Leslie Danford - Founder and CEO of Vitaminis - Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell

Episode Transcript
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Jason Frazell (00:11):
Everybody, my guest on the show is Leslie
Danford.
She is the founder of VitaMinis.
Leslie, so great to have youhere.
Welcome.

Leslie Danford (00:19):
Thanks for having me.

Yes.
Leslie, I always like to findout, and one of the cool things
about being a podcaster is I getto talk to people from around
the globe.
And, I think people have heardthat you're probably not from
around the globe.
You're like American or maybeCanadian, but Leslie, just like
to start off, like where are youjoining us from today?

I'm in the Chicago suburbs.
It's a nice sunny day here inChicago.

Yes.
It's beautiful.
We were just catching up.
We're recording this April 9th,which is the day after the
eclipse.
And it sounds like you got anspectacular view out where we
are here in New York.
We got a bunch of clouds with,it was, it was kind of strange.
It was weird.
It got dark, but it wasn't likeinteresting.

Yeah, we did have to drive a couple hours for
the spectacularness, but yeah,it's pretty cool.

And you made it.
Excellent.
So we're going to talk about avariety of things today.
We're going to talk about whatyou're doing now.
We're also going to talk aboutwhat's led you to today.
I think it's for some peoplejust as interesting or sometimes
more interesting.
And you've done a lot of things.
So let's just kick off and loveto have you share with, with the
audience, anything that youthink would be useful for us to

(01:23):
know about your journey as wekick off today.

Yeah, so I think it's interesting how life kind
of brings together your passionsand kind of sends you on a path
and you don't always know whereit's going to end up.
But I've always been passionateabout nutrition.
I think it actually started whenI was a kid.
My dad, who's a scientist, waskind of in charge of the meals.
My mom traveled for work, whichI think was kind of unusual in
the 80s.
And my dad was not a foodie atall.

(01:49):
So dinner was always like,here's your protein, here's your
vegetable, or it was like, youknow, components.
So that's how I think aboutfood.
It's like making sure you getall the components for your
machine that is your body.
And I've always kind of thoughtabout it that way.
And I'm always into that becauseI believe if you take care of
yourself in that way, you canprevent illness and really have

(02:09):
more energy and kind of improveyour life overall.
It's kind of like the fuel youput in your car, right?
So that was always my passionpersonally, but at the same time
it's really hard to get thatdone with whole foods.
You know,

Speaker 3 (02:20):
it's

just hard.
It's like hard to get it all in.
And then I also learned overtime that processed foods make
it hard for your gut to evenabsorb vitamins.
A lot of our produce doesn'teven have that much vitamin
content anymore because ofindustrialized farming and
things like that.
So then I started looking intosupplements.
In my personal life, but there'sa lot of issues with that.
So when I was pregnant, I tookpregnancy vitamins, but they

(02:44):
make me sick, like they make younauseous.
They're just really intense.
And then I tried gummies, butthey're full of sugar.
You feel like you're coatingyour teeth with sugar every day.
And so this was always kind oflike a thing I dealt with in my
background life.
And then professionally I workedin consumer products and then I
worked in beverages in thealcohol industry.
So while I was working in thealcohol industry, we were seeing

(03:05):
all this research come throughabout clean label, functional
beverage, nutrient dense foods.
And I thought, yes, like this, Ineed this because I personally
was like, this is what we need.
I need that personally.
But I was like, we're nevergoing to do anything with this
information because we're in thealcohol industry.
So this is kind of going out fora few years.
And then I ended up leaving thatindustry and going to the

(03:26):
hospitality industry rightbefore the pandemic.
And bad timing.
So I got laid off and that'swhen it all kind of came
together.
I got laid off and I was homewith my kids.
Schools were shut down andeverything trying to get
everyone's nutritional needsmet, thinking about vitamins and
how to make sure our immunesystems are ready in COVID still

(03:46):
didn't like gummies, stilldidn't like pills, and it just
kind of like all came togetherat that point.

I have so many questions, so many questions.
I'm laughing because I didn't,as a consumer of alcohol, I
would never think that alcoholcompanies would be that, would
be paying that much attentionto, like, food trends.

Well, it just comes through, like, any
research that you get.
It might be like flavors.
I mean, if you think abouttrends overall right now in the
population, most of them arehealth and wellness oriented.
So if you're working in thealcohol industry, and by the
way, people are drinking a lotless.
I mean, there was a COVID spike,but generation Z does not drink
alcohol the way our parents didor their parents did.

Absolutely.

So if you're in the alcohol industry, it's like
you see that coming.
And then you know, the wellnessstuff is coming and it's like a
little bit of a catch 22.
Yeah,

I was just not to get too much into this, but I
think it does relate.
Two things.
One, things are legal now thatwere not legal 20 years ago in a
variety of states and Illinoismarijuana, THC is legal.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Certainly,

certainly legal here in, in New York state as
well.
And you can walk down thestreets of New York and smell it
everywhere.
That was not a thing 20 yearsago or wasn't legal at least.
Two, I just saw an article.
That one of the trends and maybeit was Gen Z is actually non
alcoholic beverages.
Oh

yes.
And

like, and that's crazy to me.

Oh, it's a big part of it is because people are
using cannabis and then theywant like the drink with it, but
not double down and then part ofit is health trends.
So it's both.
It's not all health.
It's not all good.

No, no.
Yeah, no, this is not purely,but I, but laughing is I'm 46.
So for me, the idea of likegoing out to a bar as somebody
who would would like to drinkalcohol and like.
Drink sometimes is like, I'm notordering a non alcoholic
beverage.
That's just like, not a thingthat I would probably do.
Yeah.
I mean, they're going to drinkwater.
Yeah.
I was

skiing in January and I went to apres ski
and a whole table of guysordered athletic brewing.
So that not, and I just, I waslike, interesting, very
interesting.

Well, Leslie, so thanks for sharing that first
part of your journey.
I want to talk a little bit.
You had.
A very unique situation withyour family and starting a
business.
And then you also mentioned inCOVID.
And for those of us who hadyoung kids at home during COVID,
I think Chelsea Handler, thecomedian was saying, we all need

(06:15):
extra therapy.
There's no doubt in my family.
That was tough.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
Yeah.

Real tough.
Having a four year old on atablet on Zoom is not a winning
combination when you're bothtrying to work.
It doesn't really workespecially when you have two
working parents, which is whatwe have in our house.
But I'm really curious, youactually started this business
when you were, you know, like,you were expecting.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yes, I learned that.

And, and, and, yeah, no, yes, please, all
welcome.
And.
As we were talking about, youactually ran this business with
a newborn, like an infant.
So let's talk a little bitabout, about that.
And then we're going, we'regoing to get into like some of
the, the business things and thehealth and wellness.
But like, I saw that I'm just,my mind is blown.
How?
Cause I, I, you know, dad too,watch my wife.

(06:56):
Yeah.

I get that reaction a lot, but it's
interesting.
So I have four kids.
My first three, I was working incorporate jobs, structured they
were in daycare and it was verystructured.
And then with my fourth, I didfind out I was pregnant right
when I was just about to launchthe company.
And so a couple impacts, one isI gave myself like a nine month

(07:18):
timeline basically, where I waslike, I got to get this product
out the door so that I at leasthave a little bit of breathing
room.
in the newborn phase, where it'slike, at least it's out.
So I found that helpful becauseit was like a deadline imposed
upon myself.
But pros and cons.
I mean, when I think about thattime running a business in the
newborn, it was not stressful.
I think the reaction people haveis like, Oh my gosh, that's so

(07:40):
stressful.
How'd you do it?
So difficult.
I don't remember it feeling thatway.
And I think it's because whenyou own your own business,
you're calling the shot.
It's like, if you want to do thework, do the work.
If you want to do the work at 10p.
m., do the work at 10 p.
m.
If you want to do the work whileyou're breastfeeding, do the
work while you're breastfeeding.
It's like you can control it.
So it didn't feel like incorporate where maybe you're

(08:00):
only working 9 to 5, but you'rereally stressed because you want
to go to your kid's soccer game,and you have a meeting that goes
until 5, and you can't get outof it.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Right.

You're like a victim almost of it, whereas, In
the other, in the vitaminysense, I didn't really take any
time off, but it felt better tome.
And I don't know if that's apersonal thing, or if that

would be true for everyone, but, also, Leslie, not
that, you know, not that youasked for the marketing advice,
but the answer should just be,it was really simple.
I just took my vitaminies and myenergy was so good.
It's like somebody's podcast upand they're like, you're like,
and I had more energy than I'veever had in my life.
And I would say, I could havedone this twice.

I, you know, it's funny though.
I really do think like, youknow, people talk about self
care and it's like, what isthat?
It's like a manicure.
I think basic self care istaking care of your nutrition
because you do feel better andsleeping and drinking water.
It's like not that hard, but itdoes make a difference.

It does.
Yeah.
And as somebody who also pivotedfrom a corporate career to
running my own thing, the brainrequired to run your own
business, arguably, I think ismore, for my, is the capacity to
be sharp in the mind.
Because the decisions are all onyou versus like you said, you
work in corporate, you've gotone thing you need to be really
good at, but then you've gotdepartments that do all these

(09:11):
other things.
And now it's like, you're the,like you said, you're the,
You're the, you're the marketer,you're the social media manager.
You're all these, you're thenutrition person.
You're also the person who hasto clean up the customer service
things.
And that takes a lot of brainspace because you're context
switching.
And most corporate jobs, you'renot context switching all day.

Totally.
And I'd add two more things toit.

The other

thing I would add is it's like an
accountability thing.
Like in corporate.
It doesn't matter how driven youare.
There's a part of you that'slike, well, I did my part.
You know, I did my part

totally.

You know, it's not your checks

coming.

Yep.
And you, and like, if it doesn'twork out, you know, it's not
like all you, but like in yourown business, it is all you.
So that's one thing that'sdraining.
That's almost like an emotionaldrain.
And the other thing that I thinkis.
Challenging that I didn't reallyappreciate is in corporate.
There's a lot, we talk about itas like shade.
I remember talking about it.
It's like, there's a lot ofshade, make a mistake,

(10:04):
weaknesses, whatever.
There's a lot of shade to getaway with if you will that, but
in your own business, you livewith the consequences of every
single decision.
So it's like, let's say youprocrastinate a lot or you're
impulsive or you have a temperand you snap at a vendor or
something like it's all rightthere.
Which I personally I'm thankfulfor that.
Cause like how often do you getto really grow like that, but

(10:26):
it's hard to face all of thatand grow personally while you're
doing all the work.
It's challenging.

It is.
Before we kind of move into whatyou're up to now I'd love to
spend a couple minutes on thepartnership required with your
family to make this all worktoo.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah.
This

is, cause this isn't, this isn't just you.
Running a business.
This is a family decision.
You've got children.
I don't know if you have apartner or not, but like, this
is a family thing.
This is not just you going, Hey,mom's going to go do this.
So how I love to talk about kindof your thought process with
that.
If you're with a partner, howthat went and then how you're
able to get everybody.

(11:01):
On the same page with that.
Cause that's a big shift.
And I say, this is somebody whoalso made the shift to my wife
works in corporate.
I worked in corporate when wemet and then I did my own thing
and she still works incorporate.
So it's a team decision.

It is like multiple levels to it, but I
married and my husband and Iactually met in college at the
Chicago entrepreneurial group.
So we were sitting beingentrepreneurs.
We met in this club.
He went on and did theentrepreneurial thing pretty
much right away.
And I did the corporate thing.
Sure.
And then in these circumstances,we have explicit conversation

(11:35):
where I was like, Hey, I thinkthis could be a chance for me to
actually explore thisentrepreneurial thing I've
always wanted to do.
And he was like, okay, yeah.
So we kind of like had thatdiscussion.
It's almost like turn taking orsomething like that.

Speaker 5 (11:47):
Yeah.

So that was part of it.
I'd say the other thing too, is.
We bootstrapped.
So there's a financialinvestment part of it too.
And the way we manage that sideof things.
Is just breaking off littlechunks.
It's like, okay, we're going toput a little bit in, see if it
works.
And if it does work, we'll put alittle bit more.
So it wasn't like an enormousbet all at once.

(12:09):
Sure.
Like you can just quit at anytime, you know, and you just
kind of take it as

Speaker 3 (12:12):
a

test.
And then the third thing is Ithink one mistake people make
when they're doing their ownthing is they think they can
like kind of do it on the sideor like do it in their free
time, but you can't, you know,this, so like that was the other
thing is.
Having three kids and now four,I cannot watch four kids and run
a business.
So like keeping all thatinfrastructure in place, I mean,

(12:36):
after COVID, obviously wheneverything was gone, but you
know, having childcare,continuing to outsource the
things that we outsourced when Iwas in corporate, because I
can't take on all that extrastuff and do this.
So that's.
I think that's something peopledon't necessarily think of, but
you have to take it seriously.
Like if you're going to do it,you have to treat it like it's a
real job.
Otherwise it will never becomemore than a hobby.

I don't know if, do you watch shark tank at all?

A little bit.

That's, that's one of the, that's one of the
filters for most of the sharkson there is they'll say, Hey,
are you doing this full time?
And somebody is like, well, I'vealso made it.
They go, I'm not interested ininvesting because they just,
they, like you said, they knowthat you can, you know, like
you're taking investor money atany, you can, yeah, it's not for
me.
And then the investors leftholding the bag with a out of
business business.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah.

Versus like, we've actually bet our family
has bet something on this thing.

Yeah.

And that's important.
Yeah.

Right.
No, totally.
And even if you don't quit, itjust can never be as big as it
could have been if you haddedicated.
And it's funny.
I actually went back to work fora short period of time during
Vitamin Ease and I thought atthe time that I could kind of
keep going and, and looking backon it, yeah, it was going, but
when I went back full time onit, I achieved so much more.

(13:53):
Obviously, I mean, yeah, well,

yeah,

yeah, it's and also,

and also the idea that when you have a corporate
job, like, I don't know if youhad to like go into a conference
room and hide you're doing workon vitamin E is when you're
doing your job or your boss islike, Hey, can we talk?
And you had like, it's somethingto do with vitamin.
It's just be my experience ofthat is it would just, it just
becomes stressful.
And it's not good for yourmentally.
Cause you're, I mean, and soyou're serving two masters.

(14:19):
And you also know, and likehighly likely, Leslie, you were
way more passionate about.
Your business.
Then you worry about yourcorporate job because it was
your thing.

Naturally.
Right.
Yeah.

Yeah, naturally.
Very cool.
So let's talk about funding.
So you said you and your husbandwere bootstrapped it.
Did you end up, have you endedup raising any capital for the
business?

Yes.
So we basically had an amountthat we felt comfortable putting
into it.
And then especially now thatvitamin E's is into retail,
that's a whole nother level offunding.
Cause you're funding a lot ofinventory.
A lot of these retailers requirea big upfront investment just to
get in the door and then supportthem with marketing.
So it's different when it's likea little kind of website

(15:01):
business growing ground upversus retail is bigger.
So I have now raised angelround.
I'm in the process actuallyright now.
And it started with friends andfamily, cause those are the
people that know you the bestand take those bigger risks.
But now bringing on more angelsthat I don't know, but I've just
pitched them, they get it, theysee the potential.
So it does shift things quite abit mentally.

(15:22):
It's like, Oh.
Now, people that I don't evenknow are putting their backing
behind it.
It's, it's exciting.
Cause it means I've builtsomething that people believe in
besides just me and my friends.
But it's also puts a little bitof pressure on and it just
changes the feel a little bit.

Yeah.
It changes the feel.
It's not totally your businessanymore.
Got to put people like, Hey,how, Hey quarterly, we want to
know how this is going.

Yes.
I'm trying to get ahead of thatby doing those updates
proactively.
But yeah, it's different.
It's good though.
Cause it forces you to be alittle bit more buttoned up.

Totally.
But yeah, and the idea that, andyou said this as a, without the
accountability and it wouldn'tstay on your business, you can
like, I don't know, I know lastquarter wasn't that good.
I'm not going to look at thenumbers today, but like people
are going to want to know thenumbers when they put money in.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah.
So

let's, so going into that now, what.
You mentioned retail.
How did you know it was time togo into retail?

Speaker 3 (16:18):
It's a really good question.
Well, because

that's a, that's a, well, because that's a, and
I'm just from working with a lotof entrepreneurs and watching
Shark Tank a lot.
This is a question they get alot on Shark Tank too, because
it is a beast, right?
Like the big, the big purchaseorders, the scale, Especially,
you know, and I don't know whereyou're distributing right now,
but depending on the retailer,they have these, they have these

(16:41):
extremely strict requirementsaround a variety of ways that
they'll even write you a checkfor a dollar because they needed
to know that it fits into their,into their 3PL and their
logistics system as well.

Totally.
No, it's a really good question.
And I wish I could say I had itall mapped out from the
beginning, but.
The reality is, when I launchedin the, around the pandemic
time, there was no choice but togo into e commerce.
Like, that's just where you hadto go.
But because everyone was doingthat, the price of doing paid
acquisition online, so socialmedia marketing, search
marketing is so expensive.

(17:13):
The number of sticks in my headwhen I looked into it was 6 a
click.
So, so it, and that's not even apurchase.
That's just a click.
So it's brutal.
It made no sense.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
So

so I was doing grassroots, like sampling word
of mouth, slowly buildingwithout paying for any
customers.
And it was just really, reallyslow.
So I remember, I think it waslike around the one year mark.
I added up.
You know, all the sales, it was18 months and I could count on
my fingers how many thousands,it was so small and I thought I

(17:45):
can either, I either have todump a bunch of money into
advertising or I need to go intoretail.
It was like, I have to dosomething to take it to the next
level, but I, the other thingthought that was happening is
when I started the business, Ididn't know, I don't think
anyone knew if people are evengoing to go back to shopping in
person.
But by the time this 18 monthspoint came, it was very clear
that when it comes to food andbeverages especially, people

(18:07):
want to go to the grocery store.
They like going to the grocerystore.
They want to taste it.
They want to look at it.
They want to touch it.
And online, you're buying a 12pack of vitamin E's.
In the store, you're buying one.
So it's like a very, it's aneasier entry point to try it.
And so I knew that was the wayto go as opposed to just dumping
a bunch of money into ecommerce.
I thought, okay, the pandemic isa couple of years behind us.

(18:29):
Now people are going back to thestore.
You have to be omnichannel.
So we ended up launching thesesingles in store and they have a
QR code on them.
Okay.
So if you like it, you know, youspend 5 on this, you like it,
you scan the code, you drop youremail on our website.
We can funnel you to a 12 pack,which is 49.
99 and a subscription.

(18:49):
So it's kind of like this nice.

That's very cool, Leslie.
I always love to ask anybodythat interview who's an
entrepreneur, a variety ofquestions.
So if you've listened to anyepisodes, you might know these,
but I want to first ask you why?
And I think you've answered alot of this because it matters
to you and your family is what Iheard in your answer.
Yeah.
Oh, you know, why?

(19:13):
Why?
Why?
Why?
Why Vitamins?
Like.
What is it that's so inspiringfor you about it?

I mean, the nutrition, I really do believe
that like good nutrition solvesa lot of problems, but it's
really hard to do it on yourown, like with food and even
with the supplements out there.
So I just felt like the worldneeded an easy, tasty, fun
thing.
To just integrate into your dietto make you feel like okay, I'm
getting a little bit extra I'mchecking some of these boxes.

(19:40):
I don't have to stress.
I didn't have to suffer.
It's not another chore.
It's like a fun tasty clean wayAnd I didn't see anything out
that like that out there.
It was either like pills,vitamin pills, or buy a juicer
and juice all your stuff fromscratch.
There was no kind of like cleanmiddle ground.
And it was what I needed.
So it was like one of those truestories.

(20:02):
Serving my needs.
And maybe there's some otherpeople out there that need that
too.

Yeah.
I la I la I was, you saw melaugh about the juicer.
I'm like, anybody who has afamily is like, we're not
juicing.
That is time, but also theamount, the amount of, the
amount of storage and then themess that it makes, like, it's
just not a thing.
So I think you answered mysecond question is what problem
does it solve?
Cause you know, every productdoes.

(20:26):
So like, let's expand upon thata little bit.
What are some of the, you know,The changing trends and demands,
but also what problems thissolve.
Cause there, this is a crowdedspace.
Just going to say it.
There's a ton of things.
There's whole stores called GNCthat sell, and some of them are
not going to be competition.
All they're like, you know,protein powders, but you can
walk in and there's a variety ofproducts on the same.

(20:46):
So what makes like, what's theproblem that vitamin E is
uniquely solves.

So I think overall consumers are getting
more educated about nutritionand health and wellness and more
people know and it's funnybecause I live, I live in this,
but I forget sometimes theaverage American maybe doesn't
even think about vitamins,doesn't even think about it, but
over time we're moving that way.
So people are understanding,they take care of their body,
they eat better, they need to beclean and take, you know,

(21:11):
vitamins and that kind of thing.
But at the same time, theexisting options are difficult.
Like not everybody is going toget the juicer and do all the
whole foods.
Supplements are tough.
Like pills are hard to swallow.
It's a chore.
You forget to do it.
They make you sick.
I heard they sometimes will evenstick to your stomach lining.
And when they do colonoscopies,they're like finding pills.
Like

the biding.
Oh, that's gross.
Yeah.

They're just not natural and they have all these
ingredients.
that help with the manufacturingprocess that people don't want
to eat.
People are reading labels nowmore.
Gummies, tons of sugar.
Sugar is like the new enemy,right?
Public enemy 101 now.
So that's the problem withgummies.
They are maybe tasty and easy,but you're eating candy every
single day.
And then in terms of like shots,there's a lot of other shots out

(21:56):
there.
If you're looking for that likequick juice shot, but they are
often very, very strong flavorslike ginger, turmeric, pepper,
and they require refrigeration.
See you have to.
Yeah, drink them right away orquickly.
And by the way, that annoys theretailers as much as it annoys
the people.
'cause like these shots, theygotta move them out so quickly.
So vitamin solves a lot of thoseproblems.
It's easy, tasty.

(22:18):
It's basically orange pineapplejuice.
This one's a berry banana, soit's fruit.
Mm-Hmm.
No refrigeration required, nomystery ingredients, easily
digested.
Some of the digestion and thenutrient absorption can happen
in your mouth.
Like right when you start, it'sgoing in.
That's cool.

Yeah.

So it just checks a lot of those problems
off the list.

Speaker (22:36):
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So I'm going to ask you this and we're just
getting to know each other, butI didn't, I heard you have a,
you have a, a hospitality.
You did some hospitality work.
And I think you said consumerpackaged goods.
I haven't heard you say anythingabout being a food scientist.

No, I'm not.
And actually that is where I'vehad to outsource a bit.
That's what I

was going to

ask you about for this.
Yeah.
And then, but you're right.
I mean, there's a lot oftechnicalities about like, when
you say food science, likethere's like a chemistry
stability, like shelf stableprocess point of view, but
there's also like the regulatoryside of things and label claims.
And those two areas I've had tooutsource, but it's funny.

(24:00):
The food scientist said, I'veworked with a couple now.
And it's funny how you realizewhy a lot of products on the
market are the way they are.
You know, I said, okay, we wantno added sugar.
We want no mystery goodies, likelaying out what I need.
We need these vitamins.
And what came back had addedsugar or sweeteners in it or
colors.
And I look at them like, Oh,this is great.

(24:20):
What, wait a second.
I thought we saw, we were goingto do that.
And it's like, Oh,

Speaker 3 (24:23):
you have

to, you have to add sugar or people won't buy it
or you have to add color.
Yeah, it really is.
Like the vision is importantbecause you have to kind of push
against all of the structuralblocks to do something
different.

Yeah.
Well, and so there, it was alittle bit of a leading
question.
The reason, reason I'm asking isI'm sure people are listening or
probably have great ideas forfood products.
And I wanted to highlight you assomebody, you don't need to be a
food scientist.
You just need to know what youwant and then you outsource it.
And full disclosure, my motherin law is a food scientist.
She worked at Kellogg's, so shedid cereal and she did a lot of

(24:58):
the, she was the person that themarketers go, we want to say
this about our stuff.
And she'd go, you can't saythat.
You can't say that worked withthe FDA.
And then she wrapped up hercareer at in Chicago at DMI,
which is a dairy dairymanagement Institute.
They do all the gut milk stuff.
They represent the dairy farmersof America and did a lot of food
science.
And she is a food scientist, butshe's not a visionary.

(25:20):
Because I think, like, my, whenI hear about food products, a
lot of times I think about, andthis is my own, Assumption about
it's my own bias, I guess, islike, Oh, this person like knows
a lot about food, but you justknow what you want for you.
And for your family, you knowenough about taste and like what
vitamins you want, but you don'tneed to know all these things.

I think it's a great point.
I'm glad you brought that upbecause

yeah,

there are a thousand things you could tell
yourself that would tell you,you can't do it.

Right.
I'm not a food scientist.
I don't know how to do it.
Yeah.

You know, I have kids.
I don't have time.
I don't understand this.
I don't understand that.
I don't know what to do.
I'm too busy.
Yeah, that's normal.
I think for people to kind offace all of that, but there, you
don't need any of that stuff.
And even me, I mean, I worked inthe alcohol industry, which is a
completely different industry.
People think, Oh, you must'veknown what to do because you
worked in the alcohol industry.

(26:11):
No, it's completely different.
And I was in corporate in a likelittle role.
I wasn't doing everything and Iwasn't in.
juices, supplements or anything.
I didn't deal with the FDA atall.
So yeah, I think it's great thatyou point that out because if
you really are passionate, youwant to get something done, you
just got to figure it out.
You're going to figure it out.

Yeah.
And there's people that can helpyou along the way.
Also, I was, I had a smile aboutthe alcohol because alcohol is
self shelf shelf stable bydefinition, isn't it?
Because it's

Speaker 3 (26:36):
like alcohol keeps it

clean.
Keeps it clean.
So let's talk about challengesyou've had.
Again, my own assumption, I amnot a food person in terms of
like, I don't have a passion forcreating food product.
To me, it seems hard tomanufacture at a, at a way
that's cost effective.

(26:59):
Like that's my outward thing.
And again, I just keep goingback to Shark Tank for this one,
because they get a lot of foodproducts on there.
And a lot of the time, the bigthing they need money for is to
reduce the cost ofmanufacturing, to get it to To
get it to a place where peoplewill go, Oh, that's competitive
enough.
That I'll, I'll buy that.
And maybe it can, you know, likeyou, like I can buy kombucha.

(27:21):
Kombucha juice is probably insome ways a competition to your
product.
Cause it's shelves it's in therefrigeration, but it's like,
yeah, right.
Probiotics and the idea that weneed to get it to a cost where
you can then mass market it asopposed to like certain people
don't care.
They're like, that's the productfor me and my family.
We have lots of disposableincome.

(27:41):
But we also know here in theUnited States, I think worldwide
and greed, inflation, inflationin the food market is a little
out of control.
So.
You know, what are some thingsthat you've learned having to go
out and get this, you know, bothboth put together and created
like the recipe, but then you'vehad to have it go manufactured?
What are some things you'velearned about that process?

Yes it's a really great question, cause
that is, That is where a lot ofthe hard work happens.
It's not like you just have anidea and it just I think when I
look back and a lot of this islike me reflecting in hindsight
But you really have to take along view because when you're
first starting out co packersowe you nothing.

(28:23):
They're not going to signcontracts.
They're not going to give youthe best pricing.
They're not going to prioritizeyou.
You're literally just astranger.
You know?
And so a lot of the earlystages, you are pitching
yourself and your product tothem.
You are like trying to win aspot.
You know, it's not like, Oh, Ihave this great product.
Who wants to get it?

(28:43):
You know, you're lucky you.
No.
So that's one thing I think it'sjust like a mindset shift that
these people are running theirbusinesses.
They have these giant productionlines and for them to stop
production and move it over to,to manufacture, whatever random
thing you came up with, that'sunproven is a big ask.
So that's part of it.
And then the same thing goeswith pricing.
You know my first productions ofboth products were not

(29:05):
profitable.
I think they

Speaker 3 (29:06):
were

about break even.
That's okay though, because I,A, convinced my co packer to do
a small run.
Cause I didn't, I knew I didn'twant to make 30, 000 bottles.
I just wanted to make 5, 000 andthey, so they were like, listen,
this is only worth our time ifwe charge you a higher price,
but it was worth it to me.
Cause it's basically aninvestment to figure out, get it

(29:29):
in the market, see if peoplelike it, whatever.
So that is the other thing withtaking the long view is.
You're not going to have thebest margins on day one.
You might not even make a dimeon day one.
And this is, I don't know iflike, this is true for everyone
because I know some otherbusiness types, people are able
to get great margins right away,but at least for shots and like
beverage production, it'sdifficult.

(29:51):
Like that, that margin comeswith scale.

Yeah.
And as a there, there, to me,there's like a psychological
barrier of pricing over acertain amount when you're
buying like a shot of somethingor some sort of health drink
where Like to me, there's just apsychological barrier, even if
you can afford it, that like,there's a price point you kind
of need to hit to have like my,like me and my wife walk in and
go, Oh, I'd like to get some ofthose for our family.

(30:15):
And this makes sense for ourfamily.

Yeah, it's exactly right.
Like you can't, you can't chargewhat you want to get or what you
think you should get.
You have to charge what peopleare going to pay.

Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's all about the value.
Leslie, what about.
Let's ask the big question.
What do your kids think of it?

Oh yeah, they love it.
They're very involved.

That's so cool.

I have four kids.
One of my four is very, verypicky and sometimes they'll
drink vitamin E's and sometimesyou won't.
So full confession, not all ofthem love, love, love it.
But the other ones do, they liketo hear about the business side
of things.
They like to see it in themarket.
They love when their friendsbring it to school, their
lunches.
And my two year old loves them.
She'll get like a little strawand just like, sip them right

(30:56):
out of the bottle.
That's so

Speaker 3 (30:58):
cool.

Yeah.
It's fun.
It's nice to work on somethingthat I can like talk to the kids
about, which I didn't really dothat in my prior career.
So

sure.
Yeah.
You weren't talking to your kidsabout alcohol business,

right?
Or if you are, you're alwayslike, you're like,

yeah, mommy helps do these things that.
Adults drink.

Yeah.
You want tequila.
It's really great.
Wait, no, it isn't.
I don't know.
No, no,

no, not it's great.
When you turn 21 until then.
Not at all.
Do you, are there, are your kidsinvolved in the business at all?
Like, do they come in and like,do you teach them anything about
what you're doing?

Not a ton, but I will have them do photo shoots
or we do sampling sometimes atlike their sporting events or
things like that.
Nice.
I try to keep it.
Yeah.

And does your husband involve, does your
husband get involved in thebusiness at all?

A little bit.
I joke with him that he's likemy biggest investor, my biggest
like, you know, board member orwhatever.
But I think we both likemutually, it's got kind of like
a separation of church and statea little bit.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
So on

occasion, I'll ask him for advice on something
and definitely have him tastelike samples and things like
that.
Or, you know, maybe he has anintroduction to something in the
entrepreneur world that might behelpful.
But for the most part, try notto, I try to keep it like a
little bit separate.
So it doesn't overshadow my lifeeither, by the way.

Yes, my wife and I have a very similar thing.
Too much involvement is not, hasnot been great for our marriage
either.
So we're like, you're like,yeah, a little bit, but also a
separation.

Totally.

What are some of the, what are the, some of the
things that were surprising toyou?
As you have gone through yourentrepreneurial journey that
nobody, because I know you're,you're well educated, you've got
it, had a great corporatecareer, but there's just some
things you don't get taughtperiod.
Like you just like, it's onlythe school of hard knocks.
What are some things that you'velearned since starting this

(32:49):
business that Like nobody couldhave taught you.
And I was like, well, and I'llsay this too, Leslie, I laugh
about this because you and Icould go walk into a Barnes and
Noble and see shelves uponshelves of how on how to like
start a business, run a goodbusiness, all these strategies,
you can get your MBA.
I know you have your MBA, allthese things, but there are
things that you have learnedthat you can never read about

(33:11):
period.

Yeah.

Isn't it crazy?
Yeah.

Yeah.
I know.
That's why I gotta write thebook.

Yeah.
So what, so what are, so whatare the, what are the, some of
the things that you've learnedthat you're like, well, I didn't
really know that this was goingto be a thing as I went out and
had this journey.

Yes.
So on that note, just ingeneral, like some things you
literally cannot learn until yougo through it.
So it doesn't matter.
Even if it wasn't a book, youcould read it and be like, Oh
yeah, I get that.
And then you're like, Oh, sothere's that.
I think one thing is I thoughtstarting a business was just
about hard work.
People are like, Oh, starting abusiness is so hard.

(33:46):
I'm like, Oh, I can work hard.
I've worked hard all my life.
I can work harder than the restof them.
That is not the hard part.
I mean, it is hard work, but thehard part is.
Kind of managing the uncertaintyand the mentalness of it because
I realize a lot of what we do inlife is to cut down on
uncertainty, maybe I'm speakingfor myself.
A lot of what I do, I plan, Iorganize, I try to stay on top

(34:08):
of things because I like to knowwhat's gonna happen, like
uncertainty is scary.
There is absolutely no way youcan get away from that in your
own business.
There is a huge amount ofuncertainty.
Still, day one there was sixmonths in, now I'm two and a
half years in, there's still alot.
And it's, it's nerve wracking.
Like, is this going to work out?
Whatever, all of it is, is, am Igoing to get this account?

(34:31):
Am I going to be able to getthis done?
And is this going to be receivedwell?
So that has been verychallenging and I did not expect
that.
The, like the, the uncertaintyof being able to just accept the
journey.
Like whether this works out ornot, I'm having fun and I'm glad
I did it and I'm learning a lot.
It's like that whole kind ofrepositioning and living with
that is.

(34:52):
That was a big lesson for me.
The other thing, when you askthe question that I used to
think differently, I used tothink when it came to starting a
company, you just have to have agood idea.
Just have a good idea.
And then you can have company.
It's actually like, part of itis your idea.
And almost all of it is justnitty gritty day to day work.
Just not even sexy stuff, butjust like the nitty gritty,

(35:13):
because the reality is my ideathat I had for vitamin E's.
It's different now because I'malways learning.
I'm adjusting.
I've adjusted the formula.
I've adjusted the packaging.
I've adjusted my sales channels,which we talked about.
So yeah, you can't, you need agood idea, but do you really?
I mean, there are so manystories about entrepreneurs that
had one idea and pivoted tosomething completely different.

(35:34):
So it's all, it's like, it'slike 5 percent idea and like 95
percent just coming back,learning from what goes well and
what goes poorly, continuing toevolve and not giving up.

Yeah, I was, I was mentioned to you.
I was, I had another interviewthis morning and we were talking
and ended up with a verysuccessful exit and he was
talking about his first failure.
And how he, he looking back now,it was his ego.
He was so right in his mindabout the way this thing had to
be.
And it was a tech and it's a, itwas a technical product.

(36:08):
So he was convinced it had to bethis way.
And he was like anal about the,the way it operated and they
launched it.
And nobody liked it because hedidn't ask anybody and he didn't
iterate.
And so he's like, he's like,that's a really tough and
expensive lesson to learn as anentrepreneur.
And I don't think in the foodindustry, you can even do that.
You can't really launch a foodproduct without focus groups and

(36:29):
having people taste it, like,because like.
I mean, I guess you could, butI, you know, like the big food
companies, as I know, I, I read,I think it was fat, sugar, salt,
they talk about like, like evenlike lunchables.
Oh,

the big companies wouldn't.
Yeah, the big companies.
Oh,

yeah.
But yeah, like small companiesare like, oh, this is what
people want, but then they tasteit and they're like, this isn't
good.
Right?

Yeah.

But even in that

example of that guy you're talking about some
people might've called it, youknow, Quits at that point.
Okay.
I tried it.
Yeah.
It didn't work out.
I'm done.
Yeah.
Well, just the ability to kindof come back and iterate and try
again is actually what made himsuccessful because the
alternative would have been.
Just stop.

Yeah.
Well, Leslie, what he did, andit sounds like it's probably
what you're doing as well withyour sales channels is what he
actually did, Is he pivotingcompletely in his next business?
He went door knocking at WeWorksand it's a, it's a swag like t
shirt company went door knockingat WeWorks actually sat in a
room and said, Hey, could youjust give me some feedback on
the quality of this t shirt?
What do you think about thisdesign?

(37:26):
Hey, would you order from thiswebsite?

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Hmm.

And people go, yes, no, maybe so.
And you take the, and he isiterating and iterating and
iterating until you havesomething beautiful.
Like what I'm, I'm guessingyou've done is like, Hey, taste
is for me like honey, myhusband.
But also you don't want it just'cause your husband's biased.
Of course.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
Yeah.

And he's either, but like, Hey, like, like I
said, have your kids try it.
Have your kids' friends try it.
Like what do you think of this?
What does it taste like?
And being able to iterate and dothat to go like, oh, this is the
thing.

Totally.

Because, yeah, no matter, I mean, I think this is
one thing that's pretty muchproven in the food market.
You can have, you could, I thinkyou could create something that
arguably could be the healthiestthing ever created if it doesn't
taste good.
Most people aren't going to eat,aren't going to do it.

Yes, and that is something I did learn from my
time in alcohol and beveragesthat apply is we called it
liquid to lips.
Like taste is key, it has totaste good and then people have
to kind of believe that it'sgiving them the value.
Yeah.
So if you can kind of get it totaste good and it delivers that
value, they don't think theythink it's worth it.
That's it.
Then you're done.

And then also depending on the type of
products, like the mouthfeel ofit.
Like, what does it feel likewhen it's like that?
That sensation of it is just,it's just, it's a, it's
fascinating.
Well, Leslie, as we wrap uphere, let's talk a little bit
about what's next for you andfor the company, what you all
are up to.
And then of course, where can wefind, obviously you said the

(38:52):
website, but you said you're inretail now.
So let's talk about what are thedifferent places that people can
go and.
Consume and delight themselveswith vitamin ease.

Yeah.
Well, my favorite place is ourwebsite, vitamin ease, brand.
com.
I love to have that directrelationship with consumers that
are a higher profit

and a higher profit margin.
Let's be very clear.
That's also nice.

Shipping, you know, of course

yeah,

because then you can get on our email list, we
send great emails every weekwith recipes, educational
content about your gut anddifferent vitamins and what they
do for you.
So.
That's the best place.
Drop your email, send youcoupon.
But aside from that, we are onAmazon and we just launched on
Walmart marketplace.
So those are kind of like ifyou're a Walmart marketplace
shopper and Amazon shopper, it'seasy.

(39:35):
Like I use Amazon a lot.
So if that's easier for you,great.
It's subscribe and savewhatever.
And then in brick and mortar, weare in two chains in the
Midwest, fresh time farmer'smarket and the fruitful yield.
So that's about 80 locations inChicago area in the Midwest.
Where you can find us in thevitamin section.

Very cool.
Not to get into the too manydetails is obviously a private
company, but have, I'm moreinterested in your opinion on
how have the, how have you feltabout your channels now that
you've gone into retail in termsof like the percentages and have
you had any surprises there?
Or like, has it been, I'm justcurious, like how you feel about
that as the owner.

Well, I think on the retail side of things, I
don't think I realize there's alot of almost mandatory spend
built into it, so you've gotyour distributor.
And then the distributor alsowants you to promote through
them.
Like, Hey, buy a table at our,our show and pay to advertise on
the distributor website.
Then you've got the retailer.
They, they have a lot of bakedin promotions.
Okay.
We've got four sales a year.

(40:34):
We require you to fund thispercent discount.
I didn't realize that.
I thought it was moreautonomous.
Like, okay, I'd like to put myproduct on sale.
Or I like to advertise, but itreally is built in like you were
almost required.
So that informed my pricing tosome extent, actually ended up
raising my price because I knewthat just would build some

(40:55):
buffer for discounts that aregoing to happen anyway.
Sure.
Yeah.
Consumers are going to get it atthat price anyway, but then it
allows me to kind of appeaseeverybody along the, along the
path.

Yeah.
Yeah.
It's such a complex industry.

Yeah.
And some of it, you just kind ofdon't know until you get into
it.
Like we said, you can read it athousand times, but until you

get into it.
Like here's how you do businesswith Amazon and then Amazon or
Walmart decides that week tochange their policy around
something.
You're like, Oh, that's all outthe door.
Now I've got a new thing.
I have, I have, I have friendswho work at Walmart and Amazon
and the e commerce space, so Iunderstand they're always
changing policies around andsuch as sellers and there's
obviously they're always tryingto tweak their business model
too, just like you're tweakingyours.

(41:33):
Well, Leslie, I want to.
Thank you for coming on, sharingwith us all these things.
Thank you for putting out aproduct that makes a difference
in the world to keep ushealthier.
I think it's so, it's so easyto, to not, and we're just,
yeah.
And I think you're just a reallygood example of someone who saw
something that they wanted fortheir family, which just one

(41:55):
more time, go back to SharkTank, so many of the products on
Shark Tank.
Are because they're like, Oh,well, my, my family wanted this.
I saw this would be valuable formy family.
And you're like, Oh, wait,there's a business here.
And next thing, you know, nextthing, you know, maybe we'll see
you on shark tank, who knows, ormaybe we'll see you on, maybe
we'll see you somewhere else orwhatever, whatever's next for
vitamin.
He's a really appreciate yourtime today.
Thanks so much for coming on andbest wishes to you and the

(42:16):
family.

Thank you very much.

Thanks so much, Leslie.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Talking to
Cool People with Jason Frizzell.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please tell your friends, follow
us on Instagram and Facebook,and give us a shout out, or take
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If something from today'sepisode piqued your interest and
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(42:44):
com.
We love hearing from ourlisteners because you're cool
people too.

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Leslie Danford - Founder and CEO of Vitaminis

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Leslie Danford - Founder and CEO of Vitaminis