iam just so happy to do it
because what what I told him,during the even during the
interview, I said, this is gonnabe like, a 45 intro It is too.

(03:23):
To your podcast Yeah. Which youdon't get to do. They'd be like
us sitting here for forty fivefor forty five minutes.
We're already too long. Don'tmake me laugh anymore. We're
already too long on this one.But, you know, but it's a
separate episode, and he he justhe's been living with this for
years, really, ever since he's

tami (03:40):
10 or 15, I think.

Dennis (03:41):
At least. Yeah. He said, anybody that'll listen,
including spouses, significantothers, whoever was in the room,
who's gonna listen to me onthis? And it I I found it fast.
I also thought Reid and I toldhim this.
I'm not sure if I did it duringthe interview or afterwards, but
I said, I just found him to beone of the most intelligent

tami (03:58):
Oh, he's brilliant. Yeah. You can tell.

Dennis (03:59):
Yeah. Musicians that we've interviewed. Yeah. And I
what I told him was I love yourmetaphors.

tami (04:04):
Well, yeah. That's right. Yeah. They're they're great.

Dennis (04:06):
Yeah. You like my metaphors? I said I do. And so
he comes from this angle thatwas amazing. So and what he did
in this 12 part series, heinterviews other musicians.
Mhmm. So it's musician tomusician talking about
improvising. And I don't, youknow, I don't wanna say the lost
art because it it's really Iguess the the key to it is it's

(04:29):
not imitating people, but it'susing the your your heroes maybe
as your baseline, as your form,but then making it your own. I
mean, that's Yeah.

tami (04:37):
I guess I'll only talk about one thing that kinda
really stood out, which was,that the musicians are getting a
little bit comfortable in termsof, some of these cover bands
and and doing, you know, whatJerry and with the Grateful Dead
have been you know, what theydid and not making it their own
as much. And he brings up thefact that, you know, Phil just

(05:00):
passed, and having Phil on theticket, that's that's helpful.
But everybody really needs tostart considering and rethinking
about how they're playing thismusic. And, he doesn't do it in
a degrading sort of he just isinsightful about this and has
been thinking about this,ruminating. Right?
So, that's really where he goeswith this podcast, and it's

(05:23):
great. It is a perfect intro.

Dennis (05:25):
Yeah. And so and he just loved doing it. It was really
you know, I've seen we've seenReed around. It's alright. We've
seen Reed around, you know, thethe scene here in the Bay Area.
And this is, one thing I likeabout him. We know him a little
bit, but now we know him better.Mhmm. Enough to talk and chat
with him, etcetera. But, youknow, here's a guy who one day

(05:45):
is playing with Bill Kreutzmanor Billy Strings or Phil Lesh in
the past or Steve Kimmock.
Mhmm.
And then the next day, he's hanging out, you know, at
the Junction Beer Garden

reed (05:54):
Yeah.

Dennis (05:54):
And watching the music with everybody, and he's just a
he's a cool cat.

tami (05:58):
He really is cool. So the first time I ever really I mean,
I think I've gone to see TeaLeaf Green, I'm pretty sure,
together way back. But when Ireally noticed him was when I,
saw Billy Strings for the firsttime before he really went
crazy. And, and so I went homeafter seeing Billy Strings play,
and I watched every single BillyStrings video. And one of them

(06:19):
was Kurtzman.
It was in in Friends, I believe.

Dennis (06:21):
Billy and the kids.

tami (06:22):
Billy and the kids. Mhmm. And and he stood out to me. I
mean, of course, Billy'splaying, but because he just
moves, his hair was blowing inthe in the wind. It was an
outdoor concert, and just hemoves so so cool with his
guitar.
And I kept going back to himwhen I was watching that. Oh,
that's cool.

Dennis (06:40):
That reminds me of something. So, we have a a
friend named Lisa Gorman whosehusband is Ari Gorman, a bass
player himself. Yeah. And ourLisa used to work for me years
ago. Now she is at, Eventbrite.
Mhmm.
Is that correct? No. Plug.

tami (06:54):
Those are my good friends.

Dennis (06:55):
Yeah. That's right. Working for the general
counsel's office. So hello, Lisaand Ari. But at the I'm just
laughing at this because we usedto go, to shows and Lisa would
be there, and she would point toReid.
She goes, see see how Reid doesit? How he treats his hips when
he plays? That's what Ari needsto do. Sorry, Reid.

tami (07:16):
I totally remember that.

reed (07:17):
I did

Dennis (07:18):
I was gonna bring that up to you.

tami (07:19):
Oh my god. Okay. We digress.

Dennis (07:20):
Well, no. We digress. But he does. He well, I mean,
he's he's soulful, but he comesfrom Yeah. But he comes from a
jazz background.

tami (07:27):
There you go.

Dennis (07:27):
And so do many of the people he interviewed. And and
here's something interesting.This whole idea of doing this
podcast with Reed came up atSweetwater hanging out in the
alleyway. You know? Mhmm.

tami (07:38):
Yeah. And the way they keep they can find us there
anytime.

Dennis (07:41):
Anywhere things happen, you know, as you're going on
stage. And I thought it was justone of these nights he was just
coming to hang out. He goes, no.I'm sitting in. He was sitting
in with Pink Talking Fish.

tami (07:49):
Oh, yeah. Another cool one.

Dennis (07:51):
We had seen, a year prior, Libo

reed (07:53):
sat

Dennis (07:53):
in with Pink Talking Fish. So now it was Reid's turn
and talk about, improvising. Youknow, those guys.

reed (07:58):
Yeah.

Dennis (07:59):
He was amazing. And, of course, when he did so, he was
off the hook.

tami (08:02):
Yeah.

Dennis (08:03):
And and the other Reed was a known as a bass player.

tami (08:07):
Yes.

Dennis (08:07):
And here's something I learned in the podcast. I'm I
don't care if I'm giving it awayhere. He picked up playing
guitar really for the firsttime. I don't know if it's the
first time, but he reallypracticed and picked up playing
the guitar during COVID.

tami (08:18):
Not the bass. Do you mean

Dennis (08:20):
the The guitar. The just the not the bass guitar, but he
just

tami (08:23):
No. Just yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Dennis (08:24):
He started playing the guitar, not the bass Right.
During COVID. And he wouldn't Imean, the way the guy plays

reed (08:29):
the guitar.

tami (08:30):
Well, they're both guitars.

Dennis (08:31):
I well, that's true. And he will tell you, well, the bass
guitar versus Whatever. Not abass guitar. But, the thing is
he'll tell and then people cometo him now and go, oh, Reed, I
thought you played bass. And hefinally says, I just play music.
You know? But it is and it Ithink he was being modest
because he

tami (08:47):
Yeah. He really

Dennis (08:48):
picks us up. So he he's good.

tami (08:50):
Very talented.

Dennis (08:51):
Alright. So, there are 10 episodes and many guests. I
think he has some double upguests on his, series that comes
out. I'm gonna name some of themJoe Russo.

reed (09:00):
Mhmm.

Dennis (09:00):
I think is the one he starts with, and then he goes
deep with Jay Lane. Mhmm. Butdon't we all in our podcast?

tami (09:07):
Yeah. If you ever need something some interesting
topics.

Dennis (09:10):
Yeah. So he he really, got down and dirty with Jay. Tom
Hamilton was a guest. HollyBowling Mhmm. Was on.
And then he had, Robert Walkerand Mike Clark of the
Headhunters, which is the oldHerbie Hancock.

reed (09:21):
I suppose.

Dennis (09:21):
Originates I mean, yeah. So talk about jazz. Scarrick was
on that episode too. There'ssomeone we've interviewed also
in the past. And and speaking ofthat, Elliot Peck was one of his
guests as was, Natalie Cressmanand Graham Loesch and Steve
Kimmock, of course.
Right? And let's not forget AdamMcDougall, and there's some
others.
So Yeah.

tami (09:41):
So so, I mean, yeah, you'll he'll they'll hear all
about this, but it is a 12 partseries. Yes. And he's very
focused on, you know, musiciansthat have jazz backgrounds as
well. Absolutely. Right?
So, that's sort of a a coollittle niche.

Dennis (09:54):
Yeah. And I think he also relates it, not only to
music but to life. Mhmm. And Ireally like that about it. So
Reed Mathis, thanks for sittingdown.
Here is your intro for yourpodcast, which again is the
gifts of improvising. Yes.Alright. And not

tami (10:11):
anything else. Improvisation.

Dennis (10:12):
Not improvisation. No.

tami (10:13):
No. Improv improvisation.

Dennis (10:15):
Improvisation. We had a little back Improvisation. We
had a little back and forth inthat he and I because I I had it
wrong. And, you know, it's noteven advertised yet, so I'm
trying to figure out the name ofthe thing, but he corrected me.

tami (10:26):
And Yeah. He did.

Dennis (10:27):
And he said, listen. I it's nitpicky, but Yeah. This is
it. The gifts of improvising.

tami (10:31):
I edited that just a little bit.

Dennis (10:33):
No. Whatever. Yeah. Anyway, Reed, thank you. And,
everyone listen to this intro tohis podcast.

REED INTRO (10:38):
What's up, Brooklyn?

REED (10:54):
So we're real honored

reed (10:55):
to make music with y'all today. But before we get going,
I just wanna tell y'all a littlebit about what what we mean by
being here.

REED (11:08):
Sometimes an outsider makes some great art, and
everybody says it's awesome. Andthen it becomes inside, and only
insiders the crowd when itstarted as outsiders. So

reed (11:41):
our job,

REED (11:45):
your job. Is to let that music be the voice of the
outsiders, where it came from,the wrong kind of person, the
wrong kind of music, and revel

reed (12:07):
in being unique. That's

REED (12:10):
what we're about.

reed (12:11):
That's what Ludlow Vamedevan was about, and that's
our point.

REED (12:17):
Don't do it right. Do it true. Do it real.

Dennis (12:59):
Here we go. Alright. Reid Mathis, welcome to Tales
from the Green Room.

REED (13:03):
I'm so excited. I've been waiting years.

Dennis (13:06):
At least two. Right? That's Yeah.
Well, we did have you on a little cameo, and it I wanted
to say it was the you know, itwas Brian Melvin. Did you come
and play with

REED (13:17):
Brian Melvin. I

Dennis (13:18):
Did you? That was you there.

REED (13:19):
Yeah. I did at his birthday

Dennis (13:21):
show

REED (13:22):
Yes. At Sweetwater.

Dennis (13:24):
So you popped in. You're nice enough to pop in. You know
what we asked you that that youdid a
nice little dissertation on Terrapin

REED (13:29):
and what that Oh, did I?

Dennis (13:30):
And what meant meant to you,
what Phil meant
to you, and that's that is in fact
the, subject of entire podcast. We have, including you,
over 40 people we've interviewedwith little sound bites on the
Terrapin impact. It's gonna beamazing. Yeah. So we're gonna
put you in on that one.
But this is this one's comingout first. Uh-huh. And it's our

(13:50):
one focusing on you, ReedMathis. You are gonna have your
own podcast.

REED (13:56):
It's true. Gifts of improvising.

Dennis (13:58):
Okay. So there we go.

REED (14:00):
Which are it sounds nitpicky, but it's actually a
very different subject.

reed (14:06):
You know

REED (14:06):
what I mean? I That kinda gets to the crux of it,
actually.

Dennis (14:09):
For. No.

REED (14:09):
Because, you know, the the real subject of the of the
podcast isn't reallyimprovisation. The real that's
the Trojan horse.

Dennis (14:18):
Okay.

REED (14:18):
The real subject of the podcast is reenactment. Why do
so many people that that purportthemselves to be improvisers
just quote their heroes?

Dennis (14:30):
Exactly. You know what I mean?

REED (14:31):
Like, how many brilliant musicians that devote their life
to their instrument and theircraft never stop quoting their
parents, basically, as far asthe musicians they know Emulate.
Emulate. Like, that's somethat's a necessary part of
learning the language to emulateyour heroes. And you, you know,

(14:52):
it's a necessary part oflearning an instrument and
learning a tradition. But it'sit's, the players we all
remember after their death, youknow, are people that spoke
personally through theirinstrument.
Not it's it's not like you can'ttell who their influences are

(15:12):
because they're not quotingthem. They're talking about
themselves. They're playingthemselves, you know? And I feel
like whenever you get to, like,the core of sort of a a the cult
that surrounds a a genre, youknow, you start getting into the
same problems that churcheshave, where it's fundamentalists

(15:35):
and progressives, kind of. Andthere are fundamentalists are
usually the people who take theword of God literally.
They're like, this is literallytrue. And they they treat a
genre that way as well. You knowwhat I mean? Like, oh, this
genre is literally this. If youare playing this song, it's
literally this tempo.
You literally use this kind ofguitar. You know what I mean?

(15:56):
Like all those things as ifthey're true about the song when
really that's just somebody'ssubjective version from some
time, you know? So anyway, thethe real subject of the podcast
is I'm getting all theseimprovisers who are in the
Grateful Dead world, sort of jamband world, but they're not from
that world. They're coming frommore of a jazz upbringing.

(16:20):
And all these people, Joe Russo,Marco Benevento, you know, Jay
Lane,

Dennis (16:24):
Jay Lane for sure.

REED (16:25):
Myself, like, there there's this whole wave of
players that kinda came up inthe nineties and early two
thousands that are now playingGrateful Dead music, which is
very improvised. But they didn'tstart there. They all they have
you know what I mean? So I'mbasically talking to those
people, and I'm talking about,a, what does it feel like to

(16:45):
innovate in a situation withfundamentalists? Wow.

Dennis (16:51):
What a great analogy.

REED (16:52):
Like, what if everybody's copying the Grateful Dead
verbatim except you on thatstage?

reed (16:56):
Do you

REED (16:57):
know what I mean? Oh. Like, what do you do? And, you
know, and then there's, like,basically what I don't know. I
just try to get people going onthat subject.

Dennis (17:08):
Well, I bet you
do. So let let me let me ask I'm gonna back up
a bit. So the gifts of improvising. Improvising,
the verb, and
that makes a big difference. And you say it
sounds

REED (17:19):
Because improvising is you. Yeah. Improvisation is
that. It.

reed (17:22):
Yeah.

REED (17:22):
But improvising is you. And the thing the funny you

Dennis (17:25):
should say about the the nitpicking on the words Yeah.
Because I when I was thinkingwhen you first told me in the
Sweetwater Alley, you weretelling me about this, and I
heard the art of improvising
Oh, yeah. Improvisation. But I thought
and then I saw the gift.
There's a difference there too. Right? The art of
improvising.

REED (17:41):
Well, it's not the gift of the improviser. Yeah. It's the
gift of improvise. It's whatimprovising does for you.

Dennis (17:47):
For the audience or for

REED (17:48):
the Yeah. For for you. Yes. For you. Yeah.
Whoever you are. Like, inimprovisation being part of your
life Right. Is bears fruit. Youknow? You get you get you get
life force from it.
You it it can teach you howwell, I mean, at the at the most
direct level, it teaches youwhat to do when when things
don't go to plan. Yeah. Itteaches you how to handle not

(18:11):
getting your way. It helps youso that when you get blindsided
by something, you're not knockeddown. You pivot.
You know? Yeah. You yes and, youknow, as Tina Fey famously said.
You know? Yeah.
I mean, it's that's the gift ofthat's one of the gifts of it.

Dennis (18:27):
One of it. And and the other thing
I was thinking on the nitpicky part, I was gonna
need to pick the title too. Yeah. After I screwed
it up or before I screwed
it up. But the gifts,

REED (18:36):
plural. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Dennis (18:37):
This is because they it's they're the gifts that keep
on giving.
I suppose

REED (18:41):
The yeah. I mean, the subject of the podcast is
basically why this is importantYeah. And why we don't wanna
lose it, why it's not the samething as copying an improviser.

Dennis (18:51):
Got it.

REED (18:51):
Copying an improviser and improvising are not the same
thing. So say, the the elephantin the room, Jerry Garcia, great
improviser. Is copying himimprovising? No. It's copying
him is a is a useful way tostudy his instrument, his
psyche, to study the way amaster musician approaches
things.
And study the way you handletrauma. Like there's so many

(19:13):
things you can learn from avirtuoso. But he wasn't copying
his heroes verbatim. He wasplaying it. He sounds like him.
You never hear him playing.You're like I wonder who that
is. Like you know that's him.You know? And so it's like yeah.
The gifts of improvising aredifferent than the gifts of

(19:35):
improvisers.

Dennis (19:36):
Okay.
And and and you're talking about playing your
truth. Yeah. Was that fair?

REED (19:41):
Yeah. Exactly. The one of the interviews in the I think
it's, like, the fifth episode.Robert Walter is I try to get
him to really articulate. Youknow?
He's like he's like, when I seea performance, that's what I
wanna see is, like, I wanna knowwho this person is. I don't
wanna know what their what theywanna be. I don't wanna know

(20:02):
what their record collectionlooks like. I don't wanna know
what their concept is. I wannaknow who they are.
I wanna know who they are whenthey're not trying to be
something.

Dennis (20:10):
Right.

REED (20:10):
Like, who are you really, you know?

Dennis (20:13):
Okay. Good. So we're you're let's go back to the

REED (20:15):
Whereas the genre gives is like a costume. A a lot of the
the way a lot of people treatit. They don't treat it like a
like a, you know, like a placeto embark from. They treat it
like a set of rules. Right.
You know? And Manners. Yeah.Like, this this is correct
bluegrass. This is incorrectbluegrass.
This is here is the line. If youdo it with, you know, the the

(20:36):
Bob Dylan movie is is in theZeitgeist right now, and that's
what he showed better thananybody. No kidding. You know?
He's like they're like, well,this is your acoustic foe.
Yeah. And he was like, eat mydust. Yeah. Like, what are you
talking about? You know?
Yeah. And that's so the othersubject of the podcast is Dylan
because he, even more than theGrateful Dead, he didn't really

(21:01):
leave something you can reenact.Do you know what I mean? Like
like, there isn't a main versionof him. If there would be, I
guess you would say it would bethe first version, but he so
openly rejected it while still ayoung man.
So, you know and he never sangin such a way that you wanna

(21:22):
copy it, as a you know what Imean? It's like people can spend
their lives trying to sing likeAretha Franklin, and that's a
noble pursuit. Like, Ravi Shanktrying to play like Ravi
Shankar, one of these totalmaestros. But Dylan didn't do
that. Dylan didn't give you avoice to aim for.
He he gave you permission to nothave a perfect voice.

reed (21:42):
Same thing the dead did.

Dennis (21:43):
And he I wanna say, I mean, he not only did he not
play those songs later on, he hesaid he forgot them. Right.
I I right?

REED (21:50):
And if he plays if he plays one of those songs now
Yeah. It's got a new chordprogression, and it's got two
new verses. And maybe there's achanged word in the chorus. And
it's like, yes. Oh my god.
I saw him play at the frost in2019, and he opened with highway
61, eight new verses. Beautiful.It was just like, goodbye.

Dennis (22:08):
I remember I saw a press conference recently of him.
And have you seen this on YouTube? A press conference?

REED (22:13):
The sixties stuff. Before. Yeah. Where he's just And

Dennis (22:16):
he's just like, I am not,

REED (22:17):
you know, I'm not Pushing back so hard.

Dennis (22:19):
Yeah. Back, and he's cool. He's smoking a cigarette.

REED (22:21):
Yeah. Yeah. It's really it's really gorgeous until he
starts to look really kindareally beat down towards toward,
you know, towards 66.

Dennis (22:29):
Yeah. But but that moment, the one I'm talking
about,
I think, is 64, and he's just It's a Wonderful.
He's in his place. After Newport,
the whole thing, you know. Oh, you're so you're
playing a folk rock Right.
They said to him or
and he went, no. I'm not. Right.
Yeah. So

REED (22:44):
You might be hearing folk rock, but that's your ears.

Dennis (22:46):
That's That's not

REED (22:46):
you know?

Dennis (22:47):
Alright. Let me let me go back to the podcast because
I'm gonna say a little bit moreabout it because this is
essentially Danny Eisenberg inthe house. Hello, Danny. Yeah.
Say hi.
Doing it.
Yeah. We're doing it. You're you're allowed to come
and sit and talk and whateveryou want.
What's your name on that? Yeah. Danny Isenberg, come
on in. So with the podcast, youget to do

(23:07):
a little, you know, ten five minute intro or maybe not
even that long.
This is gonna be, like, a forty five minute intro
to it. What now? Thirty minutes.
Whatever it is.
But this is great. Right? So you could really
explain it. But tell us this,just the nuts and bolts. 10
episodes, is it?
12. 12 episodes.

REED (23:23):
Mhmm.

Dennis (23:23):
Alright. 12 episodes, and it's gonna come out.

REED (23:25):
The first one is January 29, and they're gonna come out
every Wednesday

Dennis (23:29):
Okay.

REED (23:29):
For twelve weeks.

Dennis (23:31):
Beautiful.
On there. On on on Osiris?

REED (23:34):
On Osiris. Alright. And, yeah, each of some of them have
one interviewee. A lot of themhave two. Some of them have a
bunch.
And then some of the later onesget a little elaborate on the
editing.

Dennis (23:48):
You go deep.

REED (23:48):
I go a little deep on the, like, flight in different
sources and having differentpeople read things and just
getting where there's, like, amain interviewee, but then I get
other people talking about thatthat person and I intersperse
that, you know, and, like andthe whole thing scored with
music that I made with Jay Laneand Adam McDougall and Gio
Xavier and Elliot Peck andNatalie Cressman. Wow. So those

(24:09):
tracks are also gonna be comingout the same when every
Wednesday, the podcast episode,and then the soundtrack to that
specific episode will also comeout as a single.

Dennis (24:19):
And I think this is it's very cool.

reed (24:23):
And it

REED (24:23):
and that and those tracks really embody everything we're
talking about, basically. It'salright.

Dennis (24:27):
Let let me give the listeners a little just a second
of background because I thinkyour background led to this.
Right? I mean, your This

reed (24:34):
is musical.

Dennis (24:34):
Yeah. I'm sure all the influences.

REED (24:36):
Yeah. I'm just gonna list them out. My love and my hate.

Dennis (24:38):
You're loving your hate.
And you start with the Jacob Fred and Jacob Fred jazz
odyssey, Tea Leaf Green
Right. Billy and the kids. Right.

REED (24:45):
I mean,

Dennis (24:45):
these are all influencing. Right?
And then playing with what? Mickey Hart.
We talked about Steve Kimlock

reed (24:51):
Of

Dennis (24:51):
course. In here when we first started. The Golden Gate
Wingman.

reed (24:55):
Mhmm.

Dennis (24:55):
Those guys, John Kaye, Trento. Menti, Jay Lane again.
How about your electricBeethoven project?

REED (25:02):
That was so fun.

Dennis (25:03):
I mean, so that's
all I I believe this is all, you know, all
of that plus you became a
fixture in the Bay Area jam band scene and beyond.
Uh-huh. So I'm just guessing that this is altogether
as packaged, and you've beenthinking about this. Living it,
I've been bitching

REED (25:19):
about this with friends and significant others for so
many hours, thousands of hourswhere just like my friends are
like

Dennis (25:33):
You were fucking pissed. They're just

REED (25:34):
like, here he goes again. You know? Like and, like, I
kinda process things out loud,so I need to talk a lot about
when I'm when something'sbothering me. And, like, so,
yeah, it's kinda like the and alot of most of the musicians
I've been interviewing, I'veknown for over twenty years. You
know?

Dennis (25:53):
And it's been ruminating in your head.

REED (25:55):
So yeah.

Dennis (25:55):
It's like well and

reed (25:56):
the thing is in the last

REED (25:59):
ten to fifteen years, really, since I moved to San
Francisco, I've seen I've done alot of good group improvising
here, but I've also seen a lotof very, just sort of comfort
comfort food, maybe, as far asan approach to a traditional

(26:20):
form. And like, I've, I'vereally worried that there's
nothing wrong with that, butI've worried that maybe as a
community, we it's important tome that we remember that there
that's not the same thing. Like,you know, I love Star Wars, you
know? And if some actors gottogether and read the script of
Star Wars, I would be like, thisis awesome. And I'd be having

(26:42):
fun.
You know what I'm saying? Like,I get wanting to trace something
beautiful over and over andover. I love it. I listen to
Charlie Parker. He's been deadsince 1955.
Those recordings aren't gettingany newer. And I still listen to
them over and over and over.That's great. But that's not the
same thing as in as

Dennis (27:01):
in not disrupting. Yeah.

tami (27:03):
Creativity.

REED (27:04):
Right. Although, you know, listening is a creative act, and
you can listen to something overand over and have a different
experience every time. And so,you know, you can listen
creatively without and listen toonly one song for the rest of
your life.

Dennis (27:16):
Flaying. I mean, I think I've heard you
say this before. Weren't the dad and some
of these other weren't they sort of even rock and roll
itself, disruptors. Disruptersof the art. There's like

REED (27:26):
a life cycle that these genres kinda go through. Mhmm.
Where at first, it's, like,rowdy and chaotic and
underground, and people don'tmake money, and it's, like,
really homegrown, and there's norules. And then there's the next
wave where they take thosethings, refine them, put on nice
clothes, and become celebrities.And then there's the third wave

(27:47):
where it becomes standardized,and there's a right and wrong
way to do it.
And, you know, you see classicalmusic go through that. You see
jazz go through it. You see rockand roll go through it. Then you
see hip hop go through it. Everyall these ideas, it's like it's
a natural cycle.
But the thing is, if you're inan orchestra, unless you're

(28:08):
really the conductor or thesoloist, you can't decide to
play Beethoven in a new way. Asimprovisers, we have the ability
to just decide to be new withoutchanging the song. You can you
it's not like, you know, youcould play the same exact song,
but deciding to not referenceyour memory, basically.

Dennis (28:32):
And make it your own.

REED (28:33):
Yeah. Make it something new. Be present with it. It's
like, you know, I mean, theKrishnamurti is like a a a Hindu
teacher or, who talks about,like, being married. He talks
about, like, having a wife, letfor the length of your life.
You know? And, like, how manytimes have you seen her face?
When you you remember falling inlove and everything was magical.
Now you've been married fiftyyears, and you've seen her face

(28:55):
so many fucking times. Can youeven see it?
Because all that memory, the waythe brain works, we're we're
projecting most of what our eyesmost of what we think we're
looking at is projected from ourmemory, from what we expect. If
we actually looked ateverything, we would run out of
energy very quickly. We have tous make a lot of assumptions to

(29:15):
see. And he's basically like,the longer you've been with
something, the more work youmight have to do to look to see
it. You know?
And if, if you've been marriedto somebody or your parents or
something, like, can you seethis person? And, like, the same
thing applies to music. When,like, a song how many times do
you play a song? You know, BillKreutzman is the most amazing

(29:36):
one at this because, man, everytime we play a song how many
times does he play Bertha? We'llcount it off, and it'll he'll
come in very clearly not knowingwhat he's going to do.
He's not like, this is the beatfor Bertha, and then I'll do
variations on it. He's like, howdoes Bertha go? Literally. You

(30:00):
know what I mean?

Dennis (30:00):
Start with the form.
Is it He starts with He starts with

REED (30:05):
present and how do I literally feel right now?

Dennis (30:08):
Today. This moment.

REED (30:09):
Not even today. Not even five minutes ago.

Dennis (30:11):
That's sick.

REED (30:11):
Like, how what am I actually literally feeling?
Like, when you sit there insilence and then you go, you'll
have a feeling. You know what Imean? Like and that's where you
improvise from. The res the thein your body, you have a
response to a sound.
And then so Bill's like ifanybody had a right to be like,

(30:34):
here's how Bertha goes, it'd behim. Right. And he he's like
Dylan. Like, he just does nothave that gear. Yeah.
It's Dylan's not deciding not todo it like before. He is it
that's not who he is. That's notwhat he does. Like and I'm so
the reason I'm doing a podcastis because I'm really imagining

(30:57):
things, but I feel like we're indanger, especially without Phil
Lesh around to sell tickets forus. I think we're in danger of
playing it safe and losingsomething that was a very
important part of the sixties ingeneral, which is improvise real

(31:17):
improvisation.

Dennis (31:18):
Not Improvising. Yeah.

REED (31:20):
Like, not quoting improvisers, but being one
yourself.

Dennis (31:26):
This is interesting. So how these these are musician to
musician interviews. Right? Sohow do you get this message, or
how does it relate to theaudience? You know, somebody
maybe like myself, you know,we're music, lovers.
We love improvisation, but we'renot musicians. Right? And so how

(31:47):
do you speak to that audiencethrough this podcast, I guess,
is my general question becausewell,
let let go with that.
I have a follow-up already.
I mean,

REED (31:58):
the same way I play, which is close my eyes and hope for
the best.

Dennis (32:03):
Okay.

REED (32:03):
You know, like, like, most people that get into the arts
are people that had a that haddamage around learning to
communicate, and they need totake extraordinary measures to
communicate. And I'm not greatat figuring out what somebody

(32:26):
wants and delivering it. I justlike I I shut down if that is on
the table.

Dennis (32:34):
Mhmm.

REED (32:35):
So and as a conversationalist, as a partner,
as a teammate, my only realpoint of strength is if I is if
I let go.

Dennis (32:47):
Yeah. Let go.
Yeah.

REED (32:48):
And basically, like like, like, basically, you know, like,
it's too late. It's too late forme to be what this person wants.
I'm already this. Basically,like, the time for me to learn
how to be what people want haspassed. That ship is 48 years
old.
Yeah. I'm this thing.

Dennis (33:05):
That's what makes you that. Right? Well, this is see
is just listening to the voiceand it that's

REED (33:10):
And it's like but it's it's upsetting because you you
know, we grow up really wantingto be liked. And the way and
we're programmed by millions ofyears of evolution to not be
thrown out of the pack, youknow? So you would die. Before
ten thousand years ago, gettingkicked out of the pack meant
death. So we're literally afraidfor our lives to be socially

(33:33):
ostracized by nature'sprogramming.

Dennis (33:35):
Playing playing for our lives.

REED (33:37):
And so, like, if you happen to be somebody who does
things differently than peopleexpect, it's tough. You know?
Risky.

Dennis (33:47):
It's tough.

REED (33:47):
It's risky. Yeah. And it's like I feel like my only shot is
if my inner nature somehowresembles yours. And the only
way I'm gonna find out is if Ilet my inner nature let you see
it.

Dennis (34:01):
You know? You mentioned Phil and the ticket sales kind
of thing. Yeah. Absolutely. Butit's an interesting thing
because
I think I heard you
I don't
know if you told me. I heard you say this once,
the relationship with the audience going back to that.
Yeah. Aren't you trying to findout why they are paying you
money to improvise? Nope. I meanno.

(34:24):
Okay. That's not I have thatwrong. So I mean, because you're
sitting there
with this audience. There's a lot of audience
connection here, or is therenot? I mean Yeah. Oh,
absolutely.

reed (34:33):
All of it. That's all it is.

Dennis (34:34):
To make sense. That's all it is. Okay. Yeah. So to do
this, But

REED (34:38):
you can't do that on purpose.

Dennis (34:39):
Not on purpose.

REED (34:40):
You know? Right. It's about being present, you know,
and

Dennis (34:44):
Understand and with this.

REED (34:45):
Vulnerable. Like, people can feel when you are trusting
them. So that's the ask thatI've put all my eggs in as a
performer is, like, if I trustthese people with my real self,
they'll be able to feel that.And it will create an atmosphere
of acceptance and celebrationand ease. And that is better

(35:12):
than gratifying expectations.

Dennis (35:16):
Oh, got it.

REED (35:17):
You know? Like

Dennis (35:19):
Toss a pernition.

REED (35:20):
Permit. That's the thing. It's like, you know exactly.
And, like, yeah, when somebodyis vulnerable, it it can start a
chain reaction of people feelingvulnerable. You know?
And, like, that's what, like,church is supposed to be. But so
often, it's a recitation. And Iwanna make sure that this does

(35:41):
not become a recitation. Right.No.
You know what I mean? This issupposed to be an ancient
fucking ritual that is messy andconfusing and passionate and
scary at times. Do you know whatI mean? Yeah.

Dennis (35:53):
And it's like affecting the music Right. That you're
that you're playing. You'replaying
music, but you have to affect it somehow with your own
self.

REED (36:01):
There yes. Like, your real your aliveness. Yeah. Which
might not sound good, or itmight be afraid it doesn't sound
good. Since the age of four, Ihave been recording myself
playing instruments and singing.
And every time I've done it tothis day, I'm like, it sounds
terrible. I'm embarrassingmyself. Who do I think I am? All

(36:23):
of that shit. And then I rewind,play it back, and I'm like, I
fucking love it.
Yeah. Speak real. And I'm justlike, so there's something about
the act of doing it that hurts,kind of. And it's like, I can't
really do anything about that. Iused to drink, and that would
seem to help, but be in

Dennis (36:42):
a world of other problems. Temporarily

REED (36:44):
alleviate that. You just have to get to a point where
you're like, I'm okay with itbeing uncomfortable, like a
first date. You know? Like Yeah.Every time.
Yeah. Exactly. Every time. Firstdate every time. That's
improvising.

Dennis (36:56):
And what about, like, when you're so you're in a band,
improvisational band, let's say,or just a band, and you must
tend to, because of who you are,step out, so
to speak. I don't know if that's the right way.
Step out or or just say, I'm gonna be Speak up. Speak up.

REED (37:11):
Yeah. That's how I always think of it.

Dennis (37:12):
Speak up. Right? Now I'm I'm gonna do something a little
bit that's a
little bit off from you stick with the form, but you're
gonna put yourself into it.You're gonna add your own value.
Yeah. And then what happens Arethere artists in that band? It
depends, I'm sure.

REED (37:26):
It depends. And there's a lot of there's a you could
there's a lot of, like, juststraight up emotional
relationship stuff that you endup confronting when you're
trying to do groupimprovisation, whether you like
it or not, you know? Becauseit's like nobody likes a bossy
person, but nobody really likesa mousy person either. And it's

(37:48):
really it's an that's an artform in itself. Like, how can I
be a good soloist and a goodensemble member and, like

Dennis (38:00):
And still stay within what you're

reed (38:01):
talking about?

REED (38:01):
Kimak Kimak used to say, I I when I was first playing with
him when I was, like, 20 orsomething, and he was like, what
do you want me to do? What whatapproach do you want? And he was
like, I want I want 75% sittingon your hands, 20% interacting

(38:23):
and 5% flexing. I was like, Oh,that's very cohesive. I'd give
you anything.
I mean, like coherent. I mean,that makes sense to me. So, you
know, yeah, I feel like you needto be good at all three things.
You need to be good at keepingyour mouth shut and being
listening. Just because theother person said something that
reminds you of something doesn'tmean you have to say that.

(38:45):
You know, I the older I get, themore I'm like, if I don't jump
in right here, I bet the nextthing they say will be amazing.
And until a week ago, I wouldhave jumped in right here and
said my cool thing. But if Idon't, something better will
probably happen. And the samething happens on stage where
it's like, I could really make amove right now. And if I don't,

(39:06):
what will happen?
You know? And that's half ofimprovising, too, is just
knowing how to not make a move.

Dennis (39:12):
That's really interesting.

REED (39:13):
And not disrupt because somebody else might be getting
ready to do somethingvulnerable, and they would be
spooked if you made a move. Soit's like but you can also go
too far the other way and belike, I don't wanna mess you up.

Speaker 6 (39:26):
I don't wanna mess you up. I don't wanna mess you
up.

REED (39:27):
And then you're and then you don't make any moves.

Dennis (39:29):
Now you're the mousey guy. Exactly.

REED (39:30):
Yeah. So it's just like this constant and really, the
the goal isn't to figure out howto be in the middle all the
time. It's like the goal is tobalance the elements so that
you're bossy the right amount,and you're cooperative the right
amount, and then you're passivethe right amount. Right. And
that seems to me to get the jobdone.

(39:51):
Picking out,

Dennis (39:51):
or maybe once in a while you are?

REED (39:54):
I mean, it's Hopefully. When I listen back Yeah. I
that's always my least favoritepart. Yeah. I can tell them the
minute I decided to you can go.
It's just like, oh, gosh. Thereyou go. I did it. There you go.
And my favorite part is almostalways something I didn't notice
at the time.

Dennis (40:11):
Really cool. You know? We talked we interviewed Steve
Kimaka. He said he listened. Iasked him
I I was at
a show of his where there was in in the audience,
and there was one of his fansjust going, come on, Steve.

REED (40:25):
Right. Back. Come on. What are you doing? Right.

Dennis (40:28):
And he could tell that
he was, I don't know, deferring, but
he was he was holding back. Right. And Steve said he
he kind of gave the answer youjust did. Not in those
particulars about thepercentages of knowing when to
do it, etcetera. Yeah.
And he doesn't like the the thelimelight either. I mean

REED (40:43):
Well, I was just gonna say, like, saying that to Steve,
it get you the opposite of whatyou want. The harder you push
him, the less he will Yeah. Heis like a he's like a wild
squirrel or something. It'slike, hold still and he might
approach you, you know, or adeer. You know what I mean?
Like, you can't be like, comeon, boy. Like, he's not gonna
heal, you know.

Dennis (41:06):
Well, tell alright. Let me I mean, let's see. Promote
this a little more. Tell us whothe artists are. Can you?

REED (41:11):
Oh, yeah. So the first episode, which comes out in two
weeks from tonight today. Wow.Yeah. The first episode, I start
out talking about the my firsttime going to New York and
meeting Joe Russo at thewetlands.
And then a few years later andthen I asked a couple people to
tell me their first impressionsof Joe, a couple of his heroes.

(41:33):
And then and then I go into,like, oh, and then him and Marco
Benavento started the duo, andthen I segue into talking to
Marco. Marco and I talked for awhile, then I pass the ball, and
it's Aaron Magner.

Dennis (41:43):
Mhmm.

REED (41:45):
So that's the first episode. Second episode is me
and Jay Lane Yeah. Going long,shooting the shit, really
getting down to it. And that'sone of my favorite episodes
because he's such a cool cat,and I feel like he's such a
different guy away from, awayfrom the scene. Yeah.
You know? No doubt. I love onePMJ. You know? Yeah.

(42:08):
I love one AMJ too, but one PMJis awesome. And then the third
episode is Tom Hamilton, whichwas amazing. And that and that
one, we talk a lot aboutKreuzmann and his approach and
what how lame it is to anyway.The the fourth episode

Dennis (42:25):
is too much away.

REED (42:26):
Fourth episode is Holly Bowling.

Dennis (42:28):
Oh, beautiful.

REED (42:29):
And I went to her house, and we we had a long talk. And
we both we really saw it. Ididn't know a lot of shit. Nice.
The fifth episode, I talked toRobert Walter, Mike Clark from
the Headhunters, and, Skarek allin one episode.
But those are all people I metthrough Mike Clark, and then I
ended up playing with MikeClark. So, and he's like, you

(42:50):
know, at one point, he says, I'mjust now at 79 years old
starting to achieve what I setout to do when I was nine.
That's what it takes. It'sfucking beautiful. Feel it?
Sixth episode is Dave Dreyowitz.And then the seventh and I kind
of I read a bunch of Phil Loeschquotes, because it was right

(43:12):
after

reed (43:13):
he got out.

Dennis (43:13):
Appropriately so.

REED (43:14):
Yeah. And then the sixth episode, Natalie Cressman,
Elliot Peck, and then ElliotPeck again, and then, and Graham
and, Rashap.

Dennis (43:23):
Very nice.

REED (43:23):
Talking about Phil. And then the eighth episode is my
bandmates from back in the day,Brian Hoss and Jason Smart,
Jacob Red Jazz Odyssey. Brianand I didn't speak for over a
decade after I quit the band,and we were done I I thought we
were done forever. So we kinda

Dennis (43:39):
Was this the first time?

REED (43:40):
Or No. This was it was among the first times.

Dennis (43:42):
Amongst. Oh.

REED (43:43):
Very nice. And then the ninth episode is Kimmok, Nathan
Moore, and Adam McDougal. Andthen the last three, I haven't
made yet.

Dennis (43:55):
Oh, okay. Oh, okay. I thought they were all done and
in the

REED (43:59):
well, nine of them are.

Dennis (44:00):
Yeah. That's pretty

REED (44:01):
damn good. People. I interviewed, I interviewed a
couple of people a couple daysago. Like

Dennis (44:06):
Oh, that's fabulous. Can you tell us?
Come on. I'm here for an expose.

REED (44:11):
I mean, jeez.

Dennis (44:12):
I just gave you

REED (44:12):
all the way through the March.

Dennis (44:13):
You did. You did. That's really good stuff. I, any any
favorite children? Children bythat?
No. I mean, any of these youryour favorite interview? Oh. You
can't pick your favorite child,of course, but among the
favorites, you said it. Jay Lanewas probably one of them.

REED (44:30):
I mean, the Jay Lane interview was really, really
good. I mean, we we hadn'tcaught up in a while either. So
he kinda had some stuff to getoff his chest. I felt like Yep.
Just as we we've been tight fora long time.
So, you know, we were kinda

Dennis (44:47):
I mean I

REED (44:48):
don't know. He he he he had some stuff he kinda felt
like he needed to talk about, Ithink. So it was really cool.

Dennis (44:52):
And there it is. Bear with

reed (44:53):
us to

Dennis (44:53):
that one, everybody.
Yeah. Well, it's hard to pick one.
I mean, I but I
I I've done it myself with our podcast. Jay is among
our
favorites without question Yeah. Just because of
who he is.

REED (45:02):
He's brilliant, but he's also just so entertaining.

Dennis (45:04):
He's so fun.
Kim Ock is another favorite. Yeah. Kim Ock was
amazing. And for us, you knowwhat? We did

REED (45:10):
a lot of editing on the Kim Mok interview. Yeah. Just of
the silences.

Dennis (45:14):
Yeah. Yeah. He thinks. He

REED (45:15):
thinks. He thinks.

Dennis (45:16):
I was gonna say we had Luther Dickinson.

REED (45:18):
Oh, I love Luther.

Dennis (45:19):
He he was fabulous. So I'm just trying to think of my
own favorite children that I'mnot not supposed to do.

REED (45:25):
Wow. Yeah. I mean, all of the podcast episodes fall short
of what I had hoped, buteverything I've ever made has
fallen short of what I've hopedwith one exception. So, that's
okay. That's I'm I'm right ontime.

tami (45:36):
I was

Dennis (45:36):
gonna say that's exactly how you're you treated your
music. Yeah. And the exceptionis?

reed (45:41):
Oh, I made a

REED (45:42):
record in 02/2008 called Winterwood that, didn't come
out. We didn't put it out untilthe pandemic because, I mean, it
was the last Jacob Bright album,and then I quit. And the guys
were so mad at me that theydidn't really sit, even though
we had spent a year on it. Andit was our Abbey Road. It was
our masterpiece, you know?
And they just they knew that theone way to really get back at me

(46:03):
was to not put out this recordwe'd spent a year on. So it was
it wasn't until Brian and Ipatched things up during the
lockdown that we released it.And I to this day, I'm just
like, that's the kind of recordit takes fifteen years of
relationship work to make. Wow.You know?

Dennis (46:24):
There's a lot
of layers to that, and it's it's all good.

REED (46:26):
It's a really beautiful record. Yeah.

Dennis (46:28):
It's a really beautiful record. Alright. Let let's just
shift gears because, we do havea show you do have a show to
play.

REED (46:34):
It's true. I haven't had a soundtrack yet.

Dennis (46:35):
Oh, jeez. Okay. So let's just this goes right into the
question we were kinda musingabout before we got going here.
Tales from the green room. Herewe are.
Yeah. What we we like
to, capture sort of a what we call us think is a
sensitive vibe Uh-huh. In thegreen room before you play. We
could have
done this interview anywhere. Right?

REED (46:55):
Absolutely. Yeah.

Dennis (46:55):
But we're doing it here before you're playing a show.
Mhmm.
Is that is that different to you? Does that have
any impact, effect, besidesbeing media?

REED (47:04):
I mean, I'm probably in a better mood than usual because I
get to play. Okay. You know, ifwe'd, like, schedule this for
Zoom at noon, like most of mypodcasts at the peak, I'd
probably be, like, a little less

Dennis (47:19):
Yeah.

REED (47:20):
Chatty. I don't know. Like, I feel like I've kinda
already got my game face on alittle bit. So You're in the
zone.

Dennis (47:26):
Yeah. You're getting in the zone. Absolutely. Yeah.
That's good.
So we're I've

REED (47:28):
already had my, like, alone time, and I'm I'm ready to
open up and engage and I whichis what you have to do to do
this. You know? Yeah. So yeah.Feels good.

Dennis (47:37):
Yeah. Good. Alright. I'm just making sure And

REED (47:39):
tonight's gonna be really fun.

Dennis (47:40):
It's gonna be really

REED (47:40):
fun. I've never hosted a Grateful Dead night of music
ever in my

Dennis (47:46):
life. What?

REED (47:47):
I have done how many hundreds of them? Yeah. But I've
I've never I've never been theperson that put it on.

Dennis (47:52):
That has his friends with him. Let's talk.

REED (47:54):
So they hit me up asking, and I was like, do you wanna do
this? And I was just like, man.I mean, I've been doing
Wednesdays at Oscar House fortwelve years, and I've never
been the catalyst. It's not abig deal to anybody but me. But
to me, it's a huge deal.

Dennis (48:07):
It should be.

REED (48:07):
Because I was always I always felt like ethically,
maybe it was a gray area. Like,I I I wasn't sure that selling
Grateful Dead music with my withunder my name was kinda was
okay.

Dennis (48:20):
Yeah.

REED (48:20):
It was sorta like, it's okay. I I feel fine with other
people doing that, but I wasjust sort of like, oh, I kinda
wanna make more personal things.Like, I don't wanna it's just
too easy. It's too easy to makemoney selling Grateful Dead
music instead of taking realrisks.

Dennis (48:36):
Well, you held out
with that. You know what I mean? Yeah. You held out.

REED (48:39):
But it feels like a right time.

reed (48:40):
It feels like

Dennis (48:41):
Talk about these guys tonight real briefly because and
how they fit into this thiswhole improv discussion. We have
Barry Celeste. Is Barry comingto me?

REED (48:49):
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Alright. Well,

Dennis (48:51):
let's start with Barry. Barry Celeste. I'm gonna tell
you over there. Barry Sless,tell the audience are there.
Yeah.
Barry Sless, Brian Raschett,Anna Elva, and now Danny
Eisenberg Yep. Just paid us avisit.

REED (49:03):
Yeah. Yeah. It's a great fucking team. I mean, Anna's
been been kind of a host herefor the last year and a half or
so, since Stu really backed off.I feel like Anna's stepped in
and kind of been the the teamleader here more weeks than not.
At least when I'm here, it'salways because Anna wanted me.

(49:26):
So she's just the best, man.We've been having a ball playing
together. Like,

Dennis (49:31):
And as improvisers.
Yeah. Right? As improvisers. I mean Absolutely.
Everything we just talked about.

REED (49:37):
She she has some very different views than me. Good.
And a different she has hergauges are set differently than
mine. So I'm always amazed thatshe likes playing with me,
honestly, because she's she's areally methodical person and a,
a really plan oriented person,which is ironic because she's
such a brilliant improviser. Butthat's not really her favorite

(50:01):
thing, you know, or a comfortzone.
Like, So I feel I feel likeshe's just kind of starting to
explore her more improvisedside, which is exciting for
somebody that accomplishedalready to be kind of being like
getting getting into it a littlebit. So, you know, and Celeste

(50:22):
I've known Celeste for twentyyears, but I don't know him very
well. And we've we've been,we've been friendly for a really
long time. We've only done ahandful of gigs together. When I
met him, Tea Leaf Green wasopening for Moon Alice, and Sles
was in that band.
And I made him a mix CD. That'sokay. Because I liked him. And

(50:44):
then but since I, you know, Ididn't take up the guitar till
the lockdown, and so it's beenreally new exploring the guitar.

Dennis (50:51):
That's true.

REED (50:52):
And Barry has been playing the guitar his whole life. And
so at Perry's in Fairfax Mhmm.Whenever I play at Perry's,
Barry comes out and watches andstays the whole night In the
audience. In the audience andwatches me play and, like, and
gives me very cool, specificlike, he's really noticing what

(51:14):
I'm doing and really into it.And for somebody of that caliber
to be digging my rookie ass shitWow.
Is huge. So I he doesn't usuallydo gigs like this. So I was
like, I hit him up expecting himto say no.

Dennis (51:26):
Wow. That's so awesome. And he did it. And and you're
talking about just picked up theguitar. You've been playing bass
Yes.
Bass guitar for all those years.

REED (51:34):
Yeah. And cello and piano and

Dennis (51:36):
else. Yeah.
But but the guitar is a a new thing for you since the, I
mean, new as a as a

REED (51:42):
Yeah. Absolutely. Professional musician. Yeah. As
a gigging I didn't play any gigsever until I didn't own a guitar
until 2019.

Dennis (51:49):
Man, you're damn good at it, brother.

REED (51:51):
It's fun.

Dennis (51:52):
I mean, that's

REED (51:53):
it. The the the dirty little secret is that, you know,
we especially at rock and roll,classic rock culture, loves to
fetishize instruments and theroles. You know? How many times
have you heard a joke about awhat how many drummers does it
this or, you know, the singerthis or the the bass player
this. Like, we we treat themlike they're types of people
because this is how rock androll was sold to the Beatles

(52:14):
fans.
And it's we've been under thathypnosis ever since. But it's
not real. Instruments aren'treally different than one
another. They're not actuallydifferent people. The behavior
isn't in the case when you takeit home from the store.
It doesn't have behavior. Like,we're projecting all of those

(52:35):
roles onto these instruments. So

Dennis (52:38):
Yeah. So not that different. Yeah.
And when they say, oh, I thought you played the bass.
Remember you say what? I play music. Yeah. I've heard you
say Absolutely. How you playmusic.
Yeah. And, and play it well.
I I gotta say you, we've interviewed a lot
of folks here. You are one of the most well spoken
intelligent Wow. Around here. Imean, the the metaphor I love

(52:59):
the metaphors. I think the themetaphors Do

REED (53:00):
they use some cool metaphor?

Dennis (53:02):
Like, metaphors are good for me.
And I know and I and I I, you know,
you had a a stint as a, paralegal somewhere along
the line. Did you not? And I Paralegal. Did you not?
Did I hear that you like, whenyou were

REED (53:14):
my my one of my mentors was this blues guitar player in
Oklahoma, Steve Pryor. And whenI met him, he was in a lot of
legal trouble, and he was livingin his lawyer's garage. So for
band practice, Met was me goingto this woman's garage and
learning old fucking bluesstandards from this very fucked
up dude who's genius, virtuoso.Kim Auk, is a huge fan of this

(53:37):
guy. He's since passed.
But Yeah. So I so my first sixmonths of knowing Steve Pryor, I
was going to his lawyer's househanging out in the garage Okay.

Dennis (53:46):
Where

REED (53:47):
he had a cot. You know? And, and then I was really
broke.

reed (53:53):
And she

REED (53:53):
was like, I need I need help. I need copies made and
stuff. I need Aaron's run, youknow? And she didn't really, but
she was just and I starteddating her daughter. So it was
the whole thing.

Dennis (54:05):
It's the whole thing. Here we go. So let's scrap that
scrap that help fairly littlebit.
Anyway, alright. Listen. Reid, man.

REED (54:12):
I was a waiter, though. I was a damn

Dennis (54:14):
good waiter.

REED (54:14):
Damn. Damn good waiter.

Dennis (54:16):
We appreciate your time here taking over the green room
here. Go do your sound check.The podcast is gonna be awesome.
People will listen to this, andthey will listen to all of those
once they hear what they're about to hear.

REED (54:27):
Good night. Good night.

Dennis (54:28):
I'll be there.
And if they don't, you know what? You've done it, and
you're just hoping to hope
for the best.

REED (54:32):
My job is to make it. My job is my job is to make the
thing. Get it get it tocompletion, get it out the door.
What happens once it's out thedoor is no no business.

Dennis (54:41):
Alright. Well, have a great time tonight.

REED (54:43):
Thanks, buddy.

Dennis (54:46):
Thanks for listening to Tales from the Green Room, a
presentation of Mount Tam Media.You can hear more spontaneous
stories from the secludedconfines of green rooms on our
next episode. To experience allMount Tam Media productions,
including the Woman Are Smarterpodcast, log on to
mounttammedia.com. We'll see youat the next show.