August 27, 2022 • 42 mins
Talk Description to Me is hitting pause -- for the time being! To mark their final episode in this two-year run, Christine and JJ packed a picnic, hopped on a ferry, and headed to the Toronto Islands. Sitting on a park bench, facing the Toronto skyline, the two friends shared one last description-rich conversation before unplugging their mics for a spell.
To all of our listeners, thank you for taking this journey with us! Please stay subscribed so that you don't miss a moment when we plug back in!
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Episode Transcript
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JJ Hunt (00:03):
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:27):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:28):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashed out in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
JJ you and I are both dyed in the wool
Torontonians. And we love welove the city that we live in.
And right at this moment, we arein arguably both have one of our
favorite spots in the city,which is not quite in the city,
which is the Toronto Island. Andso we took a 15 minute ferry
ride who doesn't love a ferryride to get here. And this is a
(01:09):
place that's so special to bothof us for different reasons. But
it's also a good place fromwhich to talk about the city,
because you get picturesqueviews of the skyline and the
harbor and the port on theisland itself is just a little
speck of wonderfulness close tothe city, but you really feel
like you're not in the city. SoI'm going to situate where we
(01:30):
physically are at this moment sothat the audio soundscape makes
sense. We are facing the water.
There are some boats in front ofus that JJ will describe but I'm
mentioning them because you'llhear a little tinkling, which is
the rigging in the breeze. Andbehind us is a recreation a
little pathway where people andbikes go by. And it's it's a
(01:50):
lovely summer day. And so I justlearned recently that the so
Toronto is on the north side ofLake Ontario, so in Toronto
toward the water is alwayssouth. But the shore actually is
going from southwest tonortheast. I didn't know that
until recently. But So JJ, canyou with that in mind. Can you
(02:13):
describe if you were looking ata map like the big picture, how
does the island look, I heard itdescribed as shape like a
croissant.
JJ Hunt (02:22):
That's a good description of it. Yeah, a tasty
description and accurate. Yeah,if you're looking at it from
like overhead on a map, theisland is actually actually a
it's a chain of 15 smallislands. So it's not one
singular Island. And it is kindof croissant shape. And it is
got a bit of a curve to it. Andit is out from the main
(02:48):
shoreline of downtown Toronto.
So you're on down, you're indowntown Toronto, and you're
looking out, the islands arestraight ahead of you. If you're
over overhead, there's just kindof a little harbor between this
the string of islands that comesreally at points like when when
we you know one tip of thatcroissant curves toward the city
near the island, you know wherethe island airport is, it's
(03:10):
very, very close to themainland, like you could you
could easily swim. You know, Ican't remember what it is 100
feet 200 feet or something likethat it's very, very, very
close. The other end it's alittle bit farther away. This
used to be the islands used tobe a nine kilometer long
Peninsula and sandspit that wasconnected to the mainland,
(03:30):
actually on the east side, butin that connection would
sometimes be flooded. And thenin the 1850s I think it was the
region was hit by two majorstorms that flooded that
connection to the young city sothe second of the storms 1950 in
1858 Pardon me cut a 500 footchannel in the land and that's
(03:51):
what turned the peninsula into aseries of islands and so it's on
the other side now on the westside that the where you're
closest to the mainland andthat's built up land that's
where the island Airport is.
Christine Malec (04:07):
And so you do occasionally you'll be hearing
planes go overhead and that'sthis little airport that some
people hate and some people loveit's very polarizing but you can
get to you get to Montreal toBoston to different you know
this is low key it's it's atreat if you're traveling.
JJ Hunt (04:27):
It is a super convenient airport, you know, in
a rather unfortunate placebecause otherwise the island is
so peaceful, so quiet, doesn'thave major cars major traffic
and then you've got the airporthere so gosh, so convenient
but...
Christine Malec (04:45):
Yeah, there you can live on the island. There is
a pocket of residential space onthe island for those lucky few
and yep, they really don't.
Yeah. So, one of the thingspeople love about being here one
of many, many is view of thecity. And there are certain
spots that are you know, Iguess, photogenic and people
(05:05):
take. So what is it that makes aperfect view of the city before
we break down what it actuallylooks like? What is what is it
that makes this is the bestphoto op?
JJ Hunt (05:16):
Oh, great question. I mean, so first of all,
specifically for Toronto, one ofthe things that makes it makes a
good photo is that you get allof the skyline in one shot, it's
because you are out from thefrom the downtown core, you are
looking straight at it. So youget to see the entire city
skyline. All of the downtownbuildings, all of our most
(05:39):
famous buildings, the beautiful,the ugly, all of them, they're
nicely, you know, situated in anice long line, it means you
also get great big sky, ifyou're right on the shoreline
here, there aren't a lot oftrees in the way you can, you
know, you can angle your shot insuch a way that just one or two
branches is coming in from theupper corners to give a little
bit of depth a little bit ofperspective. But otherwise, you
(06:03):
get a clean view of the city.
And so whether it's a beautifulsunny day, or a really rainy
day, or at night, a going backfrom the island in the evening,
when all of the lights of thebuildings are shining and the CN
Tower has got its glow on it'sit's a beautiful skyline. So I
think that the main reason thisskyline and a lot of Skylines
(06:25):
Are you know, what makes a goodpicture of it, or a good view of
it is, is the clarity you get tosee all of it, it's, you know,
very clean.
Christine Malec (06:36):
And I'm guessing that what stands out
when you first look is the CNTower?
JJ Hunt (06:41):
Yeah, I mean, the CN Tower. It's huge, so big. And
you do get you do get a sense ofit. So the way the skyline is
from here from from this angle,and almost every picture
postcard almost every onlineimage that you're going to find
the city skyline is taken fromthe islands. So the CN Tower is
(07:01):
either in the center or in theWest, because the majority of
the biggest downtown buildingsare to the east of the CN Tower.
And so to the east, that's whereyou got all the all the condo
buildings, all the skyscrapers,all the office towers, and then
the CN Tower, which is, youknow, like I said, center Center
(07:21):
West. And then now there aremore and more condos that have
been built to the west. And andthat stretches on for a longer a
longer strip of land than itused to when we were kids. There
was there were one or two condoswell to the west, so kind of at
the edge of the city into atobiko the suburb, you know, the
(07:42):
closest kind of neighboringlittle suburb to the west. But
now that stretch between thedowntown core and and a tobiko
to the west, that's all filledin with condos along the along
the, you know, along thewaterfront. So you don't have
quite the same break but the CNTower, which is, you know, more
or less in the middle middlewest. It is tall, I mean really
(08:07):
tall, built in 1976 in the whatwas then thought of as a retro
futuristic style. I always liketo say that the CN tower looks
like a knitting needle that hasfirst skewered plumb and then
above it an olive. So really,really really tall spire quite
narrow and that's one of thethings that strikes you from
(08:29):
this point of view is how narrowit is really tall and narrow.
And then with two thirds of theway up, you get the plum shape.
So this kind of ball that's inthe middle, that's where I think
it's seven decks tall, sevenstories tall, and then the spire
continues goes up from there,then you get this little tiny
pot above that lets the All ofthat's about halfway up the mast
(08:51):
and then this kind of taperedmast, one section tiered really
one section on top of the otheron top of the other on top of
the other until you come to avery, very tiny point at the top
and it is tall. It is supertall, 1815 feet tall. That's an
(09:13):
equivalent of 147 stories tall.
Toronto is filled withskyscrapers. The second tallest
building currently is 987 feettall 72 storeys, so the CN Tower
147 The next biggest is 72storeys tall like just enormous
height difference in this onetall tower and really from here,
(09:37):
you get a sense like I said, ofhow narrow it is how thin it is,
when you're standing underneaththe CN Tower, and you're looking
up then you can see there arethree ribs three of these very
gently curving ribs that hold upthe body that make up the body
of the Sandtown when you'restanding under it. You can feel
and see how big those ribs arethose big poured concrete ribs.
(09:59):
But from here, you don't get asense of how much concrete is
poured into that thing. It justlooks like a big tall knitting
needle,
Christine Malec (10:08):
Right. And so Skyline like the rest of it. I'm
not clear, I guess on how muchdetail is visible in a skyline.
So when you're looking out, Iguess, you're seeing like a
bunch of fingers pointing uplike high rises to look like
fingers. Is that... ya?
JJ Hunt (10:27):
Yeah, in Toronto is now so packed that a lot of those
fingers are clumped together andoverlapping. So it's not just
one hand worth of fingers, ortwo or three in a row. Yeah,
it's two or three or four long,and then five or 10, deep. So
there are lots of fingers thatare overlapping these buildings,
generally in Toronto, tall,mostly glass buildings, glass,
(10:51):
blue glass, kind of green glass,condo buildings, a few that have
more kind of the the classic,you know, tan cement or tan
block and window. But mostlyright now, because so many of
our buildings have been builtrecently, it's this blue glass.
But from here from this angle,if I were to hold up a finger,
(11:11):
my index finger at arm's length,most of the buildings are about
the same size as my indexfinger. So that's the kind of
scale we're talking about. Andyou can see individual windows
in those buildings, you can'tsee what's going on in them. But
you can see floor after floorafter floor of those of those
windows, and up at the tops ofthe buildings, some of the
(11:34):
commercial buildings, you cansee the names of the buildings,
the whole building, there's theCIBC building, there's the
Western Harbour Castle, you cansee the names of the of the
buildings here. So that's kindof that's, that's how far away
we are.
Christine Malec (11:49):
So I'm imagining a lot of right angles,
is that typical of of allcityscapes, or are there some
cityscapes Skylines where you'dsee more curves?
JJ Hunt (11:58):
No, definitely some.
Toronto's buildings are, andpeople will complain about this,
they're pretty dull. A lot ofour skyscrapers are just, yeah,
just kind of boxes standing, youknow, you know, tall, narrow
boxes standing on it. And that'sit. There are a handful of
buildings that have a little bitof curve to them, or they
they're a little bit tiered. Soyou get to the top and it's one
(12:20):
layer smaller, and then anotherone that's smaller another and
you can get a bit of that. TheWestin harbour Castle has a
rotating restaurant on the top.
So it's got like a puck, thatsitting on top there's one condo
building in the downtown corethat's got a it's when you get
to the top, it's got a slightbulge that then curves back in.
(12:41):
It's almost like a, like a finepointed paint brush. Where that
where it curves toward the topon one side. But mostly in
Toronto, and in a lot of cities.
The the condos themselves arejust dull glass rectangles, you
go to somewhere like Singapore,you much more interesting, much
like it doesn't have to be thisway. Yes. dull. And this is that
(13:04):
and honestly, it's because somuch of our of our skyline has
been built in recent years.
Yeah, I mean, we've got, I wasreading some numbers about this.
Before we came, we havesomething like 80 skyscrapers
currently in our skyline. Andthere are 30 more that are
(13:25):
currently under construction.
And there are another 90 thatare in the approval stage.
Toronto has the third mostskyscrapers of any city in North
America behind New York andChicago. And our construction
boom is, is out of hand. There'san outfit actually that tracks
the number of constructioncranes that are in use in North
(13:45):
America. So it knows this outfitknows how many construction
cranes are in every single citythat's using them. And Toronto
has had the most the most cranesevery have any North American
city every year since 2015. Inthe first quarter of 2022, we
had 252 construction cranes inuse, and LA had the second most
(14:09):
with 51. Something like 45% ofall available cranes in North
America are in Toronto rightnow.
Christine Malec (14:21):
That's madness.
JJ Hunt (14:22):
It's ridiculous. And it's mostly condos that are
going up. That's why that thatyou know, the shoreline to the
west. It's all condos alongthere. It's why most of these
buildings, big tall glass,fairly dull condo, so it kind of
blocks out some of the some ofthe more interesting buildings.
Some of the some of the olderbuildings that used to be there
(14:43):
are grand structures. Now thoseare being dominated by glass
condo towers.
Christine Malec (14:48):
And so we're at you know, obviously at water
level, and when you look out, isit obvious to your eye that the
land is rising a bit so likeWe're in our you know, our
neighborhood where we live isNorth it's a significant thing
is 510 K in or whatever okaynorth of the lake so can you see
that?
JJ Hunt (15:09):
You actually can't because of this wall of
buildings okay? There's youcan't see any part of the city
Beyond The Beyond theskyscrapers when you're in a
plane you can you still don'tget a sense of the rise, but you
can certainly see theneighborhoods. So once you get
past that downtown core and youstart to move a little bit
(15:29):
north, obviously the buildingsget a lot smaller except for
corridors you know, you getlike, you know, major streets
north south, you're gonna have afew apartment buildings along
there. But Toronto Other thanthis, this like packed downtown
core, Toronto is really a cityof have houses of neighborhood
of pot of neighborhood pockets.
And so once you get over thethis, this cluster of buildings,
(15:51):
it shrinks, like the city getsreally, the buildings get really
low, and it's all trees. That'swhat you see mostly because
it's, you know, housesneighborhood neighborhoods full
of single family homes, withlots of trees on the front
lawns, but you don't get a senseof the of the rise. From here,
certainly because it's blocked.
(16:16):
Really the best way to get asense of the rise of the city is
to get on a bicycle and try and
Christine Malec (16:21):
yep, oh, I can remember. I've heard it said I
haven't done a ton of traveling.
But I've heard it said that.
That's one of Toronto'sstrengths is that the zoning is
such that you have neighborhoodsand so you'll have commercial
and residential mixed so thatyou don't get like this dead
downtown core at night kind ofthing.
JJ Hunt (16:39):
Yeah, it's so it's interesting. There are some real
ups and downs to the way Torontohas developed over the years.
Like I said, it's really a cityof single family homes,
relatively few apartmentbuildings in the late 1910s,
early 20s. I guess there was alot of small walk up apartment
building, like construction inlots of different cities around
(17:01):
North America. The kind ofclassic brick construction of
these four storey walkups rowsof windows on every floor, black
iron fire escapes at either thefront or the back, maybe some
maybe these buildings would benew shapes with a narrow
courtyard and the center eitherthe front or back. That's a very
classic design. You see them allover Canada in the US, but not
(17:24):
as many in Toronto, because inthe 1910s and it's just someone
say still today, Toronto isgovernment was really a little
bit uppity and kind of anxious.
And they were worried abouttenement buildings, tenement
housing, they were reallyconcerned that tenement
buildings were going to ruin thecity. And so they passed a
bylaw, that more or less bannedapartment buildings in
(17:48):
residential neighborhoods. Andthat Bylaw is kind of I think
it's still in place and itcontributes to the way the city
has developed. So we have all ofthese neighborhoods have city
family homes, have single familyhomes, pardon me, but the
apartment buildings are few andfar between except on major
streets. And then in the in theoutskirts of the city, which
(18:09):
were built later. Yeah, so wegot these neighborhoods full of
single family homes. Generally,their two story houses some
bungalow some three story oldVictorians. They generally have
modest front yards and modestbackyards. Most of the
neighborhoods in the city havesidewalks. And yet it's a lot of
neighborhoods that have theretail strip the main street,
(18:33):
and then kind of branching offof that grids of these of the
residential streets. And lots ofmost of the houses in Toronto
are of brick construction. Solots of red brick or brown brick
houses. There was a lot of goodclay and shale in the Don
Valley. So when in the earlydays of the modern city that
(18:57):
clay was quarried and turnedinto bricks at the Don Valley
brick works. So pre World WarTwo, it Toronto was built
largely with local bricks andyou can find those bricks in a
lot of the major buildings inToronto but a lot of the houses
too will be these this red brickhouses. These are the bricks
that line the curbs of downtownToronto. I think we've talked
(19:19):
about this before, on the citystreets in downtown Toronto,
right at the curb with with thecurb in the road meet. There's a
row of bricks of red bricksthat's kind of separates the you
know the pavement from the curbthe sidewalk the cement. And
originally these were built intothe East West streets to channel
rainwater because the citysloped south they didn't need
(19:42):
them on nor sanitary it's onlyon the East West streets. And so
you would have these kind ofcatch basins made of or these
these gutters made of red brickthat would you know, direct the
water to catch basins. And it'sa distinctive part of the city.
That's an unusual design. Mostcities don't have that it's
become so The norm in Torontothat a lot of new streets that
are built, they still put thatlittle big brick gutter in, just
(20:04):
because that's that's the wayToronto does it. It's part of
our aesthetic, it's part of ourlandscape. So that's, that's how
those are built. And by the way,those bricks are everywhere. If
you go down to Leslie spit,which is landfill park this
long, knobbly spit of land thatjuts out into Lake Ontario, it
was and still is being builtwith like dump truck after dump
(20:29):
truck of demolition Rubble,that's how the whole split was
made. And so if you go downthere, you can find lots of
these worn down old bricks fromToronto's early days that have
been tumbling around on theshores of the park. And so now
they're smooth from rollingaround in the water. Some of
(20:49):
these old bricks have roundedcorners. Others are in the shape
of like capsules, they'rethey're basically the bricks
have been worn down or almostpill shaped. And sometimes they
you can find bricks thatactually have the name of the
the original brickwork stampedin them, oh, you get a bit of
history there. And there arelots of bricks that are made
with holes in the center, Ithink they're called cord
(21:10):
bricks, so that the bit of amortar pops up between them
makes them really solid, they'relighter. They're, you know, good
construction bricks. But whathappens with these bricks when
they get tumbled around is youget holes in the middle of these
brick shaped rocks. Oh, and sowhat people do is they gather
them up, and then they find bitsof rebar again, because this
spit of land is made with youknow, construction Rubble,
(21:32):
you'll sometimes get like a likethese twisted arms of rebar come
out of the shores of the park,it's a little bit dangerous. So
people take these bricks withholes in them, and they and they
kind of loop them on. So whatyou end up with these are these
bars of rebar that have thesebulging muscles of stacks of
little bricks go up and theymake these sculptures all along
(21:54):
the shores of of the spit. It'spretty cool.
Christine Malec (21:58):
Oh, gosh. Oh, look, can we talk a bit about
the shoreline as opposed to theskyline? So when you're coming
on the ferry and looking back atthe shoreline, how is Toronto's
shoreline? used? What do you seejust right on the waterfront?
JJ Hunt (22:17):
Ok, so that's a good question. So this is going to be
from memory because we're alittle bit further back from
that. But I mean, there's not athere's not a lot of natural
space on the Toronto shorelineat this point. It is when you're
downtown closest to the docks. Imean, you're really seeing like
a short cement wall likethere's, there's it is it is a
(22:39):
cement wharf all the way alongthe downtown core, you get to
Harbourfront Centre. And it'sstill you've got there's a
boardwalk but, you know, fromwhat you're actually facing from
the water is a short cement wallwith the boardwalk on top. And
then, you know, within the first100, 200 feet of the shore line
at Harbourfront there are acouple of arts buildings are old
(23:02):
power plants old some of theseold red brick power plants that
have now been turned intotheaters and whatnot. And you to
the to the east, it's it's stillfairly industrial, there are a
few neighborhoods that are beingbuilt in that area. But those
are very much underconstruction. Some of these
construction cranes are downthere building new residential
(23:24):
neighborhoods as we speak. Theshoreline itself, there's not
much to it it the shore lookslike the skyline because the
buildings often come right upclose. And there's not a lot of
natural space of green space. Soyou actually the skyline becomes
(23:46):
visually anyway the shoreline ifthat makes sense.
Christine Malec (23:49):
Okay, but there are keys and things where people
have boats moored more or lesspermanently. So is there any
sense of the recreational use ofthe other shoreline when you
look at it?
JJ Hunt (24:03):
Yeah, if you go a little bit further east so
you're you kind of not in thelanes of of where the ferries
are, but if you continue if youif you you know get getting a
canoe or something like that andyou paddle a little bit to the
east, then you get a censersmarina on the on the city side
to the east and then farther tothe west. If you continue on
(24:25):
toward like the Hyde Park area,there's a there's a you know, a
yacht club and whatever there Imean, Yacht Club makes it sound
a little fancier than it is.
It's still relatively smallboats, you know, we're talking
25 to 50 foot sailboats andsmall yachts I guess. And you
know, there are some pots, somepockets of that along the city,
(24:49):
but they don't dominate. We'renot like if you're in Vancouver,
for example. There's lots andlots and lots of places to find
Marina. downtown, not as manynot as many in Toronto I'd say.
Christine Malec (25:04):
And what about what you see on the water? What
kind of watercraft and activitydo you see going on on the water
between here and the island?
JJ Hunt (25:12):
Yeah, lots of lots of these little sailboats modest
sail, but not little, little,but like, you know, modest
sailboats puttering around, youknow, on a beautiful sunny day,
quite a few kayaks and incanoes. So, you know, at
different points a little bitoutside of where the ferries go
back and forth. There are spotswhere kayaks can go back and
(25:35):
forth from the city to theisland. I've never done that
you've done that.
Christine Malec (25:39):
I've done it in a canoe a few times. And it's
pretty dreamy. It's pretty nicesign.
JJ Hunt (25:44):
And then the ferries themselves so the ferry boats
are kind of the most notableboats that go back and forth.
And the Toronto ferry boats arereally quite charming. The the
service ferry service began inToronto like 1833. And the boats
that we have in service nowaren't quite from that time, but
they feel like it!
Christine Malec (26:03):
Ha! The do, eh! They feel very homey, like it's
the same boat since I was alittle kid. I think they are.
JJ Hunt (26:08):
They literally are! I think some of the boats that are
still in service are like 70, 80years old. I mean, they're
amazing. They're four, eightboats in total, I think there
are something like four thatoperate back and forth at the
airport, and then four thatoperate to the main islands. And
each boat is unique. But most ofthe main passenger ferries have
(26:29):
a very similar look so long ovalkind of capsule shaped holes
with like an oval kind offootprint with a low black hole.
And then a big lug a large whitedeck house on the fair first
level that's lined with Windows.
And that covers all of the firstlevel except for the two ends,
the ends of the boats are open,the second floor is open. So
(26:51):
it's got a roof. But open sides,there's only a waist high blue
wire fence with an oak railingall along the second level, then
otherwise, the second levelfeels very open no walls or
anything like that there is acovering because there's a third
story of like a third level.
(27:12):
That third level is that's wherethe pilot houses are. And
there's a pilot house at thefront of pilot house at the back
with smokestacks and theinflatable raft canisters
between them. The lots of likethe original trimmings on these
boats, so like the bolts and therivet heads are all clearly
visible. The Oak trim, the wayyou sit down on these boats is
(27:36):
on like oak, picnic benches likelike park benches. Really old
timey, really beautiful. We werelaughing on our way over the
there are life jackets that arestrapped to the ceiling on the
second floor, these brightorange life jackets. And it
looks like the same life jacketsthat have been there since you
(27:57):
and I were like they reallythese are like the, you know,
they look like U shapes that youput around your neck. And like I
think the instruction video thatcomes with them is like [Old
time radio voice] "Hello,welcome to the Toronto ferries
if you'd like to put your lifejacket on slip it over your
noggin!"
Christine Malec (28:13):
Ha ha ha!
JJ Hunt (28:13):
Supper old school. I love those, they're so ancient.
Christine Malec (28:17):
Just for the record. JJ did look in the we
saw 2012 on one of thelifejackets. So it's not they're
not from 1833.
JJ Hunt (28:23):
Not really from 1833, they just feel like it.
Christine Malec (28:25):
They just feel like it. Now, can we talk about
the shape of the island? And youanswered a question, but I
didn't actually know it's 15separate little islands. So
there's I know from myexperience here, there's bridges
all over the place. But I neverthought much about what they did
and what was between them. Andpeople talked about canals. But
again, I was unclear. So it's acollection. The islands, the
(28:46):
islands making air quotesactually refers to 15 little
islands. So can we kind of talkabout how those are laid out?
JJ Hunt (28:53):
Yeah, in this in this, you know, this gentle C shape,
this, you know, crescent shape,little pockets, and some of them
are quite tiny. And they'reconnected by Little Foot
bridges. And some of them aresome of these islands are quite
large and have, like you saidcommunities of people on them.
So you get a sense of the canalsweaving between them. But you
(29:18):
don't necessarily recognize thatyou're on one island or another
you've just crossed to another.
It does feel quite connected.
Because of all these littlelittle island little bridges
that go from one to the othersummer quite high. Some of the
bridges are are fairly high andthat allows boats sailboats and
whatnot to go under. But somearen't. Some are like little,
(29:40):
you know, little, little tinyfoot bridges that don't have
much of an arc to them at all.
Christine Malec (29:45):
I believe the whole island is about five
kilometers across and from likehaving biked it and ran it and
walked it and yeah, I believethat's right. And so the
residential part is mostly inthe east and there's is a really
interesting and gamey historythere array of people who've
lived here and had recreationalproperties here,
JJ Hunt (30:08):
the islands got quite a history that that's, you know,
grew up with the City ofToronto, and obviously extends
well before colonization. So thethe kind of Toronto relationship
with the island, the moderncolonial city relationship,
there were times when the islandwas a place for summer homes.
And I think a lot of theoriginal houses that were built
(30:30):
here were built as summer homes,little cottagey kind of places.
And so the houses that are here,still, a lot of them still have
that cottagey kind of feel tothem. Instead of the brick
construction over here, you havea lot of Ford and bat. And
you've got a lot of wood frameconstruction, and some shingle
houses and things like that,that, you know, all the houses
(30:53):
over here have plumbing andelectricity, it says, you know,
these are fully service places.
But that's that it thatcommunity, I think, grew from
being a cottage place to being aneighborhood. And so it kind of
still has that feel, it'ssomewhere in between. It's not,
it's not quite like going, youknow, being in a in a in a
community of cottages. It's notquite like being in any other
(31:15):
neighborhood in Toronto, it'skind of some combination of the
two. But before that beforecolonization, these lands were
known to many differentIndigenous nations, the
Mississauga the credit, theAnishinabeg, the Chippewa, the
Haudenosaunee, and the Wendatpeoples all had relationships
with the islands, which I thinkback then most of the time would
(31:38):
have been a peninsula. By the1700s, this land, the islands,
they were being used as a placeof healing by the Mississaugas
of the credit. There's justsomething about this location,
the lands the relationship tothe to the shore, to the
mainland, the climate, thebreeze, it gave this place, a
real comforting kind ofrecuperative quality. And so the
(32:04):
people of the Mississaugas ofthe credit would come here to
the islands intentionally toheal if someone was unwell, they
would come and they would spendtime here so that their, their
their family member, thecommunity member could heal, it
then became a place forceremony. Lots of different
kinds of ceremonies held on thison the island, it was understood
(32:27):
to be a sacred spot. And, youknow, you and I were talking
about this on our way over here.
We know lots of people and weare people who have come to the
island at different parts in ourlives, to rest and to relax and
to recuperate. Not because of aconnection to you know,
(32:51):
indigenous spirituality. And notjust because it's a break from
the city. It is obviously it isa nice break from that kind of,
you know, city life and cityhustle and bustle and the noise
and whatnot. But beyond that,there's just a really lovely
peaceful energy here and thebreeze over here. And, and
(33:13):
honestly, that holds true notonly in the summer, when it's
gorgeous and sunny and and warmand you get a nice cool breeze.
But in the winter, when it'sbiting cold, it's raw. And
there's something about beinghere in the winter when it's
raw.
Christine Malec (33:28):
So true.
JJ Hunt (33:28):
It's wonderful.
Christine Malec (33:29):
And we're contradicting ourselves a bit
but part of the reason whythat's all true is a lot most
Torontonians don't come here.
Yeah, when you talk to them. Oh,yeah, I always mean to go and I
went there once and so not youknow, it's not like every
Torontonian has a relationshipwith this spot. And that's
partly why it's been I have
JJ Hunt (33:51):
That's right. That's right. Especially in the winter.
Christine Malec (33:53):
Yeah, oh yes.
JJ Hunt (33:54):
It does take an extra step you've got to go the
icebreaker boat. One of theboats does the icebreaker you
can't go to center island, yougot to go to the residential
dock. And then there's no thereare no services over here.
There's power but there's maybeone restaurant...
Christine Malec (34:08):
It's not for tourists in the winter.
JJ Hunt (34:11):
So you're coming over here in the winter, you know you
throw your skates in yourbackpack and you better be well
dressed. A couple of differenttouques and mittens and all your
all your gear because it's it'sbiting when it's so so
wonderful.
Christine Malec (34:27):
September, man.
Oh yeah. That's my my bestmemories. I'm not saying a lot
because I have so many goodmemories here. But September is
the best because you still gotgreat weather, maybe a little
crisp, but not so many peopleand bright sunny days. We're
almost in September, and I justYeah, it's a beautiful place.
Then there's recreational stuffgoing on here in the summertime.
(34:50):
So Centreville is this littlespot where there's rides and
bike rentals. And is there stillis there a log ride? The log
ride!
JJ Hunt (35:00):
Ya, the Zumba Flume or wherever it is.
Christine Malec (35:02):
Ha ha ha!
JJ Hunt (35:03):
Center island so sweet.
It's I mean it's a it's anamusement park that is, you
know, pretty clearly designedfor you know kids 10 and under.
So it's got a it's got a vibe toit. It's not like big roller
coasters and whatnot. centerisland has smallish rides,
select lots of little kid rides,including those, like old
fashioned cars on tracks. Solittle old fashioned cars that
(35:28):
you get to sit in a kid gets asteering wheel, but they can
only steer like three inches tothe right or left. Otherwise,
the car is just being bumpedalong by with it by a little a
little rail. And so that kind ofgoes through some of the old
trees that are here on theisland. And, you know, they have
paddocks where they have some ahandful of there's a little
island farm where it's like alittle petting zoo kind of farm.
(35:51):
And then it's got like a mainstreet kind of feel to it like
an old fashioned Main Street. Soall of the snack shops and the
ride entrances look like you're,you know, you're going into an
old fashioned ice cream shop orsomething like that. It's it's
it's got like an old timey kindof feel to it.
Christine Malec (36:09):
Is there still a cable car?
JJ Hunt (36:10):
Yeah!
Christine Malec (36:12):
The Cable car!
JJ Hunt (36:13):
That's a fun one, too.
Yeah. A little gondola thattakes you up and you can go kind
of over the city, or pardon meover the over the island.
Christine Malec (36:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so in the summer, of
course, you know, touristscommon and people, you get a lot
more than in the fall in thewinter. And I'm curious whether
what you saw on the ferry was arepresentation of what you see
in the city, because clearlythis is somewhere you'd come if
you were visiting the city, youwould you would come here, but
also, I'm just wondering thedemographic of what you saw on
(36:44):
the way over on a boat.
JJ Hunt (36:46):
So that's a good question on the ferry on the way
over here, I'd say that the kindof crowd that we were seeing
was, was pretty representativeof just the city as a whole,
lots of different groups ofpeople, different walks of life,
different ages, differentethnicities, different skin
tones, lots of cyclists, lots ofpeople with strollers, lots of
(37:09):
people families pulling thesekind of collapsible wagons. So
you know, you load up thislittle collapsible wagon full of
all your picnic supplies, andmaybe a little sun umbrella if
you're going to go to the beach,or you know, all that jazz, and
you wheel that onto the ferry,and we'll get back off again. So
the first floor of the ferry isall strollers and in people with
(37:31):
their bikes and people withtheir, you know, their
collapsible wagons, and whatnot.
And the second level is always alot of summer camps. So lots of
teenage counselors and dozensand dozens and dozens of kids!
Christine Malec (37:46):
Ha ha! There were gaggles of children.
JJ Hunt (37:47):
So excited to be on the ferry, they're running back and
forth, you know, holding on tothe oak railing and peering
through the wire mesh to see theisland come into view as we
approach and yeah, lots of lotsof different folks, lots of
different, like family groupsand friend groups. It's
interesting different times ofday. I laugh sometimes if I'm
(38:09):
here in the fall, fewer peopleso you kind of get a better
sense of some of the individualswho are on and even have the
experience. I don't know ifyou've had this before where you
kind of feel like when you comeover onto the island with a
group of people that's likethat's your group of people. And
then you kind of bump into themonce or twice on the Oh yeah.
And then you might see themagain on the ferry. So some of
(38:33):
that kind of goes on and I'veseen groups this always makes me
laugh but if you if you for somereason are coming over onto the
island in the evening, you mightsee a couple of people come over
just to take pictures on theferry or from the island and
then they immediately catch nextboat back Oh, so it's really
(38:56):
just like it's a ferry trip.
Yeah, like that's the day you goon the ferry. You take a couple
pictures you have a laugh, andthat's like a little you know,
little mini evening activity isjust just a ferry ride. And why
not I guess, it's a it's a niceplace to be.
Christine Malec (39:13):
I love boats.
People come here to party too. Ithink teenagers sometimes you
know, it was when you weretalking about the time of day I
was thinking about fairiesleaving the city at like you
know five six in the evening.
JJ Hunt (39:24):
That's right different demographic that's a different
demographic that's leaving thenthen you get a you know, some
that are gonna stay on a littlelater and have their beach party
and maybe they're gonna go overto the nude beach and have a
picnic and a fire in the eveningand you know, smoke weed they
want to smoke and have theirhave their good time.
Christine Malec (39:43):
Oh, yeah. Well, in our text exchange this
morning, the phrase to hammockscame up, and so I think that's
maybe in our afternoon, aclassic Island day.
JJ Hunt (39:57):
Ha ha! That's right.
We've got spanakopeta, chocolatecroissants...
Christine Malec (40:00):
Oh yeah.
JJ Hunt (40:00):
... and two hammocks.
Christine Malec (40:01):
That's what life on the island is all about.
It's what a visit to the islandis all about.
JJ Hunt (40:05):
I'm all about it.
This is the 119th episode ofTalk description to me. It's
also our last episode. For now.
In the two years we've been onthe air, we've covered
everything from riots to jazzhands tornadoes, to tick tock
trends, journeys into space towonders of the world. And I have
to say, we're proud of everyepisode. We're hitting pause on
(40:28):
our weekly release schedule, butwe're gonna keep our website and
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into, maybe you've got afavorite episode, maybe like us,
Your memory is less thanperfect, and you just want to
(40:50):
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(41:10):
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(41:33):
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(41:56):
Thank you for listening. We'lltalk again soon.
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:27):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:28):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashed out in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
JJ you and I are both dyed in the wool
Torontonians. And we love welove the city that we live in.
And right at this moment, we arein arguably both have one of our
favorite spots in the city,which is not quite in the city,
which is the Toronto Island. Andso we took a 15 minute ferry
ride who doesn't love a ferryride to get here. And this is a
(01:09):
place that's so special to bothof us for different reasons. But
it's also a good place fromwhich to talk about the city,
because you get picturesqueviews of the skyline and the
harbor and the port on theisland itself is just a little
speck of wonderfulness close tothe city, but you really feel
like you're not in the city. SoI'm going to situate where we
(01:30):
physically are at this moment sothat the audio soundscape makes
sense. We are facing the water.
There are some boats in front ofus that JJ will describe but I'm
mentioning them because you'llhear a little tinkling, which is
the rigging in the breeze. Andbehind us is a recreation a
little pathway where people andbikes go by. And it's it's a
(01:50):
lovely summer day. And so I justlearned recently that the so
Toronto is on the north side ofLake Ontario, so in Toronto
toward the water is alwayssouth. But the shore actually is
going from southwest tonortheast. I didn't know that
until recently. But So JJ, canyou with that in mind. Can you
(02:13):
describe if you were looking ata map like the big picture, how
does the island look, I heard itdescribed as shape like a
croissant.
JJ Hunt (02:22):
That's a good description of it. Yeah, a tasty
description and accurate. Yeah,if you're looking at it from
like overhead on a map, theisland is actually actually a
it's a chain of 15 smallislands. So it's not one
singular Island. And it is kindof croissant shape. And it is
got a bit of a curve to it. Andit is out from the main
(02:48):
shoreline of downtown Toronto.
So you're on down, you're indowntown Toronto, and you're
looking out, the islands arestraight ahead of you. If you're
over overhead, there's just kindof a little harbor between this
the string of islands that comesreally at points like when when
we you know one tip of thatcroissant curves toward the city
near the island, you know wherethe island airport is, it's
(03:10):
very, very close to themainland, like you could you
could easily swim. You know, Ican't remember what it is 100
feet 200 feet or something likethat it's very, very, very
close. The other end it's alittle bit farther away. This
used to be the islands used tobe a nine kilometer long
Peninsula and sandspit that wasconnected to the mainland,
(03:30):
actually on the east side, butin that connection would
sometimes be flooded. And thenin the 1850s I think it was the
region was hit by two majorstorms that flooded that
connection to the young city sothe second of the storms 1950 in
1858 Pardon me cut a 500 footchannel in the land and that's
(03:51):
what turned the peninsula into aseries of islands and so it's on
the other side now on the westside that the where you're
closest to the mainland andthat's built up land that's
where the island Airport is.
Christine Malec (04:07):
And so you do occasionally you'll be hearing
planes go overhead and that'sthis little airport that some
people hate and some people loveit's very polarizing but you can
get to you get to Montreal toBoston to different you know
this is low key it's it's atreat if you're traveling.
JJ Hunt (04:27):
It is a super convenient airport, you know, in
a rather unfortunate placebecause otherwise the island is
so peaceful, so quiet, doesn'thave major cars major traffic
and then you've got the airporthere so gosh, so convenient
but...
Christine Malec (04:45):
Yeah, there you can live on the island. There is
a pocket of residential space onthe island for those lucky few
and yep, they really don't.
Yeah. So, one of the thingspeople love about being here one
of many, many is view of thecity. And there are certain
spots that are you know, Iguess, photogenic and people
(05:05):
take. So what is it that makes aperfect view of the city before
we break down what it actuallylooks like? What is what is it
that makes this is the bestphoto op?
JJ Hunt (05:16):
Oh, great question. I mean, so first of all,
specifically for Toronto, one ofthe things that makes it makes a
good photo is that you get allof the skyline in one shot, it's
because you are out from thefrom the downtown core, you are
looking straight at it. So youget to see the entire city
skyline. All of the downtownbuildings, all of our most
(05:39):
famous buildings, the beautiful,the ugly, all of them, they're
nicely, you know, situated in anice long line, it means you
also get great big sky, ifyou're right on the shoreline
here, there aren't a lot oftrees in the way you can, you
know, you can angle your shot insuch a way that just one or two
branches is coming in from theupper corners to give a little
bit of depth a little bit ofperspective. But otherwise, you
(06:03):
get a clean view of the city.
And so whether it's a beautifulsunny day, or a really rainy
day, or at night, a going backfrom the island in the evening,
when all of the lights of thebuildings are shining and the CN
Tower has got its glow on it'sit's a beautiful skyline. So I
think that the main reason thisskyline and a lot of Skylines
(06:25):
Are you know, what makes a goodpicture of it, or a good view of
it is, is the clarity you get tosee all of it, it's, you know,
very clean.
Christine Malec (06:36):
And I'm guessing that what stands out
when you first look is the CNTower?
JJ Hunt (06:41):
Yeah, I mean, the CN Tower. It's huge, so big. And
you do get you do get a sense ofit. So the way the skyline is
from here from from this angle,and almost every picture
postcard almost every onlineimage that you're going to find
the city skyline is taken fromthe islands. So the CN Tower is
(07:01):
either in the center or in theWest, because the majority of
the biggest downtown buildingsare to the east of the CN Tower.
And so to the east, that's whereyou got all the all the condo
buildings, all the skyscrapers,all the office towers, and then
the CN Tower, which is, youknow, like I said, center Center
(07:21):
West. And then now there aremore and more condos that have
been built to the west. And andthat stretches on for a longer a
longer strip of land than itused to when we were kids. There
was there were one or two condoswell to the west, so kind of at
the edge of the city into atobiko the suburb, you know, the
(07:42):
closest kind of neighboringlittle suburb to the west. But
now that stretch between thedowntown core and and a tobiko
to the west, that's all filledin with condos along the along
the, you know, along thewaterfront. So you don't have
quite the same break but the CNTower, which is, you know, more
or less in the middle middlewest. It is tall, I mean really
(08:07):
tall, built in 1976 in the whatwas then thought of as a retro
futuristic style. I always liketo say that the CN tower looks
like a knitting needle that hasfirst skewered plumb and then
above it an olive. So really,really really tall spire quite
narrow and that's one of thethings that strikes you from
(08:29):
this point of view is how narrowit is really tall and narrow.
And then with two thirds of theway up, you get the plum shape.
So this kind of ball that's inthe middle, that's where I think
it's seven decks tall, sevenstories tall, and then the spire
continues goes up from there,then you get this little tiny
pot above that lets the All ofthat's about halfway up the mast
(08:51):
and then this kind of taperedmast, one section tiered really
one section on top of the otheron top of the other on top of
the other until you come to avery, very tiny point at the top
and it is tall. It is supertall, 1815 feet tall. That's an
(09:13):
equivalent of 147 stories tall.
Toronto is filled withskyscrapers. The second tallest
building currently is 987 feettall 72 storeys, so the CN Tower
147 The next biggest is 72storeys tall like just enormous
height difference in this onetall tower and really from here,
(09:37):
you get a sense like I said, ofhow narrow it is how thin it is,
when you're standing underneaththe CN Tower, and you're looking
up then you can see there arethree ribs three of these very
gently curving ribs that hold upthe body that make up the body
of the Sandtown when you'restanding under it. You can feel
and see how big those ribs arethose big poured concrete ribs.
(09:59):
But from here, you don't get asense of how much concrete is
poured into that thing. It justlooks like a big tall knitting
needle,
Christine Malec (10:08):
Right. And so Skyline like the rest of it. I'm
not clear, I guess on how muchdetail is visible in a skyline.
So when you're looking out, Iguess, you're seeing like a
bunch of fingers pointing uplike high rises to look like
fingers. Is that... ya?
JJ Hunt (10:27):
Yeah, in Toronto is now so packed that a lot of those
fingers are clumped together andoverlapping. So it's not just
one hand worth of fingers, ortwo or three in a row. Yeah,
it's two or three or four long,and then five or 10, deep. So
there are lots of fingers thatare overlapping these buildings,
generally in Toronto, tall,mostly glass buildings, glass,
(10:51):
blue glass, kind of green glass,condo buildings, a few that have
more kind of the the classic,you know, tan cement or tan
block and window. But mostlyright now, because so many of
our buildings have been builtrecently, it's this blue glass.
But from here from this angle,if I were to hold up a finger,
(11:11):
my index finger at arm's length,most of the buildings are about
the same size as my indexfinger. So that's the kind of
scale we're talking about. Andyou can see individual windows
in those buildings, you can'tsee what's going on in them. But
you can see floor after floorafter floor of those of those
windows, and up at the tops ofthe buildings, some of the
(11:34):
commercial buildings, you cansee the names of the buildings,
the whole building, there's theCIBC building, there's the
Western Harbour Castle, you cansee the names of the of the
buildings here. So that's kindof that's, that's how far away
we are.
Christine Malec (11:49):
So I'm imagining a lot of right angles,
is that typical of of allcityscapes, or are there some
cityscapes Skylines where you'dsee more curves?
JJ Hunt (11:58):
No, definitely some.
Toronto's buildings are, andpeople will complain about this,
they're pretty dull. A lot ofour skyscrapers are just, yeah,
just kind of boxes standing, youknow, you know, tall, narrow
boxes standing on it. And that'sit. There are a handful of
buildings that have a little bitof curve to them, or they
they're a little bit tiered. Soyou get to the top and it's one
(12:20):
layer smaller, and then anotherone that's smaller another and
you can get a bit of that. TheWestin harbour Castle has a
rotating restaurant on the top.
So it's got like a puck, thatsitting on top there's one condo
building in the downtown corethat's got a it's when you get
to the top, it's got a slightbulge that then curves back in.
(12:41):
It's almost like a, like a finepointed paint brush. Where that
where it curves toward the topon one side. But mostly in
Toronto, and in a lot of cities.
The the condos themselves arejust dull glass rectangles, you
go to somewhere like Singapore,you much more interesting, much
like it doesn't have to be thisway. Yes. dull. And this is that
(13:04):
and honestly, it's because somuch of our of our skyline has
been built in recent years.
Yeah, I mean, we've got, I wasreading some numbers about this.
Before we came, we havesomething like 80 skyscrapers
currently in our skyline. Andthere are 30 more that are
(13:25):
currently under construction.
And there are another 90 thatare in the approval stage.
Toronto has the third mostskyscrapers of any city in North
America behind New York andChicago. And our construction
boom is, is out of hand. There'san outfit actually that tracks
the number of constructioncranes that are in use in North
(13:45):
America. So it knows this outfitknows how many construction
cranes are in every single citythat's using them. And Toronto
has had the most the most cranesevery have any North American
city every year since 2015. Inthe first quarter of 2022, we
had 252 construction cranes inuse, and LA had the second most
(14:09):
with 51. Something like 45% ofall available cranes in North
America are in Toronto rightnow.
Christine Malec (14:21):
That's madness.
JJ Hunt (14:22):
It's ridiculous. And it's mostly condos that are
going up. That's why that thatyou know, the shoreline to the
west. It's all condos alongthere. It's why most of these
buildings, big tall glass,fairly dull condo, so it kind of
blocks out some of the some ofthe more interesting buildings.
Some of the some of the olderbuildings that used to be there
(14:43):
are grand structures. Now thoseare being dominated by glass
condo towers.
Christine Malec (14:48):
And so we're at you know, obviously at water
level, and when you look out, isit obvious to your eye that the
land is rising a bit so likeWe're in our you know, our
neighborhood where we live isNorth it's a significant thing
is 510 K in or whatever okaynorth of the lake so can you see
that?
JJ Hunt (15:09):
You actually can't because of this wall of
buildings okay? There's youcan't see any part of the city
Beyond The Beyond theskyscrapers when you're in a
plane you can you still don'tget a sense of the rise, but you
can certainly see theneighborhoods. So once you get
past that downtown core and youstart to move a little bit
(15:29):
north, obviously the buildingsget a lot smaller except for
corridors you know, you getlike, you know, major streets
north south, you're gonna have afew apartment buildings along
there. But Toronto Other thanthis, this like packed downtown
core, Toronto is really a cityof have houses of neighborhood
of pot of neighborhood pockets.
And so once you get over thethis, this cluster of buildings,
(15:51):
it shrinks, like the city getsreally, the buildings get really
low, and it's all trees. That'swhat you see mostly because
it's, you know, housesneighborhood neighborhoods full
of single family homes, withlots of trees on the front
lawns, but you don't get a senseof the of the rise. From here,
certainly because it's blocked.
(16:16):
Really the best way to get asense of the rise of the city is
to get on a bicycle and try and
Christine Malec (16:21):
yep, oh, I can remember. I've heard it said I
haven't done a ton of traveling.
But I've heard it said that.
That's one of Toronto'sstrengths is that the zoning is
such that you have neighborhoodsand so you'll have commercial
and residential mixed so thatyou don't get like this dead
downtown core at night kind ofthing.
JJ Hunt (16:39):
Yeah, it's so it's interesting. There are some real
ups and downs to the way Torontohas developed over the years.
Like I said, it's really a cityof single family homes,
relatively few apartmentbuildings in the late 1910s,
early 20s. I guess there was alot of small walk up apartment
building, like construction inlots of different cities around
(17:01):
North America. The kind ofclassic brick construction of
these four storey walkups rowsof windows on every floor, black
iron fire escapes at either thefront or the back, maybe some
maybe these buildings would benew shapes with a narrow
courtyard and the center eitherthe front or back. That's a very
classic design. You see them allover Canada in the US, but not
(17:24):
as many in Toronto, because inthe 1910s and it's just someone
say still today, Toronto isgovernment was really a little
bit uppity and kind of anxious.
And they were worried abouttenement buildings, tenement
housing, they were reallyconcerned that tenement
buildings were going to ruin thecity. And so they passed a
bylaw, that more or less bannedapartment buildings in
(17:48):
residential neighborhoods. Andthat Bylaw is kind of I think
it's still in place and itcontributes to the way the city
has developed. So we have all ofthese neighborhoods have city
family homes, have single familyhomes, pardon me, but the
apartment buildings are few andfar between except on major
streets. And then in the in theoutskirts of the city, which
(18:09):
were built later. Yeah, so wegot these neighborhoods full of
single family homes. Generally,their two story houses some
bungalow some three story oldVictorians. They generally have
modest front yards and modestbackyards. Most of the
neighborhoods in the city havesidewalks. And yet it's a lot of
neighborhoods that have theretail strip the main street,
(18:33):
and then kind of branching offof that grids of these of the
residential streets. And lots ofmost of the houses in Toronto
are of brick construction. Solots of red brick or brown brick
houses. There was a lot of goodclay and shale in the Don
Valley. So when in the earlydays of the modern city that
(18:57):
clay was quarried and turnedinto bricks at the Don Valley
brick works. So pre World WarTwo, it Toronto was built
largely with local bricks andyou can find those bricks in a
lot of the major buildings inToronto but a lot of the houses
too will be these this red brickhouses. These are the bricks
that line the curbs of downtownToronto. I think we've talked
(19:19):
about this before, on the citystreets in downtown Toronto,
right at the curb with with thecurb in the road meet. There's a
row of bricks of red bricksthat's kind of separates the you
know the pavement from the curbthe sidewalk the cement. And
originally these were built intothe East West streets to channel
rainwater because the citysloped south they didn't need
(19:42):
them on nor sanitary it's onlyon the East West streets. And so
you would have these kind ofcatch basins made of or these
these gutters made of red brickthat would you know, direct the
water to catch basins. And it'sa distinctive part of the city.
That's an unusual design. Mostcities don't have that it's
become so The norm in Torontothat a lot of new streets that
are built, they still put thatlittle big brick gutter in, just
(20:04):
because that's that's the wayToronto does it. It's part of
our aesthetic, it's part of ourlandscape. So that's, that's how
those are built. And by the way,those bricks are everywhere. If
you go down to Leslie spit,which is landfill park this
long, knobbly spit of land thatjuts out into Lake Ontario, it
was and still is being builtwith like dump truck after dump
(20:29):
truck of demolition Rubble,that's how the whole split was
made. And so if you go downthere, you can find lots of
these worn down old bricks fromToronto's early days that have
been tumbling around on theshores of the park. And so now
they're smooth from rollingaround in the water. Some of
(20:49):
these old bricks have roundedcorners. Others are in the shape
of like capsules, they'rethey're basically the bricks
have been worn down or almostpill shaped. And sometimes they
you can find bricks thatactually have the name of the
the original brickwork stampedin them, oh, you get a bit of
history there. And there arelots of bricks that are made
with holes in the center, Ithink they're called cord
(21:10):
bricks, so that the bit of amortar pops up between them
makes them really solid, they'relighter. They're, you know, good
construction bricks. But whathappens with these bricks when
they get tumbled around is youget holes in the middle of these
brick shaped rocks. Oh, and sowhat people do is they gather
them up, and then they find bitsof rebar again, because this
spit of land is made with youknow, construction Rubble,
(21:32):
you'll sometimes get like a likethese twisted arms of rebar come
out of the shores of the park,it's a little bit dangerous. So
people take these bricks withholes in them, and they and they
kind of loop them on. So whatyou end up with these are these
bars of rebar that have thesebulging muscles of stacks of
little bricks go up and theymake these sculptures all along
(21:54):
the shores of of the spit. It'spretty cool.
Christine Malec (21:58):
Oh, gosh. Oh, look, can we talk a bit about
the shoreline as opposed to theskyline? So when you're coming
on the ferry and looking back atthe shoreline, how is Toronto's
shoreline? used? What do you seejust right on the waterfront?
JJ Hunt (22:17):
Ok, so that's a good question. So this is going to be
from memory because we're alittle bit further back from
that. But I mean, there's not athere's not a lot of natural
space on the Toronto shorelineat this point. It is when you're
downtown closest to the docks. Imean, you're really seeing like
a short cement wall likethere's, there's it is it is a
(22:39):
cement wharf all the way alongthe downtown core, you get to
Harbourfront Centre. And it'sstill you've got there's a
boardwalk but, you know, fromwhat you're actually facing from
the water is a short cement wallwith the boardwalk on top. And
then, you know, within the first100, 200 feet of the shore line
at Harbourfront there are acouple of arts buildings are old
(23:02):
power plants old some of theseold red brick power plants that
have now been turned intotheaters and whatnot. And you to
the to the east, it's it's stillfairly industrial, there are a
few neighborhoods that are beingbuilt in that area. But those
are very much underconstruction. Some of these
construction cranes are downthere building new residential
(23:24):
neighborhoods as we speak. Theshoreline itself, there's not
much to it it the shore lookslike the skyline because the
buildings often come right upclose. And there's not a lot of
natural space of green space. Soyou actually the skyline becomes
(23:46):
visually anyway the shoreline ifthat makes sense.
Christine Malec (23:49):
Okay, but there are keys and things where people
have boats moored more or lesspermanently. So is there any
sense of the recreational use ofthe other shoreline when you
look at it?
JJ Hunt (24:03):
Yeah, if you go a little bit further east so
you're you kind of not in thelanes of of where the ferries
are, but if you continue if youif you you know get getting a
canoe or something like that andyou paddle a little bit to the
east, then you get a censersmarina on the on the city side
to the east and then farther tothe west. If you continue on
(24:25):
toward like the Hyde Park area,there's a there's a you know, a
yacht club and whatever there Imean, Yacht Club makes it sound
a little fancier than it is.
It's still relatively smallboats, you know, we're talking
25 to 50 foot sailboats andsmall yachts I guess. And you
know, there are some pots, somepockets of that along the city,
(24:49):
but they don't dominate. We'renot like if you're in Vancouver,
for example. There's lots andlots and lots of places to find
Marina. downtown, not as manynot as many in Toronto I'd say.
Christine Malec (25:04):
And what about what you see on the water? What
kind of watercraft and activitydo you see going on on the water
between here and the island?
JJ Hunt (25:12):
Yeah, lots of lots of these little sailboats modest
sail, but not little, little,but like, you know, modest
sailboats puttering around, youknow, on a beautiful sunny day,
quite a few kayaks and incanoes. So, you know, at
different points a little bitoutside of where the ferries go
back and forth. There are spotswhere kayaks can go back and
(25:35):
forth from the city to theisland. I've never done that
you've done that.
Christine Malec (25:39):
I've done it in a canoe a few times. And it's
pretty dreamy. It's pretty nicesign.
JJ Hunt (25:44):
And then the ferries themselves so the ferry boats
are kind of the most notableboats that go back and forth.
And the Toronto ferry boats arereally quite charming. The the
service ferry service began inToronto like 1833. And the boats
that we have in service nowaren't quite from that time, but
they feel like it!
Christine Malec (26:03):
Ha! The do, eh! They feel very homey, like it's
the same boat since I was alittle kid. I think they are.
JJ Hunt (26:08):
They literally are! I think some of the boats that are
still in service are like 70, 80years old. I mean, they're
amazing. They're four, eightboats in total, I think there
are something like four thatoperate back and forth at the
airport, and then four thatoperate to the main islands. And
each boat is unique. But most ofthe main passenger ferries have
(26:29):
a very similar look so long ovalkind of capsule shaped holes
with like an oval kind offootprint with a low black hole.
And then a big lug a large whitedeck house on the fair first
level that's lined with Windows.
And that covers all of the firstlevel except for the two ends,
the ends of the boats are open,the second floor is open. So
(26:51):
it's got a roof. But open sides,there's only a waist high blue
wire fence with an oak railingall along the second level, then
otherwise, the second levelfeels very open no walls or
anything like that there is acovering because there's a third
story of like a third level.
(27:12):
That third level is that's wherethe pilot houses are. And
there's a pilot house at thefront of pilot house at the back
with smokestacks and theinflatable raft canisters
between them. The lots of likethe original trimmings on these
boats, so like the bolts and therivet heads are all clearly
visible. The Oak trim, the wayyou sit down on these boats is
(27:36):
on like oak, picnic benches likelike park benches. Really old
timey, really beautiful. We werelaughing on our way over the
there are life jackets that arestrapped to the ceiling on the
second floor, these brightorange life jackets. And it
looks like the same life jacketsthat have been there since you
(27:57):
and I were like they reallythese are like the, you know,
they look like U shapes that youput around your neck. And like I
think the instruction video thatcomes with them is like [Old
time radio voice] "Hello,welcome to the Toronto ferries
if you'd like to put your lifejacket on slip it over your
noggin!"
Christine Malec (28:13):
Ha ha ha!
JJ Hunt (28:13):
Supper old school. I love those, they're so ancient.
Christine Malec (28:17):
Just for the record. JJ did look in the we
saw 2012 on one of thelifejackets. So it's not they're
not from 1833.
JJ Hunt (28:23):
Not really from 1833, they just feel like it.
Christine Malec (28:25):
They just feel like it. Now, can we talk about
the shape of the island? And youanswered a question, but I
didn't actually know it's 15separate little islands. So
there's I know from myexperience here, there's bridges
all over the place. But I neverthought much about what they did
and what was between them. Andpeople talked about canals. But
again, I was unclear. So it's acollection. The islands, the
(28:46):
islands making air quotesactually refers to 15 little
islands. So can we kind of talkabout how those are laid out?
JJ Hunt (28:53):
Yeah, in this in this, you know, this gentle C shape,
this, you know, crescent shape,little pockets, and some of them
are quite tiny. And they'reconnected by Little Foot
bridges. And some of them aresome of these islands are quite
large and have, like you saidcommunities of people on them.
So you get a sense of the canalsweaving between them. But you
(29:18):
don't necessarily recognize thatyou're on one island or another
you've just crossed to another.
It does feel quite connected.
Because of all these littlelittle island little bridges
that go from one to the othersummer quite high. Some of the
bridges are are fairly high andthat allows boats sailboats and
whatnot to go under. But somearen't. Some are like little,
(29:40):
you know, little, little tinyfoot bridges that don't have
much of an arc to them at all.
Christine Malec (29:45):
I believe the whole island is about five
kilometers across and from likehaving biked it and ran it and
walked it and yeah, I believethat's right. And so the
residential part is mostly inthe east and there's is a really
interesting and gamey historythere array of people who've
lived here and had recreationalproperties here,
JJ Hunt (30:08):
the islands got quite a history that that's, you know,
grew up with the City ofToronto, and obviously extends
well before colonization. So thethe kind of Toronto relationship
with the island, the moderncolonial city relationship,
there were times when the islandwas a place for summer homes.
And I think a lot of theoriginal houses that were built
(30:30):
here were built as summer homes,little cottagey kind of places.
And so the houses that are here,still, a lot of them still have
that cottagey kind of feel tothem. Instead of the brick
construction over here, you havea lot of Ford and bat. And
you've got a lot of wood frameconstruction, and some shingle
houses and things like that,that, you know, all the houses
(30:53):
over here have plumbing andelectricity, it says, you know,
these are fully service places.
But that's that it thatcommunity, I think, grew from
being a cottage place to being aneighborhood. And so it kind of
still has that feel, it'ssomewhere in between. It's not,
it's not quite like going, youknow, being in a in a in a
community of cottages. It's notquite like being in any other
(31:15):
neighborhood in Toronto, it'skind of some combination of the
two. But before that beforecolonization, these lands were
known to many differentIndigenous nations, the
Mississauga the credit, theAnishinabeg, the Chippewa, the
Haudenosaunee, and the Wendatpeoples all had relationships
with the islands, which I thinkback then most of the time would
(31:38):
have been a peninsula. By the1700s, this land, the islands,
they were being used as a placeof healing by the Mississaugas
of the credit. There's justsomething about this location,
the lands the relationship tothe to the shore, to the
mainland, the climate, thebreeze, it gave this place, a
real comforting kind ofrecuperative quality. And so the
(32:04):
people of the Mississaugas ofthe credit would come here to
the islands intentionally toheal if someone was unwell, they
would come and they would spendtime here so that their, their
their family member, thecommunity member could heal, it
then became a place forceremony. Lots of different
kinds of ceremonies held on thison the island, it was understood
(32:27):
to be a sacred spot. And, youknow, you and I were talking
about this on our way over here.
We know lots of people and weare people who have come to the
island at different parts in ourlives, to rest and to relax and
to recuperate. Not because of aconnection to you know,
(32:51):
indigenous spirituality. And notjust because it's a break from
the city. It is obviously it isa nice break from that kind of,
you know, city life and cityhustle and bustle and the noise
and whatnot. But beyond that,there's just a really lovely
peaceful energy here and thebreeze over here. And, and
(33:13):
honestly, that holds true notonly in the summer, when it's
gorgeous and sunny and and warmand you get a nice cool breeze.
But in the winter, when it'sbiting cold, it's raw. And
there's something about beinghere in the winter when it's
raw.
Christine Malec (33:28):
So true.
JJ Hunt (33:28):
It's wonderful.
Christine Malec (33:29):
And we're contradicting ourselves a bit
but part of the reason whythat's all true is a lot most
Torontonians don't come here.
Yeah, when you talk to them. Oh,yeah, I always mean to go and I
went there once and so not youknow, it's not like every
Torontonian has a relationshipwith this spot. And that's
partly why it's been I have
JJ Hunt (33:51):
That's right. That's right. Especially in the winter.
Christine Malec (33:53):
Yeah, oh yes.
JJ Hunt (33:54):
It does take an extra step you've got to go the
icebreaker boat. One of theboats does the icebreaker you
can't go to center island, yougot to go to the residential
dock. And then there's no thereare no services over here.
There's power but there's maybeone restaurant...
Christine Malec (34:08):
It's not for tourists in the winter.
JJ Hunt (34:11):
So you're coming over here in the winter, you know you
throw your skates in yourbackpack and you better be well
dressed. A couple of differenttouques and mittens and all your
all your gear because it's it'sbiting when it's so so
wonderful.
Christine Malec (34:27):
September, man.
Oh yeah. That's my my bestmemories. I'm not saying a lot
because I have so many goodmemories here. But September is
the best because you still gotgreat weather, maybe a little
crisp, but not so many peopleand bright sunny days. We're
almost in September, and I justYeah, it's a beautiful place.
Then there's recreational stuffgoing on here in the summertime.
(34:50):
So Centreville is this littlespot where there's rides and
bike rentals. And is there stillis there a log ride? The log
ride!
JJ Hunt (35:00):
Ya, the Zumba Flume or wherever it is.
Christine Malec (35:02):
Ha ha ha!
JJ Hunt (35:03):
Center island so sweet.
It's I mean it's a it's anamusement park that is, you
know, pretty clearly designedfor you know kids 10 and under.
So it's got a it's got a vibe toit. It's not like big roller
coasters and whatnot. centerisland has smallish rides,
select lots of little kid rides,including those, like old
fashioned cars on tracks. Solittle old fashioned cars that
(35:28):
you get to sit in a kid gets asteering wheel, but they can
only steer like three inches tothe right or left. Otherwise,
the car is just being bumpedalong by with it by a little a
little rail. And so that kind ofgoes through some of the old
trees that are here on theisland. And, you know, they have
paddocks where they have some ahandful of there's a little
island farm where it's like alittle petting zoo kind of farm.
(35:51):
And then it's got like a mainstreet kind of feel to it like
an old fashioned Main Street. Soall of the snack shops and the
ride entrances look like you're,you know, you're going into an
old fashioned ice cream shop orsomething like that. It's it's
it's got like an old timey kindof feel to it.
Christine Malec (36:09):
Is there still a cable car?
JJ Hunt (36:10):
Yeah!
Christine Malec (36:12):
The Cable car!
JJ Hunt (36:13):
That's a fun one, too.
Yeah. A little gondola thattakes you up and you can go kind
of over the city, or pardon meover the over the island.
Christine Malec (36:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so in the summer, of
course, you know, touristscommon and people, you get a lot
more than in the fall in thewinter. And I'm curious whether
what you saw on the ferry was arepresentation of what you see
in the city, because clearlythis is somewhere you'd come if
you were visiting the city, youwould you would come here, but
also, I'm just wondering thedemographic of what you saw on
(36:44):
the way over on a boat.
JJ Hunt (36:46):
So that's a good question on the ferry on the way
over here, I'd say that the kindof crowd that we were seeing
was, was pretty representativeof just the city as a whole,
lots of different groups ofpeople, different walks of life,
different ages, differentethnicities, different skin
tones, lots of cyclists, lots ofpeople with strollers, lots of
(37:09):
people families pulling thesekind of collapsible wagons. So
you know, you load up thislittle collapsible wagon full of
all your picnic supplies, andmaybe a little sun umbrella if
you're going to go to the beach,or you know, all that jazz, and
you wheel that onto the ferry,and we'll get back off again. So
the first floor of the ferry isall strollers and in people with
(37:31):
their bikes and people withtheir, you know, their
collapsible wagons, and whatnot.
And the second level is always alot of summer camps. So lots of
teenage counselors and dozensand dozens and dozens of kids!
Christine Malec (37:46):
Ha ha! There were gaggles of children.
JJ Hunt (37:47):
So excited to be on the ferry, they're running back and
forth, you know, holding on tothe oak railing and peering
through the wire mesh to see theisland come into view as we
approach and yeah, lots of lotsof different folks, lots of
different, like family groupsand friend groups. It's
interesting different times ofday. I laugh sometimes if I'm
(38:09):
here in the fall, fewer peopleso you kind of get a better
sense of some of the individualswho are on and even have the
experience. I don't know ifyou've had this before where you
kind of feel like when you comeover onto the island with a
group of people that's likethat's your group of people. And
then you kind of bump into themonce or twice on the Oh yeah.
And then you might see themagain on the ferry. So some of
(38:33):
that kind of goes on and I'veseen groups this always makes me
laugh but if you if you for somereason are coming over onto the
island in the evening, you mightsee a couple of people come over
just to take pictures on theferry or from the island and
then they immediately catch nextboat back Oh, so it's really
(38:56):
just like it's a ferry trip.
Yeah, like that's the day you goon the ferry. You take a couple
pictures you have a laugh, andthat's like a little you know,
little mini evening activity isjust just a ferry ride. And why
not I guess, it's a it's a niceplace to be.
Christine Malec (39:13):
I love boats.
People come here to party too. Ithink teenagers sometimes you
know, it was when you weretalking about the time of day I
was thinking about fairiesleaving the city at like you
know five six in the evening.
JJ Hunt (39:24):
That's right different demographic that's a different
demographic that's leaving thenthen you get a you know, some
that are gonna stay on a littlelater and have their beach party
and maybe they're gonna go overto the nude beach and have a
picnic and a fire in the eveningand you know, smoke weed they
want to smoke and have theirhave their good time.
Christine Malec (39:43):
Oh, yeah. Well, in our text exchange this
morning, the phrase to hammockscame up, and so I think that's
maybe in our afternoon, aclassic Island day.
JJ Hunt (39:57):
Ha ha! That's right.
We've got spanakopeta, chocolatecroissants...
Christine Malec (40:00):
Oh yeah.
JJ Hunt (40:00):
... and two hammocks.
Christine Malec (40:01):
That's what life on the island is all about.
It's what a visit to the islandis all about.
JJ Hunt (40:05):
I'm all about it.
This is the 119th episode ofTalk description to me. It's
also our last episode. For now.
In the two years we've been onthe air, we've covered
everything from riots to jazzhands tornadoes, to tick tock
trends, journeys into space towonders of the world. And I have
to say, we're proud of everyepisode. We're hitting pause on
(40:28):
our weekly release schedule, butwe're gonna keep our website and
podcast feed alive. Our hope isthat the show can become a
resource, a library of realworld description that members
of the blind and low visioncommunity can continue to tap
into, maybe you've got afavorite episode, maybe like us,
Your memory is less thanperfect, and you just want to
(40:50):
revisit something we'vedescribed. We hope that even as
an archive, the show cancontinue to reach new listeners
and be a source of informationand cultural literacy for the
community. So if you'reinclined, please keep sharing
favorite episodes and links tothe podcast feed. Although our
funding future is uncertain, welove this work. And we know that
(41:10):
we're not finished creatingdescription rich content. When
world events unfold, we'll tryto post breaking news episodes.
And when everyday descriptionsituations arise, or if we just
miss each other, we might hop ona call and conjure up a mini
episode or two. Our accounts onTwitter and Facebook will remain
active and will still be asource of innovative description
(41:33):
content. It's hard to put intowords what this work has meant
to each of us. And from emailswe've received along the way. We
know that the podcast has meanta lot to some of our listeners
too. As we step away from thisiteration of our collaborative
work, we do so with greataffection, some sadness, and the
certainty that there will bemore to come in the future.
(41:56):
Thank you for listening. We'lltalk again soon.
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