August 1, 2023 • 31 mins
Join us as we journey to Stephen F. Austin's colonial headquarters with Texas Historical Commission site manager for the San Felipe de Austin Historic Site, Bryan MCauley. Bryan takes us on a personal journey through his experiences and shares insights from his unique and informative perspective on the rich history of Texas and the importance of preserving our past. So, tune in to our latest episode to uncover Texas’s rich history, the role of public history in preserving it with Bryan McAuley.
Learn more about San Felipe de Austin Historic Site at https://www.thc.texas.gov/historic-sites/san-felipe-de-austin
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is not sponsored by.
It does not reflect the viewsof the institutions that employ
us.
It is solely our thoughts andideas, based upon our
professional training and studyof the past ["The US's Media
(00:47):
enjoying New Mexico and the coolair of this hot, hot summer.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm actually myself in St Paul, minnesota, where
it's a lot cooler than it is inTexas, but with me today is
Brian McCauley, who is the TexasHistorical Commission site
manager for the San Felipe deAustin Historic Site, just
outside of Houston.
(01:12):
Brian, thanks for being on theshow today.
Now tell everybody what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
We have a division called the Historic Sites
Division that oversees publichistory projects and sites that
are run by the agency, and I'mspecifically assigned to the San
Felipe de Austin State HistoricSite, just outside of Katie,
texas, on the west side andright next to Sealy on I-10.
So we're along the state'sbusiest tourism corridor one of
(01:39):
them, certainly and areprivileged to be able to share
the stories of Stephen F Austinand settlers who came to Mexican
Texas before independence.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Where are you from?
Are you a native?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Texan.
I'm a native Texan and I grewup in the footprint of Austin's
colony, as it were.
So I went to high school in thecounty seat of Brasoria County
and in Angleton, texas.
So Brasoria and Fort Bend andAustin County, where I work
today, are all really in thecore of where people were
settling when Austin was givingout land as part of Mexico.
(02:08):
And I have a weird personalconnection to Stephen F Austin
anda, distant, distant cousin,closer to England than to Texas,
as I joke with people.
But we have a common ancestorand I grew up in a family that
appreciated genealogicalinterest in history and I became
a self-identified history nerdby about fourth grade, certainly
(02:29):
by seventh grade.
I was pretty hardcore and had agreat seventh grade Texas
history teacher, so I always hada history bug.
I didn't perceive it as acareer path, honestly, before I
went to college.
So, but yeah, I got a chance tosee a lot of this up close and
personal growing up and it'sbeen a real privilege to serve
at San Felipe for the last 15years.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Where'd you go to college?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
My undergraduate degree is from the University of
Texas.
I actually commuted to theUniversity of Houston for a
couple of years while I wasfiguring out what I wanted to be
when I grew up, and then Itransitioned to Austin and
graduated with a BA ingovernment and anthropology in
1991.
I took a summer field school inBelize and did some archaeology
(03:11):
mine archaeology to see if thatwas the career path for me, and
pretty quickly learned I didn'tlike being hot and dirty and
sweaty and traveling the countryand not being with my family,
so I chose not to pursue thatpath.
Interestingly, I've pretty muchalways worked with historic
sites that have significantarchaeology, so it's been a fun
resource.
And then I did a graduatedegree at Texas State in San
(03:32):
Marcus, which is also inpolitical science and the rest
is history there.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, so how did you transition from political
science into working for theTexas Historical Commission?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I know you had that archeology background, but yeah,
so my first real job, as wethink back on our lives and
imagine how things have gottenus to any given point.
I took a job with the stateattorney's office in 1996.
And honestly, gene, mybackground had prepared me
primarily to do a lot of publicspeaking.
(04:08):
As an academic, as a student,I'd done a lot of paper
presentations and worked withcommittees and panels, and so I
was able to convey my graduatedegree in political science and
that kind of on the groundspeaking talent to work for the
AG's office in constituentservices.
And I did that for about fouryears.
So when I was living in AustinI got married there and then had
(04:29):
both my kids and was working atthe AG's office during that
time.
And then politics is alwayskind of a weird bedfellow for
anybody, and it's certainly fornon-elected politician.
It can be a little strange.
So I didn't have as much fun asI hoped I might being a talking
head for politicians.
I worked for both Dan Moralesand for John Cornyn during the
(04:50):
time that they were attorney'sgeneral, and then I decided to
start looking for options as astate employee that might better
suit my skillset but also myinterest in public history and
that kind of thing.
So initially I looked at jobswith Parks and Wildlife, like a
lot of people might, and wastrying to find a fit there, and
ironically, the HistoricalCommission in that moment,
(05:10):
around 2000, was relaunching aninitiative to promote the
heritage trails that GovernorConnolly had created in the
1960s as a way to get peopleinto rural Texas to find history
.
And so I was hired on a grant.
I was not an actual employee ofthe agency, but I was hired to
manage a grant program relatedto redeveloping the Texas
(05:31):
Independence Trail and I movedto Victoria where I happened to
have some family.
It was an interesting overlapbecause I was in Victoria while
they were doing a lot of theLaSalle archaeology that was
going on.
Both the shipwreck had beenfinished, but they were doing
work at the Fort St Louis sitenear Victoria and they had a
(05:51):
public archaeology lab which Igot a chance to visit and
explore during my job there.
So I did that, worked on thetrail program for about a year
and a half, and in that time Ifound that a lot of small town
museums were interested in thework that I was doing and I got
a chance to consider some otherjob opportunities and ultimately
took a job with the Fort BentonCounty Museum as a marketing
(06:13):
director and was smart enough tothink that might open the door
to future museum management, andso I started exploring how I
could move into operating themuseum from that post.
The Fort Benton Museum alsoruns a site called the George
Ranch Historical Park, and so Iwas involved primarily at the
park and did get a chance tomove into museum management and
(06:35):
museum education and that sortof thing.
And then just by happenstance,that institution was going
through some changes andupheaval around 2007, which was
the year that the legislaturemigrated the first batch of
historic sites to the HistoricalCommission as part of the newly
formed Historic Sites Division.
So I was exploring options withpeople that I knew at the agency
(06:57):
.
I'd worked for the agency onthe grant program, I'd been a
client of the agency at themuseum level, and so I started
reaching out to see if theremight be a home for me and was
pleased.
Initially they offered me twosites that had never been fully
open to the public.
One was the Leibar-JurtonPlantation in Bersoria County
and then the other one was SanFelipe, site which had never
(07:18):
really been significantlydeveloped.
Parks and Wildlife here has agreat state park, but the
history part of the operationwas always sort of run in
partnership with othernonprofits, including a group
that's now my friend's group,and so I was excited to be able
to work on projects that weregoing to be changing and
becoming new and exciting things.
So I came to work for theagency in the spring of 2008 and
(07:41):
have just celebrated a 15thanniversary with the agency.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
If I wanted to work for the Texas Historical
Commission in getting involvedin site management or many of
the other projects that THC does.
What advice?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
would you give me?
So obviously, public historycan be highly motivating for
people who have that interest,particularly if you have an
audience interest, and that'salways where I came from.
My fascination with museums hadto do with how and why people
come and what they're trying toexplore and how you create
memorable experiences.
So that's a lot of what I haddone in my previous two posts,
(08:19):
but I think I'm an interestingcase study for your question
because, like you note, I don'thave a traditional museum
studies background or even ahistory background, although my
political science focus alwayshad an historical tinge to it,
partly to serve my interest as ahistory nerd.
My master's thesis was aboutthe War of 1812, back in the
good old days.
So I always had that interestand I thought it was wonderful
(08:41):
that San Felipe became my focusbecause it's got some really
crazy political storiesassociated with the history of
this town, and so I think myskill set and my ability to
analyze some of those thingsserves well.
So, for people looking for work,the agency has really had some
success over the last decade indeveloping and managing
(09:02):
state-of-store properties, soour division has certainly grown
.
We added some positions duringthis most recent legislative
session.
We've added sites that havecome into the fold either
through acquisition or peoplelooking for a place to park a
new historic site or transfer ahandful from parks over the last
few sessions.
But I think there's some greatopportunities and the good news
(09:23):
for people looking at this as apotential career path is that
almost all skill sets could beapplied in some way.
There's a number of things thatwe do that while they're
classified as an educator orwhatever, they're very adaptive
to skills that people can bringif they have confidence and a
record of success, particularlyin program management, project
management sort of stuff there'ssome real opportunity there.
(09:45):
So I encourage anybody lookingat historic sites as a
prospective employee track.
Our website posts a number ofjobs.
We've got a whole bunch upthere today.
I just had a staff meeting thismorning in which my staff was
commenting on the number of jobpostings our agency currently
has out there.
So if you know somebody lookingto work in this field, then
there's a great opportunitythere.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
But I know that the THC does a lot of work in a lot
of different areas, fromhistorical markers that
everybody's familiar with tosite management, the historic
trails program.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Main Street Courthouse Preservation, all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Now let's talk a little bit about San Felipe.
The first time I went to SanFelipe it was just kind of there
was a log cabin store, therewas a big, gigantic bronze
monument of Stephen F Austinsitting, and that was about it,
and I don't in fact the timesthat I'd been there I don't
think there was anybody elsethere.
(10:43):
Today that's all changed.
It is thriving, and that's onlyone part of the site.
So describe how what you cansee if you go out to San Felipe.
It's just four miles offInterstate 10.
So what am I going to see as avisitor?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
So I appreciate that set up.
Gina.
We do think we've reallychanged the visitor experience
in dynamic ways over the lastdecade or so.
So, like you, I made my firstvisit here.
I have a 90-plus year oldgrandfather who shares that
Austin lineage, that connectionthat I mentioned, and he helped
foster some of my historynerdness early on.
(11:22):
And I'm pretty sure we came tothe same Felipe site in the
1980s, maybe even late 1970s, asone of my first visits and it
looked the same way to me when Iwas here the first time the
replica cabin.
And there was an historicbuilding that, to your point,
was operated as a museum formuch of its time here.
It was often only open on theweekends, it was volunteer run
(11:43):
and if you were here on thewrong day you weren't going to
have access to it.
And then the Austin bronze thatyou mentioned.
That's one of the 20 centennialstatues that were commissioned
as part of the state centennialplanned in 1936.
Like a lot of things,politicians and artists don't
necessarily speak the samelanguage.
So most of those statues werenot put in place for a year or
two after the centennial becauseit took so much time to
(12:05):
generate them.
But the Austin statue wasstaged here in the fall of 1938.
So it is an important part ofour storyline and connection to
that person, certainly, who hada profound impact on the story
we tell.
But starting in 2008, I came towork for the agency we weren't
sure in the early years ofexactly what form this site
(12:26):
might take.
What were we going to do?
It's a state archaeologicallandmark and one of the
challenges that listeners mightnot be aware of the town was
deliberately burned,historically as part of the
runway scrape.
So one of the reasons so littlewas known about the town is it
didn't have much of a physicalpresence.
People had a rough idea ofwhere things were.
They put the statue in a placethat's actually very close to
(12:47):
the original downtown district,so they got that right, but
there wasn't any resource herethat you could see the story in
when you came to visit.
It was a very challenged thing.
A good friend of mine andmentor who used to work for the
agency, dan Utley, used to haveme come speak to his graduate
classes at Texas State and thewhole premise for him was to put
me out on stage and say tellhim how you talk about a place
(13:09):
where there's nothing left.
Tell him how you interpretsomething like that.
So I used to joke.
Well, yeah, it's a challenge.
But we also knew we'd beplanning for an improved visitor
experience and so we got reallyserious about the project
around 2015, 2016, and started afundraising campaign.
The original intent was tospend about $12 million roughly
(13:31):
half and half public and privatefunding and we had a lot of
success in private fundraising.
This is an exciting story forpeople.
It connects to almost everybodythat people know from the Texas
Independence and TexasRevolution era and, of course,
stephen F Austin really didn'thave a dynamic home for his
story, so that was an importantpart of it for us.
But we broke ground in the fallof 2016.
(13:54):
We then finished out ourfundraising campaign.
We had a little hiccup relatedto Hurricane Harvey and slowed
down the private side a littlebit, but we were able to juggle
some private monies.
Ultimately, the project endedabout 70, 30 public private, but
we got to the finish line andopened the facility here in the
spring of 2018.
So we've been open a little morethan five years and, yes, we've
(14:17):
seen a lot more visitors.
We have a modern visitor centerbuilding with modern exhibits.
We hear from a lot of guests.
They clearly respond to thesort of our contemporary feel.
They like the fact that a lotof museums in Texas, just by
happenstance, by reality, havetaken on a little bit of a dated
look.
All the big museums are goingthrough redos right now and
they're all going to get a freshcoat of paint and a new
(14:39):
facelift in the next few yearsat the Alamo and San Jacinto and
Washington, nebraska and allthose popular sites.
But we were privileged to getout ahead of that schedule and
our visitors have reallyresponded well.
So to your point about how weinterpret the site, the visitor
center has a really compellingstory.
It uses some objects, it uses alittle bit of media.
We had some custom art designedto help stage some of the
(15:01):
stories.
And then the property, thefacility sits right on the edge
of what we think was part of theoccupied town site.
So our agency's motto of realplaces, real stories really
plays out well here.
We find visitors justenthralled that they can walk
the grounds where someone likeStephen F Austin or William
Travis or whoever was on thestreets.
And so we do someinterpretation in the landscape
(15:24):
of where buildings might havebeen and where stories were
playing out.
And in the coming couple ofyears I'm excited to announce
we're going to be opening apublic archaeology lab.
So when I had that trailsprogram back in 2000, so 23
years ago we did an assessmentof the region where we went out
with a team of expertsmultidisciplinary experts and we
(15:44):
looked at properties that werepart of the independent story
and how to promote them, how tolink them, and I remember
vividly I walked the groundshere at San Felipe, over by the
statue, with the leadarchaeologist on the LaSalle
project.
At that time he was one of ourexperts, traveling with us for a
couple of days.
His name was Mike Davis andMike pointed out to me that San
Felipe was the next great publicarchaeology project.
(16:05):
At some point the state's goingto get excited about this place
like they did about LaSalleBecause it was burned and
because of the people that werehere.
It was really going to be acompelling experience.
So I'm excited that now we'reon the verge of creating that
public archaeology component forthis site and that future
visitors will be able to come inand explore our facilities,
take a look at what we'reanalyzing, what's come out of
(16:27):
ground recently, and get a senseof what we're thinking about
and the questions we're tryingto answer and what we're finding
in response.
It's a really compellingvisitor experience, I think.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
You just can't get away from the archaeology.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, that's a big deal here and it's something
that we're doing pretty wellright now.
Obviously, texas celebratesArchaeology Month in October and
that's a big part of ourcelebration.
Many of the objects on displayin our exhibit were
archaeological recoveries andthat's just a reality.
People that had really coolStephen F Austin associated
stuff or objects associated withother town residents and
(17:02):
visitors.
Because we were so late to thispublic history party, those
objects had all been given away,they were in collections and so
I don't have the privilege ofacquiring a lot of that stuff.
I'm excited we're opening up atemporary exhibit in September,
so next month that willcelebrate mostly it's kind of
themed around the bicentennialof the founding of the town,
(17:23):
which happened in the fall of1823.
So, being an early site forindependence and settlement, we
get to start pushing thisbicentennial story as we lead up
to 2036.
And we're going to be borrowingsome really unique objects,
documents and others from theGeneral Land Office, who's a
great partner of ours, from theState Library and Archives, from
the State Preservation Board,from the Brisco Center at UT.
(17:45):
We've got a lot of things ontap that'll be part of this
year-long celebration and we'rebookending it around two
bicentennials that we're reallyexcited about the founding of
the town where Stephen F Austinand the Baron de Bastrop stand
here on the bluff and say thisis the place, this is where
we're going to operate ourheadquarters, and then on the
back end, next summer we'll becelebrating the initial issuance
(18:08):
of deeds under the Mexicangovernment to what history now
knows of as the old 300.
So that summer of 1824 is whenmany of them started getting
their legal title to late.
So we're going to have both ofthose bicentennials sort of
encapsulated in this exhibit.
It'll be a lot of fun for us.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
If you've not been out to the San Felipe site, you
are really missing out on agreat part of Texas history at a
fantastic state of the artmuseum that is.
I tell people when they say,well, where's the good museum, I
say look, go out, see SanFelipe.
(18:45):
That is awesome and I've reallygot to congratulate you guys on
such a top notch museum.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It's a real privilege for me to have been on this
project team for as long as Ihave been, and I didn't mention
earlier there were a lot ofsites.
I grew up close to theBarnard-Hog plantation when I
was a kid, in high school andthings, and when I first
approached the agency about thesites that were transferring, I
remember somebody in Austin hadthe bright idea.
Well, that's right there whereyou are, I'll put you at
Barnard-Hog.
(19:13):
Maybe that'd be a good optionand I had the thought to say
I've had a museum career at thatpoint for almost a decade and
what was motivating to me wasbeing part of a team that was
going to rethink a visitorexperience somewhere.
And while I love Barnard-Hogand it's a great site and it's
going through some developmentthe Leibach-Jurgen complex now
that site was less appealing tome because it already existed.
(19:36):
I really wanted to work at asite where we were going to be
thinking through the issues ofaudience and what we could offer
, and Samplein Bay is uniquelychallenged.
We were what I always tellpeople were object poor when we
started planning for our exhibitand we had to think about how
to tell stories in somewhatnon-traditional ways.
But I appreciate you being sucha great champion of the site.
I've enjoyed having you outhere.
(19:56):
I remember, jean, I tell thestory sometimes A lot of times
on weekends we do structuredprogramming just sort of off the
cuff, where we'll offer a themetour or something, and I
remember one day we had astaffing crisis and somebody
couldn't make it in and somebodyelse had a problem.
I ended up being here alone onSunday and we had scheduled a
program about the old 300.
I don't remember exactly thetopic, but I got a call from you
(20:18):
at some point.
You and your wife, I think,were coming back from the hill
country and you said, hey, isthat two o'clock program still
going on?
And I was thinking, yeah, comeon in.
And so I think I had to set youall up near the front desk so
that I could run admissions, ifanybody was coming in, but we
had a great time with it.
Our staff here really enjoyedthe privilege of telling all the
stories we get to tell, andI'll tell you on behalf of the
(20:38):
visitor experience that wewitnessed.
This is a dynamic slam dunk forus interpretively, because most
people that come here and findus now already love the story of
independence.
They're fascinated with all theplayers that were here during
the Mexican era and the lead upto the Republic, and so the fact
that we can connect our site topretty much all the sites that
they already know and love isgreat.
(20:58):
And then we have some storiesthat surprise them.
So many of my visitors,certainly Texans, don't really
grasp that you have a wargovernment here at San Felipe
that flat out rejects anindependence movement.
They're trying to navigate thepolitics of Mexico and they're
trying to figure out how to keepthe team together.
So they're really advocatingfor regime change.
(21:20):
How do we get rid of this crazySanta Ana guy and start back
over with the Constitution wewere all promised at the
national level and make thiswork, and it doesn't last very
long?
That House of Cards is hard tokeep balanced and I always joke.
The provisional governor of theself-identified Mexican state
of Texas that's now going to warwith its mother country.
(21:40):
Henry Smith, he couldn't orderlunch with the guys on his
legislative body.
They hated each other.
So they're here in town andthey can't agree on anything.
They're terribly dysfunctional.
One of my other favorite storiesthat's recently emerged was
when we were working on anexhibit.
Installation related to it inthe next year has to do with the
Texas Navy.
So the Republic of Texas Navyhas gotten some real acclaim in
(22:00):
recent years.
A lot of descendantstakeholders, a lot of
historians getting excited aboutit.
And it's another one of thosefun stories for us where, if I
have a visitor come in and sayI'm really interested in the
Republic of Texas Navy, I get achance to say to them how about
this?
The first ships were boughtbefore there was a Republic.
The government here isinvesting in a Navy without
really even knowing that they'reheaded towards independence at
(22:22):
that point.
Then one of my favorite storiesis you send these ships out
into the Gulf of Mexico to startpatrols and then all of a
sudden the government at SanFelipe folds and the move was
made to Washington and thedependences declared.
Well, there's no way tocommunicate with the naval
officers.
They're just out in the Gulfunderstanding orders trying to
engage an enemy and they don'tknow what's happening from a
(22:43):
government standpoint.
But fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You've got an exhibit coming up next month, in
September, based around apainting, a very famous painting
, and I had no idea who paintedit and no idea that it even had
a title until you told me aboutit Painting everybody's scene,
and that is.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Well, the settlement of Austin's colony, yeah.
So tell us about that exhibityeah so this is the bicentennial
thing that I alluded to alittle bit earlier.
So we're up for a year and weare partnering with the State
Preservation Board.
We're not gonna have thepainting here and I appreciate
you commenting on the text andseeing it.
What I find interesting is theState Preservation Board curator
and I were talking and she'ssuper excited that we're gonna
(23:25):
use a digital graphic related tothe painting because she feels
like not a lot of Texans arevery familiar with the painting.
So the original is at the TexasCapitol, it hangs there and I
wanna say it's in the housechamber, but it's in one of the
chambers at the Capitol.
And Henry MacArthur was an Irishimmigrant who really is a
generation, almost twogenerations removed from this
(23:47):
story, but he becomes famous inthe latter part of the 19th
century for painting these kindof epic battle scenes.
He does one for San Jacinto andone for the Alamo, which are
also owned by the state of Texasand very prominently displayed,
and the one for Austin's Colonyis set in 1824.
And while it has some datednessand it has some representations
(24:08):
that don't always pass musterin the current model, it's a
fascinating study becauseeveryone in the painting is
based on a real person, with theexception of one character who
is a scout of some kindreporting what looks to be an
Indian raid on the frontier.
But we're doing this exhibitabout the bicentennial, where
we're touching on founding thetown, we're touching on early
(24:29):
mapping and surveying, we'retouching on how militias were
formed, and a lot of that has todo with surveying, where
indigenous peoples learnedpretty quickly that when the
guys were changed, showed up,that meant trouble, that
someone's gonna try to build atown or do something, so that
was a source of conflict.
So we're touching on thatinteraction.
And of course those earlymilitias become the footprint of
the ranging companies thattoday a lot of people associate
(24:51):
with the Texas Rangers.
So their bicentennial ties intothat too.
And then, as I mentioned, we'llconclude the exhibits themes
with this whole idea ofsettlement who's coming and how
did they get land?
And so we'll be talking aboutthe old 300 receiving the first
land grants in the summer of1824.
So really fascinating thing.
And MacArthur's paintingtouches every one of those
(25:12):
stories.
So one of the things I'm verypleased that the State
Preservation Board is gonnaallow us to do this with the
image.
A lot of times when you have anhistoric painting collections
don't want you to jimmy with itmuch.
They'll let you use it inexhibit but they don't want you
to mess around with it and we'vegotten permission to sort of
gray scale out parts of thepainting so that each of our sub
themes we focus on the specifichistorical figures or the items
(25:36):
that are depicted.
It's a really fascinatingpainting If you look closely at
it.
There's all kinds of materialculture objects that are there,
including the surveyor who'sdepicted on the floor of the
cabins again in HoratioChristmas, and he's drawing a
surveyor's map, like a noted map, on the floor of this cabin in
the moment that the painting isstaged.
So a lot of fun with thevarious moving parts and we're
(25:58):
gonna use that painting to frameevery part of the exhibit story
.
It'll really be a fun thing forus to celebrate.
We're getting the exhibit readyto open in early September so
that we're hosting a nationalconference of surveyors who have
an interest in history andthey're gonna be in Katie and
Houston and we're gonna be afield trip destination.
(26:18):
We'll come out here and we'lltalk about early surveying and
they'll be one of the firstgroups to see that exhibit.
So super exciting.
Henry McCartles a fascinatingguy.
The state library archives ownsseveral of his notebooks that
he kept information about thepaintings he was creating.
So he touches a lot ofdifferent state bases and the
(26:38):
things that he's involved withand we're really excited to be
able to use this painting in away that captivates our story.
It's set at San Felipe.
I mean his notes about thepainting say this is the land
office cabin at San Felipe.
That's what Stephen F Austin isdepicted representing there,
and he set the painting for 1824.
So it's right in the window ofthe timeline and the story we're
(26:59):
trying to tell.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, that sounds exciting, and I can't wait to
see it.
Brian, we're about to run outof town and one thing we wanna
ask everyone who's on the showis what do you know?
So, brian Macaulay, what do youknow?
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So I appreciated you giving me a little heads up on
this question and the playfulpivot you guys like to do with
it, because I do think a lot ofpeople in our field, where
museums and public history werevery collaborative, and so a lot
of us don't invest a super tonof ego and, as our wives and
friends would say, a lot of whatwe know is a bunch of useless
information.
We've dug deep in files andbooks and can spot all kinds of
(27:37):
stuff that will make people'seyes roll back in their head,
but I would tell you, from apublic history standpoint, from
the ways that we celebratehistory, what I know in 20 plus
years of working in this fieldis that, as business books will
attest in other fields too, it'snot about what you individually
do.
It's about how you find ways toempower your colleagues, your
(27:59):
resources, to accomplish thingsthat have an impact on people.
So I find all of us hope thatwe write a book someday and we
have some little claim to acorner of history that we're an
expert in and can do whatever,and that's all great and maybe
it'll happen and maybe it won'tfor most of us, but at the end
of the day, what I know is thatvisitors are motivated when you
(28:20):
can show them really cool andexciting stuff in a public
history setting, and I can'tcarry enough water to serve all
those visitors.
So I, as a manager, have to beopen-minded to the various ideas
my staff and colleagues canbring to bear.
The more we can put out there,inevitably, the better
experience my visitors have, andwe want to make this a place,
to your point earlier, thatTexans can come and be proud of
(28:43):
and hopefully walk away going.
Wow, I learned some really coolstuff I didn't know before and
I've always imagined a lot ofnew stuff about Stephen F Austin
, but I really didn't understandall the story and that kind of
thing.
So I think that's what I know.
This is very much acollaborative experience and we
feel like visitors contribute tothat.
We're a place wherestakeholders who are genetically
(29:04):
connected to some of ourhistorical figures come here all
the time, so almost a week goesby that I don't have someone
come in and I'll share with you.
We did a program recently withKen Wise, who I mentioned
earlier.
He came out into a nighttimeprogram with us and he's a big
fan of a memoirist named NoahSmithwick who had written an
(29:25):
account very late in his lifethat was often dismissed because
he's 100 years old when he'sdictating these memoirs and how
accurate can he be?
But he gets some things rightand we enjoy that.
And I was joking with Kenbefore we did the program.
I had a visitor of all thingsfrom Western Canada, from
Ontario, show up at my museum acouple of few months ago and she
(29:47):
was asking me about a veryobscure historical figure and a
story and I'll admit she stumpedthe band.
She knew stuff that I didn'tknow and we were kind of poking
around on this.
And then she told me it's astory from Smithwick.
I said, ok, well, let's look atthe source and chase this down.
And it's the craziest thing.
She had an ancestor who I wantto say was in Kentucky, who
decided he was going to we jokedlike the equivalent of flipping
(30:09):
a house to make your moneythese days.
He was going to flip a herd ofmules.
He was going to come down toTexas, get his hands on these
mules and sell them in SanAntonio and make his fame and
fortune and he ends up beingmurdered and Smithwick ends up
connected to it.
So Smithwick goes to SanAntonio, ends up buying or
taking a horse and riding itback to San Felipe.
And the guys here at San Felipewho would run the stable say,
(30:31):
hey, we just sold that horse toa guy who's gone missing.
And so there's this wholeintrigue around it.
And in this case I have thisvisitor walk in from Canada who
had grown up in the MidwestMaybe she was in Ohio, I don't
know long about that and she'stelling me this story about her
family trying to figure out whathappened to her long deceased
tangent ancestor who came toTexas and has mentioned in
(30:52):
Smithwick's book.
So we get those experiences allthe time and I always tell
visitors you're part of thecollaborative team, you're
helping us learn layers andnuance and things that we can
share with future visitors.
That's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But hey, Brian, I want to thank you so much for
joining us here on Talking TexasHistory.
Encourage people to go out andvisit the site.
It's a great site.
We're closed on.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Mondays, tuesdays Come see us any other day, 9 to
5.
Our next big event we do aNovember event themed around
Stephen F Austin, often calledthe Father of Texas Because of
our bicentennial exhibit.
This will be a fun November tocome.
It's the second Saturday inNovember and we do a free
admission.
This podcast is not sponsored by.
It does not reflect the viewsof the institutions that employ
us.
It is solely our thoughts andideas, based upon our
professional training and studyof the past ["The US's Media
(00:47):
enjoying New Mexico and the coolair of this hot, hot summer.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm actually myself in St Paul, minnesota, where
it's a lot cooler than it is inTexas, but with me today is
Brian McCauley, who is the TexasHistorical Commission site
manager for the San Felipe deAustin Historic Site, just
outside of Houston.
(01:12):
Brian, thanks for being on theshow today.
Now tell everybody what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
We have a division called the Historic Sites
Division that oversees publichistory projects and sites that
are run by the agency, and I'mspecifically assigned to the San
Felipe de Austin State HistoricSite, just outside of Katie,
texas, on the west side andright next to Sealy on I-10.
So we're along the state'sbusiest tourism corridor one of
(01:39):
them, certainly and areprivileged to be able to share
the stories of Stephen F Austinand settlers who came to Mexican
Texas before independence.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Where are you from?
Are you a native?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Texan.
I'm a native Texan and I grewup in the footprint of Austin's
colony, as it were.
So I went to high school in thecounty seat of Brasoria County
and in Angleton, texas.
So Brasoria and Fort Bend andAustin County, where I work
today, are all really in thecore of where people were
settling when Austin was givingout land as part of Mexico.
(02:08):
And I have a weird personalconnection to Stephen F Austin
anda, distant, distant cousin,closer to England than to Texas,
as I joke with people.
But we have a common ancestorand I grew up in a family that
appreciated genealogicalinterest in history and I became
a self-identified history nerdby about fourth grade, certainly
(02:29):
by seventh grade.
I was pretty hardcore and had agreat seventh grade Texas
history teacher, so I always hada history bug.
I didn't perceive it as acareer path, honestly, before I
went to college.
So, but yeah, I got a chance tosee a lot of this up close and
personal growing up and it'sbeen a real privilege to serve
at San Felipe for the last 15years.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Where'd you go to college?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
My undergraduate degree is from the University of
Texas.
I actually commuted to theUniversity of Houston for a
couple of years while I wasfiguring out what I wanted to be
when I grew up, and then Itransitioned to Austin and
graduated with a BA ingovernment and anthropology in
1991.
I took a summer field school inBelize and did some archaeology
(03:11):
mine archaeology to see if thatwas the career path for me, and
pretty quickly learned I didn'tlike being hot and dirty and
sweaty and traveling the countryand not being with my family,
so I chose not to pursue thatpath.
Interestingly, I've pretty muchalways worked with historic
sites that have significantarchaeology, so it's been a fun
resource.
And then I did a graduatedegree at Texas State in San
(03:32):
Marcus, which is also inpolitical science and the rest
is history there.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, so how did you transition from political
science into working for theTexas Historical Commission?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I know you had that archeology background, but yeah,
so my first real job, as wethink back on our lives and
imagine how things have gottenus to any given point.
I took a job with the stateattorney's office in 1996.
And honestly, gene, mybackground had prepared me
primarily to do a lot of publicspeaking.
(04:08):
As an academic, as a student,I'd done a lot of paper
presentations and worked withcommittees and panels, and so I
was able to convey my graduatedegree in political science and
that kind of on the groundspeaking talent to work for the
AG's office in constituentservices.
And I did that for about fouryears.
So when I was living in AustinI got married there and then had
(04:29):
both my kids and was working atthe AG's office during that
time.
And then politics is alwayskind of a weird bedfellow for
anybody, and it's certainly fornon-elected politician.
It can be a little strange.
So I didn't have as much fun asI hoped I might being a talking
head for politicians.
I worked for both Dan Moralesand for John Cornyn during the
(04:50):
time that they were attorney'sgeneral, and then I decided to
start looking for options as astate employee that might better
suit my skillset but also myinterest in public history and
that kind of thing.
So initially I looked at jobswith Parks and Wildlife, like a
lot of people might, and wastrying to find a fit there, and
ironically, the HistoricalCommission in that moment,
(05:10):
around 2000, was relaunching aninitiative to promote the
heritage trails that GovernorConnolly had created in the
1960s as a way to get peopleinto rural Texas to find history
.
And so I was hired on a grant.
I was not an actual employee ofthe agency, but I was hired to
manage a grant program relatedto redeveloping the Texas
(05:31):
Independence Trail and I movedto Victoria where I happened to
have some family.
It was an interesting overlapbecause I was in Victoria while
they were doing a lot of theLaSalle archaeology that was
going on.
Both the shipwreck had beenfinished, but they were doing
work at the Fort St Louis sitenear Victoria and they had a
(05:51):
public archaeology lab which Igot a chance to visit and
explore during my job there.
So I did that, worked on thetrail program for about a year
and a half, and in that time Ifound that a lot of small town
museums were interested in thework that I was doing and I got
a chance to consider some otherjob opportunities and ultimately
took a job with the Fort BentonCounty Museum as a marketing
(06:13):
director and was smart enough tothink that might open the door
to future museum management, andso I started exploring how I
could move into operating themuseum from that post.
The Fort Benton Museum alsoruns a site called the George
Ranch Historical Park, and so Iwas involved primarily at the
park and did get a chance tomove into museum management and
(06:35):
museum education and that sortof thing.
And then just by happenstance,that institution was going
through some changes andupheaval around 2007, which was
the year that the legislaturemigrated the first batch of
historic sites to the HistoricalCommission as part of the newly
formed Historic Sites Division.
So I was exploring options withpeople that I knew at the agency
(06:57):
.
I'd worked for the agency onthe grant program, I'd been a
client of the agency at themuseum level, and so I started
reaching out to see if theremight be a home for me and was
pleased.
Initially they offered me twosites that had never been fully
open to the public.
One was the Leibar-JurtonPlantation in Bersoria County
and then the other one was SanFelipe, site which had never
(07:18):
really been significantlydeveloped.
Parks and Wildlife here has agreat state park, but the
history part of the operationwas always sort of run in
partnership with othernonprofits, including a group
that's now my friend's group,and so I was excited to be able
to work on projects that weregoing to be changing and
becoming new and exciting things.
So I came to work for theagency in the spring of 2008 and
(07:41):
have just celebrated a 15thanniversary with the agency.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
If I wanted to work for the Texas Historical
Commission in getting involvedin site management or many of
the other projects that THC does.
What advice?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
would you give me?
So obviously, public historycan be highly motivating for
people who have that interest,particularly if you have an
audience interest, and that'salways where I came from.
My fascination with museums hadto do with how and why people
come and what they're trying toexplore and how you create
memorable experiences.
So that's a lot of what I haddone in my previous two posts,
(08:19):
but I think I'm an interestingcase study for your question
because, like you note, I don'thave a traditional museum
studies background or even ahistory background, although my
political science focus alwayshad an historical tinge to it,
partly to serve my interest as ahistory nerd.
My master's thesis was aboutthe War of 1812, back in the
good old days.
So I always had that interestand I thought it was wonderful
(08:41):
that San Felipe became my focusbecause it's got some really
crazy political storiesassociated with the history of
this town, and so I think myskill set and my ability to
analyze some of those thingsserves well.
So, for people looking for work,the agency has really had some
success over the last decade indeveloping and managing
(09:02):
state-of-store properties, soour division has certainly grown
.
We added some positions duringthis most recent legislative
session.
We've added sites that havecome into the fold either
through acquisition or peoplelooking for a place to park a
new historic site or transfer ahandful from parks over the last
few sessions.
But I think there's some greatopportunities and the good news
(09:23):
for people looking at this as apotential career path is that
almost all skill sets could beapplied in some way.
There's a number of things thatwe do that while they're
classified as an educator orwhatever, they're very adaptive
to skills that people can bringif they have confidence and a
record of success, particularlyin program management, project
management sort of stuff there'ssome real opportunity there.
(09:45):
So I encourage anybody lookingat historic sites as a
prospective employee track.
Our website posts a number ofjobs.
We've got a whole bunch upthere today.
I just had a staff meeting thismorning in which my staff was
commenting on the number of jobpostings our agency currently
has out there.
So if you know somebody lookingto work in this field, then
there's a great opportunitythere.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
But I know that the THC does a lot of work in a lot
of different areas, fromhistorical markers that
everybody's familiar with tosite management, the historic
trails program.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Main Street Courthouse Preservation, all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Now let's talk a little bit about San Felipe.
The first time I went to SanFelipe it was just kind of there
was a log cabin store, therewas a big, gigantic bronze
monument of Stephen F Austinsitting, and that was about it,
and I don't in fact the timesthat I'd been there I don't
think there was anybody elsethere.
(10:43):
Today that's all changed.
It is thriving, and that's onlyone part of the site.
So describe how what you cansee if you go out to San Felipe.
It's just four miles offInterstate 10.
So what am I going to see as avisitor?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
So I appreciate that set up.
Gina.
We do think we've reallychanged the visitor experience
in dynamic ways over the lastdecade or so.
So, like you, I made my firstvisit here.
I have a 90-plus year oldgrandfather who shares that
Austin lineage, that connectionthat I mentioned, and he helped
foster some of my historynerdness early on.
(11:22):
And I'm pretty sure we came tothe same Felipe site in the
1980s, maybe even late 1970s, asone of my first visits and it
looked the same way to me when Iwas here the first time the
replica cabin.
And there was an historicbuilding that, to your point,
was operated as a museum formuch of its time here.
It was often only open on theweekends, it was volunteer run
(11:43):
and if you were here on thewrong day you weren't going to
have access to it.
And then the Austin bronze thatyou mentioned.
That's one of the 20 centennialstatues that were commissioned
as part of the state centennialplanned in 1936.
Like a lot of things,politicians and artists don't
necessarily speak the samelanguage.
So most of those statues werenot put in place for a year or
two after the centennial becauseit took so much time to
(12:05):
generate them.
But the Austin statue wasstaged here in the fall of 1938.
So it is an important part ofour storyline and connection to
that person, certainly, who hada profound impact on the story
we tell.
But starting in 2008, I came towork for the agency we weren't
sure in the early years ofexactly what form this site
(12:26):
might take.
What were we going to do?
It's a state archaeologicallandmark and one of the
challenges that listeners mightnot be aware of the town was
deliberately burned,historically as part of the
runway scrape.
So one of the reasons so littlewas known about the town is it
didn't have much of a physicalpresence.
People had a rough idea ofwhere things were.
They put the statue in a placethat's actually very close to
(12:47):
the original downtown district,so they got that right, but
there wasn't any resource herethat you could see the story in
when you came to visit.
It was a very challenged thing.
A good friend of mine andmentor who used to work for the
agency, dan Utley, used to haveme come speak to his graduate
classes at Texas State and thewhole premise for him was to put
me out on stage and say tellhim how you talk about a place
(13:09):
where there's nothing left.
Tell him how you interpretsomething like that.
So I used to joke.
Well, yeah, it's a challenge.
But we also knew we'd beplanning for an improved visitor
experience and so we got reallyserious about the project
around 2015, 2016, and started afundraising campaign.
The original intent was tospend about $12 million roughly
(13:31):
half and half public and privatefunding and we had a lot of
success in private fundraising.
This is an exciting story forpeople.
It connects to almost everybodythat people know from the Texas
Independence and TexasRevolution era and, of course,
stephen F Austin really didn'thave a dynamic home for his
story, so that was an importantpart of it for us.
But we broke ground in the fallof 2016.
(13:54):
We then finished out ourfundraising campaign.
We had a little hiccup relatedto Hurricane Harvey and slowed
down the private side a littlebit, but we were able to juggle
some private monies.
Ultimately, the project endedabout 70, 30 public private, but
we got to the finish line andopened the facility here in the
spring of 2018.
So we've been open a little morethan five years and, yes, we've
(14:17):
seen a lot more visitors.
We have a modern visitor centerbuilding with modern exhibits.
We hear from a lot of guests.
They clearly respond to thesort of our contemporary feel.
They like the fact that a lotof museums in Texas, just by
happenstance, by reality, havetaken on a little bit of a dated
look.
All the big museums are goingthrough redos right now and
they're all going to get a freshcoat of paint and a new
(14:39):
facelift in the next few yearsat the Alamo and San Jacinto and
Washington, nebraska and allthose popular sites.
But we were privileged to getout ahead of that schedule and
our visitors have reallyresponded well.
So to your point about how weinterpret the site, the visitor
center has a really compellingstory.
It uses some objects, it uses alittle bit of media.
We had some custom art designedto help stage some of the
(15:01):
stories.
And then the property, thefacility sits right on the edge
of what we think was part of theoccupied town site.
So our agency's motto of realplaces, real stories really
plays out well here.
We find visitors justenthralled that they can walk
the grounds where someone likeStephen F Austin or William
Travis or whoever was on thestreets.
And so we do someinterpretation in the landscape
(15:24):
of where buildings might havebeen and where stories were
playing out.
And in the coming couple ofyears I'm excited to announce
we're going to be opening apublic archaeology lab.
So when I had that trailsprogram back in 2000, so 23
years ago we did an assessmentof the region where we went out
with a team of expertsmultidisciplinary experts and we
(15:44):
looked at properties that werepart of the independent story
and how to promote them, how tolink them, and I remember
vividly I walked the groundshere at San Felipe, over by the
statue, with the leadarchaeologist on the LaSalle
project.
At that time he was one of ourexperts, traveling with us for a
couple of days.
His name was Mike Davis andMike pointed out to me that San
Felipe was the next great publicarchaeology project.
(16:05):
At some point the state's goingto get excited about this place
like they did about LaSalleBecause it was burned and
because of the people that werehere.
It was really going to be acompelling experience.
So I'm excited that now we'reon the verge of creating that
public archaeology component forthis site and that future
visitors will be able to come inand explore our facilities,
take a look at what we'reanalyzing, what's come out of
(16:27):
ground recently, and get a senseof what we're thinking about
and the questions we're tryingto answer and what we're finding
in response.
It's a really compellingvisitor experience, I think.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
You just can't get away from the archaeology.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, that's a big deal here and it's something
that we're doing pretty wellright now.
Obviously, texas celebratesArchaeology Month in October and
that's a big part of ourcelebration.
Many of the objects on displayin our exhibit were
archaeological recoveries andthat's just a reality.
People that had really coolStephen F Austin associated
stuff or objects associated withother town residents and
(17:02):
visitors.
Because we were so late to thispublic history party, those
objects had all been given away,they were in collections and so
I don't have the privilege ofacquiring a lot of that stuff.
I'm excited we're opening up atemporary exhibit in September,
so next month that willcelebrate mostly it's kind of
themed around the bicentennialof the founding of the town,
(17:23):
which happened in the fall of1823.
So, being an early site forindependence and settlement, we
get to start pushing thisbicentennial story as we lead up
to 2036.
And we're going to be borrowingsome really unique objects,
documents and others from theGeneral Land Office, who's a
great partner of ours, from theState Library and Archives, from
the State Preservation Board,from the Brisco Center at UT.
(17:45):
We've got a lot of things ontap that'll be part of this
year-long celebration and we'rebookending it around two
bicentennials that we're reallyexcited about the founding of
the town where Stephen F Austinand the Baron de Bastrop stand
here on the bluff and say thisis the place, this is where
we're going to operate ourheadquarters, and then on the
back end, next summer we'll becelebrating the initial issuance
(18:08):
of deeds under the Mexicangovernment to what history now
knows of as the old 300.
So that summer of 1824 is whenmany of them started getting
their legal title to late.
So we're going to have both ofthose bicentennials sort of
encapsulated in this exhibit.
It'll be a lot of fun for us.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
If you've not been out to the San Felipe site, you
are really missing out on agreat part of Texas history at a
fantastic state of the artmuseum that is.
I tell people when they say,well, where's the good museum, I
say look, go out, see SanFelipe.
(18:45):
That is awesome and I've reallygot to congratulate you guys on
such a top notch museum.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It's a real privilege for me to have been on this
project team for as long as Ihave been, and I didn't mention
earlier there were a lot ofsites.
I grew up close to theBarnard-Hog plantation when I
was a kid, in high school andthings, and when I first
approached the agency about thesites that were transferring, I
remember somebody in Austin hadthe bright idea.
Well, that's right there whereyou are, I'll put you at
Barnard-Hog.
(19:13):
Maybe that'd be a good optionand I had the thought to say
I've had a museum career at thatpoint for almost a decade and
what was motivating to me wasbeing part of a team that was
going to rethink a visitorexperience somewhere.
And while I love Barnard-Hogand it's a great site and it's
going through some developmentthe Leibach-Jurgen complex now
that site was less appealing tome because it already existed.
(19:36):
I really wanted to work at asite where we were going to be
thinking through the issues ofaudience and what we could offer
, and Samplein Bay is uniquelychallenged.
We were what I always tellpeople were object poor when we
started planning for our exhibitand we had to think about how
to tell stories in somewhatnon-traditional ways.
But I appreciate you being sucha great champion of the site.
I've enjoyed having you outhere.
(19:56):
I remember, jean, I tell thestory sometimes A lot of times
on weekends we do structuredprogramming just sort of off the
cuff, where we'll offer a themetour or something, and I
remember one day we had astaffing crisis and somebody
couldn't make it in and somebodyelse had a problem.
I ended up being here alone onSunday and we had scheduled a
program about the old 300.
I don't remember exactly thetopic, but I got a call from you
(20:18):
at some point.
You and your wife, I think,were coming back from the hill
country and you said, hey, isthat two o'clock program still
going on?
And I was thinking, yeah, comeon in.
And so I think I had to set youall up near the front desk so
that I could run admissions, ifanybody was coming in, but we
had a great time with it.
Our staff here really enjoyedthe privilege of telling all the
stories we get to tell, andI'll tell you on behalf of the
(20:38):
visitor experience that wewitnessed.
This is a dynamic slam dunk forus interpretively, because most
people that come here and findus now already love the story of
independence.
They're fascinated with all theplayers that were here during
the Mexican era and the lead upto the Republic, and so the fact
that we can connect our site topretty much all the sites that
they already know and love isgreat.
(20:58):
And then we have some storiesthat surprise them.
So many of my visitors,certainly Texans, don't really
grasp that you have a wargovernment here at San Felipe
that flat out rejects anindependence movement.
They're trying to navigate thepolitics of Mexico and they're
trying to figure out how to keepthe team together.
So they're really advocatingfor regime change.
(21:20):
How do we get rid of this crazySanta Ana guy and start back
over with the Constitution wewere all promised at the
national level and make thiswork, and it doesn't last very
long?
That House of Cards is hard tokeep balanced and I always joke.
The provisional governor of theself-identified Mexican state
of Texas that's now going to warwith its mother country.
(21:40):
Henry Smith, he couldn't orderlunch with the guys on his
legislative body.
They hated each other.
So they're here in town andthey can't agree on anything.
They're terribly dysfunctional.
One of my other favorite storiesthat's recently emerged was
when we were working on anexhibit.
Installation related to it inthe next year has to do with the
Texas Navy.
So the Republic of Texas Navyhas gotten some real acclaim in
(22:00):
recent years.
A lot of descendantstakeholders, a lot of
historians getting excited aboutit.
And it's another one of thosefun stories for us where, if I
have a visitor come in and sayI'm really interested in the
Republic of Texas Navy, I get achance to say to them how about
this?
The first ships were boughtbefore there was a Republic.
The government here isinvesting in a Navy without
really even knowing that they'reheaded towards independence at
(22:22):
that point.
Then one of my favorite storiesis you send these ships out
into the Gulf of Mexico to startpatrols and then all of a
sudden the government at SanFelipe folds and the move was
made to Washington and thedependences declared.
Well, there's no way tocommunicate with the naval
officers.
They're just out in the Gulfunderstanding orders trying to
engage an enemy and they don'tknow what's happening from a
(22:43):
government standpoint.
But fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You've got an exhibit coming up next month, in
September, based around apainting, a very famous painting
, and I had no idea who paintedit and no idea that it even had
a title until you told me aboutit Painting everybody's scene,
and that is.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Well, the settlement of Austin's colony, yeah.
So tell us about that exhibityeah so this is the bicentennial
thing that I alluded to alittle bit earlier.
So we're up for a year and weare partnering with the State
Preservation Board.
We're not gonna have thepainting here and I appreciate
you commenting on the text andseeing it.
What I find interesting is theState Preservation Board curator
and I were talking and she'ssuper excited that we're gonna
(23:25):
use a digital graphic related tothe painting because she feels
like not a lot of Texans arevery familiar with the painting.
So the original is at the TexasCapitol, it hangs there and I
wanna say it's in the housechamber, but it's in one of the
chambers at the Capitol.
And Henry MacArthur was an Irishimmigrant who really is a
generation, almost twogenerations removed from this
(23:47):
story, but he becomes famous inthe latter part of the 19th
century for painting these kindof epic battle scenes.
He does one for San Jacinto andone for the Alamo, which are
also owned by the state of Texasand very prominently displayed,
and the one for Austin's Colonyis set in 1824.
And while it has some datednessand it has some representations
(24:08):
that don't always pass musterin the current model, it's a
fascinating study becauseeveryone in the painting is
based on a real person, with theexception of one character who
is a scout of some kindreporting what looks to be an
Indian raid on the frontier.
But we're doing this exhibitabout the bicentennial, where
we're touching on founding thetown, we're touching on early
(24:29):
mapping and surveying, we'retouching on how militias were
formed, and a lot of that has todo with surveying, where
indigenous peoples learnedpretty quickly that when the
guys were changed, showed up,that meant trouble, that
someone's gonna try to build atown or do something, so that
was a source of conflict.
So we're touching on thatinteraction.
And of course those earlymilitias become the footprint of
the ranging companies thattoday a lot of people associate
(24:51):
with the Texas Rangers.
So their bicentennial ties intothat too.
And then, as I mentioned, we'llconclude the exhibits themes
with this whole idea ofsettlement who's coming and how
did they get land?
And so we'll be talking aboutthe old 300 receiving the first
land grants in the summer of1824.
So really fascinating thing.
And MacArthur's paintingtouches every one of those
(25:12):
stories.
So one of the things I'm verypleased that the State
Preservation Board is gonnaallow us to do this with the
image.
A lot of times when you have anhistoric painting collections
don't want you to jimmy with itmuch.
They'll let you use it inexhibit but they don't want you
to mess around with it and we'vegotten permission to sort of
gray scale out parts of thepainting so that each of our sub
themes we focus on the specifichistorical figures or the items
(25:36):
that are depicted.
It's a really fascinatingpainting If you look closely at
it.
There's all kinds of materialculture objects that are there,
including the surveyor who'sdepicted on the floor of the
cabins again in HoratioChristmas, and he's drawing a
surveyor's map, like a noted map, on the floor of this cabin in
the moment that the painting isstaged.
So a lot of fun with thevarious moving parts and we're
(25:58):
gonna use that painting to frameevery part of the exhibit story
.
It'll really be a fun thing forus to celebrate.
We're getting the exhibit readyto open in early September so
that we're hosting a nationalconference of surveyors who have
an interest in history andthey're gonna be in Katie and
Houston and we're gonna be afield trip destination.
(26:18):
We'll come out here and we'lltalk about early surveying and
they'll be one of the firstgroups to see that exhibit.
So super exciting.
Henry McCartles a fascinatingguy.
The state library archives ownsseveral of his notebooks that
he kept information about thepaintings he was creating.
So he touches a lot ofdifferent state bases and the
(26:38):
things that he's involved withand we're really excited to be
able to use this painting in away that captivates our story.
It's set at San Felipe.
I mean his notes about thepainting say this is the land
office cabin at San Felipe.
That's what Stephen F Austin isdepicted representing there,
and he set the painting for 1824.
So it's right in the window ofthe timeline and the story we're
(26:59):
trying to tell.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, that sounds exciting, and I can't wait to
see it.
Brian, we're about to run outof town and one thing we wanna
ask everyone who's on the showis what do you know?
So, brian Macaulay, what do youknow?
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So I appreciated you giving me a little heads up on
this question and the playfulpivot you guys like to do with
it, because I do think a lot ofpeople in our field, where
museums and public history werevery collaborative, and so a lot
of us don't invest a super tonof ego and, as our wives and
friends would say, a lot of whatwe know is a bunch of useless
information.
We've dug deep in files andbooks and can spot all kinds of
(27:37):
stuff that will make people'seyes roll back in their head,
but I would tell you, from apublic history standpoint, from
the ways that we celebratehistory, what I know in 20 plus
years of working in this fieldis that, as business books will
attest in other fields too, it'snot about what you individually
do.
It's about how you find ways toempower your colleagues, your
(27:59):
resources, to accomplish thingsthat have an impact on people.
So I find all of us hope thatwe write a book someday and we
have some little claim to acorner of history that we're an
expert in and can do whatever,and that's all great and maybe
it'll happen and maybe it won'tfor most of us, but at the end
of the day, what I know is thatvisitors are motivated when you
(28:20):
can show them really cool andexciting stuff in a public
history setting, and I can'tcarry enough water to serve all
those visitors.
So I, as a manager, have to beopen-minded to the various ideas
my staff and colleagues canbring to bear.
The more we can put out there,inevitably, the better
experience my visitors have, andwe want to make this a place,
to your point earlier, thatTexans can come and be proud of
(28:43):
and hopefully walk away going.
Wow, I learned some really coolstuff I didn't know before and
I've always imagined a lot ofnew stuff about Stephen F Austin
, but I really didn't understandall the story and that kind of
thing.
So I think that's what I know.
This is very much acollaborative experience and we
feel like visitors contribute tothat.
We're a place wherestakeholders who are genetically
(29:04):
connected to some of ourhistorical figures come here all
the time, so almost a week goesby that I don't have someone
come in and I'll share with you.
We did a program recently withKen Wise, who I mentioned
earlier.
He came out into a nighttimeprogram with us and he's a big
fan of a memoirist named NoahSmithwick who had written an
(29:25):
account very late in his lifethat was often dismissed because
he's 100 years old when he'sdictating these memoirs and how
accurate can he be?
But he gets some things rightand we enjoy that.
And I was joking with Kenbefore we did the program.
I had a visitor of all thingsfrom Western Canada, from
Ontario, show up at my museum acouple of few months ago and she
(29:47):
was asking me about a veryobscure historical figure and a
story and I'll admit she stumpedthe band.
She knew stuff that I didn'tknow and we were kind of poking
around on this.
And then she told me it's astory from Smithwick.
I said, ok, well, let's look atthe source and chase this down.
And it's the craziest thing.
She had an ancestor who I wantto say was in Kentucky, who
decided he was going to we jokedlike the equivalent of flipping
(30:09):
a house to make your moneythese days.
He was going to flip a herd ofmules.
He was going to come down toTexas, get his hands on these
mules and sell them in SanAntonio and make his fame and
fortune and he ends up beingmurdered and Smithwick ends up
connected to it.
So Smithwick goes to SanAntonio, ends up buying or
taking a horse and riding itback to San Felipe.
And the guys here at San Felipewho would run the stable say,
(30:31):
hey, we just sold that horse toa guy who's gone missing.
And so there's this wholeintrigue around it.
And in this case I have thisvisitor walk in from Canada who
had grown up in the MidwestMaybe she was in Ohio, I don't
know long about that and she'stelling me this story about her
family trying to figure out whathappened to her long deceased
tangent ancestor who came toTexas and has mentioned in
(30:52):
Smithwick's book.
So we get those experiences allthe time and I always tell
visitors you're part of thecollaborative team, you're
helping us learn layers andnuance and things that we can
share with future visitors.
That's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But hey, Brian, I want to thank you so much for
joining us here on Talking TexasHistory.
Encourage people to go out andvisit the site.
It's a great site.
We're closed on.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Mondays, tuesdays Come see us any other day, 9 to
5.
Our next big event we do aNovember event themed around
Stephen F Austin, often calledthe Father of Texas Because of
our bicentennial exhibit.
This will be a fun November tocome.
It's the second Saturday inNovember and we do a free
admission.
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