Episode Transcript
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Alexis (00:01):
Hey, everybody.
I've got Alexis here with metoday.
Hi, Alexis.
Hi, Kristen.
It's so good to be back.
And I'm excited to delve intothis topic today.
Kristen (00:11):
Yeah, I'm excited and
nervous.
Like I've been stressing out allday about this.
So friends, before we get intoit, I want to give you a heads
up that this is not an episodefor kids.
Unless you want to talk to themabout purity rings and true love
weights and why we were allafraid of kissing people before
marriage.
Cause we're going to talk likereal talk about purity culture,
(00:33):
how it shaped our views on sex,relationships, self worth, so
we're going to be talking aboutshame, intimacy.
And I'm learning a lot of themessages we grew up with.
So if that feels like it's goingto be too much, cause I know I'm
nervous about it.
If you need to take care ofyourself while you're listening,
if you need to take a pause,totally get it.
(00:53):
And if talking about sex makesyou uncomfortable, because it
does for me, just pretend it's2001 and we're at a sleepover
and we're whispering about it.
So nobody else can hear.
So it's just us.
It's just us here talking aboutit.
Not even a big deal.
Not even a big deal.
Because I'm freaking out.
But anyway so how did we gethere?
Last year I had read the bookPure Inside the Evangelical
(01:17):
Movement that Shamed aGeneration of Young Women and
How I Broke Free by Linda K.
Kline.
And it was one of the most Idon't know if inspirational is
the right word, but it is a bookthat I read that really hit home
because so many of the storiesthat she shared from her own
time and from the people sheinterviewed, like they were
(01:39):
sharing stories that felt likemy stories.
And it was one of those thingswhere I was like, Oh my gosh, it
wasn't just me.
Like other people are feelinglike this.
And it wasn't just what hadhappened in the past, but how it
was still affecting me now.
So the book goes over, the latenineties, early two thousands,
the purity culture, true loveweights, all the messages that
(02:00):
we were told.
And it really the shame and fearbased messaging that it
promoted, especially for youngwomen.
So I highly recommend that book.
I don't want to go too into ittoo much, because if this is a
topic that interests you, youshould totally go read it
yourself.
But I wanted to at least bringup like where this came about.
Okay.
And then Alexis and I werecasually talking a couple weeks
(02:22):
ago and then, had some similarviews to oh my gosh, that
affected you too.
This is something that if we areaffected by it, there are
probably other people out there.
And even if you didn't grow upthis way, you may be know
somebody that did, or maybeyou're just curious about it.
Or maybe Doggers have been onlike 18 Kids and Counting.
(02:43):
Or the one they had on Amazon,happy little people.
And you're just like, wow,that's a crazy lifestyle.
And first disclaimers too, thereis no judgment here.
However you want to believewhatever you do.
That is that you do you boo, buttoday Alexis and I are really
going to try to break down wherewe came from and how it was and
(03:04):
how it affected us.
So is that a pretty good openingsummary, Alexis?
Would you add anything that Imiss?
Alexis (03:09):
It is.
I think I think the one thingthat I would add is I do want to
add this disclaimer that I, am aborn again Christian.
So I do believe that God hasreasons for things and there is
much to be said in the Bibleregarding waiting for marriage
for sex.
(03:30):
But.
It needs to be framed in adifferent way, and that sex
isn't an evil thing, and I'msure we'll get into more of
that, but I don't want it to belike, oh, I think you should
just be proniscuous beforemarriage and whatever I do think
there is some biblical Aspectsto that and we'll get more into
it, but I don't want to just sayI'm negating everything that I
(03:53):
feel the Bible teaches becausethat's not it at all.
Kristen (03:56):
No, and I would agree
with that.
I don't think it's negating allof it.
I think for me, it's more.
how it was presented, the toneit was presented in, and just a
lot of things surrounding it.
Yes.
They're not biblical.
Yes.
And I don't think that wasnecessary to package it with.
So now we have to unpackage it,unpack it and deal with it.
(04:18):
Yep.
So first, when you're thinkingback, Alexis, how did you first
learn about purity culture?
What were some of the coremessages we were taught about
sex and relationships?
Alexis (04:32):
Yeah, so I think I
probably need to set the stage a
little bit different thanprobably like your average we'll
say church kid or youth groupkid because my, I attended a
public school up until aboutsixth grade and then I moved
into a private Christian school.
And at the time, my mom was bornagain, Christian.
but my I lived in a divorcedfamily, but my stepdad is like
(04:54):
my dad.
He is my dad.
He's always raised me and Idon't look at him any different,
but he was not did not acceptJesus as a savior until he was,
I was in like fifth or sixthgrade.
So we didn't grow up in thislike church atmosphere.
My parents had standards for us.
But it wasn't like like welistened to, during the time,
(05:16):
certain music would have beenconsidered awful in the church
that we attended, but I grew uplistening to that.
So it wasn't anything different.
When we, my dad was saved and westarted going to church on a
regular basis, that's when I wasintroduced to this as purity
culture, which is weird becauseWe didn't always practice this
(05:37):
at home, but I think my parentswere trying to almost come into
the church and do what thechurch wanted, almost like it
was like a peer pressure.
And keep in mind that a lot ofevangelical churches at the
time, like that we attended, Iwould consider them legalistic.
It was a lot of man made rulesand they weren't like biblical.
(05:57):
And so I think that's where Ifirst learned about it, but it
was foreign to me.
We can get more into this.
I don't know at what point youwant to talk about like clothing
was just that was this thinglike If you wear revealing
clothing as a girl, then likeyou're making a man stumble no,
that's not at all what the bibletalks about regarding modesty is
(06:18):
more than what you wear Themodesty is your heart.
It's your outward how youpresent yourself.
Are you humble?
It's a humble heart It's notjust like What you wear.
And it was confusing to mebecause my family grew up, we
grew up water skiing, so I wasin my bathing suit all weekend,
and that was definitely againsta purity culture in our church.
(06:39):
If that makes sense.
Oh, for sure.
Kristen (06:41):
Clothing was huge.
Yeah, you couldn't even wear abathing suit.
You'd have to like, wear a shirtover it, or wear culottes over
it, and culottes are like baggyshorts.
It's like a skirt that's sewntogether, so it's like shorts,
like gauchos, I think.
Culottes are crazy, but continuewith your story.
like
Alexis (07:00):
four times the size of,
yeah.
We had this and so you'rehearing this on Sunday mornings
and my parents don't necessarilyfollow this, but you feel like,
okay, maybe I need to do thisbecause that'll make me a better
Christian.
And I'm going to be closer toGod when.
Really?
That's not at all what the Bibleis saying.
And like it is important.
(07:21):
I don't want to, I'm not, thisis my personal belief.
So I do think like I shouldn'twalk around with my butt cheeks
hanging out and, my midriff.
So you can see the bottom of myboot cleavage, excuse my
language.
We are talking about sex, right?
But so there is a point, but I.
(07:42):
I'll never forget this story.
We went to a youth conferenceand this lady was talking to us
about modesty and her rule herhusband and hers rule, which
this is for them, but to bepreaching this to young kids was
just, Interesting andimpressionable
Kristen (07:59):
teenagers.
Alexis (08:00):
Yes.
If you can see the curves in thefront and the curves in the
back, then it's not modest andyou shouldn't be wearing it.
And that's just not at all.
It, at that point we were beingblamed for men's stumbling and.
Having impure thoughts andthat's just wrong to me.
At what point do they have aresponsibility?
Like you can, that's not at allwhat the Bible teaches.
(08:24):
And that's what I will alwaysjust go back to is there was
just so much shame put on us andresponsibility.
And it was like, where is themen's responsibility?
Where's the boys responsibility?
That's not okay.
And it's wrong.
It's just biblically incorrect.
Kristen (08:40):
100%.
And they made boys seem likethey were just like dumb cave
men who couldn't control theirthoughts.
Oh my gosh, if they see yourshoulder, they're just going to
want to rape you right there.
And that's your fault.
I remember I was wearing aspaghetti strap top, which
wasn't that real.
It didn't come down that low.
It was just the straps werethere.
And I remember my dad beinglike, Oh, you really need to be
(09:00):
careful.
When you go out wearingsomething like that.
And I'm like, something likewhat, like it's, I'm growing up
outside Pittsburgh.
It's 97 degrees outside.
I made that up.
I don't know what thetemperature was, but it was in
the summer.
It was hot.
I was just wearing summerclothes.
Yeah, for sure.
And I was just wearing, what aregular 16, 17 year old girl was
wearing.
I didn't put it on and think Oh,I'm going to seduce someone
(09:22):
today.
It was just like, it's hot.
It's summer.
This is what I'm wearing.
So yeah, the clothing thing washuge.
Alexis (09:29):
Boys can wear, they can
go out without their shirts.
Oh, yeah.
And I don't have any problemwith that.
I would never have a problemwith that now.
And so it's, but interestinglyenough And not to like, I'm not
trying to drag my family intothis, but interestingly enough,
my husband actually says ifwe're going to have the rules
for the girls, then the boysshould have the same rules,
which I actually admire becausehe was like, no if women can't
(09:50):
just walk around in like theirbathing suit top, then men
shouldn't just walk aroundwithout a shirt.
So funny enough, he doesn'tusually walk around a lot
without a shirt, which IWhatever, that's his thing.
But because of that, my boysdon't.
And I'm like, you can just takeoff your shirt.
It's hot, and my husband's yeah,I don't really like that.
And I'm like, okay, whatever,it's one of those things that we
have to deal with, but we'reseeing those effects still to
this day, but at least they'reeven, at least he's recognizing,
(10:11):
Hey, what's good for the womenis good for the men a thing, I
don't know.
I can at least appreciate thatcame out of it.
Sure.
Kristen (10:20):
I think my story is a
little bit different than yours
because I had grown up.
I was basically born into thechurch.
We were always a church.
And then I, when I startedschool in first grade, I started
a Christian school.
I went to Christian school mywhole life.
and it was all, there was alwaysa dress code.
It was always skirts.
It was always, look very good,like a good girl should.
(10:42):
And then when I got into, highschool and youth group, that's
when the purity culture, I don'tremember it being called purity
culture back then.
I remember it being true loveweights movement.
True love waits.
And I remember it would betalked about in chapel at
school.
We would have, people comethrough on, what did they call
(11:04):
it?
Like mission nights or whatever.
And people would come throughand they'd be our chapel speaker
and they talk about stuff.
And then in youth group, we'd goto youth rallies.
And I remember we went to one, Iwant to say it was at Slippery
Rock Baptist camp.
I can't remember for sure, butthis is like where I picture my
head.
We were in like one of thoselike camp auditorium things And
(11:25):
we made like the true love waitspledge and we got little cards
and we signed them and we'relike, you know I'm not having
sex till I'm married and allthis stuff But at the time I
don't think it was necessarilyAbout that not having sex again.
It was like if you have sexyou're sinning you're terrible
you're going to hell Again, Idon't know if those the words
that were used but it was justmade like this is the worst
(11:47):
possible thing Like when I wasyounger I probably thought that
I'd get in less trouble formurdering someone than for
sleeping with someone.
And I'm using that as ahyperbole I know that it's not
true, but they talk about that alot more.
Like of all the commandments, itwas more about don't have sex.
Like in the movie of mean girls,when he's don't have sex, you'll
(12:08):
get pregnant.
You will die.
That is literally what Ithought.
And that actually the pregnantpart Is more what kept me from
having sex than the biblicalpart because I was terrified of
getting pregnant oh my goshbeing a teen mom.
That's terrible.
Like I can't get pregnant and Iwas also so insecure.
I didn't want anybody like doingstuff with me there anyway, but
that's another topic.
(12:29):
But no, the pregnancy thingscared me interesting
Alexis (12:32):
to me, though, that's
interesting to me that you
thought about the pregnancy partbecause that's not what was ever
talked about there is a reasonbiblically we know there's, you
have STDs, you could havethere's an emotional connection
there there's a lot of thingsthat we know that can just
affect your life.
In pregnancy, but that's neverhow it was framed from at least
for me for the whole virginitything.
(12:52):
It was just this is acommandment.
You have to keep it a thing.
And it's wait a second.
I think had you shared otherthrough other reasons, the
emotional like the pregnancy andstuff.
I think it would have had a muchdeeper and better.
Effect and then more less scary.
Does that make sense?
Kristen (13:11):
Yeah.
No, I think you're right becausethat's more like an outward
Consequence like gettingpregnant is one thing but like
having God hate you foreverbecause you had sex is an
internal thing
Alexis (13:23):
And it's not even true
like that part God hating you
because you did that isn't evena thing like We know that that's
just but it was never framed.
It's like It's so simple.
It's it was like the worst thingin the world at the point.
Yeah, it was worse than I, likeyou said, the murder.
So yeah.
Kristen (13:37):
Yeah.
And I was so all in, like I wasyay abstinence.
Like I had friends that had truelove weights.
I wrote an entire paper, which Ifound recently.
I wrote a paper about howabstinence was the only
prevention to teen pregnancy.
And.
It was actually a very wonderfulpaper.
I will pull it out again and seewhat grade I got on it.
Very proud of that paper, butalso still writing about sex was
(13:59):
weird for me because the factthat I'm even saying the word
sex is very uncomfortable for mestill.
Like I am very, I am some mayuse the word Rude ish perhaps?
That like I don't you and I'vetalked about it in other things
too like I'm not into spicybooks like it still makes me
very uncomfortable and I think alot of it is because of I'm
(14:20):
using this term loosely, but thebrainwashing of my youth I feel
like that's why I have certainopinions and feelings still
towards sex because of this.
Alexis (14:32):
Yeah.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
I think I don't have thoseexperiences because they didn't
have all of that.
So I had another aspect of thatand a little more different diet
family dynamic with my parentsand some of the stuff that we
were taught, but it'scontradictory.
So you have to, I had to unpackwhat really was, but I think.
(14:53):
There was a time as a teenagerwhen we were really in church
and like all their sex wasscary.
Sex was like a bad thing.
It was scary.
And I think as we know, it's notthe case, sex is wonderful, and
I'm saying this it's a goodthing, women should be, enjoy
it, they should be empowered, itis a good and wonderful thing in
(15:14):
the confines of marriage, and,obviously, if you're not in the
confines of marriage, we knowthat there's emotional pain.
Problems but marriage sex withinmarriage is so amazing that it's
hard to Let go of that becauseyou've been taught like oh, it's
so bad for so long.
It really is something that youhave to Let go and it's hard and
(15:34):
it's I don't think everybody'sable to do it that has grown up
in this culture So I can seethat
Kristen (15:40):
Now, before we get too
far into the here and now, let's
still reminisce back a littlebit and in the times, are there
other things within the culturethat kind of reinforced it?
Did you, what was the book?
The Josh Harris, I Kissed DatingGoodbye.
Was that ever big where youwere?
I
Alexis (15:58):
think it was, but I
never read it and I didn't ever
do it.
I'm like looking back at thecollege years, because keep in
mind that when we went to thecollege years, those same ideas
would have been still carriedover for us code that we had to
do to even the Christian, otherChristian colleges that we did.
Couples could hold hands wherewe went to college.
(16:20):
And that was like a blast forme.
If you remember right, we wereconsidered a very liberal
Christian college when inreality we weren't because you
could hold hands and just thefact that we could leave campus
with boys was like, unheard of.
Other colleges, definitely,Christian colleges definitely
didn't do that.
Keep in mind, I specificallychose Clearwater for some of
(16:44):
those things when my familywanted me to go to Christian
college and I am like, I'm notgoing to that one.
And I'm definitely not going tothat one.
But Clearwater, ooh, I can, Ican get on board with that.
I had some other extenuatingcircumstances with that, but
that was like a thing and Ithink even in those formative
college years, that pressure,even remember, we had to get our
clothes checked for formals.
(17:05):
For our fine arts formals.
I forgot about that.
And can we not like, yeah.
And all the dresses were
Kristen (17:15):
ruined anyway because
we'd have to put a sweater over
all of them so our shouldersweren't seen.
Not ruined, but I'm just sayingyou didn't get the full effect
of the dress because you had towear like a shawl or a sweater.
So you're just covering up yourdresses.
Alexis (17:29):
And I remember having to
bend over and making sure that
it wasn't going to like, bendover in front of all these
teachers.
And it's the whole idea ofshame.
Oh my word, my body is likeshameful.
I think that those are suchformative years, even after high
school and those college years,that it just adds to it.
Another layer of
Kristen (17:49):
shame.
Yeah, because you're enteringyour young adulthood then too.
Like you're already establishingyour own core beliefs and values
and Self worth really like whatwho are you and what are you?
It's pivotal moment and that'swhen they're putting all of that
on you.
Alexis (18:07):
You know, that's funny
because now that we're actually
sitting here talking about thisthe way I dress now You is
definitely different than myfamily.
I have very, I don't wear tanktops.
And I think some of that now I'mthinking about it.
Wow.
Like it really does go back tocollege and high school and what
I couldn't wear because ofschool, not necessarily what my
(18:30):
family wanted, but because Icouldn't, and because I feel
uncomfortable, some of it is,has to do with just my weight
and my body, but I really justDon't wear those kind of things
because there's just thisinternal thing still, which is
funny to me as we're unpackingthis, me thinking through that.
Kristen (18:45):
Yeah, sticking on the
dress code for a minute.
Do you remember at Clearwater,like, how many fingers something
could be below your collarbone?
Alexis (18:52):
Three.
Kristen (18:53):
Okay.
So I'm like, it was three orfour.
Yeah.
And for the longest time, Iwould still do that.
Maybe it was four.
Three or four.
I thought it was four, but itmay have been three.
Yeah.
I don't anymore.
Like I did for a while and I'dbe like, Oh my gosh, this is
very low.
And now it's whatever.
It's like the, one of the bestparts of my body is right there.
So let's show that part off.
(19:14):
I am okay with wearing revealingclothes there.
Alexis (19:18):
Yeah.
That, and that's the funny part.
And now that you think about it,it is, I.
That is really something.
And what's funny is my daughterI don't ever really pay
attention.
Like I care what she wears, butI guess that I don't necessarily
put those things on her, so shenever knows anything and she
picks out her clothes and yeah.
My parents had standards, but itwas always what school wanted or
(19:41):
something like that.
So this wasn't a, I don't know.
I actually remember my, I, whenI did my senior pictures,
because keep in mind at thetime, senior pictures, you
could, it was like a thing towear your formal dress, right?
That you might've wore for likecollege.
So I wore a formal dress and itwas like strapless.
It had no straps and I got somuch.
(20:03):
Crap for it even from my highschool boyfriend at the time if
I remember right and lookingback I'm like, I could have
never imagined covering it upand it looks so nice like it's
not anything like there'snothing revealing about it.
It's actually really pretty likeit looks good Like they're
probably some of my favoritephotos of myself and I don't
(20:25):
think I would never dress likethat.
Now, even my wedding dress, Iwore it was, I picked it out.
I actually liked it, but it wasvery covering, and I think it
all goes back to that wholepurity culture and being modest
in your, what you wear, andthere was too much focus on
that.
Kristen (20:42):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Now, question on your seniorpicture.
Did you pose with a tree?
No.
Okay.
Like most I've even seen itgoing on.
There was a trend for a while toan Instagram.
It was like showing your yourhigh school pictures from the
early two thousands or whatever.
And it's here we are with atree.
Here we are at the train tracks.
Here we are.
Like, it was just like, Oh mygosh, everybody did that.
I didn't mind we're in a studio,but I know a lot of other people
(21:04):
did do that.
Alexis (21:05):
It was, yeah, it was a
studio.
So it was very, just veryflattering.
Probably, honestly, as aphotographer myself I would take
something like that, whatever,like the, my, whoever would want
to wear, whatever they wouldwant to wear in a studio.
It was very just plain and justa very good, like headshot
portrait, nice senior photo.
And then I had some casual ones,of course, but those are my
(21:25):
favorite.
Kristen (21:26):
I love that.
So going back to college then,gee, I don't know if you were
there for it or not, but theyhad, it was a night time.
I don't know if it was adevotional or they got all the
girls together and Mrs.
Stratton talked to us.
Do you remember this?
I'll keep going with the story.
Keep going.
Okay.
Maybe I'll remember.
It might not have been when Iwas there.
And I'm pretty sure it was Mrs.
(21:46):
Stratton and she, I don't knowwhat the topic was.
Probably something along theselines.
But I remember a specificstatement that she made and she
was like, on your wedding night,you're either going to be the
girl dancing on the piano or thegirl hiding in the bathroom.
And I think the intent was thatlike, once you get married,
(22:08):
you're either going to be all inor you're going to be scared of
it.
I wish I could remember what theactual context was and why this
is the only thing that stuckwith me.
And it's crazy that's evenshared because how are you
supposed to be the girl dancingon the piano, like all in when
you've been told for so longthat it's so terrible and you've
(22:29):
been shamed about your body andwhat you can do with your body.
I don't know.
It's just.
It's hard for me to think aboutthat.
Alexis (22:38):
Yeah, that's
interesting.
I think in and of itself, thatis just looking back at it, I
don't even know that was herplace to even share that kind of
stuff.
That should be stuff that yourmother shares with you.
Okay.
Maybe you're different.
Kristen (22:53):
Let me tell you this.
I was going to ask you to whatyour sex education was at home,
because the only thing Iremember being told, and this is
nothing against my parents.
I love my parents.
I remember my mom telling meagain, I remember one line I was
in the kitchen, I don't knowwhen it was or why it was.
I think I might have been goingout with high school boyfriend
or something.
And she says to me, let'spretend there's an aspirin
between your knees.
(23:14):
So you keep your legs closed.
That was the sex education Igot.
Keep your legs closed, which Isuppose is good advice, although
there's still a bunch of stuffyou can do even with your legs
closed, so okay, but I justremember okay, and I was so
embarrassed then too.
The fact that my parents wouldeven say anything to me, like
this is crazy.
Like everything was just sohushed for me and I think that
(23:36):
made it harder too.
So I was even more, I've alreadyused the word impressionable,
but I was more like justembarrassed.
naive and just I don't know, I,it, I think it was all just a
lot harder for me because I tookeverything the way that I did.
Alexis (23:52):
Yeah.
So keep in mind, I went topublic school, so we had puberty
classes starting in like fourthgrade.
Now you can take it what youwant now.
I understand why the publicschools do this.
Do I necessarily agree with thisnow as being a parent of my, for
myself, the way they do it now?
Absolutely not.
Because I think it's talks wayyounger, And to be honest with
(24:15):
you, we do things completelydifferent.
And that's probably somethingfor later in the conversation of
maybe how you address it.
But my, we did do that.
My mom came to those classeswith us, which I highly thought
was really awesome.
So we started this in fourthgrade.
And by the time you're in sixthgrade, you're learning about the
opposite gender and things likethat.
(24:36):
And that's a whole we can delveinto more of that later for What
it would be now.
But also sex for, in my family,in the confines of marriage, it
was never like discouraged inthat.
So my parents both had childrenout of wedlock.
And so there was always like,These actions have consequences.
(24:58):
You are not like a badconsequence from our actions,
but it made our life harder inour, in those early years.
And we struggled.
And we as kids knew that becausewe had lived with our parents.
And so we had seen that fromlike a broken home situation to
that.
But in the confines ofparentage, like it was like, Sex
(25:23):
was like, it was a good thing.
It wasn't like a bad thing andthere was nothing wrong to be
shamed of.
Like my mom, when, we were olderand, engaged or dating, we
talked about sex and it wasn't ascary thing by that point.
And We can get into the wholetopic of lingerie.
That was like, yeah, you shouldlike, if you are interested in
that, do that.
(25:43):
When I think there's some shame,even in the purity culture of
like lingerie is so bad.
And it's like that, no, it'sreally not.
And it can be such a wonderfultool in your marriage.
So yeah.
I think I was blessed in that Ididn't get like I wish I would
have had a little bit moredetail, but I think probably my
parents just didn't have thingsare different.
(26:04):
I think we parent different nowbecause we know better and they
even parented different thantheir parents did.
But I feel like I was lucky andI got.
the purity culture, but then Ialso had my parents influence to
make it not so scary, but itmight have just come through in
like my dress.
Does that make sense?
Kristen (26:23):
Yeah, it's almost like
you had a more balanced
approach.
Like it wasn't all doom andgloom and hellfire and brimstone
for you.
Alexis (26:32):
Yeah.
And it wasn't like, it was justlike, it was like, there was a
known time.
Like my parents, people get Ohno, your parents have sex.
Yeah.
Hello.
You think I do?
Of course they have this and itshouldn't be a, like a bad
thing.
Obviously we're not going to belike.
Showing it to the world, but itwas just a kind of a known fact
and it wasn't a shameful thingwhere, people probably think,
(26:53):
ew, gross, my parents, buthello, you got here, it's not
that gross, I don't know, I lookat it probably a little
different than everybody elsebecause I think I probably had
that balanced approach and myparents didn't make it shameful
But I think probably before theytalked to me more in that high
school time, it did feelshameful, if that makes sense.
Kristen (27:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, I can see that.
Because I'm trying to thinkback, I feel like it was all
just negative for me.
The stuff that I was given inschool and church and youth
group, the thing is, though, isthat on the other side, my
parents were very open withletting me read whatever, so I
was reading Teen and YM andSeventeen, and there was stuff
(27:37):
in there, there'd be questionsabout birth control or sex, so I
knew what it was, like, therewas probably even stuff like
tips of how to give a goodblowjob I was reading all that,
and may or may not have beenengaging in some of the
activities but like for me, itwas just like, so I feel like I
got a balanced approach like youdid too, but not the same way,
because even though I wasreading about that in the
(27:59):
magazines and possibly engagingin some activities that wasn't
the main messaging that I wasgetting reinforced over and over
again.
Alexis (28:10):
Yeah, no, and that's
it's such a balance and I think
maybe that's where you have tostart to unpack like this isn't
right and like this is that nowand I think we've talked about
this a little bit with booksLike I really like I don't like
smut There are a lot of reallylike series like, the Empirion
series with fourth wing andstuff I love those books, but I
(28:33):
don't love it for the romanticScenes in it.
There is romance in the booksand I enjoy that, but I like it
for the overarching.
So I will skip it because Ithink there is a little bit of
shame.
And I honestly, it's this issomething that you have to, it's
a personal thing, but it'salmost like porn for women.
And I'm not about that because Idon't think porn is a good
(28:54):
thing.
I don't think it's biblical.
It's not, there's nothing.
Sex in the confines of marriage,it doesn't fit that in that good
part of it.
So I, I don't always like that.
And I know that, there's somejudgment of why don't you, you
should just not read them.
If that stuff's in there.
It's here's the thing.
It's one or 3 percent of thebook.
Like I've actually looked at thebooks and it's a tiny amount.
I can skip the chapter and Igladly do and still know what's
(29:17):
going on the book and stillenjoy the book.
There's nothing wrong with that.
If that makes sense, at leastfor me, that's my conviction.
No, I get that.
I think it's good.
I actually think that We needmore books to explore this topic
of, sex in the confines ofmarriage, not explicit.
It doesn't need to be superspicy and all that, but it does
(29:37):
I think there, I think women cansee more of that.
And It's not a bad thing.
I think if we see that, we moveaway from that purity culture of
sex is bad.
Yeah.
Because
Kristen (29:49):
you become more
normalizing it.
There's so much just stuff that,is still shamed.
And my, my thing on sex in thebooks, I'm going to if it
enhances the story or if there'sa reason for it, I don't want to
read it just for the heck of it.
And this doesn't make me seemeven more weird, but I'm really
particular about the words theyuse for it.
I swear, there's Sometimes whereit's he put his throbbing
(30:10):
manhood deep inside my tunnel oflove or like some crap like
that.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel soawkward.
I'd much rather you just say hispenis went in my vagina and we
orgasm.
Let's just use regular words,you guys.
Oh my gosh, you know how hard itwas for me to say all those
words in a row.
I think I'm blushing right now.
Alexis (30:28):
But and see, and I don't
love that in books because I
don't feel like it's necessary.
I think you could just say theywent to bed.
Yeah, closed door romance, moreclosed door romance.
Yes.
I'm not going to freak out, buthonestly, I'll just get the page
because I don't need to readthat because that's not, I don't
need to think about this couple.
That's not, does that makesense?
Yeah,
Kristen (30:47):
no, I get that.
And back to the shame thing,cause I think that's where I
really struggle with is even inthe confines of marriage.
Okay.
And even when something happensor we're doing something like in
the moment, it's good, great,whatever.
And then I'm thinking about itafter I feel dirty.
Not even if we've done anythingactual dirty and I know this
sounds weird.
It's hard for me to explain itbecause I want to, keep the
(31:09):
privacy of my marriage still,but just talking about the
feelings that I have, that Istill feel dirty after doing
things.
And I don't know how to get pastthat.
I very much enjoy dirty talkhere.
We'll get a little personal butI am not good at it because I
will try and I'm like, Oh mygosh, I sound like an idiot.
Oh my gosh, this is so dumb.
Oh my gosh, I am so embarrassed.
(31:29):
And with my husband, like he isseen and knows and everything
right?
I should be comfortable and I'mnot and it is so hard for me and
I think this is why I ended upreading the book last year too
because I'm like, what is wrongwith me?
Like, why is it this mentalthing that I just can't get
past?
And that's where it came from.
Like, all this shame, the yearsand years of being reinforced.
(31:52):
That sex is bad.
Dirty talk is wrong.
You shouldn't be doing this.
Don't do that.
Don't ever do this.
Like all those things are stillmessages that are like burned in
my brain.
And even though in the thinkingpart of my brain says, that's
not true, Kristen, this isperfectly normal.
Everything is fine.
You are not a bad person.
(32:14):
This is wonderful.
It's like the other part of meis you're a sinner.
You're disgusting.
That's gross.
Eww.
And I struggle with those partsof me and it's been very
challenging.
Alexis (32:25):
I think that is normal
in married sex life.
I think everybody has theirthings that they enjoy and they
have their things that theydon't enjoy.
There are things that peoplewill say, oh, it's fine.
And I'm just like, no, not that.
I'm not about that.
And nope, we are not doing that.
And I think there's okay.
It's okay to have boundaries.
I know you've been talking aboutboundaries with.
(32:46):
Yeah.
In your previous episodes, Ithink that you can have those.
I think I think that as your, asa partner, you also have to
respect another person'sboundaries and they need to
respect your boundaries.
And obviously, I don't know yourmarriage, but I can say in my
marriage, that's always been thecase.
There's always been respect asfar as that.
I also am a big proponent oftrying things.
(33:07):
You might not know if you don'tlike it, so try it.
So I think, I do think that'snormal.
I think there's some things thatare normal.
I think, and I think as couples,you grow in it.
I also think talking about it,this is going to sound weird,
but I do think talking aboutthose things outside of the
bedroom and just saying, Hey,like I'm really uncomfortable.
(33:29):
And then you have anunderstanding with your partner
when you do are intimate Hey,this person is struggling with
this.
How can I help them?
And I know the back history, soit doesn't feel and cause
resentment because I know thatcan, sometimes affect your sex
life.
And that's hard.
So I don't know.
It's hard.
It's hard for me to say too muchon this because if I'm honest,
(33:50):
my husband and I do not have aproblem with our sex life.
It's actually always been reallygood.
And I don't ever want to throwhim under the bus or anything,
but it's really We've just neverhad those problems.
If anything, I just have a bodysecurity issue, like in clothing
or other things yeah, Iwouldn't, don't want to wear
that.
I'm just miserably hot.
So I'm going to make you allmiserable because I'm cranky
(34:12):
because I don't actually want towear clothes that might be
comfortable because.
Of like a stigma with likepurity culture in that.
That's not something that Ishould show, so I think mine
might manifest in a differentway.
For me, but, and I'm justrealizing that now as we're
talking.
So see, that's what we're doing.
Cheaper than therapy.
(34:32):
Yes.
We are
Kristen (34:33):
unpacking.
And I like that you brought upthe communication piece because
how has purity cultureinfluenced our ability to
communicate about sex, pleasureand boundaries with our spouse?
I feel like you were alreadytalking about that, but I don't
know if you have any more toanswer that question.
Alexis (34:49):
Yeah, so I don't I mean
I'm pretty open and honest with
my husband regarding that and Ithink he is with me too.
And we have had He probablycomes from a little bit more
Purity culture probablyinfluenced him More than it
influenced me within the churchbecause he came from that and I
think from a guy's perspectiveso it was a little bit hard I
(35:10):
think when our first marriagebecause i'm like all about it
and he's that's not normalbecause if you feel like women
aren't, like that's not yourrole, but I have a very, I'm
just going to be blunt.
I have a higher sex drive thanmost women.
Like we know this, I can counton, I'm not going to, I'll just
be blunt and honest.
It's not unheard of for myhusband and I to have sex.
(35:30):
That's really important for acouple in their, late 30s,
pushing 40s.
That's not normal.
And when we were younger, evenit was more.
And I'm not, that's not normal.
It's just not normal.
Yeah.
I don't know if maybe I havehormone issues, but like the
good
Kristen (35:49):
kind, like he's winning
with those hormone issues.
Alexis (35:52):
I will say the more sex
you have, I think the more you
want it.
There really is something tothat and that's just, how it is.
And we don't.
But it took, I don't know, Ithink it was a little bit of
weird for him because that's nothow the church made it out.
Like women don't want tonecessarily have sex and you're
gonna have to lead them in thisand that's not always been the
(36:14):
case in our relationship.
Kristen (36:17):
So I get that.
So for me, and I already did,mention it, I do feel in some
aspect it has affected myability to communicate.
Now I'm the kind of girl thatI'm like, I'll try anything
once.
If I like it, I'll try it again.
If not, then I won't.
So And I am okay communicatingthose kind of things, and I'm
usually open about other thingstoo I like this, I don't like
(36:39):
that.
I do want to try this, I don'twant to do that.
But I think just talking aboutsex is still hard for me, which
I know sounds weird because nowI've said sex how many times?
I'm getting better.
I'm getting better! Yeah!Therapy! We're getting there!
Yeah, but I am stilluncomfortable.
If he wants to talk about it thenext day Oh, la, about last
night.
(36:59):
I'm like, no, I don't want totalk about it! If I'm in the
moment, and my brain is there.
Oh, we have those.
Oh, you do?
I
Alexis (37:04):
have those moments where
like he's yeah, and about last
night.
I'm like, yeah, let's not talkabout i'm done Yes,
Kristen (37:10):
Like I was I could get
there in the moment.
It was wonderful.
It was lovely.
Thank you.
Enjoyed it let's never talkabout it again
Alexis (37:17):
Right or we can talk
about that the next time but i'm
we're moved on to kids life Thatpart of my brain is completely
Closed for the moment.
Like I have that.
So you're not, I think maybethat's normal, but I don't know.
I
Kristen (37:30):
know, I think either
we're both normal or both crazy,
but we're in it together.
So that's cool.
Okay.
Moving on a little bit then,like we've talked about the past
and how it happened and where weare now, but when you're
thinking back from thattransition to our young lives,
learning it all, and then where,when did you start questioning
purity culture or what led tothose realizations?
Alexis (37:54):
To be honest, I would
say only in the past five years
when I just was like okay, so asmy children have gotten older
and we needed to have thesediscussions, I think that's when
I recognized, waiting untilyou're like, eight to teach
about sex and how babies aremade is absolutely wrong way to
(38:17):
do it and at least For our homei'm going to preface this and
say this is how we teach ourkids.
It's not necessarily for othersSo I think that's when I
recognize there needs to be adeeper issue about this.
So my kids we've alwaysdiscussed Reproduction from the
time they are little, likethere's an egg, there's a seed,
(38:37):
and as they get older, they justget more layers to it.
So it's not so shocking whenthey get to be teenagers.
And I think my kids have alwaysknown about periods, even my
boys, because I want them to becompassionate.
Yes, I've done that with minetoo.
I want them to understand.
Yeah And when my daughter, I hadto explain to her about, periods
and sex and stuff.
I didn't want to scare her.
(38:58):
I said, listen, you're going toget your period.
You can now have babies.
You're how old?
I don't want to, I don't want totell her, but I want to say you
have to be careful.
Like you are now have theability, but I don't want you to
be scared of sex.
It is not a set.
It is not a scary thing.
It is a wonderful thing in theconfines of marriage.
And I just want you to know.
(39:19):
You may screw up, and I willstill love you for who you are,
and God will still love you.
I don't want to do that.
So I think that's when Irecognized we have to teach sex
differently.
Also, I think people will findthis statistic shocking, and it
gets lower each year.
The average child, just becauseof the internet, sees porn by
(39:40):
the time they're seven yearsold.
Oh my gosh.
Seven.
That's insane.
Yeah, you should really behaving these conversations
regarding porn and just sex wellbefore they're teenagers because
it doesn't matter how shelteredof a life you live.
You can have sheltered lives.
If your kids are around theinternet, you will see it.
I know kids that have been atchurch youth group and the boys
(40:04):
are sitting there watching pornon their phone.
And It happens.
It happens in youth groupsettings.
It happens nowhere.
Nobody is immune to it.
I don't care who you are.
I don't care, what it is.
So that is having kids is when Irecognize we have to go about
this different.
And that's, those are really thereasons why I came to those
(40:24):
decisions, if that makes sense.
Kristen (40:26):
Yeah, no, I get that.
Yeah, and something you saidreminded me to, I wonder if when
they were teaching us, theybeing, the church and everyone
involved in purity culture backthen, I wonder if they were
teaching us through fear becausethey didn't know any other way.
Because I don't know how they, alot of them were probably coming
(40:46):
of age during the make love, notwar, like all the hippie stuff
in the sixties and seventiesfree love.
And they probably did see a lotof really bad stuff and STDs and
all of that.
And maybe that was just theirway of trying to protect us.
Oh my gosh, this is like anepiphany I am having in real
time.
And maybe it wasn't necessarily.
(41:09):
To scare us and screw us upforever.
But because they were so scaredof everything they went through
and wanting to protect us andscaring us was the only way to
do it.
I don't think they probablydidn't use the word scare.
I don't think they wereintentionally trying to use
scare tactics.
But that's how we've been taughtwith other things, too.
(41:30):
Like drugs.
There was that commercial on TVwith the egg in the frying pan,
right?
This is your brain.
This is your brain on drugs.
Everything was really taught inscare tactics.
Oh, if you don't look both waysbefore you cross the street,
you're going to get hit by abus.
Everything was just taught.
Alexis (41:46):
Even if you just talk
about getting saved, it was like
a fear brimstone, like you'regoing to hell.
There wasn't a that was the kindof you have to do this or you're
like a sinner.
It was just so legalistic, butit was scary rather than a
relationship or a, Anunderstanding like there's a
reason for this.
(42:06):
It's not just because we do.
We say these things because welove you because there's
consequences, not just like thisis said, you're right.
I think it was a fear or a scaretactic rather than a
relationship.
Kind of a thing.
Kristen (42:19):
And they focus so much
on the scaring and the shaming,
which I know we've said shaminga lot and I wish I could think
of another word for it, butthat's like what girls were
taught.
It was like, if you have sex,every time you have sex or do
something with someone, you'rebasically like a piece of gum
and you're being chewed up andspit out and nobody's going to
(42:41):
want a piece of chewed gum.
Like you're used, you're gross,like nobody's ever going to want
you unless you're pure and,virginal, nobody's going to want
you.
And I think that was part of ittoo.
So okay, not only is sexterrible and I should be afraid
of it.
It also makes me less of aperson if I've done it with
(43:02):
somebody else.
And then, oh no, if you've doneit with even more people, you're
giving a part of yourself everytime you do it with someone and
you're not gonna have anythingto give your husband and he's
not gonna love you.
Like all the messages that wereover and over it, it's like it
was all to make us feel likeabsolute garbage, which I wanna
(43:25):
give them the benefit of thedoubt, and that wasn't their
intention and they didn't knowthe long-term effects it was
going to have on me.
But I think, as I'm even justtalking about it now that's a
really crappy way to tellsomeone.
And I,
Alexis (43:39):
It's not in and of
itself isn't even biblical.
We know that no matter what,that's not who we are.
God loves us for who we are.
And we are precious in his sightas women.
It's just not even a this isn'teven that's the hard part in
that.
There was almost a fear likeGod, like you feared God because
of it, rather than recognizingthat personal friendship
(44:01):
relationship, the love of whoGod is, not saying, he doesn't
have standards because he does,but the love was missing from
it, if that makes sense.
Yeah, no, I get
Kristen (44:13):
that.
Alexis (44:14):
And I think you hit the
nail on the head with the fear
and I think you're right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's a good summary of
Kristen (44:21):
it and it's what they
use and it had multi layers to
like, because, be the good girl,you're a good girl.
You should be a good girl.
And I think even.
That and this is a whole episodein itself, but a lot of that
really led to my people pleasingtendencies to and the, okay,
good girls.
Don't do this.
Girl.
Girls.
Don't do that.
You're a good girl.
(44:41):
Do this.
Do that.
Don't do this.
Don't do that.
And I think a lot of it is justreally messed me up.
Alexis (44:48):
But, oh, go ahead.
Are you going to say something?
No, I can.
I can relate.
I think It's deeper.
And I think it, it permeates nowthat we're talking into other
things outside of our sexualpart of our marriage.
(45:08):
So I think
Kristen (45:09):
you're spot on.
Yeah.
It's had huge effects, like onall parts.
And I will say, because fulldisclosure I did not wait till
marriage.
My son was conceived in June of2012, and I was married in
November of 2012.
I don't want to like, makeanybody think that, I was as
(45:30):
perfect as, Purity culture wouldhave liked me to be.
And
Alexis (45:35):
I'm not either.
That's not either.
I will say though, there issomething special in that my
husband did wait for me and thatthere was something special
about that.
There's also some learningcurves that go with that though.
I'm not going to lie, even justbecause I was the first person
that he actually kissed.
So there's some stuff that, sothat's special in and of itself,
(45:55):
but yeah.
But see that I look.
Oh, go ahead.
Sorry.
I see both sides of it.
I don't have any shame for it.
I have confessed.
My husband knew I don't feellike I don't feel shame for it
now.
And I actually know it's helpedme and explaining certain things
to my kids.
That kind of messed me up.
(46:15):
It has some emotional problems.
So just keep that in mind.
It can, there is a reasonBiblically that God does that
because you do have someemotional connection as a woman
doing that.
Men may not.
I think they probably do, butthey hide it, but women for sure
do.
So
Kristen (46:31):
yeah.
And see, I struggle with thattoo.
And I know this will probablysound terrible also, but there
have been some.
Okay.
Let's pause.
I'm gonna go on a quick littleside story, but I promise it'll
bring us back to this.
It'll be a journey we will allenjoy being on.
So I remember being in highschool and people would give
their testimonies and they'd beall like, Oh, I was into drugs
(46:55):
and alcohol and sex and all thisbad stuff and then I found God
and I got saved and my life hasbeen and I remember sitting
there and being like I got savedwhen I was five.
I'm not going to get to do anyof this fun stuff because I'm
just, I'm the good girl already.
And I know, thank you forlaughing.
That makes me feel like thisisn't as terrible as I'm telling
(47:15):
it, but I remember being thatway.
This is just, it's awesomebecause it's relatable.
Yes.
And I remember resenting it andI'm not going to get to do all
the sinful stuff because Godfound me too soon.
And woe is me.
And I look at that cause there'sa whole bunch of things I didn't
experience.
I still have never done drugs inmy whole entire life.
(47:38):
And that's something I'm proudof.
And yay.
But back to the point, I thinkabout it as sex kind of the same
way too, is because I wasn't offhaving sex all through my youth,
I didn't know what I liked ordidn't like or what it was.
And I do think there'ssometimes, just like I resented
those people who got to have allthat quote unquote fun before
(47:59):
getting saved, is that I alsosee that as like, All those
other people that were out therehaving fun with sex and learning
how to do, what to do, all thethings and then I get here and
I'm like, I don't know, what'sthat?
I don't know, and it's justweird.
So I have to go back and thinkWould things have been different
if I was out and about?
And I still wouldn't have,because like I said, everything
(48:20):
else, like I was so afraid ofgetting pregnant and being
labeled a whore or a floozy or aslut, or pick your demeaning
word of the day.
That I don't, I still don'tthink I would have done it, but
it's one of those things that Ido think would it have been
different?
Could it have been different?
I don't know.
Alexis (48:39):
I do think, I genuinely
think if you really I think it's
really I am, I will say this.
We will counsel our kids to waitfor their right person before
they do it.
I think there's a lot to be saidfor that.
I think it.
Goes somewhat into some of thedivorce things and stuff like
that and people could say noLike you need to know before you
get married because but ifthey're bad, you know instead
(49:02):
and I have different opinions onthat i'm going to go from the
biblical aspect of this soComing from that.
I do think couples that are bornagain christians that want to
save themselves for each otherfor marriage should go through
some sort of Sexual educationfor marriage Before they get
(49:24):
married.
I think it should be a classlike I and there are some I'm
seeing some of these things popup now I think it will would
help some of that frustrationAnd learning curve when you
actually get married.
I really do it.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with it I think it's
learning to be educated andthat's why I say well Mom could
teach them and that stuff.
I do think that's importantrather than, just like the
(49:46):
standing on the piano or hiding,in your room, like there
shouldn't be any of that.
You should know, like the basicsof what are going to happen.
And you can also be prepared tolike, no, there's going to be a
little bit of awkwardness, butit should also be enjoyable.
It shouldn't be this scary,unknown.
Kind of thing.
Does that make sense?
Yes, I'm just, I'm
Kristen (50:05):
picturing this class
and I picture this couple
walking into the table and thenthere's like Dildo on one side
of like, all right, let us showyou how you would perform
fellatio.
And they're like, and you sirLet me show you where the clit
is.
Let us find the GC spot, likeit's just like the whole thing
is Oh my gosh.
I think at that point I'd belike, I don't want to get
(50:27):
married.
This is so awkward.
Alexis (50:30):
There are like online
classes that are like PDFs that
you print that are like bookletform is what I'm seeing them.
And those, I think are like,they call them like the
honeymoon course or somethinglike that, which makes sense.
And they're actually not,they're really not cheesy.
They're like, I really think atfirst it sounds like it, but I
do think.
Okay.
(50:50):
I don't know, I think they havetheir place and I do think that
they can be really beneficialfor couples because Oh, for
sure.
I just, I don't, I think itwould take some of that
awkwardness out and, I don'tknow, it'd make it feel less
intimidating.
Yeah.
Especially if you had come fromthe purity culture.
Now if you come from a familythat, you don't we don't really
see the purity culture inchurches nowadays, at least the
(51:10):
church that we attend.
That's not obviously it's spokenof biblically, but it's not this
push on our teens like we have.
I think maybe, had you seen thatkind of stuff?
I do think in some church sects,like I know in the LDS church,
it is like that.
So those kind of things I thinkmight be beneficial for them.
But, my church that we go to,it's not specifically, there are
(51:32):
certain things that we look for,so how do you feel
Kristen (51:35):
about true love
weights?
I need to know if you're goingto shame on my children,
Alexis (51:40):
right?
So I think there's that there'sa lot more, there's a lot more
things.
I know of actual books now forgirls and boys that are their
puberty that are a little moreThey're not so scary and not
there's a little more to it ifthat makes sense
Kristen (51:55):
Yeah, so if you could
go back and tell your younger
self something What would youtell her about purity culture?
Not just like we don't need togo through a whole like all the
things you would tell youngeralexis But what would you tell
her about this?
Alexis (52:10):
I think I would Discuss
as I'm thinking stuff not to put
too much weight on what you wearObviously and that modesty isn't
just about what you wear becauseyou can be An unhumble person
and just downright awful.
(52:31):
And you're not being modest.
That's not what it is.
And I would focus more on maybethe heart and forget the
clothes.
I would probably also I said, Idon't regret like not having sex
before marriage.
I would think I would probablytell myself like, don't rush it.
There's no reason like it's nota big thing.
You can wait till marriage andit's really okay.
(52:51):
It's actually a beautiful thingbut I don't also regret it.
I don't think I would changeanything that's happened if that
makes sense
Kristen (52:57):
Oh, yeah, because it
made you who you are Every
experience you had.
Yeah, I don't know what I wouldtell younger me I think I would
try to tell her, you know You'renot a bad person Like it's okay
You I don't know, just don't beso scared I don't know I picture
(53:21):
myself then and it's hard for meto think what I would tell her
because, she didn't get an STD,she didn't get pregnant until
she was 28, so 29, 28, whateverso she did pretty good.
I don't know.
I think I'm just don't takeeverything so seriously, listen
(53:42):
to what they're saying, but useyour brain and just don't fall
into all the fear tactics andshaving garbage.
You're better than that.
Alexis (53:52):
That's what I tell her.
Yeah I think that's, I thinkthat's wonderful because I
think, yeah, don't feel shame.
There's no shame.
I don't know, like it's okay tofeel shameful for your sin, but
not dwell on it forever.
There comes a point when you'rejust going to ruin yourself.
So I love that.
I love that for
Kristen (54:11):
you.
So I'm hoping there's otherpeople out there that either
have gone through similar thingsor know what we're talking
about, experienced it.
So if there are listeners outthere struggling with similar
experiences, whether in theirpast or present, what it, what
would you say to them or whatadvice would you give?
Alexis (54:32):
I would say that sex is
a wonderful thing.
And if you're a Christian, youcan look at to song of Solomon.
The Bible clearly has an entirebook devoted to love and sexual
things and sex is discussed inthe Bible.
So don't look at it as a badthing and learn to, you can
(54:55):
learn to enjoy it.
Communicate with your partner,find what, makes you guys is
works for your relationship, butcommunication and just knowing
like sex, isn't a bad thing.
It could be a really amazingthing.
That's wonderful.
Kristen (55:11):
I think what I would
say to people if this is
something you struggled with orare struggling with, I still
highly recommend the pure bookthat I mentioned at the
beginning and I'll put the titleof it in the description too so
you can go see it because itreally helped me to put things
together.
So I highly recommend that bookand just don't be so hard on
(55:32):
yourself.
Be open to things, know thateverything you were taught as a
child, a young adult may nothave been completely true and it
may not have been presented in away that anyone ever meant for
it to stick with you this long.
That it's okay to let go ofthose things, to let go of some
of the beliefs you had when youwere younger.
(55:54):
It's okay to move on from thatand to establish what you are
okay with now and what youbelieve to be true now and just
move on.
Live your best life, girlfriend.
Or boyfriend.
Or anybody who's listening.
Whatever you are.
Live your best life.
That's my advice.
I love that.
Go have all the sex.
All the sexes.
Alexis (56:15):
Within reason.
If that's not your thing.
Kristen (56:18):
Oh, yeah, don't have
all the sex if you don't want to
have all the sex but feel opento have all the sex Drop the
aspirin between your knees openyour legs have all the sex See
look how much i've moved on i'mlike ready like i'm gonna go
have sex right now like as soonas we're done I don't really
(56:39):
know if I am but it seems like afun thing to say yay sex look at
me Far i've come
Alexis (56:45):
See, this was good,
don't feel pressure.
No pressure.
Kristen (56:49):
Okay.
I feel pressured.
I'm taking my clothes off.
I'm just kidding.
I'm not.
Oh my gosh, Alexis.
This is, we are spiraling atthis point.
So thank you so much for joiningme.
Is there any final thoughts youwant to leave before we close
this chapter until we open itagain, maybe in another episode,
but for now.
Any final closing thoughts fromyou?
Alexis (57:10):
No, I think if I said it
all, no judgment to me and my
sex life, please, but For myhonesty, but that was it that
would be it
Kristen (57:19):
perfect Nobody's
judging you the fact that you
said you have sex five to sevendays a week people are like I
need to find this Girl, likethat is wonderful.
Maybe she can give me some tips.
How do we do it?
So we'll put what would Alexiscontact information in the
description also She'll behaving those sex classes.
She mentioned she'll send
Alexis (57:40):
you the PDF
Kristen (57:44):
2025.
We're making it.
Woo! For 2025, but here we are.
I know.
Here we are.
All right.
All right.
Alexis, thank you very much,listeners.
I hope you enjoyed this or gotsomething away from it, and
we'll just keep healingtogether.
All right.
Bye, Alexis.
Bye.