January 30, 2024 • 48 mins
Have you ever felt like an artist facing a blank canvas, unsure of the masterpiece within you? Tony Martinetti, a luminary in the realm of leadership and personal growth, joins us to illuminate the path to uncovering your life's work. Together, we share tales of our first meeting and the electric conversations that sparked a deep dive into the art of maintaining tradition while embracing innovation in our professional lives. Tony lets us in on his personal "why," sparking a connection with my own quest for authenticity and the courage needed to chase after our true purpose.
This episode is a vibrant tapestry of wisdom for those of us seeking to add color to the monochrome routine of daily life. We tackle the challenge of finding passion, avoiding burnout, and the importance of focusing our energies without becoming overwhelmed. Tony and I discuss the delicate dance of setting boundaries and earning respect in the workplace. We also explore the delicate balance of preserving valuable traditions in an ever-evolving landscape of artificial intelligence and rapid change.
Wrapping up, we delve into Tony's "Campfires of Connection" workshop and his upcoming book, showcasing the power of storytelling in forging organizational bonds and personal relationships. You'll learn the importance of physical presence and the sensory connections it enables. We share heartfelt stories of overcoming workplace conflicts and the emotional release that comes with learning from our missteps. If you're ready to embrace your authenticity and turn life's hurdles into stepping stones, join Tony Martinetti and me for a conversation that promises transformation and connection.
Looking to overcome marketing blunders and find inspiration from the experts who have been there?
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Get in touch with the team at Tales of Misadventure by visiting dmgdigital.io.
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Episode Transcript
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Introduction (00:01):
Hey there, thanks for joining us for Tales of
Misadventure, a podcast allabout business blunders.
On this podcast, nicoleDonnelly, founder of DMG Digital
, talks to entrepreneurs andlearns how they turn their
lemons into lemonade.
Dmg Digital is a contentmarketing agency focused on
helping manufacturers attractnew buyers through digital
(00:23):
self-serve.
Nicole Donnelly is a fourthgeneration entrepreneur, a girl,
mom and an avid traveler.
Now let's head into a tale ofmisadventure with your host,
nicole Donnelly.
Nicole Donnelly (00:36):
Hello and welcome to Tales of Misadventure
, where we talk to entrepreneursand have them share their
business blunders and how theyturn lemons into lemonade.
Today I am so excited to bejoined by Tony Martinetti.
Tony is the founder and chiefinspiration officer for inspired
purpose partners.
Tony is doing extraordinarywork as a business coach and
(00:58):
leader.
He's a TEDx talk speaker andhas written several books, and
we're really excited today totalk to Tony about his latest
book that he's written, whichreally dives into the stories of
our past and how our pastexperiences, how we can
integrate them into our currentpresent state and use those past
(01:18):
experiences to help us makethose important, pivotal changes
in our lives.
So I'm really excited to haveTony talk about that and share
some of his experiences.
So, tony, welcome to the showtoday.
How are you?
Tony Martignelli (01:32):
I'm doing great and thank you so much for
having me on the show.
I feel like this is a perfectplace to be to talk about our
past and our stories and ourtales of misadventure, which I
love is so cool, and I love thatwe've gotten to know each other
over the years and just you dosuch great work, so thank you.
Nicole Donnelly (01:52):
Yeah, thank you .
I remember I'll never forgetthe first time that we met.
It was actually on a live event, and I believe it was on St
Patrick's Day.
I can actually remember what Iwas wearing.
I was wearing this bright greenshirt and we were celebrating
St Patrick's Day, and I think wemight have played a little van
Morris then to intro this show,and I will.
I gotta say that was one of themost just, thoughtful and
(02:15):
poignant conversations that I'veever had on a live show, and I
was just so inspired by you andjust what a thoughtful leader
that you are.
And, in particular, there wasone part of the show that I just
love where you talked aboutchange and tradition, and so I'm
excited to talk to you aboutthat a little bit.
That's one thing that I'm verypassionate about is helping
(02:36):
people navigate through digitaltransformation, e-commerce, etc.
And it is so, so challenging toget organizations, it's
challenging for us to change asindividuals, let alone trying to
get whole teams andorganizations to embrace change
in those really meaningful ways.
So, and I just I'll neverforget how, what a wonderful
(02:56):
conversation we had, so I can'twait to dive into that today, so
cool.
Tony Martignelli (03:01):
Absolutely.
And of course we had a nice, alovely partner in crime, Kurt
Anderson, who is just, he's justfull of so much energy and
positivity.
Nicole Donnelly (03:11):
So, yeah, Just a breath of fresh air and just
always bringing out the best inpeople.
So well, let's go ahead and getstarted.
So you know, as I was preparingfor the show and thinking about
you know, questions andeverything, I just think that
one of the things I really loveabout you, tony, is that you
live your life with suchintentionality and such purpose,
(03:31):
and you really encourage otherleaders to do the same to really
understand who they are, whatdrives them, and to make sure
that they're livingauthentically to that, and so I
wanted to just ask you like whatis it that is your why, what is
your purpose?
What is it like if you were tocome?
Up with a statement of like whyyou do what you do and what you
(03:53):
see as your life's purpose.
What would you say?
Tony Martignelli (03:57):
Yeah, I love this question because it gives
me an opportunity to share partof me which I don't often get to
share.
You know, people don't know thatI was an artist as a child and
oftentimes I think of myself asan artist now.
It's an identity that I want toown more fully, even though I'm
only dabbling these days.
(04:18):
But when I think about my why,my purpose is really to help
others to find the masterpieceinside of them and to find, to
create the space for them toreveal it.
And you know, I feel likethat's something that I've done
for myself and in continuing todo so.
(04:39):
But I want that for otherpeople because I feel like so
many of us are hiding somebrilliance inside of us.
It just is dying to get out,but it's hidden by a lot of
these things that get in the way, limiting beliefs or societal
elements of you.
Know.
This is what you should bedoing and this is how you should
be showing up, and so for me,it's about listening and really
(05:02):
seeing through all of the stuffon top.
That is basically covering upthat masterpiece.
Nicole Donnelly (05:10):
That's so beautiful.
You, your purpose, is to helpother people find the
masterpiece within that that issuch a beautiful like.
That gave me the goosebumpsthat's I just.
That's so inspiring to me.
It's certainly a journey thatI'm on, I think.
So what are some things likejust thinking about that?
How did you you mentionedlooking inside what are some
(05:31):
things that you had to do onyour journey to identify that
masterpiece within you?
Like, how did you get in touchwith your inner self and really
have the discernment whichrequires a lot of discernment, I
think and courage to be able tofirst recognize and then to
make the change right?
How did you come to that point?
Tony Martignelli (05:52):
I think that the cycle of discernment and
courage, it's not like a onceyou know, one starts and the
other ends.
It's like you constantly haveto go through that.
You know you, you have thecourage to take the first step
and then you have to be able tosay, hey, like, what does this
mean?
How do I really dig deep intothis and figure out what the
(06:12):
meaning of all these things are?
And then come back to taking acourageous step and
experimenting with what youlearn, and then, you know, go
deeper again.
And I think that is really beenthe journey for me is is this
sense of like finally decidingenough is enough.
I have to live a life thatfulfills me and not just a life
(06:33):
of just getting by and and just,you know, just living, I guess,
but not really, you know,having a life of purpose.
And so when I started to openmy eyes a little wider and see
that there's more to life thanwhat I was having, I decided to
ask more questions of myself andothers and through that process
(06:55):
, a whole new world started toopen up.
And that's one of the thingsthat people reflect back on me
when I, when I, started to coachthem and work with them.
They said to me like you know,every time I leave a
conversation with you, I feelexpansive and I'm like okay,
whatever that means.
Well, yeah, I mean, now Iunderstand it better.
It's I help them to see newpossibilities in themselves,
(07:19):
because I get them to see thatthey're stuck in a pattern.
Nicole Donnelly (07:24):
I love that.
What are the signs that younoticed in yourself and maybe
signs you see in other peoplesthat they're stuck in that
pattern?
Tony Martignelli (07:30):
Yeah, well, now that we're on this art theme
, I mean there's a sense of likedrae grabness I can't even say
can't talk today.
Not a good thing.
But when you start to see thecolor in your life not really
there, you start to feel likeyou're just going through the
motions and you don't feel asense of of like you know,
(07:55):
inspiration or or kind ofsomething you're looking forward
to in your life.
Then you start to realizethere's something going on here
that I'm missing.
And often do this with myclients where I say like, oh,
when you look at the week aheadand there's something, if you
don't have anything in yourcalendar you're looking forward
to, then you're starting to getinto a pattern of stuckness.
(08:15):
You should have something onyour calendar, even if it's the
worst week that you have aheadof you.
You should try to havesomething planned and take
action to plan something thatgets you excited, that you look
forward to, because that startsto put you in the right path for
you.
Yeah, and you want to bringsome color back in your life and
(08:36):
often say you know lighting,what lights you up?
You have to find out whatlights you up and bring more of
that in.
Nicole Donnelly (08:42):
Yeah, oh, that's so beautiful.
So I will tell you, like whatyou're saying really resonates
with me.
I have been over the lastseveral months kind of really
grappling with some of thosesame questions about where do I
want to take my business?
What's, what, is it that I'mreally best at right Within my
business?
And as your business grows andthings change or as it shifts,
(09:06):
you find yourself in like kindof like these pivotal moments
where you're like, okay, what'smy new role in this business, or
what do I want my role to be,and it can feel a little scary
and then it kind of caught, asyou know, as a business founder,
like it causes me to reflect,like, is this what I want to be
doing in the business?
Is this the kind of businessthat I want to be in?
(09:26):
So I've been on that samejourney where, like I've some,
I've full transparency andauthenticity.
I've looked at some of my weeksand I'm like, am I, and is that
how I'm spending the time, theway that's really filling my
soul, you know?
and yeah so one of some one ofthe things that I've challenged
myself to do and I love how youmentioned art and how you're an
(09:46):
artist is to specifically maketime, like one day a week for
curiosity.
Like every Friday I go out andI figure I find something
locally, whether it's going on ahike, that a place I've never
been, or going to an art museumjust to experience art or
something.
Something that like fuels thatcuriosity inside of me, because
(10:07):
that's how I'm wired, like Ilike to see and experience new
things.
People are wired differently.
That might be different forsomeone else, but for me that
curiosity really like fuels meand kind of lights me up, and so
I've noticed that as I've beendoing that it kind of like helps
me to get more in touch withwhat are the things I really
love.
What do you think about that?
What are your thoughts on that?
Tony Martignelli (10:27):
So many thoughts, so many thoughts.
I love that you shared that,because there's a few things
that come to mind.
Number one I think you know weget into these businesses that
we have a lot of passion for,especially, you know,
entrepreneurs and I'm not sayingthat doesn't apply to people
who are in inside oforganizations.
The reality is we have so muchpassion for them and then we
think that you know, we have tocontinue to doing the same thing
(10:49):
rinse, wash, repeat, rinse,wash, repeat because this is the
passion, right, but the fromtime to time we have to stop and
say, well, wait a minute, likecheck in with yourself and say
you know what is, what is thenext chapter of me going to be?
Because we evolve as well,right.
And so sometimes you have totake a mini sabbatical and say
to yourself hmm, you know, let'scheck on ourselves and see
(11:13):
what's next.
What's the next chapter goingto involve?
Do I need to make a pivot, makea change?
And sometimes you've got toreally be careful not to like
throw everything away, becauseit could be that you are on the
right path, you're doing theright things.
You just got to make a slighttweak or just continue, or it
could be that you want to take acompletely different shift
(11:34):
because you've realized gosh,this is really burning me out
and I'm not doing it the rightway that I want to do so.
I think it's important and thiscomes back to a tool I often use
with my clients, which isexpand your vision, narrow your
focus, which is really apowerful way to think about how
you know, oftentimes, if I'mbeing really narrow focus right
(11:56):
now narrowly, you know, lookingI might be looking at a problem
just in front of me as just thisis the only path forward.
We have to get expansive andsee what else is available to me
, but don't stay out there,because if you stay out there,
what's going to happen is you'regoing to get overwhelmed and
feel like, well, I should bedoing all this, I should be
doing that, I should be doingthis, but instead it's
(12:17):
identifying potentialopportunities that you want to
experiment with and say I wantto narrow my focus now on
experimenting with thispotential option and give that a
go.
So I know I went on a tiradethere, but I hope that was
helpful.
Nicole Donnelly (12:34):
I love that idea too, of like expansion but
not at being overwhelming byjust focusing on one part of it
at a time rather than feelinglike you've got to do all of it,
and I remember that I Isubscribed to your newsletter
and you have such great content,and one of the books that you
recommended several months agowas your brain on art, and I'm
actually reading that book rightnow.
(12:54):
It's beautiful and it talksabout, like the, the power of
how art can transform and healus just appreciating our and
creating art.
So I wanted to talk a littlebit like transition, a little
bit to that like you're anartist, what kind of artist are
you and how have you noticed arttransform you?
And is that something like youkind of like bake into your
(13:16):
coaching with your clients?
Like, what do you think aboutthat?
Tony Martignelli (13:19):
yes and yes on in many levels.
I mean, and I see, art is notjust being just this strict like
painting and drawing, which Ihistorically was a painter and
drawer, but now I've actuallytaken into elements of glass
blowing and I've done some workwith iron, you know, metal work,
which is really fantastic.
(13:40):
But I don't have to be perfectat any of this stuff.
I just like to play and I thinkthat's the key that I really
play, I lean into, I can own themantle of being an artist
without having to be, you know,gallery ready and selling my
pieces to, to the world.
Instead, it's more for my ownsense of like, enjoyment and my
(14:03):
own insight, and I take a lot oflessons from those things and I
infuse them into my writing,which is also an art, and so
using that as a way to connect.
When you get ideas from otherarenas, like being an art artist
, you get to use them as a wayto connect the dots to another
(14:25):
place, like business or inconversations with people who
are not really they're moreanalytical.
How do you get them to thinkdifferently is by using other
mediums, other fields, to allowthem to see a new possibility.
So so, yeah, that's, that's onepart of it, and then I also
would say that the other thingthat is really important is to
(14:46):
is to constantly be thinkingabout your conversations.
That you're having is how canyou create conversations that
are not just surface level butthey're deeper, they're actually
pieces of art in a way that,like you know, you're creating
through conversation.
So that's one other part ofthis which is important is, we
(15:07):
all have conversations that wefeel like we could go deeper, we
could see a bigger part of thisif you're willing to go there
that is incredible.
Nicole Donnelly (15:16):
I never thought of like a conversation as a
form of art, never like that islike completely like opening up
my whole mind about like thebeauty and power and art that is
in conversation, because you'reabsolutely right, like I think,
about some of the conversationsI've had and and the new ideas
like this, for example, thathave come from those
(15:36):
conversations that I would havenever come to on my own.
So that's that's reallypowerful and really, I think,
inspiring to think about likeconversation as an art form yeah
, I mean when you think aboutcoaching conversations.
Tony Martignelli (15:51):
There there's often a saying that it's
co-created.
All right, we co-create through.
Through coaching, it's not oneperson bringing something to the
table and then, and then thatbecomes like the, the thing that
the other person has to own.
Instead, it's about two peoplehaving a conversation and
catalyzing each other intoaction.
But it's a co-creation processso that, in essence, says that
(16:16):
it's a piece of art, it's an uhand it's didn't exist before and
it's a new thing that we'vecreated together, which is
really cool.
Nicole Donnelly (16:26):
This, right now , is a piece of art and you're
right, there's nothing else likethis conversation out there
that could ever.
Oh man, tony, that is sostinking awesome.
That is so cool.
You know what it makes me wantto do?
Have more conversations.
You know, I think, don't youfind the art of conversation?
(16:49):
It's become a little lost.
With technology it's so mucheasier for us to just text
someone or you know, and you dolose so much of the richness of
relationships.
I think that can be had.
Tony Martignelli (17:06):
That's so cool yeah, and also leaning into the
fact that it doesn't have to beperfect.
You continue to experiment andplay and and see what else you
can discover by havingconversations.
Nicole Donnelly (17:19):
So if an artist wanted to be perfect out of the
gates, then they would neverstart let's talk about that a
little bit, because I have totell you I've a very strong
inner critic and I think a lotof people do so.
There are times when I do tryand I'm like I try to journal
every day and a lot of the timeswhen I sit down and I put pen
(17:41):
to paper.
I'll be honest, that littlecritic is in there and it's
telling me like it needs to begood if it's not, and what is
good to find us right.
But like, there's this criticin me that's like the judge or
that's like puts a little bit ofpressure on you.
But the truth is like whodecides what's good or not?
You know, and what does itmatter whether it's so good, but
(18:01):
you know, cognitively Icouldn't understand that.
But what do you do to encouragepeople to kind of break down
that barrier that I think isreally common for people,
truthfully, people who are verytype A, who want it to be
perfect, who are very driven andfrankly struggle with releasing
that pressure and just being.
Are there some specific toolsor mental things that you
(18:26):
recommend people can do to kindof release some of that or get
into that place where they canjust play, like you said like I
can't tell you how much I acheto just play, but I'll tell you
that you know Well it's great.
Tony Martignelli (18:37):
I love that.
I mean, I think it's so true,we need to play more as adults
because we lose that inhibitionof play.
And so I mean, in terms of liketools and ways of doing it,
it's more through just givingpeople permission.
You know, sometimes meditationis a good way to do that.
It's just, you know, givingpeople that space to say, hey,
let's just close our eyes andsee what happens if we just let
(19:01):
go of the world as it is andimagine what it would look like
if you didn't have that criticthat you have out there, like
the art critic.
Let's fire him and let them go,and now we can go and do our
own thing and create our ownlittle thing in the world.
(19:22):
And so I know it seems maybenot gonna, it doesn't fit
everyone, so not everyone inneed is going to be up for that,
but for some it's exactly.
What they need is that sense oflike permission to say let's
just play, it's not gonna showup in any reports or be on your
boss's desk tomorrow, it is justfor you to be able to explore.
(19:45):
So I think that's the startingpoint right.
For people who are a little moreanalytical or a little bit
rigid.
Then I might say what are youtolerating that you shouldn't be
tolerating?
Yeah, and it's a differentangle.
But the reason why is becauseoftentimes we tolerate a lot in
our life.
That is stuff that we put upwith because we feel like we
(20:07):
have to be tense, structured,and so I let them kind of let go
of some of that structure bysaying, like what if you just
let go of what you're toleratingand just allow yourself to be
in control?
Nicole Donnelly (20:19):
Interesting.
What's an example of somethingsomeone might tolerate?
Let's say that they don't, thatthat wouldn't be something that
they would need to let go of.
Tony Martignelli (20:27):
Yeah, I mean, a classic example would be
somebody who has, like a bosswho tells them where to be and
when and instead said, like youknow, I'm gonna be more in
control of my calendar and I'mgonna push back and say, hey
look, I have to have certaintimes where I'm gonna work on my
creative work creative meaninglike work, work Maybe it's on
(20:49):
long-term projects becauseyou're not making progress on
the things that are importantbecause you're constantly being
interrupted by your boss oryou're constantly in drag in the
meetings.
So it's like pushing back andsaying like, no, I need, if I'm
gonna be effective as a leader,as a person who's gonna do
strategic work, then I need tohave space to do so and I have
(21:10):
to own that.
And so tolerating everyoneinterrupting you, including your
boss, is not a good way toallow that to happen.
Nicole Donnelly (21:21):
So I love that.
It's like setting learning toset better boundaries.
Introduction (21:25):
Absolutely.
Nicole Donnelly (21:27):
And I think when you do that with your, it
commands some level of respecton their part, right that you
respect yourself enough, andthen they will enter in respect
that you have set up thatboundary.
That's so interesting.
Tony Martignelli (21:41):
Yeah, and I'll just share a little story.
I remember learning this a longtime ago from someone who worked
for me, who was a young kid,who he's like well, I do these
things every day.
I go to play basketball with myfriends and we've been doing
this since the beginning of time, like the beginning of like a
(22:02):
long time ago basically, and I'mlike, okay, but what about the
reports and what about this,what about this?
And so I was pushing back and Iwas thinking myself like no, he
understands his priorities andI think it's really admirable of
him to actually say this is myboundary and I'm not allowing
you to push it.
And he did amazing work, whichwas really cool.
(22:24):
So it'd be one thing if you'resaying like no and not really
like giving any kind of leeway,but when I heard him say that, I
was like, hmm, interesting.
You know, there are things inour lives we have to say, no,
I'm gonna get the job done, I'mgonna do what I need to do, but
I also have to tell you that I'mgonna honor and respect other
(22:45):
parts of my life and own that.
Nicole Donnelly (22:48):
Love that.
I remember I had a job when mykids were young and when I took
the job I told them up front.
I said you know, I would reallylove this job, but I don't
wanna work on these during thesetimes because I have little
ones at home.
Would you be willing to let me,you know, work around that?
And they did and it was reallywonderful.
I respected them that theyrespected me in that way, and it
(23:11):
was great for my family becauseI had those hours that I wanted
and needed with my kids and Iwas still able to do the job.
And I think what was reallycool is that that example showed
the rest of the company and therest of the people on the team.
I think that the leaders valuedthat work-life balance and they
(23:32):
valued the boundaries that theemployees were asking for.
So I was really like impressedby the leadership, that they
were willing to be flexible inthat way, and I think that's
something, as leaders, that'sreally important when you do
that.
Tony Martignelli (23:45):
Alan, don't be afraid to be an example for
your own leaders.
We often say, lead by example,but that doesn't mean that the
examples have to be from thepeople ahead of us.
It could be from the people whothey could be, from you, and
you could be setting an examplefor the CEO of your company by
being who you are.
Nicole Donnelly (24:04):
So inspiring for people to hear.
I think you don't need a titleto be a leader.
Yes, yeah, well, so cool.
Well, I remember in the episodethat we had the St Patrick's
Day episode, you sharedsomething that has just always
stuck with me about traditionand I wanted to talk a little
(24:25):
bit about that, and that is howdo you balance tradition with
change?
You know, the rate of change ishappening so quickly now within
organizations, and it's onlyespecially with AI and all of
these advances it's only goingto increase more rapidly.
So having a culture and anorganization that embraces
change is so critical.
(24:46):
But embracing change likesaying you embrace change and
actually embracing change isreally hard, because research
actually shows there's this biaswhere anytime someone's
presented with something new,the immediate reaction is
negative.
Right, like it's actually aproven scientific thing that you
know people are biased in thatway to react negatively to
(25:08):
change, and one of the thingsyou said in that episode that I
loved is, whenever you're goingthrough change, it's really
important to maintain thatthread of tradition through any
sort of change project ormanagement project, which I
think was so inspiring.
How do you recommend people goabout identifying what is the
tradition that's worth keeping?
(25:31):
You know, because obviously youdon't want to throw the baby out
with the bathwater, but youdon't want to.
You know, you know.
So how can people identify thetradition that's worth keeping
and keep that through thetransformation?
That's my first question foryou.
Tony Martignelli (25:44):
I love it and it really is.
When you're asking it now, ithas to be thinking about it,
maybe not differently, but in adifferent language, because with
my most recent book, I've beenthinking about how connection is
the core of everything that Ido, and it's connecting with our
stories, connecting withourselves and then ultimately
(26:04):
connecting with others.
And so when I think about howpeople do this in their
organizations, it starts withreally having a connection to
our past as a company, as anorganization, and saying to
yourself how do we ensure weknow what it is that we're about
?
What are we getting to thisbusiness?
(26:25):
For?
What did we start this business?
You know, initially, what wasthe purpose of our business and
how do we?
What are we gonna maintain aswe move forward While also
navigating a change situation,because people need something to
hang on to and so they need toconnect with the core of what it
is that you are as an identity.
(26:45):
So it's kind of like my identity.
I connect with the idea of beingan artist and that has
something that I hid for a longtime because I felt like it
wasn't acceptable in the worldthat I was in, and now I realize
that we can own an identity andwe should own our identity as
long as we want to, even if weno longer do the thing that we
(27:07):
wanna that we're doing, itbecomes part of us, it's
ingrained in us.
But we have to make sure weunderstand what it is that we
wanna own and stick with thatand say so.
If we're a company that says weare all about serving cancer
patients, we wanna make surethat every cancer patient lives
a more fulfilling life, that weadd days to their lives and make
(27:30):
it a quality life, and we maychange what area of cancer
development, of oncology we gointo, but ultimately what stays
the same is that we're gonna adddays to their lives.
The challenge that might happenis maybe navigating change
might look like, hey, we'rehaving to lay off some people
(27:50):
because we've had to cancel atrial or this trial didn't work
out, and that's change thatpeople sometimes will be like
this is not good and where arewe going Now we're letting these
really important people whohave been part of our journey go
and ultimately it's aboutsaying, hey, we're doing what we
can to make sure we'renavigating to that one thing
that's so important to usconnecting to what started us at
(28:13):
the beginning, adding days topatients' lives.
Nicole Donnelly (28:17):
That's such great advice that people can
apply to their organization thenindividually, like really
asking yourself to connect withmaybe the little girl or the
little boy and what was it thatreally inspired you as a child?
And going back and reallyunderstanding those things that
really lit you up and how canyou identify that and then stay
true to that with whereveryou're going with your career.
But in organizations, too, likethis is something that with one
(28:43):
of the accounts I was workingwith.
They decided to invest in ahuge e-commerce project and it
wasn't going well.
It was not going well at all,and so we had to take a step
back and do an actual customerneeds assessment and ask the
customers hey, what do you valueabout working with this company
?
What are the things that youlove about it?
(29:04):
What is the experience youwanna have?
What do you expect when youwork with us?
And we had these reallywonderful conversations with
them, one-on-one, to reallyunderstand that.
And then we also talked to theemployees to say what do you
love about working here?
What is it that you value thatyou bring to customers?
And it was so enlighteningthrough that experience.
I was very humbled by it becauseI realized that the reason why
(29:25):
it didn't work and why we weregoing about all wrong is I
wasn't listening to what it isthat people valued and really
holding onto that, and that wasthat they really valued the
personal, hands-on customerservice they were getting from
their sales rep, right, likethat was what the company had
been built on.
So if we were gonna invest ine-commerce, we had to position
this not as a threat or acompetition to the sales rep,
(29:46):
but like how can we support themthrough the process?
And so it was just like areally eye-opening experience
for me about everything you'rejust saying about how important
it is to really go back to whatthe company was built on, or
what you feel like youridentity's built on, and
whatever change you're gonnamake to your point.
If you stay true to that, thenyou're gonna be much more
(30:07):
successful to get people onboard and be excited about the
change because they're investedin it.
They're a part of it.
Tony Martignelli (30:13):
Yeah, the how can change, it's the why and the
core.
That still is the same inessence, until it isn't, and
then at that point you maybehave to make some more systemic
changes that let's look atBlockbuster, for example that
didn't really.
(30:34):
They had to go out of businessbecause they had no way to
continue to stay in operations.
Nicole Donnelly (30:41):
Yeah, so Well, you mentioned your book.
I'd love to talk a little bitmore about that.
You recently published CampfireLessons for Leaders and it was
built based on your podcast, Ibelieve, which all about like
kind of you mentioned earlier onthe show integrating your past
experiences into the present soyou can navigate through.
What was your goal in writingthis latest book, like what
(31:02):
inspired this, and what are youhoping people will walk away
once they read it?
What are you hoping they'llwalk away with?
Tony Martignelli (31:11):
Well, I'll start with a goal and I'll say
that, like the goal initiallywas man, I had so many amazing
conversations with people whojust filled me up with so much
joy, insights, so much you knowinspiration, and I wanted to
champion them and share theirstories with the world.
(31:33):
And I know that there's, youknow, the podcast is out there
but I wanted to do it in a waythat was really going to to
package it in the right way thatreally highlighted the, the
themes that showed up for me,and so I started to think about
this book as a container forsharing these big lessons for
(31:55):
people to to transform theirlives by looking at their own
journey of transformation, buthaving some people who ride
along with them, these storiesand examples from people who
have been through their ownjourney of transformation and
I've had experiences that areprobably not that different than
what we go through on a day today basis and allowing them to
(32:16):
be great examples of how tonavigate challenging situations
and flexion points, or what Icall them flash points, and
realizing that we're all goingthrough these on a day to day
basis and sometimes we just needsomeone else to to say, yeah, I
get you, I understand thatjourney and if you are willing
(32:38):
to take these steps, you can dothe same thing for yourself.
You can make sense and meaningout of your story and you can
use that as a lever to propelyou in the right direction.
Nicole Donnelly (32:50):
And I think that's a great sense of like
connection and community andthat, like you have, like a
community that you're buildinglike around this book.
That would be so cool.
Tony Martignelli (33:00):
It's funny you mentioned that.
So the in terms of communitywise, it's not exactly like you
know, I'm bringing a bunch ofpeople who are going to be
sitting in room together, but Iam doing a workshop that I'm
bringing into organizationscalled Campfires of connection,
which is basically a workshopthat allows others to come
together, create connection bygetting to share their stories
(33:25):
in a campfire setting, usingsome of the frameworks and
understandings of the book.
So so it is something that hasbeen the jump off point from the
book and it's funny how youwrite a book and it doesn't
necessarily just end when thebook is done.
It's just the start of reallyunderstanding what you've done.
You know, and that's where thiscame from this, this
realization that wow, like thisis how the work extends from the
(33:50):
book, is by bringing this intothe workplaces and helping
people to see how their ownstories and their collective
stories can be an impact.
In fact, that's how I end thebook is this idea that when I
originally wanted to create thepodcast which I had no
experience with podcasting atall I had envisioned creating
what's called divergent mindsdivergent minds, convergent
(34:14):
hearts, which is a space fordifferent thinkers to come
together and then get to knoweach other and leave feeling
connected at the heart, and sonow I think the time is for in
different branding.
Campfires of connection isbasically that, but it's it's
basically creating our ownlittle campfires of connection
(34:35):
to allow others to come together, share stories, share ideas and
help each other feel connectedmore, which we need more of in
the world.
Nicole Donnelly (34:45):
And so that's what we do, especially with more
and more people remotelyworking.
You know, organizations don'thave that like physical place
where they can.
I mean, there's something aboutphysically being in the room
with someone that you care about.
That, just yeah, there's.
It's the sensory experience.
I don't know how else toexplain it or describe it, but
there is a connection that comeswhen you can see and feel and
(35:07):
hear and smell someone that youcare about or that you're
working with.
That is just there's no wordsfor it.
And there you know if there'snothing that can replace that.
So, and as we have become moreseparate in that way, like we
are craving that more than ever,I gotta tell you.
I mean, like I was so thrilledto go to conferences and
actually be in person withpeople last, last year and just
(35:31):
to be, and it just cements thatconnection you have with each
other in our relationship.
So I think it's so beautifulthat you're going to bring that
into the workplace, becauseyou're absolutely right, we need
that as humans and asorganizations to help us be able
to do better work and to livemore creatively and work more
creatively.
So that's super cool.
Tony Martignelli (35:51):
And I love that you mentioned that the.
You know the sense of likebeing in person with people and
it's so much more than just thetalking, it's a, it's the you
know physicality of it all andyou know being able to hug
somebody who've been interactingwith online for maybe five or
six years and never met inperson.
You're like oh my gosh, you'rea real person.
Nicole Donnelly (36:12):
Exactly so true .
Tony Martignelli (36:13):
Oh.
Nicole Donnelly (36:14):
I love all of that.
You mentioned that there's aframework that you've noticed
for people that are kind ofgoing through these flash points
and trying to like integratewith house with their kind of
like current and future.
Can you give us a little sneakpeek or maybe like a little
teaser about like thisframeworks that people might
want to be like ooh, that youknow what's like a little nugget
(36:35):
we can hold on to that willwill help us understand a little
bit more about this.
Tony Martignelli (36:40):
I mean, I'll give you a little bit of a taste
, because it's a there's a lotto it and it's kind of a simple
framework.
But I mean, the starting pointis to have the lens to look at
things.
You know you want to start byentering your the view of how
you're looking at your stories.
As you know, there's a 3Cframework, which is curiosity,
compassion and connection.
And so curiosity about gettingcurious, about what it is that
(37:05):
has made you the person you aretoday and what are some of the
things that you've overlooked,what are the things that you may
want to have another look atalong your journey.
Compassion, don't judge yourself.
Like you know, we talked aboutimperfection and our journeys
through life are nothing shortof imperfection.
They could be defined asimperfection, because that's
(37:28):
what makes us human.
So, by by way of that, becompassionate about your, about
your own journey, the flaws, theflaws that you've stumbled,
those stumbling blocks havehelped you to learn.
And when we take leaps into newthings, we learn, we leap to
learn, and that is part of, youknow, becoming who we are.
And then the third C connectionis, you know, it's not just
(37:51):
about connecting with others,but it's also make the
connection between what you'reseeing and what you are
experiencing.
So how are you seeing aconnection between what you've,
you know discovered and whatyou're, you know, experiencing?
So maybe there's something youmight notice about how you're
showing up today.
That you've now seen is part ofwhat you had experienced as a
(38:15):
child.
What I've seen through a lot ofthe stories that I've discovered
, through the people in mypodcast and beyond, is that a
lot of the little things havebeen seen in us as children.
You know well one of my, one ofmy guests, you know, jeffrey
Shaw, who you might know, jeff,he's been a.
He's been self employed sinceday one.
He's used to sell eggs onSundays and Saturdays as a child
(38:40):
, and then he, you know,eventually now he's self
employed.
He's never been employed byanybody, so so it's really
remarkable, and in his storiesin the book it's really, it's
really fascinating.
But I think it's interestingwhen you think about how, like
the things that you did when youwere younger, they stick with
you throughout life.
Nicole Donnelly (39:01):
That's so true.
I mean, I gotta tell you I loveoysters.
I am obsessed with raw oysterson the half shelf, okay, and not
a lot of people are, I got totell you.
I have very few family orfriends that will enjoy the
immense pleasure that it is tohave a raw oyster from Prince
Edward Island or like theNorthwest.
(39:21):
And when I, when I ever I, eatan oyster, I try to explain this
to people.
So, like it's just this bigslimy piece of snot, like how
can you enjoy this oyster?
And I have to tell you like itis.
Every time.
I grew up in SouthernCalifornia, so I would go to the
all the time and I tell you,every time I eat an oyster it
takes me back to my childhoodand I feel like I'm at the beach
(39:44):
, playing in the water, justlike, oh my gosh, I'm getting
emotional, like just being free,you know.
So, like, every time I eat thatoyster it takes me there and
it's like a very like emotionalexperience for me, you know.
And it's even more cool when Iget to experience it with other
people who are like, like,really into, like it's a social
(40:05):
thing.
So I totally love and identifywith the fact that we do have
these childhood experiences thatreally, like they stick with, I
mean clearly stick with us andthey inspires.
But are you an oyster person,are we?
Yeah?
Tony Martignelli (40:20):
yeah, absolutely, I'm in the Northeast
, so of course we have.
We have the best oystertogether.
Nicole Donnelly (40:26):
Someday.
We're gonna meet in person.
I'm gonna give you a big hugand I'm gonna enjoy that like
being in person with you, andwe're gonna sit down and have
raw oysters on the half shelland it's gonna be amazing.
Tony Martignelli (40:38):
Bring it on.
Nicole Donnelly (40:41):
That'd be amazing.
Oh my gosh, so I can't.
I just can't wait for thepeople listening to be able to
read this book that you'vewritten.
It's you know, it's somethingthat I know that has been a
passion project of yours formany years, with all the guests
that you've had on your show,and I bet it's like so rewarding
for you to be able to see itcome to life and to be able to
celebrate their stories, andwhat an inspiration that will be
(41:04):
for so many people.
I'm just really excited for you.
Tony Martignelli (41:07):
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.
Nicole Donnelly (41:11):
Man, this has been so much fun.
I didn't know I was gonna startcrying.
I shouldn't know that though,it's Tony, because you just
bring that out like you.
Just you have.
I would say, like you have thisability to just really explain
this, tony, you, there's safetywith you.
Like people feel like they canbe safe and be who they, are and
(41:33):
just really let down, andthat's a beautiful gift.
So.
I thank you for you know,bringing that always to every
conversation that we have.
It's really wonderful so.
Tony Martignelli (41:44):
I'm gonna have to make that into the.
I put the Barbara Walters, anelement of Barbara Walters,
inside of me.
You know, people cry, you know,in a good way.
Nicole Donnelly (41:54):
Who knew?
I honestly had no idea I wasgonna be crying talking about
oysters today, but you broughtit out.
That was really cool.
So I know we only have a fewminutes left, but I would love
to talk just a little bit.
You talked a little bit abouthow I'd love to end the show and
just talk about the fact thatwe all make mistakes, and that's
one of the core themes of thepodcast is, we all have our
(42:15):
tales of misadventure asentrepreneurs, as business
leaders.
There's always going to bethose times.
We're going to fall down andmake mistakes, sometimes big and
sometimes small, and it hurts,it does not feel good.
Can you really painful?
Do you have any like specificexamples of maybe miss a
misadventure in your ownentrepreneurial journey?
Or do maybe not even as anentrepreneur, but just in your
(42:37):
journey?
That was a really difficultmistake that you kind of had to
overcome and get past.
What got you through and whatwas that experience like for you
?
Tony Martignelli (42:49):
Yeah, I'm going to share one, that is, it
has a lot to do with holding agrudge with somebody who I
worked with.
And so I worked with somebodywho was super talented, she was
so great and for some reason,the two of us just didn't see
eye to eye and it went on for solong and it felt like we
(43:09):
constantly were at odds and youknow, it was challenging.
It created a very challengingsituation because we reported to
the same person and it feltlike we were always trying to
one up each other and and andyeah, it created a toxic
environment and it was tough forme because I didn't want that
(43:33):
to be the case, but it justbecame that.
And when I realized is thateventually we, we started to
have a conversation about it andsaid, hey look, we've got to
overcome this, We've got toovercome this challenging
situation.
And I thought it was just a oneway thing.
I thought it was just me, youknow, feeling like you know
there's something wrong with theway that I was being portrayed
(43:56):
by her or there's something, butit was both ways.
We felt kind of like triggeredby each other.
But what I realized through thiswhole situation is that once we
had a conversation and startedto really understand that we're
both good people, we both wantthe right things and if we just
talk more, we could actuallyovercome that.
(44:16):
And it has me thinking about alot of the things we do today
where, oftentimes, like we makeup stories in our heads about
people we see online.
We see people who are like youknow, knocking out of the park
or they're you know.
You feel like, oh, I reallyhate that person for being so
great, you know.
But the reality is, have youever talked to them and asked
(44:36):
them about, like, what's theirjourney, who are they and what
are they all about?
Hey, maybe it's.
Maybe they're the next personyou're going to collaborate with
.
So I share this story because Ifeel like it has this at the
center of it all.
It's like stop getting in yourown way and start having
conversations, the mostdifficult conversations you can
(44:58):
have, because it could be theone that opens the door to the
most beautiful relationship youcould have.
Nicole Donnelly (45:05):
Oh, that is so beautiful.
I think we can all relate tothat, that experience of having
difficult relationships in theworkplace.
We all, because we all have weall come with different work
styles and the way that we seethe world and different
perspectives, and they're andthat's a beautiful thing.
It's beautiful, for example,that like, for example, me, I
(45:26):
tend to be very macro.
Okay, I want to be up here inthe sky thinking about the
vision and the big picture, andif you ask me to get down into
the weeds, I'm not going to behappy and I'm not going to do it
.
Very well, you know.
But then there are other peoplethat just like to live down
there, right, and so if you'reworking people like that, it's
like it's and you have thatdifference, it's hard.
Sometimes there can be atendency to butt heads in all of
(45:49):
those different ways.
So I think that's such abeautiful example of just like
having more conversations ratherthan just letting it be that
way.
I guess I don't know, yeah,yeah.
Tony Martignelli (46:00):
letting it fester, or letting it just be,
continue to be a thing thatcontrols you as opposed to
releases you which I think is animportant way to think about it
is that the only person who'ssuffering is you.
Nicole Donnelly (46:14):
And who's suffering is you.
That is such a great lesson inforgiveness, right?
I mean there's.
There's a beautiful quote I'mgoing to botch it about how you
know, forgiveness is not reallyfor the other person, it's for
you, for you to feel like apiece and everything.
So what a beautiful example.
Thanks for sharing it, tony.
This is such a wonderful, oh mygosh, can we come into a park
(46:36):
to believe, come into a park, tothat be so far Absolutely Any
day you in person with oysters.
Tony Martignelli (46:44):
Yes, that's happening.
I'll bring the oysters.
Nicole Donnelly (46:47):
Yeah, that's so cool, but yeah, this has been
such a delight.
I just want to thank you forcoming on the show and is there
anything that you'd like toshare with our guests.
I'm something new that's up andcoming for you when you
workshops or anything that youlove to talk about the three.
Tony Martignelli (47:02):
Um, nothing much.
My dogs are excited aboutsomething I don't know, but I
will say the one thing I willshare is just my website and
place to if you can find me isis I purpose partnerscom.
I try to shorten the web URL alittle bit, so I think go check
out there.
You can find out more about thebooks, the podcast and
everything, and they're cheeringfor you.
Nicole Donnelly (47:28):
Yeah, they're excited to that.
Sounds wonderful, but yeahthat's that's.
Tony Martignelli (47:32):
That's what I'll leave.
It is that you know.
Come check me out and um, yeah,happy to have a chat.
Nicole Donnelly (47:37):
Everyone out there.
If you get a chance to readTony's latest book and listen
into his podcast, I hope thishas just given you a really
awesome sneak peek on what anincredible leader Tony is and
all the great work that he'sdoing just helping people live
authentically and intentionallyand with purpose and be able to
create and identify their owninternal masterpiece.
So thank you so much forjoining us today for another
(48:00):
episode of tales of misadventure, where we talked to amazing
entrepreneurs like Tony and helpthem learn, help them share
their stories about they turnedlemons into lemonade, and so we
look forward to seeing you onanother episode of the show.
Introduction (48:15):
Tales of Misadventure is produced, edited
and moderated by Julie Bacellowith Bacello Media, music by
Marcus Way.
Special thanks to our amazingguests and the entire DMG
digital team.
Visit us at dmgdigitalio to getaccess to all our podcast
interviews and other helpfulresources, and if you'd like to
get updates on the latest andgreatest, please sign up for our
(48:36):
email newsletter.
We'll see you next time foranother episode of Tales of
Misadventure.
Until then, keep fallingforward.
Hey there, thanks for joining us for Tales of
Misadventure, a podcast allabout business blunders.
On this podcast, nicoleDonnelly, founder of DMG Digital
, talks to entrepreneurs andlearns how they turn their
lemons into lemonade.
Dmg Digital is a contentmarketing agency focused on
helping manufacturers attractnew buyers through digital
(00:23):
self-serve.
Nicole Donnelly is a fourthgeneration entrepreneur, a girl,
mom and an avid traveler.
Now let's head into a tale ofmisadventure with your host,
nicole Donnelly.
Nicole Donnelly (00:36):
Hello and welcome to Tales of Misadventure
, where we talk to entrepreneursand have them share their
business blunders and how theyturn lemons into lemonade.
Today I am so excited to bejoined by Tony Martinetti.
Tony is the founder and chiefinspiration officer for inspired
purpose partners.
Tony is doing extraordinarywork as a business coach and
(00:58):
leader.
He's a TEDx talk speaker andhas written several books, and
we're really excited today totalk to Tony about his latest
book that he's written, whichreally dives into the stories of
our past and how our pastexperiences, how we can
integrate them into our currentpresent state and use those past
(01:18):
experiences to help us makethose important, pivotal changes
in our lives.
So I'm really excited to haveTony talk about that and share
some of his experiences.
So, tony, welcome to the showtoday.
How are you?
Tony Martignelli (01:32):
I'm doing great and thank you so much for
having me on the show.
I feel like this is a perfectplace to be to talk about our
past and our stories and ourtales of misadventure, which I
love is so cool, and I love thatwe've gotten to know each other
over the years and just you dosuch great work, so thank you.
Nicole Donnelly (01:52):
Yeah, thank you .
I remember I'll never forgetthe first time that we met.
It was actually on a live event, and I believe it was on St
Patrick's Day.
I can actually remember what Iwas wearing.
I was wearing this bright greenshirt and we were celebrating
St Patrick's Day, and I think wemight have played a little van
Morris then to intro this show,and I will.
I gotta say that was one of themost just, thoughtful and
(02:15):
poignant conversations that I'veever had on a live show, and I
was just so inspired by you andjust what a thoughtful leader
that you are.
And, in particular, there wasone part of the show that I just
love where you talked aboutchange and tradition, and so I'm
excited to talk to you aboutthat a little bit.
That's one thing that I'm verypassionate about is helping
(02:36):
people navigate through digitaltransformation, e-commerce, etc.
And it is so, so challenging toget organizations, it's
challenging for us to change asindividuals, let alone trying to
get whole teams andorganizations to embrace change
in those really meaningful ways.
So, and I just I'll neverforget how, what a wonderful
(02:56):
conversation we had, so I can'twait to dive into that today, so
cool.
Tony Martignelli (03:01):
Absolutely.
And of course we had a nice, alovely partner in crime, Kurt
Anderson, who is just, he's justfull of so much energy and
positivity.
Nicole Donnelly (03:11):
So, yeah, Just a breath of fresh air and just
always bringing out the best inpeople.
So well, let's go ahead and getstarted.
So you know, as I was preparingfor the show and thinking about
you know, questions andeverything, I just think that
one of the things I really loveabout you, tony, is that you
live your life with suchintentionality and such purpose,
(03:31):
and you really encourage otherleaders to do the same to really
understand who they are, whatdrives them, and to make sure
that they're livingauthentically to that, and so I
wanted to just ask you like whatis it that is your why, what is
your purpose?
What is it like if you were tocome?
Up with a statement of like whyyou do what you do and what you
(03:53):
see as your life's purpose.
What would you say?
Tony Martignelli (03:57):
Yeah, I love this question because it gives
me an opportunity to share partof me which I don't often get to
share.
You know, people don't know thatI was an artist as a child and
oftentimes I think of myself asan artist now.
It's an identity that I want toown more fully, even though I'm
only dabbling these days.
(04:18):
But when I think about my why,my purpose is really to help
others to find the masterpieceinside of them and to find, to
create the space for them toreveal it.
And you know, I feel likethat's something that I've done
for myself and in continuing todo so.
(04:39):
But I want that for otherpeople because I feel like so
many of us are hiding somebrilliance inside of us.
It just is dying to get out,but it's hidden by a lot of
these things that get in the way, limiting beliefs or societal
elements of you.
Know.
This is what you should bedoing and this is how you should
be showing up, and so for me,it's about listening and really
(05:02):
seeing through all of the stuffon top.
That is basically covering upthat masterpiece.
Nicole Donnelly (05:10):
That's so beautiful.
You, your purpose, is to helpother people find the
masterpiece within that that issuch a beautiful like.
That gave me the goosebumpsthat's I just.
That's so inspiring to me.
It's certainly a journey thatI'm on, I think.
So what are some things likejust thinking about that?
How did you you mentionedlooking inside what are some
(05:31):
things that you had to do onyour journey to identify that
masterpiece within you?
Like, how did you get in touchwith your inner self and really
have the discernment whichrequires a lot of discernment, I
think and courage to be able tofirst recognize and then to
make the change right?
How did you come to that point?
Tony Martignelli (05:52):
I think that the cycle of discernment and
courage, it's not like a onceyou know, one starts and the
other ends.
It's like you constantly haveto go through that.
You know you, you have thecourage to take the first step
and then you have to be able tosay, hey, like, what does this
mean?
How do I really dig deep intothis and figure out what the
(06:12):
meaning of all these things are?
And then come back to taking acourageous step and
experimenting with what youlearn, and then, you know, go
deeper again.
And I think that is really beenthe journey for me is is this
sense of like finally decidingenough is enough.
I have to live a life thatfulfills me and not just a life
(06:33):
of just getting by and and just,you know, just living, I guess,
but not really, you know,having a life of purpose.
And so when I started to openmy eyes a little wider and see
that there's more to life thanwhat I was having, I decided to
ask more questions of myself andothers and through that process
(06:55):
, a whole new world started toopen up.
And that's one of the thingsthat people reflect back on me
when I, when I, started to coachthem and work with them.
They said to me like you know,every time I leave a
conversation with you, I feelexpansive and I'm like okay,
whatever that means.
Well, yeah, I mean, now Iunderstand it better.
It's I help them to see newpossibilities in themselves,
(07:19):
because I get them to see thatthey're stuck in a pattern.
Nicole Donnelly (07:24):
I love that.
What are the signs that younoticed in yourself and maybe
signs you see in other peoplesthat they're stuck in that
pattern?
Tony Martignelli (07:30):
Yeah, well, now that we're on this art theme
, I mean there's a sense of likedrae grabness I can't even say
can't talk today.
Not a good thing.
But when you start to see thecolor in your life not really
there, you start to feel likeyou're just going through the
motions and you don't feel asense of of like you know,
(07:55):
inspiration or or kind ofsomething you're looking forward
to in your life.
Then you start to realizethere's something going on here
that I'm missing.
And often do this with myclients where I say like, oh,
when you look at the week aheadand there's something, if you
don't have anything in yourcalendar you're looking forward
to, then you're starting to getinto a pattern of stuckness.
(08:15):
You should have something onyour calendar, even if it's the
worst week that you have aheadof you.
You should try to havesomething planned and take
action to plan something thatgets you excited, that you look
forward to, because that startsto put you in the right path for
you.
Yeah, and you want to bringsome color back in your life and
(08:36):
often say you know lighting,what lights you up?
You have to find out whatlights you up and bring more of
that in.
Nicole Donnelly (08:42):
Yeah, oh, that's so beautiful.
So I will tell you, like whatyou're saying really resonates
with me.
I have been over the lastseveral months kind of really
grappling with some of thosesame questions about where do I
want to take my business?
What's, what, is it that I'mreally best at right Within my
business?
And as your business grows andthings change or as it shifts,
(09:06):
you find yourself in like kindof like these pivotal moments
where you're like, okay, what'smy new role in this business, or
what do I want my role to be,and it can feel a little scary
and then it kind of caught, asyou know, as a business founder,
like it causes me to reflect,like, is this what I want to be
doing in the business?
Is this the kind of businessthat I want to be in?
(09:26):
So I've been on that samejourney where, like I've some,
I've full transparency andauthenticity.
I've looked at some of my weeksand I'm like, am I, and is that
how I'm spending the time, theway that's really filling my
soul, you know?
and yeah so one of some one ofthe things that I've challenged
myself to do and I love how youmentioned art and how you're an
(09:46):
artist is to specifically maketime, like one day a week for
curiosity.
Like every Friday I go out andI figure I find something
locally, whether it's going on ahike, that a place I've never
been, or going to an art museumjust to experience art or
something.
Something that like fuels thatcuriosity inside of me, because
(10:07):
that's how I'm wired, like Ilike to see and experience new
things.
People are wired differently.
That might be different forsomeone else, but for me that
curiosity really like fuels meand kind of lights me up, and so
I've noticed that as I've beendoing that it kind of like helps
me to get more in touch withwhat are the things I really
love.
What do you think about that?
What are your thoughts on that?
Tony Martignelli (10:27):
So many thoughts, so many thoughts.
I love that you shared that,because there's a few things
that come to mind.
Number one I think you know weget into these businesses that
we have a lot of passion for,especially, you know,
entrepreneurs and I'm not sayingthat doesn't apply to people
who are in inside oforganizations.
The reality is we have so muchpassion for them and then we
think that you know, we have tocontinue to doing the same thing
(10:49):
rinse, wash, repeat, rinse,wash, repeat because this is the
passion, right, but the fromtime to time we have to stop and
say, well, wait a minute, likecheck in with yourself and say
you know what is, what is thenext chapter of me going to be?
Because we evolve as well,right.
And so sometimes you have totake a mini sabbatical and say
to yourself hmm, you know, let'scheck on ourselves and see
(11:13):
what's next.
What's the next chapter goingto involve?
Do I need to make a pivot, makea change?
And sometimes you've got toreally be careful not to like
throw everything away, becauseit could be that you are on the
right path, you're doing theright things.
You just got to make a slighttweak or just continue, or it
could be that you want to take acompletely different shift
(11:34):
because you've realized gosh,this is really burning me out
and I'm not doing it the rightway that I want to do so.
I think it's important and thiscomes back to a tool I often use
with my clients, which isexpand your vision, narrow your
focus, which is really apowerful way to think about how
you know, oftentimes, if I'mbeing really narrow focus right
(11:56):
now narrowly, you know, lookingI might be looking at a problem
just in front of me as just thisis the only path forward.
We have to get expansive andsee what else is available to me
, but don't stay out there,because if you stay out there,
what's going to happen is you'regoing to get overwhelmed and
feel like, well, I should bedoing all this, I should be
doing that, I should be doingthis, but instead it's
(12:17):
identifying potentialopportunities that you want to
experiment with and say I wantto narrow my focus now on
experimenting with thispotential option and give that a
go.
So I know I went on a tiradethere, but I hope that was
helpful.
Nicole Donnelly (12:34):
I love that idea too, of like expansion but
not at being overwhelming byjust focusing on one part of it
at a time rather than feelinglike you've got to do all of it,
and I remember that I Isubscribed to your newsletter
and you have such great content,and one of the books that you
recommended several months agowas your brain on art, and I'm
actually reading that book rightnow.
(12:54):
It's beautiful and it talksabout, like the, the power of
how art can transform and healus just appreciating our and
creating art.
So I wanted to talk a littlebit like transition, a little
bit to that like you're anartist, what kind of artist are
you and how have you noticed arttransform you?
And is that something like youkind of like bake into your
(13:16):
coaching with your clients?
Like, what do you think aboutthat?
Tony Martignelli (13:19):
yes and yes on in many levels.
I mean, and I see, art is notjust being just this strict like
painting and drawing, which Ihistorically was a painter and
drawer, but now I've actuallytaken into elements of glass
blowing and I've done some workwith iron, you know, metal work,
which is really fantastic.
(13:40):
But I don't have to be perfectat any of this stuff.
I just like to play and I thinkthat's the key that I really
play, I lean into, I can own themantle of being an artist
without having to be, you know,gallery ready and selling my
pieces to, to the world.
Instead, it's more for my ownsense of like, enjoyment and my
(14:03):
own insight, and I take a lot oflessons from those things and I
infuse them into my writing,which is also an art, and so
using that as a way to connect.
When you get ideas from otherarenas, like being an art artist
, you get to use them as a wayto connect the dots to another
(14:25):
place, like business or inconversations with people who
are not really they're moreanalytical.
How do you get them to thinkdifferently is by using other
mediums, other fields, to allowthem to see a new possibility.
So so, yeah, that's, that's onepart of it, and then I also
would say that the other thingthat is really important is to
(14:46):
is to constantly be thinkingabout your conversations.
That you're having is how canyou create conversations that
are not just surface level butthey're deeper, they're actually
pieces of art in a way that,like you know, you're creating
through conversation.
So that's one other part ofthis which is important is, we
(15:07):
all have conversations that wefeel like we could go deeper, we
could see a bigger part of thisif you're willing to go there
that is incredible.
Nicole Donnelly (15:16):
I never thought of like a conversation as a
form of art, never like that islike completely like opening up
my whole mind about like thebeauty and power and art that is
in conversation, because you'reabsolutely right, like I think,
about some of the conversationsI've had and and the new ideas
like this, for example, thathave come from those
(15:36):
conversations that I would havenever come to on my own.
So that's that's reallypowerful and really, I think,
inspiring to think about likeconversation as an art form yeah
, I mean when you think aboutcoaching conversations.
Tony Martignelli (15:51):
There there's often a saying that it's
co-created.
All right, we co-create through.
Through coaching, it's not oneperson bringing something to the
table and then, and then thatbecomes like the, the thing that
the other person has to own.
Instead, it's about two peoplehaving a conversation and
catalyzing each other intoaction.
But it's a co-creation processso that, in essence, says that
(16:16):
it's a piece of art, it's an uhand it's didn't exist before and
it's a new thing that we'vecreated together, which is
really cool.
Nicole Donnelly (16:26):
This, right now , is a piece of art and you're
right, there's nothing else likethis conversation out there
that could ever.
Oh man, tony, that is sostinking awesome.
That is so cool.
You know what it makes me wantto do?
Have more conversations.
You know, I think, don't youfind the art of conversation?
(16:49):
It's become a little lost.
With technology it's so mucheasier for us to just text
someone or you know, and you dolose so much of the richness of
relationships.
I think that can be had.
Tony Martignelli (17:06):
That's so cool yeah, and also leaning into the
fact that it doesn't have to beperfect.
You continue to experiment andplay and and see what else you
can discover by havingconversations.
Nicole Donnelly (17:19):
So if an artist wanted to be perfect out of the
gates, then they would neverstart let's talk about that a
little bit, because I have totell you I've a very strong
inner critic and I think a lotof people do so.
There are times when I do tryand I'm like I try to journal
every day and a lot of the timeswhen I sit down and I put pen
(17:41):
to paper.
I'll be honest, that littlecritic is in there and it's
telling me like it needs to begood if it's not, and what is
good to find us right.
But like, there's this criticin me that's like the judge or
that's like puts a little bit ofpressure on you.
But the truth is like whodecides what's good or not?
You know, and what does itmatter whether it's so good, but
(18:01):
you know, cognitively Icouldn't understand that.
But what do you do to encouragepeople to kind of break down
that barrier that I think isreally common for people,
truthfully, people who are verytype A, who want it to be
perfect, who are very driven andfrankly struggle with releasing
that pressure and just being.
Are there some specific toolsor mental things that you
(18:26):
recommend people can do to kindof release some of that or get
into that place where they canjust play, like you said like I
can't tell you how much I acheto just play, but I'll tell you
that you know Well it's great.
Tony Martignelli (18:37):
I love that.
I mean, I think it's so true,we need to play more as adults
because we lose that inhibitionof play.
And so I mean, in terms of liketools and ways of doing it,
it's more through just givingpeople permission.
You know, sometimes meditationis a good way to do that.
It's just, you know, givingpeople that space to say, hey,
let's just close our eyes andsee what happens if we just let
(19:01):
go of the world as it is andimagine what it would look like
if you didn't have that criticthat you have out there, like
the art critic.
Let's fire him and let them go,and now we can go and do our
own thing and create our ownlittle thing in the world.
(19:22):
And so I know it seems maybenot gonna, it doesn't fit
everyone, so not everyone inneed is going to be up for that,
but for some it's exactly.
What they need is that sense oflike permission to say let's
just play, it's not gonna showup in any reports or be on your
boss's desk tomorrow, it is justfor you to be able to explore.
(19:45):
So I think that's the startingpoint right.
For people who are a little moreanalytical or a little bit
rigid.
Then I might say what are youtolerating that you shouldn't be
tolerating?
Yeah, and it's a differentangle.
But the reason why is becauseoftentimes we tolerate a lot in
our life.
That is stuff that we put upwith because we feel like we
(20:07):
have to be tense, structured,and so I let them kind of let go
of some of that structure bysaying, like what if you just
let go of what you're toleratingand just allow yourself to be
in control?
Nicole Donnelly (20:19):
Interesting.
What's an example of somethingsomeone might tolerate?
Let's say that they don't, thatthat wouldn't be something that
they would need to let go of.
Tony Martignelli (20:27):
Yeah, I mean, a classic example would be
somebody who has, like a bosswho tells them where to be and
when and instead said, like youknow, I'm gonna be more in
control of my calendar and I'mgonna push back and say, hey
look, I have to have certaintimes where I'm gonna work on my
creative work creative meaninglike work, work Maybe it's on
(20:49):
long-term projects becauseyou're not making progress on
the things that are importantbecause you're constantly being
interrupted by your boss oryou're constantly in drag in the
meetings.
So it's like pushing back andsaying like, no, I need, if I'm
gonna be effective as a leader,as a person who's gonna do
strategic work, then I need tohave space to do so and I have
(21:10):
to own that.
And so tolerating everyoneinterrupting you, including your
boss, is not a good way toallow that to happen.
Nicole Donnelly (21:21):
So I love that.
It's like setting learning toset better boundaries.
Introduction (21:25):
Absolutely.
Nicole Donnelly (21:27):
And I think when you do that with your, it
commands some level of respecton their part, right that you
respect yourself enough, andthen they will enter in respect
that you have set up thatboundary.
That's so interesting.
Tony Martignelli (21:41):
Yeah, and I'll just share a little story.
I remember learning this a longtime ago from someone who worked
for me, who was a young kid,who he's like well, I do these
things every day.
I go to play basketball with myfriends and we've been doing
this since the beginning of time, like the beginning of like a
(22:02):
long time ago basically, and I'mlike, okay, but what about the
reports and what about this,what about this?
And so I was pushing back and Iwas thinking myself like no, he
understands his priorities andI think it's really admirable of
him to actually say this is myboundary and I'm not allowing
you to push it.
And he did amazing work, whichwas really cool.
(22:24):
So it'd be one thing if you'resaying like no and not really
like giving any kind of leeway,but when I heard him say that, I
was like, hmm, interesting.
You know, there are things inour lives we have to say, no,
I'm gonna get the job done, I'mgonna do what I need to do, but
I also have to tell you that I'mgonna honor and respect other
(22:45):
parts of my life and own that.
Nicole Donnelly (22:48):
Love that.
I remember I had a job when mykids were young and when I took
the job I told them up front.
I said you know, I would reallylove this job, but I don't
wanna work on these during thesetimes because I have little
ones at home.
Would you be willing to let me,you know, work around that?
And they did and it was reallywonderful.
I respected them that theyrespected me in that way, and it
(23:11):
was great for my family becauseI had those hours that I wanted
and needed with my kids and Iwas still able to do the job.
And I think what was reallycool is that that example showed
the rest of the company and therest of the people on the team.
I think that the leaders valuedthat work-life balance and they
(23:32):
valued the boundaries that theemployees were asking for.
So I was really like impressedby the leadership, that they
were willing to be flexible inthat way, and I think that's
something, as leaders, that'sreally important when you do
that.
Tony Martignelli (23:45):
Alan, don't be afraid to be an example for
your own leaders.
We often say, lead by example,but that doesn't mean that the
examples have to be from thepeople ahead of us.
It could be from the people whothey could be, from you, and
you could be setting an examplefor the CEO of your company by
being who you are.
Nicole Donnelly (24:04):
So inspiring for people to hear.
I think you don't need a titleto be a leader.
Yes, yeah, well, so cool.
Well, I remember in the episodethat we had the St Patrick's
Day episode, you sharedsomething that has just always
stuck with me about traditionand I wanted to talk a little
(24:25):
bit about that, and that is howdo you balance tradition with
change?
You know, the rate of change ishappening so quickly now within
organizations, and it's onlyespecially with AI and all of
these advances it's only goingto increase more rapidly.
So having a culture and anorganization that embraces
change is so critical.
(24:46):
But embracing change likesaying you embrace change and
actually embracing change isreally hard, because research
actually shows there's this biaswhere anytime someone's
presented with something new,the immediate reaction is
negative.
Right, like it's actually aproven scientific thing that you
know people are biased in thatway to react negatively to
(25:08):
change, and one of the thingsyou said in that episode that I
loved is, whenever you're goingthrough change, it's really
important to maintain thatthread of tradition through any
sort of change project ormanagement project, which I
think was so inspiring.
How do you recommend people goabout identifying what is the
tradition that's worth keeping?
(25:31):
You know, because obviously youdon't want to throw the baby out
with the bathwater, but youdon't want to.
You know, you know.
So how can people identify thetradition that's worth keeping
and keep that through thetransformation?
That's my first question foryou.
Tony Martignelli (25:44):
I love it and it really is.
When you're asking it now, ithas to be thinking about it,
maybe not differently, but in adifferent language, because with
my most recent book, I've beenthinking about how connection is
the core of everything that Ido, and it's connecting with our
stories, connecting withourselves and then ultimately
(26:04):
connecting with others.
And so when I think about howpeople do this in their
organizations, it starts withreally having a connection to
our past as a company, as anorganization, and saying to
yourself how do we ensure weknow what it is that we're about
?
What are we getting to thisbusiness?
(26:25):
For?
What did we start this business?
You know, initially, what wasthe purpose of our business and
how do we?
What are we gonna maintain aswe move forward While also
navigating a change situation,because people need something to
hang on to and so they need toconnect with the core of what it
is that you are as an identity.
(26:45):
So it's kind of like my identity.
I connect with the idea of beingan artist and that has
something that I hid for a longtime because I felt like it
wasn't acceptable in the worldthat I was in, and now I realize
that we can own an identity andwe should own our identity as
long as we want to, even if weno longer do the thing that we
(27:07):
wanna that we're doing, itbecomes part of us, it's
ingrained in us.
But we have to make sure weunderstand what it is that we
wanna own and stick with thatand say so.
If we're a company that says weare all about serving cancer
patients, we wanna make surethat every cancer patient lives
a more fulfilling life, that weadd days to their lives and make
(27:30):
it a quality life, and we maychange what area of cancer
development, of oncology we gointo, but ultimately what stays
the same is that we're gonna adddays to their lives.
The challenge that might happenis maybe navigating change
might look like, hey, we'rehaving to lay off some people
(27:50):
because we've had to cancel atrial or this trial didn't work
out, and that's change thatpeople sometimes will be like
this is not good and where arewe going Now we're letting these
really important people whohave been part of our journey go
and ultimately it's aboutsaying, hey, we're doing what we
can to make sure we'renavigating to that one thing
that's so important to usconnecting to what started us at
(28:13):
the beginning, adding days topatients' lives.
Nicole Donnelly (28:17):
That's such great advice that people can
apply to their organization thenindividually, like really
asking yourself to connect withmaybe the little girl or the
little boy and what was it thatreally inspired you as a child?
And going back and reallyunderstanding those things that
really lit you up and how canyou identify that and then stay
true to that with whereveryou're going with your career.
But in organizations, too, likethis is something that with one
(28:43):
of the accounts I was workingwith.
They decided to invest in ahuge e-commerce project and it
wasn't going well.
It was not going well at all,and so we had to take a step
back and do an actual customerneeds assessment and ask the
customers hey, what do you valueabout working with this company
?
What are the things that youlove about it?
(29:04):
What is the experience youwanna have?
What do you expect when youwork with us?
And we had these reallywonderful conversations with
them, one-on-one, to reallyunderstand that.
And then we also talked to theemployees to say what do you
love about working here?
What is it that you value thatyou bring to customers?
And it was so enlighteningthrough that experience.
I was very humbled by it becauseI realized that the reason why
(29:25):
it didn't work and why we weregoing about all wrong is I
wasn't listening to what it isthat people valued and really
holding onto that, and that wasthat they really valued the
personal, hands-on customerservice they were getting from
their sales rep, right, likethat was what the company had
been built on.
So if we were gonna invest ine-commerce, we had to position
this not as a threat or acompetition to the sales rep,
(29:46):
but like how can we support themthrough the process?
And so it was just like areally eye-opening experience
for me about everything you'rejust saying about how important
it is to really go back to whatthe company was built on, or
what you feel like youridentity's built on, and
whatever change you're gonnamake to your point.
If you stay true to that, thenyou're gonna be much more
(30:07):
successful to get people onboard and be excited about the
change because they're investedin it.
They're a part of it.
Tony Martignelli (30:13):
Yeah, the how can change, it's the why and the
core.
That still is the same inessence, until it isn't, and
then at that point you maybehave to make some more systemic
changes that let's look atBlockbuster, for example that
didn't really.
(30:34):
They had to go out of businessbecause they had no way to
continue to stay in operations.
Nicole Donnelly (30:41):
Yeah, so Well, you mentioned your book.
I'd love to talk a little bitmore about that.
You recently published CampfireLessons for Leaders and it was
built based on your podcast, Ibelieve, which all about like
kind of you mentioned earlier onthe show integrating your past
experiences into the present soyou can navigate through.
What was your goal in writingthis latest book, like what
(31:02):
inspired this, and what are youhoping people will walk away
once they read it?
What are you hoping they'llwalk away with?
Tony Martignelli (31:11):
Well, I'll start with a goal and I'll say
that, like the goal initiallywas man, I had so many amazing
conversations with people whojust filled me up with so much
joy, insights, so much you knowinspiration, and I wanted to
champion them and share theirstories with the world.
(31:33):
And I know that there's, youknow, the podcast is out there
but I wanted to do it in a waythat was really going to to
package it in the right way thatreally highlighted the, the
themes that showed up for me,and so I started to think about
this book as a container forsharing these big lessons for
(31:55):
people to to transform theirlives by looking at their own
journey of transformation, buthaving some people who ride
along with them, these storiesand examples from people who
have been through their ownjourney of transformation and
I've had experiences that areprobably not that different than
what we go through on a day today basis and allowing them to
(32:16):
be great examples of how tonavigate challenging situations
and flexion points, or what Icall them flash points, and
realizing that we're all goingthrough these on a day to day
basis and sometimes we just needsomeone else to to say, yeah, I
get you, I understand thatjourney and if you are willing
(32:38):
to take these steps, you can dothe same thing for yourself.
You can make sense and meaningout of your story and you can
use that as a lever to propelyou in the right direction.
Nicole Donnelly (32:50):
And I think that's a great sense of like
connection and community andthat, like you have, like a
community that you're buildinglike around this book.
That would be so cool.
Tony Martignelli (33:00):
It's funny you mentioned that.
So the in terms of communitywise, it's not exactly like you
know, I'm bringing a bunch ofpeople who are going to be
sitting in room together, but Iam doing a workshop that I'm
bringing into organizationscalled Campfires of connection,
which is basically a workshopthat allows others to come
together, create connection bygetting to share their stories
(33:25):
in a campfire setting, usingsome of the frameworks and
understandings of the book.
So so it is something that hasbeen the jump off point from the
book and it's funny how youwrite a book and it doesn't
necessarily just end when thebook is done.
It's just the start of reallyunderstanding what you've done.
You know, and that's where thiscame from this, this
realization that wow, like thisis how the work extends from the
(33:50):
book, is by bringing this intothe workplaces and helping
people to see how their ownstories and their collective
stories can be an impact.
In fact, that's how I end thebook is this idea that when I
originally wanted to create thepodcast which I had no
experience with podcasting atall I had envisioned creating
what's called divergent mindsdivergent minds, convergent
(34:14):
hearts, which is a space fordifferent thinkers to come
together and then get to knoweach other and leave feeling
connected at the heart, and sonow I think the time is for in
different branding.
Campfires of connection isbasically that, but it's it's
basically creating our ownlittle campfires of connection
(34:35):
to allow others to come together, share stories, share ideas and
help each other feel connectedmore, which we need more of in
the world.
Nicole Donnelly (34:45):
And so that's what we do, especially with more
and more people remotelyworking.
You know, organizations don'thave that like physical place
where they can.
I mean, there's something aboutphysically being in the room
with someone that you care about.
That, just yeah, there's.
It's the sensory experience.
I don't know how else toexplain it or describe it, but
there is a connection that comeswhen you can see and feel and
(35:07):
hear and smell someone that youcare about or that you're
working with.
That is just there's no wordsfor it.
And there you know if there'snothing that can replace that.
So, and as we have become moreseparate in that way, like we
are craving that more than ever,I gotta tell you.
I mean, like I was so thrilledto go to conferences and
actually be in person withpeople last, last year and just
(35:31):
to be, and it just cements thatconnection you have with each
other in our relationship.
So I think it's so beautifulthat you're going to bring that
into the workplace, becauseyou're absolutely right, we need
that as humans and asorganizations to help us be able
to do better work and to livemore creatively and work more
creatively.
So that's super cool.
Tony Martignelli (35:51):
And I love that you mentioned that the.
You know the sense of likebeing in person with people and
it's so much more than just thetalking, it's a, it's the you
know physicality of it all andyou know being able to hug
somebody who've been interactingwith online for maybe five or
six years and never met inperson.
You're like oh my gosh, you'rea real person.
Nicole Donnelly (36:12):
Exactly so true .
Tony Martignelli (36:13):
Oh.
Nicole Donnelly (36:14):
I love all of that.
You mentioned that there's aframework that you've noticed
for people that are kind ofgoing through these flash points
and trying to like integratewith house with their kind of
like current and future.
Can you give us a little sneakpeek or maybe like a little
teaser about like thisframeworks that people might
want to be like ooh, that youknow what's like a little nugget
(36:35):
we can hold on to that willwill help us understand a little
bit more about this.
Tony Martignelli (36:40):
I mean, I'll give you a little bit of a taste
, because it's a there's a lotto it and it's kind of a simple
framework.
But I mean, the starting pointis to have the lens to look at
things.
You know you want to start byentering your the view of how
you're looking at your stories.
As you know, there's a 3Cframework, which is curiosity,
compassion and connection.
And so curiosity about gettingcurious, about what it is that
(37:05):
has made you the person you aretoday and what are some of the
things that you've overlooked,what are the things that you may
want to have another look atalong your journey.
Compassion, don't judge yourself.
Like you know, we talked aboutimperfection and our journeys
through life are nothing shortof imperfection.
They could be defined asimperfection, because that's
(37:28):
what makes us human.
So, by by way of that, becompassionate about your, about
your own journey, the flaws, theflaws that you've stumbled,
those stumbling blocks havehelped you to learn.
And when we take leaps into newthings, we learn, we leap to
learn, and that is part of, youknow, becoming who we are.
And then the third C connectionis, you know, it's not just
(37:51):
about connecting with others,but it's also make the
connection between what you'reseeing and what you are
experiencing.
So how are you seeing aconnection between what you've,
you know discovered and whatyou're, you know, experiencing?
So maybe there's something youmight notice about how you're
showing up today.
That you've now seen is part ofwhat you had experienced as a
(38:15):
child.
What I've seen through a lot ofthe stories that I've discovered
, through the people in mypodcast and beyond, is that a
lot of the little things havebeen seen in us as children.
You know well one of my, one ofmy guests, you know, jeffrey
Shaw, who you might know, jeff,he's been a.
He's been self employed sinceday one.
He's used to sell eggs onSundays and Saturdays as a child
(38:40):
, and then he, you know,eventually now he's self
employed.
He's never been employed byanybody, so so it's really
remarkable, and in his storiesin the book it's really, it's
really fascinating.
But I think it's interestingwhen you think about how, like
the things that you did when youwere younger, they stick with
you throughout life.
Nicole Donnelly (39:01):
That's so true.
I mean, I gotta tell you I loveoysters.
I am obsessed with raw oysterson the half shelf, okay, and not
a lot of people are, I got totell you.
I have very few family orfriends that will enjoy the
immense pleasure that it is tohave a raw oyster from Prince
Edward Island or like theNorthwest.
(39:21):
And when I, when I ever I, eatan oyster, I try to explain this
to people.
So, like it's just this bigslimy piece of snot, like how
can you enjoy this oyster?
And I have to tell you like itis.
Every time.
I grew up in SouthernCalifornia, so I would go to the
all the time and I tell you,every time I eat an oyster it
takes me back to my childhoodand I feel like I'm at the beach
(39:44):
, playing in the water, justlike, oh my gosh, I'm getting
emotional, like just being free,you know.
So, like, every time I eat thatoyster it takes me there and
it's like a very like emotionalexperience for me, you know.
And it's even more cool when Iget to experience it with other
people who are like, like,really into, like it's a social
(40:05):
thing.
So I totally love and identifywith the fact that we do have
these childhood experiences thatreally, like they stick with, I
mean clearly stick with us andthey inspires.
But are you an oyster person,are we?
Yeah?
Tony Martignelli (40:20):
yeah, absolutely, I'm in the Northeast
, so of course we have.
We have the best oystertogether.
Nicole Donnelly (40:26):
Someday.
We're gonna meet in person.
I'm gonna give you a big hugand I'm gonna enjoy that like
being in person with you, andwe're gonna sit down and have
raw oysters on the half shelland it's gonna be amazing.
Tony Martignelli (40:38):
Bring it on.
Nicole Donnelly (40:41):
That'd be amazing.
Oh my gosh, so I can't.
I just can't wait for thepeople listening to be able to
read this book that you'vewritten.
It's you know, it's somethingthat I know that has been a
passion project of yours formany years, with all the guests
that you've had on your show,and I bet it's like so rewarding
for you to be able to see itcome to life and to be able to
celebrate their stories, andwhat an inspiration that will be
(41:04):
for so many people.
I'm just really excited for you.
Tony Martignelli (41:07):
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.
Nicole Donnelly (41:11):
Man, this has been so much fun.
I didn't know I was gonna startcrying.
I shouldn't know that though,it's Tony, because you just
bring that out like you.
Just you have.
I would say, like you have thisability to just really explain
this, tony, you, there's safetywith you.
Like people feel like they canbe safe and be who they, are and
(41:33):
just really let down, andthat's a beautiful gift.
So.
I thank you for you know,bringing that always to every
conversation that we have.
It's really wonderful so.
Tony Martignelli (41:44):
I'm gonna have to make that into the.
I put the Barbara Walters, anelement of Barbara Walters,
inside of me.
You know, people cry, you know,in a good way.
Nicole Donnelly (41:54):
Who knew?
I honestly had no idea I wasgonna be crying talking about
oysters today, but you broughtit out.
That was really cool.
So I know we only have a fewminutes left, but I would love
to talk just a little bit.
You talked a little bit abouthow I'd love to end the show and
just talk about the fact thatwe all make mistakes, and that's
one of the core themes of thepodcast is, we all have our
(42:15):
tales of misadventure asentrepreneurs, as business
leaders.
There's always going to bethose times.
We're going to fall down andmake mistakes, sometimes big and
sometimes small, and it hurts,it does not feel good.
Can you really painful?
Do you have any like specificexamples of maybe miss a
misadventure in your ownentrepreneurial journey?
Or do maybe not even as anentrepreneur, but just in your
(42:37):
journey?
That was a really difficultmistake that you kind of had to
overcome and get past.
What got you through and whatwas that experience like for you
?
Tony Martignelli (42:49):
Yeah, I'm going to share one, that is, it
has a lot to do with holding agrudge with somebody who I
worked with.
And so I worked with somebodywho was super talented, she was
so great and for some reason,the two of us just didn't see
eye to eye and it went on for solong and it felt like we
(43:09):
constantly were at odds and youknow, it was challenging.
It created a very challengingsituation because we reported to
the same person and it feltlike we were always trying to
one up each other and and andyeah, it created a toxic
environment and it was tough forme because I didn't want that
(43:33):
to be the case, but it justbecame that.
And when I realized is thateventually we, we started to
have a conversation about it andsaid, hey look, we've got to
overcome this, We've got toovercome this challenging
situation.
And I thought it was just a oneway thing.
I thought it was just me, youknow, feeling like you know
there's something wrong with theway that I was being portrayed
(43:56):
by her or there's something, butit was both ways.
We felt kind of like triggeredby each other.
But what I realized through thiswhole situation is that once we
had a conversation and startedto really understand that we're
both good people, we both wantthe right things and if we just
talk more, we could actuallyovercome that.
(44:16):
And it has me thinking about alot of the things we do today
where, oftentimes, like we makeup stories in our heads about
people we see online.
We see people who are like youknow, knocking out of the park
or they're you know.
You feel like, oh, I reallyhate that person for being so
great, you know.
But the reality is, have youever talked to them and asked
(44:36):
them about, like, what's theirjourney, who are they and what
are they all about?
Hey, maybe it's.
Maybe they're the next personyou're going to collaborate with
.
So I share this story because Ifeel like it has this at the
center of it all.
It's like stop getting in yourown way and start having
conversations, the mostdifficult conversations you can
(44:58):
have, because it could be theone that opens the door to the
most beautiful relationship youcould have.
Nicole Donnelly (45:05):
Oh, that is so beautiful.
I think we can all relate tothat, that experience of having
difficult relationships in theworkplace.
We all, because we all have weall come with different work
styles and the way that we seethe world and different
perspectives, and they're andthat's a beautiful thing.
It's beautiful, for example,that like, for example, me, I
(45:26):
tend to be very macro.
Okay, I want to be up here inthe sky thinking about the
vision and the big picture, andif you ask me to get down into
the weeds, I'm not going to behappy and I'm not going to do it
.
Very well, you know.
But then there are other peoplethat just like to live down
there, right, and so if you'reworking people like that, it's
like it's and you have thatdifference, it's hard.
Sometimes there can be atendency to butt heads in all of
(45:49):
those different ways.
So I think that's such abeautiful example of just like
having more conversations ratherthan just letting it be that
way.
I guess I don't know, yeah,yeah.
Tony Martignelli (46:00):
letting it fester, or letting it just be,
continue to be a thing thatcontrols you as opposed to
releases you which I think is animportant way to think about it
is that the only person who'ssuffering is you.
Nicole Donnelly (46:14):
And who's suffering is you.
That is such a great lesson inforgiveness, right?
I mean there's.
There's a beautiful quote I'mgoing to botch it about how you
know, forgiveness is not reallyfor the other person, it's for
you, for you to feel like apiece and everything.
So what a beautiful example.
Thanks for sharing it, tony.
This is such a wonderful, oh mygosh, can we come into a park
(46:36):
to believe, come into a park, tothat be so far Absolutely Any
day you in person with oysters.
Tony Martignelli (46:44):
Yes, that's happening.
I'll bring the oysters.
Nicole Donnelly (46:47):
Yeah, that's so cool, but yeah, this has been
such a delight.
I just want to thank you forcoming on the show and is there
anything that you'd like toshare with our guests.
I'm something new that's up andcoming for you when you
workshops or anything that youlove to talk about the three.
Tony Martignelli (47:02):
Um, nothing much.
My dogs are excited aboutsomething I don't know, but I
will say the one thing I willshare is just my website and
place to if you can find me isis I purpose partnerscom.
I try to shorten the web URL alittle bit, so I think go check
out there.
You can find out more about thebooks, the podcast and
everything, and they're cheeringfor you.
Nicole Donnelly (47:28):
Yeah, they're excited to that.
Sounds wonderful, but yeahthat's that's.
Tony Martignelli (47:32):
That's what I'll leave.
It is that you know.
Come check me out and um, yeah,happy to have a chat.
Nicole Donnelly (47:37):
Everyone out there.
If you get a chance to readTony's latest book and listen
into his podcast, I hope thishas just given you a really
awesome sneak peek on what anincredible leader Tony is and
all the great work that he'sdoing just helping people live
authentically and intentionallyand with purpose and be able to
create and identify their owninternal masterpiece.
So thank you so much forjoining us today for another
(48:00):
episode of tales of misadventure, where we talked to amazing
entrepreneurs like Tony and helpthem learn, help them share
their stories about they turnedlemons into lemonade, and so we
look forward to seeing you onanother episode of the show.
Introduction (48:15):
Tales of Misadventure is produced, edited
and moderated by Julie Bacellowith Bacello Media, music by
Marcus Way.
Special thanks to our amazingguests and the entire DMG
digital team.
Visit us at dmgdigitalio to getaccess to all our podcast
interviews and other helpfulresources, and if you'd like to
get updates on the latest andgreatest, please sign up for our
(48:36):
email newsletter.
We'll see you next time foranother episode of Tales of
Misadventure.
Until then, keep fallingforward.
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