November 24, 2025 • 35 mins
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Major Dick Winters was a true hero and a symbol of the courage and integrity of the Greatest Generation. In this episode, Jenn and Scott dive into his remarkable life and legacy, reflecting on his leadership during World War II and how he personified the spirit of his time. We chat about how he led his men with honor during D-Day and the battles that followed, all while staying humble and focused on his team. It’s a serious discussion, but we also sprinkle in some light-hearted banter about our own military experiences and how they relate to Winters' story. So grab your headphones and get ready to walk through history with us as we celebrate a man who really was a "company of heroes."
📍 Google Maps to Dick Winters gravesite
🎙️ Podcast about Band of Brothers training in England
🎙️ National D-Day Memorial and the Bedford Boys
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Can't miss this guy. Like,he's, he's the man.
I mean, he, He. He really is.And, And I always kind of wonder
about Dick Winters. Like, Imean, I know he had kind of his own
stuff to say during theminiseries, but I always wonder about
Dick Winters is like, how manyother officers were out there doing
(00:23):
what he was doing. And I thinkthat's, you know, we, we put him
on the pedestal, but reallyhe's the. He. He kind of represents,
in my opinion, you know, thebest. The best of us at that time.
And I, like, I think he. I. Idid. I never knew him personally,
but I think from what Igather, when he speaks, he feels
(00:46):
that way, too.
Yeah.
Because I think you and I bothfeel that way, too. Like officers
in the military, we know thereare many people with integrity like
us, as many people who arehonorable like us. There's many people
who are brave. Just certainpeople get that opportunity to really
shine in that. And I don't. Idon't want to say shine because you
(01:08):
have to do what you have to dowhen it's done. And that. That's
really what Dick Winters does.That night of, Of Normandy.
Yeah. And it's one of thosethings, too. I mean, even now, you
know, I'll talk to officersthat work for me or enlisted or whatever
like that, and you have thetypical miscommunication, or people
get frustrated because theythink someone else is trying to pull
(01:32):
one over on them or somethinglike that. Right. Even. Even in the
military, people are people.But I always tell them, like, 99.8%
of the time, that person onthe other end of the phone and other
end of an email or the otherend of the table during a conversation
is they're, especially in themilitary, I think they're coming
(01:52):
from the right place. They'retrying to do the right thing. They're
just doing it through theirlens. And that's why part of me,
and I know this is kind oflike not a popular opinion, but sometimes
I feel a little bit for Sobel.
Yeah.
Because he was trying to dowhat he thought was right in his
own way. Now, the way it wasportrayed in the book and the movie.
(02:13):
And I don't know if it was.
I don't think it was 100%accurate, because you're looking
for that conflict.
Yeah, you're looking for thatconflict. But I kind of. I feel for
him a little bit because he'skind of the. Painted to be the bad
guy. But the reality of it is,and you saw it A couple times through
the miniseries was hisleadership. What's his name, the
(02:36):
colonel? Sink.
Sink.
He told him, you've trainedthe best men out of. Out of everybody.
I don't know if the endsjustify the means. Again, displayed
for the miniseries, he waskind of painted as the antagonist,
but sometimes I feel a littlebit for him. But back to Dick Winters,
(02:57):
he's just. His leadershiplessons and the examples that they
brought out that StephenAmbrose wrote about in the book and
that they kind of highlightedin the miniseries and stuff like
that. I mean, those are. Imean, they're studied now.
Yeah. So I think of it as.When we talk about the Greatest Generation,
(03:19):
we talk about World War II,and really when we talk about Dick
Winters, I think of DickWinters more as the symbol of those
men. Because it's a lot I wantto express to people that even the
military was a lot differentwhen we served. People did not push
themselves forward. People didnot push their merits forward. People
did not talk about what theydid. It's become so popular now for
(03:42):
people to be like, I was theone who did it. Nobody did that.
Even when I was going through,we kept quiet, we put our heads down.
We didn't take pictures, wedidn't take videos of ourselves.
We did the job. Dick Wintersis that guy. And there were many
guys like Dick Winters. And Ithink that that's what I try to stress
(04:03):
is, yes, is he a great exampleof somebody who served their country
honorably? A small town boywho went and helped save America.
But there were many small townboys who went and helped save America.
Yeah. And I think you do agood job of talking about that in
a video. I think he even saidkind of, you know, he reminds you
(04:24):
a little bit above of the,like, the Bedford boys. Right. And
we have separate videos onthat. And for folks listening to
the podcast, I'll link thoseold episodes, podcast episodes and
video episodes in the shownotes. But yeah, he was quite an
amazing person and pretty coolthat he was from Pennsylvania, so
you got to visit his grave.
Yeah. And I think, too, it'sbecause of Ambrose, because of the
(04:46):
miniseries, his story comesout. Yeah, he was never that guy
who was pushing out his storyeither. So you think about how many
stories Dink had pushed out.Now we celebrate Dick Winters. I
think to celebrate him is alsoto celebrate these other men. But.
But he's from Pennsylvania.He's from a small rural area outside
of Penn State, outside ofGettysburg, that I seem to mispronounce,
(05:08):
even though I went to PennState and I'M from the P, Pennsylvania
area.
Yeah, so. So. So for those whohaven't seen the episode or looked
at the comments, you know, sowe pronounce it. He's his. The grave
site is outside of Lancaster,Pennsylvania. And that's how you
spell it. L, A, N, C, A, S, T,E, R. Yeah. Lancaster, Lancaster.
We have plenty of folks fromthe area who say it's pronounced
(05:30):
Lancaster. And I'm like, Jenand I were talking earlier, and please
feel free to shoot us an emailor drop us a comment if you have
a thought on this, but justbecause someone's from an area and
they have an accent does notmean that accent is the correct pronunciation
of a word. So just because yousay Lancaster does not mean that
(05:52):
that's how the word istechnically pronounced. But we just.
We find those kinds of thingsentertaining. JD Deals with that
all the time, especially whenhe's traveling overseas from history
underground. So. But yeah,just a funny aside.
And if you know me, I have areal hard time with pronunciation
anyway.
Yes, my. My wickedly smartwife cannot pronounce words that
(06:15):
are ever so slightly difficultor if the word is sheriff.
So I. I want understood,though. I don't want anyone to get
upset. Like, when I talk aboutheroes, and I do this really, when
I talk about Little Round Topand Strong Vincent and Chamberlain,
and when we talk about Wintersand his heroism and other people's
(06:35):
heroism, I'm not taking awayfrom Winter's heroism. When I say
there were other men likeWinters. It's not like pie. I said
that on the DressingGettysburg podcast. It's not like
everyone gets a limited amountof slices of heroism. It's me saying
that we. Winters portraysthese. This heroism. But remember
all the men that went over andfought during World War II, and they
(06:57):
don't tell their storiesbecause they were. They did it. They
were done. They saw so much.Winter saw so much. Even he says
he didn't have PTSD until theywere filming Band of Brothers, and
he went to a location and sawpeople in. In reenacting, and he
(07:18):
couldn't. He couldn't walk on set.
Yeah.
So they. They dropped. Theyleft it behind. Right? They fought
this war. They were drafted todo it. They were heroes. They saved
the world. And then they wentback to their lives. And Dick Winter's
story just got told becauseStephen Ambrose picked it up and
told the story. The miniserieswas a huge success. But just know
(07:41):
that men came home and livetheir lives. They baby boomed. Right?
They. He went back to work inPennsylvania, had a farm Outside
of Hershey. And I. I heardfrom people who'd, like, he would.
He would be involved in thecommunity and stuff.
But, yeah, he was just aregular guy.
A regular guy. And so I wantit to be understood that Winters,
(08:03):
to me, represents those heroesof America, just like the Bedford
boys represent those heroes ofD Day. And it was an honor to go
there. We've talked aboutWinters before on this channel. I
made a specific point to go toAlderborn when I was in England.
And Alderborn was the areathat the 105th Parachute infantry
(08:27):
of the 101st Airborne, the 2ndBattalion, Easy Company, was based
at before they jumped on Normandy.
Yeah.
So.
So for our listeners, pictureEngland in your head. Right? Picture
the uk, Great Britain. Right.The little island up there, the kind
of southern part of it. Thenthere's the English Channel. Then
on the other side of theEnglish channels, you know, the northern
(08:49):
part of France. So the Americashipped all its, you know, its folks
out to that southern part ofEngland so they could sit there,
train, prep for D Day for theinvasion of France so they could
come drive the Germans out. Sothat's where Dick Winters was. That's
where Easy Company was. Sopicture England, that southern, southern
(09:10):
part of it. Right. Right downthere. And they were there for what,
like, nine months?
They were there for about ninemonths in November 1943, all the
way into June of 44. That'sthat countryside they said best represented
France.
Yeah.
And so they practiced jumping there.
Yeah.
(09:31):
So they could get an idea ofwhat that looked like and felt like.
And they stayed in these huts.And I take you to the location where
those huts were located, but Ireally took you to the church there
because that is where Wintersmeets the Barnes family. And the
Barnes family is who Wintersis quartered with during this time.
(09:54):
It's him and another officer.And he says being with that normal
family who just lost their sonin the Battle of Britain, reinforce
what he was fighting for. Thisnormalcy of life, this normalcy of.
Of living your life andwanting just your. Your basic hopes
and dreams of. Of a normallife. And so I take you to that location,
(10:18):
sit on that bench exactlywhere Winter sat, so you can kind
of get that same kind offeeling. Plus, I. It means a lot
for me and you because asofficers, we lead people. Yeah, Right.
We.
We have to instill thatmotivation. We have to instill that
leadership and think Wintersis about to lead his men on D Day.
(10:41):
This is huge. And he's gonna.If you know anything about the. The
101st and the airborne, theygo behind the enemy line. So he's
going to be jumping behindthat front beach of Normandy. They
go behind Utah beach and MayorSaint Igles in that area there, and
they're kind of taking theenemy from the back side. And so
(11:03):
you have to jump with all yourgear. You have to jump with your
weapon. Like, it's just a lot to.
Well, well. And that's one ofthe things that I appreciated about
the other miniseries that wasput out a couple years ago was Masters
of the Air is it shows howdangerous just flying in there was.
Right. There was no guaranteethey would even be able to jump.
(11:23):
Right. If you watch theMasters of the Air miniseries that
they put, that StevenSpielberg put out on Apple tv. Plus,
you know, it does a phenomenaljob of kind of. This is more B17
centric. Right. So it's notone massive, you know, thing, but
it does a good job of kind ofshowing how dangerous just those
flight missions were. And soeven on D Day, there was no guarantee
(11:45):
that they were even going tomake it past the coastline because
they had those coastal,coastal defenses there shooting down
airplanes all the time. And sothat's, that's. They could do all
this, all this training andall this stuff and everything, and
they would still be at risk ofgetting shot down out of the sky.
Yeah. And so it's just these,these men just, it's just I want
(12:08):
to honor that heroism becausethese men, if you look at Dick Winters
training, I mean, he comesfrom this small town in Pennsylvania.
He's born in New Holland,Pennsylvania. They moved to nearby.
When was he born?
He was born in 1918. January 21st.
Okay, so just after World War I.
Just after World War I. Andthey moved to. How do you say that
(12:29):
again? E P H R A T era.
E P H R A T A.
Yes. Efrata. That's where he's buried.
Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania. And then theymoved to Lancaster when he was eight
years old. Lancaster,Lancaster. He graduates from Lancaster
boys High School 1937, andthen he attends Franklin Marshall
College. I also want to stressto people, most officers will have
(12:53):
gone to college, and that'swhy he's an officer. He graduates
in June 1941. So the perfecttime right before the bombing of
Pearl harbor.
And then he signs up himself.Right. He's not even drafted.
I think he, I think he, hechose to volunteer under the Selective
Service after graduating forcollege and complete. And complete
(13:14):
the required one year ofservice rather than waiting for a
conventional call up.
Yeah.
Because it might Interrupt hisbusiness career. So he was very kind
of aw. Of, of he didn't wantto be starting his career and then
having to go. So he's like, Iwant to go first. And he's deducted
into the Army. August 25,1941, near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
(13:36):
And then he goes to SouthCarolina for basic training and he
goes to office of candidateschool at Fort Benning. And that's
where he's commissioned asecond lieutenant out of OCS 7-2-1942.
Okay.
So you can think Pearl Harborshappen. 42. And then that's when
he decides to join theParachute Infantry. And that's when
(13:58):
he goes to Camp Tokka.
I think it's Toccoa.
Toccoa. Oh my gosh. People aregonna lose their mind when they hear
me say this wrong. EspeciallyBand of Brothers.
Maybe I'll, maybe I'll leaveit in. I won't edit it out.
I just know this is the joy ofbeing around me and pronouncing words.
I'll let our listenersappreciate how while I produce our
(14:19):
show.
And that's, that's the commandthat's commanded by Colonel Sink.
Yeah.
And we visit Sink's grave in Arlington.
Yeah. And, and it'sinteresting too that he said, okay,
I'm going to sign up, youknow, under my selective service
agreement. Just so I can onlyneed, initially need to do a year.
(14:40):
Right. So I can go run mybusiness afterwards. And that was
again, because pre, pre PearlHarbor, Pearl harbor probably happens.
And I imagine, right. If he'sin the middle of his training, he
hasn't even finished, youknow, some of his basic training
yet. Everybody like on thatday are like, okay, you guys are
going to stick around a littlebit longer. Because I imagine they,
they probably just said, hey,yeah, if you were, if you had a one
(15:01):
year contract, you now have afour year contract.
Yeah. And I think too, it wasprobably like us who were in the
military during 9 11.
Yeah.
We didn't care.
Yeah.
I bet. Because there was soPearl harbor motivated so much of
America to join the war. Whenyou think about us being attacked.
Same for 9 11. After 9 11,like recruiting couldn't, couldn't
(15:21):
keep up with the amount ofpeople that wanted to sign up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he probably felt, okay,yeah, whatever is needed, I'm going
to do. But that's when hejoins the Easy Company. It's Company
e of the 2nd Battalion, 506thParachute Infantry Regiment E Easy.
So that's where that EasyCompany comes from. And, and then
(15:41):
the Training at To Koa wasvery difficult. Of the 500 officers
who had volunteered, only 148completed the course. So it was very
difficult.
I didn't realize that.
Yeah. I. And just think aboutwhen they did kind of show on Band
of Brothers, them running.
Yeah. Kurt, Was it Curry Hill?
Yeah. Like, people yell it,but they're in full gear.
(16:02):
Yeah.
And I don't know if anyone'sever run in full gear. I mean, boots
alone, every. I think I have,like, two pounds per foot when you
have your boots on. Andthey're not very forgiving when your
feet. And then you're carryingyour rifle.
Yeah. And their pack and allthe stuff.
And they're packing your helmet.
Yeah.
That's a. That's a lot.
Yeah. I didn't realize it wasthat much of a attrition out of that
(16:24):
course. Out of that. That. Outof that training. That's cool.
Yeah, it's cool. But when youthink about it, too, like, what do
you think you're gonna havewhen you jump into theater?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Right. You're gonna be runningwith all of this gear. And I was
just watching something aboutthe American Revolution yesterday.
There was a group heard thefighting and ran four miles in full
gear in 40 minutes to meet theenemy. Patriots. Right.
(16:48):
This is American Revolution.
American Revolution. But thisis over terrain. Things that haven't
been cut. Right. And they'recarrying their rifles and they hear
the fight and they're runningto it. So that's the same kind of
mindset that you're gettinghere. Like, you have to be able to
do all of this in your fullgear because that's what you're going
to have with you.
Sure.
And so that all that trainingtakes place in. Is that in Georgia?
(17:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you cango today. I think JD Has a couple
videos from there. You can goup to the top of them.
He did, like, a cleanup effortor something like that.
Yeah. Because people werespray painting at the top of the
mountain. But you can gothere. You can see their barracks
and. Super cool. Then we'vegone to Alderborn and then Normandy,
so we have videos from thereas well. They're going to jump about
(17:35):
a little after midnight onJune 6, 1944. So when you think about
people hitting the beaches,they hit the. Hit the beaches very
early in the morning, butright at sunrise, Easy Company and
the Airborne are jumping atmidnight, close to midnight, very
dark. And if you go toNormandy, you can see what that felt
(17:57):
like. You can stand there inthe Dark jumping. And this is why
so many were scattered.
Yeah.
Because you're not seeinganything. You're jumping at night.
That's for protection forthem. Right. And so they're jumping
into St. Mary Glass. And he.Winters will jump definitely safely
near St. Mary Glass. Now, atthat time, he's not commander of
(18:19):
Easy Company. The commander ofEasy Company is killed that night.
Oh, really? His plane willcrash, and he's killed one of the
airborne inside that plane.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Winters doesn't quite knowthat. But he can't find him when
they land, and so he de factojust takes command.
Sure.
Right. And again, as officers,we understand how that works. It's
(18:40):
quick, it's fast. You just.You have to keep moving forward.
Yeah. You get you, you getthose around you organized, and you.
And you get them set up, setin the right direction until you
figure out. Can figure outwhat's going on and that.
And he kind of just maintainsthat command all through the Normandy
Campaign because again, theynever. He never knows what happens
to the. His fate is not knownuntil after the fact.
(19:01):
Yeah.
And that's when he's going tolead that big assault. Bright court
record. That is the one wherethey destroy the battery of the German
howitzers. And this is wherethose were firing on Utah Beach.
So this is where he gathershis men, he trains, he gives them
a real quick, you know, thisis what we're going to do, a plan.
(19:23):
And they go and take thatarea. Winters has 13 men, and they
defeat a platoon of 50 Germantroops. That attack is still studied
at West Point.
I think I remember you talkingabout that on. At the Normandy video.
Yeah, it's. It's a textbookexample of an assault on a fixed
position by a numerical. By.By an inferior force.
(19:46):
Yeah.
So how do you. And they usekind of what they call a kind of
wagon wheel approach becausethey kind of move around. But. Yeah.
So we go there in my Normandyvideo. We'll take you there to where
that was. That is the locationwhere Dick Winters probably should
have won the Medal of Honor.Probably should have received the
Medal of Honor. Now he didn't.He gets the. The second Silver Cross
(20:10):
for valor. And the reason whyhe doesn't. Because people ask, why
didn't he get it? It's becauseat the time, you only got one per
unit.
Oh, really?
It was very controlled.
Oh.
And someone had already gottenit for his.
I know.
For that particular unit. Somore than like before, for what Winters
(20:31):
did in that moment, taking 13men, taking command Giving them tactics,
taking this whole battery of.Of German guns that are firing on
Utah Beach. And again, you cango there today. They have monuments
right there. It's reallyawesome to see. For those actions,
more than likely, he shouldhave received the Medal of Honor.
(20:52):
Wow.
And actually, if somebodywanted to go on our campaign to get
him one, he probably stillcould get it.
He probably could now. I mean,they, they award that those.
You know, posthumously andhonestly, I think for his actions
that day. But we all know it.
Yeah.
And we all definitelycommemorate him for it. But he. And
so on July 1, he was promotedto captain, and that's when he was
(21:17):
also told that he was.
The commander.
Commander of Easy Company aswell. And Omar Bradley presents him
with the Distinguished ServiceCross. So Lieutenant General Omar
Bradley, he's the commander ofthe US first army, will give him
the Distinguished ServiceCross for his actions.
(21:39):
So for the miniseries. And Iimagine. Right. If you haven't seen
the miniseries. Absolutely. Gowatch it. It's a generational type
miniseries. It's phenomenal. Idon't know a single person that doesn't
like it. Is it prettyaccurate? Just in general, we're
(22:00):
not going to try to break downthe whole miniseries in this one
podcast episode, but ingeneral, is it relatively accurate
to. To life as far as, like,what they did and what he did and
stuff like that?
Yeah, I would say it's. Ihaven't heard much. The only thing
I've heard the criticism wasSobel, like you had said.
Yeah. Yeah.
So was family.
He was kind of like hisantagonism was blown out of proportion.
(22:22):
Yeah, it's a little bigger than.
Yeah.
But no, I think for the mostpart it was accurate. And. And if
you want to dive more into theaccuracy of Stephen Ambrose, we have
a whole other podcast.
Yeah, that's a great point.There was a couple things that, that
are relatively obvious thatweren't accurate in the miniseries.
A couple people who Ambrosewrote who died. That person totally
(22:46):
didn't die, went on to have asuccessful career and went on to
Korea. Right. So there's acouple characters in the miniseries
and in his book. So if you'reever reading the book or if you've
read the book, I'd encourageyou to kind of go watch our video
and I'll link that particularvideo where we talk about Ambrose
and some of thosecontroversies while we're at the
World War II Museum in NewOrleans. But he, he did take some
(23:09):
liberties to kind of tell thestory. So again, his books are always
a great place to Start.
Yes.
Not necessarily 100 factuallycorrect. So just something to. To
consider when you're doingthis. But yeah, that's one thing
that I was always curiousabout, because Hollywood will do
its thing and we'll make itappear very Hollywood. But it appears
(23:33):
to me that the majority of thestories we hear about the characters
and Dick Winters was actuallypretty true.
Pretty true. I mean, you seeat the end, the war weariness.
Yeah.
They. They give his men ordersto go capture some German prisoners
of war. And he's like, no, whywould I put my men in danger?
(23:54):
Well, after they had alreadydone it once. But the night before.
Yes.
And the. And the. I think thecolonel was like, that's great. Let's
go do it again. And so hegives. There's a classic scene, and
I put it in a recent video,the classic scene where he says,
okay, this is what we're goingto do. This is what we're going to
do. You know, we're going togo across the river and we're going
to try to capture someprisoners of war. Now, I expect you
all to get a good night'srest, because in the morning you're
(24:16):
going to tell me that youcrossed the river and you were unsuccessful
in capturing any prisoners ofwar. And they all just kind of look
at them. They don't send.Nobody says anything.
Yep.
And he's like, do you guysunderstand? You understand? And they
just say, yes, sir. Knowingthat. What that means to them is
he's saying, without saying,we're not going to carry out this
(24:36):
mission because we know it'sjust. It's going to get somebody
killed.
Yep.
You're going to get a goodnight's sleep. And we're going to
tell them we didn't catchanybody in the morning.
Yeah. I think again, goodleadership. He's showing good leadership.
He's showing his men areworld. He needs to really be thinking
about his men right now andhow just exhausted they are and.
And why would he unnecessarilyput their lives at risk for something
(25:00):
with little gain and all thatthey have done? Because he's going
to be in the Battle of theBulge. He's going to be in the Battle
of Baston. I mean, he's goingto be. They break into the Eagle's
Nest, they're going to getinto Hitler's headquarters. And really,
like, he has enough points tobe done with his time in the army
(25:21):
and he decides to stay. Heremains during the process of occupation
and demobilization, and he'soffered A regular commission, but
he declines it. And then heseparates from the army in November
of 1945.
Wow.
So he. When you think aboutit, he's there for the duration of
everything, basically.
(25:42):
The whole time America was inthe war, he was in it.
Yeah. And so. And again, likeI said, he's recommended for the
Medal of Honor, but he getsthe second highest award for combat
valor, the DistinguishedService Cross instead. And then he.
It says here, after therelease of Band of Brothers, representative.
Representative forPennsylvania introduced a bill asking
(26:03):
the President to grant themedal, but the bill died in the House
Armed Services Committee in2007. So maybe someone needs to pick
that back up. I don't know.After the discharge from the army,
he worked with a close friend,Captain Nixon, and at his family
business in New Jersey, now inEdison Township.
Okay.
(26:23):
And he became a generalmanager. And then he gets married
in 1948 to Ethel. Remember theE names?
Yeah. His mom had an E name.
Yeah. Edith.
Yeah.
And then he pursues hiseducation through the GI Bill. He
takes some courses at Rutgers,and then they buy a small farm in
1945 and they raise twochildren. He actually is recalled
(26:45):
to active duty during theKorean War. He was ordered to join
the 11th Airborne Division,and he's given six months to report.
He actually met with ageneral, explained that he had seen
enough of the war, explainedthat if he was needed, he would go.
He reports to Fort Dix, andthen he was assigned as a training
(27:06):
officer. And then hevolunteers to go to Ranger School,
where he passed and became aRanger. He received orders to deploy
to Korea, traveled to Seattle,and then he was offered the option
of resigning his commission,which he accepted. So.
So he basically kind of justwas recalled and ended up training
soldiers. Yeah. You know, forthe Korean War.
He was going to go intotheater and then was offered the
(27:29):
resign commission. He took it.And I think after you've seen so
much. Right. I always saythat, too. You'll know when you feel
like you've spent your ninelives and you'll know, like, I don't
want to push the envelope.
Well, and one of the thingsthat I kind of appreciate about the
whole. I'll call it, exampleof Dick winners is that at that time
(27:52):
in that era, it was rare, andyou kind of had to have the highest
level of attention to get tobe spotlighted in. I'll call it the
media at the time, because itwas just difficult to do in the 40s,
50s, 60s, you know, became alittle bit more prevalent in the
60s with 60s and 70s.
(28:13):
Yeah. You got the Black sheepwith Pepe Boyington and stuff. People
really wanted to push that Aviation.
Yeah.
For it. Because people.
And, and again, if you. We. Welook back on it, we're like, how
do people not know more abouthim? You know, back then? It's because
there was, you know, tons ofmen doing what he did. Right. And
he was recalled because that'swhat. The draft was still a thing.
And so rather than draft, theywould recall soldiers that were already
(28:36):
trained. And the draft didn'tgo away until the 70s. And so that's
kind of what I appreciateabout the whole example of him is
he wasn't really pushed to theforefront. Easy Company wasn't really
pushed to the forefront tillthe book in the miniseries. And then
he passed away not too longafter, I think the miniseries came
(28:57):
out.
So he. Well, I. He. He goesinto business for himself. He sells
animal feed in Pennsylvania.He moves his family to Hershey. He
retires in 1997 at 79. Now,Stephen Ambrose book comes out in
1992, but the miniseries comesout. Right. At 9 11.
Yeah, that's right.
Right. He's featured in anumber of books in 90s. And he's
(29:20):
also. When the miniseriescomes out, he goes to the Emmy PrimeTime
Awards in 2002. There's a lotmore written about him. People will
write about the. The BiggestBrother, the life of Major Dick Winters.
He writes his own memoir in2006, and then he gives a number
of lectures. He's given anhonorary doctorate at Franklin and
(29:40):
Marshall. So once his storycomes out, people do want to recognize
him.
Right. And that's what, again,that's kind of what I like about
him as the example is hewasn't pushed to the forefront. When
he was right after he finishedhis military service, it was like
(30:03):
he was 80. Right. Basically,he was basically 80 by the time,
you know, in his 80s, by thetime he was kind of recognizing and
had this spotlight. And atthat point in your life, you're kind
of like. I understood, like,his, his stance. Right. Like we talked
about in the beginning of thepodcast is he feels like he was just.
He wasn't the hero, but he.
Yeah.
Served with heroes.
(30:24):
So that was his. That. I lovethat quote, and I. I say that quote
at his grave. And despite themany accolades he received, he always
remained humble about hisservice. And then it was an interview
for Band of Brothers. And soin the miniseries final Scene, he's
quoted a passage from a letterhe received from a sergeant, and
(30:45):
it said, I cherish theMemories of a question my grandson
asked me the other day when hesaid, grandpa, were you a hero in
the war? And Grandpa said, no,but I served in a company of heroes.
Yeah. It's just. It's just sophenomenal. You know, I love in the
recognition he got is athousand percent deserved, but I
(31:06):
love that he is just kind ofthe. In my eyes, the example of men
who served at that time.
Yeah.
Who did their time, and thenthey came back and they went back
to their regular lives andthey ran a business in. Outside of
Hershey, Pennsylvania. Right.Or Lancaster. Lancaster. Or whatever
it was. Right. And that's whatI absolutely love about that. And.
(31:29):
And that's what I respect somuch about my fellow, you know, servicemen
and women today. I just raninto an old match chief that I used
to work with at Subway. Wewere both sitting there, and I didn't
recognize him because he hadlong hair and a beard. Classic Navy
move. And he put his order in.I didn't recognize him. I started
putting my order in. He turnsover and looks at me. He was like,
(31:50):
hey, Master Chief. Camera. Iwas like, oh, my gosh. And I actually
used more colorful language. Iwas like, how are you? Because he
and I worked together. It wasprobably seven or eight years ago.
And I just absolutely lovethat when people retire and they
go back to their regularlives. And we stood the watch. Right.
And Dick Winters, he stood thewatch, along with his band of brothers.
(32:11):
Yeah. Unfortunately, he willpass January 2, 2011. So right before
his birthday, he was in anassisted living in Campbell Belltown,
Pennsylvania. He dies at 92.He had suffered from Parkinson's,
the ends of his life. He'sburied in a private funeral service.
And we take you to thatlocation in Bergstrass, Bergstrous
(32:37):
Evangelical Lutheran ChurchCemetery and very old cemetery. When
I take you there, there weregravestones from the early 1700s.
Oh, wow.
Like it? This was one of theoriginal areas of Pennsylvania.
That's cool.
And if you know anything aboutLancaster, this is kind of the Amish
(32:57):
country. Like, this is oldschool. You will see people in horse
and buggies there. Like, thisis the old school area of Pennsylvania.
Ethel will die in April of2012 and join him. His gravestone
is very unassuming.
Yeah, we've had comments, youknow, comments on that. And it was
like, well, an unassuminggrave for an unassuming man.
(33:17):
It just says Richard D.Winters. His middle name was Davis,
World War 201st Airborne.That's all it says.
Yeah. And you'll recognize itbecause There's. I mean, even when
you went there, there wasflags already around it. And so people
are kind of visiting and kindof paying their own homage to him.
So I just think it was neatthat you got to go do that. You were
out visiting Gettysburg and onthe Addressing Gettysburg podcast,
(33:39):
and you took the time to kindof make the drive out there to kind
of visit that. And I think itwas just really neat.
It was important to me. And Ialso. I want to thank the History
Museum of Gettysburg becausethere's a photograph of Winters leaving
on the train station fromLancaster with his family. And I
was able to go to theLancaster train station. The building
(34:02):
looks exactly the same fromthe 1940s and stand in the same position.
This is when winters leaves in1943 to get. Pick up the ship to
go to England. But I was ableto recreate that photograph. So he's
buried about 15 minutes fromthat location.
Yeah. Yeah. No, it wasawesome. And again, for those listening
for our audience, I encourageyou guys to go check out our other
(34:24):
episodes. I will link ourother podcast episodes to From Alder
Barn and Normandy, as well asthe video episodes if you guys want
to watch those. So thank youso much for. For joining us and talking
about Dick Winters, and we'lltalk to you guys next time.
Yeah, thank you.
This has been Walk withHistory production. Talk with History
(34:44):
is created and hosted by me,Scott Benny. Episode researched by
Jennifer Benny. Check out theshow notes for links and references
mentioned in this episode.Talk with History is supported by
ourfans@thehistoryroadtrip.com our eternal
thanks go out to thoseproviding funding to help keep us
going. Thank you to DougMcLiberty, Larry Myers, Patrick Benny,
(35:05):
Gail Cooper, Christy Coates,and Calvin Gifford. Make sure you
hit that follow button in thatpodcast player and we'll talk to
you next time.
Can't miss this guy. Like,he's, he's the man.
I mean, he, He. He really is.And, And I always kind of wonder
about Dick Winters. Like, Imean, I know he had kind of his own
stuff to say during theminiseries, but I always wonder about
Dick Winters is like, how manyother officers were out there doing
(00:23):
what he was doing. And I thinkthat's, you know, we, we put him
on the pedestal, but reallyhe's the. He. He kind of represents,
in my opinion, you know, thebest. The best of us at that time.
And I, like, I think he. I. Idid. I never knew him personally,
but I think from what Igather, when he speaks, he feels
(00:46):
that way, too.
Yeah.
Because I think you and I bothfeel that way, too. Like officers
in the military, we know thereare many people with integrity like
us, as many people who arehonorable like us. There's many people
who are brave. Just certainpeople get that opportunity to really
shine in that. And I don't. Idon't want to say shine because you
(01:08):
have to do what you have to dowhen it's done. And that. That's
really what Dick Winters does.That night of, Of Normandy.
Yeah. And it's one of thosethings, too. I mean, even now, you
know, I'll talk to officersthat work for me or enlisted or whatever
like that, and you have thetypical miscommunication, or people
get frustrated because theythink someone else is trying to pull
(01:32):
one over on them or somethinglike that. Right. Even. Even in the
military, people are people.But I always tell them, like, 99.8%
of the time, that person onthe other end of the phone and other
end of an email or the otherend of the table during a conversation
is they're, especially in themilitary, I think they're coming
(01:52):
from the right place. They'retrying to do the right thing. They're
just doing it through theirlens. And that's why part of me,
and I know this is kind oflike not a popular opinion, but sometimes
I feel a little bit for Sobel.
Yeah.
Because he was trying to dowhat he thought was right in his
own way. Now, the way it wasportrayed in the book and the movie.
(02:13):
And I don't know if it was.
I don't think it was 100%accurate, because you're looking
for that conflict.
Yeah, you're looking for thatconflict. But I kind of. I feel for
him a little bit because he'skind of the. Painted to be the bad
guy. But the reality of it is,and you saw it A couple times through
the miniseries was hisleadership. What's his name, the
(02:36):
colonel? Sink.
Sink.
He told him, you've trainedthe best men out of. Out of everybody.
I don't know if the endsjustify the means. Again, displayed
for the miniseries, he waskind of painted as the antagonist,
but sometimes I feel a littlebit for him. But back to Dick Winters,
(02:57):
he's just. His leadershiplessons and the examples that they
brought out that StephenAmbrose wrote about in the book and
that they kind of highlightedin the miniseries and stuff like
that. I mean, those are. Imean, they're studied now.
Yeah. So I think of it as.When we talk about the Greatest Generation,
(03:19):
we talk about World War II,and really when we talk about Dick
Winters, I think of DickWinters more as the symbol of those
men. Because it's a lot I wantto express to people that even the
military was a lot differentwhen we served. People did not push
themselves forward. People didnot push their merits forward. People
did not talk about what theydid. It's become so popular now for
(03:42):
people to be like, I was theone who did it. Nobody did that.
Even when I was going through,we kept quiet, we put our heads down.
We didn't take pictures, wedidn't take videos of ourselves.
We did the job. Dick Wintersis that guy. And there were many
guys like Dick Winters. And Ithink that that's what I try to stress
(04:03):
is, yes, is he a great exampleof somebody who served their country
honorably? A small town boywho went and helped save America.
But there were many small townboys who went and helped save America.
Yeah. And I think you do agood job of talking about that in
a video. I think he even saidkind of, you know, he reminds you
(04:24):
a little bit above of the,like, the Bedford boys. Right. And
we have separate videos onthat. And for folks listening to
the podcast, I'll link thoseold episodes, podcast episodes and
video episodes in the shownotes. But yeah, he was quite an
amazing person and pretty coolthat he was from Pennsylvania, so
you got to visit his grave.
Yeah. And I think, too, it'sbecause of Ambrose, because of the
(04:46):
miniseries, his story comesout. Yeah, he was never that guy
who was pushing out his storyeither. So you think about how many
stories Dink had pushed out.Now we celebrate Dick Winters. I
think to celebrate him is alsoto celebrate these other men. But.
But he's from Pennsylvania.He's from a small rural area outside
of Penn State, outside ofGettysburg, that I seem to mispronounce,
(05:08):
even though I went to PennState and I'M from the P, Pennsylvania
area.
Yeah, so. So. So for those whohaven't seen the episode or looked
at the comments, you know, sowe pronounce it. He's his. The grave
site is outside of Lancaster,Pennsylvania. And that's how you
spell it. L, A, N, C, A, S, T,E, R. Yeah. Lancaster, Lancaster.
We have plenty of folks fromthe area who say it's pronounced
(05:30):
Lancaster. And I'm like, Jenand I were talking earlier, and please
feel free to shoot us an emailor drop us a comment if you have
a thought on this, but justbecause someone's from an area and
they have an accent does notmean that accent is the correct pronunciation
of a word. So just because yousay Lancaster does not mean that
(05:52):
that's how the word istechnically pronounced. But we just.
We find those kinds of thingsentertaining. JD Deals with that
all the time, especially whenhe's traveling overseas from history
underground. So. But yeah,just a funny aside.
And if you know me, I have areal hard time with pronunciation
anyway.
Yes, my. My wickedly smartwife cannot pronounce words that
(06:15):
are ever so slightly difficultor if the word is sheriff.
So I. I want understood,though. I don't want anyone to get
upset. Like, when I talk aboutheroes, and I do this really, when
I talk about Little Round Topand Strong Vincent and Chamberlain,
and when we talk about Wintersand his heroism and other people's
(06:35):
heroism, I'm not taking awayfrom Winter's heroism. When I say
there were other men likeWinters. It's not like pie. I said
that on the DressingGettysburg podcast. It's not like
everyone gets a limited amountof slices of heroism. It's me saying
that we. Winters portraysthese. This heroism. But remember
all the men that went over andfought during World War II, and they
(06:57):
don't tell their storiesbecause they were. They did it. They
were done. They saw so much.Winter saw so much. Even he says
he didn't have PTSD until theywere filming Band of Brothers, and
he went to a location and sawpeople in. In reenacting, and he
(07:18):
couldn't. He couldn't walk on set.
Yeah.
So they. They dropped. Theyleft it behind. Right? They fought
this war. They were drafted todo it. They were heroes. They saved
the world. And then they wentback to their lives. And Dick Winter's
story just got told becauseStephen Ambrose picked it up and
told the story. The miniserieswas a huge success. But just know
(07:41):
that men came home and livetheir lives. They baby boomed. Right?
They. He went back to work inPennsylvania, had a farm Outside
of Hershey. And I. I heardfrom people who'd, like, he would.
He would be involved in thecommunity and stuff.
But, yeah, he was just aregular guy.
A regular guy. And so I wantit to be understood that Winters,
(08:03):
to me, represents those heroesof America, just like the Bedford
boys represent those heroes ofD Day. And it was an honor to go
there. We've talked aboutWinters before on this channel. I
made a specific point to go toAlderborn when I was in England.
And Alderborn was the areathat the 105th Parachute infantry
(08:27):
of the 101st Airborne, the 2ndBattalion, Easy Company, was based
at before they jumped on Normandy.
Yeah.
So.
So for our listeners, pictureEngland in your head. Right? Picture
the uk, Great Britain. Right.The little island up there, the kind
of southern part of it. Thenthere's the English Channel. Then
on the other side of theEnglish channels, you know, the northern
(08:49):
part of France. So the Americashipped all its, you know, its folks
out to that southern part ofEngland so they could sit there,
train, prep for D Day for theinvasion of France so they could
come drive the Germans out. Sothat's where Dick Winters was. That's
where Easy Company was. Sopicture England, that southern, southern
(09:10):
part of it. Right. Right downthere. And they were there for what,
like, nine months?
They were there for about ninemonths in November 1943, all the
way into June of 44. That'sthat countryside they said best represented
France.
Yeah.
And so they practiced jumping there.
Yeah.
(09:31):
So they could get an idea ofwhat that looked like and felt like.
And they stayed in these huts.And I take you to the location where
those huts were located, but Ireally took you to the church there
because that is where Wintersmeets the Barnes family. And the
Barnes family is who Wintersis quartered with during this time.
(09:54):
It's him and another officer.And he says being with that normal
family who just lost their sonin the Battle of Britain, reinforce
what he was fighting for. Thisnormalcy of life, this normalcy of.
Of living your life andwanting just your. Your basic hopes
and dreams of. Of a normallife. And so I take you to that location,
(10:18):
sit on that bench exactlywhere Winter sat, so you can kind
of get that same kind offeeling. Plus, I. It means a lot
for me and you because asofficers, we lead people. Yeah, Right.
We.
We have to instill thatmotivation. We have to instill that
leadership and think Wintersis about to lead his men on D Day.
(10:41):
This is huge. And he's gonna.If you know anything about the. The
101st and the airborne, theygo behind the enemy line. So he's
going to be jumping behindthat front beach of Normandy. They
go behind Utah beach and MayorSaint Igles in that area there, and
they're kind of taking theenemy from the back side. And so
(11:03):
you have to jump with all yourgear. You have to jump with your
weapon. Like, it's just a lot to.
Well, well. And that's one ofthe things that I appreciated about
the other miniseries that wasput out a couple years ago was Masters
of the Air is it shows howdangerous just flying in there was.
Right. There was no guaranteethey would even be able to jump.
(11:23):
Right. If you watch theMasters of the Air miniseries that
they put, that StevenSpielberg put out on Apple tv. Plus,
you know, it does a phenomenaljob of kind of. This is more B17
centric. Right. So it's notone massive, you know, thing, but
it does a good job of kind ofshowing how dangerous just those
flight missions were. And soeven on D Day, there was no guarantee
(11:45):
that they were even going tomake it past the coastline because
they had those coastal,coastal defenses there shooting down
airplanes all the time. And sothat's, that's. They could do all
this, all this training andall this stuff and everything, and
they would still be at risk ofgetting shot down out of the sky.
Yeah. And so it's just these,these men just, it's just I want
(12:08):
to honor that heroism becausethese men, if you look at Dick Winters
training, I mean, he comesfrom this small town in Pennsylvania.
He's born in New Holland,Pennsylvania. They moved to nearby.
When was he born?
He was born in 1918. January 21st.
Okay, so just after World War I.
Just after World War I. Andthey moved to. How do you say that
(12:29):
again? E P H R A T era.
E P H R A T A.
Yes. Efrata. That's where he's buried.
Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania. And then theymoved to Lancaster when he was eight
years old. Lancaster,Lancaster. He graduates from Lancaster
boys High School 1937, andthen he attends Franklin Marshall
College. I also want to stressto people, most officers will have
(12:53):
gone to college, and that'swhy he's an officer. He graduates
in June 1941. So the perfecttime right before the bombing of
Pearl harbor.
And then he signs up himself.Right. He's not even drafted.
I think he, I think he, hechose to volunteer under the Selective
Service after graduating forcollege and complete. And complete
(13:14):
the required one year ofservice rather than waiting for a
conventional call up.
Yeah.
Because it might Interrupt hisbusiness career. So he was very kind
of aw. Of, of he didn't wantto be starting his career and then
having to go. So he's like, Iwant to go first. And he's deducted
into the Army. August 25,1941, near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
(13:36):
And then he goes to SouthCarolina for basic training and he
goes to office of candidateschool at Fort Benning. And that's
where he's commissioned asecond lieutenant out of OCS 7-2-1942.
Okay.
So you can think Pearl Harborshappen. 42. And then that's when
he decides to join theParachute Infantry. And that's when
(13:58):
he goes to Camp Tokka.
I think it's Toccoa.
Toccoa. Oh my gosh. People aregonna lose their mind when they hear
me say this wrong. EspeciallyBand of Brothers.
Maybe I'll, maybe I'll leaveit in. I won't edit it out.
I just know this is the joy ofbeing around me and pronouncing words.
I'll let our listenersappreciate how while I produce our
(14:19):
show.
And that's, that's the commandthat's commanded by Colonel Sink.
Yeah.
And we visit Sink's grave in Arlington.
Yeah. And, and it'sinteresting too that he said, okay,
I'm going to sign up, youknow, under my selective service
agreement. Just so I can onlyneed, initially need to do a year.
(14:40):
Right. So I can go run mybusiness afterwards. And that was
again, because pre, pre PearlHarbor, Pearl harbor probably happens.
And I imagine, right. If he'sin the middle of his training, he
hasn't even finished, youknow, some of his basic training
yet. Everybody like on thatday are like, okay, you guys are
going to stick around a littlebit longer. Because I imagine they,
they probably just said, hey,yeah, if you were, if you had a one
(15:01):
year contract, you now have afour year contract.
Yeah. And I think too, it wasprobably like us who were in the
military during 9 11.
Yeah.
We didn't care.
Yeah.
I bet. Because there was soPearl harbor motivated so much of
America to join the war. Whenyou think about us being attacked.
Same for 9 11. After 9 11,like recruiting couldn't, couldn't
(15:21):
keep up with the amount ofpeople that wanted to sign up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he probably felt, okay,yeah, whatever is needed, I'm going
to do. But that's when hejoins the Easy Company. It's Company
e of the 2nd Battalion, 506thParachute Infantry Regiment E Easy.
So that's where that EasyCompany comes from. And, and then
(15:41):
the Training at To Koa wasvery difficult. Of the 500 officers
who had volunteered, only 148completed the course. So it was very
difficult.
I didn't realize that.
Yeah. I. And just think aboutwhen they did kind of show on Band
of Brothers, them running.
Yeah. Kurt, Was it Curry Hill?
Yeah. Like, people yell it,but they're in full gear.
(16:02):
Yeah.
And I don't know if anyone'sever run in full gear. I mean, boots
alone, every. I think I have,like, two pounds per foot when you
have your boots on. Andthey're not very forgiving when your
feet. And then you're carryingyour rifle.
Yeah. And their pack and allthe stuff.
And they're packing your helmet.
Yeah.
That's a. That's a lot.
Yeah. I didn't realize it wasthat much of a attrition out of that
(16:24):
course. Out of that. That. Outof that training. That's cool.
Yeah, it's cool. But when youthink about it, too, like, what do
you think you're gonna havewhen you jump into theater?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Right. You're gonna be runningwith all of this gear. And I was
just watching something aboutthe American Revolution yesterday.
There was a group heard thefighting and ran four miles in full
gear in 40 minutes to meet theenemy. Patriots. Right.
(16:48):
This is American Revolution.
American Revolution. But thisis over terrain. Things that haven't
been cut. Right. And they'recarrying their rifles and they hear
the fight and they're runningto it. So that's the same kind of
mindset that you're gettinghere. Like, you have to be able to
do all of this in your fullgear because that's what you're going
to have with you.
Sure.
And so that all that trainingtakes place in. Is that in Georgia?
(17:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you cango today. I think JD Has a couple
videos from there. You can goup to the top of them.
He did, like, a cleanup effortor something like that.
Yeah. Because people werespray painting at the top of the
mountain. But you can gothere. You can see their barracks
and. Super cool. Then we'vegone to Alderborn and then Normandy,
so we have videos from thereas well. They're going to jump about
(17:35):
a little after midnight onJune 6, 1944. So when you think about
people hitting the beaches,they hit the. Hit the beaches very
early in the morning, butright at sunrise, Easy Company and
the Airborne are jumping atmidnight, close to midnight, very
dark. And if you go toNormandy, you can see what that felt
(17:57):
like. You can stand there inthe Dark jumping. And this is why
so many were scattered.
Yeah.
Because you're not seeinganything. You're jumping at night.
That's for protection forthem. Right. And so they're jumping
into St. Mary Glass. And he.Winters will jump definitely safely
near St. Mary Glass. Now, atthat time, he's not commander of
(18:19):
Easy Company. The commander ofEasy Company is killed that night.
Oh, really? His plane willcrash, and he's killed one of the
airborne inside that plane.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Winters doesn't quite knowthat. But he can't find him when
they land, and so he de factojust takes command.
Sure.
Right. And again, as officers,we understand how that works. It's
(18:40):
quick, it's fast. You just.You have to keep moving forward.
Yeah. You get you, you getthose around you organized, and you.
And you get them set up, setin the right direction until you
figure out. Can figure outwhat's going on and that.
And he kind of just maintainsthat command all through the Normandy
Campaign because again, theynever. He never knows what happens
to the. His fate is not knownuntil after the fact.
(19:01):
Yeah.
And that's when he's going tolead that big assault. Bright court
record. That is the one wherethey destroy the battery of the German
howitzers. And this is wherethose were firing on Utah Beach.
So this is where he gathershis men, he trains, he gives them
a real quick, you know, thisis what we're going to do, a plan.
(19:23):
And they go and take thatarea. Winters has 13 men, and they
defeat a platoon of 50 Germantroops. That attack is still studied
at West Point.
I think I remember you talkingabout that on. At the Normandy video.
Yeah, it's. It's a textbookexample of an assault on a fixed
position by a numerical. By.By an inferior force.
(19:46):
Yeah.
So how do you. And they usekind of what they call a kind of
wagon wheel approach becausethey kind of move around. But. Yeah.
So we go there in my Normandyvideo. We'll take you there to where
that was. That is the locationwhere Dick Winters probably should
have won the Medal of Honor.Probably should have received the
Medal of Honor. Now he didn't.He gets the. The second Silver Cross
(20:10):
for valor. And the reason whyhe doesn't. Because people ask, why
didn't he get it? It's becauseat the time, you only got one per
unit.
Oh, really?
It was very controlled.
Oh.
And someone had already gottenit for his.
I know.
For that particular unit. Somore than like before, for what Winters
(20:31):
did in that moment, taking 13men, taking command Giving them tactics,
taking this whole battery of.Of German guns that are firing on
Utah Beach. And again, you cango there today. They have monuments
right there. It's reallyawesome to see. For those actions,
more than likely, he shouldhave received the Medal of Honor.
(20:52):
Wow.
And actually, if somebodywanted to go on our campaign to get
him one, he probably stillcould get it.
He probably could now. I mean,they, they award that those.
You know, posthumously andhonestly, I think for his actions
that day. But we all know it.
Yeah.
And we all definitelycommemorate him for it. But he. And
so on July 1, he was promotedto captain, and that's when he was
(21:17):
also told that he was.
The commander.
Commander of Easy Company aswell. And Omar Bradley presents him
with the Distinguished ServiceCross. So Lieutenant General Omar
Bradley, he's the commander ofthe US first army, will give him
the Distinguished ServiceCross for his actions.
(21:39):
So for the miniseries. And Iimagine. Right. If you haven't seen
the miniseries. Absolutely. Gowatch it. It's a generational type
miniseries. It's phenomenal. Idon't know a single person that doesn't
like it. Is it prettyaccurate? Just in general, we're
(22:00):
not going to try to break downthe whole miniseries in this one
podcast episode, but ingeneral, is it relatively accurate
to. To life as far as, like,what they did and what he did and
stuff like that?
Yeah, I would say it's. Ihaven't heard much. The only thing
I've heard the criticism wasSobel, like you had said.
Yeah. Yeah.
So was family.
He was kind of like hisantagonism was blown out of proportion.
(22:22):
Yeah, it's a little bigger than.
Yeah.
But no, I think for the mostpart it was accurate. And. And if
you want to dive more into theaccuracy of Stephen Ambrose, we have
a whole other podcast.
Yeah, that's a great point.There was a couple things that, that
are relatively obvious thatweren't accurate in the miniseries.
A couple people who Ambrosewrote who died. That person totally
(22:46):
didn't die, went on to have asuccessful career and went on to
Korea. Right. So there's acouple characters in the miniseries
and in his book. So if you'reever reading the book or if you've
read the book, I'd encourageyou to kind of go watch our video
and I'll link that particularvideo where we talk about Ambrose
and some of thosecontroversies while we're at the
World War II Museum in NewOrleans. But he, he did take some
(23:09):
liberties to kind of tell thestory. So again, his books are always
a great place to Start.
Yes.
Not necessarily 100 factuallycorrect. So just something to. To
consider when you're doingthis. But yeah, that's one thing
that I was always curiousabout, because Hollywood will do
its thing and we'll make itappear very Hollywood. But it appears
(23:33):
to me that the majority of thestories we hear about the characters
and Dick Winters was actuallypretty true.
Pretty true. I mean, you seeat the end, the war weariness.
Yeah.
They. They give his men ordersto go capture some German prisoners
of war. And he's like, no, whywould I put my men in danger?
(23:54):
Well, after they had alreadydone it once. But the night before.
Yes.
And the. And the. I think thecolonel was like, that's great. Let's
go do it again. And so hegives. There's a classic scene, and
I put it in a recent video,the classic scene where he says,
okay, this is what we're goingto do. This is what we're going to
do. You know, we're going togo across the river and we're going
to try to capture someprisoners of war. Now, I expect you
all to get a good night'srest, because in the morning you're
(24:16):
going to tell me that youcrossed the river and you were unsuccessful
in capturing any prisoners ofwar. And they all just kind of look
at them. They don't send.Nobody says anything.
Yep.
And he's like, do you guysunderstand? You understand? And they
just say, yes, sir. Knowingthat. What that means to them is
he's saying, without saying,we're not going to carry out this
(24:36):
mission because we know it'sjust. It's going to get somebody
killed.
Yep.
You're going to get a goodnight's sleep. And we're going to
tell them we didn't catchanybody in the morning.
Yeah. I think again, goodleadership. He's showing good leadership.
He's showing his men areworld. He needs to really be thinking
about his men right now andhow just exhausted they are and.
And why would he unnecessarilyput their lives at risk for something
(25:00):
with little gain and all thatthey have done? Because he's going
to be in the Battle of theBulge. He's going to be in the Battle
of Baston. I mean, he's goingto be. They break into the Eagle's
Nest, they're going to getinto Hitler's headquarters. And really,
like, he has enough points tobe done with his time in the army
(25:21):
and he decides to stay. Heremains during the process of occupation
and demobilization, and he'soffered A regular commission, but
he declines it. And then heseparates from the army in November
of 1945.
Wow.
So he. When you think aboutit, he's there for the duration of
everything, basically.
(25:42):
The whole time America was inthe war, he was in it.
Yeah. And so. And again, likeI said, he's recommended for the
Medal of Honor, but he getsthe second highest award for combat
valor, the DistinguishedService Cross instead. And then he.
It says here, after therelease of Band of Brothers, representative.
Representative forPennsylvania introduced a bill asking
(26:03):
the President to grant themedal, but the bill died in the House
Armed Services Committee in2007. So maybe someone needs to pick
that back up. I don't know.After the discharge from the army,
he worked with a close friend,Captain Nixon, and at his family
business in New Jersey, now inEdison Township.
Okay.
(26:23):
And he became a generalmanager. And then he gets married
in 1948 to Ethel. Remember theE names?
Yeah. His mom had an E name.
Yeah. Edith.
Yeah.
And then he pursues hiseducation through the GI Bill. He
takes some courses at Rutgers,and then they buy a small farm in
1945 and they raise twochildren. He actually is recalled
(26:45):
to active duty during theKorean War. He was ordered to join
the 11th Airborne Division,and he's given six months to report.
He actually met with ageneral, explained that he had seen
enough of the war, explainedthat if he was needed, he would go.
He reports to Fort Dix, andthen he was assigned as a training
(27:06):
officer. And then hevolunteers to go to Ranger School,
where he passed and became aRanger. He received orders to deploy
to Korea, traveled to Seattle,and then he was offered the option
of resigning his commission,which he accepted. So.
So he basically kind of justwas recalled and ended up training
soldiers. Yeah. You know, forthe Korean War.
He was going to go intotheater and then was offered the
(27:29):
resign commission. He took it.And I think after you've seen so
much. Right. I always saythat, too. You'll know when you feel
like you've spent your ninelives and you'll know, like, I don't
want to push the envelope.
Well, and one of the thingsthat I kind of appreciate about the
whole. I'll call it, exampleof Dick winners is that at that time
(27:52):
in that era, it was rare, andyou kind of had to have the highest
level of attention to get tobe spotlighted in. I'll call it the
media at the time, because itwas just difficult to do in the 40s,
50s, 60s, you know, became alittle bit more prevalent in the
60s with 60s and 70s.
(28:13):
Yeah. You got the Black sheepwith Pepe Boyington and stuff. People
really wanted to push that Aviation.
Yeah.
For it. Because people.
And, and again, if you. We. Welook back on it, we're like, how
do people not know more abouthim? You know, back then? It's because
there was, you know, tons ofmen doing what he did. Right. And
he was recalled because that'swhat. The draft was still a thing.
And so rather than draft, theywould recall soldiers that were already
(28:36):
trained. And the draft didn'tgo away until the 70s. And so that's
kind of what I appreciateabout the whole example of him is
he wasn't really pushed to theforefront. Easy Company wasn't really
pushed to the forefront tillthe book in the miniseries. And then
he passed away not too longafter, I think the miniseries came
(28:57):
out.
So he. Well, I. He. He goesinto business for himself. He sells
animal feed in Pennsylvania.He moves his family to Hershey. He
retires in 1997 at 79. Now,Stephen Ambrose book comes out in
1992, but the miniseries comesout. Right. At 9 11.
Yeah, that's right.
Right. He's featured in anumber of books in 90s. And he's
(29:20):
also. When the miniseriescomes out, he goes to the Emmy PrimeTime
Awards in 2002. There's a lotmore written about him. People will
write about the. The BiggestBrother, the life of Major Dick Winters.
He writes his own memoir in2006, and then he gives a number
of lectures. He's given anhonorary doctorate at Franklin and
(29:40):
Marshall. So once his storycomes out, people do want to recognize
him.
Right. And that's what, again,that's kind of what I like about
him as the example is hewasn't pushed to the forefront. When
he was right after he finishedhis military service, it was like
(30:03):
he was 80. Right. Basically,he was basically 80 by the time,
you know, in his 80s, by thetime he was kind of recognizing and
had this spotlight. And atthat point in your life, you're kind
of like. I understood, like,his, his stance. Right. Like we talked
about in the beginning of thepodcast is he feels like he was just.
He wasn't the hero, but he.
Yeah.
Served with heroes.
(30:24):
So that was his. That. I lovethat quote, and I. I say that quote
at his grave. And despite themany accolades he received, he always
remained humble about hisservice. And then it was an interview
for Band of Brothers. And soin the miniseries final Scene, he's
quoted a passage from a letterhe received from a sergeant, and
(30:45):
it said, I cherish theMemories of a question my grandson
asked me the other day when hesaid, grandpa, were you a hero in
the war? And Grandpa said, no,but I served in a company of heroes.
Yeah. It's just. It's just sophenomenal. You know, I love in the
recognition he got is athousand percent deserved, but I
(31:06):
love that he is just kind ofthe. In my eyes, the example of men
who served at that time.
Yeah.
Who did their time, and thenthey came back and they went back
to their regular lives andthey ran a business in. Outside of
Hershey, Pennsylvania. Right.Or Lancaster. Lancaster. Or whatever
it was. Right. And that's whatI absolutely love about that. And.
(31:29):
And that's what I respect somuch about my fellow, you know, servicemen
and women today. I just raninto an old match chief that I used
to work with at Subway. Wewere both sitting there, and I didn't
recognize him because he hadlong hair and a beard. Classic Navy
move. And he put his order in.I didn't recognize him. I started
putting my order in. He turnsover and looks at me. He was like,
(31:50):
hey, Master Chief. Camera. Iwas like, oh, my gosh. And I actually
used more colorful language. Iwas like, how are you? Because he
and I worked together. It wasprobably seven or eight years ago.
And I just absolutely lovethat when people retire and they
go back to their regularlives. And we stood the watch. Right.
And Dick Winters, he stood thewatch, along with his band of brothers.
(32:11):
Yeah. Unfortunately, he willpass January 2, 2011. So right before
his birthday, he was in anassisted living in Campbell Belltown,
Pennsylvania. He dies at 92.He had suffered from Parkinson's,
the ends of his life. He'sburied in a private funeral service.
And we take you to thatlocation in Bergstrass, Bergstrous
(32:37):
Evangelical Lutheran ChurchCemetery and very old cemetery. When
I take you there, there weregravestones from the early 1700s.
Oh, wow.
Like it? This was one of theoriginal areas of Pennsylvania.
That's cool.
And if you know anything aboutLancaster, this is kind of the Amish
(32:57):
country. Like, this is oldschool. You will see people in horse
and buggies there. Like, thisis the old school area of Pennsylvania.
Ethel will die in April of2012 and join him. His gravestone
is very unassuming.
Yeah, we've had comments, youknow, comments on that. And it was
like, well, an unassuminggrave for an unassuming man.
(33:17):
It just says Richard D.Winters. His middle name was Davis,
World War 201st Airborne.That's all it says.
Yeah. And you'll recognize itbecause There's. I mean, even when
you went there, there wasflags already around it. And so people
are kind of visiting and kindof paying their own homage to him.
So I just think it was neatthat you got to go do that. You were
out visiting Gettysburg and onthe Addressing Gettysburg podcast,
(33:39):
and you took the time to kindof make the drive out there to kind
of visit that. And I think itwas just really neat.
It was important to me. And Ialso. I want to thank the History
Museum of Gettysburg becausethere's a photograph of Winters leaving
on the train station fromLancaster with his family. And I
was able to go to theLancaster train station. The building
(34:02):
looks exactly the same fromthe 1940s and stand in the same position.
This is when winters leaves in1943 to get. Pick up the ship to
go to England. But I was ableto recreate that photograph. So he's
buried about 15 minutes fromthat location.
Yeah. Yeah. No, it wasawesome. And again, for those listening
for our audience, I encourageyou guys to go check out our other
(34:24):
episodes. I will link ourother podcast episodes to From Alder
Barn and Normandy, as well asthe video episodes if you guys want
to watch those. So thank youso much for. For joining us and talking
about Dick Winters, and we'lltalk to you guys next time.
Yeah, thank you.
This has been Walk withHistory production. Talk with History
(34:44):
is created and hosted by me,Scott Benny. Episode researched by
Jennifer Benny. Check out theshow notes for links and references
mentioned in this episode.Talk with History is supported by
ourfans@thehistoryroadtrip.com our eternal
thanks go out to thoseproviding funding to help keep us
going. Thank you to DougMcLiberty, Larry Myers, Patrick Benny,
(35:05):
Gail Cooper, Christy Coates,and Calvin Gifford. Make sure you
hit that follow button in thatpodcast player and we'll talk to
you next time.
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