March 5, 2025 • 63 mins
In this Amazing episode we sit with PHD Robert Coppes who's an amazing author bringing to light some of the most compelling quotes from NDE survivors!
join us as we dive deep into crossing the veil as we discuss the mystery behind life and death
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What's going on everybody? This is AJ Capasso here from Talking with the Source. I'm here with my
beautiful girlfriend Tammy next to me along with my other host Jonathan Keyworth of JK 47 Paranormal
Investigations and Targeting with the JK. Brother, how you been? Good man, yourself? Been hanging in
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brother. You know that's all we can do. That's the only thing I think it feels like that we have left.
Just hanging in. But right, but anyway how are you doing? Doing great. Good, good. That's great. I'm
back. I'm doing alright. So today guys we have an amazing guest today. We're gonna talk about his
book. We're gonna talk about near-death experiences. He's an amazing person. We got to speak him back
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for a little bit and I'm super excited to get this conversation ready and going. His name is
Robert Christopher Copeland. Let me bring him forward. Hey Bob, how are you doing my friend? I'm fine. Thank you for
having me on your show. It's wonderful to be with you. It's an honor, seriously. Nice being here. So I wanted to ask you first to start off with is can you give the viewers a little bit of background about yourself? I know we did put it in the description but I would love to have it here from your mouth. A little bit of background about yourself and what you've done. Yeah, well I started out as a student
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of economics and but during my study I came across the book of Raymond Moody and Raymond Moody is the guy who coined the term near-death experiences in his research and his book really triggered it for me. In his book there is a story of a woman who said and we had her life review and in her life review you get to see everything of your life but also from the other side from the people that you act with but she said
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there's no one judging you, there's no judgment and that particular thing really resonated with me because I was brought up as a Roman Catholic with hell and purgatory and I never liked that story of hell and purgatory and here in this book it said there's no judgment so then I thought well okay the Roman Catholic Church is somewhere wrong with the judgment and I think it's logical that there is no judgment.
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Well that started it all and I did my career in central banking and then and that shows you that even economists can be spiritually oriented and then I started out researching NDEs and that got out of hand so I had a few books that I published and the latest one is with hundreds of quotes from NDEs and that gives a very good
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impression of what an NDE is.
Now I wanted to ask you about what is your favorite quote that you have found out of all your books?
There are a number of favorite quotes that I like
but the one that I really like there's two or so that stick out. One is of a little girl Christina, she was abducted by two men, not all NDEs start with just even cardiac arrest.
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In this case it was an assault and she was, they tried to drown her and she was underwater facing up. She could look through the water and see the sun shine and at the same time she had a view from above and that's something you hear more often and the ears have dual perspective.
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And then from above she saw that her father was rushing towards her to rescue her. But during that episode she had her NDE and she went through a tunnel and at the end of the tunnel there was an elderly guy standing there blocking the entrance and she saw that there was light behind him and she wanted to go there but he prevented that from happening.
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And she said that must have been God, no one else. And then she said, God sent me back again but he said, life is easy, it has only four ingredients.
And then he gave her the ingredients and the ingredients that he gave were love, be loved, just be, and experience life.
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So the first two are a verb, you have to do something for that, so love and be loved, especially the be loved part, not everyone is easy at that.
And the second two, just be and experience life, you can do that by sitting on a chair, but it's nicer to do something, to go out and to love and to be loved. So that's what I thought was one of the best, one of the major quotes there is.
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I absolutely love it, I think that was an amazing one, that was an amazing one to pick, absolutely for sure. That was the three ingredients, I love that. Four ingredients.
That's amazing though, that truly is. I look so forward to reading your book actually, I actually just ordered it the other day when I got my money in for my check and I'm looking forward to checking it out and checking out some of these experiences because
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with my experience, like I was telling you in back, it really opens my mind to keep reading about this and seeing what other people are experiencing, to know that one, that I'm not crazy, that I did experience something when that happened, and also that
it was medically impossible for me to even come back because if I did I should have been brain dead for the amount of time that I was without oxygen. So it's like, it was absolutely wild.
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I mean by the time I was found by the paramedics it was already like at least like six to seven minutes deep without me breathing because my father had found me. So it was, you know, I was very shocked.
I thought when I came back I honestly thought that I had a brain damage, like I had thought, because I started feeling energy in rooms and started being able to feel like if someone say I argued in a room and I walked in, the whole room would feel like I was walking through water,
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like just heavy water and I had to like break it through like a knife, you know, and I would feel like other things in the room with me, whether it be like beings or whatever we would call them energies or whatever, and I would feel those in the room.
I'd be able to tell if they were a male or female presence. It was a weird thing that that happens to me and I have premonitions and stuff now. So I thought something was wrong.
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I kept going to the doctor. So have you ever found in your studies that people have ever had stuff like that after their NDE?
Absolutely. Those are a number of after effects that you mentioned. The after effects that are there is that people change. I mean an NDE is not something that you can just have and then just walk on in your life.
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It is a life changer. It changes your life thoroughly and mainly it makes you less focused on money and power and more focused on relations with other people.
Nature becomes important. A number of people do have mediumistic abilities for being psychic and they know what happens in the near future.
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There's even a woman who noticed that she had dreams and they were so clear with such a very detailed information and then the next day something would happen in the news.
For example, she had seen the flight that landed in the Hudson River. You might remember that.
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There was a film made out of it. She actually saw that happening before it happened and because no one believed her, she started writing herself mails and if you write yourself a mail saying what you have seen, it is time stamped.
If you send a mail, there is a time stamp on it. With that, she could show that she really had seen it before it happened and there were a lot of other cases that she saw before.
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Would you say premonition is something that people would have typically? Maybe you also have other side effects like do you interfere with electricity? That's a very strange one, I think.
Do you have an electric watch? I do actually. I have a watch. I don't have any problems with the watch yet but one thing that I do have a problem being around is microwaves and stuff like that.
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I feel the energy right here in my third eye right here where they would say your third eye chakra is and I can feel it very heavy. It really gets me sick sometimes.
Yeah, so that's one of those. One of the people that I spoke with said that if he would walk under street lamps occasionally, sometimes then they would turn off and then if he walked on that light would turn on again and then the next one would turn off.
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So that's very strange and fear of death is something that changes. I don't know, do you fear death anymore? No. So that's typically, that's almost a 100% hit of people that have had an NDE.
They lose the fear of death because they know there is something else behind that moment of death and that's nice. It's a nice something that happens there.
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And then higher tolerance for people and what they do. That's another thing that happens. Less religious and more spiritual. I don't know if you recognize that?
Yeah, real quick. I just want to throw this out there for anybody that's new watching. When we say NDE that means near death experience. So we just abbreviate it so we don't have to say that all the time as investigators and researchers of the paranormal.
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So I just wanted to throw that out there to anybody new that's watching. Very good of you to say so. That's very important because we are talking about a very strange phenomenon that people have.
They don't always have that when there is a medical critical situation. That's something that people think is always the case. You need to have a cardiac arrest or an accident in order to have a near death experience.
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But that's not the case. There are a lot of cases where people have had a very deep psychological problem, really deep. And then sometimes they have such an experience too.
And some people have it with deep meditation that doesn't happen very often, but it has happened. And there are even stories of people who have had a near death experience just spontaneously.
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But in all these cases, they are a life changer. People do really change afterwards.
I agree. I didn't actually die, but I was in the Iraq war in 2003 and I should have died a number of times. But I heard a voice that helped me through the whole war and survived.
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Wow. That's beautiful. Well, interestingly what you say, you heard a voice that helped you through the war. But what I understand from NDEs and the ears is that they say everyone has help from the other side.
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There's always guardian angels or however you want to call them. They are there. So you're never really alone.
Spirit guides. Yeah.
Yeah, guides. And so you're never really alone. Even if you're in deep shit and sometimes people are. I've been in deep shit too. You're never really alone. You're always helped.
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Absolutely. So you had mentioned that you noticed in your research that people who come out from an NDE, they are less religious and more spiritual.
Do you think that there's any in your research, have you come across anything that shows the variance between a religion, what your belief system was?
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Oh, that's an interesting question. What we do see is people do see in their near death experience, sometimes they see deceased relatives, but sometimes they see deities from their own religion.
So this shows you that there is maybe some kind of cultural aspect in an NDE. So people who are brought up in Western societies with Christianity would typically see Jesus.
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And again, not every NDE is the same. So not everyone sees Jesus who is as an NDE in Western society.
Only a number of people have seen Jesus in their NDE. But there are people in other countries like in Iran, they see Mohammed or they see the Mahdi or another person of their own religion.
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And in India, they see Krishna and the explanation for this may perhaps be that an NDE is very difficult for people to express. It's ineffable.
There are no words to express your NDE. I think, Adi, you can relate to that. It's difficult to explain to other people what you went through.
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So if you see during your NDE, you see things, you try to wrap them in words that we have here. And if you see the light, maybe you will want to see Jesus in it or it presents itself as Jesus.
I don't know. But in this case, there is some kind of cultural element in NDE. But there are a number of things that reoccur everywhere, whether you are in China or in India or Australia, Europe, US, doesn't matter.
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And those are like the unconditional love that's seen.
Yeah. It felt crazy. It felt absolutely wild. I mean, it felt like you were wrapped in a blanket of just absolute love.
Like this love that was like a mother can't give a baby. Like you can't get from a first kiss, not your first love, your first girlfriend.
It was the most amazing love that I ever felt. It was like I actually knew that I was loved.
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Like I didn't have to actually have any flaw in my mind or any doubt or having like a body shame or whatever. I didn't have none of that. I was just like, I felt complete. It was the most weirdest feeling. I can't even explain it.
And it doesn't matter what you have done. It doesn't matter what you did in your life. You are loved anyway. So that applies. I always tell people, just think of someone you really don't like.
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It could be a politician or someone around the corner or your boss or so. But also that person is loved beyond their wildest dreams. It applies to everyone.
So love, the unconditional love, and even some people say it's even the word unconditional love doesn't really cover it. It's more than that.
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So, but that is one of the things that would be seen everywhere or would be experienced everywhere around the world. And the second thing is that there is this great interconnectedness that people feel.
It's like it's also this is inexplainable. People who have had such an experience don't know how to express it, but they go into great lengths into trying to express it.
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And it varies from just saying that there was such a great interconnectedness with everyone to that we are all one, to that we are all part of God or that we are actually God, but together we are this one.
And I just quote what the people told me, but that's something that really struck me. Those two things, unconditional love and the feeling of oneness, oneness with everything, also with the plants and the animals and nature and galaxies far away.
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So, so Bob, did now did you personally experience a near death experience and what would you advise somebody that went through this like in his questioning, you know what they saw.
Let me answer the last question first if if people have had a near death experience, I would advise them to look for information. There's a lot of information. You're not the only one.
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There's like four to 5% of the population has had an NDE. Now, can't do your math and see how many people that is. It's really a lot.
So, and and then try to find information on for instance, ions.org and ions is an organization that I am, I'm board member of this organization.
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It's an American organization. I'm one of the two foreign board members.
I'm the only one coming from Canada and it's called the International Association for Near Death Studies and they have a wonderful website with lots of information with with hundreds of thousands of cases.
You can just go to their archive and find cases and it's interesting to go through some of them.
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So, to your first question, did I have an NDE myself? I always say no, but there was someone at one of the conferences in the US who said to me, I know that you have had an NDE as a child and I said, why do you think that?
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She said, I can see that from your aura and I said, well, I don't know. I can't remember. She said, I am absolutely sure.
And if I go back in my memory, I know that one time in in Iran where we lived, I was roaming the cupboards of my mother's kitchen and I found cinnamon and I put that in my mouth and it went all the way through my lungs.
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And I know that I was struggling for breath. So, if I had an NDE, it must have been at that moment. But I forgot it.
Wow.
Which is common for children. Children sometimes they think that everything is normal, what they experience at that moment.
So, for us as an adult, we know that an NDE is something weird, something strange, not common. But for a child, it might be just something, well, okay, this is another experience. I'll try to remember that.
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Yeah, I feel bad. I shut the garage door on my brother. He was trapped under the garage door.
I don't know if he had an NDE, but he was not happy.
He was not happy.
I bet not.
What I want to say about was that, about what you were talking about before.
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Oh man, what is it? I just had it in my head.
And I forgot because we talked about so much stuff. I have my mind going everywhere.
You mentioned that there's an institute that studies near-death experiences. I noticed a lot. I will have debates with people on this. And they'll say that science doesn't back it or whatever. What do you believe on that?
(22:25):
Sorry, what do you?
Science is like a chemical release in your brain that causes it. So basically it's not like that.
Yes. So what you're talking about is actually that there are ideas that there are perhaps a lack of oxygen that triggers these experiences.
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Yeah, like DMT.
In my brain there are substances that are released that trigger this. Yeah.
Let me tell you that there is in the Netherlands, there was a study done.
And that was published in The Lancet. And The Lancet is a very important medical journal.
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So the study was very highly appraised and was repeated in the US and the UK. And the study was in the sense that there were 10 different hospitals included during 13 years.
And each cardiac arrest patient that was brought in and resuscitated successfully was asked the question, do you remember anything from when you were out?
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Now they had, after 13 years, they had 344 cases and 62 of these cases had recollection. So those were the NDEs.
Now, interestingly, then you have two groups, one group with an NDE and one group without an NDE. But both groups had a dying brain.
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Both groups had a lack of oxygen, yet there were no other differences between these two groups. So the trigger was not found. And it's not a lack of oxygen or the creation of whatever substance in the brain, in a dying brain.
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And there are other, I understand your question, though. It's a very valid question because that would make these stories only like a fairy tale.
And I think there is another kind of proof or very important things going on to show that these experiences are real.
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And those are the veridical observations. And let me explain that to you. Veridical observation is a verifiable out-of-body experience.
So picture this. You have had an NDE or you have an NDE at this moment. You get out of your body because that's typical.
And sometimes you right away you fly through the tunnel or you skip the tunnel and you go to this wonderful other area, this other world.
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But sometimes people stay around their body. They can see what the doctors do. They see, they overhear the conversations. They see what is happening at the crash site.
And then later when they come back again in their body, they can recount what they saw.
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And if it's verified independently, then that's important because then it shows you that someone can really be or his consciousness can be outside the body and does not need the body to survive.
Now there are two kinds of veridical observations. One where you see things going on in the world, in the material world.
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So those are the conversations of the doctors in the operating dome and the tools they use and stuff like that.
There are many of those stories. Really it's a vast number of these stories that have been verified and independently confirmed.
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But the second thing, the second category of these stories is where people get information on the other side.
I'll give you an example. But when they go to the other side, to this otherworldly environment, when they get information and they come back again and the information proved to be correct,
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then that shows you that this otherworldly environment is probably there.
And as an example, there is Fiona Horton's story. She has had an NDE as a consequence of some kind of medical situation.
She was dying. Her family was in the hospital. She leaves her body. She sees these people walking around there.
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She notices very strange clothing on one of them and that constitutes a veridical observation because you can see then that she can observe these things without being in her body because her body was out, unconscious.
And later it proved to be true that this other person had those clothes, was wearing those clothes.
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But the other thing is she went also to the other side and in the other side there she met deceased relatives and one of them presented himself as a baby, as a boy baby.
And this boy baby said to her, you have to remember how I look like and describe me when you see your father again because I'm your brother.
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And she said, I don't have a brother. And he said, yes, you do. But I died before you were born. Just check it.
And then when everything was back to normal again for her, she was back to normal. I forgot to say what word I wanted to say.
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Anyway, I'm talking in a different language. You have to remember that.
But when she asked the father, the father really said, yeah, that's true. How do you know? How do you know this?
Because they never told her. Yeah, I don't I forgot the reason why they never told her. But anyway, they never told her. And so she had that information from the other side.
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It's interesting. There are so many of those stories, too. Yeah. No, they made a movie here in America where a little boy died, had a near death experience.
Then asked his mom, who's this? And it was his sister that she never told him about that died before him. And he was able to describe Jesus and the boy Burpo.
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Or, yeah, I said the name. Yeah, he is really famous case in the U.S. And they made a movie after. Yeah, I know.
But that's a similar kind of case. And this is a book that contains so many of those stories.
The self does not die. And that's that's published by also by the International Association for Near Death Studies, just like my book was published there as well.
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Yeah, that's amazing. Congratulations.
These kind of these kind of stories show you or give you circumstantial evidence that and the ease are real and that they are not just fairy tales.
There is some kind of basis to them. That's why it's a good question that she that you had.
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Now, I'm sorry, guys, I'm going to ask this real quick before I forget it. After having two books and all the research that you've done, what are you studying now about NDS?
What particular part of the NDS are you focusing on? Are you going through certain parts of now?
And these are you just still focusing on more and more cases? Or what is your research like nowadays?
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My research is is both on the vertical side. I like these stories that I just gave you a few.
And I I wanted to make a distinction between these two and the vertical observations that people do on Earth, like what I said, the doctors talking and the tools that they use in the operation.
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And the other one that there is information from the other side that is correct, which because if it would only be the first kind, then it would it is no conclusive evidence that there is this other world.
But there is there are also the other vertical observations that you get information from the other side. That's correct.
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That's true. And that is important to give some kind of circumstantial evidence that there is this afterlife that we all go to.
And I think that's important. And then other aspect of of NDS that draws my attention is the distressing ones.
But that's no. Yeah, no, I love to talk about those as well. But John, please, before I go over that, go ahead and ask me.
(32:12):
No, I was just curious what Bob thinks about spirits that that don't come back, you know, once once we pass on, do you believe their consciousness or spirits have the ability to hang around?
You know, I hear many of many sorts of stories, and this is also one of them. But I don't know. I think no one really can tell you how it really works on the other side.
(32:45):
I always say to people if if there is someone who tells you, I know exactly how it works there, you can do is to turn on your heels and run away as quickly as possible because that's that's impossible.
No one can know that because this otherworldly environment is so different from ours. It has perhaps more dimensions.
(33:07):
And if you have more dimensions, it's it's inaccessible for our minds to understand what it is. I think it's in the quantum realm.
Like, like, yeah, I was left with more questions than answers. And they're so mad because I never got to even ask a question.
It was so it was like, where I wanted to ask the first question I wasn't going to ask was what is this place?
(33:29):
You know what I mean? And I guess my only my first question, but before I had a chance to even ask, I was like, don't shut off.
But I got sent back. I was so upset. I was like, man, I was left with more questions than answers because I'm like, I felt more alive there than I do now.
I feel like I went back to sleep. You know what I mean? I'm in a dream. That's what it feels like. It's really weird.
I feel like I'm more awake on that side than I was here. Yeah, I probably know what you were going to ask.
(33:52):
They said, no, they're like, no, he's a questioner.
Send him back. What typical being said is the other side is more real than here.
You say it in this dreamlike situation here.
But others say it's more real there.
Or when they say earthly life is like a television set with only black and white.
(34:16):
And the other side color color television. Yeah, that's what it felt like.
It felt like it was more I was more alive there and more there than I am here.
Yeah. Yeah, that's really crazy.
And then it's the case, then you can just the problems that we have here on Earth in our own little lives, perhaps, but also on a grander scale are so small in comparison to what we have there.
(34:48):
It all falls away. It's not important anymore.
The things we worry about here are absolutely nonsense.
What we worry about on a day to day basis, the thousands of things we worry about.
And it's just it's so useless when you actually go to that place and you come back and you think yourself like, wow, it really is not that serious.
(35:09):
Like this life doesn't have to be made out to be that serious and worry about every little thing all the time.
So they're all manmade problems. I mean, you look at times manmade money's manmade.
You know, everything is created by us. And so we're creating our own problems.
And that's why you have these awesome experiences in the.
(35:31):
But nevertheless, on the other side, it seems to be that they are very, very interested in what we do, what we experience, how we how we love and how we are loved and especially how we experience life.
The whole experience seems to be that is what it's all about.
(35:52):
That's the interesting part for the other side.
They want to know how we experience life. Doesn't matter how you are shit.
Then interesting to if there's love, it's nice to. Yep. Absolutely.
Absolutely. John, you have a question you want to go ahead.
No, if you got one, I'm still got my mind running a thousand different.
(36:18):
What are some what are some I know you've already expressed some of the cases that were really compelling to you.
What are some of the most compelling cases, other cases that you would talk about if someone was asking what were the most compelling cases that you've had come across?
I expect you on the darker side now, because you talked about the lighter side.
(36:39):
So when they have distressing type stuff, what is most compelling cases there that you've seen?
You mean on the darker side? Yeah, when people go to that not so happy place where they go to have that other side, typical side to it.
Well, let me first try to answer your other question.
(37:00):
What is the thing that I find most interesting about NDEs?
And that is that there are life reviews where people feel what they did to others as if they are the other.
I heard AJ say something like that.
It is that when you see your life review, you get to see what you did to others and you don't only see it as an onlooker,
(37:31):
but you see it as from the point of view of the other.
You are that other person. And that is very direct.
I have to. Sorry, I have a little.
You're good. It's going on around America right now.
That is the thing that struck me really. And it reoccurs and AJ said it too.
(37:57):
And so many people say that you feel it from the other side. You are that other side.
Yeah. Now, what you are the other question about distressing aspects.
What's the most compelling case that you saw or read about or studied that was on the distressing side?
A very interesting one. I'll just flash another book.
(38:20):
OK, please. OK, I know that book very well. Do you know her?
I do. I don't know her personally, but I do know the book.
Yeah, she is. She is a very nice person, very, so to speak, common person, just a normal person like we all are.
(38:43):
Nothing special, but she had a medical problem and then she wound up in this really hell like situation.
And she part of your group. Yes, I know her. She is.
She's linked to ions also. Yes. That is amazing. But please continue.
Yeah. And she found herself in this hell like situation.
(39:10):
Now, before I go on, the number of distressing NDEs is very small.
It's difficult to wrap a number around. It's like five to maybe 10 or 15 percent of the cases because people don't really step forward.
It's difficult to know how many there are. Yeah. But there are a number of of this group.
(39:34):
There is a subset that really is hellish and she had a hellish experience and eventually she escapes this by singing a Christmas carol in a situation where she was in a prostitute kind of situation in her hellish environment.
(39:56):
And then she went and she came out of this situation and landed in heaven.
But she was told that her life was not over yet. She had to finish it.
And this is interesting because she is just a common person who had this.
There's nothing special about her. Now, on the other side, there are also cases of people who have done terrible things.
(40:26):
And I'm thinking of Daniel Brinkley. He wrote a book about his experience.
He was in countless fights. He bullied children in school.
He stole their bikes. He terrorized them. And then he went working for an American organization that killed people in other countries.
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And he killed a lot of people. Actually, one time he killed 50 people in a hotel by blowing up the whole hotel in order to get out only one person.
Now, you wouldn't mention that as a very nice person, I think. And he still had a blissful NDE.
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And there are so many of these cases that you can really say the conclusion that we can draw scientifically is that you cannot say that people who have had a distressing NDE have done bad things.
Or people who have had a blissful NDE have done only good things. That's not the case.
(41:31):
Anyone can have a distressing NDE, even if you are a saint.
Actually, there are stories of saints who have had hellish kind of experiences.
Not sure whether those are near death experiences. So that's the thing.
So there must be another explanation for distressing NDE's. And the idea is that things from our collective unconscious pop up.
(41:59):
And that can be random. It could be nice, but it could also be distressing.
And also things coming up from your own personal conscious.
Like the woman who wrote the book that I just fleshed out to you, Kathy McDaniel.
She says of herself, I was so terrified of dying because I was raised Roman Catholic with hell and purgatory, just like me.
(42:31):
But she took it into length and she was so afraid of everything that she had her hell.
She said, I created my own hell, probably.
So there are reasons why someone could have or could create its own distressing situation on the other side.
(42:55):
But again, I don't believe that it will last. I think all NDE's eventually will turn good.
And actually there are NDEers that have heard that explicitly told to them.
One of them, Chris Carson, said to me that he had heard explicitly told to him that there is no hell and no purgatory.
(43:20):
And everyone...
That's what I mean. That's what I felt in my heart.
Like that's what I got back from what I got out of it.
Like there was no hell, there was no judgment. It was just based on my own judgment.
It's a kind of neutrality there. It's a kind of neutrality.
There's no judgment because on the other side, the words good and bad fall away.
(43:44):
That's another thing that I learned from NDEers.
Those are words of our earth. We created them.
And on the other side, it's not there.
It's too big to be...
Just as you said before, it's so big and so vast that everything that we do here is just like pinpoints.
(44:09):
It doesn't matter. It's so small.
So I heard that if you didn't learn what you were supposed to learn,
and you do end up passing on, that you go back and you restart your lessons.
That's what I've heard.
Okay. I heard people say the same kind of things.
(44:33):
But I also hear...
Because that would give you the idea of reincarnation.
But I also hear people in the EERS say, I can't relate to reincarnation.
And actually, I think about this a lot.
And in my thoughts, I went into great extremes by thinking that we are all one.
(44:59):
If we are one, then why would there be a need of reincarnation?
Because the oneness that leads all our lives, the Source leads everyone's life.
So why would I need to have another life?
The Source already leads all the lives.
Do you understand what I say?
I think of a chain, and then one of those links breaks from the chain,
(45:27):
and it gets sent back to the back of the chain to start again.
Kind of like that.
That's the way I've been told about it.
Well, I see it like this.
Suppose there's a child born, something needs to go in the child,
otherwise it's a zombie, it walks around as a zombie.
(45:49):
Some spirit needs to go in there.
So the Source is the only one.
There's only one.
The Source goes into this baby.
It goes into every living creature, and even in the dead stuff, there is the Source.
So the Source leads every life, even of the baby goat or the puppy or whatever.
(46:14):
And it has also led the life of Marie Antoinette or Washington or you name it,
or a simple woman in a market in Germany in the 1600s or whatever.
The Source led every single life.
(46:35):
It leads your life, it leads my life, it leads the listener's life.
I believe it.
I don't say that I know how it works, but this is how I think maybe that's also a possibility.
So then you don't need reincarnation.
Yeah, I try to tell people it's like taking a glass of water,
putting a piece of plastic over the top,
(46:57):
poking a small hole in it and turning it upside down and letting droplets come out.
That water is the source of energy that we call God,
and the extension of the droplets of water is still God,
but it's just our extension, which we are that extension of that source of energy.
That's what I try to explain to people,
because that's the exact way that I felt when I was over there.
(47:19):
That's exactly what I was shown, that's exactly what I knew from my review, everything.
That's what I was told.
So I just have that knowing in my heart for some reason.
It's a great feeling to have that all my religious background and like holds that I had on me were broken,
because I feel freer now that I don't have to walk around and be like,
(47:42):
oh my gosh, if I do that, I'm going here.
If I do that, I'm going to go here.
Now it's like I can live my life and be like chain free, you know?
But then you can also relate to the story that I sometimes hear is like,
we are all like waves.
If there's a wave, it goes above the water.
(48:04):
It is an identity.
It is something special.
It's a wave.
But after a while, it goes back into the water again.
It goes into the ocean and there's nothing left of the wave.
It's just the ocean that creates every wave.
So every wave think it's their own entity.
But eventually we're all one big body of ocean.
(48:28):
It's just a way of looking at it.
Yeah, I love that.
That's great.
Beautiful analogy.
Yeah.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
But on the same side, I know that there have been cases.
I'm thinking of Betty Guaidano's case, very interesting case.
She was living in a dysfunctional family and was a drug addict and was in a horrible situation.
(48:53):
She prostituted and stuff like that to get money, cheated people out of their money, then had an overdose.
She had an NDE.
In her NDE, she was shown that she had chosen this life herself before coming to Earth.
Wow, I must say that.
And it was very interesting how she explained that.
(49:14):
She said it was as if I was in a grocery store with a grocery cart and I could pull out of the shelves all kinds of experiences.
And there it was.
I saw incest.
I thought, wow, that's interesting.
Let's put that in my cart.
And there is prostitution. Wonderful.
I want to experience that too.
In the cart.
(49:35):
And she went on like that.
And that's what she had.
And then she said, when she understood that it was like that, she nevertheless didn't want to go back to her body again.
She said, it's broken.
I can't go there.
And then they said, well, if you really don't want to go back, that's fine.
(49:56):
But then we have to bring you eventually back to in another body of another child that has the same kind of cart with all those items in it.
And on top of that, also the items that this child has for itself.
And then she said, OK, well, if that's additive, then I'd rather not do it.
(50:21):
And then she said, I will go back to my body.
So this story, it shows you that there is maybe some kind of situation where if you don't want to go back, that you have to go back in a different situation, in a similar situation, but in somewhere else in a different time.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to do.
(50:43):
I don't know how it works.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Absolutely.
So it's interesting to see all these things.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
Absolutely fascinating.
I want to ask you real quick before we get to your book, I want to ask you how do you end?
What are the biggest unanswered questions in NDE research today that you guys are facing?
(51:07):
Still the critical part, because there is there is research done in the UK by Sampania.
And they try to hide hidden signals in operating domes.
So you have to picture it like this.
There is an operating dome.
(51:28):
A patient is there.
The patient and the staff doesn't know that there is a computer on top of a shelf with at random pictures.
Now, the hope was that if the patient would have a near death experience, it would hover just below the ceiling, which is typical.
(51:51):
You always hear that.
I hover just below the ceiling.
And then they would see the hidden signals and then have their NDE come back again and then would say, oh, I went on the cupboard and I saw hidden signals.
Well, that didn't give any conclusive evidence.
There was didn't do anything.
And I think it's a very strange research because if you are a patient and suddenly you're out of your body and you hover just below the ceiling and you look down and you see your own body and people working on it, what are you going to look for?
(52:29):
Are you going to look for hidden signals on a cupboard?
No, I don't think so.
Moreover, maybe too quickly, people are being dragged away there or torn away there to this otherworldly environment where they have this wonderful unconditional love and whatever.
Yeah, it was quick for me.
So it was a quick pull away from me.
(52:51):
I was in my room probably for what maybe it felt like eternity for me at first, but like what must have been maybe seconds, maybe.
You know, so but so about I just want you to be able to tell our viewers where they can purchase your books and anything else you'd like to talk about with them.
Well, I'll just flash my book out to you and it's it's called Let me have the light.
(53:20):
Increasements of near death experiences and there's quotations from over 100 experiences. And you know, I say I well my name is on the title on the book, but it's actually is written by all these ND years with all their quotes.
I have to ask so many I had to ask the confirmation that I could use their quotes. So that was a big job. And I was so happy that they allowed me to do that.
(53:52):
And I think that's a message that I would give to your listeners if there are in the years out there, please tell your ND to others because it's important that more people get to know that this is real in order to soothe their fear of death, but also to enlighten their lives because it is also a D.
(54:19):
You could say that I think it also gives a new perspective of life. You don't have to have an end yourself like myself in order to enjoy the the nice after effects of ND ease a positive view on life.
(54:40):
Would you agree with that that there's a yeah.
Oh, there's absolutely is I mean I told you I mean it totally changed my my life in the course of my life. I should be dead. I really should be and I shouldn't be here right now because I would have come I would have been that didn't happen to me.
I was going to overdose again I was going to die. And there was no stopping it like it was going to happen so I think that that divine intervention of whatever happened there.
(55:06):
And it definitely changed a lot of things because it scared me and ended up getting into trouble afterwards and also like I ended up getting going down this path that was just wild and I ended up changing my whole life and I've been free from that for a very long time now.
Thank God. And, you know, it's just it's been an amazing journey to see what is overcome or what I've overcome from that far out, and what happened throughout that time to make me overcome it.
(55:31):
And it just seems like very much divine intervention constantly over so yeah definitely have a positive impact change in your life.
How long did it take you to adjust to a kind of normal life again because I mean it's very it's overwhelming of course your experience took me at least two years.
Yeah.
On average, it's like seven.
(55:52):
Yeah. I mean I still I mean I really haven't adjusted completely yet like especially with the experiences that I have the phenomenon I still have happening.
I it's very hard to get adjusted to it but, you know, I'm able to now work as a you know researcher panel researcher and be able to validate it and film it and, you know, show people that it's not just me it's being validated by scientific equipment and stuff like that so it's
(56:18):
it's pretty it's pretty cool to have that now, you know, it's an outlet. If you have premonitions, why don't you write them down and on an email and write them to yourself then you have some laser.
I'm going to do that now I didn't know I didn't even think about that that at the time stamp with the mailing stuff so I'm going to do that.
I'm going to definitely do that. Yeah.
(56:41):
I mean, you can help other people with it. Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, here's what here's an example of okay so my friend, I was over his house one day.
And,
his brother had come home he got into a fight with his girlfriend. And we were just drinking beer we're talking and all stuff and he went to his room, and he was fighting on the phone with his girlfriend so right before I left I got this weird feeling on my stomach and I started to sweat
(57:07):
profusely. And I heard this voice say, tell me tell your friend basically to check on his brother.
So I said to him, my friend Mike I said listen when I leave, I don't know what the reason is. I said we need to make sure that you check on your brother because something bad is going to happen today I don't know what it is just make sure you check your
brother and just trust me on this. Just take my word, please.
So 25 minutes after I left the house. My friend Mike ends up getting up off his bed to go get another beer. Once you go walk past his brother room realize that there's no more yelling on the phone. So he's like, wait a minute, let me just check on my brother like
(57:39):
Anthony said, and all of a sudden he goes knocks on the door, he doesn't hear anything he puts his ear on the door, and he hears gargling noises so he kicks the door open because the door was locked and his brother had overdose on two bags of heroin.
He puts fentanyl in it, and he ended up saving his brother's life and his brother ends up living because he ended up getting to him in time and everything. And he called me up freaking out he's like I will never doubt you ever again whenever you tell me something like that and all stuff and it's happened three different times where I've been able to have this premonition come over me right before something happens.
(58:12):
One time was with my father, and I was literally in the car with him he was driving and he ended up seizing in the car while we're driving and we started just going across the road. And I knew exactly what to do like the voice already told me what to do is to take his foot off the gas after kicking in neutral, and then take just holding the wheel steering to the side of the road to the car comes to a complete stop and have my friend in the back who was in the back and 911 and luckily my dad was saved too but you know it's these weird moments that I just can't explain that I, you know, I write
(58:42):
it down I say, but it's like I you know it's hard to do it right in that moment you know.
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's very interesting that that happens. I think you're the door to the other side is still a little bit open.
You have contact with it you. Maybe you can even heal people. I don't know but it's, it's also some some of the after effects that I heard. Wow. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing.
(59:12):
I would love to have you come on again and you wouldn't mind because we have so much more I'd love to talk about what's nice to be here with you with all of them.
Definitely I would love to have you come on again and you would love to.
Very nice. All right, so I'm definitely well thank you so much for your time Bob I truly appreciate you for all that you do and keep please doing what you're doing.
Your work is amazing. I can't wait to get your book I'm gonna let you know how it is for sure.
(59:36):
I will. People can access my email my website, and they can ask questions there. And it's Bob copas.com. That's easy. There's a form where people can get questions for me if they want to.
Well, I think AJ should mail it to you to get autograph.
(59:57):
100% 100% you know it. For sure. But Bob thank you so much for your time on one once again just shout out the name of your book where they can find it at.
And, you know, we'll let you go for the day so.
Yeah, it's impressions of near death experiences at amazon.com or yeah, it's Amazon, where you can find it.
(01:00:21):
Awesome. Awesome. Well thank you so much Bob I truly appreciate your time.
Thank you. Thank you for having me on your show wonderful thank you. Thank you have a great day my friend.
Hold on one second brother.
Sorry, I gotta change the layout working on my phone here. There we go.
(01:00:44):
Got it. So man, what do you think brother I thought this was an absolutely amazing podcast that we need to have we had to have this episode, we've had on actually now that I remember it actually we actually talked to Kathy McDaniel.
Believe it or not when I first saw the book I thought of someone else's name and then once you said Kathy name I remember Kathy, and we've actually talked to Kathy Kathy's an amazing woman that he works with, and her new experience is pretty wild like he said and,
(01:01:10):
you know, what how she got out of it was absolutely wild. And just these near death experiences then what do you think of them.
Did you know I feel grateful like I haven't actually been dead, you know, but I've come so close to it like, like, I don't know, I don't know what the thing I mean all the research that I've done.
(01:01:31):
You know, I believe that we're all energy. And once our energy leaves this cocoon or whatever. You know, I honestly believe we start over if our lesson wasn't learned you know, that's what I believe.
No, absolutely man. Absolutely. You know like everyone's leaving different you know but I tell you from what I experienced there's just, it's just a knowing now you know what I mean it's no longer I believe it's that I know you know what I mean like it's not like a knowing that
(01:01:59):
your copy know like oh I know everything that's happening there's no I don't know it's just enough to tilt the scale a little bit from my feet is knowing it's no longer a ballooning you know what I mean that's what I'm trying to say.
Well, but um you know I absolutely love this this um this is a great guest. I love to have them on again. Oh my god. I mean it was amazing. I mean, the fact like when he was talking about different people's experiences, and like I thought it was really fascinating how different people saw different things
(01:02:28):
in their experiences based on like their religious background or their cultural beliefs that I don't know that is amazing to me.
Yeah, I want to thank everybody for tuning in. This was a great show and I hope you all enjoyed it. I know Julie stayed with us the whole time so thank you Julie. Yeah, thank you.
(01:02:49):
Thank you guys so much. Thank you everyone else who watches and who listens on Spotify, Apple podcasts and all the other podcasts podcast listening platforms.
If you're not there, follow us you can find all our episodes on there. We truly appreciate everybody. Thank you for watching. And until next time I'm AJ Capasso this is my girlfriend Tammy and this is Jonathan Kiewer.
(01:03:11):
We are talking with the source later.
10...9...8...7...6...
(00:24):
10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...
(00:54):
What's going on everybody? This is AJ Capasso here from Talking with the Source. I'm here with my
beautiful girlfriend Tammy next to me along with my other host Jonathan Keyworth of JK 47 Paranormal
Investigations and Targeting with the JK. Brother, how you been? Good man, yourself? Been hanging in
(01:20):
brother. You know that's all we can do. That's the only thing I think it feels like that we have left.
Just hanging in. But right, but anyway how are you doing? Doing great. Good, good. That's great. I'm
back. I'm doing alright. So today guys we have an amazing guest today. We're gonna talk about his
book. We're gonna talk about near-death experiences. He's an amazing person. We got to speak him back
(01:43):
for a little bit and I'm super excited to get this conversation ready and going. His name is
Robert Christopher Copeland. Let me bring him forward. Hey Bob, how are you doing my friend? I'm fine. Thank you for
having me on your show. It's wonderful to be with you. It's an honor, seriously. Nice being here. So I wanted to ask you first to start off with is can you give the viewers a little bit of background about yourself? I know we did put it in the description but I would love to have it here from your mouth. A little bit of background about yourself and what you've done. Yeah, well I started out as a student
(02:25):
of economics and but during my study I came across the book of Raymond Moody and Raymond Moody is the guy who coined the term near-death experiences in his research and his book really triggered it for me. In his book there is a story of a woman who said and we had her life review and in her life review you get to see everything of your life but also from the other side from the people that you act with but she said
(02:55):
there's no one judging you, there's no judgment and that particular thing really resonated with me because I was brought up as a Roman Catholic with hell and purgatory and I never liked that story of hell and purgatory and here in this book it said there's no judgment so then I thought well okay the Roman Catholic Church is somewhere wrong with the judgment and I think it's logical that there is no judgment.
(03:24):
Well that started it all and I did my career in central banking and then and that shows you that even economists can be spiritually oriented and then I started out researching NDEs and that got out of hand so I had a few books that I published and the latest one is with hundreds of quotes from NDEs and that gives a very good
(03:53):
impression of what an NDE is.
Now I wanted to ask you about what is your favorite quote that you have found out of all your books?
There are a number of favorite quotes that I like
but the one that I really like there's two or so that stick out. One is of a little girl Christina, she was abducted by two men, not all NDEs start with just even cardiac arrest.
(04:29):
In this case it was an assault and she was, they tried to drown her and she was underwater facing up. She could look through the water and see the sun shine and at the same time she had a view from above and that's something you hear more often and the ears have dual perspective.
(04:54):
And then from above she saw that her father was rushing towards her to rescue her. But during that episode she had her NDE and she went through a tunnel and at the end of the tunnel there was an elderly guy standing there blocking the entrance and she saw that there was light behind him and she wanted to go there but he prevented that from happening.
(05:21):
And she said that must have been God, no one else. And then she said, God sent me back again but he said, life is easy, it has only four ingredients.
And then he gave her the ingredients and the ingredients that he gave were love, be loved, just be, and experience life.
(05:45):
So the first two are a verb, you have to do something for that, so love and be loved, especially the be loved part, not everyone is easy at that.
And the second two, just be and experience life, you can do that by sitting on a chair, but it's nicer to do something, to go out and to love and to be loved. So that's what I thought was one of the best, one of the major quotes there is.
(06:15):
I absolutely love it, I think that was an amazing one, that was an amazing one to pick, absolutely for sure. That was the three ingredients, I love that. Four ingredients.
That's amazing though, that truly is. I look so forward to reading your book actually, I actually just ordered it the other day when I got my money in for my check and I'm looking forward to checking it out and checking out some of these experiences because
(06:42):
with my experience, like I was telling you in back, it really opens my mind to keep reading about this and seeing what other people are experiencing, to know that one, that I'm not crazy, that I did experience something when that happened, and also that
it was medically impossible for me to even come back because if I did I should have been brain dead for the amount of time that I was without oxygen. So it's like, it was absolutely wild.
(07:05):
I mean by the time I was found by the paramedics it was already like at least like six to seven minutes deep without me breathing because my father had found me. So it was, you know, I was very shocked.
I thought when I came back I honestly thought that I had a brain damage, like I had thought, because I started feeling energy in rooms and started being able to feel like if someone say I argued in a room and I walked in, the whole room would feel like I was walking through water,
(07:31):
like just heavy water and I had to like break it through like a knife, you know, and I would feel like other things in the room with me, whether it be like beings or whatever we would call them energies or whatever, and I would feel those in the room.
I'd be able to tell if they were a male or female presence. It was a weird thing that that happens to me and I have premonitions and stuff now. So I thought something was wrong.
(07:53):
I kept going to the doctor. So have you ever found in your studies that people have ever had stuff like that after their NDE?
Absolutely. Those are a number of after effects that you mentioned. The after effects that are there is that people change. I mean an NDE is not something that you can just have and then just walk on in your life.
(08:17):
It is a life changer. It changes your life thoroughly and mainly it makes you less focused on money and power and more focused on relations with other people.
Nature becomes important. A number of people do have mediumistic abilities for being psychic and they know what happens in the near future.
(08:51):
There's even a woman who noticed that she had dreams and they were so clear with such a very detailed information and then the next day something would happen in the news.
For example, she had seen the flight that landed in the Hudson River. You might remember that.
(09:22):
There was a film made out of it. She actually saw that happening before it happened and because no one believed her, she started writing herself mails and if you write yourself a mail saying what you have seen, it is time stamped.
If you send a mail, there is a time stamp on it. With that, she could show that she really had seen it before it happened and there were a lot of other cases that she saw before.
(09:52):
Would you say premonition is something that people would have typically? Maybe you also have other side effects like do you interfere with electricity? That's a very strange one, I think.
Do you have an electric watch? I do actually. I have a watch. I don't have any problems with the watch yet but one thing that I do have a problem being around is microwaves and stuff like that.
(10:18):
I feel the energy right here in my third eye right here where they would say your third eye chakra is and I can feel it very heavy. It really gets me sick sometimes.
Yeah, so that's one of those. One of the people that I spoke with said that if he would walk under street lamps occasionally, sometimes then they would turn off and then if he walked on that light would turn on again and then the next one would turn off.
(10:49):
So that's very strange and fear of death is something that changes. I don't know, do you fear death anymore? No. So that's typically, that's almost a 100% hit of people that have had an NDE.
They lose the fear of death because they know there is something else behind that moment of death and that's nice. It's a nice something that happens there.
(11:17):
And then higher tolerance for people and what they do. That's another thing that happens. Less religious and more spiritual. I don't know if you recognize that?
Yeah, real quick. I just want to throw this out there for anybody that's new watching. When we say NDE that means near death experience. So we just abbreviate it so we don't have to say that all the time as investigators and researchers of the paranormal.
(11:50):
So I just wanted to throw that out there to anybody new that's watching. Very good of you to say so. That's very important because we are talking about a very strange phenomenon that people have.
They don't always have that when there is a medical critical situation. That's something that people think is always the case. You need to have a cardiac arrest or an accident in order to have a near death experience.
(12:24):
But that's not the case. There are a lot of cases where people have had a very deep psychological problem, really deep. And then sometimes they have such an experience too.
And some people have it with deep meditation that doesn't happen very often, but it has happened. And there are even stories of people who have had a near death experience just spontaneously.
(12:53):
But in all these cases, they are a life changer. People do really change afterwards.
I agree. I didn't actually die, but I was in the Iraq war in 2003 and I should have died a number of times. But I heard a voice that helped me through the whole war and survived.
(13:18):
Wow. That's beautiful. Well, interestingly what you say, you heard a voice that helped you through the war. But what I understand from NDEs and the ears is that they say everyone has help from the other side.
(13:39):
There's always guardian angels or however you want to call them. They are there. So you're never really alone.
Spirit guides. Yeah.
Yeah, guides. And so you're never really alone. Even if you're in deep shit and sometimes people are. I've been in deep shit too. You're never really alone. You're always helped.
(14:07):
Absolutely. So you had mentioned that you noticed in your research that people who come out from an NDE, they are less religious and more spiritual.
Do you think that there's any in your research, have you come across anything that shows the variance between a religion, what your belief system was?
(14:29):
Oh, that's an interesting question. What we do see is people do see in their near death experience, sometimes they see deceased relatives, but sometimes they see deities from their own religion.
So this shows you that there is maybe some kind of cultural aspect in an NDE. So people who are brought up in Western societies with Christianity would typically see Jesus.
(15:05):
And again, not every NDE is the same. So not everyone sees Jesus who is as an NDE in Western society.
Only a number of people have seen Jesus in their NDE. But there are people in other countries like in Iran, they see Mohammed or they see the Mahdi or another person of their own religion.
(15:27):
And in India, they see Krishna and the explanation for this may perhaps be that an NDE is very difficult for people to express. It's ineffable.
There are no words to express your NDE. I think, Adi, you can relate to that. It's difficult to explain to other people what you went through.
(15:56):
So if you see during your NDE, you see things, you try to wrap them in words that we have here. And if you see the light, maybe you will want to see Jesus in it or it presents itself as Jesus.
I don't know. But in this case, there is some kind of cultural element in NDE. But there are a number of things that reoccur everywhere, whether you are in China or in India or Australia, Europe, US, doesn't matter.
(16:31):
And those are like the unconditional love that's seen.
Yeah. It felt crazy. It felt absolutely wild. I mean, it felt like you were wrapped in a blanket of just absolute love.
Like this love that was like a mother can't give a baby. Like you can't get from a first kiss, not your first love, your first girlfriend.
It was the most amazing love that I ever felt. It was like I actually knew that I was loved.
(16:56):
Like I didn't have to actually have any flaw in my mind or any doubt or having like a body shame or whatever. I didn't have none of that. I was just like, I felt complete. It was the most weirdest feeling. I can't even explain it.
And it doesn't matter what you have done. It doesn't matter what you did in your life. You are loved anyway. So that applies. I always tell people, just think of someone you really don't like.
(17:20):
It could be a politician or someone around the corner or your boss or so. But also that person is loved beyond their wildest dreams. It applies to everyone.
So love, the unconditional love, and even some people say it's even the word unconditional love doesn't really cover it. It's more than that.
(17:41):
So, but that is one of the things that would be seen everywhere or would be experienced everywhere around the world. And the second thing is that there is this great interconnectedness that people feel.
It's like it's also this is inexplainable. People who have had such an experience don't know how to express it, but they go into great lengths into trying to express it.
(18:11):
And it varies from just saying that there was such a great interconnectedness with everyone to that we are all one, to that we are all part of God or that we are actually God, but together we are this one.
And I just quote what the people told me, but that's something that really struck me. Those two things, unconditional love and the feeling of oneness, oneness with everything, also with the plants and the animals and nature and galaxies far away.
(18:50):
So, so Bob, did now did you personally experience a near death experience and what would you advise somebody that went through this like in his questioning, you know what they saw.
Let me answer the last question first if if people have had a near death experience, I would advise them to look for information. There's a lot of information. You're not the only one.
(19:20):
There's like four to 5% of the population has had an NDE. Now, can't do your math and see how many people that is. It's really a lot.
So, and and then try to find information on for instance, ions.org and ions is an organization that I am, I'm board member of this organization.
(19:46):
It's an American organization. I'm one of the two foreign board members.
I'm the only one coming from Canada and it's called the International Association for Near Death Studies and they have a wonderful website with lots of information with with hundreds of thousands of cases.
You can just go to their archive and find cases and it's interesting to go through some of them.
(20:12):
So, to your first question, did I have an NDE myself? I always say no, but there was someone at one of the conferences in the US who said to me, I know that you have had an NDE as a child and I said, why do you think that?
(20:33):
She said, I can see that from your aura and I said, well, I don't know. I can't remember. She said, I am absolutely sure.
And if I go back in my memory, I know that one time in in Iran where we lived, I was roaming the cupboards of my mother's kitchen and I found cinnamon and I put that in my mouth and it went all the way through my lungs.
(20:57):
And I know that I was struggling for breath. So, if I had an NDE, it must have been at that moment. But I forgot it.
Wow.
Which is common for children. Children sometimes they think that everything is normal, what they experience at that moment.
So, for us as an adult, we know that an NDE is something weird, something strange, not common. But for a child, it might be just something, well, okay, this is another experience. I'll try to remember that.
(21:34):
Yeah, I feel bad. I shut the garage door on my brother. He was trapped under the garage door.
I don't know if he had an NDE, but he was not happy.
He was not happy.
I bet not.
What I want to say about was that, about what you were talking about before.
(21:57):
Oh man, what is it? I just had it in my head.
And I forgot because we talked about so much stuff. I have my mind going everywhere.
You mentioned that there's an institute that studies near-death experiences. I noticed a lot. I will have debates with people on this. And they'll say that science doesn't back it or whatever. What do you believe on that?
(22:25):
Sorry, what do you?
Science is like a chemical release in your brain that causes it. So basically it's not like that.
Yes. So what you're talking about is actually that there are ideas that there are perhaps a lack of oxygen that triggers these experiences.
(22:46):
Yeah, like DMT.
In my brain there are substances that are released that trigger this. Yeah.
Let me tell you that there is in the Netherlands, there was a study done.
And that was published in The Lancet. And The Lancet is a very important medical journal.
(23:09):
So the study was very highly appraised and was repeated in the US and the UK. And the study was in the sense that there were 10 different hospitals included during 13 years.
And each cardiac arrest patient that was brought in and resuscitated successfully was asked the question, do you remember anything from when you were out?
(23:39):
Now they had, after 13 years, they had 344 cases and 62 of these cases had recollection. So those were the NDEs.
Now, interestingly, then you have two groups, one group with an NDE and one group without an NDE. But both groups had a dying brain.
(24:04):
Both groups had a lack of oxygen, yet there were no other differences between these two groups. So the trigger was not found. And it's not a lack of oxygen or the creation of whatever substance in the brain, in a dying brain.
(24:29):
And there are other, I understand your question, though. It's a very valid question because that would make these stories only like a fairy tale.
And I think there is another kind of proof or very important things going on to show that these experiences are real.
(24:53):
And those are the veridical observations. And let me explain that to you. Veridical observation is a verifiable out-of-body experience.
So picture this. You have had an NDE or you have an NDE at this moment. You get out of your body because that's typical.
And sometimes you right away you fly through the tunnel or you skip the tunnel and you go to this wonderful other area, this other world.
(25:24):
But sometimes people stay around their body. They can see what the doctors do. They see, they overhear the conversations. They see what is happening at the crash site.
And then later when they come back again in their body, they can recount what they saw.
(25:45):
And if it's verified independently, then that's important because then it shows you that someone can really be or his consciousness can be outside the body and does not need the body to survive.
Now there are two kinds of veridical observations. One where you see things going on in the world, in the material world.
(26:15):
So those are the conversations of the doctors in the operating dome and the tools they use and stuff like that.
There are many of those stories. Really it's a vast number of these stories that have been verified and independently confirmed.
(26:36):
But the second thing, the second category of these stories is where people get information on the other side.
I'll give you an example. But when they go to the other side, to this otherworldly environment, when they get information and they come back again and the information proved to be correct,
(27:02):
then that shows you that this otherworldly environment is probably there.
And as an example, there is Fiona Horton's story. She has had an NDE as a consequence of some kind of medical situation.
She was dying. Her family was in the hospital. She leaves her body. She sees these people walking around there.
(27:31):
She notices very strange clothing on one of them and that constitutes a veridical observation because you can see then that she can observe these things without being in her body because her body was out, unconscious.
And later it proved to be true that this other person had those clothes, was wearing those clothes.
(27:53):
But the other thing is she went also to the other side and in the other side there she met deceased relatives and one of them presented himself as a baby, as a boy baby.
And this boy baby said to her, you have to remember how I look like and describe me when you see your father again because I'm your brother.
(28:19):
And she said, I don't have a brother. And he said, yes, you do. But I died before you were born. Just check it.
And then when everything was back to normal again for her, she was back to normal. I forgot to say what word I wanted to say.
(28:45):
Anyway, I'm talking in a different language. You have to remember that.
But when she asked the father, the father really said, yeah, that's true. How do you know? How do you know this?
Because they never told her. Yeah, I don't I forgot the reason why they never told her. But anyway, they never told her. And so she had that information from the other side.
(29:15):
It's interesting. There are so many of those stories, too. Yeah. No, they made a movie here in America where a little boy died, had a near death experience.
Then asked his mom, who's this? And it was his sister that she never told him about that died before him. And he was able to describe Jesus and the boy Burpo.
(29:43):
Or, yeah, I said the name. Yeah, he is really famous case in the U.S. And they made a movie after. Yeah, I know.
But that's a similar kind of case. And this is a book that contains so many of those stories.
The self does not die. And that's that's published by also by the International Association for Near Death Studies, just like my book was published there as well.
(30:08):
Yeah, that's amazing. Congratulations.
These kind of these kind of stories show you or give you circumstantial evidence that and the ease are real and that they are not just fairy tales.
There is some kind of basis to them. That's why it's a good question that she that you had.
(30:33):
Now, I'm sorry, guys, I'm going to ask this real quick before I forget it. After having two books and all the research that you've done, what are you studying now about NDS?
What particular part of the NDS are you focusing on? Are you going through certain parts of now?
And these are you just still focusing on more and more cases? Or what is your research like nowadays?
(30:57):
My research is is both on the vertical side. I like these stories that I just gave you a few.
And I I wanted to make a distinction between these two and the vertical observations that people do on Earth, like what I said, the doctors talking and the tools that they use in the operation.
(31:20):
And the other one that there is information from the other side that is correct, which because if it would only be the first kind, then it would it is no conclusive evidence that there is this other world.
But there is there are also the other vertical observations that you get information from the other side. That's correct.
(31:44):
That's true. And that is important to give some kind of circumstantial evidence that there is this afterlife that we all go to.
And I think that's important. And then other aspect of of NDS that draws my attention is the distressing ones.
But that's no. Yeah, no, I love to talk about those as well. But John, please, before I go over that, go ahead and ask me.
(32:12):
No, I was just curious what Bob thinks about spirits that that don't come back, you know, once once we pass on, do you believe their consciousness or spirits have the ability to hang around?
You know, I hear many of many sorts of stories, and this is also one of them. But I don't know. I think no one really can tell you how it really works on the other side.
(32:45):
I always say to people if if there is someone who tells you, I know exactly how it works there, you can do is to turn on your heels and run away as quickly as possible because that's that's impossible.
No one can know that because this otherworldly environment is so different from ours. It has perhaps more dimensions.
(33:07):
And if you have more dimensions, it's it's inaccessible for our minds to understand what it is. I think it's in the quantum realm.
Like, like, yeah, I was left with more questions than answers. And they're so mad because I never got to even ask a question.
It was so it was like, where I wanted to ask the first question I wasn't going to ask was what is this place?
(33:29):
You know what I mean? And I guess my only my first question, but before I had a chance to even ask, I was like, don't shut off.
But I got sent back. I was so upset. I was like, man, I was left with more questions than answers because I'm like, I felt more alive there than I do now.
I feel like I went back to sleep. You know what I mean? I'm in a dream. That's what it feels like. It's really weird.
I feel like I'm more awake on that side than I was here. Yeah, I probably know what you were going to ask.
(33:52):
They said, no, they're like, no, he's a questioner.
Send him back. What typical being said is the other side is more real than here.
You say it in this dreamlike situation here.
But others say it's more real there.
Or when they say earthly life is like a television set with only black and white.
(34:16):
And the other side color color television. Yeah, that's what it felt like.
It felt like it was more I was more alive there and more there than I am here.
Yeah. Yeah, that's really crazy.
And then it's the case, then you can just the problems that we have here on Earth in our own little lives, perhaps, but also on a grander scale are so small in comparison to what we have there.
(34:48):
It all falls away. It's not important anymore.
The things we worry about here are absolutely nonsense.
What we worry about on a day to day basis, the thousands of things we worry about.
And it's just it's so useless when you actually go to that place and you come back and you think yourself like, wow, it really is not that serious.
(35:09):
Like this life doesn't have to be made out to be that serious and worry about every little thing all the time.
So they're all manmade problems. I mean, you look at times manmade money's manmade.
You know, everything is created by us. And so we're creating our own problems.
And that's why you have these awesome experiences in the.
(35:31):
But nevertheless, on the other side, it seems to be that they are very, very interested in what we do, what we experience, how we how we love and how we are loved and especially how we experience life.
The whole experience seems to be that is what it's all about.
(35:52):
That's the interesting part for the other side.
They want to know how we experience life. Doesn't matter how you are shit.
Then interesting to if there's love, it's nice to. Yep. Absolutely.
Absolutely. John, you have a question you want to go ahead.
No, if you got one, I'm still got my mind running a thousand different.
(36:18):
What are some what are some I know you've already expressed some of the cases that were really compelling to you.
What are some of the most compelling cases, other cases that you would talk about if someone was asking what were the most compelling cases that you've had come across?
I expect you on the darker side now, because you talked about the lighter side.
(36:39):
So when they have distressing type stuff, what is most compelling cases there that you've seen?
You mean on the darker side? Yeah, when people go to that not so happy place where they go to have that other side, typical side to it.
Well, let me first try to answer your other question.
(37:00):
What is the thing that I find most interesting about NDEs?
And that is that there are life reviews where people feel what they did to others as if they are the other.
I heard AJ say something like that.
It is that when you see your life review, you get to see what you did to others and you don't only see it as an onlooker,
(37:31):
but you see it as from the point of view of the other.
You are that other person. And that is very direct.
I have to. Sorry, I have a little.
You're good. It's going on around America right now.
That is the thing that struck me really. And it reoccurs and AJ said it too.
(37:57):
And so many people say that you feel it from the other side. You are that other side.
Yeah. Now, what you are the other question about distressing aspects.
What's the most compelling case that you saw or read about or studied that was on the distressing side?
A very interesting one. I'll just flash another book.
(38:20):
OK, please. OK, I know that book very well. Do you know her?
I do. I don't know her personally, but I do know the book.
Yeah, she is. She is a very nice person, very, so to speak, common person, just a normal person like we all are.
(38:43):
Nothing special, but she had a medical problem and then she wound up in this really hell like situation.
And she part of your group. Yes, I know her. She is.
She's linked to ions also. Yes. That is amazing. But please continue.
Yeah. And she found herself in this hell like situation.
(39:10):
Now, before I go on, the number of distressing NDEs is very small.
It's difficult to wrap a number around. It's like five to maybe 10 or 15 percent of the cases because people don't really step forward.
It's difficult to know how many there are. Yeah. But there are a number of of this group.
(39:34):
There is a subset that really is hellish and she had a hellish experience and eventually she escapes this by singing a Christmas carol in a situation where she was in a prostitute kind of situation in her hellish environment.
(39:56):
And then she went and she came out of this situation and landed in heaven.
But she was told that her life was not over yet. She had to finish it.
And this is interesting because she is just a common person who had this.
There's nothing special about her. Now, on the other side, there are also cases of people who have done terrible things.
(40:26):
And I'm thinking of Daniel Brinkley. He wrote a book about his experience.
He was in countless fights. He bullied children in school.
He stole their bikes. He terrorized them. And then he went working for an American organization that killed people in other countries.
(40:49):
And he killed a lot of people. Actually, one time he killed 50 people in a hotel by blowing up the whole hotel in order to get out only one person.
Now, you wouldn't mention that as a very nice person, I think. And he still had a blissful NDE.
(41:10):
And there are so many of these cases that you can really say the conclusion that we can draw scientifically is that you cannot say that people who have had a distressing NDE have done bad things.
Or people who have had a blissful NDE have done only good things. That's not the case.
(41:31):
Anyone can have a distressing NDE, even if you are a saint.
Actually, there are stories of saints who have had hellish kind of experiences.
Not sure whether those are near death experiences. So that's the thing.
So there must be another explanation for distressing NDE's. And the idea is that things from our collective unconscious pop up.
(41:59):
And that can be random. It could be nice, but it could also be distressing.
And also things coming up from your own personal conscious.
Like the woman who wrote the book that I just fleshed out to you, Kathy McDaniel.
She says of herself, I was so terrified of dying because I was raised Roman Catholic with hell and purgatory, just like me.
(42:31):
But she took it into length and she was so afraid of everything that she had her hell.
She said, I created my own hell, probably.
So there are reasons why someone could have or could create its own distressing situation on the other side.
(42:55):
But again, I don't believe that it will last. I think all NDE's eventually will turn good.
And actually there are NDEers that have heard that explicitly told to them.
One of them, Chris Carson, said to me that he had heard explicitly told to him that there is no hell and no purgatory.
(43:20):
And everyone...
That's what I mean. That's what I felt in my heart.
Like that's what I got back from what I got out of it.
Like there was no hell, there was no judgment. It was just based on my own judgment.
It's a kind of neutrality there. It's a kind of neutrality.
There's no judgment because on the other side, the words good and bad fall away.
(43:44):
That's another thing that I learned from NDEers.
Those are words of our earth. We created them.
And on the other side, it's not there.
It's too big to be...
Just as you said before, it's so big and so vast that everything that we do here is just like pinpoints.
(44:09):
It doesn't matter. It's so small.
So I heard that if you didn't learn what you were supposed to learn,
and you do end up passing on, that you go back and you restart your lessons.
That's what I've heard.
Okay. I heard people say the same kind of things.
(44:33):
But I also hear...
Because that would give you the idea of reincarnation.
But I also hear people in the EERS say, I can't relate to reincarnation.
And actually, I think about this a lot.
And in my thoughts, I went into great extremes by thinking that we are all one.
(44:59):
If we are one, then why would there be a need of reincarnation?
Because the oneness that leads all our lives, the Source leads everyone's life.
So why would I need to have another life?
The Source already leads all the lives.
Do you understand what I say?
I think of a chain, and then one of those links breaks from the chain,
(45:27):
and it gets sent back to the back of the chain to start again.
Kind of like that.
That's the way I've been told about it.
Well, I see it like this.
Suppose there's a child born, something needs to go in the child,
otherwise it's a zombie, it walks around as a zombie.
(45:49):
Some spirit needs to go in there.
So the Source is the only one.
There's only one.
The Source goes into this baby.
It goes into every living creature, and even in the dead stuff, there is the Source.
So the Source leads every life, even of the baby goat or the puppy or whatever.
(46:14):
And it has also led the life of Marie Antoinette or Washington or you name it,
or a simple woman in a market in Germany in the 1600s or whatever.
The Source led every single life.
(46:35):
It leads your life, it leads my life, it leads the listener's life.
I believe it.
I don't say that I know how it works, but this is how I think maybe that's also a possibility.
So then you don't need reincarnation.
Yeah, I try to tell people it's like taking a glass of water,
putting a piece of plastic over the top,
(46:57):
poking a small hole in it and turning it upside down and letting droplets come out.
That water is the source of energy that we call God,
and the extension of the droplets of water is still God,
but it's just our extension, which we are that extension of that source of energy.
That's what I try to explain to people,
because that's the exact way that I felt when I was over there.
(47:19):
That's exactly what I was shown, that's exactly what I knew from my review, everything.
That's what I was told.
So I just have that knowing in my heart for some reason.
It's a great feeling to have that all my religious background and like holds that I had on me were broken,
because I feel freer now that I don't have to walk around and be like,
(47:42):
oh my gosh, if I do that, I'm going here.
If I do that, I'm going to go here.
Now it's like I can live my life and be like chain free, you know?
But then you can also relate to the story that I sometimes hear is like,
we are all like waves.
If there's a wave, it goes above the water.
(48:04):
It is an identity.
It is something special.
It's a wave.
But after a while, it goes back into the water again.
It goes into the ocean and there's nothing left of the wave.
It's just the ocean that creates every wave.
So every wave think it's their own entity.
But eventually we're all one big body of ocean.
(48:28):
It's just a way of looking at it.
Yeah, I love that.
That's great.
Beautiful analogy.
Yeah.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
But on the same side, I know that there have been cases.
I'm thinking of Betty Guaidano's case, very interesting case.
She was living in a dysfunctional family and was a drug addict and was in a horrible situation.
(48:53):
She prostituted and stuff like that to get money, cheated people out of their money, then had an overdose.
She had an NDE.
In her NDE, she was shown that she had chosen this life herself before coming to Earth.
Wow, I must say that.
And it was very interesting how she explained that.
(49:14):
She said it was as if I was in a grocery store with a grocery cart and I could pull out of the shelves all kinds of experiences.
And there it was.
I saw incest.
I thought, wow, that's interesting.
Let's put that in my cart.
And there is prostitution. Wonderful.
I want to experience that too.
In the cart.
(49:35):
And she went on like that.
And that's what she had.
And then she said, when she understood that it was like that, she nevertheless didn't want to go back to her body again.
She said, it's broken.
I can't go there.
And then they said, well, if you really don't want to go back, that's fine.
(49:56):
But then we have to bring you eventually back to in another body of another child that has the same kind of cart with all those items in it.
And on top of that, also the items that this child has for itself.
And then she said, OK, well, if that's additive, then I'd rather not do it.
(50:21):
And then she said, I will go back to my body.
So this story, it shows you that there is maybe some kind of situation where if you don't want to go back, that you have to go back in a different situation, in a similar situation, but in somewhere else in a different time.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to do.
(50:43):
I don't know how it works.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Absolutely.
So it's interesting to see all these things.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
Absolutely fascinating.
I want to ask you real quick before we get to your book, I want to ask you how do you end?
What are the biggest unanswered questions in NDE research today that you guys are facing?
(51:07):
Still the critical part, because there is there is research done in the UK by Sampania.
And they try to hide hidden signals in operating domes.
So you have to picture it like this.
There is an operating dome.
(51:28):
A patient is there.
The patient and the staff doesn't know that there is a computer on top of a shelf with at random pictures.
Now, the hope was that if the patient would have a near death experience, it would hover just below the ceiling, which is typical.
(51:51):
You always hear that.
I hover just below the ceiling.
And then they would see the hidden signals and then have their NDE come back again and then would say, oh, I went on the cupboard and I saw hidden signals.
Well, that didn't give any conclusive evidence.
There was didn't do anything.
And I think it's a very strange research because if you are a patient and suddenly you're out of your body and you hover just below the ceiling and you look down and you see your own body and people working on it, what are you going to look for?
(52:29):
Are you going to look for hidden signals on a cupboard?
No, I don't think so.
Moreover, maybe too quickly, people are being dragged away there or torn away there to this otherworldly environment where they have this wonderful unconditional love and whatever.
Yeah, it was quick for me.
So it was a quick pull away from me.
(52:51):
I was in my room probably for what maybe it felt like eternity for me at first, but like what must have been maybe seconds, maybe.
You know, so but so about I just want you to be able to tell our viewers where they can purchase your books and anything else you'd like to talk about with them.
Well, I'll just flash my book out to you and it's it's called Let me have the light.
(53:20):
Increasements of near death experiences and there's quotations from over 100 experiences. And you know, I say I well my name is on the title on the book, but it's actually is written by all these ND years with all their quotes.
I have to ask so many I had to ask the confirmation that I could use their quotes. So that was a big job. And I was so happy that they allowed me to do that.
(53:52):
And I think that's a message that I would give to your listeners if there are in the years out there, please tell your ND to others because it's important that more people get to know that this is real in order to soothe their fear of death, but also to enlighten their lives because it is also a D.
(54:19):
You could say that I think it also gives a new perspective of life. You don't have to have an end yourself like myself in order to enjoy the the nice after effects of ND ease a positive view on life.
(54:40):
Would you agree with that that there's a yeah.
Oh, there's absolutely is I mean I told you I mean it totally changed my my life in the course of my life. I should be dead. I really should be and I shouldn't be here right now because I would have come I would have been that didn't happen to me.
I was going to overdose again I was going to die. And there was no stopping it like it was going to happen so I think that that divine intervention of whatever happened there.
(55:06):
And it definitely changed a lot of things because it scared me and ended up getting into trouble afterwards and also like I ended up getting going down this path that was just wild and I ended up changing my whole life and I've been free from that for a very long time now.
Thank God. And, you know, it's just it's been an amazing journey to see what is overcome or what I've overcome from that far out, and what happened throughout that time to make me overcome it.
(55:31):
And it just seems like very much divine intervention constantly over so yeah definitely have a positive impact change in your life.
How long did it take you to adjust to a kind of normal life again because I mean it's very it's overwhelming of course your experience took me at least two years.
Yeah.
On average, it's like seven.
(55:52):
Yeah. I mean I still I mean I really haven't adjusted completely yet like especially with the experiences that I have the phenomenon I still have happening.
I it's very hard to get adjusted to it but, you know, I'm able to now work as a you know researcher panel researcher and be able to validate it and film it and, you know, show people that it's not just me it's being validated by scientific equipment and stuff like that so it's
(56:18):
it's pretty it's pretty cool to have that now, you know, it's an outlet. If you have premonitions, why don't you write them down and on an email and write them to yourself then you have some laser.
I'm going to do that now I didn't know I didn't even think about that that at the time stamp with the mailing stuff so I'm going to do that.
I'm going to definitely do that. Yeah.
(56:41):
I mean, you can help other people with it. Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, here's what here's an example of okay so my friend, I was over his house one day.
And,
his brother had come home he got into a fight with his girlfriend. And we were just drinking beer we're talking and all stuff and he went to his room, and he was fighting on the phone with his girlfriend so right before I left I got this weird feeling on my stomach and I started to sweat
(57:07):
profusely. And I heard this voice say, tell me tell your friend basically to check on his brother.
So I said to him, my friend Mike I said listen when I leave, I don't know what the reason is. I said we need to make sure that you check on your brother because something bad is going to happen today I don't know what it is just make sure you check your
brother and just trust me on this. Just take my word, please.
So 25 minutes after I left the house. My friend Mike ends up getting up off his bed to go get another beer. Once you go walk past his brother room realize that there's no more yelling on the phone. So he's like, wait a minute, let me just check on my brother like
(57:39):
Anthony said, and all of a sudden he goes knocks on the door, he doesn't hear anything he puts his ear on the door, and he hears gargling noises so he kicks the door open because the door was locked and his brother had overdose on two bags of heroin.
He puts fentanyl in it, and he ended up saving his brother's life and his brother ends up living because he ended up getting to him in time and everything. And he called me up freaking out he's like I will never doubt you ever again whenever you tell me something like that and all stuff and it's happened three different times where I've been able to have this premonition come over me right before something happens.
(58:12):
One time was with my father, and I was literally in the car with him he was driving and he ended up seizing in the car while we're driving and we started just going across the road. And I knew exactly what to do like the voice already told me what to do is to take his foot off the gas after kicking in neutral, and then take just holding the wheel steering to the side of the road to the car comes to a complete stop and have my friend in the back who was in the back and 911 and luckily my dad was saved too but you know it's these weird moments that I just can't explain that I, you know, I write
(58:42):
it down I say, but it's like I you know it's hard to do it right in that moment you know.
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's very interesting that that happens. I think you're the door to the other side is still a little bit open.
You have contact with it you. Maybe you can even heal people. I don't know but it's, it's also some some of the after effects that I heard. Wow. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing.
(59:12):
I would love to have you come on again and you wouldn't mind because we have so much more I'd love to talk about what's nice to be here with you with all of them.
Definitely I would love to have you come on again and you would love to.
Very nice. All right, so I'm definitely well thank you so much for your time Bob I truly appreciate you for all that you do and keep please doing what you're doing.
Your work is amazing. I can't wait to get your book I'm gonna let you know how it is for sure.
(59:36):
I will. People can access my email my website, and they can ask questions there. And it's Bob copas.com. That's easy. There's a form where people can get questions for me if they want to.
Well, I think AJ should mail it to you to get autograph.
(59:57):
100% 100% you know it. For sure. But Bob thank you so much for your time on one once again just shout out the name of your book where they can find it at.
And, you know, we'll let you go for the day so.
Yeah, it's impressions of near death experiences at amazon.com or yeah, it's Amazon, where you can find it.
(01:00:21):
Awesome. Awesome. Well thank you so much Bob I truly appreciate your time.
Thank you. Thank you for having me on your show wonderful thank you. Thank you have a great day my friend.
Hold on one second brother.
Sorry, I gotta change the layout working on my phone here. There we go.
(01:00:44):
Got it. So man, what do you think brother I thought this was an absolutely amazing podcast that we need to have we had to have this episode, we've had on actually now that I remember it actually we actually talked to Kathy McDaniel.
Believe it or not when I first saw the book I thought of someone else's name and then once you said Kathy name I remember Kathy, and we've actually talked to Kathy Kathy's an amazing woman that he works with, and her new experience is pretty wild like he said and,
(01:01:10):
you know, what how she got out of it was absolutely wild. And just these near death experiences then what do you think of them.
Did you know I feel grateful like I haven't actually been dead, you know, but I've come so close to it like, like, I don't know, I don't know what the thing I mean all the research that I've done.
(01:01:31):
You know, I believe that we're all energy. And once our energy leaves this cocoon or whatever. You know, I honestly believe we start over if our lesson wasn't learned you know, that's what I believe.
No, absolutely man. Absolutely. You know like everyone's leaving different you know but I tell you from what I experienced there's just, it's just a knowing now you know what I mean it's no longer I believe it's that I know you know what I mean like it's not like a knowing that
(01:01:59):
your copy know like oh I know everything that's happening there's no I don't know it's just enough to tilt the scale a little bit from my feet is knowing it's no longer a ballooning you know what I mean that's what I'm trying to say.
Well, but um you know I absolutely love this this um this is a great guest. I love to have them on again. Oh my god. I mean it was amazing. I mean, the fact like when he was talking about different people's experiences, and like I thought it was really fascinating how different people saw different things
(01:02:28):
in their experiences based on like their religious background or their cultural beliefs that I don't know that is amazing to me.
Yeah, I want to thank everybody for tuning in. This was a great show and I hope you all enjoyed it. I know Julie stayed with us the whole time so thank you Julie. Yeah, thank you.
(01:02:49):
Thank you guys so much. Thank you everyone else who watches and who listens on Spotify, Apple podcasts and all the other podcasts podcast listening platforms.
If you're not there, follow us you can find all our episodes on there. We truly appreciate everybody. Thank you for watching. And until next time I'm AJ Capasso this is my girlfriend Tammy and this is Jonathan Kiewer.
(01:03:11):
We are talking with the source later.
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