Episode Transcript
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Kristen (00:01):
Hey everybody, welcome
back.
So excited today to have myfriend Dana here and we're gonna
be talking about friendship.
Hi Dana.
Hi Kristin.
Oh my gosh, I have been waitingso long to be able to do this
one, so I'm super excited.
So before we start in gettinginto the big heavy topic we're
(00:21):
talking about, do you wanna giveus a quick introduction of who
you are?
Dana (00:27):
So I'm Dana, and Kristen
and I became friends quite a few
years ago.
Yes.
When our sons were in aplaygroup together in the
neighborhood that we lived in.
That's how we became friends andthen we both moved away, but you
would come visit me and we'vejust kept in touch for about, 11
years now.
Which has been pretty awesome.
(00:48):
So yeah, I'm just really excitedto talk to you because I feel
like over the years we've had alot of conversations about
friendship and navigatingfriendships and girl drama and
all that stuff.
So I am really excited to dothis.
And also, I wanna say that Ilove your podcast.
Oh.
And I'm so excited for you.
You are so good.
Like you're a natural at thisand everything from the episode
(01:11):
that you did where you read fromyour diary.
Yes.
Just the way you read and speak.
It's just so soothing to me.
I've been checking like, when'sKristen gonna drop another
episode?
And all the graphics and justlike the production value, how
prepared, like I am just super,super happy for you and you're
just a natural at this.
So I'm really excited for it andI'm happy that you wanted to
(01:32):
have me on.
Kristen (01:33):
Oh, thank you so much.
And that's such high praise fromyou because you're like in the
industry and you've had podcastsbefore and I loved it when you
had yours.
I'm sad that you don't have oneanymore, so I love that.
You love it.
That means so much to me.
Thank you so much.
Dana (01:49):
So I actually do have a
podcast, but like it's not mine,
but the radio show that I'm on.
That's true.
Yes.
We do have a podcast that I amlike responsible for promoting
it some degree.
Yeah, so it's called the RyanGorman Show and it's a news
radio show that I'm on here inFlorida.
But we have a podcast that weput out every single day and
(02:09):
it's pretty much like it's foreveryone.
Like anyone can listen to it andrelate to it.
So we try to keep the news funand light most of the time and
not be too political on one sideor the other.
So that's like my day job now.
Kristen (02:20):
I do love that.
I love the clips you share fromit because I'm always watching
those.
And you're right, I forgot, Iwas thinking more like you don't
just have your personal podcastanymore, but you're right.
That's a huge one and it's outthere all the time.
So yes, people should go listento that and follow you
everywhere because you'refantastic and they should follow
you so well, thank
Dana (02:38):
you.
You're fantastic too.
And we've had a fantasticfriendship, I think.
So we're excited to talk aboutthis.
Kristen (02:43):
We have, yes.
So about that.
So we talked about how we metthrough the playgroup, but do
you remember like when weactually met, because I have
these vivid memories and I wannasee if we were, remember the
same thing.
Dana (02:56):
I do.
So I don't remember whose housewe were at.
Yes.
But we were at like a houseparty.
Yes.
And we were all sitting like ina circle.
And it was one of those awkwardkind of things where, you know,
as a mom, when you have a newbaby and you're trying to put
yourself out there to meet newpeople, you go to this event and
you're like, okay, am I gonnaclick with anyone?
Are they gonna like me?
(03:16):
And then we somehow ended uptalking because I think it was
because my daughter lived in DCat the time.
And you had also lived in DC andwe both knew of the same radio
person.
Yes.
And that's how we hit it off andstarted talking.
Yeah.
Kristen (03:31):
So that's the same
memory I have.
And it was so funny'cause as wewere preparing for this, I'm
like, I can't remember her name.
Like I remember the living room.
I remember what it looked like.
She had all these seats aroundand we were all sitting there
and I think we went toCheesecake Factory before that.
I can't remember.
That may have been separateevents, but I remember in the
moms group, like they had allthe subgroups of when your kids
were born, but there, there wasthe overall moms group and
(03:53):
they're like, let's gettogether, let's have a mom's
night out.
And maybe they were separateones, but there was one in
Cheesecake Factory and one wherewe ended up back at this girl's
house.
And yes, that's exactly what itwas.
'cause you were like, oh, I'mDana, I'm in radio.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I wanna bein radio.
Like I wanna go to school forbroadcast journalism.
Ended up just in regularcommunication arts, but still
the same.
(04:13):
And then, yes, we found thoseconnections and I was like, oh
my gosh, I love this girl.
I want to be her friend.
And that's when we startedhanging out a lot more with the
group as a whole and just we hada couple play dates on our own
too with just the boys.
We went shopping that one time.
Remember we had them in thestrollers and walked through the
entire mall.
Dana (04:30):
Yes, I do remember that.
Oh my gosh.
And we, and I also remember, andmaybe this is getting a little
bit ahead of it,'cause it waslater on when you were visiting
DC when I lived in the DC area.
And you came over and we hadlike a sticker party.
Yes.
Like a strap of party or No, notstrap.
It was a planner.
It was a planner party.
It was a planner party.
(04:50):
Yes.
And you got me into thisplanning thing because you're so
good at it and so creative.
And I was like, I'm gonna makemy planner all pretty and I'm
gonna get organized.
And I went and spent hundreds ofdollars on all this planner
stuff.
And I didn't keep up with itbecause that's just not me.
But I really admire that aboutyou.
I'm like, I need to be more likeKristen and have this organized
meet pretty planner.
(05:11):
And mine turned out to be afail, but we had a really fun
night that night, like playingwith stickers like we were 12
years old again.
Kristen (05:18):
It was so fun.
It was like an old schoolslumber party and like we were
watching like tv, we had YouTubeon or something and we were just
sitting and gossiping andbuilding our little planner
pages and we were having so muchfun.
That was one of my favoritememories too.
So we had a lot of fun together.
Dana (05:34):
We definitely did.
Kristen (05:35):
So now that we've
talked a little bit about our
friendship, do you wanna talkabout other parts of the
friendship?
Do we wanna get into thestruggles of adult friendship or
do we start wanna, wanna starttalking first about making
friends as an adult and some ofour experiences or some of the
challenges we've had because wehave moved around several times
and every time it's like newplace, new friends, what are we
doing?
Dana (05:56):
Yeah, I know, and it's
hard, and I feel like over time
I've become a little, I don'twanna say bitter about it
because that's not the rightword, but a little bit more
hesitant about ING peoplebecause I think, from there was
some experiences in theneighborhood that we lived in,
where we first met when the boyswere small, where there I feel
(06:18):
like I've been blindsided a fewtimes by, let's just be honest,
there are some women who,because of their own
insecurities or because of theirown struggles in their own
lives, they will do things thathurt other people or that hurt
their friends.
Or I've been in situationswhere, oh my gosh, I can't
believe she did that to me.
I thought she was my friend.
Yes.
And so now at this stage I feellike I'm a little bit more
(06:42):
cautious about who I open up to.
It's almost like dating, likewhen you wanna put yourself out
there and you like fall in lovewith someone immediately, and
then you realize.
Maybe there were some red flagsI didn't see.
And maybe I need to, protect myown heart more before I just go
all out and connect.
And I feel like you and I, likewe had, we made that like
instant connection and it turnedout to work out.
(07:04):
Like you turned out to be a goodperson.
And I think I turned out to be agood person.
And we've had a friendshipthat's lasted all this time, but
it doesn't always work that way.
I think I try to be a little bitmore cautious and I actually, I
don't know if you listen to theMel Robbins podcast
occasionally.
Yes.
She actually,
Kristen (07:19):
she has an adult friend
one.
She, it's a very good one.
Dana (07:22):
Yes.
So I just recently listened tothat one and she made some
really good points about how,making friends as an adult is
more challenging than it waswhen we were younger.
Because you're just at differentstages in life.
Sometimes you think, you havethis close friendship, but your
friend will have something elsecome up in their life that just
takes precedence over thefriendship.
And how you just have to, hersaying now is let them, and just
(07:43):
let people be who they are anddo their own thing.
So yeah, there's so much wecould talk about.
Yeah.
I don't know exactly where youwanna start with all of it,
there's a lot.
Kristen (07:51):
I like the first thing
you brought up about it being
like dating, because I do feellike it's like that.
Like you're putting yourself outthere and when you join these
groups, whether it's a mom groupor a meetup or some other
Facebook event group thing, likeyou are putting yourself out
there and you want, at least forme, like I want friends so
badly, I will do whatever.
Oh sure, this person, yeah, wecan make it work with this
person or this person.
(08:11):
Yeah.
Like me like, and I almost forceit like, okay, these are my
options.
These are the people in thisgroup, so these are the people I
have to be friends with.
And you maybe change yourself orchange things about.
Your personality or something totry to fit in this mold.
And you mentioned Mel Robbins.
Another one that's really goodis Brene Brown.
And she has shared this thingabout the difference of fitting
(08:32):
in and belonging and fitting inis where you change something
about yourself.
So you fit with that group, butbelonging is actually, that your
purpose of self and that you arethere and you actually belong in
your space.
And it's like that differentvariation.
I see that.
And like in the, so let's takefor example, the playgroup we
were in, we were all therebecause we had kids the same
(08:53):
age.
Like they were born between,what was it like August, 2012
till, or, yeah, August, 2012.
So like August, 2013 orsomething.
And some of those girls, that'sthe only thing I had in common
with them is we happen to have achild around the same age, but
you force it and you're like,yeah, sure, we can make this
work.
I can work with that.
And then after a while you seethe cracks because it's not a
(09:13):
true friendship.
Would you say it's some of thethings you've experienced also?
Dana (09:18):
Yeah, definitely.
And just speaking about thatgroup in particular, there was,
I'm a little bit, I'm a littlebit older than a lot of the
women were who had kids that agebecause I was 35 when my son was
born.
So I know I'm a how I'm like,how much older than you?
Five or six years older thanyou?
Five?
Yeah, because I was 30 and thenYeah.
Yeah.
And then there were women whowere in, their early twenties
(09:41):
Yes.
That were in that group too.
So even just that alone, I thinkthe things that you have in
common with people can bedifferent.
I think there's also a maturitylevel.
Yes.
That was different.
And I can think of one person inparticular in the group who, she
was very young, insecure.
It almost seems to me like therelationship that she was in
maybe wasn't the best.
And I think she just had a lotof issues that then came out in
(10:03):
the group and caused some dramaand some heartache for some
other people.
And so I think, like there,there was some drama and there
were things that happened.
That really hurt me.
And I know that I learned a lotabout myself because I reacted
to some of it and let my hurtfeelings get the best of me.
And then I tried to defendmyself, and then I end up
engaging in some drama withpeople.
(10:25):
Yes.
And it was kinda like a a lifelesson, like something I learned
from that, that maybe I don'talways have to react to what
people say.
I actually think so I'm almostdivorced now, but one of the
things that my husband and I didto try to save our marriage is
we did three years of marriagecounseling and it didn't save
our marriage.
But I learned a lot about myselfgoing through that and how I'm a
(10:48):
very emotional person.
And I care about people.
And when somebody wrongs me or Ifeel like somebody was talking
about me or misunderstood me, Iwill fight back.
I get super upset, superdefensive.
I want my side to be heard.
And that doesn't always fix theproblem.
Like that doesn't always makethings work out in your favor.
It actually sometimes wouldmake.
(11:08):
Make the problem worse.
So I really tried to learn thatin marriage counseling.
Another thing that I did inbetween the time that, that we
had first met and over the last10 years, I read the book How To
Win Friends and InfluencePeople.
Oh, and it's a really old book.
But some of this and actually afriend of mine who I used to
work with had told me for yearsto read the book and at one
(11:29):
point he was finally like, youjust have to read this book.
So for anyone who hasn't readit, it's so good.
And one of the things that Ireally took from it is that it's
that to win friends andinfluence people, it's not
necessarily about impressingpeople or it's not about being
like, Hey, look at me.
Here's why I'm awesome.
Here's why you should wanna bemy friend.
That you can really make animpression on people by asking
(11:51):
about them.
Yes.
By making them feel special, bywhat you can, give to them by
being curious about their lives.
And even just something assimple as like remembering
somebody's name or thinkingabout the fact that, when I
moved back to this neighborhood,because, for our, for the people
listening, I lived here for awhile, moved away and moved back
(12:12):
eight years later.
And when I came back I wanted tocreate, like a village.
'cause I don't plan on movingagain.
I wanted to create like avillage for my son, for myself.
And most of the friends that Ihad made here had moved away.
So I went into it with a wholenew perspective like.
I don't have to be a personwho's like looking to get people
(12:32):
to like me or who's looking towhat can this do for me?
I can say I just wanna connectpeople and hopefully I'll make
some friends for myself too.
But I could tell because it wasright after, it was right as
people were starting to go outagain after Covid.
I planned this, I moved back, Igot in the mom group again and I
planned a dinner and like 20people showed up.
(12:54):
Oh, wow.
And I had, I had only met one ofthem before 20 people showed up.
And I tried to make it a pointto ask everyone to what's your
story?
When did you move here?
How old are your kids?
What are you, what do you do?
What are you looking for?
And it's cool because it's beenthree and a half years And I'm
still friends with some of thosepeople that I met that one
(13:16):
night.
Oh.
On that first night.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah, so some people have movedaway or drifted apart.
And also some people who metthat night formed their own
friendships.
And I don't really keep in touchwith them anymore.
They just have different, wehave different, we don't have
anything in common, or theygravitated towards different
people, but there were a lot offriendships that were formed
from that one night.
(13:38):
I don't know.
I feel good about that.
And I think that going into it,like being a little bit older
and wiser, I guess I went intoit to make friends for myself,
but also to try to connectpeople.
And to try to see what I couldgive and bring to the table for
other people as opposed to, Iwanna make friends because I
need to feel validated and Ineed to have fun.
Kristen (13:57):
No, and I love that.
And I think there's so muchtruth to all of that because
what you put in can be what youget back, but also what you put
in is what you're giving towardsother people.
And I think that's a huge thing.
And I do think that comes withage also, because you are not
selfish, almost sounds reallyharsh, but you're not as
selfish.
Like you're looking more for thebigger picture.
Like you even said you werelooking like, let me build this
(14:18):
connection for my son, for myfamily.
Because yeah, when the boys werelittle, like we weren't giving,
thinking about them makingfriends because at the beginning
they were babies.
They were just literally lumpslaying there.
As they got a little bit older,they would interact some more,
but it wasn't about them.
It was all about us and how wefelt about, and who we were
connecting with.
But when you're looking morefrom this angle now with more
(14:42):
experience, more maturity,you're able to see, how you're
doing it more for.
Other people, and I think that'shuge.
Now, the women that you met thatfirst night, whether you're
friends with them or not, werethey older this time because I'm
curious if the age thing playedinto the group mentality in this
version also.
Dana (15:00):
So I am still one of the
oldest, I'm not the oldest
within the group of people.
And from that dinner, we alsoended up starting a bunko group
where, I don't know if you knowwhat Bunko is.
Explain it for the listeners.
Okay, so Bunko is a dice gameand the standard is to play with
16 people.
It's four teams of four, andevery round of the game you
(15:23):
rotate.
So you play at different peoplehost it every time.
And it's a really good socialgame because first of all, you
get together, we usually gettogether for an hour or so to
just chat and talk before westart playing.
But then once you're sitting ata table every single round, you
rotate and you end up sittingwith new different people.
So you end up talking to prettymuch everyone who's there.
(15:45):
And we've been playing that, Istarted it in February of 2022.
And so we just played like ourlast Bunco, we did a gallon time
theme.
And so it was three years thatwe've been playing pretty much
every month.
We do end up skipping a monthhere and there if people are
busy or whatever.
But we play pretty much everymonth.
So many great friendships havebeen made just from that group.
(16:08):
And the way I advertised it wasI posted it in the main mom
group for the community and thenpeople have joined it from there
or sometimes people will comewith a friend and then they end
up joining too.
So it's been really fun for me.
And like I mentioned before,I've gone through a divorce over
the last year and my family'snot here.
So it's been the friends thatI've met through that group that
(16:32):
have really been my supportsystem, which has been really
important to.
Kristen (16:35):
And that's awesome.
And I think that's another thingtoo, as you get older, is
looking, I don't wanna call itnecessarily activity based
friendship, but I feel likethat's a different way to find
people who have a sharedinterest and you're able to make
more friends that way.
When I moved to the neighborhoodwherein, and we've been here
since 2017, now I have started abook club.
I think I waited until we'vebeen here maybe.
(16:56):
Six months to a year.
I can't remember exactly howlong we've been, but, and I,
same thing, I'd posted it onNextdoor, I'd posted it on
Facebook and I was like, Hey,anybody wanna join a book club?
'cause my thought was, I likereading.
If I find other people who enjoyreading, we already have a
shared interest.
It's an activity where it's anindependent activity.
You read the book alone, butthen you come together and
discuss it.
(17:17):
And like you said, then there'sother conversation that happens
from that.
So I had started that in thefirst group.
We had, I don't know, maybe sixpeople show up.
It wasn't a huge thing, but thenit got bigger because as more
people told their friends aboutit, then they're joining or
they're finding the Facebookgroup, or they move into the
neighborhood.
And when they search forFacebook groups, with our
community name in it, that pullsup and they're like, oh, this is
(17:37):
great.
And it was like, it got to apoint, it actually almost got
too big.
Like we were having so manypeople coming that you weren't
even able to really discuss thebook because everyone was always
just talking about their lives,which was a beautiful thing to
see.
And I'm actually.
Trans transferred it to somebodyelse.
Friends it now because it got sobig and then I was going back to
grad school and it was a lot forme to handle, but the group is
(17:59):
still going and it's so excitingto see building that community
that it's still going on, likeyou said, finding those
connections, even if it's notfor me, like I didn't get a lot
out of it and I did make somefriends out of it.
Friends I'm still friends withnow, but then it's still going
on and that other people arestill building a community.
It's beautiful to see thatbecause it's getting away from
just the, I need to havefriends.
It started as that, but itwasn't even about that.
(18:21):
It was about I wanna get to knowpeople in this neighborhood
because we have a bigneighborhood and like you said,
being able to have a supportsystem locally is so good.
If you need somebody to pick upa kid or you need somebody to
come over and watch your dog.
Having community within acommunity is something that I
found to be so beneficial in myold lady age now.
Dana (18:40):
I know.
Yeah, no, it's amazing.
I love that.
And I remember you telling mewhen you started that book club
and it's just, like it's sogreat not only for what, what it
brought to you, but also what itdid for other women who were
also looking for a sense ofcommunity and friendship and all
that.
So I love that we're connectors.
Kristen (18:56):
Yes, we are connectors
for sure.
And that's why people love us.
I wanted to bring up somethingelse you'd talked about too,
about the asking peoplequestions, because this is
something I've been doing foryears because people like to
talk about themselves and if youask them questions and then you
keep asking them more questions,they feel like they had a really
good interaction with you.
'cause they're like, oh my gosh,Chris and asked all these
(19:18):
questions about me.
She's so interested.
This is really great.
And I've been doing that foryears.
I had a lot of resentmenttowards it because I felt like I
was the one more invested in thefriendship than people because I
was the one asking thequestions, following up with
their kids, their life, alltheir things.
And I'd be like, why doesn'tanybody care about me?
Like all these interactions wehave, I'm learning all this
(19:39):
stuff about them, but I feellike they don't want to know
about me.
Is that anything you've seenwhen you've been building
friendships or am I just likethe crazy one here?
Dana (19:50):
No, I don't think you're
the crazy one at all.
And I actually, as you're sayingthat, I'm thinking to myself,
when I initially meet people, Ifeel like I'm good at it, but I
think over time with people thatI have established friendships
with, sometimes I'm so wrappedup in my own nonsense that when
I do talk to someone, I'm like,oh my gosh.
And then this happened, and thenthis happened, and I have this
going on.
And honestly, I do have a lot ofstuff going on in my life right
(20:14):
now that I'm dealing with.
That's hard.
So when I've caught up withfriends recently, I feel like
I'm just like spouting off andthen this, and he's got this and
she's got that.
And then I have to remind myselflike, okay, let me make sure
that I ask how they're doingtoo.
And it's not that I don't care,it's just that I have so much
that sometimes yes, I feel likeI need to do that emotional
(20:34):
dumping.
And then I feel bad about it.
I'm like, I don't need to feelbad about it.
So I do sometimes have to beaware of that because I like
talk about myself.
But.
I can totally understand whereyou're coming from because I
have had friendships in the pastwhere I felt like I was the one
who was keeping it going.
I was the one who was reachingout.
(20:55):
I was the one who was trying tomake plans.
And I feel like the goodfriendships that I have now are
a really good balance.
Yeah.
Of I reach out, she reaches out,I say, Hey, do you wanna go do
this?
The other person says, Hey, doyou wanna go do this?
And it's a really good balanceright now.
So yeah, that's where I'm atwith that.
Kristen (21:12):
Yeah.
And I think that's rightbecause, I said I'd felt
resentful for a while, but Idon't think necessarily those
were my people.
I think in some aspects theywere still the forced
friendships because you're rightwhen it's right, like it just
clicks and you're not worriedabout oh, am I texting her too
much?
Oh, oh look, she wants to dothis.
It's definitely a more balancedapproach I think when you are in
the right friendship or theright relationship, like
(21:33):
everything just works and youare not as in your head about
it.
It just naturally happens.
And I do I agree with that.
Dana (21:40):
Yeah.
I'm just thinking right nowabout someone who I've known for
a couple of years who seem to bestruggling with making friends
within the group, and she hadreached out to me and said and
said, I'm wondering, what'sgoing on?
I feel like people don't likeme.
And I ended up going out andhaving lunch with her, and I was
honest with her about some ofthe things that she had said.
(22:03):
That I had heard, like firsthandthat she said in front of me
that I felt were not nice.
Okay.
And then I said and then I said,but, I think that can be
forgiven.
I think, she's just I feel likeshe just, she says what's on her
mind without thinking sometimes.
And you know how like we'll havea private, we could have a
private conversation and maybesay something that we wouldn't
say in a group setting.
Yeah.
(22:23):
Let everybody talk a little bitof trash here and there.
Sure.
We all do it.
And if we say that we don't,we're totally lying to
ourselves.
So we all do it.
But you don't do it in a biggroup of people.
So I feel like sometimes thefilter isn't there.
I guess that's what I'm tryingto get at.
So anyway, we go out, we havethis lunch.
She seems to be very receptiveto what I say and take it to
heart.
(22:43):
And then, after that I felt likemaybe I should make more of an
effort to be a friend to her.
And I would reach out and try tosay like, how are you feeling?
How's this going?
How's that?
And I found that.
Over time my efforts justweren't reciprocated in that
way.
I'll get a text if she has aquestion for me or if she's
frustrated, but the amount ofeffort that I felt like she
(23:07):
wanted to put in to keep up thatconnection with me, it just
wasn't there.
And I feel like I've triedenough with this person.
I don't have anything againsther.
I like her.
I still consider her a friend.
I'll spend time with her if, ithappens.
But you get to a point whereyou're like, there's only so
much I can do for you, andthere's only so much time that I
(23:27):
can put in and effort I can makewhen the friendship just isn't
gonna be reciprocated.
So I don't know why that justpopped into my head.
I guess when we were talkingabout, feeling like you're
putting in more effort.
Kristen (23:39):
I think that's a
perfect example of it too, is
that, like I'm saying, you knowwhen it's right, it just clicks
and your example is, like Itried with her, first of all,
applaud you for being honestwith her because I think that's
something that needs to be donemore.
When people want feedback, weshould be able to give it to
them in an open and honest wayto help them be better about it.
So I think that's awesome thatyou even shared that with her to
(24:01):
begin with and made the effortwith her.
And I do think sometimes that,things just aren't meant to be,
but you put the work in.
But I would bring this questionup because I have seen similar
things like that where I'mfriends with somebody and it
just fades away or fizzles andit's not anybody's fault, like
you're putting it in, but it'sjust not working.
You're not getting there.
So what advice do you have forpeople who may be in that stage
(24:23):
where they're trying to make afriendship work, but it's just,
it's not working and it's notanybody's fault.
How can people deal withsituations like that?
Dana (24:31):
Should I just quote Male
Robbins and say, let them Yeah.
And done.
Yeah.
No, and it's frustrating becausesometimes it can be really
hurtful, when you think thatmay, and maybe it's a situation
where you feel like you foundthe one yes, you found this is
gonna be my bestie.
We're getting close to eachother, and then for whatever
reason they're not making theeffort.
(24:53):
It could be something, that youdid or something that, that
rubbed them the wrong way, butmost likely it's probably just,
we all have so much stuff goingon in our lives that I feel like
a lot of times we have to makelike a conscious effort to make
our friendship a prioritybecause when you have work, a
husband, or a relationship therest of your family, and of
(25:15):
course kids like, those are fourthings.
I feel like that a lot of timeshave to come before your
friendship, and so people justget pulled in so many different
directions.
That when a friendship seems tobe going in a, in the right
direction and then it's notworking out, or they cancel
plans all the time, or they'renot texting you back, most
likely it's not anything to dowith you.
(25:35):
Most likely it's just that thisperson just doesn't have the
capacity to maintain theirfriendship anymore.
And that's when I feel like, youlet them cut your losses, try
not to take it to heart, andthen you go and try to meet some
new people or focus on anotherfriend.
Maybe there's somebody who'sbeen inviting you to do stuff
and you've not given them thecold shoulder, but maybe not put
(25:57):
in the effort with that personwho's really trying to reach out
to you.
And you can shift your focus andput in the effort with someone
who's trying to put in theeffort with you.
Kristen (26:06):
Yeah, I absolutely love
that.
And I do agree with you becauseI've found, even there's times
where I'm busy and I'm like, didI even talk to this person this
week?
Like when was the last time Ireached out?
'cause we get so busy with ourown stuff and like you said,
keeping up with all the workstuff, the family stuff.
You want friends to be apriority, but sometimes it just
can't be because of everythingelse going on.
And so it really is anintentional effort to make sure
(26:28):
you're making that contact andreaching out.
And if it's not reciprocated,you're right.
Don't take it personally.
And that's something I stillstruggle with.
'cause I take everythingpersonally.
I'm like, oh my gosh, she didn'ttext me back.
She must be mad at me.
Or, oh my gosh, she only saidokay.
She must be mad at me.
Like I, I'm getting better.
But it has been a struggle foryears of I just think everybody
hates me and everybody's mad atme and whatever.
(26:49):
So we're working on that.
Dana (26:52):
And so with the whole idea
of feeling like, oh, she doesn't
like me.
Oh this, oh, that.
I, one of the things that we'vedealt with in this big friend
group with the Bunko people andthe people just from the mom
group in general that I've spenta lot of time with, is that now
the group is so big, I would saythere's probably about 50 or 60
(27:15):
women that are in this groupthat have come through, played
Bunko, gone to the socialevents.
Some of them I know pretty well.
Some of them I barely know, orsome of them I haven't even met.
But they're, they've become partof the other groups that have
broken off.
And, we'll all get together toplay bunko.
There's a lot of birthdaycelebrations where you'll have
kind of a big birthdaygathering, but then there's just
(27:35):
groups where, people break offand they do their own thing in
like a smaller group.
And what starts to happen is.
When you've got 20 or 30 peoplewho are all friends with each
other
Kristen (27:47):
You
Dana (27:47):
can't invite everyone to
everything.
You just can't, you can't makeplans on a night that everyone's
gonna be able to go to yourbirthday party.
Yep.
So what's happened recently isthat I really had to learn, and
I know some of the other womenare struggling with it too, that
if I see that these six peoplewent out to a concert together,
(28:08):
or if these other eight peoplewent to dinner together, or if
these two people just went outto just the two of them, that I
can't feel like I was excluded.
Because it's not intentional.
We went out last night and therewere four of us and we're
friends with, other people thathad asked us to do something
else and we were like, oh mygosh, we have these plans.
And we didn't leave anybody outintentionally.
(28:30):
We just were like, let's thefour of us just go do this and
keep it small.
And so it's you have to, not besensitive to that.
And there are some people who Ifeel like really struggle with
that.
And feel like they've beenexcluded.
There's a group that all playspickleball.
I don't play pickleball and abunch of other people don't play
pickleball, but the women whoplay pickleball, they all do
(28:51):
things together and we're stillfriends with them.
We do other things with them,but then they have their own
pickleball thing.
And I think that's been hard forsome of the friends who see them
all together and they're likewhy wasn't I invited?
And there's one reason becauseyou don't play pickleball with
them.
Yes.
It's a pickleball.
And so it's great to have thisreally big group in this support
(29:11):
system.
Like one of my good friends justwent through a real, her family
just went through somethingreally difficult and the group
came together to make meals forher and to do all these great
things for her.
And it was widespread howeverybody just wanted to do
that.
And it's so great to have thatvillage.
But then on the other side, youhave it where, when there is
such a big group that also cancome with issues where people
(29:32):
feel excluded or, have tostruggle with maintaining, their
confidence that it's notpersonal, that I wasn't invited
to that particular thing.
Kristen (29:42):
I think social media
makes it more in your face too,
because when people hanging out,normally if you didn't have
social media, you wouldn't knowwho was hanging out unless you
actually saw them in real life.
But social media, you see it andyou're like, oh, they're all
hanging out and they're hangingout without me.
But to your point, yes, there,somebody could be like off at a
constant, you're like, oh, theydidn't invite me.
Do you like that music?
(30:02):
Would you have gone?
No.
That's why they didn't inviteyou.
But for some people that isstill hard, right?
Because they want to be includedin everything.
The meme that went around a fewyears ago, it was like, I'm not
gonna go, but I still wanna beinvited.
Or something like that.
Exactly.
And it's, people just want beincluded.
And it can be hard, especially,until you get that through your
head that it's not personal.
It's not because they don't wantto invite me.
(30:23):
It could be a space thing.
It could be a time thing.
It could be an activity thing.
But we get so in our headsometimes that it's just, we
make it about ourselves becausethe world revolves around us.
We are the main character in ourmovie.
So we take everything that way.
And I think that's a huge thingto be able to get past that,
especially in friendships and tonot be so focused on yourself,
(30:43):
but to be open about otherexperiences,
Dana (30:46):
and I think it also can
just be something as simple as
when you have a big grouptogether, if you try to do a big
group dinner, it's a pain tomake reservations.
Yes.
You end up only talking to.
The three people that aresitting right near you at the
table anyway.
So if you've got 20 people at adinner, you're not gonna end up
really talking to all 20 of themanyway.
(31:07):
So what's wrong with having asmaller little gathering?
And then you can, then you'llend up getting together with
different people the next time.
And I think the bestconversations that I've had or
the times where I've reallyconnected with people is more of
a one-on-one.
Yes.
Or where there's only three orfour people together.
That's when you can really havelike deeper conversations,
(31:28):
really get to know people moreand everybody can share
something when you're out in abig group of 20 people, it's
more like small talk.
And it's just, it just makes itharder to communicate.
So I think, definitely having asmaller gathering is not ever to
intentionally leave certainpeople out.
It's more to just be able tocreate those bonds and enjoy
(31:49):
like a smaller little gatheringwith people.
Kristen (31:52):
Yeah.
Because the bigger it gets then,depending on who you're sitting
by and then I start worryinglike is having a good time?
Oh, over at the end of the tablelooks like nobody's talking to
her.
But I can't do anything'causeI'm here in the middle and it's
just, it's a whole thing.
And you're right, I find I dobetter one-on-one or like in
small groups of three or fourbecause like you said, it's
easier to open up.
We have, and there's twogirlfriends of mine and we go
(32:13):
out to sushi every month with alittle sushi squad.
Sometimes we go hiking and thenwe go to sushi.
It's a great time.
And we've posted on Facebookwhen we've gone out and people
are like, oh my gosh, I wouldlove to go.
Oh, I love sushi.
That's great.
We all love sushi.
Sure, you should all come.
But it's so hard, like the threeof us just finding one day a
month where just the three of uscan go together is hard.
(32:33):
Nevermind navigating like 17people who all wanna go eat
sushi with us.
So we talked about it last monthand we're like, look, here's
what we're gonna do.
All these people wanna be a partof it, that's fine.
We don't want to exclude anyone.
We are gonna find the date thatwe are going for sushi and we
will put it out this is wherewe're going to sushi.
This is when we're going tosushi.
Feel free to come by.
(32:54):
So it's it's almost like an openinvitation, but at the same
time, we know the three of usare still gonna be there.
People wanna come grab a tablenear us, we'll say hello, the
little niceties, hang out withthem kind of in smaller pieces
rather than trying to get areservation.
Because then also then there'ssome restaurants where oh, we
can only split your bill threeways.
Cool, there's 18 of us.
What are you gonna do with that?
(33:14):
So it's right.
Oh yeah, that's a
Dana (33:17):
pain too.
Yeah, we actually went to we hada birthday dinner with 11 people
last weekend, and when I madethe reservation and I said we
were gonna be separate checksand then they didn't end up
splitting the bill.
And so it was a disaster.
Yes.
Trying to figure it all out.
And finally we ended up justasking the woman Hey, you gotta
(33:38):
split this for us because wedon't wanna end up bickering
over it.
And it just was gonna turn intoa nightmare.
Yeah.
That can be a problem too.
Now, one of the other things Iwas hoping that we would touch
on a little bit is friendshipswhere you get stabbed in the
back.
Oh, yes.
Have you had that happen to you?
And how to handle it?
Yes, because I.
(34:01):
I've had this happen to me manytimes.
And like I said at the beginningof the podcast, there were times
where I handled that verypoorly.
And I had a situation not toolong ago where I was blindsided
by what someone did.
It was one of those things whereyou get to trust someone and you
really feel like this person hasmy back.
(34:22):
And when it becomes clear thatno, they actually don't.
You're like, oh my gosh.
And so that happened to me and Ihad to just cut it off and I
tried, to do it as nicely aspossible.
And then I got a little heatedand it got a little ugly.
But then after that I just said,look, like we need to just agree
to disagree, but I'm not, Ican't.
You hurt me.
This is what happened.
And she was hurt too.
(34:44):
And then it was like, let's justtell the truth.
And I, it took almost a year anda half before this person would
let it go.
Really?
And I was like.
I'm done with this.
Like I can be civil, like I'mdone with this.
And it would get back to me thatthis person did not wanna let
bygones be bygones.
(35:05):
And so I feel like I did thebest I could to, I tried really
hard to let it go when we wouldhave groups get togethers.
I did not talk about thisperson.
We had mutual friends and I justreally didn't want to keep it
going.
But it was so hard because I wasjust like, oh my gosh, why is
this coming up again?
(35:26):
And I, and then, now thateverything has is in the past, I
feel like even though it seemedlike some people maybe, took her
side or heard her side of thestory and didn't hear mine now I
feel like this person's truecolors.
Have shown to other people whonow see what I saw a couple
(35:48):
years ago, and I, it just mademe feel like vindicated in a
way.
And I can be proud of myselfthat I could have gone around
and saying all kinds of stuffand doing, yes.
I could have not taken the highroad.
Kristen (36:04):
So yes, I do think
taking the higher road is the
better way and you probably didthe right thing.
Not probably like I believe noteven knowing the situation you
did the right thing, because Ithink that goes back to the
maturity level also.
So I've had similar things wheremaybe not huge backstabbing, but
enough where you think you arein with a certain person or a
(36:25):
certain group.
You're like, yeah, these are mypeople, these are my friends.
You're doing life together andthen something happens and
you're like.
Wait a minute, that's not what Iexpected.
What's happening And for meanyway, I was like, am I the one
the wrong, are they the one thewrong?
What's going on?
And then it was a whole thing.
And like you just, I felt reallybroken from it for a while too.
(36:45):
And, but like you said, like I,I took the high road, like I
wasn't talking about it.
If it came up with other mutualfriends, I'm like, oh yeah,
we're not really friendsanymore.
Just kinda let it go.
'cause I didn't want to bring upwhoever was in the wrong, I
think, looking back now, therewere probably both of us had
parts to do with it, but tryingto not talk about it and just
(37:07):
let it go.
But it, I don't know.
It's just, it's so hard.
Like friendship breakups, Ithink on some aspects are almost
harder than relationshipbreakups.
Especially if you don't have areason in a relationship
breakup, it's I don't wanna bewith you anymore.
We're breaking up.
This is the reason.
Whatever.
There's like usually like somekind of break, even if you try
to be friends after,relationships are still over.
(37:27):
But friendships, I feel likethere's not usually a hard
break.
And if there is then it's veryclear.
But some of these ones that kindof have mushy breaks oh, she's
mad at me, or I'm mad at her, orThis happened, I feel like it's
not as clear.
And I don't know if there's aright or wrong way to really
handle them.
Because friendships are just somuch different than
(37:48):
relationships in many aspects.
Dana (37:50):
It really is.
And I also think that sometimeswith a friendship we're not as
likely to try to work it out.
Or to just say, Hey, you reallythis is what happened.
To deal with your feelings in arespectful and healthy way.
It's easier, I think, especiallywith friendships for women to
(38:11):
just be like, oh she tick me offand I'm just not gonna talk to
her.
Oh, she tick me off so I'm gonnabe passive aggressive.
Yes.
Or, oh, she tick me off so I'mgonna go and complain about her
to all these other friends and,stir the pot.
Until it, spirals outta controlor turn people against her, or I
wanna vent about my side of thestory to other people instead of
going directly to the person andsaying, Hey, here's why I am
(38:34):
upset with you.
Or Here's what happened that I'mnot happy about.
I feel like I was left out, or Ifeel like you didn't take my
feelings into consideration, or,I feel like you would've been
there for me on this, orwhatever the problem is.
I feel like a lot of times wedon't do that in friendships.
It's just, oh, she picked me offand I.
I'm just gonna be mad about it.
(38:55):
And the friendship instead ofhandling it in like the way
where you treat the other personwith respect and try to work it
out.
Kristen (39:01):
And in an environment
that we're in, again, social
media or even regular mediawhere it's almost like you're
taught to take sides.
Like even think back to LagunaBeach time, right?
Like you are either team Kristenor you with team LC, like there
was no middle ground.
And I feel like that we haveembraced that almost as women,
as part of our personality, thatyou can't see both sides of the
story.
You're either on her side oryou're on my side.
(39:22):
Pick your side and that Yes.
When something goes wrong.
Women will often go and try torally the troops and gather
their team so that they canfight the injustice that was
done towards them withoutactually looking at the big
picture and what's going on.
It's like even when we getmature, and I do think as we get
older it goes away a little bit,but I still think that it is
(39:43):
deep inside us sometime, andeven a little bit of that mean
girl mentality where, almostlike we have to get our team
with us so that we are in theright, even if we're not
Dana (39:54):
Right.
And it's hard not to do that.
I struggled with that a lot withthis situation that happened, a
couple of years ago where I hadmy close friends who I, who I
knew, like they knew thesituation.
Some of them were actuallyinvolved in it and who I could
vent to talk to about it.
But I lost sleep over thissituation for a long time and
felt like.
(40:15):
Everybody's talking about me.
Nobody likes me because of her.
And then I'm like, but I gottajust keep my mouth shut.
And, people continued to come tomy events and to spend time with
me and hang out with me, and wewould have a good time, and I
wouldn't bring it up at all.
And I think that ended up,working out in my favor, but it
was really hard to not wannatell my side of the story to
everyone because I felt like Iwas so wronged.
(40:36):
But, again, in the long run, itended up working out.
And I try to, I also tried tohave compassion for the other
person because I feel likethere's obviously things that
she's struggling with thatcaused her to act this way.
And even though the way that Ihandled it wasn't a hundred
percent I definitely could havekept my cool a little bit more,
but I feel like I, I let itbuild up and build up.
(40:58):
I finally said something, itdidn't go my way.
I got mad.
I just told her exactly how Ifelt.
And then after that I apologizedand said, Hey, I want peace.
Peace did not happen for a longtime.
Yeah.
Because I think some people justare insecure and they hold onto
things, but it's, it just, it'shard.
And then it made it hard for anumber of women who were friends
(41:21):
with both of us.
For them to navigate it, forthem to spend time with me,
probably wondering did shereally do this?
Yeah.
And wanting to maintain afriendship with me and then
maintaining a friendship withher where I believe that she
continued to talk about it quitea bit.
And, just feeling like they hadto pick a side.
Even though I said nobody askedto take my side, I just want
(41:42):
peace.
But I feel like it did put a lotof people in bad situations.
And then for those people whowere having an event, then they
have to navigate.
And this has happened quite abit, not just with this one
situation.
But now there's some othersituations.
Some women are fighting overpolitics right now within the
group because she voted for thisperson or whatever.
And so now that's become anissue where you had this whole
(42:04):
big group that could all gettogether and have fun, and now
you've got certain personalitiesthat don't me mesh with each
other.
And people feeling like they'vegot choose if I invite her, then
I can't invite her.
And it just creates a big mess.
When people have issues witheach other and it's really hard
(42:24):
to navigate that.
And that's why I almost feellike keeping your circle a
little bit smaller Yeah.
Might actually not be the worstthing.
Like you're never gonna be ableto be friends with everyone.
This idea that you can have thisbig group of 60 or 60 or a
hundred women that are allfriends with each other.
Like it is never going tohappen.
So keeping your circle small andjust learning.
(42:45):
Now I think I know who I cantrust with this group, like I've
gotten to know people enough toknow who's just got a good
heart, who wants to stay out ofthe nonsense?
Who wants to just be a goodperson and have a good time and
just go out and have fun and whothe people are that maybe are
gonna talk a little bit of trashor who are gonna have you tell
(43:05):
them something and they're gonnago tell somebody else when they
really shouldn't be doing that.
So I think it's taken a coupleof years, but I finally can see
that it's not that I don't likethese people, it's just that you
tend to realize the personalitytypes.
Kristen (43:19):
And
Dana (43:19):
who your people are and
who you can get along with and
who's out to maybe stir the potsometimes.
Kristen (43:25):
Yeah.
And I think it's good when youcan figure those out because
oftentimes people can be so fakeand you think that everybody's
your friend and you were talkingearlier.
You're worrying about are theytalking about me?
Are they saying things?
I believe when I moved away fromFlorida, I'd heard that people
were talking about me.
And it was really hard becausenobody actually knew what had
happened or my side of thestory, and I wasn't gonna get
involved with it.
(43:46):
And to hear people who maybeknew bits and pieces or didn't
know it all, I'm like, I'm gone.
Why are people even stilltalking about me?
It was a weird thing.
But I think it goes back to thepoint you're saying that,
everybody has stuff going ontheir life.
And I think some people do itout of the insecurities that
they have.
I know I've done it when myinsecurity was really high.
Like I was definitely a meangirl, and I admit it, and I've
(44:08):
moved on from it, I hope.
But no it's when you getinsecure, you try to point out
things in other people or shedthe light on somebody else or
make somebody else look worsethan you.
So I have to take it that way,that, it's not about me.
When people are talking about itthat way, there's something
going on with them.
And I have to remember that.
And I think to your point aboutthe smaller circles, I really do
think that's it.
(44:28):
But I feel like we're fed thisfalse reality that there are
huge groups of people and theydo life together.
And here they are vacationingtogether and here they are doing
this together.
And if you don't have this hugegroup, like you are nothing.
And that's something I strugglewith.
But to your point, I think a lotof that is fake.
Either faked or just fakefriendships or it's not true.
(44:51):
Like I really do find when youget that smaller group and
you're able to open up and shareyour vulnerableness with other
people and have them do thesame, that's when you really get
to the true level of friendshipsand those are your true friends.
It's just a matter of findingwho they are in the, in the
broad group, finding where thoseconnections are.
Yeah.
And then building off them.
Dana (45:12):
You just weed the bad
apples out, yes.
Or not that I should call anyonea bad apple.
But you figure out who yourpeople are and I totally agree
that so much of what we see onsocial media is fake as far as,
the friends and stuff like that.
Sometimes I'll see pictures andI'll be like, wait a minute, I
thought they last week theydidn't like each other.
And, and it's like I, I'vedefinitely had situations where
(45:36):
I'll have a bit of a conflictmaybe with someone and then we
work it out.
But sometimes I feel like, yeah.
I'm like, they were just, I justheard that they were going at
it, or that she's talking abouther and she's talking about her,
and then all of a sudden they'rehaving lunch together.
And everything seems fine.
And my hope is that the peoplethat I trust, that I consider my
good friends at this point, thatthey're not doing that with me
(45:59):
behind my back.
And I really don't think thatthey are.
And I also feel like,'cause I'vehad some conversations about
some of these, like dramasituations, I have had
conversations we do talk aboutit, but I feel like we're
talking about it more in like aanalysis kind of way, or what
must be going on here, or likethe complexities of trying to
(46:19):
navigate it as opposed to justtalking trash about people.
Or blaming people.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
I feel like there's there's adifference between trying to
figure out how to navigate thattype of stuff.
And just gossiping for the sakeof gossiping, right?
Kristen (46:35):
Yes.
Because when you're with yourtrue friends, it's like you're
trying to, like you said,analyze or break it down okay,
this is the situation.
This is what I'm feeling, theseare the actions I should take or
something.
And it's good to have friends tobounce that off of who can help
you navigate it, because theyalso may see it differently than
you are.
'cause sometimes when you'restill too close to a situation,
you're like, alright, this iswhat I think I should do, and
(46:57):
this is what I think I shouldsay.
But somebody who knows you andthe situation and you trust,
they could be like, okay, hangon.
Let's take a step back.
What if you did this instead?
And I think having those kind ofpeople as your confidants and as
advisors maybe instead of justgossiping with you.
I think that you do need thosepeople in your life when it
(47:18):
comes to situations Absolutely.
That are challenging like this.
Dana (47:22):
Definitely.
And one other thing that Iwanted to bring up this is just
a piece of advice for people whomight be listening, don't
unfriend people on Facebook,especially if it's because you
heard something about someoneand you didn't even have the
direct issue.
I've been unfriended by a coupleof people who all of a sudden I
just realized we weren't, we'renot friends anymore.
(47:42):
And this all has to do withstuff that I don't even know
what the problem is.
But now and it's happened to afew other people too.
But now what I feel like hashappened is because those people
unfriended me.
It's like now it's awkward.
You know what I mean?
Yes.
Like you could have whateverkind of beef you have with me if
you heard something that youdon't like.
(48:04):
Some of it may be political,some of it may be because of the
situation I mentioned earlierwith that person that I'm not
friends with anymore.
Like whatever the case may be,I'd realize I was unfriended.
And now that all this time haspassed and things have been
mended with certain othersituations, now the people who
have unfriended me, it's awkwardif I see them.
(48:25):
Or I feel like maybe they'reavoiding me or some other people
to say unfriended.
And it's what for?
What I now they made it awkward.
Yes.
Like I, I just, you can not likeme and still just stay Facebook
friends with me so that youdon't make it awkward.
Kristen (48:40):
Yes.
Because what's even more awkwardis after you find out they
unfriended you.
But then you get a friendrequest from them.
'cause that happened to me and Iwas like, oh wait, so you
unfriended me and now you wantto be my friend again?
This is interesting, right?
There's features.
Yeah.
That's happened to me too.
You can just hide people.
(49:00):
You don't have to see theirstuff.
You can hide them and still keepthe Facebook friendship there.
So it's not weird for anyone.
Dana (49:07):
Yeah.
I just feel like, especiallywhen there are people who
unfriended me because of whatsomebody else said, and now I'm
okay with that other person.
And now you're still avoiding meand they're still an awkward
thing there because youunfriended me and we, I don't
even really know exactly why.
Yes.
So it's just one of those likereally weird things where it's
(49:29):
not that deep.
Like it's not that much feelingyou need to unfriend me on
Facebook and then make it weird.
Yeah.
I don't know.
And I also think, like there wassomebody who who always played
bunko with us and then she gotupset about something that
happened and then she left thegroup and doesn't wanna come
back.
And then is upset that she's notincluded.
(49:49):
And I'm like, you got upsetabout one thing with one person.
And you let it all blow up inyour face.
Yeah.
So it's like where you, wherewhen you get involved with a big
group of women, you gotta nottake things personally.
Find your people, be nice toeveryone.
Yep.
And try not to let your emotionsget the best of you.
And overreact.
And I used to be the worst atthat.
(50:11):
I would get so upset, I'd lashout, I'd comment, I like slip
out, I'd unfriend people, Iblocked people.
I used to, because you witnessedit.
I used to get so mad and I justlearned over time and after
reading that book and doingtherapy, I was like.
I'm, maybe, I'm not to blame forwhat initially happened, but my
reactions and overreactions endup coming back to bite me in the
(50:35):
ass and me fighting and saying,you did this and I'm a good
person and I didn't do this toyou.
And you're a lot like thatdoesn't work.
Kristen (50:42):
No,
Dana (50:43):
it just doesn't work.
Kristen (50:44):
Now, do you remember
our fight, I dunno if I can even
call it that.
Do you remember when we didn'ttalk for a while?
When we were both in Florida?
Dana (50:53):
Oh, yes, I do remember
that.
And that was because I flippedout.
I think I, I flipped out oversomething and I don't remember
exactly what it was.
But I flipped out and then Iassumed that nobody wanted to be
my friend anymore.
Kristen (51:08):
Yeah.
So I can't remember what theevent was either, but I
remember, oh, I can't evenremember how long it was.
I remember when we got backtogether because I was so upset,
I was like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve she's so mad at me.
Again, don't know what happened.
Can't rehash it.
But I remember we were atLindsay's and I was like Dana's
gonna be there and I'm gonnahave to see her.
(51:28):
And Oh my gosh.
And I got there and you werethere.
And we really weren't talking.
'cause again, we weren'ttalking.
And I was like, this is so dumb.
And I was so brave that day.
'cause I am like one of the mostpassive people.
I don't engage in conflict.
I don't do this ever.
But I valued our friendship somuch that I went up to you.
We were like in her little likefoyer area.
And I was like, yes.
(51:48):
Oh, I remember.
Yeah, I remember
Dana (51:50):
it.
Yeah.
And I'm like,
Kristen (51:51):
are you mad at me for
something?
Or I don't even know exactlywhat I said, but I came up to
you and then like you explainedit.
And I was like, that's not whathappened.
And we had a whole talking outand then from there on we were
like, oh, okay.
And then we were, I mean I stillthink it took a little while for
us to rebuild that friendship'cause it was hard.
Like we were both hurt.
But then here we are now.
(52:12):
That was at least 10 years ago.
Longer actually.
Oh yeah, that was, yeah.
Dana (52:16):
Yeah.
It was probably longer than thatbecause the boys were still
like, baby Yeah, baby babies.
Yeah.
But I do remember that, and Iknow that, I'm pretty sure what
had happened was there was somedrama with some, and there were
some people in that group thatthey stirred up a lot of stuff.
And I was like, I engaged in it.
Like I didn't start it.
(52:37):
Yes.
But once they got under my skin,I fought back.
Kristen (52:41):
And
Dana (52:42):
I'm pretty sure that
somebody started something and I
got upset and I fired back andlike a comment on in the mom's
page or something.
I was so mad.
And after that happened I feltlike you and a few other people
didn't wanna be my friendanymore.
And I think I was also probablyembarrassed.
Because I knew that I lost mycool and that I was wrong and
(53:05):
then just assumed that youdidn't wanna talk to me anymore.
And then I totally remember thatwhen you approached me and I
remember feeling like relievedafter oh my gosh, she doesn't
hate me.
She still wants to be my friend.
Kristen (53:17):
Yay.
But,
Dana (53:19):
I look back and there was
some other stuff too that
happened, like with some of theother Facebook groups that I ran
when I lived here.
And I would, I, people would bejerks and I would let them get
under my skin.
And then I would end up lookinglike the crazy one, even though
I don't think I'm the crazy one.
I would just let idiots getunder my skin.
Yeah.
And I've really had to learnover time like how not to do
(53:40):
that.
And how to just be like, okay,let them, don't take it
personal.
This is on them, not me.
And just try to let it goinstead of fighting back all the
time.
Kristen (53:49):
Because you can't
control other people's actions.
The only thing you can controlis your reaction.
And I think that's the big thingis that it.
It's harder because I want tocontrol everybody else's action,
and I want to know why they'redoing what they're doing, but I
don't, and I can't read into it.
I just have to accept whatpeople do and then make sure
that I'm in control of how I'mresponding to it.
(54:12):
Like I said, let them
Dana (54:13):
and I want people to do
the right thing.
Like I want people to be nice toeach other.
I want people to do the rightthing.
I want people to be supportive.
I want people to show up foreach other and just do the right
thing.
And when I see that peoplearen't doing that, or if
somebody does something wrong tome, I would get so hurt and so
mad that I would end up losingmy cool completely.
(54:36):
Yes.
And then that just makes itworse.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then it snowballs.
Then there's
Kristen (54:39):
more issues, and then
there's more messes to clean up,
and then it's oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Dana (54:44):
Yeah.
And it never worked.
I just reached a point where I'mlike trying to defend myself and
stomp my feet and throw a fit.
It doesn't mean that the otherperson wasn't initially wrong.
But my reaction to it was alsowrong and just always made it
worse.
I'm not perfect.
None of us are perfect, but Ifeel like that was an area where
when we first became friendsthat I really struggled with.
(55:06):
And over time I think I'vereally grown from that.
And I try really hard not to letstuff like that get the best of
me.
Yep.
And not to overreact, not to letmy feelings be too hurt, or if
my feelings are hurt, I'll talkabout it one-on-one with a
friend that I trust.
And work it out instead ofthrowing a big fit.
Kristen (55:25):
Yeah, because the
longer you let things fester
too, like to your point oftalking about with a friend,
because I think you know whenyour feelings are hurt,'cause
they're going to get hurt.
'cause like you said, nobody'sperfect.
People are gonna do thingsintentionally or unintentionally
to hurt you.
It's going to happen.
But to be able to acknowledgethe hurt, like yes, this is
hurting my feelings, this is howthis action is affecting me.
(55:47):
But being able to talk about itand work through it rather than
just to, like I said, let itfester and eat at you.
And then you become bitter andthen you're mean to people.
Like it's a whole thing.
It's all about being open,whether it's directly with the
person who hurt you or withsomebody you trust.
I think you have to find a wayto acknowledge the feelings and
find a path to get through it orotherwise just gonna be
(56:07):
miserable.
Dana (56:09):
Definitely.
Definitely.
Kristen (56:12):
So as we wrap up here,
do you have any final stories or
final advice you'd wanna sharewith listeners who may be
struggling with adultfriendships?
Dana (56:23):
So I will wrap this up by
talking about my friend Stacy,
who I met, she came out to adinner that I hosted in November
of 2022, I think.
And she and I clicked that firstnight that we met, and then she
wanted to go see Titanic whenthe anniversary of Titanic.
(56:44):
Oh yeah.
Like they released it intheaters again.
And so we ended up going, andthis was like my first
one-on-one friend date.
And I don't even know how manyyears, like I'd done some group
gatherings and stuff like that,but this was like my first
one-on-one.
Oh my gosh, I'm gonna go out andlike with a friend and it's just
the two of us.
And I have these glasses thatwere broken that I wear to drive
(57:07):
and I drove and I was soembarrassed by the glasses.
I was like, my glasses arebroken.
I've had them since like 1999.
Don't make fun of me.
And she laughed.
Then we're in the movie theaterand we're watching Titanic.
And at the beginning of Titanic,when they're like showing all
the ruins, there was like a pairof broken like glasses that
looked just like my glasses.
(57:27):
And she like elbows me.
She's oh my God, it's yourglasses.
And she totally made fun of meand I don't know why, but just
the fact that that we had thatlittle funny thing.
And she like made fun of me andnow, it's been a couple of years
and we are super, super close.
She's so sweet and fun and wecheck in on each other every
day.
She's also divorced too.
(57:47):
So we're both single.
She's the friend that like.
She'll be like, do you wannacome over?
And I'll go over to my house,literally in like sweatpants?
Yes.
No makeup to have a glass ofwine talk.
I ended up just sleeping on hercouch a couple of weeks ago
because I was tired and hadwine, didn't wanna go home.
And she's just become like oneof like my closest friends.
And so for people that, arelooking for a friend you can
(58:11):
still find friendship even whenyou're older because we were 46,
our birthdays are very close toeach other.
Oh, wow.
So I wanna say we were 45, or wewere 45 when we met and became
friends.
So yeah, now I just feel likeshe and I will be friends
forever.
So there's hope if you're outthere looking for your person or
a really good friend.
Kristen (58:30):
I love that story'cause
I do feel like my whole life
I've been searching for this onetrue blue best friend.
'cause I had when I was youngerand I feel I'm supposed to
always have one.
And I think that was part of myproblem in making friends as an
adult, is that I tried to makeeveryone my best friend.
How you said at the beginning itwas like dating and you would
find somebody and you'd overlookthings so you could make it
(58:51):
work.
And for so long I think I wastrying to force.
A person, different people alongthe way.
'cause it never worked out to bemy best friend.
Because even on, again, socialmedia, oh, these are my besties,
here's my best.
I'm like, where's my bestie?
I'm in my thirties now, where'smy bestie here?
I'm in my forties and I stilldon't know that I have that one
true person, but I have a coupleof them which I can rely on for
(59:14):
the same thing.
Don't care if my house is clean,they can come over.
And I think it's, you're right,don't stop looking for friends.
Don't stop putting yourself outthere.
There are still great friends tobe out there, to be made.
And somebody may need you to betheir best friend too.
So always put yourself out thereand look for friends and build
community and connections.
'cause that's the best
Dana (59:33):
way to do life.
One more thing I wanna say aboutwhat you just said is that it
goes back to what Mel Robbinstalked about in her podcast,
that distance is a big factor.
Yes.
And I feel like you and I had areally great friendship and then
we both moved away and there wasdistance, but if we still lived
in the same neighborhood I feellike we would've continued to be
friends, like closer friends.
(59:54):
You know what I mean?
Yes.
Like we would've continued tohave that.
And now just because we don'tlive near each other, we're both
busy.
We can't do this and have a twohour conversation every day and
maintain that.
But I still consider you areally good friend, and I'm so
glad that we got to do this.
Kristen (01:00:07):
A hundred percent.
And I have thought the samething.
'cause even when you were livingin Maryland, I would travel for
work, I'd go to Virginia and Iwould always go up and see Dana
and we'd do dinner or Yeah, thetime I went over, spent the
night we had our planner party.
Like we were always gettingtogether and still trying to
make it work.
And we text and I do thinksometimes the distance is
distant, but agree, I still,count you as a friend.
(01:00:28):
I know I could reach out to youif I needed something.
If I were to show up in Florida,I know I could come over and if
you ever come to Missouri, youare welcome here.
Or we can meet somewhere in themiddle.
Like I would love to hang out, Iknow with you again, so let's
make that happen.
But yes, I think that whiledistance can maybe affect the
level of friendship, I don'tthink it necessarily takes away
(01:00:49):
from the people who are yourfriends.
And I value your friendship.
Dana (01:00:54):
I value yours too.
Thanks for having me on.
This is super fun.
Kristen (01:00:56):
No problem.
And if anybody wants to followyou, can we know where people
can reach out and find you.
Dana (01:01:03):
Yes, so I am on pretty
much all social media, Facebook,
Instagram.
I mostly use Facebook andInstagram at Dana McKay Radio.
Kristen (01:01:13):
That's awesome.
I'm sure everybody will reachout to you because you are the
best.
So thanks so much for joiningDana, and hopefully we'll talk
again soon.
Dana (01:01:22):
Yes, definitely.
Thanks for having me.