August 21, 2024 • 40 mins
Jason and Bryce talk about Bryce's pivot from a traditional family owned business to a software company, the opportunities and perils of running the company in a slow moving industry and why it's important to never accept the status quo.
"I've always been the type of person wired to, when I see a problem, I want to find a solution for it."
Bryce Wuori, MPM (Co-founder and CEO of Pavewise) is an expert in Asphalt Paving and believes technology is the future key to success within the Infrastructure Industry. Bryce has been recognized nationally as an asphalt expert who is currently generating large amounts of success by integrating project variables within Asphalt Paving quality procedures to increase project revenues.
Pavewise is a web-based software that maximizes productivity and improves project quality resulting in increased incentives and profits for paving contractors. Variables such as weather, project specifications and equipment operations impact every paving project. By efficiently managing project variables and integrating paving solutions, Pavewise develops a strategy for success for every paving project.
http://www.pavewisepro.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Frazell (00:12):
Good morning, everybody.
My guest on the podcast today isBryce Worre.
Bryce is the founder and the CEOof PaveWise, as well as a whole
variety of other things.
I've gotten to know him just alittle bit by the time we had a
chance to connect before wepress record here today.
Bryce, welcome.
Good morning.
It is the morning both where Iam and where you are.
Bryce, where are you joining usfrom today?
Bryce Wuori (00:33):
I'm joining from Bismarck, North Dakota.
Jason Frazell (00:36):
Bismarck, North Dakota.
I think I told you offline.
I'm originally from Minnesota,so we were neighbors at one
time.
If you're from North Dakota, nolonger neighbors.
I'm here in the East Coast, butit is morning.
We're recording this in on aThursday.
It is May 2nd, which is hard tobelieve it's May 2nd.
And Bryce, I want to thank youfor making the time to be with
us today.
As you all are going to findout, this is your prime time for
(00:59):
the sort of work that you alldo.
This is when the projects kickoff.
This is when you all are at yourbusiest.
So I really appreciate youmaking the time for us today to
share your entrepreneurialjourney.
So Bryce, first things first,let's talk a little bit about
PaveWise and what that is sopeople can kind of set the
context here, and then we'll goback and just have you share
(01:19):
anything else you'd like us toknow about you before we get
into the details.
So what, what is PaveWise?
Bryce Wuori (01:26):
PaveWise.
PaveWise is a construction techsoftware progressive web app
that we, actually, I developed.
I own a construction company andI, I developed it as a way to
manage my crews.
It tracks on site weather.
You can share plans.
It's a, it's a centralizedplatform for data, really.
Shots of communication,schedules permits, all that.
(01:48):
And, We built it really for the,in mind for the boots on the
ground individuals, so thepeople in the field running a
company, I recognized like in myown practices, like some of the
biggest impacts were weather andmaking our schedule to kind of
fit where we can workefficiently and, Produce the
highest quality of work.
(02:09):
So that was a big, importantthing.
And then just communicating fromthe office to the field was
always kind of an issue.
So I wanted to create a waydigitally to like, I got a new
permit.
I've got a new set of plans.
How do I get this to my foreman,my people in the field without
having to drive out or, youknow, call them or email, we get
a hundred emails a day.
(02:31):
So it's really just a, and it'san efficiency tool that's easy
to use for everybody inconstruction.
Jason Frazell (02:37):
Very cool.
Let's go back a little bit andtalk about your history, your
background, a little bit aboutyour, your life in construction.
So you had mentioned to me,you're a third generation in
this business.
So a family, family ownedbusiness thing.
So I think, so I think the, oneof the questions that I have is
(03:00):
when you say you created thesoftware, what is it?
Did you do that yourself?
Did you hire somebody to do it?
Are you, are you naturally atechnology person who, and I'm
really interested in this topicbecause as a third generation
person in the family business,did you go, Hey, I have a, I
have a real efficient affinityfor tech and learn how to do it?
(03:20):
Or like, how does that go?
Because I could see where it'dbe really easy to just keep
doing things kind of the sameway.
In a business that's thirdgeneration, which means by
design, it's been sustainableand it's been doing good work
for a long time.
Bryce Wuori (03:32):
Yeah.
So, I mean, what I did reallywas these things were being
tracked.
I mean, we were tracking thesein what I'd consider old school
methods of pen paper, trying tobuild out schedules and
modifying them with sticky notesand, and all those types of
things, I've always been thetype of person wired to, when I
(03:53):
see a problem, I want to find asolution for it.
And, and in construction, I'vealways used technology as a way
to, to improve those types ofthings, whether it's in the
field with machine control tohelp the operator perform better
and things like that.
So I've always been a technologyadvocate for the industry.
(04:14):
And that's where I reallystarted to push a lot of these
things.
And I.
I knew the variables.
I was tracking them.
I created the first, I call itthe Frankenstein program because
it literally was just Excel withformulas.
And I knew that these, theseimpacts were causing these kind
of cause and effects things.
(04:35):
But the first generation beta ofit was, I actually hired a
software company to create moreof a user friendly version of it
and do the calculationsmanually.
And that's where it really kindof took off was we'd run 27
projects through it and had highsuccess.
We seen the value in it andthat's where it started to kind
of naturally unfold into otherpeople.
(04:58):
We noticed other people in theindustry were having a lot of
these same effects and problemsand, and we wanted to scale out
and help them.
And it, and that's kind of.
Where we're at today we're,we're a construction tech
company.
We sold this, we sold theconstruction company last year.
We're completely software now.
And we just keep building, keepbuilding things to automate and
help.
People in the field, just bemore efficient and get the data
(05:21):
to make good decisions, toimprove profits, efficiency,
life, everything.
Jason Frazell (05:27):
Yeah.
So growing up, I would, I wouldimagine that you were, you were
exposed to the business early,the family business.
I learned a lot about it.
If you think back to me, whenyou first started to do some
work or, you know, just out onsites with the family and the
company, did you ever envisionnot having a construction
(05:48):
company and being a technologycompany?
Bryce Wuori (05:51):
I did not envision ever being just a software
company.
Like five, six years ago, ifsomebody would have brought that
to me and told me that like as aprofit or something, I would
have laughed at him becauseconstruction is all I never
know.
And, and I mean, it's what Ireally do.
That's one of my biggeststruggles, honestly, is I love
running equipment.
(06:11):
I love being on projects.
So.
I've had to learn to let go ofsome of the physical hand, I
want to go run equipment, I wantto go do this and transferring
that into more of a technicalstandpoint of this is technology
can do this for you kind ofmindset and but no, I definitely
never imagined I'd own aconstruction tech software
(06:33):
company.
Jason Frazell (06:34):
Yeah, and I asked this, Bryce, because it's so
fascinating to me as somebodywho didn't come from a
generational family businessthat you have this legacy for so
long of the ways of doing thingsand making money and providing
for the family and, you know,hopefully building some profit.
And.
Creating a lifestyle, and thenall of a sudden you go, Oh,
let's actually go and dosomething different that's
(06:56):
tangentially related, but notthe thing that was the family
business.
So, and you had mentioned thisearlier, want to dig a little
bit more about the reason youinitially did this, the reason
Pavewise, I don't even know ifit was called, probably wasn't
even called Pavewise, it'sprobably just some, like I said,
it was a spreadsheet.
You did it to solve your ownproblems.
And realized if you in theconstruction industry had these
(07:22):
problems, there's probably tonsof other companies just like you
who have the exact sameproblems.
It's an industry that's beenaround arguably forever.
And do you remember, do youremember the moment when you
realized you had a product thatyou could scale outside?
You had something that you couldactually go and give and
(07:43):
actually make money selling toother companies like yours.
About when you were doingconstruction?
Bryce Wuori (07:50):
Yeah, I do actually remember, I, when it got to the
point where I realized like,Hey, we might have something
here that can help other people,and I, I actually did some
research.
I looked for companies, softwarecompanies that were doing things
similar couldn't find anything.
Went down to one of the biggestconstruction expos con Expo down
(08:11):
in Las Vegas.
And walked and looked athundreds of software companies,
what they offer, talk to themand things.
And I'm just like, ah, it'sjust, there's nothing, there's
nothing here.
That's really doing what we'redoing with the, you know, boots
on the ground, individualsintegrating in weather impacts
to specifications and thingslike that.
And I think we're, you know, Ithink we're on to something
(08:32):
different here and, and we'restill something very different
because we don't, we're not aproject management software.
We're, we're like a riskmanagement solutions boat on the
ground software that integratesall these different things in
there and we're still veryunique.
We don't even know what wereally consider ourselves as
like putting us in a bucket ofwhat are we and it's It's
(08:54):
evolving all the time becausereally what we do is we listen
to our customers and Hey, we gotthis problem.
Well, let's see how we can finda solution for it using
technology.
So, but that was the time it wasConExpo about four years ago.
I think it was 2019.
And I, I just, I spent two dayswalking around looking at
(09:15):
software companies, talking withpeople and just.
That was really my test to seelike, well, is there, is there,
is there something out here?
Are we wasting our time?
Is this existing?
We have something.
And I think we can really helpthe industry with this.
Jason Frazell (09:30):
Yeah.
I think there's a, there's areally good lesson in there for,
for.
Tech, tech founders, a lot oftimes they think they have the
greatest thing and then do someresearch, but don't go and do
enough research to find out thatthere's enough things that are
so either they're, they're veryclosely related that, that a
company with bigger scale couldjust actually decide to do it.
(09:51):
And they could like.
Put some engineering resourcesto it and like either do it
quickly or that there's alreadya market leader that does it
really well and you're justfighting a huge uphill battle.
I really liked the idea of thatactually walking around trade
shows, going, Hey, what are,what are other people doing in
this space?
Are they doing anything in thisspace?
How are we the same?
How are we different in learningwhat works and what doesn't?
That's really cool.
(10:12):
Let's talk about PaveWise.
So specifically, well, let'stalk about the name PaveWise.
What, what is I have, I have anassumption about that.
I happen to know what you alldo, but let's, let's talk about
what you all, let's talk aboutwhat you actually do inside of
the massive constructionindustry.
Bryce Wuori (10:32):
Yeah.
The, the software itself, youknow, the name I came up with
just because it's like, we'regiving the biggest thing that
we're doing is giving.
Proactive decisions of this iswhat's going to impact your
project.
And a lot of it's around thingsyou can't control.
Right.
I mean, like today in where I'msitting right now, we're going
(10:52):
to get a half an inch to inch ofrain.
I can't control that.
And that's going to impact anyproject that's in this.
vicinity of this rain right nowvery heavily.
So, so what we try to do isidentify like, this is what
you're going to be impactedwith.
And this is how it's going toimpact your schedule.
We try to decrease like idletime because that costs time and
(11:15):
money a lot for companies.
Like if you know you're notgoing to work today, why, why
send a crew out there and sitand wait for it to stop raining
when it's not going to, right.
Or, or the quality of work isthe biggest thing, like it.
We don't have the rightconditions to do the work.
We have specifications that tellus like, this is the
(11:37):
temperatures you need.
This is you know, the moisturethat you need.
This is how we want this built.
And if a lot of times, if youdon't have the right conditions,
you're not supposed to do thework anyways, because the
quality of the work goes down.
So that decreases a lot of the,the payment factor and things
like that.
And, you know, even thepotential to do.
What am I going to remove thisbecause it failed those types of
(11:59):
things.
So we're really, we're reallytrying to give wise decisions
and bring forward this data,right?
This data that people can lookat and be like, Oh, wow.
I got three days of rain comingup on this project.
I want to move this crew over toproject.
where it's sunny and beautifulto help them get caught up.
So we're not sitting around idleand, and just kind of using all
(12:22):
that data to, to really identifywhere and when can I work the
most efficient at the time Ihave.
Jason Frazell (12:28):
Yeah.
I always like to ask people insoftware, what do people do if
they're not using a solutionlike PaveWise, what that, that
scenario, what, what'shappening.
Without technology, how it's,how it's been done in the past.
Bryce Wuori (12:42):
Weather channel and papered pen, or you know what,
honestly, I see this industry doa lot of, and it, and I'm, I
used to do this too.
It's just like, well, let'sjust, we're reactive.
Let's like, let's go and seewhat happens.
Well.
The data is there to tell uswhat's going to happen.
It's not going to change.
So, you know, I, I used to justlike, well, send a crew out and
(13:04):
let's just see what, you know,see if you can get anything done
there today.
And I just paid the crew 12hours to sit around in, in,
when, when I could have movedthem somewhere else or brought
them to the shop to domaintenance or done this or
that.
So quite honestly, we see ourbiggest competitor a lot in that
space is you know, weather appsand maybe some.
(13:25):
Scheduling tools that theyintegrate a little.
And that's what I was doing,honestly, I was taking multiple,
I was taking multiple weatherapps, Google maps and dropping a
pin and then taking the datafrom multiple weather apps and
trying to figure out how muchthis, the weather in the next 30
days was going to affect myschedule on this project.
And what I needed to do to stayin compliance for that.
(13:48):
Cause that's the other thingthat's.
Really important this industryis we have contracts.
We have deadlines to get thiswork done.
Jason Frazell (13:54):
Sure
Bryce Wuori (13:55):
If you don't get that work done in that time
frame What happens is you startgetting penalized every day
after that contract date It'sit's called liquidated damages
and a lot of times that weatheris what causes it more than
anything so identifying how muchthat weather is going to impact
you to get to that completiondate and understand cause and
effect of that is very importantbecause that can cost five, 10,
(14:17):
20, 000 a day after thecompletion date.
And that, that can blow yourprofits right out of, you know,
on any project.
So,
Jason Frazell (14:25):
yeah.
Well, the other thing, Bryce,And I, you and I were talking, I
know almost nothing about thisindustry.
One of the reasons I lovetalking to you is learning about
something that I obviously seeall the time, but don't
understand the details.
The other thing that strikes meabout this is a competitive
advantage of using somethinglike PaveWise.
Is potentially you're moreaccurate in your bidding, like
(14:48):
potentially even be able to bida little bit lower, knowing that
like what you just said, you'regoing to optimize, you're going
to optimize the value.
You're not going to have a crewsitting out there because at the
end of the day, the client paysfor that at the end of the day,
like if there's overrun built orthere's, I don't know what you
call it, but I think it'soverrun.
It's built into the contract.
Well, potentially you can take afew days off the bid, or if you
say it's going to take, youknow, six months, maybe it's
(15:10):
five and a half months knowingThat you're going to keep that
crew efficiently working asopposed to, well, Mr.
Customer, I don't know if thecustomer, like the department of
transportation is, well, youknow what you're paying, you're
paying my crew to stand outthere under umbrellas or sit in
their trucks.
And they're getting paid.
Bryce Wuori (15:27):
Absolutely.
And I mean, so yeah, we do, andit really does open the eyes of
a lot of our new users of like,this is how many days your
average, just how many days youlost, or this was your average
efficiency on this project fromweather impact so that you can
go forward and kind of, youknow, understand, well maybe I'm
not putting enough lost age inand things like that.
And as far as the DOT'sperspective or any owner, the
(15:49):
way I explain it to them islike, you wouldn't pay someone
to paint your house in the rain.
Why would, why would you wantyour road paved in the rain or
in the conditions where youknow, it could prematurely fail
or not produce the highestamount of quality.
So.
This is like a multi facet toolthat yeah, we built for
contractors, but in reality whatwe're doing is giving the
(16:11):
contractors more decisions toproduce a higher quality product
that they get paid more for,that then in turn the owner or
the state gets a better qualityproject or product that lasts
longer.
That pushes our tax dollars toother infrastructure and, and
we're not getting those potholesand those failing conditions
that happen because of, ofcertain, you know what I mean?
(16:33):
It's just like this.
It's like an evolution of, ofthings and, and, and that's
important because we're, our taxdollars are dwindling and we got
to cover more roads and, and,and build better roads with the
money we have, so.
Jason Frazell (16:48):
Also, just, if we just call a spade a spade.
In most states, not generallyeverybody's favorite is the DOT.
That's not generally the thingpeople like, I love the
Minnesota DOT or the New YorkDOT.
And like a lot of times, I thinkthey're just doing good work and
they're, they're at the mercy ofweather things.
And that As a consumer of thoseand as a taxpayer, it ends up
(17:08):
being like, Oh, it's notefficient, but what's actually
just happening is it'sinefficient because of the
systems and the operational partof it, not necessarily when
they're out there doing the goodwork.
I think like as a, as ataxpayer, that's, that's also
the ton of value.
Bryce Wuori (17:21):
Absolutely.
A ton of value.
And I mean, that's the ultimategoal that we have too, with this
is like, Just to build bettermore efficient infrastructure
with data using data to buildbetter infrastructure So, I mean
that's that's our ultimate goal.
We work with DOTs.
We work with with contractorsanybody who wants to just be
(17:43):
more efficient and Honestly,what's really cool too is this
tool is a mediator between DOTsand contractors, right?
Jason Frazell (17:51):
Mm hmm
Bryce Wuori (17:52):
We have our ground truth system, which is a hundred
percent certified weatherstation that we can put on site
with 11 sensors ran off thesolar that tracks weather
condition every 15 minutes.
So if there's any complianceissues between the contractor
and the state being like, well,we don't have temperatures to
pave, we have a system therethat pretty much tells you
(18:12):
exactly what the temperature is,what the conditions were at.
Any second or any minute of thatproject and we can use it as a
tool.
So there's no litigation orpointing fingers that, well, you
didn't do this in the rightconditions.
You didn't do this.
And everybody's in agreeanceinstead of, you know, I've, I've
been part of these projectswhere we pick up a phone app and
(18:33):
I got AccuWeather and it says,it's.
It's 35 degrees and then I pickup another one and it says it's
32 degrees.
We sit and wait because nobodycan come into agreeance, we're
shooting with these temp gunsand everything and it's like, we
just lost an hour where we couldhave just worked or we shouldn't
have worked at this time andthere was no, no like waiting
(18:54):
for someone to make a decision.
This thing here is like aintermediate, like a, almost
like a an inspector on site, aweather inspector telling you
when you can't, can, when youcan't work, when you should, all
that, like at a hundred percentaccuracy.
So.
Jason Frazell (19:07):
Yeah.
Why not?
I want to talk about two otherthings with you during this
interview.
The first one is productadoption.
In other words, changemanagement, because anytime I
talk to anybody in technology,who's doing something different
than how it's been done for along time, I'm so curious,
Bryce, how you see this, whereyou say, Hey, remember how it
(19:28):
used to be paper, post it notes.
We've been doing it this way,maybe even a spreadsheet with a,
like a, like a tough book orsomething, by the way, we're
doing things differently.
How do you address that?
And like, let's start with yourown company when you started
doing this, because if we couldjust call it out, people don't
like change generally.
Because it requires, yeah, sohow do you, like, how do you do
(19:48):
that in a way that empowerspeople to want to use it?
And then now that you are asoftware company, you have a
whole slew of people that you goand sell this to because the
owner goes, this is brilliant.
And then as soon as it gets tothe people on the field, they
go, ah, I don't want to do, Idon't want to learn a new thing.
I don't want to do it.
So how do you, how do you alladdress that as a leader?
Bryce Wuori (20:09):
Yeah.
Change is hard.
I mean, honestly, that's one ofthe biggest things that we, we
struggle with right now is weknow this tool can help
companies be more profitable, bemore efficient collect the data
to prove whatever they need.
And the change.
How we approach it, honestly,what's been working the best is
(20:30):
if we can get it into the handsof the right people, like a
champion that is struggling, ifwe, like, time is very
important, so when we can provethat we can save that operation,
It's manager two hours a day byautomating all the data that
comes through that they don'thave to drive out on a site
that's three hours away to checka rain gauge, to see how much
(20:52):
rain they got to do federalcompliance inspections for
weather that can sit in theiroffice and do that like that is
very important.
And that's one of the uniquethings that we have going on is
we, a lot of software,especially in construction tech
is built for the office forbidding for scheduling for like
that part of the world and like.
What we always, what I alwayspromote is like you can bid and
(21:15):
make the most perfect project onpaper in the office work, but
really where
Jason Frazell (21:19):
the bread and
Bryce Wuori (21:20):
butter is made is in the field, the people
building it.
So we take a little differentapproach.
I mean, we do talk to, you know,corporate people up in the
office and stuff, but they don'tstruggle with the pains that
we're solving.
So they can't really relate allthe time to like we can save you
your operations manager twohours a day by doing this while
that's their job.
(21:40):
Right.
But that that's what the waythey see it.
We have to go to approach themto be that we just saved a
contractor 40, 000 by helpingthem prove compliance on a
project that talks to them.
But.
Really getting it into theirhands.
I mean, we've already put a lotinto this software where we just
listen to the users.
And like, we've had people inthe field be like, Hey, I love
(22:02):
that I can do this, but I don'twant to manage these files.
I don't want to have to go takea picture or upload this and put
it into this project file.
So we took that to our dev teamand they're like, We can build
an AI tool that literallymanages the files for them based
off the tag files from thepictures, from where all this,
and they did that in a depthcycle.
(22:23):
And now our software has a toolcalled Pat Papewise, which is an
AI tool.
You drop in a file, it literallywill put it into the right
project, right folder for you.
So it eliminated that frictionof we don't want to do this part
of it.
And, and now, you know, Andkeeping it simple, like that is
one of our biggest mottos islike 90 percent of our users are
(22:46):
on a phone.
They're using this like aweather app.
So we've made it so like, it'svery simple.
It takes 20 minutes, 30 minutesfor us to sit down with somebody
in the field and be like, allright, let's download this.
Here's how you navigate it.
If you want to take a picture,if you want to add data, boom,
done.
It's, it's not overlycomplicated.
(23:06):
And.
I mean, like we have to showthem how to use it and how it
benefits them in order for themto see the use and to use it
properly.
So we really put a lot of timeinto when we get a customer, we
make sure.
We check in with them, we, wetrain them, we make sure that
(23:28):
everything's working okay and wedon't want to churn them, right?
We don't want them to, to leavebecause they're not getting the
right training to use it.
So we've really concentrated on,on training and just keeping it
simple and yeah, change is superhard and just grinding.
It's going to take like five toseven touches we found in this
(23:49):
industry to even get somebody tothink about what you're trying
to do.
So it's not easy, but that's howwe've been approaching it.
Jason Frazell (23:59):
Yeah.
Thanks, Bryce.
Yeah.
I imagine just change managementin any industry is hard.
Or in an inside any company ishard, especially in my past
career.
I did a lot of things where we'dintroduce new technology.
People just don't like thechange, even if it's so
beneficial for them, even to belike, Hey, it saves you time.
It saves you money.
Like the person who saves money.
They like that, but Oh, it savesyou time.
(24:21):
It makes your job easier.
I have to do this to go.
Yeah, but it's something new Ihave to think about and do.
It's like a, it's like a newthing I have to think about in
my head and I don't want to dothat.
Bryce Wuori (24:28):
Yeah.
It's really, it's really cooltoo about that too is like, so I
forgot to mention like theyounger generation, all for it.
They want it.
Jason Frazell (24:35):
They
Bryce Wuori (24:37):
don't want to fill out paperwork and, and do like
my logs on this journal in abook.
I want to do it somewheredigitally.
Cause I gotta, Go hand this inat the office or take a picture
of it and email it or dowhatever anyway.
So it's really unique too, thatthe younger generation grabs
onto this pretty fast and pushesit pretty hard in the, in the,
the older generation, it takes alittle bit more, but they
(25:00):
eventually kind of, kind of seethe benefit in it as well.
Jason Frazell (25:04):
I want to wrap today and get your perspective
and experience around Leadershipand how I want to, first of all,
talk about your experiencemoving from an industry that's
been around forever hasarguably, you know, the best
practices, there are some thingsquite regulated in many ways,
(25:25):
especially, I mean, it's alwaysregulated in some ways to a
software company, which, and Iwas thinking about you as you
know, when you're, when you'redoing construction work, you're
like, what do we do today?
And you can look back at theroad or you can look at the
house and you go, well, today weframed up the walls.
You can like.
At the end of the day, whenthat, when it's time to go home,
you can look and go, Oh, we didthat.
And in technology, it's notalways like that.
(25:47):
So I'm curious for you as aleader, what's been, what have
you had to really shift in termsof shifting your mindset around
leadership, when you move fromrunning a company that in some
ways you're inventing somethingnew, never been done.
So what's been your experiencewith that?
And what have you learned thatthe audience, I'm looking to
glean some glean some wisdomfrom you for the audience as
(26:09):
well.
Bryce Wuori (26:12):
I honestly, the team I have is phenomenal
building a great team aroundyou.
I have a, an amazing in housedev team and CTO that literally
we sit down, we have cycleswhere they do cycles, but we
have like bedding tables wherewe look at requests that we've
had features that people areusing a lot.
(26:32):
And we really think about whatare we going to build next or
what do we have to improve.
Because we're constantly lookingat that and it's taking me time.
I'm going to completely behonest.
I am a dreamer.
So like I am constantly thinkingof like, this would be really
cool.
And, and it's my, it's my devteam and my CTO team that are
always like, yeah, that is cool,but that's that, do we really
(26:55):
need that right now?
And, and that's going to cost usthis much time and things like
that.
So they bring down theperspective of, of Taking it
from a dream to like, we canbuild anything.
They tell us this all the time.
We can build anything that youwant with enough time and money,
but you know, give the biggestthing is giving what the cut,
what is the customer need?
Right.
(27:16):
So I play
Jason Frazell (27:16):
a, Bryce really, really quick.
I have to I just want to stopyou for a minute.
I heard a really great term forthis recently of like a CEO or a
senior person who's got bigideas and comes to the dev team,
and I heard this from a pro hada product at a software company.
He said, we call those swoopersand poopers.
They swoop in and they come withall of the big stuff and they
(27:37):
drop the pilot and not poop.
It's all good stuff, but they'relike, we need to do this, this,
this, this, this.
And you're like, right, am Igetting three additional
headcount and another halfmillion dollars?
Yeah.
They know.
Yeah.
Swoop.
And I thought I, he was like,yeah, swooper and Poopers.
I'm like, I love that so much.
Bryce Wuori (27:51):
My dev team actually created a cloud bucket
for me.
So what that is now is like, ifI have an idea, we put it in the
cloud bucket and we kind ofprioritize it and what it is and
like what, you know, and thenactually we go back to that when
we're creating cycles and like,what about this and that?
And what, you know, so like it,I mean, I tell them all the time
(28:13):
we're never going to run out ofideas and keep building because
there's just so many things inthis industry that could be made
more efficient with technology.
So, I mean, building a teamreally, I, that is the most
important thing is, is I do alot of the listening to what the
people in the field want.
I have a lot of expertise inthis industry.
So I know what.
(28:34):
What is important in a lot ofaspects and things.
And, and I'm on top of a lot ofthe new technologies coming down
through machines and those typesof things.
So I bring those ideas and thosethoughts from experience and
just knowing people in theindustry to my dev team and from
my customers.
And I'm kind of that link andthey tell me what is possible
(28:54):
and what isn't possible and, andwe just it's been working really
good that way.
Jason Frazell (28:59):
Yeah, that's awesome.
What.
When you were hiring your firstcouple of folks for the software
part of the business, becauseyou said you're running both for
a while before you decided tosell the, the, the legacy of
construction business.
I always like to ask founders inany industry, like, what do you,
what did you look for aroundthose first couple of key hires
(29:21):
when you realized I'm going toneed, you know, we're moving
this off of a spreadsheet.
I need some coding.
Maybe I could do it, but it'snot the best use of my time.
Maybe I don't know if you're acoder or not.
And what did you look for inthose first couple of employees?
Bryce Wuori (29:37):
Yeah.
So, I mean, my, my co founderand COO is also my wife and past
business partner.
We've ran three businessestogether, so we have a unique
relationship that she'soperations, she runs finances.
And I am, I always make thisscenario or kind of comparison
that I'm sometimes like the showpony and I'm coming up with the
(29:58):
ideas and running around and sheactually is the wheels making
things turn.
So what we did is we, our firsthire.
Besides us as co founders was aCTO because I was, I was trying
to manage both.
I didn't have enough technicaltechnicality to, to do both.
And I actually went to a reallygood friend that I knew to look
(30:18):
for a CTO for me and, and he wasgiving me recommendations.
I was doing interviews.
And this whole time I reallywanted this person just to like
join our team and eventually hedid.
So like and he is now our CTOand he's phenomenal.
So like what we really lookedfor was.
We, we knew people we wantedthat had good experiences with,
(30:39):
with the industry, with goodworking backgrounds and things.
And, and we really went off of alot of good recommendations,
even for our next hires andthings like that, where people
that had success in the industryand that we knew were
hardworking and wanted to, youknow, it's really important when
you're in a startup because.
(30:59):
You wear multiple hats andthings change all the time is
like somebody who can be youhave to have a little bit of
structure But you also have tobe able to do you things change
so quick like, you know You haveto you have to be flexible and
things like that.
So it takes a special type ofperson to tell you know To, to
(31:21):
fit into this mold of a startup.
But we really looked for thosetypes of people that were kind
of entrepreneur driven, likelove the idea of owning a
business and starting somethingnew and things like that,
because those are the peoplethat are really going to have a
lot of drive and passion to, tomake it a success.
Jason Frazell (31:38):
Yeah.
Have you had any, have you hadany challenges hiring into the
business in terms of just folksthat haven't worked out because
they, the pace or the, and I doa lot of work with startups.
Some people just can't, can'thandle the uncertainty and the
quick shifts.
Cause you may go out and meetwith a huge client.
My guess is this has probablyhappened.
You get introduced to somebodyor you're making sales calls or
(31:58):
whatever.
And it's like, could be asignificant piece of business
and you actually have to shiftthe roadmap.
in order to accommodate whatthey need because they have a
specific way of doing things.
Have you had some challengeswith any employees or in hiring
around just, just not a good fitbecause of, you know, You know,
like technically it's great, butthe startup life just isn't what
they thought it would be.
Bryce Wuori (32:18):
We haven't honestly, everybody's been,
yeah, we've been prettyfortunate.
We're a team of we're only six.
Well, we're eight, six full timewe got two other part time and
actually.
We're seven now.
We just hired another person onsales and so yeah, it, it's
where we set goals and we'repretty, you know, like we're
(32:40):
pretty open.
We're pretty tight team as faras like communication and, and
like, if I need help somewhere,somebody fits in.
And I mean, like, so it'sreally.
Really a lot of just likeputting out fires and stuff But
like just like asking for helpand knowing things are gonna
change every day and and thingslike that It's we've been
(33:04):
fortunate in that so far I thinkyou know as we keep growing we
might run into more and more ofthat But that's honestly one of
the things that we ask in ourinterview process is like do you
need?
Structure to perform well, andand we really strive towards
people that we know Are okaywith changes and kind of like
to, you know, that are okay withthose kinds of environments and
(33:25):
come from other startups.
A lot of these individuals havecame from other startups or in
this world.
So they're, they're familiarwith it.
Jason Frazell (33:32):
Nice.
And how do you think about.
As you continue to grow, whichI'm sure you will, you serve a
huge, I mean, a huge marketopportunity, which is nice.
I like huge market opportunity.
How do you, as the CEO, and by,by the way, I just have to say
that I was thinking we shouldhave you come on and talk about
two things.
(33:52):
Running multiple businesses withyour wife.
That is, in and of itself, youknow, is a special thing.
Not everybody can do that,including my wife and I.
And two, hiring practices.
Because most companies that havegrown to six or seven have had
at least one or two completemisfires.
And I really appreciate thatbecause you know this as well as
anybody, a misfire with a teamof five is a huge setback,
(34:16):
especially when you have marketdemand and you're trying to get
shipping product and meetingclients expectations.
I wanted to ask you about howyou think about maintaining the
culture as you scale, which is anever ending, never ending
thought process.
How do you do that as youbecome, you know, hopefully
someday, well, hopefully whatyou want is you become a little
more removed from those sixemployees, right?
(34:36):
You're doing, you've got acouple of reports.
They're doing those things.
How do you think aboutmaintaining the culture that
you've started to build there ofwhat sounds like a really high
performing and a team that getsalong well and does good work?
Bryce Wuori (34:49):
You know, I thought about that because I've always
been like, I don't want to beone of those bosses or
individuals that doesn't know myemployees.
And you know, one of the thingsthat we do now as, as a company,
even.
We're small enough now to, we,we take the whole group.
Like we went down to world ofasphalt where our devs,
everybody could like see theindustry and how it works.
(35:11):
We have multiple, we have twooffices right now, one in
Bismarck, one in Fargo.
When I go out to Fargo, I, Iwork, I take a day with my dev
team.
We sit down, we have, Pinballtournament and we, you know, we
just kind of hang out and talkabout things and how
everything's going.
I, I do want to stay continuedand we have shifted into giving
(35:32):
like our CE, our CTO moreManagement over, you know, he
pretty much runs that dev crew.
I'm, I'm just talking to himalready, but we still do those
types of things.
And I want to, honestly, that'smy goal down the road is to get
more out of sales and, and evenproduct development.
(35:52):
I'll never get completely out ofproduct development, but I just
want to run a company that,that.
People like to work for andthat's been one of our, our
biggest goals is like build acompany that people are like, I
want to work for them becausethey're building cool things.
And it's a really funenvironment and the people there
are really awesome to work with.
(36:13):
And that's kind of what we'redoing now.
And hopefully we can keep doingthat as we keep growing.
Jason Frazell (36:18):
Yeah, that's nice.
What do you, as we wrap up here,Bryce, what's next for Pavewise
and what's next as a, as all ofus out here who see the kind of
projects that you might beutilized on, what kind of, what
kind of trends are, are youseeing in construction, in the
paving industry that, you thatyou're excited about.
(36:40):
I mean, and, and we had talkedabout this previously, one of
the things, and I know it's verysmall scale right now, but I
think it's, I know Amsterdamhas, it was a Detroit, they've
got like a quarter mile ofconductive electric vehicle
charging.
Now we're like with a specialadapter and I think it's still
in pre alpha phase whereelectrified, in other words,
electrified roads.
I mean, I think the grand visionis someday that is, that is a
(37:02):
real thing, but yeah, I'm reallycurious.
Like, what do you see as, asindustry trends and things that
you're keeping an eye on?
Bryce Wuori (37:09):
Yeah.
One thing I'm really excited foris we're in this unique
transition of the, there's about25 percent of the construction
workforce is 55 and older rightnow.
And they're getting replaced bythe younger generation that's,
was born into technology with,you know, and phones and like
is, you know, Seeing how theconstruction industry kind of
(37:34):
accepts a lot of that and startsusing, pushing more and more
technology, the other reallyunique technology that I'm
involved in a lot and that Ihave a really Big push and drive
for is autonomy autonomousequipment to help digital
operators run multiple pieces ofequipment.
(37:55):
This industry is hard to findindividuals that want to work
12, 13, 14 hours a day in theenvironment.
And, and, and.
You know, it is becoming lessattractive.
So we have to find technologiesto kind of take one operator and
be able to put them on multiplepieces of equipment and make
that equipment more userfriendly.
(38:17):
So that when you get any higher,there's not as much.
Training and demand on them.
They can get in a piece ofmachine.
That's literally telling themwhat they should and shouldn't
do or help them operate moreefficiently.
So those are the technologiesthat we ultimately with pavewise
data that we're collecting thatwe want to help build those
pieces of equipment to makethose decisions.
(38:37):
And that's one like aroundweather, right?
If we have a machine out in thefield and.
And whether it's impacting theperformance, we want to tell
that machine or that operatorhow to perform better.
So auto, you know, autonomy isreally cool and getting pushed
really, really far inconstruction right now.
It's kind of following whatagriculture is doing.
So.
All those types of technologiesare fun and unique.
(39:00):
And I think in the next five to10 years we're going to see some
really cool advancements in,
Jason Frazell (39:06):
in
Bryce Wuori (39:07):
the industry is going to start, these things are
just going to become more normsthan they are just like,
Jason Frazell (39:12):
these are, these
Bryce Wuori (39:12):
are innovations.
No, these are just the way we doit now.
So,
Jason Frazell (39:16):
yeah, very cool.
Awesome, Bryce.
Well, thank you and the rest ofthe team for being a part of it
and for driving innovationyourself as well.
Bryce Wuori (39:24):
Yes.
Thank you, Jason.
I really enjoyed this and we'regoing to just keep grinding away
and, and see what happens.
Yeah.
Jason Frazell (39:31):
I, I hope, I hope at some point I will be driving
down the road and see somebodyon the phone and go, that might
be Pavewise.
That'd be super cool.
Thanks for it.
Yeah.
I really appreciate your timetoday.
I know that.
You know, I alluded to this atthe beginning, but you all are
in your busy season.
You know, it's spring.
It's the beginning of May.
So you got a lot of stuff to do.
I know you have some weatherthere in North Dakota, like you
talked about.
(39:52):
Really appreciate your time.
Cause I know you all have a lotto do here and just make the
industry more efficient and alsohopefully save us taxpayers some
money.
I think everybody likes that.
So thanks for the work you do.
Thanks so much, Bryce.
Take care.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Talking to Cool
People with Jason Frizzell.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please tell your friends, follow
(40:15):
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a moment to leave a review oniTunes.
If something from today'sepisode piqued your interest and
you'd like to connect, email usat podcast at jasonfrizzell.
com.
We love hearing from ourlisteners because you're cool
people too.
Good morning, everybody.
My guest on the podcast today isBryce Worre.
Bryce is the founder and the CEOof PaveWise, as well as a whole
variety of other things.
I've gotten to know him just alittle bit by the time we had a
chance to connect before wepress record here today.
Bryce, welcome.
Good morning.
It is the morning both where Iam and where you are.
Bryce, where are you joining usfrom today?
Bryce Wuori (00:33):
I'm joining from Bismarck, North Dakota.
Jason Frazell (00:36):
Bismarck, North Dakota.
I think I told you offline.
I'm originally from Minnesota,so we were neighbors at one
time.
If you're from North Dakota, nolonger neighbors.
I'm here in the East Coast, butit is morning.
We're recording this in on aThursday.
It is May 2nd, which is hard tobelieve it's May 2nd.
And Bryce, I want to thank youfor making the time to be with
us today.
As you all are going to findout, this is your prime time for
(00:59):
the sort of work that you alldo.
This is when the projects kickoff.
This is when you all are at yourbusiest.
So I really appreciate youmaking the time for us today to
share your entrepreneurialjourney.
So Bryce, first things first,let's talk a little bit about
PaveWise and what that is sopeople can kind of set the
context here, and then we'll goback and just have you share
(01:19):
anything else you'd like us toknow about you before we get
into the details.
So what, what is PaveWise?
Bryce Wuori (01:26):
PaveWise.
PaveWise is a construction techsoftware progressive web app
that we, actually, I developed.
I own a construction company andI, I developed it as a way to
manage my crews.
It tracks on site weather.
You can share plans.
It's a, it's a centralizedplatform for data, really.
Shots of communication,schedules permits, all that.
(01:48):
And, We built it really for the,in mind for the boots on the
ground individuals, so thepeople in the field running a
company, I recognized like in myown practices, like some of the
biggest impacts were weather andmaking our schedule to kind of
fit where we can workefficiently and, Produce the
highest quality of work.
(02:09):
So that was a big, importantthing.
And then just communicating fromthe office to the field was
always kind of an issue.
So I wanted to create a waydigitally to like, I got a new
permit.
I've got a new set of plans.
How do I get this to my foreman,my people in the field without
having to drive out or, youknow, call them or email, we get
a hundred emails a day.
(02:31):
So it's really just a, and it'san efficiency tool that's easy
to use for everybody inconstruction.
Jason Frazell (02:37):
Very cool.
Let's go back a little bit andtalk about your history, your
background, a little bit aboutyour, your life in construction.
So you had mentioned to me,you're a third generation in
this business.
So a family, family ownedbusiness thing.
So I think, so I think the, oneof the questions that I have is
(03:00):
when you say you created thesoftware, what is it?
Did you do that yourself?
Did you hire somebody to do it?
Are you, are you naturally atechnology person who, and I'm
really interested in this topicbecause as a third generation
person in the family business,did you go, Hey, I have a, I
have a real efficient affinityfor tech and learn how to do it?
(03:20):
Or like, how does that go?
Because I could see where it'dbe really easy to just keep
doing things kind of the sameway.
In a business that's thirdgeneration, which means by
design, it's been sustainableand it's been doing good work
for a long time.
Bryce Wuori (03:32):
Yeah.
So, I mean, what I did reallywas these things were being
tracked.
I mean, we were tracking thesein what I'd consider old school
methods of pen paper, trying tobuild out schedules and
modifying them with sticky notesand, and all those types of
things, I've always been thetype of person wired to, when I
(03:53):
see a problem, I want to find asolution for it.
And, and in construction, I'vealways used technology as a way
to, to improve those types ofthings, whether it's in the
field with machine control tohelp the operator perform better
and things like that.
So I've always been a technologyadvocate for the industry.
(04:14):
And that's where I reallystarted to push a lot of these
things.
And I.
I knew the variables.
I was tracking them.
I created the first, I call itthe Frankenstein program because
it literally was just Excel withformulas.
And I knew that these, theseimpacts were causing these kind
of cause and effects things.
(04:35):
But the first generation beta ofit was, I actually hired a
software company to create moreof a user friendly version of it
and do the calculationsmanually.
And that's where it really kindof took off was we'd run 27
projects through it and had highsuccess.
We seen the value in it andthat's where it started to kind
of naturally unfold into otherpeople.
(04:58):
We noticed other people in theindustry were having a lot of
these same effects and problemsand, and we wanted to scale out
and help them.
And it, and that's kind of.
Where we're at today we're,we're a construction tech
company.
We sold this, we sold theconstruction company last year.
We're completely software now.
And we just keep building, keepbuilding things to automate and
help.
People in the field, just bemore efficient and get the data
(05:21):
to make good decisions, toimprove profits, efficiency,
life, everything.
Jason Frazell (05:27):
Yeah.
So growing up, I would, I wouldimagine that you were, you were
exposed to the business early,the family business.
I learned a lot about it.
If you think back to me, whenyou first started to do some
work or, you know, just out onsites with the family and the
company, did you ever envisionnot having a construction
(05:48):
company and being a technologycompany?
Bryce Wuori (05:51):
I did not envision ever being just a software
company.
Like five, six years ago, ifsomebody would have brought that
to me and told me that like as aprofit or something, I would
have laughed at him becauseconstruction is all I never
know.
And, and I mean, it's what Ireally do.
That's one of my biggeststruggles, honestly, is I love
running equipment.
(06:11):
I love being on projects.
So.
I've had to learn to let go ofsome of the physical hand, I
want to go run equipment, I wantto go do this and transferring
that into more of a technicalstandpoint of this is technology
can do this for you kind ofmindset and but no, I definitely
never imagined I'd own aconstruction tech software
(06:33):
company.
Jason Frazell (06:34):
Yeah, and I asked this, Bryce, because it's so
fascinating to me as somebodywho didn't come from a
generational family businessthat you have this legacy for so
long of the ways of doing thingsand making money and providing
for the family and, you know,hopefully building some profit.
And.
Creating a lifestyle, and thenall of a sudden you go, Oh,
let's actually go and dosomething different that's
(06:56):
tangentially related, but notthe thing that was the family
business.
So, and you had mentioned thisearlier, want to dig a little
bit more about the reason youinitially did this, the reason
Pavewise, I don't even know ifit was called, probably wasn't
even called Pavewise, it'sprobably just some, like I said,
it was a spreadsheet.
You did it to solve your ownproblems.
And realized if you in theconstruction industry had these
(07:22):
problems, there's probably tonsof other companies just like you
who have the exact sameproblems.
It's an industry that's beenaround arguably forever.
And do you remember, do youremember the moment when you
realized you had a product thatyou could scale outside?
You had something that you couldactually go and give and
(07:43):
actually make money selling toother companies like yours.
About when you were doingconstruction?
Bryce Wuori (07:50):
Yeah, I do actually remember, I, when it got to the
point where I realized like,Hey, we might have something
here that can help other people,and I, I actually did some
research.
I looked for companies, softwarecompanies that were doing things
similar couldn't find anything.
Went down to one of the biggestconstruction expos con Expo down
(08:11):
in Las Vegas.
And walked and looked athundreds of software companies,
what they offer, talk to themand things.
And I'm just like, ah, it'sjust, there's nothing, there's
nothing here.
That's really doing what we'redoing with the, you know, boots
on the ground, individualsintegrating in weather impacts
to specifications and thingslike that.
And I think we're, you know, Ithink we're on to something
(08:32):
different here and, and we'restill something very different
because we don't, we're not aproject management software.
We're, we're like a riskmanagement solutions boat on the
ground software that integratesall these different things in
there and we're still veryunique.
We don't even know what wereally consider ourselves as
like putting us in a bucket ofwhat are we and it's It's
(08:54):
evolving all the time becausereally what we do is we listen
to our customers and Hey, we gotthis problem.
Well, let's see how we can finda solution for it using
technology.
So, but that was the time it wasConExpo about four years ago.
I think it was 2019.
And I, I just, I spent two dayswalking around looking at
(09:15):
software companies, talking withpeople and just.
That was really my test to seelike, well, is there, is there,
is there something out here?
Are we wasting our time?
Is this existing?
We have something.
And I think we can really helpthe industry with this.
Jason Frazell (09:30):
Yeah.
I think there's a, there's areally good lesson in there for,
for.
Tech, tech founders, a lot oftimes they think they have the
greatest thing and then do someresearch, but don't go and do
enough research to find out thatthere's enough things that are
so either they're, they're veryclosely related that, that a
company with bigger scale couldjust actually decide to do it.
(09:51):
And they could like.
Put some engineering resourcesto it and like either do it
quickly or that there's alreadya market leader that does it
really well and you're justfighting a huge uphill battle.
I really liked the idea of thatactually walking around trade
shows, going, Hey, what are,what are other people doing in
this space?
Are they doing anything in thisspace?
How are we the same?
How are we different in learningwhat works and what doesn't?
That's really cool.
(10:12):
Let's talk about PaveWise.
So specifically, well, let'stalk about the name PaveWise.
What, what is I have, I have anassumption about that.
I happen to know what you alldo, but let's, let's talk about
what you all, let's talk aboutwhat you actually do inside of
the massive constructionindustry.
Bryce Wuori (10:32):
Yeah.
The, the software itself, youknow, the name I came up with
just because it's like, we'regiving the biggest thing that
we're doing is giving.
Proactive decisions of this iswhat's going to impact your
project.
And a lot of it's around thingsyou can't control.
Right.
I mean, like today in where I'msitting right now, we're going
(10:52):
to get a half an inch to inch ofrain.
I can't control that.
And that's going to impact anyproject that's in this.
vicinity of this rain right nowvery heavily.
So, so what we try to do isidentify like, this is what
you're going to be impactedwith.
And this is how it's going toimpact your schedule.
We try to decrease like idletime because that costs time and
(11:15):
money a lot for companies.
Like if you know you're notgoing to work today, why, why
send a crew out there and sitand wait for it to stop raining
when it's not going to, right.
Or, or the quality of work isthe biggest thing, like it.
We don't have the rightconditions to do the work.
We have specifications that tellus like, this is the
(11:37):
temperatures you need.
This is you know, the moisturethat you need.
This is how we want this built.
And if a lot of times, if youdon't have the right conditions,
you're not supposed to do thework anyways, because the
quality of the work goes down.
So that decreases a lot of the,the payment factor and things
like that.
And, you know, even thepotential to do.
What am I going to remove thisbecause it failed those types of
(11:59):
things.
So we're really, we're reallytrying to give wise decisions
and bring forward this data,right?
This data that people can lookat and be like, Oh, wow.
I got three days of rain comingup on this project.
I want to move this crew over toproject.
where it's sunny and beautifulto help them get caught up.
So we're not sitting around idleand, and just kind of using all
(12:22):
that data to, to really identifywhere and when can I work the
most efficient at the time Ihave.
Jason Frazell (12:28):
Yeah.
I always like to ask people insoftware, what do people do if
they're not using a solutionlike PaveWise, what that, that
scenario, what, what'shappening.
Without technology, how it's,how it's been done in the past.
Bryce Wuori (12:42):
Weather channel and papered pen, or you know what,
honestly, I see this industry doa lot of, and it, and I'm, I
used to do this too.
It's just like, well, let'sjust, we're reactive.
Let's like, let's go and seewhat happens.
Well.
The data is there to tell uswhat's going to happen.
It's not going to change.
So, you know, I, I used to justlike, well, send a crew out and
(13:04):
let's just see what, you know,see if you can get anything done
there today.
And I just paid the crew 12hours to sit around in, in,
when, when I could have movedthem somewhere else or brought
them to the shop to domaintenance or done this or
that.
So quite honestly, we see ourbiggest competitor a lot in that
space is you know, weather appsand maybe some.
(13:25):
Scheduling tools that theyintegrate a little.
And that's what I was doing,honestly, I was taking multiple,
I was taking multiple weatherapps, Google maps and dropping a
pin and then taking the datafrom multiple weather apps and
trying to figure out how muchthis, the weather in the next 30
days was going to affect myschedule on this project.
And what I needed to do to stayin compliance for that.
(13:48):
Cause that's the other thingthat's.
Really important this industryis we have contracts.
We have deadlines to get thiswork done.
Jason Frazell (13:54):
Sure
Bryce Wuori (13:55):
If you don't get that work done in that time
frame What happens is you startgetting penalized every day
after that contract date It'sit's called liquidated damages
and a lot of times that weatheris what causes it more than
anything so identifying how muchthat weather is going to impact
you to get to that completiondate and understand cause and
effect of that is very importantbecause that can cost five, 10,
(14:17):
20, 000 a day after thecompletion date.
And that, that can blow yourprofits right out of, you know,
on any project.
So,
Jason Frazell (14:25):
yeah.
Well, the other thing, Bryce,And I, you and I were talking, I
know almost nothing about thisindustry.
One of the reasons I lovetalking to you is learning about
something that I obviously seeall the time, but don't
understand the details.
The other thing that strikes meabout this is a competitive
advantage of using somethinglike PaveWise.
Is potentially you're moreaccurate in your bidding, like
(14:48):
potentially even be able to bida little bit lower, knowing that
like what you just said, you'regoing to optimize, you're going
to optimize the value.
You're not going to have a crewsitting out there because at the
end of the day, the client paysfor that at the end of the day,
like if there's overrun built orthere's, I don't know what you
call it, but I think it'soverrun.
It's built into the contract.
Well, potentially you can take afew days off the bid, or if you
say it's going to take, youknow, six months, maybe it's
(15:10):
five and a half months knowingThat you're going to keep that
crew efficiently working asopposed to, well, Mr.
Customer, I don't know if thecustomer, like the department of
transportation is, well, youknow what you're paying, you're
paying my crew to stand outthere under umbrellas or sit in
their trucks.
And they're getting paid.
Bryce Wuori (15:27):
Absolutely.
And I mean, so yeah, we do, andit really does open the eyes of
a lot of our new users of like,this is how many days your
average, just how many days youlost, or this was your average
efficiency on this project fromweather impact so that you can
go forward and kind of, youknow, understand, well maybe I'm
not putting enough lost age inand things like that.
And as far as the DOT'sperspective or any owner, the
(15:49):
way I explain it to them islike, you wouldn't pay someone
to paint your house in the rain.
Why would, why would you wantyour road paved in the rain or
in the conditions where youknow, it could prematurely fail
or not produce the highestamount of quality.
So.
This is like a multi facet toolthat yeah, we built for
contractors, but in reality whatwe're doing is giving the
(16:11):
contractors more decisions toproduce a higher quality product
that they get paid more for,that then in turn the owner or
the state gets a better qualityproject or product that lasts
longer.
That pushes our tax dollars toother infrastructure and, and
we're not getting those potholesand those failing conditions
that happen because of, ofcertain, you know what I mean?
(16:33):
It's just like this.
It's like an evolution of, ofthings and, and, and that's
important because we're, our taxdollars are dwindling and we got
to cover more roads and, and,and build better roads with the
money we have, so.
Jason Frazell (16:48):
Also, just, if we just call a spade a spade.
In most states, not generallyeverybody's favorite is the DOT.
That's not generally the thingpeople like, I love the
Minnesota DOT or the New YorkDOT.
And like a lot of times, I thinkthey're just doing good work and
they're, they're at the mercy ofweather things.
And that As a consumer of thoseand as a taxpayer, it ends up
(17:08):
being like, Oh, it's notefficient, but what's actually
just happening is it'sinefficient because of the
systems and the operational partof it, not necessarily when
they're out there doing the goodwork.
I think like as a, as ataxpayer, that's, that's also
the ton of value.
Bryce Wuori (17:21):
Absolutely.
A ton of value.
And I mean, that's the ultimategoal that we have too, with this
is like, Just to build bettermore efficient infrastructure
with data using data to buildbetter infrastructure So, I mean
that's that's our ultimate goal.
We work with DOTs.
We work with with contractorsanybody who wants to just be
(17:43):
more efficient and Honestly,what's really cool too is this
tool is a mediator between DOTsand contractors, right?
Jason Frazell (17:51):
Mm hmm
Bryce Wuori (17:52):
We have our ground truth system, which is a hundred
percent certified weatherstation that we can put on site
with 11 sensors ran off thesolar that tracks weather
condition every 15 minutes.
So if there's any complianceissues between the contractor
and the state being like, well,we don't have temperatures to
pave, we have a system therethat pretty much tells you
(18:12):
exactly what the temperature is,what the conditions were at.
Any second or any minute of thatproject and we can use it as a
tool.
So there's no litigation orpointing fingers that, well, you
didn't do this in the rightconditions.
You didn't do this.
And everybody's in agreeanceinstead of, you know, I've, I've
been part of these projectswhere we pick up a phone app and
(18:33):
I got AccuWeather and it says,it's.
It's 35 degrees and then I pickup another one and it says it's
32 degrees.
We sit and wait because nobodycan come into agreeance, we're
shooting with these temp gunsand everything and it's like, we
just lost an hour where we couldhave just worked or we shouldn't
have worked at this time andthere was no, no like waiting
(18:54):
for someone to make a decision.
This thing here is like aintermediate, like a, almost
like a an inspector on site, aweather inspector telling you
when you can't, can, when youcan't work, when you should, all
that, like at a hundred percentaccuracy.
So.
Jason Frazell (19:07):
Yeah.
Why not?
I want to talk about two otherthings with you during this
interview.
The first one is productadoption.
In other words, changemanagement, because anytime I
talk to anybody in technology,who's doing something different
than how it's been done for along time, I'm so curious,
Bryce, how you see this, whereyou say, Hey, remember how it
(19:28):
used to be paper, post it notes.
We've been doing it this way,maybe even a spreadsheet with a,
like a, like a tough book orsomething, by the way, we're
doing things differently.
How do you address that?
And like, let's start with yourown company when you started
doing this, because if we couldjust call it out, people don't
like change generally.
Because it requires, yeah, sohow do you, like, how do you do
(19:48):
that in a way that empowerspeople to want to use it?
And then now that you are asoftware company, you have a
whole slew of people that you goand sell this to because the
owner goes, this is brilliant.
And then as soon as it gets tothe people on the field, they
go, ah, I don't want to do, Idon't want to learn a new thing.
I don't want to do it.
So how do you, how do you alladdress that as a leader?
Bryce Wuori (20:09):
Yeah.
Change is hard.
I mean, honestly, that's one ofthe biggest things that we, we
struggle with right now is weknow this tool can help
companies be more profitable, bemore efficient collect the data
to prove whatever they need.
And the change.
How we approach it, honestly,what's been working the best is
(20:30):
if we can get it into the handsof the right people, like a
champion that is struggling, ifwe, like, time is very
important, so when we can provethat we can save that operation,
It's manager two hours a day byautomating all the data that
comes through that they don'thave to drive out on a site
that's three hours away to checka rain gauge, to see how much
(20:52):
rain they got to do federalcompliance inspections for
weather that can sit in theiroffice and do that like that is
very important.
And that's one of the uniquethings that we have going on is
we, a lot of software,especially in construction tech
is built for the office forbidding for scheduling for like
that part of the world and like.
What we always, what I alwayspromote is like you can bid and
(21:15):
make the most perfect project onpaper in the office work, but
really where
Jason Frazell (21:19):
the bread and
Bryce Wuori (21:20):
butter is made is in the field, the people
building it.
So we take a little differentapproach.
I mean, we do talk to, you know,corporate people up in the
office and stuff, but they don'tstruggle with the pains that
we're solving.
So they can't really relate allthe time to like we can save you
your operations manager twohours a day by doing this while
that's their job.
(21:40):
Right.
But that that's what the waythey see it.
We have to go to approach themto be that we just saved a
contractor 40, 000 by helpingthem prove compliance on a
project that talks to them.
But.
Really getting it into theirhands.
I mean, we've already put a lotinto this software where we just
listen to the users.
And like, we've had people inthe field be like, Hey, I love
(22:02):
that I can do this, but I don'twant to manage these files.
I don't want to have to go takea picture or upload this and put
it into this project file.
So we took that to our dev teamand they're like, We can build
an AI tool that literallymanages the files for them based
off the tag files from thepictures, from where all this,
and they did that in a depthcycle.
(22:23):
And now our software has a toolcalled Pat Papewise, which is an
AI tool.
You drop in a file, it literallywill put it into the right
project, right folder for you.
So it eliminated that frictionof we don't want to do this part
of it.
And, and now, you know, Andkeeping it simple, like that is
one of our biggest mottos islike 90 percent of our users are
(22:46):
on a phone.
They're using this like aweather app.
So we've made it so like, it'svery simple.
It takes 20 minutes, 30 minutesfor us to sit down with somebody
in the field and be like, allright, let's download this.
Here's how you navigate it.
If you want to take a picture,if you want to add data, boom,
done.
It's, it's not overlycomplicated.
(23:06):
And.
I mean, like we have to showthem how to use it and how it
benefits them in order for themto see the use and to use it
properly.
So we really put a lot of timeinto when we get a customer, we
make sure.
We check in with them, we, wetrain them, we make sure that
(23:28):
everything's working okay and wedon't want to churn them, right?
We don't want them to, to leavebecause they're not getting the
right training to use it.
So we've really concentrated on,on training and just keeping it
simple and yeah, change is superhard and just grinding.
It's going to take like five toseven touches we found in this
(23:49):
industry to even get somebody tothink about what you're trying
to do.
So it's not easy, but that's howwe've been approaching it.
Jason Frazell (23:59):
Yeah.
Thanks, Bryce.
Yeah.
I imagine just change managementin any industry is hard.
Or in an inside any company ishard, especially in my past
career.
I did a lot of things where we'dintroduce new technology.
People just don't like thechange, even if it's so
beneficial for them, even to belike, Hey, it saves you time.
It saves you money.
Like the person who saves money.
They like that, but Oh, it savesyou time.
(24:21):
It makes your job easier.
I have to do this to go.
Yeah, but it's something new Ihave to think about and do.
It's like a, it's like a newthing I have to think about in
my head and I don't want to dothat.
Bryce Wuori (24:28):
Yeah.
It's really, it's really cooltoo about that too is like, so I
forgot to mention like theyounger generation, all for it.
They want it.
Jason Frazell (24:35):
They
Bryce Wuori (24:37):
don't want to fill out paperwork and, and do like
my logs on this journal in abook.
I want to do it somewheredigitally.
Cause I gotta, Go hand this inat the office or take a picture
of it and email it or dowhatever anyway.
So it's really unique too, thatthe younger generation grabs
onto this pretty fast and pushesit pretty hard in the, in the,
the older generation, it takes alittle bit more, but they
(25:00):
eventually kind of, kind of seethe benefit in it as well.
Jason Frazell (25:04):
I want to wrap today and get your perspective
and experience around Leadershipand how I want to, first of all,
talk about your experiencemoving from an industry that's
been around forever hasarguably, you know, the best
practices, there are some thingsquite regulated in many ways,
(25:25):
especially, I mean, it's alwaysregulated in some ways to a
software company, which, and Iwas thinking about you as you
know, when you're, when you'redoing construction work, you're
like, what do we do today?
And you can look back at theroad or you can look at the
house and you go, well, today weframed up the walls.
You can like.
At the end of the day, whenthat, when it's time to go home,
you can look and go, Oh, we didthat.
And in technology, it's notalways like that.
(25:47):
So I'm curious for you as aleader, what's been, what have
you had to really shift in termsof shifting your mindset around
leadership, when you move fromrunning a company that in some
ways you're inventing somethingnew, never been done.
So what's been your experiencewith that?
And what have you learned thatthe audience, I'm looking to
glean some glean some wisdomfrom you for the audience as
(26:09):
well.
Bryce Wuori (26:12):
I honestly, the team I have is phenomenal
building a great team aroundyou.
I have a, an amazing in housedev team and CTO that literally
we sit down, we have cycleswhere they do cycles, but we
have like bedding tables wherewe look at requests that we've
had features that people areusing a lot.
(26:32):
And we really think about whatare we going to build next or
what do we have to improve.
Because we're constantly lookingat that and it's taking me time.
I'm going to completely behonest.
I am a dreamer.
So like I am constantly thinkingof like, this would be really
cool.
And, and it's my, it's my devteam and my CTO team that are
always like, yeah, that is cool,but that's that, do we really
(26:55):
need that right now?
And, and that's going to cost usthis much time and things like
that.
So they bring down theperspective of, of Taking it
from a dream to like, we canbuild anything.
They tell us this all the time.
We can build anything that youwant with enough time and money,
but you know, give the biggestthing is giving what the cut,
what is the customer need?
Right.
(27:16):
So I play
Jason Frazell (27:16):
a, Bryce really, really quick.
I have to I just want to stopyou for a minute.
I heard a really great term forthis recently of like a CEO or a
senior person who's got bigideas and comes to the dev team,
and I heard this from a pro hada product at a software company.
He said, we call those swoopersand poopers.
They swoop in and they come withall of the big stuff and they
(27:37):
drop the pilot and not poop.
It's all good stuff, but they'relike, we need to do this, this,
this, this, this.
And you're like, right, am Igetting three additional
headcount and another halfmillion dollars?
Yeah.
They know.
Yeah.
Swoop.
And I thought I, he was like,yeah, swooper and Poopers.
I'm like, I love that so much.
Bryce Wuori (27:51):
My dev team actually created a cloud bucket
for me.
So what that is now is like, ifI have an idea, we put it in the
cloud bucket and we kind ofprioritize it and what it is and
like what, you know, and thenactually we go back to that when
we're creating cycles and like,what about this and that?
And what, you know, so like it,I mean, I tell them all the time
(28:13):
we're never going to run out ofideas and keep building because
there's just so many things inthis industry that could be made
more efficient with technology.
So, I mean, building a teamreally, I, that is the most
important thing is, is I do alot of the listening to what the
people in the field want.
I have a lot of expertise inthis industry.
So I know what.
(28:34):
What is important in a lot ofaspects and things.
And, and I'm on top of a lot ofthe new technologies coming down
through machines and those typesof things.
So I bring those ideas and thosethoughts from experience and
just knowing people in theindustry to my dev team and from
my customers.
And I'm kind of that link andthey tell me what is possible
(28:54):
and what isn't possible and, andwe just it's been working really
good that way.
Jason Frazell (28:59):
Yeah, that's awesome.
What.
When you were hiring your firstcouple of folks for the software
part of the business, becauseyou said you're running both for
a while before you decided tosell the, the, the legacy of
construction business.
I always like to ask founders inany industry, like, what do you,
what did you look for aroundthose first couple of key hires
(29:21):
when you realized I'm going toneed, you know, we're moving
this off of a spreadsheet.
I need some coding.
Maybe I could do it, but it'snot the best use of my time.
Maybe I don't know if you're acoder or not.
And what did you look for inthose first couple of employees?
Bryce Wuori (29:37):
Yeah.
So, I mean, my, my co founderand COO is also my wife and past
business partner.
We've ran three businessestogether, so we have a unique
relationship that she'soperations, she runs finances.
And I am, I always make thisscenario or kind of comparison
that I'm sometimes like the showpony and I'm coming up with the
(29:58):
ideas and running around and sheactually is the wheels making
things turn.
So what we did is we, our firsthire.
Besides us as co founders was aCTO because I was, I was trying
to manage both.
I didn't have enough technicaltechnicality to, to do both.
And I actually went to a reallygood friend that I knew to look
(30:18):
for a CTO for me and, and he wasgiving me recommendations.
I was doing interviews.
And this whole time I reallywanted this person just to like
join our team and eventually hedid.
So like and he is now our CTOand he's phenomenal.
So like what we really lookedfor was.
We, we knew people we wantedthat had good experiences with,
(30:39):
with the industry, with goodworking backgrounds and things.
And, and we really went off of alot of good recommendations,
even for our next hires andthings like that, where people
that had success in the industryand that we knew were
hardworking and wanted to, youknow, it's really important when
you're in a startup because.
(30:59):
You wear multiple hats andthings change all the time is
like somebody who can be youhave to have a little bit of
structure But you also have tobe able to do you things change
so quick like, you know You haveto you have to be flexible and
things like that.
So it takes a special type ofperson to tell you know To, to
(31:21):
fit into this mold of a startup.
But we really looked for thosetypes of people that were kind
of entrepreneur driven, likelove the idea of owning a
business and starting somethingnew and things like that,
because those are the peoplethat are really going to have a
lot of drive and passion to, tomake it a success.
Jason Frazell (31:38):
Yeah.
Have you had any, have you hadany challenges hiring into the
business in terms of just folksthat haven't worked out because
they, the pace or the, and I doa lot of work with startups.
Some people just can't, can'thandle the uncertainty and the
quick shifts.
Cause you may go out and meetwith a huge client.
My guess is this has probablyhappened.
You get introduced to somebodyor you're making sales calls or
(31:58):
whatever.
And it's like, could be asignificant piece of business
and you actually have to shiftthe roadmap.
in order to accommodate whatthey need because they have a
specific way of doing things.
Have you had some challengeswith any employees or in hiring
around just, just not a good fitbecause of, you know, You know,
like technically it's great, butthe startup life just isn't what
they thought it would be.
Bryce Wuori (32:18):
We haven't honestly, everybody's been,
yeah, we've been prettyfortunate.
We're a team of we're only six.
Well, we're eight, six full timewe got two other part time and
actually.
We're seven now.
We just hired another person onsales and so yeah, it, it's
where we set goals and we'repretty, you know, like we're
(32:40):
pretty open.
We're pretty tight team as faras like communication and, and
like, if I need help somewhere,somebody fits in.
And I mean, like, so it'sreally.
Really a lot of just likeputting out fires and stuff But
like just like asking for helpand knowing things are gonna
change every day and and thingslike that It's we've been
(33:04):
fortunate in that so far I thinkyou know as we keep growing we
might run into more and more ofthat But that's honestly one of
the things that we ask in ourinterview process is like do you
need?
Structure to perform well, andand we really strive towards
people that we know Are okaywith changes and kind of like
to, you know, that are okay withthose kinds of environments and
(33:25):
come from other startups.
A lot of these individuals havecame from other startups or in
this world.
So they're, they're familiarwith it.
Jason Frazell (33:32):
Nice.
And how do you think about.
As you continue to grow, whichI'm sure you will, you serve a
huge, I mean, a huge marketopportunity, which is nice.
I like huge market opportunity.
How do you, as the CEO, and by,by the way, I just have to say
that I was thinking we shouldhave you come on and talk about
two things.
(33:52):
Running multiple businesses withyour wife.
That is, in and of itself, youknow, is a special thing.
Not everybody can do that,including my wife and I.
And two, hiring practices.
Because most companies that havegrown to six or seven have had
at least one or two completemisfires.
And I really appreciate thatbecause you know this as well as
anybody, a misfire with a teamof five is a huge setback,
(34:16):
especially when you have marketdemand and you're trying to get
shipping product and meetingclients expectations.
I wanted to ask you about howyou think about maintaining the
culture as you scale, which is anever ending, never ending
thought process.
How do you do that as youbecome, you know, hopefully
someday, well, hopefully whatyou want is you become a little
more removed from those sixemployees, right?
(34:36):
You're doing, you've got acouple of reports.
They're doing those things.
How do you think aboutmaintaining the culture that
you've started to build there ofwhat sounds like a really high
performing and a team that getsalong well and does good work?
Bryce Wuori (34:49):
You know, I thought about that because I've always
been like, I don't want to beone of those bosses or
individuals that doesn't know myemployees.
And you know, one of the thingsthat we do now as, as a company,
even.
We're small enough now to, we,we take the whole group.
Like we went down to world ofasphalt where our devs,
everybody could like see theindustry and how it works.
(35:11):
We have multiple, we have twooffices right now, one in
Bismarck, one in Fargo.
When I go out to Fargo, I, Iwork, I take a day with my dev
team.
We sit down, we have, Pinballtournament and we, you know, we
just kind of hang out and talkabout things and how
everything's going.
I, I do want to stay continuedand we have shifted into giving
(35:32):
like our CE, our CTO moreManagement over, you know, he
pretty much runs that dev crew.
I'm, I'm just talking to himalready, but we still do those
types of things.
And I want to, honestly, that'smy goal down the road is to get
more out of sales and, and evenproduct development.
(35:52):
I'll never get completely out ofproduct development, but I just
want to run a company that,that.
People like to work for andthat's been one of our, our
biggest goals is like build acompany that people are like, I
want to work for them becausethey're building cool things.
And it's a really funenvironment and the people there
are really awesome to work with.
(36:13):
And that's kind of what we'redoing now.
And hopefully we can keep doingthat as we keep growing.
Jason Frazell (36:18):
Yeah, that's nice.
What do you, as we wrap up here,Bryce, what's next for Pavewise
and what's next as a, as all ofus out here who see the kind of
projects that you might beutilized on, what kind of, what
kind of trends are, are youseeing in construction, in the
paving industry that, you thatyou're excited about.
(36:40):
I mean, and, and we had talkedabout this previously, one of
the things, and I know it's verysmall scale right now, but I
think it's, I know Amsterdamhas, it was a Detroit, they've
got like a quarter mile ofconductive electric vehicle
charging.
Now we're like with a specialadapter and I think it's still
in pre alpha phase whereelectrified, in other words,
electrified roads.
I mean, I think the grand visionis someday that is, that is a
(37:02):
real thing, but yeah, I'm reallycurious.
Like, what do you see as, asindustry trends and things that
you're keeping an eye on?
Bryce Wuori (37:09):
Yeah.
One thing I'm really excited foris we're in this unique
transition of the, there's about25 percent of the construction
workforce is 55 and older rightnow.
And they're getting replaced bythe younger generation that's,
was born into technology with,you know, and phones and like
is, you know, Seeing how theconstruction industry kind of
(37:34):
accepts a lot of that and startsusing, pushing more and more
technology, the other reallyunique technology that I'm
involved in a lot and that Ihave a really Big push and drive
for is autonomy autonomousequipment to help digital
operators run multiple pieces ofequipment.
(37:55):
This industry is hard to findindividuals that want to work
12, 13, 14 hours a day in theenvironment.
And, and, and.
You know, it is becoming lessattractive.
So we have to find technologiesto kind of take one operator and
be able to put them on multiplepieces of equipment and make
that equipment more userfriendly.
(38:17):
So that when you get any higher,there's not as much.
Training and demand on them.
They can get in a piece ofmachine.
That's literally telling themwhat they should and shouldn't
do or help them operate moreefficiently.
So those are the technologiesthat we ultimately with pavewise
data that we're collecting thatwe want to help build those
pieces of equipment to makethose decisions.
(38:37):
And that's one like aroundweather, right?
If we have a machine out in thefield and.
And whether it's impacting theperformance, we want to tell
that machine or that operatorhow to perform better.
So auto, you know, autonomy isreally cool and getting pushed
really, really far inconstruction right now.
It's kind of following whatagriculture is doing.
So.
All those types of technologiesare fun and unique.
(39:00):
And I think in the next five to10 years we're going to see some
really cool advancements in,
Jason Frazell (39:06):
in
Bryce Wuori (39:07):
the industry is going to start, these things are
just going to become more normsthan they are just like,
Jason Frazell (39:12):
these are, these
Bryce Wuori (39:12):
are innovations.
No, these are just the way we doit now.
So,
Jason Frazell (39:16):
yeah, very cool.
Awesome, Bryce.
Well, thank you and the rest ofthe team for being a part of it
and for driving innovationyourself as well.
Bryce Wuori (39:24):
Yes.
Thank you, Jason.
I really enjoyed this and we'regoing to just keep grinding away
and, and see what happens.
Yeah.
Jason Frazell (39:31):
I, I hope, I hope at some point I will be driving
down the road and see somebodyon the phone and go, that might
be Pavewise.
That'd be super cool.
Thanks for it.
Yeah.
I really appreciate your timetoday.
I know that.
You know, I alluded to this atthe beginning, but you all are
in your busy season.
You know, it's spring.
It's the beginning of May.
So you got a lot of stuff to do.
I know you have some weatherthere in North Dakota, like you
talked about.
(39:52):
Really appreciate your time.
Cause I know you all have a lotto do here and just make the
industry more efficient and alsohopefully save us taxpayers some
money.
I think everybody likes that.
So thanks for the work you do.
Thanks so much, Bryce.
Take care.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Talking to Cool
People with Jason Frizzell.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please tell your friends, follow
(40:15):
us on Instagram and Facebook,and give us a shout out, or take
a moment to leave a review oniTunes.
If something from today'sepisode piqued your interest and
you'd like to connect, email usat podcast at jasonfrizzell.
com.
We love hearing from ourlisteners because you're cool
people too.
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