#107 Michael Klemmer - Brewing Success After Service - Tales of Leadership

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The other part of it, though, is that everybody who
leaves the military islockstepped into a mindset that
any job that they take has to bea pay raise.
I'm moving from this job, I'mmoving from this career.
I'm moving from this rank tothis position.
I'm moving from 03 to 04.
That's a pay raise.
I'm now in charge of a biggerorganization.

(00:21):
I'm moving from 04 to 05, 05 to06, whatever right, it all
comes with a step pay increase.
You leave the military.
That's not the case.
You could leave the job, youcould go to a career, and you
could be like well, this is adirector role, and it could pay
30% less than what you weremaking in the military, without
benefits, bonuses and all thatother stuff, or the flip side

(00:42):
you could get out and make threetimes the amount that you were
making in the military, butyou're never home.
So it all comes with thetrade-off, and what you have to
realize is that compensation isnot tied to your rank or your
position or whatever, and it'snot tied to happiness.
You have to determine whatmatters to you and then go from

(01:03):
there.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
You're listening to the Tells the Leadership podcast
.
This podcast is for leaders atany phase on their leadership
journey to become a morepurposeful and accountable
leader what I like to call a pal.
Join me on our journey togethertowards transformational
leadership.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
All right team.
Welcome back to the Tells theLeadership podcast.
I am your host, josh McMillian.
I'm an active duty army officer.
I'm an army leadership coach,I'm the founder of McMillian
Leadership Coaching and I am ona journey to become the best
leader that I possibly can.
And I have a clear mission Iwant to end toxic leadership and
build a better leader what Ilike to call a purposeful,
accountable leader and I'm goingto do that by sharing

(01:46):
transformational stories andskills.
And on today's episode, I'mbringing you a transformational
leader Michael Kramer.
He is a US Army veteran who hasserved over 20 years.
He has been an enlisted soldierand he has been an officer

(02:07):
soldier and he has been anofficer and, most importantly,
he's an entrepreneur and thefounder of Aerial Resupply
Coffee.
This is a great episode,especially when you talk about
the transitioning out of themilitary and then creating your
own company.
So, as always, stay to the veryend and I'll provide you with
the top three takeaways that Itook from this episode, and you
can go toMcMillianLeadershipCoachingcom

(02:29):
and you can look at theleadership resources tab and
find this blog article thataccompanies this episode.
Let's go ahead and let on,michael.
Michael, welcome again.
I think it's funny every timethat I say that twice.
But welcome to the Tales ofLeaders podcast.
How are you doing, brother?

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Pretty good man.
How are you?
Thanks for having me on this.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, man, I'm excited.
I really love having militaryveterans on and I've had people
who are now ranging from JohnTroxell, david Petraeus to some
of my war buddies that my firstdeployment to Afghanistan.
To some of my war buddies thatmy first deployment to
Afghanistan.
And I love having veteranperspectives when it comes to
leadership and really just beingable to share their stories and

(03:11):
you have a very unique story.
But I think we should juststart off by if you could take
the time to provide an overviewto the listeners of who you are.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, well, so, mike Clemmer, I spent 20 years in the
Army.
First six I spent in the MIworld and then I commissioned at
the end of 2006 as a logisticsofficer, quartermaster, basic
branch, and spent the last 13years of my career doing various
deployments to the Middle East,just like a lot of us did in

(03:39):
the 2000s to 2020.
And, you know, spent some timerecruiting, spent some time in
trade, doc, ended my career as amajor and decided that I wanted
to do something different andpunched my ticket out of the
army, found a job in thecorporate world that I thought I
would enjoy and that's what Iwanted to do.

(04:01):
And then that took a sidewaysturn when it became something I
didn't want to do.
And then I started aerialresupply coffee.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
So you and I are at the same rank of when you, when
you decided to jump ship andleave the Army.
I'm at that rank and so many ofmy peers at the rank of major
decide that you're either all inand you're going for the 20
years if you're an officer forthe whole time and not enlisted
prior service or you decide toget out.

(04:31):
You get a taste of the S3XOlife and you're like, yeah, I
don't know if that's my life ornot, but I would love to start
off with the point of how youdefine leadership.
So, from your perspective,being a non-commissioned officer
working through the enlistedranks and the commissioned
officer and now leadingcivilians, most likely from

(04:52):
being an entrepreneur how do youdefine leadership?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well, I think leadership, you know, I mean you
look at the way the Armydefines it and it's, you know,
providing purpose, direction,motivation.
You know, at least from thenon-commissioned officer side,
right From the officer side,it's much more about you
management, which is, do peopleunderstand what is expected of

(05:27):
them?
And then, do they understand ordo they have the tools and the
resources to be successful, tomeet those expectations?

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, I think that's critical man Expectation
management, but also provide thetools and sometimes, at least
I've seen throughout my career,is that expectations are there
of what you need to do but youdon't have the tools to be
effective.
Within your job, and I think asa leader, that's one of the
things that you have to be ableto be willing to give up is
power, and part of that is thetools for your team to actually

(05:59):
implement and be successful.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
I would agree with that.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
So where did your leadership journey start and
what drove you to join the armyin early 2000s?

Speaker 1 (06:10):
well, joining the army was all about the fact that
I really wanted to eat and Iwas tired of being broke, so
like there.
So I'd like to say that therewas like this delusion of
grandeur way back in the daywhere I I was like I'm going to
join the army and serve mycountry and this is my lifelong
purpose, when in reality I was,you know, a dumb 22 year old who
needed to do something and Iwanted the army to kick me in

(06:33):
the butt to help move me in theright direction, which it did,
and so that's that's really youknow kind of why I started there
.
And you know, what the armyprovided more than anything, I
think, is a framework for me toreally develop myself as to who
I wanted to be and how I wantedto take care of myself, much
less take care of other people.

(06:53):
And the army forces you to takecare of other people because
that's just kind of the upperout leadership model that they
have Everybody's responsible forsomebody else.
You know each rank that yougain, you're responsible for a
wider scope than the rank before, and so you are naturally put
in a position where you eithertake care of the people below

(07:15):
you or the army will find a wayto move you back down to the
rank you're supposed to be.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, I have never been in an organization outside
of the army supposed to be.
Yeah, I have never been in anorganization outside of the Army
, but I can tell you that, atleast from my perspective, that
they groom you quite well versusother branches of what I've
seen for that level ofresponsibility, at least within
my wheelhouse and being now as amajor, and all the things that
I am learning whenever Itransition to go be a PM one day

(07:43):
.
I have touched every singlescope of that job and I've been
a subject matter expert.
That trained me to take thatnext rank and I think the same
was true when I was an infantryofficer.
Jrtc, I think was one of themost informative jobs that I had
before I took a company command.
But just being able to do somany different rotations and see

(08:06):
all these different companycommanders and field tactical
exercises and failing doing okayand then excelling, and then
just seeing what the standardlooked like of, hey, if you
wanna be a good companycommander, this is what it looks
like, and I don't think thecivilian world at least offers
that.
They just throw you in to aposition, they give you some

(08:26):
different types of education ortools, but you really don't get
practical experience of reps, atleast how you do in the
military.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
I think you know, if you look at the military, the
army and any military branch isdesigned specifically to create
the cogs in the wheel so thatthe machine still runs.
So whether it's you as an XOS 3or whether it's somebody else,

(09:07):
it doesn't matter who.
Somebody will fill the XOS3role.
Right, that position willcontinue to work and somebody
will have a framework ofknowledge of how it's supposed
to work, even conceptually, tobe able to help keep that
organization moving forward.
Civilian size is a little bitdifferent, so people are
recruited based on the skillsets that they already have, not
the skill sets that they needto develop into that role.
And so you know you might have.
You might be looking forsomebody who's a network

(09:29):
administrator.
Well, you're not going to hiresomebody who has no knowledge
about that or is coming out ofjust college to be the senior
network administrator for thatorganization.
That doesn't work like that,not in the civilian world where
you're expected.
You know there is on the jobtraining a little bit.
I mean there's always going tobe a nuance to learn how a
different organization orcompany operates in the civilian

(09:53):
sector, because you got tolearn the people, you got to
learn their informal systems asmuch as their formal systems.
You have to learn.
You know how do they dobusiness, how does the company
make money.
The army doesn't have to worryabout that and when you're on
the civilian side, you knowyou're in much more of an
indirect leadership role than adirect leadership role that

(10:14):
you'll ever be in, and so youknow a lot of what I did prior
to getting out.
I read a book called InfluenceWithout Authority, because it's
one of the books that I thinkhelped set me up to understand
that it's not the same.
You might have a manager, butthat manager might not have the
theoretical power that you wouldexpect a battalion commander or

(10:37):
company commander or anybodyelse to have to be able to do
anything about things yeah, Ithink I think you're spot on man
and having that kind ofperspective of where you've
lived in both sides I think ispretty powerful.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
And me being in acquisitions now I read that
book when I transitioned out ofthe infantry into acquisitions
and my first job they stuck aninfantryman in AMSA, so Aviation
, mission Systems Architectureand PO Aviation and I had a team
of civilians you know master'sdegrees and very different forms

(11:11):
of discipline and engineering,all these people who've retired
as sergeant majors, and I reallydidn't have any direct
authority over them, nosupervisor authority, I didn't
rate them any of those.
So how would I inspire thoseindividuals to actually
accomplish things?
And that book was prettyinstrumental in me kind of
retraining my brain of like, howdo I influence people when I

(11:32):
don't directly have authority ora supervisor role over them?
And that kind of put me out ofmy comfort zone because I was
used to being like a companycommander.
Okay, well, I'm the commander,so this is what we need to do in
order to be successful and havethat type of framework and then
mentor my junior platoonleaders and all those different
things.
It was a different type of role.

(11:52):
But taking it back to yourjourney, enlisted 2000 to 2009
before you commissioned, Icommissioned in 2006.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Commission in 2006.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
2006.
What were some of the obstaclesthat you kind of worked through
, first joining the Army as anenlisted officer, and then what
drove you to resign yourenlistment and actually go
commission as an officer?

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Well, you know.
So if you look at what theoperational environment was, I
guess, to use militaryterminology back in 2006, the
Army was hurting for officers,right, and the years prior to
that, in 2004 and 2005, becauseof the surge, they were actually
doing a ton of directcommissions.
Ocs was rolling, they werelooking for some really specific
branches and so and they wereoffering programs like degree

(12:46):
completion, where if you didn'tcompletely have your college
degree, the army would give youa year to complete it after you
commissioned.
So that's really the programthat I took and so you know I
could have gone MI.
But back then there was not theoption to do OMLs or merit lists
where you get to choose andthey have like these draft
nights now at OCS.
It was kind of just the basic,like you get what you get put

(13:11):
down, what you think you mightwant to do, and the army is
going to select for you.
And so I went from MI toquarter master and honestly it
was the best thing that happenedto me.
And you know that transition,you know leaving the MI world,
which is, you know, veryesoteric, very much about.
Let's make the biggest wildguess that we possibly can off
of the information that we thinkwe know to.

(13:35):
Here's beans, bullets, beds,and it's a very fixed commodity
of water and fuel andmaintenance parts.
That fit my personality muchbetter, and so it really was a
natural fit for me to move overinto the logistical world.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
And when you did make that push, becoming an officer,
did you have any kind of majorhurdles that you had to work
through?
At least from like leadingpeople and being in a role?
But I'm assuming because youwere prior enlisted, it was just
a natural fit of where you knewhow you would fit into the
organization as a leader.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Well, I think in any organization, I think anytime
you enter, it doesn't matter theorganization you can do
military, you can do civiliancompanies.
I think it's all the same, inthat you can walk in with
whatever position or rank onyour chest that you want.
But until you understand theenvironment that you're in, it's
not as easy to just be like, dothis, and you know I mean

(14:30):
obviously you know the Armygrooms people to be able to do
that.
But you're not required to dothat as a second lieutenant.
You might be required to do itas a lieutenant colonel, a
colonel or a major general incharge of a division, but by
then you've got 20 to 35 yearsof experience behind you to be
able to start to know what to doday one.

(14:51):
But as a second Lieutenant youhave no clue and so it's really
shut up in color until youunderstand what you need to do
and then you can start.
It's like the inverse dynamic,right.
You start off not saying athing thing and then by the end
of the time that you're in there, you know what you're talking
about, so you can talk aboutthings pretty intelligently.
And then the army just says no,go to this other job.

(15:12):
But then you reverse thetriangle and you just keep going
.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
That's all that happens that's exactly, uh, how
I feel like I'm in groundhog day, so I work kind of technical
surveillance job right now interms of programmatics.
In three weeks I'm going totake over robotics, so now I
have to learn all of these newwidgets and systems.
And it's been like that for thelast 16 years.

(15:37):
You get proficient in a job.
As soon as you get to thatpoint of where you feel
comfortable, the Army decides tostretch your capabilities and
then take over another position,and it just constantly keeps
going.
So as an officer, you completeyour time as a lieutenant and
then you transition to be acompany grade.
Did you do your command as arecruiting company commander?

Speaker 1 (16:01):
No, so I did two commands.
My first command was the 2ndCavalry Regiment.
I was the HHT commander for theRegimental Support Squadron for
2nd Cav and then when wedeployed, they reconfigured my
company as a forward supportcompany instead of just a
standard headquarters troopbecause of the mission set that
we had.
So I had a maintenance andmedical platoon underneath me

(16:21):
and so that was an interestingexperience because I got a I
essentially got a forwardsupport company experience with
a squadron staff attached to meinstead of just being a standard
, you know, headquarters companycommand, and that was unique.
And then I left that.
I actually came out of theater.
We spent nine months in theater, I came out.

(16:42):
I left a month.
Nine months in theater, I cameout.
I left.
A month later changed commandand then three days after I
changed command from second calf, I took command of the
Lynchburg Recruiting Companyhere in Virginia.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
So you're in Virginia right now.
Locally, I am.
Yeah, I wish I would have knownthat we could have done this
live.
So I'm stationed in FortBelvoir right now in Virginia.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Oh yeah, I'm down here in Charlottesville.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah, so not that far away.
That's a small world man.
So transitioning fromoperational army into the
recruitment company command,what was that like?
Having to kind of change andnow chase quotas and try to gain
recruit numbers?
What was that like switchingjobs?

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Well, I mean, I really didn't think it was that
big of a deal.
I thought the volume got turnedway down.
I mean, I know that a lot ofpeople will move into the
recruiting world and think thatthe volume gets turned way up.
But I mean, I came from combat,I mean, and I had, you know, my
, my first four years as acompany or as a, as a uh, my
first four years as an armyofficer five, five years as the

(17:46):
army officer, two of them werespent in theater.
So, you know, I, I was, you know, coming out of the volume being
turned way up.
And then, when I moved into therecruiting world, it wasn't so
much about chasing numbers as arecruiting company commander,
you know, yeah, you'reresponsible for the mission, but
your recruiters are the onesthat do all the work.
So really, it comes back towhat I said at the beginning,

(18:07):
which is how do you resource andenable your recruiters to be
successful with the tools andeverything to do the end state
and the desired state so thatthey're successful and they know
what they're supposed to bedoing and then they execute?

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah, I like how it comes full circle.
So working in the Army now Ithink one of the toughest jobs
that someone could have isrecruiting, because recruiting
is struggling just from aperspective, specifically with
the Army, I think we have theworst numbers across DOD.
Don't hold me to that, but wedid last year.

(18:42):
I'd love to hear kind of likeyour thoughts on why the army is
struggling to recruit andretain talent well without
opening a huge can of worms.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
I think that the number one issue is the way that
they've chosen to go aboutmedical processing.
I think that's really hinderedthe army, so I I'm going to
leave that one alone.
Anybody wants to learn aboutGenesis and MH Genesis?
Then they can do any of theother research.
The other issue, I think, justcomes down to the recruiting

(19:15):
mindset, at least when I was in.
So it's been 10 years, I'mcertain recruiting has developed
at least a little bit since Ileft recruiting in 2017.
So what?
Seven years, not 10.
And the mindset has always beenrecruiters, if nothing else,
make phone calls, and phonecalls at this point I don't
think work.

(19:35):
And so what you're doing isyou're asking mostly you're
asking an infantry soldier or afield artillery or anybody who's
never really been, who's been,who's had to re-interact with
the public in the way that they,that they were used to prior to
the army, to then go back outand interact with the public in
a way that puts the army in thebest light and then finds people

(19:58):
that are ultimately qualifiedto join the army and that's
super hard.
Qualified to join the Army, andthat's super hard.
It was hard in 2014 to 2017,when I was a company commander
for Lynchburg Recruiting Company, and it's hard right now in
2024.
There's no difference in howhard it was, I think, when you
overlay some of the constraintsthat the Army and the military
has chosen to do about therecruiting process.

(20:21):
They've made it a little bitmore challenging for themselves,
without expanding roles orexpanding or leveraging
technology in better ways, andI'll leave it at that.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, so I know that the Go Army.
They had an interesting modelnow of like really highlighting
soldier stories, so where Idon't know if you follow them on
social media or not, but Ireally liked that idea of being
able to highlight a soldier'sjourney, so depending on what
their MOS is doesn't matter whattheir rank is and just kind of
like a day in life of of whatthat soldier does, at least from

(20:57):
like a technical perspective,of like what their actual MOS is
.
So I agree with you from thestandpoint that they really have
to leverage technology.
But I was interested in whatyour perspective was being a
recruiting company commander butnow transition to the end of
your career.
So what drove you?
You know, after 21 years, yourmajor.

(21:19):
I don't know if you were in theS3 role or an XO role, but what
decided was the deciding factorfor you to get out of the army
and transition to civilian life.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Well, I there's two things.
Number one I looked at the nextsix years of my career and I
realized that I did not want tomove four more times and I said
I'm not doing that.
And the other reason was, youknow, I had promised my wife
that I would get to 20.
We would look at what we needwhere we were and I realized

(21:53):
that I wanted to focus more onmy family than focus on the Army
.
And you know, many of myfriends have moved on.
I think a couple of my friendswho were in my peer group are
now all CSL select for battalioncommand.
So I would have been in the sameboat, but I don't regret any of
it.
I mean, I think I did my time.
I served my country well and Iserved.
You know, the Army was greatbut it was time and you know,

(22:16):
trust me, you know when it'stime.
Everybody knows when it's timeto leave the Army.
Everybody knows when it's timeto leave the Army.
And you know some people willhold on and wait for the Army to
say, no, you have to go.
But everybody knows when it'stime to go.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, I think that that is such an interesting
perspective, like for you and Ibeing in an organization for
over 20 years, and then you justknow when it's time to
transition out and you have tomake that leap and I think we've
gotten better but we'll kind oftransition to this next and
what systems helped you.
But, like, as a civilian,turnover rate is so high within
organizations, I think that thisaverage time when one of the

(22:56):
Gallup polls is staying withinan organization now is like two
to three years and then youtransition to get another job.
I think it's interesting fromthat perspective is that you
know you're dedicated to yourcraft, working through the ranks
If you decide to actually stayand retire and now they changed
their model, by the way, so youdon't actually get a full

(23:16):
retirement at 20 years.
I don't really know what thatis because I've grandfathered in
, but in the military or in thecivilian side you transition
like every two to three yearsand it's easier to do.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Well.
So I will say this right, oneof the things that you so I had
a friend of mine that I met.
He's a really good friend ofmine.
I met him when I was in thecorporate world and his
perspective on this was veryinteresting.
He looked at it from thestandpoint of you know, if I had

(23:49):
stayed in till 30, I could havebeen a brigade commander.
Right, I walk out.
I walk out as a brigadecommander potentially, who knows
?
But just say, let's just say 30years, I made 06, right.
So whether I brigade command ornot, 06, I made my terminal
rank.
He had the phrase, from hisperspective, that and a CEO told

(24:10):
him I don't hire 52 year olds.
So you know, there comes a timewhen you have to make a
decision on what you want to do.
Can you go to 52 or 55 yearsold and then say I'm never going
to work another day in my life?
I'm going to live off armypension, my TSP, whatever other
investments I've ever done.
That's what I'm going to do.

(24:31):
I'm going to sunset my careerand I'll never work another day
in 55.
And then for the next 25 to 30years, I'm just going to mow my
lawn.
Is that going to be satisfyingto you and to some people that
may be satisfying to me, itwasn't.
I wanted to do something else.
I was 42 years old when I leftthe military and I was like,

(24:54):
well, I'm kind of in that middleage market where I'm not too
old that I can't start anothercareer, but I'm old enough that
I know what I'm talking aboutwhen it comes to certain things
inside organizations, and theone thing I will say is you know
, don't look at job turnover onthe civilian side as has
anything to do with loyalty oror like fealty to an

(25:17):
organization.
They are completely differentand you almost have to forget
about the military.
They are completely differentand you almost have to forget
about the military, aboutanything you did in the military
and how that works, becauseeffectively, you're a free agent
.
The moment you walk out, youare.
You know, the military teachesyou to put others before
yourself.
Right, that's like no, that'slike numero uno of the value

(25:41):
that the army wants you tounderstand.
So you get that drilled intoyou for pick the time period
that you're in the army and thenyou walk out and now it's well,
the army's not there anymore.
So who are you going to takecare of Now.
It's numero uno and you have toinvert it and pay attention to
what you want.
So if you're in a career, ifyou're in a company for two
years and another opportunityopens up and you like that and

(26:03):
it pays more or it gives youbetter benefits, there is no
harm, no foul in walking awayfrom what you're currently doing
to go do that.
It's expected, so it's fine.
Just know that.
You don't have to just slug itout with a corporation for the
next 20 years.
If it's not what you want to do, go do something else or do
nothing at all.

(26:24):
Those are all options.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
I love that, how you just walk through that.
I think that that's probablyone of the realest feedback that
I've gotten from anyone who'stransitioned out of the military
.
So thank you for that.
And it kind of reminds me of astory of my buddy.
He was working with me in oneof my last jobs Great job.
He was a civilian working as acontractor within a PEO.

(26:49):
He just was genuinely unhappywith that job, but it was a
well-paying job From thatstandpoint six figures as a
contractor.
He decided to take a risk andgo take a job that had more
purpose.
So I think at the end of theday, you have to really align.
We call like head, heart, handalignment.
Are you aligned with whatyou're doing and do you have

(27:10):
purpose in it?
Because if you can have passionand purpose, I think that
that's what equals fulfillment.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
No.
The other part of it, though,is that everybody who leaves the
military is lockstepped into amindset that any job that they
take has to be a pay raise.
I'm moving from this job, I'mmoving from this career, I'm
moving from this rank to thisposition.
I'm moving from 03 to 04.
That's a pay raise.
I'm now in charge of a biggerorganization.

(27:38):
I'm moving from 04 to 05, 05 to06, whatever right, it all
comes with a step pay increase.
You leave the military.
That's not the case.
You could leave the job, youcould go to a career, and you
could be like well, this is adirector role, and it could pay
30% less than what you weremaking in the military, without
benefits, bonuses and all thatother stuff.

(27:59):
Or the flip side you could getout and make three times the
amount that you were making inthe military, but you're never
home.
So it all comes with thetrade-off, and what you have to
realize is that compensation isnot tied to your rank or your
position or whatever, and it'snot tied to happiness.

(28:20):
You have to determine whatmatters to you and then go from
there.
I would much rather take a 20%pay cut to work three miles down
the road than earn that other20% and not be home 26 weeks out
of the year.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, it all goes back to what do you want.
I love that.
So, transitioning out, whatdifferent programs did you use?
That kind of helped you withthat, because I have a lot of
veterans who listen to the showand I'd love to kind of get your
experience of when youtransitioned.
What kind of helped you.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
So I used everything.
I used everything under the sun.
So in 2020, at the height ofCOVID, right, it was a lot of
like whatever you could get.
So I actually fought my wayinto a SkillBridge program, I
think before Skillbridge kind ofbecame more mainstream and more
structured.
So I was able to find my ownSkillbridge and make it work
here in the Charlottesville area.
And then, if I found it, Iapplied for it.

(29:13):
American Corporate Partners, Idid the Commit Foundation, I did
Hiring Our Heroes, I did man,there's a ton.
I just can't remember them allat this point and I probably
went through like 30 differentresume reviews.
I went through a whole bunch ofdifferent programs.
The ones that mattered to meand the ones that made the most

(29:34):
difference were AmericanCorporate Partners, of which I
am now a mentor, and the CommitFoundation.
The Commit Foundation because,as a senior leader, the Commit
Foundation's purpose is not tohelp you transition to find a
job, although it does do that.
Its purpose is to help you findyou Because, remember, you were
somebody before you joined themilitary.
So who is that person and doyou even like them?

(29:55):
And then the second one wasAmerican Corporate Partners,
because, as you're transitioning, what they will do is they will
align you with a mentor in theindustry by which you think you
want to go into.
So if you want to be, you know,like the guy who I was, who I
was paired with was in aluminum.
He was a senior vice presidentfor aluminum manufacturing
because I wanted to go into themanufacturing world.

(30:18):
So he helped me get a job inthe manufacturing world and
helped me guide my careerthrough all of that.
Because if you're in themilitary, do you know what an
offer letter looks like?
Do you know what the benefitspackage looks like?
Do you know how to negotiateyour salary?
Do you know how to do all ofthe things that most people
who've never been in themilitary know how to do but you

(30:38):
don't because you've never doneit.
So all of these things you know, the mentors that exist are
there to help you and guide youthrough it.
And so you got to.
You got to use these programs.
I mean, can you do it alone?
100%, anybody can do anything.
Once is what I like to say.
And you know, and so and I am adata point of one I have one

(31:00):
experience doing this right,unless you've left the military,
done your bit, came back in themilitary and then done it again
.
Then you're down a point.
Then you have two experiences,but most everybody only has one.
So use the leverage resourcesthat you can.
That's all.
I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
Yeah, so there's an absolute ton of resources out
there.
Now I think SkillBridge is.
The number of SkillBridgeprograms that are out there are
insane.
And being in the acquisitionside now I see a lot more
opportunities to Skillbridge andI did not know that you could
choose the Skillbridge based onthe geographic location that you
wanted to actually go andretire or try to find a job,

(31:42):
like now.
That's kind of the some of thestructures and like Oak Ridge
national labs or different typesof national labs.
There's so many differentprograms and skill bridges out
there that kind of helptransitions, service members and
it's only growing every singleday.
So when you went through well,that's what I do.
What do you do now?

Speaker 1 (32:03):
So aerial resupply coffee is a skill bridge partner
.
Oh, you beat what I do.
What do you do now?
So Aerial Resupply Coffee is aSkillbridge partner.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
Oh, you beat me too, because that's what I was going
to ask next.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, yeah, so that's what I do.
So, like I said, I'm a mentorin American Corporate Partners
so I can get a line to anybodywho signs up and wants to find a
mentor.
That's what I do, right,because I give back in the way
that helped me and I want tohelp other people.
So I tried, you know, I takephone calls and try to help as
much as I can, and then you know.

(32:31):
But but conversely, I also workwith Hiring Our Heroes, which
has the Skillbridge cohortprogram as well as military
spouses as well as all sorts ofother things in there beyond
just active service.
Because, again, the militaryspouses are really a component
that nobody talks about buteverybody like wants to help,
but then nobody ever really likeputs the effort towards doing

(32:53):
it, and so now they're startingto do it a little bit more.
So I've brought on militaryspouses for ARC as well as
service members in Skillbridgeroles, and I'll keep doing it
because, quite honestly, I wantpeople to understand what the
corporate world is like, andwhile I personally may not be
able to hire anybody in the waythat people might want, or it

(33:14):
might not be a good fit, atleast Skillbridge gives you time
to decompress from the military, which is a requirement and
allows you to network andcontinue to learn about how the
corporate world functions beforeyou have to go do it yourself.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
I also love that you focus on military spouses,
because I genuinely believe thisthat military spouses are one.
They're like the NCOs, they'rethe backbone of the family.
I could not do what I do if itwas not for my wife.
Hands down, she is a phenomenallady.
But number two the untappedresource potential within

(33:51):
military spouses.
They're so highly educated.
My wife is a registered nurse.
She hasn't worked for a coupleof years since COVID hit because
our son has asthma.
But some of the qualificationsand certifications that service
members' spouses have is justabsolutely inspiring and it's
across the board.
Like I remember having allthese different soldiers in my

(34:14):
organization and what theirwives were doing and some of the
skills that they had, and viceversa too.
So that is genius and I lovehow you offer that program and
you're trying to give back tothe veteran community.
But I would love to hear whatsparked you to create Aerial

(34:34):
Resupply Coffee and where didthat name come from?

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Okay.
So ARC started really as abyproduct of a couple of reasons
.
Number one, as I wastransitioning out of the army
and taking interviews and doinginformational interviews and
networking and meeting peopleand everything else, trying to
find a job.
The central theme was it wasalways over coffee, so I was

(35:01):
like, okay, coffee is here,right.
The second reason had to dowith the fact that you know, if
I, like, I'm not a big drinkerand unfortunately or fortunately
, depending on your perspectiveof it the culture of the
military involves a lot ofalcohol and I didn't want to do
anything with alcohol, right, Ijust didn't want to.

(35:21):
That wasn't something I wantedto do.
And then, third, I heard an ad,and I saw an ad for a
competitor, which I'm sureanybody can figure out which one
it is, and I realized veryquickly that there wasn't
anything that spoke to thecombat service support side of
the military.
It was all soft-based, right.
And so I'm like, well, whydoesn't it?

(35:42):
And so I looked in our researchand I was like, well, if it
doesn't exist, I can make itexist.
So ARC the name came from thefact that when I was in 2nd
Cavalry Regiment and when I wasin 1st Brigade 4th Infantry
Division, when we were both inAfghanistan, we did a lot of
sling load missions that had todo with aerial delivery, and
while aerial delivery by itselfis an Air Force function, it's

(36:05):
not an Army function.
The Army is going to find a wayto do whatever it wants to do,
regardless of what the Air Forceis supposed to do.
And so that's what we did.
And you know, I had a chance tokick a couple pallets out the
back of an aircraft, which waskind of cool.
And so you know I decided, hey,I'm just going to lean heavily
on the logistics side and leanon the aerial delivery side and
create it ARC.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
So, going through that and I think you did a
genius.
Something you just said is that, hey, everything your
competitor all focused on likethe soft community, but there is
no one that is filling thisvoid, so here's a problem set
that I can go out and activelyfill, and the culture of coffee.

(36:46):
So for me at least, being anofficer, I remember drinking so
much coffee especially doinglike field training exercises is
I would just fill Nalgenebottles over and over and over
and it was like instant coffee.
I remember you probably takeyour jet boil out I don't know
if this is before your time ornot, but we'd have jet boil.
We'd make our little cowboycoffee.
So coffee is something that Icorrelate directly to the army,

(37:10):
because everything that I'veever done, I've always had
coffee, even during deployments,something that I've done.
But what was the struggles ofyou having to create a brand
from scratch and how did youwork through that?

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Well, I didn't really struggle Like that's the thing,
like all of this.
So well, first, about coffee.
I didn't do jet boil coffee inthe Army.
I didn't actually startdrinking coffee until about
halfway through my Army career,and the only reason I did it is
because I was a battle captainfor 2nd Cavalry Regiment and all
of a sudden, it was or not 2ndCav.

(37:44):
It was no, no, it was 2nd Cav.
I was about.
No, no, I was in 1st Brigade,4id.
We were, we were in Afghanistanand I was working 20 hours a
day and I could not sustainmyself and I hated coffee.
But I was like, well, it's theonly thing here, and at the time
, and even now, you know, dlawill issue coffee in bags and

(38:06):
it's all Maxwell House coffee,and so it's like if you're used
to drinking it, you're used todrinking Maxwell House, right,
well, I don't like Maxwell Housecoffee, but I drank it because
it's what was there.
And so when I started ARC, youknow I mean every, every
challenge that I ever, you know.
I guess it's not fair for me tosay that there weren't
challenges.
I think what I did was I justlooked at it as knocking the

(38:30):
domino down.
Right, there's one more dominoin front of you.
So how do you createirreversible momentum?
By knocking down small bits ata time.
How do I create an LLC?
I have no idea.
I go to YouTube.
How do I create a brand?
I have no idea.
I go to YouTube.
How do I create a brand?
I have no idea.
I go to YouTube.
How do I start roasting coffee?
I have no idea.
I go to YouTube.
Where do I find the equipment?
I have no idea.

(38:51):
I go find a local supplier andtalk to them.
How do I get green coffee?
I hunt down and do my researchon the internet.
How do I do marketing labeling?
Build a website, SEO emailstuff you name it right.
Building, build a website, seoemail stuff you name it right.
How do I do that?
There's a way, because I'm notthe first one to ever do it and
other people have done it beforeme.

(39:11):
So where do I go to get thatinformation?
I go to YouTube, tiktok,instagram, because plenty of
other people have done it.
So how do I then take it andapply it to what I want to do?
And that's what I did andthat's how ARC, the brand, came
out of thin air.
I then take it and apply it towhat I want to do.
And that's what I did andthat's how ARC, the brand, came
out of thin air.
I mean, really it was.
You know, I said to myself oneday.
I looked at my wife and saidI'm going to start a company.

(39:33):
And she's like are you crazy?
And I said, no, this is what Iwant to do.
And she's like okay.
And 30 days later, arc had awebsite and was selling coffee.
I didn't tell anybody, I didn'tpre-sale, I didn't do any
marketing.
The only people who knew was mywife and my mom, and that was
it.
And my mom was my firstcustomer and I just kind of lit

(39:55):
it up and told everybody what Iwas doing.
And people are like huh, likewhere did that come from?
And then, ever since then, I'vebeen bootstrapping this the
whole way.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
So you've made some amazing achievements and I've
been kind of following you tooon LinkedIn.
Like recently, your copy soldon Amazon but also it's in
Kroger's now.
I don't think is it on base inthe commissaries yet.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
No, that's a hard nut to crack, so if anybody who's
listening to this wants to helpme do that, I would be very
thankful for that.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
So one of my guests that I had on robert irvine,
like his fit crunch bars, whichI absolutely love, his fit
crunch bars I don't know if itwould be a good point of contact
, but I could at least put youin contact to see if maybe that
could help.
Um, but yeah sure why is thatsuch a hard nut to crack?

Speaker 1 (40:43):
I'm curious well, it's because it's the way that
again.
So you have to understand howdo companies do business right,
how do companies buy things?
I mean, this is so like you'rein the acquisition side, right.
My background is in procurementand acquisition management
beyond the army, from thecivilian side, so like it's

(41:04):
understanding how the supplychain works, from everything
that has to do post-marketing inthe front end of the business
to all the way downstream towhere you're getting raw
supplies, and so for me that'sthe easy part.
I was able to do everythingbesides marketing and sales
because I knew how to do it andif you.
But you got to understand thatother businesses do the same

(41:25):
thing right.
So the commissary has a way ofdoing business where it sources
all of the products that you seethere, and it's really two ways
.
I mean many people can go in andput a bunch of comment cards in
the commissary and say I wantthis brand, I want this brand, I
want this brand, and thencommissary managers can do it.
But if you're doing large scale,then you go into planograms,

(41:48):
you go into the way that thecommissary wants to buy things,
what it wants to present, whatbrands it wants to present, how
it wants to distribute and then,ultimately, do you have the
capacity to meet any of that?
I can roast 400 pounds ofcoffee a month and the
commissary is going to go thanks, that's not good enough.
And because we're not going tobuy 400 pounds, we're going to

(42:09):
buy 400 pallets.
So can you produce 400 palletsand that's?
And do you have the nationalreach and do you have enough
interest and sales generated sothat we're not buying coffee
that's just going to sit on theshelf Because they're going to
buy it?
It's not commission-based.
So that's where you just haveto understand how do people do

(42:32):
business, and so that's why thecommissary and APHIS, which are
two separate entities, dobusiness.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, I had General Thurgood, keith Thurgood, do
business.
Yeah, I had a general Thurgood,keith Thurgood.
He was the CEO of Apey's nottoo long ago and just picking
his brain, but that sounds likethat's an aspiring goal to
achieve, man.
If you can get in thecommissary, at least from my
eyes, you've made it.
If you can sell any of yourproducts in any store,
especially Kroger's, in my mindyou've made it.

(43:04):
And it's inspiring that you'vebootstrapped this from like the
entire way.
And it's also inspiring thatyou really haven't ran into any
major hurdles.
You just use thatentrepreneurial spirit and, I
think, just knocking down eachtarget, one target at a time,
one target at a time, and nowyou gain momentum.
And now that you have momentum,it's much easier for you to

(43:26):
work through hard obstacles whenthey are encountered.
Have you started growing yourcompany at all?
Uh, in terms of just like thenumber of people, or are you
still doing like most of thework?

Speaker 1 (43:39):
well, I'm still doing a lot of the work.
Um, I do have a full-timeemployee that is in my sales and
business development role.
And then I just recently Ithink I haven't confirmed yet
because I don't think the offerhas been accepted but I'm hiring
a part-time person to help mein the manufacturing space, only
because I can't do all of theoperational stuff and sales and
marketing and videos and all thethings that I do.

(44:01):
I mean, something's got to give.
So I got to buy some of my timeback and I need people.
I want people to grow with me.
So that's the goal.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, I think that's the next step, brother.
Like just kind of hearing youis like now what can you take
off your plate and then hireother people and then now you're
back in that leadership role ofmaintaining like a resilient
culture and developing theculture within your business
that you want.
Uh, that that's.
That's really cool.
So, transitioning to yoursocial media, so you are

(44:34):
absolutely killing it, I think,on linkedin.
Every time I go there I see thehammer providing some wisdom.
So where?
Where did that come from?

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I mean pick, pick an 06 at any level that you've ever
been and you know exactly whothe hammer is dude, it's spot
one and I love it yeah, trust me, I mean not everybody's like
that, but the stereotype isthere and, honestly, like I've
run into a few people, even atthe 05 level, who inspired the
hammer, and so it's very clearthat I mean I knew what I was

(45:09):
doing when I, when I built it.
My wife hates the character butshe let me phrase it she
doesn't hate what the hammersays, she hates the way it looks
because of the filter.
So I mean it is what it is, Idon't care, I think it's funny
and honestly, I like make youknow what's interesting is.
You know there's.
So I follow a lot of differentcreators.
I have a lot of friends in thecreator space, people who I mean

(45:29):
they're not like close friendsbut people who have really
resonated with, like MandatoryFun Day, you know Austin.
Like Habitual Line Crosser Ethan, you know Tyler's Buttersworth,
like these people who are allin the space that are doing it,
that are doing it.
And one of the things that Ilike about what and what they do

(45:50):
and what and what many otherpeople do is they focus on
making fun of the military atthe company and below level, but
almost nobody makes fun ofsenior leaders and they're not
immune to being made fun of, butnobody wants to do it because
usually they're in the militaryand so they don't want to get,
you know, they don't want to getslapped because they made fun
of, you know, the army chief ofstaff or whatever.

(46:11):
And so, like I'm just going tomock it from my perspective,
because some of these people arestraight characters and it's
interesting because, havingtransitioned out of the military
, I know exactly what they'regoing to be like the moment they
walk out and the only jobs thatare available to them are EY,
deloitte and McKenzie, becausethey're the only ones that are

(46:33):
pulling those people forwardthat will put up with those
personalities.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yeah, 100% man.
The first time I saw that Ithought it was absolutely
hilarious, and then I juststarted thinking of all the
different 06s at least when Iwas in the infantry that that
hit the bill on, and it goesback to the same concept of how
you started the coffee company,Like, hey, if no one is doing
this, I should do it, andthey're not immune to it, which

(47:01):
I love.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Yeah, and I mean the hammer is funny on LinkedIn.
Unfortunately, that's you.
You know it doesn't translatewell and if you aren't, if you
haven't been brought into it, itdoes kind of shock you a little
bit because you're not reallysure what you're looking at.
So you know, but again, it's it, you know, because I'm
marketing all this myself andI'm doing the term is called
guerrilla marketing right, I'mvery much trying to market this

(47:26):
in a way that I know how,because I don't have the
resources or the money to spendon, like you know, a refined
national or even local marketingcampaign that's really going to
drive, you know, the businessforward.
So I'm using the technology andthe resources that I have,

(47:47):
which is video, social media,the stuff that I'm doing to
build the business and to getthe name out there, which is
important to me.
If people understand ARC andthey see a Hammer video and
they're like man, that guy's anidiot, but they still know that
it's the Hammer and they stillknow that it's Aerial Resupply
Coffee, at least now they knowthe brand.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Yeah, I think you're genius and you're resonating to
a portion of at least theveteran community as well, so I
think I think it's a geniusmodel, at least using the
marketing and the tools that youhave currently, right now, so,
kind of looking forward, whatare some of the future projects
that you're wanting to worktowards?

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Well, with ARC, I mean, you know it's really about
expansion and growth.
You know my target this year,you know I've always I've given
myself a five year plan to hiteight figures.
So that's the goal and anannual revenue so let's go Right
.
And so, like my, you know, andso I am looking at continuing to

(48:48):
expand into Kroger.
I'm actually I'm here locallyin the three stores in
Charlottesville, but I'mauthorized to be in 33 across
the Mid-Atlantic region once thesales numbers start picking up
and we start seeing how it'sdoing.
I have two major sportspartnerships, one with Virginia
Tech, virginia and theUniversity of Virginia.
So I'm looking at that.
I'm also looking at continuingto find distributors or other

(49:10):
retail outlets that areinterested in carrying ARC.
But again, it's all aboutbuilding the base, and so
manufacturing is important to me, and so building the model here
, having my first roastery, mybrick and mortar, that is not
only a retail outlet but is alsomy distribution hub right, is

(49:33):
the way forward.
So, between that, growing Amazonand really continuing to push
ARC into the consciousness ofeverybody is kind of my goal, at
least in the near term.
Long term, you know, I think Iprobably have this like pie in
the sky idea that I want to takeon the VFW and the American
Legion, because I don't feellike they're two organizations
that are really cateringthemselves to the current
generation and aren't reallysetting themselves up for future

(49:55):
generations.
And so, you know, what I wantto do is kind of build,
potentially, places where youknow that's if they want to come
in, in and they want to feellike they're part of something
that doesn't revolve aroundalcohol, then maybe that's what
that is and we'll see what thatlooks like.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
That's a powerful thought man.
I think that definitelyresonates.
I look forward to seeing howthat kind of shapes out in your
mind.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
It's time for our final show segment that I like
to call the killer bees.
These are the same fourquestions that I ask every guest
on the Tales of Leadershippodcast Be brief, be brilliant,
be present and be gone.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Question one what do you believe separates a good
leader from a great leader?

Speaker 1 (50:41):
I think good leaders are only able to move an
organization to the next step.
Great leaders are the ones thatcan inspire people to go to a
vision beyond what anybody washoping to achieve.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Yep, spot on, brother .
So question two what is oneresource that you could
recommend to our listeners tohelp them on their journey?

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Like leadership journey or just any journey.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Well, I think leadership and I'll preface this
is I think leadership and lifego hand in hand, because you
have to learn to lead yourselfbefore you can lead anyone else.
So dual hat, it could be eitherone.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Well, I mean, I think you know, at least in the
military, I think you knowreading.
Obviously, if you like to reador audio books can help you.
I think the one resource that Iwill say that especially and
I'm going to tailor this to theentrepreneurial world because I
think that it helps peopleunderstand as an entrepreneur,
you're doing it by yourself allthe time anyway.

(51:46):
So if you ever read or anythingabout Gary Vaynerchuk, the guy
has a very unique perspective onhow to be an entrepreneur in
this time period and this spacein the social media realm, and
understanding his perspective ofit has helped me lead myself

(52:07):
and helped me understand howbest to tackle all of this.
I guess the best way to say it.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Yeah, no, that's great brother.
I don't think we necessarilyget that kind of perspective all
the time.
That's why I love havingdifferent people on who have
different backgrounds and whereyou've been this entrepreneur, I
think that's a great resource.
So question three if you couldgo back in time and give your
younger self a piece of advice,what would it be?

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Slow down.
I think that there's alwaysthis rush to always do the next
thing and to try to make ithappen as fast as possible,
rushing through rank, rushingthrough positions, rushing
through everything else, insteadof understanding what the
moment actually is and thendeveloping yourself.

(52:55):
In that moment, like I think,many people, just breeze by
something and they're like, well, that job sucked, I'm glad I'm
out of it, when they could havelike learned a lot about
themselves, not forget the tasks.
But look, work will come and go, people will hate the work and
everybody hates the work.
Right, it never.
Nobody wants to build con opsand be the AS3 or the assistant

(53:17):
to the assistant to theassistant S4.
Nobody wants to do that andthat work sucks.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
But what did you learn about yourself in that
role is really what matters vicebrother and I think I could
definitely use that right nowwith the current job that I'm in
.
So last question how can ourlisteners find you and how can
they add value to you?

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Well, I mean, if you look for aerial resupply coffee
on Google or social media,you're going to find me right.
You can find me on my website,which is aerial resupply
coffeecom, and if you're in theVirginia area, come by the store
in Charlottesville.
I'm on Google Maps, it's prettyeasy to find.
But in terms of adding value,like look, I just say this ARC
is all about support I'm takingand I very much have a support
forward mentality.

(54:03):
So like, just if you'reinterested in what I'm doing,
share it with a friend, sharewhat I do with other people, and
you know come on down.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
We'll have a cup of coffee, Michael.
It's been a pleasure of havingyou on the show again.
Dude, Thank you so much forbeing patient getting this time
to actually work out, and I hopeyou have a great evening, bro.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Hey, thanks for having me, man.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
All right team.
It's time for our after actionreview.
Great episode with Michael.
So my top three takeaways thisone's interesting.
So the first one that I took wasinfluence without authority
when I was transitioning throughmy career in the military,
especially leaving the infantry,being an HHC company commander

(54:55):
and then transitioning intoacquisitions.
The farther I get down thisrabbit hole, the more I need to
lead other people when I don'thave direct authority and
influence.
And that is hard to do and it'sa skill that you need to learn.
But at the end of the day, itall comes down to really one
thing just being genuinelyauthentic and having a positive

(55:17):
attitude and a positive mindset.
If you can do those things, youshow up authentic and you're
always positive and you havecharisma you will do well in
leading other people.
But that's something that isdefinitely a key takeaway that
Michael laid out clearly,especially in the civilian world

(55:38):
.
In the military it's easybecause the way the structure is
established within the military, it's much harder to lead other
people when you don't have thatlevel of influence.
So when I was an HHC companycommander, I think that's a
really good example, because Ihad all these different staff
sections that I had to lead andget to do things.
But I had to get them to dothings because it was for the

(56:02):
common good of the team and Ididn't really have any authority
over them to make them do it.
The second key takeaway that Ihave is being able to adapt.
I think Michael has aphenomenal story from the sense
that he's had several differenttransitions.
So he joined the army I love itthat he joined the army because

(56:22):
he needed some motivation inhis fourth degree of contact and
then he transitioned from beingenlisted to officer and then
transitioned from officer out ofthe military into the civilian
workforce and then transitionedfrom the workforce into what
he's doing right now anentrepreneur and that takes a

(56:43):
level of resilience or grit thata lot of people don't have.
But it goes back to the sameconcept of leadership right,
that it is a journey, life is ajourney.
We have to constantly be ableto reinvent ourself, and what I
mean by reinvent ourself isadapt to the situation that we
have at hand.

(57:04):
And the last key takeaway that Ihave is focus on yourself.
Sometimes you have to make harddecisions, but at the core of
that and Michael laid it outbeautifully was there's a
trade-off when that harddecision is made, are you going

(57:24):
to be okay with the consequences, for example, me being in the
military?
What is the right time for meto get out of the military?
I'm not there yet.
Will I know?
Most likely I will, but thetrade-off will be do I want to
spend more time with my familyand then, when I get out of the
military, do I want to chase ajob for title and money, or do I

(57:47):
want to spend more time with myfamily?
You need to focus on yourself,and what I mean by focusing on
yourself it's also a familycalculus.
You have to do the right thing,not just for yourself, but also
your family.
All right, team, do me a favor.
If you like this podcast, youlike the content that I push out

(58:10):
, it would mean the world to meif you help me grow by sharing
this podcast Number one, me.
If you help me grow by sharingthis podcast number one.
Number two go rate this podcastand leave a review on whatever
listening platform that youprefer to listen to tells the
leadership.
And number three, you can gofollow me on social media or you
can go tomcmillianleadershipcoachingcom
and you can read all theadditional leadership resources
that I provide to you 100% forfree, because I want you to be

(58:34):
armed and equipped in this worldto be the best leader that you
possibly can.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
As always, team, I'm your host, Josh McMillian,
saying every day is a gift.
Don't waste yours.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
I'll see you next time you.

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#107 Michael Klemmer - Brewing Success After Service

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#107 Michael Klemmer - Brewing Success After Service