June 23, 2025 • 27 mins
Let's dive into the enchanting world of Oak Alley Plantation! This iconic spot is famous for its jaw-dropping 800-foot alley lined with ancient live oaks, and it's not just a pretty face; it has a rich and complex history.
From its beginnings in the early 1800s, the plantation became a shining star in Louisiana's sugar industry, earning its owner the title of "King of Sugar." But hold onto your hats, because the story isn’t all sunshine and magnolias—over 220 enslaved people worked this land, and their stories are just as crucial to understanding Oak Alley today.
So, whether you're a history buff or just here for the beautiful scenery, we’re unpacking it all in this episode!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Talk with History.I'm your host Scott, here with my
wife and historian Jen.
Hello.
On this podcast, we give youinsights to our history Inspired
World Travels YouTube channelJourney and examine history through
deeper conversations with thecurious, the explorers and the history
lovers out there. Imaginewalking down a breathtaking 800 foot
(00:26):
alley of centuries oldsouthern live oaks, their massive
branches creating a naturalcathedral ceiling above you. These
majestic trees planted in theearly 1800s form a signature feature
of the world's most famousplantation, giving Oak Alley its
memorable name. The mansionthat anchors the property became
(00:49):
one of the crown jewels ofLouisiana's Sugar bowl, earning its
owner the nickname King ofSugar. But historians know that this
prosperity came at a terriblehuman cost. With over 220 enslaved
people working these groundsbetween 1836 and the Civil War. Movie
buffs might recognize OakAlley from Interview with the Vampire
where it served as Louiseplantation home. But beyond its Hollywood
(01:14):
connection, the site offersauthentic insights into antebellum
Louisiana, from the complexsugar production process to the daily
lives of both the plantationown and the enslaved workers. Let's
explore the history of OakAlley Plantation. All right, Jen,
(01:36):
now, before we jump intotalking about a place that you have
tried to visit numerous times,I do want to kind of say thank you
to our audience. So we areabout to hit 50,000 subscribers on
YouTube. And so for thoselistening, I do want to say thank
you to you guys because ourpodcast audience, that's been growing
(01:58):
over the years as well, westarted about a year after the YouTube
channel. But, you know, Iwould be remiss if I didn't say thank
you to what I think is a corepart of our audience, and that is
our listeners to this podcast,because you guys spend just a good
amount of time with us. And Idon't know about our listeners, but
I always consider myself afriend of any podcast host that I
(02:21):
listen to on my favoritepodcast. So I just wanted to say
thank you to our listeners.Thank you to our YouTube subscribers.
As we get closer to hittingthat, that, that fun 50k mark, this
is just an opportune time forus to say thanks.
Yeah, this is pretty amazing.You said what? A year ago we were
at 10,000.
Two years ago we were about tocross 10,000.
(02:42):
And just how exponentiallywe've grown. It's all because of
you, and it's all because ofour community and our interaction
and how you gu resonated withthe topics and the questions you
ask and more you want to knowand the things we go out and see.
So thank you so much for justbeing such an interactive part of
our community. Again, leavecomments, Let us know what you're
(03:03):
interested in, what you liked,what you learned, something else
that you're curious about.And, you know, give us those five
star reviews because thosereviews really do help us grow. It
helps people to find us, ithelps the algorithm to push us to
the top and all those things.So we just really appreciate our
community so much and we, wejust love all of you. So thank you.
Yeah, thank you so much. Allright, Jen, So Oak Alley Plantation.
(03:30):
I only ever knew it for thevery first time because you loved
Interview with a Vampire. Youwere a massive Brad Pit fan.
A massive Brad Pit fan. And Ithink this movie was part of that
love of Brad Pit because heacts so well in this because it's
Interview with the Vampire,right? And he's the one who's being
interviewed in the, in the movie.
(03:52):
Well, and, and the movieitself setting, which is at the plantation,
right? That's. That's hishome. It, it's, it completely encapsulates
the vibe they're going for inthe movie with the oak trees and
the plant. It's just beautifuland it just sets the mood. So it
was kind of the perfecthistoric plantation, the historic
home for a movie like that.
(04:13):
It was because he introduceshimself as Creole. Right. And so
that place is what you wouldthink of as a Creole plantation.
Right. Anne Rice is from NewOrleans, so she's writing about the
people of New Orleans or NewOrleans and Nalans, however you want
to say it. People willcritique my pronunciation, but Louis
is the owner of thisplantation. Now. This plantation,
(04:36):
Oak Alley, is like the jewelin the crown of the sugar plantation
world. He wouldn't, at his agethat he's like in his 20s, he wouldn't
own this plantation unless hehad inherited it from a family member,
which is, that's how this,this plantation is given from the
king of sugar who owns allthese plantations. Amay. He's the
(04:59):
one who introduces sugar tothe New Orleans area. He gives it
to his brother in law. Sothat's kind of how the brother in
law even gets this jewel inthe crown. Plantation is because
it's, it's in the family.Louis would have to have had some
kind of connection like that.
And Louis, Brad's character.
And so Creole. I always haveto explain what Creole means too.
(05:21):
So Creole is this it. It. Theword means colony. It's a loose way
to say colony. It means anyonewho's born in that new colony of
New Orleans Louisiana. And youcan come from any background that
is mixing with the French, theSpanish, the African, and the Native
American. So it's fourcultures that are basically being
(05:44):
slammed together. And what iscoming out of that is the Creole
culture, because they're allcoming together. They're all kind
of melting together and makingthis Creole culture. So that's what
people consider themselvesCreole. And so it is the perfect
setting for this Creole lifestyle.
Now, one of the things that Iactually learned when I think you
(06:04):
were. I don't remember if itmade it into the video or not. One
of the things that you saidthat I believe you learned and you
were explaining to me was thedifference between Creole and. And
Cajun. So I thought that wasactually really interesting.
So people will get themconfused sometimes and kind of use
them interchangeably. They'renot. The Cajun culture is Canadian,
so it's French Canadians, andthey were loyalists during the war,
(06:26):
and they're basically kickedout of Canada. And so they have to
come down to New Orleans tokind of reset up shop.
So that. So that's reallywhere that kind of the French vibe
and that kind of part of thatNew Orleans and Southern Louisiana
culture, that piece of it,that French piece of it comes from
the Cajun side.
Yes.
(06:46):
And the Creole was kind of allthe other melting pot.
It's a melting pot because ifyou think of New Orleans, we visited
there and you saw our video.If you saw our video on that, how
they have the four flags, andit kind of was under French rule,
then it's under Spanish rule,then it goes back to French rule
for a couple years, then theAmericans buy it. So it's kind of
like it's having all of thesecultures mixed. Big enslavement there.
(07:08):
All these Africans are there,plus you, you've came. You've come
there, and the first peoplesare already there. Right. The Cherokees,
the different American Indiansare already there. So it's those
four cultures that arebasically melting together to create
the Creole culture. Cajun arethose French Canadians that get kicked
out of Canada. And that's whyyou can still speak Cajun French,
(07:29):
because it's a different typeof French. Think of Montreal people
coming down from Canada, andthey're known for their spicy food.
They're known for that type ofculture. So the two separate things,
it's not the same. But if youdon't know the difference, people
kind of use them interchangeably.
Yeah, I just. I just thoughtthat was really interesting because
I had always kind ofassociated the two together. Again,
(07:51):
I Just didn't really know anybetter. So tell us a little bit about
Oak Alley and the history.And, you know, he said it was the
crown jewel of the kind ofthat sugar bowl that is southern
New Orleans where they weregrowing all this sugar cane and stuff
like that. It's about, what,30 minutes northwest of New Orleans
or so.
Well, to drive it was about anhour. So we have a funny story about
(08:14):
Oak Alley. I felt like theuniverse did not want me to see it,
right? I felt like there wassomething keeping me away from Oak
Alley Plantation because I hadgone there multiple times, right,
for my 40th birthday, gone toNew Orleans, had my girlfriends come
in. My birthday's in December.It snowed like crazy in New Orleans
(08:35):
in December. And Oak Alley wascovered in snow. And we drove out
there because, I'll be honestwith you, New Orleans snow and Pennsylvania
snow are two separate things.And I was fine driving from New Orleans
to Oak Alley, which took aboutan hour. And they closed it when
I got there. And the lady hadsaid, well, we don't have anyone
(08:56):
here who can show youanything. And I was like, I can tell
you how a sugar plantationworks. So they let me. They didn't
open the main house, but theylet me walk around. They let me go
to the gift shop. It's knownfor its big gift shop and restaurant
there.
So you got to see it in the snow.
I got to see it in the snow.And then I always. And I had told
you, and you were like, oh,we'll make a point to go back someday.
And we just never made it. SoI. I'm 47 now, so I haven't seen
(09:19):
it for seven years. And nowthat I am the historian on American
Cruise Line, we stopped thereas part of one of our excursions
and I got to go and see it.Yes. New, this area of Louisiana,
I would say from New Orleansup to Baton Rouge, a little bit farther
up, has the climate for sugar.And you need almost a 12 year growing
(09:43):
cycle to grow sugar cane.That's why it's very popular in the
West Indies. That's why it'svery popular in Hawaii, some areas
in Florida, because you haveto have this hot, tropical, subtropical
climate. It needs to have thishumidity, it needs to have this just
this hot growing cycle forsugar cane to grow. And along the
(10:03):
Mississippi, where you get theflooding in the Delta and you get
that soil that's rich innutrients, was a great place to grow
sugarcane. Now Abay is the manwho introduced the sugar cane to
the area. He his plantationsare what are today the New Orleans
Zoo and Tulane and downtownNew Orleans. Like he owned all of
(10:25):
that.
So was he like one of theoriginal kind of sugar cane planters,
you know, plantation owners?
Yes, he brought a free man ofcolor from the South Indies and he
showed him how to do it. Okay.Basically you're, you're, they use
kind of what they call a caneho method where they dug out a big
square and they would put twosugar cane plants in the square and
(10:45):
cover them in manure and theywould do tons of those squares a
day. And you would let thesugar cane grow for about five, five
months and it would get highover your head and then you'd have
to harvest the sugar cane,these huge stocks of sugar cane.
And you immediately have tocrush sugar cane so to get the juice
(11:05):
out of it. And if you don'tcrush it right away, it can spoil.
So you, that's why this, thisprocess is so labor intensive. And
then we'll get to like afteryou juice it, what do you do with
that juice? But Oak Alley,because of its proximity right there
in New Orleans, because a Mayhad owned it, he gifts it to his
brother in law, Roman. TheRoman family. So Jacques Roman will
(11:31):
the, is the man who will plantthe oak trees. 800ft of live oak.
And live oak is the name ofthe oak tree. It's not their live
oaks. Live oak is the name ofthe oak tree. So that's, he plants
those trees in 1830. And sowith not, you know, it's like planting
something that you don't knowwhat it's eventually going to be.
(11:53):
You're not going to see it inyour lifetime. The house is built
in 1836, completed 1839. Thisis all enslaved labor that is doing
this. So building that housewas all enslaved labor. They have
these pillars around theplantation, the main house, the big
house and all the bricks thatwere laid. Everything was done within
enslaved labor.
(12:14):
And it's a beautiful home. Soobviously we've, we've made a video
from there. So that video islive on the YouTube channel and I'll
link to it and I'll. And forthose watching this particular video
podcast, I'll put some, someof the, the B roll and the video
shots that you got. But it isa beautiful, I mean it is a gorgeous
plantation home.
Oh yeah, it's. And it's fromInterview with a Vampire. So if you
(12:36):
remember, Brad Pitt will ridedown the main drag with the live
oaks around him and it's rightalong the Mississippi River. So you
see that in the movie. The,that's how, that's why these plantation
houses are right along theMississippi for the commerce, for
the logistics. You can get thebarrels of sugar right onto the ships,
(12:56):
take them right down to NewOrleans main port and get them out
and sell your product.
Now, one of the things thatyou were talking about in the video
was, you'll see in our video,there's kind of like an embankment,
basically like a little hillbetween the plantation and the river.
Now, same thing you see in themovie, because the movie was made
in 1994 or was released in1994. But you said that in the 1800s
(13:18):
when they were doing thesugarcane, that wasn't there. No,
which makes sense, becausepart of what you mentioned in the
video was what they relied onwas when the, when the river would
flood. That's what made thatsoil and that, that kind of farmland,
the plantation land, so fertile.
Yes. So you need the floodingof the Mississippi, and you'd be
(13:38):
able to see the main housefrom the river. They have a widow's
walk on the top of the mainhouse as well, which means you could
go up there and see the shipscoming in and all the ships that
are bringing, your productsare bringing.
So is that like when, Sorry,just like a quick, like, random aside
here. You know, in MaryPoppins, like when the admiral's,
like, shooting his cannon fromthe top of his house. Is that what
(13:59):
that is? That's the widow'swalk. Okay. I, I, I always wondered
that as a kid, and I was justlike, just thought that was a weird
English thing.
So they call it that becauseit would be the widows watching for
their men's ships to come in.And so you see widows walks on any
port town, especially thehouses that are close to ports and
the docks.
I, I had no idea. Sohopefully. Hey, comment if you didn't
(14:22):
know that either, because I,I'm wearing a shirt that says history
buff on it. But I am not, I amnot the history nerd here. Okay,
continue. Sorry.
So, because the house is sofar back from the river, the widow's
walk is useful. Watching theships come in and we were on a riverboat.
That's kind of the types ofboats that would be used at that
time, because we talk again.Riverboats have low drafts. And you're
(14:43):
using the Mississippi river,which it's deepest In New Orleans,
200ft. But as you move up theMississippi, it' get shallower and
shallower. And one of thethings about the Mississippi, you
have to worry about too, issandbars. So you really want a shallow
draft, and that's. These riverboats have that kind of shallow draft.
So you're watching for thoseships. But yeah, the house is built
a little higher, and that'sbecause it would flood all around
(15:05):
it and the house would befine. Plus, I also have to stress
to people, plantation ownersreally didn't live in these homes.
They would come out and visitand make sure their farm is being
taken care of, overseers andthings like that. But these rich,
rich sugar people are livingin New Orleans. They're living in
(15:26):
the mansions in New Orleans.
So I didn't. So did they havelike, essentially like a manager
running it?
Yes, they have an overseerwho's overseeing everything. And
so, I mean, they'll come outevery now and then and visit their
farm home. They'll go to theircountry home. But these are the people
who are living in those hugemansions in New Orleans, having the
huge parties in New Orleans,doing the Mardi Gras. Right. Where
(15:47):
do they get the money to havethis lavish lifestyle? It's their
farms out in the country. Andsugar is the main cash crop out of
Louisiana. So again, when yougo to Oak Alley, you have to remember
you're going to see a lot ofthese cauldrons, and there's going
to be cauldrons all over theplace. And that's very unique to
(16:08):
a sugar plantation becauselike I said, once the sugar cane
is. Is cut and they've crushedthe sugar cane to get the juice out,
and you'll see grinding stonesaround. The juice is immediately
put in cauldrons, and thejuice is a very brown color. And
it's cooked over and overagain probably about eight, nine
(16:29):
times. And it takes a lot oftime, takes a lot of stirring. It
takes a lot of attention.People get specialized in this field.
Now, the byproducts of this,you will know molasses and rum, right?
So when you think of molassesand rum, those are byproducts of
sugar. And so rum is comingout of New Orleans, molasses is coming
(16:49):
out of New Orleans. Because asyou cook off that sediment that brown
to get to a clearer andclearer juice color, you will eventually
put. You'll lighten the juicewith lime juice. You'll put that
in to cool it down. You'll putit in big clay jars and allow that
to sit is for it to evaporate.And then they put a hole in the bottom
of the clay jars. And thesugar that's now Dr. Will come out
(17:13):
as Granulated sugar.
I don't think I realized thatsugar cane was giving them that many
products.
Yes.
Whether it's rum or molassesmakes sense. Right. I just always
just kind of assume sugar.Where sugar came.
Well, the thing is too, like,it's easier to transport rum and
molasses when it comes to,like putting things in barrels and
getting it to New Orleans andthen getting it out to the east coast,
(17:35):
west coast into, you know,England. Like all the trading rum
and molasses are going tohandle a lot easier on a ship than
the white sugar, the whitegold. Right. And that's why it's
so valuable to get that and toget to that stage of sugar making.
But the lifestyle of this isso difficult. Sugar plantation labor.
(17:57):
They say the lifestyle of anenslaved would be about seven to
10 years during this becauseof. It's a, it is a 12 month process.
It is so labor intensive. Whenthey're in the harvest time and they're
into the juice, the juicejuicing time, it's 12 hours on, 12
hours off. And you have twoshifts because it takes 24 hours
to boil this juice. Like Isaid, it can't be left. It can't
(18:20):
be left. You have to keepboiling it until.
It'S a continuous process.
It's a continuous process. Andthat grinding is very dangerous.
They have these grindingmachines and they would not. It would.
It would be very common to seea enslaved men or women without a
hand or without an arm or asugar plant.
Because you're getting caughtin there because.
(18:40):
You'Re so tired and be doingit over and over and your hand gets
caught, your arm gets caughtand it would, they, they would just
chop it off. So it's one ofthose, like, when you think about
what it takes for this kind ofcrop, you really have to talk about
the enslaved that lived at OakAlley. They do a very good job of
telling that story. They havesix enslaved cabins there behind
(19:01):
the main house. And they tell,they have some of the names listed
that historians have found,which I think is very important to,
to say their names and to givethem agency in their stories. But
they talk more about the houseslaves that would have lived there.
Because if you're living closeto the main house, you're more than
(19:22):
likely working in the mainhouse. If you're working in the plantation,
the Acres and Acresplantation, you're not coming back
to the main house every day.There's no reason for you to come
back.
So, so they'd have placeswhere they lived, like out on the
land.
Your enslaved quarters wouldbe out on the land. So the reason
why they have these six slavequarters there is to tell, to give
(19:42):
them their story close towhere people are visiting and tourists
can see. And that way you'regetting that story, even though it's
not authentically where thosehouses would be. And that's why they're
all reconstructed. But theyhave a lot of artifacts in there
to kind of tell their story.
Yeah. And you said that theyactually did a pretty good job of.
Of balancing. Right. Not goingtoo heavy and too dark, but tell
(20:04):
them, like, the true lifestory. Like, hey, let's. We're not
going to shy away from this.Right. So that. And you said. But
then at the same time. Right.Not far off from where the slave
quarters were, there was likea gift shop where you could get mint
juleps.
Yeah.
Whereas I think you hadmentioned. I think after. It didn't
come up in the video, but oneof the other plantations not far
away leans a lot heavier intowhat the enslaved life was like and
(20:28):
stuff like that. But you saidthat as far as Oak Alley went, they
did a good job of kind ofbalancing everything with the real
history. Not shying away fromthat, but also allowing people to
kind of just enjoy the kind ofthe beauty of the grounds today.
Yeah. So they. Because it'ssuch an iconic place in Louisiana
history, you see pictures ofOak Alley everywhere. Like, it's
(20:48):
been an interview with a vampire.
It's. It's.
It's Brad Pitt's house. Thisfilming of him on the front porch,
you know, like I said, goingdown the main drag. Hush, Hush, Sweet
Charlotte was filmed there.It's a movie from the 50s. The long
hard Summer was filmed there.That's a movie from the 80s.
The.
It's been in a lot of TVshows. So they do a good job of balancing
what that Greek revivalplantation home would look like with
(21:11):
the beautiful oaks. Buttelling the story of the enslaved
Whitney plantation, which isclose by, tells the enslaved story.
It just focuses on their storyand their agency, which is also important.
Yeah.
But you have to realizethere's two conflicting lifestyles
that are on this sameplantation. There's the white owners,
(21:32):
and then there's the enslavedpeople, the African American enslaved
people. And both of theirstories are important, and both of
the stories are relevant, butOak Alley is trying to balance that
a little bit. Where Whitneyis, is focusing on one side, and
there's no right or wrongthere because all the stories need
to be told. Oak Alley does areally good job though, of embracing
(21:53):
this part of history. Andthat's why they have the gift shops
and they have a really greatrestaurant there. So if you want
to talk about Creole food orCajun food and then film history,
Quentin Tarantino, when he wasfilming Django, even though didn't
film at Oak Alley, ate at thatrestaurant every day. Jamie Foxx
would eat there, too.
(22:13):
Okay.
So it's just a place that hasa lot of that great Southern food
and cuisine. So they're thereto kind of embrace all of the history
around and kind of see it andappreciate it. But the things that
are so unique to a sugarplantation that you're not going
to see, like on a cottonplantation or a tobacco plantation,
are those big metal cauldronsand those grinding stones that you'll
(22:37):
see. And then, you know, Romanwill die early of tuberculosis. Then
the plantation goes to hisson, and then it's sold in 1925 to
another family, the Stewardfamily. And then they run it for
a while. And then in the1960s, it's given to the Oak Alley
Heritage Society, and that'skind of who runs it today. So it's
(23:01):
one of those places that's runby a historical association, and
they, you know, they make surethat the stories are being told and
you can come and visit. Andit's definitely one of those places
that's trying to preservehistory and preserve all the stories
there. You can see some veryunique things about the house. You
cannot take video in the house.
Yeah, that was. That was abummer. I was kind of hoping you
(23:23):
could get some, but, I mean,just seeing the outside is amazing.
But you can see they have,like, ceiling to floor doors that
are windows. So this is howhot it gets in the South. They're
opening up these big doorwindows to get the airflow through.
They also have a thing calleda shoo fly, which looks like a big
wooden harp, basically cutout, that goes over the dining room
(23:45):
table, and it has a string toit where an enslaved, usually small
child will hide in a closetand pull it back and forth and it
waves over your dining roomtable to keep flies away. And so
a thing you have to deal withwithin the south. And so it's. They
have things like that that youcan see and learn about there. But
for me to visit Oak Alley,like I said, once you start to look
(24:08):
at. If you really focus onpictures of New Orleans and plantations
and Louisiana, you won't.You'll be surprised how many of those
are actually Oak Alley becauseof that 800 foot row of oaks that
hang over the alley leading upto the plantation house. It is a
picturesque view of what thatwould have looked like.
(24:30):
Well, and, and these, theseoak trees are just. I mean, they're
200 years old now. I mean,that's. I was pleasantly surprised
because your video B rollskills have gotten better over the
years and the footage you got,even just with like the simple camera
that we have was just. It'samazing. So, so if you're listening
to this, I encourage you guysto go. To go watch it. Yeah, it was,
(24:53):
it was just beautiful. And I'mlooking forward to whenever I can
actually get to get downthere. But I'm happy that you were
able to do it.
Yeah. And like I said, it's.It is the crown jewel of the sugar
plantation in history. Sugaris still a big crop in Louisiana.
You'll see sugarcane growingall over the place. I had some people
ask me on the video, that'snot sugarcane, that's bamboo. They
(25:18):
look very similar and sopeople will think it is bamboo. The
only way you will know thedifference between sugarcane and
bamboo is really not visually.You have to grab it. Bamboo is hollow.
Sugar cane will be heavy. It'sfilled with the juice. Okay. So that's
how you'll know when you lookat it. Because sugarcane can have
the green, it can have the tancan. It can have the same kind of
(25:39):
look as it's growing throughits lifestyle life cycle. But the
only way you're really goingto know is reach over and grab it
and know bamboo is hollow andstrong. Sugar cane is also pretty
strong, but it's going to beheavy because it has. It's filled
with that juice inside.
Yeah, well, no, that's,that's, that's pretty awesome. And
again, the links for locationsfor the video for any resources that
(26:03):
we talk about will be in thepodcast show notes or the video description.
Today, Oak Alley stands asboth a testament to architectural
beauty and the vital educationcenter. The Plantations Preservation
Trust ensures that visitorsnot only marvel at the stunning 28
(26:26):
columned mansion, but alsolearn about the complete history
of the site, including thelives that the enslaved who built
and maintained it. Whetheryou're a history enthusiast, architecture
lover, or simply seeking tounderstand this complex chapter of
American history, Oak AlleyPlantation offers an unforgettable
experience that brings thepast to life and of course, a beautiful
(26:49):
walk through oak trees thatyou will never forget. This has been
a walk with Historyproduction. Talk with History is
created and hosted by me,Scott Bennie. Episode researched
by Jennifer Bennie. Check outthe show notes for links and references
mentioned in this episode.Talk With History is supported by
(27:09):
ourfans@thehistoryroadtrip.com our eternal
thanks go out to thoseproviding funding to help keep us
going. Thank you to DougMcLiverty, Larry Myers, Patrick Bennie,
Gale Cooper, Kristy Coates,and Calvin Gifford. Make sure you
hit that follow button in thatpodcast player and we'll talk to
you next time.
Welcome to Talk with History.I'm your host Scott, here with my
wife and historian Jen.
Hello.
On this podcast, we give youinsights to our history Inspired
World Travels YouTube channelJourney and examine history through
deeper conversations with thecurious, the explorers and the history
lovers out there. Imaginewalking down a breathtaking 800 foot
(00:26):
alley of centuries oldsouthern live oaks, their massive
branches creating a naturalcathedral ceiling above you. These
majestic trees planted in theearly 1800s form a signature feature
of the world's most famousplantation, giving Oak Alley its
memorable name. The mansionthat anchors the property became
(00:49):
one of the crown jewels ofLouisiana's Sugar bowl, earning its
owner the nickname King ofSugar. But historians know that this
prosperity came at a terriblehuman cost. With over 220 enslaved
people working these groundsbetween 1836 and the Civil War. Movie
buffs might recognize OakAlley from Interview with the Vampire
where it served as Louiseplantation home. But beyond its Hollywood
(01:14):
connection, the site offersauthentic insights into antebellum
Louisiana, from the complexsugar production process to the daily
lives of both the plantationown and the enslaved workers. Let's
explore the history of OakAlley Plantation. All right, Jen,
(01:36):
now, before we jump intotalking about a place that you have
tried to visit numerous times,I do want to kind of say thank you
to our audience. So we areabout to hit 50,000 subscribers on
YouTube. And so for thoselistening, I do want to say thank
you to you guys because ourpodcast audience, that's been growing
(01:58):
over the years as well, westarted about a year after the YouTube
channel. But, you know, Iwould be remiss if I didn't say thank
you to what I think is a corepart of our audience, and that is
our listeners to this podcast,because you guys spend just a good
amount of time with us. And Idon't know about our listeners, but
I always consider myself afriend of any podcast host that I
(02:21):
listen to on my favoritepodcast. So I just wanted to say
thank you to our listeners.Thank you to our YouTube subscribers.
As we get closer to hittingthat, that, that fun 50k mark, this
is just an opportune time forus to say thanks.
Yeah, this is pretty amazing.You said what? A year ago we were
at 10,000.
Two years ago we were about tocross 10,000.
(02:42):
And just how exponentiallywe've grown. It's all because of
you, and it's all because ofour community and our interaction
and how you gu resonated withthe topics and the questions you
ask and more you want to knowand the things we go out and see.
So thank you so much for justbeing such an interactive part of
our community. Again, leavecomments, Let us know what you're
(03:03):
interested in, what you liked,what you learned, something else
that you're curious about.And, you know, give us those five
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helps people to find us, ithelps the algorithm to push us to
the top and all those things.So we just really appreciate our
community so much and we, wejust love all of you. So thank you.
Yeah, thank you so much. Allright, Jen, So Oak Alley Plantation.
(03:30):
I only ever knew it for thevery first time because you loved
Interview with a Vampire. Youwere a massive Brad Pit fan.
A massive Brad Pit fan. And Ithink this movie was part of that
love of Brad Pit because heacts so well in this because it's
Interview with the Vampire,right? And he's the one who's being
interviewed in the, in the movie.
(03:52):
Well, and, and the movieitself setting, which is at the plantation,
right? That's. That's hishome. It, it's, it completely encapsulates
the vibe they're going for inthe movie with the oak trees and
the plant. It's just beautifuland it just sets the mood. So it
was kind of the perfecthistoric plantation, the historic
home for a movie like that.
(04:13):
It was because he introduceshimself as Creole. Right. And so
that place is what you wouldthink of as a Creole plantation.
Right. Anne Rice is from NewOrleans, so she's writing about the
people of New Orleans or NewOrleans and Nalans, however you want
to say it. People willcritique my pronunciation, but Louis
is the owner of thisplantation. Now. This plantation,
(04:36):
Oak Alley, is like the jewelin the crown of the sugar plantation
world. He wouldn't, at his agethat he's like in his 20s, he wouldn't
own this plantation unless hehad inherited it from a family member,
which is, that's how this,this plantation is given from the
king of sugar who owns allthese plantations. Amay. He's the
(04:59):
one who introduces sugar tothe New Orleans area. He gives it
to his brother in law. Sothat's kind of how the brother in
law even gets this jewel inthe crown. Plantation is because
it's, it's in the family.Louis would have to have had some
kind of connection like that.
And Louis, Brad's character.
And so Creole. I always haveto explain what Creole means too.
(05:21):
So Creole is this it. It. Theword means colony. It's a loose way
to say colony. It means anyonewho's born in that new colony of
New Orleans Louisiana. And youcan come from any background that
is mixing with the French, theSpanish, the African, and the Native
American. So it's fourcultures that are basically being
(05:44):
slammed together. And what iscoming out of that is the Creole
culture, because they're allcoming together. They're all kind
of melting together and makingthis Creole culture. So that's what
people consider themselvesCreole. And so it is the perfect
setting for this Creole lifestyle.
Now, one of the things that Iactually learned when I think you
(06:04):
were. I don't remember if itmade it into the video or not. One
of the things that you saidthat I believe you learned and you
were explaining to me was thedifference between Creole and. And
Cajun. So I thought that wasactually really interesting.
So people will get themconfused sometimes and kind of use
them interchangeably. They'renot. The Cajun culture is Canadian,
so it's French Canadians, andthey were loyalists during the war,
(06:26):
and they're basically kickedout of Canada. And so they have to
come down to New Orleans tokind of reset up shop.
So that. So that's reallywhere that kind of the French vibe
and that kind of part of thatNew Orleans and Southern Louisiana
culture, that piece of it,that French piece of it comes from
the Cajun side.
Yes.
(06:46):
And the Creole was kind of allthe other melting pot.
It's a melting pot because ifyou think of New Orleans, we visited
there and you saw our video.If you saw our video on that, how
they have the four flags, andit kind of was under French rule,
then it's under Spanish rule,then it goes back to French rule
for a couple years, then theAmericans buy it. So it's kind of
like it's having all of thesecultures mixed. Big enslavement there.
(07:08):
All these Africans are there,plus you, you've came. You've come
there, and the first peoplesare already there. Right. The Cherokees,
the different American Indiansare already there. So it's those
four cultures that arebasically melting together to create
the Creole culture. Cajun arethose French Canadians that get kicked
out of Canada. And that's whyyou can still speak Cajun French,
(07:29):
because it's a different typeof French. Think of Montreal people
coming down from Canada, andthey're known for their spicy food.
They're known for that type ofculture. So the two separate things,
it's not the same. But if youdon't know the difference, people
kind of use them interchangeably.
Yeah, I just. I just thoughtthat was really interesting because
I had always kind ofassociated the two together. Again,
(07:51):
I Just didn't really know anybetter. So tell us a little bit about
Oak Alley and the history.And, you know, he said it was the
crown jewel of the kind ofthat sugar bowl that is southern
New Orleans where they weregrowing all this sugar cane and stuff
like that. It's about, what,30 minutes northwest of New Orleans
or so.
Well, to drive it was about anhour. So we have a funny story about
(08:14):
Oak Alley. I felt like theuniverse did not want me to see it,
right? I felt like there wassomething keeping me away from Oak
Alley Plantation because I hadgone there multiple times, right,
for my 40th birthday, gone toNew Orleans, had my girlfriends come
in. My birthday's in December.It snowed like crazy in New Orleans
(08:35):
in December. And Oak Alley wascovered in snow. And we drove out
there because, I'll be honestwith you, New Orleans snow and Pennsylvania
snow are two separate things.And I was fine driving from New Orleans
to Oak Alley, which took aboutan hour. And they closed it when
I got there. And the lady hadsaid, well, we don't have anyone
(08:56):
here who can show youanything. And I was like, I can tell
you how a sugar plantationworks. So they let me. They didn't
open the main house, but theylet me walk around. They let me go
to the gift shop. It's knownfor its big gift shop and restaurant
there.
So you got to see it in the snow.
I got to see it in the snow.And then I always. And I had told
you, and you were like, oh,we'll make a point to go back someday.
And we just never made it. SoI. I'm 47 now, so I haven't seen
(09:19):
it for seven years. And nowthat I am the historian on American
Cruise Line, we stopped thereas part of one of our excursions
and I got to go and see it.Yes. New, this area of Louisiana,
I would say from New Orleansup to Baton Rouge, a little bit farther
up, has the climate for sugar.And you need almost a 12 year growing
(09:43):
cycle to grow sugar cane.That's why it's very popular in the
West Indies. That's why it'svery popular in Hawaii, some areas
in Florida, because you haveto have this hot, tropical, subtropical
climate. It needs to have thishumidity, it needs to have this just
this hot growing cycle forsugar cane to grow. And along the
(10:03):
Mississippi, where you get theflooding in the Delta and you get
that soil that's rich innutrients, was a great place to grow
sugarcane. Now Abay is the manwho introduced the sugar cane to
the area. He his plantationsare what are today the New Orleans
Zoo and Tulane and downtownNew Orleans. Like he owned all of
(10:25):
that.
So was he like one of theoriginal kind of sugar cane planters,
you know, plantation owners?
Yes, he brought a free man ofcolor from the South Indies and he
showed him how to do it. Okay.Basically you're, you're, they use
kind of what they call a caneho method where they dug out a big
square and they would put twosugar cane plants in the square and
(10:45):
cover them in manure and theywould do tons of those squares a
day. And you would let thesugar cane grow for about five, five
months and it would get highover your head and then you'd have
to harvest the sugar cane,these huge stocks of sugar cane.
And you immediately have tocrush sugar cane so to get the juice
(11:05):
out of it. And if you don'tcrush it right away, it can spoil.
So you, that's why this, thisprocess is so labor intensive. And
then we'll get to like afteryou juice it, what do you do with
that juice? But Oak Alley,because of its proximity right there
in New Orleans, because a Mayhad owned it, he gifts it to his
brother in law, Roman. TheRoman family. So Jacques Roman will
(11:31):
the, is the man who will plantthe oak trees. 800ft of live oak.
And live oak is the name ofthe oak tree. It's not their live
oaks. Live oak is the name ofthe oak tree. So that's, he plants
those trees in 1830. And sowith not, you know, it's like planting
something that you don't knowwhat it's eventually going to be.
(11:53):
You're not going to see it inyour lifetime. The house is built
in 1836, completed 1839. Thisis all enslaved labor that is doing
this. So building that housewas all enslaved labor. They have
these pillars around theplantation, the main house, the big
house and all the bricks thatwere laid. Everything was done within
enslaved labor.
(12:14):
And it's a beautiful home. Soobviously we've, we've made a video
from there. So that video islive on the YouTube channel and I'll
link to it and I'll. And forthose watching this particular video
podcast, I'll put some, someof the, the B roll and the video
shots that you got. But it isa beautiful, I mean it is a gorgeous
plantation home.
Oh yeah, it's. And it's fromInterview with a Vampire. So if you
(12:36):
remember, Brad Pitt will ridedown the main drag with the live
oaks around him and it's rightalong the Mississippi River. So you
see that in the movie. The,that's how, that's why these plantation
houses are right along theMississippi for the commerce, for
the logistics. You can get thebarrels of sugar right onto the ships,
(12:56):
take them right down to NewOrleans main port and get them out
and sell your product.
Now, one of the things thatyou were talking about in the video
was, you'll see in our video,there's kind of like an embankment,
basically like a little hillbetween the plantation and the river.
Now, same thing you see in themovie, because the movie was made
in 1994 or was released in1994. But you said that in the 1800s
(13:18):
when they were doing thesugarcane, that wasn't there. No,
which makes sense, becausepart of what you mentioned in the
video was what they relied onwas when the, when the river would
flood. That's what made thatsoil and that, that kind of farmland,
the plantation land, so fertile.
Yes. So you need the floodingof the Mississippi, and you'd be
(13:38):
able to see the main housefrom the river. They have a widow's
walk on the top of the mainhouse as well, which means you could
go up there and see the shipscoming in and all the ships that
are bringing, your productsare bringing.
So is that like when, Sorry,just like a quick, like, random aside
here. You know, in MaryPoppins, like when the admiral's,
like, shooting his cannon fromthe top of his house. Is that what
(13:59):
that is? That's the widow'swalk. Okay. I, I, I always wondered
that as a kid, and I was justlike, just thought that was a weird
English thing.
So they call it that becauseit would be the widows watching for
their men's ships to come in.And so you see widows walks on any
port town, especially thehouses that are close to ports and
the docks.
I, I had no idea. Sohopefully. Hey, comment if you didn't
(14:22):
know that either, because I,I'm wearing a shirt that says history
buff on it. But I am not, I amnot the history nerd here. Okay,
continue. Sorry.
So, because the house is sofar back from the river, the widow's
walk is useful. Watching theships come in and we were on a riverboat.
That's kind of the types ofboats that would be used at that
time, because we talk again.Riverboats have low drafts. And you're
(14:43):
using the Mississippi river,which it's deepest In New Orleans,
200ft. But as you move up theMississippi, it' get shallower and
shallower. And one of thethings about the Mississippi, you
have to worry about too, issandbars. So you really want a shallow
draft, and that's. These riverboats have that kind of shallow draft.
So you're watching for thoseships. But yeah, the house is built
a little higher, and that'sbecause it would flood all around
(15:05):
it and the house would befine. Plus, I also have to stress
to people, plantation ownersreally didn't live in these homes.
They would come out and visitand make sure their farm is being
taken care of, overseers andthings like that. But these rich,
rich sugar people are livingin New Orleans. They're living in
(15:26):
the mansions in New Orleans.
So I didn't. So did they havelike, essentially like a manager
running it?
Yes, they have an overseerwho's overseeing everything. And
so, I mean, they'll come outevery now and then and visit their
farm home. They'll go to theircountry home. But these are the people
who are living in those hugemansions in New Orleans, having the
huge parties in New Orleans,doing the Mardi Gras. Right. Where
(15:47):
do they get the money to havethis lavish lifestyle? It's their
farms out in the country. Andsugar is the main cash crop out of
Louisiana. So again, when yougo to Oak Alley, you have to remember
you're going to see a lot ofthese cauldrons, and there's going
to be cauldrons all over theplace. And that's very unique to
(16:08):
a sugar plantation becauselike I said, once the sugar cane
is. Is cut and they've crushedthe sugar cane to get the juice out,
and you'll see grinding stonesaround. The juice is immediately
put in cauldrons, and thejuice is a very brown color. And
it's cooked over and overagain probably about eight, nine
(16:29):
times. And it takes a lot oftime, takes a lot of stirring. It
takes a lot of attention.People get specialized in this field.
Now, the byproducts of this,you will know molasses and rum, right?
So when you think of molassesand rum, those are byproducts of
sugar. And so rum is comingout of New Orleans, molasses is coming
(16:49):
out of New Orleans. Because asyou cook off that sediment that brown
to get to a clearer andclearer juice color, you will eventually
put. You'll lighten the juicewith lime juice. You'll put that
in to cool it down. You'll putit in big clay jars and allow that
to sit is for it to evaporate.And then they put a hole in the bottom
of the clay jars. And thesugar that's now Dr. Will come out
(17:13):
as Granulated sugar.
I don't think I realized thatsugar cane was giving them that many
products.
Yes.
Whether it's rum or molassesmakes sense. Right. I just always
just kind of assume sugar.Where sugar came.
Well, the thing is too, like,it's easier to transport rum and
molasses when it comes to,like putting things in barrels and
getting it to New Orleans andthen getting it out to the east coast,
(17:35):
west coast into, you know,England. Like all the trading rum
and molasses are going tohandle a lot easier on a ship than
the white sugar, the whitegold. Right. And that's why it's
so valuable to get that and toget to that stage of sugar making.
But the lifestyle of this isso difficult. Sugar plantation labor.
(17:57):
They say the lifestyle of anenslaved would be about seven to
10 years during this becauseof. It's a, it is a 12 month process.
It is so labor intensive. Whenthey're in the harvest time and they're
into the juice, the juicejuicing time, it's 12 hours on, 12
hours off. And you have twoshifts because it takes 24 hours
to boil this juice. Like Isaid, it can't be left. It can't
(18:20):
be left. You have to keepboiling it until.
It'S a continuous process.
It's a continuous process. Andthat grinding is very dangerous.
They have these grindingmachines and they would not. It would.
It would be very common to seea enslaved men or women without a
hand or without an arm or asugar plant.
Because you're getting caughtin there because.
(18:40):
You'Re so tired and be doingit over and over and your hand gets
caught, your arm gets caughtand it would, they, they would just
chop it off. So it's one ofthose, like, when you think about
what it takes for this kind ofcrop, you really have to talk about
the enslaved that lived at OakAlley. They do a very good job of
telling that story. They havesix enslaved cabins there behind
(19:01):
the main house. And they tell,they have some of the names listed
that historians have found,which I think is very important to,
to say their names and to givethem agency in their stories. But
they talk more about the houseslaves that would have lived there.
Because if you're living closeto the main house, you're more than
(19:22):
likely working in the mainhouse. If you're working in the plantation,
the Acres and Acresplantation, you're not coming back
to the main house every day.There's no reason for you to come
back.
So, so they'd have placeswhere they lived, like out on the
land.
Your enslaved quarters wouldbe out on the land. So the reason
why they have these six slavequarters there is to tell, to give
(19:42):
them their story close towhere people are visiting and tourists
can see. And that way you'regetting that story, even though it's
not authentically where thosehouses would be. And that's why they're
all reconstructed. But theyhave a lot of artifacts in there
to kind of tell their story.
Yeah. And you said that theyactually did a pretty good job of.
Of balancing. Right. Not goingtoo heavy and too dark, but tell
(20:04):
them, like, the true lifestory. Like, hey, let's. We're not
going to shy away from this.Right. So that. And you said. But
then at the same time. Right.Not far off from where the slave
quarters were, there was likea gift shop where you could get mint
juleps.
Yeah.
Whereas I think you hadmentioned. I think after. It didn't
come up in the video, but oneof the other plantations not far
away leans a lot heavier intowhat the enslaved life was like and
(20:28):
stuff like that. But you saidthat as far as Oak Alley went, they
did a good job of kind ofbalancing everything with the real
history. Not shying away fromthat, but also allowing people to
kind of just enjoy the kind ofthe beauty of the grounds today.
Yeah. So they. Because it'ssuch an iconic place in Louisiana
history, you see pictures ofOak Alley everywhere. Like, it's
(20:48):
been an interview with a vampire.
It's. It's.
It's Brad Pitt's house. Thisfilming of him on the front porch,
you know, like I said, goingdown the main drag. Hush, Hush, Sweet
Charlotte was filmed there.It's a movie from the 50s. The long
hard Summer was filmed there.That's a movie from the 80s.
The.
It's been in a lot of TVshows. So they do a good job of balancing
what that Greek revivalplantation home would look like with
(21:11):
the beautiful oaks. Buttelling the story of the enslaved
Whitney plantation, which isclose by, tells the enslaved story.
It just focuses on their storyand their agency, which is also important.
Yeah.
But you have to realizethere's two conflicting lifestyles
that are on this sameplantation. There's the white owners,
(21:32):
and then there's the enslavedpeople, the African American enslaved
people. And both of theirstories are important, and both of
the stories are relevant, butOak Alley is trying to balance that
a little bit. Where Whitneyis, is focusing on one side, and
there's no right or wrongthere because all the stories need
to be told. Oak Alley does areally good job though, of embracing
(21:53):
this part of history. Andthat's why they have the gift shops
and they have a really greatrestaurant there. So if you want
to talk about Creole food orCajun food and then film history,
Quentin Tarantino, when he wasfilming Django, even though didn't
film at Oak Alley, ate at thatrestaurant every day. Jamie Foxx
would eat there, too.
(22:13):
Okay.
So it's just a place that hasa lot of that great Southern food
and cuisine. So they're thereto kind of embrace all of the history
around and kind of see it andappreciate it. But the things that
are so unique to a sugarplantation that you're not going
to see, like on a cottonplantation or a tobacco plantation,
are those big metal cauldronsand those grinding stones that you'll
(22:37):
see. And then, you know, Romanwill die early of tuberculosis. Then
the plantation goes to hisson, and then it's sold in 1925 to
another family, the Stewardfamily. And then they run it for
a while. And then in the1960s, it's given to the Oak Alley
Heritage Society, and that'skind of who runs it today. So it's
(23:01):
one of those places that's runby a historical association, and
they, you know, they make surethat the stories are being told and
you can come and visit. Andit's definitely one of those places
that's trying to preservehistory and preserve all the stories
there. You can see some veryunique things about the house. You
cannot take video in the house.
Yeah, that was. That was abummer. I was kind of hoping you
(23:23):
could get some, but, I mean,just seeing the outside is amazing.
But you can see they have,like, ceiling to floor doors that
are windows. So this is howhot it gets in the South. They're
opening up these big doorwindows to get the airflow through.
They also have a thing calleda shoo fly, which looks like a big
wooden harp, basically cutout, that goes over the dining room
(23:45):
table, and it has a string toit where an enslaved, usually small
child will hide in a closetand pull it back and forth and it
waves over your dining roomtable to keep flies away. And so
a thing you have to deal withwithin the south. And so it's. They
have things like that that youcan see and learn about there. But
for me to visit Oak Alley,like I said, once you start to look
(24:08):
at. If you really focus onpictures of New Orleans and plantations
and Louisiana, you won't.You'll be surprised how many of those
are actually Oak Alley becauseof that 800 foot row of oaks that
hang over the alley leading upto the plantation house. It is a
picturesque view of what thatwould have looked like.
(24:30):
Well, and, and these, theseoak trees are just. I mean, they're
200 years old now. I mean,that's. I was pleasantly surprised
because your video B rollskills have gotten better over the
years and the footage you got,even just with like the simple camera
that we have was just. It'samazing. So, so if you're listening
to this, I encourage you guysto go. To go watch it. Yeah, it was,
(24:53):
it was just beautiful. And I'mlooking forward to whenever I can
actually get to get downthere. But I'm happy that you were
able to do it.
Yeah. And like I said, it's.It is the crown jewel of the sugar
plantation in history. Sugaris still a big crop in Louisiana.
You'll see sugarcane growingall over the place. I had some people
ask me on the video, that'snot sugarcane, that's bamboo. They
(25:18):
look very similar and sopeople will think it is bamboo. The
only way you will know thedifference between sugarcane and
bamboo is really not visually.You have to grab it. Bamboo is hollow.
Sugar cane will be heavy. It'sfilled with the juice. Okay. So that's
how you'll know when you lookat it. Because sugarcane can have
the green, it can have the tancan. It can have the same kind of
(25:39):
look as it's growing throughits lifestyle life cycle. But the
only way you're really goingto know is reach over and grab it
and know bamboo is hollow andstrong. Sugar cane is also pretty
strong, but it's going to beheavy because it has. It's filled
with that juice inside.
Yeah, well, no, that's,that's, that's pretty awesome. And
again, the links for locationsfor the video for any resources that
(26:03):
we talk about will be in thepodcast show notes or the video description.
Today, Oak Alley stands asboth a testament to architectural
beauty and the vital educationcenter. The Plantations Preservation
Trust ensures that visitorsnot only marvel at the stunning 28
(26:26):
columned mansion, but alsolearn about the complete history
of the site, including thelives that the enslaved who built
and maintained it. Whetheryou're a history enthusiast, architecture
lover, or simply seeking tounderstand this complex chapter of
American history, Oak AlleyPlantation offers an unforgettable
experience that brings thepast to life and of course, a beautiful
(26:49):
walk through oak trees thatyou will never forget. This has been
a walk with Historyproduction. Talk with History is
created and hosted by me,Scott Bennie. Episode researched
by Jennifer Bennie. Check outthe show notes for links and references
mentioned in this episode.Talk With History is supported by
(27:09):
ourfans@thehistoryroadtrip.com our eternal
thanks go out to thoseproviding funding to help keep us
going. Thank you to DougMcLiverty, Larry Myers, Patrick Bennie,
Gale Cooper, Kristy Coates,and Calvin Gifford. Make sure you
hit that follow button in thatpodcast player and we'll talk to
you next time.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.