July 22, 2024 • 47 mins
🎙️
Comment on this episode and chat with the community.We explore the Normandy American Cemetery, commemorating the fallen heroes of World War I and WWII. We highlight personal stories, including Quentin and Theodore Roosevelt III, the Niland Brothers, members of the 6888th Central Postal Directory Battalion, and more. We share their personal connection to Lieutenant Harry Wagner of Penn State.
We also have an exciting announcement on where you can comment on the episode now!
(spoiler alert) head to https://www.thehistoryroadtrip.com to comment on this episode and chat with us and other listeners to see what they think!!
🎙️ Mary McLeod Bethune and the 6888th Postal Batallion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott (00:06):
We were flying high above the French countryside on July
14th, 1918, a day that wouldforever be etched in my memory.
The sun was just beginningto rise, casting a golden hue
across the landscape below.
I glanced over at Quentin Roosevelt,the youngest son of the former
president, who was flying hisNewport 28, the fighter beside me.
(00:27):
His face was set with determination,a look I had come to recognize
during our many sorties together.
Quentin and I had become fast friendssince he joined the 95th Air squadron.
Despite his famous lineage, hewas just another pilot to us.
Eager to do his part in the war effort.
We had flown numerous missions together,each one more perilous than the last,
but today, something felt different.
(00:50):
There was an air of tensionthat I just couldn't shake.
We had been tasked with a patrolover the Marne River in an area
teeming with German activity.
Our orders were simple.
Engage and disrupt their operations.
As we neared our patrol zone,I spotted a formation of German
Fokker deep in the forest.
(01:12):
There were, they were outnumbering us,but we had faced worse odds before.
The air became thick with the sound ofmachine gun fire as we engaged the enemy.
Quentin and I maneuvered ourplanes with precision, weaving
through the sky in deadly dance.
I saw Quentin take down one of the Germanfighters, a plume of smoke trailing from
its engine as it spiraled to the ground.
He gave me a quick thumbs up, a briefmoment of triumph amidst the chaos.
(01:34):
But then, out of the corner ofmy eye, I saw a German fighter
bearing down on Quentin's six.
I shouted a warning.
It was morning, but the roar ofour engines drowned out my voice.
The enemy pilot opened fire andI watched in horror as Quinten's
plane shuddered under the impact.
Smoke and flames erupted fromhis engine and his fighter
began to lose altitude rapidly.
Bail out, I yelled, hopingagainst hope that he could
(01:55):
hear me, but it was too late.
His plane was in a steep dive and Isaw him struggle to regain control.
The ground rushed up to meet himand with a sickening thud, his
plane crashed into the field below.
I wanted to go after him.
And to see if there was any chance hehad survived that the battle raged on
around me, I had to keep fighting, knowingthat my own life hung in the balance.
It was only after me and the othershad driven off the remaining German
(02:18):
fighters that I was able to break awayand make my way to the crash site.
When I arrived, my worstfears were confirmed.
Quentin's plane was a twisted wreckand there was no sign of movement.
I knew that his death would be devastatingblow to his family, especially to his
father who had already endured so much.
Quentin Roosevelt died that day, buthis bravery and spirit lived on in
(02:38):
the hearts of those who knew him.
He had given his life for hiscountry, a sacrifice that would be
remembered long after the war was over.
The news of Quentin's death spreadquickly, and the rumor was that
even the German pilots who engagedus that day paid their respects.
His loss was felt deeply byall who knew him, a poignant
reminder of the true cost of war.
And as I took to the skies oncemore, I carried with me the
(03:01):
memory of Quentin Roosevelt, abrave pilot and a true friend.
(03:22):
Welcome to Talk With History.
I'm your host, Scott, herewith my wife and historian,
Jenn (03:27):
Hello.
Scott (03:28):
On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired
world travels, YouTube channeljourney, and examine history
through deeper conversations withthe curious, the explorers, and
the history lovers out there.
Now, Jen, this will be, I think,our second Normandy podcast, but
before we get into that, I do havesomething for our listeners, some news.
(03:51):
You guys may have heard thatI'm trying some stuff out.
I've got stuff coming down the pipedifferent Potential premium podcasts
and newsletter stuff I say all of thatbecause we actually have one single place
now where if you want to Talk to us ifyou want to chat with us if you want to
comment on these podcasts you can go tothe history road trip comm and there's
(04:12):
a place for us to chat there So that'sgonna that'll be my centralized place for
anybody who wants to ask questions aboutthe podcast or Who wants to say hey, I
love this part of it or whatever it is Youcan find us over at the history road trip.
com And there's a chat function overthere And we'll have just a running
chat and you can see other peopletalking about the episode as well.
(04:34):
So it's a really neat thing thatwe're starting up that's part of
this new kind of newsletter and extrapodcasts that's coming in the future.
So if you want to chat withus about these episodes.
What I'm going to do is after eachone airs, I'll start a running
chat about what people thoughtabout the most recent episode.
You can drop us a line over there.
(04:55):
You can say hello.
You can follow along with other thingsthat I'll be publishing over there more.
in depth travel type stuff.
But also a place for us to chatwith our podcast listeners.
So because there's no universal comments,you can't comment on a podcast in
Apple podcast or anything like that.
That will be the place for, forfolks to come in and chat with us.
Jenn (05:13):
sounds great.
Scott (05:14):
Yeah.
So that's the history road trip.
com.
That's the history road trip.
com.
Jenn (05:21):
The History Road, trip
Scott (05:22):
The, the, the history road trip dot com.
So we, last week we talkedabout gold beach, right?
That was your first day at Normandy andon your second day during, like on actual
D day, the actual 80th anniversary, but Ithink it was, I believe it was before you
(05:43):
went to the kind of ceremonies and stuff.
You went over to the Normandy.
American Cemetery, and you gotto visit some, some gravesites
of some pretty well known
historical
figures over there.
Jenn (05:55):
So that actually was the day of the 80th ceremony.
It was.
Because there were so many headsof state and government officials
that were going to be at this 80thanniversary ceremony at the Normandy
American Cemetery, we had to be thereabout Five six hours before it started.
(06:16):
We had to go through security,go through tents, have everything
checked, have our credentials with us.
And so I had a lot of time at thatcemetery and and made a video from there,
which I wanted to do anyway, but becausethis was such a busy, crowded weekend,
the first day we were in Normandy, wewere supposed to go to the Normandy
(06:38):
American cemetery, but it was, they closedit because so many people were there.
Scott (06:42):
Okay.
Jenn (06:43):
So I was able to do it that day.
So it's, I'm there the dayof the 80th anniversary,
Scott (06:48):
Yeah, you were there on June 6,
Jenn (06:54):
more significant when I got to put sand from Omaha Beach into a specific
grave that we'll talk about my connectionto It made it that much more significant
to be able to do that that day.
So yes, I'm there on theactual anniversary of D Day
Scott (07:13):
it was, it was really neat.
And we're going to talk about these not inexactly the order you got to visit them.
And then we'll, we'll talk about theone tie you have to one of the graves
there that you actually got to, and,and, and rub sand in and, and some
of the local news coverage, I'llcall it that, that came out of that.
But first we're going to talkthere's a fair amount and
you bring it up in the video.
(07:34):
There's a fair amount of siblingsessentially that are, that are buried
Jenn (07:38):
well first let's talk about what it is.
So this is a Americancemetery in in France.
And it is run by America.
And even though it's not Americansoil, they have plants and things
that are indigenous to America.
And it is all paid for by Americans.
(07:58):
So there's only Americansburied in the cemetery.
Scott (08:01):
realize that
Jenn (08:02):
And it was established pretty shortly after D Day, so June 8th, 1944.
So as you can, Probably imaginea lot of men were dying and
they needed to bury these men.
And so the Normandy American cemeteryactually overlooks Omaha beach.
It's the bluff above Omaha beach.
(08:22):
It covers 172 acres.
It contains 9, 388 burials.
All Americans, all butone is from World War II.
And we'll talk about that one.
That's from World War
I.
Scott (08:37):
the only
Jenn (08:38):
He's the only
one.
Everybody else is from World War II.
Now, there's been a recent burial asrecent, I'd say 2018, who was the twin
brother of one of the men who wereburied there from the D Day timeframe.
But he also served in World War II,and he wanted to be with his brother.
So there's some specifics,even if you want to be buried
Scott (09:00):
Yeah, so I actually went to the website and I looked it up.
The most, the most recent burial, thisis when I checked the website like a week
ago, was actually in October of 2022.
And it was he would, I mean, they saidAir Force, but it was Army Air Corps
back then, but they found him and theyburied him almost 80 years, almost,
78 years, after, after he passed.
Jenn (09:22):
where they asked all next of kin, everybody who's buried there,
they've asked, they asked all nextof kin, would you rather have Your
family member Repatriated back homeor buried with his comrades here on
French soil in an American cemetery
Yes, so families everybody who's buriedthere besides the unknowns are were
(09:42):
agreed to have them buried there So again,it's established two days after D Day.
It is a pretty Amazing placewhat's interesting about the
Normandy American Cemetery?
Is there only really two typesof, I would say, markers?
(10:02):
It's really just crosses and starsof David, because the army at the
time only recognized Latin crossesfor Protestants and Catholics.
And then there's stars of Davidfor the, for Jewish religion.
And so these are the only threereligions recognized at the
time by the United States army.
So no other types of markers are present.
(10:23):
Okay.
So that's all you see
Scott (10:25):
So I actually noticed that, but I didn't understand the reasoning why.
So that's neat.
Jenn (10:29):
It's very neat.
Now, you will see some markershave the gold Lettering those
will be Medal of Honor recipientsand then everything is in white.
It's white marble with white etchingof the actual marker connotation names
and specific dates and regiments.
But what people do is they take sandand we'll rub it in to that marker.
(10:54):
So that's what you see sometimes whenyou're able to read it a lot more clearly
.Scott: Cause it's, it's very difficult and you can see it in the video.
You, it's, it's difficult toread without something there.
Cause it's just white engraving andit's not like it's a, there's dark
underneath, when they engrave it.
So when you rub the sand in there,it's almost like a, like you're taking
like a, like a tracing paper, right?
(11:14):
And you're just rubbing a coal onit and you're doing the same thing.
You're filling those, those gaps inand all of a sudden you can read the
name, you can read the rank, you canread the regiment, whatever that is.
Yeah.
And it makes it a lot more clearto read if you're walking by and
you can see that in our videosthat some have the sand in it.
It's sand from Omaha beach.
Now, not all of these men fellon Omaha beach, but it's pretty
(11:36):
significant timeframe from.
D day to the end of August.
Anyone who basically was killed in theaterin that area was buried there at Normandy.
And you, you have some even later, butit was really in that general vicinity.
And all together, there's 307unknown, and then the 9, 388 total.
(12:03):
But there is a statuethere that's pretty famous.
We weren't able to get close to itbecause that's where the ceremony
took place around and they broughtout over a hundred World War II
vets and they were all right by thestatue, but the statue is beautiful.
It's called the spirit of Americanyouth rising from the waves.
(12:23):
And it is beautiful.
It looks like a young man in the primeof his life, rising from the waves.
And so it really is a reminderof the sacrifice of these
men and this for women there.
But if these men and women in the primeof their life who gave everything for, for
(12:43):
freedom, for America, for a way of life,and they're buried there at France and so
in France and the French people are justso appreciative and respectful of that.
It's a beautiful ceremony,a beautiful cemetery.
Things are very much in rows.
It makes it very easy to navigate.
(13:04):
And there is a kind of a center lakethat you don't see because they put
all of our chairs over this lake.
It's like a reflecting pool.
And then it's like a little rotundain the middle that has some.
words around it.
But basically it's very, it'sa very serene, basic layout.
And it just was such an honor to be there.
(13:26):
We had beautiful weather and theyhad the allied planes flying over
with the with the invasion markings.
So it just felt very, very good.
reminiscent of that day and agreat way to honor these men.
The ceremony was beautiful.
Biden, president Biden spoke, presidentof France spoke French legions of
(13:50):
merit were handed out, which is theequivalent of the hour medal of honor.
Scott (13:55):
Oh, wow.
Jenn (13:56):
And they, he handed out 10, two men who were there on D day.
So that was pretty amazing.
And then at the very end, they playedtaps and the F 35 flew over and
they did the missing man formation,which is my favorite formation.
, it's basically five planes, and they.
Flying out and one, not, not the lead,but the second will shoot straight up.
(14:19):
And it's just a beautifulformation if you've ever seen it.
But with the F 35 doing it, it was,it was like watching like the bat.
mobile.
I was like, it's just, itwas just so impressive.
It was amazing.
It was a couple of times it brought tearsto my eyes and that was one of them.
So in making the video, therewere a couple of graves I wanted
to highlight there becausethere are brothers buried there.
(14:44):
There's uncles and nephews.
There's a father and son there.
And
Scott (14:50):
Now you mentioned that kind of the memorial kind of highlights, men
in the primes, primes of their lives.
However, one of the brothers thatwe're gonna talk about here when he
landed at D-Day was not necessarilyin, in the prime of his life.
He was out there giving it his alland willing to sacrifice everything.
(15:11):
But he specifically was, I think, likethe oldest person to actually land
physically and be on the beach at D Day.
Jenn (15:19):
yeah, so Theodore Roosevelt, the third, who you will hear called
Theodore, Theodore Roosevelt, Jr.
He's technically not a junior.
He's a third was 56 years old
Scott (15:30):
Yeah, so he was a one star.
Jenn (15:31):
and he was a one star.
He's the highest ranking officerto hit the beach on D Day.
And he leads from the front.
He is, he really was part ofthe planning of the evasion.
And so he wanted to be outthere leading logistics.
He dies at 56, a littlebit later, July 12th, 1944.
So about a month and six days after D Day.
(15:52):
And he dies from a heart attack,which It was not uncommon at the time.
You're going to see, we've talkedabout Egan from Masters of the Air.
He will die of a heart attack.
These men who are under a lot ofstress, you can imagine, plus we don't
understand the importance of high bloodpressure at the time and keeping that
under control and a low salt diet andthose things have not been identified
(16:15):
yet as what could cause heart disease.
And yes, Theodore Roosevelt willdie of a heart attack at 56 years
old, and he's buried there atthe Normandy American Cemetery.
And when I talked about the one soldierfrom World War One who's buried there
is his brother, Quentin Roosevelt, whofought in World War One and was killed in
World War One, was also buried in France.
(16:38):
But Theodore is buried at that cemetery,they move Quentin to be beside him.
So you'll see in the video,Theodore has the Medal of Honor
marker with the gold lettering.
Quentin's beside him.
Both of them are crosses.
It says, says Roosevelt's andthey're one of the sets of brothers
that are buried side by side.
There's 45 sets ofbrothers in the cemetery.
(17:00):
33 are buried side by sideand they're one of them.
Scott (17:03):
Yeah.
So it was interesting becausefor our listeners, they actually
are open, my opening vignettethat they've already heard is a
depiction of when Quentin goes down.
And so I, we, I wrote it from theperspective of someone who was flying
with him Quentin had this reputation,and again, this is during world war one.
So not long after his fatherhad finished being president.
(17:23):
And.
He had to fight that reputationof being the president's kid.
And then eventually, I guess hedid overcome that and was actually
a pretty decent pilot was wellrespected amongst his peers.
And I believe even when he died inaerial combat, I think it was the
Germans who had, who had shot himdown, but even those in Germany
(17:45):
actually took notice and expressedtheir almost condolences, respect.
Yeah, respect is probably the best wayto say it because of his father and
because of what they knew that the familyhad endured right at the turn of the
century and coming into into World War
Jenn (18:02):
So he was the youngest son.
He's the youngest sonof the 26th president.
He's the first lieutenant at the time.
So you can imagine he's young, it's beenin less than four years and he's with
the 95th airplane squadron shot down.
During World War one with and this iswhen you get like Bloody Red Baron.
This is when aerial Combat isreally coming into its own.
(18:25):
So he is well respected Because here isbasically the leader of America and his
son is in the fight And you're gonnasee that often You know Kennedy His
brother is also killed in World War Two.
So it is significant that theseleaders of America are, their sons
(18:47):
are also out there in the fight.
And Theodore Roosevelt'sa perfect example of it.
He's a general, butleading from the front,
Scott (18:55):
Yeah, and during world and he had actually been in I believe during
World War one as well But he had Ithink he was he was an army guy, right?
So he wasn't a pilot.
So he was he was somewhere
Jenn (19:05):
4th Infantry
Scott (19:06):
Yeah, so he was somewhere else fighting during World War one.
He ended up getting out He was apolitician did some stuff for a while
like Secretary of the Navy and this thatand the other and during World War Or
right around the turn of World War Twoto came back in and then, he was a one
star and he was out there with Pattonand all this crazy stuff and Here he
is and they'll hear it in the secondvignette that I have because I write it
(19:28):
from the perspective Of his aid, right?
And he's actually like hiding thefact from the army that he's got
arthritis and he needs a cane, so Herehe is Leave it to Teddy Roosevelt's,
I think he was his oldest son.
Is Theodore Roosevelt,was Theodore Roosevelt Jr.
(19:48):
He was the oldest son.
Leave it to him to be just likehis father out there, charging
the beaches of Normandy with acane, and hiding heart problems.
I mean, they're, they'rethose Roosevelt's man.
They, they knew how to justsay bully and keep going.
Jenn (20:04):
very much like his
So it's almost, it's such anhonor to visit their graves.
Scott (20:10):
was really cool.
Jenn (20:11):
Because of the, we love Teddy Roosevelt.
We've covered him on the channel.
We've been to hisinauguration site in Buffalo.
He's the youngest person to everbecome president of the United States.
And again, leading from the frontadventurer and his two sons, his
oldest and his youngest are a Bothgave their lives in the war and
(20:34):
they're buried beside each other thereat that Normandy American Cemetery.
It was an honor to visit both of them.
Scott (20:41):
Each telegram I received in early 1944 held the weight of
a family's heartbreak, a mother'stears, and a father's silent grief.
But nothing prepared me for the day Ireceived the telegrams about the brothers.
It was a warm afternoon whenthe first telegram arrived.
It was brought to me with the usualsense of dread, bracing myself
for the all too normal verbiage.
(21:02):
We regret to inform you that SergeantRobert Nyland has been killed in action.
The words seem to hang in theair, heavy and oppressive.
This being his hometown telegraphoffice for the war effort,
I had actually known Robert.
He was a good man, brave and kind.
My heart ached for his family, but therewas no time to dwell on personal feelings.
Not an hour had passedwhen another telegram came.
(21:24):
My jaw dropped as I read it.
We regret to inform you that LieutenantPreston Nyland has been killed in action.
Brothers, both lost to the ravages of war.
I felt a wave of nausea wash over me.
How could I possibly conveythis to their family?
How could any parent bear such news?
The room seemed to close in around meas I sat at my desk, the two telegrams
(21:47):
lying before me like silent specters.
I thought of their mother and father,both of whom I knew personally,
of the unbearable pain that wouldendure upon receiving these messages.
The weight of my duty pressed downupon me, and I felt the crushing
responsibility of being thebearer of such devastating news.
I took a deep breath, steelingmyself for the task ahead.
(22:09):
The Nyland family deserved to knowthe truth, as painful as it was.
As I prepared to deliver thetelegrams, I thought of all the
families who had received similarmessages, of the countless lives
forever altered by the cruelty of war.
It was a sobering reminder of thesacrifices made by so many, and the
incredible strength of the human spiritin the face of unimaginable loss.
(22:31):
The Nyland Brothers story wouldlater inspire books and movies on
this dark period of world history,a testament to their bravery and the
profound impact of their sacrifice.
But on that day, in the quiet ofmy office, they were simply two
young men who had given their livesfor their country, and my heart
broke for them and their family.
(22:59):
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
And now one of the next set, anotherset of brothers that you actually went
to go visit were the Nyland brothers.
Now these are the brothersthat kind of were part of the
inspiration for Saving Private Ryan.
Jenn (23:12):
Saving Private Ryan is loosely based on these brothers stories
because it was four brothers and oneof them had already was in the Pacific
theater and had been lost at sea.
They thought he was killed in action.
He was actually captured.
And then these two brothers whowere buried at the Normandy American
(23:33):
cemetery one was killed on June 7th.
The other one was killed on June 6th.
So one actually died on D Day.
Robert will die on D Day andthen Preston dies the next day.
And when the mother is getting thesetelegrams thinking that her son
is missing in action and the twoother sons are killed in action,
the army takes notice and doesn'twant to present her with a fourth.
(23:57):
She has four boys out there.
So that's what saving private Ryan isabout to get the fourth boy home, right?
They don't want her to have lostall four of her boys in the war.
And.
That's basically what happens.
The fourth son is found.
And, he fought through the first coupleof days of the Normandy campaign.
And then nine days following D Day,he had gone to the 82nd Airborne
(24:20):
Division to see his brother, Bob.
And once he arrived there, he wastold that Bob had been killed.
And then he was shipped back toEngland and then back to the U.
S.
So it wasn't like somebody had found him.
It wasn't like they searched him.
Scott (24:31):
wasn't quite like the movie where they were looking, they sent a unit to go
Jenn (24:35):
Yes.
He went to find his brother, found outhis brother was killed, and that's when
they're like, we need to send you home.
And so he ends up getting thebronze star for his service.
And then Stephen Ambrose writesabout it in Band of Brothers,
and that's where it goes.
Saving Private Ryan isloosely based on him.
And then the second brother he'simprisoned in the Japanese POW camp.
(24:57):
He was captured May 16th, 1944.
So less than a month before D
Scott (25:01):
Oh, yeah.
So he was already reported.
They already thought he was
Jenn (25:04):
Yes, they already thought he was gone.
And so they did not know thathe was a POW at the time.
So she ended up getting bothof her boys back because he's
liberated May 4th, 1945, right?
About the time the war
is
Scott (25:20):
think he lives till the 80s or something like
Jenn (25:22):
Yeah, he lives them to 1984.
He dies at 71.
So she gets two of her boysback thinking that they're She
wasn't going to get him back.
And so the Niland brothers Prestonand Bob are buried beside each other.
And like I said Bob was killed.
He's part of the 82nd Airborne Division.
He's killed in action on June 6th.
And then Preston, he's part of the 22ndInfantry Regiment and he's killed in
(25:46):
action on June 7th, both at Normandy.
And they're right beside each other.
It was a very, I won't, I hate to usethe term, it was a very popular location.
People seemed to knowabout the Niland brothers.
And so there was a lotof people taking pictures
Scott (26:00):
Yeah.
I mean, it was the samething with the Roosevelts.
Like even when you were out therefilming, there's, like you said, there
was a lot more people there than normal.
So you could see wherethe popular spots were.
The Roosevelt's were popular.
The Nyland brothers were popular.
Some ones, some gents we're goingto talk about a little bit later.
I think some folks were hoveringaround there, but this next one that
you have a personal tie to, thisone you had actually throughout the
(26:24):
day, I think you would actually hitthis one first before the ceremony.
And if I remember correctly, Earlierin the day, they were limiting
who all could visit the graves.
And so they said, they was like, Hey,this is if you have a family tie of sorts.
And so tell us about this, the gravesite that you had a personal tie to.
Jenn (26:45):
Yeah, it was interesting.
The beginning of the day, and I wantto remind people, there were thousands
of people who came to this ceremony.
Thousands.
So at the beginning of the day,they were trying to keep people off.
off of the graves area and lookingfor graves and, and commemorating
graves and being able to, being ableto pay the respect at people's graves.
(27:07):
I didn't want them walking.
And I had a conversation with one of thewomen who were in charge of the cemetery.
And I asked her, why, why are younot letting people visit the graves?
They want to pay their respects.
And she goes, well, we don'twant all the damage that all
these people are going to cause.
And I'm like, bring it on.
bring, let them be visited.
That's what these graves are for.
And I'm like, they never limitpeople visiting graves at Arlington.
(27:31):
You can tell which ones are more traveledthan others, but that is never a deterrent
to stop people from from paying theirrespects to their fellow Americans.
And I think after having a talk withher, plus she just couldn't stop it.
There was so many
people
Scott (27:46):
too many.
And I think even your tour guide,because you were with like a tour
group, they're like, we've, we'venever seen this many people here
Jenn (27:52):
they, yeah, this was the most people they've ever had for a ceremony.
So the beginning of the day, I hada talk with the cemetery keepers
and I told them that I'm connectedto a Harry Wagner, Lieutenant Harry
Wagner from Penn State University.
And Because I was an ROTC student atPenn State University and all of ROTC
(28:14):
students are in one building at PennState called the Wagner building.
And you, you just always knew all ofyour Penn State classes were there.
All your labs were there.
Anything you did military related,checking in, when you're a ROTC
student, you get your books there.
You, you're basically in themilitary, but not in the military.
So all of your.
(28:34):
administration, logistics are all there.
So basically I would say I was at theWagner building pretty much every day.
Scott (28:41):
it's been, that building has been named after him for, 50, 60 years now.
It's, I don't, I don't know whenit was officially dedicated to him.
I don't know if it was in theforties or the fifties, but.
You think about how many peoplehave done Penn State ROTC over the
years, that's how many people havegone through and learned and started
(29:04):
their military careers in the Wagner
Jenn (29:07):
Yes.
So it's dedicated in 1960.
So it's built in 1958, dedicated 1960.
I think they needed adedicated ROTC building.
And they named it for a PennState graduate who was there at
D Day and gave his life at D Day.
. And so to know Harry Edward Wagnerwas a 1941 Penn State graduate and
(29:29):
he served in the 82nd Airborne and hefought to liberated France on D Day.
He was there on June 6th.
He was part of the men who jumpedearly, early morning of June 6th, 1944.
Now, He doesn't get killed on D Day.
He's actually killed about a month lateron June 27th, 1944, but like I said, this
(29:55):
Normandy Cemetery was used pretty muchfor anybody who was killed in the area
from D Day to about the end of August,September and even people still today.
And so it was three weeks afterthe landing behind enemy lines
that he was actually killedin action on June 28th, 1944.
(30:15):
And so his grave is there.
And I was able to find it.
I was able to walk out to it.
with a cemetery representativewho brought sand from Omaha
beach,
Scott (30:26):
she had a little bucket.
Jenn (30:27):
a bucket of sand.
And this is when I say, youcan't really read the markers
unless something is in it.
And then when you put the sand init and you'll see in the video,
how much of a difference it makes.
And so we were able to do that and thenwe were able to leave a Penn State flag.
Each grave was already adorned with anAmerican flag and a French flag, but
I was able to leave a Penn State flagfor where I, it meant a lot to me.
(30:50):
If you're a Penn Stater, youunderstand how much this means.
It meant a lot to me to be able to do
Scott (30:54):
And the listener, you guys have to understand that Jen was dressed up
in this little kind of pinup style.
So she had her hair done up andshe had her clothes were very that
yellow was a yellow polka dot.
Jenn (31:04):
I wore red polka dots
like Rosie the
Scott (31:06):
Red polka dot that day And so she was kind of kind of done up and then
there was like a French TV Station thatwas there that saw you guys going over
and so they actually followed you guysand they can't be basically interviewed
You briefly afterwards and so we foundwe actually found the clip or you did,
and I say we, you went and found it.
Jenn (31:23):
Yeah, it was like local French news.
And what was interesting about it is theytranslate what I'm saying in to French.
But they they film Tom Hanks, because TomHanks was there with Steven Spielberg, of
course, their connection to World War Two,Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan.
But they filmed Tom Hanks andwhat Tom Hanks felt about the day.
(31:44):
And then they cut to me and puttingthe sand in the grave and then
how I felt about that experience.
So I was like, wow, France seesme equivalent to Tom Hanks.
Scott (31:57):
It was just just a neat moment because it was so unexpected,
but it meant a lot to you
so
Jenn (32:01):
it was just, it was one of, probably the biggest honor I got that day.
Probably my whole time there.
It was such an honor to do thatand to be able to do that for him.
Scott (32:14):
Now these, these next couple of folks we're going to talk about,
they're not brothers in the traditionalsense, but they are brothers in
the, the, non traditional sense.
And that's because they are both,part of, were part of Easy Company
as part of the band of brothers,
Jenn (32:29):
Yes, there's four Band of brothers that are buried at this American
Normandy Cemetery and I saw two.
Again, we didn't have a lotof time to visit all of them.
I would have, but oneis depicted in the show.
We saw Terrence Salty Harris, andhe's depicted in the show when they do
(32:52):
theirthe mutiny in Alderborn and Theydon't want to be under anymore, and
Harris is transferred out of the unit.
Scott (33:01):
Yeah.
So if you, if you've, lots of folkshave seen Band of Brothers, if you
remember that scene where the NCOs aregetting together and they're saying,
we're not going to follow Sobel.
So we're all going to sign thesememos or the sign this letter
essentially stating and we're goingto route it up to chain of command.
And then it cuts to the scene with thecolonel, I forget the colonel's name.
Band of Brothers (33:18):
I ought to have you all shot.
This is nothing less than an actof mutiny while we prepare for
the goddamn invasion of Europe.
Sergeant Harris.
Sir.
Turn in your stripes, collect your gear.
You are hereby transferredout of my regiment.
Sir.
Get out.
Scott (33:35):
But he's like, he's I have to have all you guys shot.
We're, we're preparing for thegoddamn invasion to Normandy.
He's yelling at theseguys, letting them have it.
And then the first person he cutsto that the camera cuts to, he goes,
Sergeant Harris, turn your stripes.
You are transferred out of my division.
And that's him.
Jenn (33:50):
that's him.
Terrence Harris is 23 years old.
He was a part of Easy Company.
He wasn't after that, but he doesmake the jump on D Day, and he is
still part of the 101st Airbornebut he ends up losing his life.
He is given the
It was an honor to visit him there.
So yes, he is depicted in Band ofBrothers and he is, he is buried there
(34:15):
at , the Normandy American cemetery.
And the other person we saw was
Scott (34:20):
Everett Gray.
Jenn (34:22):
Gray and he was 22 from California.
It's just, he, he's killed June 8th.
It's just so amazing tome the ages of these men.
That's why it was such a, when thatstatue talks about the, the sweet,
Youth, like giving the, giving youryouth, like the spirit of American
youth it's just such a sacrifice.
(34:43):
You're giving your youth away.
And like I said, Terrencewas 23, Gray's 22.
I just, these men never,
did they experience marriage?
They experienced children, like theyget so much they never got to do.
And for me to be there and topay my respects to them, I just,
I'm just so honored to have done
Scott (35:05):
Yeah, when you think about it, it really does put things in
perspective because there's thousandsupon thousands of men that lost
their lives during World War II.
And the vast majority of them areprobably going to be in their 20s, and
so when you, when you visit them overthere in the location, where they lost
their life in a place like Normandy.
It's just that more impactful.
(35:25):
Now, the last couple of folks,they are not brothers, but I
would say, I would say that theywere probably sisters in a sense.
Jenn (35:33):
So you're going to have four women in the cemetery, which I love
because it's just so important.
Women represent they foughtin their respective areas.
You have nurses and these womenwere part of the six triple eight.
So the four women at this the American,the Normandy American Cemetery, three
(35:54):
or six, triple eight, one as a nurse.
And so I visit two womenfrom the six, triple eight
Scott (35:58):
know, 6888 was, we've talked about them before.
We actually probably multiple times.
We have, I think we have a full anotherpodcast episode that if I can find
it, I'll put it in the show notes,but they were, the 6888 was the first,
Jenn (36:11):
African American women army corps, and it was a central
postal directory battalion.
Scott (36:18):
So they were brought in to help with this postal backlog that whatever
mail unit couldn't figure it out.
Jenn (36:25):
years.
It was, I think it was like a year,two years of backlog of mail to
service members out there in Europe.
Scott (36:34):
Yeah so not only was this the first all black female unit, right?
So first black female officer,this, this first of its kind, right?
And think about the era inwhich they are operating, right?
So they get there, theysend them over to what?
We may not think right that theoutsider who's not involved in the
(36:55):
military and we talked about thisWhen we talked about the six triple
a before Outside the military you'relike, well, what's the big deal with
the postal battalion like some backlogmail when you're deployed overseas?
And especially for these men's whowere there for years on end, right?
Some of the bandit brotherswere there for a couple
Jenn (37:10):
Yeah.
Not knowing when you're going to come
Scott (37:11):
not knowing when you're going to come home.
They're writing letters home.
They're hoping to receive letters whereverthey are That, you and I have been on,
nine month deployments before and gettinga care package or a letter, right?
And nowadays you can get emails.
But when we first came in and whenyou, I first came in, email was not as
common in getting a letter from homewith a picture or whatever it is, was
(37:34):
it just lifted your spirits so muchand think about, this is world war two.
So letters were the only option.
That's the only way they couldhear from their loved ones, from
their friends, from whatever.
And this unit comes in and doessome amazing things to turn things
Jenn (37:52):
Within months.
So they come go to England firstwithin months, they clear out all
the mail in England within a couple
months,
Scott (37:59):
takes three, they were expecting to, for it to take six to
nine months and they did in three.
Jenn (38:03):
three.
And so they were so effective.
They sent them to France tothe backlog of mail in France.
And again, so effective.
And they just, really excelledin what they were called to do.
And just really, I think just made womenin the military, African American in
the women's military made them look soprofessional and so good at their job.
Scott (38:26):
I found a video online and it was, I think it was like Hollywood recognizing
women of the 6888 or something like that.
And so it's I don't know if it'sWalter Cronkite and Terry Crews,
these kind of well known actors andfolks narrating this video, and it
talks about an interaction that theunit had with the visiting general.
And this visiting general comes in, andso Major Adams Charity Adams, she was the
(38:50):
first black female commissioned officer.
She was in charge of this, this unit.
The general visited, She was supposedto have her unit out there for kind of
inspection, so he could see, look and seeit in their typical inspection uniforms
or whatever it was, and he gave her a hardtime because her entire unit wasn't there.
Well, and she was explaining,well, they had their group.
(39:10):
How we've been clearing this backlog isbecause we've been working in shifts and
basically working 24 hours a day But inthree shifts throughout the day, right
and then for some reason they just whoeverwas doing it before I wasn't doing that
and so she pushed back and he threatenedhe's oh, and Again, this is the 40s.
He threatened to have a white officercome in come and take over the unit.
(39:33):
And she, she told him right then andthere, she said, over my dead body.
And what I heard again, this was in thevideo about this general coming back
later, I think a year later or somethinglike that, after they had already turned
everything around, they were sent off tothe next spot to clear more mail somewhere
else, was he actually came back and sawhow well she had done, and actually.
(39:56):
recognized her for that, recognizedher excellence and said that
he was wrong the first time.
And I just like, of the time of that era,that's to me, that's so indicative of
what can be accomplished in the military.
Even then that's, that's in the cruxof that's before really the civil
rights movements and all that stuff.
But in the military, you and I havetalked about It things just matter
(40:20):
a little bit less when you're in thesame uniform you're doing the same
thing You hold yourself to the samestandards If you accomplish the mission
and yet other person doesn't or ifif you're holding yourself to that
standard you're meeting the missionLeadership is going to be like, yeah,
I don't care what you look like.
I
Jenn (40:34):
Mm hmm.
Scott (40:34):
I don't care what your skin color is We talked about it with tuskegee
airmen that was a big thing for thetuskegee airmen and the military.
It's one of the things that I loveYou is a place for that to thrive and
for that to really demonstrate itself.
And so we've talked a lot about them,but let's say that the first first
(40:54):
with Sergeant Dolores Brown, I believe.
Jenn (40:56):
So what had happened was there was a Jeep accident.
There were three of these womenfrom the 6888 that were in a jeep
together and they had a jeep accident.
Two of them will die on July 8th, 1945.
And Dolores Brown, she'lldie July 13th, 1945.
She holds on for five days, butthen will succumb to her injuries.
So again, this is almost ayear and a month after D Day.
(41:20):
So they're still utilizing thisCemetery 'cause people are still
over in the areas and doing work.
And again, they asked the nextof kin, would you like them to
be repatriated back to America?
Or would you like them to beburied here with their brothers
and sisters in arms in France?
And that's what they decided.
So Dolores Brown willdie on July 13th, 1945.
(41:41):
You have Mary Barlow who would die.
died July 8th, 1945, and Mary Bankston,who died July 8th, 1945, as well.
And they're all, I have23, 22 and 24 years old.
Scott (41:57):
It was, it was really just neat to be able to show what these women did and
show that they're buried next to the menwho were right there in, in the theater
or the, the theater of war with them.
Jenn (42:09):
And there's 147 African Americans in the Normandy American Cemetery.
There's 20 Native Americans there.
So it is, again, I like therepresentation it has of World War II.
It is a World War II cemetery,but the representation of America
and the people who were servingthe country at the time is there.
Scott (42:31):
Yeah.
So it was, The video is great.
I was so glad you got to get outthere and see the people that you did.
You really, you made the most ofit because there's a lot of people
there and you were a little bitbeholden to your tour group sometimes.
So you did, I think you did a great job.
And for folks who are curious whenthis, by the time this airs, that
video will have already posted.
So I encourage you guysto go check it out.
Jenn (42:52):
I will say it is an honor to go there.
If you're an American, And you wantto be in a place where America is so
honored and so respected by a country.
The people of Normandy respectand love Americans and the way
that cemetery is cared for and theway I felt in that cemetery being
(43:16):
able to honor my fellow Americans.
It was just a feeling thatI am, I was proud to do.
It can't be replicated.
It's there waiting for youif you'd like to go visit.
But it is only Americans in that grave,in that cemetery, and it is an honor
to, as an American, to visit themthere in their final resting place.
Scott (43:41):
As a general's aide, I had seen many officers come and go, but
Major Charity Adams was different.
Not only was she the first Black womanto become an officer in the Women's Army
Auxiliary Corps, but she also commandedthe 6888th Central Postal Directory
Battalion, an all Black, all female unittasked with the monumental job of sorting
through a massive backlog of mail for U.
(44:03):
S.
troops in Europe during World War II.
The job was crucial for morale,and the General was keen to see
how this unique battalion wasfaring with such a monumental task.
We arrived at the PostalFacility in France.
The General's expression wasstern, his eyes scanning the
rows of women working diligently.
Major Adams was at the forefront, herpresence commanding yet approachable.
(44:26):
She greeted us with a saluteand a confident smile.
Welcome, General, she said.
We are honored to have you here today.
The General nodded curtly,clearly reserving judgment.
Show me what you've accomplished, he said.
As we walked through the facility, Icouldn't help but notice the efficiency
and precision with which the women worked.
The rows of mailbags had, hadOnce overwhelmed, the space
(44:48):
were now neatly organized.
The women moved with purpose,their faces focused and determined.
Major Adams explained their process,detailing how they had streamlined
the sorting and delivery operationsworking in phases 24 hours a day.
We started with nearly 4 millionpieces of undelivered mail, she said.
Now we're down to just a fractionof that, with new mail going out
almost as soon as it comes in.
(45:10):
The general listened intently,his expression softening as
he observed the progress.
It was clear that Major Adams and herbattalion were far exceedingly busy.
After the tour, theGeneral pulled me aside.
This is impressive work, he admitted.
I had my doubts about an allblack, all female unit handling
such a task, but they've proventhemselves more than capable.
(45:32):
Later that day, as we preparedto leave, the General approached
Major Adams once more.
Major Adams, he said.
His tone now warm and respectful, I wantto commend you and your battalion for
the outstanding job you've done here.
You've not only met butsurpassed my expectations.
The work you've done is critical to themorale of our troops, and you should
be proud of what you've accomplished.
(45:53):
Major Adams stood a little bittaller, her eyes shining with pride.
Thank you, General, she replied.
As we departed, I couldn't helpbut feel a deep sense of admiration
for Major Adams and the womenof the 6888, as it became known.
They had faced immense challenges andskepticism, but had risen above it all
to perform their duty with excellence.
And who knows, maybe they'll inspirefuture soldiers to join and serve
(46:17):
when they hear of the amazing work.
They did in these dungywarehouses of World War II France.
Thank you for listening totalk with issue podcasts.
And please reach out to us.
And if you want to chat with us,you can go to the history road trip.
com.
That's the history road trip.
com.
And, and that will be a place thatwe can actually converse a little
(46:39):
bit about particular episodes.
So I'm going to, and not just withus, you can chat with other people who
are listening to the podcast as well.
So go to the history road trip.
com.
Now, if you know someone elsethat might enjoy this podcast,
please share it with them.
them, especially if you think today'stopic would interest them, shoot them
a text and tell them to look us up.
We rely on you, our community to grow,and we appreciate you all every day.
(47:01):
We'll talk to you next time.
Jenn (47:02):
Thank you.
We were flying high above the French countryside on July
14th, 1918, a day that wouldforever be etched in my memory.
The sun was just beginningto rise, casting a golden hue
across the landscape below.
I glanced over at Quentin Roosevelt,the youngest son of the former
president, who was flying hisNewport 28, the fighter beside me.
(00:27):
His face was set with determination,a look I had come to recognize
during our many sorties together.
Quentin and I had become fast friendssince he joined the 95th Air squadron.
Despite his famous lineage, hewas just another pilot to us.
Eager to do his part in the war effort.
We had flown numerous missions together,each one more perilous than the last,
but today, something felt different.
(00:50):
There was an air of tensionthat I just couldn't shake.
We had been tasked with a patrolover the Marne River in an area
teeming with German activity.
Our orders were simple.
Engage and disrupt their operations.
As we neared our patrol zone,I spotted a formation of German
Fokker deep in the forest.
(01:12):
There were, they were outnumbering us,but we had faced worse odds before.
The air became thick with the sound ofmachine gun fire as we engaged the enemy.
Quentin and I maneuvered ourplanes with precision, weaving
through the sky in deadly dance.
I saw Quentin take down one of the Germanfighters, a plume of smoke trailing from
its engine as it spiraled to the ground.
He gave me a quick thumbs up, a briefmoment of triumph amidst the chaos.
(01:34):
But then, out of the corner ofmy eye, I saw a German fighter
bearing down on Quentin's six.
I shouted a warning.
It was morning, but the roar ofour engines drowned out my voice.
The enemy pilot opened fire andI watched in horror as Quinten's
plane shuddered under the impact.
Smoke and flames erupted fromhis engine and his fighter
began to lose altitude rapidly.
Bail out, I yelled, hopingagainst hope that he could
(01:55):
hear me, but it was too late.
His plane was in a steep dive and Isaw him struggle to regain control.
The ground rushed up to meet himand with a sickening thud, his
plane crashed into the field below.
I wanted to go after him.
And to see if there was any chance hehad survived that the battle raged on
around me, I had to keep fighting, knowingthat my own life hung in the balance.
It was only after me and the othershad driven off the remaining German
(02:18):
fighters that I was able to break awayand make my way to the crash site.
When I arrived, my worstfears were confirmed.
Quentin's plane was a twisted wreckand there was no sign of movement.
I knew that his death would be devastatingblow to his family, especially to his
father who had already endured so much.
Quentin Roosevelt died that day, buthis bravery and spirit lived on in
(02:38):
the hearts of those who knew him.
He had given his life for hiscountry, a sacrifice that would be
remembered long after the war was over.
The news of Quentin's death spreadquickly, and the rumor was that
even the German pilots who engagedus that day paid their respects.
His loss was felt deeply byall who knew him, a poignant
reminder of the true cost of war.
And as I took to the skies oncemore, I carried with me the
(03:01):
memory of Quentin Roosevelt, abrave pilot and a true friend.
(03:22):
Welcome to Talk With History.
I'm your host, Scott, herewith my wife and historian,
Jenn (03:27):
Hello.
Scott (03:28):
On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired
world travels, YouTube channeljourney, and examine history
through deeper conversations withthe curious, the explorers, and
the history lovers out there.
Now, Jen, this will be, I think,our second Normandy podcast, but
before we get into that, I do havesomething for our listeners, some news.
(03:51):
You guys may have heard thatI'm trying some stuff out.
I've got stuff coming down the pipedifferent Potential premium podcasts
and newsletter stuff I say all of thatbecause we actually have one single place
now where if you want to Talk to us ifyou want to chat with us if you want to
comment on these podcasts you can go tothe history road trip comm and there's
(04:12):
a place for us to chat there So that'sgonna that'll be my centralized place for
anybody who wants to ask questions aboutthe podcast or Who wants to say hey, I
love this part of it or whatever it is Youcan find us over at the history road trip.
com And there's a chat function overthere And we'll have just a running
chat and you can see other peopletalking about the episode as well.
(04:34):
So it's a really neat thing thatwe're starting up that's part of
this new kind of newsletter and extrapodcasts that's coming in the future.
So if you want to chat withus about these episodes.
What I'm going to do is after eachone airs, I'll start a running
chat about what people thoughtabout the most recent episode.
You can drop us a line over there.
(04:55):
You can say hello.
You can follow along with other thingsthat I'll be publishing over there more.
in depth travel type stuff.
But also a place for us to chatwith our podcast listeners.
So because there's no universal comments,you can't comment on a podcast in
Apple podcast or anything like that.
That will be the place for, forfolks to come in and chat with us.
Jenn (05:13):
sounds great.
Scott (05:14):
Yeah.
So that's the history road trip.
com.
That's the history road trip.
com.
Jenn (05:21):
The History Road, trip
Scott (05:22):
The, the, the history road trip dot com.
So we, last week we talkedabout gold beach, right?
That was your first day at Normandy andon your second day during, like on actual
D day, the actual 80th anniversary, but Ithink it was, I believe it was before you
(05:43):
went to the kind of ceremonies and stuff.
You went over to the Normandy.
American Cemetery, and you gotto visit some, some gravesites
of some pretty well known
historical
figures over there.
Jenn (05:55):
So that actually was the day of the 80th ceremony.
It was.
Because there were so many headsof state and government officials
that were going to be at this 80thanniversary ceremony at the Normandy
American Cemetery, we had to be thereabout Five six hours before it started.
(06:16):
We had to go through security,go through tents, have everything
checked, have our credentials with us.
And so I had a lot of time at thatcemetery and and made a video from there,
which I wanted to do anyway, but becausethis was such a busy, crowded weekend,
the first day we were in Normandy, wewere supposed to go to the Normandy
(06:38):
American cemetery, but it was, they closedit because so many people were there.
Scott (06:42):
Okay.
Jenn (06:43):
So I was able to do it that day.
So it's, I'm there the dayof the 80th anniversary,
Scott (06:48):
Yeah, you were there on June 6,
Jenn (06:54):
more significant when I got to put sand from Omaha Beach into a specific
grave that we'll talk about my connectionto It made it that much more significant
to be able to do that that day.
So yes, I'm there on theactual anniversary of D Day
Scott (07:13):
it was, it was really neat.
And we're going to talk about these not inexactly the order you got to visit them.
And then we'll, we'll talk about theone tie you have to one of the graves
there that you actually got to, and,and, and rub sand in and, and some
of the local news coverage, I'llcall it that, that came out of that.
But first we're going to talkthere's a fair amount and
you bring it up in the video.
(07:34):
There's a fair amount of siblingsessentially that are, that are buried
Jenn (07:38):
well first let's talk about what it is.
So this is a Americancemetery in in France.
And it is run by America.
And even though it's not Americansoil, they have plants and things
that are indigenous to America.
And it is all paid for by Americans.
(07:58):
So there's only Americansburied in the cemetery.
Scott (08:01):
realize that
Jenn (08:02):
And it was established pretty shortly after D Day, so June 8th, 1944.
So as you can, Probably imaginea lot of men were dying and
they needed to bury these men.
And so the Normandy American cemeteryactually overlooks Omaha beach.
It's the bluff above Omaha beach.
(08:22):
It covers 172 acres.
It contains 9, 388 burials.
All Americans, all butone is from World War II.
And we'll talk about that one.
That's from World War
I.
Scott (08:37):
the only
Jenn (08:38):
He's the only
one.
Everybody else is from World War II.
Now, there's been a recent burial asrecent, I'd say 2018, who was the twin
brother of one of the men who wereburied there from the D Day timeframe.
But he also served in World War II,and he wanted to be with his brother.
So there's some specifics,even if you want to be buried
Scott (09:00):
Yeah, so I actually went to the website and I looked it up.
The most, the most recent burial, thisis when I checked the website like a week
ago, was actually in October of 2022.
And it was he would, I mean, they saidAir Force, but it was Army Air Corps
back then, but they found him and theyburied him almost 80 years, almost,
78 years, after, after he passed.
Jenn (09:22):
where they asked all next of kin, everybody who's buried there,
they've asked, they asked all nextof kin, would you rather have Your
family member Repatriated back homeor buried with his comrades here on
French soil in an American cemetery
Yes, so families everybody who's buriedthere besides the unknowns are were
(09:42):
agreed to have them buried there So again,it's established two days after D Day.
It is a pretty Amazing placewhat's interesting about the
Normandy American Cemetery?
Is there only really two typesof, I would say, markers?
(10:02):
It's really just crosses and starsof David, because the army at the
time only recognized Latin crossesfor Protestants and Catholics.
And then there's stars of Davidfor the, for Jewish religion.
And so these are the only threereligions recognized at the
time by the United States army.
So no other types of markers are present.
(10:23):
Okay.
So that's all you see
Scott (10:25):
So I actually noticed that, but I didn't understand the reasoning why.
So that's neat.
Jenn (10:29):
It's very neat.
Now, you will see some markershave the gold Lettering those
will be Medal of Honor recipientsand then everything is in white.
It's white marble with white etchingof the actual marker connotation names
and specific dates and regiments.
But what people do is they take sandand we'll rub it in to that marker.
(10:54):
So that's what you see sometimes whenyou're able to read it a lot more clearly
.Scott: Cause it's, it's very difficult and you can see it in the video.
You, it's, it's difficult toread without something there.
Cause it's just white engraving andit's not like it's a, there's dark
underneath, when they engrave it.
So when you rub the sand in there,it's almost like a, like you're taking
like a, like a tracing paper, right?
(11:14):
And you're just rubbing a coal onit and you're doing the same thing.
You're filling those, those gaps inand all of a sudden you can read the
name, you can read the rank, you canread the regiment, whatever that is.
Yeah.
And it makes it a lot more clearto read if you're walking by and
you can see that in our videosthat some have the sand in it.
It's sand from Omaha beach.
Now, not all of these men fellon Omaha beach, but it's pretty
(11:36):
significant timeframe from.
D day to the end of August.
Anyone who basically was killed in theaterin that area was buried there at Normandy.
And you, you have some even later, butit was really in that general vicinity.
And all together, there's 307unknown, and then the 9, 388 total.
(12:03):
But there is a statuethere that's pretty famous.
We weren't able to get close to itbecause that's where the ceremony
took place around and they broughtout over a hundred World War II
vets and they were all right by thestatue, but the statue is beautiful.
It's called the spirit of Americanyouth rising from the waves.
(12:23):
And it is beautiful.
It looks like a young man in the primeof his life, rising from the waves.
And so it really is a reminderof the sacrifice of these
men and this for women there.
But if these men and women in the primeof their life who gave everything for, for
(12:43):
freedom, for America, for a way of life,and they're buried there at France and so
in France and the French people are justso appreciative and respectful of that.
It's a beautiful ceremony,a beautiful cemetery.
Things are very much in rows.
It makes it very easy to navigate.
(13:04):
And there is a kind of a center lakethat you don't see because they put
all of our chairs over this lake.
It's like a reflecting pool.
And then it's like a little rotundain the middle that has some.
words around it.
But basically it's very, it'sa very serene, basic layout.
And it just was such an honor to be there.
(13:26):
We had beautiful weather and theyhad the allied planes flying over
with the with the invasion markings.
So it just felt very, very good.
reminiscent of that day and agreat way to honor these men.
The ceremony was beautiful.
Biden, president Biden spoke, presidentof France spoke French legions of
(13:50):
merit were handed out, which is theequivalent of the hour medal of honor.
Scott (13:55):
Oh, wow.
Jenn (13:56):
And they, he handed out 10, two men who were there on D day.
So that was pretty amazing.
And then at the very end, they playedtaps and the F 35 flew over and
they did the missing man formation,which is my favorite formation.
, it's basically five planes, and they.
Flying out and one, not, not the lead,but the second will shoot straight up.
(14:19):
And it's just a beautifulformation if you've ever seen it.
But with the F 35 doing it, it was,it was like watching like the bat.
mobile.
I was like, it's just, itwas just so impressive.
It was amazing.
It was a couple of times it brought tearsto my eyes and that was one of them.
So in making the video, therewere a couple of graves I wanted
to highlight there becausethere are brothers buried there.
(14:44):
There's uncles and nephews.
There's a father and son there.
And
Scott (14:50):
Now you mentioned that kind of the memorial kind of highlights, men
in the primes, primes of their lives.
However, one of the brothers thatwe're gonna talk about here when he
landed at D-Day was not necessarilyin, in the prime of his life.
He was out there giving it his alland willing to sacrifice everything.
(15:11):
But he specifically was, I think, likethe oldest person to actually land
physically and be on the beach at D Day.
Jenn (15:19):
yeah, so Theodore Roosevelt, the third, who you will hear called
Theodore, Theodore Roosevelt, Jr.
He's technically not a junior.
He's a third was 56 years old
Scott (15:30):
Yeah, so he was a one star.
Jenn (15:31):
and he was a one star.
He's the highest ranking officerto hit the beach on D Day.
And he leads from the front.
He is, he really was part ofthe planning of the evasion.
And so he wanted to be outthere leading logistics.
He dies at 56, a littlebit later, July 12th, 1944.
So about a month and six days after D Day.
(15:52):
And he dies from a heart attack,which It was not uncommon at the time.
You're going to see, we've talkedabout Egan from Masters of the Air.
He will die of a heart attack.
These men who are under a lot ofstress, you can imagine, plus we don't
understand the importance of high bloodpressure at the time and keeping that
under control and a low salt diet andthose things have not been identified
(16:15):
yet as what could cause heart disease.
And yes, Theodore Roosevelt willdie of a heart attack at 56 years
old, and he's buried there atthe Normandy American Cemetery.
And when I talked about the one soldierfrom World War One who's buried there
is his brother, Quentin Roosevelt, whofought in World War One and was killed in
World War One, was also buried in France.
(16:38):
But Theodore is buried at that cemetery,they move Quentin to be beside him.
So you'll see in the video,Theodore has the Medal of Honor
marker with the gold lettering.
Quentin's beside him.
Both of them are crosses.
It says, says Roosevelt's andthey're one of the sets of brothers
that are buried side by side.
There's 45 sets ofbrothers in the cemetery.
(17:00):
33 are buried side by sideand they're one of them.
Scott (17:03):
Yeah.
So it was interesting becausefor our listeners, they actually
are open, my opening vignettethat they've already heard is a
depiction of when Quentin goes down.
And so I, we, I wrote it from theperspective of someone who was flying
with him Quentin had this reputation,and again, this is during world war one.
So not long after his fatherhad finished being president.
(17:23):
And.
He had to fight that reputationof being the president's kid.
And then eventually, I guess hedid overcome that and was actually
a pretty decent pilot was wellrespected amongst his peers.
And I believe even when he died inaerial combat, I think it was the
Germans who had, who had shot himdown, but even those in Germany
(17:45):
actually took notice and expressedtheir almost condolences, respect.
Yeah, respect is probably the best wayto say it because of his father and
because of what they knew that the familyhad endured right at the turn of the
century and coming into into World War
Jenn (18:02):
So he was the youngest son.
He's the youngest sonof the 26th president.
He's the first lieutenant at the time.
So you can imagine he's young, it's beenin less than four years and he's with
the 95th airplane squadron shot down.
During World War one with and this iswhen you get like Bloody Red Baron.
This is when aerial Combat isreally coming into its own.
(18:25):
So he is well respected Because here isbasically the leader of America and his
son is in the fight And you're gonnasee that often You know Kennedy His
brother is also killed in World War Two.
So it is significant that theseleaders of America are, their sons
(18:47):
are also out there in the fight.
And Theodore Roosevelt'sa perfect example of it.
He's a general, butleading from the front,
Scott (18:55):
Yeah, and during world and he had actually been in I believe during
World War one as well But he had Ithink he was he was an army guy, right?
So he wasn't a pilot.
So he was he was somewhere
Jenn (19:05):
4th Infantry
Scott (19:06):
Yeah, so he was somewhere else fighting during World War one.
He ended up getting out He was apolitician did some stuff for a while
like Secretary of the Navy and this thatand the other and during World War Or
right around the turn of World War Twoto came back in and then, he was a one
star and he was out there with Pattonand all this crazy stuff and Here he
is and they'll hear it in the secondvignette that I have because I write it
(19:28):
from the perspective Of his aid, right?
And he's actually like hiding thefact from the army that he's got
arthritis and he needs a cane, so Herehe is Leave it to Teddy Roosevelt's,
I think he was his oldest son.
Is Theodore Roosevelt,was Theodore Roosevelt Jr.
(19:48):
He was the oldest son.
Leave it to him to be just likehis father out there, charging
the beaches of Normandy with acane, and hiding heart problems.
I mean, they're, they'rethose Roosevelt's man.
They, they knew how to justsay bully and keep going.
Jenn (20:04):
very much like his
So it's almost, it's such anhonor to visit their graves.
Scott (20:10):
was really cool.
Jenn (20:11):
Because of the, we love Teddy Roosevelt.
We've covered him on the channel.
We've been to hisinauguration site in Buffalo.
He's the youngest person to everbecome president of the United States.
And again, leading from the frontadventurer and his two sons, his
oldest and his youngest are a Bothgave their lives in the war and
(20:34):
they're buried beside each other thereat that Normandy American Cemetery.
It was an honor to visit both of them.
Scott (20:41):
Each telegram I received in early 1944 held the weight of
a family's heartbreak, a mother'stears, and a father's silent grief.
But nothing prepared me for the day Ireceived the telegrams about the brothers.
It was a warm afternoon whenthe first telegram arrived.
It was brought to me with the usualsense of dread, bracing myself
for the all too normal verbiage.
(21:02):
We regret to inform you that SergeantRobert Nyland has been killed in action.
The words seem to hang in theair, heavy and oppressive.
This being his hometown telegraphoffice for the war effort,
I had actually known Robert.
He was a good man, brave and kind.
My heart ached for his family, but therewas no time to dwell on personal feelings.
Not an hour had passedwhen another telegram came.
(21:24):
My jaw dropped as I read it.
We regret to inform you that LieutenantPreston Nyland has been killed in action.
Brothers, both lost to the ravages of war.
I felt a wave of nausea wash over me.
How could I possibly conveythis to their family?
How could any parent bear such news?
The room seemed to close in around meas I sat at my desk, the two telegrams
(21:47):
lying before me like silent specters.
I thought of their mother and father,both of whom I knew personally,
of the unbearable pain that wouldendure upon receiving these messages.
The weight of my duty pressed downupon me, and I felt the crushing
responsibility of being thebearer of such devastating news.
I took a deep breath, steelingmyself for the task ahead.
(22:09):
The Nyland family deserved to knowthe truth, as painful as it was.
As I prepared to deliver thetelegrams, I thought of all the
families who had received similarmessages, of the countless lives
forever altered by the cruelty of war.
It was a sobering reminder of thesacrifices made by so many, and the
incredible strength of the human spiritin the face of unimaginable loss.
(22:31):
The Nyland Brothers story wouldlater inspire books and movies on
this dark period of world history,a testament to their bravery and the
profound impact of their sacrifice.
But on that day, in the quiet ofmy office, they were simply two
young men who had given their livesfor their country, and my heart
broke for them and their family.
(22:59):
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
And now one of the next set, anotherset of brothers that you actually went
to go visit were the Nyland brothers.
Now these are the brothersthat kind of were part of the
inspiration for Saving Private Ryan.
Jenn (23:12):
Saving Private Ryan is loosely based on these brothers stories
because it was four brothers and oneof them had already was in the Pacific
theater and had been lost at sea.
They thought he was killed in action.
He was actually captured.
And then these two brothers whowere buried at the Normandy American
(23:33):
cemetery one was killed on June 7th.
The other one was killed on June 6th.
So one actually died on D Day.
Robert will die on D Day andthen Preston dies the next day.
And when the mother is getting thesetelegrams thinking that her son
is missing in action and the twoother sons are killed in action,
the army takes notice and doesn'twant to present her with a fourth.
(23:57):
She has four boys out there.
So that's what saving private Ryan isabout to get the fourth boy home, right?
They don't want her to have lostall four of her boys in the war.
And.
That's basically what happens.
The fourth son is found.
And, he fought through the first coupleof days of the Normandy campaign.
And then nine days following D Day,he had gone to the 82nd Airborne
(24:20):
Division to see his brother, Bob.
And once he arrived there, he wastold that Bob had been killed.
And then he was shipped back toEngland and then back to the U.
S.
So it wasn't like somebody had found him.
It wasn't like they searched him.
Scott (24:31):
wasn't quite like the movie where they were looking, they sent a unit to go
Jenn (24:35):
Yes.
He went to find his brother, found outhis brother was killed, and that's when
they're like, we need to send you home.
And so he ends up getting thebronze star for his service.
And then Stephen Ambrose writesabout it in Band of Brothers,
and that's where it goes.
Saving Private Ryan isloosely based on him.
And then the second brother he'simprisoned in the Japanese POW camp.
(24:57):
He was captured May 16th, 1944.
So less than a month before D
Scott (25:01):
Oh, yeah.
So he was already reported.
They already thought he was
Jenn (25:04):
Yes, they already thought he was gone.
And so they did not know thathe was a POW at the time.
So she ended up getting bothof her boys back because he's
liberated May 4th, 1945, right?
About the time the war
is
Scott (25:20):
think he lives till the 80s or something like
Jenn (25:22):
Yeah, he lives them to 1984.
He dies at 71.
So she gets two of her boysback thinking that they're She
wasn't going to get him back.
And so the Niland brothers Prestonand Bob are buried beside each other.
And like I said Bob was killed.
He's part of the 82nd Airborne Division.
He's killed in action on June 6th.
And then Preston, he's part of the 22ndInfantry Regiment and he's killed in
(25:46):
action on June 7th, both at Normandy.
And they're right beside each other.
It was a very, I won't, I hate to usethe term, it was a very popular location.
People seemed to knowabout the Niland brothers.
And so there was a lotof people taking pictures
Scott (26:00):
Yeah.
I mean, it was the samething with the Roosevelts.
Like even when you were out therefilming, there's, like you said, there
was a lot more people there than normal.
So you could see wherethe popular spots were.
The Roosevelt's were popular.
The Nyland brothers were popular.
Some ones, some gents we're goingto talk about a little bit later.
I think some folks were hoveringaround there, but this next one that
you have a personal tie to, thisone you had actually throughout the
(26:24):
day, I think you would actually hitthis one first before the ceremony.
And if I remember correctly, Earlierin the day, they were limiting
who all could visit the graves.
And so they said, they was like, Hey,this is if you have a family tie of sorts.
And so tell us about this, the gravesite that you had a personal tie to.
Jenn (26:45):
Yeah, it was interesting.
The beginning of the day, and I wantto remind people, there were thousands
of people who came to this ceremony.
Thousands.
So at the beginning of the day,they were trying to keep people off.
off of the graves area and lookingfor graves and, and commemorating
graves and being able to, being ableto pay the respect at people's graves.
(27:07):
I didn't want them walking.
And I had a conversation with one of thewomen who were in charge of the cemetery.
And I asked her, why, why are younot letting people visit the graves?
They want to pay their respects.
And she goes, well, we don'twant all the damage that all
these people are going to cause.
And I'm like, bring it on.
bring, let them be visited.
That's what these graves are for.
And I'm like, they never limitpeople visiting graves at Arlington.
(27:31):
You can tell which ones are more traveledthan others, but that is never a deterrent
to stop people from from paying theirrespects to their fellow Americans.
And I think after having a talk withher, plus she just couldn't stop it.
There was so many
people
Scott (27:46):
too many.
And I think even your tour guide,because you were with like a tour
group, they're like, we've, we'venever seen this many people here
Jenn (27:52):
they, yeah, this was the most people they've ever had for a ceremony.
So the beginning of the day, I hada talk with the cemetery keepers
and I told them that I'm connectedto a Harry Wagner, Lieutenant Harry
Wagner from Penn State University.
And Because I was an ROTC student atPenn State University and all of ROTC
(28:14):
students are in one building at PennState called the Wagner building.
And you, you just always knew all ofyour Penn State classes were there.
All your labs were there.
Anything you did military related,checking in, when you're a ROTC
student, you get your books there.
You, you're basically in themilitary, but not in the military.
So all of your.
(28:34):
administration, logistics are all there.
So basically I would say I was at theWagner building pretty much every day.
Scott (28:41):
it's been, that building has been named after him for, 50, 60 years now.
It's, I don't, I don't know whenit was officially dedicated to him.
I don't know if it was in theforties or the fifties, but.
You think about how many peoplehave done Penn State ROTC over the
years, that's how many people havegone through and learned and started
(29:04):
their military careers in the Wagner
Jenn (29:07):
Yes.
So it's dedicated in 1960.
So it's built in 1958, dedicated 1960.
I think they needed adedicated ROTC building.
And they named it for a PennState graduate who was there at
D Day and gave his life at D Day.
. And so to know Harry Edward Wagnerwas a 1941 Penn State graduate and
(29:29):
he served in the 82nd Airborne and hefought to liberated France on D Day.
He was there on June 6th.
He was part of the men who jumpedearly, early morning of June 6th, 1944.
Now, He doesn't get killed on D Day.
He's actually killed about a month lateron June 27th, 1944, but like I said, this
(29:55):
Normandy Cemetery was used pretty muchfor anybody who was killed in the area
from D Day to about the end of August,September and even people still today.
And so it was three weeks afterthe landing behind enemy lines
that he was actually killedin action on June 28th, 1944.
(30:15):
And so his grave is there.
And I was able to find it.
I was able to walk out to it.
with a cemetery representativewho brought sand from Omaha
beach,
Scott (30:26):
she had a little bucket.
Jenn (30:27):
a bucket of sand.
And this is when I say, youcan't really read the markers
unless something is in it.
And then when you put the sand init and you'll see in the video,
how much of a difference it makes.
And so we were able to do that and thenwe were able to leave a Penn State flag.
Each grave was already adorned with anAmerican flag and a French flag, but
I was able to leave a Penn State flagfor where I, it meant a lot to me.
(30:50):
If you're a Penn Stater, youunderstand how much this means.
It meant a lot to me to be able to do
Scott (30:54):
And the listener, you guys have to understand that Jen was dressed up
in this little kind of pinup style.
So she had her hair done up andshe had her clothes were very that
yellow was a yellow polka dot.
Jenn (31:04):
I wore red polka dots
like Rosie the
Scott (31:06):
Red polka dot that day And so she was kind of kind of done up and then
there was like a French TV Station thatwas there that saw you guys going over
and so they actually followed you guysand they can't be basically interviewed
You briefly afterwards and so we foundwe actually found the clip or you did,
and I say we, you went and found it.
Jenn (31:23):
Yeah, it was like local French news.
And what was interesting about it is theytranslate what I'm saying in to French.
But they they film Tom Hanks, because TomHanks was there with Steven Spielberg, of
course, their connection to World War Two,Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan.
But they filmed Tom Hanks andwhat Tom Hanks felt about the day.
(31:44):
And then they cut to me and puttingthe sand in the grave and then
how I felt about that experience.
So I was like, wow, France seesme equivalent to Tom Hanks.
Scott (31:57):
It was just just a neat moment because it was so unexpected,
but it meant a lot to you
so
Jenn (32:01):
it was just, it was one of, probably the biggest honor I got that day.
Probably my whole time there.
It was such an honor to do thatand to be able to do that for him.
Scott (32:14):
Now these, these next couple of folks we're going to talk about,
they're not brothers in the traditionalsense, but they are brothers in
the, the, non traditional sense.
And that's because they are both,part of, were part of Easy Company
as part of the band of brothers,
Jenn (32:29):
Yes, there's four Band of brothers that are buried at this American
Normandy Cemetery and I saw two.
Again, we didn't have a lotof time to visit all of them.
I would have, but oneis depicted in the show.
We saw Terrence Salty Harris, andhe's depicted in the show when they do
(32:52):
theirthe mutiny in Alderborn and Theydon't want to be under anymore, and
Harris is transferred out of the unit.
Scott (33:01):
Yeah.
So if you, if you've, lots of folkshave seen Band of Brothers, if you
remember that scene where the NCOs aregetting together and they're saying,
we're not going to follow Sobel.
So we're all going to sign thesememos or the sign this letter
essentially stating and we're goingto route it up to chain of command.
And then it cuts to the scene with thecolonel, I forget the colonel's name.
Band of Brothers (33:18):
I ought to have you all shot.
This is nothing less than an actof mutiny while we prepare for
the goddamn invasion of Europe.
Sergeant Harris.
Sir.
Turn in your stripes, collect your gear.
You are hereby transferredout of my regiment.
Sir.
Get out.
Scott (33:35):
But he's like, he's I have to have all you guys shot.
We're, we're preparing for thegoddamn invasion to Normandy.
He's yelling at theseguys, letting them have it.
And then the first person he cutsto that the camera cuts to, he goes,
Sergeant Harris, turn your stripes.
You are transferred out of my division.
And that's him.
Jenn (33:50):
that's him.
Terrence Harris is 23 years old.
He was a part of Easy Company.
He wasn't after that, but he doesmake the jump on D Day, and he is
still part of the 101st Airbornebut he ends up losing his life.
He is given the
It was an honor to visit him there.
So yes, he is depicted in Band ofBrothers and he is, he is buried there
(34:15):
at , the Normandy American cemetery.
And the other person we saw was
Scott (34:20):
Everett Gray.
Jenn (34:22):
Gray and he was 22 from California.
It's just, he, he's killed June 8th.
It's just so amazing tome the ages of these men.
That's why it was such a, when thatstatue talks about the, the sweet,
Youth, like giving the, giving youryouth, like the spirit of American
youth it's just such a sacrifice.
(34:43):
You're giving your youth away.
And like I said, Terrencewas 23, Gray's 22.
I just, these men never,
did they experience marriage?
They experienced children, like theyget so much they never got to do.
And for me to be there and topay my respects to them, I just,
I'm just so honored to have done
Scott (35:05):
Yeah, when you think about it, it really does put things in
perspective because there's thousandsupon thousands of men that lost
their lives during World War II.
And the vast majority of them areprobably going to be in their 20s, and
so when you, when you visit them overthere in the location, where they lost
their life in a place like Normandy.
It's just that more impactful.
(35:25):
Now, the last couple of folks,they are not brothers, but I
would say, I would say that theywere probably sisters in a sense.
Jenn (35:33):
So you're going to have four women in the cemetery, which I love
because it's just so important.
Women represent they foughtin their respective areas.
You have nurses and these womenwere part of the six triple eight.
So the four women at this the American,the Normandy American Cemetery, three
(35:54):
or six, triple eight, one as a nurse.
And so I visit two womenfrom the six, triple eight
Scott (35:58):
know, 6888 was, we've talked about them before.
We actually probably multiple times.
We have, I think we have a full anotherpodcast episode that if I can find
it, I'll put it in the show notes,but they were, the 6888 was the first,
Jenn (36:11):
African American women army corps, and it was a central
postal directory battalion.
Scott (36:18):
So they were brought in to help with this postal backlog that whatever
mail unit couldn't figure it out.
Jenn (36:25):
years.
It was, I think it was like a year,two years of backlog of mail to
service members out there in Europe.
Scott (36:34):
Yeah so not only was this the first all black female unit, right?
So first black female officer,this, this first of its kind, right?
And think about the era inwhich they are operating, right?
So they get there, theysend them over to what?
We may not think right that theoutsider who's not involved in the
(36:55):
military and we talked about thisWhen we talked about the six triple
a before Outside the military you'relike, well, what's the big deal with
the postal battalion like some backlogmail when you're deployed overseas?
And especially for these men's whowere there for years on end, right?
Some of the bandit brotherswere there for a couple
Jenn (37:10):
Yeah.
Not knowing when you're going to come
Scott (37:11):
not knowing when you're going to come home.
They're writing letters home.
They're hoping to receive letters whereverthey are That, you and I have been on,
nine month deployments before and gettinga care package or a letter, right?
And nowadays you can get emails.
But when we first came in and whenyou, I first came in, email was not as
common in getting a letter from homewith a picture or whatever it is, was
(37:34):
it just lifted your spirits so muchand think about, this is world war two.
So letters were the only option.
That's the only way they couldhear from their loved ones, from
their friends, from whatever.
And this unit comes in and doessome amazing things to turn things
Jenn (37:52):
Within months.
So they come go to England firstwithin months, they clear out all
the mail in England within a couple
months,
Scott (37:59):
takes three, they were expecting to, for it to take six to
nine months and they did in three.
Jenn (38:03):
three.
And so they were so effective.
They sent them to France tothe backlog of mail in France.
And again, so effective.
And they just, really excelledin what they were called to do.
And just really, I think just made womenin the military, African American in
the women's military made them look soprofessional and so good at their job.
Scott (38:26):
I found a video online and it was, I think it was like Hollywood recognizing
women of the 6888 or something like that.
And so it's I don't know if it'sWalter Cronkite and Terry Crews,
these kind of well known actors andfolks narrating this video, and it
talks about an interaction that theunit had with the visiting general.
And this visiting general comes in, andso Major Adams Charity Adams, she was the
(38:50):
first black female commissioned officer.
She was in charge of this, this unit.
The general visited, She was supposedto have her unit out there for kind of
inspection, so he could see, look and seeit in their typical inspection uniforms
or whatever it was, and he gave her a hardtime because her entire unit wasn't there.
Well, and she was explaining,well, they had their group.
(39:10):
How we've been clearing this backlog isbecause we've been working in shifts and
basically working 24 hours a day But inthree shifts throughout the day, right
and then for some reason they just whoeverwas doing it before I wasn't doing that
and so she pushed back and he threatenedhe's oh, and Again, this is the 40s.
He threatened to have a white officercome in come and take over the unit.
(39:33):
And she, she told him right then andthere, she said, over my dead body.
And what I heard again, this was in thevideo about this general coming back
later, I think a year later or somethinglike that, after they had already turned
everything around, they were sent off tothe next spot to clear more mail somewhere
else, was he actually came back and sawhow well she had done, and actually.
(39:56):
recognized her for that, recognizedher excellence and said that
he was wrong the first time.
And I just like, of the time of that era,that's to me, that's so indicative of
what can be accomplished in the military.
Even then that's, that's in the cruxof that's before really the civil
rights movements and all that stuff.
But in the military, you and I havetalked about It things just matter
(40:20):
a little bit less when you're in thesame uniform you're doing the same
thing You hold yourself to the samestandards If you accomplish the mission
and yet other person doesn't or ifif you're holding yourself to that
standard you're meeting the missionLeadership is going to be like, yeah,
I don't care what you look like.
I
Jenn (40:34):
Mm hmm.
Scott (40:34):
I don't care what your skin color is We talked about it with tuskegee
airmen that was a big thing for thetuskegee airmen and the military.
It's one of the things that I loveYou is a place for that to thrive and
for that to really demonstrate itself.
And so we've talked a lot about them,but let's say that the first first
(40:54):
with Sergeant Dolores Brown, I believe.
Jenn (40:56):
So what had happened was there was a Jeep accident.
There were three of these womenfrom the 6888 that were in a jeep
together and they had a jeep accident.
Two of them will die on July 8th, 1945.
And Dolores Brown, she'lldie July 13th, 1945.
She holds on for five days, butthen will succumb to her injuries.
So again, this is almost ayear and a month after D Day.
(41:20):
So they're still utilizing thisCemetery 'cause people are still
over in the areas and doing work.
And again, they asked the nextof kin, would you like them to
be repatriated back to America?
Or would you like them to beburied here with their brothers
and sisters in arms in France?
And that's what they decided.
So Dolores Brown willdie on July 13th, 1945.
(41:41):
You have Mary Barlow who would die.
died July 8th, 1945, and Mary Bankston,who died July 8th, 1945, as well.
And they're all, I have23, 22 and 24 years old.
Scott (41:57):
It was, it was really just neat to be able to show what these women did and
show that they're buried next to the menwho were right there in, in the theater
or the, the theater of war with them.
Jenn (42:09):
And there's 147 African Americans in the Normandy American Cemetery.
There's 20 Native Americans there.
So it is, again, I like therepresentation it has of World War II.
It is a World War II cemetery,but the representation of America
and the people who were servingthe country at the time is there.
Scott (42:31):
Yeah.
So it was, The video is great.
I was so glad you got to get outthere and see the people that you did.
You really, you made the most ofit because there's a lot of people
there and you were a little bitbeholden to your tour group sometimes.
So you did, I think you did a great job.
And for folks who are curious whenthis, by the time this airs, that
video will have already posted.
So I encourage you guysto go check it out.
Jenn (42:52):
I will say it is an honor to go there.
If you're an American, And you wantto be in a place where America is so
honored and so respected by a country.
The people of Normandy respectand love Americans and the way
that cemetery is cared for and theway I felt in that cemetery being
(43:16):
able to honor my fellow Americans.
It was just a feeling thatI am, I was proud to do.
It can't be replicated.
It's there waiting for youif you'd like to go visit.
But it is only Americans in that grave,in that cemetery, and it is an honor
to, as an American, to visit themthere in their final resting place.
Scott (43:41):
As a general's aide, I had seen many officers come and go, but
Major Charity Adams was different.
Not only was she the first Black womanto become an officer in the Women's Army
Auxiliary Corps, but she also commandedthe 6888th Central Postal Directory
Battalion, an all Black, all female unittasked with the monumental job of sorting
through a massive backlog of mail for U.
(44:03):
S.
troops in Europe during World War II.
The job was crucial for morale,and the General was keen to see
how this unique battalion wasfaring with such a monumental task.
We arrived at the PostalFacility in France.
The General's expression wasstern, his eyes scanning the
rows of women working diligently.
Major Adams was at the forefront, herpresence commanding yet approachable.
(44:26):
She greeted us with a saluteand a confident smile.
Welcome, General, she said.
We are honored to have you here today.
The General nodded curtly,clearly reserving judgment.
Show me what you've accomplished, he said.
As we walked through the facility, Icouldn't help but notice the efficiency
and precision with which the women worked.
The rows of mailbags had, hadOnce overwhelmed, the space
(44:48):
were now neatly organized.
The women moved with purpose,their faces focused and determined.
Major Adams explained their process,detailing how they had streamlined
the sorting and delivery operationsworking in phases 24 hours a day.
We started with nearly 4 millionpieces of undelivered mail, she said.
Now we're down to just a fractionof that, with new mail going out
almost as soon as it comes in.
(45:10):
The general listened intently,his expression softening as
he observed the progress.
It was clear that Major Adams and herbattalion were far exceedingly busy.
After the tour, theGeneral pulled me aside.
This is impressive work, he admitted.
I had my doubts about an allblack, all female unit handling
such a task, but they've proventhemselves more than capable.
(45:32):
Later that day, as we preparedto leave, the General approached
Major Adams once more.
Major Adams, he said.
His tone now warm and respectful, I wantto commend you and your battalion for
the outstanding job you've done here.
You've not only met butsurpassed my expectations.
The work you've done is critical to themorale of our troops, and you should
be proud of what you've accomplished.
(45:53):
Major Adams stood a little bittaller, her eyes shining with pride.
Thank you, General, she replied.
As we departed, I couldn't helpbut feel a deep sense of admiration
for Major Adams and the womenof the 6888, as it became known.
They had faced immense challenges andskepticism, but had risen above it all
to perform their duty with excellence.
And who knows, maybe they'll inspirefuture soldiers to join and serve
(46:17):
when they hear of the amazing work.
They did in these dungywarehouses of World War II France.
Thank you for listening totalk with issue podcasts.
And please reach out to us.
And if you want to chat with us,you can go to the history road trip.
com.
That's the history road trip.
com.
And, and that will be a place thatwe can actually converse a little
(46:39):
bit about particular episodes.
So I'm going to, and not just withus, you can chat with other people who
are listening to the podcast as well.
So go to the history road trip.
com.
Now, if you know someone elsethat might enjoy this podcast,
please share it with them.
them, especially if you think today'stopic would interest them, shoot them
a text and tell them to look us up.
We rely on you, our community to grow,and we appreciate you all every day.
(47:01):
We'll talk to you next time.
Jenn (47:02):
Thank you.
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