AJ Vaden - CEO, Brand Builders Group - Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell

Episode Transcript
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Jason Frazell (00:00):
All right, everybody. My guest on the show
today is the one and only a jayVaden, CEO and co founder of
brand builders group. Welcome,AJ. Hey, so happy to be here.
Hey, good to see you thismorning. We are it's a lovely
morning here in New York. Itlooks like a nice day there
where you are in Nashville.
Yeah, I know. It's been youknow, Nashville has had some

(00:21):
bipolar weather this year. Youknow?

AJ Vaden (00:25):
It's like, it's one of those things. You just never
know what you're gonna get inthe winter here. It could be 70.
Knowing there might be atornado. You just never know.
But today, it's like, you know,55 and sunny. will call that a
win.

Yeah, we had the same thing here. It was two days
ago. It was 65. And then we hada snowstorm yesterday. And now
today, it's 50. Again, so it'slike a sloppy mess. It's

AJ Vaden (00:48):
just, oh, no, it's the weirdest weather. It's like we
literally had put up all of mykids winter clothes, like a week
and a half ago, because we had afull week of like low 60s, upper
60s. I was like it's here. Thesefake springs are over. And then
bam. On Monday, it was 35. I waslike, oh, no, no.

Yeah, well, we're not going to talk about the
weather the whole time. We'regonna get to know you. We could
we probably could you and Iprobably could do that too, like
extroverted people love to talk.
Alright, so AJ, I can't wait forthe audience to get to know you
today. And to me to get to knowyou better? Because I don't know
the answer to most of thesequestions, either. So here we
go. And I know you're an openbook like me. So this will be a
very open conversation. So AJ,first things first, my
icebreaker question. What'ssomething that you nerd out

(01:31):
about?

AJ Vaden (01:33):
Oh, taxes. Really?

Oh, Mike.

AJ Vaden (01:42):
A little known secret about me. Wow. It's one of those
things where, you know, for likea decade of my wife, being in
business and an entrepreneur. Ijust always assumed that, you
know, the CPAs, the accountantslike, they would take care of
everything. And when we startedour newest company,
brandbuilders group three and ahalf years ago, we just

(02:04):
naturally just kept using thesame CPA that we had been using
before. And I didn't think muchabout it. And I went to a tax
class, just for whatever weirdreason I signed up for like one
of these tax webinars differentCOVID, like the beginning of
COVID. You know, I'm in theentrepreneurs, organization, EO,
Nashville. And they wereblasting us with webinars out of

(02:26):
the wazoo. And there wassomething about this one tax
webinar held by regional firmCorporation beater that caught
my attention. I went and said,those are interesting. I wonder
if our CPA is doing thosethings. And they weren't. And
that led into a deep dark rabbithole, oh, boy, I've knee
becoming obsessed with going,what else Aren't you doing? And

(02:48):
what else is out there and whatelse?
And that was legitimately twoyears ago. And now all my
friends were like, well, I knowwho to go to if I want tax
advice, and it's not my CPA,because I've literally become
obsessed with it. I've justchanged from my old CPA and just
realized, for the first time inliterally a decade, nobody's
going to take care of my money,like I will, no one cares enough

(03:11):
about the nuances of my businessas much as I do. And so one of
the things that I've really justembraced going, I don't have to
know everything, but I need toknow enough to know what's going
on. So taxes, that's my, that'smy

this is the first time in the history of over 100
episodes of taxes was the answerto this. And I'm gonna admit it
ah, I have a little bit of shameover here. I only nerd out about
one thing about taxes, payingoff my fair share, and not a
penny more. That's the onlything I care about when it comes
to taxes.

AJ Vaden (03:42):
That is actually how taxes were built. With our
founding fathers. It's like,yeah, pay your exact fair share,
and not one cent more. And I'lltell you one thing that was a
statistic, and I don't hold meto the exact numbers give or
take, you know, whatever.

Nothing that happens here on the show, like
this becomes factual and writteninto the annals of history, this
is it.

AJ Vaden (04:04):
But there's something like, I don't know, 2000 pages
of tax code, of which only 25pages are actual, this is what
you do. And everything else isexceptions. And so don't hold me
to those exact numbers. It maynot be that crazy, but that was
one of the things I was like,I'm sorry, what, come again, and

(04:26):
just all those things of goinglike the system is built for
knowing how to get around it.
And I thought that was a reallybizarre thing and then
realizing, Oh, so many of theseCPAs that I just assumed were
the experts had not reallyinvested in their learning and
staying up to date. And I thinkone things to remember is like
tax code changes all the friggintime. So yeah, surprise.

I got so much shame. I'm a New York State
resident. We have a very hightax rate here like one of the
highest in the country. Yeah,

AJ Vaden (05:00):
Nashville, Nashville, Tennessee is always welcoming to
new revenue.

I've heard like to the tune of like 80 to 90
people per day or something likethat. Saying

AJ Vaden (05:10):
it's like every single time I meet someone. Great from
California, where are you fromCalifornia. It's like, okay,
what basically a mass exodusfrom the state of California to
Tennessee.

You're like, yeah, and, and last thing on
taxes before if we haven't lostthe entire audience who doesn't
like taxes, which I'm sure wehave in Tennessee is a knowing
Is that a no income state tax?
That's amazing.

AJ Vaden (05:31):
Yeah. It was amazing.
It's when you really think aboutit. Yeah. I've learned so much.
I've learned so much. I'veapplied so much. And still
there's so much to learn. Butyeah, single time that someone's
mentioned, lower taxes, andlike, What are you talking
about?

Yeah. And also as an entrepreneur, and also as an
entrepreneur, it's like, why notdo that? And then you can just
pass along those savings islike, Oh, I don't need to pay
you quite as much because you'renot like in New York, I think
the the rate is like eight to9%. state income tax. Like
that's an automatic raise bymoving out of here. It doesn't
include City, New York City.

AJ Vaden (06:03):
I mean, I get asked so often for taxes. Now I really I
honestly keep a running documentof these are all the new things
I learned. So when people ask,I'm just like, here's the
document, here's the document,because there's been that many
things, and no one knows aboutthem.

Like, I feel like we should if you'd be up for it,
maybe put that in the shownotes. I think the audience
would love that. AJ is tax tips.
She's a branding expert. She's aspeaker. And well, I learned a
lot. This is great.

AJ Vaden (06:32):
Advice. Yeah, exactly.
Tax Tips.

Yeah, exactly.
That's good. That's good. Allright. So we're gonna move
along, and we're gonna talkabout selling, it's inside your
comfort zone, it's outsidesomebody else's. And we're just
gonna take taxes off the table.
Because we're, you and I are theexact thing. I hate taxes. I
don't even like pulling thisstuff together. I just want to
like, magically have it happen.
We're gonna file an extensionthis year. That's how bad I am
at texts. So what's somethingelse?

AJ Vaden (06:57):
I encourage extensions? Yeah,

exactly. Yeah. So what's up? AJ? What's something
that's inside of your comfortzone that you know is outside of
somebody else's?

AJ Vaden (07:06):
Probably talking about my faith? Hmm, yeah. I'm a
believer. I'm a Christian, andbut also totally inclusive. And
I just have so many friends inthe Christian faith that don't
share it on social. I don't knowif what's the right way to do
it. And I would say I, I wasn'talways that way. Much become
going like, No, this is who Iam. This is what I believe in is

(07:29):
like, I'm not afraid to talkabout taxes or my business. I'm
not afraid. I'm not afraid tolike, brag on my kids or promote
my services. So why would I hidethis part? But I think a lot of
people, I think there's a lot oftension in the world today. And
I've gotten a little to PC, andthat we've forgotten that. Oh,
it's actually good to bedifferent. It's okay to be who

(07:50):
you are. It's okay to believedifferent things. Yeah. Just
kind of leaned in versus holdingback over the last two years.

Yeah, I've actually noticed that on your
Instagram as well. And my guessis you that has not affected
your business at all, would bemy guess, at all.

AJ Vaden (08:07):
I have I haven't noticed. Exactly. Yeah. I
haven't noticed. I think it'slike one of those things. It's
like, if, if you're so offendedby my beliefs, then we shouldn't
be working together. Exactly.
I'm not offended by yours. Butin my mind, it's just a sign of.
That's right. There's so manyother people out there that
could serve you. Well, that haveto be me.

abundance mindset, right? It's exactly
that it's like it's like, thenwe're not there. We're not, I'm
not your people. And you're not,I'm not your people. And that's
okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I wasgonna actually mention that
here. I like what you've beensharing, like, it's very, like,
feels very authentic to fromwhat I know, like, I don't know
you extremely well, but I knowyou and like, you do share a
lot. So everybody goes, share,go follow AJ, personally follow

(08:54):
brandbuilders group as well.
We're gonna talk about thatlater. But follow AJ, because
you are you're very open withall those things. It's really
cool to see.

AJ Vaden (09:01):
Yeah, thank you. And I think that's when that's the
thing too. It's like somebodysaid the other day well, and I
was I was actually talking aboutthis in my entrepreneur group
forum that I was a part of, andthere is another person in there
who's got a massive following.
And he's got a brilliant onlinebusiness model. And he's also a
Christian, he's a believer, andhe said, Yeah, but how do you

(09:22):
like mix and mingle thosethings? What do you mean? He
goes, Well, you know, I just,you know, I'm trying to like,
reconcile, how do you weavethose things in? And I just, I
thought about it for a second.
And I said, How don't you

got the idea?

AJ Vaden (09:42):
How do you really separate who you are from what
you do? And I've just foundlike, the longer I've been alive
as a human and in business, themore I try to separate those
things. It feels like I'm livinga dual life, right, quite a
friggin work. And I show up He'skind of said, well, we're gonna
throw that one out the door, andwe're just going on. Fingers

(10:04):
crossed, we'll see how it goes.

Yeah. And also, like, we're both in the personal
branding space you've been inlonger than I have. But that's
part of the personal brand spaceis the best version of you out
there is the authentic versionof you. People, like people are
gonna sense if there's somethingoff like, I know I can, I can
usually sensitivity. If thingsaren't aligned with like a
brand, then you see theirpersonal Instagram. So again,

(10:26):
kudos to you on just like beingout there with that and sharing
that with your entrepreneur.
That's a funny question. How doyou balance both? Like I don't I
just, it just is right. Like,it's not a thing. You have to
think about anything else?
sounds exhausting?

AJ Vaden (10:37):
Yeah. And it's somebody else to practice out
there. Because at because I amin the entrepreneur space, and I
am writing space. And I thinkthere's a lot of pressure to
have a very curated digitalpresence. And I don't I mine is
all over the place. I do nothave like, certain guidelines of

(10:59):
the way my images look online,you follow me, you know, this
could be a picture of me atDisney World with my kids, then
it will be a you know, somepictures of some books I'm
reading. Yeah. And it'scompletely not traded. And one
of the things that I have foundis that the harder that I tried
to make everything look pretty,the less and less it became who

(11:20):
I am. And the more I tried tomake it something, the less
authentic, it became. And I havefound like, I've just thrown out
all of those things. Like, wedon't put bumpers on our videos
anymore. I don't do like curatedgraphics. I don't do any of that
anymore. And is the highest it'sever been, of course,

people like it's so strange how we like other
humans, who have like humanthings happen like little boys
who like, go to the bathroom forthe first time or, you know,
like it didn't go not saying foryou, but like, it didn't go so
well at Disney World. Like wehad to be back for naptime at
10am. Like, I identify with thatmuch more than like, oh, this
perfectly sheen thing because weall know by now that that's not

(12:01):
Nobody's life is like, Nobody'slife is like not

AJ Vaden (12:05):
real. I mean, I think it's so important because I
think there is a mystique behindthis, you know, people talk
about how bad social media is.
And I, you know, however, youknow, I'm borderline here. It's
like, I felt like that thingwhen people want how bad guys
are. I'm like, well, guns bythemselves aren't bad people. So
stop isn't bad people withsocial media is bad. Right? And

(12:28):
it's like you make it you makeit how you want it. You? Yeah,
we are the people who make itgood or bad?

Yeah, I love that. All right. You're an open
book. So I'm excited to hearabout this. This is something I
don't know about you at all.
What's like, it's outside yourcomfort zone that you know, is
inside of somebody else's

AJ Vaden (12:51):
question, I would say this is gonna sound so weird.
Deciding on the educational pathfor my children.

Hmm, that's a good one.

AJ Vaden (13:08):
It has been, you know, I have a two and a half year old
and an almost five year old,which is very particular about
me clarifying that now. He'sout, he'll be five next week.
And everyone has so has suchstrong opinions about, you know,
is it public school? Is aprivate school, is that a
private Christian school? Is ityou know, a charter school is

(13:31):
it, whatever. And it's one ofthose things where kind of very
similar to just the socialenvironment that we're in is
like, you can't even share youropinion about education without
offending someone. And, youknow, right now, we are very
much on this homeschool hybridpath, we were on that path pre
pre pandemic. And we have a fulltime facilitator, there's five

(13:54):
family, seven kids, and they gothere three days a week, and our
plan is is to put them on thispath. Until they convince us
that a different type ofschooling is better for them. So
there'll be responsible formaking that case when to school.
And so I was sharing this wassomeone and this was a comment

(14:15):
that I received. And they said,Don't you think you're deprived
of depriving them of a normalchildhood? And I literally did
not know what to say. And that'snot like me, because I always
have something to say. I feltlike all this guilt and shame of
going, Oh, wow. Like, will theynot have normal childhood
experiences? Like, are they notgoing to go to prom or have a

(14:38):
high school football team? And,you know, as set with that for
months and months, and I've beenreally insecure about this whole
conversation of going, Wow, it'slike, as a parent, it's up to me
to go, I'm shaping this pathwayfor my kids and please, like, I
don't want to mess you up. Likeand then I realize it's like,
no, I will mess them up. It'sjust how will I mess them up and

(14:59):
I started thinking about my highschool and my junior high my
middle, middle schoolexperience. And I started
thinking, No, I don't want thatfor my kids. I really don't. I
don't want my boys tell me aboutthe locker room. I don't I don't
want them to be hiding away atprom night, you know, getting
drunk, which is what I was doingon my prom night. Like,

(15:21):
actually, I don't want thatexperience for my kids. But I
feel like every single time Ibring it up, there's judgment,
even if it's a very politejudgment. And so I would say
that's one thing I feel totallyinside this little box of I
don't know, really share it,because every time I do, I feel

(15:43):
a little like, oh, man, am I amI making the right choice? Am I
doing the right thing for mykids?

Yeah, that makes it I have two things for you on
this one. My good friend Seanhit, his kids are grown. They're
all adults. Now. They're like,just got out of college, he used
to do a thing, where he wouldsay you will create some
problems for your children justhave it just have a therapist
tip jar. And every time like,especially when they become
teenagers, and they start tocomplain. Just be like, here's

(16:09):
five bucks, throw it in thetherapist tip jar, we'll give it
to you, you're 18 you can gohire your own therapist. Like as
parents we're, we're not gonnabe perfect. And to I would say
parenting is interesting becauseyou can go to you can go to a
bookstore, go to Amazon, there'sa lots of books on parenting.
But if that actually taught youto parent, we would just go read
that and we would know how to doit. But how how you're going to
parent because you got toolittle humans who have their own

(16:30):
personalities, drivers,drainers, like the things that
they care about. And it's likethe balance, and we're in the
studio. So we have, we have asix year old and a one and a
half year old. So we have a sixyear old in kindergarten, she
goes to a Montessori school, andshe loves it. So that was our
choice. But nobody can reallytell you what to do. But people
want to tell you what to do. Butyou're like, how would you know?
Yeah, and I was, I would say theother thing. I know you do a lot

(16:51):
of mindset work too, is like,when people give you their
opinion, or they come at you.
It's always something about themthat they don't like that they
see in yourself. Like, they'renot willing to make the tough
choice, or they're not willingto do that. So I was just remind
myself of that. Thank you forsharing that. And best of luck
to you and your hubby on thatbecause that's, that's a never
ending challenge.

AJ Vaden (17:08):
No, it isn't. It's like anything, that's weird.
It's like, it never is an issueuntil I bring it up to someone
else. Or those restrictions oflike, man, it's like, I think
that's some of the problem withsome of the environment that
we're in today of going. It'slike, it's like you can't really
even share and be transparentand vulnerable without feeling
shamed or guilted about it.

That's why you make sure you have a good circle
of friends who loves you for whoyou are, and gives you what you
need in the moment instead ofgiving giving you what they
think you need in the moment.

AJ Vaden (17:40):
So true. Yeah, AJ, so

you do a lot of speaking, you do paid speaking
you do some free speaking you doa lot of speaking on branding
and sales and all those things.
But speaking for years, so fiveminutes, five minutes for five
minutes. What would you speak onand the whole world would hear
your speech? And what would youwant us to do with that? So in
other words, you know what thismeans? What would be your call
to action to us as the audience?

AJ Vaden (18:04):
Oh, man, I know exactly. What I would say is
that every like, I would sayyour personal brand, is not
about what you do. It's aboutwho you are. And I would spend
the rest of my life helpingpeople understand that your
worth has nothing to do withwhat you've done. It has
everything to do with who youare. I truly believe I think I

(18:28):
would really love to do a TEDtalk on this one day, is that
how titles are the beginning ofprofessional insecurity in
America? And it's like, we allwant to know, like, what are the
letters that come behind yourname? Right? It's like, we went
to a conference. Recently, myhusband and I who my husband's
also a speaker, as you know, andhe's really talented, very

(18:49):
gifted, and it had his name tagsaid, Rory Vaden. MBA CSP. MD S
G, and I was like,

one yesterday, who cares? Right? Like,

AJ Vaden (19:06):
literally like, okay, so I know, Masters of Business
Administration CS. Speakingprofessional. Yeah. He is like,
you know, speakers Hall of Fame.
And then I was like, put us inDSG. And it was like, million
dollar speaker group. And I waslike, introducing people. And I
was like, I know there's a lotof letters here, but at home,
this is where we're invaded dade Right.

Like that's in like, human, right. Anyway,

AJ Vaden (19:31):
ah ha moments to me.
And this was just a couple ofweeks ago. Yeah. How much
credibility into credentials andto what we've done. And it's
like, what does that have to doat all with who we are as human
beings, it's like, it's likewe've positioned ourselves for
some reason, in this era of timeof going, I only want to talk to
you if you have some, somethingI can get from you or you've

(19:54):
done something and it's like,Man, I would I would speak for
the rest of my life of goinglet's stop Talking about what we
do and what we've done, andactually just get to know people
for who they are. Because at theend of the day, it's like one of
my favorite Steve Job quotes, hesays, the beginning of like your
enlightenment is realizing thatyou're like, you are just as
smart as everyone around you.

(20:18):
You are. And I just, I feel socalled to be speaking about,
like, it is not about whatyou've done. It's about who you
are. So how do we diminish someof those feelings of inadequacy
that are tied to? Well, Ihaven't done X, Y, and Z. And I
don't have a New York Timesbestselling book, or I haven't
spoken on tons of stages, or,you know, I don't have, you

(20:41):
know, millions of followers or Idon't have a seven figure
business. And it's like, so.

So are you happy?
That's always my question. Doyou like what you're at? Yeah.
Is there more to do? Sure. Butlike, are you happy with your
life? And do you derive a lot ofjoy and fun? And whatever it is,
you use? Yeah, I can totally seedoing a TED on that, that I
think that's a really, that's agreat TED topic, by the way, cuz
that's, you know, like, theaudience, we all know, a TED,
it's all like, new, it's a newidea is let's get let's, let's

(21:08):
stop talking about expertise andstart talking about who we are
as people. Yeah, and this, Idon't know, if this is a
cultural, I think this is evenmore of a cultural thing in
certain areas of the world. Ithink it's, I almost see where
it's becoming a little lesscultural in the United States,
where I like, and this is aspace that we that, you know, we
work in together to is, like alot of personal brands, it's not

(21:30):
really about what they've done.
It's about like, who they are totheir people. Like, that's
actually what gets peopleenrolled in wanting to come and
work with them. But I'll takesome, like a career coach, for
example, has a million careercoaches, and they have a bunch
of letters, man, the name,there's nothing wrong with that.
But what if I was gonna hire acareer coach, which I don't need
one? Because I work for myselfright now? Is, um, I would, who

(21:52):
are they going to be? For me?
That's actually what I careabout. Who are they going to be
for me? To me? I could, I'mactually somebody who doesn't
care that much about expertise.
I'm much more interested in whothey're going to be.

AJ Vaden (22:03):
I think we're in the far minority for sure. And, uh,
you know, it's interesting, liketo that point. I think this is
so interesting. And I'm at ourcompany, brand builders group. I
don't I don't have any clients,like, I don't take on any. And
so here recently, I took on myvery first client in a really

(22:25):
long time, because I'm doingbusy things. And my husband,
who's my business partner askedme, he said, Why are you taking
on this client? And I said,Honestly, she makes me feel
happy as I sew stations that Ihave with this person, like I'm
taking her on, because shebrings an energy and a

(22:47):
brightness to the conversationthat it's a it's an hour of my
time, once a month, wherethere's just a joy and an
energy. And it's like, I couldcare less what this person does.
It's like, but there is a, anenergy that it brings to this
conversation. And it's like, itis my ultimate pleasure to be
able to be like, How can I helpyou? Because yeah, let's talk so

(23:09):
much.

Yeah, it's so interesting. You say this, we're
gonna move to a commercial breakin one second. But I just want
to end this section with thisAJ, I was talking to my coach
this morning specifically aboutthe concept of Maria Kondo,
who's a massive personal brandruns sparking joy, and how I
really want to be surrounded bypeople that spark my joy. And so

(23:30):
what it sounds and I think youand I are built from this
workout from the same cloth,like I'm a big fan of people
overall. And when I when I havean experience with them, I'm
willing to work with them. SoI'm, I'm sure if your first
call, you're like, I like thisperson, they're good. But it
sounds like it's who she is foryou. That has you excited, not
the fact that you can make adifference there. She's got
expertise. And you're also theperson who's bringing expertise

(23:52):
to her. Yeah, your client.
That's super cool.

AJ Vaden (23:56):
It's like there's just this energy and excitement of
like, anything. So I thinkagain, to me, it's like, if I
could speak on that for the restof my life, that's what I will
speak on is not about what youdo. It's just about who you are.

Yeah. And leave you with this too. I think
that's an important message forthe parents out there for all
their children. Because I knowit's easy to get caught in the
race of like grades andathletics, and you're going to
do all these 84,000 things andget into these schools and I'm
just who they are. Alright, AJ,thank you so much. So far. We're
gonna take a very briefcommercial break. We'll be right
back after this. Alright, AJ, weare back. What else do you want

(24:37):
us to know about you? Oh, youknow, a nice, nice, open ended
question.

AJ Vaden (24:45):
You know, you know, here's something that I would
say, I think is like, kind oflike to the conversation that we
were just having. I've beenrecently updating my speaker
kit, as you mentioned, that wego out quite a bit and we have a
copywriter. on staff atbrandbuilders Group who helps
with a lot of copy and she'sbeen editing all these things
and you know, for I've had avery similar, you know, press

(25:07):
kit with different variations aslife have changed over the
years, but 15 years, a reallylong time was just like
updating, you know, differentcredentials and you know, all
the things that typically peoplewant to know before they decide
to put you in front of theiraudience. And I was writing it
this past week, and reading overit, and I just said something
just doesn't feel right anymore.
And I said, I'm gonna take thisin a whole different shift. And

(25:31):
so the top half of my you know,bio, Paige, who is AJ Vaden. And
why she a great fit for youraudience, right? So like, the
first three paragraphs arereally just about what I've done
business building,entrepreneurship, personal
branding, all that stuff. Andthen at the end, I just wrote in
PS, all this stuff above hastalked about what I've done, but

(25:52):
you should really hire mebecause of who I am. And so
since you've asked thatquestion, what should people
know about you, here's what Iput in my speaker kit. That's
perfect. This is top of mine. Iam the mom of two wild,
adventurous, but highlyempathetic little boys. I am the
wife to an amazing husband thatI get to share my business and

(26:15):
my life with I am I'm abeliever, I am a person who
needs at least nine hours ofsleep every night. Having fun is
my hobby. And my favorite thingsto do are reading, traveling,
doing anything on the beach, andhaving good food and good wine.
So Oh, I was there things thatwow, me. And ultimately, that is

(26:38):
like, that is me. Yeah, I dothat just happens along the way.

Yeah, I love that. And as you say that I'm
like, we have so much in common.
Like I am like having fun. Is itmy hobby, having fun is actually
the thing that I'm mostcommitted to. Yeah, so it's the
thing that I look through thelens of almost everything in my
life. And so I, I think thiswill resonate with you. But what
am I saying is if it ain't funnyand doing it, oh, I love that
now. Other things like taxesthat we've already covered that

(27:11):
aren't fun, or, you know,dealing with a screaming
kindergartner getting your snowpants on in the morning. Not
fun. But overall, like as anentrepreneur, and I think this
is similar to you as anentrepreneur, I think there's a
huge lesson is like the lens offor me, it's fun. It sounds like
for you. It's fun, noteverybody. It's fun. For some
people, it's like, more likeenergy or ease, but like what's
the lens you look through tomake decisions in your business?

(27:32):
So my guess is, when you'relooking to hire people, for
brandbuilders, you're alsolooking for Yeah, that they know
how to do some stuff, but moreimportantly, what's the energy
they bring? Or is it are yougonna have fun working with
them? Like, as clients come in?
And I, you know, I do I doexecutive leadership coaching.
And as part of my business, it'slike, am I gonna enjoy spending

(27:54):
an hour with this person?

AJ Vaden (27:55):
Oh, that's a huge part of it. And I'm a huge part of
it. Having fun was not always apart of my priority list. And in
fact, I feel like the last twoyears leading up to 22 I had no
fun. Everything. Yeah, yes,everything. Just, I don't know,
just survival mode, a little bitof like, yeah, this growing the

(28:17):
business taking care of mylittles at that time. It's like
I had really, littles and therewasn't a whole lot of space for
fun. And I made fun, my word for2022. And I said, well, but I
have to have more fun. And thatstarts with having people who
have fun with it. It's like Ineed people who are fun people
who I enjoy spending time with,who bring that lightness and joy

(28:40):
and peace and ease to thingswhere everything is so hard. And
I don't want to say it's like tothat point of deciding whom to
hire today. A positive attitudeis the number one thing we look
for, for sure. Yeah, if you gota glass half full optimist, we
can find a way I cannot hire you

totally, especially in what brandbuilders
does is it's an art form. It'snot scientific, because we're,
we're dealing with people whobring as we've been talking
about their own uniqueness. Andand you see this over and over
we have we have some people thatcome in, and they're like, tell
me the right way to do it. Andit's not that simple. So if you

(29:19):
don't have a mindset of hey,like, what's the art form here?
What are the what are incoaching and call this like open
to possibility it actuallydoesn't work? Because it is
strategy. And there is aframework and process to take
people through but it's sounique.

AJ Vaden (29:33):
So much of it is it is like what works for you won't
work for me and what works forme. Next person and there is to
it. There's an art and a scienceto everything. Exactly. I fully
believe though it's like whatmatters most to any individual
who's working with a coach,consultant, strategist, whatever
you want to call the person.
It's like, I need someone who isgoing to bring me up, who remind

(29:54):
me to motivate, support me toshow me the things that I see
and that's got to be someonewho's got a creative element and
creative meaning. Like, let'sfind a way there's a waiting.
Yes, yes. Well, the sky isfalling, it's all over. There's
nothing we can do here.

We can't figure out your one word problem, we're
done. Shut it off a

AJ Vaden (30:18):
lot of that in my life and the Holy Grail. Why? When I
was like, Oh, my gosh, I've gotto cut this out. This has got
Yeah,

it's not fun.
Well, I heard of why a wiseperson once say that sometimes
you just have to do what youhave to do until you get until
you get to do what you get whatyou want to do. And you know,
who said that? It was RoryVaden. Your husband? So

AJ Vaden (30:38):
it is true. And it?
Yeah, you get to do what youwant to do.

Yeah, the last thing I'll say about what you
shared, AJ. And by the way, Ithink it's so perfect. That
asked that question, you have itin your media kit, I bet you
that will get you hired more toyou're like, yeah, these things
are great. But like, we're gonnahave fun. Like, who doesn't want
to have fun when they're seeinga speaker, unless you're like,
it's a medical thing. But eventhen I would say that you
probably want to have fun, isthe idea that you probably

(31:04):
weren't able to have is such aconnection to find, if you
didn't go through the lastcouple of years, though, like
you appreciate it a lot morenow. Because you know that like,
Hey, this is the this is likehow I think how it goes for all
of us in life is you have to gothrough those things. And I'm
sure they were great, right?
Being a mom of young kids isalso really cool. It's all cool.
But you go through that andyou're like, Oh, now he can
actually go to the bathroom byhimself. And like, oh, he can

(31:26):
tell me that he wants to Syrialike you have a new appreciation
because of what you wentthrough.

AJ Vaden (31:32):
Yes, I totally agree.
And I think a lot of it is,here's what I have found is like
the older I was getting theolder that I am getting, right?
It's like I think I'm 38. I'llturn 39 This year, and my
husband turned 40 this year. SoI've just we've started taking
ourselves way too seriously. Andwhen did we become so serious?

(31:52):
You need to do like, ooh, weneed to stop this pronto. And I
think a huge part of like, theblessing of having kids is like,
pulls us back down into thischildlike state of I love to see
the world through their eyes.
Because it's such a reminderthat everything around them is

(32:12):
increasing. Right? Yeah. Oh,yeah. I'm in the car with the
windows down is like, as good asa roller coaster for them. And
just reminds me constantly ofoh, man, do I take the little
things for granted. I take themso for granted. And I'm just it
was a huge, really focusedcommitment this year, like I'm

(32:32):
not going to, I'm not going totake my minutes for granted
anymore. I've no matter what I'mdoing or where I am, I'm not
going to take my minutes forgranted. I'm going to them,
we're gonna have fun, we'regonna make memories. I will not
be stuck in my office doingemails, because that's where I
feel like I have to be caughtup. And those were the choices I
was making. No one else wasmaking those for me. Sure. I

(32:53):
thought life coaching over thelast two years about that.

Yeah. It's like on your own your choice. Yeah,
exactly. Your

AJ Vaden (33:00):
choices. And it's like, man, I've been making the
wrong choices. I've been makingthe wrong choices. And a huge
part of that is like I'm notgonna do that anymore. And so
one of the things we did is thatmy kids, both of them are my
accountability partners. Andperfect. No one will hold me as
accountable. No, people, and oneof the commitments that I made

(33:22):
is that 530 Every day like workis done, like done beautiful.
They literally sit at my door, apractice 520 cute. Like they
start opening the door closingit open the door. So it's like
really I'm good. I'm 20 becausethere's this whole 10 minute
like, Song dance thing that wego through now. But my oldest

(33:42):
one, his name is Jasper. Heliterally comes in my office. he
stomps over here he sits in mychair every single time he goes,
Are you done? Now like I'malmost done. He goes, Nope,
you're done. And he'll walk overand shut up my computer and he
goes by 30 Mommy. Perfect. Yeah,I need that. I need that totally
in my life. So I'm hiring thekids. They're my accountability

(34:04):
part. Yeah.

One of the great things about kids and coaching
is they don't buy our stories.
Yep. Because as adults we haveso many stories and responsible
I got this and I got that andlike they're like yet they don't
care. I have a saying I have asaying that. Is any is any is
everybody's still alive. Isthere anything on fire? If the
answer to both those questionsis no, we'll figure it out.

(34:26):
We'll be alright. Yeah.

AJ Vaden (34:30):
Yeah. All right at when huge thing. That's the
other thing that I would say toyou is one of the things that
I've really changed and realizedis I don't know if this is like
everyone's hope and wish but itis mine as a parent. So for any
parents out there, but mybiggest wish is that my kids
would think I'm so cool thatthey actually want to be with

(34:52):
me. Right like that's my biggestgoal in life is I think I'm so
cool. So they actually want tohang out with me. I'll tell you
why committed to fun this year.
I haven't been very cool, huh?
I'm pretty late. You serious?
And I'm like, oh shit, my kidsare not gonna like me. They are
not going to think. And that waslike the motivating force behind

(35:13):
me shaping up and being like, ifI'm gonna be cool and someone my
kids want to be around, then Iactually need to loosen up.

Yeah, they could care less about that email that
could easily go out tomorrowmorning. That you're like, No, I
need to do it tonight. You'relike, guess what? This contract
still gonna get signed? If we doit tomorrow morning. That's
awesome. I'm learning from you.
So you're a podcast host aswell. You have a podcast with
Rory. And it's awesome. Ilisten, I actually listen your
episode with the gentleman who'sgrown his coaching practice

(35:47):
eight figures. I was veryinspired. Casey Clark. Awesome.
So this will not be abreakthrough for you is that
asked me a question that I cananswer for the audience. And I'm
gonna give you the host reinshere for a couple minutes. So
what would you like to knowabout me that I can answer for
you and everybody listening?

AJ Vaden (36:03):
Oh, I think this is so good. What do you think? is the
number one secret to having asuccessful coach client
relationship? Hmm.

Yeah. I mean, that's easy. It's you have to,
you have to trust each other.
It's actually so I'm a goingback to expertise. I'm going to
try not to sound annoying whatthis but I'm a certified coach
to the ICF. And I also trainednew coaches. I only say that
because I know that ICF corecompetencies. There's actually
like an ethical standard. Andone of the things there is

(36:34):
cultivates trust and safety. Andwhat that means is that you
trust your client when theybring something and I know
you've worked with coaches. Soyou've probably seen this, when
your client brings something youtrust that they are who they're
supposed to be in the moment andyou also trust yourself. And so
for like for me, like I've had acoach for years, I've coached
hundreds of people, it's alwaystrust that they are able to

(36:57):
bring anything they want. And Iknow that your coach can be
with, you worked with coaches,too. I'm sure that's at the end
of the day, like there are, youknow, there's these million
dollar coaches, and they'reamazing, but I'll just be
totally honest, because youasked I think a lot of its sales
and marketing and personalbranding, in a good way. But at
the end of the day, like it'sWho are you for that person? And

(37:18):
that starts with the trust thathey, AJ, you could show up
however you want today, right?
Like, hey, you just had a toughbusiness meeting. And we were
going to work on planning outyour business for the next year.
But you actually just need tocry today, or you just need
like, be like, my kids aredriving me crazy. And like have
that is such a huge thing. Italways goes back to who are you

(37:39):
for your clients? And so for me,it's it always starts with
trust. And it's also prettyapparent when that isn't there.
And it's not working? Yeah,because as a coach, we're
actually trained. And astrategist we're trained to is
like, hey, there's somethingthat's not being said here, and
being willing to go out there.
And one of my dear friends,Christine, she's a master
certified coach. He's one of thebest coaches in the world. She

(38:00):
always has this thing she'll sayto people, like, what would you
say to your client if you didn'tcare about being liked? Because
that's when you got the trust.
Because then the way we say whenwe train is like, you can always
clean it up. The cleanup may bethat, hey, we're just we're not
a good fit. We're not going towork together anymore. But but
in but with a relationship and atrust relationship, we can

(38:21):
always clean it up. And I thinkthe important lesson there is
that even more importantly,applies to marriage. And
parenting too. You can alwaysclean it up with the trust that
you both have the best ofintentions. Yeah, trust is my
long winded answer there.

AJ Vaden (38:35):
I love that white. So here's a follow up to that.
Like, yeah, what you think isthe quickest way to build trust?

Yeah, I'm for the way, though, the way I do it is
I think we have similarpersonalities. We look like
Clifton Strengths or desk likeI'm a people person. I'm an
extrovert. So the way I like tobuild trust is by asking other
people what they want to talkabout, and like really throwing
it back on them, which were alsotwo professionally trained

(39:05):
salespeople. And I know you'vedone tons of sales training, I
spent 20 years in sales. Thatwas a real shift for me from
like, what's my agenda for thismeeting? What do I want to get
out of it too? Like, Hey, Jay,what do you want to talk about?
Or? So when I have a new client,for example, or a potential
client up, the way myconversation goes is pretty
simple. Hey, what would you likeme to know about you? Or what

(39:26):
would you see in us workingtogether? Like, hey, what would
you like to know about me versuslet me tell you about me. And
that for the right people thatbuilds a lot of trust for the
people that are like, I want toknow your credentials and your
experience. Like that might notbe the thing. But one of the
core parts of the way I'm tryingto coach is client chooses.
Because where else in your life?
Do you really get to choose thatoften?

AJ Vaden (39:49):
Yeah, that's good.

Yeah, so for me, it's like and like modeling
that. It's not my agenda. It'syour space and some clients and
we we see this at Brand Builder.
Some clients are like, I needyou to tell me what to do. And
he just sent me an email withthe next steps. And some plants
are like, hey, what I reallyneed from you for today is to
listen to me for a half hour,and be that person. That's the
thing that builds trust. And weshow up. One of the other things
we say, that's a really fun wayas he show up as a five year

(40:13):
old, which is perfect for you,because he had a five year old
next week, show up as a fiveyear old, like curious, ask the
questions that you don't knowthe answers to. Or like, Hey, I
think I know the answer, but I'mnot gonna assume it. I'm just
gonna ask you that that builds alot of trust to

AJ Vaden (40:25):
Yeah, yeah. Living assumptions. Yeah. That's huge.

Unknown (40:30):
I love that question.

That's great.
Yeah, that's, that's my style.
It's not for everybody. But itworks for me. And it's, it's
more authentic to who I am thatdidn't used to be high was my
sales career is very much like,you know, in sales, it's hard.
It's like you always toe theline of like, I got this quota
to hit, I got numbers to hit, orI'm getting fired. And like, I
want to serve the client. And Iworked in cybersecurity
software, which is one of themost uninspiring things in the

(40:53):
planet. My opinion. It's like,it helps people, but it's like
behind the scenes, you don'tknow it exists. And most people
in the daily basis, don't careabout it. And like the only
people who cares, it's like, andthen a lot of sales trainings,
don't really go into likeserving the client. It's more
like, what's the thing that youcan do that will get the client
to see your way of your thing isthe top as the top solution or

(41:14):
the way to do it?

AJ Vaden (41:15):
Yeah, totally agree on that. Yeah. I think great
question. Said, I'm at one ofthe things that I've always
found, for me with buildingtrust is, and availability and
responsiveness. Yeah, totally.
It's like a huge part of, youknow, having a successful client
relationship. It's just having arelationship. And those aren't

(41:36):
built in one hour incrementsevery 30 days. That's just not
how it works. Well. It's like,you gotta have more touch
points. And that's availabilityand responsiveness. paid or not.
That's how we build Right?
Right. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that. Yeah. So I think the last
thing I'll as you wrap this up,and then I'm going to rip back
the microphone for you, becauseyou're probably a better podcast
those to me. I'm AJ, AJ, AJ isgood at providing shade from
your own taxes. And podcasting.
The The other thing too, is toset the intention upfront, hey,
what would have this engagementbe mutually beneficial for so

(42:13):
what would have this engagementbe successful? And let the
client name that, but also knowthat that's not set in stone?

AJ Vaden (42:20):
Yeah, things change.
People, businesses

change. I have clients. I've worked with
clients that worked at, youknow, that worked at Facebook,
and then they decided to dotheir own thing. So of course,
our engagement changed, right?
Because they're like, wait, Iused to want to get promoted to
be a manager. And now I'mstarting a startup like, so like
being flexible. That's anotheranother big part of trust is
like, Hey, where are we? Whereare we at with this? And always,
and always, like calibrating onlike, how's it going? But also,

(42:44):
looking at your clients? Andyou're like you said, You've
done a lot of life coach andgood life coaches, will they
won't buy your story? Or thoughthey'll spot that, like, is this
ages fear talking? Or is thisactually what you want? And
getting coached around that? I'msure you've had lots of
conversations like that, becauseI know I have.

AJ Vaden (43:02):
Yeah, but it's like, it takes somebody with a lot of,
you know, courage to like pointthat out. Most people just
ignore it and keep going.
Because that that can beawkward.

Yeah, yeah. So what for those who are
interested in, in coaching orhaven't worked with a coach, one
of the things that I like to sayabout a coach, that's so cool,
and I'm somebody who has acoach, as well as it's really
the only place that I have,besides maybe a therapist that
they all they care about is likestanding for you for what you
say you want. Because everybodyelse has an agenda for it

(43:34):
spouses, your kids, yourclients, your accountant,
everybody else has an agenda foryou whether you know, and it's
from service, hopefully. Butlike, listen, everybody wants
something from us almost all thetime. A good coach should just
want you to get value and getwhat you say you want. So thank
you, AJ, that was a really coolquestion that I've never
answered. Oh, okay, there it is.
There it is. I get Yeah, saywhat's the thing that you're

(43:58):
most proud

AJ Vaden (43:59):
of? Oh, wow. You see my kids?

Yeah, I had a feeling that was gonna be the
answer here.

AJ Vaden (44:06):
I mean, that's just like, I know, that's such a
cliche mom thing to say. But Itruly, I was one of those
people. Up until pretty much wedecided we wanted kids was
pretty sure I wouldn't havekids. I was not a person who was
like, Oh, I can't wait to be amom. I'm like, pretty sure I'm
not built for that. And, youknow, my husband wants

to do Yeah, other things to do businesses to run.

AJ Vaden (44:29):
And we were traveling all over and never home like our
house was just basically a giantstorage unit. And we were
married for five years. And wesaid once we're married for five
years, and we got married laterin life, and we said once we
were married five years we'lltalk about and I remember
specifically, we're on thisanniversary trip and Bora Bora.
And he said so and I'm like no,not ready. Just when I'm not

(44:51):
ready. And then a year and ahalf later, my brother my older
brother had their first childand I remember holding him his
name is Jamison for the firsttime and I said, Yeah, I'm going
to need this, I'm gonna needthis. But it wasn't until that
moment. So you know, we weremarried seven years when we had

(45:12):
our first child. And I net like,I, to me, motherhood is the best
thing that I never knew existed,right? The hardest, most
exhausting, but exhilarating,and awe inspiring thing that I
just I never knew existed. Andit's like, it's dirty. And it's

(45:34):
messy. And it's complicated. Andit's beautiful. And the fact
that we survived parenthood, Itotally survive. And like, I
just, there's so much that it'slike, this is pretty amazing.
When you think about just thetrue essence of bringing these
little humans into the world andthen getting to be a part of

(45:56):
shaping who they are. It's ait's the most definitely the
biggest responsibility of myentire life. And it's the one
that needs most of my time. Andif I'm not hyper sensitive to
that, it so often is the thingthat gets neglected. Yeah. And
so, everyday pull of going like,Yes, I'm running a business. But
at the end of the day, I've gottwo lives that I am most right

(46:20):
most well positioned to shape inthis life and are the two people
that are my children. I lovethat. I do well here. Everything
else will be okay. Yeah. Youknow, like, same thing with my
husband, like one of the one ofour mottos and our houses. As
long as husband and wife arehappy the whole family is happy.
Oh, God.

Yes. That's rule number one in a marriage,
family.

AJ Vaden (46:43):
Marriage first family.
Yeah. But at the same time, it'slike what I'm most proud of as
my kids, but it's a marriage.
Family of going happy husbandand wife will make a happy
family all day long.

Totally. I, I was, um, I was actually in a
training with Rory and he toldthe story about I think it was
Jasper, maybe it was the youngerone with the

AJ Vaden (47:04):
poop on the wall. Oh, my gosh, that was Leah.

Leah. Yes, the younger one. And I was thinking
as you were talking, I wasthinking like, if you can be
with the idea of wiping humanexcrement off your son's wall,
like, all the problems in yourbusiness don't seem like that
big a deal. At least that's howit is. For me. I'm like, Yeah,
this morning, I spent timewiping our one and a half year
old. blowout. And so like aclient's not so happy today, I

(47:30):
can deal with that, like

AJ Vaden (47:34):
sees right now.
Exactly. Instagram, it wasaround the same time that
happened like a month ago. Andit had never happened to us
before. But my two year olddiscovered how to take his pull
up off and he's potty training.
And the next one is pull up. Andhe didn't want to be in it. And
so he just took it off. And yes,no, and it was around the same

(47:57):
time. And I saw this post onInstagram that said peeing on a
stick and keeping it. It's justone of the first disgusting
things that you'll do as aparent. And our pregnancy test
was like, we have to keep thisforever. But we are on the stick
keeping it. It's the first manydisgusting things that you'll do
as a parent.

Oh, yeah. It's hilarious. That's awesome.
Alright, so we got about fiveminutes left. So I'm gonna I got
a couple more questions for ifyou still got a few more minutes
for us, which I think you do. SoAJ, what's something that you're
afraid might actually be trueabout you?

AJ Vaden (48:30):
I'm OCD and controlling. Great.

And here comes the therapy question. So what do
you do to compensate for that?

AJ Vaden (48:38):
Oh, man, I'm trying to loosen up and have more fun.

Like, I'm committed to fun, because I'm
OCD and I'm controlling. I loveit. I like a picture, you're
like, I'm OCD and I'mcontrolling. So I'm going to
have more fun to make sure.
That's great. That's great.
Well, it's good to wreck, butit's good to recognize that
about yourself, and then belike, hey, what would be the
thing that would shift thatthat's also going to be aligned

(49:04):
with who you are? Anyway,there's a cool lesson there.
Because there's a lot of waysyou know, like some and this is
an again, a coaching thing islike, wonder late ourselves as
things to fix, because that'salso probably why you're so good
at what you do. So it's not abit and probably OCD is just a
context, right? It doesn't.
Alright, you're probably OCDcompared to me, but compared to
like somebody else, you may belike the most free flowing
person ever. So yeah, yeah, it'ssolid context. But it's like the

(49:27):
idea that you get to choose acommitment that might work on
that, but also let but also likewhat you're saying is like,
that's also what makes youunique, is that but that's the
thing with control specificallyis like the balance of hey, I
need to control this and likethe art I think, is the art form
as we have as entrepreneurs orjust as business people, or
parents, as we're talking a lotabout parenting is where to and

(49:49):
I call this the where do i Wheredo I let the Where do I kill
them with kindness and where doI put my foot in their throat?

AJ Vaden (50:00):
It's a balancing act, right? That's all a balancing
act, things that I've learned.
It's like every story has acorresponding weakness. And
every weakness has acorresponding strength and like
to that it's like, yeah, a hugepart of our success is because
I'm, like, very driven, there isa lot of control, because I'm
like, I'm going to do it, I'mgoing to do it, I'm gonna do it,
right. But that's alsoexhausting. It's like, yeah,
that whole feeling of like, Ihave to be the one to do it.

(50:22):
That's not true. Like, those arelies. That's not true. That's
not real. That's my owninsecurity and my own, you know,
things coming up. And so I thinka huge part of this is like,
what I've realized is that themore fun I have, the more fun I
want to

Unknown (50:39):
have totally siddik.
Yes, one of those

AJ Vaden (50:43):
things where it's like, if I just if I'm less
serious, and I have more fun,and I infuse more fun into my
day, and fun, looks different,right? Every single day, it's
not like I'm going surfing orgoing on a four wheeling
adventure every day. It's like,it's like, how do I force right?
How do I force some fun into mylife to loosen me up into let me

(51:03):
let go, so that I don't havethis tendency of being
controlling? Because Idefinitely know that control is
like probably like that. Onething that appears to be true
that really Yes, yeah, well, the

other thing I'll say about that is, the control
has gotten you to a pretty darngood point in your life. It's
not like it hasn't worked foryou. So your brain is gonna go,
Hey, this is worked. Yeah, hadsome success started a company
done some other stuff. So yeah,it's like learning to own it
all. So AJ, where can we findyou? How can people connect with

(51:37):
you?

AJ Vaden (51:38):
Yeah, two ways. If you want to just connect a human to
human person to person, be apart of my everyday life, I
would go to Instagram. My handleis a jay underscore Vaden with a
V like Victor, but if you wantto learn from me, I would say go
check out the influentialpersonal brand podcast, where

(51:58):
you're going to learn and getthe nitty gritty details on
marketing, personal branding,entrepreneurship, but then
Instagram fuse, want to be apart of my life. That's where
you need to go.

Yeah, see Cute, cute kids.

AJ Vaden (52:11):
Very young kids.

You got you got a lot of stat strategy tactics
around personal branding, thenyou got cute kids, and another
and other things. It's perfect.
AJ, thank you so much for beingon today. It has been awesome to
have you on and have theaudience get to know you. And we
have a tradition on the showthat my guests always leave us
with some words of wisdom, andthey just need to be short and
sweet. And this is going toresonate for you. This should be

(52:33):
on an Instagram post. And thisshould be the post itself not
the text underneath. So what doyou got for us?

AJ Vaden (52:39):
Yeah, it'll be super, super sweet is that I've always
find that your comfort willalways hold you back from your
calling. So get uncomfortable.

I love that AJ, thank you so much. Best of luck
to you and Rory, the kiddos.

Unknown (52:55):
Thanks

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AJ Vaden - CEO, Brand Builders Group

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}AJ Vaden - CEO, Brand Builders Group