April 16, 2025 • 40 mins
How does a girl from a small Indian factory town become the CTO of a thriving U.S. tech company? In this inspiring and honest conversation, Shubhangi Srivastava—“Shoey” to her friends—shares her powerful journey from her humble beginnings to leading as a woman in tech at NEP Services. We dive into the cultural shift of moving to the U.S., her early challenges in tech, and the moments of burnout that shaped her leadership approach.
If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to rise through the ranks in a fast-moving, male-dominated industry—or how to stay true to your roots while building a bold future—you’ll love Shoey’s grounded wisdom and practical insights.
“Burnout isn’t just being tired. It’s when even your passion feels like a burden.”
Shubhangi Srivastava is chief technology officer of NEP Services. A visionary leader with deep technical expertise, Shubhangi is the driving force behind the creation and launch of Connect Plus+, NEP’s employee management and empowerment solution. She not only architected the platform, overseeing it from concept to reality, but also spearheaded its intuitive design and led a cross-functional team to overcome technical challenges and ultimately achieve the project’s goals. Shubhangi began her career at NEP as a web developer and received several promotions leading to her current position as CTO. She is an advocate for women in STEM, serving as a mentor for girls pursuing STEM careers. Shubhangi holds a Master’s Degree in Computer Science from California State University, Long Beach, and a Bachelor of Technology in Computer Science and Engineering from SRM University in India.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Frazell (00:12):
Everybody.
My guest today is Sanghi Triva.
Sanghi is the CTO of NEPservices, and we're gonna talk
about a variety of things.
Today we're gonna talk aboutworking in tech.
We're gonna talk about being awoman leader in tech.
We're gonna talk about burnoutin tech.
So for those of you listeningwho are interested in tech or
(00:35):
women in leadership, we're gonnatalk about all those things and
sh and forever you'll be knownas shoey.
We're gonna call you Shoey fromthis point as you gave us
permission to, I'm sure we'll betalking about some other things.
We don't even know what we'retalking about yet.
So welcome, so good to have youhere today.
Shubhangi Srivastava (00:48):
Thank you.
I'm, I'm happy to be here.
Happy to talk to you.
Glad that I can be of service toanyone out there who's looking
to dive deeper into the world oftechnology.
Jason Frazell (00:58):
Yes.
Awesome.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna own thisfor the audience.
I don't know when we're gonnarelease this, but we are
recording this on election dayhere in the United States.
Yeah.
Tuesday, November 5th.
And there's some stuff going on,and you and I have decided,
let's just record a podcastbecause why not?
Because we've done our, we'vedone what we need to do and
there's nothing we can do tochange of, so we're gonna record
(01:20):
a podcast and have a greatconversation, and we're doing it
on election day here in theUnited States.
Shubhangi Srivastava (01:25):
That's what democracy's about.
You know,
Jason Frazell (01:27):
that's what democracy's about.
We do our, we do whatever weneed to do, and then we go in.
And we wake and we'll wake uptomorrow and the next day and
the next day and keep doing ourthing.
Awesome.
So before we get into some ofthe conversations, point points
that I just mentioned, whatwould you like us to know about
you?
I.
Shubhangi Srivastava (01:43):
Let's just go dive into a little bit of a
background.
I, like Jason said, I'm Chubi.
Born and brought up in India.
I came from a, come from a verysmall town in the north part of
India, and did my school there,did my bachelor's there in
computer science and engineeringfor about four years.
I've worked for a year in India.
(02:03):
And then I moved to UnitedStates at the prime age of I
believe about 21.
Mm-hmm.
And decided to dive further intoscience and technology and do my
master's in computer science andengineering.
And I did that from California,Cal State Long Beach.
Mm-hmm.
And then I joined NEP after mygraduation.
(02:24):
So I've been at the same companyever since, which is a very,
very.
Contentious point for a lot ofpeople in technology.
'cause people are, yes, it isvery, very, you know, fast paced
switcher people and I'm I'm, I'man anomaly in that world.
I, I like to see through thethings that I've started and
(02:44):
that that's how I joined iep.
And I joined as a softwareengineer and currently like.
Jason Frazell (02:51):
CTO.
So you've had a nice climb.
First, first pointed question,so you said a very small town.
How small was the town that yougrew up in?
Shubhangi Srivastava (02:59):
Very small.
We, you know, when I place Igrew up, it's, it's basically a
factory.
It was a factory town.
Mm-hmm.
And Dan, everyone else in thattown goes, used to go to the
same place to work.
Mm-hmm.
We, we would, you know, theywould all wear their uniforms at
8:00 AM in the morning.
There'd be a siren.
Everyone's gonna go into thefactories and they're gonna come
back for lunchtime.
(03:20):
It was like a very methodicaltime period.
Situation.
Yeah.
I loved it.
And.
That, that was the core of theentire town.
That was, it was a factory andit was based in science and
technology because
Jason Frazell (03:34):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (03:34):
They, the, the primary function of those
factories were to createturbines for the hydroelectric
dams.
Jason Frazell (03:41):
Sure.
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (03:42):
And that was like a new booming thing
that was going on in India atthe time where we were trying to
switch from coal power plantsand other things mm-hmm.
To a more, you know, better forenvironment version of energy.
Mm-hmm.
Which was solar andhydroelectric.
And my dad was, a part of thatcreating turbines and generating
all those stuff.
Jason Frazell (04:01):
Very cool.
Shubhangi Srivastava (04:02):
So it was very cool for me.
That's, that's where I cool.
Think I bought my knack for allthings science and curiosity as
a very curious child from thebeginning.
And this just made it evenbetter.
'cause then I would see like allthese huge machines going and
these dams being built and tosee how it actually functions.
(04:22):
And it was very nice.
Everyone knew everyone.
It's like, you know, the smalltown books that you read about
is like, it's a whole communityon itself.
Everyone knew who we were and,and if I would miss school one
day and go bunk it with other myfriends and other.
Aunt from another neighborhood'sgonna call my mom and be like,
your daughter was in schooltoday.
(04:43):
So it's a tight knit community.
It was, it was really fun togrow up there.
Jason Frazell (04:47):
Yeah.
So I'm really curious about theculture shift for you.
Living, growing up, going toyour primary school and then
your, some of your collegemm-hmm.
In a small town in, in India,and then moving to the largest
metropolitan area Yeah.
In the United States.
And what that was like for youmoving to the LA metro area.
(05:09):
Mm-hmm.
What was, was that somethingthat you did by choice?
Like did you, did you thinkyourself, I want the exact
opposite experience.
I wanna be surrounded by.
A ton of people.
Mm-hmm.
And, and as I don't know if youknew a ton of traffic in the LA
metro area I of
Shubhangi Srivastava (05:24):
traffic.
Jason Frazell (05:25):
You do?
Yeah.
You'd probably be like, we needflying cars in la.
That's the first place we needflying cars.
So what was, what was it likefor you making that shift as
just as a person going from.
You know, arguably like twoopposite ends of the spectrum in
terms of the amount of peoplearound.
Shubhangi Srivastava (05:39):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, not somethingthat I think about at all
honestly, because when I wasgonna school, it was still
something that I talked to myparents about or my grandparents
about even.
Mm-hmm.
Is never in my wildest of dreamswould I have thought as a high
school girl growing up where Igrew up that one day in 20 years
(06:02):
of time.
I would be in United States as aCTO of a company.
It is so beyond.
The thought at the time thateven getting out of the town was
a big deal.
Yeah.
And, and to think that, youknow, I would come to a place
where I am today.
(06:23):
I'm very grateful and veryappreciative of the
opportunities that I was, youknow, I, that I could get the
support that I've had fromeveryone, from my parents, my
family, to even here, all myfriends at work.
It's just, it.
It's immeasurable.
The, the, the, the surrealnessof it when I think about it.
(06:45):
And when, well, I, I finished myhigh school and then I moved to
a metropolitan in India as wellto do my bachelor's for four
years, and that's where.
I, I think I learned the mostbecause I moved outta my
parents' house.
You know, I, I sure went into ahostel.
It's a whole situation withdorms and
Jason Frazell (07:03):
mm-hmm.
Other
Shubhangi Srivastava (07:04):
kids from all over, all over the country.
Learned a lot over there aboutways of living by yourself and,
and mm-hmm.
Growing out life by yourself,but also learning all the cool
things about computers andscience and technology.
And that was.
When I decided I wanted to moveto United States, it was purely
(07:25):
on the basis of opportunitybecause mm-hmm.
At the time I was working inIndia as a software engineer,
and my project the company thatI was working for was primarily
a French company, and theirprojects were for French
defense.
And it just got me very curiousabout life outside India.
(07:46):
You know, like there's, there'sstuff outside this bubble that
I'm in out in the world.
There, there are things that arehappening.
There, there is more to learnin, more to, more to know and
more opportunities to be had.
Especially being a female, it'snot something that is easily
(08:08):
accessible.
Especially in India at the time,definitely.
Mm-hmm.
And so for me it was like, youknow, I wanna go to the land of
opportunities as people say.
Yeah.
And get myself over here on theother side of the ocean.
Jason Frazell (08:25):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutwhat you now do.
Mm-hmm.
You work at a company called NEPServices, and I happen to know
what that is, but I don't thinkmost other people would.
So what is it you all do?
What kind of NP service?
Yeah.
What kind of development do youdo?
Shubhangi Srivastava (08:43):
Yeah.
We are a pioneer, I would say,in unions and nonprofit world
for mm-hmm.
Organizations across NorthAmerica primarily.
And we build softwareapplications for them and.
That, that allow for theseunions and nonprofit
organizations and labororganizations to manage their
(09:05):
membership and effectivelycommunicate and engage with
their members and make sure thatproviding the best benefits that
they're providing to theirmembers and the members know
about them.
'cause a lot of times, yeah allof these.
Labor organizations are so busydoing the things that they're
doing, it's really hard for themto communicate the value that
they're bringing to the table tothese members.
(09:26):
Sure.
And that's what we do.
We try to engage with themembership.
Awesome.
We try to create a better systemfor their people in the office
staff.
Mm-hmm.
Because a lot of these systemsare very archaic.
Very old.
Yeah.
Unions.
Unions in America span like.
You know, centuries, decades.
Yeah.
And a lot of these systems,especially on the East coast
(09:47):
side, I've noticed they're,they're very old applications.
'cause these cities are older.
Yeah.
And it's fun to advance them toa newer, more efficient, better
technology platform that allowsthem to do the job that they do.
Just better.
Jason Frazell (10:05):
Yeah, just better.
Yeah.
So just to, just to throw thisout there for the audience, you
all serve fire department, fire,fire unions.
Mm-hmm.
Police unions and Yes.
Being on the East coast, and Iknow you're on the East coast
now as well, a lot of thosethings are very, those things
have been around for over ahundred years, sometimes over.
I don't, you know, I think theNew York City, the New York
(10:27):
City.
Police union has been aroundsince the 18 hundreds, if I'm
not mistaken.
It's been a, been a very longtime.
And then you also do thissimilar work for nonprofits, as
you mentioned.
Mm-hmm.
Like nonprofits that are lookingto engage their community
through something that is, looksand feels modern on whether it
be their phone or on the web.
Where historically, maybethey've just been on social
(10:48):
media or something.
Mm-hmm.
So giving them expanded reach tohave to stay engaged, which is
very important to have
Shubhangi Srivastava (10:54):
more engagement.
Yeah.
We, we have a vast suite oftechnical product applications
available.
To serve multiple purposes.
You know, we've got mm-hmm.
A crowd funding platform thatprimarily the, the target
audience for that is essentiallyour client base.
It's basically first respondersyou know, veterans, law
(11:16):
enforcement officers,firefighters that were maybe
unfortunately injured during aline of duty or veterans that
need medical assistance andneed, you know.
Help in that process.
A a lot of over the last threeor four years, the funding
platform has, has been a reallybig help to, to a lot of our
(11:38):
client base in, in general.
Nice.
Quality financial support forthem.
So that's, that's a big one thatI, I think I'm, I'm very proud
of personally.
'cause it's a true Yeah.
You know, direct impact towhoever needs it in, in a very
immediate manner.
And, and then of course, the webapplications, be it mobile apps
(11:58):
especially for fire departmentsand police departments.
We're also trying to branchinto.
Electrical unions, you know, IBWS and, and some of the other
steel fitters and, and just allthe unions across the world.
Jason Frazell (12:15):
Yeah.
Uw, uw, UAW, United AutoWorkers.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Shubhangi Srivastava (12:19):
So that, that's been very fascinating.
'cause you know, as I've movedto the East coast my.
In interaction with some of theEast Coast clients have
increased quite a bit where I'mlike going to the New York
offices or like meeting clientson the, on Long Island and, and
meeting clients in DC whetherit's like international
firefighters or Stream Pittersor Yeah.
(12:41):
Or anyone else.
And it's very cool to see allthe platforms that they
currently use and how we canproblem solve for them to make
the.
They're doing on a daily basis,less painful.
Jason Frazell (12:55):
Yeah.
So would you, would you add toyour list of things you'd never
thought possible as a highschool student?
Oh yeah.
Meeting, meeting with the headof the meeting, meeting with the
head of the union for likeNassau County Police Department
or like the sheriffs departmentor something.
Oh, absolutely.
It's
Shubhangi Srivastava (13:10):
so funny you bring up Nassau County'cause
I literally, you know, we wouldbecome best friends over the
last couple of months.
I, I did, they're one of ourclients.
That I hope they do.
And I go see them probably everyother week.
Jason Frazell (13:23):
I had no, and by the way, that was, that was a
setup.
Yeah.
That wa that wa I mean, that wasnot a setup.
I had no idea.
But I'm also playing the oddsthat it's either Nassar or
Suffolk.
There's only two choices forcounties.
Yep.
In Long Island.
Shubhangi Srivastava (13:35):
We work with both of them, funnily
enough, so that's awesome.
Nice.
Yeah.
But no, absolutely, you know,this is a, a dream in every
which way.
I, I wouldn't.
Even, you know, if I, if I thinkabout it young girl who would
listen to stories from hergrandmother, and then we would
decide, oh, you know, where we,we would play this traveling
(13:56):
game and, and we'd be like, she,she'd ask me, where do you wanna
go today?
And then just imagine that I'mgonna be in New York one day, or
I'm gonna be Los Angeles one dayand I'm gonna be in London one
day.
And to actually be here.
Is is as accomplishing as onecan imagine it would be.
Jason Frazell (14:16):
Yeah.
It's beautiful.
Chubi, let's, let's dig in onthat a little bit.
I, I'm sure there's peoplelistening that they, they relate
to that, like they're living,they're either living a life way
bigger than they could havehoped for or they're not.
Mm-hmm.
Either way, what do youattribute, what do you
(14:38):
attribute?
You know, you're sitting herewith me talking today and we're
talking about meeting with, youknow, the head of the union of
Nassau County and, and like wementioned before, you are the
CTO at a decent sized companycreating solutions that people
across the world use.
What do you attribute that to?
Shubhangi Srivastava (14:55):
I think a lot of it has to do with
resilience.
Mm-hmm.
I wouldn't personally for me notnegate the absolute enormous
support that I've had'cause iteases your path, however, that,
however, whatever that path maylook like for you.
(15:16):
Yeah.
If you have support it, it's alot.
You know, it's a paved pathinstead of you trying to grovel
further the road in front ofyou.
So that I think is, you know,I'm very fortunate in that sense
that I have had mm-hmm.
Support in every way, in everystep of the way in my life,
whether it is personal orprofessional.
And then also I'm, I'm a, I'm atop cookie in that sense.
(15:38):
I, I do not give up.
I, I, if I put my mind intosomething, i, I will not let go
until it's done.
And so I think for mepersonally, it would be, you
know, those two things whereand, and also as a, as a person
who is just constantly.
(15:59):
Thinking all the time.
Every time.
Mm-hmm.
About all the things that I seein front of me.
It's all problem, problem,problem.
And as a person to not overthinkand believe that, that it's,
it's, it's okay.
It is what it is, and believethat you can do it.
That if you're here doingsomething, then truly believe
(16:23):
that you can because it, it, itmatters.
It makes a huge impact.
Being positive about your ownrole and your.
You not just your roleprofessionally, but just your
role as a person on this earth.
To believe in that and, andattest to it with, and, and look
back and, and give yourselfapplaud.
(16:45):
I think very few of us take thetime.
'cause,'cause a lot of us, youknow, in our state of anxiety
would look back and.
Count faults.
I could have done this better,should have done this better.
Of course, maybe I would've donethat.
Maybe I should have done that.
But instead flipping the switchon that and thinking, I I did do
that.
And that's remarkable.
(17:07):
'cause
Jason Frazell (17:07):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (17:08):
To, to be able to do that is not a small
feat.
And, and I think it's importantto give yourself a pat in the
back once a while.
Jason Frazell (17:17):
Yeah.
Offer, offer something that I.
That has made a big differencefor me over the last few years,
and I heard it in what you justsaid there is there reaches a
point where your intellectualismand you're think and thinking
your way in and out of a problemdoesn't work any longer.
Like there's, and that's what,what like some people would call
(17:37):
it faith or courage.
It's like that thing, thatpersonality trait that.
You know, people go, oh, how doI, and you probably have, I
don't know if you do anymentoring, people are like, how
do I get promoted?
How do I do this?
How do I do that?
It's like, it's not just a howto.
Yeah.
If it was a how to, if you wanta, how to go read a book at on
Amazon.
Yeah.
And then you'll go, well thatdidn't work for me, so it must
be wrong.
(17:58):
Or like, there must be somethingwrong.
And, and I think this issomething, you know, as we kind
of pivot into talking about techhere mm-hmm.
There's the intellectual.
Ization of things and there'sthe analyzing of things and then
you reach and there are somethings that are That's great.
And there's other things youreach where you have to really
know how you feel about it.
Yeah.
Or you have to, like you said,you had to internalize what I
(18:18):
heard you say and all that isyou had to end up owning that
you like your grit createdopportunities for you.
And that's not really a thinkingthing.
I don't say grit is not athinking thing.
Amazing.
So let's talk about, let's talkabout your career path here.
So you started, you went, cameto school, you did your thing.
(18:40):
You started at NEP at NEPServices, and you've been there
ever since.
And you started as a softwareengineer.
Yes.
Which I would assert means thatyou are very good at,
technically at softwareengineering.
I call it fingers on thekeyboard.
You can probably do some, dosome cool stuff.
Yeah.
So you did that and so that, andyou were a computer, you said
you were a computer science, youhave education that, so that was
(19:00):
in your sweet spot?
Mm-hmm.
And you did that for a while?
Mm-hmm.
When did you realize that youmight wanna do something more
specifically potentially lead.
People or lead something greaterthan you doing.
'cause there's a lot of amazingpeople that can have amazing
careers just doing that work.
Yeah.
And they never have to doanything else.
And it's a well paid career likeyou, and you don't have to.
(19:23):
So I'm curious for you if youremember the inflection point
for you or if you had an aha oflike, oh, I'd like to lead a
team, or I'd like to setstrategy, you know, as CTO,
you're, I'm sure you're settingstrategy.
Walk us through how that wentfor you.
Shubhangi Srivastava (19:36):
It's, it's very interesting because as you
say that I'm thinking about, youknow, so many colleagues,
friends, other people that I,that I know from the industry
that.
Are, are truly like, no, Idon't, I don't want to go into
the realm of project managementor software manager or, you
know, and, and that definitely,I think is an inclination that
(19:58):
people have or they don't,whether it's a personal choice
for a lot of people, whetherthey mm-hmm.
They want, they love developmentand they want to continue to
progress in that world.
And that's amazing because.
Technology can do wonders.
And then there are people that Ithink for me, I.
(20:20):
I think I said it before have athing about problem solving.
If I see that there is somethingout there that is being done
that I can improve in any way,shape, or form I would
volunteer.
And so that was something thatwas happening within the company
where.
At the time when I joined, acouple months in, we were
(20:40):
working towards mobileapplication and there was a bit
of a struggle with the mobileapplication launch and I went
to.
Our now CEO Stacy Den and it waslike, you know, I know I'm new
and you have no reason to trustme in any way, shape, or form,
but I've done a lot of this workbefore in my school with
(21:02):
projects on mobile applications,and I would love to take this on
and see if I can make this alittle bit better.
And it just naturally progressedfrom then to finding more
challenges that I thought Icould help create better
efficiency for, or as I'mtalking to at the time, some of
(21:26):
my team members and then theyhad issues, whether it be.
An SOP related issue or a workrelated issue or something that
they're technically, you know,struggling with.
I noticed myself gettinggratification from.
Positive impact when otherpeople had more positive impact
(21:48):
with their job.
Mm-hmm.
And I felt that more stronglythan when I did something, and
that was for me.
Mm-hmm.
When I realized that I probablywant to go more into the realm
of.
People management
Jason Frazell (22:06):
mm-hmm.
Shubhangi Srivastava (22:07):
Strategies and, and all of that.
And less into the world ofdevelopment.
'cause,'cause I realize that ifI solve a problem, I'm happy
about it, but if I am maybecoaching someone else to solve a
problem.
Then I'm doubly happy about itbecause
Jason Frazell (22:23):
Perfect.
Shubhangi Srivastava (22:23):
Because I impacted, you know, whoever XY
Z's job and, and, and thoughtabout themselves to be like, oh,
this is amazing.
This is so cool.
I finished it and it's, it'ssuch a, it's very fulfilling for
me, I think.
Jason Frazell (22:35):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (22:36):
And that, that's, that's where it all
started.
This very nice.
Jason Frazell (22:42):
The worm, the wormhole of leadership.
That, that, that's your firstbook.
You can just, just take thewormhole of leadership.
Shubhangi Srivastava (22:48):
Yep.
Jason Frazell (22:49):
So let's talk about lessons learned.
Mm-hmm.
Moving from individualcontributor role to.
Leading a team doing, going fromtactical, more, not necessarily
tactical work, but again,fingers on keyboard to more
strategy.
And as CTO, generally, CTO,you're probably making
technology decisions.
(23:09):
You're making strategicdecisions on removing technical
debt and like what's the futureof the platform if we're gonna
make shifts and all thosethings.
What's been the, what's been themindset shift that you've had to
really empower in order to makethat move and be successful?
Shubhangi Srivastava (23:25):
I think one of the biggest ones for me
was that I don't have to do itall by myself.
Jason Frazell (23:33):
So hard, isn't it?
Shubhangi Srivastava (23:35):
It's one of the most basic core seems
very logical.
Like duh, obviously.
Totally.
And as a person who is.
Who has done this for like,what, four years of engineering,
two years masters a yearworking, you know, seven years
of just practicing and, anddoing all this thing by myself
(23:56):
to then getting to a place wherenow I have a team that is here
to support me and there areissues to, instead of I'm just
gonna do it by myself.
It's okay.
Yeah.
Instead of that being like.
Hey, let's talk through it.
Let's see if we can solve it.
So I think the shift on, youknow, the mindset side for me
(24:19):
and I attribute that to, stacyand other people that, that were
my colleagues at the time at npto have helped make me realize
that, you know what?
You, you don't have to byyourself, should we?
You, you got people.
And I'm like, yeah, you'reright.
And that, that was a, that was areally.
(24:41):
Beautiful thing in my headbecause it was like, I'm not
alone in this.
It's okay.
There are other people.
Yeah.
I have a very a lot of people atwork are like, how are you not
stressed about this?
There's like so many deadlines.
We've gotta hit so much in soshort amount of time.
Like, how are you not?
Stress and like,'cause I trustmy team.
I, I trust Yeah.
(25:01):
The work that we do, that we cancome up with solutions together
that we'll figure out a way andthat we're not alone in this.
And at the end of the day, it's,it's that, that's what's
important, you know?
You Yeah.
Wanna make sure that.
You're not burning yourself tothe ground, trying to figure out
solutions and, and gettingstressed and anxious over
(25:24):
deadlines that might get madeand might not.
Yeah, of course it's important,but I was like, I don't, you
know, there, there are so manyother things to stress about.
I think this is okay.
This is gonna be this.
Jason Frazell (25:36):
Any best practices or learnings that
you've had or also pitfallsaround how you've managed
stress, anxiety, tighttimelines.
Mm-hmm.
Burnout, if you've experiencedin your career, both as an
individual contributor, and thenhow do you, how do you look at
this?
(25:56):
And balance this, and let's justnormalize this for everybody
listening, and you and I knowthis, that in tech there are
times when the deadlines aretight and you have a, a feature
release, something out or anupgrade and it's gonna require
some additional time.
Yeah.
Some additional, like literallyenergy and time.
Mm-hmm.
How do you as a leader, andmaybe this is for the entire
executive team too, and I'll,I'll ask, I'll ask Stacy this as
(26:18):
well, she's gonna be on here onthe show shortly as well, is how
do you.
Where you're balancing businessoutput business outcomes with
our people need a break.
Yeah.
And have you, you've likelylearned these lessons for
yourself is my guess.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(26:39):
As most of us in our, in ourearly in our career, do we learn
to like, oh wait, I don't haveunlimited energy, and suddenly
my energy is gone because Ispent it all.
Shubhangi Srivastava (26:47):
Yeah.
That's a, that's, that's a roughlesson learned.
When you do learn it and ofcourse, I mean, I, I am a
perfectionist through andthrough.
Mm-hmm.
So I like to just run myselfthrough the ground until I get
to a point where I am absolutelya thousand percent happy with
what I produced.
And that never happens.
(27:07):
And not just in technology, itjust never happens.
Period.
Yeah.
And so learn how to.
Dissociate from you wantingsomething versus what is
happening, I think is a veryimportant skillset to, to learn.
(27:29):
Whether it be in development oranything else.
Especially when we work in a devenvironment and we've got, like
you said, really tight timelinesor there's, you know, like a big
push to get something done.
And you're thinking, okay, wellthere, there are two ways to go
about it.
I can either pull people and getmore people involved or I can
(27:50):
get more overtime.
Or it's gonna, because this isnot a job where you can be
passively involved.
That's right.
This is a job where you have tobe cerebrally available and
involved the entire time infront of a computer.
Coding a solution to a problem.
You, you can't be like doing 15things at the same time.
(28:12):
It has, you have to be presentand for someone to be present,
you are just naturally gonna dobetter if you are not stressed
if you're not anxious, if you'renot burnt out.
So for me, my priority hasalways been the team.
When there are strategies aroundit, when there are pushes that
goes through functionality, ofcourse there is stuff that, you
(28:34):
know, we, we say, okay, we'vegotta get this done in a month,
and it's, you know, there'sdeadline, blah, blah.
I, I personally, when comes timelike that, try to, you know, put
myself in the position of theother person and make sure that
I'm doing whatever it is that Ican do to make their life.
(28:55):
During that time, a little bitmore comfortable whether it be
me being more involved in, inany type of coding or any type
of testing phase or any type ofarchitecture phase to just
having half an hour of like achitchat session to decompress,
like, you know,
Jason Frazell (29:13):
nice.
Shubhangi Srivastava (29:14):
Let's not talk about work at all.
Let's, let's.
Share pictures of our vacationand talk about what's happening.
'cause you know, with the remoteculture, that's something that
that's something that I've, I'velearned to do a little bit more
in, in order to create morepersonal relationships with
people, because these are peoplewho are spending pretty much an
entire date was.
(29:34):
Yeah.
For, and it's always nice tolike people that you work with
instead of Absolutely, yes.
It's touch them all the time.
Jason Frazell (29:42):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (29:43):
You know, we, we do like small chatty
sessions where we're justtalking about, Hey, you had a
new kid, or what's happening?
And it, it just makes things alittle more lively and a little
less stressed.
Yeah.
Personally, I have.
Learned the hard way that thisis not the end of the world and
(30:03):
that it's, it's gonna be okay.
And yeah, a a lot of timespriorities are just priorities
and if we stop panicking alittle bit.
And figuring out a way to getthrough to it.
There's only two options.
You either can or you cannot.
Jason Frazell (30:21):
Mm-hmm.
Shubhangi Srivastava (30:22):
And it's as simple as that.
If you cannot, you just tellpeople you can't.
And if you can't, then you doand
Jason Frazell (30:28):
then go do it.
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (30:28):
And, and, and I think a lot of the, the
anxiety and the burnout and thestress, it comes from the
unknown.
It's like not knowing how farthis is gonna go, am I gonna
work on harder sprints for threeweeks, six weeks, a year?
Is this push gonna go on for.
Seven years at a time.
Versus having leadership that,you know, is supportive, you
(30:51):
know, that they will interveneif stuff goes a little to the
south too much.
I think trust is a really bigfactor when it comes to any
place.
But especially in, in adevelopment environment, it's
important that your team trustsyou as a leader to have your
back.
Yeah.
(31:12):
And that's all that matters atthe end of the day.
Jason Frazell (31:15):
Yeah, I.
More questions for you to wrapup here today.
Mm-hmm.
Number one, what's somethingthat you and the team are
working on that you get excitedabout?
And you can keep it, you know,high level, I'm sure you're
working on things that aren'tpublic yet.
Yeah.
What, what are you excited aboutthat you're working on?
Shubhangi Srivastava (31:31):
All the secrets.
Jason Frazell (31:32):
All the big secrets.
Shubhangi Srivastava (31:34):
Yeah.
They're, we're excited about alot of things I think we're NEP
excited about incorporating moreartificial intelligence into our
platform.
Sure.
That, that is a big one for us.
It's a little bit of a challengebecause of the client base that
we serve.
Jason Frazell (31:49):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (31:49):
Owing security and other reasons.
That's Yeah, of course.
At the utmost forefront of mythought.
Anytime we're trying to dosomething.
Jason Frazell (31:56):
Sure.
Shubhangi Srivastava (31:56):
But AI is something that we're all I.
Very, very hyped about,'causethe, the, the minute someone
says the name, there's likeglitter in the eyes and it's
Jason Frazell (32:07):
very,
Shubhangi Srivastava (32:10):
And there are some other cool features
that have been on the pipelinefor a really long time that
we're finally gonna get to doprobably next year.
And I'm personally very stokedabout it because this has been
like years and making, and tosee that come to a fruition.
With our new Connect Plusplatform.
Mm-hmm.
Jason Frazell (32:29):
It's
Shubhangi Srivastava (32:29):
very exciting because we've, you
know, been whiteboarding thisand, and filling up all the
windows and the walls of theoffices with all Yeah.
Of garbage gibberish.
And to finally have a thingthat's tangible and running and,
and working and helping people,it's absolutely immense.
We've been.
(32:50):
We sometimes get testimonialsand stuff from clients, and one
of the ones was so, so amazingthat it.
I feel very proud of the workthat we do at the company.
You know, there, there are copsout there that are, are touting
that the platform allowed themto reach out to the rest of
their membership to find asuspect that shot a police.
(33:12):
Wow.
Yeah.
Within That's amazing.
Two hours of time just becausethey were able to reach out to
other precinct members in a moretargeted.
Communication then Sure.
Blasting everybody's radio.
Sure.
And that's such a, that's such areal life impact that you,
nothing can top that and Yeah.
So we're excited when we see,you know, results like those,
(33:35):
and then other things that wecan do to improve that.
Excited about any options toinclude mental health resources
for our mm-hmm.
Responders.
I think that's a big one that I,I'm personally invested in a
little bit to see.
Yeah.
Through the finish line on thatone.
Suicide support and mm-hmm.
And all of those things.
PTSD, trauma related stuff.
(33:56):
So that's, that's something thatwe're, that's
Jason Frazell (34:00):
for those amazing people keeping us.
Shubhangi Srivastava (34:04):
Trying, we're trying to fulfill as much
as we can with the little, youknow, little service that we can
provide.
Jason Frazell (34:11):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (34:11):
Because it's, it's a tough job out
there.
It's a tough world.
Yeah.
And however, NEP, whatever wecan do to make their lives even
10% easier.
Yeah.
It's definitely worth it.
Jason Frazell (34:24):
Yeah.
To wrap up and this, you're not,you don't know this is coming,
but I'm so curious how youbalance.
All the stem and all the reallytechnical things you do with
also being an artist or like,what about the, the other, the
other, the other side.
It, it's, I'm, I'm reallyfascinated by that and we'll
just spend a couple minutes onthis.
So first of all, what kind of,like, what kind of artist do you
(34:46):
consider yourself, or what kindof art do you focus on?
Shubhangi Srivastava (34:49):
I am usually an acrylic abstract.
Person.
Jason Frazell (34:56):
Okay.
Shubhangi Srivastava (34:56):
So I like to I started very young in, in
arts and craft, and I always.
I enjoy it.
It, I've always liked it.
I started with oil pastels whenI was younger.
I moved into every type ofmedium imaginable, you know,
from glass to oil, to acrylic,to landscape portrait, you name
(35:20):
it.
I've, I've dabbled in it.
But now I find myselfgravitating more towards
abstract acrylics.
Nice.
It's.
I don't know.
It's just a way to, I guess I, Ilike the calmness that it
provides me.
Jason Frazell (35:37):
Yeah.
I was, yeah.
I think we're, and, and thanksfor sharing all that.
I was, I was wondering, you, yousaid before you're a problem
solver.
You're really good at that.
Do you really, when you'redoing, when you're creating a
new piece of art, do you relateto that as a problem to be
solved?
Shubhangi Srivastava (35:53):
No, I think that's when I shut off my
brain on that, on that, yeah.
Particular aspect of things.
Although the perfectionistcreeps in a lot where I'm like,
you know, of course I would notconsider a painting finish until
I'm genuinely very happy with itand an ira.
So I have to decide.
This is the point.
You gotta let, let it go, man.
But
Jason Frazell (36:12):
yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (36:13):
But I, I think when I'm painting, I, I
try to just.
It's, it's a, it's a me world atthe time.
It's like, you know, yeah.
Noise.
Do not think about anythingelse.
I, I love colors.
I love the, the, the calmnessthat it brings me in that
process.
I, I love not knowing what I'mdoing.
(36:36):
'cause mostly Yeah.
Is, there's no plan to it there.
It's full chaos.
Yeah, you go in and you have noidea.
You decide on a whim, okay, Ilike this color and I like that
color, and I want this, thisedge, and I want that, you know,
texture.
And I just do it on, on a whim.
And fortunate that it turns outgood or it could be really bad.
(36:58):
Yeah,
Jason Frazell (36:59):
yeah.
Beautiful.
But when I'm
Shubhangi Srivastava (37:00):
doing my job, I think the artist in me
creeps up a lot.
Jason Frazell (37:05):
Yeah, of course.
Shubhangi Srivastava (37:07):
I, I, I do tend to think of a lot more
outta the box creative ways tosolve something that I would not
traditionally if I am justthinking about traditional
solutions.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, you know, hacks andthings and switches or how about
we don't use any of this and howabout, mm-hmm.
(37:30):
Do a complete 180 and flip likethe number of times I have
absolutely changed the entireproject.
Just like that is astonishinglycrazy to me.
Yeah.
Because the rest of the team islike, you spent two months
making this and you're okay.
And I'm like, yeah.
Yeah.
As long as whatever we're doinggets us to a better finish line.
(37:53):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Jason Frazell (37:57):
Is it just my opinion, I think that's so
healthy.
I.
To have something where you'respending time in, you're
spending time in, in likequantitative and coding and
managing other folks like thatto have some sort of outlet that
is the opposite.
And I had a feeling that wasgonna be your answer, so I'm
like, oh, abstract.
Like, that's not a problem.
You have no idea.
You're you.
No, you're just like.
(38:18):
Turn off that part of your brainand just allow it to free flow.
So my encouragement is, and I'm,I'm gonna speak for you'cause
I'm sure you'd say the samething if, if you are a, you
know, kind of a right brainproblem solving, you love that,
find something that allows youto get to turn that off, that's
really healthy for your brainand for staying in your
executive state for longer.
And the other thing that I heardin all that is like, the science
(38:40):
of that is we're only creativewhen we're under the executive
start part of our brain.
Mm-hmm.
When we're in survival stateburnout.
Yes.
Deadlines stressed.
We lose our creativity and we goto the thing we know to do,
which is intellectualize things,the, the things we've done.
But our brain goes, Hey, it'snot important that we're
creative.
We shut that off.
So my encouragement to you, Iwanna give a quick shout out to
(39:02):
this.
If anybody's listening andthey're interested in that.
My friend Dr.
Eugene Choi, he is been on thepodcast a couple of times.
His whole episode is aboutexecutive state and survival
state functioning.
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah.
And yeah, it's very cool in thehuman brain.
He does a lot of, he does a lotof neurology things.
Well, SBY, amazing conversation.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Congratulations to you and theteam.
Thanks for doing all the, thegreat work you're doing.
(39:24):
Like I said, to our firstresponders and all the people
you're keeping safe andconnected with their, connected
with their communities.
And enjoy your next trip toNassau County.
That was so, that was so random.
I had no idea.
And yes, and keep, keep up thegood work with you and the rest
of the team over there at NEPand we'll, we'll talk to you
again soon.
Shubhangi Srivastava (39:42):
Yeah, I appreciate your time today.
It was absolute pleasure.
Jason Frazell (39:45):
Thanks.
Speaker (39:46):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Talking to
Cool People with Jason Frizzell.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please tell your friends, follow
us on Instagram and Facebook andgive us a shout out or take a
moment to leave a review oniTunes.
If something from today'sepisode pique your interest and
you'd like to connect, email usat podcast@jasonzell.com.
(40:09):
We love hearing from ourlisteners because you're cool
people too.
Everybody.
My guest today is Sanghi Triva.
Sanghi is the CTO of NEPservices, and we're gonna talk
about a variety of things.
Today we're gonna talk aboutworking in tech.
We're gonna talk about being awoman leader in tech.
We're gonna talk about burnoutin tech.
So for those of you listeningwho are interested in tech or
(00:35):
women in leadership, we're gonnatalk about all those things and
sh and forever you'll be knownas shoey.
We're gonna call you Shoey fromthis point as you gave us
permission to, I'm sure we'll betalking about some other things.
We don't even know what we'retalking about yet.
So welcome, so good to have youhere today.
Shubhangi Srivastava (00:48):
Thank you.
I'm, I'm happy to be here.
Happy to talk to you.
Glad that I can be of service toanyone out there who's looking
to dive deeper into the world oftechnology.
Jason Frazell (00:58):
Yes.
Awesome.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna own thisfor the audience.
I don't know when we're gonnarelease this, but we are
recording this on election dayhere in the United States.
Yeah.
Tuesday, November 5th.
And there's some stuff going on,and you and I have decided,
let's just record a podcastbecause why not?
Because we've done our, we'vedone what we need to do and
there's nothing we can do tochange of, so we're gonna record
(01:20):
a podcast and have a greatconversation, and we're doing it
on election day here in theUnited States.
Shubhangi Srivastava (01:25):
That's what democracy's about.
You know,
Jason Frazell (01:27):
that's what democracy's about.
We do our, we do whatever weneed to do, and then we go in.
And we wake and we'll wake uptomorrow and the next day and
the next day and keep doing ourthing.
Awesome.
So before we get into some ofthe conversations, point points
that I just mentioned, whatwould you like us to know about
you?
I.
Shubhangi Srivastava (01:43):
Let's just go dive into a little bit of a
background.
I, like Jason said, I'm Chubi.
Born and brought up in India.
I came from a, come from a verysmall town in the north part of
India, and did my school there,did my bachelor's there in
computer science and engineeringfor about four years.
I've worked for a year in India.
(02:03):
And then I moved to UnitedStates at the prime age of I
believe about 21.
Mm-hmm.
And decided to dive further intoscience and technology and do my
master's in computer science andengineering.
And I did that from California,Cal State Long Beach.
Mm-hmm.
And then I joined NEP after mygraduation.
(02:24):
So I've been at the same companyever since, which is a very,
very.
Contentious point for a lot ofpeople in technology.
'cause people are, yes, it isvery, very, you know, fast paced
switcher people and I'm I'm, I'man anomaly in that world.
I, I like to see through thethings that I've started and
(02:44):
that that's how I joined iep.
And I joined as a softwareengineer and currently like.
Jason Frazell (02:51):
CTO.
So you've had a nice climb.
First, first pointed question,so you said a very small town.
How small was the town that yougrew up in?
Shubhangi Srivastava (02:59):
Very small.
We, you know, when I place Igrew up, it's, it's basically a
factory.
It was a factory town.
Mm-hmm.
And Dan, everyone else in thattown goes, used to go to the
same place to work.
Mm-hmm.
We, we would, you know, theywould all wear their uniforms at
8:00 AM in the morning.
There'd be a siren.
Everyone's gonna go into thefactories and they're gonna come
back for lunchtime.
(03:20):
It was like a very methodicaltime period.
Situation.
Yeah.
I loved it.
And.
That, that was the core of theentire town.
That was, it was a factory andit was based in science and
technology because
Jason Frazell (03:34):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (03:34):
They, the, the primary function of those
factories were to createturbines for the hydroelectric
dams.
Jason Frazell (03:41):
Sure.
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (03:42):
And that was like a new booming thing
that was going on in India atthe time where we were trying to
switch from coal power plantsand other things mm-hmm.
To a more, you know, better forenvironment version of energy.
Mm-hmm.
Which was solar andhydroelectric.
And my dad was, a part of thatcreating turbines and generating
all those stuff.
Jason Frazell (04:01):
Very cool.
Shubhangi Srivastava (04:02):
So it was very cool for me.
That's, that's where I cool.
Think I bought my knack for allthings science and curiosity as
a very curious child from thebeginning.
And this just made it evenbetter.
'cause then I would see like allthese huge machines going and
these dams being built and tosee how it actually functions.
(04:22):
And it was very nice.
Everyone knew everyone.
It's like, you know, the smalltown books that you read about
is like, it's a whole communityon itself.
Everyone knew who we were and,and if I would miss school one
day and go bunk it with other myfriends and other.
Aunt from another neighborhood'sgonna call my mom and be like,
your daughter was in schooltoday.
(04:43):
So it's a tight knit community.
It was, it was really fun togrow up there.
Jason Frazell (04:47):
Yeah.
So I'm really curious about theculture shift for you.
Living, growing up, going toyour primary school and then
your, some of your collegemm-hmm.
In a small town in, in India,and then moving to the largest
metropolitan area Yeah.
In the United States.
And what that was like for youmoving to the LA metro area.
(05:09):
Mm-hmm.
What was, was that somethingthat you did by choice?
Like did you, did you thinkyourself, I want the exact
opposite experience.
I wanna be surrounded by.
A ton of people.
Mm-hmm.
And, and as I don't know if youknew a ton of traffic in the LA
metro area I of
Shubhangi Srivastava (05:24):
traffic.
Jason Frazell (05:25):
You do?
Yeah.
You'd probably be like, we needflying cars in la.
That's the first place we needflying cars.
So what was, what was it likefor you making that shift as
just as a person going from.
You know, arguably like twoopposite ends of the spectrum in
terms of the amount of peoplearound.
Shubhangi Srivastava (05:39):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, not somethingthat I think about at all
honestly, because when I wasgonna school, it was still
something that I talked to myparents about or my grandparents
about even.
Mm-hmm.
Is never in my wildest of dreamswould I have thought as a high
school girl growing up where Igrew up that one day in 20 years
(06:02):
of time.
I would be in United States as aCTO of a company.
It is so beyond.
The thought at the time thateven getting out of the town was
a big deal.
Yeah.
And, and to think that, youknow, I would come to a place
where I am today.
(06:23):
I'm very grateful and veryappreciative of the
opportunities that I was, youknow, I, that I could get the
support that I've had fromeveryone, from my parents, my
family, to even here, all myfriends at work.
It's just, it.
It's immeasurable.
The, the, the, the surrealnessof it when I think about it.
(06:45):
And when, well, I, I finished myhigh school and then I moved to
a metropolitan in India as wellto do my bachelor's for four
years, and that's where.
I, I think I learned the mostbecause I moved outta my
parents' house.
You know, I, I sure went into ahostel.
It's a whole situation withdorms and
Jason Frazell (07:03):
mm-hmm.
Other
Shubhangi Srivastava (07:04):
kids from all over, all over the country.
Learned a lot over there aboutways of living by yourself and,
and mm-hmm.
Growing out life by yourself,but also learning all the cool
things about computers andscience and technology.
And that was.
When I decided I wanted to moveto United States, it was purely
(07:25):
on the basis of opportunitybecause mm-hmm.
At the time I was working inIndia as a software engineer,
and my project the company thatI was working for was primarily
a French company, and theirprojects were for French
defense.
And it just got me very curiousabout life outside India.
(07:46):
You know, like there's, there'sstuff outside this bubble that
I'm in out in the world.
There, there are things that arehappening.
There, there is more to learnin, more to, more to know and
more opportunities to be had.
Especially being a female, it'snot something that is easily
(08:08):
accessible.
Especially in India at the time,definitely.
Mm-hmm.
And so for me it was like, youknow, I wanna go to the land of
opportunities as people say.
Yeah.
And get myself over here on theother side of the ocean.
Jason Frazell (08:25):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutwhat you now do.
Mm-hmm.
You work at a company called NEPServices, and I happen to know
what that is, but I don't thinkmost other people would.
So what is it you all do?
What kind of NP service?
Yeah.
What kind of development do youdo?
Shubhangi Srivastava (08:43):
Yeah.
We are a pioneer, I would say,in unions and nonprofit world
for mm-hmm.
Organizations across NorthAmerica primarily.
And we build softwareapplications for them and.
That, that allow for theseunions and nonprofit
organizations and labororganizations to manage their
(09:05):
membership and effectivelycommunicate and engage with
their members and make sure thatproviding the best benefits that
they're providing to theirmembers and the members know
about them.
'cause a lot of times, yeah allof these.
Labor organizations are so busydoing the things that they're
doing, it's really hard for themto communicate the value that
they're bringing to the table tothese members.
(09:26):
Sure.
And that's what we do.
We try to engage with themembership.
Awesome.
We try to create a better systemfor their people in the office
staff.
Mm-hmm.
Because a lot of these systemsare very archaic.
Very old.
Yeah.
Unions.
Unions in America span like.
You know, centuries, decades.
Yeah.
And a lot of these systems,especially on the East coast
(09:47):
side, I've noticed they're,they're very old applications.
'cause these cities are older.
Yeah.
And it's fun to advance them toa newer, more efficient, better
technology platform that allowsthem to do the job that they do.
Just better.
Jason Frazell (10:05):
Yeah, just better.
Yeah.
So just to, just to throw thisout there for the audience, you
all serve fire department, fire,fire unions.
Mm-hmm.
Police unions and Yes.
Being on the East coast, and Iknow you're on the East coast
now as well, a lot of thosethings are very, those things
have been around for over ahundred years, sometimes over.
I don't, you know, I think theNew York City, the New York
(10:27):
City.
Police union has been aroundsince the 18 hundreds, if I'm
not mistaken.
It's been a, been a very longtime.
And then you also do thissimilar work for nonprofits, as
you mentioned.
Mm-hmm.
Like nonprofits that are lookingto engage their community
through something that is, looksand feels modern on whether it
be their phone or on the web.
Where historically, maybethey've just been on social
(10:48):
media or something.
Mm-hmm.
So giving them expanded reach tohave to stay engaged, which is
very important to have
Shubhangi Srivastava (10:54):
more engagement.
Yeah.
We, we have a vast suite oftechnical product applications
available.
To serve multiple purposes.
You know, we've got mm-hmm.
A crowd funding platform thatprimarily the, the target
audience for that is essentiallyour client base.
It's basically first respondersyou know, veterans, law
(11:16):
enforcement officers,firefighters that were maybe
unfortunately injured during aline of duty or veterans that
need medical assistance andneed, you know.
Help in that process.
A a lot of over the last threeor four years, the funding
platform has, has been a reallybig help to, to a lot of our
(11:38):
client base in, in general.
Nice.
Quality financial support forthem.
So that's, that's a big one thatI, I think I'm, I'm very proud
of personally.
'cause it's a true Yeah.
You know, direct impact towhoever needs it in, in a very
immediate manner.
And, and then of course, the webapplications, be it mobile apps
(11:58):
especially for fire departmentsand police departments.
We're also trying to branchinto.
Electrical unions, you know, IBWS and, and some of the other
steel fitters and, and just allthe unions across the world.
Jason Frazell (12:15):
Yeah.
Uw, uw, UAW, United AutoWorkers.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Shubhangi Srivastava (12:19):
So that, that's been very fascinating.
'cause you know, as I've movedto the East coast my.
In interaction with some of theEast Coast clients have
increased quite a bit where I'mlike going to the New York
offices or like meeting clientson the, on Long Island and, and
meeting clients in DC whetherit's like international
firefighters or Stream Pittersor Yeah.
(12:41):
Or anyone else.
And it's very cool to see allthe platforms that they
currently use and how we canproblem solve for them to make
the.
They're doing on a daily basis,less painful.
Jason Frazell (12:55):
Yeah.
So would you, would you add toyour list of things you'd never
thought possible as a highschool student?
Oh yeah.
Meeting, meeting with the headof the meeting, meeting with the
head of the union for likeNassau County Police Department
or like the sheriffs departmentor something.
Oh, absolutely.
It's
Shubhangi Srivastava (13:10):
so funny you bring up Nassau County'cause
I literally, you know, we wouldbecome best friends over the
last couple of months.
I, I did, they're one of ourclients.
That I hope they do.
And I go see them probably everyother week.
Jason Frazell (13:23):
I had no, and by the way, that was, that was a
setup.
Yeah.
That wa that wa I mean, that wasnot a setup.
I had no idea.
But I'm also playing the oddsthat it's either Nassar or
Suffolk.
There's only two choices forcounties.
Yep.
In Long Island.
Shubhangi Srivastava (13:35):
We work with both of them, funnily
enough, so that's awesome.
Nice.
Yeah.
But no, absolutely, you know,this is a, a dream in every
which way.
I, I wouldn't.
Even, you know, if I, if I thinkabout it young girl who would
listen to stories from hergrandmother, and then we would
decide, oh, you know, where we,we would play this traveling
(13:56):
game and, and we'd be like, she,she'd ask me, where do you wanna
go today?
And then just imagine that I'mgonna be in New York one day, or
I'm gonna be Los Angeles one dayand I'm gonna be in London one
day.
And to actually be here.
Is is as accomplishing as onecan imagine it would be.
Jason Frazell (14:16):
Yeah.
It's beautiful.
Chubi, let's, let's dig in onthat a little bit.
I, I'm sure there's peoplelistening that they, they relate
to that, like they're living,they're either living a life way
bigger than they could havehoped for or they're not.
Mm-hmm.
Either way, what do youattribute, what do you
(14:38):
attribute?
You know, you're sitting herewith me talking today and we're
talking about meeting with, youknow, the head of the union of
Nassau County and, and like wementioned before, you are the
CTO at a decent sized companycreating solutions that people
across the world use.
What do you attribute that to?
Shubhangi Srivastava (14:55):
I think a lot of it has to do with
resilience.
Mm-hmm.
I wouldn't personally for me notnegate the absolute enormous
support that I've had'cause iteases your path, however, that,
however, whatever that path maylook like for you.
(15:16):
Yeah.
If you have support it, it's alot.
You know, it's a paved pathinstead of you trying to grovel
further the road in front ofyou.
So that I think is, you know,I'm very fortunate in that sense
that I have had mm-hmm.
Support in every way, in everystep of the way in my life,
whether it is personal orprofessional.
And then also I'm, I'm a, I'm atop cookie in that sense.
(15:38):
I, I do not give up.
I, I, if I put my mind intosomething, i, I will not let go
until it's done.
And so I think for mepersonally, it would be, you
know, those two things whereand, and also as a, as a person
who is just constantly.
(15:59):
Thinking all the time.
Every time.
Mm-hmm.
About all the things that I seein front of me.
It's all problem, problem,problem.
And as a person to not overthinkand believe that, that it's,
it's, it's okay.
It is what it is, and believethat you can do it.
That if you're here doingsomething, then truly believe
(16:23):
that you can because it, it, itmatters.
It makes a huge impact.
Being positive about your ownrole and your.
You not just your roleprofessionally, but just your
role as a person on this earth.
To believe in that and, andattest to it with, and, and look
back and, and give yourselfapplaud.
(16:45):
I think very few of us take thetime.
'cause,'cause a lot of us, youknow, in our state of anxiety
would look back and.
Count faults.
I could have done this better,should have done this better.
Of course, maybe I would've donethat.
Maybe I should have done that.
But instead flipping the switchon that and thinking, I I did do
that.
And that's remarkable.
(17:07):
'cause
Jason Frazell (17:07):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (17:08):
To, to be able to do that is not a small
feat.
And, and I think it's importantto give yourself a pat in the
back once a while.
Jason Frazell (17:17):
Yeah.
Offer, offer something that I.
That has made a big differencefor me over the last few years,
and I heard it in what you justsaid there is there reaches a
point where your intellectualismand you're think and thinking
your way in and out of a problemdoesn't work any longer.
Like there's, and that's what,what like some people would call
(17:37):
it faith or courage.
It's like that thing, thatpersonality trait that.
You know, people go, oh, how doI, and you probably have, I
don't know if you do anymentoring, people are like, how
do I get promoted?
How do I do this?
How do I do that?
It's like, it's not just a howto.
Yeah.
If it was a how to, if you wanta, how to go read a book at on
Amazon.
Yeah.
And then you'll go, well thatdidn't work for me, so it must
be wrong.
(17:58):
Or like, there must be somethingwrong.
And, and I think this issomething, you know, as we kind
of pivot into talking about techhere mm-hmm.
There's the intellectual.
Ization of things and there'sthe analyzing of things and then
you reach and there are somethings that are That's great.
And there's other things youreach where you have to really
know how you feel about it.
Yeah.
Or you have to, like you said,you had to internalize what I
(18:18):
heard you say and all that isyou had to end up owning that
you like your grit createdopportunities for you.
And that's not really a thinkingthing.
I don't say grit is not athinking thing.
Amazing.
So let's talk about, let's talkabout your career path here.
So you started, you went, cameto school, you did your thing.
(18:40):
You started at NEP at NEPServices, and you've been there
ever since.
And you started as a softwareengineer.
Yes.
Which I would assert means thatyou are very good at,
technically at softwareengineering.
I call it fingers on thekeyboard.
You can probably do some, dosome cool stuff.
Yeah.
So you did that and so that, andyou were a computer, you said
you were a computer science, youhave education that, so that was
(19:00):
in your sweet spot?
Mm-hmm.
And you did that for a while?
Mm-hmm.
When did you realize that youmight wanna do something more
specifically potentially lead.
People or lead something greaterthan you doing.
'cause there's a lot of amazingpeople that can have amazing
careers just doing that work.
Yeah.
And they never have to doanything else.
And it's a well paid career likeyou, and you don't have to.
(19:23):
So I'm curious for you if youremember the inflection point
for you or if you had an aha oflike, oh, I'd like to lead a
team, or I'd like to setstrategy, you know, as CTO,
you're, I'm sure you're settingstrategy.
Walk us through how that wentfor you.
Shubhangi Srivastava (19:36):
It's, it's very interesting because as you
say that I'm thinking about, youknow, so many colleagues,
friends, other people that I,that I know from the industry
that.
Are, are truly like, no, Idon't, I don't want to go into
the realm of project managementor software manager or, you
know, and, and that definitely,I think is an inclination that
(19:58):
people have or they don't,whether it's a personal choice
for a lot of people, whetherthey mm-hmm.
They want, they love developmentand they want to continue to
progress in that world.
And that's amazing because.
Technology can do wonders.
And then there are people that Ithink for me, I.
(20:20):
I think I said it before have athing about problem solving.
If I see that there is somethingout there that is being done
that I can improve in any way,shape, or form I would
volunteer.
And so that was something thatwas happening within the company
where.
At the time when I joined, acouple months in, we were
(20:40):
working towards mobileapplication and there was a bit
of a struggle with the mobileapplication launch and I went
to.
Our now CEO Stacy Den and it waslike, you know, I know I'm new
and you have no reason to trustme in any way, shape, or form,
but I've done a lot of this workbefore in my school with
(21:02):
projects on mobile applications,and I would love to take this on
and see if I can make this alittle bit better.
And it just naturally progressedfrom then to finding more
challenges that I thought Icould help create better
efficiency for, or as I'mtalking to at the time, some of
(21:26):
my team members and then theyhad issues, whether it be.
An SOP related issue or a workrelated issue or something that
they're technically, you know,struggling with.
I noticed myself gettinggratification from.
Positive impact when otherpeople had more positive impact
(21:48):
with their job.
Mm-hmm.
And I felt that more stronglythan when I did something, and
that was for me.
Mm-hmm.
When I realized that I probablywant to go more into the realm
of.
People management
Jason Frazell (22:06):
mm-hmm.
Shubhangi Srivastava (22:07):
Strategies and, and all of that.
And less into the world ofdevelopment.
'cause,'cause I realize that ifI solve a problem, I'm happy
about it, but if I am maybecoaching someone else to solve a
problem.
Then I'm doubly happy about itbecause
Jason Frazell (22:23):
Perfect.
Shubhangi Srivastava (22:23):
Because I impacted, you know, whoever XY
Z's job and, and, and thoughtabout themselves to be like, oh,
this is amazing.
This is so cool.
I finished it and it's, it'ssuch a, it's very fulfilling for
me, I think.
Jason Frazell (22:35):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (22:36):
And that, that's, that's where it all
started.
This very nice.
Jason Frazell (22:42):
The worm, the wormhole of leadership.
That, that, that's your firstbook.
You can just, just take thewormhole of leadership.
Shubhangi Srivastava (22:48):
Yep.
Jason Frazell (22:49):
So let's talk about lessons learned.
Mm-hmm.
Moving from individualcontributor role to.
Leading a team doing, going fromtactical, more, not necessarily
tactical work, but again,fingers on keyboard to more
strategy.
And as CTO, generally, CTO,you're probably making
technology decisions.
(23:09):
You're making strategicdecisions on removing technical
debt and like what's the futureof the platform if we're gonna
make shifts and all thosethings.
What's been the, what's been themindset shift that you've had to
really empower in order to makethat move and be successful?
Shubhangi Srivastava (23:25):
I think one of the biggest ones for me
was that I don't have to do itall by myself.
Jason Frazell (23:33):
So hard, isn't it?
Shubhangi Srivastava (23:35):
It's one of the most basic core seems
very logical.
Like duh, obviously.
Totally.
And as a person who is.
Who has done this for like,what, four years of engineering,
two years masters a yearworking, you know, seven years
of just practicing and, anddoing all this thing by myself
(23:56):
to then getting to a place wherenow I have a team that is here
to support me and there areissues to, instead of I'm just
gonna do it by myself.
It's okay.
Yeah.
Instead of that being like.
Hey, let's talk through it.
Let's see if we can solve it.
So I think the shift on, youknow, the mindset side for me
(24:19):
and I attribute that to, stacyand other people that, that were
my colleagues at the time at npto have helped make me realize
that, you know what?
You, you don't have to byyourself, should we?
You, you got people.
And I'm like, yeah, you'reright.
And that, that was a, that was areally.
(24:41):
Beautiful thing in my headbecause it was like, I'm not
alone in this.
It's okay.
There are other people.
Yeah.
I have a very a lot of people atwork are like, how are you not
stressed about this?
There's like so many deadlines.
We've gotta hit so much in soshort amount of time.
Like, how are you not?
Stress and like,'cause I trustmy team.
I, I trust Yeah.
(25:01):
The work that we do, that we cancome up with solutions together
that we'll figure out a way andthat we're not alone in this.
And at the end of the day, it's,it's that, that's what's
important, you know?
You Yeah.
Wanna make sure that.
You're not burning yourself tothe ground, trying to figure out
solutions and, and gettingstressed and anxious over
(25:24):
deadlines that might get madeand might not.
Yeah, of course it's important,but I was like, I don't, you
know, there, there are so manyother things to stress about.
I think this is okay.
This is gonna be this.
Jason Frazell (25:36):
Any best practices or learnings that
you've had or also pitfallsaround how you've managed
stress, anxiety, tighttimelines.
Mm-hmm.
Burnout, if you've experiencedin your career, both as an
individual contributor, and thenhow do you, how do you look at
this?
(25:56):
And balance this, and let's justnormalize this for everybody
listening, and you and I knowthis, that in tech there are
times when the deadlines aretight and you have a, a feature
release, something out or anupgrade and it's gonna require
some additional time.
Yeah.
Some additional, like literallyenergy and time.
Mm-hmm.
How do you as a leader, andmaybe this is for the entire
executive team too, and I'll,I'll ask, I'll ask Stacy this as
(26:18):
well, she's gonna be on here onthe show shortly as well, is how
do you.
Where you're balancing businessoutput business outcomes with
our people need a break.
Yeah.
And have you, you've likelylearned these lessons for
yourself is my guess.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(26:39):
As most of us in our, in ourearly in our career, do we learn
to like, oh wait, I don't haveunlimited energy, and suddenly
my energy is gone because Ispent it all.
Shubhangi Srivastava (26:47):
Yeah.
That's a, that's, that's a roughlesson learned.
When you do learn it and ofcourse, I mean, I, I am a
perfectionist through andthrough.
Mm-hmm.
So I like to just run myselfthrough the ground until I get
to a point where I am absolutelya thousand percent happy with
what I produced.
And that never happens.
(27:07):
And not just in technology, itjust never happens.
Period.
Yeah.
And so learn how to.
Dissociate from you wantingsomething versus what is
happening, I think is a veryimportant skillset to, to learn.
(27:29):
Whether it be in development oranything else.
Especially when we work in a devenvironment and we've got, like
you said, really tight timelinesor there's, you know, like a big
push to get something done.
And you're thinking, okay, wellthere, there are two ways to go
about it.
I can either pull people and getmore people involved or I can
(27:50):
get more overtime.
Or it's gonna, because this isnot a job where you can be
passively involved.
That's right.
This is a job where you have tobe cerebrally available and
involved the entire time infront of a computer.
Coding a solution to a problem.
You, you can't be like doing 15things at the same time.
(28:12):
It has, you have to be presentand for someone to be present,
you are just naturally gonna dobetter if you are not stressed
if you're not anxious, if you'renot burnt out.
So for me, my priority hasalways been the team.
When there are strategies aroundit, when there are pushes that
goes through functionality, ofcourse there is stuff that, you
(28:34):
know, we, we say, okay, we'vegotta get this done in a month,
and it's, you know, there'sdeadline, blah, blah.
I, I personally, when comes timelike that, try to, you know, put
myself in the position of theother person and make sure that
I'm doing whatever it is that Ican do to make their life.
(28:55):
During that time, a little bitmore comfortable whether it be
me being more involved in, inany type of coding or any type
of testing phase or any type ofarchitecture phase to just
having half an hour of like achitchat session to decompress,
like, you know,
Jason Frazell (29:13):
nice.
Shubhangi Srivastava (29:14):
Let's not talk about work at all.
Let's, let's.
Share pictures of our vacationand talk about what's happening.
'cause you know, with the remoteculture, that's something that
that's something that I've, I'velearned to do a little bit more
in, in order to create morepersonal relationships with
people, because these are peoplewho are spending pretty much an
entire date was.
(29:34):
Yeah.
For, and it's always nice tolike people that you work with
instead of Absolutely, yes.
It's touch them all the time.
Jason Frazell (29:42):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (29:43):
You know, we, we do like small chatty
sessions where we're justtalking about, Hey, you had a
new kid, or what's happening?
And it, it just makes things alittle more lively and a little
less stressed.
Yeah.
Personally, I have.
Learned the hard way that thisis not the end of the world and
(30:03):
that it's, it's gonna be okay.
And yeah, a a lot of timespriorities are just priorities
and if we stop panicking alittle bit.
And figuring out a way to getthrough to it.
There's only two options.
You either can or you cannot.
Jason Frazell (30:21):
Mm-hmm.
Shubhangi Srivastava (30:22):
And it's as simple as that.
If you cannot, you just tellpeople you can't.
And if you can't, then you doand
Jason Frazell (30:28):
then go do it.
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (30:28):
And, and, and I think a lot of the, the
anxiety and the burnout and thestress, it comes from the
unknown.
It's like not knowing how farthis is gonna go, am I gonna
work on harder sprints for threeweeks, six weeks, a year?
Is this push gonna go on for.
Seven years at a time.
Versus having leadership that,you know, is supportive, you
(30:51):
know, that they will interveneif stuff goes a little to the
south too much.
I think trust is a really bigfactor when it comes to any
place.
But especially in, in adevelopment environment, it's
important that your team trustsyou as a leader to have your
back.
Yeah.
(31:12):
And that's all that matters atthe end of the day.
Jason Frazell (31:15):
Yeah, I.
More questions for you to wrapup here today.
Mm-hmm.
Number one, what's somethingthat you and the team are
working on that you get excitedabout?
And you can keep it, you know,high level, I'm sure you're
working on things that aren'tpublic yet.
Yeah.
What, what are you excited aboutthat you're working on?
Shubhangi Srivastava (31:31):
All the secrets.
Jason Frazell (31:32):
All the big secrets.
Shubhangi Srivastava (31:34):
Yeah.
They're, we're excited about alot of things I think we're NEP
excited about incorporating moreartificial intelligence into our
platform.
Sure.
That, that is a big one for us.
It's a little bit of a challengebecause of the client base that
we serve.
Jason Frazell (31:49):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (31:49):
Owing security and other reasons.
That's Yeah, of course.
At the utmost forefront of mythought.
Anytime we're trying to dosomething.
Jason Frazell (31:56):
Sure.
Shubhangi Srivastava (31:56):
But AI is something that we're all I.
Very, very hyped about,'causethe, the, the minute someone
says the name, there's likeglitter in the eyes and it's
Jason Frazell (32:07):
very,
Shubhangi Srivastava (32:10):
And there are some other cool features
that have been on the pipelinefor a really long time that
we're finally gonna get to doprobably next year.
And I'm personally very stokedabout it because this has been
like years and making, and tosee that come to a fruition.
With our new Connect Plusplatform.
Mm-hmm.
Jason Frazell (32:29):
It's
Shubhangi Srivastava (32:29):
very exciting because we've, you
know, been whiteboarding thisand, and filling up all the
windows and the walls of theoffices with all Yeah.
Of garbage gibberish.
And to finally have a thingthat's tangible and running and,
and working and helping people,it's absolutely immense.
We've been.
(32:50):
We sometimes get testimonialsand stuff from clients, and one
of the ones was so, so amazingthat it.
I feel very proud of the workthat we do at the company.
You know, there, there are copsout there that are, are touting
that the platform allowed themto reach out to the rest of
their membership to find asuspect that shot a police.
(33:12):
Wow.
Yeah.
Within That's amazing.
Two hours of time just becausethey were able to reach out to
other precinct members in a moretargeted.
Communication then Sure.
Blasting everybody's radio.
Sure.
And that's such a, that's such areal life impact that you,
nothing can top that and Yeah.
So we're excited when we see,you know, results like those,
(33:35):
and then other things that wecan do to improve that.
Excited about any options toinclude mental health resources
for our mm-hmm.
Responders.
I think that's a big one that I,I'm personally invested in a
little bit to see.
Yeah.
Through the finish line on thatone.
Suicide support and mm-hmm.
And all of those things.
PTSD, trauma related stuff.
(33:56):
So that's, that's something thatwe're, that's
Jason Frazell (34:00):
for those amazing people keeping us.
Shubhangi Srivastava (34:04):
Trying, we're trying to fulfill as much
as we can with the little, youknow, little service that we can
provide.
Jason Frazell (34:11):
Yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (34:11):
Because it's, it's a tough job out
there.
It's a tough world.
Yeah.
And however, NEP, whatever wecan do to make their lives even
10% easier.
Yeah.
It's definitely worth it.
Jason Frazell (34:24):
Yeah.
To wrap up and this, you're not,you don't know this is coming,
but I'm so curious how youbalance.
All the stem and all the reallytechnical things you do with
also being an artist or like,what about the, the other, the
other, the other side.
It, it's, I'm, I'm reallyfascinated by that and we'll
just spend a couple minutes onthis.
So first of all, what kind of,like, what kind of artist do you
(34:46):
consider yourself, or what kindof art do you focus on?
Shubhangi Srivastava (34:49):
I am usually an acrylic abstract.
Person.
Jason Frazell (34:56):
Okay.
Shubhangi Srivastava (34:56):
So I like to I started very young in, in
arts and craft, and I always.
I enjoy it.
It, I've always liked it.
I started with oil pastels whenI was younger.
I moved into every type ofmedium imaginable, you know,
from glass to oil, to acrylic,to landscape portrait, you name
(35:20):
it.
I've, I've dabbled in it.
But now I find myselfgravitating more towards
abstract acrylics.
Nice.
It's.
I don't know.
It's just a way to, I guess I, Ilike the calmness that it
provides me.
Jason Frazell (35:37):
Yeah.
I was, yeah.
I think we're, and, and thanksfor sharing all that.
I was, I was wondering, you, yousaid before you're a problem
solver.
You're really good at that.
Do you really, when you'redoing, when you're creating a
new piece of art, do you relateto that as a problem to be
solved?
Shubhangi Srivastava (35:53):
No, I think that's when I shut off my
brain on that, on that, yeah.
Particular aspect of things.
Although the perfectionistcreeps in a lot where I'm like,
you know, of course I would notconsider a painting finish until
I'm genuinely very happy with itand an ira.
So I have to decide.
This is the point.
You gotta let, let it go, man.
But
Jason Frazell (36:12):
yeah.
Shubhangi Srivastava (36:13):
But I, I think when I'm painting, I, I
try to just.
It's, it's a, it's a me world atthe time.
It's like, you know, yeah.
Noise.
Do not think about anythingelse.
I, I love colors.
I love the, the, the calmnessthat it brings me in that
process.
I, I love not knowing what I'mdoing.
(36:36):
'cause mostly Yeah.
Is, there's no plan to it there.
It's full chaos.
Yeah, you go in and you have noidea.
You decide on a whim, okay, Ilike this color and I like that
color, and I want this, thisedge, and I want that, you know,
texture.
And I just do it on, on a whim.
And fortunate that it turns outgood or it could be really bad.
(36:58):
Yeah,
Jason Frazell (36:59):
yeah.
Beautiful.
But when I'm
Shubhangi Srivastava (37:00):
doing my job, I think the artist in me
creeps up a lot.
Jason Frazell (37:05):
Yeah, of course.
Shubhangi Srivastava (37:07):
I, I, I do tend to think of a lot more
outta the box creative ways tosolve something that I would not
traditionally if I am justthinking about traditional
solutions.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, you know, hacks andthings and switches or how about
we don't use any of this and howabout, mm-hmm.
(37:30):
Do a complete 180 and flip likethe number of times I have
absolutely changed the entireproject.
Just like that is astonishinglycrazy to me.
Yeah.
Because the rest of the team islike, you spent two months
making this and you're okay.
And I'm like, yeah.
Yeah.
As long as whatever we're doinggets us to a better finish line.
(37:53):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Jason Frazell (37:57):
Is it just my opinion, I think that's so
healthy.
I.
To have something where you'respending time in, you're
spending time in, in likequantitative and coding and
managing other folks like thatto have some sort of outlet that
is the opposite.
And I had a feeling that wasgonna be your answer, so I'm
like, oh, abstract.
Like, that's not a problem.
You have no idea.
You're you.
No, you're just like.
(38:18):
Turn off that part of your brainand just allow it to free flow.
So my encouragement is, and I'm,I'm gonna speak for you'cause
I'm sure you'd say the samething if, if you are a, you
know, kind of a right brainproblem solving, you love that,
find something that allows youto get to turn that off, that's
really healthy for your brainand for staying in your
executive state for longer.
And the other thing that I heardin all that is like, the science
(38:40):
of that is we're only creativewhen we're under the executive
start part of our brain.
Mm-hmm.
When we're in survival stateburnout.
Yes.
Deadlines stressed.
We lose our creativity and we goto the thing we know to do,
which is intellectualize things,the, the things we've done.
But our brain goes, Hey, it'snot important that we're
creative.
We shut that off.
So my encouragement to you, Iwanna give a quick shout out to
(39:02):
this.
If anybody's listening andthey're interested in that.
My friend Dr.
Eugene Choi, he is been on thepodcast a couple of times.
His whole episode is aboutexecutive state and survival
state functioning.
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah.
And yeah, it's very cool in thehuman brain.
He does a lot of, he does a lotof neurology things.
Well, SBY, amazing conversation.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Congratulations to you and theteam.
Thanks for doing all the, thegreat work you're doing.
(39:24):
Like I said, to our firstresponders and all the people
you're keeping safe andconnected with their, connected
with their communities.
And enjoy your next trip toNassau County.
That was so, that was so random.
I had no idea.
And yes, and keep, keep up thegood work with you and the rest
of the team over there at NEPand we'll, we'll talk to you
again soon.
Shubhangi Srivastava (39:42):
Yeah, I appreciate your time today.
It was absolute pleasure.
Jason Frazell (39:45):
Thanks.
Speaker (39:46):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Talking to
Cool People with Jason Frizzell.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please tell your friends, follow
us on Instagram and Facebook andgive us a shout out or take a
moment to leave a review oniTunes.
If something from today'sepisode pique your interest and
you'd like to connect, email usat podcast@jasonzell.com.
(40:09):
We love hearing from ourlisteners because you're cool
people too.
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