#95 Morgan Sullivan - Leadership Lessons from the Battlefield to the Field

Morgan Sullivan is a father to four exceptional children and a husband to a wife he believes he doesn't deserve. Morgan grew up in a small town in southeastern Ohio, where his days were spent working on a farm and engaging in sports. He pursued higher education at Heidelberg College and earned a bachelor’s degree in psychology. On September 12th, 2002, Morgan joined the Army, dedicating over 20 years of service that led him to various states and countries. His military career exposed him to diverse experiences, allowing him to meet exceptional individuals and navigate exciting and challenging scenarios. Morgan has extended his leadership to coaching baseball, softball, boys’ and girls’ basketball, and football across developmental leagues to high school varsity levels. Currently, he serves as a high school athletic director, focusing on supporting the coaches and student-athletes at West Liberty-Salem High School.

Connect with Morgan Sullivan:
-Website: www.betteryouthcoaching.com
-LinkedIn: Coach Morgan Sullivan, CIC

🫡 My Why: I’ve seen the cost of poor leadership — how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in the worst cases, lead to lives lost, including through suicide. That’s why I’ve committed my life to helping others lead with purpose. Through Tales of Leadership, I share real stories and actionable insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader people remember for the right reasons.

👉🏽Leadership Resources: https://linktr.ee/talesofleadership

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the Tales of Leadership podcast.
This podcast is for leaders atany phase on their leadership
journey to become a morepurposeful and accountable
leader what I like to call a pal.
Join me on our journey togethertowards transformational
leadership.
All right team, welcome back tothe Tales of Leadership podcast

(00:22):
.
All right team, welcome back tothe Tales of Leadership podcast
.
I am your host, josh McMillian,an active duty army officer and
the founder of McMillianLeadership Coaching, and I am on
a mission to end toxicleadership and build a better
leader what I like to call apurposeful, accountable leader
or a pal and my vision is toimpact 1 million lives in the

(00:42):
next 10 years by sharingtransformational stories and
skills.
And in today's episode, I'msuper pumped.
I get to bring on a friend ofmine that I've known for a very
long time, morgan Sullivan.
He is a purposeful, accountableleader and have him share his
transformational story with you.
So Morgan is a father of fouramazing kids and he always says

(01:04):
this and a husband to a wife hedoes not deserve.
I'll tell you he is one of thebest men that I've ever known or
worked under.
He grew up in a small town inSoutheast Ohio, working on a
farm and playing sports.
Morgan attended Hyden DellCollege and earned a bachelor's
degree in psychology.
Then he shipped off to the army.
He joined the army because of9-11.

(01:33):
And this episode is recorded on9-11.
I'm telling you right now, godhas a plan for us all, and this
just.
I have goosebumps filming thisepisode because everything
happens for a reason and thiswas meant to be of having him on
at this time.
And since then he's retired,with over 20 years of service
which took him to many differentStates, many different
countries, multiple deployments,and now Morgan is now working

(01:55):
as a coach and he has coachedbaseball, softball basketball
and all the way up to footballvarsity league.
He's now a high school athleticdirector where he gets to serve
the coaches and studentathletes at west liberty salem
high school.
So welcome, morgan salvin, onwithout further ado.

(02:16):
Let's jump right into it,morgan.
Welcome to the tells theleadership podcast.
Brother, how you doing?

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I'm doing great man.
Thanks for having me.
It's going to be great to catchup with you and just talk shop
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
So we got a chance to kind of talk right before we
started the podcast episode.
But so everyone who's listeningMorgan probably knows a lot of
my dirty secrets, because wewere in the same battalion
together, especially while wewere deployed, and he had to
suffer through all of.
My second lieutenant isms likea brand new lieutenant in the

(02:50):
Army as the night battle captainand we'll probably get into one
of those funny stories.
But before we do, brother, justtake the time to kind of
introduce yourself to thelisteners.
Who is Morgan Sullivan?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, I'm a happily, luckily married man.
I've been married over 20 yearsnow to this wonderful woman
that I don't deserve.
You know she's blessed me withfour kids and you know the best
roles that I've got is husbandand father.
Sports nut, you know, everychance I get I'm playing
something, coaching something.
You know, just if I can watchsports, play sports, coach

(03:26):
sports, I love it.
I'm here to help.
Whatever I can do, I love tohelp people.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
My heart's out there for anybody who needs anything
in general, just in terms oflike leadership, is that you
served your country for over 20years in the army, both sides of
the hat as a non-commissionedofficer and as an officer and
then what do you do when you getout?
You continue to serve, but yougo into youth coaching and that

(03:55):
that is probably one of the mostthankless positions and we'll
get into that.
But I just want to say thankyou, man.
Like that continued service,not just to the nation but now
to your community and to theyouth base of where you're at
right now.
That's a huge commitment, sokudos to you.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I appreciate it .
It's really an honor to be in aposition that I can serve.
It's always good to see helpinghands and to be able to be a
part of that.
I've had so many people thathave really invested into my
life and if I can ever give back, that's that's what I want to
do.
So I feel like I wouldn't bethe man that I am if I didn't

(04:36):
have so many good people aroundme, and if I can be a part of
that for somebody else, you know, I feel like that's that's what
I'm here for.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, 100, know, I feel like that's what I'm here
for.
Yeah, 100 percent, man.
So before we really startdigging into your story, one of
the questions I always love,starting off with everyone, is
how do you define leadershipkind of in your terms, and how
has that changed or matured overthe years?

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, it has changed drastically over the years.
Earlier in my life I kind offelt like leader was the boss,
and very early in my army careerthat's what it was I was a team
leader, so do what I tell you,type of thing, and it's been a
journey.
I think leadership is a journeyand it's a fun ride for sure,

(05:22):
Continually growing, learningmore and developing that.
But I think the way I look atleadership just anybody that
needs it, just guiding themalong that's what it's all about
for me.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
I think I had just a little bitof a latency there.
But yeah, I think one of thehardest things in terms of
leadership when you're juststarting out is that level of
inexperience, and especially ata lower rank.
But as you continue to gothrough those ranks, it seems

(05:57):
that you get more authority.
And when you get more authority, you go one of two ways you
either become more of amicromanager and you want to
micromanage your team, whichwill only carry you so far, or
you learn the other side ofreally kind of unleashing your
team in terms of mission command, and that's the two routes that

(06:20):
we've always seen.
And that's really kind of thejourney that I'm on of trying to
show people that, hey, you canbe highly successful as a leader
, but still give that authorityaway.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, and that's one of the great things about
leadership is when you seesomebody that you worked with
develop into their ownleadership positions and seeing
them grow, and just knowing thatI had maybe just a little bit
of influence on that type ofleadership and that that young
person grow, that's you know.

(06:55):
That's what I love.
I love to see that, whetherit's a young athlete that you
know just learns how to throw abaseball, or somebody that is
very seasoned in theirleadership style, just learn
something new.
It's just really fun to watch.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
So let's start digging in into your leadership
story.
So, starting off at a youth,what were some of the lessons
that you learned from yourparents, your teachers, who were
your mentors before you joinedthe Army?

Speaker 2 (07:27):
There were so many, we could probably start with my
parents, since those are oftenthe most influential.
Whether that's a good thing orbad thing, they're often the
most influential.
My dad was a really, reallyhard worker.
He was always working hard todo something, whether it's
around the house on the property.
But he had a heart of gold alsoand he was out doing things for

(07:49):
other people all the time andseeing how he was very good at
directing and managing and hadfour or five people around him
on a construction site and tellhim where to go, what to do and
how to do it construction siteand you know, tell them where to
go, what to do and how to do it.
And that's one of the one ofthe lessons I learned was to be
able to pass those things alongand let them do their thing and

(08:13):
sometimes it's not always goingto be as successful as if you
told them everything, but it's alearning point for them.
And then seeing that growth andsee that project completed and
that's something I learned a lotfrom my dad.
My mom on the other side wasvery fun, jovial, just enjoyed

(08:34):
life and just had a good timeeverywhere, and to be able to
mesh those two things togetheris where I think that's my core
is really working hard, doing alot and trying to get a lot
accomplished, but enjoying theride as well, and it was fun
seeing those two dynamics worktogether and kind of grow from

(08:55):
within that.
And then on the coaching side, Ihad some really good coaches in
my younger years.
Dale Witt was a Pony PonyLeague seventh and eighth grade
baseball coach and he was verygood at just letting us do what
we thought we should do andseeing if it was a success or a

(09:17):
failure and let us learn on ourown.
He was a good coach.
He was very instructional butat the same time he really let
us learn on our own and that wasa huge blessing because I got
to grow a lot at that time.
And then high school footballcoach Jack James he was another
big time manager did a lot ofgreat things with the team and

(09:40):
he was a good motivator and thatwas really cool to see too.
That was something that was alittle new to my you know my
style seeing how excited hecould get and how well he
motivated us.
So just little aspects from alot of different people growing
up really helped me a lot, alittle bit of wisdom from

(10:02):
everyone.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
So your dad taught you really how to put in the
work and put your nose to thegrindstone and that hard work
and a little bit of elbow greasewill get you everything that
you want in your life.
And then your mom teaches youhey, yes, you need to work hard,
but you also need to have fun,which I think is one of the most

(10:24):
critical aspects to leadershipthat no one ever talks about,
because everyone always justwants to go achieve results,
achieve results, achieve results.
And I see it now where I'm atin my military career, and I
know you saw this too especiallywhen you make that transition
from a company grade officer toa field grade officer, the
paradigm begins to shift, whereindividuals now are focused more

(10:45):
on their careers versus focusedmore on people and soldiers,
and they start to kind of theyjust stop having fun.
Most majors that I've seen nowthey all hate their life and I
think it's because they'vestopped learning to have fun.
That's one of the things that Ilove about podcasting is that I

(11:19):
this is kind of like adecompression for me, because I
get to talk about what I love,and I love that.
Last thing that you shared isthat your, if you fail, it's
better to fail in a controlledenvironment than to fail when it
actually matters, wheneverything is on.
That's a beautiful nugget and Iwanted to make sure that I just
kind of hit that again.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, being able to fail, especially for somebody as
hardheaded as I am, being ableto fail on your own.
You know you can learn somepretty good lessons that way and
you know understanding thesometimes the importance of it,
sometimes it's the embarrassmentof it.
You know, it's just different,different dynamics depending on
what the situation you're in.

(12:00):
But being able to fail andlearn how to not fail is, I
think it's a really valuableskill for sure, so kind of
continuing on your leadershipjourney.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
when you're youth, what drove you to want to serve
and begin your service in thearmy?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Really, that decision was today, september 11th.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Oh wow, perfect, Perfect recording.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting timing on this one.
Yeah, my dad was in the Navy.
I come from a military family,although they were never serving
when I was after I was born itwas all prior to me being born
but they all had stories and Ihad Marines, air Force and Navy
all across my family.

(12:46):
So I decided to go in the armyBest choice ever.
But, yes, sir, yeah, a lot ofmilitary talk growing up from
kind of ribbing each other,talking some trash about each
other's service, you know, likewe do.
And then you know some of thereally cool stories from my dad
and my uncle's time in Korea,really post-Korean conflict you

(13:11):
know not that we were stillthere, but we were still there,
type of thing.
And you know, just hearing alot of those stories, I thought
it was really really interesting, really cool, Just something
that I always had in the back ofmy mind.
And then, when SeptemberSeptember 11th happened, I was I
was in college at the time andI was a really angry 22 year old

(13:32):
young man called my dad, just,you know, frustrated about the
whole thing.
And he just says well, what areyou going to do about it?
So the next day I called arecruiter and actually called a
recruiter, gave him a fake namebecause I knew they were going
to badger me if I, if I gave himall my real information.
But yeah, I called a recruiter,got all the information and
just a couple of months laterwent to, went to MEPS and joined

(13:55):
.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
So you were in college.
So I know this, because youstarted off as a noncommissioned
officer.
So you were in college and thenyou chose to join the military
as a noncommissioned officer.
So you were in college and thenyou chose to join the military
as a non-commissioned officer,and so I didn't know that about
you.
And I guess, before we continueto explain that to everyone,

(14:17):
most individuals that go tocollege get out and are an
officer, so they're a firstlieutenant, a second lieutenant
or a captain, based on whateverprofession they choose, and
that's one of the benefits ofgoing to school first is that
you get out and you become acommissioned officer.
What Sullivan did was, in mymind, even more of a reason why

(14:39):
I love you in terms of a servantleadership is that you had
something that you're deeplypassionate about and you wanted
to go to do that, and you didn'teven get the benefits of going
to college first.
You chose to follow your heart,so kind of, walk me through
that.
Um, what?
What was your decision to to dothat?

Speaker 2 (14:58):
yeah, I uh.
I actually I did graduatecollege before joining the army.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
I actually I did graduate college before joining
the army, but I redacteverything I just did.
Sorry say that again.
No, I said I take backeverything that I just said.
Nice about you, yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, no, I did.
I did graduate, went into, wentinto the army after that and my
recruiter really pushed me togo to all-star candidate school
right out of right out of thegate and my dad really
recommended spending a littlebit of time enlisted and learn
the ropes there.
He was enlisted his entirecareer and actually I don't

(15:38):
think any of my uncles or my dadnone of them were commissioned
officers and he recommended thatpretty heavily.
And then I had an uncle on mymom's side who retired from the
Air Force and he recommended thesame thing.
So I took their advice and wenton the enlisted side and spent
almost seven years enlisted andhad a blast.

(16:00):
It was a lot of fun, reallylearned a lot and I really
valued that time.
Because then when I did go toofficer candidate school down
the road and and became aplatoon leader, when I'm talking
to the squad leaders I'mtalking to the team leaders of
the platoon sergeant like I'vesat in that seat.
So I really tried to tocontinue holding that

(16:21):
perspective.
You know, as I was talking to asquad leader, you know I
understood it from theirperspective and I really tried
to empathize with that from thatside and some of the times I
had to go and say hey, listen, Iknow you're not going to like
this because you know I've beenin your shoes when this come
down the pipe, but I'm sorry wegot to go do this.
And other times I'd go back tothe company commander and say

(16:44):
hey, sir, listen, you know I cantell you from experience this
is not the right answer andhopefully fight some of those
battles and help that out alittle bit, you know.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
So having that perspective was extremely
valuable.
I think that's every officerthat I've ever kind of worked
for.
The most successful ones thatI've noticed were were
non-commissioned officersbeforehand.
Then it doesn't even matter howlong they were a
non-commissioned officer.
I think the reason is you justhit the nail on the head is is
trust when, when you speak as uh, you know, first lieutenant,

(17:19):
your words carry weight andpeople will listen to you.
Because you've walked the thatpath?
And and in my mind I thinkthere's only a couple of ways to
build trust One you do itthrough a traumatic environment,
like you and I sharing ourAfghanistan experience.
That that bonded us, I think,forever for sure.

(17:40):
Or you have walking that pathalready and you have that
education and wisdom, and it'snot lost on me to have how much
responsibility.
Looking back at it now, it'scrazy to me.
I didn't fully embrace it whenI was a lieutenant, but how much
responsibility a brand newlieutenant has Straight out the
gate.
You're in charge of 44 soldierswell-being including their

(18:04):
families.
In charge of 44 soldierswell-being including their
families.
And then you're also signed for, depending on the organization,
60, $70 million worth ofequipment.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
That is a tremendous amount of responsibility for a
22, 23-year-old?
Yeah, absolutely.
And even being I was a platoonleader at what?
Eight, eight and a half, nineyears in the Army and at that
time, looking at looking out ofthe formation, seeing what I
like you're talking, the bignumbers there, seeing what I
signed for and all thatequipment, and then looking out
at all these guys just lookingat me for the answers there were

(18:39):
, there were times I feltoverwhelmed.
I said, man, you know I don't,I don't know if I can do this.
You know I got all these guysthat I'm responsible for putting
together training for, got tomake sure they're prepared.
You know we're going to getready to go to Afghanistan,
let's.
You know that's trying tostress the importance of that.
Uh, at that time when I was aplatoon leader, a lot of the
young guys, they just couldn'twait to get over there.

(19:00):
And I kept telling him likeguys, slow down, slow down, you
don't want to go there.
You know, like I, I get itCause I was there once too.
But please listen like, takethis, take this training
seriously, cause you know, younever know which part of this
training is going to be the onethat you need.
So it was a lot of a lot ofpressure.
My platoon sergeant and I had alot of conversations regarding

(19:24):
how to train these guys.
Who needs what?
You know what stick lanes isset up in the back 40, in the
backyard of the barracks orwhatever it is.
Just get these guys trained upand there's a platoon leader.
It's a heavy responsibility,for sure.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
You remind me of a story.
So I was that lieutenant rightLike coming out of the the night
battle captain position, kindof like, eager to to prove
myself.
Yep, I remember that.
But I had a complete pivotpoint in my mind when I was at
um sergeant rodriguez's memorial, so I knew I was taking over,

(20:00):
ergo um first platoon, and I wasthat lieutenant who wanted to
go in, get into firefights andthen take it to the enemy.
But sitting in that memorial,because I've never been in a
situation like that, you know,as a brand new lieutenant,
really no experience beforehandand just seeing the emotions

(20:20):
from the platoon that I'm takingover, you know, mackie the xo
up there crying like a baby.
Captain wolfschleg the XO upthere crying like a baby,
captain Wolfschlegel at the timeup there crying like a baby,
and then meeting my platoonSergeant afterwards and then him
just Sergeant Kearns.
Now, it's a crazy world.
By the way, he was the firstSergeant of the very first
company that I commanded at FortPolk.
So it's funny how we justfollow ourselves.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, dude, it's crazy world.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
But sitting in that memorial and thinking, man, how
selfish am I that I came herewith an agenda and I shifted my
agenda at that point to the menand women that I led.
How can I get every singleperson home safe?
And I didn't have thatrealization.
Luckily I found it before Itook over a platoon.
But it even dug in deeper to methe night that I was taking

(21:08):
over my platoon.
They were out at the patrolbase.
If you remember that patrolbase, it was like right on the
Argon Dob by Cop Dagobod.
So you had to go out for like24 hours and come back.
I was at Cop Dagobod waitingfor my platoon and Captain Wolf,
scheigel and Mackey at the timewas like hey, dude, your
platoon is going to be here in24 hours.

(21:29):
That's where they're sleeping.
Go, get ready and just thinkingto myself all right, this is,
this is it.
It's.
And I was so nervous that night, man, I didn't even sleep a
lick.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, but that's that's the
responsibility.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, but that'sthat's the responsibility.
Once that sets in and I thinkjust about every leader at any
level that I've talked to that'sbeen in Iraq, afghanistan,
africa, wherever it was they'veall had that moment where they
said this responsibility is onme.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
What made you shift and pivot from being a
non-commissioned officer to anofficer?
You spent seven years.
What made you want to make thatchange?

Speaker 2 (22:12):
So we were in Iraq for my third deployment to Iraq
and I was in a scout platoonthere having a blast.
That scout platoon was awesome.
It was so much fun, we did somany good things over there and
I was just loving it ready to.
I kept doing that my entirecareer, if my body would hold up

(22:32):
.
And I had a conversation withthe SAR major.
He called me in one day and itwas probably three months or
four months before we were goingto rotate back home and he said
when we get back, we're goingto move you down to Bravo
company and give you a platoon.
Be a platoon sergeant downthere.
And uh, you know, I thanked himfor the opportunity and in the

(22:56):
back of my mind I'm thinking Idon't want to do that.
You know, I want to stay doingthis.
And uh, had a couple ofconversations with a couple of
guys, one of which was my S1 atthe time, and he said he said,
hey, well, you know, they justthey just opened up Officer
Candidate School and there's noboard anymore.
You just submit a packet.
And I thought I don't care todo that.

(23:17):
So he, he talked to me a littlebit and said you know you
should it's, there's a lot ofopportunities out there.
And he, I didn't know anythingabout the, uh, the VTIP program.
You know all the different, uh,all the different jobs out
there.
I just I didn't care.
Infantry was infantry, was it tome, you know.
So, uh, he gave me a, gave me alittle pamphlet or a booklet
that he printed out and and Iread through it over the course

(23:39):
of a couple of days and I wentback and said, hey, this, this
doesn't sound too bad.
So, and he said something thatkind of rung, rung pretty deep
in my heart.
He said, well, if you're gonna,if you're gonna go and sit
behind a desk as a platoonsergeant anyway, why don't you
go get paid more for it?
And I thought, well, it's notreally going to get paid, is the
answer.
But if, if, as a platoonsergeant, I'm going to go, you

(24:02):
know, kind of beans and bullets,that's what a infantry platoon
sergeant works on a lot.
Um, I thought, uh, well, maybeI can, maybe I can do something,
do something more, do somethingbigger as a platoon leader.
And uh, and he said, yeah, hesaid you could be a, you could
be a, come back and be a scoutplatoon leader.
And that's what hit me.
I said, well, if there's a wayto stay in the scout platoon,

(24:22):
then that might be it.
So end up, that never didhappen, but but yeah, I thought
I read a little bit.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Your skills were used in other places.
I was saying, your skills wereleveraged in other places.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
I think yeah, yeah, yeah.
There was a little time rightbefore, right before I went to
become the chief of operations,uh, when we went over to
Afghanistan, uh, that there wasa scout platoon, s4 chief of
operations triangle, uh, andthree different, uh, three
different lieutenants uh, that'sbattalion commander was talking

(24:59):
about who?
Who am I going to put where?
And I tried to put my word infor the scout platoon and you
see, that didn't work out.
Yeah, but yeah, but yeah.
It was over the course of acouple weeks Thought about that
transition to the dark side, asmy former NCO buddies have told
me, and it worked out.

(25:21):
It was a good time.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
And it worked out.
It was a good time.
I think you and I share this,but I think more
non-commissioned officers needto make that pivot.
To become an officer yeah,especially now and I'm not

(25:46):
knocking on like the currentgeneration, but it's it's a very
hey, what can you do for meversus what can I do for you
type of mentality, like a trueservant leadership.
And I just don't see thatanymore, especially in the
military.
With a lot of the officers thatI serve with, they make
decisions based on if it's goingto serve them.
I've, I think I've been blessedfrom the opportunity to learn

(26:10):
the hard way at a very young agein my my leadership career.
But I, like I've always usedthe question in my mind how can
I add value to my team and to myorganization?
I never go in with like anagenda of how how can I benefit
from this.
Because being an officer versusa non-commissioned officer and I

(26:30):
think this is the criticalpoint is that we move every you
know, one to two years.
Until you become a lieutenantcolonel, you're moving every one
to two years.
And what does that force you todo?
It forces you to have atransitional mindset of where
you view people as objects toadvance your career and they're
just stepping stones to get tothe other side and

(26:50):
non-commissioned officers, youguys, before you went to the
dark side, you're in a role forthree, four, five years.
There's a reason why the platoonsergeant's nickname is the
platoon daddy right.
There's a reason why theplatoon sergeant's nickname is
the platoon daddy right it'sbecause he's there far after
that lieutenant and probablyoutlives like several, and I
think that that is an issue thatthe Army needs to try to

(27:13):
address.
Of hey, like the OERs and Ithink this is a perfect world I
hear officers talk about theirofficer evaluation reports all
the time because there's so muchstress around that I, I, I, I
think that that should just bekind of taken away, not
necessarily in terms of like ahard, strict rule give the

(27:34):
individual their, their ratingof what they deserve, type set,
but I'm curious on your mindlike how would you try to solve
that?

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Well, to one point you had a minute ago, my entire
enlisted career was at FortCampbell, kentucky.
So we talk about I moved fromone battalion to the next when
my battalion disbanded but thatwhole six and a half years was
all at Fort Campbell Kentucky.
So I spent all that time in twodifferent battalions and got to

(28:07):
see numerous soldiers rotatethrough and countless platoon
leaders and officers circulatethrough and that was valuable in
itself.
Towards the OER, my point ofdelineation from chasing this

(28:29):
career.
And I heard a captain, a youngcaptain, say I've got a short
time in this organization, Ineed to make an impact so I can
get that, basically get that OERbullet to get promoted to major
.
And I said and we're not thesame.
You know that's not what thisis about.

(28:49):
You know it's about thesoldiers and what you can do for
them.
It's not about what I can dofor myself.
And that's to your point.
I think that's the mindset of alot of young leaders is what
can I do to further my careerand further myself?
To further my career andfurther myself?
And you know I will say there'sa point you do have to take
care of yourself, but that'snever the primary, that's never

(29:15):
the forethought.
Yeah, that hurt my heart.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
I would venture to say and argue with anyone.
There's a Rob Bailey song and Ican't remember.
It's like if you give a damnand just care about people,
everything will work itself out.
It's like lyrics to one of hissongs and I love Rob Bailey.
It's like workout music, man.
But I genuinely think if youshow up as your authentic self,
don't put any type of facade on,Just go be you and you care

(29:47):
about your job, you care aboutyour people and you care about
the quality of the work,everything is going to work
itself out.
I was reading a book by JamesClear, atomic Habits, and he
talks about inside out thinkingand I think most people are
focused outside in thinking, andinside out is who am I, what's

(30:08):
the process and what are theoutcomes?
Or who is the organization,core values, what's the process
and what's the outcomes?
Everyone's focused on theoutcomes and then not the
process and who they are as anorganization.
And I think that that's one ofthe issues that I see, at least
nowadays, because the army hasamazing core values as an
absolute culture, but it's likeI don't know.

(30:31):
Recently I've just noticed thatthose values aren't held in the
same esteem.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, and I think specifically the selfless
service portion of the Army'score values is one that we're
trending more away from.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, I could not agree more, and this might be a
great transition.
Question, too, is from being anoncommissioned officer to being
an actual officer, how was yourleadership style changed?
What was the dynamics betweenthe two?

Speaker 2 (31:05):
What was the dynamics between the two?
I'd say that's going fromsmaller, finer details.
As a non-commissioned officer,sometimes you're working on
where the finger is placed onthe trigger and you know that
comfortable firing position orselection of cover, selection of

(31:25):
concealment, that type of thingand being able to take a step
back and, as we talked aboutearlier, letting some other
younger leaders do those thingsand working with them and
developing a leader versusdeveloping a soldier.
That's where I think thetransition from noncommissioned
officer to officer really comesin.

(31:47):
As a platoon leader, as youknow, you've got four squad
leaders.
If you're full, you've got foursquad leaders, eight team
leaders and a platoon sergeant.
That is really developing usmore than we're developing them,
but it's working through thoseleaders and starting to look at
things from a bigger pictureperspective, and that's where I

(32:10):
think having both of thoseperspectives becomes extremely
valuable.
And a good lesson for me totake on was get as many
perspectives as possible,because when I get a chance to
see things from both sides, youcan often come to a better
conclusion with that.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Great segue question what were some of the most
influential leaders that you hadin the Army?

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh man, captain Brian Peterson, did you see he was
probably?
Oh, I know.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Before he was.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
You know BP.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
He was originally in right before.
It was Halverson that took overfor him, charlie.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Company Halverson took over Choctaw.
That might be right.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
It was either him or Seth Nason.
One of the two.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Nason was Bravo Company.
I think Halverson took overChoctaw, I think you might be
right.
So I met.
When I first got to Fort Lewis,the battalion was about to
rotate back from Afghanistan.
So I was on the rear detachmentfor about a month and a half
and Brian Peterson showed up onthe rear detachment as well and

(33:24):
there were three of us in the S3section, the Brigade S3 section
of at that time, five to thestriker brigade there.
Um, and all three of us wereprior service E6s and E7s and uh
, we just the three of us justhit it off.
It was golden, just a fantastic, fantastic trio, from working

(33:47):
together to talking trash tograppling on the mat, just every
chance we got.
The three of us were we'rereally tight.
And I rotated down to take overas a platoon leader and had had
a fantastic time there as aplatoon leader leader and had a

(34:12):
fantastic time there as aplatoon leader.
And I got a note left on mycomputer, on my keyboard, one
day that just said hope, yourplatoon leader time has been fun
.
And I thought what?
I didn't know what this was,what's this all about?
And I get a call later that dayfrom Captain Peterson.
He said hey, I just uh, I'mgoing to be taking over, uh,
charlie company here in in a fewweeks and, uh, you're going to
go be, you're going to come upand be my XO.

(34:33):
And I was like, I was excitedabout that, cause I was happy to
go work with him again, but atthe same time I didn't want.
I didn't want my platoon leadertime to be done.
I was just just under, or justunder 13 months as a platoon

(34:55):
leader and I wanted to stay withthe boys and take them to
Afghanistan.
And yeah, it wasn't a joke.
A couple weeks later I was up inCharlie Company, becoming an XO
there, and his in brief to meas his XO was if it has a dollar
sign behind it, you'reresponsible for it.
I don't want to have a flip ora change of command flip.

(35:16):
When I leave here to get out ofmy office, I said all right,
sir, I got it, let's go, let'sdo this.
So over the next year and ahalf well, almost year and a
half, just day in and day out ofhim giving me nuggets of wisdom
, whether we were in the gymtogether talking about some lift
out, doing some run on aSaturday morning at a random

(35:38):
school track or navigating somebrigade slide deck that he
didn't want to do.
So he sent me and told me whatto say, that type of stuff.

(35:58):
But he's a fantastic leader.
I've never seen one person thatcan connect with so many people
, from the random soldier insecond platoon to the platoon
leaders.
To myself, even our firstsergeant at that time wasn't the
easiest guy to get along with,but he and Captain Peterson they
meshed well and what I reallytook from him was I think one of

(36:21):
the most valuable lessons iseverybody has value, no matter
who it is.
Anybody can add value and youjust have to find what that is
and get that out of them, and hewas a master at that.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Dude, I love that man .
I'm writing that down.
Everyone has value, but it's upto you to find it.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah.
A couple of his sayings wereeverybody has value.
It's your responsibility tofind it and use it.
And time is the only scarceresource we can work with
everything else.
Wow, I love that man.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, I kept those in my back pocket from this
episode and I want to share anadditional leadership resource
with you, and that is one-on-oneleadership coaching through
McMillian Leadership Coaching.
So what do I do?
I help leaders discover theirpurpose, create a long-term
growth plan and take inspiredaction.
I believe everything rises andfalls on leadership and,

(37:22):
regardless of where you are inlife, one fact is true you are a
leader of others, you are aleader of your family and, most
importantly, you are a leader ofyourself.
To lead others well, thatstarts by leading yourself well.
If you want to learn more, youcan go to
McMillianLeadershipCoachingcomand schedule a free call today.

(37:43):
Back to the episode.
A free call today.
Back to the episode.
So after your company commandtime, I know you moved up to the
I guess the AS3 role for awhile.
Yep, and you were in that seatfor at least the time that I was
in the S3 shop, and I think youwere there for a while too, and

(38:07):
I was still as a platoon leader.
When did you transition out ofthat?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yeah.
So just before we went toAfghanistan, I had actually
packed, spent way too much timein the motor pool packing
Conexes.
We had packed many of ourCharlie Company connexes.
He said, hey, you're going tobe coming up here to work with
us and you're going to becurrent operations.

(38:35):
And I didn't know what thatmeant.
And Dave Sprague took over asthe Charlie Company XO at that
time.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, that mountain of a man broke my treadmill in
Afghanistan.
So so this broke a lot of.
Yeah, man, this dude, all right.
So he played a football for thearmy.
He's six foot eight, probablysomewhere around there, and in
his fighting weight he's like270 pounds.
So this, this knucklehead,right Full battle rattle in a

(39:06):
rucksack running on my treadmillthe only functional treadmill
that we had at our company comp.
And he comes in and tells meJosh, your treadmill is not
working.
I was like, what do you mean?
He's like, yeah, I broke it.
I was like, what do you mean?
He's like?
I tried to do a ruck run.
I was like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Dave.
So he was a platoon leader whenI was XO for a while and down
there packing Connexes.
One day there was five or sixof us down there trying to like
five or six dudes, you know this, these stud infantry soldiers
trying to lift this big box upand put and put it up towards
the top of this Connex on top ofsome other things, because the

(39:44):
only way it was going to fit inthere is get it up on top, slide
it all the way to the back.
Uh, sprague comes walking outand he says you guys get that
side, I'll get this side.
We pick that thing up and putit in the connex, with sprague
on one side and five of us onthe other side.
Oh wow, there's something.
There's something wrong withthis picture like somebody's
going to take a picture of this.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
I need to see that picture, oh man, so after, well,
I guess I picture oh man, soafter, well, I guess I, I, I
would, uh, not, I would regretnot asking this question when I,
when you and I first met, right, what were your initial
thoughts?
I would love to hear it.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Oh man, uh, hard charging young dude, uh needs
aatoon sergeant to slow him down.
Yep, I think that would beabout it.
I think we knew there was acouple of you guys you being one
of them that we felt these guysare going to be successful.
When these guys are platoonleaders, these guys are going to

(40:42):
be good.
But, just like every younglieutenant, you got to have
somebody to to guide you along,and I know from from listening
to this podcast in the past,kearns.
Kearns did that with you and Ithink he was a good guy for you
for sure.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, dude, I still say this to this day and I've
worked with some phenomenalnon-commissioned officers,
especially my first sergeantsthat I had in my company
commands.
Kearns is still, by far handsdown, the best non-commissioned
officer I've ever worked for,because he was the right leader
at the right time to mold meinto the leader that I am today.

(41:17):
I would not be.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
And that's what we all need, man.
So when?

Speaker 1 (41:23):
did you leave Fort Lewis and what was your next
assignment?
When did you kind of make thattransition out of the Army?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah.
So after we got back fromAfghanistan on that rotation I
went to the captain's careercourse down to Benning, spent
six months down there andstarted to see some of the
writing on the wall.
My body's not quite what it usedto be and I didn't feel that I

(41:54):
could be the infantry companycommander that these young
soldiers needed.
You know I can't get out thereand run with them if I can't do
that sort of thing.
So I spent a couple of weekstalking to a few members in
Building 4 down there at Fortwith them, you know if I can't
do that sort of thing.
So I spent a couple weekstalking to a few members in
Building 4 down there at FortBenning, georgia, and ended up
conducting a VTIP while I wasdown there Voluntary Transfer

(42:17):
Incentive Program.
I got out of the infantry andwent to AG becoming S1.
And coming out of the careercourse, I ended up going to the
Columbus Ohio recruitingbattalion um right in in the
middle of Ohio, uh, and thenfrom there went to the Lansing
MEPs and retired from thereofficers fully understand

(42:49):
because the army, in particularout of the air force and the
marine corps and the navy, hassuch a huge um v-tip pull I.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
I think there's like for sure, dude, I can't remember
, but I think there's likesomething around like 59, like
don't quote me on that, but like59 functional areas that you
can go into.
And you know, you know, forexample and I only found out
about this because of Mason kindof pointing us to this, lane
Berg being one too of, andthat's where I'm at right now
working in an SMU or a specialmissions unit of acquisitions

(43:19):
and acquisitions is a super cooljob that no one really ever
tells you about, especially whenwe're in the infantry.
I feel that everyone alwaystalks about you know, follow
your path as a boss, like, hey,you're not successful unless you

(43:41):
follow my path, and they neverlook at all the different tools
that you can actually have ortell your subordinate it's like,
hey, this is everything that isopen and available to you, and
I really wish they would havedone that.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yeah, that whole VTIP program is, as you were saying,
is so broad, so many optionsand even within a lot of the
functional areas, there's justso many things to do, so walk me
through that transition out ofthe Army.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Where did you kind of view yourself and what were
some of the challenges that youhad to work through?

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, Still working through.
Yeah, yeah, it was the firsttime in my adult life that I
didn't have the stability of theArmy.
That's one thing you alwaysknew.
As long as you want to stay inthe Army that's one of the

(44:39):
differences of an officer versusenlisted.
Enlisted, you keep re-enlisting.
Always a paycheck, always ahouse, always.
You know it was just consistent.
And then all of a sudden that'snot the case anymore and, as it
worked out, it was August 1stof last year that I retired from

(45:01):
the army and August 1st of lastyear that I retired from the
Army.
And August 1st of last year iswhen I started this job as a
high school athletic director.
It worked out pretty well.
I was actually on terminalleave for about three months,
saved up enough leave to justhang out on terminal leave for a
while.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Well deserved, by the way.
Yeah, yeah, but about the firsttwo or three days that was
really cool, and then I startedto get pretty bored.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
But once the beard starts getting scratchy, you
start getting that itch to go dosomething, right, right, yeah,
uh, about a, about a month ormonth and a half into that, I
started thinking, okay, so now,now it's about time to get real
about.
Uh, you know what you're goingto do and you know what.
What's the job going to looklike, what's life going to look
like, you know how are you goingto provide for the family and
all that.
And uh, uh, took a coupleonline classes, uh, along the
real estate line and planned ondoing that.

(45:55):
Uh, still not excited about it,just thought it was kind of a
means, you know.
And then I got a call.
My wife called me one day.
She got a call from her dad,who coaches here, that the
athletic director that's beenhere for nearly 20 years decided
he was stepping down.
And I just said, well, that's asign.
She said what do you think youwant to try?

(46:17):
So I did what I do.
I just dived into living andbreathing, learning athletic
director life for for two orthree days and I said, all right
, let's try this.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
That was going to be the next question I ask you is
where did you get that spark forcoaching?
And I think that was what wasit there in that moment, or was
it when you actually firststarted coaching?

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, I've.
I've coached for a long time.
Uh, even when I was in collegeand I came home for the summer,
I coached little league baseballto sport.
Sports is just that's my life.
Um, even in Afghanistan, we'reout there playing flag football.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Oh, I remember you guys had a bunch of fun after I
left, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah, speaking of Captain Walsh Lego, uh, I still
remember he dropped a uh, hedropped the touchdown pass that
would have had us had us winning.
Uh, the last game we playedthere, oh yeah, probably
shouldn't have brought that up,but but uh, yeah, no, sports is.
Sports is life, it's just.
Sports did so much for me.
Growing up, the reason I wentto college was continue playing
baseball.

(47:20):
Um, jokingly, I say I went tocollege and played baseball and
found a wife and accidentallygot an education.
You know, just, sports is it.
Just it did so much for me,from the life lessons that you
learn in sports to just havingfun being physically active, the
challenges that come with thatand had some really good coaches

(47:44):
pour into me and mold me intoreally from a pain in the neck
little kid to not so much a painin the neck anymore, I think.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, more of a shepherd.
I think that the way I see youand I view you is the way I
remember you when I was alieutenant and I always looked
up to you because you were, youhad a level of maturity and
wisdom that I did not.
I was a javelin fire and forgetit.
I was going to go back and thenI'll figure out the

(48:15):
consequences afterwards With you.
Everything was very thought outand deliberate and I will
remember that one storyboard.
I won't go into it because it'skind of not a good story to get
into, but there was basically aTaliban hit on a truck driver
outside of our comp and I wasthe night battle captain.
I had to do a storyboard on itto send it up to the RC South

(48:40):
basically leadership.
So, of course, me being me,it's like I'm just going to
write some things in there realquick.
And I sent it up and LieutenantColonel Harkins is like please,
god, tell me.
You did not send that up.
And so then I figured out likeall right, how can I recall this
?
And I finally figured out a wayto how to recall it and in my

(49:01):
haste, because I never sloweddown I send an email out.
If you get this email, pleasedisregard.
Sorry, for I supposed to sayinconvenience, but I said
incontinence.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
I was like then he pulls me in his office Colonel
Harkins with another colonel.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
He's like here's, that lieutenant has the
incontinence problem and I mean,what are you talking about?
I have no ideael.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
He's like here's that lieutenant has the incontinence
problem and I and me is likewhat are you?

Speaker 1 (49:23):
talking about?
I have no idea.
And he's like read that emailyou just sent out to all of rc
south.
I'm like, oh my god, yep, well,my army career is over, so at
least I made it through thatobstacle yep, and that's uh.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
That's part of part of what I think I saw in you was
myself in year one, two andthree of my Army career.
It was whatever the challengewas, I don't care, it's in my
way, it's not going to be forlong.
That was my mindset for quitesome time and it worked

(49:59):
sometimes.
And just understanding some ofthose hard-headed lessons that I
had to learn, I got good atpush-ups as a young soldier.
There were some hard-headedlessons there, for sure.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
And that makes me think about too, is that I think
everything happens for a reason.
So Captain Klon was my sistercompany commander through iBolic
that we're training withSergeant Kabyab and we can get
in the whole podcast episode,you know, or Captain Klein?

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I'd love to have him on here.
No kidding.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Sergeant Kabyab was my squad leader for my iBolic
class and he was my weapon squadplatoon sergeant when I got.
And then I had David Jones,who's now a first sergeant.
I had David Jones, who's now afirst sergeant.
I had David Francis.
I had a phenomenal group of notliterally every single not the
squad leader that I had platoonsergeant I had team leader.

(50:51):
That I had was just hands down,Awesome, Um, and it was easy to
look good as a as a platoonleader because I had such a
great team.
I literally had to do nothing,Um, and I would have been
successful because that's such agreat team.
I literally had to do nothingand I would have been successful
because that's how awesome theywere.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yeah, that's where you look at and say I just can't
mess this up, I just got tostay out of the way.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
So kind of keep going into where you're at right now.
What were some of theleadership lessons that you took
from the military and you applynow with coaching, with youth?

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Yeah, the job that I'm in now as athletic director.
It is amazing to see thesimilarities of a platoon leader
role.
It's my job to help theseleaders do the best they can for
the kids they coach.
And similar to what you werejust saying.
I am in a position right nowwith some extremely tenured

(51:48):
coaches, future Hall of Famecoaches, just some amazing
people around me, and I jokinglysaid it's like bumper bowling
Y'all just keep me in the lane.
So my job is to facilitate thisand stay out of their way and

(52:10):
when they do need something Ican help them.
And bigger picture ideals I canhelp guide the athletic program,
similar to what a platoonleader would do for the platoon
and then let those coaches orsquad leaders go in and handle
their business.
And knowing the Army and seeinghandle their business and
knowing the Army and seeing thatanalogy working through that
it's helped me a great deal,seeing the strengths and

(52:31):
weaknesses of my squad leadersand how I can support the
weaknesses of the squad leaders,how I can supplement that.
And then the same thing withthe coaches.
If one coach is not as good onthe admin side, I can help work
through that.
Another coach needs somepractice plans put together I
can help work with through that.
Another coach needs somepractice plans put together.
I can help with that.
You're just the backgroundhelping to facilitate all that
and kind of guide that program.
It's been really interesting tosee the similarities between

(52:52):
those two positions for sure.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
I was looking through your website that you have to
bettercoachingyouth, I think,dot com, and I was reading
through the mission statement toimprove the state of youth
sports through the education ofparents, players and coaches,
and I love that because you'refocused on the holistic approach
.
I think a lot of times, likewhen you coach, you coach the

(53:15):
child, and that's how a lot ofpeople view it.
Every coach that I ever hadthey were coaching that youth
member.
But it's a holistic approach,just like when you lead someone,
you're not just leading thatemployee, you're really leading
that whole person.
And what does that whole personcome with?
They come with parents, theycome with a family, they come

(53:35):
with an actual personal life.
I think the same is true incoaching is, if you want the kid
to be fully bought into theprogram, into the values, into
the culture, into theorganization, you also have to
be able to educate the parent interms of like kind of that
coaching mindset, and then thecoach too, which.

(53:56):
So I was reading through that,it just dawned on me that I
think to make a better player interms of sports, you have to be
able to have that holisticapproach when you come to
coaching.
And how did you realize that?

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, it was through a good bit of coaching, mostly
at the youth level, at that timewhen I first started putting
that together.
Time when I first startedputting that together and seeing
that when a young athleteleaves the practice they're on
one page, whether that's a drillwe worked on or a specific
skill that we tried to developor a character trait or whatever

(54:33):
it may be.
And then by the time they comeback to the next practice or the
next game, that has shifted.
And then I had to take a lookat what happened between those
two time periods and the general.
The general concept was theywent home and what happens at
home?
And you got a family that atthe dinner table is talking

(54:58):
negatively, negatively about theteam or the coach or other
players or whatever it may be,and then the kid is conflicted
because the kid doesn't know,the kid has a coach saying one
thing, parents saying anotherthing, and now you put this
eight, nine, 10-year-old youngathlete into that confliction
point.
That's challenging.

(55:20):
It's challenging for the team,challenging for the coach and
challenging for that youngathlete.
And generally when we take on anew role, we go through some
sort of education for that,whether that's in the Army and
you go to Ibolik to become aplatoon leader or whether it's
in the private sector.
As a civilian, there'seducation, a probationary

(55:42):
training period before you canbecome this job.
But as a youth sports parent orjust a general sports parent,
that's a new role that we takeon that we don't have any
education for.
There is education out there.
There are organizations thatreally try to focus on helping
the parents understand what'sbest for the youth athlete and
what's best for the team, andsome of our natural responses

(56:06):
are not really what's best forthat youth athlete.
But that information is notvery not widespread.
So that's where the educationpiece came in is trying to
educate.
Of course you want to educatethe athletes and the coaches,
but it's important to educatethe parents as well on really
how to be the best sports parentthat you can be for your youth

(56:26):
athlete.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
I think part of being successful, regardless of
whatever you want to do so we'lljust use sports for this is
that you have to surroundyourself with the right people,
but you also have to putyourself in the right
environment to thrive.
Then, dude, you're spot on, andI put in my old hat on when I
was in high school playingfootball.
Pat Whitlock, if he everlistens to this, I'm sorry for

(56:50):
everything that I put youthrough in my youth, but there
was always so much negativeself-talk between the parents
about that man and I was veryconflicted because I was always
thinking of, like well, my momand dad and my grandmother and
everyone talks so bad about him.

(57:10):
There has to be something aboutit.
So I had this persona of whatyou're telling me I'm not going
to listen to you because myparents don't respect you.
And if my parents don't respectyou, why should I
Subconsciously like at the timeI had no idea, but me looking
back now with kind of thematurity that I've kind of
gained throughout the years,that that's crazy.

(57:31):
It's never dawned on me.
So kudos to you that you canactually connect those man.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yeah, that's a.
I think education is important.
It's not the end-all be-all,but if there's an organization
out there that has asking foradvice on one aspect of their
sports experience or another andmany times it's just simply you

(58:12):
know.
Hey, thanks for the question.
Here's a great resource, youknow.
Click this link and you knowthe information is already there
.
Whether it's Michigan State'sInstitute for the Study of Youth
Sports or Rutgers Youth SportsResearch Council or many
numerous other organizations,the information is out there.
You just just have to go findit.
And if I can put together a Website that could, it could be

(58:34):
helpful and collect those piecesof information, I'm happy to do
that.
For sure, I'm happy to do thatfor sure.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
Dude, you just outlined the first 100 episodes
of your podcast, 100 questionsthat people have asked.
You Talking beforehand,thinking about wanting to get a
podcast.
I don't think there's any morethinking to it.
You need to do it, man, becausethere's probably such a huge
audience that could benefit fromit, and it's the same reason

(59:02):
I'm doing.
What I'm doing is I'm trying tobuild better leader, to show
that there's another way to lead.
With you, you're trying tobuild a better youth sports
program, not just a player right, but a better program
holistically.
And what does that do?
It builds strong communities.
So you need to do it, and I goback to that quote you have on
your website by Pat RileyExcellence is the gradual result

(59:24):
of always striving to do better.
I do, I love it, man.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
I love that.
Yeah, I appreciate what you'redoing, man.
This, this is good stuff.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
So the last question before we get to our final show
segment.
I try to be respectful withtime and to be about an hour.
I haven't even got through.
I have so many questions but wehad a lot of offshoots.
But I love it, dude.
So the last question I want toask you is what do you think are
some of the most importantqualities of a good leader?

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Oh, I think good leaders care about the people
they work with, whether that'sup down, left or right,
everybody around you.
You care about them, care aboutmaking them better, really
pouring into them and lettingthem know that you believe in
them, you support them andyou're here for them.
That's really important.
And understanding how tocommunicate as I mentioned,

(01:00:18):
captain Peterson was a master atthat Understanding how to
communicate.
Different people requiredifferent communication methods
and have different communicationstyles.
So being able to communicateeffectively to everyone around
you and, lastly, just justpushing, just uh, you know we're
not, we're not stopping and if,if I've got to lead you there,

(01:00:40):
just jump on, let's go for aride.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Dude, I wrote down three C's while you were talking
and I was trying to findanother one.
So care, communicate and clear.
So just keep pushing forward.
Yep, love it, man.
It's time for our final showsegment that I like to call the
Killer B's.
These are the same fourquestions that I ask every guest
on the Tales of Leadershippodcast Be brief, be brilliant,

(01:01:07):
be present and be gone.
Question one what do youbelieve separates a good leader
from a great leader?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
A good leader understands the mission,
understands what has to happenand understands how to get there
.
I think a great leader caninfluence and encourage everyone
around them to come with themand we'll all go get there
together.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
I love it.
So second question what is oneresource that you could
recommend to our listeners?

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Oh, this the internet .
It's out there.
The YouTube videos, podcastslike this one, just resources,
be resourceful, go find it,because if you've got a question
, somebody solved that problembefore you.
The answer's out there, go findit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
I love it, dude.
So third question if you couldgo back in time and give your
younger self a piece of advice,what would it be?

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
time and give your younger self a piece of advice.
What would it be?
Slow down, slow down.
As a young man I didn'tunderstand that kind of
bullheaded.
Just slow down and learn more.
When I was in my late teens andyoung 20s I knew everything,
and I knew more then than I knownow, I think.
So just slow down, listen anduse those resources.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
I love it, dude.
So last question how can ourlisteners find you and how can
they add value?

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
to you Anything, any advice you've got.
I'm all ears.
Let's make this all bettertogether.
At that website,betterusecoachingcom, there's a
contact button on there.
Send me an email, m Sullivan,at WLS Tigers dot org.
Find me on Facebook, morganSullivan.
However.
However we can communicate,let's let's have a conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Morgan, this is the exact reason I love podcast,
brother.
I get to connect with someonethat I've shared an experience
with like almost 12 years ago todate, on 9-11.
You joined the army because of9-11.
Dude, dude, it's been anabsolute honor and a privilege
this past hour to just reconnectwith you, man yeah, it's been
great.
Josh, thanks for having me yeah,brother, hey, have a great

(01:03:10):
night.
All right, team, in this timefor our after action review,
that was a great episode withmorgan and he's really shared a
lot of wisdom, because he has alot of wisdom.
He's been in the military for20 years, he's led several
formations, he has had multipledeployments and he continues to

(01:03:33):
serve.
So what are the top threetakeaways that you should have
from this episode?
One is the whole thing that Iam trying to fight, and that is
fighting against a transitionalmindset, and I see transitional
leadership as toxic leadership,especially in the military
nowadays.
And what do I mean by that?

(01:03:54):
Transitional mindset viewspeople as objects for your
advancement.
You always ask the questionwhat can I get out of these
people, what can I get out ofthis organization, what can I
get out of this situation?
That's the wrong question toask.
You should be asking thequestion how can I add value to

(01:04:16):
my team, how can I add value tomy organization?
How can I become even bettertoday than I was tomorrow?
That's a transformationalmindset.
How can I make my team bettertoday?
How can I make my family bettertoday?
How can I make this countrybetter today?

(01:04:36):
Transitional mindsets kick thecan down the road because
they're just trying to advancetheir career, and that is a
toxic mindset.
As a leader, you never have anagenda.
You should not have an agenda.
Yes, you want to haveadvancements in careers and we
talked about this in themilitary is that everyone's
always chasing that OER, guesswhat dude and dudette.

(01:05:00):
If you care about your job, ifyou care about the quality of
work that's being put out, but,more importantly, you care about
the people you're going to dowell, everything will work out
in the end.
Don't stress out about thevaluation.
Enjoy the ride, have fun, but,most importantly, just care
about people.
Be authentic and genuine andget rid of that toxic mindset.

(01:05:23):
The next one that I wrote downwas a quote that he talked about
from one of his major mentors.
That he had is everyone hasvalue.
It's up to me to find it, it'sup to you to find it.
Captain Peterson talked aboutthat.
And what does that mean?
It's the same thing that I'vealways tried to preach.
We all have blind spots, we allhave dead space.

(01:05:47):
And what does that mean?
It's the same thing that I'vealways tried to preach.
We all have blind spots, we allhave dead space.
And what is dead space.
Well, dead space in themilitary is that part of a
terrain that you can't quite see.
You can't have direct fireweapon systems placed on it.
You can have indirect fireweapon systems on it, but you
can't see it, so it's invisibleto you.
That is dead space, and we allhave dead space, and most of our
dead space is ourselves.
And the only way to counter thatdead space is to work on your

(01:06:10):
weaknesses or develop a teamthat is so strong that they
cover your weaknesses.
And everyone has a uniquestrength.
You, as the leader, have tofigure out what that strength is
and how can you apply theirstrengths, the team that you
have to the mission set andthat's one of the beauties about

(01:06:31):
the army right now is that weall have a team that we inherit
and we have to take that team tothe finish line and we have to
learn how to win with the teamthat we have.
Not every team that you'regoing to be in charge of are you
going to actually get to pick.
That's just not how leadershipworks.
You have the tools and theresources at your disposal, but

(01:06:53):
they are the tools and resourcesthat you inherit.
You can't always change yourteam, so you have to learn how
to lead that team.
And this gets to the final one.
The three C's Lead the wholeperson.
And how do we do that?
We care Genuinely care forpeople and their families.
When you lead people, rememberyou're leading the whole person,

(01:07:14):
you're not just leading theemployee.
Number two is communicate as aleader.
As you grow through yourleadership intelligence, you
gain more authority andresponsibility.
It's imperative that you learnhow to communicate effectively,
both orally and written, and Iam not a master at all.
Doing this podcast definitelyhelps me in terms of my oral

(01:07:38):
communication skills because I'mputting myself out there to
this world.
But you have to be able tocommunicate effectively to
people, and the reason that youhave to do that is you have to
be able to show them the vision.
You have to be able to tellthem what the keys are to
success.
You have to show them what theend state is and you have to
tell them what the task and thepurpose is, and you have to tell

(01:07:58):
them what the key tasks are sothey can be successful.
And the only way you can dothat is if you communicate in a
manner that they can fullyunderstand.
The last C is to clear, and Italk about this as being a
sledgehammer mentality.
As a leader, your job is toremove the obstacles in front of
your team.
And an obstacle has foureffects and I've said it and

(01:08:20):
I'll say it again block, turn,fix and disrupt.
Your job is to ensure that noobstacles block, turn, fixes or
disrupt your team, because youare a sledgehammer and you break
down barriers.
You always have to clear hey,team, do me a favor.
If you like this podcast, if itadds value to you, it would mean
the absolute world to me.

(01:08:41):
If you share this podcast withsomeone who is just starting out
on their leadership journey, Idon't care of what level
leadership there are.
If they are a leader of theirfamily, if they are a leader of
their team or an organization ora community, share this podcast
with them.
And then the second thing go,leave me a review.

(01:09:01):
It would help this podcast outtremendously if you leave a
five-star review on Spotify andApple and whatever platform that
you're listening, because ithelps me get discovered.
And the last thing support.
If you want to support thispodcast, go to
talesofleadershipcom or go tomcmillianleadershipco,
coachingcom and you can finda tosupport this podcast.

(01:09:25):
And, as always, you can go toMcMillian leadership coachingcom
or find me on social media andfollow me.
Until then, I'm your host.
Josh McMillian, saying everyday is a gift, don't waste yours
.
I'll see you next time.