February 15, 2025 • 36 mins
In this episode of Talking Environment, host Gevorg Ghazaryan sits down with Angela Pachon, the Research Director at the Kleinman Center for Energy Policy, to explore the role of climate policies, energy regulation, and policy implementation challenges in shaping environmental sustainability.
Angela Pachon brings extensive experience in electricity markets, gas policies, and climate policies, having worked as a policy advisor and economic consultant across North America, Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. She shares insights into how research institutions influence climate initiatives, the effectiveness of energy policies, and the barriers to implementing meaningful environmental regulations.
Tune in to Talking Environment to gain a deeper understanding of how policy decisions impact climate action and what strategies can drive effective environmental governance.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Talking Environment.
(00:03):
I'm your host, Gevorg Ghazaryan, and today we have a pleasure of speaking with Angela
Pachon, the research director at the Climate Center for Energy Policy and an accomplished
researcher and policy advisor with a rich experience in energy and climate issues.
So Angela's insights into energy policy and their expertise in studying electricity markets
(00:24):
and climate policies make her an invaluable guest for our discussion today.
So welcome to our podcast, Angela.
Thank you, Geworg.
Thank you for the invitation.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Awesome.
Great.
So looking at your background, you have been, you have mostly been involved in the electricity
markets, gas policies, energy policies, climate policies.
(00:47):
So what brought you to this?
I would just, if you could just like give us an introduction of your work or how did
you come to this?
Okay, sure.
I am an economist.
I come from Colombia.
Awesome.
But I did my graduate studies in the UK.
So after doing my master's and while I work in Colombia, I was very focused on the development
(01:16):
issues and water issues.
I had the opportunity to work on more water regulation.
And when I moved and then later work in the UK, I was attracted by the electricity sector.
At that time, the focus was really on restructuring electricity markets rather than to clean up
(01:43):
this grid like we have now this priority.
So that was very interesting and that also allowed me to do very international work in
Africa and the Middle East in addition to Europe.
So as a consultant.
(02:03):
And so with that experience, I then because of my husband appointments, who is an academic,
we moved to Canada and then to the US.
So I've been having the chance to work as a consultant, as a regulator, with a regulator
(02:24):
and now more on the research side in academia.
Awesome.
And you've also worked in Ontario, right?
And in London.
Yeah.
I work in Canada, after London, we moved to Canada in Toronto and I work for the Ontario
(02:44):
Energy Board, which is the regulator for energy and gas utilities in Ontario.
That's great.
And so if you also like could give us like a brief introduction of what do you do now
at Penn?
So at Penn now I'm the research director and I've been so privileged to been working
(03:08):
in the centre since the centre started almost 10 years ago.
And it's been an amazing process of seeing how I mean, we were really building from scratch
all programs, but also thinking, having a lot of thought on how best we can bring this
(03:35):
mission that we have to really inform this energy transition through academic research
and how to make this academic research impactful and that policymakers can make very informed
decisions.
At the same time, educating the future leaders and having them, I mean, with enough knowledge.
(04:07):
And obviously, what we want is that these leaders tomorrow have this influence and are
aware that obviously informed decisions are necessary, especially these days.
Awesome.
That's great.
So you have you have had an experience in working in different like energy groups, energy
(04:33):
centres, environmental.
How would you say, let's say the claimant centre for energy policy or the Ontario Energy
Board, how do this, how would you say these groups initiatives actually affect the energy
policies or like?
Yeah, obviously, it's it's it's it's in working with a regulator like in Ontario, you are
(04:59):
first hand setting policies because you have the possibility to tell the main like either
utilities or or or gas producers what how much they should do to reduce emissions or
being more environmentally friendly.
(05:21):
While being in academia, it's you do you want to influence these decisions because you are
not making them.
But the purpose is really to influence and being impactful with this research and and
be aware of what are the research needs for these policymakers to to to make the best
(05:44):
of these decisions.
See, that's great.
That's awesome.
So, I mean, it's really interesting and also the work that you guys do is really inspiring,
also providing all the resources for the students to to give them opportunities to maybe influence
the policy themselves, too.
(06:05):
So could you maybe like tell us more what kind of policies, maybe climate policies or
energy policies that you worked on or you continue to work on or how do they impact us?
Yeah, well I personally am doing research on carbon policies for carbon capture and storage
(06:31):
and the purpose is really the Inflation Reduction Act which was approved almost two years ago but
um no one and a half years ago by the Biden administration which is a major piece of
legislation for climate action gave a lot of subsidies for carbon capture and one of the
(06:55):
of what we found is that I mean this is an amazing technology that can get us
in terms of climate targets where we should be but at the same time could allow the continue
burning of fossil fuels so the way that these subsidies are structured we are reviewing that
(07:19):
because we want to propose solutions some changes right now so that they are really focused for those
industries where it's very difficult to decarbonize rather the industry that like for example the
electricity sector operating on carbon capture and storage it could be helpful but what you want to
(07:45):
prevent is that power plants like fossil fuel power plants with carbon capture and storage
compete with renewables because renewables these are days these days are way cheaper and therefore
the the jurisdictions where the the amount of renewables is still low you need to build this
(08:07):
renewable capacity and to do that you can you cannot have renewables competing just because
with carbon capture and storage fitted power plants so that's that's one piece of legislation
that we we would like to to influence and I also have work for for more Pennsylvania focus on
(08:33):
on how Pennsylvania should perhaps join them then have the should join the the carbon market for
power plants there is a carbon market that for the northeast region where power plants
are in some way taxed for the emissions not Pennsylvania is not part of that market so we
(08:57):
did a study so to be able to recommend to the governor like why there's any need for to doing
it and the benefits that that could bring so these are like two examples but at the center
since we convened the research that happens from faculties and students we're able to
(09:22):
to to to put this a brief that have informed other policies like we very recently a piece of
legislation a regulation that was adopted by the EPA they they take took into consideration one
of the reports of the center yeah that's what we want because it's that's the way
(09:48):
translating academic research into real practical policy problems that's great and would you say
would you say from the so like policy wise you work mainly with the government and the policymaker
would you say there's let's say enough support towards the academia and funding the research to
(10:11):
maybe have a better policymaking practices well i mean lately we yes i mean there there are a lot of
opportunities because there is an interest from the federal government for for these policies to
succeed so i i would say that there are any opportunities especially for example on the
(10:36):
evaluation of programs so to to do that and obviously by academics it's is is a great
opportunity at the same time during trump years yeah we saw there was nothing i mean there was a
total disconnection between the academia and policymakers because there was no single interest
(11:01):
that's not the case with this federal with the vietnam administration where many academics have
been part of the administration and and and that i think provides a lot of more rigor in the in the
decision making awesome and yeah i think and the whole support from the government can greatly
(11:28):
greatly influence like the work and the results that we can get from the research and the work
that you do absolutely yeah yes and would you say would you say the students research and the
students involvement also plays a great role in like making affecting the policies or yeah it's
a i mean we we have uh uh students obviously the the sort of research and the analysis from phd
(11:58):
students is being also valuable for informing uh electricity markets also and and we have a couple
of examples of of research don't buy students and at the phd level another one was an undergrad he's
(12:19):
he's now doing his phd and and who were trying to influence how the market the market electricity
market oh wow nice that's great yeah and um so i mean we are mainly talking about the energy
policies and uh how they are affecting the market and how we can have uh impact on it how the
(12:45):
students can have an impact on how the research can have impact on it uh would you say would you
say it is one field that like all the universities or the academia should consider like putting
a lot of effort into or the universities also other universities also consider maybe having
(13:05):
center centers like the climate center and encouraging the students and the faculty to
work on the policy and maybe uh influence it in some way yeah i think i think there is there is
a case for for for having i mean for academia influencing policy and centers like the climate
(13:26):
center does that and the role for students i think it's when we're talking about the energy
transition through research influencing policy but also i mean we see a lot here at then and and in
other universities is um in terms of technology producing and and uh technology that can get to
(13:56):
these solutions that we need for decarbonization and uh i've seen over these 10 years also from
from uh i mean from the school of engineering and programs like the viper program which is very
specific on energy research that an interest from students that interesting they come to i mean these
(14:21):
are technology students but they come to us because they i mean once if your innovation you can have
a fantastic idea but if you don't have the funds to develop and so it's sometimes it's difficult
so they are very attracted to study the policy side and to understand how does it work like i
(14:42):
mean can can these have subsidies and how to access those or so there are also an interest on from
from the technology side for innovators and and to to have startups and we've seen i think
over the years at least three or three startups that i mean are are are right now company from
(15:07):
student from 10 that are working on these areas oh and they are like in the energy field startups
or and like the work and the research they have developed in the center have helped them to do
they yeah they they they work with us for the research in some in some part especially when
they are interested in a specific area they look at that but they then they they become yeah
(15:32):
uh that that's great they have companies operating so which is that this sort of ingenuity is i think
it's make makes a university very attractive and and having a role to play in the energy transition
awesome that's great that's that's that's really interesting to hear how it can also have maybe
(15:53):
impact like students or the faculties on like goals and like what they're working on absolutely
yeah so it's really it's really awesome and how what would you say what are the main resources that
the center provides for the students or the faculty that want to get involved
(16:14):
well we uh for the students we and faculty we provide grants for the students as these grants
are are more flexible because they can use it for traveling we have students that were interested on
how offshore technology why is it so well established in northern europe and not here so
(16:44):
and the student went and had a trip to to europe interview companies and produce
a brief for us the policy that just where we experiment the findings of his research and
obviously now he's he he works for an offshore wind company and he was a a lobbyist for the offshore
(17:08):
wind in the u.s so that's that's sort of support that we provide i mean if you have an idea it's
uh it's um either to a trip if you want to attend the conference if you if um
obviously research is also part of that or if you and campus you have a club you want to bring
(17:32):
the speaker and we we support this awesome all this sort of activity for faculty is more limited
to um i mean we have grants and and and for faculty and phd students that these are research grants
every year we issue a call for grants and um that is becoming very popular we have many applicants
(17:58):
and um and we issue these grants the variety of topics is a impressive uh and it's very
satisfactory to see like 10 years ago when we started that we were thinking okay we're starting
there are just around five researchers three researchers thinking on energy policy issues
(18:23):
uh right now i mean in the last call we have so many applications and people uh bringing
uh the what the the issues of the energy transition of climate change change in within the research
areas it's it's there it's fantastic to see that's great that's that's really awesome to see how
(18:45):
the center also provides all of these opportunities and resources for the students also to get involved
in them and um so how would you uh i mean the climate research and everything are pretty urgent
uh in this case and um all the problems and all the issues that there are now i mean the climate
(19:06):
change and the efforts that we are putting into solving some parts that are affecting it and um
talking about the policy how like uh what how would you describe like what what is it it does
it play a big role in uh solving these issues or um what kind of impact it can have on actually
(19:30):
solving the issues or how in other words maybe how urgent is it considering all the problems around
it well i mean it's it's it's very urgent yeah the climate change is so real and it's it's uh i mean
i mean all uh scientists on the world have an agreement and have i mean it's uh of how urgent
(19:57):
this is and we are all starting to to feeling it and that and uh it's um the fact that
before we were talking before about just reducing emissions to try to solve the problem
um today is not just about um reducing emission it's about also about adaptation because these
(20:23):
extreme weather events are happening and therefore in terms of policy it's there is a big challenge
because the resources are not unlimited and and if producing for example cleaner energy and
(20:49):
producing in a more sustainable way the technology some technologies will allow it and
and it will be uh affordable but for some other countries it's not and uh and i think that's that's
one of the despite the urgency the affordability is is very important and and that's something that
(21:12):
i mean you can you cannot uh there is a role for for the developed countries to to support this
transition and um the fact that we have also started to do adaptation and and and adaptation
i mean emissions and and the global warming is so global but the problems of adaptation are so local
(21:40):
and um it's um that that's also a very big challenge or how how i mean localities
municipalities start to spend and invest on on this adaptation because i mean it's not
this extreme weather maybe more frequent and and more damaging every time i see yeah and like um
(22:08):
on the on the local level on the regional levels and would you say it it is like uh pretty effective
also to implement some policies on the local level let's say in the city in the state in the country
internationally so like uh i mean of course like uh the regional or the national uh policies are
(22:28):
going to have a bit more of a effect they are going to affect more everything that is happening
but would you say that the local policies um or from the state policies or the regional policies
also do have a big effect on this i think so and uh but uh obviously the policies depends on on on
(22:51):
the policy maker and one of the big problems of implementing policy is uh the fact that some some
of these policymakers are really working for the lobby groups yeah and um there is a good research
(23:12):
by she's a faculty at the university of california santa barbara leah stokes she has a book about it
on how they love for example at the federal level the the lobbies of the oil and gas industry
uh really rule the agenda the legislative agenda for some uh for some legislate
(23:37):
in the legislation and therefore you have you may have some congress people the people at the
congress that may vote but these companies won't because they have a lot of influence yeah and so
at the local level i mean it's hearing talking about the state level here in pennsylvania there
(23:59):
has been also evidence that the the lobby of coal companies miners have a lot of influence in
pennsylvania politics because they subsidize campaigns so while you have this campaign
subsidizing in the way that the lobbies get a lot of power it's very difficult to implement policies
(24:26):
that will benefit the whole society and not just some companies so that has to change and the only
way to change is really by voting and i would say like it's uh for young people voting should
become should be very important and and choosing who for who you are voting for because that could
(24:51):
make a big difference and um so yeah also implementing policies uh and especially like
climate policies becoming also problematic the nimbus people who don't want anything
(25:14):
in my backyard like so building new transmission lines that are required because you have uh
renewable solar farms or wind farms that because they are new they require this extension
it becomes problematic to bring this because people oppose people don't want to see the cables
(25:39):
people don't want to see the turbines in the sea and then the opposition is becoming getting
to a level of really delaying and and and that delay is a problem because as we talked before
there is an urgency so this nimbus and how to to expedite this is is a big challenge and uh
(26:06):
uh it's um a question of of bringing together and perhaps reaching consensus of course yeah but
it's uh i personally think that reaching consensus is becoming so difficult in so many areas that you
see more and more polarized opinions yeah so that's that's a big challenge and and uh i hope for
(26:32):
the new generations that they see how uh detrimental is this polarization that in the future
that is that could change yeah and i i think like uh even the differences you may be some views they
they should be kind of all of us should be connected to this one big issue which is which
(26:54):
is really urgent as you said that it is it can be catastrophic in uh in 10 years or 20 years or
30 years yeah and or is right now for some some places in the world that have the risk of disappearing
like small island for example so yeah i that's that's something that i mean the reaching consensus
(27:16):
it's it's i think it's going to be key but at the same time i would like to wait here i think you
are positive because you see young young people students who are very committed to this transition
but i have the chance to go to the cop negotiations that the and and it was it was very
(27:44):
difficult it cannot reach consensus this country they all producers want to continue to produce
without no one wants to give up so that lack of consensus is something that for the future should
change in some way and perhaps this is a generational thing and i hope it's going to change yeah and
(28:04):
like um for the young people as you said uh like trying to affect these policies somehow would you
say let's say besides the research and like helping the academia maybe some people want to help
but not specifically by doing research well what would you say there are some ways that people can
(28:25):
affect this or yeah like voting is is one big thing making changes on your daily life like i mean
it's uh do you do if you have the choice to take transit like transit uh and uh but i think the
(28:47):
the most important thing is is to perhaps for people especially interested on on the environment
to to support them i mean if you if you believe that uh i mean your ideas are valuable and make them
(29:10):
uh here like participating in in policy and i know it's um it's hard because the polarization but at
the same time is it's uh it's important to have these young voices coming to those debates because
those debates unfortunately i mean if you see the age of the legislators it's gonna not they're not
(29:35):
gonna think of the future generations yeah and it's it would be very different if you have i
mean these these young voices coming and they're getting interested in in in politics yeah and
what would you say about the let's say uh so um i don't know if it is the same in cancel vina or
(29:56):
in other states so like uh for example leaving some kind of comments on the policies of the
living some kind of comments on the policies online or contributing to it in some way or going
to the hearings of policy making so decisions to policy making would you say that is also one way
to contribute yeah that's that's that's that's if you're passionate about a topic and and and
(30:22):
follow up following this topic and uh providing comments when regulatory agencies that's that's
an option but also i think and and i see my kids so involved in social media combating
disinformation because this information really affects the public opinion definitely and and if
(30:51):
i mean young people are are so into social media and i think if many people get an agreement of
like let's try to combat this information i mean that this is not true and express your opinions
about but obviously with strong valid arguments i think that there is also an opportunity to change
(31:15):
this this this course that in many places it's uh to see like okay renewable oh where if we install
more solar or wind farms it's gonna be so expensive it's gonna be so um and we're gonna have a blackout
(31:36):
because it's so unreliable that's not true i mean and uh and i think there is a discourse that i
think for for especially young people it's it's really to combat this this information and i also
wanted to leave like uh to say that even when commenting or going to hearings or even expressing
(31:59):
your opinion we don't have to know like everything that is in that policy and it can just be about
like a small thing that we just want to express about our opinion on and i think that's really
important to to know that like even let's say i'm not an expert in uh electricity markets but i know
that it is going to affect me somehow so it is also important to kind of just have your opinion
(32:23):
on it or just leave your opinion on it that is going to affect you and even though let's say i'm
not an expert but it is yeah and and and that's for certain like i mean express your opinion and
contact your representatives when you think like i mean this is going to be the way and i i i think
(32:43):
that's they shouldn't be doing that so contact them and i i think that there is there is a role
for that awesome so we are we are coming uh we are coming to the end of our uh podcast i just wanted
to maybe give you a space to share um or conclude your ideas or maybe leave some call to action for
(33:08):
the people who are listening to this uh yeah well i think other ideas is is um and and thinking
about young people that i mean you are now at the university you are going to be soon in the job
market and um some when when i we could see it like this energy transition to get so that people
(33:32):
really buying is jobs and and and i think there's a big opportunity for this generation
to work on these sectors and to to go for example the utilities this is uh they are being so
(33:52):
criticized because these are like monopolies you don't have i mean you can have a different
supplier but the the the asset the the cables is just one company and you cannot choose a different
one so and this is a business that is becoming i mean uh has to change and it's kind of reluctant
(34:17):
to change because the mentality is that i mean they get all the because they are regulated they
get all the revenues that they request in some way but i think there is this generation should
should look at these sectors which are not as sexy as working in i don't know technology but
(34:45):
where there's so much need of talent and new ideas and more progressive thinking and um it's a
a job scene in clean energy are expanding and um we're gonna see in the next year like i mean
they are bringing like even the the mining of of rare metals here to the to the us and the
(35:14):
transformation we need to make sure that this is be done it's going to be done in a sustainable way
so i'll just invite of of of your listeners to to think about like the sort of jobs in this sector
because it's um the i mean young talent is needed and new ideas awesome thank you so much and i
(35:41):
and i wanted to add that uh even even if people will not consider let's say jobs in this market
it is it is really important to maybe kind of take notes of how you can contribute to this
with just your daily actions or with just just like leaving comments or doing some kind of
actually even with voting so uh it's it's really important to just leave some kind of let's say
(36:06):
effort into this because this is something that is gonna affect us big in the future
so yeah so thank you so much again for no you're welcome thank you for the invitation
awesome and thank you a lot for listening to talking environment and make sure to
to join us next time for another episode and yeah have a great day and take care until next time.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Talking Environment.
(00:03):
I'm your host, Gevorg Ghazaryan, and today we have a pleasure of speaking with Angela
Pachon, the research director at the Climate Center for Energy Policy and an accomplished
researcher and policy advisor with a rich experience in energy and climate issues.
So Angela's insights into energy policy and their expertise in studying electricity markets
(00:24):
and climate policies make her an invaluable guest for our discussion today.
So welcome to our podcast, Angela.
Thank you, Geworg.
Thank you for the invitation.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Awesome.
Great.
So looking at your background, you have been, you have mostly been involved in the electricity
markets, gas policies, energy policies, climate policies.
(00:47):
So what brought you to this?
I would just, if you could just like give us an introduction of your work or how did
you come to this?
Okay, sure.
I am an economist.
I come from Colombia.
Awesome.
But I did my graduate studies in the UK.
So after doing my master's and while I work in Colombia, I was very focused on the development
(01:16):
issues and water issues.
I had the opportunity to work on more water regulation.
And when I moved and then later work in the UK, I was attracted by the electricity sector.
At that time, the focus was really on restructuring electricity markets rather than to clean up
(01:43):
this grid like we have now this priority.
So that was very interesting and that also allowed me to do very international work in
Africa and the Middle East in addition to Europe.
So as a consultant.
(02:03):
And so with that experience, I then because of my husband appointments, who is an academic,
we moved to Canada and then to the US.
So I've been having the chance to work as a consultant, as a regulator, with a regulator
(02:24):
and now more on the research side in academia.
Awesome.
And you've also worked in Ontario, right?
And in London.
Yeah.
I work in Canada, after London, we moved to Canada in Toronto and I work for the Ontario
(02:44):
Energy Board, which is the regulator for energy and gas utilities in Ontario.
That's great.
And so if you also like could give us like a brief introduction of what do you do now
at Penn?
So at Penn now I'm the research director and I've been so privileged to been working
(03:08):
in the centre since the centre started almost 10 years ago.
And it's been an amazing process of seeing how I mean, we were really building from scratch
all programs, but also thinking, having a lot of thought on how best we can bring this
(03:35):
mission that we have to really inform this energy transition through academic research
and how to make this academic research impactful and that policymakers can make very informed
decisions.
At the same time, educating the future leaders and having them, I mean, with enough knowledge.
(04:07):
And obviously, what we want is that these leaders tomorrow have this influence and are
aware that obviously informed decisions are necessary, especially these days.
Awesome.
That's great.
So you have you have had an experience in working in different like energy groups, energy
(04:33):
centres, environmental.
How would you say, let's say the claimant centre for energy policy or the Ontario Energy
Board, how do this, how would you say these groups initiatives actually affect the energy
policies or like?
Yeah, obviously, it's it's it's it's in working with a regulator like in Ontario, you are
(04:59):
first hand setting policies because you have the possibility to tell the main like either
utilities or or or gas producers what how much they should do to reduce emissions or
being more environmentally friendly.
(05:21):
While being in academia, it's you do you want to influence these decisions because you are
not making them.
But the purpose is really to influence and being impactful with this research and and
be aware of what are the research needs for these policymakers to to to make the best
(05:44):
of these decisions.
See, that's great.
That's awesome.
So, I mean, it's really interesting and also the work that you guys do is really inspiring,
also providing all the resources for the students to to give them opportunities to maybe influence
the policy themselves, too.
(06:05):
So could you maybe like tell us more what kind of policies, maybe climate policies or
energy policies that you worked on or you continue to work on or how do they impact us?
Yeah, well I personally am doing research on carbon policies for carbon capture and storage
(06:31):
and the purpose is really the Inflation Reduction Act which was approved almost two years ago but
um no one and a half years ago by the Biden administration which is a major piece of
legislation for climate action gave a lot of subsidies for carbon capture and one of the
(06:55):
of what we found is that I mean this is an amazing technology that can get us
in terms of climate targets where we should be but at the same time could allow the continue
burning of fossil fuels so the way that these subsidies are structured we are reviewing that
(07:19):
because we want to propose solutions some changes right now so that they are really focused for those
industries where it's very difficult to decarbonize rather the industry that like for example the
electricity sector operating on carbon capture and storage it could be helpful but what you want to
(07:45):
prevent is that power plants like fossil fuel power plants with carbon capture and storage
compete with renewables because renewables these are days these days are way cheaper and therefore
the the jurisdictions where the the amount of renewables is still low you need to build this
(08:07):
renewable capacity and to do that you can you cannot have renewables competing just because
with carbon capture and storage fitted power plants so that's that's one piece of legislation
that we we would like to to influence and I also have work for for more Pennsylvania focus on
(08:33):
on how Pennsylvania should perhaps join them then have the should join the the carbon market for
power plants there is a carbon market that for the northeast region where power plants
are in some way taxed for the emissions not Pennsylvania is not part of that market so we
(08:57):
did a study so to be able to recommend to the governor like why there's any need for to doing
it and the benefits that that could bring so these are like two examples but at the center
since we convened the research that happens from faculties and students we're able to
(09:22):
to to to put this a brief that have informed other policies like we very recently a piece of
legislation a regulation that was adopted by the EPA they they take took into consideration one
of the reports of the center yeah that's what we want because it's that's the way
(09:48):
translating academic research into real practical policy problems that's great and would you say
would you say from the so like policy wise you work mainly with the government and the policymaker
would you say there's let's say enough support towards the academia and funding the research to
(10:11):
maybe have a better policymaking practices well i mean lately we yes i mean there there are a lot of
opportunities because there is an interest from the federal government for for these policies to
succeed so i i would say that there are any opportunities especially for example on the
(10:36):
evaluation of programs so to to do that and obviously by academics it's is is a great
opportunity at the same time during trump years yeah we saw there was nothing i mean there was a
total disconnection between the academia and policymakers because there was no single interest
(11:01):
that's not the case with this federal with the vietnam administration where many academics have
been part of the administration and and and that i think provides a lot of more rigor in the in the
decision making awesome and yeah i think and the whole support from the government can greatly
(11:28):
greatly influence like the work and the results that we can get from the research and the work
that you do absolutely yeah yes and would you say would you say the students research and the
students involvement also plays a great role in like making affecting the policies or yeah it's
a i mean we we have uh uh students obviously the the sort of research and the analysis from phd
(11:58):
students is being also valuable for informing uh electricity markets also and and we have a couple
of examples of of research don't buy students and at the phd level another one was an undergrad he's
(12:19):
he's now doing his phd and and who were trying to influence how the market the market electricity
market oh wow nice that's great yeah and um so i mean we are mainly talking about the energy
policies and uh how they are affecting the market and how we can have uh impact on it how the
(12:45):
students can have an impact on how the research can have impact on it uh would you say would you
say it is one field that like all the universities or the academia should consider like putting
a lot of effort into or the universities also other universities also consider maybe having
(13:05):
center centers like the climate center and encouraging the students and the faculty to
work on the policy and maybe uh influence it in some way yeah i think i think there is there is
a case for for for having i mean for academia influencing policy and centers like the climate
(13:26):
center does that and the role for students i think it's when we're talking about the energy
transition through research influencing policy but also i mean we see a lot here at then and and in
other universities is um in terms of technology producing and and uh technology that can get to
(13:56):
these solutions that we need for decarbonization and uh i've seen over these 10 years also from
from uh i mean from the school of engineering and programs like the viper program which is very
specific on energy research that an interest from students that interesting they come to i mean these
(14:21):
are technology students but they come to us because they i mean once if your innovation you can have
a fantastic idea but if you don't have the funds to develop and so it's sometimes it's difficult
so they are very attracted to study the policy side and to understand how does it work like i
(14:42):
mean can can these have subsidies and how to access those or so there are also an interest on from
from the technology side for innovators and and to to have startups and we've seen i think
over the years at least three or three startups that i mean are are are right now company from
(15:07):
student from 10 that are working on these areas oh and they are like in the energy field startups
or and like the work and the research they have developed in the center have helped them to do
they yeah they they they work with us for the research in some in some part especially when
they are interested in a specific area they look at that but they then they they become yeah
(15:32):
uh that that's great they have companies operating so which is that this sort of ingenuity is i think
it's make makes a university very attractive and and having a role to play in the energy transition
awesome that's great that's that's that's really interesting to hear how it can also have maybe
(15:53):
impact like students or the faculties on like goals and like what they're working on absolutely
yeah so it's really it's really awesome and how what would you say what are the main resources that
the center provides for the students or the faculty that want to get involved
(16:14):
well we uh for the students we and faculty we provide grants for the students as these grants
are are more flexible because they can use it for traveling we have students that were interested on
how offshore technology why is it so well established in northern europe and not here so
(16:44):
and the student went and had a trip to to europe interview companies and produce
a brief for us the policy that just where we experiment the findings of his research and
obviously now he's he he works for an offshore wind company and he was a a lobbyist for the offshore
(17:08):
wind in the u.s so that's that's sort of support that we provide i mean if you have an idea it's
uh it's um either to a trip if you want to attend the conference if you if um
obviously research is also part of that or if you and campus you have a club you want to bring
(17:32):
the speaker and we we support this awesome all this sort of activity for faculty is more limited
to um i mean we have grants and and and for faculty and phd students that these are research grants
every year we issue a call for grants and um that is becoming very popular we have many applicants
(17:58):
and um and we issue these grants the variety of topics is a impressive uh and it's very
satisfactory to see like 10 years ago when we started that we were thinking okay we're starting
there are just around five researchers three researchers thinking on energy policy issues
(18:23):
uh right now i mean in the last call we have so many applications and people uh bringing
uh the what the the issues of the energy transition of climate change change in within the research
areas it's it's there it's fantastic to see that's great that's that's really awesome to see how
(18:45):
the center also provides all of these opportunities and resources for the students also to get involved
in them and um so how would you uh i mean the climate research and everything are pretty urgent
uh in this case and um all the problems and all the issues that there are now i mean the climate
(19:06):
change and the efforts that we are putting into solving some parts that are affecting it and um
talking about the policy how like uh what how would you describe like what what is it it does
it play a big role in uh solving these issues or um what kind of impact it can have on actually
(19:30):
solving the issues or how in other words maybe how urgent is it considering all the problems around
it well i mean it's it's it's very urgent yeah the climate change is so real and it's it's uh i mean
i mean all uh scientists on the world have an agreement and have i mean it's uh of how urgent
(19:57):
this is and we are all starting to to feeling it and that and uh it's um the fact that
before we were talking before about just reducing emissions to try to solve the problem
um today is not just about um reducing emission it's about also about adaptation because these
(20:23):
extreme weather events are happening and therefore in terms of policy it's there is a big challenge
because the resources are not unlimited and and if producing for example cleaner energy and
(20:49):
producing in a more sustainable way the technology some technologies will allow it and
and it will be uh affordable but for some other countries it's not and uh and i think that's that's
one of the despite the urgency the affordability is is very important and and that's something that
(21:12):
i mean you can you cannot uh there is a role for for the developed countries to to support this
transition and um the fact that we have also started to do adaptation and and and adaptation
i mean emissions and and the global warming is so global but the problems of adaptation are so local
(21:40):
and um it's um that that's also a very big challenge or how how i mean localities
municipalities start to spend and invest on on this adaptation because i mean it's not
this extreme weather maybe more frequent and and more damaging every time i see yeah and like um
(22:08):
on the on the local level on the regional levels and would you say it it is like uh pretty effective
also to implement some policies on the local level let's say in the city in the state in the country
internationally so like uh i mean of course like uh the regional or the national uh policies are
(22:28):
going to have a bit more of a effect they are going to affect more everything that is happening
but would you say that the local policies um or from the state policies or the regional policies
also do have a big effect on this i think so and uh but uh obviously the policies depends on on on
(22:51):
the policy maker and one of the big problems of implementing policy is uh the fact that some some
of these policymakers are really working for the lobby groups yeah and um there is a good research
(23:12):
by she's a faculty at the university of california santa barbara leah stokes she has a book about it
on how they love for example at the federal level the the lobbies of the oil and gas industry
uh really rule the agenda the legislative agenda for some uh for some legislate
(23:37):
in the legislation and therefore you have you may have some congress people the people at the
congress that may vote but these companies won't because they have a lot of influence yeah and so
at the local level i mean it's hearing talking about the state level here in pennsylvania there
(23:59):
has been also evidence that the the lobby of coal companies miners have a lot of influence in
pennsylvania politics because they subsidize campaigns so while you have this campaign
subsidizing in the way that the lobbies get a lot of power it's very difficult to implement policies
(24:26):
that will benefit the whole society and not just some companies so that has to change and the only
way to change is really by voting and i would say like it's uh for young people voting should
become should be very important and and choosing who for who you are voting for because that could
(24:51):
make a big difference and um so yeah also implementing policies uh and especially like
climate policies becoming also problematic the nimbus people who don't want anything
(25:14):
in my backyard like so building new transmission lines that are required because you have uh
renewable solar farms or wind farms that because they are new they require this extension
it becomes problematic to bring this because people oppose people don't want to see the cables
(25:39):
people don't want to see the turbines in the sea and then the opposition is becoming getting
to a level of really delaying and and and that delay is a problem because as we talked before
there is an urgency so this nimbus and how to to expedite this is is a big challenge and uh
(26:06):
uh it's um a question of of bringing together and perhaps reaching consensus of course yeah but
it's uh i personally think that reaching consensus is becoming so difficult in so many areas that you
see more and more polarized opinions yeah so that's that's a big challenge and and uh i hope for
(26:32):
the new generations that they see how uh detrimental is this polarization that in the future
that is that could change yeah and i i think like uh even the differences you may be some views they
they should be kind of all of us should be connected to this one big issue which is which
(26:54):
is really urgent as you said that it is it can be catastrophic in uh in 10 years or 20 years or
30 years yeah and or is right now for some some places in the world that have the risk of disappearing
like small island for example so yeah i that's that's something that i mean the reaching consensus
(27:16):
it's it's i think it's going to be key but at the same time i would like to wait here i think you
are positive because you see young young people students who are very committed to this transition
but i have the chance to go to the cop negotiations that the and and it was it was very
(27:44):
difficult it cannot reach consensus this country they all producers want to continue to produce
without no one wants to give up so that lack of consensus is something that for the future should
change in some way and perhaps this is a generational thing and i hope it's going to change yeah and
(28:04):
like um for the young people as you said uh like trying to affect these policies somehow would you
say let's say besides the research and like helping the academia maybe some people want to help
but not specifically by doing research well what would you say there are some ways that people can
(28:25):
affect this or yeah like voting is is one big thing making changes on your daily life like i mean
it's uh do you do if you have the choice to take transit like transit uh and uh but i think the
(28:47):
the most important thing is is to perhaps for people especially interested on on the environment
to to support them i mean if you if you believe that uh i mean your ideas are valuable and make them
(29:10):
uh here like participating in in policy and i know it's um it's hard because the polarization but at
the same time is it's uh it's important to have these young voices coming to those debates because
those debates unfortunately i mean if you see the age of the legislators it's gonna not they're not
(29:35):
gonna think of the future generations yeah and it's it would be very different if you have i
mean these these young voices coming and they're getting interested in in in politics yeah and
what would you say about the let's say uh so um i don't know if it is the same in cancel vina or
(29:56):
in other states so like uh for example leaving some kind of comments on the policies of the
living some kind of comments on the policies online or contributing to it in some way or going
to the hearings of policy making so decisions to policy making would you say that is also one way
to contribute yeah that's that's that's that's if you're passionate about a topic and and and
(30:22):
follow up following this topic and uh providing comments when regulatory agencies that's that's
an option but also i think and and i see my kids so involved in social media combating
disinformation because this information really affects the public opinion definitely and and if
(30:51):
i mean young people are are so into social media and i think if many people get an agreement of
like let's try to combat this information i mean that this is not true and express your opinions
about but obviously with strong valid arguments i think that there is also an opportunity to change
(31:15):
this this this course that in many places it's uh to see like okay renewable oh where if we install
more solar or wind farms it's gonna be so expensive it's gonna be so um and we're gonna have a blackout
(31:36):
because it's so unreliable that's not true i mean and uh and i think there is a discourse that i
think for for especially young people it's it's really to combat this this information and i also
wanted to leave like uh to say that even when commenting or going to hearings or even expressing
(31:59):
your opinion we don't have to know like everything that is in that policy and it can just be about
like a small thing that we just want to express about our opinion on and i think that's really
important to to know that like even let's say i'm not an expert in uh electricity markets but i know
that it is going to affect me somehow so it is also important to kind of just have your opinion
(32:23):
on it or just leave your opinion on it that is going to affect you and even though let's say i'm
not an expert but it is yeah and and and that's for certain like i mean express your opinion and
contact your representatives when you think like i mean this is going to be the way and i i i think
(32:43):
that's they shouldn't be doing that so contact them and i i think that there is there is a role
for that awesome so we are we are coming uh we are coming to the end of our uh podcast i just wanted
to maybe give you a space to share um or conclude your ideas or maybe leave some call to action for
(33:08):
the people who are listening to this uh yeah well i think other ideas is is um and and thinking
about young people that i mean you are now at the university you are going to be soon in the job
market and um some when when i we could see it like this energy transition to get so that people
(33:32):
really buying is jobs and and and i think there's a big opportunity for this generation
to work on these sectors and to to go for example the utilities this is uh they are being so
(33:52):
criticized because these are like monopolies you don't have i mean you can have a different
supplier but the the the asset the the cables is just one company and you cannot choose a different
one so and this is a business that is becoming i mean uh has to change and it's kind of reluctant
(34:17):
to change because the mentality is that i mean they get all the because they are regulated they
get all the revenues that they request in some way but i think there is this generation should
should look at these sectors which are not as sexy as working in i don't know technology but
(34:45):
where there's so much need of talent and new ideas and more progressive thinking and um it's a
a job scene in clean energy are expanding and um we're gonna see in the next year like i mean
they are bringing like even the the mining of of rare metals here to the to the us and the
(35:14):
transformation we need to make sure that this is be done it's going to be done in a sustainable way
so i'll just invite of of of your listeners to to think about like the sort of jobs in this sector
because it's um the i mean young talent is needed and new ideas awesome thank you so much and i
(35:41):
and i wanted to add that uh even even if people will not consider let's say jobs in this market
it is it is really important to maybe kind of take notes of how you can contribute to this
with just your daily actions or with just just like leaving comments or doing some kind of
actually even with voting so uh it's it's really important to just leave some kind of let's say
(36:06):
effort into this because this is something that is gonna affect us big in the future
so yeah so thank you so much again for no you're welcome thank you for the invitation
awesome and thank you a lot for listening to talking environment and make sure to
to join us next time for another episode and yeah have a great day and take care until next time.
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