May 21, 2024 • 40 mins
The incredible Thomas Renner joins the show to talk about his journey as a high end fitness and cycling coach to running his own successful coaching practice, his early realization about his sexuality and how that impacted his childhood and the power of community.
"I'm a jack of all trades and a master of none, and I used to wear it like a badge of dishonor."
Coaching leaders on how to come to life expressing their full identity and purpose through conscious internal transformation. "Be your own Best Friend."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Frazell (00:11):
Hey everybody, it is my absolute delight to
welcome onto the podcast today,Thomas Renner.
Thomas and I had never met,Well, we did through a text
message, which was like a weirdconfluence of events about three
years ago in a coachingenvironment we were in.
And then I actually got a chanceto spend Thomas in person in
(00:31):
March of 2024.
We went to a men's retreattogether.
And if you've been listening tothe show, I've talked a little
bit about my experience therewith Elena Armijo and some of
the other folks I've had onrecently, Thomas and I shared a
bunk room.
We shared, we shared, shared abunk room.
We shared some emotions.
We shared some good food.
And I knew when I met Thomas,like this is, this is one of the
people I really want to getconnected with and also have you
(00:52):
share with my audience and withour audience, what you're up to.
Thomas, welcome.
Good morning to you.
Where are you coming into usfrom today?
Thomas Renner (00:59):
Good morning, Jason.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Pleasure to always be in yourpresence.
So I'm coming to you fromDallas, Texas.
Jason Frazell (01:06):
So this is why I have Thomas on.
He's just an immediateflatterer.
It's he's so sweet.
I love it.
So Tom, I have
Thomas Renner (01:11):
ulterior motives at all times, Jason.
Well, yeah,
Jason Frazell (01:13):
of course.
Yeah, me too, me too.
Yeah.
We're, we're just, we're justgoing to improv with each other
in our, in our lowest self thewhole time, which is ironic
because Thomas does a number ofthings, he just wrapped up a
really significant part.
Of his life.
And we'll talk just a little bitabout that.
And what Thomas does now is heis a life and leadership coach.
He went through the same coachtraining program that I went
through.
We weren't in the cohorttogether, but same, same
(01:35):
company.
He's also a Yogi and he is acommunity builder.
He, one of the reasons I thinkThomas, you and I immediately
have, we both love people.
And not everybody loves people.
There are a lot of people whodon't like people.
I happen to be a person whoreally loves people.
And when I met you, I'm like, Ithink Thomas loves people too.
So you're a community builder.
So before we kick off here andlike, you know, get further into
(01:56):
what you're up to now, whatwould you like us to know about
you to kick this off?
Thomas Renner (02:01):
Oh gosh, it's always an interesting question
because it makes me think oflike, what's my elevator pitch
to like sell myself?
And that's absolutely like, notthe lane that I would want to go
in.
Neither do I want you to do thateither.
Not selling myself at all.
I actually just did a, a smalllike journal entry on like, what
are three fun things that I wantto share as I meet new people
(02:22):
that was sort of describe mewithout describing me.
My favorite place to grow upgoing to was SeaWorld.
I used to cry at the last Shamushow every night.
It was the nighttime show.
Jason Frazell (02:35):
Yep.
Thomas Renner (02:36):
I collected Beanie Babies for years.
It's the worst investment I'veever made.
I was gonna say, and now you're
Jason Frazell (02:41):
sitting on And now you're like, and now you're
recording this from your yacht.
I mean, obviously that turnedout well.
From
Thomas Renner (02:47):
my walk up apartment.
I had over 250 of them and overthe years, like we've dispersed
them with family and sold someof them.
And my dad has most of them now.
Jason Frazell (02:57):
Yeah.
Thomas Renner (02:58):
And.
Yeah, you know, I'm reluctant toagree with you for some reason
this morning about lovingpeople, but I do love people.
I love what people can do andwhat people can be, and I love
helping them do what they wantto do.
Like, that's something that'simportant for people to know.
Jason Frazell (03:15):
Yeah.
So let's, let's briefly coveroff on, and you were just
telling me this, what youliterally just retired from
yesterday.
It just happens to be acoincidence.
We don't, I don't, I don't knowthat we timed this on purpose.
And then we're going to take alittle bit, step back on maybe
how you mentioned yourchildhood.
So Thomas, just so everybodyknow, what have you been doing?
What is one of the things you'vebeen doing for the last 13 years
that is no longer in your incomestream?
Thomas Renner (03:39):
Yeah, to give a little like circling back.
I have been told for a long timewhat I should do and what I
would be good at and The joy inthat was I was pretty darn good
a lot of things Yeah, I sort ofcoined this this phrase for
(04:00):
myself that it's it's verycommon to It's just like that
I'm a jack of all trades and amaster of none.
Jason Frazell (04:07):
Yeah,
Thomas Renner (04:08):
and I used to really wear it like a badge of
dishonor.
I was like, I feel like I'm justmediocre at a, oh, can I cuss?
Sorry.
Of course you can cuss.
I was like mediocre at a fuckton of things.
Yeah, I'm not great at one thingand what has sort of grown from
that was Like my entire careeras an actor, my career is in
(04:30):
fitness, my career as a coach,but none of them I really had
chosen until now, which is beinga coach.
So I forget what your questionwas.
Jason Frazell (04:39):
Oh, just what, what's, what's the thing just
share with us.
Cause I mentioned it.
What's the thing you literallyjust retired from yesterday.
Thomas Renner (04:45):
Yeah.
So like all that to be said,like cycling is something that
was a big part of my life in thefitness arena for a very, very
long time, 13 years andcounting.
It feels like.
And I taught my last cyclingclass last night.
I say that I'm going intocycling retirement.
You know, you never know.
You can always come out ofretirement and you can make new
decisions.
(05:06):
Of course.
But, I really came to termswith, it was an era, it was a
time in my life that I reallychose into the joy that it
brought, the success that itgave me.
And then I realized that itwasn't bringing me joy anymore.
And that people that were in myclasses deserved to have someone
(05:30):
that wanted to constantly bethere.
And I wanted to be there withthem just doing other things.
I was like, let's go have amargarita instead.
I just wanted to do otherthings.
So yeah, I, I retired fromcycling last night and you know,
it comes with a lot of joy, alot of grief and a lot of,
Excitement for what's next.
(05:51):
And then what's next is kind ofwhat I'm already doing.
Just doing more of it.
Jason Frazell (05:54):
Yeah.
But, what, well, what did youride out into the sunset on?
What was the song?
That you wrapped up your lastclass with.
Thomas Renner (06:02):
Fashion of His Love by Lady Gaga.
Jason Frazell (06:06):
Nice, there it was.
That was so cool.
Do you even know
Thomas Renner (06:08):
that song?
Jason Frazell (06:09):
I do.
Yeah, my wife is a My wife usedto be a Lady Gaga fan, now she's
just a straight Swiftie, butLady Gaga was her person for a
long time.
Thomas Renner (06:16):
So I actually played the first playlist I ever
created 13 years ago for my lastclass.
Jason Frazell (06:22):
Wow! That's so cool.
And so that would have been onher first album.
It really was.
It really was.
Yeah, amazing.
Thomas Renner (06:29):
Fashion of Her is Love, I think was on the second
one.
Jason Frazell (06:32):
Okay, yeah.
But I'm terrible at that, so Icould be wrong.
And I could be wrong too.
So let's talk a little bit aboutyour background, like how you
were raised, a little bit ofwhat's led you into acting, to
fitness, to yogi, and then let'stalk about your journey into
coaching and what you're up tonow.
Thomas Renner (06:49):
Yeah, what's the one thing that you want to know
about my childhood?
I'm curious if there's somethingthat's burning on your mind.
Jason Frazell (06:54):
Yeah, well if I, and I know that we've talked
about, we have a mutual trusthere, you had mentioned
something at the retreat, and werespect the confidentiality
there, and I checked with you,about something about your
childhood that created a hugeimpact for you, and created a
lot of what you had said, youridentity, Especially as an, as a
young adult.
So I think what I'm, I think thequestion I just want to straight
(07:14):
up ask is, and you had sharedwith, with me and with us, and
I'll, I'll share it here.
Cause we've, I've got yourpermission is you said that you
knew very early on that you weregay at a, at a young age, and
that's not always the experiencefor folks.
And then you had mentionedsomething about how that
drastically impacted a lot ofhow you showed up in the world
for a long time.
Like you said, expectations,what you should be doing, et
(07:35):
cetera.
So I'd love to hear a little bitabout how that went for you.
Thomas Renner (07:39):
Yeah, I knew I was gay early on, but I didn't
know how to name it.
So what you might not know is Idid grow up very religious.
I grew up in a Methodist churchwith which the Methodist church
has had a few shifts and changesover the years.
But when I was there, they wererelatively gay accepting that I
(07:59):
knew of, but we never used theword gay, like gay was never a
term that was used to identify.
It was always used as aderogatory term.
And even then, I didn't knowwhat it meant.
I just knew that I liked men.
So cut to me you know, sittingon the living room carpet at 1am
when my parents are asleepwatching Showtime, but it's
(08:19):
static and in snow screenbecause we didn't own the
channel watching.
realizing, Oh, this is me.
Like this is, I like this.
I like, I like men.
What does that mean?
So I didn't know.
So fast forward, like I knew Iwas different.
I was in the theater.
Everyone kind of knew I wasdifferent.
(08:40):
No one really talked about it inhigh school.
I wasn't the cool kid.
I was incredibly overweight.
So I just found my community intheater and like in theater,
it's an incredibly acceptingcommunity.
So I didn't ever feel like I wasostracized and ever tried to try
to be anything that I wasn't.
Then I went to college and Ilook back on this as like
(09:01):
slight, identity trauma, whichit wasn't in the moment.
But like, I look back andreflect and be like, I could
have processed that differently.
But I finally found out and knewthat I was gay, I named it, I
had an experience that was like,this is real.
So I ran home to the apartmentcomplex I was living in, I ran
into a bunch of my friends thatwere in the apartment.
(09:23):
And I just really ran in andsaid, I'm gay.
And they were like, we know.
And then I ran out.
Jason Frazell (09:30):
Their response was actually just, We know.
That was good.
That's, it was just like, Weknow.
Thomas Renner (09:35):
Literally, they were watching a movie, and they
didn't even like, think twice.
They're like, We know.
And then I just walked out, andI was like, What the fuck?
Like, I just had this big like,Moment.
And they were like, We know.
And when I say trauma, it waslike, I felt like I wasn't
validated even though I wasvalidating myself and like
understanding who I was
Jason Frazell (09:54):
sure
Thomas Renner (09:55):
all that to be said Kind of what boiled up for
me in the retreat Which is whereI think your listeners will sort
of come back full circle asyou've talked about it before I
have really leaned into beinggay as the only part of my
identity Which then created RiffRiffs in like my relationship
with straight men, for instance,I find, I find slash find or
(10:19):
found slash find it hard tosometimes connect with straight
men because I had sort ofidentified with the sexuality or
the sexual part of being gay,not what does it mean to be
queer?
Those are two interestinglydifferent questions for me.
It's like, what does it mean tobe gay?
What does it mean to be queer?
And how do those identities comeinto play?
(10:40):
So when I went on the retreat,it was really nice.
to be in community with men whoidentified as straight and some
just some queer men as well andbe intimate with them in a non
sexual platonic way.
I didn't know how to do thatbecause my first instinct is
always, and I learned this toeven circle back to one of my
(11:02):
longest term relationships, Ilearned that For some reason
when I meet someone the firstquestion I often would ask
myself is do I want to sleepwith them?
That
Jason Frazell (11:12):
was just an
Thomas Renner (11:14):
instinctual question based on a previous
relationship that I had had Andso to be in a room of men that
wasn't my first instinct.
Don't get me wrong like I hadthose thoughts, but they weren't
the first presenting ones.
And by the end of the retreat, Ihad one of the leaders reflected
me.
It's like, you are not just agay man.
Yeah.
And that sort of hit me.
(11:34):
Because I knew that, but Iwasn't acting like it.
Jason Frazell (11:39):
Tommy, you said something, first of all, thank
you for sharing all that andbeing vulnerable about that.
You said something that reallystruck me.
We all have a version of yourimmediate what I call that a
filter of like what I sleep withthem We all have a version of
that and we heard from someother folks who were there some
folks Said am I safe with thisperson?
(12:00):
Like it's an immediate like anInstinction thing for me.
I think it's can I easilyconnect and have fun with this
person is like the immediatefilter I go to with other men,
especially I think for women Iprobably at least in the past
had similar to what came up foryou You And and I, I just,
that's, that really was profoundand hit me on like, so my, my
(12:21):
encouragement for the audiencelistening is like, what's your
immediate thing that you filterfor?
And what you just said, Thomasis without, you know, we don't
need to share exactly how oldyou are, but it's not like
you're a 22 and you have neverreally learned how to do this.
And finally you're starting towork on this.
So I do want to ask you aquestion as a straight man who
(12:42):
doesn't have the experience youhave is what Should straight men
who care and want to createthose places that have somebody
who identifies as queer feelcomfortable?
Like, what would you need?
Or what was it that made adifference for you?
And I think, and we, we heardthis from a couple other folks
too that were there thatidentified as queers.
(13:02):
What is it that makes thedifference?
Because I would imagine it'sreally hard.
Thomas Renner (13:07):
I think it's interesting.
You're going to laugh at myanswer because of the antithesis
of what I just shared.
I think it's that they don'tfilter with gay men.
All of them want to sleep withme.
Because we're not coming on toall straight men, like we're
not, like we just, that's notthe case.
Right.
That was the case for me.
(13:28):
Right.
But I'm not the deciding factorfor the queer community.
Right.
So I know that might sound like,wait a second, this is not
making any sense.
This is not connecting, but Inever felt like threatened by
any of the men that were there,that they would Assume that all
gay men want to sleep with mebecause that leads sometimes, I
(13:52):
don't have to, I won't say forall that leads to sometimes the
already barrier to connection.
Totally.
Well, it's almost like all thatwe're built to do is have sex
with each other or wants to dothat.
Then there are so many otherversions of connection that we
really can focus on.
And that's why your filter is sogreat.
(14:13):
Do I want to have fun andconnect with this person?
What a great connection filter.
Jason Frazell (14:20):
Sometimes, but I will say the downside for me in
this Thomas is that if myintuition is wrong or I'm having
a bad day or like my guard is upmore for whatever reason, I'm
sure I miss out on opportunitiesfor amazing relationships with
other men, but then I'm talkingabout other men specifically,
and I might miss because foryou, same thing, like, oh, like,
(14:42):
do I want to sleep with them?
Oh, I don't.
So then move on, move on.
And I don't know if that's howit showed up and move on.
But I'm just really thinkingabout the reflection of for
myself on how that filter isalso limiting because I don't
actually know.
It's just an intuition or aninstinctual thing, but that
isn't always correct.
Thomas Renner (14:58):
Yeah, but we're also human, right?
So we're going to make those,like, cognitive errors.
But what I wanted to reallyshare as the learning from the
weekend in relation to thisconversation is, gang and
straight men aren't thatdifferent.
No.
I held them as wildly different.
(15:19):
Which caused me to put upbarriers to build relationships
with straight men.
Now there's a few differentrelationships in my past that
have led me to feel this way.
And I've, I've reflected backand I've done the work and I'm,
I'm looking even still on whatit is.
But that's why it was sopowerful for me to be like, Hey,
we're not that different.
Okay.
How would I connect with them?
(15:41):
Cause I don't connect on thestereotypical things often.
Like I can spout out differentfacts around sports that make me
sound really smart.
But at the end of the day, Iwould literally rather do
anything else in the world thanwatch a football game.
I find that to be nails on achalkboard.
It is incredibly boring.
That's my opinion.
Doesn't mean it has to be foreverybody.
(16:01):
And again, that's alsostereotypical straight, like if
I was to stereotype the straightman.
Totally.
I don't want to go to Hooters.
Those are sort of, I mean, I saythis in jest, but also factual,
right?
Like I don't want like thatthere's a restaurant named Twin
Peaks.
I'm like, Lord have mercy.
Now we have our own things likethat in the gay community too.
(16:22):
So I'm not, I'm not dogging.
I'm not yucking anybody's yumhere.
I'm just sharing with like, Ihave held gay men and straight
men so differently that causedme to not connect with them and
what that retreat really helpedme do from even looking at my
careers until this point andrelationships, it's allowed me
to really shift and say, okay, Ican have the thought of, do I
(16:45):
want to sleep with them and do Iwant to have fun and connect and
what's my value to them andwhat's their value to me?
What's another question I canask?
Like there's an, and to it all,not a one question.
Answers everything.
Jason Frazell (17:02):
I love it.
You're talking to an improverover here.
And I think you are as well anactor You've probably done some
improv training.
So yeah, like what's next?
I as we're talking as I I justhad this image of you Tom on
your own And I had an image ofyou it on it like your own
television show and literallythe setup is that you get asked
out On this date by your perfectguy He's like and I'm gonna take
(17:24):
you to Hooters and we're gonnawatch the football game at one
o'clock It's like the worstFucking nightmare, first date
you could ever go on.
Thomas Renner (17:32):
I would literally say, no thanks.
Jason Frazell (17:34):
You're like, I don't, my filter for I wanna be
with you was high, it's at zeronow.
It's just, you're dead to me.
Like, we could be friends.
Like, is this
Thomas Renner (17:42):
the price of admission to sleep with you
tonight?
Because then maybe.
But, if this is the price ofadmission for like the rest of
my life, we're out.
Jason Frazell (17:52):
That, I see this for you.
This is good.
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(18:35):
So.
Now, based on everything you'veshared so far, you mentioned
something that I really wouldlike to hone in on and it was
career choices based on what youjust said.
So let's, if you don't mindsharing, like how has what
you've outlined for us so farinfluenced us?
what you've done and what you'redoing now.
Thomas Renner (18:57):
Yeah.
I mean, when you think about myelevator pitch, when I talk to
people about coachingspecifically, like I, again, had
just sort of done everythingthat everyone told me that, Hey,
you'd be really good at this.
You should do it.
And I did it for 32 years.
I did that.
And it was great.
I had a wonderful life.
It was successful, successful.
I'm using air quotes everybodybecause like you are the only
(19:18):
person that gets to define whatthat is.
But at 32, I lost my jobsuddenly.
The company that I'd beenworking for had gone under for a
variety of reasons.
And what were you doing?
What were you
Jason Frazell (19:30):
doing at the time?
What, what kind of role?
Thomas Renner (19:32):
Full time cycling instructor.
I was teaching for a company.
I was traveling across the U S Iwas hiring new instructors,
scouting new instructors,training new instructors.
And I was the lead instructorfor our region here in Dallas.
And I really loved it.
Like I had, we truly built acommunity.
I loved the people that I workedwith.
I love the people that werementoring me.
(19:54):
And so in that, Happened it waspretty traumatic.
I even back looking now.
I'm like that moment in time.
I Didn't even fully recognizethe the traumatic experience
that it was
Jason Frazell (20:07):
yeah,
Thomas Renner (20:08):
but what happened was the summer before it all
went down.
So this is 2019.
This is pre pandemic One of mywriters actually gave me a book.
Her name is Brooke Castillo.
She's a master coach.
She has a coaching school calledthe life coach school.
She's got a podcast too.
So it's run a great podcast.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah, I know.
I know who she is.
Oh, you know her.
Jason Frazell (20:29):
Yeah.
Thomas Renner (20:29):
I know.
I know life.
I know the life coach school.
I don't know.
I
Jason Frazell (20:31):
know the life coach school.
Thomas Renner (20:35):
Yeah, and the book was self coaching 101 and
when I tell you Jason that I amNOT a reader I'm not a reader.
Like I don't really enjoyreading that much And I read
that book sitting by the pool inmy speedo summer 2019 like it
was my job And I'm so glad thatI did because I'd already
(20:57):
started thinking about, Hey,what's the next level of my
coaching?
What's the next level of mylife?
And then when Flywheel closed, Iwas like, I need to make a
bigger change.
So Flywheel closed, cut to me,working for Equinox at the time,
and then the pandemic hits.
You're like, well, WTF, like nowwhat I really do, I had a couple
(21:21):
of friends that had gone throughthe accomplishment coaching, the
coaching program that I wentthrough and they were like, you
should do it.
I'm just fast forwarding a lot.
And June of or July of 2020pandemic, I decided to invest in
the next stage of my life.
I decided it.
Nobody said you should be acoach.
No one said you'd be really goodat this.
(21:43):
I decided, you know what?
I have been helping people for Xamount of years in this way.
Now I want to get paid for it inthis way.
It's not going to be fitness.
It's not going to be on a bike.
And I got to make that decisionbecause I then knew who I was.
I knew I was built to helppeople succeed, create their own
life.
(22:03):
I have a deep seated empathy andcompassion for the human
existence, for people when I'mwith them.
And I've been given a superpowerto do that.
So, why not do it?
Jason Frazell (22:15):
Amazing.
When you decided So that's whereI'm at today.
Amazing, Thomas.
So, so, what was the experiencelike, Were you present at the
time when you chose this foryourself that you were actually
getting to choose something foryourself?
Thomas Renner (22:30):
I don't know if I was fully present to it.
I did realize that nobody helpedme make the decision.
Jason Frazell (22:39):
Mm hmm.
Thomas Renner (22:40):
Which Which I think was the big defining
factor is nobody called me andsaid, we want you to be a coach
here.
Right?
No one said, what's your newcareer?
When are you going to startbeing a coach?
I just said to myself, I'm notan entrepreneur at my core.
I'm not an entrepreneur like atall.
I am the most organized,disorganized human being you
(23:02):
will ever meet.
So it really was like, okay, I'mgoing to, I'm going to do this.
And even looking back, it's beenfive years now, Essentially five
years, four years, I suppose.
Is my business where I thoughtit would be?
No, but I'm building it on myown time on my own journey.
And I'm choosing it.
No one said you got to speedthis up.
(23:24):
You're going too slow.
You got to do this faster.
I am choosing it because of thisis the lifestyle that I want.
This is what's important to me.
These are the kinds ofexperiences I want.
And if I did it any differently,that wouldn't be available to
me.
Yeah.
So I took the learning of thatreally powerfully and I take
(23:45):
that into my business and mylife now.
It's like, okay, I ask myselfquestions like, okay, what am I
doing this for?
Who am I doing this
Jason Frazell (23:52):
for?
Thomas Renner (23:52):
Do I want to do this?
And the most powerful answerthat I often give myself is, I
don't know.
And the more that you say, Idon't know to yourself, you will
get an answer.
Absolutely.
But you'd be willing to say, Idon't know.
It's more comfortable for, or itwas more comfortable for me,
(24:14):
even though I didn't know tokeep doing what everyone said
I'd be good at.
Jason Frazell (24:17):
Sure.
I mean, that makes perfectsense.
Did you find, were you somebodyhistorically who would always,
people would tell you, you'd begood at things.
Were you also somebody who likedto check with a lot of people
on, Hey, I'm thinking aboutdoing this.
Can I get your opinion?
Get your advice, a lot ofexternal, I don't call it
validation.
I think there's a lot of valuein trusted mentors and people
(24:39):
around you, but, but you wantedto get a lot of feedback on
whether your decision was theright decision based on other
people's opinions.
Absolutely.
The
Thomas Renner (24:46):
only, the only other decision, which is
probably why I was always shyingaway from it, that I was like,
I'm going to make this decisionand I'm not going to ask
anybody, was taking out loanswith Sally Mae.
And look where that got me,Jason.
Fucked.
And so that was just a goodanswer to be like, Oh, I can't
trust myself.
Like I need, I need to ask forhelp and they need to tell me
what I'm going to do.
(25:07):
And now I'm like, okay.
Take ownership or responsibilityfor it.
Yeah, that was a really terribledecision.
You can't go back and change it.
But now I know that asking forhelp and asking for support is
something that you choose intonot as the deciding factor, but
as part of it.
It's part of the journey.
It's part of your decisionmaking.
It's not the decision that youmake.
Jason Frazell (25:30):
You said this is a great segue into a
conversation I'm about to havewith my friend Sheila next week
on the podcast.
It's like a timed guest.
And she speaks and talks a lotabout expectations and how
there's four types ofexpectations.
I just heard her talk about thisa couple weeks ago, so I'm going
to share a preview of this andoffer it to you.
I think this will be a goodconversation starter for us.
(25:50):
She said there's four types ofexpectations.
There's expectations we put onourselves.
There's expectations we put onothers.
There's expectations others puton us.
And the fourth one is,expectations we believe that are
on us that nobody ever put onus.
That we have somehow created.
And her whole, and she's acoach, and she's an attorney and
(26:13):
a social worker, and it's areally cool framework for
looking at expectations.
That's
Thomas Renner (26:16):
a dangerous combination.
It is, she's, she's
Jason Frazell (26:18):
She's a, she's kind of a master of all of them
too, which Pretty frightening ina good way.
Yeah, she does a lot of good Butthe idea there is and I've heard
her speak a couple weeks ago Theidea is how easy it is and I'll
just speak for myself to confusewhere those land for me Of like,
Oh, the expectation that nobodyever said that I needed to do or
(26:41):
that I cared that I somehowthought is like, and you hear
this all the time with clients,like my duty or my, the thing I
need to do, or the expectation Iput on myself is I need to be
this far in my business in fiveyears.
Nobody told you that.
And that that's just an internalthing and normalizing all of it.
And her whole thing is for the,that last bucket of things, that
is the expectations that nobodyever said to you that you put on
(27:05):
yourself.
You want to get rid of most ofthose.
Because those ones weigh youdown.
She used a great example.
It's a great analogy.
It's like, Hey, when yourrelative comes into town, you
go, Hey, can I, I'm going tocome pick you up at the airport.
Did they ever ask you to pickthem up at the airport?
Did they expect you to pick themup at the airport?
Maybe you want to, and it's anoffer, but how many things have
you done in your life?
(27:25):
And I know for me, where Ibelieved it was a thing I had to
do because it was an expectationof how we're raised, what we see
the world telling us about how astraight man should be or a gay
man should be, or just how a manshould be.
All these things are the ways weshould be that ends up like
doing a bunch of shit from myexperience.
It sounds like for you is that Idon't want to fucking do.
Thomas Renner (27:48):
Yeah.
It sounds
Jason Frazell (27:49):
like you've had a similar experience.
Thomas Renner (27:51):
There's an easy answer that's hard to do.
Totally.
And this is what I coach peopleon, is be your own best friend.
So easy.
No problem.
When you get to know yourself,even in the uncertainty of it
all, you can ask yourself thosequestions.
(28:11):
Do I want to go pick them up atthe airport?
Yeah.
And often, Jason, the answerwill still be yes.
Totally.
It's coming from a place of, Iwant to do that.
Not do they expect me to do itor I expect myself to do it or
the world has expected me totake care of my family in such a
way to go and do it when you getto know yourself and what's
(28:32):
important to you and why it'simportant you get to say okay
the the most important questionI have found in my life is to
answer what for in any situationwhat for yeah I'm going to
dinner on Friday night what foroh I want to commune with my
friends cool that's awesomeamazing I'm gonna I don't know,
go to bed at 9pm, what for?
(28:53):
Because sleep is important tome, right?
Jason Frazell (28:55):
Yeah.
Thomas Renner (28:56):
But we don't often ask ourselves the
questions of who are we andreally identify who we want to
be, who we want to continue tobe, or who we want to even let
go of, of who we once were.
Oof.
To then, even, I mean, we needto go there first, before we
talk about expectations.
Totally.
Because how can you see theexpectations if you don't know
(29:17):
who you are?
No, absolutely.
And to circle back to my past,like, I didn't know who I was
for 32 years because everybodytold me who I was supposed to
be.
Jason Frazell (29:28):
Who were you told you were supposed to be?
Now I'm
Thomas Renner (29:30):
choosing into who I want to be.
Yeah.
Who?
So, oh, it's like you're afitness.
Yeah.
Who are you told you're a fat,you are an actor.
You are gay.
Like, I mean, I had peopletelling me that I was gay before
I was gay.
Right?
Jason Frazell (29:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thomas Renner (29:44):
So like everyone was telling me I was all of
these things and I was like,cool.
This is great.
Easy.
But yeah.
Mm-Hmm.
I didn't realize I could choosethose things.
Jason Frazell (29:56):
Yeah.
So you'd mentioned a few times,Oh, sorry, Thomas, go ahead.
Thomas Renner (30:03):
Yeah, that's, that's a, that's, that's go.
You'd mentioned here
Jason Frazell (30:09):
your journey of self discovery.
What are we going to wrap up fortoday?
And like, what have you learnedabout yourself that has been,
that has sparked this change inyou?
Like, what are the specificthings?
It can be elevated, spiritual,it doesn't really matter.
I'm just curious, what have youlearned about yourself?
Thomas Renner (30:30):
That's such a loaded question.
I've never been asked in thatway.
So please forgive if there'slike some silence in how I want
to share what this is.
I've learned that going slow isthe key to living a fulfilled
life.
I've learned that you don't haveto live alone.
(30:50):
Mm.
I've learned that the answer toall your problems sometimes lies
in your complaints.
Jason Frazell (30:58):
Mm.
Cool.
Good one.
Thomas Renner (31:00):
And I've learned that when I'm my own best
friend, Life isn't as hard as wemake it out to be.
I, I'm going to assert thatthose are
Jason Frazell (31:12):
some hard fought lessons.
Thomas Renner (31:16):
They're hard to learn, but they're easy to
accept.
Jason Frazell (31:19):
Yeah.
What I mean by that is, If wewere going to talk about the way
you got there, those are, thoseare, those are through trials
and tribulations and reallyhaving to work through those
things, those, those, like,it's, it's kind of like, Oh, be
your best friend, easy to say,harder to do everything I heard
you say, and I guess I'm justspeaking from my own experience,
I have a, I don't have asimilar, like, similar journey
(31:42):
in terms of where I've landed onand who I am, similar, those
lessons for me were very hardfought, I actually fought it
myself without knowing about it.
Cause it's a lot, in some waysit's harder when you're in the
process to actually, well, howmuch, for me, I'll share my
experience, for me, it's a lotharder for me to trust my own
(32:03):
decision making than to just askeverybody else, cause I, cause
then I get to be and have to beresponsible for my decisions.
I suppose.
Well, I asked, I asked these 20other people who I think know
more than I do.
And they told me that this isthe thing to do and it didn't
work out for me.
That's that's their fault.
Not my fault.
Like I get to.
(32:23):
Easier
Thomas Renner (32:23):
to blame other people than yourself.
Yeah.
Jason Frazell (32:26):
Yeah.
So yeah, I get to shuckresponsibility.
What's the, I think I want towrap here today.
And you mentioned you are ayogi.
You've done a lot of, you do alot of like spiritual work and
just very connected to all thatpart of you.
Curious.
The, being your own best friend,what kind of practices would you
suggest for folks to try orsomething that works for you
(32:47):
when you find yourself not inthat mode?
Because I'm sure you do.
Yeah.
Because like you said, you'rehuman.
Thomas Renner (32:55):
There's one practice that has a lot of
opportunities.
And so I'm going to say onething, but there's a lot
underneath it, is journaling.
There's so many ways to journal.
I think that we all think wehave to sit down for an hour a
day and write something down.
And there's so many ways thatyou can journal.
Like, journaling doesn't existas just a writing tool.
(33:16):
You can go for a walk byyourself with no technology,
right?
You could write one sentenceevery morning, right?
It doesn't have to be a longparagraph.
There's this book called TheArtist's Way, and I say it.
freaking finished it because Iget so stuck on what they talk
about the writing pages.
I'm like, I can't do this.
But having some self expressiontool, whether it's maybe
(33:38):
painting or my encouragement isyou don't have to do it by
yourself necessarily.
You can do it in a communal waywith other people, but having a
moment where you truly get tosay, Let me just write some
things down and let my thoughtsrun.
We're so afraid of our ownthoughts, Jason.
We're so afraid of them.
And guess what?
They're just thoughts.
Jason Frazell (33:57):
They're just thoughts.
Thomas Renner (33:59):
They're just thoughts.
But we're so afraid of them thatwe're going to discover
something that we don't want tosee.
And I'm like, when we discoverthings that we don't want to
see, we can then do somethingabout them.
But if we're unwilling todiscover them, they're just
going to continue being ouroperating system.
One of my Sebastian Little isone of the most brilliant people
that I, that I know on theplanet.
And he talks about like you haveyour own iOS system and like
(34:22):
updating it.
Like you can't update your owniOS system if you don't let some
things go.
Totally.
Jason Frazell (34:29):
Yeah.
And that's where
Thomas Renner (34:30):
journaling is the practice because every time I,
I've never left a journal entryfeeling worse.
I've always left feeling, Oh, orbetter, full of joy, compassion,
not saying it's not depressingbecause I do write about some
things and I'm like, I've beenholding onto that for a while,
(34:50):
but I've never left with like, Iwish I hadn't had done that.
Jason Frazell (34:54):
Yeah.
It's to me, this is like workingout, taking apart, taking away
the, I actually hurt myselfworking out, but most people,
I'm sure there's times you'relike, Oh, I could really do
without journaling today.
I'm just not feeling it.
But when you're done.
It's always just remindingyourself, you know, we, we would
call that your survivalmechanism of like avoidance or
(35:15):
procrastination, whatever youwant to call that, where your
brain's like, well, we know thisis going to be good for you, but
it's also a little bit scarierthan not doing it.
So from fear, we're not going todo the thing.
I think we all have our versionof.
Journaling.
It's funny you bring upjournaling.
I don't journal and I know Ishould.
And I just, so maybe I can askyou to stand for me to create a
practice.
I'm going to start with like afive minute journal where I
(35:35):
transcribe or maybe use the appon my phone because I just hate
writing period, which is why I'ma podcasting coach.
There's an app called
Thomas Renner (35:41):
Otter.
Have you heard of Otter?
Jason Frazell (35:43):
I have Otter.
Yeah, I have Otter.
Thomas Renner (35:44):
Yeah.
Just open it up, go for a walk,start talking.
I mean, you talk a lot.
Jason Frazell (35:48):
Yeah, totally.
Well, we'll we'll put it, well,thank you Thomas.
We'll put your Otter affiliatelink in the show notes.
Let's, let's drive someadditional revenue for this
episode.
Sponsored by Otter AItranscription service.
Yeah, I have, I have Otter.
Thomas, last question I have foryou.
I have two more questions foryou.
First one is how can peopleconnect with you?
And we'll put all this in theshow notes as well.
Thomas Renner (36:10):
Yeah.
First thing, of course, you'regoing to visit my website.
It's the, Regie coaching.
So my energy is what people areoften drawn to.
So my last name and my last nameis Renner, so I just combine a
rener energy coaching.com.
Makes sense.
You also find me at RegieCoaching on Instagram.
And I did have a podcast aswell.
I've put a pause on it and we'rejust taking a hiatus.
So if you do want to find me onSpotify or Apple Music for my
(36:33):
podcast, it's called The Joy inLiving.
You can find that there.
So those are the three placesyou can find me.
Jason Frazell (36:40):
Cool.
We'll put all those in the.
Show notes.
Last question I have for you isif you got to have I'm just
gonna 18 year old Thomas here onthe podcast with us.
What would
Thomas Renner (36:51):
you want him to know?
Go big and go slow.
Go big and go slow.
Go big and go slow.
Jason Frazell (36:59):
Are you are you an impatient person by like a
default setting?
Are you a pretty fast mover?
Thomas Renner (37:06):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, me too.
I tend, my thoughts run fasterthan my mouth, which causes
people to be like, wait, whatdid you say?
Or my, I will say like onesentence and my partner's like,
how the hell did you get there?
Like, where, where did that comefrom?
And I'm like, well, what youdidn't hear me think were, was
this, this, this, and this, andthis is what actually came out
of my mouth.
And he's like, okay, I get that,but good God, like, let me in on
(37:29):
some of the more stuffbeforehand.
It doesn't sound so random.
Jason Frazell (37:32):
Yeah, man, I'm, I'm just picturing you quick,
quick mind, tons of energy.
Could you design a better spininstructor?
No, that's why I was so good.
Right.
You're like, cause you'reprobably, because if you enjoy
it or you could probably alsodig in and get the energy, even
(37:52):
if you didn't feel it.
Right.
Like you can just like show upand do a thousand percent.
But
Thomas Renner (37:57):
this is where my choosing comes into, I'm
choosing.
Into public speaking, I'mchoosing into being on stages
and talking and really beingwith people and supporting
people and helping people injust a different way.
I was doing it in cycling andnow I'm doing it in coaching.
I let go of cycling.
Now I can move in and have moreenergy to do the bigger things.
Talking in front of people,having live retreats, having
(38:20):
live events.
That gives me the same fuel inthe way that I actually want to
be presenting in the world.
Jason Frazell (38:27):
Yeah.
And probably a little morethoughtful than you're doing a
great job.
You're in the leaderboard.
Da da da.
And like, and I love spinningspinning's great, but gives you
a little chance to connect on adeeper level.
Then you're doing a great job.
Keep up the RP.
100%.
Thomas, I'm so glad we got achance to make this happen.
So glad we got a chance to meetother than text messaging.
(38:47):
Thank you so much for your time,for your grace, for your
vulnerability today.
We'll have you back on heresometime in the next year or so
to see what you're up to andcontinue the conversation.
As you can, everybody listening,you could probably tell Thomas
has a tremendous amount ofwisdom around the master of many
things, I would say.
So I'm going to give you mylittle, my little spin shout
out.
Thank you very much, my friend.
(39:08):
So good to have you on.
Thomas Renner (39:09):
No, thank you, Jason.
Thanks for all that you're doingfor the world and for humanity
and for who you're showing up aslike meeting you in person was
one of the greatest joys I couldhave in this year.
Jason Frazell (39:20):
Thanks, Thomas.
Appreciate it.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Talking to Cool
People with Jason Frizzell.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please tell your friends, follow
us on Instagram and Facebook,and give us a shout out, or take
a moment to leave a review oniTunes.
If something from today'sepisode piqued your interest and
you'd like to connect, email usat podcast at jasonfrizzell.
(39:43):
com.
We love hearing from ourlisteners because you're cool
people too.
Hey everybody, it is my absolute delight to
welcome onto the podcast today,Thomas Renner.
Thomas and I had never met,Well, we did through a text
message, which was like a weirdconfluence of events about three
years ago in a coachingenvironment we were in.
And then I actually got a chanceto spend Thomas in person in
(00:31):
March of 2024.
We went to a men's retreattogether.
And if you've been listening tothe show, I've talked a little
bit about my experience therewith Elena Armijo and some of
the other folks I've had onrecently, Thomas and I shared a
bunk room.
We shared, we shared, shared abunk room.
We shared some emotions.
We shared some good food.
And I knew when I met Thomas,like this is, this is one of the
people I really want to getconnected with and also have you
(00:52):
share with my audience and withour audience, what you're up to.
Thomas, welcome.
Good morning to you.
Where are you coming into usfrom today?
Thomas Renner (00:59):
Good morning, Jason.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Pleasure to always be in yourpresence.
So I'm coming to you fromDallas, Texas.
Jason Frazell (01:06):
So this is why I have Thomas on.
He's just an immediateflatterer.
It's he's so sweet.
I love it.
So Tom, I have
Thomas Renner (01:11):
ulterior motives at all times, Jason.
Well, yeah,
Jason Frazell (01:13):
of course.
Yeah, me too, me too.
Yeah.
We're, we're just, we're justgoing to improv with each other
in our, in our lowest self thewhole time, which is ironic
because Thomas does a number ofthings, he just wrapped up a
really significant part.
Of his life.
And we'll talk just a little bitabout that.
And what Thomas does now is heis a life and leadership coach.
He went through the same coachtraining program that I went
through.
We weren't in the cohorttogether, but same, same
(01:35):
company.
He's also a Yogi and he is acommunity builder.
He, one of the reasons I thinkThomas, you and I immediately
have, we both love people.
And not everybody loves people.
There are a lot of people whodon't like people.
I happen to be a person whoreally loves people.
And when I met you, I'm like, Ithink Thomas loves people too.
So you're a community builder.
So before we kick off here andlike, you know, get further into
(01:56):
what you're up to now, whatwould you like us to know about
you to kick this off?
Thomas Renner (02:01):
Oh gosh, it's always an interesting question
because it makes me think oflike, what's my elevator pitch
to like sell myself?
And that's absolutely like, notthe lane that I would want to go
in.
Neither do I want you to do thateither.
Not selling myself at all.
I actually just did a, a smalllike journal entry on like, what
are three fun things that I wantto share as I meet new people
(02:22):
that was sort of describe mewithout describing me.
My favorite place to grow upgoing to was SeaWorld.
I used to cry at the last Shamushow every night.
It was the nighttime show.
Jason Frazell (02:35):
Yep.
Thomas Renner (02:36):
I collected Beanie Babies for years.
It's the worst investment I'veever made.
I was gonna say, and now you're
Jason Frazell (02:41):
sitting on And now you're like, and now you're
recording this from your yacht.
I mean, obviously that turnedout well.
From
Thomas Renner (02:47):
my walk up apartment.
I had over 250 of them and overthe years, like we've dispersed
them with family and sold someof them.
And my dad has most of them now.
Jason Frazell (02:57):
Yeah.
Thomas Renner (02:58):
And.
Yeah, you know, I'm reluctant toagree with you for some reason
this morning about lovingpeople, but I do love people.
I love what people can do andwhat people can be, and I love
helping them do what they wantto do.
Like, that's something that'simportant for people to know.
Jason Frazell (03:15):
Yeah.
So let's, let's briefly coveroff on, and you were just
telling me this, what youliterally just retired from
yesterday.
It just happens to be acoincidence.
We don't, I don't, I don't knowthat we timed this on purpose.
And then we're going to take alittle bit, step back on maybe
how you mentioned yourchildhood.
So Thomas, just so everybodyknow, what have you been doing?
What is one of the things you'vebeen doing for the last 13 years
that is no longer in your incomestream?
Thomas Renner (03:39):
Yeah, to give a little like circling back.
I have been told for a long timewhat I should do and what I
would be good at and The joy inthat was I was pretty darn good
a lot of things Yeah, I sort ofcoined this this phrase for
(04:00):
myself that it's it's verycommon to It's just like that
I'm a jack of all trades and amaster of none.
Jason Frazell (04:07):
Yeah,
Thomas Renner (04:08):
and I used to really wear it like a badge of
dishonor.
I was like, I feel like I'm justmediocre at a, oh, can I cuss?
Sorry.
Of course you can cuss.
I was like mediocre at a fuckton of things.
Yeah, I'm not great at one thingand what has sort of grown from
that was Like my entire careeras an actor, my career is in
(04:30):
fitness, my career as a coach,but none of them I really had
chosen until now, which is beinga coach.
So I forget what your questionwas.
Jason Frazell (04:39):
Oh, just what, what's, what's the thing just
share with us.
Cause I mentioned it.
What's the thing you literallyjust retired from yesterday.
Thomas Renner (04:45):
Yeah.
So like all that to be said,like cycling is something that
was a big part of my life in thefitness arena for a very, very
long time, 13 years andcounting.
It feels like.
And I taught my last cyclingclass last night.
I say that I'm going intocycling retirement.
You know, you never know.
You can always come out ofretirement and you can make new
decisions.
(05:06):
Of course.
But, I really came to termswith, it was an era, it was a
time in my life that I reallychose into the joy that it
brought, the success that itgave me.
And then I realized that itwasn't bringing me joy anymore.
And that people that were in myclasses deserved to have someone
(05:30):
that wanted to constantly bethere.
And I wanted to be there withthem just doing other things.
I was like, let's go have amargarita instead.
I just wanted to do otherthings.
So yeah, I, I retired fromcycling last night and you know,
it comes with a lot of joy, alot of grief and a lot of,
Excitement for what's next.
(05:51):
And then what's next is kind ofwhat I'm already doing.
Just doing more of it.
Jason Frazell (05:54):
Yeah.
But, what, well, what did youride out into the sunset on?
What was the song?
That you wrapped up your lastclass with.
Thomas Renner (06:02):
Fashion of His Love by Lady Gaga.
Jason Frazell (06:06):
Nice, there it was.
That was so cool.
Do you even know
Thomas Renner (06:08):
that song?
Jason Frazell (06:09):
I do.
Yeah, my wife is a My wife usedto be a Lady Gaga fan, now she's
just a straight Swiftie, butLady Gaga was her person for a
long time.
Thomas Renner (06:16):
So I actually played the first playlist I ever
created 13 years ago for my lastclass.
Jason Frazell (06:22):
Wow! That's so cool.
And so that would have been onher first album.
It really was.
It really was.
Yeah, amazing.
Thomas Renner (06:29):
Fashion of Her is Love, I think was on the second
one.
Jason Frazell (06:32):
Okay, yeah.
But I'm terrible at that, so Icould be wrong.
And I could be wrong too.
So let's talk a little bit aboutyour background, like how you
were raised, a little bit ofwhat's led you into acting, to
fitness, to yogi, and then let'stalk about your journey into
coaching and what you're up tonow.
Thomas Renner (06:49):
Yeah, what's the one thing that you want to know
about my childhood?
I'm curious if there's somethingthat's burning on your mind.
Jason Frazell (06:54):
Yeah, well if I, and I know that we've talked
about, we have a mutual trusthere, you had mentioned
something at the retreat, and werespect the confidentiality
there, and I checked with you,about something about your
childhood that created a hugeimpact for you, and created a
lot of what you had said, youridentity, Especially as an, as a
young adult.
So I think what I'm, I think thequestion I just want to straight
(07:14):
up ask is, and you had sharedwith, with me and with us, and
I'll, I'll share it here.
Cause we've, I've got yourpermission is you said that you
knew very early on that you weregay at a, at a young age, and
that's not always the experiencefor folks.
And then you had mentionedsomething about how that
drastically impacted a lot ofhow you showed up in the world
for a long time.
Like you said, expectations,what you should be doing, et
(07:35):
cetera.
So I'd love to hear a little bitabout how that went for you.
Thomas Renner (07:39):
Yeah, I knew I was gay early on, but I didn't
know how to name it.
So what you might not know is Idid grow up very religious.
I grew up in a Methodist churchwith which the Methodist church
has had a few shifts and changesover the years.
But when I was there, they wererelatively gay accepting that I
(07:59):
knew of, but we never used theword gay, like gay was never a
term that was used to identify.
It was always used as aderogatory term.
And even then, I didn't knowwhat it meant.
I just knew that I liked men.
So cut to me you know, sittingon the living room carpet at 1am
when my parents are asleepwatching Showtime, but it's
(08:19):
static and in snow screenbecause we didn't own the
channel watching.
realizing, Oh, this is me.
Like this is, I like this.
I like, I like men.
What does that mean?
So I didn't know.
So fast forward, like I knew Iwas different.
I was in the theater.
Everyone kind of knew I wasdifferent.
(08:40):
No one really talked about it inhigh school.
I wasn't the cool kid.
I was incredibly overweight.
So I just found my community intheater and like in theater,
it's an incredibly acceptingcommunity.
So I didn't ever feel like I wasostracized and ever tried to try
to be anything that I wasn't.
Then I went to college and Ilook back on this as like
(09:01):
slight, identity trauma, whichit wasn't in the moment.
But like, I look back andreflect and be like, I could
have processed that differently.
But I finally found out and knewthat I was gay, I named it, I
had an experience that was like,this is real.
So I ran home to the apartmentcomplex I was living in, I ran
into a bunch of my friends thatwere in the apartment.
(09:23):
And I just really ran in andsaid, I'm gay.
And they were like, we know.
And then I ran out.
Jason Frazell (09:30):
Their response was actually just, We know.
That was good.
That's, it was just like, Weknow.
Thomas Renner (09:35):
Literally, they were watching a movie, and they
didn't even like, think twice.
They're like, We know.
And then I just walked out, andI was like, What the fuck?
Like, I just had this big like,Moment.
And they were like, We know.
And when I say trauma, it waslike, I felt like I wasn't
validated even though I wasvalidating myself and like
understanding who I was
Jason Frazell (09:54):
sure
Thomas Renner (09:55):
all that to be said Kind of what boiled up for
me in the retreat Which is whereI think your listeners will sort
of come back full circle asyou've talked about it before I
have really leaned into beinggay as the only part of my
identity Which then created RiffRiffs in like my relationship
with straight men, for instance,I find, I find slash find or
(10:19):
found slash find it hard tosometimes connect with straight
men because I had sort ofidentified with the sexuality or
the sexual part of being gay,not what does it mean to be
queer?
Those are two interestinglydifferent questions for me.
It's like, what does it mean tobe gay?
What does it mean to be queer?
And how do those identities comeinto play?
(10:40):
So when I went on the retreat,it was really nice.
to be in community with men whoidentified as straight and some
just some queer men as well andbe intimate with them in a non
sexual platonic way.
I didn't know how to do thatbecause my first instinct is
always, and I learned this toeven circle back to one of my
(11:02):
longest term relationships, Ilearned that For some reason
when I meet someone the firstquestion I often would ask
myself is do I want to sleepwith them?
That
Jason Frazell (11:12):
was just an
Thomas Renner (11:14):
instinctual question based on a previous
relationship that I had had Andso to be in a room of men that
wasn't my first instinct.
Don't get me wrong like I hadthose thoughts, but they weren't
the first presenting ones.
And by the end of the retreat, Ihad one of the leaders reflected
me.
It's like, you are not just agay man.
Yeah.
And that sort of hit me.
(11:34):
Because I knew that, but Iwasn't acting like it.
Jason Frazell (11:39):
Tommy, you said something, first of all, thank
you for sharing all that andbeing vulnerable about that.
You said something that reallystruck me.
We all have a version of yourimmediate what I call that a
filter of like what I sleep withthem We all have a version of
that and we heard from someother folks who were there some
folks Said am I safe with thisperson?
(12:00):
Like it's an immediate like anInstinction thing for me.
I think it's can I easilyconnect and have fun with this
person is like the immediatefilter I go to with other men,
especially I think for women Iprobably at least in the past
had similar to what came up foryou You And and I, I just,
that's, that really was profoundand hit me on like, so my, my
(12:21):
encouragement for the audiencelistening is like, what's your
immediate thing that you filterfor?
And what you just said, Thomasis without, you know, we don't
need to share exactly how oldyou are, but it's not like
you're a 22 and you have neverreally learned how to do this.
And finally you're starting towork on this.
So I do want to ask you aquestion as a straight man who
(12:42):
doesn't have the experience youhave is what Should straight men
who care and want to createthose places that have somebody
who identifies as queer feelcomfortable?
Like, what would you need?
Or what was it that made adifference for you?
And I think, and we, we heardthis from a couple other folks
too that were there thatidentified as queers.
(13:02):
What is it that makes thedifference?
Because I would imagine it'sreally hard.
Thomas Renner (13:07):
I think it's interesting.
You're going to laugh at myanswer because of the antithesis
of what I just shared.
I think it's that they don'tfilter with gay men.
All of them want to sleep withme.
Because we're not coming on toall straight men, like we're
not, like we just, that's notthe case.
Right.
That was the case for me.
(13:28):
Right.
But I'm not the deciding factorfor the queer community.
Right.
So I know that might sound like,wait a second, this is not
making any sense.
This is not connecting, but Inever felt like threatened by
any of the men that were there,that they would Assume that all
gay men want to sleep with mebecause that leads sometimes, I
(13:52):
don't have to, I won't say forall that leads to sometimes the
already barrier to connection.
Totally.
Well, it's almost like all thatwe're built to do is have sex
with each other or wants to dothat.
Then there are so many otherversions of connection that we
really can focus on.
And that's why your filter is sogreat.
(14:13):
Do I want to have fun andconnect with this person?
What a great connection filter.
Jason Frazell (14:20):
Sometimes, but I will say the downside for me in
this Thomas is that if myintuition is wrong or I'm having
a bad day or like my guard is upmore for whatever reason, I'm
sure I miss out on opportunitiesfor amazing relationships with
other men, but then I'm talkingabout other men specifically,
and I might miss because foryou, same thing, like, oh, like,
(14:42):
do I want to sleep with them?
Oh, I don't.
So then move on, move on.
And I don't know if that's howit showed up and move on.
But I'm just really thinkingabout the reflection of for
myself on how that filter isalso limiting because I don't
actually know.
It's just an intuition or aninstinctual thing, but that
isn't always correct.
Thomas Renner (14:58):
Yeah, but we're also human, right?
So we're going to make those,like, cognitive errors.
But what I wanted to reallyshare as the learning from the
weekend in relation to thisconversation is, gang and
straight men aren't thatdifferent.
No.
I held them as wildly different.
(15:19):
Which caused me to put upbarriers to build relationships
with straight men.
Now there's a few differentrelationships in my past that
have led me to feel this way.
And I've, I've reflected backand I've done the work and I'm,
I'm looking even still on whatit is.
But that's why it was sopowerful for me to be like, Hey,
we're not that different.
Okay.
How would I connect with them?
(15:41):
Cause I don't connect on thestereotypical things often.
Like I can spout out differentfacts around sports that make me
sound really smart.
But at the end of the day, Iwould literally rather do
anything else in the world thanwatch a football game.
I find that to be nails on achalkboard.
It is incredibly boring.
That's my opinion.
Doesn't mean it has to be foreverybody.
(16:01):
And again, that's alsostereotypical straight, like if
I was to stereotype the straightman.
Totally.
I don't want to go to Hooters.
Those are sort of, I mean, I saythis in jest, but also factual,
right?
Like I don't want like thatthere's a restaurant named Twin
Peaks.
I'm like, Lord have mercy.
Now we have our own things likethat in the gay community too.
(16:22):
So I'm not, I'm not dogging.
I'm not yucking anybody's yumhere.
I'm just sharing with like, Ihave held gay men and straight
men so differently that causedme to not connect with them and
what that retreat really helpedme do from even looking at my
careers until this point andrelationships, it's allowed me
to really shift and say, okay, Ican have the thought of, do I
(16:45):
want to sleep with them and do Iwant to have fun and connect and
what's my value to them andwhat's their value to me?
What's another question I canask?
Like there's an, and to it all,not a one question.
Answers everything.
Jason Frazell (17:02):
I love it.
You're talking to an improverover here.
And I think you are as well anactor You've probably done some
improv training.
So yeah, like what's next?
I as we're talking as I I justhad this image of you Tom on
your own And I had an image ofyou it on it like your own
television show and literallythe setup is that you get asked
out On this date by your perfectguy He's like and I'm gonna take
(17:24):
you to Hooters and we're gonnawatch the football game at one
o'clock It's like the worstFucking nightmare, first date
you could ever go on.
Thomas Renner (17:32):
I would literally say, no thanks.
Jason Frazell (17:34):
You're like, I don't, my filter for I wanna be
with you was high, it's at zeronow.
It's just, you're dead to me.
Like, we could be friends.
Like, is this
Thomas Renner (17:42):
the price of admission to sleep with you
tonight?
Because then maybe.
But, if this is the price ofadmission for like the rest of
my life, we're out.
Jason Frazell (17:52):
That, I see this for you.
This is good.
The Talking to Cool Peoplepodcast is brought to you by
Jason Frizzell Coaching.
Jason works with amazing peoplewho are looking to find and
develop their passion andpurpose and create their journey
to wherever it is they want togo.
Check us out at jasonfrizzell.
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(18:14):
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And now back to some moreamazing conversation on talking
to cool people.
(18:35):
So.
Now, based on everything you'veshared so far, you mentioned
something that I really wouldlike to hone in on and it was
career choices based on what youjust said.
So let's, if you don't mindsharing, like how has what
you've outlined for us so farinfluenced us?
what you've done and what you'redoing now.
Thomas Renner (18:57):
Yeah.
I mean, when you think about myelevator pitch, when I talk to
people about coachingspecifically, like I, again, had
just sort of done everythingthat everyone told me that, Hey,
you'd be really good at this.
You should do it.
And I did it for 32 years.
I did that.
And it was great.
I had a wonderful life.
It was successful, successful.
I'm using air quotes everybodybecause like you are the only
(19:18):
person that gets to define whatthat is.
But at 32, I lost my jobsuddenly.
The company that I'd beenworking for had gone under for a
variety of reasons.
And what were you doing?
What were you
Jason Frazell (19:30):
doing at the time?
What, what kind of role?
Thomas Renner (19:32):
Full time cycling instructor.
I was teaching for a company.
I was traveling across the U S Iwas hiring new instructors,
scouting new instructors,training new instructors.
And I was the lead instructorfor our region here in Dallas.
And I really loved it.
Like I had, we truly built acommunity.
I loved the people that I workedwith.
I love the people that werementoring me.
(19:54):
And so in that, Happened it waspretty traumatic.
I even back looking now.
I'm like that moment in time.
I Didn't even fully recognizethe the traumatic experience
that it was
Jason Frazell (20:07):
yeah,
Thomas Renner (20:08):
but what happened was the summer before it all
went down.
So this is 2019.
This is pre pandemic One of mywriters actually gave me a book.
Her name is Brooke Castillo.
She's a master coach.
She has a coaching school calledthe life coach school.
She's got a podcast too.
So it's run a great podcast.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah, I know.
I know who she is.
Oh, you know her.
Jason Frazell (20:29):
Yeah.
Thomas Renner (20:29):
I know.
I know life.
I know the life coach school.
I don't know.
I
Jason Frazell (20:31):
know the life coach school.
Thomas Renner (20:35):
Yeah, and the book was self coaching 101 and
when I tell you Jason that I amNOT a reader I'm not a reader.
Like I don't really enjoyreading that much And I read
that book sitting by the pool inmy speedo summer 2019 like it
was my job And I'm so glad thatI did because I'd already
(20:57):
started thinking about, Hey,what's the next level of my
coaching?
What's the next level of mylife?
And then when Flywheel closed, Iwas like, I need to make a
bigger change.
So Flywheel closed, cut to me,working for Equinox at the time,
and then the pandemic hits.
You're like, well, WTF, like nowwhat I really do, I had a couple
(21:21):
of friends that had gone throughthe accomplishment coaching, the
coaching program that I wentthrough and they were like, you
should do it.
I'm just fast forwarding a lot.
And June of or July of 2020pandemic, I decided to invest in
the next stage of my life.
I decided it.
Nobody said you should be acoach.
No one said you'd be really goodat this.
(21:43):
I decided, you know what?
I have been helping people for Xamount of years in this way.
Now I want to get paid for it inthis way.
It's not going to be fitness.
It's not going to be on a bike.
And I got to make that decisionbecause I then knew who I was.
I knew I was built to helppeople succeed, create their own
life.
(22:03):
I have a deep seated empathy andcompassion for the human
existence, for people when I'mwith them.
And I've been given a superpowerto do that.
So, why not do it?
Jason Frazell (22:15):
Amazing.
When you decided So that's whereI'm at today.
Amazing, Thomas.
So, so, what was the experiencelike, Were you present at the
time when you chose this foryourself that you were actually
getting to choose something foryourself?
Thomas Renner (22:30):
I don't know if I was fully present to it.
I did realize that nobody helpedme make the decision.
Jason Frazell (22:39):
Mm hmm.
Thomas Renner (22:40):
Which Which I think was the big defining
factor is nobody called me andsaid, we want you to be a coach
here.
Right?
No one said, what's your newcareer?
When are you going to startbeing a coach?
I just said to myself, I'm notan entrepreneur at my core.
I'm not an entrepreneur like atall.
I am the most organized,disorganized human being you
(23:02):
will ever meet.
So it really was like, okay, I'mgoing to, I'm going to do this.
And even looking back, it's beenfive years now, Essentially five
years, four years, I suppose.
Is my business where I thoughtit would be?
No, but I'm building it on myown time on my own journey.
And I'm choosing it.
No one said you got to speedthis up.
(23:24):
You're going too slow.
You got to do this faster.
I am choosing it because of thisis the lifestyle that I want.
This is what's important to me.
These are the kinds ofexperiences I want.
And if I did it any differently,that wouldn't be available to
me.
Yeah.
So I took the learning of thatreally powerfully and I take
(23:45):
that into my business and mylife now.
It's like, okay, I ask myselfquestions like, okay, what am I
doing this for?
Who am I doing this
Jason Frazell (23:52):
for?
Thomas Renner (23:52):
Do I want to do this?
And the most powerful answerthat I often give myself is, I
don't know.
And the more that you say, Idon't know to yourself, you will
get an answer.
Absolutely.
But you'd be willing to say, Idon't know.
It's more comfortable for, or itwas more comfortable for me,
(24:14):
even though I didn't know tokeep doing what everyone said
I'd be good at.
Jason Frazell (24:17):
Sure.
I mean, that makes perfectsense.
Did you find, were you somebodyhistorically who would always,
people would tell you, you'd begood at things.
Were you also somebody who likedto check with a lot of people
on, Hey, I'm thinking aboutdoing this.
Can I get your opinion?
Get your advice, a lot ofexternal, I don't call it
validation.
I think there's a lot of valuein trusted mentors and people
(24:39):
around you, but, but you wantedto get a lot of feedback on
whether your decision was theright decision based on other
people's opinions.
Absolutely.
The
Thomas Renner (24:46):
only, the only other decision, which is
probably why I was always shyingaway from it, that I was like,
I'm going to make this decisionand I'm not going to ask
anybody, was taking out loanswith Sally Mae.
And look where that got me,Jason.
Fucked.
And so that was just a goodanswer to be like, Oh, I can't
trust myself.
Like I need, I need to ask forhelp and they need to tell me
what I'm going to do.
(25:07):
And now I'm like, okay.
Take ownership or responsibilityfor it.
Yeah, that was a really terribledecision.
You can't go back and change it.
But now I know that asking forhelp and asking for support is
something that you choose intonot as the deciding factor, but
as part of it.
It's part of the journey.
It's part of your decisionmaking.
It's not the decision that youmake.
Jason Frazell (25:30):
You said this is a great segue into a
conversation I'm about to havewith my friend Sheila next week
on the podcast.
It's like a timed guest.
And she speaks and talks a lotabout expectations and how
there's four types ofexpectations.
I just heard her talk about thisa couple weeks ago, so I'm going
to share a preview of this andoffer it to you.
I think this will be a goodconversation starter for us.
(25:50):
She said there's four types ofexpectations.
There's expectations we put onourselves.
There's expectations we put onothers.
There's expectations others puton us.
And the fourth one is,expectations we believe that are
on us that nobody ever put onus.
That we have somehow created.
And her whole, and she's acoach, and she's an attorney and
(26:13):
a social worker, and it's areally cool framework for
looking at expectations.
That's
Thomas Renner (26:16):
a dangerous combination.
It is, she's, she's
Jason Frazell (26:18):
She's a, she's kind of a master of all of them
too, which Pretty frightening ina good way.
Yeah, she does a lot of good Butthe idea there is and I've heard
her speak a couple weeks ago Theidea is how easy it is and I'll
just speak for myself to confusewhere those land for me Of like,
Oh, the expectation that nobodyever said that I needed to do or
(26:41):
that I cared that I somehowthought is like, and you hear
this all the time with clients,like my duty or my, the thing I
need to do, or the expectation Iput on myself is I need to be
this far in my business in fiveyears.
Nobody told you that.
And that that's just an internalthing and normalizing all of it.
And her whole thing is for the,that last bucket of things, that
is the expectations that nobodyever said to you that you put on
(27:05):
yourself.
You want to get rid of most ofthose.
Because those ones weigh youdown.
She used a great example.
It's a great analogy.
It's like, Hey, when yourrelative comes into town, you
go, Hey, can I, I'm going tocome pick you up at the airport.
Did they ever ask you to pickthem up at the airport?
Did they expect you to pick themup at the airport?
Maybe you want to, and it's anoffer, but how many things have
you done in your life?
(27:25):
And I know for me, where Ibelieved it was a thing I had to
do because it was an expectationof how we're raised, what we see
the world telling us about how astraight man should be or a gay
man should be, or just how a manshould be.
All these things are the ways weshould be that ends up like
doing a bunch of shit from myexperience.
It sounds like for you is that Idon't want to fucking do.
Thomas Renner (27:48):
Yeah.
It sounds
Jason Frazell (27:49):
like you've had a similar experience.
Thomas Renner (27:51):
There's an easy answer that's hard to do.
Totally.
And this is what I coach peopleon, is be your own best friend.
So easy.
No problem.
When you get to know yourself,even in the uncertainty of it
all, you can ask yourself thosequestions.
(28:11):
Do I want to go pick them up atthe airport?
Yeah.
And often, Jason, the answerwill still be yes.
Totally.
It's coming from a place of, Iwant to do that.
Not do they expect me to do itor I expect myself to do it or
the world has expected me totake care of my family in such a
way to go and do it when you getto know yourself and what's
(28:32):
important to you and why it'simportant you get to say okay
the the most important questionI have found in my life is to
answer what for in any situationwhat for yeah I'm going to
dinner on Friday night what foroh I want to commune with my
friends cool that's awesomeamazing I'm gonna I don't know,
go to bed at 9pm, what for?
(28:53):
Because sleep is important tome, right?
Jason Frazell (28:55):
Yeah.
Thomas Renner (28:56):
But we don't often ask ourselves the
questions of who are we andreally identify who we want to
be, who we want to continue tobe, or who we want to even let
go of, of who we once were.
Oof.
To then, even, I mean, we needto go there first, before we
talk about expectations.
Totally.
Because how can you see theexpectations if you don't know
(29:17):
who you are?
No, absolutely.
And to circle back to my past,like, I didn't know who I was
for 32 years because everybodytold me who I was supposed to
be.
Jason Frazell (29:28):
Who were you told you were supposed to be?
Now I'm
Thomas Renner (29:30):
choosing into who I want to be.
Yeah.
Who?
So, oh, it's like you're afitness.
Yeah.
Who are you told you're a fat,you are an actor.
You are gay.
Like, I mean, I had peopletelling me that I was gay before
I was gay.
Right?
Jason Frazell (29:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thomas Renner (29:44):
So like everyone was telling me I was all of
these things and I was like,cool.
This is great.
Easy.
But yeah.
Mm-Hmm.
I didn't realize I could choosethose things.
Jason Frazell (29:56):
Yeah.
So you'd mentioned a few times,Oh, sorry, Thomas, go ahead.
Thomas Renner (30:03):
Yeah, that's, that's a, that's, that's go.
You'd mentioned here
Jason Frazell (30:09):
your journey of self discovery.
What are we going to wrap up fortoday?
And like, what have you learnedabout yourself that has been,
that has sparked this change inyou?
Like, what are the specificthings?
It can be elevated, spiritual,it doesn't really matter.
I'm just curious, what have youlearned about yourself?
Thomas Renner (30:30):
That's such a loaded question.
I've never been asked in thatway.
So please forgive if there'slike some silence in how I want
to share what this is.
I've learned that going slow isthe key to living a fulfilled
life.
I've learned that you don't haveto live alone.
(30:50):
Mm.
I've learned that the answer toall your problems sometimes lies
in your complaints.
Jason Frazell (30:58):
Mm.
Cool.
Good one.
Thomas Renner (31:00):
And I've learned that when I'm my own best
friend, Life isn't as hard as wemake it out to be.
I, I'm going to assert thatthose are
Jason Frazell (31:12):
some hard fought lessons.
Thomas Renner (31:16):
They're hard to learn, but they're easy to
accept.
Jason Frazell (31:19):
Yeah.
What I mean by that is, If wewere going to talk about the way
you got there, those are, thoseare, those are through trials
and tribulations and reallyhaving to work through those
things, those, those, like,it's, it's kind of like, Oh, be
your best friend, easy to say,harder to do everything I heard
you say, and I guess I'm justspeaking from my own experience,
I have a, I don't have asimilar, like, similar journey
(31:42):
in terms of where I've landed onand who I am, similar, those
lessons for me were very hardfought, I actually fought it
myself without knowing about it.
Cause it's a lot, in some waysit's harder when you're in the
process to actually, well, howmuch, for me, I'll share my
experience, for me, it's a lotharder for me to trust my own
(32:03):
decision making than to just askeverybody else, cause I, cause
then I get to be and have to beresponsible for my decisions.
I suppose.
Well, I asked, I asked these 20other people who I think know
more than I do.
And they told me that this isthe thing to do and it didn't
work out for me.
That's that's their fault.
Not my fault.
Like I get to.
(32:23):
Easier
Thomas Renner (32:23):
to blame other people than yourself.
Yeah.
Jason Frazell (32:26):
Yeah.
So yeah, I get to shuckresponsibility.
What's the, I think I want towrap here today.
And you mentioned you are ayogi.
You've done a lot of, you do alot of like spiritual work and
just very connected to all thatpart of you.
Curious.
The, being your own best friend,what kind of practices would you
suggest for folks to try orsomething that works for you
(32:47):
when you find yourself not inthat mode?
Because I'm sure you do.
Yeah.
Because like you said, you'rehuman.
Thomas Renner (32:55):
There's one practice that has a lot of
opportunities.
And so I'm going to say onething, but there's a lot
underneath it, is journaling.
There's so many ways to journal.
I think that we all think wehave to sit down for an hour a
day and write something down.
And there's so many ways thatyou can journal.
Like, journaling doesn't existas just a writing tool.
(33:16):
You can go for a walk byyourself with no technology,
right?
You could write one sentenceevery morning, right?
It doesn't have to be a longparagraph.
There's this book called TheArtist's Way, and I say it.
freaking finished it because Iget so stuck on what they talk
about the writing pages.
I'm like, I can't do this.
But having some self expressiontool, whether it's maybe
(33:38):
painting or my encouragement isyou don't have to do it by
yourself necessarily.
You can do it in a communal waywith other people, but having a
moment where you truly get tosay, Let me just write some
things down and let my thoughtsrun.
We're so afraid of our ownthoughts, Jason.
We're so afraid of them.
And guess what?
They're just thoughts.
Jason Frazell (33:57):
They're just thoughts.
Thomas Renner (33:59):
They're just thoughts.
But we're so afraid of them thatwe're going to discover
something that we don't want tosee.
And I'm like, when we discoverthings that we don't want to
see, we can then do somethingabout them.
But if we're unwilling todiscover them, they're just
going to continue being ouroperating system.
One of my Sebastian Little isone of the most brilliant people
that I, that I know on theplanet.
And he talks about like you haveyour own iOS system and like
(34:22):
updating it.
Like you can't update your owniOS system if you don't let some
things go.
Totally.
Jason Frazell (34:29):
Yeah.
And that's where
Thomas Renner (34:30):
journaling is the practice because every time I,
I've never left a journal entryfeeling worse.
I've always left feeling, Oh, orbetter, full of joy, compassion,
not saying it's not depressingbecause I do write about some
things and I'm like, I've beenholding onto that for a while,
(34:50):
but I've never left with like, Iwish I hadn't had done that.
Jason Frazell (34:54):
Yeah.
It's to me, this is like workingout, taking apart, taking away
the, I actually hurt myselfworking out, but most people,
I'm sure there's times you'relike, Oh, I could really do
without journaling today.
I'm just not feeling it.
But when you're done.
It's always just remindingyourself, you know, we, we would
call that your survivalmechanism of like avoidance or
(35:15):
procrastination, whatever youwant to call that, where your
brain's like, well, we know thisis going to be good for you, but
it's also a little bit scarierthan not doing it.
So from fear, we're not going todo the thing.
I think we all have our versionof.
Journaling.
It's funny you bring upjournaling.
I don't journal and I know Ishould.
And I just, so maybe I can askyou to stand for me to create a
practice.
I'm going to start with like afive minute journal where I
(35:35):
transcribe or maybe use the appon my phone because I just hate
writing period, which is why I'ma podcasting coach.
There's an app called
Thomas Renner (35:41):
Otter.
Have you heard of Otter?
Jason Frazell (35:43):
I have Otter.
Yeah, I have Otter.
Thomas Renner (35:44):
Yeah.
Just open it up, go for a walk,start talking.
I mean, you talk a lot.
Jason Frazell (35:48):
Yeah, totally.
Well, we'll we'll put it, well,thank you Thomas.
We'll put your Otter affiliatelink in the show notes.
Let's, let's drive someadditional revenue for this
episode.
Sponsored by Otter AItranscription service.
Yeah, I have, I have Otter.
Thomas, last question I have foryou.
I have two more questions foryou.
First one is how can peopleconnect with you?
And we'll put all this in theshow notes as well.
Thomas Renner (36:10):
Yeah.
First thing, of course, you'regoing to visit my website.
It's the, Regie coaching.
So my energy is what people areoften drawn to.
So my last name and my last nameis Renner, so I just combine a
rener energy coaching.com.
Makes sense.
You also find me at RegieCoaching on Instagram.
And I did have a podcast aswell.
I've put a pause on it and we'rejust taking a hiatus.
So if you do want to find me onSpotify or Apple Music for my
(36:33):
podcast, it's called The Joy inLiving.
You can find that there.
So those are the three placesyou can find me.
Jason Frazell (36:40):
Cool.
We'll put all those in the.
Show notes.
Last question I have for you isif you got to have I'm just
gonna 18 year old Thomas here onthe podcast with us.
What would
Thomas Renner (36:51):
you want him to know?
Go big and go slow.
Go big and go slow.
Go big and go slow.
Jason Frazell (36:59):
Are you are you an impatient person by like a
default setting?
Are you a pretty fast mover?
Thomas Renner (37:06):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, me too.
I tend, my thoughts run fasterthan my mouth, which causes
people to be like, wait, whatdid you say?
Or my, I will say like onesentence and my partner's like,
how the hell did you get there?
Like, where, where did that comefrom?
And I'm like, well, what youdidn't hear me think were, was
this, this, this, and this, andthis is what actually came out
of my mouth.
And he's like, okay, I get that,but good God, like, let me in on
(37:29):
some of the more stuffbeforehand.
It doesn't sound so random.
Jason Frazell (37:32):
Yeah, man, I'm, I'm just picturing you quick,
quick mind, tons of energy.
Could you design a better spininstructor?
No, that's why I was so good.
Right.
You're like, cause you'reprobably, because if you enjoy
it or you could probably alsodig in and get the energy, even
(37:52):
if you didn't feel it.
Right.
Like you can just like show upand do a thousand percent.
But
Thomas Renner (37:57):
this is where my choosing comes into, I'm
choosing.
Into public speaking, I'mchoosing into being on stages
and talking and really beingwith people and supporting
people and helping people injust a different way.
I was doing it in cycling andnow I'm doing it in coaching.
I let go of cycling.
Now I can move in and have moreenergy to do the bigger things.
Talking in front of people,having live retreats, having
(38:20):
live events.
That gives me the same fuel inthe way that I actually want to
be presenting in the world.
Jason Frazell (38:27):
Yeah.
And probably a little morethoughtful than you're doing a
great job.
You're in the leaderboard.
Da da da.
And like, and I love spinningspinning's great, but gives you
a little chance to connect on adeeper level.
Then you're doing a great job.
Keep up the RP.
100%.
Thomas, I'm so glad we got achance to make this happen.
So glad we got a chance to meetother than text messaging.
(38:47):
Thank you so much for your time,for your grace, for your
vulnerability today.
We'll have you back on heresometime in the next year or so
to see what you're up to andcontinue the conversation.
As you can, everybody listening,you could probably tell Thomas
has a tremendous amount ofwisdom around the master of many
things, I would say.
So I'm going to give you mylittle, my little spin shout
out.
Thank you very much, my friend.
(39:08):
So good to have you on.
Thomas Renner (39:09):
No, thank you, Jason.
Thanks for all that you're doingfor the world and for humanity
and for who you're showing up aslike meeting you in person was
one of the greatest joys I couldhave in this year.
Jason Frazell (39:20):
Thanks, Thomas.
Appreciate it.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Talking to Cool
People with Jason Frizzell.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please tell your friends, follow
us on Instagram and Facebook,and give us a shout out, or take
a moment to leave a review oniTunes.
If something from today'sepisode piqued your interest and
you'd like to connect, email usat podcast at jasonfrizzell.
(39:43):
com.
We love hearing from ourlisteners because you're cool
people too.
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