September 29, 2025 • 35 mins
We're diving deep into the ocean of cinematic history to chat about "Jaws," the movie that made us all think twice before taking a dip in the water. Released back in '75, this flick wasn't just a shark tale; it flipped the script on summer blockbusters and gave us a cultural phenomenon that still resonates today. So, how did a film about a great white shark leave such a massive mark? We’ll explore the wild making of "Jaws," from its roots as a best-selling novel to the behind-the-scenes drama that almost sank the whole production.
Grab your life jackets and join us as we swim through the waves of history, fun facts, and the legacy of this iconic film!
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(00:25):
You're gonna need a bigger boat.
Today we're venturing into theocean depths of cinematic history
to explore the impact andlegacy of a film that changed the
way we see the water.
Steven Spielberg's jaws.
(00:46):
Released in 1975, Jaws wasn'tjust a movie.
It was a cultural phenomenonthat sparked a new era in filmmaking
and forever altered the summerblockbuster landscape.
But how did a film about agreat white shark manage to grip
audiences so tightly and leavea permanent mark on both the film
industry and popular culture?
(01:08):
In this episode, we'll unravelthe fascinating history behind the
making of Jaws, from itsorigins as a best selling novel by
Peter Benchley to the nailbiting challenges faced during its
production.
We'll also explore some of thetrue life historical events that
they reference right here inthis movie.
So grab your life jackets andjoin us as we dive into the thrilling
(01:28):
history of Jaws, a film thattook a bite out of cinematic history.
Welcome to Talk with History.
I am your host, Scott, herewith my wife and historian Jen.
Hello.
Today's podcast is part of aseries we call Watch with History.
The Watch With History serieswill focus on your favorite historical
(01:51):
films, where Jen and I willreview the Hollywood historic classics
we all know and love, whilealso discussing the history behind
these films with someinteresting facts.
We hope you enjoy this Watchwith History.
Three, two, one.
Here we go.
All right, Jen, so you lovethis movie.
(02:14):
It scares me to death and Ilove it.
It scares you to death, right?
I don't know if it's on thesame level as, like, John Wayne movies
and stuff, but it's up therefor you because you're, I mean, you're
a history buff, right?
You're a history buff, moviebuff, and you like this one for numerous
reasons.
Talk to us briefly about kindof where this movie kind of came
from, a little bit of thehistory behind it.
(02:34):
And then there are somehistorical events they talk about
throughout Jaws that some ofthe characters kind of draw their
inspiration from.
So let's, let's talk a littlebit about that and then we'll just
kind of get right into it.
So Jaws is so interesting,this movie.
It's like a perfect, perfect storm.
(02:56):
Things came together so well.
So Peter Begley wrote thisbook and didn't even name it, didn't
even name it until it wentinto printing.
I didn't know that.
It was like 30 minutes before printing.
They're like, we need a good name.
We need a quick name.
We need a.
A name that just, it juststicks with you.
And they just Like Jaws.
And so that's.
(03:16):
And, and when you think about.
I don't even picture anythingelse when I think of Jaws now besides
this movie.
Yeah, right.
And so it was so masterful.
Just that one word.
So Peter Betchley grew up onLong island.
And on Long island there wasthis notorious fisherman named Frank
Mundus.
(03:37):
And Frank Mundus, in 1964, hehad caught a great white shark off
of Montauk, New York.
And it was £4,500.
And it was just like this hugeshark that's massive and.
Yeah, right.
And Mundus, he had like thisPersona about him.
He would wear this shirt thatsaid monster fishing.
(03:59):
He would take people out shark fishing.
He's kind of loosely.
Who Quint is kind of based.
So kind of just like thissalty sailor.
Yes.
You know, just like kind ofgritty personality.
Just a gritty personality.
He caught this shark by harpoon.
So when we talked a littlebit, if you listen to our, our episode
about whaling and harpooning,what that is, that's how he caught
(04:21):
the shark.
Now in 1980, after Jaws comesout, he is going to.
He has the.
The title of catching thebiggest shark with just a line in
reel.
And that was off of Blockisland, which will be another video
and.
And podcast, which is a littleisland off of Rhode island, but in
(04:43):
that three island range of itsBlock Island, Martha's Vineyard and
Nantucket, which are all offthe coast of Long island, which is
where the book takes place,off of Long Island.
And this is where this, thisshark was caught.
Okay.
And that was 3, 500 pounds.
And again, line and reel.
So he catches 4,500 poundswith the harpoon.
3,500 rod and reel.
(05:04):
He has this whole Persona.
He wears the earring.
He's very like grandiose aboutwhat he talks about.
And so Quince is kind of basedoff him.
Peter Betchley was veryinspired by him when he writes Jaws.
And so.
But if you think about Jaws, Ialways laugh.
Like, the biggest shark hecaught is 4, 500.
How big is jaw supposed to be?
(05:25):
If you watch the movie, he'ssupposed to be three tons.
What's six, six thousand, sixthousand pounds?
Like, it's just right.
So he writes it in 1974, agreat white shark off of a small
town in Long Island.
So it's not supposed to reallybe an island like in the movie.
(05:46):
It's not supposed to beMartha's Vineyard.
And then, you know, he frequently.
He'd been fascinated with sharks.
He'd been to Nantucket many times.
But he writes this basicallybased on Frank Mundus.
And the book is a huge success.
I have not read it.
I tried to read the first page.
It does open up with theskinny dipper scene.
(06:09):
Okay.
But it talks to you from theshark's point of view.
And it freaked me out so muchthat I shut the book and threw it.
And I've never read it after that.
So, yeah, it's.
He's very well written.
I didn't realize that that'show the book was written.
And so almost when StevenSpielberg pivots.
And you'll talk more aboutthis when things start to go wrong
(06:29):
and he films it from theshark's point of view, that's in
more in line with what the book.
Oh, how.
How interesting Peter be.
When he writes Jaws, hedoesn't mention the really two big
historic things that arementioned in Jaws.
He doesn't write about the USSIndianapolis, and he doesn't write
about the shark attacks off ofthe New Jersey shore.
(06:52):
They're both mentioned in themovie, though.
Now, Quint in the book is a Marine.
So I did some research.
Were there Marines on the USS Indianapolis?
And when we talk about thehistory of the Indianapolis, I will
let you know if that fits.
But they pick Martha'sVineyard for the filming because
(07:15):
Spielberg could kind of justbe all encompassed there.
They can kind of geteverything done.
And it probably fit prettywell for what he's going with in
the movie.
He's looking to do this crazyevent, right?
Which is what Spielberg lovesto do.
Like this almost extra slashparanormal event, right?
This massive shark.
Or if it's E.T.
(07:35):
this alien.
Right.
If it's in Close Encounters ofthe Third Kind, it's literally aliens,
right?
Like, he loves these, these.
These larger than lifeunrealistic events that he pulls
into reality.
And I like that he kind oflikes to leave you isolated with
them.
Yeah, right.
And that's kind of whathappens with three.
These three men.
I think if it was on themainland of, you know, it would be
(07:57):
more people involved, but theytry to kind of isolate you.
So it really is Martha'sVineyard, then these three men, one
who's afraid of water,fighting this shark.
So it really does isolate youwith this man versus man story, man
versus beast story.
And so he does that very.
He's the storytelling.
So.
So a couple of interestingfacts about Steven Spielberg.
(08:20):
And I think this was before hedirected Jaws, because after he directed
Jaws, and we all know ifyou're watching this, you know, movie
was a massive Success, and hewas catapulted to stardom.
But he actually directed thepilot episode of the TV show Columbo.
Columbo.
He was 20 years old and he.
(08:41):
So he actually directed thepilot episode to the.
To the famous detective show Columbo.
I just thought that was sointeresting that he's like.
Like the very first one.
And then also, Spielbergalways wanted to direct a James Bond
movie.
And so as a young filmmaker inthe 1970s, he wanted to direct, make
this a James Bond movie.
(09:01):
But he had unsuccessfullypitched ideas to the studio that
owned, you know, those, those rights.
But in Jaws, he kind of addsthis nod to James Bond when he.
When Richard Dreyfuss'scharacter cuts the shark open and
he pulls out the Louisianalicense plate, which you have bought
a copy of.
It's sitting in our.
(09:22):
In our studio in our study area.
The three familiar digits atthe beginning of that license plate
is 007.
Is 0,07.
Yeah.
So that was because he hadalways wanted to direct a James Bond
movie.
Yeah.
And we talk a lot about thisif you don't.
Comes from movie history.
His great grandfather was aprop master for Paramount Studios,
(09:43):
and he worked every episode of bonanza.
He did 10 Commandments, RearWindow, Some Like It Hot.
And so the prop, I will followa prop master who talked about that
prop that Steven Spielbergwanted, this license plate that said
007 Louisiana.
And so I bought the propbecause it's supposed to say Sportsman's
Paradise.
(10:04):
That's what the real licenseplate says there, says Sports Men's
Paradise.
And that's what props do, justmake themselves just a little bit
different.
And it's super neat, and youcan buy that and have it.
Martha's Vineyard.
What's interesting aboutMartha's Vineyard, it's kind of shaped
like a shark fin.
It was discovered in 1602.
(10:25):
Of course, there wereindigenous people there, but the
English explorer BartholomewGosnold discovered it and named it
for his daughter Martha, who'snamed after his mother in law who
funded his expedition.
So is it his mother in law orhis daughter?
No one's sure.
But the truth is Martha nevervisited Martha's Vineyard.
(10:45):
Oh, really?
So he named it for them andthey never came there.
Also, he saw a lot of wildgrapes growing, which is where it
gets the vineyard name.
But there is no actualvineyard in Martha's Vineyard, so
it's named for a person whonever visited.
And there's no real vineyardin Martha's Vineyard.
So it's kind of funny when youtalk about that.
Very, very touristy.
(11:07):
So even when Spielberg'sfilming this at the time today year
round populations about 20,000when I was there and daily it peaks
to 200,000 people.
That's wild.
And it's interesting becausethis rise of people coming to visit
came because of missionaries.
(11:29):
And they used to come outthere around 1835.
They would do these kind oftense and prophesy, you know, not
prophesies but you know, havethese campground meetings, these
Methodist meetings.
And so it became like a yearlyretreat where these Methodists would
come to Martha's Vineyard andcamp out.
They kind of started thetrend, started.
The trend where people comefor the summer.
(11:50):
So that's where Martha'sVineyard got its tourist destination
reputation.
Now going back to the, to themovie you had mentioned the kind
of two real events right now,one of them you said was the some
Jersey Shore shark attacks.
Was that like in the early 1900s?
Was that just kind of local legend?
(12:11):
So there were these.
It's amazing.
If you watch Shark Week you'realways going to hear about these
shark attacks because theyjust were so one off and they never
really happen again.
It happened in 1916, okay, sothat, that early July 1st through
the 12th, five attacks overtwo weeks resulting in four deaths
off the Jersey shore.
And it's interesting that itstarts south on the Jersey shore
(12:36):
and works its way up.
Now when we talk about LongIsland, Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket,
it's not far.
Great whites migrate all of this.
And if you follow great whitesnow you see North Carolina, they're
off the coast.
Like this is, this is wheregreat whites really do migrate off
the co.
The Atlantic coast here.
So July 1, it attacks aperson, 23 year old swimming, it
(13:02):
just, it really just takes achunk out of them and they bleed
out.
Then up the July 6, justfurther up the shore again, someone
else is swimming, bit theabdomen, severe, severed their legs
and someone just thought itwas like a red canoe had flipped
over.
And then on July 12, I meanthis is the craziest one is it swims
(13:24):
up a waterway and attacks an11 year old boy and kills him.
And then someone tries torescue him, jumps in the water and
he's also killed a 24 yearold, tries to kill him.
So that, so that's like rightin line with what how the book and
then what the movie portrays,right when the shark swims up the
(13:44):
little waterway, right andswims by the boy and the boy's traumatized
and all that stuff.
And it kind of also goes inLine with this whole rogue.
Right.
This is what they're saying isthat this.
This great white is rogue andhunting on its own.
Yeah.
He's essentially, like, foundhis feeding ground and he's not going
to leave.
They never caught that greatwhite shark.
(14:05):
There is still controversy.
Shark Week will always talkabout this.
Was it the same shark?
Was it a bull shark?
Was it a great white shark?
It's listed in the nationalregistry of shark attacks as a great
white attack.
And all four of them are four victims.
There was a fifth boy who was attacked.
(14:26):
He survived.
Wow.
So.
But, yeah, and it neverhappened again.
Yeah.
So.
So that's.
And I don't think they talkdirectly about the Jersey shore in
the movie, so.
No, in the movie they do.
They do.
Remember, the mayor will askHopper, who's the zoologist who studies
sharks.
Oh, yeah.
Has this ever happened before?
And he will say in the 1900soff of Jersey Shore.
(14:48):
He makes a quick comment about it.
Richard Dreyfus's character.
Richard Dreyfuss's character.
It's not in the book.
It's just mentioned quickly inthe movie.
But that's what he's talking about.
Now, the USS Indianapolis,that I think, like the great monologue
that Quinton gives to thethree men as they're, like, waiting
for the shark to come when.
(15:09):
They'Re drinking on the boatat night.
They're bored.
Right.
Sailor life.
Getting on each other's nerves.
Getting on each other's nerves.
I appreciate these three menwho represent this class differences
here.
There's definitely, you know,different backgrounds, but these
men all want the same thingand all hunting the same thing.
And they can all appreciatewhere one's lacking, where the other
(15:32):
one has a different expertise.
And so Quint is talking aboutsurviving the USS Indianapolis.
And so the USS Indianapoliswas a.
Was a cruiser during World WarII that played a critical role in
delivering the atomic bomb onJuly 30, 1945.
She had delivered thecomponents to Tinian island for the
(15:55):
first bomb for.
For Little Boy.
And.
And it was later sunk by aJapanese submarine.
It resulted in the greatestsingle loss of life at sea in the
history of the U.S. navy.
Now, is it.
Is it true that essentially,and I think Quint mentions this,
is that, like, their missionwas so secret that nobody knew that
they were doing this?
Nobody knew where they were.
(16:16):
They were kind of like almost radio.
Semi.
Radio silent.
So when they got hit by thisJapanese submarine and the ship started
sinking, nobody knew to golook for them?
Yes, I think it's a Little bit.
I looked more into it.
It was a little bit no oneknew to go look for them, but they
didn't know that they weresupposed to be ported six days later
and a couple of days later andthat person also missed it.
(16:39):
But you can think it's the endof World War II and ships are coming
and going so fast that they didn't.
Didn't put two and two together.
But yeah.
So early, early in the morning.
Like I'm talking 12:15am OnJuly 30, they were torpedoed by a
Japanese submarine and theship sank in 12 minutes.
Wow.
And 1200 crewmen were on board.
(17:01):
300 went down with the ship,but the remaining 900 went into the
water.
And they're going to face,like you said, days of exposure,
dehydration, salt water poisoning.
But when Quint talks about isthe shark attack.
Yeah, Right.
And so they're stranded outthere with all of these sharks that
basically just feed off ofthem for four days and men will swim
(17:27):
away.
And they don't really know howmany people were actually killed
by the sharks or how many justsuccumb to the elements.
But they say a few dozen to 150.
But they were out there forfour days.
Four days, no water.
Four days in the sun.
And that is such a classicscene in the movie Jaws, because
his delivery of that story isjust amazing.
(17:47):
And I.
But you know, I'll let youguys kind of behind the scenes of
Walk with history here.
I watched Jaws for the firsttime just a couple weeks ago.
So I was sitting there rivetedby this.
Right.
And I think the boys hadwatched it with you like probably
six months ago because youwanted to show them.
Be like, now the beginning'sso scary.
And they weren't phased at all.
But, but his delivery of thatstory and, and them sitting there
(18:11):
in this tiny little cabin, youknow, and him reciting the story
and then not too long afterit, I think that's when the shark
first starts.
Yeah, you know, they, theyspot the shark again.
It's just amazing.
It's amazing.
And it's Robert Shaw.
Robert Shaw is a great actorat the time, but he's delivering
this monologue about the, theshark attack on the Indianapolis
and only 300 men will survive.
(18:34):
So when you talk about 900went into the water, only one third
survived.
He talks about a friend thathe kind of tries to shake awake and
he bobs up and down becausehe's been butt bitten in half.
Those were tiger sharks thatattacked them.
And I Want to let people know,four days later it was a PV1 Ventura
(18:55):
plane.
A young pilot flew by and sawthem in the water and they went out
and rescued them.
Now, I talked to you beforeabout Marines, right?
How many Marines were on board?
And could Quint have been aMarine on the USS Indianapolis?
There were 39 Marines on theUSS Indianapolis.
Wow.
Nine survived.
Oh, so he could have been oneof those.
(19:16):
So Quint could have been oneof those.
Oh, what a cool, like little tie.
Now did they write that in thebook or is that specifically for
the movie?
That's specifically for the movie.
I think the screenwriterswanted to tie in a real life shark
story.
I will say what Jaws did for alot of people was we.
(19:37):
First of all, it scared youout of the ocean, right?
Most people are scared todeath of going to the ocean.
Most people didn't know a lotabout sharks before Jaws.
Tiger shark, great white shark.
What like.
And so Hopper's character ofknowing all these different sharks,
I might have one of myfavorite lines from the movie, and
you can get this in, is whenthe fisherman catch the tiger shark.
(19:57):
And Harper's like, that's notthe shark.
And he goes.
Or he goes, what kind of sharkis this?
Look at this man eater.
And he goes, he's measuringhis mouth.
He goes, it's a tiger shark.
And the guy goes, what?
I love that part because they don't.
It's not like we know sharks today.
Today.
Yeah, there was no Shark Week.
This is Shark Week.
We know different types of sharks.
We're fascinated with it, right.
(20:18):
Tiger sharks are darker ontheir back.
You know, they're.
They're camouflaged by thesand, right?
And they really.
They are tropical sharks, right?
Hawaii.
The girl who had her arm bitoff, the surfer, that was a tiger
shark.
Great whites are cold watersharks, right?
Arctic shark, they just wantto stay in the cold water.
They're white, they're gray.
(20:39):
So they're in a different kindof environment than a tiger shark.
So that's just kind of interesting.
But when we talk about thefilming of Jaws, the opening, it's
(21:04):
become a synonymous Spielbergopening, it has.
Where it grabs you right away, it.
Grabs you right away.
And one of the things, andwe'll kind of mention a couple examples
that I think are pretty wellknown as far as like the mechanical
shark having all sorts of issues.
And so that's how he kind ofpivoted to this.
You can't see the shark, whichis actually scarier.
(21:24):
So one of the things that Ilooked up About Steven Spielberg
is he loves to do this kind ofmuch more practical in camera, no
digital trickery, especiallyback then, because you couldn't kind
of filming.
And so one of the most iconicscenes from Steven Spielberg's, arguably
his, one of his biggest moviesever is ET and so that scene where
(21:46):
you, you know, and it's, it'snow what Amblin is the production
company where they're ridingtheir bikes through the sky in front
of the moon.
That is all practically shot.
And I'll explain how I, Ilooked this up.
I said of all the iconicmoments and shots that Spielberg
has given us, the moment thatET And Elliott fly past the moon
was.
Everything was shot in camera.
(22:06):
So it took the effects team,Industrial Light and Magic weeks
of scouting to identify theright place for filming.
They use maps and astrologicalcharts to find the perfect time that
a full moon would sit lowamong the trees in that spot.
So now Elliot and ET Werescale models, but the rest is all,
is all shot in camera.
So they actually found likethey, they didn't have to do that.
(22:30):
Right.
But they, he wanted this oneparticular shot.
He found a spot somewhere inthe United States where the full
moon would sit low with herhorizon with the trees.
And then they basically justdid the scale model.
So I just thought it was, thatwas so interesting because that is
so of his era.
It is.
And when you think of theopening of Jaws.
So Susan Beckline.
(22:51):
Beck.
Laleen Beckleyn.
Yeah, it's.
Her name is kind of difficultto pronounce.
Yeah, I think it's Susan Beckley.
She was a swimmer and she sentSpielberg a nude photo of her and
said I am.
You don't have to get a stunt model.
You can do close ups of mebecause I model swimsuits and I'll
(23:12):
be nude in this, in this scenefor you.
And that's what the scenecalled for nudity.
Now you can't see anything,but you get that upside down shot
of her in the water and yousee her silhouette of her naked.
Like that's a real shot.
Right.
So she's willing to do that.
And of course the openingposter of Jaws is the.
It's this opening of a skinnydipper being attacked.
(23:34):
Now when they filmed this, shewore cut off jean shorts with 10
pound weights in each side pocket.
And each weight were attachedto ropes with 10 men on each rope.
So that's.
They were pulling her acrossand they were pulling her.
So that's where you get thatmotion that looks like a six ton
great white with her in itsmouth, but flinging her around is
(23:58):
those men.
And so that her reaction.
Right.
And then Spielberg said,Spielberg's the one who actually
pulls her underwater.
Right.
So he wanted that authentic,like she just goes underwater.
Like he did.
He did that.
But then he.
For voiceovers for this, hepoured water down her throat and
made her kind of like gargle.
Yeah, I. I read that too.
(24:18):
Is they didn't like herscreaming as it was filmed.
So they had her go back in thestudio and screaming.
And then they were, they werekind of, you know, making it better.
Yeah.
So with movie magic now,another interesting Spielberg fact,
because, you know, he's likeone of the greatest directors of
all time.
But Spielberg has actuallymade the highest grossing movie ever
(24:38):
three times.
So he keeps breaking his own record.
So the first one was Jaws.
Made more than 470 million in1975, which is bananas.
Then in 1982, E.T.
the Extraterrestrial Classicmovie, toppled Star wars from the
number one spot when itgrossed 792 million.
(24:59):
And then ET was overtaken byJurassic park, which took in 914
million worldwide in 1993.
So I just thought that wassuch a fun fact that essentially
he's made the highest grossingmovie ever three times in his career
because he just keeps beating himself.
Well, it's so interestingbecause we talk about this like he
didn't think he was going towork again.
(25:19):
So when he films in Martha'sVineyard and I tell people this,
he uses a lot of the localpeople and it's a touristy area.
He would set up a shot andthen a sailboat would come into the.
To the frame and he'd have towait for the sailboat to go across
the frame because this isbefore they could cut things out.
(25:40):
And as soon as that sailboatwould get out of the frame, another
boat would come into the frameand he'd be like, you got to be kidding
me.
I'm trying to get the light.
Because.
Because they were actually outthere on the boat filming in the
water.
Yeah, right off the sh.
Of Martha's Vineyard.
You can actually line up the shots.
And so the budget was 4 million.
He ended up spending 9 million.
I think doubled the budget.
He was like, I'm never goingto work again.
(26:01):
It was supposed to be a 60 day shoot.
It was 159 day shoot.
And this is like his first.
He's trying to make his first movie.
Really.
And he's just thinking, thisis it.
My career is over.
Yeah.
And you know what?
I read too Was after the moviewas basically done.
He want.
He was, I guess he waswatching some of the audience reactions
(26:22):
of like the early screening ofthe film and he wanted to add in
one more kind of like scary scene.
And so that scene whereRichard Dreyfus character dives under
the water and goes.
Goes to look for the boat hopper.
Yeah.
And like the dead body popsout the head.
So he asked the studio if hecould go back and film that.
And they said no, you're wayover budget.
(26:44):
So he just paid money out ofhis own pocket.
And they filmed it in like afriend's pool.
Yeah.
In Encino.
They put milk in the water tomake it cloudy.
And he used a prop head andjust kind of made the head roll around.
I just think that's, I thinkthat's so interesting of like how
these legendary movies.
You know me, I love watchinglike band documentaries.
Cause I love learning howbands kind of come together and make
(27:06):
their music.
Same thing for something likethis that's as legendary as Jaws
and all these little finishing touches.
Cause I remember that sceneand that, I mean that scene got me,
you know.
Well, it's attention to detail.
When you think about when theyfind the girl's torso and you see
her hand sticking out of thesand with the crabs and she's wearing
(27:26):
a ring and that's how to makeit seem like it's a girl's hand.
Because at first Spobergs.
How are they going to knowit's her hand?
We'll put a ring on it.
She's not wearing a ring inthat opening scene.
If you pay attention.
That was kind of.
And now you can go to Martha'sVineyard to the jewelry store that
made the ring for the fakehand for the girl on the beach.
(27:48):
So he's paying attention tohow the audience is going to have
buy in to the story.
And so I, I really love.
That's the men and the storytelling.
When I, I pay attention towhen Richard Dreyfus's character,
Hopper, he's supposed to be awell off person.
He's funded his own excursions.
(28:12):
Yeah.
And he shows up to thesheriff's house.
They the very first time kindof invites himself to dinner.
Chef Brody with two bottles of wine.
Right.
A red and a white.
I didn't know what you were eating.
What working class person does that?
You think Quint's gonna showup with two bottles of wine?
So Spoilk's showing you earlyon this class difference between
(28:34):
these men and how they kind ofhave to come together over all their
differences to hunt the shark,which I really appreciate.
He also used a lot of localsin the filming.
And the person who plays theoldest son, we've met his brother.
And when he goes into shockand he's in the hospital and they
(28:57):
ask, she asks him, what kindof ice cream do you want?
And he says, coffee.
That is a very Martha'sVineyard, New England thing.
Yeah, I didn't know that untilyou figured that.
That out.
And that's really what he said.
He was told to kind of ad libthat line.
And so he said coffee ice cream.
That was his favorite ice cream.
That's a real thing forMartha's Vineyard.
(29:17):
So I, I always think thatthat's kind of neat.
We're going to need a bigger boat.
Y totally ad libbed, famouslyadlib, the three men, the, you know,
Shaw, Brody and Hopper.
Quint.
Brody and Hopper, they were sosick and tired of spending time together
on these clothes, quartersthat they were just exhausted.
And so you're going to need abigger boat was more like what he
(29:39):
was feeling internally aboutbeing stuck on this boat and this
filming with you three guys.
And it's just driving me crazy.
So I always thought that wasneat too.
When you think of Quint and hecrushes the can.
It's Narragansett beer thathe's crushing.
That's very.
A New England brand.
(29:59):
And they have come out withthese same printed cans for the 50th
anniversary of JAWS.
Quint means five.
And quint is the fifth victimof the shark.
And if you, if you don't countthe dog, there is a.
It alludes to a dog being killed.
Yeah.
So he's the fifth victim.
You're gonna have the girl,you have the little boy on the.
(30:23):
The raft.
You're gonna get the man inthe boat with the head.
Yep.
Right.
You're gonna get the man inthe boat with his son gets knocked
off and then Quint.
Quint in the book is killed,much like Ahab is killed.
He shoots the barrel and the,the line wraps around his leg and
pulls him into the water andhe grinds.
(30:44):
Ahab will harpoon.
He's not like, basically eatenlike, like it is in the movie.
It's.
It's.
So he basically pulls him under.
Yes.
It's supposed to be an ode toMoby Dick.
Gotcha.
When.
When Betchley wrote that.
It's an ode to Moby Dick.
That's cool.
And if you've watched themovie, Peter Betchley's in the movie.
Peter Betchley plays one ofthe first reporters to report about
the shark.
(31:04):
I love.
I love when movies do that.
They let the author kind ofhave a little cameo.
Yep.
And I love that part, too.
It's just I. I love theshooting of Jaws.
I just love the making of it.
And like Scott.
Scott had alluded this.
They had made the shark Bruce,named after Spielberg's accountant
Bruce in fresh water.
(31:25):
When they got it to Martha'sVineyard and put it in salt water,
all of the gears kept seizing up.
Yep.
And again, Spielberg is like,I'm never going to work again.
So that's when he pivots andstarts to shoot the shark from.
Shoot the point of view fromthe shark, which I think worked 100
times.
That was.
That was.
I think that was like a.
(31:46):
And even if it wasunintentional, it was a masterful
touch.
Yeah.
And so then the barrels arealso used in the same kind of mindset.
Well, and you love that linewith the barrels.
You and your brother alwaysquote it back to back and forth to
each other via text.
Like after they've shot himwith, like, the third barrel that's
following around.
He's like something.
(32:08):
You can't go down with three.
Not with three.
Yeah.
He can't dive with threebecause it's supposed to wear him
out.
And then he dives with thethree, and they're like, like, oh,
this is.
This is different.
Yeah.
So, because again, the sharkkept seizing.
How are we going to show shark momentum?
How are we going to show shark movement?
How are we going to show shark presence?
So those barrels create thatidea of the shark once the barrel
(32:29):
comes up, you know, the sharkis close by, so he's creating this
awareness of this animalwithout being able to film it.
Even now, when I watch, doeslook hokey, but it's still scary.
Right.
I still think it's abelievable shark.
And 50 years later, it's stillan amazing movie.
(32:50):
Right.
It still looks like a million bucks.
And again, it was kind of agenre defining, you know, and we're
not going to go into, like,how it changed, you know, summer
blockbusters and it kind ofbeing the first big one because it
was such a massive hit.
There's plenty of otherpodcasts that do movie stuff, but
it's fun that it had theseties to history, the Indianapolis
(33:11):
and the Jersey shark attacks,and then obviously just some of the
behind the scenes of movieslike this that are so kind of pivotal
to pop culture and really too,like, you know, as someone who grew
up In California, you know,body surfing, boogie boarding, surfing,
doing all that stuff.
If I ever saw a fin out of thecorner of my eye, instinctually,
I knew it was most likely aDolphin because it's 99% of the time,
(33:34):
that's what it is.
But it would still strike thefear of God in me and I'd start swimming
away because you just don't,you don't want to risk it.
Honestly, it's.
I think it scared the world.
It scared the world out of the water.
We'll end on.
Spielberg thought this moviewas going to end his career.
He had been hard on the crew.
(33:55):
He'd been hard on people.
It had gone 160 days.
People were sick and tired of filming.
He did not show up for thelast day of filming because he thought
people were going to throw himinto the water.
And this, this movie has alsomade a fear of sharks in Spielberg.
So he doesn't go into theocean because of this movie.
And he didn't want to bethrown into the ocean.
So he's like, I'm not going toshow up for the last day of filming
(34:16):
because the movie did so welland just blew the summer blocksbuster.
It made his career.
He doesn't show up for anylast day of filming, for any of the
movies he makes now because ofthe tradition of what it did with
Joss.
So cool.
(34:38):
From the film's groundbreakingimpact on cinema to Spielberg's remarkable
career and personal insights,it's clear that Jaws is more than
just a movie.
It's a cultural milestone.
Steven Spielberg's dedicationto storytelling has not only entertained
millions, but also inspiredcountless filmmakers and enthusiasts
worldwide.
(34:58):
Who else can say they createda movie legend with just two notes?
Dunnit.
Dunnit.
You're gonna need a bigger boat.
Don't forget to follow us hereon YouTube or in your favorite podcast
player and we'll talk to younext time.
Thank you.
This has been Walk WithHistory production.
Talk with History is createdand hosted by me, Scott Benny.
Episode researched by Jennifer Benny.
(35:18):
Check out the show notes forlinks and references mentioned in
this episode.
Talk with History is supportedby our fans@thehistoryroadtrip.com
our eternal thanks go out tothose providing funding to help keep
us going.
Thank you to Doug McLiberty,Larry Myers, Patrick Benny, Gale
Cooper, Christy Coates, andCalvin Gifford.
(35:38):
Make sure you hit that followbutton in that podcast player and
we'll talk to you next time.
You're gonna need a bigger boat.
Today we're venturing into theocean depths of cinematic history
to explore the impact andlegacy of a film that changed the
way we see the water.
Steven Spielberg's jaws.
(00:46):
Released in 1975, Jaws wasn'tjust a movie.
It was a cultural phenomenonthat sparked a new era in filmmaking
and forever altered the summerblockbuster landscape.
But how did a film about agreat white shark manage to grip
audiences so tightly and leavea permanent mark on both the film
industry and popular culture?
(01:08):
In this episode, we'll unravelthe fascinating history behind the
making of Jaws, from itsorigins as a best selling novel by
Peter Benchley to the nailbiting challenges faced during its
production.
We'll also explore some of thetrue life historical events that
they reference right here inthis movie.
So grab your life jackets andjoin us as we dive into the thrilling
(01:28):
history of Jaws, a film thattook a bite out of cinematic history.
Welcome to Talk with History.
I am your host, Scott, herewith my wife and historian Jen.
Hello.
Today's podcast is part of aseries we call Watch with History.
The Watch With History serieswill focus on your favorite historical
(01:51):
films, where Jen and I willreview the Hollywood historic classics
we all know and love, whilealso discussing the history behind
these films with someinteresting facts.
We hope you enjoy this Watchwith History.
Three, two, one.
Here we go.
All right, Jen, so you lovethis movie.
(02:14):
It scares me to death and Ilove it.
It scares you to death, right?
I don't know if it's on thesame level as, like, John Wayne movies
and stuff, but it's up therefor you because you're, I mean, you're
a history buff, right?
You're a history buff, moviebuff, and you like this one for numerous
reasons.
Talk to us briefly about kindof where this movie kind of came
from, a little bit of thehistory behind it.
(02:34):
And then there are somehistorical events they talk about
throughout Jaws that some ofthe characters kind of draw their
inspiration from.
So let's, let's talk a littlebit about that and then we'll just
kind of get right into it.
So Jaws is so interesting,this movie.
It's like a perfect, perfect storm.
(02:56):
Things came together so well.
So Peter Begley wrote thisbook and didn't even name it, didn't
even name it until it wentinto printing.
I didn't know that.
It was like 30 minutes before printing.
They're like, we need a good name.
We need a quick name.
We need a.
A name that just, it juststicks with you.
And they just Like Jaws.
And so that's.
(03:16):
And, and when you think about.
I don't even picture anythingelse when I think of Jaws now besides
this movie.
Yeah, right.
And so it was so masterful.
Just that one word.
So Peter Betchley grew up onLong island.
And on Long island there wasthis notorious fisherman named Frank
Mundus.
(03:37):
And Frank Mundus, in 1964, hehad caught a great white shark off
of Montauk, New York.
And it was £4,500.
And it was just like this hugeshark that's massive and.
Yeah, right.
And Mundus, he had like thisPersona about him.
He would wear this shirt thatsaid monster fishing.
(03:59):
He would take people out shark fishing.
He's kind of loosely.
Who Quint is kind of based.
So kind of just like thissalty sailor.
Yes.
You know, just like kind ofgritty personality.
Just a gritty personality.
He caught this shark by harpoon.
So when we talked a littlebit, if you listen to our, our episode
about whaling and harpooning,what that is, that's how he caught
(04:21):
the shark.
Now in 1980, after Jaws comesout, he is going to.
He has the.
The title of catching thebiggest shark with just a line in
reel.
And that was off of Blockisland, which will be another video
and.
And podcast, which is a littleisland off of Rhode island, but in
(04:43):
that three island range of itsBlock Island, Martha's Vineyard and
Nantucket, which are all offthe coast of Long island, which is
where the book takes place,off of Long Island.
And this is where this, thisshark was caught.
Okay.
And that was 3, 500 pounds.
And again, line and reel.
So he catches 4,500 poundswith the harpoon.
3,500 rod and reel.
(05:04):
He has this whole Persona.
He wears the earring.
He's very like grandiose aboutwhat he talks about.
And so Quince is kind of basedoff him.
Peter Betchley was veryinspired by him when he writes Jaws.
And so.
But if you think about Jaws, Ialways laugh.
Like, the biggest shark hecaught is 4, 500.
How big is jaw supposed to be?
(05:25):
If you watch the movie, he'ssupposed to be three tons.
What's six, six thousand, sixthousand pounds?
Like, it's just right.
So he writes it in 1974, agreat white shark off of a small
town in Long Island.
So it's not supposed to reallybe an island like in the movie.
(05:46):
It's not supposed to beMartha's Vineyard.
And then, you know, he frequently.
He'd been fascinated with sharks.
He'd been to Nantucket many times.
But he writes this basicallybased on Frank Mundus.
And the book is a huge success.
I have not read it.
I tried to read the first page.
It does open up with theskinny dipper scene.
(06:09):
Okay.
But it talks to you from theshark's point of view.
And it freaked me out so muchthat I shut the book and threw it.
And I've never read it after that.
So, yeah, it's.
He's very well written.
I didn't realize that that'show the book was written.
And so almost when StevenSpielberg pivots.
And you'll talk more aboutthis when things start to go wrong
(06:29):
and he films it from theshark's point of view, that's in
more in line with what the book.
Oh, how.
How interesting Peter be.
When he writes Jaws, hedoesn't mention the really two big
historic things that arementioned in Jaws.
He doesn't write about the USSIndianapolis, and he doesn't write
about the shark attacks off ofthe New Jersey shore.
(06:52):
They're both mentioned in themovie, though.
Now, Quint in the book is a Marine.
So I did some research.
Were there Marines on the USS Indianapolis?
And when we talk about thehistory of the Indianapolis, I will
let you know if that fits.
But they pick Martha'sVineyard for the filming because
(07:15):
Spielberg could kind of justbe all encompassed there.
They can kind of geteverything done.
And it probably fit prettywell for what he's going with in
the movie.
He's looking to do this crazyevent, right?
Which is what Spielberg lovesto do.
Like this almost extra slashparanormal event, right?
This massive shark.
Or if it's E.T.
(07:35):
this alien.
Right.
If it's in Close Encounters ofthe Third Kind, it's literally aliens,
right?
Like, he loves these, these.
These larger than lifeunrealistic events that he pulls
into reality.
And I like that he kind oflikes to leave you isolated with
them.
Yeah, right.
And that's kind of whathappens with three.
These three men.
I think if it was on themainland of, you know, it would be
(07:57):
more people involved, but theytry to kind of isolate you.
So it really is Martha'sVineyard, then these three men, one
who's afraid of water,fighting this shark.
So it really does isolate youwith this man versus man story, man
versus beast story.
And so he does that very.
He's the storytelling.
So.
So a couple of interestingfacts about Steven Spielberg.
(08:20):
And I think this was before hedirected Jaws, because after he directed
Jaws, and we all know ifyou're watching this, you know, movie
was a massive Success, and hewas catapulted to stardom.
But he actually directed thepilot episode of the TV show Columbo.
Columbo.
He was 20 years old and he.
(08:41):
So he actually directed thepilot episode to the.
To the famous detective show Columbo.
I just thought that was sointeresting that he's like.
Like the very first one.
And then also, Spielbergalways wanted to direct a James Bond
movie.
And so as a young filmmaker inthe 1970s, he wanted to direct, make
this a James Bond movie.
(09:01):
But he had unsuccessfullypitched ideas to the studio that
owned, you know, those, those rights.
But in Jaws, he kind of addsthis nod to James Bond when he.
When Richard Dreyfuss'scharacter cuts the shark open and
he pulls out the Louisianalicense plate, which you have bought
a copy of.
It's sitting in our.
(09:22):
In our studio in our study area.
The three familiar digits atthe beginning of that license plate
is 007.
Is 0,07.
Yeah.
So that was because he hadalways wanted to direct a James Bond
movie.
Yeah.
And we talk a lot about thisif you don't.
Comes from movie history.
His great grandfather was aprop master for Paramount Studios,
(09:43):
and he worked every episode of bonanza.
He did 10 Commandments, RearWindow, Some Like It Hot.
And so the prop, I will followa prop master who talked about that
prop that Steven Spielbergwanted, this license plate that said
007 Louisiana.
And so I bought the propbecause it's supposed to say Sportsman's
Paradise.
(10:04):
That's what the real licenseplate says there, says Sports Men's
Paradise.
And that's what props do, justmake themselves just a little bit
different.
And it's super neat, and youcan buy that and have it.
Martha's Vineyard.
What's interesting aboutMartha's Vineyard, it's kind of shaped
like a shark fin.
It was discovered in 1602.
(10:25):
Of course, there wereindigenous people there, but the
English explorer BartholomewGosnold discovered it and named it
for his daughter Martha, who'snamed after his mother in law who
funded his expedition.
So is it his mother in law orhis daughter?
No one's sure.
But the truth is Martha nevervisited Martha's Vineyard.
(10:45):
Oh, really?
So he named it for them andthey never came there.
Also, he saw a lot of wildgrapes growing, which is where it
gets the vineyard name.
But there is no actualvineyard in Martha's Vineyard, so
it's named for a person whonever visited.
And there's no real vineyardin Martha's Vineyard.
So it's kind of funny when youtalk about that.
Very, very touristy.
(11:07):
So even when Spielberg'sfilming this at the time today year
round populations about 20,000when I was there and daily it peaks
to 200,000 people.
That's wild.
And it's interesting becausethis rise of people coming to visit
came because of missionaries.
(11:29):
And they used to come outthere around 1835.
They would do these kind oftense and prophesy, you know, not
prophesies but you know, havethese campground meetings, these
Methodist meetings.
And so it became like a yearlyretreat where these Methodists would
come to Martha's Vineyard andcamp out.
They kind of started thetrend, started.
The trend where people comefor the summer.
(11:50):
So that's where Martha'sVineyard got its tourist destination
reputation.
Now going back to the, to themovie you had mentioned the kind
of two real events right now,one of them you said was the some
Jersey Shore shark attacks.
Was that like in the early 1900s?
Was that just kind of local legend?
(12:11):
So there were these.
It's amazing.
If you watch Shark Week you'realways going to hear about these
shark attacks because theyjust were so one off and they never
really happen again.
It happened in 1916, okay, sothat, that early July 1st through
the 12th, five attacks overtwo weeks resulting in four deaths
off the Jersey shore.
And it's interesting that itstarts south on the Jersey shore
(12:36):
and works its way up.
Now when we talk about LongIsland, Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket,
it's not far.
Great whites migrate all of this.
And if you follow great whitesnow you see North Carolina, they're
off the coast.
Like this is, this is wheregreat whites really do migrate off
the co.
The Atlantic coast here.
So July 1, it attacks aperson, 23 year old swimming, it
(13:02):
just, it really just takes achunk out of them and they bleed
out.
Then up the July 6, justfurther up the shore again, someone
else is swimming, bit theabdomen, severe, severed their legs
and someone just thought itwas like a red canoe had flipped
over.
And then on July 12, I meanthis is the craziest one is it swims
(13:24):
up a waterway and attacks an11 year old boy and kills him.
And then someone tries torescue him, jumps in the water and
he's also killed a 24 yearold, tries to kill him.
So that, so that's like rightin line with what how the book and
then what the movie portrays,right when the shark swims up the
(13:44):
little waterway, right andswims by the boy and the boy's traumatized
and all that stuff.
And it kind of also goes inLine with this whole rogue.
Right.
This is what they're saying isthat this.
This great white is rogue andhunting on its own.
Yeah.
He's essentially, like, foundhis feeding ground and he's not going
to leave.
They never caught that greatwhite shark.
(14:05):
There is still controversy.
Shark Week will always talkabout this.
Was it the same shark?
Was it a bull shark?
Was it a great white shark?
It's listed in the nationalregistry of shark attacks as a great
white attack.
And all four of them are four victims.
There was a fifth boy who was attacked.
(14:26):
He survived.
Wow.
So.
But, yeah, and it neverhappened again.
Yeah.
So.
So that's.
And I don't think they talkdirectly about the Jersey shore in
the movie, so.
No, in the movie they do.
They do.
Remember, the mayor will askHopper, who's the zoologist who studies
sharks.
Oh, yeah.
Has this ever happened before?
And he will say in the 1900soff of Jersey Shore.
(14:48):
He makes a quick comment about it.
Richard Dreyfus's character.
Richard Dreyfuss's character.
It's not in the book.
It's just mentioned quickly inthe movie.
But that's what he's talking about.
Now, the USS Indianapolis,that I think, like the great monologue
that Quinton gives to thethree men as they're, like, waiting
for the shark to come when.
(15:09):
They'Re drinking on the boatat night.
They're bored.
Right.
Sailor life.
Getting on each other's nerves.
Getting on each other's nerves.
I appreciate these three menwho represent this class differences
here.
There's definitely, you know,different backgrounds, but these
men all want the same thingand all hunting the same thing.
And they can all appreciatewhere one's lacking, where the other
(15:32):
one has a different expertise.
And so Quint is talking aboutsurviving the USS Indianapolis.
And so the USS Indianapoliswas a.
Was a cruiser during World WarII that played a critical role in
delivering the atomic bomb onJuly 30, 1945.
She had delivered thecomponents to Tinian island for the
(15:55):
first bomb for.
For Little Boy.
And.
And it was later sunk by aJapanese submarine.
It resulted in the greatestsingle loss of life at sea in the
history of the U.S. navy.
Now, is it.
Is it true that essentially,and I think Quint mentions this,
is that, like, their missionwas so secret that nobody knew that
they were doing this?
Nobody knew where they were.
(16:16):
They were kind of like almost radio.
Semi.
Radio silent.
So when they got hit by thisJapanese submarine and the ship started
sinking, nobody knew to golook for them?
Yes, I think it's a Little bit.
I looked more into it.
It was a little bit no oneknew to go look for them, but they
didn't know that they weresupposed to be ported six days later
and a couple of days later andthat person also missed it.
(16:39):
But you can think it's the endof World War II and ships are coming
and going so fast that they didn't.
Didn't put two and two together.
But yeah.
So early, early in the morning.
Like I'm talking 12:15am OnJuly 30, they were torpedoed by a
Japanese submarine and theship sank in 12 minutes.
Wow.
And 1200 crewmen were on board.
(17:01):
300 went down with the ship,but the remaining 900 went into the
water.
And they're going to face,like you said, days of exposure,
dehydration, salt water poisoning.
But when Quint talks about isthe shark attack.
Yeah, Right.
And so they're stranded outthere with all of these sharks that
basically just feed off ofthem for four days and men will swim
(17:27):
away.
And they don't really know howmany people were actually killed
by the sharks or how many justsuccumb to the elements.
But they say a few dozen to 150.
But they were out there forfour days.
Four days, no water.
Four days in the sun.
And that is such a classicscene in the movie Jaws, because
his delivery of that story isjust amazing.
(17:47):
And I.
But you know, I'll let youguys kind of behind the scenes of
Walk with history here.
I watched Jaws for the firsttime just a couple weeks ago.
So I was sitting there rivetedby this.
Right.
And I think the boys hadwatched it with you like probably
six months ago because youwanted to show them.
Be like, now the beginning'sso scary.
And they weren't phased at all.
But, but his delivery of thatstory and, and them sitting there
(18:11):
in this tiny little cabin, youknow, and him reciting the story
and then not too long afterit, I think that's when the shark
first starts.
Yeah, you know, they, theyspot the shark again.
It's just amazing.
It's amazing.
And it's Robert Shaw.
Robert Shaw is a great actorat the time, but he's delivering
this monologue about the, theshark attack on the Indianapolis
and only 300 men will survive.
(18:34):
So when you talk about 900went into the water, only one third
survived.
He talks about a friend thathe kind of tries to shake awake and
he bobs up and down becausehe's been butt bitten in half.
Those were tiger sharks thatattacked them.
And I Want to let people know,four days later it was a PV1 Ventura
(18:55):
plane.
A young pilot flew by and sawthem in the water and they went out
and rescued them.
Now, I talked to you beforeabout Marines, right?
How many Marines were on board?
And could Quint have been aMarine on the USS Indianapolis?
There were 39 Marines on theUSS Indianapolis.
Wow.
Nine survived.
Oh, so he could have been oneof those.
(19:16):
So Quint could have been oneof those.
Oh, what a cool, like little tie.
Now did they write that in thebook or is that specifically for
the movie?
That's specifically for the movie.
I think the screenwriterswanted to tie in a real life shark
story.
I will say what Jaws did for alot of people was we.
(19:37):
First of all, it scared youout of the ocean, right?
Most people are scared todeath of going to the ocean.
Most people didn't know a lotabout sharks before Jaws.
Tiger shark, great white shark.
What like.
And so Hopper's character ofknowing all these different sharks,
I might have one of myfavorite lines from the movie, and
you can get this in, is whenthe fisherman catch the tiger shark.
(19:57):
And Harper's like, that's notthe shark.
And he goes.
Or he goes, what kind of sharkis this?
Look at this man eater.
And he goes, he's measuringhis mouth.
He goes, it's a tiger shark.
And the guy goes, what?
I love that part because they don't.
It's not like we know sharks today.
Today.
Yeah, there was no Shark Week.
This is Shark Week.
We know different types of sharks.
We're fascinated with it, right.
(20:18):
Tiger sharks are darker ontheir back.
You know, they're.
They're camouflaged by thesand, right?
And they really.
They are tropical sharks, right?
Hawaii.
The girl who had her arm bitoff, the surfer, that was a tiger
shark.
Great whites are cold watersharks, right?
Arctic shark, they just wantto stay in the cold water.
They're white, they're gray.
(20:39):
So they're in a different kindof environment than a tiger shark.
So that's just kind of interesting.
But when we talk about thefilming of Jaws, the opening, it's
(21:04):
become a synonymous Spielbergopening, it has.
Where it grabs you right away, it.
Grabs you right away.
And one of the things, andwe'll kind of mention a couple examples
that I think are pretty wellknown as far as like the mechanical
shark having all sorts of issues.
And so that's how he kind ofpivoted to this.
You can't see the shark, whichis actually scarier.
(21:24):
So one of the things that Ilooked up About Steven Spielberg
is he loves to do this kind ofmuch more practical in camera, no
digital trickery, especiallyback then, because you couldn't kind
of filming.
And so one of the most iconicscenes from Steven Spielberg's, arguably
his, one of his biggest moviesever is ET and so that scene where
(21:46):
you, you know, and it's, it'snow what Amblin is the production
company where they're ridingtheir bikes through the sky in front
of the moon.
That is all practically shot.
And I'll explain how I, Ilooked this up.
I said of all the iconicmoments and shots that Spielberg
has given us, the moment thatET And Elliott fly past the moon
was.
Everything was shot in camera.
(22:06):
So it took the effects team,Industrial Light and Magic weeks
of scouting to identify theright place for filming.
They use maps and astrologicalcharts to find the perfect time that
a full moon would sit lowamong the trees in that spot.
So now Elliot and ET Werescale models, but the rest is all,
is all shot in camera.
So they actually found likethey, they didn't have to do that.
(22:30):
Right.
But they, he wanted this oneparticular shot.
He found a spot somewhere inthe United States where the full
moon would sit low with herhorizon with the trees.
And then they basically justdid the scale model.
So I just thought it was, thatwas so interesting because that is
so of his era.
It is.
And when you think of theopening of Jaws.
So Susan Beckline.
(22:51):
Beck.
Laleen Beckleyn.
Yeah, it's.
Her name is kind of difficultto pronounce.
Yeah, I think it's Susan Beckley.
She was a swimmer and she sentSpielberg a nude photo of her and
said I am.
You don't have to get a stunt model.
You can do close ups of mebecause I model swimsuits and I'll
(23:12):
be nude in this, in this scenefor you.
And that's what the scenecalled for nudity.
Now you can't see anything,but you get that upside down shot
of her in the water and yousee her silhouette of her naked.
Like that's a real shot.
Right.
So she's willing to do that.
And of course the openingposter of Jaws is the.
It's this opening of a skinnydipper being attacked.
(23:34):
Now when they filmed this, shewore cut off jean shorts with 10
pound weights in each side pocket.
And each weight were attachedto ropes with 10 men on each rope.
So that's.
They were pulling her acrossand they were pulling her.
So that's where you get thatmotion that looks like a six ton
great white with her in itsmouth, but flinging her around is
(23:58):
those men.
And so that her reaction.
Right.
And then Spielberg said,Spielberg's the one who actually
pulls her underwater.
Right.
So he wanted that authentic,like she just goes underwater.
Like he did.
He did that.
But then he.
For voiceovers for this, hepoured water down her throat and
made her kind of like gargle.
Yeah, I. I read that too.
(24:18):
Is they didn't like herscreaming as it was filmed.
So they had her go back in thestudio and screaming.
And then they were, they werekind of, you know, making it better.
Yeah.
So with movie magic now,another interesting Spielberg fact,
because, you know, he's likeone of the greatest directors of
all time.
But Spielberg has actuallymade the highest grossing movie ever
(24:38):
three times.
So he keeps breaking his own record.
So the first one was Jaws.
Made more than 470 million in1975, which is bananas.
Then in 1982, E.T.
the Extraterrestrial Classicmovie, toppled Star wars from the
number one spot when itgrossed 792 million.
(24:59):
And then ET was overtaken byJurassic park, which took in 914
million worldwide in 1993.
So I just thought that wassuch a fun fact that essentially
he's made the highest grossingmovie ever three times in his career
because he just keeps beating himself.
Well, it's so interestingbecause we talk about this like he
didn't think he was going towork again.
(25:19):
So when he films in Martha'sVineyard and I tell people this,
he uses a lot of the localpeople and it's a touristy area.
He would set up a shot andthen a sailboat would come into the.
To the frame and he'd have towait for the sailboat to go across
the frame because this isbefore they could cut things out.
(25:40):
And as soon as that sailboatwould get out of the frame, another
boat would come into the frameand he'd be like, you got to be kidding
me.
I'm trying to get the light.
Because.
Because they were actually outthere on the boat filming in the
water.
Yeah, right off the sh.
Of Martha's Vineyard.
You can actually line up the shots.
And so the budget was 4 million.
He ended up spending 9 million.
I think doubled the budget.
He was like, I'm never goingto work again.
(26:01):
It was supposed to be a 60 day shoot.
It was 159 day shoot.
And this is like his first.
He's trying to make his first movie.
Really.
And he's just thinking, thisis it.
My career is over.
Yeah.
And you know what?
I read too Was after the moviewas basically done.
He want.
He was, I guess he waswatching some of the audience reactions
(26:22):
of like the early screening ofthe film and he wanted to add in
one more kind of like scary scene.
And so that scene whereRichard Dreyfus character dives under
the water and goes.
Goes to look for the boat hopper.
Yeah.
And like the dead body popsout the head.
So he asked the studio if hecould go back and film that.
And they said no, you're wayover budget.
(26:44):
So he just paid money out ofhis own pocket.
And they filmed it in like afriend's pool.
Yeah.
In Encino.
They put milk in the water tomake it cloudy.
And he used a prop head andjust kind of made the head roll around.
I just think that's, I thinkthat's so interesting of like how
these legendary movies.
You know me, I love watchinglike band documentaries.
Cause I love learning howbands kind of come together and make
(27:06):
their music.
Same thing for something likethis that's as legendary as Jaws
and all these little finishing touches.
Cause I remember that sceneand that, I mean that scene got me,
you know.
Well, it's attention to detail.
When you think about when theyfind the girl's torso and you see
her hand sticking out of thesand with the crabs and she's wearing
(27:26):
a ring and that's how to makeit seem like it's a girl's hand.
Because at first Spobergs.
How are they going to knowit's her hand?
We'll put a ring on it.
She's not wearing a ring inthat opening scene.
If you pay attention.
That was kind of.
And now you can go to Martha'sVineyard to the jewelry store that
made the ring for the fakehand for the girl on the beach.
(27:48):
So he's paying attention tohow the audience is going to have
buy in to the story.
And so I, I really love.
That's the men and the storytelling.
When I, I pay attention towhen Richard Dreyfus's character,
Hopper, he's supposed to be awell off person.
He's funded his own excursions.
(28:12):
Yeah.
And he shows up to thesheriff's house.
They the very first time kindof invites himself to dinner.
Chef Brody with two bottles of wine.
Right.
A red and a white.
I didn't know what you were eating.
What working class person does that?
You think Quint's gonna showup with two bottles of wine?
So Spoilk's showing you earlyon this class difference between
(28:34):
these men and how they kind ofhave to come together over all their
differences to hunt the shark,which I really appreciate.
He also used a lot of localsin the filming.
And the person who plays theoldest son, we've met his brother.
And when he goes into shockand he's in the hospital and they
(28:57):
ask, she asks him, what kindof ice cream do you want?
And he says, coffee.
That is a very Martha'sVineyard, New England thing.
Yeah, I didn't know that untilyou figured that.
That out.
And that's really what he said.
He was told to kind of ad libthat line.
And so he said coffee ice cream.
That was his favorite ice cream.
That's a real thing forMartha's Vineyard.
(29:17):
So I, I always think thatthat's kind of neat.
We're going to need a bigger boat.
Y totally ad libbed, famouslyadlib, the three men, the, you know,
Shaw, Brody and Hopper.
Quint.
Brody and Hopper, they were sosick and tired of spending time together
on these clothes, quartersthat they were just exhausted.
And so you're going to need abigger boat was more like what he
(29:39):
was feeling internally aboutbeing stuck on this boat and this
filming with you three guys.
And it's just driving me crazy.
So I always thought that wasneat too.
When you think of Quint and hecrushes the can.
It's Narragansett beer thathe's crushing.
That's very.
A New England brand.
(29:59):
And they have come out withthese same printed cans for the 50th
anniversary of JAWS.
Quint means five.
And quint is the fifth victimof the shark.
And if you, if you don't countthe dog, there is a.
It alludes to a dog being killed.
Yeah.
So he's the fifth victim.
You're gonna have the girl,you have the little boy on the.
(30:23):
The raft.
You're gonna get the man inthe boat with the head.
Yep.
Right.
You're gonna get the man inthe boat with his son gets knocked
off and then Quint.
Quint in the book is killed,much like Ahab is killed.
He shoots the barrel and the,the line wraps around his leg and
pulls him into the water andhe grinds.
(30:44):
Ahab will harpoon.
He's not like, basically eatenlike, like it is in the movie.
It's.
It's.
So he basically pulls him under.
Yes.
It's supposed to be an ode toMoby Dick.
Gotcha.
When.
When Betchley wrote that.
It's an ode to Moby Dick.
That's cool.
And if you've watched themovie, Peter Betchley's in the movie.
Peter Betchley plays one ofthe first reporters to report about
the shark.
(31:04):
I love.
I love when movies do that.
They let the author kind ofhave a little cameo.
Yep.
And I love that part, too.
It's just I. I love theshooting of Jaws.
I just love the making of it.
And like Scott.
Scott had alluded this.
They had made the shark Bruce,named after Spielberg's accountant
Bruce in fresh water.
(31:25):
When they got it to Martha'sVineyard and put it in salt water,
all of the gears kept seizing up.
Yep.
And again, Spielberg is like,I'm never going to work again.
So that's when he pivots andstarts to shoot the shark from.
Shoot the point of view fromthe shark, which I think worked 100
times.
That was.
That was.
I think that was like a.
(31:46):
And even if it wasunintentional, it was a masterful
touch.
Yeah.
And so then the barrels arealso used in the same kind of mindset.
Well, and you love that linewith the barrels.
You and your brother alwaysquote it back to back and forth to
each other via text.
Like after they've shot himwith, like, the third barrel that's
following around.
He's like something.
(32:08):
You can't go down with three.
Not with three.
Yeah.
He can't dive with threebecause it's supposed to wear him
out.
And then he dives with thethree, and they're like, like, oh,
this is.
This is different.
Yeah.
So, because again, the sharkkept seizing.
How are we going to show shark momentum?
How are we going to show shark movement?
How are we going to show shark presence?
So those barrels create thatidea of the shark once the barrel
(32:29):
comes up, you know, the sharkis close by, so he's creating this
awareness of this animalwithout being able to film it.
Even now, when I watch, doeslook hokey, but it's still scary.
Right.
I still think it's abelievable shark.
And 50 years later, it's stillan amazing movie.
(32:50):
Right.
It still looks like a million bucks.
And again, it was kind of agenre defining, you know, and we're
not going to go into, like,how it changed, you know, summer
blockbusters and it kind ofbeing the first big one because it
was such a massive hit.
There's plenty of otherpodcasts that do movie stuff, but
it's fun that it had theseties to history, the Indianapolis
(33:11):
and the Jersey shark attacks,and then obviously just some of the
behind the scenes of movieslike this that are so kind of pivotal
to pop culture and really too,like, you know, as someone who grew
up In California, you know,body surfing, boogie boarding, surfing,
doing all that stuff.
If I ever saw a fin out of thecorner of my eye, instinctually,
I knew it was most likely aDolphin because it's 99% of the time,
(33:34):
that's what it is.
But it would still strike thefear of God in me and I'd start swimming
away because you just don't,you don't want to risk it.
Honestly, it's.
I think it scared the world.
It scared the world out of the water.
We'll end on.
Spielberg thought this moviewas going to end his career.
He had been hard on the crew.
(33:55):
He'd been hard on people.
It had gone 160 days.
People were sick and tired of filming.
He did not show up for thelast day of filming because he thought
people were going to throw himinto the water.
And this, this movie has alsomade a fear of sharks in Spielberg.
So he doesn't go into theocean because of this movie.
And he didn't want to bethrown into the ocean.
So he's like, I'm not going toshow up for the last day of filming
(34:16):
because the movie did so welland just blew the summer blocksbuster.
It made his career.
He doesn't show up for anylast day of filming, for any of the
movies he makes now because ofthe tradition of what it did with
Joss.
So cool.
(34:38):
From the film's groundbreakingimpact on cinema to Spielberg's remarkable
career and personal insights,it's clear that Jaws is more than
just a movie.
It's a cultural milestone.
Steven Spielberg's dedicationto storytelling has not only entertained
millions, but also inspiredcountless filmmakers and enthusiasts
worldwide.
(34:58):
Who else can say they createda movie legend with just two notes?
Dunnit.
Dunnit.
You're gonna need a bigger boat.
Don't forget to follow us hereon YouTube or in your favorite podcast
player and we'll talk to younext time.
Thank you.
This has been Walk WithHistory production.
Talk with History is createdand hosted by me, Scott Benny.
Episode researched by Jennifer Benny.
(35:18):
Check out the show notes forlinks and references mentioned in
this episode.
Talk with History is supportedby our fans@thehistoryroadtrip.com
our eternal thanks go out tothose providing funding to help keep
us going.
Thank you to Doug McLiberty,Larry Myers, Patrick Benny, Gale
Cooper, Christy Coates, andCalvin Gifford.
(35:38):
Make sure you hit that followbutton in that podcast player and
we'll talk to you next time.
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