#104 Derik Kearns - Army Infantry SGM

Derik Kearns enlisted in the Army in 2002 following the events of 9/11. Throughout his military service, he completed two tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Amidst personal challenges, he has experienced marriage, divorce, and remarriage, and is now a proud parent to two daughters and a stepson. This summer, Derik will be attending the Sergeant Majors Academy at Fort Bliss, continuing his commitment to leadership and service within the armed forces.

🫡 My Why: I’ve seen the cost of poor leadership — how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in the worst cases, lead to lives lost, including through suicide. That’s why I’ve committed my life to helping others lead with purpose. Through Tales of Leadership, I share real stories and actionable insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader people remember for the right reasons.

👉🏽Leadership Resources: https://linktr.ee/talesofleadership

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So my first deployment was Afghanistan and
we were very decentralized.
Lots of regular infantry unit,regular leg light infantry unit
from Hawaii and we did so manyair assault missions that we
fast-tracked the annual servicecycle of the aviation regiment
attached to RC South and so weended up having to go to GACs to

(00:22):
Ground Assault Convoys withHumvees and we just spent it was
like 20 days out, 10 days backon patrols and it was, you know,
remote living.
And then we go back to back toIraq and tons of infrastructure
and all that kind of supportthat you see in those large
forward operating basesno-transcript at any phase on

(01:18):
their leadership journey tobecome a more purposeful and
accountable leader, what I liketo call a pal.
Join me on our journey togethertowards transformational
leadership.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
All right team.
Welcome back to the Tales ofLeadership podcast.
I am your host, josh McMillian.
I'm an active duty army officerand the founder of McMillian
Leadership Coaching, and I'm ona mission to create a better
leader what I like to call apurposeful, accountable leader.
My vision is to impact 1million lives in the next 10
years by doing two thingssharing transformational stories

(01:52):
and skills.
On today's episode, I'm goingto be bringing you one of the
best leaders that I've ever hadthe chance to serve with, and
that's Derek Kearns.
Derek Kearns enlisted in theArmy in 2002 following the
events at 9-11.
Throughout his military service, he's completed tours to both
Iraq and Afghanistan, amidstpersonal challenges he's

(02:13):
experienced in terms of hismarriage, with a divorce and
being remarried, and he is nowthe proud parent of two
beautiful daughters and astepson.
This summer, derek is gettingready to take the next step in
his military career.
He's been in for 24 years nowand is going to be going to the
Sergeant Majors Academy at FortBliss, and he is dedicated to

(02:36):
becoming a better leader everysingle day, and I genuinely mean
this.
I was a platoon leader when Ifirst met Derek.
He is, hands down, one of, ifnot the best non-commissioned
officer I have ever served with.
So make sure you listen to thisepisode, because the nuggets
that he brings and throughouthis story is extremely powerful

(02:59):
and, as always, stay to the veryend and I'll provide you the
top three takeaways.
You can go toMcMillianLeadershipCoachingcom.
You can listen to that podcastthere and also have a
accompanied article of thesummary and key points from this
episode.
That way, you don't have totake any additional notes.

(03:21):
Let's go ahead and bring Derekon.
Derek, welcome to the Tales ofLeadership, brother.
How are you doing, man?
Not bad how are you Josh?
It's good.
I think it's always funny whenI always start these podcasts I
basically say the same thinglike five minutes before that
we've just talked about.
But I really mean this is thatit's an absolute honor to get to

(03:41):
connect with you again andreally that's why I love
podcasting is because I can gothrough some of the memories
that we had together and thenreally figure out what kind of
leader that I was when you firstmet me.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Well, no, it's uh.
Thanks for having me on.
Uh, I've never done one ofthese before.
This will be fun, but it's ayeah long form discussion and,
of course, catching up with you.
You were my first real PL.
That was super fun.
It was definitely a formativeexperience for both of us.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
A hundred percent.
Some of those stories, I'm sure.
But before we jump in, Derek,if you could take the time just
to provide a quick overview tothe listeners of who you are.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Sure, yeah, okay.
So my name is Derek Kearns, I'mactive duty Army infantry,
currently assigned to 3rdBrigade 10th Mountain Division
out of Fort Johnson, louisiana,and I'm pending permanent change
of station or PCS, to go to theUnited States Army Sergeant
Major Academy, class number 75.
I joined the Army, of courseyou know, graduated high school

(04:50):
and I've come from a prettylarge family and I'm one of the
only people in my generation inmy family that did not go to
college.
And so a couple months aftergetting out of high school then
9-11 happens and it seemedappropriate at the time and I
don't question it or regret itnow.

(05:11):
I mean, as a young man, there'salways that thing like if
someone shoulder checks you orbumps into you on the street or
says something inappropriate toyour girlfriend or one of your

(05:32):
friends, you're going to takeissue with that and that's
pretty petty usually.
But these people decided tocommit themselves to the extent
of taking their own lives to doit, to come all the way across
the world to kill US citizens,to include potentially.
One of my friends growing upwas on the other side of Central
Park from the Trade Center whenit got hit and so it seemed.
It very much seemed like well,if they're going to pick a fight

(05:54):
, then let's go fight.
And so I joined the Army inJanuary of 2002.
I was initially stationed atSchofield Barracks, hawaii, with
25th Infantry Division and itwas uncommon at the time and not
too many folks that I've runinto have had the same
experience where I stayed in thesame infantry company, the same

(06:18):
UIC, for three GWAT deploymentsand from private second class
through staff sergeant.
So I was in the same companyfrom E2 to E6 continuously and
then I went from there to JointBase Lewis-McChord and got my

(06:42):
first taste of Stryker andthat's its own big rabbit hole
right there.
But yeah, I've served inleadership positions from team
leader started.
I guess my first real, glennsaid, organizational level or
direct level leadership was as ateam leader.
When the actual team leaderswere away on their mid-tour

(07:05):
leave.
I got a chance or anopportunity to kind of step up
in Afghanistan and be thespecialist in charge on patrols
or in administrative sillythings from time to time.
And then when we got back fromthat deployment in 2005 is when
I first started.
Actually I had my first fireteam and then I've served in

(07:27):
leadership positions in infantryorganizations from then on up
to this point.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
So I didn't know you were in the same unit.
I think you have a, is it?
God?
Don't don't hate me on this.
Is it Cacti?

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Cacti, that's right.
Left hand high.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I didn't know.
You were in that same unit,basically from private all the
way to staff sergeant, I think,at least from my understanding,
that's uncommon nowadays, butmaybe because of the operational
tempo back then it was, I guess, relatively normal.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, it was very much for me, it was just maybe
the way it worked out.
Yeah, it was very much for me,it was just maybe the way it

(08:21):
worked out.
It was a very happy accidentthat whenever it was time for me
to reenlist, we were alsoluckily on deployment again and
bonuses were tax free and it waslike gosh why wouldn't I
reenlist to stabilize intropical paradise with the
organization I love?
And being in Charlie Company,ace of Spades, 2nd Battalion,
35th Infantry Regiment, that wasan absolutely amazing
experience and anybody who isblessed to be able to be in 3rd
Brigade, 25th Infantry, that's agreat organization in the
regular Army.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
I've been in for 16 years now and I travel all the
time for my current job and Ihave yet to figure out a way to
make it to.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Hawaii.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
It's worth it, it's, it's amazing.
It's a very tight knitcommunity.
Um, it's, it's wild.
I mean you've, you've seen thisas, uh, you'll, you'll go to a
place, you'll be at a place, andthen you'll leave and you'll
transition and go to your nextassignment, and then you'll meet
someone new who had also atsome other time been at that
same place, and having thatcommonality is a it's, it's wild

(09:16):
how small the army can be.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
When you were in that unit and you were kind of
growing up from a private to astaff sergeant, you were working
through those ranks.
You had three differentdeployments.
Were any of those like morespecifically challenging from
like a rank perspective, gettingready for a deployment, maybe
when you were more of an NCO andthere was more weight on your

(09:38):
shoulders and you had to trainand get your guys ready for the
mission?

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, it was.
Culturally the Army was prettyfocused at that point.
There was a good, strong,honest impetus that we all
pretty well bought into and fedon and used, well or not, or in
the healthiest of ways or not.
It was hey, you've really gotto learn this.
Or someone's going to dieBecause we knew before we even
got home from our first tripthat we were going on another
one and we knew when we weregoing to die.

(10:04):
Because we knew before we evengot home from our first trip
that we were going on anotherone and we knew when we were
going to go.
And so that whole time and itwasn't even I hadn't even put on
sergeant stripes yet and I wasin a leadership role and that
was very common and it continuesto be where a leader will punch
up and wait, so to say, they'llwork above pay grade and

(10:25):
they'll have that responsibilitywithout maybe the benefit of
the honest paycheck attached tothat responsibility or authority
.
But it was always for me, atevery level, from sergeant
through first sergeant, it was.
I've worked above pay grade forfor a time and that was always

(10:46):
commonly laterally andvertically.
It was understood as that'skind of like the probationary
period, but then, like, once youpin, then it's game on, and
once you're wearing theappropriate rank that's
commensurate with yourresponsibility level, then you
are reasonably expected tounderstand your duties and
responsibilities and executeeffectively and I do.
And I do feel like it was a hardtransition for me to initially

(11:11):
wear stripes, coming from thejunior enlisted ranks to become
a sergeant and become afunctional team leader, and the
methods that were employed atthat time to encourage me out of
my shell and get me to be morevocal and apply a more critical
eye to the population that usedto be literally my peer group
specialists and privates amongstus.

(11:32):
Now I'm a sergeant or now I'm ateam leader, specialist, and I
have to lead them and I have tohold them accountable and I have
to teach them not just what Iexpect, but that what I expect
is aligned with Army standardsand what is needed to actually
be functionally combat ready,and they had to.
There was a game that my squadleader and platoon sergeant

(11:55):
would play with me or at me.
I'm not sure which is moreappropriate, but if I hadn't
corrected somebody for a validdeficiency before PT formation,
every day I would get corrected,so to say, and that was how
they helped me to apply a morecritical eye to my soldiers in
the smallest of ways to helpthem, or help me to understand

(12:19):
that my job is directly relatedto helping them.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
I was always curious where one of the things that I
absolutely loved about you is.
You were way more rigid interms of like PCCs and PCIs.
I remember some of the missionsthat we do, especially at Nogum
you would do a head to toe.
One of the missions that kindof stood out to me is when we
had to go try to use that, CarlGustav, If you remember, we had

(12:44):
that brand new toy and our boss.
We had to go try to use that,Carl Gustav, If you remember, we
had that brand new toy and ourboss wanted us to go basically
set up an ambush somewhere andso that.
But that morning it didn'tbasically sleep all night.
I think it was like zero threeor zero two in the morning doing
a two standard head to toeinspection PCCs, PCIs, letting

(13:04):
the NCOs, our squad leaders, tokind of follow through to that,
but keeping yourself to thatsame standard.
I now I've been in the army for16 years.
I feel like an old man now butI have yet to really see another
NCO that had that same level ofdetail and accountability and I
was always curious where thatcame from and I knew it came

(13:26):
from your informative years, butI think that's definitely where
it sparked.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Absolutely.
It was well so back in the day,before Shooter's Preference,
before MOLLE, and all thatflexibility it affords us now,
which I believe is awesome.
I love nylon, but it's back inthe day everything had a place,
Everything, every pocket on theuniform, every pouch.
In Alice yes, I joined in BDUsin Alice time before Molly, my

(13:56):
first we got our, we got IBAsand Molly Rucks Gen 1 before we
deployed and we didn't getplates until we were in Kandahar
and there's like the end of abaseball game, you know, where
the kids line up and walktowards each other and the
outgoing unit we were rippingwith they handed us their plates

(14:17):
on the way to the plane andthat's how and that's how we got
body armor plates.
But it was so like the um, theAlice rucksack, as you know,
those three external pouches onthe outside, at the base.
There were only certain thingsallowed to go in those pouches.
Very much in particular is veryprescriptive good, bad or
otherwise.

(14:37):
But everybody knew this is whatyou're supposed to have and
there was absolutely no leewayafforded to, you know, creative
license.
And it was.
I don't know if it's autism orOCD or what, but it was.
I latched onto that as a way tohelp reduce variables and help

(14:58):
ensure stuff.
You know, I'm not going to lie,Josh.
I tell that story tosubordinate leaders around me
and all my battle buddies.
Um, to this day, me andlinewebber were uh talking about
it at the ball.
Uh, he's here now as well.
He's a first sergeant in n22,and is he really?
He is, uh, he is.
That is crazy yeah, he is stillhilarious as well, but uh, we

(15:20):
talk about those pccs where itwas.
I never I don't believe I everchecked the same thing and I
never checked everything and Inever checked everybody, but it
was always like I expected thatby the time I got there they had
done some checking ahead of meand that by the time I got there
there was nothing left for meto find and there always was.
And it just goes to show howmuch stuff we were being asked

(15:42):
to manage at that level.
And it just goes to show howmuch stuff we were being asked
to manage at that level, I meanour understrength platoon,
sometimes as low as 17 or 19personnel, managing a
company-sized battle space.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
that was pretty intense.
So I remember sometimes wewould go out on a patrol because
we were scripted to.
Basically we had to go on liketwo to three patrols a day, even
didn't really matter what thetask or purpose was.
Go do a presence patrol and Ihad to make a conscious decision
with you know, francis and andDr Jones, all those guys of like
hey, you're now many PLs, soyour squad element is a platoon

(16:19):
size and our platoon is now acompany.
And it got to a point of wherewe were going on some missions
and I think there were only likenine people back in our cop at
Nalgum.
Which absolutely blows me awaybut also inspires me from the
standpoint, is that you guys hadthat resilience and
adaptability to be able to fallin on a company-sized battle

(16:41):
space at arguably the heart ofAfghanistan.
Nalgum is where Mullah Omarformed the Taliban and I mean
that was a very decisive placein Afghanistan to hold,
especially during that time.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, it was.
That summer was pretty sportingand I know you remember this is
that one afternoon we got thephone call from the, our friends
in the agency, where they toldus like hey, I was telling that
story today.
Yeah, yeah, we, you've got a guyin your ANA counterpart
formation in your perimeter whowas planning something that you

(17:16):
need to be aware of.
I'm like, oh, my goodness.
And I was like, yeah, it was,uh, it was so going from.
So my first deployment wasafghanistan and we were very
decentralized lots of so a wholeregular infantry unit, a

(17:36):
regular leg light infantry unitfrom hawaii.
We did so many air assaultmissions that we fast tracked
the annual service cycle of theaviation regiment attached to RC
South, and so we ended uphaving to go to GACs to ground
assault convoys with Humvees andwe just spent it was like 20

(17:59):
days out, 10 days back onpatrols, and it was, you know,
10 days back on patrols, and itwas, you know, remote living.
And then we go back to back toiraq and tons of infrastructure
and all that kind of supportthat you see in those large
forward operating bases, andthen, in 2012, going back to

(18:19):
kandahar army airfield that Ihadn't been to in seven years
and seeing like it was such a.
It was so weird that dichotomywhere it's like the, the
airfield is so big, there's anathan's hot dogs, there was a
tgi friday, there was all thatstuff there.
But then we're.

(18:41):
We're still where we ended upout in the middle of nowhere,
very, very similarly to 2004,2005.
That was the strangest thing inthe world to me that that's how
that ended up.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
I remember coming into Kandahar thinking, oh well,
this is going to be fun, it'snot going to be that bad.
And then we got on a CH-47 andwe flew off and within like 30
minutes you do the low altitudelike map the earth, and he did a
burst with a chain gun on thereand I'm like, oh, did we just

(19:14):
get shot?
That was like the first 30minutes in like actual country
and I was like, oh, this isgoing to be totally different.
And then we went to where I wason brigade staff or battalion
staff for the very first partand that was that was the most
interesting thing, at least forme is me preparing for
Afghanistan.
I didn't really have a chance toto prepare for any of those

(19:38):
positions.
I came straight out of rangerschool, I went straight to
battalion staff and weimmediately deployed school.
I went straight to battalionstaff and we immediately
deployed and I was the nightbattle captain because I don't
think they had a really good fitfor me at the time because they
were already stacked with a lotof phenomenal leaders.
So some of them I stillactually work with.
If you remember frank um, he'sstill in special operations

(19:59):
forces, frank foss yeah, thegigantic redhead yeah, you
remember you're what watched.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Uh, rudolph the red nose reindeer yes cornelius, he
is cornelius, he's a peppermintfarmer he was, uh, I remember he
was the hhcxo when I was the uhscalpatine sergeant and he was
always so very incrediblyfocused and very.
He had a very regimented uhphysical fitness regimen and his

(20:30):
eating habits and everythingwas just so intentional.
Everything he did just seemedlike he he was doing that on
purpose, because that's the wayhe wanted that done, and I was
like, well, good for you, sir.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, that's awesome I will tell you that he has not
changed at all.
And now he's made other gingerbabies that are exactly the same
as him.
He's creating a race ofsuperior genetic gender babies.
We'll just say that.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
I don't know, you know he's got a best of luck to
him in all of that.
Really yeah, it's a worthyendeavor.
Vikings, all of that.
Really yeah, it's a worthyendeavor.
Vikings, all of them.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, so off topic, but for my job I get to travel a
lot.
We went to London a couple ofweeks ago and I had a chance to
bring my wife, which is crazy.
Acquisitions is totallydifferent than the infantry
Because I was joking.
Different than the infantryBecause I was joking.
The first time I went TDY I wasin my uniform Because I was

(21:31):
told by my boss when you travelyou're on the Army's dime, so
you wear your Army uniform, andeveryone was, you know, making
fun of me.
It's like, dude, when you goTDY you don't wear your uniform,
you're a major.
How do you not know that I waslike?
because I've only ever went towar, the only time, I ever went
to war the only time I ever wentto tdy uh, yeah, no, I mean
that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I mean I'm sure it's a different culture, but it
sounds.
It sounds like a hoot, soundslike a lot of fun to be over
there it's uh, it's a blast andwe went to to london.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
I gotta go to glasgow and edinburgh and I took like a
scotland tour and I found outthat my I a surname in Scotland
and there is a McMillian castle.
So what I'm thinking aboutdoing when I retire one day is
to go get my family crest guideon flag made and go take the
castle as my birthright and justclaim it.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
See how long it takes me to notice, like, what the
heck is going on over there.
Who's that guy who put thedrawbridge up?
Yeah, what is going on?

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, that'd be awesome when you were going from
the light infantry over tomechanize.
I'm curious, like that cultureshift.
What was it like coming in astriker organization?

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Right, yeah, coming over to striker from white.
I'm not going to lie, I had alot of concerns and apprehension
when I was all I was born outof ignorance.
It was transitioning intostriker.
I think one of the biggestcultural shifts I saw or
experienced was that, like, say,cause I'm, I'm, you know, I'm
just a hothead staff sergeant atthe time and, me being me, I'm

(23:08):
maybe more direct than is usefulat times, or whatever that is,
and I can't even count if Itried.
I do remember several differentinstances where I was politely
and kindly pulled aside bysomebody and told we don't do
that here.
I was addressing an issue thatI saw in front of me and I was

(23:31):
just addressing it.
I was smoking somebody, or Iwas chewing someone out, or I
was dressing someone down, or Iwas reading someone the riot act
and yeah, we don't do thatapparently, and I'm, and yeah, I
remember.
Uh, it was during the train up,right, we're at ntc and I'm in.

(23:57):
It was with my platoon sergeantat the time was Sergeant
Anderson, right, papa A, and hadLieutenant Highland and he's,
he's an awesome awesome guy.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
He was the mortar platoon leader right After
Mackey.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, he's awesome, but at the time you know,
probably stress or me just beingme he was, he was doing it, he
was acting in good faith and hewas being a good young officer
and all that stuff.
And I just I'm just me and Itold him I was like he got done
trying to tell us how to dothings or whatever it was.

(24:36):
And I was like sure, I was likeyou can tell me the when, the
where, the what, the what, thewho.
You can tell me all kinds ofstuff, sir, but the how, that's
my lane.
I was like don't tell me how torun my squad.
I was like you don't have totell me to do rehearsals, you
don't have to tell me to doinspections, you don't have to

(24:58):
tell me to do those things.
I'm going to do those things.
It's like you tell me where tobe and when and what we're going
to do.
If you feel like it, I'll beready and so will all of my
soldiers and um, and then hejust kind of nodded, walked off,
and then I went and, uh, I waseating in my striker because I

(25:19):
didn't want to be in that stupidtent in Aruba.
And I went and I was eating withmy VC and he poked his head in
the back of the striker and hestarted to say it.
He started he was going to dothe hey, make sure you guys do
rehearsals before we move outtonight.
And I just stopped.
I had my MRE in my hand, likethis, and I looked at him and I

(25:44):
was like I was like sir, we justtalked about this and he's like
he's like, he's like sir, we'llbe doing rehearsals at 1900 or
at you know, just on the far endof ENT.
Okay, if you want to come seerehearsals, we'll be doing those
at the far end of ENT to makesure their nods and lasers and
everything works.
If you want to come see, he'slike, okay, but I mean it was

(26:05):
just and that was just me atthat time being honestly, uh,
more fiery than was probablyuseful, but uh, yeah, I mean I
was a hot head I, I, I never.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
So that that's the one thing that I absolutely
loved about you, especially whenI was a brand new platoon
leader.
So the first time I met you wasat Rod's Memorial.
That was the first interactionof the entire platoon.
I didn't really know where Iwas going that day.
If I remember right, colonelHarkins at the time was like hey

(26:40):
, that's going to be the platoonthat you take over.
So my first interaction was atthe that Memorial.
And I remember going into thatjob of having a very like
selfish mentality and I tellthis story all the time of like
hey, I wanted to go be a range,range of middle platoon leader,
so I wanted to go to war and Iwanted to get into many
firefights as possible.

(27:01):
But at that moment, like that,there was like a switch inside
of me of like hey, I need to bethe leader that this, this
platoon needs, I guess, if thatmakes sense.
So I shifted my mindset almost110 and you were perfect in
terms of like, clearlycommunicating, always when I was
getting outside the limits.
So story when I may or may nothave went to go take a shower in

(27:27):
a well right where we got intoa very large ambush a couple of
days before, you tactically toldme hey, sir, this is a bad idea
, you will die.
I didn't listen to you, but Iprobably should have.
But I remember coming back andyou were standing outside of the
entryway.
It's like, sir, we're gettingshot at, so you're not lying.

(27:51):
That was hilarious.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, it was a fun transition.
I mean, honestly, you were ahuge breath of fresh air because
the I mean Appletune, hadalready been through so much and
I was an import.
Yeah, they were very far away,yeah, and it was very soon into
the trip and we had so manysoldiers it was their first trip
and they had, I mean gosh, theyhad already taken some pretty

(28:15):
significant hits.
And it was like, I mean,immediately during rip, rip in,
uh, I wasn't even in the platoonyet and they lost their platoon
sergeant, who was beloved bythem.
He had certainly built quite acult of personality.
He's a very dynamic leader andthat's fine, and but he had you

(28:36):
know that, I mean thecircumstances around that
incident are not great, but butyou know, three wounded in one
hit.
I mean they all lived, thankgoodness.
And so all of a sudden, like Iwas a SWAT leader that morning,
and then the end of the nightI'm a staff sergeant, platoon
sergeant, and I have a captain,platoon leader, sergeant, and I

(29:04):
have a captain, uh, platoonleader, and then you know we
making our way through things,and then you know sergeant rod
didn't make it, and that wasjune 19th, I believe.
And then we go to his memorialand then, yeah, then you come on
board and then we're kickingwest and we knew that that that
area may one was, uh, that theonly people who had been west
recently from Dagobah were NavySEALs and they had not done well

(29:26):
for themselves in thatenvironment.
I was like, oh good, here we go.
I remember watching that.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
I was watching that mission and they may or may not
hit an IED.
I was like, oh, this is goingto be interesting.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah.
So I remember that transitionin for you and I was.
I was so worried for you and Iwas worried for everybody, you
know, cause there's only everone six.
There's only ever one six onthe net.
And I was learning very quicklythat, no matter how good I
thought I was or how good Imight've been, usually when
someone's calling us they're notcalling for anybody but you.

(30:02):
And the hardest thing in theworld was to get you to take
your radio and your RTO with you.
You just take off.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
I was a peacock man, I was just go.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
You, just, you just go for it somewhere.
And I was like I'd find youryour one, five, two or your M
better, which everyone you'resupposed to have that day.
You just leave it in the backof the striker.
And I was like and then yourpoor, your RTO Clifton, you know
Peterson like he was justtrying so hard to stay with you.
Or he was just like sorry, I'mtrying.

(30:36):
And I'm like no, no, no, stopit.
It's like if he leaves thisfootprint again without his
radio, I'm going to kill you.
He's like Sarn, it's not myradio, I've got my radio.
I was like no, no, no, that'snot the point.
Yeah, all right.
I remember Sarmier Biggs calledall of the platoon sergeants
from across the battalion battlespace back to Azif and I was
like Sarmier, we're in contactevery day.

(30:58):
Repeatedly I was like I don'tknow if I can afford to leave my
platoon's position.
And you know, first Sergeant,of course, was adamant, and so
Sergeant Major wants a thing,it's what's going to happen.
And I felt like I had triedreally hard to give you know
task condition standards andlike set up a goblet or whatever
it would be.
And I remember I got back offthe striker and I got back out

(31:24):
there to maywand and it was thisclose to like completely going
lord of the flies I rememberthat I was like, what is going
on in here?
I was like, oh my god, it's sobad mcmillian, you ruined it.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
yeah, it was totally, totally different personality
types is that I?
I didn't come from a soldieringbackground.
You know, really my onlyinteraction was straight
academic, from a schoolhouseperspective of airborne school
ranger, school eyeball likewater leader, school combatives,
and then boom straight to aplatoon, uh whirlwind for

(32:03):
basically two months and thencoming in right in the middle of
that, that mission and when,when you left, uh and it came
back and I'm going to blameJones, I think Jones was the
biggest reason.
I mean he talked me into it.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
It's convenient, but it's also completely true.
Jones wouldn't even try to denyit either.
Jones would completely on it.
He's like yeah, it sucked outthere.
It's like you know you're right, it did suck out there.
But putting your helmet on inthe tower is not a bad idea.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Yeah especially after we left.
And what happened?
Uh, you're, I remember doingone of those patrols and I'm
pretty sure that we found like asniper, uh, a rubber into the
sniper scope for the eyepiece onone of the rooftops out there,
and it could have been like whenyou guys were getting in some
of those previous engagements,but I always had in the back of

(32:55):
my mind that there wasdefinitely a sniper somewhere
there, and I think that wasdefinitely validated after we
ended up leaving.
But thank God we had wetlickand his, um, hillbilly ingenuity
being able to run everything.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
I remember we got to Noggin it was the very first day
and that first sergeant and hewas apparently he was like the
only first sergeant in thatorganization or the paratroopers
that we were relieving whodidn't have a tab and he was
apparently he was like the onlyfirst sergeant in that
organization or the paratroopersthat we were relieving who
didn't have a tab and he waswell, whatever, he had his way
about him.
And he's showing me around andall this stuff, which is great.

(33:30):
He's trying to play a good hostand he shows us that broken
shower trailer.
Right, it didn't work and theywere like they had the water
blivet and they were just takingshowers, standing on a pallet
and turning on the valve hoseand letting like water just pour
out of the blivet through thehose onto them while they still
on a pallet with this brokenshower connex next to them.

(33:51):
And I looked over at Wedlake andI was like hey, see what you
can do with that.
And he's like, okay, and hestarts tinkering around.
And then we're and he's likeokay, and he starts tinkering
around, and then we're alltalking in the cp and it was not
even a couple hours later andwedlake walks in.
He's like, hey, star currents.
I was like, yeah, what's up,wedlake?

(34:11):
He's like, hey, can I show yousomething?
I'm like, was it important?
I'm kind of talking.
The first one's talking to usand he's like, oh, this is
you're gonna like this.
So I'm like, okay.
So he takes us out there and hehad figured out how to get it
to work and we had just shown upthat day and they had been
there for months without showersand the first sergeant was

(34:33):
actually very upset with usabout that.
He did not appreciate that wehad made him look bad by getting
something to work and I waslike like I've never taken those
kinds of things into account, Iguess.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
I definitely I remember that company that we
ripped out with not sayinganything bad about any of them,
but I remember one specificexample of when we were cleaning
out the talk and I think itmight have been Turner, I don't
know who it was was grabbingsome of the files and we
shredded all the files and oneof those files was the CD of all

(35:08):
the property documentation forthat entire company, like
basically complete package readyto go, and then in one moment
shredded that.
But I remember thatLieutenant's interaction, just
how hostile it was and like thepetty things he would do.
If you remember, in the littlewhiteboard in the back with the
day they left hey, have fun forthe rest of your six months in

(35:30):
Afghanistan.
We're going back to the U Slike okay, man, I'm sorry that
we we ruined your day.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, it was.
They were that, and I trulyhave nothing against any
organization in the Army, butthat interaction certainly left
a particular impression on me ofthat larger organization.
I mean because I've rippedrepeatedly.
We ripped twice with no slackwhile I was previously in other

(36:03):
deployments and once with polarbears and no slack.
They were consistently about itA little wild, but about it
Like they were very aggressiveand you know like, okay, yeah,
this smells right, you know this, you know this feels like it
makes sense.
The interactions with the folkswe had in Afghanistan did not

(36:25):
make me want to ever be there.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
Yeah, no, I I agree a hundred percent.
Like, uh, that rip that we didreally wasn't, I guess, a rip at
all.
Um, it was.
It was interesting Cause we hadto basically completely
reinvent all of that to includethe relationships.
And there was several times youalready mentioned one where,
basically that we got a callfrom the agency for the green on

(36:51):
blue threat.
But, if you remember, I wasgoing out to do a property book
inspection and some of thosecops or outposts that we had,
and I had to check serialnumbers for generators.
The one day that I did notbring a linguist with me was the
one day that they thought I wasgoing out there to steal their
generator.
And I'll never forget like theyhad a line.

(37:12):
Uh, they were all outside and Icome, you know, walking out of
the striker, like from a littleclipboard, and they think I'm
going to take it, and they haveall their guns drawn at me.
The striker, like from thelittle clip, poor, and they
think I'm going to take it, andthey have all their guns drawn
at me and I can't remember whoit was on the radio is like, sir
, we have all our guns pointedat them.
So then all of our strikerspointed at them and I'm like, oh
my god, this is not good.
Well, uh, but I was able tofigure out a way to to get that

(37:34):
to go away.
And then, uh, bring thelinguist out, like dude, all I
need is the serial number.
I'm not taking away yourgenerator, I promise, but that
was interesting.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, it was strange how something which would seem
rhythmic or very normal hadtaken on a whole new life
because of the preceding unit'sfocus.
Having been in other areas, thework it gave us to do was
pretty, uh, significant and justthe fact that, like I mean wed

(38:04):
like again, like, as an example,like local inside the perimeter
, um, they were like, say, theyhad a freezer trailer they had,
they had a way to refrigerateand preserve food, um, so they
didn't have to eat those.
You know, know, mres or MRAs,you know they could actually
cook and they had a kitchen unitand everything, and then they
just didn't.
They didn't even know what theyhad.

(38:27):
Like we were finding steak andwe're finding all this food.
And it was like they had drygoods, they had seasonings, they
had all these things that theycould have been utilizing to
help improve their soldiers'lives or just give them a small
taste of humanity, and it justwasn't being put to use and it
was just it's like wow, you guyshave lived like this the whole
time on purpose.
It's like, wow, that's wild I.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
I vividly remember that, like when we, when we
moved to nogum I, the quality oflife just dramatically improved
for everyone, to include likethe food that we had.
We basically had like our ownlittle mini defect.
We were getting pretty biglogistics pushes and if you
remember I don't know if youremember this or not I call them
fatty cakes.
I may or may not have given ourguys the fatty cakes and I gave

(39:15):
them to our Afghan partners.
I'm like, oh, hey, guys, here'sall your muffins and cookies
and cakes.
And we would always hey, whyare we only getting protein and
like vegetables, like I don'tknow, we're just not getting
fatty cakes.
Man, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
What is the?
Um?
I remember we made one of thoserare trips.
I really did not enjoy being inthe vicinity of the company
headquarters uh, you knowvariety of reasons, but, uh, one
of the rare trips I did go upthere to the company CP.
I got a peek inside the uh, thecompany freezer truck and I

(39:53):
just immediately lost my mindand just have the squad leaders
just just take anything out ofthere you want, cause obviously
they don't care what's in there,cause it was just thrown in.
It was like looking inside ayoung child's dirty closet.
Like, as soon as the, as soonas the freezer door opened, the
stuff was spilling out and itwas.
There was no organizationalsystem in place at all.
And it's not just that itwasn't organized and that, you
know, hurt, my, you know, ocdfeelings about it.

(40:16):
It was that like, like the,they had things that, even
though refrigerated, would stillgo bad, like they had lobster
in there, they had steak inthere, they had all.
They had crab legs, they hadall of these things that a
soldier would love to eat on adeployment, but instead it was
just all in piles and it waslike you don't even know what

(40:36):
you have.
There's no way you have anunderstanding of what you have
on hand.
Like you don't know your dos,you don't even know what you
have.
There's no way you have anunderstanding of what you have
on hand.
Like you don't know your DOS,you don't know, like, how much
you have available, you know,for this UIC or any other.
Like you don't even have adistro plan or anything.
It's like okay, we're justgoing to take whatever we want
and you're stuck with the restbecause you're obviously not
concerned about what you have.
And yeah, it was.
It was wild.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Team.
Let's take a quick break fromthis episode, and I want to
share an additional leadershipresource with you, and that is
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(41:19):
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To lead others well, thatstarts by leading yourself well.
If you want to learn more, youcan go to
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(41:40):
Back to the episode.
That's one of the biggest traitsthat I took away from your
leadership style was thatattention to detail, and I still
carry it to the day.
Like with some of the programs,if you were to ask me how much
money something is or how longthe contract is that we're doing

(42:03):
it with, who's the vendor, likejust all of those things, I
have it very structured in mymind because I keep detailed
notes.
I have systems in place.
Those systems are repeatable.
They're scalable to differentjobs.
I'm sure you, as anon-commissioned officer, you
probably use some of the sametrackers that you used as a
first sergeant as now as asergeant major, as you're

(42:24):
growing, not necessarilyreinventing the wheel, but that
little bit of attention todetail can save you so much work
.
And it can also improve theorganization, because just
applying a little bit of thoughtand brainpower can dramatically
improve the entire organizationfor everyone.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Absolutely, and it's yes, very much.
Organization for everyone.
Absolutely, and it's uh, yes,very much, uh.
So I spent a few years as aranger instructor um, in between
, scalpel tune sergeant time,right.
So after being a scalpel tunesergeant, I went off to seventh
ID headquarters, and this isabout the end of 2014.
And I was put onto a strikerproject or a JBLM.

(43:05):
I'm very proud to say that thatprogram is still in ATARs today
.
I created this three-weekprogram, for it's called a
Striker Leader Transition Course, and so I did that, and then I
finally was selected to go be aranger instructor at Fort Moore.
Ranger instructor at Fort Mooreand that was something I

(43:31):
continuously tried to reinforceto ranger students was attention
to detail, not just for thesake of it, but it's all about
applying it in a contextuallycorrect way so that it becomes
functional and everyone.
There's this ongoing endlessdebate about what is the utility
or the purpose of ranger schoolin the modern army.

(43:52):
Is it a leadership school?
Is a small unit tactics school?
Is it this, is it that?
And it's uh.
I boil it down to the same ideaof like.
If you tell a young lieutenantlike hey, sir, you're to help
facilitate coordinating driver'straining.
They're going to go nuts and goonline and find all these
little doodads and PowerPointsand whatnot that people have

(44:14):
created and they're going to belike, oh, we're going to do
these tasks.
Or you tell them like, oh,you're going to organize your
platoon is responsible forcertifying through this STIX
process on its way to live fire.
Or you're going to, you know,let's get some situational
training going, and they're justgoing to go nuts making up
weird stuff and it's like sothere, you have to tell them
it's like, just apply someattention to detail.

(44:35):
Remember, you're in a verylarge old organization.
You know the United States ArmyInfantry and there are
documents that you can use tohelp drive your certification
process or your training plan,so that you don't have to make
up anything.
You don't have to be creative,you don't have to sell a pen to
your commander or yourcommander's commander.
You can just use metal, becausethere's key collective tasks,

(45:00):
there are individual criticaltask lists for every MOS and pay
grade, and you can use all ofthat, if applied appropriately,
to both assume risk when neededand to identify focus points or
points of friction.
And it's yeah, it's beencontinuously and persistently
helpful to be able to be precisein a way that helps as much as

(45:26):
it possibly could, like saysomething as simple as knowing
army regulations appropriatelyand, when needed, down to
chapter verse, not for the sakeof being pedantic or semantic,
but say, as a leader when actingon behalf of soldiers.
Like, say, like quoting armyregulation 420-1 in regards to

(45:47):
unaccompanied housing orbarracks, as it relates to the
relationship between you knowthe housing management office
right, who uses the armybarracks management program
handbook.
You know all that loadedlanguage, but that's not
doctrine.
They're supposed to use armyregulation 4-1, and you'll see

(46:08):
it a lot in the Army.
I know you saw this as acommander here at Fort Johnson
was soldiers who areunintentionally double booked in
a room in the barracks.
But there's guidance in thatregulation that says soldiers
who share a room are supposed tohave minimum square footage
requirements for private spaceand communal space and

(46:30):
noncommissioned officers inunaccompanied housing are not
supposed to have a roommate, andthat's written into the
regulation.
And somehow not at all isolatedto Fort Johnson, but across the
whole Army.
Not at all isolated to FortJohnson, but across the whole
Army.
It's to the point where I'msure you saw it earlier this
year all of the branch, seniorenlisted advisors, like, say,

(46:58):
sergeant Major of the Army andall of his counterparts across
all the branches were testifyingbefore Congress about quality
of life issues on the enlistedside, and I mean high hopes they
can fix it.
But it's crazy how all this isat our fingertips and then what
do we do with it?

Speaker 3 (47:13):
That's an excellent point.
I think it goes back to likeone of your strengths is your
attention to detail and yourunderstanding of regulations and
policies, and not from likewhat you just said, not from a
standpoint of trying to makesomeone look less intelligent,
but understanding regulationsand policies make you dangerous,
because if someone were to tellyou something and you already

(47:37):
know, well, nope, that's nottrue.
Show me the policy or theregulation that says that we
need to do this this way and itdoesn't, so we're not going to
do it that way.
And it allows you to makebetter informed decisions.
At the end of the day, doingwhat a leader does, and it's
just taking care of the sons anddaughters who wear this uniform
.
I, I feel that you are we'reeither the best ranger

(48:00):
instructor or the absolute worstto have because of your
superpower.
So I'm curious what your takeis on that.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yeah, I enjoyed being a ranger instructor so very
thoroughly.
It was so much fununadulterated fun for me.
I felt like a kid in a candystore every day, because at the
time so this was about thesummer of 2017 through all of
2021.
And so I reported to 4th RTB asa KD, or now CD, complete

(48:34):
Sergeant First Class, and so Iwas among the older of the
population as an instructor.
4th Ranger Training Battalionat the time was conducting
training at the squad level.
They had not yet transitionedto what the current model is,
which is platoon operationsthroughout the curriculum.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Interesting.
It was squad when I wentthrough.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Right.
So squad ops at Darby wasnormal for me as well, and
having 13, 14 on the low end to18 is the ideal max for a ranger
squad in derby phase and havingthem for a 24-hour period that
was the most fun, but it was.

(49:15):
It was an opportunity to seegrowth in motion because you
would see these same studentsfor three continuous weeks
pretty much all the way from rapweek all the way through patrol
cycle, and you can see themeither come together or tear
themselves apart.
And I got to participate in thein the front end of patrols.
You give classes.

(49:35):
So the progression is aclassroom period of instruction
and then a ungraded practicalexercise led by a certified
ranger instructor and then astudent-led patrol graded by a
ranger instructor, evaluatingranger students on execution of
leadership tasks in a tacticalenvironment.

(49:56):
And so at the end of the phasethe students write critiques
before they go to mountains.
The end of phase critiques andthere are things in there where
the it.
It's a very fill in the blankkind of a one page sheet and
then they ask there arequestions like are there any
ranger instructors who stood outto you, or are there any

(50:16):
periods of instruction that needto be changed or improved and
things like that.
When I did come up, it wouldtend to be that I, I would give
you know, starting first classkerns gives excellent classes,
but then starting first classkerns is horrible to have when
you're being graded, becausehe's very thorough when he

(50:37):
grades as well.
Oh, it was, but it was I don'tknow.
The standard.
Yeah and it was.
The standard is very impartialand it was.
I mean, I would tell them allthe time At Darby phase.
I would tell them I'm notcertifying you as a ranger.
I'm certifying to mycounterparts at Mountain phase
and Florida phase that if I wasyour platoon sergeant and you

(51:00):
were one of my squad leaders,leading one of my squads on a
combat patrol, I wouldn't wantto kill you.
I could deal with you anddevelop you if I needed to.
But you are a leader who ismaking sound decisions under
duress and it was a reallyawesome experience with a really
great population.

(51:21):
They're easily some of the most, some not all, of course, not
all but some really excellentnon-commissioned officers and
commissioned officer leaders.
It was a good time.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
I always kind of regret that now the
transitioning to acquisitions, Ican never go back into any of
those roles, and the one thingthat I missed most out of
anything is just spending timewith soldiers.
That is the one thing that Iwish I out of anything is just
spending time with soldiers.
That is the one thing that Iwish I could find more time of,
because stuff I'm doing now isextremely impactful, but being

(51:55):
able to give back, especiallytime and mentorship to young
soldiers the one thing that Iwish I could find more time or a
way to do 100%.
So I would have loved to havebeen an RI, but unfortunately I
can never go back to do that.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
It's certainly one of the only reasons I'm still in,
if not the only, I mean.
You say you're at 16 years.
I'm at 22.
I'm exceptionally old.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
You need to stay in, though I would tell you that the
Army needs more leaders likeyou, and, if I had my way, you
would be the Sergeant Major ofthe Army.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
I just kind of keep putting it where.
I've never sought a job or apromotion.
I just kind of keep doingwhatever job I have until
someone comes along and tells meI have another job and luckily
the trend has been upward.
So I was actually slated toleave 4th RTV at the end of 2019
.
And I'm sure you remember 1stSergeant Hare, right?

(53:02):
So he's now Sergeant Major Hareand he was the incoming Command
Sergeant Major for 4th RTV atthat time.
And he remembered me and heasked he's like, do you want to
stay and you'll be the HHC FirstSergeant?
I said, well, sure, that'd begreat.
Thank you, sergeant Major.
So that finally all came to aclose and I come over here to

(53:25):
Fort Johnson and then, uh,sergeant Major Siglock Um, so he
was first Sergeant Siglock withus on that trip and so he's
here now as the brigade commandSergeant Major and he, uh, it
was an ambush.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
We all gravitated to the same duty station.
Yeah, it was uh, and it's, it'sbeen great.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
He's gravitated to the same duty station.
Yeah, it was, and it's beengreat.
He's awesome to work for.
I've learned so much from him.
But I went to work in AlphaCompany 2-2 just like it was a
normal day.
I was after PT, I'm in myoffice and then the battalion
sergeant major just comes inbeelines into my office and
closes the door on me.
And I was, you know, I I messedsomething up, someone did

(54:09):
someone die, someone in jail,like what happened?
So you don't know, you saw me,drafts were just you'd come in
and everything's fine.
You know, um, you close thedoor right away and he's like
current sit down.
I'm like, oh my god, likesergeant major, is everything
all right?
And he's like the current sitdown, be quiet.
I'm like okay, and he's likehe's like you're not fired, but
you're leaving.
I was like it sounds like I justgot fired, sergeant major, and

(54:30):
he's like no, you're not fired,but you do need to go right now
and you need to go to brigadeheadquarters and meet your new
counterpart.
You start tomorrow.
I was like what?
Like sergeant major, I'm prettysure I just got fired and and
he's like no, kearns, shut up.
You didn't get fired, you got apromotion and it took me a few

(54:52):
months to understand and we wereso close.
We were this close to going tothe box.
I'd done the whole train-upcycle and it was about two weeks
out from the JRTC rotation forthe brigade and I had been with
this company all the way throughthe progression of the training
cycle and all of a sudden I'mnow leading the brigade
headquarters company and, um, Ifelt terrible for my counterpart

(55:16):
at brigade.
Uh, captain marilyn ponder,she's awesome, she's up in
alaska now, but, um, I was herfourth first sergeant in her one
command at the brigadeheadquarters company, oh wow,
and she had to try to keep thatall together by herself.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Were they not?
So when I was in there that wasdefinitely a coveted position
because I was a HHC commander in2-2.
So I started off Alpha Company,wolfpack, and then took over
Hawk Company.
But I always the HAC Brigadewas always the most challenging
company command position butalso one of the most rewarding

(55:57):
from a, I guess, a careerperspective is that when you got
that you were the one, you werenumber one.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yes, that is.
See that assessment is still inplace.
Yes, so Sarmier-Sigalock's lenson it is the last three of the
last four First Sergeants whohave been the HHC Brigade First
Sergeant have gone immediatelyto the Academy.
Ah, okay, and so it's like Istill I'm going to be signing my

(56:27):
evaluation from headquarterscompany, like this week, and
it's so.
The army saw me slotted in thatposition before the board
closed out and published allmail numbers for the academy
while I was there, the academywhile I was there, but I still

(56:47):
don't have in my high perms anevaluation for being that HAC
Brigade First Sergeant.
It's just being there, beingslotted in that bracket.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
I got to ask you when you were the Alpha Company
Commander were the doors stillblack and were there wolf logos
painted on?

Speaker 1 (57:04):
them.
They are.
It's all still that way.
It is still the wolf pack and,uh, headquarters company still
hot company.
We added a quote from death iscoming well, so that's, that has
stayed in place.
That's still there.
Uh, we added a quote to thewall on the back of the cough.
Um, it was from the medal ofhonor winner staff sergeant,

(57:29):
when, when 2-2 was under firstad or id season, big red one,
you know.
The quote to paraphrase was ifyou seek to make war on the
united states of america, justknow that someone else will
raise your sons and daughterslike, yeah, I can get behind
that absolutely that's the mostsavage quote.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
That was awesome.
When I found out where he camefrom, I was like, oh, that's,
that's it.
He's a ramrod.
That's pretty epic yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
So we uh we put that quote on in very large letters
and spray paint on the side ofthe cough.
And yeah, I mean the WolfCompany is still doing very well
.
It's a good crowd there.
I contend the limiting factorfor Third Brigade, 10th Mountain

(58:17):
Division, is certainly not thepeople or the leaders in the
organization.
It is the geographicdislocation from their higher
headquarters and thatinfrastructure and support that
comes with being co-located withyour two-star.
But I contend it's a good crowd.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Yeah, that was always a struggle being in 310 is that
you had two daddies, if thatmade sense, so you had to answer
to JRTC or the easy button whenrotations came through in terms
of taskers.
But you also still had toanswer to the JRTC or the easy
button when rotations camethrough in terms of taskers.
But you also still had tomaintain the same standard of an
18th Airborne Corps riflecompany and under 3rd Brigade I

(58:57):
think one of the morechallenging locations to kind of
command, just because of thedifferent burdens, because
you're right at a JRTC rotation,so the ability for you to get
tasks.
I can't remember.
I was a JRTC instructor beforeI took over command.
I think I did 26 rotations andI hope yeah, no right, I hope I

(59:18):
never see that place again inthe nicest way possible.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Yeah, so of all the ctc rotations, I've done the
jrtc rotation, I did 2309 with,uh, the brigade headquarters.
That's the only rotation I haveat jrtc, except for we were
augmentees once augment, weaugmented wolf company augmented
, uh, geronimo once, which was,honestly, that was a great
experience.

(59:45):
Um, it was a good chance todemystify small unit tactics and
reinforce the importance of allof my favorite things noise and
light discipline and you know,PCCs and PCIs and all that fun
stuff.
It was a great chance for ourteam leaders and squad leaders
to get a chance in the fieldwith their soldiers in a

(01:00:08):
relatively low stressenvironment, Cause we were the
bad guys really out, for theyreally didn't worry about us too
much.
It was just like this is achance to flex your mental
muscles at this organizationallevel and we can, you know, we
can turn this into a sticks line.
It's just force on four stickswith, you know, a thinking
opponent, but it was prettyawesome.

(01:00:30):
Um, all of my other ctcs havebeen through ntc.
I am entirely too familiar withwhales gap as we're in this.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Yeah that place stinks.
I just remember being a mop forin july or august, the last
rotation when I was an XO, andjust thinking this is just the
worst place in the world.
The Army chooses the worstplace for training centers.
I guess there's a reason whythey do it, because it was
horrible yeah it's a relativelylow developmental value, or like

(01:01:01):
low they perceive it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
the state that leases that land to the federal
government perceives it as verylow yield as a tax income
producing or an income producinglocation.
They're like no one's going todevelop this land so you guys
can use it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
So what's next?
So SART Major Academy when areyou coming to DC?
I want to be here for a hotminute, so you need to come to
DC.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
As much as I would love to go down all of the
rabbit holes, like I would loveto, like you said, like you know
this, uh, learning about allthe technical aspects, about,
you know, emerging technologies,growth, markets of the cutting
edge of you know how we're gonnafight the next fight
effectively, that would thatwould be amazing.
But I have this thing about thebeltway where it's like, uh, I

(01:01:56):
don't, I don't know that I'mever going to develop a love of
large, overdevelopedmetropolitan cityscapes.
Yeah, um, plus that, unless Ican live, can you okay?
So say, if I get stationed atthe pentagon which I have no
idea why anyone at the pentagonwould have any interest in me
being there, but it's could Ilive in west virginia and

(01:02:17):
commute to the pentagon?
Is that viable?

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
so you let me research that, because I know
people live in West Virginia andthey do commute, so I would
have to think about that.
And now, from the militarystandpoint, probably not, but I
grew up in rural West Virginiaso I wholeheartedly think that

(01:02:42):
that's a genius idea, wild andwonderful.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
At least an hour and a half an hour and 40 minute
commute probably.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
That's rough.
Yeah, that'd be a long day, butI, just as you know, I'm not
very well-rounded.
I only have so many hobbies,but I'm really into my hobbies.
I am unwilling to part wayswith my hobbies, so to say, in
order to get stationed at acertain place or another.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
So I'll tell you this , dc, if you haven't lived here,
it's kind of the metro reallyhelps it out.
You can live out in the countryand still kind of commute in to
work.
I have a lot of my co coworkerswho live very far out and they
live in the very rural parts ofof the country but you have to

(01:03:33):
just be willing to to commute.
That's the issue.
Like we live in Fort Belvoirright now, uh, right by the
general's housing, so theythey've already messed up cause
I wear my ranger panties outsidereligiously.
I haven't changed my ways atall in my bright green Crocs,
but yeah, it's very close.
But I agree with you, man, Imiss Fort Johnson.

(01:03:56):
It used to be Fort Polk.
I miss that small town kind offeel.
It was definitely nice to raisethe kids in the season of life
they were in.
I miss that small town feeling.
You don't get that with withwhere we're at now yeah, it's,
uh, it's got its charms.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
I mean there's certainly downsides, you know,
but I mean it's because youalways, you see it all the time.
You know someone's like oh, youknow, I'm headed to fort
johnson soon, what you knowthey're.
They're always asking for thebad news, right, if, like,
someone reaches out or like say,in sponsorship, you know, first
, I don't know, I'm headed thatway soon.
I have a small family this sideor the other, uh, what can you

(01:04:34):
tell me about?
And they're always asking forthe bad news.
They're asking for thediagnosis of cancer in advance,
and it's like.
It's like you know there's,there are negatives, but I I
remember being stationed atschofield and there were people
that would complain about beingin Hawaii and I yeah.
I perceive that it's.
It's a mindset issue where ifyou, if you look for the

(01:04:57):
negative, you're going to findit, no matter where you're at.
If you look for the positive,you'll find that it's, there's
always going to be somethingpositive.
It's just what are you?
What are you even looking forto begin with?

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
I love that.
I think you're spot on, brotheris that if we're trying to buy,
like a Toyota Tacoma, wheneverwe go out, we'll subconsciously
pick up on all the ToyotaTacomas everywhere around us
Like man.
There's a lot of those.
And the same as if you comeinto an organization regardless
if it's in the military orprofessional organization the

(01:05:29):
civilian side with a negativeoutlook, thinking that this is
going to be bad and that you'realready looking for the
negatives.
You're going to have amiserable time.
And me and my wife totally didthe opposite of that.
I you're going to hate me Iturned down going to Hawaii
after my OCT time to stay andextend at Fort Johnson because

(01:05:53):
the command queue was so small Icould have basically went right
into a command.
So I turned down PCS intoHawaii, which could have been
like maybe my only time in life,but I saw the positives.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Right and I mean, wow , pcs from fort johnson all the
way to hawaii, that's, that's aconsiderable endeavor.
Plus, yeah, I mean it's a bigshift, it's a big move for a
family, for sure.
And uh, that thing about theshort command queue, that's
totally still real, both of the.
So I've had seven totalcommanders as a first sergeant
and as a three at fourth RTB,two and two, two and two at

(01:06:30):
brigade headquarters and both ofmy commanders at both my
counterparts at two, two werestraight out of the pipeline,
they were straight out of tripleC, they had PCS and they had
been told in advance.
You know, hey, there'spotentially a pretty short queue
, but right now it looks likeyou're going to spend a little
bit of time and staff at thebattalion or brigade level, you

(01:06:51):
know, just developing or doingwhat's needed, and all of a
sudden they're, instead ofspending that time, you know, at
that staff position, all of asudden they get that midnight
phone call, hey, tomorrowmorning for an interview, um,
with your new raider, and it was.
That was, oh, that wasinteresting.

(01:07:13):
And then it was for both of thecommanders.
So that was both commanders ata, at 2-2 and then at brigade
headquarters.
Normally it's.
I mean it'd be ideal and Idon't know if it's really
feasible at 310 in particularbut having the brigade
headquarters company be a secondcommand position, because a lot

(01:07:35):
of times those battalioncommanders really need that
seasoned, excellent captain tobe the HHC at their battalion to
help keep the house in order.
Right, but both of thecommanders I had at brigade
headquarters, that was theironly, that was their first
command and so, yeah, that wasits own special fun challenge
was, uh, adapting to each newcounterpart and then learning

(01:07:59):
them and allowing them to learnme and so on, and just trying to
become as functional a team aspossible.
Try to minimize negativeimpacts for the soldiers
throughout that process.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
That's one of the best things I think about the
military, as they teach us, isthe adaptability.
16 years now and for me, beinga platoon leader all the way
till now, I think I've had atotal of 10 different jobs.
So in a span of 16 years, 10different jobs.
Each one was a different scopeand duties and responsibilities,

(01:08:32):
some completely, totallydifferent.
I was in PO, aviation, workingarmy systems architectures and
then small drones two totallydifferent things.
And now I'm doing technicalsurveillance and I'm getting
ready to take over SOCOMrobotics.
So it's a huge learning curve.
But that's the one thing themilitary does so well is that

(01:08:56):
they keep you in your discomfortzone and when you do get ready
to transition, a lot of thehardships that, like veterans
that I've seen in the civilianworld, just absolutely crush it,
because things that are commonto us, that we can kind of work
through problem sets, are notcommon in the civilian world.

(01:09:16):
People will stay in a job foras long as possible because they
don't want to stretch.
But I always think it from thestandpoint is that if you feel
uncomfortable, I think that'sgood, because that means you're
growing, that means you don'tfully understand everything and
that means that you care becauseyou are, you feel uncomfortable
enough to where you.
You're having like an emotionalkind of response to it.

(01:09:37):
I always get anxiety whenever Itake over a new job, just like
when I got ready to be your PL.
I always feel that healthylevel of anxiety, but that tells
me that I still care and, atthe end of the day, that's why I
keep doing what I do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
It's time for our final show segment that I like
to call the killer bees.
These are the same fourquestions that I ask every guest
on the Tales of Leadershippodcast Be brief, be brilliant,
be present and be gone.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
Question one what do you believe separates a good
leader from a great leader?

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
A good leader from a great leader would be, in my
mind, investment, because to methe loaded language of leader,
contextually with the army.
A leader is specificallyassociated with the development
of their personnel, because youdon't lead machines.

(01:10:40):
You use them right, you employthem, but you lead people,
people.
You lead them by.
You can't lead everyone thesame and a good leader will
understand how leadership works,so they'll understand what
they're expected to do in theirleadership role.
But a great leader is going tounderstand how to get the

(01:11:03):
absolute best in that momentfrom each of their personnel,
because they know what makeseach of their personnel tick and
that each of their personnelare different, and that's okay.
But knowing not just that eachof them are different, but they
know, but knowing not just thateach of them are different, but
they know them well enoughpersonally and professionally to
know how to get that extra bitout of them and how to make sure

(01:11:28):
that that juice is worth asqueeze.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
That is the best quote I think I've ever heard.
I filmed 21 or 81 episodes sofar.
I think I've ever heard Ifilmed 21 or 81 episodes so far.
You use machines, you leadpeople.
It is so simple and, I think,extremely effective because one
of the biggest.
I'm breaking my rule of beingbrief.
I blame you, but in themilitary I've seen leaders who

(01:11:55):
adopt a transitional mindsetbecause they only know they're
going to be in a role for a year.
So they try to use people asmachines, I guess as a basic way
to use them to progress theirown career for the next phase.
And I've always been of themindset is that I want to leave
the organization better off thanI took it and I've had that
same mentality going into everysingle job and I attribute a lot

(01:12:18):
of that mindset to you groomingme as a very young Lieutenant
and that served me well and Ithink that's always had me
separate from my peers of likeI'm serving, I'm not being
selfish and trying to take awayto move Okay.
Second question what is oneresource that you could
recommend to our listeners?

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
I would recommend and always be willing to let people
know that you don't knoweverything.
Because if the expectation isthat you're the one who never
asks a question, and that can belateral, that can be vertical,
but it's be willing to learn asa leader, and that resource is

(01:13:02):
the people around you, whetherthat's vertically or laterally.
And I'm not saying walk into anoffice or a room and ask
someone what time it is ratherthan look at your watch.
I'm saying lean on otherpeople's strengths to develop
yours from where they currentlyare to where they need to be, or
understand that you don't knowit all and that, no matter how

(01:13:24):
much you do know, you couldafford to learn some more,
regardless of the subject.
Because the Army, unlike theNavy or the Air Force, like I
say, the people in the Navy nooffense to anybody, but people
in the Navy are there to helpthe boats do their thing.
The people in the Air Force arethere to make sure that bombs

(01:13:50):
don't fall off the planes inflight too early or too late.
The Army is made up of itspeople and we are unique in that
regard.
So the resources, the peoplearound you because it's not a
com or amil or a website.
I mean, those are out there,but um, I mean army, army pubs,
I'd say, is the cheap answer?
Uh, read, uh, take the time toread.
I mean, how much time do wespend on our phones?
You can read, you can downloadthings and then share it and

(01:14:12):
then ask questions If you're notsure, when in doubt, over
communicate.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
If you're not sure, when indoubt, over-communicate, yeah,
100%.
Question three is if you couldgo ask back in time and give
your younger self a piece ofadvice what would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
I would say to myself , to my younger self gosh, if I
could go back and tell them onething, it would be probably to
not be scared of college,because not just, you know, for
the times we live in, becauseapparently that's something that
is going to be addressed in oneway or another in the next, you

(01:14:49):
know, spending resolution orwhatever they do but it's also
that I have taken some collegeclasses and I was immensely
disappointed in the experiencethat it was so underwhelming and
so easy and so trivial and Iwas like, wow, people pay so
much money for this.

(01:15:10):
This is ridiculous, and I wish Iwould have just gotten it done
sooner.
And at this point in my life.
I'm 42 years old, I've been inthe Army for more than half of
my natural life and I'm havingto face down the dragon of not
having an undergraduate degreeand I need to address that.
And so I'm going to have tocommit myself to, you know,

(01:15:32):
completing the curriculum of theNCOES, the Sergeant Major's
Academy, and also get myundergrad degree at the same
time, because I didn't choose todo it sooner.
And so I would say, if there'sone thing I could say is I'd say
derrick, go to college and justget it done.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
I love it.
Last question if anyone wantsto reach out to you, um, because
of this podcast, something thatthey heard what would be the
best way to do that, and isthere any way that someone could
add value to any of yourmissions that you're currently
on right now?

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
People can reach out to me.
I'm on Facebook.
I don't use monikers or strangenames or whatever that would be
titled.
It's Derek Kearns.
Luckily, if you look me up onglobal, there's only one of me.
There's no numerals or anythingwith my name.
So my parents were superawesome and spelled my name

(01:16:25):
strangely, but just as itappears is how it's spelled.
So derrickakearnsmil, that's me, and, um, if anybody, uh, is
going to be in the bliss areafor the next 14, 16.
That's where I'm going to besoon, you know.
By all means, please reach out,or if anyone has any anything
they want to hit me up about,they can feel free to do so at
their convenience.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
Derek brother, it's been an absolute honor and
privilege and I can't wait foryou to get stationed to DC next.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
If I get to see a person sooner than later, I'd
love it.
If you guys are ever umanywhere near I got I'm more
than willing to take a road trip.
Come see.
I.
Thank you for inviting me on.
This is unexpectedly fun, notjust to get to talk to you but
to do a podcast.
But of course, it was a greatto, of course, great to see you.

(01:17:14):
Um, thank you, yeah, appreciateit, yeah, brother.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
Yeah, appreciate it, yeah brother, have a good night.
All right, team.
That was our episode with Derek, and now I think you're going
to get a small taste of some ofthe mentorship I had when I was
a brand new platoon leader Derekis a phenomenal, phenomenal
leader.
Leader Derek is a phenomenal,phenomenal leader.

(01:17:41):
The only reason that I am who Iam today is a lot of the
lessons that I had the honor andprivilege to learn from Derek,
and we didn't even get into halfof the questions and a lot of
the stories I wanted to get into, and that's because I tried to
stick to an hour, so this ismore consumable.
But I could totally do anotherepisode with Derek and I might
do that in the future, becausehe's a leader that you guys need

(01:18:03):
to understand from a standpointif you want to truly become a
better leader.
So what are the top threetakeaways?
The first one that I have Iwrote down, is punch above your
weight, and in the army that isa very normal thing to do,
especially in thenon-commissioned corps, is that
you are put into a position,without actually getting that

(01:18:24):
rank or title, to learn thatposition and then when you
finally take it on and you getthat rank, it's game one.
Like Derek said, and I thinkthat's one of the most important
things, when you are starting aleadership role, always shoot
for the next level up.
Punch above your weight.

(01:18:44):
Don't just focus on the bareminimum to be successful in the
job that you're currently in,right now, because life and
leadership is a growth journey.
Focus on the next level up.
Always shoot to excel above thestandard, not for selfish
reasons and to shine a spotlighton how great you are, just
because that is what purposeful,accountable leaders do.

(01:19:06):
They are above the standard andthey try to push themselves to
be above that standard, becausewhen you raised yourself to a
certain level, everyone aroundyou will rise with you.
The second key takeaway that Ihave is grade to the standard.
So a lot of the line with whatwe just talked about, but

(01:19:27):
grading to the standard meansthat there is only one standard
within the organization and it'salso important to understand
that that standard that has beenset is the bare minimum and the
norm.
This is a norm of how youshould interact and the success
that you should have from aday-to-day basis to just get by,
just to be average.

(01:19:49):
You need to go above that, likeI just talked about before, but
make sure that you're alwaysholding people to the standard.
One thing that I see inleadership too often is people
avoiding hard conversations, andyou cannot afford to do that in
leadership, because when youavoid hard conversations, you

(01:20:10):
just set a new standard becauseI guarantee you there's somebody
watching.
You always have to choose thehard right over the easy wrong.
And the final key takeaway thatI got is a quote, and I think
it's beautiful because it'ssimple and it's effective.
You use machines, you leadpeople.
The Army does an amazing job onleading people because people

(01:20:36):
are the system.
The soldier is a system ofsystems.
At the core of everything thatwe wear our body, armor, our
nods, the tanks we drive, theguns that we use everything
originates from the user.
The user is the system.
But, more importantly, theculture within the army is

(01:20:56):
focused on people first andmission always People.
People is what we do, what wedo.
It's why, when we go to war,one casualty is too many.
We always try to bring everyoneback.
And if you can switch your brainto understand that we use
machines this microphone thatI'm recording this one, the
headphones that I have on rightnow, the camera that is staring

(01:21:18):
back at me.
These are all machines to usewith a purpose, but we don't
have that same rigid processwhen we lead people, because
people are more malleable.
We have good days, we have baddays.
We lead people.
Lead them means being ashepherd, guiding them,
mentoring them along the journey, and Derek dropped amazing

(01:21:40):
nugget and I love that quote.
You use machines, you leadpeople.
All right, team, do me a favor.
You can go tomcmillianleadershipcoachingcom.
You can click on the leadershiptab.
You can look at all theadditional resources that I have
for you guys, which is ahundred percent free, to include
a blog article that encompassesall the key talking points that

(01:22:02):
I just completed with Derek.
So you don't have to take anynotes and I do it a hundred
percent free.
Make sure you share thispodcast with someone who is just
starting out on theirleadership journey and make sure
that you rate or subscribe tomy podcast on whatever platform
you listen.
And, as always, team, I'm yourhost, josh McMillian, saying

(01:22:25):
every day is a gift, don't wasteyours.
I'll see you next time.