May 5, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode, join host Gevorg Ghazaryan as he sits down with Alex Bomstein, the Executive Director of Clean Air Council in Philadelphia, to discuss the importance of clean air advocacy.
As the Executive Director of Clean Air Council, Alex shares insights into the organization's initiatives and mission to fight air pollution and promote environmental health. They delve into the challenges and opportunities in sustainability, including funding constraints and policy barriers.
Highlighting the vital role of community engagement, Alex and Gevorg discuss strategies for involving people in environmental initiatives and adopting sustainable practices in daily life. They offer practical tips for individuals looking to make a positive impact on the environment and emphasize the collective responsibility to advocate for a cleaner, greener future.
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Alex Bomstein as we learn more about the importance of clean air advocacy and the collective efforts needed to protect our planet. Tune in to "Talking Environment" and be inspired to take action for a healthier environment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome everyone to another episode of Talking Environment.
(00:03):
I'm your host, Gevorg Ghazaryan, and I'm thrilled to have all of you today.
Today's episode promises to be enlightening as we dive into the world of
clean air at VOXY with a very special guest.
But before we begin, let's take a moment to appreciate the importance of clean air,
as it isn't just about breathing easy.
(00:24):
And it's about ensuring the health and the well-being of our communities,
protecting the environment and fighting climate change.
And it's a fundamental right that we must strive to keep for current and future generations.
So joining us today is Alex Pomstein, who is the executive director of the Clean Air Council
(00:49):
that is based in Philadelphia.
So Alex, it's a pleasure to have you on the show.
It's a delight to be on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
Of course. So to start with, I guess, could you please just give us a brief overview of
what you do or about the Clean Air Council?
Yeah, of course. So Clean Air Council has been around since 1967.
(01:12):
So it's a very old organization at this point.
It was started by the Lung Associations back when there were regional lung associations.
And we have worked for the last, you know, getting close to 60 years now
to protect everybody's right to a healthy environment throughout not only the Philadelphia region,
but throughout the mid-Atlantic.
(01:34):
So we mostly work in Pennsylvania, but we do some work in neighboring states as well.
And we're really kind of a one-stop shop for environmental advocacy, education, litigation,
policy, all those sorts of things.
Awesome. That's great.
It's nice to hear that.
And could you please also give us a more specific overview of the initiatives that you do or maybe
(02:01):
some of the events that you have done?
Absolutely.
The digital automation?
Yeah. So a lot of our work lately has been focused on the energy economy in Pennsylvania
and the fossil fuel industry in Pennsylvania.
In the mid-2000s, there was the beginning of a boom in fracking in Pennsylvania.
And that completely changed the landscape of environmental protection here.
(02:25):
In the last 20 years, you've had this enormous growth in dirty infrastructure in Pennsylvania.
So a lot of our work has been to fight back that dirty infrastructure to protect our communities.
At the same time, we're focused on expanding the new green energy economy,
(02:47):
which is really centered around renewables. So that has been a lot of our work.
But we also have a strong transportation team that focuses on making sure that people have
good, healthy, affordable, and clean commuting and transit opportunities in the Philadelphia area
(03:07):
and a variety of other programs such as the tobacco program.
Awesome. That's great to hear.
And here at UPembe, some of the main things that we also do is also centering around the renewable
energy. And recently, the university got to announce that over 70% or 80% of the whole energy
(03:28):
that is powering, even these microphones and the video cameras and everything, is coming from
renewable energy.
That's fantastic. That's far ahead of a lot of people.
Yeah. So we are excited about that.
And talking about the environmental protection, a couple of days ago was the Earth Day.
Yes.
Many countries, many people around the world and organizations celebrated Earth Day.
(03:53):
And I wanted to know, so you have been involved in this field for a pretty long time.
How do you think people's opinion on how do people celebrate Earth Day has changed?
Do they take it more seriously? Do they take it more seriously?
Do they try to get involved in the events or try to make it meaningful today?
(04:14):
Yeah. So it's a great question. And it makes me think about this statistic, which I'm totally
going to butcher. So the first Earth Day was, I think it was 1970. And at the time, I think it was
something like one in 10 Americans got out to celebrate that first Earth Day. It was a huge
(04:37):
portion of the population. And honestly, even though the environmental issues that we're facing
are very salient and threatening today, we don't see that level of participation from people,
which I think there's a lot of reasons for that. But in some ways, our environment has gotten a lot
(05:00):
cleaner. And in other ways, it's gotten a lot dirtier. And it depends on how you look at it.
So we don't have, due to the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act, which came about around the
same time as that first Earth Day, we don't have rivers that are as easily set on fire as we used
to. And that's a wonderful thing. The air in Philadelphia is cleaner than it used to be due
(05:21):
to the Clean Air Act. Also another wonderful thing. At the same time, we have a much higher
level of climate pollution in the atmosphere. Our oceans are a lot more acidic. We have had very
recently, within the last week or so, the largest coral reef dieback in, I don't know how long, but
(05:41):
quite a long time. So there are a lot of very pressing issues today. And I think it's really
critical to engage people more. I think it's very critical in particular to engage people more
in banding together and joining to bring their people power, their organized people power to
the forefront. Because that's where we're strongest, is when we work together to really fight these
(06:08):
threats that we have. Definitely. And we have also, so Markur, that the organization I'm also
representing, we have also organized with the Earth Day, the organization that done the cleanup on
1970. Oh, nice. We have organized a big cleanup on an event in Armenia too. But
(06:29):
we've involved, I think participated about 600 people, 700 people. That's fantastic.
And, but the main concern I had is, so most of the people get excited about the Earth Day,
going out, doing cleanup and all that stuff. But then the day after the Earth Day, some of the
people will just throw the trash they picked up yesterday. And I think that's a great problem too.
(06:56):
And what do you think about it? Yeah, I agree completely. I think it's really,
it's one of the hardest questions that I've struggled with over the course of my environmental
organizing and activism over the years. In the 90s, I was in high school. And I was part of an
(07:18):
environmental club in my high school. And we didn't have a very good idea of how to make change,
which, you know, we were high schoolers. It was also the 90s. And there was a different,
it was a different time. And people had a different kind of understanding of how to make change in the
environmental world. I'll tell you that in the 2020s, you know, I've come to believe that
(07:42):
what makes the most difference in the world is doing really thoughtful analysis of who are making
the decisions that are harmful to us. How do we get to them through our organizing? How do we
convince them to make change or just become powerful enough that they have to change?
(08:05):
So that's the thing too. We're not always going to get the change we want simply by asking for it.
And I'll give you an example. So the fossil fuel industry does not want to, you know,
shutter their business, right? Understandably. But the fossil fuel industry is the single biggest
threat we face today. The single biggest threat. So, you know, our job is to look at what are the
(08:33):
things they're doing that are harmful to us. For example, a lot of the industry looks now in the
2020s and sees a world that's understanding that the climate crisis we're in is devastating. And
they're going to have to do business differently rather than saying, OK, we'll switch to, you know,
(08:57):
renewable energy, battery storage, things like that. They've switched gears to a different sort
of tactic. Instead, we'll promote plastics because we can turn our product into plastics or we will
promote carbon capture and say that, you know, we'll be able to bring it out of the air.
(09:20):
So, you know, bring the carbon out of the air. So it's OK if we keep burning our fossil fuels
in the meantime. These are things that are very harmful to us. So we need to go to the source
when people are proposing, you know, a new power plant that might, you know, say it's going to use
some carbon capture or promote but is based on fossil fuels or a new petrochemical facility
(09:44):
that is going to make plastic wrappers for, you know, for potato chips or whatever, you know.
How do we organize to stop those proposals? So that's a critical thing, I think, that we need to
do. We can change our behavior and our behavior matters. But I think what matters more is the
(10:05):
behavior of the industries and the politicians and others who really have the power to do us harm in
a very direct way. I see. Yeah, that's a great point as trying to kind of mostly affect the people
who are standing behind the big changes. And talking about that, how do you think, what kind
(10:32):
of challenges the organizations and the representatives of the organizations face in trying to,
let's say, fight these challenges and express our opinions to the organizations that mostly
do this harm? Because it can be through the governmental policies that do not let us to
(10:58):
do much in this field or the financial constraints, the funding constraints that come from the
government, that come from the multiple other sources. So being a person involved in this field
for a long time, how would you say, what are the main barriers we face in this field that do not
(11:19):
let us to have a bigger change? Yeah, that's a very big question.
You can also just list a couple. We can discuss them.
Well, I mean, a lot of it breaks down to the power differential, really. I mean,
I mean, these industries have endless money, essentially. They have endless money. Because
(11:41):
of that, they have the ear of a lot of politicians. They write legislation for politicians to pass
into law. And that's very difficult to go up against. But what we have is numbers. So
the people who aren't making bank off of the fossil fuel industry, but who are breathing in
(12:04):
their pollution, drinking their pollution, living in despoiled areas because of their work,
we are way more numerous. We can outvote them. We can out organize them. And that's what we have
(12:26):
to do. This is how we have to do it. But those barriers are huge. And a lot of times,
there's something that we lose a lot, right? We win a lot. We just had a great win last week.
We've been fighting together with Save Our Susquehanna and some other groups this proposal
(12:48):
for a company that was saying that it would take plastic waste and turn it into sellable chemicals.
And it's kind of a long story, but it's part of a larger industry effort, again, fossil fuel
industry, plastics industry, to make it look like plastics are recyclable and a clean part of the
(13:08):
economy when they're not. Right? So this proposal was for this giant facility, it would have taken
450,000 tons of plastic waste is what it said every year, and turned it through this refinery
type process into a mix of chemicals and hazardous waste and air pollution and water pollution.
(13:31):
Those things. And we were collectively able to defeat it. Right? So we do have wins. But
it's hard to get there. And it's an ongoing battle.
Definitely. It usually takes a long, long time to even fight the changes that the organizations
(13:54):
can make in a day or two. Exactly. Yeah, it's about the power differential, definitely. And
about the plastics, today, this year's Earth Day topic was planet versus plastic, right?
Yes. It also evolves around that. And how would you say the funding looks for the organizations
(14:18):
that try to fight these challenges? I mean, I looked up, I recently looked up the funding sources
of the, let's say, Pennsylvania's government or the state, what it provides. But compared to the
bigger picture, for most of the organizations, it's just really small numbers. And a lot of the
(14:41):
organizations, most of the organizations, I would say, heavily rely on donations from people,
donations from investors or supporters who think this is an issue. For example, one of the
biggest Armenian organizations is called Armenian Treaty Organization. And it's a very important
(15:04):
tree project. They have an office in Washington, DC. And their funding, over 90% come from
individuals and people who try to donate, let's say, $10, $50, which comes to a bigger picture.
And the reality is the governments, they don't support the organizations that much. And
(15:29):
how would you think that is the case with the Clean Air Council? Have you guys,
how do you try to fight these challenges? It's absolutely the case here too. So our budget is
somewhere between three and four million at the moment. Now compare that. So compare that to the
subsidy that Pennsylvania gave the Shell Plastics Plant in Western Pennsylvania, which just came
(15:53):
online not too long ago. The subsidy, the tax subsidy that the state gave them was over a billion
dollars of subsidy. That's how much the state is subsidizing the single use plastics industry in
Pennsylvania. So you have a billion dollars on one hand, you have our budget of a few million on the
(16:15):
other hand. It's a huge disparity. But, you know, it really does. Contributions from individuals are
a big part of our budget. They matter enormously. And frankly, they're a big part of the budget of
most environmental organizations that I'm aware of. We also get funding from foundations that are
(16:37):
supportive and which is wonderful and critical as well. So the resources are very different,
but you can kind of think of it, maybe this is not the best analogy, but you can kind of think of it
as asymmetrical warfare, right? So you have a very strong, well-financed force on the other hand,
(17:01):
on the one hand, on the one side and on the other side, you have a lot of people power, people
who know the terrain, people whose homes it is, right? Who are fighting back. And so...
But not much power and money.
Yeah, with not as much money, not as much support, but they can be very strong, very powerful.
(17:22):
So that's, I think, really what it looks like. And honestly, it is a kind of warfare that we're
dealing with here, because you have these companies, these governments that come into our
communities and they kill us. They kill us through air pollution, they kill us through water pollution,
through taking away our local economies. It's the number of people who die worldwide from air
(17:50):
pollution is astonishing. It's one of the top killers worldwide. And that includes in Pennsylvania.
So it's violence that's being dealt upon us and we're collectively fighting back.
Yeah, definitely. And talking about donations, I would like to also thank all the people who
(18:11):
make the donations to the organizations and keep them alive, let's say, because every single dollar,
even $10, will matter in a big picture, even though we are fighting to get the money back.
We are fighting to get most of the organizations are fighting to get more funding from the
government itself. The main driving force are still the donations in this case. So thank you.
(18:37):
Thank you for that. Yeah, I'll chime in also. Thank you. Super critical. Awesome. And how would
you say, I mean, it's kind of the answer is, I'd say obvious, but how would you rate the role of
(18:58):
the community in fighting these challenges? For example, in our organization, in Makubi,
that's where our mission is based. And we call everyone to get together and make their small
groups in their communities. And even it can be through establishing a university club, or it can
(19:25):
be through joining an organization in your community. Or it can be just going outside,
maybe once in a week, picking a couple of pieces of trash. And you can with with that small actions,
I think people can become a part of the bigger picture. And that definitely doesn't solve all
the big problems, for example, with the fossil fuel organizations. So in that in that big pictures,
(19:49):
how would you say how would you rate the role of the community here? And yeah, how important it is
to be united? I think it's indispensable, indispensable. There's no way you can't do
the work otherwise. So last Saturday, kind of Earth Day weekend, I guess people don't know necessarily, April 20.
(20:15):
April 20, I was in Chester for the Environmental Justice Day Caravan in March that CIRCLE, which is
an environmental justice group in Chester, organized. And CIRCLE, the Chester Residents
Concern for Quality Living, has a number of threats facing their community. One is this giant trash
(20:38):
incinerator that is, I believe, at least by some measure, is the largest in the country. And it's
in Chester. And they have another incinerator from Delcora, I believe it is, in the community as well.
In addition, a liquefied natural gas export terminal has been proposed for their community.
There's a lot of stuff threatening their community. And the community has banded together and done
(21:04):
amazing work together. And you can't do this effort alone. I mean, what would you
even do alone? Together, you can power map to figure out who has power in a particular
situation you're trying to change, right? You can organize the community, knock on doors,
(21:30):
talk to your neighbors. You can fundraise as a community. You can hire lawyers if you need to,
do good communications work, do lobbying efforts, you know, all of these things you can do as a
community. And it's those sort of nitty gritty, nuts and bolts environmental work that make change.
(21:58):
And I think the absolute first step is collecting, you know, collecting with like-minded people and
people who are fighting for a common cause. Awesome. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I mean,
we started our movement. It was a video saying it sounded a bit cheesy at the moment, but
(22:19):
in the capital of Armenia, Yerevan, there are about around 1 million people. And we did some
research, we did some calculations. And it was like, if every single person picked up a couple
of pieces of trash, we would get rid of the little problem, which is a huge problem in
some of the countries. And that is just one simple example of what the collectiveness can do
(22:45):
in fighting these issues. Again, like litter issues might not be the biggest problems now that we can
face. But litter is a problem. And I encourage folks also whenever we talk about litter to
take a look, do what some folks call like a brand survey or a brand audit. Yeah, that's
(23:07):
something that we have done for the cleanup events. And the Earth Day, I think, is
organizing that too for these events during the Earth Day. It was a brand audit, so
figuring out which brands have the most litter in the streets. Exactly. And then you can go to the
(23:29):
and you have some accountability. Because it's one thing we shouldn't litter, and that makes
all of our lives worse when we do. We also shouldn't have plastic wrappers that don't biodegrade in the
environment and collect. When we stored things in paper more often, the paper would break down in
the environment fairly readily. But the plastics industry has made all of our daily lives
(23:57):
so much more polluting than it used to be. It's remarkable. Yeah, about plastics that are being
wrapped. I remember one time I ordered something. It was a pretty small thing. But then
it was wrapped in a plastic, which was wrapped in another plastic, which was in a box, which was
wrapped in a plastic, which was put in a plastic bag. Sometimes it gets out of hand.
(24:22):
Truly. It's just crazy and scary in a way to see how much plastic we use unnecessarily, which we
just don't have to use. Yeah, and it's the same thing in a lot of ways for the climate crisis.
A lot of things we used to do weren't as polluting from a climate standpoint as they are now.
(24:47):
So just a... Well, anyway, we can move on. Awesome. I feel like I get off topic very easily.
No, no, no, no worries. No worries on that. So we talked about all of these things.
Let's focus on probably one of the most important things about the
(25:13):
involvement of the people in these organizations. And how would you say your experience was this of
involving people in the organization? Of course, there's the main staff, there's the main
working team behind the organizations, but most of the organizations and the environmental ones
(25:35):
heavily rely on volunteers and the people who want to make a change. And some of the organizations,
even all of the people are volunteers. And how would you say should be your experience was in
(25:56):
that field? Do you mean like as a volunteer or working with volunteers? As trying to involve
volunteers in the organizations and what kind of opportunities should the organizations try to
provide for the volunteers and what it should look like. So a lot of the work that I've done
(26:18):
over the years at Clean Air Council has been working directly with people who are volunteers.
Who are in the affected communities from something. And I guess there's two types, right?
There are volunteers who are divided into more than two types, but there's volunteers who are
(26:39):
people who are directly affected, who are standing up and saying, I'm going to defend my rights.
And there's people who are saying, I'm going to work with people who are going to defend their
rights. Or I'm going to find an issue where we can make a difference and do that. So in the
first case, working with affected communities, honestly, it's been one of the most rewarding
(27:04):
things in my lifetime, has been working with people who are standing up for their families,
standing up for their communities. And this type of collaboration kind of comes naturally in a lot
of the work if we have people on the ground we're working with. So at Clean Air Council, we have
(27:26):
community organizers and our community organizers are working in the fields with people. Oftentimes
they live in the communities that we're working with. And so I've been, for most of my time at
Clean Air Council, I have been one of the lawyers there. And my job as a lawyer has not been to just
(27:50):
be in court and write briefs. It's been to work with residents to figure out together how we can
achieve the goals that they want to achieve. And for folks who are not necessarily fighting a
project in a community or something like that, we're always looking for opportunities to
(28:15):
coordinate because we think that there are a ton of good ways to plug in to issues. If we're in
Philly, as we are right now, a lot of Philly specific issues going on. I was at a meeting
last week. I was testifying in front of the Public Utility Commission at a hearing on
(28:39):
what electricity PICO would use for its default service for the service people. If you're a PICO
customer, that's sort of the default electricity program that you get. And PICO has been proposing
a very, very small amount of renewables to be part of that. And we think that there should be more
(28:59):
than a very small amount of renewables as the electricity that's coming into our homes. Very
straightforward. And a ton of people showed up to the hearing. And it was amazing. It was a packed
room. And that really makes a difference. And there are a lot of people who testified. So
I think making sure that we can loop volunteers in to some of these efforts that are already going on
(29:25):
all throughout the city, that's a great way to work with people. Definitely. And yeah, it's a great
effort from all of the volunteers that are trying to be putting aside their work and their studies
and everything, trying to volunteer for good, helping the organizations, helping the cause.
(29:47):
Especially if it's something happening in your community. So if you will have to defend your
community, your friends, your family, your town. So it's a great work from all of the volunteers.
So we are coming to the end of our show. Before we wrap up, I would also want to thank
(30:10):
you for your time. I would also want you to give us space to maybe share anything that you would
like to or any upcoming events from the organization or anything that you would like our listeners to
know about it. Feel free to say. Yeah. Thank you, Gorg. Yeah. I think,
I guess I just want to want to share that we really do, we are in, I think we all, especially
(30:38):
understand that we're in a critical stage of world history right now. We're in the middle of the sixth
extinction event in world history, the sixth grand extinction event in world history.
And we are also not all of us equally, but we are also in a position to make a difference about that.
(30:59):
You know, so now like the 2020s we're in is one of those pivotal moments where we can,
you know, change course, you know, get the ship or, you know, I guess get the
vehicle not heading towards the cliff quite so aggressively. You know what I mean?
(31:22):
So I think it's a really important time for everybody to get involved, for everybody to
volunteer. And frankly, devote your careers, devote your time to it. We need more people
in this work. It's not easy work, but it's super rewarding work. And I really think we, you know,
we're in a position to make the world a lot better than it would be otherwise going forward.
(31:47):
And so, you know, a lot of people, there's a lot of like, I'd say, doomerism out there feeling like,
well, we're all we're all going to die. So who cares? I mean, that's exactly what the industry
wants us to think, right? We're all going to die. So who cares? You know, because then we won't do
anything. They know that we can win. We can make a difference. We can make our lives better. So
(32:12):
I'm very optimistic, because I see every day that we're making our lives better together. So,
yeah, so I just want to encourage everybody to get involved. That's all.
Awesome. Yeah, I incredibly agree. And I mean, now there are tons of opportunities where
people can get involved in doing volunteering or pursuing their career in this field or
(32:37):
doing anything. I mean, it can be just looking at the tax of the, I don't know, shirts and buying
from more sustainable companies or picking up a piece of trash from the street or going to
listening. It can be it can be through everything. And there are tons of opportunities. And if you
want to get involved, sometimes all it takes is just going to Google and writing, I don't know,
(33:03):
opportunities in Philadelphia to get involved in the environmental field, or anywhere in the world.
And I also being in this field for quite a while, as a young person, I would say there are tons of
young groups, there are tons of clubs everywhere. And I would encourage everybody to try to get
(33:24):
involved in their groups and try to make a change, try to get connected. And it doesn't it doesn't
have to be a full time or a part time job for you. It can be just one or two hours dedication per
week. And it can it can make a great difference. Absolutely. And thank you so much for your words
to it's been a pleasure to have you on this show. It's really been great being here. Thank you.
(33:49):
Awesome. Thank you. And to all our listeners out there, thank you for tuning to another episode of
Talking Environment. And remember that the journey to a healthier planet begins with each and every
one of us. And you too can make a huge difference in this world. And until next time, stay informed,
(34:12):
stay inspired, and keep advocating for a greener and future for a greener future. Take care. Thank
you. Thank you. Great. That was great. That was really good. Awesome. So yeah. Yeah.
How did it look on your end? Okay, good.
Welcome everyone to another episode of Talking Environment.
(00:03):
I'm your host, Gevorg Ghazaryan, and I'm thrilled to have all of you today.
Today's episode promises to be enlightening as we dive into the world of
clean air at VOXY with a very special guest.
But before we begin, let's take a moment to appreciate the importance of clean air,
as it isn't just about breathing easy.
(00:24):
And it's about ensuring the health and the well-being of our communities,
protecting the environment and fighting climate change.
And it's a fundamental right that we must strive to keep for current and future generations.
So joining us today is Alex Pomstein, who is the executive director of the Clean Air Council
(00:49):
that is based in Philadelphia.
So Alex, it's a pleasure to have you on the show.
It's a delight to be on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
Of course. So to start with, I guess, could you please just give us a brief overview of
what you do or about the Clean Air Council?
Yeah, of course. So Clean Air Council has been around since 1967.
(01:12):
So it's a very old organization at this point.
It was started by the Lung Associations back when there were regional lung associations.
And we have worked for the last, you know, getting close to 60 years now
to protect everybody's right to a healthy environment throughout not only the Philadelphia region,
but throughout the mid-Atlantic.
(01:34):
So we mostly work in Pennsylvania, but we do some work in neighboring states as well.
And we're really kind of a one-stop shop for environmental advocacy, education, litigation,
policy, all those sorts of things.
Awesome. That's great.
It's nice to hear that.
And could you please also give us a more specific overview of the initiatives that you do or maybe
(02:01):
some of the events that you have done?
Absolutely.
The digital automation?
Yeah. So a lot of our work lately has been focused on the energy economy in Pennsylvania
and the fossil fuel industry in Pennsylvania.
In the mid-2000s, there was the beginning of a boom in fracking in Pennsylvania.
And that completely changed the landscape of environmental protection here.
(02:25):
In the last 20 years, you've had this enormous growth in dirty infrastructure in Pennsylvania.
So a lot of our work has been to fight back that dirty infrastructure to protect our communities.
At the same time, we're focused on expanding the new green energy economy,
(02:47):
which is really centered around renewables. So that has been a lot of our work.
But we also have a strong transportation team that focuses on making sure that people have
good, healthy, affordable, and clean commuting and transit opportunities in the Philadelphia area
(03:07):
and a variety of other programs such as the tobacco program.
Awesome. That's great to hear.
And here at UPembe, some of the main things that we also do is also centering around the renewable
energy. And recently, the university got to announce that over 70% or 80% of the whole energy
(03:28):
that is powering, even these microphones and the video cameras and everything, is coming from
renewable energy.
That's fantastic. That's far ahead of a lot of people.
Yeah. So we are excited about that.
And talking about the environmental protection, a couple of days ago was the Earth Day.
Yes.
Many countries, many people around the world and organizations celebrated Earth Day.
(03:53):
And I wanted to know, so you have been involved in this field for a pretty long time.
How do you think people's opinion on how do people celebrate Earth Day has changed?
Do they take it more seriously? Do they take it more seriously?
Do they try to get involved in the events or try to make it meaningful today?
(04:14):
Yeah. So it's a great question. And it makes me think about this statistic, which I'm totally
going to butcher. So the first Earth Day was, I think it was 1970. And at the time, I think it was
something like one in 10 Americans got out to celebrate that first Earth Day. It was a huge
(04:37):
portion of the population. And honestly, even though the environmental issues that we're facing
are very salient and threatening today, we don't see that level of participation from people,
which I think there's a lot of reasons for that. But in some ways, our environment has gotten a lot
(05:00):
cleaner. And in other ways, it's gotten a lot dirtier. And it depends on how you look at it.
So we don't have, due to the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act, which came about around the
same time as that first Earth Day, we don't have rivers that are as easily set on fire as we used
to. And that's a wonderful thing. The air in Philadelphia is cleaner than it used to be due
(05:21):
to the Clean Air Act. Also another wonderful thing. At the same time, we have a much higher
level of climate pollution in the atmosphere. Our oceans are a lot more acidic. We have had very
recently, within the last week or so, the largest coral reef dieback in, I don't know how long, but
(05:41):
quite a long time. So there are a lot of very pressing issues today. And I think it's really
critical to engage people more. I think it's very critical in particular to engage people more
in banding together and joining to bring their people power, their organized people power to
the forefront. Because that's where we're strongest, is when we work together to really fight these
(06:08):
threats that we have. Definitely. And we have also, so Markur, that the organization I'm also
representing, we have also organized with the Earth Day, the organization that done the cleanup on
1970. Oh, nice. We have organized a big cleanup on an event in Armenia too. But
(06:29):
we've involved, I think participated about 600 people, 700 people. That's fantastic.
And, but the main concern I had is, so most of the people get excited about the Earth Day,
going out, doing cleanup and all that stuff. But then the day after the Earth Day, some of the
people will just throw the trash they picked up yesterday. And I think that's a great problem too.
(06:56):
And what do you think about it? Yeah, I agree completely. I think it's really,
it's one of the hardest questions that I've struggled with over the course of my environmental
organizing and activism over the years. In the 90s, I was in high school. And I was part of an
(07:18):
environmental club in my high school. And we didn't have a very good idea of how to make change,
which, you know, we were high schoolers. It was also the 90s. And there was a different,
it was a different time. And people had a different kind of understanding of how to make change in the
environmental world. I'll tell you that in the 2020s, you know, I've come to believe that
(07:42):
what makes the most difference in the world is doing really thoughtful analysis of who are making
the decisions that are harmful to us. How do we get to them through our organizing? How do we
convince them to make change or just become powerful enough that they have to change?
(08:05):
So that's the thing too. We're not always going to get the change we want simply by asking for it.
And I'll give you an example. So the fossil fuel industry does not want to, you know,
shutter their business, right? Understandably. But the fossil fuel industry is the single biggest
threat we face today. The single biggest threat. So, you know, our job is to look at what are the
(08:33):
things they're doing that are harmful to us. For example, a lot of the industry looks now in the
2020s and sees a world that's understanding that the climate crisis we're in is devastating. And
they're going to have to do business differently rather than saying, OK, we'll switch to, you know,
(08:57):
renewable energy, battery storage, things like that. They've switched gears to a different sort
of tactic. Instead, we'll promote plastics because we can turn our product into plastics or we will
promote carbon capture and say that, you know, we'll be able to bring it out of the air.
(09:20):
So, you know, bring the carbon out of the air. So it's OK if we keep burning our fossil fuels
in the meantime. These are things that are very harmful to us. So we need to go to the source
when people are proposing, you know, a new power plant that might, you know, say it's going to use
some carbon capture or promote but is based on fossil fuels or a new petrochemical facility
(09:44):
that is going to make plastic wrappers for, you know, for potato chips or whatever, you know.
How do we organize to stop those proposals? So that's a critical thing, I think, that we need to
do. We can change our behavior and our behavior matters. But I think what matters more is the
(10:05):
behavior of the industries and the politicians and others who really have the power to do us harm in
a very direct way. I see. Yeah, that's a great point as trying to kind of mostly affect the people
who are standing behind the big changes. And talking about that, how do you think, what kind
(10:32):
of challenges the organizations and the representatives of the organizations face in trying to,
let's say, fight these challenges and express our opinions to the organizations that mostly
do this harm? Because it can be through the governmental policies that do not let us to
(10:58):
do much in this field or the financial constraints, the funding constraints that come from the
government, that come from the multiple other sources. So being a person involved in this field
for a long time, how would you say, what are the main barriers we face in this field that do not
(11:19):
let us to have a bigger change? Yeah, that's a very big question.
You can also just list a couple. We can discuss them.
Well, I mean, a lot of it breaks down to the power differential, really. I mean,
I mean, these industries have endless money, essentially. They have endless money. Because
(11:41):
of that, they have the ear of a lot of politicians. They write legislation for politicians to pass
into law. And that's very difficult to go up against. But what we have is numbers. So
the people who aren't making bank off of the fossil fuel industry, but who are breathing in
(12:04):
their pollution, drinking their pollution, living in despoiled areas because of their work,
we are way more numerous. We can outvote them. We can out organize them. And that's what we have
(12:26):
to do. This is how we have to do it. But those barriers are huge. And a lot of times,
there's something that we lose a lot, right? We win a lot. We just had a great win last week.
We've been fighting together with Save Our Susquehanna and some other groups this proposal
(12:48):
for a company that was saying that it would take plastic waste and turn it into sellable chemicals.
And it's kind of a long story, but it's part of a larger industry effort, again, fossil fuel
industry, plastics industry, to make it look like plastics are recyclable and a clean part of the
(13:08):
economy when they're not. Right? So this proposal was for this giant facility, it would have taken
450,000 tons of plastic waste is what it said every year, and turned it through this refinery
type process into a mix of chemicals and hazardous waste and air pollution and water pollution.
(13:31):
Those things. And we were collectively able to defeat it. Right? So we do have wins. But
it's hard to get there. And it's an ongoing battle.
Definitely. It usually takes a long, long time to even fight the changes that the organizations
(13:54):
can make in a day or two. Exactly. Yeah, it's about the power differential, definitely. And
about the plastics, today, this year's Earth Day topic was planet versus plastic, right?
Yes. It also evolves around that. And how would you say the funding looks for the organizations
(14:18):
that try to fight these challenges? I mean, I looked up, I recently looked up the funding sources
of the, let's say, Pennsylvania's government or the state, what it provides. But compared to the
bigger picture, for most of the organizations, it's just really small numbers. And a lot of the
(14:41):
organizations, most of the organizations, I would say, heavily rely on donations from people,
donations from investors or supporters who think this is an issue. For example, one of the
biggest Armenian organizations is called Armenian Treaty Organization. And it's a very important
(15:04):
tree project. They have an office in Washington, DC. And their funding, over 90% come from
individuals and people who try to donate, let's say, $10, $50, which comes to a bigger picture.
And the reality is the governments, they don't support the organizations that much. And
(15:29):
how would you think that is the case with the Clean Air Council? Have you guys,
how do you try to fight these challenges? It's absolutely the case here too. So our budget is
somewhere between three and four million at the moment. Now compare that. So compare that to the
subsidy that Pennsylvania gave the Shell Plastics Plant in Western Pennsylvania, which just came
(15:53):
online not too long ago. The subsidy, the tax subsidy that the state gave them was over a billion
dollars of subsidy. That's how much the state is subsidizing the single use plastics industry in
Pennsylvania. So you have a billion dollars on one hand, you have our budget of a few million on the
(16:15):
other hand. It's a huge disparity. But, you know, it really does. Contributions from individuals are
a big part of our budget. They matter enormously. And frankly, they're a big part of the budget of
most environmental organizations that I'm aware of. We also get funding from foundations that are
(16:37):
supportive and which is wonderful and critical as well. So the resources are very different,
but you can kind of think of it, maybe this is not the best analogy, but you can kind of think of it
as asymmetrical warfare, right? So you have a very strong, well-financed force on the other hand,
(17:01):
on the one hand, on the one side and on the other side, you have a lot of people power, people
who know the terrain, people whose homes it is, right? Who are fighting back. And so...
But not much power and money.
Yeah, with not as much money, not as much support, but they can be very strong, very powerful.
(17:22):
So that's, I think, really what it looks like. And honestly, it is a kind of warfare that we're
dealing with here, because you have these companies, these governments that come into our
communities and they kill us. They kill us through air pollution, they kill us through water pollution,
through taking away our local economies. It's the number of people who die worldwide from air
(17:50):
pollution is astonishing. It's one of the top killers worldwide. And that includes in Pennsylvania.
So it's violence that's being dealt upon us and we're collectively fighting back.
Yeah, definitely. And talking about donations, I would like to also thank all the people who
(18:11):
make the donations to the organizations and keep them alive, let's say, because every single dollar,
even $10, will matter in a big picture, even though we are fighting to get the money back.
We are fighting to get most of the organizations are fighting to get more funding from the
government itself. The main driving force are still the donations in this case. So thank you.
(18:37):
Thank you for that. Yeah, I'll chime in also. Thank you. Super critical. Awesome. And how would
you say, I mean, it's kind of the answer is, I'd say obvious, but how would you rate the role of
(18:58):
the community in fighting these challenges? For example, in our organization, in Makubi,
that's where our mission is based. And we call everyone to get together and make their small
groups in their communities. And even it can be through establishing a university club, or it can
(19:25):
be through joining an organization in your community. Or it can be just going outside,
maybe once in a week, picking a couple of pieces of trash. And you can with with that small actions,
I think people can become a part of the bigger picture. And that definitely doesn't solve all
the big problems, for example, with the fossil fuel organizations. So in that in that big pictures,
(19:49):
how would you say how would you rate the role of the community here? And yeah, how important it is
to be united? I think it's indispensable, indispensable. There's no way you can't do
the work otherwise. So last Saturday, kind of Earth Day weekend, I guess people don't know necessarily, April 20.
(20:15):
April 20, I was in Chester for the Environmental Justice Day Caravan in March that CIRCLE, which is
an environmental justice group in Chester, organized. And CIRCLE, the Chester Residents
Concern for Quality Living, has a number of threats facing their community. One is this giant trash
(20:38):
incinerator that is, I believe, at least by some measure, is the largest in the country. And it's
in Chester. And they have another incinerator from Delcora, I believe it is, in the community as well.
In addition, a liquefied natural gas export terminal has been proposed for their community.
There's a lot of stuff threatening their community. And the community has banded together and done
(21:04):
amazing work together. And you can't do this effort alone. I mean, what would you
even do alone? Together, you can power map to figure out who has power in a particular
situation you're trying to change, right? You can organize the community, knock on doors,
(21:30):
talk to your neighbors. You can fundraise as a community. You can hire lawyers if you need to,
do good communications work, do lobbying efforts, you know, all of these things you can do as a
community. And it's those sort of nitty gritty, nuts and bolts environmental work that make change.
(21:58):
And I think the absolute first step is collecting, you know, collecting with like-minded people and
people who are fighting for a common cause. Awesome. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I mean,
we started our movement. It was a video saying it sounded a bit cheesy at the moment, but
(22:19):
in the capital of Armenia, Yerevan, there are about around 1 million people. And we did some
research, we did some calculations. And it was like, if every single person picked up a couple
of pieces of trash, we would get rid of the little problem, which is a huge problem in
some of the countries. And that is just one simple example of what the collectiveness can do
(22:45):
in fighting these issues. Again, like litter issues might not be the biggest problems now that we can
face. But litter is a problem. And I encourage folks also whenever we talk about litter to
take a look, do what some folks call like a brand survey or a brand audit. Yeah, that's
(23:07):
something that we have done for the cleanup events. And the Earth Day, I think, is
organizing that too for these events during the Earth Day. It was a brand audit, so
figuring out which brands have the most litter in the streets. Exactly. And then you can go to the
(23:29):
and you have some accountability. Because it's one thing we shouldn't litter, and that makes
all of our lives worse when we do. We also shouldn't have plastic wrappers that don't biodegrade in the
environment and collect. When we stored things in paper more often, the paper would break down in
the environment fairly readily. But the plastics industry has made all of our daily lives
(23:57):
so much more polluting than it used to be. It's remarkable. Yeah, about plastics that are being
wrapped. I remember one time I ordered something. It was a pretty small thing. But then
it was wrapped in a plastic, which was wrapped in another plastic, which was in a box, which was
wrapped in a plastic, which was put in a plastic bag. Sometimes it gets out of hand.
(24:22):
Truly. It's just crazy and scary in a way to see how much plastic we use unnecessarily, which we
just don't have to use. Yeah, and it's the same thing in a lot of ways for the climate crisis.
A lot of things we used to do weren't as polluting from a climate standpoint as they are now.
(24:47):
So just a... Well, anyway, we can move on. Awesome. I feel like I get off topic very easily.
No, no, no, no worries. No worries on that. So we talked about all of these things.
Let's focus on probably one of the most important things about the
(25:13):
involvement of the people in these organizations. And how would you say your experience was this of
involving people in the organization? Of course, there's the main staff, there's the main
working team behind the organizations, but most of the organizations and the environmental ones
(25:35):
heavily rely on volunteers and the people who want to make a change. And some of the organizations,
even all of the people are volunteers. And how would you say should be your experience was in
(25:56):
that field? Do you mean like as a volunteer or working with volunteers? As trying to involve
volunteers in the organizations and what kind of opportunities should the organizations try to
provide for the volunteers and what it should look like. So a lot of the work that I've done
(26:18):
over the years at Clean Air Council has been working directly with people who are volunteers.
Who are in the affected communities from something. And I guess there's two types, right?
There are volunteers who are divided into more than two types, but there's volunteers who are
(26:39):
people who are directly affected, who are standing up and saying, I'm going to defend my rights.
And there's people who are saying, I'm going to work with people who are going to defend their
rights. Or I'm going to find an issue where we can make a difference and do that. So in the
first case, working with affected communities, honestly, it's been one of the most rewarding
(27:04):
things in my lifetime, has been working with people who are standing up for their families,
standing up for their communities. And this type of collaboration kind of comes naturally in a lot
of the work if we have people on the ground we're working with. So at Clean Air Council, we have
(27:26):
community organizers and our community organizers are working in the fields with people. Oftentimes
they live in the communities that we're working with. And so I've been, for most of my time at
Clean Air Council, I have been one of the lawyers there. And my job as a lawyer has not been to just
(27:50):
be in court and write briefs. It's been to work with residents to figure out together how we can
achieve the goals that they want to achieve. And for folks who are not necessarily fighting a
project in a community or something like that, we're always looking for opportunities to
(28:15):
coordinate because we think that there are a ton of good ways to plug in to issues. If we're in
Philly, as we are right now, a lot of Philly specific issues going on. I was at a meeting
last week. I was testifying in front of the Public Utility Commission at a hearing on
(28:39):
what electricity PICO would use for its default service for the service people. If you're a PICO
customer, that's sort of the default electricity program that you get. And PICO has been proposing
a very, very small amount of renewables to be part of that. And we think that there should be more
(28:59):
than a very small amount of renewables as the electricity that's coming into our homes. Very
straightforward. And a ton of people showed up to the hearing. And it was amazing. It was a packed
room. And that really makes a difference. And there are a lot of people who testified. So
I think making sure that we can loop volunteers in to some of these efforts that are already going on
(29:25):
all throughout the city, that's a great way to work with people. Definitely. And yeah, it's a great
effort from all of the volunteers that are trying to be putting aside their work and their studies
and everything, trying to volunteer for good, helping the organizations, helping the cause.
(29:47):
Especially if it's something happening in your community. So if you will have to defend your
community, your friends, your family, your town. So it's a great work from all of the volunteers.
So we are coming to the end of our show. Before we wrap up, I would also want to thank
(30:10):
you for your time. I would also want you to give us space to maybe share anything that you would
like to or any upcoming events from the organization or anything that you would like our listeners to
know about it. Feel free to say. Yeah. Thank you, Gorg. Yeah. I think,
I guess I just want to want to share that we really do, we are in, I think we all, especially
(30:38):
understand that we're in a critical stage of world history right now. We're in the middle of the sixth
extinction event in world history, the sixth grand extinction event in world history.
And we are also not all of us equally, but we are also in a position to make a difference about that.
(30:59):
You know, so now like the 2020s we're in is one of those pivotal moments where we can,
you know, change course, you know, get the ship or, you know, I guess get the
vehicle not heading towards the cliff quite so aggressively. You know what I mean?
(31:22):
So I think it's a really important time for everybody to get involved, for everybody to
volunteer. And frankly, devote your careers, devote your time to it. We need more people
in this work. It's not easy work, but it's super rewarding work. And I really think we, you know,
we're in a position to make the world a lot better than it would be otherwise going forward.
(31:47):
And so, you know, a lot of people, there's a lot of like, I'd say, doomerism out there feeling like,
well, we're all we're all going to die. So who cares? I mean, that's exactly what the industry
wants us to think, right? We're all going to die. So who cares? You know, because then we won't do
anything. They know that we can win. We can make a difference. We can make our lives better. So
(32:12):
I'm very optimistic, because I see every day that we're making our lives better together. So,
yeah, so I just want to encourage everybody to get involved. That's all.
Awesome. Yeah, I incredibly agree. And I mean, now there are tons of opportunities where
people can get involved in doing volunteering or pursuing their career in this field or
(32:37):
doing anything. I mean, it can be just looking at the tax of the, I don't know, shirts and buying
from more sustainable companies or picking up a piece of trash from the street or going to
listening. It can be it can be through everything. And there are tons of opportunities. And if you
want to get involved, sometimes all it takes is just going to Google and writing, I don't know,
(33:03):
opportunities in Philadelphia to get involved in the environmental field, or anywhere in the world.
And I also being in this field for quite a while, as a young person, I would say there are tons of
young groups, there are tons of clubs everywhere. And I would encourage everybody to try to get
(33:24):
involved in their groups and try to make a change, try to get connected. And it doesn't it doesn't
have to be a full time or a part time job for you. It can be just one or two hours dedication per
week. And it can it can make a great difference. Absolutely. And thank you so much for your words
to it's been a pleasure to have you on this show. It's really been great being here. Thank you.
(33:49):
Awesome. Thank you. And to all our listeners out there, thank you for tuning to another episode of
Talking Environment. And remember that the journey to a healthier planet begins with each and every
one of us. And you too can make a huge difference in this world. And until next time, stay informed,
(34:12):
stay inspired, and keep advocating for a greener and future for a greener future. Take care. Thank
you. Thank you. Great. That was great. That was really good. Awesome. So yeah. Yeah.
How did it look on your end? Okay, good.
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