October 1, 2025 • 39 mins
In this candid conversation, Kristen and guest Caity reflect on their social media journeys -- from the nostalgic days of MySpace and Xanga to the algorithm-driven feeds of today. They explore the shift from authentic connection to curated personas, and Caity opens up about her recent decision to permanently delete Instagram after more than a decade. Together, they unpack the pull of doom-scrolling, the hidden costs of “free” platforms, and how stepping away from constant online noise can open space for creativity, connection, and self-reflection. This episode offers listeners both a heartfelt walk down memory lane and a thought-provoking look at the role social media plays in our lives today.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen (00:02):
Welcome to season two of Talk with Kristen with an E.
This season, we're digging alittle deeper into leadership,
personal growth, and the courageit takes to follow your passion.
Real conversations, honestreflections, because life isn't
perfect and neither are we.
(00:27):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back today we haveKatie, which I am very excited
about, Katie, welcome to theshow.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Caity (00:38):
Kristen, thank you for having me on your podcast my
home base is Boulder, Colorado.
I've been there for over 15years I feel like I, I am pretty
sure, Kristen, tell me if I'mwrong.
The rule is that if you've livedin a place for at least 10 years
you can call it home.
Kristen (00:56):
Yes.
I believe it's 10 years.
I totally agree.
Caity (01:00):
It feels like home at least.
Yeah, for sure.
We, you and I met at aconference earlier this year.
Kristen (01:08):
So fun.
Caity (01:09):
Do you remember that moment?
I remember it clearly.
Kristen (01:11):
tell me your version and we'll see how much they
match or if we rememberdifferent things.
Caity (01:18):
Yeah.
If I remember correctly, it wasthe last day of a conference
since COVID, I have not been tomany conferences, i's kind of
like out of the rhythm Yes.
Of constant social butterfly,miss, which I used to really
enjoy and I still do.
I'm just outta shape.
And you were so energetic,especially for, the final throws
(01:42):
of this conference.
My now CEO was sitting next tome and you reinvigorated the day
for us.
We had a lovely.
Fun conversation.
Half work, half not which wasincredibly refreshing.
I feel like sometimes,especially at conferences, we
forget that we're just people.
It was so nice.
Kristen (02:03):
I wait till the last day to go to all the booths
because I am so excited by thedifferent keynote speakers and
panels.
The final day is when I gothrough the booths, which is
good because they're not busy,but bad because there's not a
lot of free stuff.
I don't need all that freestuff.
Caity (02:17):
No.
Kristen (02:18):
I remember trying to go to booths of places I hadn't
heard of or looked interestingthe people looked welcoming.
So yeah, I walked right up, I'mlike, Hey, what is it you guys
do?
Tell me about this.
And then it led into otherthings, like you said, beyond
just work.
And I had.
Like I wasn't even planning ontalking about my podcast because
you're not supposed to solicit Iwas focused on learning and then
(02:40):
I forget what happened.
We're talking about peoplefollowing their passions I was
talking to your CEO about lifeand he brought up stuff you had
done i'm like, oh my gosh,Katie, you're amazing.
Hey, I have a podcast.
Would you like to be a guest?
It all just came out.
Caity (02:56):
It's amazing.
Wonderful, exciting and I'm soexcited to be here
Kristen (03:02):
yes, me too.
And it does show that I believe,you know, everything happens for
a reason and people are puttingyour life for a reason.
And I do think that there wassomething, pulling us together
and making this happen.
So I'm excited that the storieshave aligned, our schedules have
aligned, and we are making thishappen now.
Caity (03:18):
Yes.
Kristen (03:20):
So today we're talking about social media and for
anybody who's listened to anylength of time, you know I have
some very strong opinions onsocial media.
We're gonna talk about thatkatie and I talked briefly about
some initial thoughts, butreally it's just gonna be
talking about.
Taking social media, what itmeans to us, the impact and you
(03:44):
know, what we're doing about it.
Maybe so.
So we'll see.
So Katie, first, gimme a littlebit of background of like, what
was the first social media youremember being on?
Caity (03:56):
Oh, Kristen.
You know what?
I'm surprising myself.
My first inkling of an answerwas Facebook when you had to
have a college email address.
Yes.
Kristen (04:07):
Edu.
Caity (04:08):
Yep.
But if I'm like really goingback, it was MySpace.
Yes.
Yeah.
We had I the youngest of four inhigh school, we got our first
computer Oh.
And was dial up and you, no onecould be on the phone, it was
(04:29):
either the phone is availablefor inbound or outbound calls,
or someone is on the computer ona OL, right?
Kristen (04:39):
Or MySpace.
I was thinking MySpace was myfirst too because, I got on
there after some people were onFacebook already, because, um,
when I had graduated college,that's when Facebook came out.
I missed the opportunity.
My.edu address had run out so Icouldn't get on Facebook.
So I got on MySpace instead.
You know what was a predecessorto MySpace and I don't know if
(05:01):
you'll remember this'cause Iknow I'm a little bit older than
you.
There used to be blogging typesites.
They weren't called bloggingback then, but there was
something called Zenga.
X-A-N-G-A.
You'd write about your day andpeople could comment on it.
So like it really was apredecessor to blogs, but at the
same time it was a sort ofsocial media because people
could react much like onFacebook.
(05:22):
Then when Facebook came out,
Caity (05:25):
yes.
You know what?
I don't remember Zynga.
So either I was just not coolenough, which is, which is
entirely possible.
Or by the time we bought acomputer MySpace was in full
swing.
Kristen (05:40):
What are some of your first memories of it?
Do you remember what you weredoing on MySpace or what you
were using social media for backthen?
Caity (05:47):
Before MySpace, like middle school.
I had a journal I really enjoyedwriting and, and I, I was, I was
definitely, uh, let's say I liketo describe it that kind of,
from the womb I was different.
Oh.
But like in a good way.
A lot of people in a good waythat just made it a little more
(06:07):
challenging to fit in.
We'll put it that way.
Mm-hmm.
So I loved my journal and atsome point my mom's thought it
was a good idea to like, read myjournal.
No.
And I, I, like, as an adult, Ias an adult, I understand her
good intent,
Kristen (06:24):
She would
Caity (06:24):
read my journal then write me little, like, you know,
note fact in my journal, like,oh.
Katie, you know, I'm sorry youhad a bad day or whatever.
And obviously I, I didn't thatthe journaling, the physical
journaling tapered off in thenotebook I found my space, maybe
(06:46):
because my mom didn't know shecouldn't leave notes on it.
I loved it and used to writeabout just.
Thoughts.
Mm-hmm.
And I would kind of use it asjust a place to explore, you
know, kind of what was happeningaround me or observations.
I was in show choir for a hotsecond.
(07:07):
Everyone was on MySpace and itgot a little mean girls.
Kristen (07:12):
my Zenga experience was similar to what you were talking
about.
I had journaled my whole life, alittle in elementary school, but
definitely from middle schoolthrough high school.
I had a journal throughout theschool year, the summer, like I
have.
Piles of books of my writing.
I don't know that my mom evergot into it, but I'm even now
just have a sick feeling forthat part of your story.
(07:32):
Like, that's such an invasion ofprivacy.
Like, that makes me sick.
But so I switched to Zenga askind of my online journal then.
Which there may have actuallybeen a website called Online
Journal or something and it wasme sharing what had happened
during the day.
Musings or thoughts I alwayswanted to be a writer, so I was
just writing my thoughts andsharing it with the world and I
(07:54):
thought it was so wonderful,which it really isn't that much
different than what I'm doingnow.
Switching to MySpace.
I remember being so excitedabout teaching myself like HTML
coding because we'd go throughand like put like different
backgrounds on, like you couldcopy and paste stuff in there.
And then do you remember whenyou could get music to play on
your MySpace page?
(08:14):
Like when somebody would come toMySpace, there'd be music
playing and you'd base it onlike what your mood was or what
was going on.
Caity (08:21):
Do you remember any of your songs?
Kristen (08:23):
No, I wish I did because I feel like that would
add to the nostalgia.
Do you?
Caity (08:30):
Do those still exist?
Have you tried to go back andfind your old Zenga or MySpace?
Kristen (08:36):
So, my MySpace, I can't, and I have tried multiple
different ways and I can't findit.
My zenga, I did, I was able toget there one time.
And it didn't exist, but I wasable to like download like a
cashed file or something of allof my old journals.
And postings.
This was within the past.
Hmm.
Eight, seven or eight years.
(08:57):
'cause we were in the housewe're living in now.
It was around that time.
When I downloaded it I don'tknow where I saved it to.
I don't know if I put it on athumb drive or a external hard
drive.
Like I had it at one point inrecent time.
I don't know where it is now.
I'd written about, when mygrandfather died dealing with
that.
There was good stuff on it.
Not the death, but like youcould see me in my, late
(09:19):
twenties dealing with life.
Can you still see your MySpace?
Caity (09:26):
You know, I want to say circa 2020, height of COVID
boredom.
I was like, Hmm, I wonder what Ican find about myself.
I went down a rabbit holesimilarly, I hitchhiked around
Europe.
Playing hooky for a semesterwhen I was supposed to be.
Taking study abroad classes.
Oops.
And I kept loosely, yeah,loosely kept a blog, at that
(09:51):
time.
And it was like a blogger orsomething like that?
Yes.
Could not find the bag, couldnot find my MySpace.
But I do remember the songs Ihad on there.
Kristen (10:01):
What were they?
Caity (10:03):
Oh, I apparent.
I, you know, apparently I wasjust a like.
I went through a sad girl emophase.
Kristen (10:10):
I was gonna guess you had an emo phase
Caity (10:14):
who did not have an EMO phase.
Kristen (10:16):
I think we all had an emo phase,
Caity (10:20):
but I think the longest running song was Fix You by
Coldplay.
Really?
And there was also a lot of snowpatrol.
Yes.
What happens to them?
Kristen (10:34):
I have.
There was a lot of good music,and it's interesting to see the
ones that lasted and the onesthat fell off.
I'm not sure that the best onesare the ones that stayed,
because I think there's a lot ofones that may have been better
that aren't in the limelightanymore.
We can save that for anotherconversation.
Caity (10:53):
That's what I'm saying.
We can,
Kristen (10:54):
we can bring up different bands play their music
and say if they had morepotential, like it, it could be
a whole, like we will break itdown and it'll be amazing.
So listeners come back for thatepisode once we do it.
Okay, so my space, so we'regoing back 20 ish years or
whatever, probably.
20.
Yeah, probably.
Well, let's say 20 ish.
(11:15):
All over.
So things have come a long waysince then.
Can you talk about how yourfeelings or relationship towards
social media have changed ormaybe how your usage, yeah,
let's go with that first.
So where are you now in yoursocial media journey?
Which ones do you use or prefer?
Caity (11:36):
Yeah.
So, girl, this conversation was.
Incredibly timely becauseearlier this week I pulled the
nuclear option and I wholesaledeleted my Instagram.
Really?
And I had, well over, a decadeof my life documented.
Kristen (11:56):
You deleted or just inactivated.
Caity (12:00):
When you go to delete it, it walks you through about 10
problems.
Like, are you sure you don'twanna just press pause.
Yes.
You have to click, like, no,please delete.
And then it's like, but are yousure?
Wow.
You know what I both say, itdoes give you an option.
And this could just be like a,you know, a privacy law.
They completely.
(12:22):
Pull everything, every image,comment, like, connection, into
a massive zip file.
Depending on how long, you'veused the site it took five hours
for meta to compile this zipfile so you do have all your
stuff
Kristen (12:38):
then.
Caity (12:41):
I haven't.
Okay.
I haven't even opened it.
No, that's fine.
And I guess it's only been a fewdays, but,
Kristen (12:46):
so yeah.
Let's, let's, let's peel thisback a little more Katie.
Do you wanna tell us why thisdecision happened?
Was there something leading upto it?
Was it just a random thing?
Like how are you feeling aboutit now?
Caity (13:01):
Always complex questions.
With anything wise, it's usuallynot just one thing.
It's had a growing stickiness,internally for a while.
Kristen (13:12):
Mm-hmm.
Caity (13:12):
And it was multi-pronged.
One prong was, it was sucking somuch time out of my life,
especially when Instagram gotvideos and reels.
So many times I would findmyself at one 30 in the morning
with my phone three inches to myface, and I'm, mm-hmm.
I've been doom scrolling.
Yep.
And I don't even have learnedanything.
(13:34):
I haven't connected with anyhuman.
I have just wasted two, threehours, thumbing through short
video clips, now I'm, and Icompletely forgot what it was.
It was like rage vape orsomething?
Yes.
Even if it's just 15 seconds,it's something preposterous,
someone doing something stupidfunny or horrendous or it's like
(13:56):
they're, they've gotten soeffective at getting so quickly
to elicit a physiologicalresponse in you.
I did not like.
What I was seeing in myself fromthat, have you ever used those
apps that's like, you know, atime constraint and it says, I
(14:16):
think the app itself has one,but there's.
Like external apps as well.
Yes, you can try and limit yourown usage.
Have you ever used one?
Kristen (14:24):
Haven't used an app, but on my iPhone I can set
screen time limits I set mylimits for Facebook and
Instagram to each be an hour aday or something.
But it pops up with a warningthat says like, oh, you've
exceeded your time.
Do you want extra 15 minutes, anhour, or just ignore it there
have been times, especially onweekends, I ignore it.
I work very hard on boundaries,and I'm good with boundaries in
(14:45):
real life.
I am not good with boundaries onmy phone.
It's a struggle, I was onlyscrolling a little bit before.
I went to sleep and now it'swhat time?
It sucks you in.
I have several thoughts on thisfor the longest time I thought
Instagram was the safe onebecause you know, oh, it's just
pictures, it's just videos.
But the way that algorithm is.
Built that it bases things on,like knowing you and what you'll
(15:09):
like, or like you said, youknow, or you don't like things
that going to elicit an emotionand that make you to want to
just keep scrolling.
Like they keep feeding it to youlike a drug and you get the.
Like a dopamine or serotonin hitor whatever, like every time you
see something I hate it becauseI feel like they are controlling
me and this isn't one of those,like AI is taking over the world
(15:31):
conspiracy.
Like I just feel like the waythey have built it so much is
messing with.
My head I feel like I'm not incontrol anymore, which then
bothers me.
So I have been trying more tolimit myself on it.
My husband and I used to sendreels to each other all the
time.
We joked it was our lovelanguage.
It was funny, I was like, youhaven't sent me any reels
(15:51):
lately.
Do you not love me anymore?
And he's like, I'm really sickof watching stuff.
Like all these, content creatorsthey're all making the same
stuff.
There's nothing new or originalor creative anymore.
And he's like, I just don'twanna support that.
I don't wanna look at that andshare that because I'm, over it.
I'm like.
You're right.
Even if you look on YouTube,which I know, not a social
(16:13):
media, just a media, but thereare so many videos.
Caity (16:17):
Was social media.
Kristen (16:18):
It may be.
I mean, you're right, itprobably is.
It's long form content.
But a lot of those contentcreators, are doing the same
thing.
There's certain genres and ifyou're in this genre, you have
to do this specific video.
I feel like it's not thecreative platform it used to be.
Caity (16:35):
It's formulaic.
Kristen (16:37):
Yes,
Caity (16:37):
I hear you
Kristen (16:38):
that frustrates me 'cause I don't like feeling.
On Facebook I can scroll severalswipes and won't see a single
post from a person I'm connectedto.
It will be a sponsored post, anad, something from a group
company or page Facebook thinksI'll like.
They're sneaky, a lot of times Iam interested but that's not the
(17:00):
point.
Facebook is supposed to be aplace where I connect with
friends, social media intendedto create connections, has made
us.
The least connected we have beenbecause we are like, oh yeah,
we're friends with, we'refriends on Facebook, we're
friends on Instagram.
I know what's going on in thatperson's life, and meanwhile we
never actually talk to thatperson or are in an actual
(17:22):
friendship with them in the realworld.
Okay.
I'll pause
Caity (17:24):
thoughts.
Yeah, and that's a perfect seguebecause one of the other prongs,
was deleting my Instagram.
I had, 300 friends or whateveron Instagram.
there were people who maybe we,you know, I don't know, met in
casting on a trail somewhere orsomething, which like cool.
There were a lot of people Iliterally, never met.
(17:45):
It was like a weird mutual,like, oh, we both know this
person.
Yes.
And our content showed up ineach other's feeds but also, I
don't know that what we put onsocial media is a true
reflection of ourselves and ourlives.
It's kind of like you weresaying, we feel like because we
(18:06):
see snippets of people's liveswe know them.
Mm-hmm.
But if someone just saw myInstagram feed, I can
confidently say that does notqualify them as knowing me.
I have to remind myself it's thesame toward other people.
Kristen (18:27):
Yes, it totally does, because it brings in that
authenticity.
Piece.
You can be whoever you wanna beon the internet.
And I remember even back, youknow, going back to MySpace days
and before on a OL instantmessenger in chat rooms.
Like you could be anyone youwanted to be.
And then MTV had the whole showabout catfish.
Right.
And people were catfishing.
(18:47):
'cause you could be whoever youwanted to be online.
It doesn't have to be thatextreme.
But on Facebook and Instagram,you're showing the best of your
life.
In some ways, you could becreating a separate persona and
it's not real.
Even if you are interacting withfriends online, if it's not a
real version of them, who areyou actually interacting with
(19:07):
and who is it benefiting?
Caity (19:11):
Exactly.
And honestly, Kristen, I thinkthat second question is the most
important.
It's the why.
Why are we here?
Why are we doing this?
What is it displacing?
I haven't, I'm gonna.
I don't know.
Drop an embarrassing, shamefultruth bomb.
I have not read a book in ayear.
(19:31):
I'm not blaming social media.
I can hear it in your gasp.
And trust me, I feel,
Kristen (19:37):
I feel the same shame.
I feel like I need to rescueyou.
Can I bring some books to you?
I'll fly out to you right now.
I will bring you all the books.
I will read to you, Katie, youneed to read.
Caity (19:50):
Here's the fun part I probably have a stack of 25
books I cannot wait to read.
But for lots of reasons we canget into that another time.
But I think a big enough chunk,one of the bigger contributors.
How's then the nighttime doomscroll?
(20:10):
I get into bed, I'm like, oh,let me just check something real
quickly.
Yes.
Three hours later, it's
Kristen (20:16):
It's a SpongeBob voice four hours later.
Like a hundred percent becauseit shame my eternal shame voice.
No, but I mean, I am a reader,but I struggle with that because
it's like, oh, I don't have muchtime.
I'll just get on Instagraminstead of opening my book it's.
Easy, but not fulfilling.
(20:36):
Like you feel good in the momentand then don't, like people on
drugs or alcohol they get theirhit, they feel good, and then
like it comes down and they'relike, oh, that really wasn't
that good.
Like this is, I feel like that'skinda, which again, I believe
it's all a drug and they'remaking us addicted.
Yes.
Caity (20:53):
Yes, girl.
It's total.
You just feel like, even justphysically, I just feel so
disgusted with myself.
Yes.
And like about like a lack ofcontrol.
And I, I like to think that Ihave, am self disciplined.
I feel like I make, I generallymake good choices, in the best
interest of my health andothers.
(21:14):
I care about my community andI'm a good steward, but for
whatever reason, it's that drugeffect.
You succumb to this thing thatis designed to do exactly what
it's doing to me.
And I think that was kind ofthe, the ultimate thing with
leading my Instagram was this isnot something that I can
overcome.
(21:34):
There are narratives we tellourselves to feel good about
decisions that maybe we knowdeep down are not in our best
interest.
And one of them for me was like,oh, but like I, I get to see
pictures.
I get to stay better connectedwith my friends and with people.
But since deleting it, I boughtstationary.
(21:56):
I got a new color ink for myfountain pan, and I have started
writing letters, writing cards,and my new goal to keep
connections even with people faraway, is to send at least one
card or letter to someone once aweek.
Kristen (22:14):
I love that idea.
I often send cards becausewriting letters and cards is a
lost art.
My grandma used to do that,she'd write out cards and send
them to her friends, I want usto get back to that.
I'm ready to be like a lady ofthe fifties sending out letters
and inviting friends over fortea and catching up in real life
(22:35):
because that is so much moremeaningful than the fake and
false relationships we have viasocial media.
Now I have to ask you I knowit's only been a few days since
you've deleted it, but are youhaving any fomo?
Are you afraid you're missinganything?
Caity (22:53):
Zero.
Fomo.
Honestly, I haven't thoughtabout it much.
Let me reset the stasis aroundmy deletion of, Instagram.
I have not posted anything.
Since this really cool seakayaking trip, around Vancouver
Island
Kristen (23:11):
Ooh,
Caity (23:11):
like late summer, early fall, I, posted some pictures
and some stories from that, butI had not posted anything since,
and I had uninstalled the appfrom my phone maybe three months
ago.
Although it's easy to log on.
(23:33):
You're on your phone.
So that's what I had been doingand continuing to dooms for a
long.
But I think because I had kindof, in a way weaned myself a
little bit before going Kohl's,Turkey, like it was less of a,
you know, I don't know.
A big deal.
Kristen (23:53):
No, I like that.
That's'cause that's what I'vewondered too, like could I give
it up?
Yes.
Would I miss it?
Maybe.
I think I could delete Instagramfine because I'm kind of over
the stuff there.
I worry about Facebook becausethere's different activities I
follow.
Like my son's school, if theypost stuff there's probably
other ways to get theinformation, I wouldn't be
(24:14):
missing out that much thebenefits would probably outweigh
any of the downsides to it.
But you brought up something tooabout talking about how you
hadn't posted for a while, andthis is something else I have to
thought about, like when I, whenI post something now I focus
more on why am I posting this?
Because there's so many, somepeople that will like document
their entire life and that's howFacebook started too.
(24:37):
Remember the status Kristen is,watching TV or whatever.
It was tracking everything realtime.
Yes it was.
And there are people that stilltreat it that way, not
necessarily with the I am doing.
Here's the pictures of all thethings I did this weekend.
Here's the things from this, andthere's a lot of stuff all the
time, and I have to ask myselflike, why are they posting that?
(25:00):
And again, disclaimer, I'mpeople who do this.
I'm not saying there's anythingnegative towards you by any
means.
You do.
You post what you want.
Free country, free speech, butfor me, where my head is at and
how I know how I feel aboutthese sites, I start to wonder
are you doing that forattention?
Is it an insecurity?
That could be me projectingbecause I know I've been in that
(25:21):
place where I'll post somethingif I wanna get a reaction, like,
oh, I'm feeling cute.
Let me post those pictures sopeople will tell me how pretty I
am.
So I've made a more consciouseffort in the past year to be
more, cautious about what Ishare and keeping my life more
private.
Some of the things I share arequotes, leadership quotes from a
page or maybe an event I'm goingto that I want somebody to come
(25:42):
to.
So I'm just more cognizant ofwhat I'm sharing and why do you
feel that that was something youwere doing before you cut
everything?
What are your thoughts?
Caity (25:52):
Maybe I hadn't.
Thought about it as clearly andarticulately as you laid it out.
I think I was feeling a lot ofthat.
One thing you mentioned,reminded me, I haven't seen it
so much in the past few years,but do you remember the kinds of
posts that did not come out youwere so emotionally like, um,
(26:15):
what's the right word?
Like mysterious?
Yes.
Like there was this weird, quasiurgent quasi serious mystique
around this post.
Kristen (26:25):
There was a name for it too.
'cause you had post, becausepeople post something didn't
really, I think there was, andI'm not gonna remember if I
remember it later, I'll put itin.
But there, because I think therewas something for them, maybe
vague book posts.
'cause they were vague.
But it was people likeoftentimes a cry for attention.
Because they wanted you to askwhat was going on.
(26:45):
They wanted you to pull theinformation.
Yes.
And then it's just like, oh mygosh.
But I would get sucked into notthe asking'cause I would go the
other way.
I'm like, alright, let me startlooking at your profile your
sister-in-law's profile yoursister-in-law's aunt's profile
and your sister-in-law's aunt'sdog's profile.
Lemme piece together what'sgoing on in your family drama.
Again, just wasted more time.
Caity (27:08):
That is amazing.
Kristen (27:10):
Oh my
Caity (27:11):
Deleted IG keep LinkedIn because
Kristen (27:15):
I was gonna ask about that because I have seen you on
LinkedIn.
Do you have a different opinionon LinkedIn or professional
social networking sites?
Caity (27:24):
Oh, I, I, hate is a strong word according to the
plain white tee.
Hate is a strong word, but Ireally, really, really don't
like it.
Honestly, I think LinkedIn isall the same.
I think I've been using LinkedInas a surrogate for no Instagram
because I've more time.
Kristen (27:45):
you've replaced one vice with another.
Here's the thing.
I don't think link.
Oh, terrible.
I don't think LinkedIn'salgorithm is at the level that
Meta has made theirs on Facebookand Instagram.
Because I can scroll a littlebit on LinkedIn and be like, I'm
bored.
I love business stuff.
Leadership.
Like I love the stuff it'sshowing me, but to me.
(28:06):
LinkedIn is almost more fakethan Facebook because they're,
you've got all these people,these long posts that you can
tell.
Chat, GPT probably helped themwrite, and again, no shade.
Love me some chat.
GPT Oh, it, it helps me on mypodcast planning, but when a
post and be like, this is, I cantell this isn't your original
thought.
Caity (28:25):
Yes.
And there's other telltale signsof chat, GPT, which I'm sure you
can name them off.
Kristen (28:33):
Why don't you share with our listeners?
Caity (28:36):
Some people are more savvy with using ai, especially
a tool like Chat two pt,especially in their work lives.
It can be in a, a massive toolwhich can act like, you know,
drastically.
Increased productivity,especially in a marketing role
where you are, you, you arecreating a lot of content.
(28:59):
Yep.
But when you use it enough, youstart to see rep a lot of
repetition.
Mm-hmm.
Like, they like to group thingsin three.
Yep.
A lot of M dashes.
Yep.
And you know, if you don't giveit, if you don't feed it enough
information.
At the top and if you don'tspend enough time editing it not
(29:22):
just for, you know, to scrub itof those telltale signs, but to
make sure that there's somehumanity or like some humanness,
some novel thoughts, some novelaspects that is yours or your
company's then why bother?
Exactly.
'cause we all can see whenpeople just.
(29:43):
Copy and paste right out ofthere because it maybe even
detracts.
So many thoughts on that one.
Kristen (29:49):
That's a whole episode in itself too.
I know.
Caity (29:53):
I hope somebody's writing down these ideas
Kristen (29:55):
for us.
Caity (29:57):
At the top before we started recording, you said if
anything needed to be taken outwe could put it in there.
So feel free to take that oneout.
Kristen (30:05):
I think we're amazing.
so much good material for manyepisodes.
Caity (30:09):
Wait, wait.
So back to Facebook to round offthe final prong.
Had to do more with Facebook.
And Instagram.
I'm glad the plane has, taken usback to facebook because it
really like a lot of the ickyfeeling that I was talking about
in the beginning that has beenkind of eing and growing has to
(30:30):
do with how we so freely andquickly give up so much of
ourselves.
In the name of convenience andyou know of, sorry, guise of
connectedness social media a lotof, not all the time, but at
least in my personal experiencemuch of the time, was just like,
(30:53):
yeah, like using my data, usingmy dwell time.
How long I'm looking at content,even if not clicking or, or
interacting with it.
All of that, going into thismodel, this algorithm that they
are profiting a lot on.
Mm-hmm.
And they're pretty freely andindiscriminately, selling their
(31:15):
services to people who do nothave the best interest of humans
societies and the importance ofconnecting.
Some are more interested individing or strengthening a
certain subset of a society thatis not healthy for the whole.
Kristen (31:34):
Mm-hmm.
Caity (31:35):
Especially lately.
It was kind of like thebutterfly that broke the camel's
back.
Is that the phrase?
Kristen (31:44):
You just invented something amazing.
I think I've heard it.
Like the straw that broke thecamel's back.
But I think the butterfly isbetter.
Caity (31:54):
It's too ugly to be a butterfly, so we'll call it a
straw.
It's not very nice thing itself,but, but oh, sorry.
Yeah, you, I think you get thepoint.
It was the final thing, and itmade me, calm I wasn't anxious
just like, now's the time.
It's keeping me from doingthings I love, like dedicating
(32:14):
more time to reading.
Kristen (32:16):
Mm-hmm.
Caity (32:17):
At one point it was a net positive effect on my life
social life and wellbeing.
But over the decades, it morphedinto something quite.
Opposite.
Going back to your question ofwhy I didn't have a why anymore,
Kristen (32:36):
Yeah.
Caity (32:36):
To keep me doing that I didn't want to contribute, in
any way.
Kristen (32:41):
I think you've made good points, about how they're
gathering data and buildinglarge models and you're getting
nothing out of it, but they'reusing that data nothing is ever
free.
Somebody pays for it, and if youare not paying for it, you are
the payment Facebook has beenfree because the user doesn't
pay for it.
But the user is paying for it inall the other things, like the
(33:05):
time, energy.
Mm-hmm.
The distraction, brokenrelationships, everything you
are putting into it, all thatenergy is what they're taking.
Yeah.
And I almost picture it likesome movie where an alien gets
its life by sucking all theenergy from all the humans and
like just picture the alien aslike a giant cell phone or
social media platform.
(33:26):
Yes.
That's what it is and we areallowing it I think we've hit
the bubble now because I don'tthink your experience.
Is a one-off.
A lot of people are at thatpoint and they're like, what am
I really getting out of thisnow?
We're not gonna go superpolitical but I believe there
are, organizations, entities,groups that are using it.
(33:49):
For their specific platform andmaybe twisting ideas, thoughts,
information into a way to skewdifferent people's realities.
Like trying to, trying to saywhat I'm thinking, but I don't
know that I'm getting the rightwords.
Some people are still going tobe sucked into it.
And there's some people like youthat are like, no, screw this.
(34:11):
I'm done.
I'm out.
You're not taking my timeanymore to build your alien in
the sky model.
Caity (34:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm definitely, reading betweenthe lines and it's, I, I think
it's, you know, it's, I knowit's, it's not just a feeling or
an inkling that that'shappening.
There's data and research toback bob up and it's not even,
you know, organizations withinthe US, which is, I think, the
(34:38):
biggest user group.
But outside influencers as well.
Think we should all spend sometime thinking about, and how
that may or may not be affectingthe content we see, and how we
feel
Kristen (34:51):
yeah.
A hundred percent.
I wanna go back to a 1950s lifewhere I am writing letters to my
friends and I am having tea andI don't know what's going on in
the world unless it's on mynightly news or the radio
broadcast in the evening.
That's, that's the world I wannalive.
I'm not saying I want to liveunder a shell or not know what's
going on.
(35:12):
I'm still interested in currentevents but there's so much
information overload you don'tneed to know what's going on in
every part of the world, everysecond how does that benefit
your life?
Focus on what's in front of you,where your energy is being
spent, the people you arearound, and just focus on that
instead of all the other things.
Caity (35:31):
Yeah, wholeheartedly agree.
I think that could be a wholeseries of podcasts in and of
itself, because there's so many,you know, layers and nuances in
that.
But yes, because so much of thatbigger picture is outside of our
control.
And if we, okay.
Sorry, this is a, I'll make thisquick, but I think it No, you're
(35:52):
fine.
Relevant.
My high school graduation,what's.
You know, like the, the, the fogmachine is, you know, blowing
across the stage and we're nowlike, transporting back to a
long, long time ago.
And, little baby Katie's walkingacross the stage getting her
high school diploma and the, thespeaker.
(36:14):
Speaker told a quick storyabout, you know, this, this
person who tried to change theworld.
And they tried all these thingsand failed and were sad.
They were like, fine, if I can'tchange the world, I'll change,
my country.
They tried and did all thesethings.
They spent time and energy, thenfailed and felt terrible.
They were like, fine.
I'll just try and change, youknow.
It kept going down and down anddown until just like, you know,
the people around me.
(36:37):
You know, I don't think I haveto fill out the rest of the
story, but by just focusing onthe people around them, they did
make some tangible, meaningfuldifferences and it had somewhat
of a butterfly effect outward.
And this story hopefullyillustrates the point that you
used the butterfly properly.
Kristen (36:58):
Yeah, that was butterfly.
That's the butterfly one.
And you know what, Katie, Ithink that's a fantastic way to
wrap this one up because I thinkthat really is the moral to the
story.
Social media was created toconnect with people meet new
people learn new things andbuild relationships.
And it had its time and placebut we've gotten to a place now.
(37:19):
Life has changed.
And now I think it is moreimportant that we downsize our
online lives and get away fromthat and really focus on those
around us, our community, thingswe control rather than giving
energy to everything else that'sthe moral of the story.
Caity (37:37):
Beautiful.
Kristen (37:38):
As we wrap up, any final comments from you or any
maybe a challenge for listenersor any advice you would give
people who also want to endtheir social media toxic
relationships,
Caity (37:52):
toxic
Kristen (37:52):
relationship with social media?
Caity (37:55):
There we go.
You had brought up a quotebefore and it reminded me of
another quote that is.
Pertinent.
There's a musician called JoePug, and I got to see him live a
few months ago, he has a song,and part of the lyrics are, the
more you buy, the more you'rebought.
(38:16):
The more you're bought, the lessyou cost.
That has always stuck with me,maybe from a consumerism point
of view, but I think.
By participating in socialmedia, I'm not sure if we're the
consumer or the product.
We're a bit of both for all mytalk of, trying to divest, its
my life.
I've actually met a boy onFacebook.
(38:39):
Really?
Yeah.
Well, he's a man.
Thank you for clarifying.
we're going on a kayaking tripin a couple weeks, we've met in
person once, but this will beour first like, thing doing
something together.
Kristen (38:54):
I love that so much.
And what an ending while we'vebeen bashing social media for
the better half of this.
I know.
I love it.
There was a happy ending.
Caity (39:07):
Yeah.
Like, you know,
Kristen (39:10):
Fantastic.
Caity (39:11):
yeah, it's an interesting one.
Well, Katie, thank you so much.
This has been
Kristen (39:16):
a complete and utter joy.
It has been super fun, and Ithink we have proven to
ourselves and the listeners thatyou are going to be back many
more times because we have somany things that we need to talk
about.
Caity (39:30):
I've got a list.
Super excited and super hope.
Looking forward to it.
All right.
Thank you so much.
Awesome.
Well, until we talk again thenKatie.
Bye.
Sounds good.
Kristen (39:41):
That's a wrap for this week's episode.
Thanks so much for spending timewith me.
Until next time, be honest withyourself.
Ask the hard questions, andremember, you are not alone on
this journey.
Welcome to season two of Talk with Kristen with an E.
This season, we're digging alittle deeper into leadership,
personal growth, and the courageit takes to follow your passion.
Real conversations, honestreflections, because life isn't
perfect and neither are we.
(00:27):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back today we haveKatie, which I am very excited
about, Katie, welcome to theshow.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Caity (00:38):
Kristen, thank you for having me on your podcast my
home base is Boulder, Colorado.
I've been there for over 15years I feel like I, I am pretty
sure, Kristen, tell me if I'mwrong.
The rule is that if you've livedin a place for at least 10 years
you can call it home.
Kristen (00:56):
Yes.
I believe it's 10 years.
I totally agree.
Caity (01:00):
It feels like home at least.
Yeah, for sure.
We, you and I met at aconference earlier this year.
Kristen (01:08):
So fun.
Caity (01:09):
Do you remember that moment?
I remember it clearly.
Kristen (01:11):
tell me your version and we'll see how much they
match or if we rememberdifferent things.
Caity (01:18):
Yeah.
If I remember correctly, it wasthe last day of a conference
since COVID, I have not been tomany conferences, i's kind of
like out of the rhythm Yes.
Of constant social butterfly,miss, which I used to really
enjoy and I still do.
I'm just outta shape.
And you were so energetic,especially for, the final throws
(01:42):
of this conference.
My now CEO was sitting next tome and you reinvigorated the day
for us.
We had a lovely.
Fun conversation.
Half work, half not which wasincredibly refreshing.
I feel like sometimes,especially at conferences, we
forget that we're just people.
It was so nice.
Kristen (02:03):
I wait till the last day to go to all the booths
because I am so excited by thedifferent keynote speakers and
panels.
The final day is when I gothrough the booths, which is
good because they're not busy,but bad because there's not a
lot of free stuff.
I don't need all that freestuff.
Caity (02:17):
No.
Kristen (02:18):
I remember trying to go to booths of places I hadn't
heard of or looked interestingthe people looked welcoming.
So yeah, I walked right up, I'mlike, Hey, what is it you guys
do?
Tell me about this.
And then it led into otherthings, like you said, beyond
just work.
And I had.
Like I wasn't even planning ontalking about my podcast because
you're not supposed to solicit Iwas focused on learning and then
(02:40):
I forget what happened.
We're talking about peoplefollowing their passions I was
talking to your CEO about lifeand he brought up stuff you had
done i'm like, oh my gosh,Katie, you're amazing.
Hey, I have a podcast.
Would you like to be a guest?
It all just came out.
Caity (02:56):
It's amazing.
Wonderful, exciting and I'm soexcited to be here
Kristen (03:02):
yes, me too.
And it does show that I believe,you know, everything happens for
a reason and people are puttingyour life for a reason.
And I do think that there wassomething, pulling us together
and making this happen.
So I'm excited that the storieshave aligned, our schedules have
aligned, and we are making thishappen now.
Caity (03:18):
Yes.
Kristen (03:20):
So today we're talking about social media and for
anybody who's listened to anylength of time, you know I have
some very strong opinions onsocial media.
We're gonna talk about thatkatie and I talked briefly about
some initial thoughts, butreally it's just gonna be
talking about.
Taking social media, what itmeans to us, the impact and you
(03:44):
know, what we're doing about it.
Maybe so.
So we'll see.
So Katie, first, gimme a littlebit of background of like, what
was the first social media youremember being on?
Caity (03:56):
Oh, Kristen.
You know what?
I'm surprising myself.
My first inkling of an answerwas Facebook when you had to
have a college email address.
Yes.
Kristen (04:07):
Edu.
Caity (04:08):
Yep.
But if I'm like really goingback, it was MySpace.
Yes.
Yeah.
We had I the youngest of four inhigh school, we got our first
computer Oh.
And was dial up and you, no onecould be on the phone, it was
(04:29):
either the phone is availablefor inbound or outbound calls,
or someone is on the computer ona OL, right?
Kristen (04:39):
Or MySpace.
I was thinking MySpace was myfirst too because, I got on
there after some people were onFacebook already, because, um,
when I had graduated college,that's when Facebook came out.
I missed the opportunity.
My.edu address had run out so Icouldn't get on Facebook.
So I got on MySpace instead.
You know what was a predecessorto MySpace and I don't know if
(05:01):
you'll remember this'cause Iknow I'm a little bit older than
you.
There used to be blogging typesites.
They weren't called bloggingback then, but there was
something called Zenga.
X-A-N-G-A.
You'd write about your day andpeople could comment on it.
So like it really was apredecessor to blogs, but at the
same time it was a sort ofsocial media because people
could react much like onFacebook.
(05:22):
Then when Facebook came out,
Caity (05:25):
yes.
You know what?
I don't remember Zynga.
So either I was just not coolenough, which is, which is
entirely possible.
Or by the time we bought acomputer MySpace was in full
swing.
Kristen (05:40):
What are some of your first memories of it?
Do you remember what you weredoing on MySpace or what you
were using social media for backthen?
Caity (05:47):
Before MySpace, like middle school.
I had a journal I really enjoyedwriting and, and I, I was, I was
definitely, uh, let's say I liketo describe it that kind of,
from the womb I was different.
Oh.
But like in a good way.
A lot of people in a good waythat just made it a little more
(06:07):
challenging to fit in.
We'll put it that way.
Mm-hmm.
So I loved my journal and atsome point my mom's thought it
was a good idea to like, read myjournal.
No.
And I, I, like, as an adult, Ias an adult, I understand her
good intent,
Kristen (06:24):
She would
Caity (06:24):
read my journal then write me little, like, you know,
note fact in my journal, like,oh.
Katie, you know, I'm sorry youhad a bad day or whatever.
And obviously I, I didn't thatthe journaling, the physical
journaling tapered off in thenotebook I found my space, maybe
(06:46):
because my mom didn't know shecouldn't leave notes on it.
I loved it and used to writeabout just.
Thoughts.
Mm-hmm.
And I would kind of use it asjust a place to explore, you
know, kind of what was happeningaround me or observations.
I was in show choir for a hotsecond.
(07:07):
Everyone was on MySpace and itgot a little mean girls.
Kristen (07:12):
my Zenga experience was similar to what you were talking
about.
I had journaled my whole life, alittle in elementary school, but
definitely from middle schoolthrough high school.
I had a journal throughout theschool year, the summer, like I
have.
Piles of books of my writing.
I don't know that my mom evergot into it, but I'm even now
just have a sick feeling forthat part of your story.
(07:32):
Like, that's such an invasion ofprivacy.
Like, that makes me sick.
But so I switched to Zenga askind of my online journal then.
Which there may have actuallybeen a website called Online
Journal or something and it wasme sharing what had happened
during the day.
Musings or thoughts I alwayswanted to be a writer, so I was
just writing my thoughts andsharing it with the world and I
(07:54):
thought it was so wonderful,which it really isn't that much
different than what I'm doingnow.
Switching to MySpace.
I remember being so excitedabout teaching myself like HTML
coding because we'd go throughand like put like different
backgrounds on, like you couldcopy and paste stuff in there.
And then do you remember whenyou could get music to play on
your MySpace page?
(08:14):
Like when somebody would come toMySpace, there'd be music
playing and you'd base it onlike what your mood was or what
was going on.
Caity (08:21):
Do you remember any of your songs?
Kristen (08:23):
No, I wish I did because I feel like that would
add to the nostalgia.
Do you?
Caity (08:30):
Do those still exist?
Have you tried to go back andfind your old Zenga or MySpace?
Kristen (08:36):
So, my MySpace, I can't, and I have tried multiple
different ways and I can't findit.
My zenga, I did, I was able toget there one time.
And it didn't exist, but I wasable to like download like a
cashed file or something of allof my old journals.
And postings.
This was within the past.
Hmm.
Eight, seven or eight years.
(08:57):
'cause we were in the housewe're living in now.
It was around that time.
When I downloaded it I don'tknow where I saved it to.
I don't know if I put it on athumb drive or a external hard
drive.
Like I had it at one point inrecent time.
I don't know where it is now.
I'd written about, when mygrandfather died dealing with
that.
There was good stuff on it.
Not the death, but like youcould see me in my, late
(09:19):
twenties dealing with life.
Can you still see your MySpace?
Caity (09:26):
You know, I want to say circa 2020, height of COVID
boredom.
I was like, Hmm, I wonder what Ican find about myself.
I went down a rabbit holesimilarly, I hitchhiked around
Europe.
Playing hooky for a semesterwhen I was supposed to be.
Taking study abroad classes.
Oops.
And I kept loosely, yeah,loosely kept a blog, at that
(09:51):
time.
And it was like a blogger orsomething like that?
Yes.
Could not find the bag, couldnot find my MySpace.
But I do remember the songs Ihad on there.
Kristen (10:01):
What were they?
Caity (10:03):
Oh, I apparent.
I, you know, apparently I wasjust a like.
I went through a sad girl emophase.
Kristen (10:10):
I was gonna guess you had an emo phase
Caity (10:14):
who did not have an EMO phase.
Kristen (10:16):
I think we all had an emo phase,
Caity (10:20):
but I think the longest running song was Fix You by
Coldplay.
Really?
And there was also a lot of snowpatrol.
Yes.
What happens to them?
Kristen (10:34):
I have.
There was a lot of good music,and it's interesting to see the
ones that lasted and the onesthat fell off.
I'm not sure that the best onesare the ones that stayed,
because I think there's a lot ofones that may have been better
that aren't in the limelightanymore.
We can save that for anotherconversation.
Caity (10:53):
That's what I'm saying.
We can,
Kristen (10:54):
we can bring up different bands play their music
and say if they had morepotential, like it, it could be
a whole, like we will break itdown and it'll be amazing.
So listeners come back for thatepisode once we do it.
Okay, so my space, so we'regoing back 20 ish years or
whatever, probably.
20.
Yeah, probably.
Well, let's say 20 ish.
(11:15):
All over.
So things have come a long waysince then.
Can you talk about how yourfeelings or relationship towards
social media have changed ormaybe how your usage, yeah,
let's go with that first.
So where are you now in yoursocial media journey?
Which ones do you use or prefer?
Caity (11:36):
Yeah.
So, girl, this conversation was.
Incredibly timely becauseearlier this week I pulled the
nuclear option and I wholesaledeleted my Instagram.
Really?
And I had, well over, a decadeof my life documented.
Kristen (11:56):
You deleted or just inactivated.
Caity (12:00):
When you go to delete it, it walks you through about 10
problems.
Like, are you sure you don'twanna just press pause.
Yes.
You have to click, like, no,please delete.
And then it's like, but are yousure?
Wow.
You know what I both say, itdoes give you an option.
And this could just be like a,you know, a privacy law.
They completely.
(12:22):
Pull everything, every image,comment, like, connection, into
a massive zip file.
Depending on how long, you'veused the site it took five hours
for meta to compile this zipfile so you do have all your
stuff
Kristen (12:38):
then.
Caity (12:41):
I haven't.
Okay.
I haven't even opened it.
No, that's fine.
And I guess it's only been a fewdays, but,
Kristen (12:46):
so yeah.
Let's, let's, let's peel thisback a little more Katie.
Do you wanna tell us why thisdecision happened?
Was there something leading upto it?
Was it just a random thing?
Like how are you feeling aboutit now?
Caity (13:01):
Always complex questions.
With anything wise, it's usuallynot just one thing.
It's had a growing stickiness,internally for a while.
Kristen (13:12):
Mm-hmm.
Caity (13:12):
And it was multi-pronged.
One prong was, it was sucking somuch time out of my life,
especially when Instagram gotvideos and reels.
So many times I would findmyself at one 30 in the morning
with my phone three inches to myface, and I'm, mm-hmm.
I've been doom scrolling.
Yep.
And I don't even have learnedanything.
(13:34):
I haven't connected with anyhuman.
I have just wasted two, threehours, thumbing through short
video clips, now I'm, and Icompletely forgot what it was.
It was like rage vape orsomething?
Yes.
Even if it's just 15 seconds,it's something preposterous,
someone doing something stupidfunny or horrendous or it's like
(13:56):
they're, they've gotten soeffective at getting so quickly
to elicit a physiologicalresponse in you.
I did not like.
What I was seeing in myself fromthat, have you ever used those
apps that's like, you know, atime constraint and it says, I
(14:16):
think the app itself has one,but there's.
Like external apps as well.
Yes, you can try and limit yourown usage.
Have you ever used one?
Kristen (14:24):
Haven't used an app, but on my iPhone I can set
screen time limits I set mylimits for Facebook and
Instagram to each be an hour aday or something.
But it pops up with a warningthat says like, oh, you've
exceeded your time.
Do you want extra 15 minutes, anhour, or just ignore it there
have been times, especially onweekends, I ignore it.
I work very hard on boundaries,and I'm good with boundaries in
(14:45):
real life.
I am not good with boundaries onmy phone.
It's a struggle, I was onlyscrolling a little bit before.
I went to sleep and now it'swhat time?
It sucks you in.
I have several thoughts on thisfor the longest time I thought
Instagram was the safe onebecause you know, oh, it's just
pictures, it's just videos.
But the way that algorithm is.
Built that it bases things on,like knowing you and what you'll
(15:09):
like, or like you said, youknow, or you don't like things
that going to elicit an emotionand that make you to want to
just keep scrolling.
Like they keep feeding it to youlike a drug and you get the.
Like a dopamine or serotonin hitor whatever, like every time you
see something I hate it becauseI feel like they are controlling
me and this isn't one of those,like AI is taking over the world
(15:31):
conspiracy.
Like I just feel like the waythey have built it so much is
messing with.
My head I feel like I'm not incontrol anymore, which then
bothers me.
So I have been trying more tolimit myself on it.
My husband and I used to sendreels to each other all the
time.
We joked it was our lovelanguage.
It was funny, I was like, youhaven't sent me any reels
(15:51):
lately.
Do you not love me anymore?
And he's like, I'm really sickof watching stuff.
Like all these, content creatorsthey're all making the same
stuff.
There's nothing new or originalor creative anymore.
And he's like, I just don'twanna support that.
I don't wanna look at that andshare that because I'm, over it.
I'm like.
You're right.
Even if you look on YouTube,which I know, not a social
(16:13):
media, just a media, but thereare so many videos.
Caity (16:17):
Was social media.
Kristen (16:18):
It may be.
I mean, you're right, itprobably is.
It's long form content.
But a lot of those contentcreators, are doing the same
thing.
There's certain genres and ifyou're in this genre, you have
to do this specific video.
I feel like it's not thecreative platform it used to be.
Caity (16:35):
It's formulaic.
Kristen (16:37):
Yes,
Caity (16:37):
I hear you
Kristen (16:38):
that frustrates me 'cause I don't like feeling.
On Facebook I can scroll severalswipes and won't see a single
post from a person I'm connectedto.
It will be a sponsored post, anad, something from a group
company or page Facebook thinksI'll like.
They're sneaky, a lot of times Iam interested but that's not the
(17:00):
point.
Facebook is supposed to be aplace where I connect with
friends, social media intendedto create connections, has made
us.
The least connected we have beenbecause we are like, oh yeah,
we're friends with, we'refriends on Facebook, we're
friends on Instagram.
I know what's going on in thatperson's life, and meanwhile we
never actually talk to thatperson or are in an actual
(17:22):
friendship with them in the realworld.
Okay.
I'll pause
Caity (17:24):
thoughts.
Yeah, and that's a perfect seguebecause one of the other prongs,
was deleting my Instagram.
I had, 300 friends or whateveron Instagram.
there were people who maybe we,you know, I don't know, met in
casting on a trail somewhere orsomething, which like cool.
There were a lot of people Iliterally, never met.
(17:45):
It was like a weird mutual,like, oh, we both know this
person.
Yes.
And our content showed up ineach other's feeds but also, I
don't know that what we put onsocial media is a true
reflection of ourselves and ourlives.
It's kind of like you weresaying, we feel like because we
(18:06):
see snippets of people's liveswe know them.
Mm-hmm.
But if someone just saw myInstagram feed, I can
confidently say that does notqualify them as knowing me.
I have to remind myself it's thesame toward other people.
Kristen (18:27):
Yes, it totally does, because it brings in that
authenticity.
Piece.
You can be whoever you wanna beon the internet.
And I remember even back, youknow, going back to MySpace days
and before on a OL instantmessenger in chat rooms.
Like you could be anyone youwanted to be.
And then MTV had the whole showabout catfish.
Right.
And people were catfishing.
(18:47):
'cause you could be whoever youwanted to be online.
It doesn't have to be thatextreme.
But on Facebook and Instagram,you're showing the best of your
life.
In some ways, you could becreating a separate persona and
it's not real.
Even if you are interacting withfriends online, if it's not a
real version of them, who areyou actually interacting with
(19:07):
and who is it benefiting?
Caity (19:11):
Exactly.
And honestly, Kristen, I thinkthat second question is the most
important.
It's the why.
Why are we here?
Why are we doing this?
What is it displacing?
I haven't, I'm gonna.
I don't know.
Drop an embarrassing, shamefultruth bomb.
I have not read a book in ayear.
(19:31):
I'm not blaming social media.
I can hear it in your gasp.
And trust me, I feel,
Kristen (19:37):
I feel the same shame.
I feel like I need to rescueyou.
Can I bring some books to you?
I'll fly out to you right now.
I will bring you all the books.
I will read to you, Katie, youneed to read.
Caity (19:50):
Here's the fun part I probably have a stack of 25
books I cannot wait to read.
But for lots of reasons we canget into that another time.
But I think a big enough chunk,one of the bigger contributors.
How's then the nighttime doomscroll?
(20:10):
I get into bed, I'm like, oh,let me just check something real
quickly.
Yes.
Three hours later, it's
Kristen (20:16):
It's a SpongeBob voice four hours later.
Like a hundred percent becauseit shame my eternal shame voice.
No, but I mean, I am a reader,but I struggle with that because
it's like, oh, I don't have muchtime.
I'll just get on Instagraminstead of opening my book it's.
Easy, but not fulfilling.
(20:36):
Like you feel good in the momentand then don't, like people on
drugs or alcohol they get theirhit, they feel good, and then
like it comes down and they'relike, oh, that really wasn't
that good.
Like this is, I feel like that'skinda, which again, I believe
it's all a drug and they'remaking us addicted.
Yes.
Caity (20:53):
Yes, girl.
It's total.
You just feel like, even justphysically, I just feel so
disgusted with myself.
Yes.
And like about like a lack ofcontrol.
And I, I like to think that Ihave, am self disciplined.
I feel like I make, I generallymake good choices, in the best
interest of my health andothers.
(21:14):
I care about my community andI'm a good steward, but for
whatever reason, it's that drugeffect.
You succumb to this thing thatis designed to do exactly what
it's doing to me.
And I think that was kind ofthe, the ultimate thing with
leading my Instagram was this isnot something that I can
overcome.
(21:34):
There are narratives we tellourselves to feel good about
decisions that maybe we knowdeep down are not in our best
interest.
And one of them for me was like,oh, but like I, I get to see
pictures.
I get to stay better connectedwith my friends and with people.
But since deleting it, I boughtstationary.
(21:56):
I got a new color ink for myfountain pan, and I have started
writing letters, writing cards,and my new goal to keep
connections even with people faraway, is to send at least one
card or letter to someone once aweek.
Kristen (22:14):
I love that idea.
I often send cards becausewriting letters and cards is a
lost art.
My grandma used to do that,she'd write out cards and send
them to her friends, I want usto get back to that.
I'm ready to be like a lady ofthe fifties sending out letters
and inviting friends over fortea and catching up in real life
(22:35):
because that is so much moremeaningful than the fake and
false relationships we have viasocial media.
Now I have to ask you I knowit's only been a few days since
you've deleted it, but are youhaving any fomo?
Are you afraid you're missinganything?
Caity (22:53):
Zero.
Fomo.
Honestly, I haven't thoughtabout it much.
Let me reset the stasis aroundmy deletion of, Instagram.
I have not posted anything.
Since this really cool seakayaking trip, around Vancouver
Island
Kristen (23:11):
Ooh,
Caity (23:11):
like late summer, early fall, I, posted some pictures
and some stories from that, butI had not posted anything since,
and I had uninstalled the appfrom my phone maybe three months
ago.
Although it's easy to log on.
(23:33):
You're on your phone.
So that's what I had been doingand continuing to dooms for a
long.
But I think because I had kindof, in a way weaned myself a
little bit before going Kohl's,Turkey, like it was less of a,
you know, I don't know.
A big deal.
Kristen (23:53):
No, I like that.
That's'cause that's what I'vewondered too, like could I give
it up?
Yes.
Would I miss it?
Maybe.
I think I could delete Instagramfine because I'm kind of over
the stuff there.
I worry about Facebook becausethere's different activities I
follow.
Like my son's school, if theypost stuff there's probably
other ways to get theinformation, I wouldn't be
(24:14):
missing out that much thebenefits would probably outweigh
any of the downsides to it.
But you brought up something tooabout talking about how you
hadn't posted for a while, andthis is something else I have to
thought about, like when I, whenI post something now I focus
more on why am I posting this?
Because there's so many, somepeople that will like document
their entire life and that's howFacebook started too.
(24:37):
Remember the status Kristen is,watching TV or whatever.
It was tracking everything realtime.
Yes it was.
And there are people that stilltreat it that way, not
necessarily with the I am doing.
Here's the pictures of all thethings I did this weekend.
Here's the things from this, andthere's a lot of stuff all the
time, and I have to ask myselflike, why are they posting that?
(25:00):
And again, disclaimer, I'mpeople who do this.
I'm not saying there's anythingnegative towards you by any
means.
You do.
You post what you want.
Free country, free speech, butfor me, where my head is at and
how I know how I feel aboutthese sites, I start to wonder
are you doing that forattention?
Is it an insecurity?
That could be me projectingbecause I know I've been in that
(25:21):
place where I'll post somethingif I wanna get a reaction, like,
oh, I'm feeling cute.
Let me post those pictures sopeople will tell me how pretty I
am.
So I've made a more consciouseffort in the past year to be
more, cautious about what Ishare and keeping my life more
private.
Some of the things I share arequotes, leadership quotes from a
page or maybe an event I'm goingto that I want somebody to come
(25:42):
to.
So I'm just more cognizant ofwhat I'm sharing and why do you
feel that that was something youwere doing before you cut
everything?
What are your thoughts?
Caity (25:52):
Maybe I hadn't.
Thought about it as clearly andarticulately as you laid it out.
I think I was feeling a lot ofthat.
One thing you mentioned,reminded me, I haven't seen it
so much in the past few years,but do you remember the kinds of
posts that did not come out youwere so emotionally like, um,
(26:15):
what's the right word?
Like mysterious?
Yes.
Like there was this weird, quasiurgent quasi serious mystique
around this post.
Kristen (26:25):
There was a name for it too.
'cause you had post, becausepeople post something didn't
really, I think there was, andI'm not gonna remember if I
remember it later, I'll put itin.
But there, because I think therewas something for them, maybe
vague book posts.
'cause they were vague.
But it was people likeoftentimes a cry for attention.
Because they wanted you to askwhat was going on.
(26:45):
They wanted you to pull theinformation.
Yes.
And then it's just like, oh mygosh.
But I would get sucked into notthe asking'cause I would go the
other way.
I'm like, alright, let me startlooking at your profile your
sister-in-law's profile yoursister-in-law's aunt's profile
and your sister-in-law's aunt'sdog's profile.
Lemme piece together what'sgoing on in your family drama.
Again, just wasted more time.
Caity (27:08):
That is amazing.
Kristen (27:10):
Oh my
Caity (27:11):
Deleted IG keep LinkedIn because
Kristen (27:15):
I was gonna ask about that because I have seen you on
LinkedIn.
Do you have a different opinionon LinkedIn or professional
social networking sites?
Caity (27:24):
Oh, I, I, hate is a strong word according to the
plain white tee.
Hate is a strong word, but Ireally, really, really don't
like it.
Honestly, I think LinkedIn isall the same.
I think I've been using LinkedInas a surrogate for no Instagram
because I've more time.
Kristen (27:45):
you've replaced one vice with another.
Here's the thing.
I don't think link.
Oh, terrible.
I don't think LinkedIn'salgorithm is at the level that
Meta has made theirs on Facebookand Instagram.
Because I can scroll a littlebit on LinkedIn and be like, I'm
bored.
I love business stuff.
Leadership.
Like I love the stuff it'sshowing me, but to me.
(28:06):
LinkedIn is almost more fakethan Facebook because they're,
you've got all these people,these long posts that you can
tell.
Chat, GPT probably helped themwrite, and again, no shade.
Love me some chat.
GPT Oh, it, it helps me on mypodcast planning, but when a
post and be like, this is, I cantell this isn't your original
thought.
Caity (28:25):
Yes.
And there's other telltale signsof chat, GPT, which I'm sure you
can name them off.
Kristen (28:33):
Why don't you share with our listeners?
Caity (28:36):
Some people are more savvy with using ai, especially
a tool like Chat two pt,especially in their work lives.
It can be in a, a massive toolwhich can act like, you know,
drastically.
Increased productivity,especially in a marketing role
where you are, you, you arecreating a lot of content.
(28:59):
Yep.
But when you use it enough, youstart to see rep a lot of
repetition.
Mm-hmm.
Like, they like to group thingsin three.
Yep.
A lot of M dashes.
Yep.
And you know, if you don't giveit, if you don't feed it enough
information.
At the top and if you don'tspend enough time editing it not
(29:22):
just for, you know, to scrub itof those telltale signs, but to
make sure that there's somehumanity or like some humanness,
some novel thoughts, some novelaspects that is yours or your
company's then why bother?
Exactly.
'cause we all can see whenpeople just.
(29:43):
Copy and paste right out ofthere because it maybe even
detracts.
So many thoughts on that one.
Kristen (29:49):
That's a whole episode in itself too.
I know.
Caity (29:53):
I hope somebody's writing down these ideas
Kristen (29:55):
for us.
Caity (29:57):
At the top before we started recording, you said if
anything needed to be taken outwe could put it in there.
So feel free to take that oneout.
Kristen (30:05):
I think we're amazing.
so much good material for manyepisodes.
Caity (30:09):
Wait, wait.
So back to Facebook to round offthe final prong.
Had to do more with Facebook.
And Instagram.
I'm glad the plane has, taken usback to facebook because it
really like a lot of the ickyfeeling that I was talking about
in the beginning that has beenkind of eing and growing has to
(30:30):
do with how we so freely andquickly give up so much of
ourselves.
In the name of convenience andyou know of, sorry, guise of
connectedness social media a lotof, not all the time, but at
least in my personal experiencemuch of the time, was just like,
(30:53):
yeah, like using my data, usingmy dwell time.
How long I'm looking at content,even if not clicking or, or
interacting with it.
All of that, going into thismodel, this algorithm that they
are profiting a lot on.
Mm-hmm.
And they're pretty freely andindiscriminately, selling their
(31:15):
services to people who do nothave the best interest of humans
societies and the importance ofconnecting.
Some are more interested individing or strengthening a
certain subset of a society thatis not healthy for the whole.
Kristen (31:34):
Mm-hmm.
Caity (31:35):
Especially lately.
It was kind of like thebutterfly that broke the camel's
back.
Is that the phrase?
Kristen (31:44):
You just invented something amazing.
I think I've heard it.
Like the straw that broke thecamel's back.
But I think the butterfly isbetter.
Caity (31:54):
It's too ugly to be a butterfly, so we'll call it a
straw.
It's not very nice thing itself,but, but oh, sorry.
Yeah, you, I think you get thepoint.
It was the final thing, and itmade me, calm I wasn't anxious
just like, now's the time.
It's keeping me from doingthings I love, like dedicating
(32:14):
more time to reading.
Kristen (32:16):
Mm-hmm.
Caity (32:17):
At one point it was a net positive effect on my life
social life and wellbeing.
But over the decades, it morphedinto something quite.
Opposite.
Going back to your question ofwhy I didn't have a why anymore,
Kristen (32:36):
Yeah.
Caity (32:36):
To keep me doing that I didn't want to contribute, in
any way.
Kristen (32:41):
I think you've made good points, about how they're
gathering data and buildinglarge models and you're getting
nothing out of it, but they'reusing that data nothing is ever
free.
Somebody pays for it, and if youare not paying for it, you are
the payment Facebook has beenfree because the user doesn't
pay for it.
But the user is paying for it inall the other things, like the
(33:05):
time, energy.
Mm-hmm.
The distraction, brokenrelationships, everything you
are putting into it, all thatenergy is what they're taking.
Yeah.
And I almost picture it likesome movie where an alien gets
its life by sucking all theenergy from all the humans and
like just picture the alien aslike a giant cell phone or
social media platform.
(33:26):
Yes.
That's what it is and we areallowing it I think we've hit
the bubble now because I don'tthink your experience.
Is a one-off.
A lot of people are at thatpoint and they're like, what am
I really getting out of thisnow?
We're not gonna go superpolitical but I believe there
are, organizations, entities,groups that are using it.
(33:49):
For their specific platform andmaybe twisting ideas, thoughts,
information into a way to skewdifferent people's realities.
Like trying to, trying to saywhat I'm thinking, but I don't
know that I'm getting the rightwords.
Some people are still going tobe sucked into it.
And there's some people like youthat are like, no, screw this.
(34:11):
I'm done.
I'm out.
You're not taking my timeanymore to build your alien in
the sky model.
Caity (34:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm definitely, reading betweenthe lines and it's, I, I think
it's, you know, it's, I knowit's, it's not just a feeling or
an inkling that that'shappening.
There's data and research toback bob up and it's not even,
you know, organizations withinthe US, which is, I think, the
(34:38):
biggest user group.
But outside influencers as well.
Think we should all spend sometime thinking about, and how
that may or may not be affectingthe content we see, and how we
feel
Kristen (34:51):
yeah.
A hundred percent.
I wanna go back to a 1950s lifewhere I am writing letters to my
friends and I am having tea andI don't know what's going on in
the world unless it's on mynightly news or the radio
broadcast in the evening.
That's, that's the world I wannalive.
I'm not saying I want to liveunder a shell or not know what's
going on.
(35:12):
I'm still interested in currentevents but there's so much
information overload you don'tneed to know what's going on in
every part of the world, everysecond how does that benefit
your life?
Focus on what's in front of you,where your energy is being
spent, the people you arearound, and just focus on that
instead of all the other things.
Caity (35:31):
Yeah, wholeheartedly agree.
I think that could be a wholeseries of podcasts in and of
itself, because there's so many,you know, layers and nuances in
that.
But yes, because so much of thatbigger picture is outside of our
control.
And if we, okay.
Sorry, this is a, I'll make thisquick, but I think it No, you're
(35:52):
fine.
Relevant.
My high school graduation,what's.
You know, like the, the, the fogmachine is, you know, blowing
across the stage and we're nowlike, transporting back to a
long, long time ago.
And, little baby Katie's walkingacross the stage getting her
high school diploma and the, thespeaker.
(36:14):
Speaker told a quick storyabout, you know, this, this
person who tried to change theworld.
And they tried all these thingsand failed and were sad.
They were like, fine, if I can'tchange the world, I'll change,
my country.
They tried and did all thesethings.
They spent time and energy, thenfailed and felt terrible.
They were like, fine.
I'll just try and change, youknow.
It kept going down and down anddown until just like, you know,
the people around me.
(36:37):
You know, I don't think I haveto fill out the rest of the
story, but by just focusing onthe people around them, they did
make some tangible, meaningfuldifferences and it had somewhat
of a butterfly effect outward.
And this story hopefullyillustrates the point that you
used the butterfly properly.
Kristen (36:58):
Yeah, that was butterfly.
That's the butterfly one.
And you know what, Katie, Ithink that's a fantastic way to
wrap this one up because I thinkthat really is the moral to the
story.
Social media was created toconnect with people meet new
people learn new things andbuild relationships.
And it had its time and placebut we've gotten to a place now.
(37:19):
Life has changed.
And now I think it is moreimportant that we downsize our
online lives and get away fromthat and really focus on those
around us, our community, thingswe control rather than giving
energy to everything else that'sthe moral of the story.
Caity (37:37):
Beautiful.
Kristen (37:38):
As we wrap up, any final comments from you or any
maybe a challenge for listenersor any advice you would give
people who also want to endtheir social media toxic
relationships,
Caity (37:52):
toxic
Kristen (37:52):
relationship with social media?
Caity (37:55):
There we go.
You had brought up a quotebefore and it reminded me of
another quote that is.
Pertinent.
There's a musician called JoePug, and I got to see him live a
few months ago, he has a song,and part of the lyrics are, the
more you buy, the more you'rebought.
(38:16):
The more you're bought, the lessyou cost.
That has always stuck with me,maybe from a consumerism point
of view, but I think.
By participating in socialmedia, I'm not sure if we're the
consumer or the product.
We're a bit of both for all mytalk of, trying to divest, its
my life.
I've actually met a boy onFacebook.
(38:39):
Really?
Yeah.
Well, he's a man.
Thank you for clarifying.
we're going on a kayaking tripin a couple weeks, we've met in
person once, but this will beour first like, thing doing
something together.
Kristen (38:54):
I love that so much.
And what an ending while we'vebeen bashing social media for
the better half of this.
I know.
I love it.
There was a happy ending.
Caity (39:07):
Yeah.
Like, you know,
Kristen (39:10):
Fantastic.
Caity (39:11):
yeah, it's an interesting one.
Well, Katie, thank you so much.
This has been
Kristen (39:16):
a complete and utter joy.
It has been super fun, and Ithink we have proven to
ourselves and the listeners thatyou are going to be back many
more times because we have somany things that we need to talk
about.
Caity (39:30):
I've got a list.
Super excited and super hope.
Looking forward to it.
All right.
Thank you so much.
Awesome.
Well, until we talk again thenKatie.
Bye.
Sounds good.
Kristen (39:41):
That's a wrap for this week's episode.
Thanks so much for spending timewith me.
Until next time, be honest withyourself.
Ask the hard questions, andremember, you are not alone on
this journey.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.