(RERUN) Sex, Music, and Religion - The Phoenix Rhodes Episode - Talk Dirty To Me

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, well, well, go ahead and open up your ears,
your mind and whatever else youneed.
You're listening to Talk DirtyTo Me.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Oh hello, all you sexy beasts out there.
Welcome back to Talk Dirty ToMe, the podcast where four
different friends with fourdifferent perspectives on sex,
kink and fetish talk dirty toone another.
We have a very exciting show togive to you today, but before
we do that, I'm going tointroduce our four hosts.
We have myself, casey Sammy, wehave Stephanie Slayton, sarah

(00:44):
Marie Curry and Tosen Awu Fesso.
Hey yo.
And our super special show todayis that we have a guest for you
.
We have Phoenix Rhodes on thepodcast today.
Say hello, phoenix.
Hey, thank you guys, so muchfor having me.

Speaker 5 (01:04):
Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Many of us on this podcast know Phoenix.
We're very excited to have her.
She has a very similar story toStephanie in that she was
brought up very religious.
Is that correct?
Penis, yeah, penis.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
How about everyone?
It's fine, it's fine, oh Penis.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
It's like I just called.
Anyways wasn't Venus, it wasn'tPenis, it was right in the
middle.
Anyways on brand on brand.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Space genitalia.

Speaker 6 (01:37):
Wait, isn't there a name for that?
Isn't that like the smegma?
No, that's wrong.
It's a do what.
That's also incorrect?
It's a taint.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:48):
You're talking about and you're outing yourself.

Speaker 6 (01:52):
What's the thing called in between the butthole
and the vagina hole, the taint?
Yeah, that's what I'm talkingabout.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
What why?

Speaker 1 (02:03):
We went from Phoenix to Taint.
So fast, don't go incrediblyfast, you're welcome.

Speaker 6 (02:09):
I don't, I don't know why, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Okay, we're just going to take a hard left off of
that conversation.
And where were we?
Phoenix Hi, what religion wereyou brought up in?

Speaker 4 (02:27):
I was brought up in evangelical Christianity.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Okay, so much.
Like Stephanie Tosen, were youalso brought up evangelical?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, Southern Baptist Coaching Evangelical.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah, I was brought up much more Pentecostal than
Stephanie was.

Speaker 6 (02:45):
Can you explain for the non-Christian in the room
what's the different?
What's the diff?
What's the diff?

Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah, okay, so I know Stephanie personally and I know
kind of how she was brought upand they don't dive so much into
like Holy Spirit speaking intongues kind of that vibe and
what I was brought up in wasvery much like Holy Ghost people

(03:13):
falling out in the morephysical in church, physical
manifestations, if you will, ofthe Holy Spirit moving.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Oh, cool or not have you ever seen memes or church
jokes about being like you'rehealed in the Holy Spirit and
people running around andshaking and stuff Sure and the
gospel.

Speaker 6 (03:34):
Sure okay.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
And Kojic, you get that.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, sweet, sweet.
How did that affect you as anadult when it comes to sex and
sexuality and being a woman?
Basically, what is your story?
Can you tell us your story?
I know you have a really goodstory.
I'm trying to figure out how toask the right questions to get

(04:00):
to it.

Speaker 4 (04:02):
I will try.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So obviously, being brought upthe way I was, I was taught
purity culture.
I was given a promise ring whenI was 13 years old from my
parents the only sex talk I hadwas don't do it and given a ring
to wear on my wedding finger.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
They even tell you how like, did they tell you
about sex, like what it was?
And nope, nope, they just toldyou not to do it.
So they didn't really tell youwhat not to do, they just told
you not to do it.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Just don't do it.
They just they had it's verystring awakening Faith that I
knew what don't do it meant yeah, no, literally like no talking
about it Um other than justdon't.
And so, you know, I like at 13,I'm giving the ring, I'm told
not to do it.
All I know is all you know.

(04:48):
I grew up a pastor's kid aswell, like all pastors, kids got
pregnant, all pastors kids.
Just, you're going to getcaught, you're going to get this
, and I have a sibling I sawkind of get caught in that and
it affected my parents.

Speaker 6 (05:02):
All pastors kids get pregnant.

Speaker 5 (05:04):
Well, I'm sorry, I know no one in the church.
I knew what I knew what shementioned as soon as she said it
.
But if you, if you, if you didnot grow up going to church,
every pastor I ever had theirchildren were like um, I guess
problem child is the wrong thingto say, Cause I can only
imagine what it was like to be apastor's kid.
But I think, when all eyes areon you at all times, it seems to

(05:26):
be that those kids tend to actout.
I see, I see.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
And I feel like in the same sense, though, the
parents of those kids feel like,oh okay, oh, my children just
know.
So, like me, I'm just given aring and told don't do it, and
they're just assuming that I'mjust, I'm not even going to get
anywhere close to that, I don'tneed to know what don't do it
means because I'm just.
That's just so far from what Iwould ever do, and I feel like.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
That's why, yeah, that it will never just creep
into your, like this wholeaspect of humanity and being a
person will just it will orbitaround you, but it'll never get
close to you.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
Yeah, and so I think a lot of, especially females in
that position by themselvespregnant because they were never
told how to not get pregnant.
They were never told what getspregnant, how it works, yeah, so
, okay, so yeah, so that was me.
Purity culture, big and throughBible college, all the whole

(06:27):
nine, like all of it.
And I know I've mentioned thisto some of the ladies in the
group, but I literally didn'tknow women could orgasm until I
was 17.
And I was in theater in my highschool and I was.
We were in the black boxtheater and I remember sitting

(06:49):
there and these girls weretalking about masturbating and
orgasming and I'm just liketurning inward because I just am
like be cool, don't just becool, just listen.
Oh my God, I had no idea.
I had always been told in thechurch world men are sexual
creatures.
Men have this problem.

(07:09):
Men can't control it, men haveto release it.
Men masturbate.
I had never been told womencould even masturbate slash.
Women could even have an orgasm.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
So wait, at 17 you hadn't had any like urges of
your own.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
I like I had kiss boys at that point.
I had messed around some atthat point, but I didn't, I
didn't know.

Speaker 5 (07:40):
There was a finish line.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, I just am like this feels good Things
feel tingly down below but Ididn't know we could have a
finish line, if you will, orsomething to work towards or not
, Mind blown, which then I triedfor years, like tried really,

(08:07):
and I had, God bless them.
I even looking back now I hadboys that tried and did well and
tried and know what was it thatyou think was keeping that from
happening.
I think a lot of it.
It was really deep,internalized, like To your

(08:33):
trauma and fear.
And again, in the evangelicalworld you're told like you save
yourself for marriage, right?
So even messing around, likethere's a part of you when
you're brought up in that worldthat even though like you're
into it and you're like shut upthat side, no, I don't, it's so

(08:59):
deep.
And sexuality, especially forwomen, is so much more mental, I
think, than for some people noteveryone, I don't want to put
that on everyone, but I thinkfor a lot of women it's more
mental than men maybe and again,I am just learning in this
journey and telling me I'm wrong, but it just I don't know.

(09:22):
I want to say I have now Idon't know.

Speaker 6 (09:30):
When did you lose your virginity?
Was it before marriage, kind?

Speaker 4 (09:35):
of oh okay.
I mean yes is the answer tothat.
And, geez, the only person I'veever told my husband this.

Speaker 6 (09:45):
And also you don't have to.
You can be like whoa, too spicy.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
No, um well, I didn't think this would come up.
I do really want to, asanonymously as I can, share my
journey, because I know there'sso many girls in my um from my
world, phoenix would you loseyour virginity.
I lost my virginity, um, so,technically I was 20.

(10:17):
And it was with a guy that Ireally trusted.
He was a really good friend.
But I got so, so drunk, so sodrunk and I did myself because I
had gotten to the place where Iwas like this ridiculous.
Like on one side I wanted to dothis, but on the other side I

(10:41):
was like you can't do this rightBecause of how conditioned I
was of like growing up the way Idid.
And so I got myself so drunkwith someone I trusted so much,
who was just such a gentlemanand so wonderful.
But I I get it's hard to explainwhere I know I said yes, I know
I consented, I know it happened.

(11:01):
I woke up the next morningknowing it happened, but I think
my mind and I know my mindblocked out a lot of it.
I like I have little flashbacksof it.
I like again know I consented100%.
He did not take advantage of me.
I went in knowing I wanted todo this in a safe environment
with someone I trusted.
But my mind because I and I dofeel it gets from the trauma of

(11:24):
growing up the way I did kind ofblacked it out.
And I woke up the next morningknowing it had happened.
Knowing, I said yes, but didn'tremember tons of it, did you
know?

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Did you know that you did you get drunk because you
knew you were going to do this?
And did he know that you guyswere going to do this?

Speaker 4 (11:48):
No, he was a close friend, if you will, kind of a,
you know, just a safe when wewere single, would you know,
make out and stuff.
Kind of friend and a fellowpastor's kid and a fellow, just
very respect he.
I just I trusted him and I andI knew if I he had always been

(12:11):
waiting for me to say yes andwould have loved for me to have
said yes many times before.
So I knew it all it took me tobe like let's keep going and
that would have been it Okay.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, all right, just just for the other young men
listening.
I do want to make aclarification.
This isn't I'm glad that thiswasn't traumatizing and that
like it's something that youwanted to do and go ahead and do
, but, gentlemen, that's stillnon-consensual.
So don't do that, don't, evenif they really want to be like.
If you really want to, let's dothis sober yeah, pretty please.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, they should always be sober, because we're
in a time and place now wherethat could get the dude in
trouble.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
So you know, and this was over a decade ago at this
point, and things havedefinitely shifted at this point
and and he even being a closefriend, he even didn't believe
that it was my first time untilthere was evidence throughout
that it was my first time, ifyou know what I'm saying.

(13:11):
And even that, like he calledme the next day and we had a
lovely conversation and he waslike I would never have gone
there knowing you were drunk butI not thought you had done it
before.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
So he didn't.
He didn't.
He assumed you had done itbefore.
It's not like.
You were like no, it's my firsttime.
And he was like no, it's not.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
Right, I didn't say yeah, and I should.
I'm, I'm again, I'm.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
I know what.
Like you did the best you couldat the time, there's no I
should have done something or Ishould have you like.
Literally this is what you werecapable of in a moment, because
it was a huge thing for you.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, and I'm just like, just I need to take this
huge pressure and this hugescary, whatever thing I've been
told like I need to.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
just I just yeah, and so was this the first and only
time that happened until youwere married.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
We quasi did it again another time, again super drunk
, and then the only other time Ihad like full intercourse.
I mean I did these other things, but what's up?

Speaker 6 (14:23):
Wait, do you say quasi cause you don't remember,
or quasi cause it was like justthe tip, that great kind of
thing, yeah, like just the tip.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
Pull it out, and that's it.

Speaker 5 (14:34):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
We're not really doing it, but like we kind of
did it, but like you didn't,okay, we'll let you know, One of
the great gifts that Christianhas given to me is the outer
course.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
God bless you.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
God bless you Do you want to know something funny.
And even my husband at thispoint he laughs about it.
So when the first time I youknow I'm alone with my now
husband, I told him because thiswas my role.
I always said one of us has tokeep our pants on.
You get to choose.
That's the stuff.
Now.
They always would choose.

(15:08):
They keep their pants onbecause you know, but that was
just always my role and it thatit worked for me.

Speaker 6 (15:17):
Quote unquote not really, but you know, so that's
a whole fetish, though or a kinkI'm not really sure which word
to use there of a man beingfully clothed and a woman being
fully naked.
That's like a whole sub genre,what?
Yeah, it's a sub genre.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
I didn't know that, I still did.
I'm learning this now.
For me it was the.
I can't have sex and I don'twant to put myself in that
position, and it's really hardto have sex if someone has their
pants on.

Speaker 6 (15:51):
Well I wonder if it's a chicken or the egg situation
Like it hits a lot of kink, likevulnerability and like subdom
stuff.
But also I wonder, likeStephanie pauses, that a lot of
the kinky fetish stuff comesfrom the Bible in the first
place anyway.
So maybe that, maybe that subgenre kink got developed because
there was a lovely lady one day.

(16:11):
That's like my pants are yourpants and the gentleman was like
oh your pants, you know.
And then he was like oh yeah,like that yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
The old, the old testament, is just a, just a
movie.
Yeah, really.

Speaker 5 (16:27):
It's super, is like like like triple X, rated or no
movie.
So if they, were to like, takethe old testament and turn it
into a series.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
Christians wouldn't watch it.

Speaker 5 (16:41):
No, it wouldn't be watchable.
Like I wouldn't watch itbecause it would be so
incredibly graphic and rapey andall of the things Incessity.
So when you, phoenix, when yougot with your now husband, was
that a conversation that youguys had early on?

(17:04):
That like, did he?
He obviously probably didn'thave the same issues.
Did he grow up in the churchlike you did, or did he
understand where that came from?

Speaker 4 (17:14):
Okay, he was very understanding, very
understanding, but coming intoit I was even still so.
I mean, I had lied about notbeing a virgin many times before
and I at that point technicallywasn't, but also I feel like
kind of technically was becauseI never had a like a memorable

(17:42):
never fully conscious, yeah,when it happened.
Yeah, he was the first person Iever felt comfortable in, like
really, just like, it's a wholething like to do that Like.
But when we first got togetherI told them I had had like two
or three sexual partners or Ican't remember at this point, at

(18:02):
this point now in ourrelationship I've since quote
unquote come clean and then liketotally lied to you because I
was so uncomfortable because youhad been in a rock band and
were the opposite of my journeyand you know, and I had come
across guys in the past who Ihad been honest about being like

(18:23):
oh yeah, I'm a virgin and likethey just run away, like not,
like I don't know what to dowith that.
I, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
So yeah, Did you have sex with him before you got
married?
Yes, oh yeah.

Speaker 6 (18:40):
When did you have your first orgasm?
Oh yeah, okay, hold on Like howold.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I want to wait, wait, wait, let's, let's do this
fully.
I want to rewind what day wasit what?
Was it.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
What were you wearing ?
What?

Speaker 2 (18:53):
were you wearing?
What did you?

Speaker 5 (18:54):
have for breakfast.

Speaker 6 (18:56):
I wasn't wearing anything.
She had her pants off, but thehead is on.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
So you said you didn't know that women could
have orgasms until you were 17,when you heard other women over
talking about it and you heardthem.
So how did you keep yourselffrom asking 10,000 questions in
that moment and did you go homeand immediately start Googling?

Speaker 4 (19:20):
Exactly I was in that moment, was embarrassed and
didn't want to come out that Ididn't know something like that.
You know what I mean, or didn't, and I also was like I don't
want to stop the conversationbecause I feel like I'm learning
so much just letting them talk,like I don't want to stop that
conversation.

(19:40):
You know what I'm saying.
And so, yeah, I basically wenthome and Googled my life away
and tried my damnedest, and youwent home and you were like I'm
going to make this happen foryears, and even with boys.
I don't, I, but I mean, I knoweverything goes in this podcast.
Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
I was going to say so .
You were unsuccessfulmasturbating as well.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
Yes, but definitely was not comfortable buying
anything to help me in thatprocess.

Speaker 6 (20:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (20:16):
Very, very relatable.
I was the same way and itwasn't until I got with my now
husband where he took me to buyboys like, and I was like in the
store having a absolute nervousbreakdown of shame.
Oh same.

Speaker 4 (20:35):
And my and my now husband knew me so well even
early on in our relationship.
Like he took me if this makessense to the Apple store of sex
toys, like it was the most.
Like modern sleep, you know,like build those weren't just
laying around, it was like justlike little pedestals with just

(20:58):
like a toy on.

Speaker 6 (20:59):
like it was the most store because I've never been to
the like, the very Todry like,not the one with the giant, the
apple store of like I want towalk in and have like a very
nice woman, be like hello.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
I would like to talk to you.
It was the most amazing lesbianwoman who was just like oh.

Speaker 5 (21:23):
I don't even know.
I have to ask him where it was.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
He had Googled the shit out of this was like I
don't want to scare her, let metake her to the most like just
palpable, easy.
And I go.
There's just one girl there andshe's just so.
She was like, hey, I'm justgoing to tell you, let me just
talk, let's just talk.
Like she was so, everything wasclean, modern, sleek.

(21:47):
There's no pictures anywhere.
It was just.
She was like let me tell youwhat this does.
I didn't speak a word the wholetime, to the point where we
even left and didn't buyanything.
And we get in the car and hegoes are you okay?
And I just go, I just likeshake my head, yeah, and I'm
like just need a minute, likeI'm just.
I didn't say anything becauseit was just this.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
All I had been told growing up sexually from women
in my life was from one womanwho had waited a long time she
said it's not really that greatand from another woman.
She called it servicing herpartner.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
And I knew from just feelings I had as a teenager,
encountering male interactionsnot sex but just touch and
kissing and that I didn't Werethese women your, your age or
older?

Speaker 5 (22:56):
No, older, see, and that's where my heart I kind of
figured that.
That's where my heart bleedsfor older generation women Like
I know that coming out orwhatever you call it at my age
felt like I was even moreembarrassed that I waited so
long.
But I can only imagine youprobably do get to a point where

(23:19):
that ship sails, or you feel asthough that ship sails.
So you get into your 40s, 50s,60s and you have these ultimate
desires, whether it be a king ornot, just the desire to enjoy
sex with your partner.
And I know that there's a largecrowd out there of women,

(23:43):
especially because it'srelatable, phoenix, what you're
saying is relatable because Igrew up in the church as well
and I remember hearing that frompeople and I remember hearing
it's just like a duty and it'slike what you're supposed to do
and you get beautiful childrenout of it and I was going.
That's not what it looks likein the movies, it looks like it

(24:04):
feels nice to both people and myheart just goes out to that and
makes me sad.

Speaker 6 (24:12):
That's OK, Stephanie, because once they reach the age
that they're in retirementhomes, they are banging like
crazy.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
That's true.
That is true, and my dad ranassisted livings for a long time
and assisted livings havehigher STD rates than the top
college campuses.

Speaker 6 (24:28):
Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:29):
Because those can Google that folks.

Speaker 6 (24:31):
Because those ladies are like oh, I am going to fuck
a lot, and work this out, and mydad would have.
Go ahead.
Well, my dad would have.

Speaker 5 (24:43):
My dad would have the children of the residents.
So adult children, come in andbe like.
I do not want my mother, I'mhaving sex.
Rooming next to this man andthey're like, well, we can't
tell her.
No, that's not how this works.
She still has full agency overherself.

(25:05):
Like the kids were more upsetat their parents being
promiscuous, and I think you doget to a certain age where
you're just like I don't reallyknow what happens after we die,
no matter how much faith I have,and I just need to make sure I
get one good sexual experience.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
This is why I think cuckolding is one of the more
wholesome kinks.
Just because I had read a sexstory about it once and I've
dabbled with writing a fewmyself.
That is like a lot of thereason.
I know a lot about it is a lotof cuckolding couples.
For people who don't knowthat's like a woman who is
telling their man that they'renot satisfying enough for them

(25:48):
so they're going to go findanother person that they usually
call a bull to have sex with.
That woman who's called a hotwife, so cucks the actual
husband who's not doing it.
Well, hot wife's the womanwho's looking for something else
.
A bull's the guy that comes inand do that.
That's generally in the pornsphere, black men.
So that's why I get a lot ofinformation about cucks and
cuckolding and stuff.

Speaker 5 (26:06):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a cuckold
situation the husband watches.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
yes, yeah, watches or .

Speaker 6 (26:12):
Is in the room.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
The main thing is being demeaned for not being
sexually satisfying enough, inwhatever way that is.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
And he.
I'm sorry, but the husband getsoff on that.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, and and here's why I find it to be beautiful In
several situations it's been acouple that met in the church.
They've gotten older andbecause the guys who grow up in
the church, who don't do thework to like become good at sex,
don't get good at it.
The women who probably marriedthem that's the only person they
have had sex with have beenlike I, you know, it's OK, right

(26:45):
.
They get older, they meetpeople, people talk about it.
They hear that like sex can bereally amazing.
They start swinging, they orhave an affair and like they're
like I really enjoyed this.
And it becomes beautiful becausethe guy who's either like you
know, just at the age where he'snot performing it that well,

(27:07):
but really wants to see his wifebe happy, is like yeah, go for
it.
And then it turns into thislike secondary, like enjoyment
for themselves of being likethis Now I'm able to please my
wife, which is again you grow upas a man in a church.
That's the whole game.
The way that they tell womendon't have sex and everything's
your fault is the way that theytell men is like if your family

(27:28):
and wife are not happy andprovided for you failed and so a
lot of cockles and couples Iget to are like this is me
succeeding and pleasing my wife.
Finally and it's really prettywhen it's pretty, sometimes it's
racist, but most of the timeit's pretty.

Speaker 6 (27:43):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
But you also can't talk about it in the church.

Speaker 5 (27:49):
That's right and like I remember.
I feel like I do remembersermons in the church about I
mean, obviously they weren'tgraphic sexual sermons, but I I
know that, like at my church,they talked about it as though
it was important or an importantthing, but again, we were never

(28:13):
allowed to talk about it inyouth group or to understand the
ins and outs of any of it.
So it just always felt like theblind leading the blind to me
when they would have these,these conversations or these
sermons, because I thought itjust watching my pastor walk

(28:34):
around on stage, I just knew, aseven a teenager, that guy
doesn't have sex, he doesn'thave good sex.
I mean, you could just tell itwas just it wasn't because of
how he looked or how he walkedor how he dressed, it was how he
talked and how he just was notintelligent.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Anyway, you could hear the like fear and hesitance
in his voice, still from whathe's been taught.

Speaker 5 (28:56):
Certainly, certainly, certainly, certainly certainly.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
We were talking about what happened.
What were you wearing all ofthat when you were about to have
sex and you said, well, thisisn't anything goes podcast and
we didn't get back to it.
I want to know what that was?

Speaker 4 (29:11):
That was Remind me.
Was it like my cognizant time,having sex or not?

Speaker 2 (29:18):
It was with your husband First time having sex
with your husband.

Speaker 5 (29:21):
Orgasm we're talking about orgasms?
Yeah, we're talking.
I think it was like maybe afterthe sex shop, like after you
guys went to the sex shop, I hadsex with him before I had
orgasm with him.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
It was weird.
It was, and I don't know how toexplain it.
I don't know if it was.

Speaker 6 (29:35):
It was like really tense and then an explosion.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
I had tried really hard on my own and I had guys
that even looking back now thatI have experienced it, they did
all the Like I don't know how ityou know what I mean Like I had
guys really do well at trying.
If you will I don't know if itwas this I knew he was my person

(30:03):
, kind of thing that even thoughwe weren't married, being
raised the way I was raised,finding my person, I was able to
turn that wall down or takethat that open, unlock that door
.
I was the act of being married.
Oh, I wasn't married when I hadmy first argument.

Speaker 6 (30:24):
Maybe it was the act of actually telling him about
your sexual that when I liedabout it.
Oh well, ok, he didn't know thetruth about it.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
I think I can.
I can kind of relate because Iwould tell myself, Luke and I we
obviously had sex before we gotmarried.
I would tell myself, well,we're married in the eyes of God
, so it's OK.
Like that's how I was able tokind of get, get through it,
because I was like, oh, I'm notgoing to, I'm not having sex
with anyone else and we'reliving together, and like this

(30:53):
is basically a marriage.
We just haven't gone in frontof a church or signed a piece of
paper.
Like I remember that needing tobe a thought process of mine to
like feel good about what I wasdoing, because I was so worried
about the fact that we were notmarried.
I remember we met up with somefriends of ours down the street

(31:13):
who he like now works for, andthey were on it.
They were asking him to playsoftball with them, and so I
showed up and sat with theladies at the softball game and
I knew they were all from churchor from.
They all went to churchtogether and they like were like
, oh, so you are in Lukatogether.
And I was like, yeah, we'reliving in sin and it came out of

(31:36):
my mouth and like I saw theirfaces, why?
No, I know it.
I like I cringe so hard when Iwhen I think about it now
because it just was like I knewthey were in the church and I
was like I can't hide that I'mliving with them and so I was
like we're living in sin,they're like we don't.
They were from a very coolchurch here in Austin and we

(31:57):
don't think that's been.
We all live together before wegot married and I like went home
and I like didn't speak becauseI was like, let's go.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
That's great.
Yeah, we're living in sin.
What did you do?

Speaker 5 (32:14):
And I can't even look at my square of myself.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yes, we're living in sin I thought I taught you love
weights camps, so I have, I have, I have done promise ring
ceremonies OK is it that yournow husband is a sex God?

Speaker 6 (32:36):
Like I mean he's a rockstar, he, maybe he also,
maybe he just like sex.
Goded through that boundary.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
I don't want to Bring down his excellence.
But I also have been honestwith him at this point that like
, no, like other guys, likeweren't bad, like they, they
really like and, and and I thinkthis, now that I think about it
, I think there are certain guysthat this really comes back to

(33:05):
a king gone of.
I was the one that theycouldn't get off the white whale
of the and.
I kind of one of my like firstboyfriend, sexual, like we
messed around.
Even after he was married hewould text me and reach out and

(33:27):
he always, when he was inbetween relationships are going
through a bad time, would reachout and it was always.
I always had this sense of Iwas the one that got away, like
I would, and he even in themoment would be like I've never
not made a girl finish, likelike he told me that in the
moment, like I got, like hetried so hard, he did a great
job, he tried really hard, but Ithink that was part of an

(33:49):
always coming back to me.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
So this has to make them finish.
Attitude that men have isterrible.

Speaker 6 (33:56):
Yeah, it's so much pressure.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, you guys, you got to stop.
You have to stop.
A vagina can only take so much.

Speaker 5 (34:04):
OK, I would.
I'm going to, I'm going to hopin real quick and say please
don't stop trying, stop doingwhat you're doing, because
obviously that's not working.
Read a book, learn anatomy andwomen speak out.
Yes.

Speaker 6 (34:19):
Women speak, or stop just verbalizing, like now you
come, it's like stop having sexto be about reaching an orgasm.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
I get the opposite.
I'm like I get don't come, yetI'm the guy in a relationship.
I've been this guy right.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
You know I was like have a perfect record guy.
Just it came from a differentplace for me.
But then, like it has to bedone.
It was like my self worth wasbuilt up in that.
Like it was like myopportunities for being with
women were small and then I feltlike if I was not successful,
then when that's what I deemedto be success, if I was not

(34:57):
successful, they wouldn't talkto me anymore and plus, that's
what got me the attention.
Like being growing up in thechurch, being the guy who was
known for eating pussy, was likewhat I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
In the church you were known for that.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
It's OK, so I my church thing.
I was your sentence, yeah yeah,my church upbringing is
interesting, right.
So I went to youth groups thathad what I like to call like
confession dumping, which wasjust a bunch of teenagers being
horny, telling each other abouthow horny they were with and
then going to church camptogether, locking them in rooms
with each other and being hornyagain.

(35:32):
And then preachers being like,don't be horny, and I'm like,
but we're here Horny, and so,and then we're all making the
adjustments that we make thatare just like OK, well, this
doesn't count.
Like I was not watching thistype of thing and my thing was
just like let me show you in thename of Jesus in the name of
Jesus.
It doesn't.
It's not a sin if I don't comeright.
So which is what I told myself,which is now a kink of mine and

(35:57):
or part of the problem?
But back to the.
That whole finished mindset islike yeah, one a thing that has
been very useful for me is notthinking that making someone
orgasm is a length is a singlelanguage.
You're learning a new dialectwith every person, right.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
My husband calls it learning a new instrument.
I was really good at violinwith my last relationship and
now I need to learn the clarinet.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yes, that is the better than mine, because it's
like you have.
You have a certain set of skillsets that come with it, because
, like, that's perfect, yeah,like you know the basic, you
know what 12 notes to use, butyou got to play different
melodies on every single onedifferent timbre.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
How many buttons does this?

Speaker 6 (36:34):
one have Different figuring.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Hey, yeah, New embouchures, new pressures, new
locations to put stuff.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Mouth positioning.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah.
Let's take this metaphor.

Speaker 6 (36:48):
The kids are always still sexual, yeah, well this.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
This is why I think musicians are good at sex in
general, because they areconstantly doing this dichotomy
of physical details to emotionsall the time.
Everything they're doingmusically is like I'm constantly
.
I have built into my fingersthe like ability to do, make and
feel emotions, and I know whatmathematically, scientifically
and emotionally all at oncewhich is useful for making sex

(37:18):
making the love sex.
But I.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
I would.
I really want to share thisstory just because I feel like I
wish other people knew this.
Ok, so I am the senior, this isbefore even new women could
orgasm, but I knew men did andit's my job to dress
appropriately and not be, youknow, any kind of hardship on
them and I'm at church camp onthe beach.

(37:43):
I'm in beach church camp in myone piece because we have to get
our one piece is checked offbefore we go to beach camp.
How old are you at?
beach camp, I would have beenprobably 14.
And you?

Speaker 5 (37:57):
have to get your one piece swimsuit checked off.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
We had to wear the equivalent of I'm an Olympic
swimmer, speedo, cover, all thethings, all of it.
Not cute, just.
And then boys just get to wearshorts and take their shirts off
.
Ok, so I'm in the ocean, I'm 14.
I'm with one of our quoteunquote youth group leaders

(38:22):
who's a senior in high school,he's 18.
But he's like respected as aleader in the youth group and we
are like out in the waves withthis boy from a different church
, from a totally different state, and I'm just listening and
this boy is asking the leader inmy youth group, who is also a

(38:44):
teenager but man, like I reallywant to masturbate, like and I'm
just listening, I'm just like.
I'm just like frozen like becool, be cool.
And we're in the ocean.
And the leader in my youthgroup said man, it's totally
natural.
It's totally natural, do it aslong as you are not lusting

(39:08):
after anyone else.
You just internalize it andmake it a physical thing.
It's OK.
What?

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, that's, that's the line that is some.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
But that is something that 15 years, like 16, 17
years later I struggle withbecause at such a pivotal point
in my sexual journey, like earlyin my sexual journey and in my
upbringing, I was like, oh OK,so like, if you have, if you

(39:39):
match and at that point I didn'tknow when it could masturbate.
But when I did learn they couldmasturbate, I applied that to
it.
I was like, ok, try as hard asyou can, but just internalize it
, just think about your feelings.
Or if you can't think aboutsomeone else, because then
you're lusting, then you'rethinking of someone else's

(39:59):
husband, then you're sinning.
If you just keep it as a turnyour brain off thing, you'll be
OK, it's not a sin.
And that's something that Istill.
I am still.
I've been in therapy, still instruggling to like turn off in
my brain.
My husband jokes.

(40:20):
He's like like he even jokes.
He like tries to make things Icould fantasize about.
He's like please, please,fantasize about something.
And I'm like I would love to.
That sounds great and it's justreally something I struggle
with because that story hit meso hard at such a weird age in
the environment I was brought upin.

Speaker 6 (40:41):
Do you read erotica?

Speaker 1 (40:43):
I was about to be like I'm going to have to write
you up on Phoenix.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
So my my first.

Speaker 6 (40:51):
All of us are going to send you so many
uncomfortable things now.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
As a teenager, my first experience of ever like
feeling turned on was by myselfreading erotica.

Speaker 6 (41:01):
OK.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
And I knew that was possible, right.
So that was great and lovely.
And even then, like I know thatstory to this day, like I know
that first story, I was justgonna ask do you remember what
happened in the story?

Speaker 5 (41:17):
Do you wanna say you don't have to say?

Speaker 4 (41:18):
I do.
I will.
It's cool, I'm a random person.
It was a story of girl breaksdown on the side of the road.
Guy comes to save her and againI'm a young teenager at this
point.
Guy comes to save her Superconsensual, but also like kind
of Forceful.
Forceful but like in, like aconsensual way, and then you're

(41:40):
doing it in the car, uh-huh,okay, and that was like the
first thing and like she waslike into it the whole time.
But he took control.
And again growing up, feelinglike I never knew anything and I
had to always rely on the guysknowing things, the guy taking
control was always what I reliedon, like well, they're gonna

(42:01):
know what to do, right, and he'snot going to be a virgin when
we get married.
Well, they're going to teach methings.
Well, they're gonna.

Speaker 6 (42:08):
They're going to take care of me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
And something I've talked about with other
Christian friends of mine.
One thing that we have incommon is that our spout, we've
found ourselves in situationswhere, at one time or another,
our spells have said like I wishyou would initiate sex.
That's my, my qualms, and for meI would be, and it's certainly

(42:36):
an idea of rejection, is thefear there, but it's because
your whole childhood and growingup, all I've been, all I was
ever told, is like you do notcall a boy boy, you certainly
don't make the first move, youcertainly you.
That was like something youjust don't do for sheer of like.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
If your morning shut it down, you shut it down.
You don't go ask for sex.
You shut it down Because youhave to, because you have to be
the virgin.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
The boy doesn't, but you have to, Right right, yep, I
was going to add on, becausethey also are like men are
incompetent in the ways ofresistance and dealing with
their own sexuality.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
I would also.
It's kind of off topic, but Ijust want to say that, also
living in a world where some whoare in more than one
relationship somebody has askedme to initiate more, the other
side of that story is theyinitiate so much it doesn't need
space Anybody else to initiate.
And they're like why don't youinitiate?

(43:38):
And I'm like I don't have to.
You're a horny every 40 secondsBecause if you want me to
initiate, you have to chill outlong enough for me to be like
okay, let's do this now and theninitiate.
And then there were two timesin the last relationship where
this happened to, where I waslike oh, I can initiate now, and

(43:58):
both times he was like I don'tfeel like it.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
Well, and your initiation.
Jail looks different than hisinitiation right, Like because
of spontaneous arousal versusthe other one that I can never
remember.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
Responsive.

Speaker 6 (44:15):
Responsive.
Thank you, right.
Like my like being like hey, Iwonder if huh is different than
his.
So I've probably beeninitiating the whole time.
Mister, I don't know who I'myelling at.
I'm yelling at a pretend person.
I also said somethingdisparaging about boys earlier

(44:38):
and I don't want it tied back tomy husband, meaning that is not
from direct experience and Idon't know what it is or what I
said, but I put a pin in it andthen I promptly forgot about it.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
If they've been listening to the podcast, we
know your husband's top tier.

Speaker 6 (44:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Good, good, good good .

Speaker 4 (44:54):
That's just mine.

Speaker 6 (44:55):
I hope.
I hope my mind's not a sex God,but he is a really good singer,
so it's private.
It's private.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
It's private.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
It's private.
That's disparaging Phoenix.
Did you get the rose talk?

Speaker 4 (45:07):
I did.
Oh yes, oh yeah.
You are a flower passed aroundand you don't want to be
crumpled up when you get to yourhusband and oh, I mean, I had-.
Who's gonna?

Speaker 5 (45:19):
want the flower now.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
When I was giving my promise ring, it was a red stone
and I was given the talk of letthis be a reminder.
Look down at your finger thatthis is a stop sign, and also
look down and remember the bloodof Jesus.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Oh my God, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow,
wow, wow.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
I still have this ring.
I don't wear it.
I still have this ring.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 6 (45:52):
I thought that they were gonna talk about menstrual
blood or something.
No, that was my sex talk.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
I would have preferred that in the blood of
Christ.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
I remember too, like even like I was so grateful to
have like a mom who was likeokay with tampons and like that
might be crazy, but like in theevangelical world that's a thing
like anything going up there islose the opportunity.

Speaker 6 (46:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
And my mom was like- Some people that are so
religious that they don't weartampons because they think it's
penetration and it's 100% Amillion percent, crazy yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
A million percent.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I have to believe in it.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
Let that sink in.
I literally let's like, leaveus.
I was like I was theunderground railroad of tampons
in the Christian world.
I was like, let me teach you,take my advice more.
Let me show you you can go tothat pool party, girlfriend, I'd
rock you.
Wow, I at least had that goingfor me.

(46:53):
But like, even then, like therewas just zero talk.
Zero talk about anything otherthan look at that red stone on
your finger and it's a stop signand it's the blood of Jesus.

Speaker 6 (47:06):
Yeah, but like where's the intersection and how
fast are you going?
Like they didn't give you anyother traffic instructions at
all, yeah just stop.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
This is unsound driving advice.

Speaker 6 (47:16):
Yeah, it's bad.

Speaker 5 (47:17):
It's literally the worst, like it really is a it's.
I have religious trauma, but Idid have parents that spoke to
me about sex, and so I'm reallygrateful for that.
I don't know what I would havedone had I not had that even
that small of a roadmap.
Like my heart really does goout to you and anybody in that

(47:43):
situation, because that's I knowso many.
I mean.
This is the weird thing is thisis not a singular story.
This is so many people's storyand it's so many women's story
Because, again, I think even themost religious boys out there
their dad at some point leansover and talks about a playboy

(48:05):
or talks about masturbation ingeneral.
No, I know that my parentstalked to me about sex.
Not one person said one thingto me about masturbation, and so
every single time it happened,I literally just prayed for
forgiveness afterwards because Iwas like, oh, I know I just did
something really wrong and thenI felt gross and I felt like

(48:27):
scared to be like around myfamily.
I was like my parents are gonnaknow like it's gonna be like
written all over me like ascarlet letter.
And that's like the lack ofknowledge and the lack of
educating your children reallysets them up for in my opinion,
sets them up for a rough roadwhen it even is the right time
to have sex.
Like, let's say, you do followall of the rules and you wait

(48:51):
till the day that you getmarried to have sex.
Do you think you're gonna havea good sex life if you know
nothing about it?
Like that's the mostunrealistic, but that's what
they sell you.

Speaker 6 (49:03):
They sell you 100%, Yep.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
And I will say and I have to give it this if two
people grew up in a box and hadno outside, they had no screens,
no magazines, no stories, nointernet, no everything.
They're just two people grow upin a box and they get to
explore their sexuality together, that's a beautiful idea, 100%.
I'm here for that.

(49:25):
I don't want to.
I'm not gonna make anyone growup in a box, but I'm just saying
I feel like that's whatChristianity tries to sell is
that two people have nothing andno knowledge and no
preconceived ideas, and they'rejust gonna go into marriage and
it's gonna be this beautifulmoment and they're gonna learn
together and melding and growingtheir sexuality, but that's not

(49:49):
realistic.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Especially at the day , they'll feel awkward and dry.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
Well, and someone's gonna know something that other
one doesn't know.
Yeah, from a movie, from astory, from a friend.

Speaker 5 (50:01):
Or someone's gonna have a kink, and since they were
four and go, I don't know wherethis fits into any of this shit
.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
So and that's where I just feel like.
That's where I feel like it's,I mean, so many ways the church
lets us down in this world, butthat's where I feel like there's
never been an open conversationand why I was like, so apt to
like.
I want to be on this because Iam trying to grow from my
experience, I am trying to learn, and you guys have created such

(50:29):
a comfortable platform ofliterally just talking about
your kinks, talking about yoursex life, and it's so amazing
and it's so needed, especiallyfrom the world I grew up in,
because no one in my world doesit and someone needs to hear

(50:49):
somebody making it okay, andsomeone needs to hear someone
going yeah, and I have a job andI'm like a normal person, but I
also want to do X, y and Z andit's cool.

Speaker 6 (51:02):
Thank you for one.
Feeling like this is a safeenvironment, cause.
That's what we've beenfostering so so aggressively,
violently fostering safety andcomfort.
I sincerely hope that there arepeople that there's some 14
year old girl who's like, oh mygosh, there's this podcast
called Talk Dirty to Me, oh, andthen they end up listening to

(51:23):
it and learning and then havingamazing sex.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
The whole life.

Speaker 6 (51:27):
Yeah, when they're old, I had to prop when they're
ready for it.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
When they're ready for it there it is there are no
proper it's just when they'reready, right.

Speaker 5 (51:34):
And that was my one fear is, when we had decided to
call this talk dirty to me, Ithought, oh, it's gonna like it
sounds like all we're talkingabout on here is like dirty
things, when I think that's kindof.
The beauty of it is this isdirty, this is dirty to a lot of
people out there, but thebeauty of it is that it

(51:55):
shouldn't be at least I don'tthink it should be, especially
when the majority of us here arecoupled.
We are with somebody and like,whether you are or not cause I
certainly don't feel like youhave to be married when you have
sex.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
In fact, I don't think that at all.
That was for me.

Speaker 5 (52:11):
Everybody Stephanie said that, for me no no, I was
actually backtracking because Idon't want anyone out there
thinking I'm on the side of likeyou should only have this with
someone you love.
I think you can have excellentsex with someone that you don't
love, but the point of it is isthat we are having conversations
that I've come across with somany other people who they feel

(52:32):
like they're the only ones thathave experienced that, and
there's a whole vast world ofpeople out there experiencing
the same thing and feelinglonely and feeling like they
don't know where to turn or theydon't know what to do or how to
bring it up to their spouse.
Because there also is theChristian couple out there who's
22, who they get married rightout of college and they do want

(52:57):
to make it work, but they'restuck and they don't know what
to do.
And if they try somethingoutside the box, is that a sin?
And I think that's why I stilltry to be careful of like
bashing the hell out of church,because it is a lot of my roots
and I also know the people thatare there and so many of them

(53:20):
are really lovely and I deserveto have a wonderful sex life.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
That's all I'll say, and that's my thing I said, mike
, and I think that's why I askedfor my an anemone.

Speaker 6 (53:31):
An anemone, an anemone, an anemone, an anemone.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
Is because I definitely have a lot of close
people in my life in that world,and I am the one that no, I'm
the crazy liberal one, but Ialso, at the same time, I want
to find a way, even though I'vekind of walked away from that
world, like, how do I?
All in all that's why I wantedto share my story was?

(53:57):
There's that girl that islooking for podcasts, that is
looking for someone with herstory.
That's looking for someonesaying I didn't know you could
work as until I was 18 years old.
That's looking for someonesaying I still can't fantasize
and I feel like I'm broken and Ifeel like something's wrong
with me because I can't getturned on by just thinking about

(54:20):
something else.
However, if I do, it's over andI can't transition that into
the bedroom.
I am that person that's walkingthrough my sexual journey from
such stripped sexual ideologiesgrowing up.
I just want them to know.
I mean and I'll say this outloud I can't wait for the day to

(54:44):
be like I don't think my mom'sever had a vibrator in her life
and I'm like how do I bring thatup one day?
I want to bring that up one day.

Speaker 6 (54:52):
I don't know how to bring that up.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
One day, christmas gift, perfect time, I know I
never thought there was, butit's just something as simple as
that of like.
There is this, even like.
Let's paint this picture withinthe church evangelical world of
like you're supposed to be thislion sex goddess when you get
married because that's what theytell you you can't have sex,
pretty, get married.
But when you get married, justlike, everything's going to be

(55:14):
gray and you're just going tolike, wear the things and do the
stuff and be this like goddess,like that's what they just sell
you, right?
Like everything.
If you wait, it's going to beworth it.
You know what I mean, but atthe same time I didn't even know
vibrators were a thing.
Yes, I mean after I got with myhusband, like I just want to be

(55:38):
like okay, but like y'all know,there are things you can use to
help you.
There are things that, even inthe marital bed, most women need
clitoral stimulation,stimulation, stimulation, thank
you To achieve orgasm, likesomething that even see a lion

(55:59):
in the bedroom.
Never talked about sex toys.
Why aren't we talking about sextoys in church?
Right Women's conferencesetting?
It's all women.
Men aren't there.
How is that never brought up?

Speaker 5 (56:12):
Not to mention there's a huge percentage of
women whose bodies cannot havean orgasm with just a male's
penis inside of them.
They need something else.
Why is that not talked about?
Talk about a husband feelinglike he's letting their spouse
down every single time whenreally she's going oh this is my

(56:32):
body, is this isn't?
You're not doing it right forme?
I mean, you're doing it the waythat novice books on sex say to
do it.
But, like, sex is so manydifferent things and achieving
an orgasm means so manydifferent things for so many
different people and it looksdifferent for different people.
And I did want to ask Phoenix,did you so?

(56:55):
You didn't buy a toy the firsttime you went?

Speaker 6 (56:58):
Did you go back?
And buy a toy yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:00):
Did you ever go back At the Apple store?

Speaker 4 (57:02):
No, he, he bought me a toy online afterwards.
So we leave the Apple store ofsex toys, we don't buy anything
because he's like I don't.
You know, I just needed tobring her here to like open this
world.
He buys me a sex toy.
It gets delivered to his house.
The next time I come to visit,he gives it.
He gives it to me Un-opened Inthe box.

(57:23):
In the box and he says I wantyou to, and we weren't.
I was living in a differentcity at the time.
He was like I'm not openingthis, we're not opening this.
I want you to take this homeand I want you to use it, not
use it, throw it away.
I mean, he was just so perfectabout it knowing by bringing it.

(57:44):
And I went home and I I feellike I kind of achieved like a
shitty one by myself with theprop, with the toy.
But there's no way like in asexual encounter in that place
in my life I would have everbeen like bring it on.

(58:04):
Yeah, open the box.
Like he was so smart to be likewe're not opening it, we're
just going to get home with you,throw it away, I don't care.
And I took it home and I so Iguess, yes, my first orgasm was
by myself, but with assistance,but with assistance I didn't
know existed.

Speaker 6 (58:22):
But when was your first like orgasm and did it
blow your mind and vagina?

Speaker 2 (58:30):
That's putting too much pressure on an orgasm.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
Smc, oh no no, no, no , I, I, I feel like or was it
like a slowly building like the?

Speaker 6 (58:41):
your first orgasm was like shitty orgasm shitty being
not an operative word in orgasmbut like it got better and
better each time.
Like tell me the journey of theorgasm.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
Yeah, no, definitely it's gotten better over the
years.
Like that first time with apartner, it was just kind of
like you know, you're going upwith them out and and then I
feel like the best way toexplain it is like I got to the
tip of the mountain and likejust took a step over and then
got just so excited.

(59:16):
That didn't happen but likenothing else could happen.
It was the journey's over.
This is achievable with anotherhuman being.
So, so my mind just went likeout from there.
So no, it's definitely grownsince then.
And like Because it's.

(59:36):
It's still something that I,like Google and my they're early
thirties of like how to makethis better, how, like because
there there is this, there isthis thing built into you,
growing up the way we did oflike oh I, I still feel like I'm
not experiencing things the wayI should.
I still have this guilt of youaren't.

(59:56):
You aren't experiencedexperiencing sex in its fullness
.
You aren't experiencingyourself in its fullness,
because you're still guarded,you're still locked off, even
though I have walked away frommy all media is a lying liar
about that.

Speaker 6 (01:00:10):
Anyway, I was finally watching some passion flicks,
which was my homework, from, I'mpretty sure, episode one or two
and this.
There was this like beautifulmovie.
It happens in like 90% of thesemovies on passion flicks.
There's that moment where the,the gentleman, and the lady, are
making up the love and he iskissing on her neck and then he
like kisses all the way down togo to downtown on her neck and

(01:00:33):
her, like her back, does like ayoga move that Casey probably
knows, like a whole inverted,like she inverts I don't know
how, but she like rises, likeshe's getting like Kali Ma, like
her heart is being removed fromher chest, like the exorcism
she's still the sex demon, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
And like vagina just rises to meet his mouth.

Speaker 6 (01:00:54):
The second.
The second that it is clear.
The second that his mouthdescends upon her in even the
nearest of breath.
She is like yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
And you're like is this whatit's telling me?
This should feel like Right,that's not not bad bad
advertising.
Passion flicks Like I getyou're, you're getting better at

(01:01:17):
like showing like oh, this ishow a woman gets turned on
versus how a man gets turned on.
But that's not accurate eitherand it's making me feel bad, you
fuckers.
Yeah, and also I'd like to sayfor the record and then I
promise I'll shut up when I saidearlier that Brian was a good
singer, I now realized that wewere correlating his ability to

(01:01:38):
sing with the instrumentationprowess of feeding his.
God husband.
And I would like to say for therecord that in the analogy, my
husband is a multiinstrumentalist there.
Okay, now I'm done, I'm done,I'm done.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
And each episode, SMC has given us just a little bit
more, a little bit more, alittle bit more.
I know it's great, I'm so herefor it.
No, that's still private.

Speaker 6 (01:02:08):
She gave us a graphic description of her orgasms
earlier.
Did I, that's true, how I meanlike in a, in a tent?
And then an explosion.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Don't bring it up or she'll make us edit it out.
That's not.
That's not my orgasm.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
You don't know me.
Margaret's a private, they'reprivate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Do you guys remember in high school when you heard
that if you had sex with lots ofdifferent men, your vagina
would get loose?
Right yeah, that was a no right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
Because we didn't have sex with lots of men.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
So that was like if you were a slut, you were loose,
you were loose, and then that'swhat's good.
But, what is?
That's just like patriarchy tothe max, because what but you
can?
You can get married to a manand have X thousands of times,
and your vagina will remainintact and very tight.

(01:02:58):
What kind of?

Speaker 6 (01:03:00):
garbage is that, unless you're thinking, who are
thoughts, and then it gets loose.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
What was your intent?
Is what she's asking.
Were you in a good relationshipor were you in a simple
relationship, because one opensyour vagina more than the other,
apparently?
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
I just wanted to say that for any other young women
out there who are repeating thathypocrisy around school,
thinking that their vagina isgoing to be ruined if they have
sex with multiple people Fromsomeone, who has children, and
from someone who's married to aman who has sex with, who has
had sex with women, who has hadchildren and not had children.

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
That's the only difference.
It's not if you've had sexbefore, have you pushed a baby
out there before?
That's the only difference I'veever heard.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
My other thing I wanted to say in regards to
waiting until you meet the rightone is that I think there's
myself included many people whohaven't had experiences of being
in a relationship with someoneand it being great and you
waiting a long time to dosomething and you do that thing
and you're just incompatible.
You're incompatible not onlyjust because you're incompatible

(01:04:09):
, but also there's DNA andhormonal and physical things
happening inside your body thatallow you to couple well and not
couple well with someone.
Sometimes you get to that stateand there are natural, normal
things that occur that repel twopeople because they wouldn't

(01:04:30):
make good babies together.
Waiting until you get marriedto have your evolutionary what's
the word?
I want To have your biologicalimperative your biological
imperative.
Thank you To have yourbiological imperative tell you

(01:04:52):
that this is not the one istragic.

Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
Oh, it's a big ol' risk.
Like that's a risky little game.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
This is why I think we should stop calling the sex
that church pedals vanilla.
It should be a kink, because itsounds kinky.
It sounds monotony should be akink.
Waiting forever into the cornerand then like taking a guess on
two people having sex with eachother that's some kinky shit.
That's wild.
That's that's some strangers inthe park.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
I just want to comment on that of like.
I totally hear you feel youlove it.
Oh, my God, when I first, whenI was going through that journey
of like, having sex with myhusband for the first time who
wasn't my husband at the timeand it was the first time I had
had a sexual encounter that mygut, soul I don't know what you
want to call it didn't feel badabout.

(01:05:47):
I don't know how to explainthat from someone who has quote
unquote deconstructed, fromsomeone who has quote unquote,
like not walked away fromspirituality I still am very
much a spiritual person but fromthe event open church, for sure
there is something thatespecially being brought up the
way I was there I don't know howto make this sound not cheesy

(01:06:09):
he was the first person I justhad this like soul connection,
oh, like I felt good with.
I felt not like this felt rightwith and other times had felt
good physically but I wouldalways feel bad mentally and he
was the first person that didn'tfeel bad, even pre marriage, in

(01:06:31):
my gut and at that time I wasstill leaving worship and like
very much in the church and Iremember having lunch with a
friend being like I don't knowwhat to do with this.
Every other sexual encounterI've ever had in my life I felt
guilty about it, felt good inthe moment, but I always leave
feeling guilty about it.
I wake up the next day feelingguilty about it and this is the

(01:06:52):
first time I don't feel guiltyabout it and I'm not married.
What is that?
I don't.
I'm my mind's blown.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
This is, that's my whole church, because I was, I'm
queer and so my sex strugglewhen I was going through church
was like I want to suck dicksand like there's, you don't,
there's no way to say anythingabout it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:12):
The church there's no level of that being okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
I was like, no, don't , don't go.
Yeah, being queer, a black manin the church that's the lead
worship musician like can't doit.
What I, what I realized, is ajourney that went on for a long
time, is like transitioning fromevery sexual desire that I have
being challenged by the word ofGod to I'm allowed to be

(01:07:35):
present here and enjoy what'shappening, because it was always
a battle of like this momentfeels good enough that I can
turn off all of the church stuff, but as soon as I climax or the
moment is over, this is thechurch stuff has been screaming
the whole time, and so then I'm,then I got the whole rest of
the day, the week.

(01:07:56):
For me it was I need to runback to some type of sexual
experience so that I can silencethis guilt, and I need it to be
silent so that I can performchurch later because I'm I was
deep in it.
I was like the path of me thatwas like the church part of me
was trying to pay for all of thehorny stuff I was doing.

(01:08:16):
So I was like be youth pastor,teach youth camps, through all
these things, and so the what I,what I realized, is like why
that feels so good to make thatsoul connection to be like.
I am here present enjoying this, because this is a beautiful
thing that human beings shouldbe doing and and it is holy God
intended it to be this way builtmy body this way to feel these

(01:08:37):
way about these things when theyenter into my soul and
connecting with a person thatway.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
It's such a slut y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
It's kind of wasn't a slut, he wouldn't make so many
goddamn things feel good.
Ok, listen to me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
God knows God's like guys.
I'm going to give you someholes and they're going to be
awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
And like a lot of them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
And that's why I like music so much, because it was
one of the only things thatcompeted with horny, which is
why I've always made theconclusion.
I was like this really has tobe about connection and
expression and all of thatbecause I can play piano enough
to like satisfy myself, and thatwas one of the things that
started making me exit and beinglike because all the biblical

(01:09:20):
stuff about why not to do thisis wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
Can I tell you my mind blowing experience of that?
I grew up.
I'm a musician and I grew upvery much in that world and I
grew up very much where, likethe music portion of church was
where you were emotional, whereyou could let go, where you
could physically cry, lift yourhands, jump, clap, move your
body, release things that now Iknow are just things your body

(01:09:45):
needs to do.
But the first thing that blewmy fucking mind was I was in an
acting class and this is goingto sound absolutely insane, and
Stephanie knows when I'm talkingabout.
I was in an acting class and wehad this.
She was there.
We had this crazy night calledDancing Underpants Night.
Now, I was not in a bra andpanties, it was think Tom Cruise
and a like giant T-shirt.

Speaker 5 (01:10:06):
It was basically just wear clothes where your body
can move.

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
Yeah, but like you're not in jeans, you know, like
you're a little bit like youknow and pick whatever yeah,
risk keeping things.
Pick whatever song you want andyou get in front of your class
and this was like a year longintensive.
So you're in front of peopleyou've been around all year.
You get up in front of theclass and the song you picked
plays and you're supposed todance like no one's watching and

(01:10:34):
the coach is going to make youcontinue to play the song until
she feels like till.
They feel like till.
He feels like you, legitimately, are moving and have a let go
in a way that no one's watching.
And I knew this night wascoming.
I come prepared, I have a jam.
I'm like, yes, I have a buttonup for my now husband.

(01:10:56):
I'm like, yeah, and I get infront and I do the experiment,
the exercise, and I sit down.
I can't stop crying for likethree hours because it was the
first time in my life that Iever had like an emotional
spiritual encounter moment.

(01:11:20):
Experience.
Thank you, that wasn't at analtar and it blew my fucking
mind.

Speaker 5 (01:11:29):
And it was so interesting to watch as an
outsider because I did not knowPhoenix very well at this point.
I mean, we knew each other forsure, but we were really new in
a friendship and everybodypicked.
When the song they told you topick was the song that, like,
what is the song that pumps youup?
What is your?
What is the song that, justlike it comes on and you can't

(01:11:50):
not move your body and so youwatch person after person go up
and there is a little bit ofnervousness of just acting silly
, like it's not good dance moves.
It's clearly like jumpingaround and just feeling like the
song Right if you don't.
And so you've seen people go upand it is purulation.
It was like watching somethingovercome somebody, and it wasn't

(01:12:13):
until learning about her lateron that I really understood that
moment to be something so muchmore for her and it was really.
It's really one of my favoritememories, looking back, of that
particular acting experience,because it wasn't always great.
That was something where Iwatched a person who was used to

(01:12:36):
being really perfect and goodat everything and she was great
at this too, but I watched herlet go and not give a flying
about what anybody thought ofher or it just felt good to her
from head to toe, felt good andit was an emotional journey for

(01:12:57):
her and a really beautiful oneto watch.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
This is perfect, because one of the things I
wanted to say to you earlierbecause you were talking about
like going on a journey andtransitioning from like how do I
fantasize, how do I get pastthis block and I was trying to
do the same thing and it wasgoing about it, at least for me.
I think it's gonna work thesame way because you're a
musician and you might get itPlease, please I was going about
it backwards trying to do that.

(01:13:22):
But can you all hear this?

Speaker 6 (01:13:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
So you've grown up the whole time with the tools to
let your body experience all ofthose fantasies the whole time.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
Oh, I've led congregations to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
And so the whole process of fantasizing, enjoying
being present, all of the waysthat you can explore it is all
the same mechanisms of leadingworship and being in worship in
general.
You can have sex like andputting those two together for
me where I was like, puttingthose two together for me where

(01:14:00):
I was like, oh it's all the samething, where, literally, like,
I am going through all of thesame processes of intercessory
prayer and worshiping andleading worship and letting
myself go to the like hands ofGod and the Holy Ghost while I'm
eating, somebody out camechanging okay.

Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
But it's all spiritual, it's all coming from
that same.
Sorry I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Came, please.
Yeah, we got you girl, we gotyou.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
I have musically pushed people to changing their
lives over and over and over andover and over and, like I know
it, scientifically andemotionally.
And I just wasn't applying thesame thing to myself because the
church said for so long this isa form of connection you're not
allowed to have with people.
This is not a form ofconnection you're allowed to
experience, which really wasjust old men trying to deal with

(01:14:53):
their own horny and like justit didn't make sense.
But it was like, if I thinkabout one biblically doesn't
make sense.
There's no like biblicalstandpoint for all this.
And if I think about, likeeverything good that I got from
going from church, therelationship that I grew up and
fostered and worked onspiritually, there is no way

(01:15:16):
that that God does not want tobe having the sex I'm having now
.
There's no way, seriously, theywould.
They have to be up there beinglike, what the fuck have you
been waiting for?
You guys didn't hear not doingbutts about the whole time.
What do you think I gave you abutt for?

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Yeah, 100%.
Can we go back to orgasms for aminute?

Speaker 6 (01:15:34):
Great, good segue.
I have many different kinds ofthem and I'm not going to tell
you about any of them becauseit's pilot.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
Okay, great.
So when you were friendly, ableto have orgasms, can you have
internal orgasms?

Speaker 4 (01:15:47):
Can you clarify?

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
that question From penetration.

Speaker 4 (01:15:51):
No, I have never just had a penis in vagina.
No clitoral thing happening fororgasm.

Speaker 6 (01:15:59):
On the movies I've watched.
When the man inserts his penisinto your vagina, you're
supposed to have an exorcism.

Speaker 4 (01:16:04):
You immediately have.

Speaker 6 (01:16:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:16:07):
Can I just also say, like when the movies show
childbirth, it's nothing likechildbirth.

Speaker 5 (01:16:13):
From someone who has two children three, four, five
children.

Speaker 4 (01:16:16):
I don't know.
We'll just find out how manychildren I have at the end of
this.
No, it's not a thing, it's notreal life, and after having kids
, I kind of equate it to that.
Oh well, of course they'reimplementing fast tracking this
process because we don't haveenough time to show you the

(01:16:37):
reality of it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
This night in this 90 minute film, yeah, Also, people
would stop having babies A lotof people.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
True fact.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:16:47):
All of it, all of it, all of it.
But yeah, no, that sounds greatyeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
I agree, you know, I spent a long time thinking that
I don't know, I spent a longtime thinking that I was broken
because I can't do that, and Iwas.
You know, society shows youthat that's exactly all that sex
is, because it's all like inmovies all you see is a man
going into a woman and herwrithing in pleasure and then
everybody orgasming at the sametime.
So I, you know, even though Ithink I hadn't been affected by

(01:17:16):
porn and sex and films and stuff, it took me till now 39 to be
like oh, I totally was.
I spent a long time thinkingthat I was broken and I had a
problem and only recently waslike oh, no, no, what's going on
is, by and large, men are verybad at sex and foreplay and have
no idea how women's bodies workand my body is totally normal

(01:17:38):
and this is normal, and men arebad at sex and don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
You were saying that you're at the beginning of
exploring the journey of yoursex.
How can fantasies and thingsthat you want, anything looking
sparkly to you, phoenix, thatyou want to try out, or thought
about trying out?
Because I also consider myselflike a pink whisperer.
I feel pretty good about likeguessing what people would be
into, so I would like to see ifmy inside thoughts were right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:04):
Tell me any insight thoughts you have.
I mean me and a therapist havetalked multiple times.
It's like, even like I've beenopen to my husband like oh, the
first time I experienced gettingwet or the first time like you
know, like the first couple ofstories I read that like are
still in my brain because it wasthat like first sexual like
manifestation that happened inmy life when I've tried to like

(01:18:25):
implement that into the bedroom.
I do still feel so broken up,like not being able to do that
and he's tried so hard to likebe so sweet of like I mean he
even jokes at some point.
He's like I'm sorry, but likehow?
Like I almost feel like it'snot okay that you don't think
about anything, that you have tojust go inside, and I totally

(01:18:49):
feel that and I am strugglingwith trying to break outside of
that and even like again talk totherapists about it.
But like he's like I mean likeyou don't think about anything.
I'm like no, because that wasthe only way I told was okay to
have a sexual feeling and Imight be.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
This might be 100% wrong, so you can tell me if I'm
wrong, but I took a Tantracourse at one point with this
lovely woman who was very goodat Tantra and sex and things and
being open and beingcomfortable, and I took this
course by myself and one of thethings I remember from her
course was her work with peopleto get to a place of to being

(01:19:27):
able to have sexual pleasure andorgasms without fantasizing
about something else outside ofbeing with yourself and going
inside and being and justallowing the feelings to happen,
to be.
Well, I'm there.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying,like you might have like skipped
five steps and like the factthat you don't have to think

(01:19:49):
about like to this kissing ortwo girls kissing or like
whatever it is that peoplefantasize about.
You don't have to have that toto help you climax, or whatever
you are, you just in the moment.
I wouldn't call you, I wouldn'tby any means say that you're
going inside in like an emptyfashion, like think of your cup

(01:20:10):
as already overflowing, becausethat's magical and there's a lot
of people that can't do that.
And I remember one of thethings she said that I, to this
day, still try to do.
She's like, instead of you knowgoing to that place and you
always go in order to get off,start imagining like you're
being fucked by a star orwhatever.
Like just like a star in the sky, the cosmic, like cosmic leg of

(01:20:31):
a star is coming down andentering you and filling you
with like erotic energy and it'samazing and I would love to be
able to do that.
I think that sounds magical.
So you're thinking just likeway closer to being able to be
fucked by a star than most otherpeople.

Speaker 4 (01:20:52):
I've never heard that perspective at all and I'm like
holding back tears and thankyou so much from someone who
thinks she's broken.
That's such a different,beautiful, and that's why I've
just been like so as a friend ofof.
Stephanie is just so like.

Speaker 5 (01:21:09):
Alex is actually the first person I told about my
kink and as someone who lookedup to her in the evangelical
world and and I was nervous andtalk about true Christian style,
like just the true embodimentof loving and accepting and like

(01:21:31):
on board to like help me,research and like so kind and I
didn't feel alone in that momentand it was so loving.
So that's why I can't crossChristians out, because, at the
end of the day, what we aretaught if if you do take
anything away from the teachingsof Jesus or whatever is that

(01:21:51):
you aren't supposed to judgeanybody and you're supposed to
judge everybody for who they are.
And that's something she doesHoly inside and out.

Speaker 6 (01:21:59):
I.
I have met many wonderfulfollowers of Christ who have
been such a wonderful exampleabout that exact thing, like the
people that get it on thatlevel, get it on that level and
are the most inspiring peopleLike, like anyone in any
spiritual practice that getsthere.

(01:22:20):
You know, even in any differentflavor of religion or spiritual
practice, there's always peoplethat are like, and then there's
people that are quietly beingbadass.
But I will say Phoenix, thereason that I mentioned books is
because, in not to go into toomuch detail because it is
private, but in a lot of myrecovery as a human being and as

(01:22:42):
a sexual being, reading booksand reading other people's
stories it's not necessarily toget turned on, just to
experience other human beingsbeing sexual and it not being a
traumatic experience wasincredibly healing to me.
To just be like oh, I'm notexactly what you are
articulating, I'm not alone,it's safe and okay to be a

(01:23:05):
sexual creature, it's notthreatening, and so I'm going to
send you a book recommendationand it's just like a lovely YA
book.
But I was thinking about itwhile you were talking and I'm a
book whisperer I don't reallythink I am, but I wanted to say
that I was a whisperer, so Tosen, what was your kink whispering?

Speaker 4 (01:23:25):
Yeah, tell me.
Tell me anything.
I want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
I have a clarification question that I
need.
You mentioned that when youhave an idea or a fantasy that
you want to take into thebedroom and then you go to try
to take it in the bedroom andthen you said you can't
implement it or what ishappening in the can't implement
.

Speaker 4 (01:23:48):
I guess if you were to just make it as simple as
possible, like in reading it Iget turned on, and implementing
it in the bedroom, I'm notturned on.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Got it, that's normal and reasonable.
Is the thing that you weretrying to implement a scenario
or a sex act.

Speaker 4 (01:24:02):
Scenario.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Okay, if you don't mind, can you tell me what the
scenario was?

Speaker 4 (01:24:07):
I was like in a dressing room, about to go on
stage, a guy comes in and I'mabout to be like believing
something, like I'm about to bein charge, and then he comes in
and is in charge, but not inlike any kind of like in a
dominant.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
We're going to do this and we both like it way.
He takes charge and leads theway.

Speaker 4 (01:24:23):
Yes, and I have an amazing partner who is so
gracefully tried to do thosethings and in the moment it just
doesn't translate to thephysical things that reading
does.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Got it so that the umbrella that is called is a
power exchange thing.
Right, if you're reading it andenjoying it, you're viewing
that the person who's the top ofthe dominant there as someone
who has enough control of thesituation that you're going to
be safe.
Fine, and they know pleasureyou wise.
And it sounds like you'reslightly into dubious and

(01:24:56):
reluctant consent, right, so thesituation does not lead lend
itself for, like, this is a sexytime thing.
You're about to go on stage.
This is not normally somethinglike cars broken down.
Yeah, this is not.
This is not a situation that issexy, but someone has come
along that is, you know, incharge and you can feel that
they desire you at the time andare correctly leading you to the

(01:25:18):
point of where you do feel likehaving sex.
Probably what is happening inthe bedroom thing is that is a
lot of responsibility andpractice on the person who is
the Dom at the time.
So I am don't know yourhusband's kink history, but that
might hear my two suggestions.
Okay, you should literallywrite out like, make a script

(01:25:40):
the whole nine yards of likewhat would be sexy One.
The act of doing this is hot.
So, like you know, it would belike, let's try this out.
And, for example, one of the oneof my partners that I have now
that have been with for a while.
We both come from religioustrauma.
We are turned on by religiouskinks and I do broke bondage and
so we spent a lot of timeplanning the scene to do this,

(01:26:01):
where they're a nun and they'regoing to be sent to like a place
to do a missionary place.
That is very like all of thiswe wrote up together.
It was like they're going to besent to a place.
That's like really hard anddifficult.
Hold on one second Before Icontinue.
There are a couple of peoplehere with religious trauma.
Should I not tell this story?

Speaker 4 (01:26:20):
You can do.
I'm fine, I'm good, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
Definitely you good.

Speaker 5 (01:26:25):
I'm so good I'm listening.
I'm just bringing my phone withme.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
So there are none.
They're about to go into like athird world country where it's
very dangerous to do that andthey could be put in that
situation.
So they send me someone thatdoesn't qualify to be a pastor
because of my history andsometimes I my urges are get the
best of me and I go too far andbut I'm sent to train these

(01:26:49):
nuns because they're going to beput in situations that are like
dangerous and difficult andthey need to be to have the
resolve to continue to serve God.
We talked about this wholething and the writing of it was
like really good.
And then, because we spent somuch time talking about it and
understanding the world we'regoing to be in and we're both
performers and you're good withimprovising and coming up with
things in the scene and we knewthe bounds so well, it was a lot

(01:27:09):
easier to be like get to thefeeling that we want.
Because I think a lot of thingsthat happen when you're trying
to do role play stuff is,especially if you have a
performance background, whereit's like am I doing the
performing well, which turns off?
The sex brain is like as aworship leader, if I'm supposed
to be doing something correctly.
Performance wise.
That's a whole different brainthan the in the zone brain that

(01:27:33):
comes from ultra calling andworshiping.
So I have to pick the two.
I'm either rehearsing thereally hard number that this
person is going to sing with the35 chords that I don't know, or
I am lost in the spirit.
Right and role play sex is thesame Right.
If you go in a role playsituation and you haven't
practiced it and know it, yourbrain's doing chord math instead
of being lost in it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:53):
I've never heard it spoken that way and that hits me
in a way.
I've never heard.
Thank you, keep going.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
That's my suggestion, for the transfer is rehearse,
and then you can play and havefun.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
But you rehearse enough to be able to yeah, like
if it's like, if you write itlike in duty says and it doesn't
work the first time, don't giveup and be like well, that
didn't work, Like do it again ina week, do it again in a week
until you're like comfortablewith it, and it's not a thing
that like makes youuncomfortable or feels weird,
just like acting.

Speaker 6 (01:28:22):
Yes, Phoenix, that's exactly correct.
The first time you tried toplay a song, you did not play it
well, right you.
But you made it through and youlearned something you have to
keep practicing until yourfingers get calluses on them.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
This is going to give me great joy to do, because I'm
going to use a gospel song todescribe you better play One of
my favorite, one of the biggestlessons I had to learn about.
So really enjoying your kinksis about the details.
The same way, of differencebetween white Christian music
and Pentecostal and Kojic musicis right.

(01:28:57):
So here's how great is our Godin its most basic version.
Is our God.

Speaker 4 (01:29:07):
Stephanie, this is what you know Is our God.
Oh see how great, how great isour God, right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
So in the kink relations that is saying, you
know, I'm into the guy thatknows what he wants, and he
comes in and like it's dubious,and and then it's like a control
that he's taken over, right,that's, it's big, it has the
framework, it's the four chords,it's the right lyrics.
But the difference between thatand don't fight me, pedal,

(01:29:43):
we're doing cool things rightnow the difference between how
great is our God.
How great is our God.
Is all the same.
Steps right and there'sdifferent.

(01:30:03):
There's all types of things youcan do for reharmonizing all
that right Great.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
Is our God.
Stay with me.
We're going to stay right hereExactly.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
So all of those details that you've worked on in
practice, like your whole zonesystem knows how to get to right
.
That's like, oh, you know, Iknow this turn, I know this,
this feeling to get there.
If you're not specific andyou're trying to explain to a
new musician all of that, right,if you tell them you know it's
a one, six, four, five in D flat, that is not the same as like
well, we actually do thisbreakdown, it's two, three, four

(01:30:42):
into this fifth thing, and thenwe kind of vamp on this B flat
thing.

Speaker 4 (01:30:46):
You need all of those Just like watch them and you're
going to sit there and make itcut the drums.

Speaker 1 (01:30:49):
Or like watch this person, but like all of those
details that you get forbuilding, ultra calls for
building, first services, thingsyou have to do for role play
things.
You can't walk into a role playKing situation and be like it's
a one, four, six, one, six,four, five in D flat, not going
to feel good.
You got to be like we're goingto do this breakdown here.
The drums are going to stop inthis corner over here and we're
going to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:08):
That level of detail is required for y'all who don't
know, it's okay, but foreveryone who does, they're just
crying right now and it's good,it's fine, it's good.
Just this makes so much sense,if you know, if you know, you,
know you know, mind blowing andamazing and I want to pay all of
you like what I pay mytherapist, because I've gotten

(01:31:30):
more out of this hour than whichreminds me, those of you that
are enjoying this podcastoffering, we do have a Patreon,
a Patreon where you canpatronize us for, for
patronizing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
That was the sexiest Patreon I'm like we have ever
heard.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:47):
It's a little renegade films on Patreon.
You can also make a one timedonation through the website at
little renegadefilmscom, andyour donation or patronage will
go to producing more greatpodcasts and film art that you,
such as talk dirty to me.

Speaker 6 (01:32:03):
Talk dirty to me which we're listening to right
now, the movie worthy woman,which is about badass women in
history being badass.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
Blood suckers, which is about vampires and Samurai
and I breaking down vampirefilms, reviewing them and just
being funny leads together.
Also, we just got 2000downloads on that this week and
we are very happy about thatYou're celebrating.
And such as blood sisters,which is a web series also about
vampires.
It will be released soon.

(01:32:32):
Now back to your your regularlyscheduled sex talk.

Speaker 5 (01:32:38):
And if any churches want us to come, we'll happily
come and lead worship and talkto you about sex.

Speaker 4 (01:32:46):
Sozen, thank you.
You have spoken in such a waythat is so beautiful from
someone from that world, of likenon-threatening, non-pushing,
like really just trying to makethese connections in someone's
brain, of like beautiful waysthat they would understand from
someone and I love Casey and Ilove ceremony.

(01:33:08):
But I could see in their faceslike y'all just don't.
Y'all were like no.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
I was enjoying it, but it's okay that I wasn't on
the same page.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
From someone from our world.
What just happened is more thanyou know and is something that
it's never spoken about and issomething that is so perfect.
That was dance in my underpantsnight, you know what I mean.
Like experiencing a spiritualencounter, not in the church,
and going holy, fuck this.
I don't have to go to the altarto feel this feeling, and then

(01:33:43):
that just starts the journey ofimplementing that into your life
.
And the way Tozen just saidthat is just so beautiful.
Like expanding on that in otherways and just like using that
feeling and not being afraid ofthat feeling because I think
that's what a lot of people dois like, oh, if I think this is
something that I feel in thechurch, I just have to shut it
down.
And then it shuts down theirsexuality to shut down their
brain and shuts down theirspirit, their soul, and what

(01:34:06):
he's saying is these are thesame things.
Guys, be okay with it, love it,push it, lean into that and
know it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Amen, amen.
For everybody listening,phoenix Rhodes is a pseudonym.
Her identity is concealedbecause of the experience she
had with one of her siblings andher parents and I.
I think that's an importantstory too.
Would you, would it be okay totalk about that a little bit?

Speaker 4 (01:34:30):
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Um, my parents were inleadership at a church and I had
a sibling make some decisionsto be as vague as possible and
and my parents were okay withthose decisions and the church
was not.
It led to my parents beingfired from their position at the
church and and I think thatalso led to because it wasn't

(01:34:53):
necessarily something completelysexual, but it was.
That was kind of in there, butI think that also had a lot to
do with my bringing up of likeyour actions not only affect
yourself, but your actions couldalso impact the people who you
count on to bring food to thehouse.
What you do if, if they getfired Directly impacts your

(01:35:16):
livelihood in a way that I don'tthink a lot of People in their
teenage years exploring theirsexuality necessarily has that
kind of weight on them.
But if something came out, myparents could potentially have
gotten fired because of mysexual misconduct or my
misconduct in general and, um,that was just like a whole
nother level of yeah, that'slike doubling down on like fear

(01:35:39):
and like, oh, I can't yeahimagine both you and Stephanie
have been it's.

Speaker 6 (01:35:45):
I don't know if Casey feels this way, but as someone
who wasn't brought up in the,the church or in fundamentalism
or in that level of oppressionTo me, when I hear you say
something like I, I am scared ofthis Getting out.
I'm like, oh, that's kind ofthat's weird.
I respect Absolutely whereyou're coming from, but I can't
sympathize with it at all.

(01:36:06):
But when you illustrate it inthat way, it's like the deep
levels of Behavioral misconductthat has like real life,
non-monitare, like not beingable to bring like we couldn't
buy groceries For a couplemonths, kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:36:20):
Like I needed new shoes and I couldn't.
I didn't get a year Book whenyou're in high school because we
didn't have the money.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
Like you sort of put like in perspective how
ridiculous this is.
If we can like remove this fromthe church permanent and be
like it is no different than ifI, as a young teenager, went out
and had sex with somebody andthe word got out and my dad that
works at a technology companythey found out in his.
His boss at a technologycompany was like we don't like
your daughter's behavior, you'refired.

(01:36:46):
It's insane.
That's basically what happened.
It's unacceptable.

Speaker 4 (01:36:52):
Exactly what happened , and so I think, on top of all
of the religious trauma, it alsoput this like incredibly more
like Even if you do try toexplore, you do things, you have
to hide it, and I was alwaysliving a double life and I was
always like compartmentalizingDifferent aspects of my life.
And and to this point, thereason why I am still going

(01:37:14):
under a pseudonym is I stillrespect people enough in my life
, even though I've made choicesto live a different way.
I know the implications thatwords and actions have in that
world, and I I do still respectthem enough that I don't want to
to infringe on their livelihoodand potentially make them lose
their job because of things thatI have said, and so that's why

(01:37:37):
I've chosen to Under under apseudonym.
The people in my life that areclose to me know that I live my
truth and I live my life and I'mopen about it and I don't hide
it.
But it's just.
I don't want um, it's not fairfor the people that haven't
chose that my walk To beimpacted in a way so negatively.

Speaker 5 (01:37:53):
I think I think that's really beautiful and even
though I I wasn't raisedpenicostal, I remember our
baptist church.
We had an interim preacher,which is when they removed the
preacher they put a temporaryFor those who don't know
Preacher in and we were.
It was really vague, just kindof happened one Sunday and then

(01:38:13):
it got out that the reason ourpreacher left, or was forced to
leave, was because of somethinghis child did.
It had nothing to do with the.
I mean, I guess you can't sayit had nothing to do with the
pastor, obviously.

Speaker 4 (01:38:28):
Your ability to pastor as if you can't even keep
if you can't keep yourhousehold following these roles,
then how are you going to teachother people and expect other
people to follow those roles?
So we just have to get rid ofyou.

Speaker 5 (01:38:40):
Don't cover your face .
Phoenix rose.
That was like I was such a joyit went by so quickly because it
was you were.

Speaker 2 (01:38:49):
Thank you so much for coming on and telling your
story our goal on this podcastis to hopefully affect other
people and to let them know thatthey're all alone and they're
Experiencing the same thing aseveryone else and that they're
not broken and they're doingeverything right.
And your, your vagina and yourdick it's functioning 100
perfectly.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
They both are, thank you and before you go, I also
want to say thank you to you,phoenix, don't get, don't you
cry tole Soon having that momentwith you.
I didn't, I had no idea who'seven coming tonight.
And that moment with you, likethat worship leader connection
and getting to talk about thisspecific thing, yield, 11 year
old toasting, the 15 year oldtoast in a 20 year old toast, in

(01:39:32):
that 26 year old toast in allat the same time, because it was
like All, all of that, so thatI could that very specifically
get to that point with somebodyelse.
It's truly worth it.
So thank you for that moment inmy life.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:49):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 4 (01:39:50):
Thank you, but to people who grew up the way we
did, that specific thing is likesuch a big thing and such
something that we were taught weshould strive for and build our
lives to do and be in theepitome of like life's goals and
um.

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
to move past that is um Hard yeah, oh my god, this is
amazing and I'm I'm gonna goahead and messy mouth myself
really quick, because it's beenon my mind since I said it and
if I offended anybody by sayingthat God is a reflection of who
you are, I didn't mean that in anegative way at all, hopefully

(01:40:23):
in just a way that allows you,like your idea of God, to change
as you grow and change, andthat it allows you to feel free
and beautiful and at peace andempowered, like I hope.
That's a god that everybodyloves and has in their life.
I it's so beautiful and the end.

Speaker 5 (01:40:42):
I, I, I love how that's what you took back, but
not driving to every preacher'shouse and no, I'm gonna spank
the fuck out of them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
They're doing it anyway.
In the horny part in the hornypart of my life Been with a lot
of church elders.

Speaker 6 (01:40:59):
I'd like to point out that I watched.
I watched Stephanie play withher adorable kitty for, like I,
I don't know how many minutes,but I didn't say a thing about
it, and it was amazing.
You did so good as MC.

Speaker 5 (01:41:14):
Keep him hidden.
He was like meowing outside mydoor.
Nope, I watched it.

Speaker 6 (01:41:18):
I watched the whole time, I was listening and I was,
but I was also like Puring soloud I was like Look at look at
Stephanie putting that pussyRight on camera.

Speaker 2 (01:41:32):
Camera.
All right, beautiful people.
Thank you so much for listening.
Uh, we are little renegadefilms.
This is talk turdy.
To me this has been toast andawoo fesso.
Sarah Marie Currie, stephanie'sPhoenix Rhodes and Casey Sammy
II tune in.
Next time.
Go and and I guess until nexttime be real sexy and love god.

Speaker 1 (01:41:56):
And the whole church there.
I just want to make sureeverybody goes home tonight.
I'm feeling full and completewith everything that this
podcast has given you.
Make that the spirit guide youand leads you into the future
and know that you are loved,wanted, needed and a dirty,

(01:42:16):
dirty, dirty person.
Bye.

Speaker 7 (01:42:21):
Talk dirty to me is a podcast by little renegade
films.
It stars Sarah Marie Currie,casey, sammy II Casey.

Speaker 6 (01:42:28):
No, why don't you?
Oh, why don't I?
Yeah, like you, remember howyou read your synopsis.
Yeah, oh, you want me to dolike that.

Speaker 7 (01:42:34):
Yes, Okay, genius.
Okay, talk dirty to me is apodcast by little renegade films
.
It stars Sarah, marie, currie,casey, sammy II, toast, alifaso
and Stephanie's, with silentcontributions by Taylor Novak.
Title and closing themes bytoast and Alifaso.

(01:42:54):
Follow us on the social mediasat talk dirty to me pod and for
more of our offerings, go tolittle renegade filmscom.
You.

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(RERUN) Sex, Music, and Religion - The Phoenix Rhodes Episode

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}(RERUN) Sex, Music, and Religion - The Phoenix Rhodes Episode