May 7, 2025 • 44 mins
Welcome to the very first episode of our Virtual Book Club! Kristen, Kelly, and Alexis sit down to dive into Perfect Is Boring and Tastes Like Kale by Jess Johnston — a heartfelt and hilarious look at embracing our imperfections and finding connection through authenticity. We share what drew us to this book, our early reactions, some standout quotes, and a few personal stories about perfectionism, insecurity, comparison, and wishing life was more like a musical (spoiler: we really do). If you've ever struggled with feeling "not enough" or just want permission to show up messy and real, this conversation is for you. Grab your copy, tune in, and let's kick this off together!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen (00:01):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back and welcome to avery, very special episode.
I know I say I'm excited aboutevery episode, but this one is
special because it is thekickoff to our virtual book
club, if you haven't seen it onsocial or heard me mention it in
other episodes, I'm reallyexcited about this book Club is
something that has been.
(00:22):
Very important to me.
It's how I've made friends.
I've learned a lot.
And think about reading.
You can do it on your own, butit is so much more fun when you
discuss books with people youlove.
So I wanna talk about what we'regonna be doing and why it
matters.
So the book I picked wassomething very relevant to the
topics of this podcast.
(00:42):
the book is.
Perfect is boring and tasteslike kale.
And I'm just gonna read a quicksummary of the book so you get
an idea of what it is, and I'lltell you why I picked it.
the summary of the book says,what if we accepted our
struggles and stop trying to besomeone we're not in this
poignant, hilarious book, thebestselling co-author of, I'll
(01:03):
Be There, but I'll be wearingsweatpants, shares her
experiments in finding our wayback to each other.
Jess Johnston used to feel alonein her mess.
Then in a random burst ofcourage, she started sharing
those insecurities and strugglesout loud, and what she found
shocked her again and again.
Women replied.
Me too.
I thought I was the only one.
(01:24):
Women are really hard onthemselves.
We often believed that if wejust did better, worked harder
and were less messy, flawedhuman, our lives would
infinitely be better, and we'dreceive the belonging we crave.
But the exact opposite is true.
It isn't our lack of perfectionthat isolates us.
Rather, it's our authenticityabout our imperfections that
(01:47):
brings us together with honesty,heart, and humor.
Johnston takes the lies she'sbelieved and the lessons she's
learned and is still learning,including if I'm rejected, I
will die.
We won't.
I'm a junior varsity adult andthe best spot for me is usually
the bench.
Nope, we've gotta get in thereand play.
My job is to keep people happyand make sure they like me,
(02:11):
excuse me, while I go hide inthe closet and have an anxiety
attack.
Jess Johnson reminds us that theanswers are in us already, and
accepting that we are a lot, alot of mess and a lot of great
too.
So that's a summary of the bookit captures so many of the
things I've tried to cover asI've been talking and guests
I've had about true authenticityand figuring out who we are and
(02:34):
how we belong and just dealingthrough all of that, but really
finding out that we're notalone.
And we're not alone because youguys, it wouldn't be a book club
if I didn't have some of myclosest friends here to talk
about the book with me.
So I wanna introduce you to whoI have joining me on this book
club journey.
And at the end of this episode,I'll tell you how that could be
(02:54):
a part of something you coulddo.
Let's introduce my guests, Kellyand Alexis.
Hi Kelly.
Hi.
Hi, Alexis.
Hi Kristen.
Kelly and Alexis, I have knownfor years and years and they've
been on the episodes before, butin case you haven't met them, I
wanted them to each take a quickminute to introduce themselves
(03:17):
and, maybe share some insecurityor something they're dealing
with.
So, who wants to go first?
Kelly (03:25):
Go ahead, Alexis.
Kristen (03:27):
Alexis, you're
Kelly (03:28):
up.
Yay.
Alexis (03:30):
I volunteer you.
Hey, that works too.
my name is Alexis and I, live inIdaho my husband and I have been
married for 17 years.
We have five kids that Ihomeschool so I stay at home and
homeschool them.
Probably, insecurity, somethingthat I'm dealing with.
(03:51):
I recently reevaluated what Iwanted my year to look like,
what I wanted my life to looklike in a lot of things.
I had to set some boundaries.
due to setting those boundaries,I unfortunately lost a job
because I wasn't.
Available to be around all thetime, because that's just not
(04:15):
healthy.
I shouldn't have to be at mycomputer all the time So it's
hard because, well, I do stay athome with my family you know,
I've been able to do that foryears, as we all know, the
economy is awful.
And so we really had to justtighten everything being one
income.
God is good and we're surviving,but it is an insecurity.
(04:37):
And now I'm at this weird placeof, do I try to find a job am I
being lazy by just homeschoolingmy kids cooking every meal for
them, keeping house going,teaching them to cook and all
that.
So it's kind of a weird place tobe after working for somebody
for many years Knowing I wasn'teven like Harding ways for poor
(05:00):
job performance, it was justbecause I set boundaries and
said I cannot be available allthis time.
yeah.
Kristen (05:08):
Wow.
That is, a lot to unpack there.
but thank you for sharing withus, Alexis.
I'm sure we will talk about thatmore as this goes on.
So, Kelly, tell us a bit aboutyou.
Kelly (05:23):
Hi guys.
I'm Kelly and I live in Mainevacation land, except for six
months out of the year when it'swinter, right?
Only
Kristen (05:34):
six months.
Kelly (05:35):
yeah, right.
We had our first snowfall atThanksgiving and we had some
flurries last weekend, but Ithink we're pretty much done.
So anyways, I work from home, acorporate job fulltime.
And I also homeschool my son.
we're finishing up first gradehere in a few weeks and have
(05:55):
been married to my husband for10 and a half years, Insecurity
I am currently dealing with.
I decided to go out for ourchurch worship team.
growing up, in high school, Iwent to a private school and we
competed in fine artscompetitions I was always in
(06:16):
vocal groups and Sang in mychurch quite a bit throughout
high school, college, but it wasvery, very different from the
church we're in now.
It was just me and my bestfriends standing at the pulpit
singing, with a piano playing.
the church we're in now worshiplooks very different and, it's a
(06:37):
lot more involved.
they use click tracks to stay ontempo with everyone.
I was really overwhelmed at thatthought and put it off for a
long time.
it kept coming up inconversations with different
people and I finally decided togo for it.
I have a meeting with theworship director.
Later this week, I feel veryinsecure about it.
(06:57):
I haven't sang publicly in likea lot of years now.
Wow.
and so I'm kind of freaking outand like, you know, I think
we're like way harder onourselves than other people are
on us.
Kristen (07:12):
Yes.
Kelly (07:12):
Despite the fact that we think other people are like
being super hard on us.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
It's definitely kept me awakerecently.
Aw, thank you for sharing.
Alexis (07:23):
I just have to say I admire you for even being
willing to get up and singbecause I can't personally sing
well, so I am so impressed.
Kelly (07:32):
we're already excited for you.
I'm excited to get back into, Iloved doing it before And so,
it's gonna look very differentthan what I'm used to, but I'm
excited
Kristen (07:42):
I love that.
And I think that's a normalinsecurity too.
and like you said, the judging,I have a lot of insecurities.
I don't have enough time to gothrough everything I'm insecure
about.
But I think the overarching onethat I struggle with all the
time is just feeling like I'mnot good enough.
I'm not a good enough mom.
(08:02):
I'm not a good enough wife, I'mnot a good enough worker.
I'm not a good enough friend.
it's all those voices in my headsaying, you didn't do this, you
didn't do that.
Like, you are not enough.
And I really struggle with that.
So I am hopeful that at the endof reading the book and talking
with you all maybe I will getover that a little bit.
So, like you said, Kelly, I knowa lot of it is just in my head
(08:25):
and I am my own worst critic,Yeah, something I'm working
with.
what do you guys think about,the title of the book, speaking
of, not being enough and notbeing Perfect, the title of the
book is Perfect, is Boring andTastes like Kale.
What do you guys thought juststraight up on the title?
Kelly (08:42):
I thought it was funny.
I love anything that, you know,like speaking of insecurities, I
try to laugh at myself to makemyself feel better about things
a lot of times.
the title just automaticallygave me that same vibe of you
know, we might feel a littleinsecure about things, but it's
(09:02):
okay, we can just laugh throughsome of it.
things just are not always soserious.
I like that she included thathumor right there in the title.
I think just in the introductionand what I've been able to get
through with the book so far,that kind of goes right along
with everything she says.
things just don't have to be soserious,
Kristen (09:24):
So,
Alexis (09:26):
Alexis, I laughed when I first tried the title, but I
really like the way that kaletastes, and I eat a lot of kale,
Kristen (09:34):
she didn't say it wasn't good.
she's saying it's boring.
Maybe.
Kelly (09:37):
I think she's saying that there's things that taste.
More exciting than Kale?
Yes.
I dunno.
Alexis (09:48):
Yeah,
Kelly (09:48):
I
Alexis (09:48):
mean, I, I really do eat a lot of kale.
I make kale chips a lot.
I eat them, so I'm kind ofweird.
We'll just say I'm the weirdone, Totally funny.
Kristen (09:59):
Well, thoughts on, you know, I read the summary at the
beginning.
Any thoughts on the summary orexpectations that maybe you have
or questions you have, likegoing into it?
What are some of those thingsthat you're thinking now at the
beginning before we dive intoreading the whole book?
Alexis (10:15):
So I am not one that typically reads books like this.
Mm-hmm.
And it's not like there'sanything wrong with them.
It's just not my personal.
I necessarily love to read bookslike this.
Maybe because I'd have to workon something and I don't always
love to have the introspectbecause I feel like it's just
another thing I have to work on,which is a whole, we can unpack
(10:37):
that whole thought on of itself,but also I always am like weary,
like weary of things to.
Books like this to just excusebehavior that really is just
lazy.
I don't think that's the casewith this, but I always have
(10:57):
that in the back of my mind tothink, but am I just going to
use this as some excuse not tojust dig in and do the hard
stuff that we have to do inlife, or is this really gonna
help me?
So I don't think after startingthis that that's the case with
this.
But it is something that Ialways think about going into
books like this, Those
Kristen (11:17):
are just my thoughts.
and I think there are someself-help books like that where,
it's maybe not even excusing thebehaviors, but making excuses
for why people do the thingsthey do, even when they're not
good things.
And I don't have any greatexamples, but I get what you're
saying where it's like, oh, it'sokay if you do this because
that's just how you are anddon't worry about it.
(11:39):
And actually.
Science says that lots of peopledo this, I know I'm giving bad
examples, but I get where you'resaying that you don't want a
book that's going to createexcuses or normalize it
Alexis (11:51):
Right.
Like something that you reallyshould create a habit and do
better in.
Because that's what you need todo.
I mean.
I don't know.
I just think of it.
I, there's actually a lot oflike parenting books that are
like that and I'm just thinking,yeah, that's not helping the
future generation.
But I don't think that's thecase so far as I'm getting into
(12:13):
it.
that's refreshing in and ofitself, and I'm excited to open
the possibilities of making roomto.
Lean into who you really are,rather than expectations you
think you should be or societyis putting on you.
Kelly (12:29):
Yeah.
I like Alexis.
I don't typically read bookslike this either.
not necessarily for any onespecific reason.
if I'm gonna read.
I typically am reading fiction,psycho thrillers.
That's my thing.
I had some of those samethoughts going into it like, I
(12:49):
have read some, self-help books,where it is a lot of fluff, I'll
call it.
Feel good.
You are fine.
You don't need to be better.
You don't need to changeanything.
It's okay.
I'm just gonna make up thisexample.
I haven't actually read this ina book, but I'm thinking, it's
(13:10):
okay if you have this habit ofdoom scrolling on your phone, on
social media all the time.
That's normal.
Everyone does it.
Don't feel bad about it.
books like that excusingbehaviors, kinda like you said.
so I was like, okay, what's thisreally gonna be about?
But I haven't gotten that farin, but I'm not getting those
(13:32):
vibes.
Mm-hmm.
That's cool..
so far, like what I havelistened to, I'm doing audio.
I'm hoping that, and I don'tknow exactly where the book's
gonna take us, but I'm hopingit's instead of excusing poor
behavior, more so focused, kindof like Alexis said, I'm just
like being more comfortable inour own little quirks.
(13:54):
Yeah.
Because I think that issomething that we, especially as
women, struggle with, feelinglike we have to portray
ourselves a certain way.
Yes.
with the insecurities and usbeing our worst critics, I'm
hoping we'll dive into thatthroughout the book It's not
(14:15):
that serious.
People aren't criticizing youthe way that you think they are.
a lot of times people aren'teven thinking about the things
that we are critiquing ourselvesover
Kristen (14:25):
we see all the things we don't like about ourselves or
see things that we wish we couldchange and we kind of hone in on
them.
But most people don't even seethat and don't even give us a
second thought.
if we're walking down the streetand we're like, oh my gosh,
they're gonna be judging whatI'm wearing or how I look,
people probably aren't evennoticing you.
they're all focused onthemselves and you may think
that they're judging you becausemaybe you judge other people.
(14:47):
So you're projecting thatBecause I know I do that a lot.
this is something I strugglewith.
Like, oh, they're watching me.
Oh, they're thinking this outfitmakes me look too fat.
Oh, they're wondering why I amwalking the way I am, stupid
stuff like that.
in my head, I know nobody'spaying attention or thinking
those things.
And if they are, it doesn'tmatter because it's still me and
I'm okay with it.
But again, all thoseinsecurities, I get it.
Kelly (15:11):
It's funny because I know in my head that I'm not
criticizing people for things,but in my head I'm like, they're
thinking that about me.
for Easter this weekend, I woresomething like that's just
completely.
Different for me, but I waslike, I'm gonna branch out here.
(15:32):
Like I am the one who I'm alwaysin like skinny jeans or legging.
Mm-hmm.
Forever.
I'm millennial in my skinnyjeans.
Not gonna apologize
Kristen (15:40):
for it,
Kelly (15:42):
but I got these flowy linen pants and wore them, I
have to say they're verycomfortable, but I was very
insecure because it's outside ofmy normal style.
And my son said they looked likefat pants.
He was like, I'm not telling youthat you look fat.
I'm saying that the pants arefat.
(16:04):
In his mind, he's trying to saythat like the Yes.
They were like, you know, likewide legs.
Yeah.
Lowy.
And he only sees me in likeskinny jeans, the legging.
So like the pants look fat tohim.
I get it.
I wore that and in my head I'mlike.
Everyone's looking at me.
They're thinking, what is shedoing wearing that?
why is she in fat pants forEaster?
(16:26):
I couldn't even tell you whatmost people had on this weekend
at church.
Like, I'm not thinking about it,you know?
But in my head, everyone wasstaring at my outfit.
Kristen (16:38):
That's so funny.
Also, you have to send a pictureof you in your fat pants so we
can post it for
Kelly (16:44):
everyone.
Great.
Perfect.
Alexis (16:51):
Oh, that's too funny.
I think we can all relate tothat though.
I think that's just like a wholegirl thing.
Even like I was thinking aboutthis with swimsuits I mean, I am
not what I was in my.
Teens or twenties, But then Ithink about it and I admire
those women who are not societystandards of like the magazine
covers and they're out thererocking their bikinis and I'm
(17:13):
like, oh, you go like, I couldnot do that, but I applaud you
and I am proud of you because.
You really get it.
And I need to get where you are.
Kristen (17:26):
I try so hard with that 'cause I struggle with that.
you've probably seen the thingson social media where it's like,
it's more about being of my kidsand it's not about what I look
like.
everybody is a bikini body.
You just put it on so you canget in the pool and play with
your kids.
I get that.
Like I support that.
I do that and I will even, Theword fake comes to mind.
(17:46):
It sounds worse, but like fakethat I'm confident.
I'll wear my bathing suit get inthe pool and have a great time
And then afterwards, if I seepictures of myself, I'm like,
Ugh.
Is that really what I look like?
Well, my kid doesn't care what Ilook Like I am out there having
fun.
My friends don't care what Ilook like because they're not my
friends, because of how skinnyor not.
It's more on the knot side.
I look in a bathing suit, likeit's because of my stunning
(18:10):
personality and my sense ofhumor and my wit, and wisdom.
that's why people are myfriends.
I think that's why you guys aremy friends, right?
but you're right.
nobody cares what you look likein a bathing suit because
they're also focused aboutthinking about what they look
like in a bathing suit.
Kelly (18:26):
Yeah, it's
Kristen (18:27):
true.
Kelly (18:28):
So true.
Kristen (18:30):
It's hard, but it's true.
That's a great example.
So guys, I'm gonna read to youthe chapter titles, and I'll go
slowly so you can hear them all.
let me know which ones come outthat you're either most excited
about or you think mightresonate with you.
there's 14, so I'll go slowly.
Line number one today, I'll beperfect.
(18:54):
Line number two.
I have to keep up with theKardashians and also my
neighbor, Tammy, lie numberthree, they forgot my name again
and I think I might actually beinvisible.
Lie number four, I'm going toneed to shrink, suck it all in,
quiet down, and possiblydisappear.
(19:14):
Lie number five.
Pretending to be fine is thesame thing as being fine.
Line number six.
If I'm rejected, I will die.
Lie number seven, my job is tokeep people happy and make sure
they like me.
Lie Number eight, neighbors areweird.
(19:36):
Lie number nine.
Asking for help is a terribleidea because then everyone is
going to know I need help.
Lie number 10, I'm a juniorvarsity adult and the best spot
for me is usually the bench.
Lie number 11, it's better notto try than to mess up in front
of everyone.
(19:57):
Lie number 12, I can't do thatbecause no one does that lie.
Number 13, if I can't go big, Ishould just go home and the
final lie, lie number 14.
It's better to dream smallbecause then I won't be
disappointed.
Now, just let this sink in for aminute.
(20:19):
First question.
Have you thought any of thosethings before?
Yeah.
Any of them.
Yeah.
Right.
Like even as I'm reading themout loud, I'm like, oh, that
one.
Oh, that one.
Oh, that one too.
which ones of them kind ofresonated or feel like kind of
aligned to where you're at?
I'll go first if that makes youfeel better.
(20:41):
not in any order.
The ones that got me.
my job is to keep people happy,make sure they like me.
asking for help is terrible.
It's better to try than to notmess up.
I think those are the ones thatare really bad.
Oh, and pretending to be fine isthe same thing as being fine.
It's fine.
I'm fine.
Everything's fine.
What about you
Kelly (21:01):
guys?
go ahead Alyssa.
Alexis (21:02):
Kristen, I probably have almost the exact same ones.
We could probably add a couplemore I'm laughing because the
neighbors are weird kind ofthing.
I say that my neighbors areweird.
There may be some truth to thatone.
what's that one gonna be about?
Because there is some, you know,like there's some things, but
then I just think, whatever, letthem do what they wanna do
(21:24):
because I'm gonna do what Iwanna do.
But man, we, there's a lot, andI think there's a lot of overlap
with what you and I had.
the biggest one is 11.
It's better not to try.
Then to mess up in front ofeveryone.
I mean, yeah, that's mutual tea.
I will not, I should be, shouldhave been like an etiquette
(21:47):
school where you have to be allprim and proper and cannot be
goofy or act out anywherebecause heaven forbid anybody
look at me and think that I'mmessing up or doing something
weird.
Kristen (22:01):
Right.
Kelly's already conquering thatone because she's gonna be on
the worship team and she isgonna do it in front of
everybody.
Yeah, but be amazing.
Kelly (22:12):
I'm gonna wear my, for my, why not just throw an extra
insecurity in there.
I think we need videos of this.
our services are live streamed,Perfect.
Alexis (22:23):
I love that.
I'm cheering you on.
I won't be thinking anythingfunny.
I'll just cheering on.
It'll
Kelly (22:29):
be good.
It'll be good.
You're gonna be like, look atthose fan wearing.
Best fat pants ever.
He tried to make me feel evenbetter.
He was like, no, you're not fat.
I'm talking about the pants.
If I wore those pants, mommy, Iwould probably look really fat
too.
Kristen (22:49):
Let's
Kelly (22:49):
just not try to make this better.
You're making it worse.
Oh, anyways, so number one.
It stuck out to me because Ifeel like I go through this
never ending cycle all the timewhere I go to bed at night, I
reflect on my day, I think aboutwhere I failed.
(23:12):
And how I could have done thisbetter and I could have been
better here and I could haveresponded to my son better, you
know, in this situation orwhatever.
And so then I think, okay,tomorrow.
I'm gonna do better with this,this, this, and this.
And then the next day comes andwith best of intentions, I will
(23:33):
fail in one way or another.
it's just a cycle because then Iget really hard on myself for
having failed in whatever area.
after a little while of tryingand failing, I think, what's the
point?
And then I get into these rutswhere I just am like, this is as
(23:54):
good as it gets.
I'm a terrible mother.
I'm a terrible wife.
I'm a terrible employee,whatever the case may be.
and then I'll try to pull myselfout of it.
I'm like, okay, I can do this.
And then, it's just the samecycle of like, tomorrow I'm
gonna do.
better So that one immediatelystuck out to me.
Kristen (24:17):
that one is the overarching, one of all the
other things, because if I wereperfect, then none of these
other things would bother mebecause I would already be
perfect, but I'm not.
Kelly (24:28):
Right.
Kristen (24:30):
And that's okay.
Because nobody wants to beperfect and taste like kale,
except for Alexis who loveskale.
And that's okay too.
Kelly (24:39):
Yeah.
The rest of us wanna taste likebuffalo chicken over here, but
not Alexis.
Or like a pizza.
Alexis (24:45):
And you wanna laugh?
I like neither one of thosethings.
I really don't like pizza and Idefinitely don't like buffalo
chicken.
we can
Kristen (24:53):
laugh at this.
Even more allows for me.
No.
Okay.
let's combine them then Alexis,to something you'll hate even
more.
Kelly and I are all over abuffalo chicken pizza.
Yes.
The last time I was at Kelly'shouse, that's what we had
Alexis (25:08):
You feel like my kids that want barbecue chicken
pizza.
I get that too.
Oh, it's so good.
Kelly (25:15):
Gross.
Anything?
Anything?
Buffalo.
I'm there.
Jeff birthday is Thursday and hehas requested like I make every
year for his birthday, BuffaloChicken Alfredo.
Alexis (25:24):
Mm.
Alfred and Buffalo Chickenshouldn't be mixed together.
That alone, they
Kelly (25:31):
should.
Alfred
Kristen (25:34):
creaminess of it like.
Kelly (25:36):
So good.
Mm-hmm.
I'll take your
Alexis (25:38):
word for it.
I will probably neverexperiment, but if I come visit
and you make it, I will gladlyeat it and give you my honest,
nice opinion.
She'll be like, this shouldreally have a side of
Kristen (25:49):
kale with it.
Like, where's
Alexis (25:51):
the
Kelly (25:52):
kale?
Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tellher by making a side of kale's
with it for his birthday andwhat he says.
Kristen (26:00):
He'll be like divorce papers.
It's been a fun 10 years
Kelly (26:04):
allowed sister, her friends.
Kristen (26:07):
Fine, Jeff.
So back on track.
I think we can agree that thisbook is for us I wanted to read
a highlight from the bookbecause, in thinking about like,
who's this book for, like whowould wanna join our book club?
Who wants to talk?
Who wants to read this book?
Who wants to be a part of it?
I wanted to share this part fromthe introduction too.
this book is for every girl whohas ever scribbled in her diary,
(26:28):
I don't know what's wrong withme.
It's for every mom who has everthrown her hands up into despair
saying, I try so hard and Ican't seem to get it right.
It's for anyone who's felt likean outsider, unsure how she'd
ever get in, it's for every girlwho's ever gone on a crash diet
trying to be a sigh, she had nobusiness being.
It's for every woman who hasever gone through a breakup and
(26:51):
thought it was because she wastoo.
It's for every girl who has eversnapped at her family and melted
into a public of shame thinking,why can't I just get it
together?
It's also for a special,slightly more specialized group.
Spoiler me, the kind who managesto lose their keys 20 times a
week.
It's for all of us.
(27:13):
And that's what Jess wrote inthe introduction, which I feel
is very poignant.
I'm pretty sure I have been mostof those girls that she mentions
in that paragraph.
I've written in my diary that Ihave felt like an outsider.
I've gone on crash diets.
gone through a breakup or friendor relationship wise and thought
it was my fault.
(27:34):
Like it's because I'm toowhatever.
I snapped at my family.
so that's me.
How about you guys?
Kelly (27:41):
A lot of the things you were reading there, I was like,
Same.
Alexis (27:44):
I can relate I'm, not a writer, so I've never journaled
or written in a diary, which Iknow sounds kind of weird, But I
think about these things a lotand like goals and maybe make
more like plan or goals.
they would be more in my plannergoal thing.
I can relate to so much of that.
Kristen (28:02):
Alexis, I think you took some notes through the
intro too.
Were there any quotes that stuckout to you that you'd wanna
share?
Alexis (28:10):
So the first one we compare, way too much.
And social media has not helpedus in that area.
And I know Kristen, we'vediscussed this a lot.
Mm-hmm.
well, when we've done podcastsand social media just portrays
these things and I think it'sdone such a disservice to.
(28:35):
the later generations.
I don't know, as millennialswe've kind of grown into it, but
I see it so much more among theyounger generations.
there's such a comparison andthe need to do what everybody
else is doing on social media.
I really think it has beendetrimental, in that regard.
that was my first one that Ireally liked.
(28:57):
And then I really liked thisparagraph.
What if I flipped the script?
And this wasn't actually athing.
What if life was for trying outstuff, breaking out in random
dances and making mistakes andmuch rather life be more like a
trampoline park where trippingand falling just adds to the
fun.
I really like that because.
(29:18):
It kind of gave like a, whereyou could make mistakes and just
do those things there is no waythat I would just break out in a
random dance because somebodymight see me and I might make a
mistake.
So I just really liked that andit stuck with me I wish there
was room for that and I need tomake more room for that.
Kristen (29:41):
I highlighted that line too, and I love that because I
also don't break out in randomdance, but I wish that I could,
like I have joke with peoplethat I wish real life was like a
musical in musicals there's asong for everything that happens
and the entire cast jumps intosong and dance for the littlest
thing that's going on.
I would love for my life to be amusical.
(30:03):
That's one of my dreams in life.
The whole world is a musical.
the thought of it being atrampoline park, you know, and
Kelly, you mentioned earlierabout how even the title is kind
of funny and you like to laughat yourself and do things like
that.
Like what if life were more likethat, where we didn't take
ourselves so seriously and we'rejust hopping along, trampolines,
bouncing from one to the next,flipping falling.
(30:24):
what if it could be like that?
Kelly (30:28):
when we're kids, we are so much more like that.
Like talking about breaking outinto random dance.
My son does that all the time inthe store and I try to never
make him feel silly for thatbecause I hope that lasts for a
long time for him, and I don'tever wanna make him feel like he
(30:52):
should be.
Insecure for doing those things.
he did it today.
We went over to my friend'shouse and we're standing in our
kitchen and all of a sudden he'sjust dancing I wish we could all
have that mindset of just notcaring.
obviously within reason,
Kristen (31:07):
be safe, but
Kelly (31:09):
let's not be gross and not care, just, you know, silly.
So yeah, it's interest.
We start that way and then atsome point we start gaining all
of these insecurities and fearsof what other people are
thinking of us.
Alexis (31:28):
It's really interesting that you say your kids do that.
even as a kid, I did not dothings like this.
we would go to the store and mysisters would be insane, and I
would get so mad at them becauseI felt like, and I was young, I
was only 6, 7, 8, and they weredoing stuff and I would get so
mad because I felt like theywere drawing attention to us and
(31:51):
I didn't like it.
So maybe I just have an issue,but I have always been like
that, so it's weird.
Let's not draw attention toourselves.
Let's act appropriately.
And dancing is not appropriate,which, okay, I know that's not
the case, but as a kid, that'show I felt.
it's just really hard for me.
Kristen (32:09):
It's funny because as I'm saying, like, oh no, I
wouldn't do that.
And then Kelly, you gave yourexample about your son.
I'm like, oh wait.
But I do that all the time.
we'll be at Walmart, and Walmarthas a very good soundtrack like
Walmart Radio, love it.
They play all the jams that Ilove.
And I will often find myselfmoving to the music while we're
in an aisle.
(32:29):
I mean, not like all outdancing, but my husband will get
so mad at me, he'll be like,what are you doing?
Stop that.
and it's not like I'm dancingthrough the aisles, but my body
feels the music and I am justmoving with it.
And then all of a sudden you'resaying that and I'm like, oh,
but I don't.
Care as much what people atWalmart think about me mostly.
'cause I don't know most ofthem.
Although we're in a small town,I almost always see at least one
(32:51):
person I know when I go toWalmart.
maybe I need to treat my lifemore like Walmart and dancing at
Walmart where I don't care whatpeople think.
Alexis (32:58):
I wish I could be like that.
Even my husband is a big justway out dance and I'm almost
embarrassed for him.
I'm like, oh, don't do that.
and that's what was terrible asI say that.
But I just learned to laugh.
Usually I just laugh and he'lltry to grab me Dancing is not my
forte.
Maybe we could just have it besomething different.
Kristen (33:16):
Maybe.
Would you prefer him to sing?
Could he sing Burst out intosong?
Maybe you should just break outand song instead.
Kelly (33:23):
That still
Alexis (33:24):
supports my make the world of musical.
Oh yeah.
we could both sing This might,there actually might be
something more going on withthis.
I think I've told you aboutthis, Kristen, where I have
auditory processing issue andI've had it since I was a kid
sometimes people that have whatI have, they don't enjoy music.
(33:45):
They don't enjoy that.
They actually are tone deaf.
You can't sing.
That probably has something todo with it because I really
don't like music.
I would rather listen to anaudiobook or a podcast or not
have music.
Even when I used midwives to formy birth, and my midwives would
be like, well, don't you wannaplay music?
And my husband's like, don'teven play music.
(34:06):
She's just gonna get irritated.
So it might have something to dowith that.
And, that's really just.
A brain issue.
That's probably just somethingwith me, but even if it was just
being silly and loud and crazy,I would struggle with it.
I think at certain points in mylife I've done better.
and I do better now that I havekids and I can be around kids
(34:29):
and their silly and goofiness.
Kristen (34:30):
I think that's all very interesting.
I know you had talked about theauditory thing, but I didn't
realize that the whole musicthing and the way that is.
That's really interesting.
Well guys, going forward, I knoweveryone is like, okay, this
sounds really great.
I wanna read the book.
How can I be a part of it?
here's where I tell you how.
the book naturally breaks itselfinto three parts.
(34:52):
part one, part two, part three,and the 14 lies are through all
of it.
So we are going to separate itand go into those three main
parts, one per week and thenwe'll discuss it.
So where we're at right now,today is May 7th, So you're
gonna listen to this episodetoday and this week you are
(35:15):
going to read part one.
Which is lies one through five.
then we're going to talk aboutthose chapters next week on May
14th.
So May 14th, you'll listen toepisode two, but that week
you're gonna read part two, liessix through Nine.
Then the next week, May 21st,our third episode.
(35:38):
You're going to listen to thatepisode on the 21st, and that
week you're gonna be readingLies 10 through 14.
that's gonna wrap up the end ofthe book.
So then our May 28th episode,we'll talk about that part and
kind of some final thoughts.
I am working with some ideas fora super special finale,
afterwards.
details to follow on that one.
(35:59):
That's how it's gonna work forreading and listening to keep
everybody involved.
you wanna know how to beinvolved.
since we're gonna be reading thebook together and talking about
the week after, this should givesome time for if there's
something you read that you, I.
Think, you wanna talk about, youcan send me an email, talk with
Kristen with an e@gmail.com.
(36:21):
You can message me on Facebook,you can go to the Facebook page
there.
You can DM me on Instagram,however you wanna do, but also
also new and exciting.
there is a Google form.
You can go to the links in mybio.
where you can go and you cangive your name optional.
you can say which part you arecommenting on.
(36:43):
Throw your comments in the textbox.
Let me know if you want me toshare it with your name, share
it without your name or notshare it.
You just wanted to tell it tome.
That's fine too.
I will be respectful of howeveryou wanna do that.
but that way if you don't wantto go all in on one of the
platforms, there is a way whereyou can just reach out and put
your information in anonymouslytoo, if that's something you
(37:04):
would like to do.
Kelly and Alexis are gonna bealong with us on this journey.
if you have comments for Kellyand Alexis, you can send them to
me and I am happy to share withthem also.
And, we're looking forward tohaving everybody on this
journey.
before we wrap up this initial.
Club episode.
(37:26):
Any final thoughts from the twoof you, or any questions you
guys have of how we're gonna dothis?
Because this is the first timewe've done something like this.
We're trying it out, see howit's gonna work.
Alexis (37:34):
I am really excited for a book club because I love
reading and I wanted to do bookclub forever, so I'm excited for
this and I actually hope it goesreally well so we can do more of
them, even if they're self-helpbooks because maybe I need more
self-help books.
Kelly (37:52):
Yeah, I'm excited too.
I used to be in a book club andI haven't been for like a year
and a half now, I'm excited toget back to reading something
and then discussing with people.
It's gonna be fun.
Kristen (38:06):
I am excited too, because, this has been a long
time in the works because KellyAlexis and I had talked about
doing a book club over a yearago now.
Or was it a year ago?
Well, we were gonna do it on TheNightingale, right?
Kelly (38:19):
Yeah.
we all read it and like we, youknow, like attempted.
Pretend we were gonna have aconversation about it, and it
just never
Kristen (38:26):
happened.
it took a minute because we wereall at different places.
Like one of us we're like, okay,we're gonna read it and then
like, oh, I've gotta read thisother book for a book club.
And then oh, I don't have thebook yet.
it was back and forth.
we finally all read it.
We're like, all right, let's dothis.
But then like life happened andwe never got around to it.
And then Frozen River, which oneof you read that first?
Kelly.
Was it you?
Kelly (38:46):
I read that, oh goodness, when did I read it?
I think it was like early falllast year or maybe end of
summer,
Kristen (38:54):
He probably recommended it to me and then I'm like, oh
my gosh, we have to get togetherand do this because fun story,
Kelly and Alexis have never met.
Alexis is my friend fromcollege.
Kelly is my sister-in-law, andthey have so many things in
common They're both working fromhome.
They both homeschool, they bothknow me.
They both read the same kind ofbooks, like it was like a match
(39:15):
made in heaven.
I'm like, oh my gosh, you guyshave to be friends.
So we're doing this now and I'mso excited I think it's great to
start with this book, but I amalso open to other books it's
gonna be a great time.
Alexis (39:28):
we already have a couple books like we've read.
We can do book club for a couplemore and bring along more people
to join us.
Yes,
Kristen (39:36):
it'd be fantastic.
On or off the podcast.
I mean, it'll be great.
We'll get a whole thing goingthe talk with Kristen with an
book club and then read withKristen with an evil show up
too, because like she iseverywhere all the time.
With Talk with Chris.
It's bizarre to have these twohang out all the time.
All right, guys.
this has been fantastic.
(39:56):
Anything you wanna say to thelisteners, people out there?
Is there anything that you wouldwanna say to encourage them to
join our virtual book club, orshare with them about being a
part of this and discussing it?
Any thoughts on that?
Kelly (40:10):
I think they're fun.
So I think everyone should wantto listen and read along with
us.
before I was ever in a bookclub, I never really understood
the hype over it.
but then I was in one and itactually is so fun.
If you like reading, if youdon't like reading, then maybe
not.
But audio books are always anoption if sitting and reading a
(40:31):
book is not your thing, so youcan still participate.
And it is actually so fun to bereading the same material and
then discussing it with people.
Kristen (40:40):
Mm-hmm.
I'm hoping too that even ifpeople don't want to read it,
just by listening to us, they'llbe able to learn and get
something from it too, so thatit'll still be valuable.
So maybe it's almost likesecondhand reading, like we'll
read it.
Mm-hmm.
And then as we're talking aboutit, people can learn some of the
truths from that, that may helpthem be their true, authentic
self and not feel the need to bequote unquote.
(41:02):
Perfect.
Kelly (41:05):
Agreed.
Alexis (41:06):
Alexis?
I would encourage people to pickup a book and read if you don't
already have a habit of reading.
Best thing I ever did was deletemy subscriptions for Netflix and
start picking up a book andreading, you know, 15 minutes a
day.
pretty soon I was reading, anhour before bedtime and it was
(41:28):
the best thing I have done Iread a lot of fluff books, but I
also read some other good books.
But just doing that got me offdoom scrolling on, social media
it also spurred a love ofreading to my kids.
They weren't big readers beforethat.
now, we can all be found on thecouch with our nose and.
(41:49):
So I recommend, even if youdon't join Book Club, but just
Billy, come join us.
Pick up a book and read becausethere's so many amazing stories
in a found in a book.
Kristen (42:00):
Love it.
This is where we cue the readingRainbow music.
True.
I look in a book.
okay, final question and then Ipromise we'll be done.
Kelly, I heard you say that youare listening to this book.
So you've got the audiobook?
Yes.
I am doing an ebook.
So I've got it on my Kindle.
(42:20):
And Alexis, how are you readingthe book?
Alexis (42:24):
On my Kindle is an ebook because, well, you can't do a
physical book, although I didpick up one from the free little
library from my walk the otherday.
And I'm trying it, it might bethe first physical book I've
read in two years.
Outside of school books, becauseour school books are all.
Physical, but a personal bookthat I'm reading, if that makes
(42:45):
sense.
Kristen (42:45):
So we'll compare that to how the digital book and the
audio book differ or how we feelwe're learning from it.
thank you so much for joiningand listeners hope that you'll
read along and we'll meet withyou next week to talk about part
one.
All right.
Bye guys.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back and welcome to avery, very special episode.
I know I say I'm excited aboutevery episode, but this one is
special because it is thekickoff to our virtual book
club, if you haven't seen it onsocial or heard me mention it in
other episodes, I'm reallyexcited about this book Club is
something that has been.
(00:22):
Very important to me.
It's how I've made friends.
I've learned a lot.
And think about reading.
You can do it on your own, butit is so much more fun when you
discuss books with people youlove.
So I wanna talk about what we'regonna be doing and why it
matters.
So the book I picked wassomething very relevant to the
topics of this podcast.
(00:42):
the book is.
Perfect is boring and tasteslike kale.
And I'm just gonna read a quicksummary of the book so you get
an idea of what it is, and I'lltell you why I picked it.
the summary of the book says,what if we accepted our
struggles and stop trying to besomeone we're not in this
poignant, hilarious book, thebestselling co-author of, I'll
(01:03):
Be There, but I'll be wearingsweatpants, shares her
experiments in finding our wayback to each other.
Jess Johnston used to feel alonein her mess.
Then in a random burst ofcourage, she started sharing
those insecurities and strugglesout loud, and what she found
shocked her again and again.
Women replied.
Me too.
I thought I was the only one.
(01:24):
Women are really hard onthemselves.
We often believed that if wejust did better, worked harder
and were less messy, flawedhuman, our lives would
infinitely be better, and we'dreceive the belonging we crave.
But the exact opposite is true.
It isn't our lack of perfectionthat isolates us.
Rather, it's our authenticityabout our imperfections that
(01:47):
brings us together with honesty,heart, and humor.
Johnston takes the lies she'sbelieved and the lessons she's
learned and is still learning,including if I'm rejected, I
will die.
We won't.
I'm a junior varsity adult andthe best spot for me is usually
the bench.
Nope, we've gotta get in thereand play.
My job is to keep people happyand make sure they like me,
(02:11):
excuse me, while I go hide inthe closet and have an anxiety
attack.
Jess Johnson reminds us that theanswers are in us already, and
accepting that we are a lot, alot of mess and a lot of great
too.
So that's a summary of the bookit captures so many of the
things I've tried to cover asI've been talking and guests
I've had about true authenticityand figuring out who we are and
(02:34):
how we belong and just dealingthrough all of that, but really
finding out that we're notalone.
And we're not alone because youguys, it wouldn't be a book club
if I didn't have some of myclosest friends here to talk
about the book with me.
So I wanna introduce you to whoI have joining me on this book
club journey.
And at the end of this episode,I'll tell you how that could be
(02:54):
a part of something you coulddo.
Let's introduce my guests, Kellyand Alexis.
Hi Kelly.
Hi.
Hi, Alexis.
Hi Kristen.
Kelly and Alexis, I have knownfor years and years and they've
been on the episodes before, butin case you haven't met them, I
wanted them to each take a quickminute to introduce themselves
(03:17):
and, maybe share some insecurityor something they're dealing
with.
So, who wants to go first?
Kelly (03:25):
Go ahead, Alexis.
Kristen (03:27):
Alexis, you're
Kelly (03:28):
up.
Yay.
Alexis (03:30):
I volunteer you.
Hey, that works too.
my name is Alexis and I, live inIdaho my husband and I have been
married for 17 years.
We have five kids that Ihomeschool so I stay at home and
homeschool them.
Probably, insecurity, somethingthat I'm dealing with.
(03:51):
I recently reevaluated what Iwanted my year to look like,
what I wanted my life to looklike in a lot of things.
I had to set some boundaries.
due to setting those boundaries,I unfortunately lost a job
because I wasn't.
Available to be around all thetime, because that's just not
(04:15):
healthy.
I shouldn't have to be at mycomputer all the time So it's
hard because, well, I do stay athome with my family you know,
I've been able to do that foryears, as we all know, the
economy is awful.
And so we really had to justtighten everything being one
income.
God is good and we're surviving,but it is an insecurity.
(04:37):
And now I'm at this weird placeof, do I try to find a job am I
being lazy by just homeschoolingmy kids cooking every meal for
them, keeping house going,teaching them to cook and all
that.
So it's kind of a weird place tobe after working for somebody
for many years Knowing I wasn'teven like Harding ways for poor
(05:00):
job performance, it was justbecause I set boundaries and
said I cannot be available allthis time.
yeah.
Kristen (05:08):
Wow.
That is, a lot to unpack there.
but thank you for sharing withus, Alexis.
I'm sure we will talk about thatmore as this goes on.
So, Kelly, tell us a bit aboutyou.
Kelly (05:23):
Hi guys.
I'm Kelly and I live in Mainevacation land, except for six
months out of the year when it'swinter, right?
Only
Kristen (05:34):
six months.
Kelly (05:35):
yeah, right.
We had our first snowfall atThanksgiving and we had some
flurries last weekend, but Ithink we're pretty much done.
So anyways, I work from home, acorporate job fulltime.
And I also homeschool my son.
we're finishing up first gradehere in a few weeks and have
(05:55):
been married to my husband for10 and a half years, Insecurity
I am currently dealing with.
I decided to go out for ourchurch worship team.
growing up, in high school, Iwent to a private school and we
competed in fine artscompetitions I was always in
(06:16):
vocal groups and Sang in mychurch quite a bit throughout
high school, college, but it wasvery, very different from the
church we're in now.
It was just me and my bestfriends standing at the pulpit
singing, with a piano playing.
the church we're in now worshiplooks very different and, it's a
(06:37):
lot more involved.
they use click tracks to stay ontempo with everyone.
I was really overwhelmed at thatthought and put it off for a
long time.
it kept coming up inconversations with different
people and I finally decided togo for it.
I have a meeting with theworship director.
Later this week, I feel veryinsecure about it.
(06:57):
I haven't sang publicly in likea lot of years now.
Wow.
and so I'm kind of freaking outand like, you know, I think
we're like way harder onourselves than other people are
on us.
Kristen (07:12):
Yes.
Kelly (07:12):
Despite the fact that we think other people are like
being super hard on us.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
It's definitely kept me awakerecently.
Aw, thank you for sharing.
Alexis (07:23):
I just have to say I admire you for even being
willing to get up and singbecause I can't personally sing
well, so I am so impressed.
Kelly (07:32):
we're already excited for you.
I'm excited to get back into, Iloved doing it before And so,
it's gonna look very differentthan what I'm used to, but I'm
excited
Kristen (07:42):
I love that.
And I think that's a normalinsecurity too.
and like you said, the judging,I have a lot of insecurities.
I don't have enough time to gothrough everything I'm insecure
about.
But I think the overarching onethat I struggle with all the
time is just feeling like I'mnot good enough.
I'm not a good enough mom.
(08:02):
I'm not a good enough wife, I'mnot a good enough worker.
I'm not a good enough friend.
it's all those voices in my headsaying, you didn't do this, you
didn't do that.
Like, you are not enough.
And I really struggle with that.
So I am hopeful that at the endof reading the book and talking
with you all maybe I will getover that a little bit.
So, like you said, Kelly, I knowa lot of it is just in my head
(08:25):
and I am my own worst critic,Yeah, something I'm working
with.
what do you guys think about,the title of the book, speaking
of, not being enough and notbeing Perfect, the title of the
book is Perfect, is Boring andTastes like Kale.
What do you guys thought juststraight up on the title?
Kelly (08:42):
I thought it was funny.
I love anything that, you know,like speaking of insecurities, I
try to laugh at myself to makemyself feel better about things
a lot of times.
the title just automaticallygave me that same vibe of you
know, we might feel a littleinsecure about things, but it's
(09:02):
okay, we can just laugh throughsome of it.
things just are not always soserious.
I like that she included thathumor right there in the title.
I think just in the introductionand what I've been able to get
through with the book so far,that kind of goes right along
with everything she says.
things just don't have to be soserious,
Kristen (09:24):
So,
Alexis (09:26):
Alexis, I laughed when I first tried the title, but I
really like the way that kaletastes, and I eat a lot of kale,
Kristen (09:34):
she didn't say it wasn't good.
she's saying it's boring.
Maybe.
Kelly (09:37):
I think she's saying that there's things that taste.
More exciting than Kale?
Yes.
I dunno.
Alexis (09:48):
Yeah,
Kelly (09:48):
I
Alexis (09:48):
mean, I, I really do eat a lot of kale.
I make kale chips a lot.
I eat them, so I'm kind ofweird.
We'll just say I'm the weirdone, Totally funny.
Kristen (09:59):
Well, thoughts on, you know, I read the summary at the
beginning.
Any thoughts on the summary orexpectations that maybe you have
or questions you have, likegoing into it?
What are some of those thingsthat you're thinking now at the
beginning before we dive intoreading the whole book?
Alexis (10:15):
So I am not one that typically reads books like this.
Mm-hmm.
And it's not like there'sanything wrong with them.
It's just not my personal.
I necessarily love to read bookslike this.
Maybe because I'd have to workon something and I don't always
love to have the introspectbecause I feel like it's just
another thing I have to work on,which is a whole, we can unpack
(10:37):
that whole thought on of itself,but also I always am like weary,
like weary of things to.
Books like this to just excusebehavior that really is just
lazy.
I don't think that's the casewith this, but I always have
(10:57):
that in the back of my mind tothink, but am I just going to
use this as some excuse not tojust dig in and do the hard
stuff that we have to do inlife, or is this really gonna
help me?
So I don't think after startingthis that that's the case with
this.
But it is something that Ialways think about going into
books like this, Those
Kristen (11:17):
are just my thoughts.
and I think there are someself-help books like that where,
it's maybe not even excusing thebehaviors, but making excuses
for why people do the thingsthey do, even when they're not
good things.
And I don't have any greatexamples, but I get what you're
saying where it's like, oh, it'sokay if you do this because
that's just how you are anddon't worry about it.
(11:39):
And actually.
Science says that lots of peopledo this, I know I'm giving bad
examples, but I get where you'resaying that you don't want a
book that's going to createexcuses or normalize it
Alexis (11:51):
Right.
Like something that you reallyshould create a habit and do
better in.
Because that's what you need todo.
I mean.
I don't know.
I just think of it.
I, there's actually a lot oflike parenting books that are
like that and I'm just thinking,yeah, that's not helping the
future generation.
But I don't think that's thecase so far as I'm getting into
(12:13):
it.
that's refreshing in and ofitself, and I'm excited to open
the possibilities of making roomto.
Lean into who you really are,rather than expectations you
think you should be or societyis putting on you.
Kelly (12:29):
Yeah.
I like Alexis.
I don't typically read bookslike this either.
not necessarily for any onespecific reason.
if I'm gonna read.
I typically am reading fiction,psycho thrillers.
That's my thing.
I had some of those samethoughts going into it like, I
(12:49):
have read some, self-help books,where it is a lot of fluff, I'll
call it.
Feel good.
You are fine.
You don't need to be better.
You don't need to changeanything.
It's okay.
I'm just gonna make up thisexample.
I haven't actually read this ina book, but I'm thinking, it's
(13:10):
okay if you have this habit ofdoom scrolling on your phone, on
social media all the time.
That's normal.
Everyone does it.
Don't feel bad about it.
books like that excusingbehaviors, kinda like you said.
so I was like, okay, what's thisreally gonna be about?
But I haven't gotten that farin, but I'm not getting those
(13:32):
vibes.
Mm-hmm.
That's cool..
so far, like what I havelistened to, I'm doing audio.
I'm hoping that, and I don'tknow exactly where the book's
gonna take us, but I'm hopingit's instead of excusing poor
behavior, more so focused, kindof like Alexis said, I'm just
like being more comfortable inour own little quirks.
(13:54):
Yeah.
Because I think that issomething that we, especially as
women, struggle with, feelinglike we have to portray
ourselves a certain way.
Yes.
with the insecurities and usbeing our worst critics, I'm
hoping we'll dive into thatthroughout the book It's not
(14:15):
that serious.
People aren't criticizing youthe way that you think they are.
a lot of times people aren'teven thinking about the things
that we are critiquing ourselvesover
Kristen (14:25):
we see all the things we don't like about ourselves or
see things that we wish we couldchange and we kind of hone in on
them.
But most people don't even seethat and don't even give us a
second thought.
if we're walking down the streetand we're like, oh my gosh,
they're gonna be judging whatI'm wearing or how I look,
people probably aren't evennoticing you.
they're all focused onthemselves and you may think
that they're judging you becausemaybe you judge other people.
(14:47):
So you're projecting thatBecause I know I do that a lot.
this is something I strugglewith.
Like, oh, they're watching me.
Oh, they're thinking this outfitmakes me look too fat.
Oh, they're wondering why I amwalking the way I am, stupid
stuff like that.
in my head, I know nobody'spaying attention or thinking
those things.
And if they are, it doesn'tmatter because it's still me and
I'm okay with it.
But again, all thoseinsecurities, I get it.
Kelly (15:11):
It's funny because I know in my head that I'm not
criticizing people for things,but in my head I'm like, they're
thinking that about me.
for Easter this weekend, I woresomething like that's just
completely.
Different for me, but I waslike, I'm gonna branch out here.
(15:32):
Like I am the one who I'm alwaysin like skinny jeans or legging.
Mm-hmm.
Forever.
I'm millennial in my skinnyjeans.
Not gonna apologize
Kristen (15:40):
for it,
Kelly (15:42):
but I got these flowy linen pants and wore them, I
have to say they're verycomfortable, but I was very
insecure because it's outside ofmy normal style.
And my son said they looked likefat pants.
He was like, I'm not telling youthat you look fat.
I'm saying that the pants arefat.
(16:04):
In his mind, he's trying to saythat like the Yes.
They were like, you know, likewide legs.
Yeah.
Lowy.
And he only sees me in likeskinny jeans, the legging.
So like the pants look fat tohim.
I get it.
I wore that and in my head I'mlike.
Everyone's looking at me.
They're thinking, what is shedoing wearing that?
why is she in fat pants forEaster?
(16:26):
I couldn't even tell you whatmost people had on this weekend
at church.
Like, I'm not thinking about it,you know?
But in my head, everyone wasstaring at my outfit.
Kristen (16:38):
That's so funny.
Also, you have to send a pictureof you in your fat pants so we
can post it for
Kelly (16:44):
everyone.
Great.
Perfect.
Alexis (16:51):
Oh, that's too funny.
I think we can all relate tothat though.
I think that's just like a wholegirl thing.
Even like I was thinking aboutthis with swimsuits I mean, I am
not what I was in my.
Teens or twenties, But then Ithink about it and I admire
those women who are not societystandards of like the magazine
covers and they're out thererocking their bikinis and I'm
(17:13):
like, oh, you go like, I couldnot do that, but I applaud you
and I am proud of you because.
You really get it.
And I need to get where you are.
Kristen (17:26):
I try so hard with that 'cause I struggle with that.
you've probably seen the thingson social media where it's like,
it's more about being of my kidsand it's not about what I look
like.
everybody is a bikini body.
You just put it on so you canget in the pool and play with
your kids.
I get that.
Like I support that.
I do that and I will even, Theword fake comes to mind.
(17:46):
It sounds worse, but like fakethat I'm confident.
I'll wear my bathing suit get inthe pool and have a great time
And then afterwards, if I seepictures of myself, I'm like,
Ugh.
Is that really what I look like?
Well, my kid doesn't care what Ilook Like I am out there having
fun.
My friends don't care what Ilook like because they're not my
friends, because of how skinnyor not.
It's more on the knot side.
I look in a bathing suit, likeit's because of my stunning
(18:10):
personality and my sense ofhumor and my wit, and wisdom.
that's why people are myfriends.
I think that's why you guys aremy friends, right?
but you're right.
nobody cares what you look likein a bathing suit because
they're also focused aboutthinking about what they look
like in a bathing suit.
Kelly (18:26):
Yeah, it's
Kristen (18:27):
true.
Kelly (18:28):
So true.
Kristen (18:30):
It's hard, but it's true.
That's a great example.
So guys, I'm gonna read to youthe chapter titles, and I'll go
slowly so you can hear them all.
let me know which ones come outthat you're either most excited
about or you think mightresonate with you.
there's 14, so I'll go slowly.
Line number one today, I'll beperfect.
(18:54):
Line number two.
I have to keep up with theKardashians and also my
neighbor, Tammy, lie numberthree, they forgot my name again
and I think I might actually beinvisible.
Lie number four, I'm going toneed to shrink, suck it all in,
quiet down, and possiblydisappear.
(19:14):
Lie number five.
Pretending to be fine is thesame thing as being fine.
Line number six.
If I'm rejected, I will die.
Lie number seven, my job is tokeep people happy and make sure
they like me.
Lie Number eight, neighbors areweird.
(19:36):
Lie number nine.
Asking for help is a terribleidea because then everyone is
going to know I need help.
Lie number 10, I'm a juniorvarsity adult and the best spot
for me is usually the bench.
Lie number 11, it's better notto try than to mess up in front
of everyone.
(19:57):
Lie number 12, I can't do thatbecause no one does that lie.
Number 13, if I can't go big, Ishould just go home and the
final lie, lie number 14.
It's better to dream smallbecause then I won't be
disappointed.
Now, just let this sink in for aminute.
(20:19):
First question.
Have you thought any of thosethings before?
Yeah.
Any of them.
Yeah.
Right.
Like even as I'm reading themout loud, I'm like, oh, that
one.
Oh, that one.
Oh, that one too.
which ones of them kind ofresonated or feel like kind of
aligned to where you're at?
I'll go first if that makes youfeel better.
(20:41):
not in any order.
The ones that got me.
my job is to keep people happy,make sure they like me.
asking for help is terrible.
It's better to try than to notmess up.
I think those are the ones thatare really bad.
Oh, and pretending to be fine isthe same thing as being fine.
It's fine.
I'm fine.
Everything's fine.
What about you
Kelly (21:01):
guys?
go ahead Alyssa.
Alexis (21:02):
Kristen, I probably have almost the exact same ones.
We could probably add a couplemore I'm laughing because the
neighbors are weird kind ofthing.
I say that my neighbors areweird.
There may be some truth to thatone.
what's that one gonna be about?
Because there is some, you know,like there's some things, but
then I just think, whatever, letthem do what they wanna do
(21:24):
because I'm gonna do what Iwanna do.
But man, we, there's a lot, andI think there's a lot of overlap
with what you and I had.
the biggest one is 11.
It's better not to try.
Then to mess up in front ofeveryone.
I mean, yeah, that's mutual tea.
I will not, I should be, shouldhave been like an etiquette
(21:47):
school where you have to be allprim and proper and cannot be
goofy or act out anywherebecause heaven forbid anybody
look at me and think that I'mmessing up or doing something
weird.
Kristen (22:01):
Right.
Kelly's already conquering thatone because she's gonna be on
the worship team and she isgonna do it in front of
everybody.
Yeah, but be amazing.
Kelly (22:12):
I'm gonna wear my, for my, why not just throw an extra
insecurity in there.
I think we need videos of this.
our services are live streamed,Perfect.
Alexis (22:23):
I love that.
I'm cheering you on.
I won't be thinking anythingfunny.
I'll just cheering on.
It'll
Kelly (22:29):
be good.
It'll be good.
You're gonna be like, look atthose fan wearing.
Best fat pants ever.
He tried to make me feel evenbetter.
He was like, no, you're not fat.
I'm talking about the pants.
If I wore those pants, mommy, Iwould probably look really fat
too.
Kristen (22:49):
Let's
Kelly (22:49):
just not try to make this better.
You're making it worse.
Oh, anyways, so number one.
It stuck out to me because Ifeel like I go through this
never ending cycle all the timewhere I go to bed at night, I
reflect on my day, I think aboutwhere I failed.
(23:12):
And how I could have done thisbetter and I could have been
better here and I could haveresponded to my son better, you
know, in this situation orwhatever.
And so then I think, okay,tomorrow.
I'm gonna do better with this,this, this, and this.
And then the next day comes andwith best of intentions, I will
(23:33):
fail in one way or another.
it's just a cycle because then Iget really hard on myself for
having failed in whatever area.
after a little while of tryingand failing, I think, what's the
point?
And then I get into these rutswhere I just am like, this is as
(23:54):
good as it gets.
I'm a terrible mother.
I'm a terrible wife.
I'm a terrible employee,whatever the case may be.
and then I'll try to pull myselfout of it.
I'm like, okay, I can do this.
And then, it's just the samecycle of like, tomorrow I'm
gonna do.
better So that one immediatelystuck out to me.
Kristen (24:17):
that one is the overarching, one of all the
other things, because if I wereperfect, then none of these
other things would bother mebecause I would already be
perfect, but I'm not.
Kelly (24:28):
Right.
Kristen (24:30):
And that's okay.
Because nobody wants to beperfect and taste like kale,
except for Alexis who loveskale.
And that's okay too.
Kelly (24:39):
Yeah.
The rest of us wanna taste likebuffalo chicken over here, but
not Alexis.
Or like a pizza.
Alexis (24:45):
And you wanna laugh?
I like neither one of thosethings.
I really don't like pizza and Idefinitely don't like buffalo
chicken.
we can
Kristen (24:53):
laugh at this.
Even more allows for me.
No.
Okay.
let's combine them then Alexis,to something you'll hate even
more.
Kelly and I are all over abuffalo chicken pizza.
Yes.
The last time I was at Kelly'shouse, that's what we had
Alexis (25:08):
You feel like my kids that want barbecue chicken
pizza.
I get that too.
Oh, it's so good.
Kelly (25:15):
Gross.
Anything?
Anything?
Buffalo.
I'm there.
Jeff birthday is Thursday and hehas requested like I make every
year for his birthday, BuffaloChicken Alfredo.
Alexis (25:24):
Mm.
Alfred and Buffalo Chickenshouldn't be mixed together.
That alone, they
Kelly (25:31):
should.
Alfred
Kristen (25:34):
creaminess of it like.
Kelly (25:36):
So good.
Mm-hmm.
I'll take your
Alexis (25:38):
word for it.
I will probably neverexperiment, but if I come visit
and you make it, I will gladlyeat it and give you my honest,
nice opinion.
She'll be like, this shouldreally have a side of
Kristen (25:49):
kale with it.
Like, where's
Alexis (25:51):
the
Kelly (25:52):
kale?
Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tellher by making a side of kale's
with it for his birthday andwhat he says.
Kristen (26:00):
He'll be like divorce papers.
It's been a fun 10 years
Kelly (26:04):
allowed sister, her friends.
Kristen (26:07):
Fine, Jeff.
So back on track.
I think we can agree that thisbook is for us I wanted to read
a highlight from the bookbecause, in thinking about like,
who's this book for, like whowould wanna join our book club?
Who wants to talk?
Who wants to read this book?
Who wants to be a part of it?
I wanted to share this part fromthe introduction too.
this book is for every girl whohas ever scribbled in her diary,
(26:28):
I don't know what's wrong withme.
It's for every mom who has everthrown her hands up into despair
saying, I try so hard and Ican't seem to get it right.
It's for anyone who's felt likean outsider, unsure how she'd
ever get in, it's for every girlwho's ever gone on a crash diet
trying to be a sigh, she had nobusiness being.
It's for every woman who hasever gone through a breakup and
(26:51):
thought it was because she wastoo.
It's for every girl who has eversnapped at her family and melted
into a public of shame thinking,why can't I just get it
together?
It's also for a special,slightly more specialized group.
Spoiler me, the kind who managesto lose their keys 20 times a
week.
It's for all of us.
(27:13):
And that's what Jess wrote inthe introduction, which I feel
is very poignant.
I'm pretty sure I have been mostof those girls that she mentions
in that paragraph.
I've written in my diary that Ihave felt like an outsider.
I've gone on crash diets.
gone through a breakup or friendor relationship wise and thought
it was my fault.
(27:34):
Like it's because I'm toowhatever.
I snapped at my family.
so that's me.
How about you guys?
Kelly (27:41):
A lot of the things you were reading there, I was like,
Same.
Alexis (27:44):
I can relate I'm, not a writer, so I've never journaled
or written in a diary, which Iknow sounds kind of weird, But I
think about these things a lotand like goals and maybe make
more like plan or goals.
they would be more in my plannergoal thing.
I can relate to so much of that.
Kristen (28:02):
Alexis, I think you took some notes through the
intro too.
Were there any quotes that stuckout to you that you'd wanna
share?
Alexis (28:10):
So the first one we compare, way too much.
And social media has not helpedus in that area.
And I know Kristen, we'vediscussed this a lot.
Mm-hmm.
well, when we've done podcastsand social media just portrays
these things and I think it'sdone such a disservice to.
(28:35):
the later generations.
I don't know, as millennialswe've kind of grown into it, but
I see it so much more among theyounger generations.
there's such a comparison andthe need to do what everybody
else is doing on social media.
I really think it has beendetrimental, in that regard.
that was my first one that Ireally liked.
(28:57):
And then I really liked thisparagraph.
What if I flipped the script?
And this wasn't actually athing.
What if life was for trying outstuff, breaking out in random
dances and making mistakes andmuch rather life be more like a
trampoline park where trippingand falling just adds to the
fun.
I really like that because.
(29:18):
It kind of gave like a, whereyou could make mistakes and just
do those things there is no waythat I would just break out in a
random dance because somebodymight see me and I might make a
mistake.
So I just really liked that andit stuck with me I wish there
was room for that and I need tomake more room for that.
Kristen (29:41):
I highlighted that line too, and I love that because I
also don't break out in randomdance, but I wish that I could,
like I have joke with peoplethat I wish real life was like a
musical in musicals there's asong for everything that happens
and the entire cast jumps intosong and dance for the littlest
thing that's going on.
I would love for my life to be amusical.
(30:03):
That's one of my dreams in life.
The whole world is a musical.
the thought of it being atrampoline park, you know, and
Kelly, you mentioned earlierabout how even the title is kind
of funny and you like to laughat yourself and do things like
that.
Like what if life were more likethat, where we didn't take
ourselves so seriously and we'rejust hopping along, trampolines,
bouncing from one to the next,flipping falling.
(30:24):
what if it could be like that?
Kelly (30:28):
when we're kids, we are so much more like that.
Like talking about breaking outinto random dance.
My son does that all the time inthe store and I try to never
make him feel silly for thatbecause I hope that lasts for a
long time for him, and I don'tever wanna make him feel like he
(30:52):
should be.
Insecure for doing those things.
he did it today.
We went over to my friend'shouse and we're standing in our
kitchen and all of a sudden he'sjust dancing I wish we could all
have that mindset of just notcaring.
obviously within reason,
Kristen (31:07):
be safe, but
Kelly (31:09):
let's not be gross and not care, just, you know, silly.
So yeah, it's interest.
We start that way and then atsome point we start gaining all
of these insecurities and fearsof what other people are
thinking of us.
Alexis (31:28):
It's really interesting that you say your kids do that.
even as a kid, I did not dothings like this.
we would go to the store and mysisters would be insane, and I
would get so mad at them becauseI felt like, and I was young, I
was only 6, 7, 8, and they weredoing stuff and I would get so
mad because I felt like theywere drawing attention to us and
(31:51):
I didn't like it.
So maybe I just have an issue,but I have always been like
that, so it's weird.
Let's not draw attention toourselves.
Let's act appropriately.
And dancing is not appropriate,which, okay, I know that's not
the case, but as a kid, that'show I felt.
it's just really hard for me.
Kristen (32:09):
It's funny because as I'm saying, like, oh no, I
wouldn't do that.
And then Kelly, you gave yourexample about your son.
I'm like, oh wait.
But I do that all the time.
we'll be at Walmart, and Walmarthas a very good soundtrack like
Walmart Radio, love it.
They play all the jams that Ilove.
And I will often find myselfmoving to the music while we're
in an aisle.
(32:29):
I mean, not like all outdancing, but my husband will get
so mad at me, he'll be like,what are you doing?
Stop that.
and it's not like I'm dancingthrough the aisles, but my body
feels the music and I am justmoving with it.
And then all of a sudden you'resaying that and I'm like, oh,
but I don't.
Care as much what people atWalmart think about me mostly.
'cause I don't know most ofthem.
Although we're in a small town,I almost always see at least one
(32:51):
person I know when I go toWalmart.
maybe I need to treat my lifemore like Walmart and dancing at
Walmart where I don't care whatpeople think.
Alexis (32:58):
I wish I could be like that.
Even my husband is a big justway out dance and I'm almost
embarrassed for him.
I'm like, oh, don't do that.
and that's what was terrible asI say that.
But I just learned to laugh.
Usually I just laugh and he'lltry to grab me Dancing is not my
forte.
Maybe we could just have it besomething different.
Kristen (33:16):
Maybe.
Would you prefer him to sing?
Could he sing Burst out intosong?
Maybe you should just break outand song instead.
Kelly (33:23):
That still
Alexis (33:24):
supports my make the world of musical.
Oh yeah.
we could both sing This might,there actually might be
something more going on withthis.
I think I've told you aboutthis, Kristen, where I have
auditory processing issue andI've had it since I was a kid
sometimes people that have whatI have, they don't enjoy music.
(33:45):
They don't enjoy that.
They actually are tone deaf.
You can't sing.
That probably has something todo with it because I really
don't like music.
I would rather listen to anaudiobook or a podcast or not
have music.
Even when I used midwives to formy birth, and my midwives would
be like, well, don't you wannaplay music?
And my husband's like, don'teven play music.
(34:06):
She's just gonna get irritated.
So it might have something to dowith that.
And, that's really just.
A brain issue.
That's probably just somethingwith me, but even if it was just
being silly and loud and crazy,I would struggle with it.
I think at certain points in mylife I've done better.
and I do better now that I havekids and I can be around kids
(34:29):
and their silly and goofiness.
Kristen (34:30):
I think that's all very interesting.
I know you had talked about theauditory thing, but I didn't
realize that the whole musicthing and the way that is.
That's really interesting.
Well guys, going forward, I knoweveryone is like, okay, this
sounds really great.
I wanna read the book.
How can I be a part of it?
here's where I tell you how.
the book naturally breaks itselfinto three parts.
(34:52):
part one, part two, part three,and the 14 lies are through all
of it.
So we are going to separate itand go into those three main
parts, one per week and thenwe'll discuss it.
So where we're at right now,today is May 7th, So you're
gonna listen to this episodetoday and this week you are
(35:15):
going to read part one.
Which is lies one through five.
then we're going to talk aboutthose chapters next week on May
14th.
So May 14th, you'll listen toepisode two, but that week
you're gonna read part two, liessix through Nine.
Then the next week, May 21st,our third episode.
(35:38):
You're going to listen to thatepisode on the 21st, and that
week you're gonna be readingLies 10 through 14.
that's gonna wrap up the end ofthe book.
So then our May 28th episode,we'll talk about that part and
kind of some final thoughts.
I am working with some ideas fora super special finale,
afterwards.
details to follow on that one.
(35:59):
That's how it's gonna work forreading and listening to keep
everybody involved.
you wanna know how to beinvolved.
since we're gonna be reading thebook together and talking about
the week after, this should givesome time for if there's
something you read that you, I.
Think, you wanna talk about, youcan send me an email, talk with
Kristen with an e@gmail.com.
(36:21):
You can message me on Facebook,you can go to the Facebook page
there.
You can DM me on Instagram,however you wanna do, but also
also new and exciting.
there is a Google form.
You can go to the links in mybio.
where you can go and you cangive your name optional.
you can say which part you arecommenting on.
(36:43):
Throw your comments in the textbox.
Let me know if you want me toshare it with your name, share
it without your name or notshare it.
You just wanted to tell it tome.
That's fine too.
I will be respectful of howeveryou wanna do that.
but that way if you don't wantto go all in on one of the
platforms, there is a way whereyou can just reach out and put
your information in anonymouslytoo, if that's something you
(37:04):
would like to do.
Kelly and Alexis are gonna bealong with us on this journey.
if you have comments for Kellyand Alexis, you can send them to
me and I am happy to share withthem also.
And, we're looking forward tohaving everybody on this
journey.
before we wrap up this initial.
Club episode.
(37:26):
Any final thoughts from the twoof you, or any questions you
guys have of how we're gonna dothis?
Because this is the first timewe've done something like this.
We're trying it out, see howit's gonna work.
Alexis (37:34):
I am really excited for a book club because I love
reading and I wanted to do bookclub forever, so I'm excited for
this and I actually hope it goesreally well so we can do more of
them, even if they're self-helpbooks because maybe I need more
self-help books.
Kelly (37:52):
Yeah, I'm excited too.
I used to be in a book club andI haven't been for like a year
and a half now, I'm excited toget back to reading something
and then discussing with people.
It's gonna be fun.
Kristen (38:06):
I am excited too, because, this has been a long
time in the works because KellyAlexis and I had talked about
doing a book club over a yearago now.
Or was it a year ago?
Well, we were gonna do it on TheNightingale, right?
Kelly (38:19):
Yeah.
we all read it and like we, youknow, like attempted.
Pretend we were gonna have aconversation about it, and it
just never
Kristen (38:26):
happened.
it took a minute because we wereall at different places.
Like one of us we're like, okay,we're gonna read it and then
like, oh, I've gotta read thisother book for a book club.
And then oh, I don't have thebook yet.
it was back and forth.
we finally all read it.
We're like, all right, let's dothis.
But then like life happened andwe never got around to it.
And then Frozen River, which oneof you read that first?
Kelly.
Was it you?
Kelly (38:46):
I read that, oh goodness, when did I read it?
I think it was like early falllast year or maybe end of
summer,
Kristen (38:54):
He probably recommended it to me and then I'm like, oh
my gosh, we have to get togetherand do this because fun story,
Kelly and Alexis have never met.
Alexis is my friend fromcollege.
Kelly is my sister-in-law, andthey have so many things in
common They're both working fromhome.
They both homeschool, they bothknow me.
They both read the same kind ofbooks, like it was like a match
(39:15):
made in heaven.
I'm like, oh my gosh, you guyshave to be friends.
So we're doing this now and I'mso excited I think it's great to
start with this book, but I amalso open to other books it's
gonna be a great time.
Alexis (39:28):
we already have a couple books like we've read.
We can do book club for a couplemore and bring along more people
to join us.
Yes,
Kristen (39:36):
it'd be fantastic.
On or off the podcast.
I mean, it'll be great.
We'll get a whole thing goingthe talk with Kristen with an
book club and then read withKristen with an evil show up
too, because like she iseverywhere all the time.
With Talk with Chris.
It's bizarre to have these twohang out all the time.
All right, guys.
this has been fantastic.
(39:56):
Anything you wanna say to thelisteners, people out there?
Is there anything that you wouldwanna say to encourage them to
join our virtual book club, orshare with them about being a
part of this and discussing it?
Any thoughts on that?
Kelly (40:10):
I think they're fun.
So I think everyone should wantto listen and read along with
us.
before I was ever in a bookclub, I never really understood
the hype over it.
but then I was in one and itactually is so fun.
If you like reading, if youdon't like reading, then maybe
not.
But audio books are always anoption if sitting and reading a
(40:31):
book is not your thing, so youcan still participate.
And it is actually so fun to bereading the same material and
then discussing it with people.
Kristen (40:40):
Mm-hmm.
I'm hoping too that even ifpeople don't want to read it,
just by listening to us, they'llbe able to learn and get
something from it too, so thatit'll still be valuable.
So maybe it's almost likesecondhand reading, like we'll
read it.
Mm-hmm.
And then as we're talking aboutit, people can learn some of the
truths from that, that may helpthem be their true, authentic
self and not feel the need to bequote unquote.
(41:02):
Perfect.
Kelly (41:05):
Agreed.
Alexis (41:06):
Alexis?
I would encourage people to pickup a book and read if you don't
already have a habit of reading.
Best thing I ever did was deletemy subscriptions for Netflix and
start picking up a book andreading, you know, 15 minutes a
day.
pretty soon I was reading, anhour before bedtime and it was
(41:28):
the best thing I have done Iread a lot of fluff books, but I
also read some other good books.
But just doing that got me offdoom scrolling on, social media
it also spurred a love ofreading to my kids.
They weren't big readers beforethat.
now, we can all be found on thecouch with our nose and.
(41:49):
So I recommend, even if youdon't join Book Club, but just
Billy, come join us.
Pick up a book and read becausethere's so many amazing stories
in a found in a book.
Kristen (42:00):
Love it.
This is where we cue the readingRainbow music.
True.
I look in a book.
okay, final question and then Ipromise we'll be done.
Kelly, I heard you say that youare listening to this book.
So you've got the audiobook?
Yes.
I am doing an ebook.
So I've got it on my Kindle.
(42:20):
And Alexis, how are you readingthe book?
Alexis (42:24):
On my Kindle is an ebook because, well, you can't do a
physical book, although I didpick up one from the free little
library from my walk the otherday.
And I'm trying it, it might bethe first physical book I've
read in two years.
Outside of school books, becauseour school books are all.
Physical, but a personal bookthat I'm reading, if that makes
(42:45):
sense.
Kristen (42:45):
So we'll compare that to how the digital book and the
audio book differ or how we feelwe're learning from it.
thank you so much for joiningand listeners hope that you'll
read along and we'll meet withyou next week to talk about part
one.
All right.
Bye guys.
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