June 4, 2022 • 42 mins
Christine and JJ just couldn't fit all of their Star Wars talk into a single episode, so today they circle back in their X-Wing to describe ships in the Star Wars universe. Then, having started the new Obi Wan Kenobi series, Christine and JJ go deep on the visual details that inline description doesn't quite have time for: visual parallels, hidden clues, and quickie cameos. Spoiler warning! And nerd alert, too!
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Episode Transcript
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JJ Hunt (00:03):
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ Hunt
Christine Malec (00:27):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:28):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashed out in description richconversations
Christine Malec (00:47):
Welcome to episode two of our talk about
Star Wars and spoiler alert, ifyou're going to watch Obi Wan,
and you haven't yet, you mightwant to press pause and wait,
because there will be. Yeah,spoiler alerts, I'm giving
spoiler alerts right now. Andso, I watched the first episode
(01:09):
yesterday. And so I have somespecific questions that we're
going to Yeah, we're gonna havea ranging conversation because
we've never actually done thiswhere, you know, one episode of
something new and it's audiodescribed and so then we can
dive deeper. So I'm prettyexcited because I think this is
going to be a unique way to havea conversation. But where we
(01:30):
left off on our first talk aboutStar Wars was about ships and
both of us acknowledging thatscience fiction in general, the
real world but especially StarWars, riddled with groovy ships,
interesting spaceships and soone of the first scenes I think,
JJ in the first episode is TheInquisitor ship sort of landing
(01:53):
and looking quite menacing. Soshall we start with some talk
about the ships?
JJ Hunt (01:57):
Yeah, let's talk about ships. So that's a great scene
by the way, that was sobeautifully shot with this, this
black Inquisitor ship and Idon't think it's been named yet
this trend Inquisitor transportship, it flies over Mos Eisely
which is, you know, a citythat's well explored in in the
(02:17):
book of Boba Fett, desert cityand tattooing. And this Black
Ship it's got a sharp kind ofprolonged nose and it flies very
slowly over Main Street. And itlooks so predatory as it cruises
right along I heard onebreakdown video they talked
about the fact that the prongsthe nose looks almost like the
(02:40):
the open mouth of Pac Man readyto gobble up the people who are
standing on the street belowlooking up such a great kind of
opening to to that series andyou know, a rival on tattooing.
But let's talk ships in generalin the Star Wars universe. Which
one do you want to talk aboutfirst X Wing the Millennium
(03:02):
Falcon. What's what's what'syour favorite ship, Chris?
Christine Malec (03:04):
Oh, let's go for the Millennium Falcon is so
storied.
JJ Hunt (03:07):
It's classic. The Millennium Falcon really is the
number one ship in this series.
So it's a big, like it's a disklike a pie plate shaped disk.
And it's got a prolonged nose atfront. So two kind of pointy
parts that come out the front.
And it's got one little sidewing with a with a with a small
(03:29):
cage that kind of looks like thekind of cage you would put on
the snout of a dog to keep themfrom from biting or barking. And
that's kind of off to the side.
That's actually the cockpit sothe cockpit isn't front and
center cockpits not on top, thecockpits off to the side, which
is kind of interesting. Sothat's the general shape of the
ship. And what's amazing aboutthe Millennium Falcon is that it
(03:49):
really does look like a shipthat has been pieced together.
There were bits stuck all overit. There's like a radar dish
over here. And then there's thegunners turret that sticking out
over here. And all of the panelson the ship are different.
They're all individuallyrendered. So it really does look
(04:10):
kind of like a patchwork likeOh, at some point, there's a
blaster fire over here. So getanother sheet of steel and you
know, bolt it on over here andyou know, with the this blue on
this part of the ship, well, Ithink we can find one from a
junkyard and stick it on overhere. So it's kind of got that
real hodgepodge look to it. It'sgray and in steel with some
rusty parts. It's got a few kindof red markings here and there,
(04:35):
but it's not like superorganized. It looks like a bit
of a piecemeal ship, which ispart of its charm. And then when
it takes off it's again got thisdisc shape. And so right along
the edge of the disk at the backis where the lights or the
engine lights are so when itgoes wrong, it just speeds off
those glow blue and zips forwardfrom there, that's kind of the
(05:00):
way it travels.
Christine Malec (05:05):
How about the X Wing?
JJ Hunt (05:07):
So the X Wing is a longer ship, it's kind of got
more like... I used to lovefunny cars when I was a kid, I
don't know why it was like thisrocket cars that would like try
and break land speed records byzipping across the desert.
That's kind of the body of the XWing, really, really elongated
nose with like just a one kindof pilot spot right back and
(05:31):
center on the nose. So the pilotis behind a sheet of you know
sheet of glass essentially, andlooking at like a fighter pilot
and a fighter airplane. That'sthat's the basic design. And
then there's there's a spot for,for a droid to be sitting
exposed to the elements behindthe pilot seat. And then what
makes it an X Wing is thetraditional wings. That would be
(05:53):
if this was just an airplane andhad wings sticking out the side,
those wings sticking out theside split open. And when both
sides split open, you now havean X shape. across the back of
the ship. There's no tail likeon an airplane so you don't have
to tail with a fin steppingsticking up the back. You just
have the nose, his long nose,the X shaped wings when they
(06:17):
open up and then on both the topand bottom of the X Wing are
long like needle like blasters.
And just kind of sitting backand above the pilot's seat are
kind of big engines. So thisship is very much based on a
fighter jet model. And that'sthat's the way it operates. It
(06:38):
twists and turns it gets intodogfights that's the way the X
Wing operates. Whereas theMillennium Falcon is a bit is a
bigger ship. So it can it isvery skilled and and
maneuverable. But it's mostlyabout speed. The X Wing is very,
very, very nimble. I mean,truthfully, they make the
Millennium Falcon pretty nimble,too. And some of those great
(06:59):
battle scenes, the MillenniumFalcon is twisting and turning
and using the flat edge of itspie shape to flip back and
forth. But the X Wing is reallylike it gets into the dog
fights. That's what it's allabout.
Christine Malec (07:13):
The droid is not in the cockpit?
JJ Hunt (07:17):
No, the droid's actually outside so it's up in
behind and exposed. So when thatdroid is is seated in that spot,
the head are two D two, it'susually an R two unit is just
this this round droid head inspace. Um, yeah, it doesn't, it
(07:37):
doesn't have, it doesn't have acompartment around it for the
most part.
Christine Malec (07:42):
Other ships?
JJ Hunt (07:44):
So I mean, there's so many. So there's like the
Imperial class Star Destroyer.
These are where you're gettinginto the really massive ships,
you know, the classic Star Warsopening, where there's the
camera, so to speak, zips pastthe ship, or slowly passes the
ship or the ship slowly passesthe camera. So you get to run
(08:08):
the entire length of one ofthese massive ships. And it
gives you a sense of scale. Itgives you a sense of just how
vast and huge these things are.
And the destroyers are actuallybased on Navy ships, naval
destroyers, aircraft carriers,they're huge. And they're kind
of blade shaped. So they come toa very fine point. But again,
(08:31):
they're flat like a knife blade,and then they're kind of stacked
up on top. So there aredifferent tiers different levels
on top, and then there's a bigarray. So it really does look
like a like a naval destroyer.
But again, with a with a withmore of a blade shape appointed
blade shape. And the patchworkthat I described in the
Millennium Falcon, there is someof that it's not, it's not
(08:54):
piecemeal. But in order todemonstrate that this thing has
been built, it's not just amonolith, it has been built over
time you do when you're gettingclose in those initial those
opening shots from from any oneof the movies where they slowly
pan by one of these ships, youdo get to see the various
panels, the various componentsthat are stuck to the side and
(09:15):
that make up the hall. And thathelps add to your understanding
of how big this thing is becauseit's one piece after another
piece after another piece andyou go past one, you know a
array of weapons and then you gopast an array of you know what
look like satellite dishes, oneafter the other after the other
(09:40):
because these destroyers arehuge.
Christine Malec (09:46):
One more...
JJ Hunt (09:47):
Let's talk about the Mandalorian's ships because...
The Mandalorian was a greatshow. And and the ships were
good though. People really getinvested in these ships and so
for most of the Mandalorian thehe had the razor crest and the
razor crest was a great kind ofbulky ship that was a kind of a
(10:11):
I mean he was using it as atransport and he would you know
hold his His bounties in the inthis ship and it was kind of got
a bulky midsection. It's alittle bit capsule like in its
main body with the cockpit, highend up front with blaster
cannons on either side, and thenup in high in behind our two big
(10:34):
engine pods. And again, verypatchwork very kind of this is a
beat up ship. It's an oldership, intentionally older, like
they he needs it to be olderbecause it runs under radars and
whatnot. And it get piecemeal,dark gray patchwork steel rough
(10:56):
and ready and could bounce offof any surface it could, you
know, hit a you know, bounce offan asteroid and just keep
flying. That was the idea untilit got completely destroyed. And
so then the Mandalorian needed anew ship and he got what he's
been working toward and buildingand we haven't really seen an
action yet is a ship that'sbased on I think it was an N 1
(11:20):
Nabu Starfighter I think I'vegot that right. So this we
talked about this the the Nabudesign in the last episode,
very, very, very sleek and kindof working on like 1950s A
cruisers like 1950s car design,cars, these were part of the
(11:40):
prequel series, very, very, verysleek. This one's like got a
hammerhead shark look to thefront. So instead of the rocket
engines being up in the back,these ones are right forward
with with like a cross piece. Sothat's gives it the hammerhead
shark look, and then the andthen the engine pods taper into
these very, very, very finepoints. And so it takes this
(12:02):
design from the prequels, butthey were so sleek and sexy and
perfect in the prequels peoplegot me it didn't sit well with
everyone because they didn'thave that kind of piece together
rustic thing that people loveabout Star Wars. And so what
they did was they took one ofthese ships, and they said what
(12:22):
if they What if you know, theMandalorian with help from some
friends pieces this shiptogether. So now you have the
best of both worlds. You've gotthis really cool, very sleek
retro Hammerhead design, butit's cobbled together and so
you've got panels of steelpanels, like that kind of thing.
And it has the place for thedroid in the back you know just
(12:46):
behind and above the pilots thepilot seat, but this time they
did put a little dome on top ofit and that's where grow goo can
sit so instead of a droidsitting there his copilot is is
little baby Yoda is grow goo sosuper cute. And grow goo now
sits inside this, this podinstead of r two d two. That's
(13:09):
that's the the Nabu, n oneMandalorian star fighter or
whatever they're gonna call it Idon't think it's got a name yet.
Christine Malec (13:17):
Watching Obi Wan, having, you know,
participated in our firstepisode on Star Wars, I was
really heightened to thepatchwork quality and so I'm
thinking of examples on Tatooinelike they're cutting up a well
yeah, which is like a really19th century Earth, you know,
(13:42):
grubby thing next to droids andspaceships or, you know deserts
and riding on animals. But thenthere's right next to this high
tech and so it made melistening, you know,
participating in our episodelast time really sensitized me
to the so I'm interested intalking more about the worlds
(14:03):
and how they're made because thesort of grumpiness has become
definitely part of the charmthat I don't I did definitely
didn't appreciate until you andI talked about it a few weeks
ago, so the way that the chipsare packed because to me
spaceship means sleek, like StarTrek, you know, or Apollo
missions or something. Andthat's not what's happening
(14:26):
here. So you get the sort ofgrubby low tech, like people
selling pottery in a, you know,in an open market while a
spaceship is landing next tothem and that, that that
paradox, which maybe it'sparadox, maybe it isn't, but
it's so well done. And so i Itseems that an Obi Wan they're
continuing that aesthetic.
JJ Hunt (14:45):
Yeah, they absolutely are in doing a brilliant job of
it too. So again on tattooing,you've got these this, this
streetscape that is because it'sa desert planet. A lot of the
buildings are Are our adobebuildings very sand colored
everything is sand colored andsandy. So the same tan color of
(15:08):
the of the sandy streets is thecolor of the adobe buildings
with their which have roundeddoorways and domed roofs, their
dome rooftops and whatnot, avery classic desert
construction. And yeah, and thenyou've got like droids who are
also super Sandy and piecedtogether right like everything
(15:29):
on the planet, the awnings, thevendors, where's the clothing,
everything is covered in sand.
And what I found reallyinteresting about arriving on
tattooing is because those of uswho have watched the book of
Boba Fett really know tattooingnow and have spent a lot of time
in malls Isley, this this thecity, there was a sense of
visual familiarity. So it was Ilaunched right into the story I
(15:54):
launched I cared about the citywhen this ship, you know, this
Inquisitor ship is landing inthe street. I'm already caring
about it, because I know it. Ifeel comfortable there. I feel
familiar. And it looks real. Itdoesn't look like some space
age. Ooh, it looks tangible.
It's a desert city. It's adesert town. And I know these
(16:17):
people because I've seen them inthe book of Boba Fett. And if
not them, their ancestors, youknow, like it just felt really,
really at home there. But theother thing that's interesting
is this, though it carried overthis kind of patchwork piecemeal
thing carried over even intoAlderaan. So Alderaan This is
(16:39):
where young Leah is growing upas a princess having been
adopted by Baylor gonna play byJimmy Smits. And it's, in some
ways, it's a very sharp contrastto tattooing. So you know,
instead of being a desert liketattooing, Alderaan Is it our
first shot of is of this islandwith clear waters in the
(17:02):
foreground snowcapped mountainsin the background in this city
sized royal palace in between inthe palace is a series of tall
white and silver towers,everything's got smooth edges
and rounded tips. And verysleek, like probably as sleek as
anything we've seen in Star Warsreally slick and sleek and
(17:25):
everything is in in silvers andwhites. It's very, very clean,
lots of nature around again,you've got the weave, you've got
the waters and the in themountains, and they're even
there are some forest scenes.
And yet, when you get right inclose, when you've got a close
up or you're on one of the latlanding docks or you're in an
exterior shot, you can still seethat the towers are not seamless
(17:49):
modulates the paneling on theexterior is still discernible.
So there are some signs of agingin the structures. Some of the
exterior panels are slightlyimperfect and, and they have
minor color differences, whichwill tell you that some of those
panels have been replaced overtime, it doesn't look like the
(18:09):
Mandalorians razor crest or theMillennium Falcon, which is like
totally just patchwork butthere's subtle little
indications that these are stillstructures that someone had to
build. These aren't justdigitally rendered things and
again, it's not that no one hasever done this before. Like this
kind this attention to detail ispresent in other series
(18:31):
including in Star Trek by theway they also do this in the
most recent versions of theenterprise you can see this
paneling with the tiny littlebolt marks along the sides. But
in this series they do it veryvery very well.
Christine Malec (18:50):
Now I'm not to episode two yet but can we talk
about the urban landscape?
JJ Hunt (18:54):
Yeah, die you so die you is this kind of seedy urban?
I don't know if the whole planetis sometimes in sci fi. The
whole planet gets described inthe same way so I don't know if
it's like the whole planet islike this or if it's just the
city but die use like this HongKong Blade Runner vibe and
really drawing quite expresslyfrom both of those visuals. So a
(19:16):
lot of tall tall towers packedin tight just like Hong Kong and
the Blade Runner vibe. So it'sfilmed at night of course it's
always night in cities likethis. He never in a movie see
one of these cities like on abeautiful sunny day with a
breeze go. It's always night anda little bit rainy and a little
bit grimy, everything's grimy.
There's some smog or mist that'shanging in the air. In fact,
(19:40):
when the Starliner comes in whenObi Wan flies into the city on a
Starliner they have to fly rightthrough this blanket of kind of
greenish smog that hangs in theair really gross. And then you
get down into the streets andyou know very very tall
buildings and vertical neonsigns on the sides of all of the
(20:02):
buildings, again, very HongKong, more so than even
Shanghai. It's seedy and dark.
And almost all of the lightthat's in this city is provided
by the neon signs that are onthe outsides of buildings. So
that means that there's always agreenish glow or a reddish glow,
(20:24):
or a yellow glow. It's neverjust a, you know, a straight
street light over, you know,lighting up a square, it's
always these colors, thesetinted lights that are coming
from the sides of buildings, notdirectly overhead really has an
impact on the way that city is,is visually presented to us.
Christine Malec (20:43):
Now our podcast is not a place for discussing
the nuances of how audiodescription is done. But having
just watched episode one, therewas a couple of things that
stuck out for me. Because youand I had talked about this a
few weeks ago. And they werekind of about how characters are
described and identified. So thebounty hunter, the female bounty
(21:05):
hunter, I was pretty sure Iremembered that she was an
African American woman, a blackwoman, but the description
didn't identify that and thenlater, there was instances where
there were aliens and thedescriber use the pronoun she,
which I liked, but I wasn't sureif it was based on anything, or
(21:27):
just a decision not to use thepronoun here, because that's
what people default to. And soit I don't know if I even have a
description related questionhere. But it just made me think
about the difference in the waysthat audio description gets
written. And I felt like I waskind of watching a bit of
evolution of audio description,writing, because there were some
(21:48):
word choices that were to me...
unusual. Were you checking outthe audio description from a
describers point of view andnoticing any of that stuff, too?
JJ Hunt (21:59):
Yeah, I didn't watch the entire thing with audio
description I watched I watchedit first without but then when I
was writing my notes, I wentback and forth and watched
certain scenes with audiodescription, in part because I
wanted to make sure I wasaligning my description with the
way people would have beenhearing it if they were using ad
as they were watching it. Butalso because I'm really curious,
(22:19):
I want to know how it was beingwritten and what was what was
working. And yeah, I noticed afew of those things to the
sometimes i the language of thedescribers sounded a little bit
like the language of the Jedi, alittle bit formal and a little
bit a little bit flowery. I'mnot sure if that was a choice to
be in line with the language ofthe Jedi, or the speech patterns
(22:44):
of the Jedi. It's funny, Ihadn't noticed that they didn't
mention skin tone with I thinkit's Riva the third sister.
That's yeah, yeah. And that'simportant. I mean, it's
important for a number ofreasons. Obviously, we've talked
about the need to be describingskin tone, and, and so forth, to
(23:04):
make sure that those thatrepresentation is passed along
to description users. It's alsopotentially very important
because our very first scene,the very first scene of the
whole series after the recap, westart on correspond at night,
and we pull back from the city,which is you know, we see the
lights of the city flickeringaway, and we pull back from
(23:25):
there, onto a terrace wherethese youngling's are practicing
martial arts with a rope Jedi.
And the very first person thatgets any screentime the very
first person that's on screen isone of these young Ling's and
one of these young in thisyoungling is a young black girl,
a young woman of color.
Christine Malec (23:47):
Gasp! Oh!
JJ Hunt (23:48):
And what we know is that the Inquisitors are force
sensitive, or former Jedi whohave been flipped to the dark
side. And so it's possible thatthis is absolutely nothing. It's
possible that this is just somekid of color who is, you know,
not an extra but has this smallrole in this show. And it has
(24:11):
nothing to do with Riva, butit's possible given the similar
skin tone, given the similarbody bill like you know, body
shape, and the fact that this isthe very first person who is on
screen in this series. It'spossible that that's Riva. And
we're going to get in futureepisodes, some kind of flashback
(24:32):
to her being... what she mightfeel is not protected by the
Jedi and that has led her downthis path.
Christine Malec (24:41):
Right!
JJ Hunt (24:41):
So to not describe skin tone in that moment, might might
become a problem. Interesting.
You mentioned that some of thealiens are described as she
using that pronoun. That'sinteresting. I wonder if in
those moments there may Makingthe describer is making a
judgment call based on thescene. And in the dynamic, or
(25:03):
it's quite possible that thosedescribers are getting scripts
and notes from, you know, eitherDisney or the production company
that tells them because again,this is like the lore on these
things. Star Wars is designedsuch that every race of every
character is known, thebackstory is known some of these
(25:26):
characters are named, eventhough they're only in a shot
for a second. So it's possiblethat there's some kind of
information that's been passedto the describer. I honestly
don't know.
Christine Malec (25:40):
I'm going on a tiny tangent here, but I can't
help it. I've been getting extrasensitized to describers using a
first name or a last name. Andwhen what I'm noticing, and I
don't think it's just myfeminist lens, women characters
are more likely to be referredto by the describer. With their
first name, male characters aremore likely to be referred to by
(26:03):
the describer with their lastname, and I've tried to be
objective as I can, and I don'tthink it has to do with how the
other characters talk aboutthem.
JJ Hunt (26:12):
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's an interesting one, too.
And that has been a default Icertainly know, especially in my
early days, that was probably apattern that I fell into.
There's also often good guys arefirst name, bad guys are last
name. That often gets used.
Christine Malec (26:33):
Ooh, I never noticed that.
JJ Hunt (26:34):
Yeah. And sometimes that's an intentional choice.
There's also some idea that Rivais being called Riva, not the
third sister by the othercharacters within the piece.
Because they don't have as muchperhaps they don't have as much
respect for her. Perhaps she'ssome kind of foundling or
something like that. And that'sone of their ways of being
(26:54):
dismissive of her.
Christine Malec (26:56):
I thnk they call her third sister.
JJ Hunt (26:58):
They do. They mentioned it a few times, but they also
call her Riva quite a lot.
Christine Malec (27:02):
Yeah.
JJ Hunt (27:02):
We're only two episdes in at this point. But these are,
this is how it like juicy, everylittle detail is.
Christine Malec (27:09):
Yes, yes!
JJ Hunt (27:09):
Visual, audio. It doesn't matter. We're hanging
on everything!
Christine Malec (27:13):
Right. So what did you, while watching it, what
kinds of stuff did you see thatyou thought "Oh, man, the
describer just doesn't have timeto describe that groovy thing?!"
JJ Hunt (27:22):
Yeah, there's a lot and like, it's such describing can
be so tough, because you'reweighing a lot of different
things. And you know, describerswhen they're trying to do
something like a star wars whereeverything has meaning. It is
it's it's impossible. You can'tget it all in.
Christine Malec (27:39):
No pressure, eh? Star Wars!
JJ Hunt (27:41):
I know! It's only Star Wars!
Christine Malec (27:42):
You know you're going to be under a microscope,
JJ Hunt (27:42):
Oh my God, I really feel for them
Totally. And they did agreat job. Like there's lots of
right!?
elements that they I think theydid brilliantly, yes, that they
picked up on that I was reallyimpressed by. But in line
description in general, just asnot particularly well designed
to do things like describeworlds, to break down moments or
(28:02):
to find all those little hiddendetails and cameos. Right. So
there's some elements of thecinematography, I think that are
worth talking about. There'ssome elements of like those,
those little cameos and thoselittle details we can get into.
But like in terms of thecinematography, for example,
some of the things that thedescription couldn't possibly, I
(28:25):
mean, that's I shouldn't saythat. It's not that they can't
convey it, they can and do thedescribers did a good job of
conveying as best they canwithin the constraints of inline
Christine Malec (28:35):
What a nightmare.
description. But you know, wegot this opportunity, let's
Gosh. One ofthe things I thought the
break it down a little bit more.
So that that first shot that weyou know, on chorus on that we
talked about, where we pull backfrom the city at night onto the
terrace, past the, theyounglings, who are practicing
martial arts with a robe, Jedi.
(28:56):
It's a very smooth trackingshot, as calm and tranquil as
the music is, as we pull awayfrom the city over this
terrorists pass these younglingsvery smooth, visually very
smooth. And then the clonetroopers arrive, and they open
fire and everything changes. Andwhat happens is the camera
reveals itself to be handheld orat least simulating handheld
(29:19):
camera. So our point of view orfield of view really starts to
shake, it moves around a littlebit, we become instead of being
smooth camera tracking, wesuddenly start to shake and we
move around. And this makessighted viewers really anxious,
and it puts us right in thescene. And the youngling's are
kind of quickly hide behind theJedi. But the staging of this
(29:43):
means they're hiding behind theJedi toward us. So these
younglings gather all around us.
And it gives us the point ofview of either being one of the
younglings or someone who ismeant to protect them because
they've all gathered around infront of us. Either way, it's
super engaging Right, it puts usright in the scene, then the
Jedi leads us into the corridor.
(30:06):
And from there kind of the restof this battle and attempted
escape, it appears to be asingle, unbroken shot. And so
visually, this adds to theurgency, it makes us feel like
we're one of the kids trying toescape in real time. It's also
kind of like, like war footage,if you've got a journalist who's
embedded in a battle situation,it's very much like this.
(30:30):
There's battle going on allaround, and the journalist is
trying to film whatever theycan. It's got that kind of feel
to it. So it's really, reallyeffective, in fact, so
effective, that even thoughthere's no violence toward the
children that's depicted onscreen, we don't see any of
these kids get hurt. Disneyactually released a content
(30:52):
warning, because this episodewas being released within days
of the most recent schoolshooting in Texas. Oh, God, and
they were worried that the thisattack on a school attack on
school kids, it was soeffectively shot that people
would would connect those twothings. And yeah, so they
released a content warning aboutthat in advance.
(31:16):
describer did well, in the firstepisode was the the animal that
Obi Wan rides and how its legsare jointed in an unusual way. I
really enjoyed that. Thedescriber picked up picked up on
that and kept kept reiteratingit just because the audience
kept seeing it. Yeah, I'm sureyou go. Oh, that's cool.
JJ Hunt (31:34):
Yeah, that was really I think, then she talked about
like, the front legs hinged out,and the back legs hinge the
opposite direction. Theymentioned that.
Christine Malec (31:43):
Yes, Yeah.
JJ Hunt (31:45):
And it's interesting that you point out that you
heard it mentioned over and overagain, because this is another
brilliant thing that they did,that the cinematographers did.
And then the describers pickedup on and conveyed it, you know,
really well. So the fact is ObiWan in this series, the last
time we saw Obi Wan, he was likeone of the world's greatest Jedi
(32:06):
as a leader in that in thatcommunity. It's hyper skilled.
And now we're coming back tohim. And he's kind of a broken
man. And he's broken because of,you know, years of monotonous
hiding. And they need to conveythat in like the first half
episode, they don't want us tohave to watch him live a
(32:27):
monotonous bored life forepisode after episode, because
that becomes boring for us, theyneed to convey that quickly. And
one of the ways they convey itvisually, is not only by
repeating the same kinds ofscenes over and over again, but
they actually repeat the sameshots over and over again, kind
of beat by beat. So the shot isthe same, the editing is the
(32:49):
same, the pace is the same. Sothis part where he's he's part
of the crew that's butcheringmeat from that sand whale. And
he bundles a slice of meat thathe that he steals every day he
rides home on the barge feedsthat camel like Ethiopia, I
think it's called. Those momentsare repeated shot for shot.
Exactly. And that visuallydrives home the repetitive
(33:12):
nature of his existence. And thedescriber very wisely and
clearly it worked it like youpicked up on this. Yeah, they
repeat the same phrases.
Exactly. So that descriptionusers get that same sense of
repetition. Yes, yes. So thatit's a comparable experience. So
brilliant that they did it and Ilove that you picked up on it.
Christine Malec (33:34):
And his sandy colored hair, she refers to the
scroll the narrator there, thewriter used it in the
description several times to andwhen you like reiterate that in
the description, it was done.
But you did too, that everythingon the planet just looks the
same sandy color and so ithighlights how he is trying to
blend in like even His hairlooks. The same color is
everything. So the repetitionworked. We're totally where
(33:55):
there are other aspects ofworldbuilding our characters
that the describer just didn'thave time for.
JJ Hunt (34:03):
Oh, yeah. Another kind of cinematography element that I
thought was beautiful toestablish. Character and menace.
Riva is a really wonderful,menacing character, and they got
to make her do they have to makethis character, a match for Obi
(34:23):
Wan? Right away, and one of theways they make her menacing,
there's a great scene. Riva issearching for Obi Wan in this
cargo port. It's this warehousespace that he's hiding out in
really dark row after row ofcrates and cargo, and Riva is
stalking him slowly making herway down these aisles created by
(34:46):
these rows of crates, and shehas with her an Inquisitors
lightsaber. It's just adifferent design. It's not a
straight hilt. It has the shapeof an uppercase D with the hand
inside that uppercase D and it'sgot A red blade on it. And so as
Riva is stalking through thewarehouse, the red glow of her
(35:06):
humming lightsaber blade lightsher way. And because she keeps
this blade at waist height kindof either at her side or pointed
in front of her, it casts aneerie red glow on her face, kind
of like at a campfire, when aperson holds a flashlight under
their chin, under lighting, likecoming up the face is really
(35:27):
effective. It's super menacing.
And that glow of that redlightsaber is, again, most of
the lighting in that scene comesfrom this red glow. Super
Effective makes her I mean herperformance is great. She's got
a very menacing tone and verymenacing physical presence.
Yeah, assisted by great, greatdesign, great lighting design,
(35:49):
great cinematography, sometimesyou see the glow of the
lightsaber, making its way downthe rows of crates, you don't
even see her you just see theglow of the lightsaber. Super
effective.
Christine Malec (36:05):
So how about smaller scale details? Are there
cameos or little things that inthe end crowd would have would
have got if there was time fordescribing them?
JJ Hunt (36:14):
Yeah, and a lot of those details. And I did check
to see if there's any way thatthey're so small, they're so
tiny. In some cases, there's noway that the describers got time
they're trying to set a wholescene, and there's some
character in the background,it's virtually impossible to get
them in. So there's a there's onAlderaan there's an official
(36:37):
political reception. And at thatreception, both see Threepio and
Artoo D two are there in thebackground. So you don't I think
see three people might have beenmentioned, but not Oh, two d two
who's like, you know, servingdrinks or dance or something
like that. Yeah, they're just inthe background. There's one you
(36:58):
might have mentioned or mighthave picked up on this, this
panhandling Clone Trooper thatObi Wan gives credits to this
isn't the second episode,actually, this, this clone
trooper has a recognizablevoice. And in fact, the
description identifies him as afamiliar looking clone, which I
really like. Because it lets theaudience know that this familiar
(37:22):
voice does belong to a familiarface. But it doesn't take away
the fun of the discovery. Ah,and I will confirm here that
yes, indeed, that was to MaraMorrison, the actor who plays
Boba Fett, and Jango Fett, andkind of, you know,
theoretically, all of the clonetroopers, and it's him buried
behind this, this really scruffybeard in this, you know, the
(37:45):
wild hair in this grimy, grimyclone clone troopers uniform.
And he's he's been reduced to,you know, begging for credits on
the stream. And so they did agreat job of putting that
character in visually in a waythat an audience member would be
like, Oh, I totally recognizethat. And the voice is super
(38:05):
familiar. He's got a very, veryrecognizable voice. And the
describer did a great job kindof letting people know that that
was something to consider, butI'm not going to tell you
exactly what it is. Let let thediscovery be up to you. There
are a few other nice very likethe parallels, the visual
parallels because this is aprequel of sorts, right? This
(38:29):
story takes place in the middleof the greater Star Wars story
that we already know. They did avery nice job visually kind of
drawing parallels from one StarWars story to another and so
these Pod Racer goggles is amoment so at the early in the in
the episode in the firstepisode, Obi Wan goes to see the
(38:49):
moisture farm that young LukeSkywalker is living at with with
his uncle, Uncle...
Owen! Oh, and thank you. Gosh,how can I not remeber Owen.
Christine Malec (38:56):
Tee hee!
JJ Hunt (39:00):
And so Obi Wan goes to check in and from the distance
he hides in the rocks. And he,you know, picks up these
binoculars and he and hewatches. young Luke and young
Luke puts on these Pod Racergoggles and pretends to be
flying a Pod Racer or piloting aPod Racer, which of course is
exactly what his father Anakindid as a little kid put on these
(39:24):
Pod Racer goggles and Raisa podpod Pod Racer in just a little
visual moment that again likeit's, you don't you don't have
to be watching it to pick up onthat parallel but visually,
these the goggles which arethese kind of steampunk round
goggles that you know they getslipped on. It's a nice visual
(39:46):
link between the two the twostories. Number one were Ewan
McGregor has this like thiswonderful pensive gesture where
he gently brushes or tugs ortwists the hair of his beard at
the side of his chin and this Asa gesture pulled directly from
Alec Guinness, who played ObiWan Kenobi in the very first
Star Wars film, just a littlebrilliant acting gesture that
(40:08):
he's like, Well, if I'm going tocontinue if I'm going to grow
into Alec Guinness, I need tostart picking up on these
mannerisms. Now, that's abrilliant little little, you
know, acting detail. And thenwhen Obi Wan finds young Leia in
episode two, he goes after yourlair has been kidnapped, and he
goes after and finds her. Andthe moment he finds her, you
(40:30):
know, she's only 10 years old.
She's a very short little kid,and so to to kind of calm her
and reassure her that he's agood guy rescuing her, he leans
forward to talk to her and calmher. And his posture mirrors
exactly the posture of CarrieFisher's lair, in the hologram
that she will lay, send to AllahGuinnesses Obi Wan Kenobi when
(40:52):
she asks for his help, and thefirst Star Wars, oh, the same
posture. This it's very similarkind of blue lighting. They're
both wearing these kind ofcloaked costumes that have been
hanging sleeves, the posturesthe same, the lighting is the
same. The cloaked the costumes,very, very similar, lovely,
lovely little parallels that arebeing drawn. And not every
(41:13):
viewer is going to get to watchthat and remember, but there's,
you know, if you're either ahardcore fan, or just somewhere
in the back of your mind, like,that's familiar, great at
putting those things in.
Christine Malec (41:29):
What a challenge for a describer and I
it makes me wonder if the oneperson who wrote the description
was steeped in Star Wars lore orjust, you know, it was a job for
them. But yeah, what aresponsibility because it's so
storied and so mythologized.
It's such a big world.
We love making this podcast. Ifyou love hearing it, perhaps
(41:52):
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Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ Hunt
Christine Malec (00:27):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:28):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashed out in description richconversations
Christine Malec (00:47):
Welcome to episode two of our talk about
Star Wars and spoiler alert, ifyou're going to watch Obi Wan,
and you haven't yet, you mightwant to press pause and wait,
because there will be. Yeah,spoiler alerts, I'm giving
spoiler alerts right now. Andso, I watched the first episode
(01:09):
yesterday. And so I have somespecific questions that we're
going to Yeah, we're gonna havea ranging conversation because
we've never actually done thiswhere, you know, one episode of
something new and it's audiodescribed and so then we can
dive deeper. So I'm prettyexcited because I think this is
going to be a unique way to havea conversation. But where we
(01:30):
left off on our first talk aboutStar Wars was about ships and
both of us acknowledging thatscience fiction in general, the
real world but especially StarWars, riddled with groovy ships,
interesting spaceships and soone of the first scenes I think,
JJ in the first episode is TheInquisitor ship sort of landing
(01:53):
and looking quite menacing. Soshall we start with some talk
about the ships?
JJ Hunt (01:57):
Yeah, let's talk about ships. So that's a great scene
by the way, that was sobeautifully shot with this, this
black Inquisitor ship and Idon't think it's been named yet
this trend Inquisitor transportship, it flies over Mos Eisely
which is, you know, a citythat's well explored in in the
(02:17):
book of Boba Fett, desert cityand tattooing. And this Black
Ship it's got a sharp kind ofprolonged nose and it flies very
slowly over Main Street. And itlooks so predatory as it cruises
right along I heard onebreakdown video they talked
about the fact that the prongsthe nose looks almost like the
(02:40):
the open mouth of Pac Man readyto gobble up the people who are
standing on the street belowlooking up such a great kind of
opening to to that series andyou know, a rival on tattooing.
But let's talk ships in generalin the Star Wars universe. Which
one do you want to talk aboutfirst X Wing the Millennium
(03:02):
Falcon. What's what's what'syour favorite ship, Chris?
Christine Malec (03:04):
Oh, let's go for the Millennium Falcon is so
storied.
JJ Hunt (03:07):
It's classic. The Millennium Falcon really is the
number one ship in this series.
So it's a big, like it's a disklike a pie plate shaped disk.
And it's got a prolonged nose atfront. So two kind of pointy
parts that come out the front.
And it's got one little sidewing with a with a with a small
(03:29):
cage that kind of looks like thekind of cage you would put on
the snout of a dog to keep themfrom from biting or barking. And
that's kind of off to the side.
That's actually the cockpit sothe cockpit isn't front and
center cockpits not on top, thecockpits off to the side, which
is kind of interesting. Sothat's the general shape of the
ship. And what's amazing aboutthe Millennium Falcon is that it
(03:49):
really does look like a shipthat has been pieced together.
There were bits stuck all overit. There's like a radar dish
over here. And then there's thegunners turret that sticking out
over here. And all of the panelson the ship are different.
They're all individuallyrendered. So it really does look
(04:10):
kind of like a patchwork likeOh, at some point, there's a
blaster fire over here. So getanother sheet of steel and you
know, bolt it on over here andyou know, with the this blue on
this part of the ship, well, Ithink we can find one from a
junkyard and stick it on overhere. So it's kind of got that
real hodgepodge look to it. It'sgray and in steel with some
rusty parts. It's got a few kindof red markings here and there,
(04:35):
but it's not like superorganized. It looks like a bit
of a piecemeal ship, which ispart of its charm. And then when
it takes off it's again got thisdisc shape. And so right along
the edge of the disk at the backis where the lights or the
engine lights are so when itgoes wrong, it just speeds off
those glow blue and zips forwardfrom there, that's kind of the
(05:00):
way it travels.
Christine Malec (05:05):
How about the X Wing?
JJ Hunt (05:07):
So the X Wing is a longer ship, it's kind of got
more like... I used to lovefunny cars when I was a kid, I
don't know why it was like thisrocket cars that would like try
and break land speed records byzipping across the desert.
That's kind of the body of the XWing, really, really elongated
nose with like just a one kindof pilot spot right back and
(05:31):
center on the nose. So the pilotis behind a sheet of you know
sheet of glass essentially, andlooking at like a fighter pilot
and a fighter airplane. That'sthat's the basic design. And
then there's there's a spot for,for a droid to be sitting
exposed to the elements behindthe pilot seat. And then what
makes it an X Wing is thetraditional wings. That would be
(05:53):
if this was just an airplane andhad wings sticking out the side,
those wings sticking out theside split open. And when both
sides split open, you now havean X shape. across the back of
the ship. There's no tail likeon an airplane so you don't have
to tail with a fin steppingsticking up the back. You just
have the nose, his long nose,the X shaped wings when they
(06:17):
open up and then on both the topand bottom of the X Wing are
long like needle like blasters.
And just kind of sitting backand above the pilot's seat are
kind of big engines. So thisship is very much based on a
fighter jet model. And that'sthat's the way it operates. It
(06:38):
twists and turns it gets intodogfights that's the way the X
Wing operates. Whereas theMillennium Falcon is a bit is a
bigger ship. So it can it isvery skilled and and
maneuverable. But it's mostlyabout speed. The X Wing is very,
very, very nimble. I mean,truthfully, they make the
Millennium Falcon pretty nimble,too. And some of those great
(06:59):
battle scenes, the MillenniumFalcon is twisting and turning
and using the flat edge of itspie shape to flip back and
forth. But the X Wing is reallylike it gets into the dog
fights. That's what it's allabout.
Christine Malec (07:13):
The droid is not in the cockpit?
JJ Hunt (07:17):
No, the droid's actually outside so it's up in
behind and exposed. So when thatdroid is is seated in that spot,
the head are two D two, it'susually an R two unit is just
this this round droid head inspace. Um, yeah, it doesn't, it
(07:37):
doesn't have, it doesn't have acompartment around it for the
most part.
Christine Malec (07:42):
Other ships?
JJ Hunt (07:44):
So I mean, there's so many. So there's like the
Imperial class Star Destroyer.
These are where you're gettinginto the really massive ships,
you know, the classic Star Warsopening, where there's the
camera, so to speak, zips pastthe ship, or slowly passes the
ship or the ship slowly passesthe camera. So you get to run
(08:08):
the entire length of one ofthese massive ships. And it
gives you a sense of scale. Itgives you a sense of just how
vast and huge these things are.
And the destroyers are actuallybased on Navy ships, naval
destroyers, aircraft carriers,they're huge. And they're kind
of blade shaped. So they come toa very fine point. But again,
(08:31):
they're flat like a knife blade,and then they're kind of stacked
up on top. So there aredifferent tiers different levels
on top, and then there's a bigarray. So it really does look
like a like a naval destroyer.
But again, with a with a withmore of a blade shape appointed
blade shape. And the patchworkthat I described in the
Millennium Falcon, there is someof that it's not, it's not
(08:54):
piecemeal. But in order todemonstrate that this thing has
been built, it's not just amonolith, it has been built over
time you do when you're gettingclose in those initial those
opening shots from from any oneof the movies where they slowly
pan by one of these ships, youdo get to see the various
panels, the various componentsthat are stuck to the side and
(09:15):
that make up the hall. And thathelps add to your understanding
of how big this thing is becauseit's one piece after another
piece after another piece andyou go past one, you know a
array of weapons and then you gopast an array of you know what
look like satellite dishes, oneafter the other after the other
(09:40):
because these destroyers arehuge.
Christine Malec (09:46):
One more...
JJ Hunt (09:47):
Let's talk about the Mandalorian's ships because...
The Mandalorian was a greatshow. And and the ships were
good though. People really getinvested in these ships and so
for most of the Mandalorian thehe had the razor crest and the
razor crest was a great kind ofbulky ship that was a kind of a
(10:11):
I mean he was using it as atransport and he would you know
hold his His bounties in the inthis ship and it was kind of got
a bulky midsection. It's alittle bit capsule like in its
main body with the cockpit, highend up front with blaster
cannons on either side, and thenup in high in behind our two big
(10:34):
engine pods. And again, verypatchwork very kind of this is a
beat up ship. It's an oldership, intentionally older, like
they he needs it to be olderbecause it runs under radars and
whatnot. And it get piecemeal,dark gray patchwork steel rough
(10:56):
and ready and could bounce offof any surface it could, you
know, hit a you know, bounce offan asteroid and just keep
flying. That was the idea untilit got completely destroyed. And
so then the Mandalorian needed anew ship and he got what he's
been working toward and buildingand we haven't really seen an
action yet is a ship that'sbased on I think it was an N 1
(11:20):
Nabu Starfighter I think I'vegot that right. So this we
talked about this the the Nabudesign in the last episode,
very, very, very sleek and kindof working on like 1950s A
cruisers like 1950s car design,cars, these were part of the
(11:40):
prequel series, very, very, verysleek. This one's like got a
hammerhead shark look to thefront. So instead of the rocket
engines being up in the back,these ones are right forward
with with like a cross piece. Sothat's gives it the hammerhead
shark look, and then the andthen the engine pods taper into
these very, very, very finepoints. And so it takes this
(12:02):
design from the prequels, butthey were so sleek and sexy and
perfect in the prequels peoplegot me it didn't sit well with
everyone because they didn'thave that kind of piece together
rustic thing that people loveabout Star Wars. And so what
they did was they took one ofthese ships, and they said what
(12:22):
if they What if you know, theMandalorian with help from some
friends pieces this shiptogether. So now you have the
best of both worlds. You've gotthis really cool, very sleek
retro Hammerhead design, butit's cobbled together and so
you've got panels of steelpanels, like that kind of thing.
And it has the place for thedroid in the back you know just
(12:46):
behind and above the pilots thepilot seat, but this time they
did put a little dome on top ofit and that's where grow goo can
sit so instead of a droidsitting there his copilot is is
little baby Yoda is grow goo sosuper cute. And grow goo now
sits inside this, this podinstead of r two d two. That's
(13:09):
that's the the Nabu, n oneMandalorian star fighter or
whatever they're gonna call it Idon't think it's got a name yet.
Christine Malec (13:17):
Watching Obi Wan, having, you know,
participated in our firstepisode on Star Wars, I was
really heightened to thepatchwork quality and so I'm
thinking of examples on Tatooinelike they're cutting up a well
yeah, which is like a really19th century Earth, you know,
(13:42):
grubby thing next to droids andspaceships or, you know deserts
and riding on animals. But thenthere's right next to this high
tech and so it made melistening, you know,
participating in our episodelast time really sensitized me
to the so I'm interested intalking more about the worlds
(14:03):
and how they're made because thesort of grumpiness has become
definitely part of the charmthat I don't I did definitely
didn't appreciate until you andI talked about it a few weeks
ago, so the way that the chipsare packed because to me
spaceship means sleek, like StarTrek, you know, or Apollo
missions or something. Andthat's not what's happening
(14:26):
here. So you get the sort ofgrubby low tech, like people
selling pottery in a, you know,in an open market while a
spaceship is landing next tothem and that, that that
paradox, which maybe it'sparadox, maybe it isn't, but
it's so well done. And so i Itseems that an Obi Wan they're
continuing that aesthetic.
JJ Hunt (14:45):
Yeah, they absolutely are in doing a brilliant job of
it too. So again on tattooing,you've got these this, this
streetscape that is because it'sa desert planet. A lot of the
buildings are Are our adobebuildings very sand colored
everything is sand colored andsandy. So the same tan color of
(15:08):
the of the sandy streets is thecolor of the adobe buildings
with their which have roundeddoorways and domed roofs, their
dome rooftops and whatnot, avery classic desert
construction. And yeah, and thenyou've got like droids who are
also super Sandy and piecedtogether right like everything
(15:29):
on the planet, the awnings, thevendors, where's the clothing,
everything is covered in sand.
And what I found reallyinteresting about arriving on
tattooing is because those of uswho have watched the book of
Boba Fett really know tattooingnow and have spent a lot of time
in malls Isley, this this thecity, there was a sense of
visual familiarity. So it was Ilaunched right into the story I
(15:54):
launched I cared about the citywhen this ship, you know, this
Inquisitor ship is landing inthe street. I'm already caring
about it, because I know it. Ifeel comfortable there. I feel
familiar. And it looks real. Itdoesn't look like some space
age. Ooh, it looks tangible.
It's a desert city. It's adesert town. And I know these
(16:17):
people because I've seen them inthe book of Boba Fett. And if
not them, their ancestors, youknow, like it just felt really,
really at home there. But theother thing that's interesting
is this, though it carried overthis kind of patchwork piecemeal
thing carried over even intoAlderaan. So Alderaan This is
(16:39):
where young Leah is growing upas a princess having been
adopted by Baylor gonna play byJimmy Smits. And it's, in some
ways, it's a very sharp contrastto tattooing. So you know,
instead of being a desert liketattooing, Alderaan Is it our
first shot of is of this islandwith clear waters in the
(17:02):
foreground snowcapped mountainsin the background in this city
sized royal palace in between inthe palace is a series of tall
white and silver towers,everything's got smooth edges
and rounded tips. And verysleek, like probably as sleek as
anything we've seen in Star Warsreally slick and sleek and
(17:25):
everything is in in silvers andwhites. It's very, very clean,
lots of nature around again,you've got the weave, you've got
the waters and the in themountains, and they're even
there are some forest scenes.
And yet, when you get right inclose, when you've got a close
up or you're on one of the latlanding docks or you're in an
exterior shot, you can still seethat the towers are not seamless
(17:49):
modulates the paneling on theexterior is still discernible.
So there are some signs of agingin the structures. Some of the
exterior panels are slightlyimperfect and, and they have
minor color differences, whichwill tell you that some of those
panels have been replaced overtime, it doesn't look like the
(18:09):
Mandalorians razor crest or theMillennium Falcon, which is like
totally just patchwork butthere's subtle little
indications that these are stillstructures that someone had to
build. These aren't justdigitally rendered things and
again, it's not that no one hasever done this before. Like this
kind this attention to detail ispresent in other series
(18:31):
including in Star Trek by theway they also do this in the
most recent versions of theenterprise you can see this
paneling with the tiny littlebolt marks along the sides. But
in this series they do it veryvery very well.
Christine Malec (18:50):
Now I'm not to episode two yet but can we talk
about the urban landscape?
JJ Hunt (18:54):
Yeah, die you so die you is this kind of seedy urban?
I don't know if the whole planetis sometimes in sci fi. The
whole planet gets described inthe same way so I don't know if
it's like the whole planet islike this or if it's just the
city but die use like this HongKong Blade Runner vibe and
really drawing quite expresslyfrom both of those visuals. So a
(19:16):
lot of tall tall towers packedin tight just like Hong Kong and
the Blade Runner vibe. So it'sfilmed at night of course it's
always night in cities likethis. He never in a movie see
one of these cities like on abeautiful sunny day with a
breeze go. It's always night anda little bit rainy and a little
bit grimy, everything's grimy.
There's some smog or mist that'shanging in the air. In fact,
(19:40):
when the Starliner comes in whenObi Wan flies into the city on a
Starliner they have to fly rightthrough this blanket of kind of
greenish smog that hangs in theair really gross. And then you
get down into the streets andyou know very very tall
buildings and vertical neonsigns on the sides of all of the
(20:02):
buildings, again, very HongKong, more so than even
Shanghai. It's seedy and dark.
And almost all of the lightthat's in this city is provided
by the neon signs that are onthe outsides of buildings. So
that means that there's always agreenish glow or a reddish glow,
(20:24):
or a yellow glow. It's neverjust a, you know, a straight
street light over, you know,lighting up a square, it's
always these colors, thesetinted lights that are coming
from the sides of buildings, notdirectly overhead really has an
impact on the way that city is,is visually presented to us.
Christine Malec (20:43):
Now our podcast is not a place for discussing
the nuances of how audiodescription is done. But having
just watched episode one, therewas a couple of things that
stuck out for me. Because youand I had talked about this a
few weeks ago. And they werekind of about how characters are
described and identified. So thebounty hunter, the female bounty
(21:05):
hunter, I was pretty sure Iremembered that she was an
African American woman, a blackwoman, but the description
didn't identify that and thenlater, there was instances where
there were aliens and thedescriber use the pronoun she,
which I liked, but I wasn't sureif it was based on anything, or
(21:27):
just a decision not to use thepronoun here, because that's
what people default to. And soit I don't know if I even have a
description related questionhere. But it just made me think
about the difference in the waysthat audio description gets
written. And I felt like I waskind of watching a bit of
evolution of audio description,writing, because there were some
(21:48):
word choices that were to me...
unusual. Were you checking outthe audio description from a
describers point of view andnoticing any of that stuff, too?
JJ Hunt (21:59):
Yeah, I didn't watch the entire thing with audio
description I watched I watchedit first without but then when I
was writing my notes, I wentback and forth and watched
certain scenes with audiodescription, in part because I
wanted to make sure I wasaligning my description with the
way people would have beenhearing it if they were using ad
as they were watching it. Butalso because I'm really curious,
(22:19):
I want to know how it was beingwritten and what was what was
working. And yeah, I noticed afew of those things to the
sometimes i the language of thedescribers sounded a little bit
like the language of the Jedi, alittle bit formal and a little
bit a little bit flowery. I'mnot sure if that was a choice to
be in line with the language ofthe Jedi, or the speech patterns
(22:44):
of the Jedi. It's funny, Ihadn't noticed that they didn't
mention skin tone with I thinkit's Riva the third sister.
That's yeah, yeah. And that'simportant. I mean, it's
important for a number ofreasons. Obviously, we've talked
about the need to be describingskin tone, and, and so forth, to
(23:04):
make sure that those thatrepresentation is passed along
to description users. It's alsopotentially very important
because our very first scene,the very first scene of the
whole series after the recap, westart on correspond at night,
and we pull back from the city,which is you know, we see the
lights of the city flickeringaway, and we pull back from
(23:25):
there, onto a terrace wherethese youngling's are practicing
martial arts with a rope Jedi.
And the very first person thatgets any screentime the very
first person that's on screen isone of these young Ling's and
one of these young in thisyoungling is a young black girl,
a young woman of color.
Christine Malec (23:47):
Gasp! Oh!
JJ Hunt (23:48):
And what we know is that the Inquisitors are force
sensitive, or former Jedi whohave been flipped to the dark
side. And so it's possible thatthis is absolutely nothing. It's
possible that this is just somekid of color who is, you know,
not an extra but has this smallrole in this show. And it has
(24:11):
nothing to do with Riva, butit's possible given the similar
skin tone, given the similarbody bill like you know, body
shape, and the fact that this isthe very first person who is on
screen in this series. It'spossible that that's Riva. And
we're going to get in futureepisodes, some kind of flashback
(24:32):
to her being... what she mightfeel is not protected by the
Jedi and that has led her downthis path.
Christine Malec (24:41):
Right!
JJ Hunt (24:41):
So to not describe skin tone in that moment, might might
become a problem. Interesting.
You mentioned that some of thealiens are described as she
using that pronoun. That'sinteresting. I wonder if in
those moments there may Makingthe describer is making a
judgment call based on thescene. And in the dynamic, or
(25:03):
it's quite possible that thosedescribers are getting scripts
and notes from, you know, eitherDisney or the production company
that tells them because again,this is like the lore on these
things. Star Wars is designedsuch that every race of every
character is known, thebackstory is known some of these
(25:26):
characters are named, eventhough they're only in a shot
for a second. So it's possiblethat there's some kind of
information that's been passedto the describer. I honestly
don't know.
Christine Malec (25:40):
I'm going on a tiny tangent here, but I can't
help it. I've been getting extrasensitized to describers using a
first name or a last name. Andwhen what I'm noticing, and I
don't think it's just myfeminist lens, women characters
are more likely to be referredto by the describer. With their
first name, male characters aremore likely to be referred to by
(26:03):
the describer with their lastname, and I've tried to be
objective as I can, and I don'tthink it has to do with how the
other characters talk aboutthem.
JJ Hunt (26:12):
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's an interesting one, too.
And that has been a default Icertainly know, especially in my
early days, that was probably apattern that I fell into.
There's also often good guys arefirst name, bad guys are last
name. That often gets used.
Christine Malec (26:33):
Ooh, I never noticed that.
JJ Hunt (26:34):
Yeah. And sometimes that's an intentional choice.
There's also some idea that Rivais being called Riva, not the
third sister by the othercharacters within the piece.
Because they don't have as muchperhaps they don't have as much
respect for her. Perhaps she'ssome kind of foundling or
something like that. And that'sone of their ways of being
(26:54):
dismissive of her.
Christine Malec (26:56):
I thnk they call her third sister.
JJ Hunt (26:58):
They do. They mentioned it a few times, but they also
call her Riva quite a lot.
Christine Malec (27:02):
Yeah.
JJ Hunt (27:02):
We're only two episdes in at this point. But these are,
this is how it like juicy, everylittle detail is.
Christine Malec (27:09):
Yes, yes!
JJ Hunt (27:09):
Visual, audio. It doesn't matter. We're hanging
on everything!
Christine Malec (27:13):
Right. So what did you, while watching it, what
kinds of stuff did you see thatyou thought "Oh, man, the
describer just doesn't have timeto describe that groovy thing?!"
JJ Hunt (27:22):
Yeah, there's a lot and like, it's such describing can
be so tough, because you'reweighing a lot of different
things. And you know, describerswhen they're trying to do
something like a star wars whereeverything has meaning. It is
it's it's impossible. You can'tget it all in.
Christine Malec (27:39):
No pressure, eh? Star Wars!
JJ Hunt (27:41):
I know! It's only Star Wars!
Christine Malec (27:42):
You know you're going to be under a microscope,
JJ Hunt (27:42):
Oh my God, I really feel for them
Totally. And they did agreat job. Like there's lots of
right!?
elements that they I think theydid brilliantly, yes, that they
picked up on that I was reallyimpressed by. But in line
description in general, just asnot particularly well designed
to do things like describeworlds, to break down moments or
(28:02):
to find all those little hiddendetails and cameos. Right. So
there's some elements of thecinematography, I think that are
worth talking about. There'ssome elements of like those,
those little cameos and thoselittle details we can get into.
But like in terms of thecinematography, for example,
some of the things that thedescription couldn't possibly, I
(28:25):
mean, that's I shouldn't saythat. It's not that they can't
convey it, they can and do thedescribers did a good job of
conveying as best they canwithin the constraints of inline
Christine Malec (28:35):
What a nightmare.
description. But you know, wegot this opportunity, let's
Gosh. One ofthe things I thought the
break it down a little bit more.
So that that first shot that weyou know, on chorus on that we
talked about, where we pull backfrom the city at night onto the
terrace, past the, theyounglings, who are practicing
martial arts with a robe, Jedi.
(28:56):
It's a very smooth trackingshot, as calm and tranquil as
the music is, as we pull awayfrom the city over this
terrorists pass these younglingsvery smooth, visually very
smooth. And then the clonetroopers arrive, and they open
fire and everything changes. Andwhat happens is the camera
reveals itself to be handheld orat least simulating handheld
(29:19):
camera. So our point of view orfield of view really starts to
shake, it moves around a littlebit, we become instead of being
smooth camera tracking, wesuddenly start to shake and we
move around. And this makessighted viewers really anxious,
and it puts us right in thescene. And the youngling's are
kind of quickly hide behind theJedi. But the staging of this
(29:43):
means they're hiding behind theJedi toward us. So these
younglings gather all around us.
And it gives us the point ofview of either being one of the
younglings or someone who ismeant to protect them because
they've all gathered around infront of us. Either way, it's
super engaging Right, it puts usright in the scene, then the
Jedi leads us into the corridor.
(30:06):
And from there kind of the restof this battle and attempted
escape, it appears to be asingle, unbroken shot. And so
visually, this adds to theurgency, it makes us feel like
we're one of the kids trying toescape in real time. It's also
kind of like, like war footage,if you've got a journalist who's
embedded in a battle situation,it's very much like this.
(30:30):
There's battle going on allaround, and the journalist is
trying to film whatever theycan. It's got that kind of feel
to it. So it's really, reallyeffective, in fact, so
effective, that even thoughthere's no violence toward the
children that's depicted onscreen, we don't see any of
these kids get hurt. Disneyactually released a content
(30:52):
warning, because this episodewas being released within days
of the most recent schoolshooting in Texas. Oh, God, and
they were worried that the thisattack on a school attack on
school kids, it was soeffectively shot that people
would would connect those twothings. And yeah, so they
released a content warning aboutthat in advance.
(31:16):
describer did well, in the firstepisode was the the animal that
Obi Wan rides and how its legsare jointed in an unusual way. I
really enjoyed that. Thedescriber picked up picked up on
that and kept kept reiteratingit just because the audience
kept seeing it. Yeah, I'm sureyou go. Oh, that's cool.
JJ Hunt (31:34):
Yeah, that was really I think, then she talked about
like, the front legs hinged out,and the back legs hinge the
opposite direction. Theymentioned that.
Christine Malec (31:43):
Yes, Yeah.
JJ Hunt (31:45):
And it's interesting that you point out that you
heard it mentioned over and overagain, because this is another
brilliant thing that they did,that the cinematographers did.
And then the describers pickedup on and conveyed it, you know,
really well. So the fact is ObiWan in this series, the last
time we saw Obi Wan, he was likeone of the world's greatest Jedi
(32:06):
as a leader in that in thatcommunity. It's hyper skilled.
And now we're coming back tohim. And he's kind of a broken
man. And he's broken because of,you know, years of monotonous
hiding. And they need to conveythat in like the first half
episode, they don't want us tohave to watch him live a
(32:27):
monotonous bored life forepisode after episode, because
that becomes boring for us, theyneed to convey that quickly. And
one of the ways they convey itvisually, is not only by
repeating the same kinds ofscenes over and over again, but
they actually repeat the sameshots over and over again, kind
of beat by beat. So the shot isthe same, the editing is the
(32:49):
same, the pace is the same. Sothis part where he's he's part
of the crew that's butcheringmeat from that sand whale. And
he bundles a slice of meat thathe that he steals every day he
rides home on the barge feedsthat camel like Ethiopia, I
think it's called. Those momentsare repeated shot for shot.
Exactly. And that visuallydrives home the repetitive
(33:12):
nature of his existence. And thedescriber very wisely and
clearly it worked it like youpicked up on this. Yeah, they
repeat the same phrases.
Exactly. So that descriptionusers get that same sense of
repetition. Yes, yes. So thatit's a comparable experience. So
brilliant that they did it and Ilove that you picked up on it.
Christine Malec (33:34):
And his sandy colored hair, she refers to the
scroll the narrator there, thewriter used it in the
description several times to andwhen you like reiterate that in
the description, it was done.
But you did too, that everythingon the planet just looks the
same sandy color and so ithighlights how he is trying to
blend in like even His hairlooks. The same color is
everything. So the repetitionworked. We're totally where
(33:55):
there are other aspects ofworldbuilding our characters
that the describer just didn'thave time for.
JJ Hunt (34:03):
Oh, yeah. Another kind of cinematography element that I
thought was beautiful toestablish. Character and menace.
Riva is a really wonderful,menacing character, and they got
to make her do they have to makethis character, a match for Obi
(34:23):
Wan? Right away, and one of theways they make her menacing,
there's a great scene. Riva issearching for Obi Wan in this
cargo port. It's this warehousespace that he's hiding out in
really dark row after row ofcrates and cargo, and Riva is
stalking him slowly making herway down these aisles created by
(34:46):
these rows of crates, and shehas with her an Inquisitors
lightsaber. It's just adifferent design. It's not a
straight hilt. It has the shapeof an uppercase D with the hand
inside that uppercase D and it'sgot A red blade on it. And so as
Riva is stalking through thewarehouse, the red glow of her
(35:06):
humming lightsaber blade lightsher way. And because she keeps
this blade at waist height kindof either at her side or pointed
in front of her, it casts aneerie red glow on her face, kind
of like at a campfire, when aperson holds a flashlight under
their chin, under lighting, likecoming up the face is really
(35:27):
effective. It's super menacing.
And that glow of that redlightsaber is, again, most of
the lighting in that scene comesfrom this red glow. Super
Effective makes her I mean herperformance is great. She's got
a very menacing tone and verymenacing physical presence.
Yeah, assisted by great, greatdesign, great lighting design,
(35:49):
great cinematography, sometimesyou see the glow of the
lightsaber, making its way downthe rows of crates, you don't
even see her you just see theglow of the lightsaber. Super
effective.
Christine Malec (36:05):
So how about smaller scale details? Are there
cameos or little things that inthe end crowd would have would
have got if there was time fordescribing them?
JJ Hunt (36:14):
Yeah, and a lot of those details. And I did check
to see if there's any way thatthey're so small, they're so
tiny. In some cases, there's noway that the describers got time
they're trying to set a wholescene, and there's some
character in the background,it's virtually impossible to get
them in. So there's a there's onAlderaan there's an official
(36:37):
political reception. And at thatreception, both see Threepio and
Artoo D two are there in thebackground. So you don't I think
see three people might have beenmentioned, but not Oh, two d two
who's like, you know, servingdrinks or dance or something
like that. Yeah, they're just inthe background. There's one you
(36:58):
might have mentioned or mighthave picked up on this, this
panhandling Clone Trooper thatObi Wan gives credits to this
isn't the second episode,actually, this, this clone
trooper has a recognizablevoice. And in fact, the
description identifies him as afamiliar looking clone, which I
really like. Because it lets theaudience know that this familiar
(37:22):
voice does belong to a familiarface. But it doesn't take away
the fun of the discovery. Ah,and I will confirm here that
yes, indeed, that was to MaraMorrison, the actor who plays
Boba Fett, and Jango Fett, andkind of, you know,
theoretically, all of the clonetroopers, and it's him buried
behind this, this really scruffybeard in this, you know, the
(37:45):
wild hair in this grimy, grimyclone clone troopers uniform.
And he's he's been reduced to,you know, begging for credits on
the stream. And so they did agreat job of putting that
character in visually in a waythat an audience member would be
like, Oh, I totally recognizethat. And the voice is super
(38:05):
familiar. He's got a very, veryrecognizable voice. And the
describer did a great job kindof letting people know that that
was something to consider, butI'm not going to tell you
exactly what it is. Let let thediscovery be up to you. There
are a few other nice very likethe parallels, the visual
parallels because this is aprequel of sorts, right? This
(38:29):
story takes place in the middleof the greater Star Wars story
that we already know. They did avery nice job visually kind of
drawing parallels from one StarWars story to another and so
these Pod Racer goggles is amoment so at the early in the in
the episode in the firstepisode, Obi Wan goes to see the
(38:49):
moisture farm that young LukeSkywalker is living at with with
his uncle, Uncle...
Owen! Oh, and thank you. Gosh,how can I not remeber Owen.
Christine Malec (38:56):
Tee hee!
JJ Hunt (39:00):
And so Obi Wan goes to check in and from the distance
he hides in the rocks. And he,you know, picks up these
binoculars and he and hewatches. young Luke and young
Luke puts on these Pod Racergoggles and pretends to be
flying a Pod Racer or piloting aPod Racer, which of course is
exactly what his father Anakindid as a little kid put on these
(39:24):
Pod Racer goggles and Raisa podpod Pod Racer in just a little
visual moment that again likeit's, you don't you don't have
to be watching it to pick up onthat parallel but visually,
these the goggles which arethese kind of steampunk round
goggles that you know they getslipped on. It's a nice visual
(39:46):
link between the two the twostories. Number one were Ewan
McGregor has this like thiswonderful pensive gesture where
he gently brushes or tugs ortwists the hair of his beard at
the side of his chin and this Asa gesture pulled directly from
Alec Guinness, who played ObiWan Kenobi in the very first
Star Wars film, just a littlebrilliant acting gesture that
(40:08):
he's like, Well, if I'm going tocontinue if I'm going to grow
into Alec Guinness, I need tostart picking up on these
mannerisms. Now, that's abrilliant little little, you
know, acting detail. And thenwhen Obi Wan finds young Leia in
episode two, he goes after yourlair has been kidnapped, and he
goes after and finds her. Andthe moment he finds her, you
(40:30):
know, she's only 10 years old.
She's a very short little kid,and so to to kind of calm her
and reassure her that he's agood guy rescuing her, he leans
forward to talk to her and calmher. And his posture mirrors
exactly the posture of CarrieFisher's lair, in the hologram
that she will lay, send to AllahGuinnesses Obi Wan Kenobi when
(40:52):
she asks for his help, and thefirst Star Wars, oh, the same
posture. This it's very similarkind of blue lighting. They're
both wearing these kind ofcloaked costumes that have been
hanging sleeves, the posturesthe same, the lighting is the
same. The cloaked the costumes,very, very similar, lovely,
lovely little parallels that arebeing drawn. And not every
(41:13):
viewer is going to get to watchthat and remember, but there's,
you know, if you're either ahardcore fan, or just somewhere
in the back of your mind, like,that's familiar, great at
putting those things in.
Christine Malec (41:29):
What a challenge for a describer and I
it makes me wonder if the oneperson who wrote the description
was steeped in Star Wars lore orjust, you know, it was a job for
them. But yeah, what aresponsibility because it's so
storied and so mythologized.
It's such a big world.
We love making this podcast. Ifyou love hearing it, perhaps
(41:52):
you'll consider supporting itscreation and development by
becoming a patron. We've set upa Patreon page to help cover the
costs of putting the showtogether. You can contribute as
a listener or as a sponsor tohelp ensure that accessible and
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community. Visitpatreon.com/talk description to
(42:14):
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