Creating the design for the GWOT veterans’ memorial

The design for the Global War on Terrorism Memorial will incorporate the stories of those most closely affected including veterans, their families, Gold Star Families and other military members. Kengo Kuma, who was named one of Time's 100 Most Influential People, and Balázs Bognár from Kengo Kuma and Associates are the lead designers in the memorial to honor and memorialize GWOT veterans. They explain the design process, their vision and more for the project that will result in the memorial dedication in Washington, D.C. This episode, hosted by Army veteran Jennifer Ballou, is the second in the initial six-part special series produced by The American Legion.

Episode Transcript

(00:19):
Hello and welcome to the Global War on Terrorism Memorial
Podcast hosted by the American Legion.
I'm your host, Jennifer Ballou, and it is my honor to welcome
you home today. We are joined by Kingo Kuma and
Balaj Bognar from Kingo Kuma andAssociates.

(00:40):
The G Watt Memorial Foundation is fortunate to have them
leading our design team for the memorial.
Kumasan, along with his team, isknown for his poetic use of
water, which brings a sense of tranquility and quietness that
is ideal for this space of hope and healing.

(01:01):
Named one of Time's Most 100 Most Influential People in 2021,
Kumasan has LED design for some of the world's most famous
buildings, including the Japan National Stadium in Tokyo, the
VNA Dundee Museum in Scotland, and the Rolex Building in
Dallas, TX. With offices around the world,

(01:24):
Kumasan and his team will bring a global perspective to the
memorial to appropriately reflect the global nature of the
Global War on Terrorism. Kumasan and Balaj welcome home.
It's great to be home. It feels really good.
Thank you for that. Yes.
Thank you very much. Yes, thank you for being here.

(01:46):
So if it's OK with you gentlemen, I'd like to begin by
just quickly explaining to our audience that there was a
process to get to where we are today with you leading our
design team. And essentially what happened is
a request was sent out to many architects across the world that

(02:10):
this project was going to be happening.
And if you so chose, you could submit to be considered to be
the designer of the Global War on Terrorism Memorial.
Can you explain why you chose tosubmit to design this memorial?

(02:31):
Yeah, as as we think that memorial is very important not
only for Americans, it's important for the global,
globally this is one of the mostimportant projects nowadays and
location has, it is very speciallocation, the important location

(02:53):
and so forth. Philosophy behind the monument
is fitting the philosophy of us and it is fitting with what we
have been working last 50 years.There's almost a sense of
purity, purity to that kind of an honor in a way.
And it's a chance to help tell stories that maybe normally

(03:15):
don't get to have that opportunity.
And a little, just a little sidenote there, my mentor, she's the
lead of the Paris office. She was the one who pursued it.
So actually, I unfortunately didn't have that involvement in
the beginning. And as you probably well know,
the circumstances ended up that that we were the ones who who

(03:36):
after a bit of a process were the ones to fit.
And I'm, I'm obviously really hugely grateful for the way that
that all came together. Absolutely, we we are so
grateful as well from the very first time that that we met you
all, it was just a perfect fit and we just couldn't be more
grateful to be working together.You mentioned stories, Balaj.

(04:00):
And so again for the listeners, some of the stories that Bellaj
may be referring to are stories that Kumasan and Bellaj have
heard from our design Advisory Council.
So our design Advisory Council is made-up of 23 men and women
who represent the groups of people that the memorial will

(04:21):
honor. So we have Gold Star spouses,
Gold Star children, uniformed wearing veterans, non uniformed
wearing veterans, family members.
All of those groups of people are represented on the Design
Advisory Council. And our President and CEO,
Michael Rodriguez, sat down witheach of those 23 people and had

(04:47):
a conversation about why this memorial is so meaning to
meaningful to them. How has the global war on
terrorism shaped their lives? And your team Kumasan has either
listened to these conversations in person or via video.

(05:07):
And I'm wondering what it was like for you all to listen to
these stories. There's a great composition with
them and there's A and the composition is the basis of our
desire always. And as I learn many things from
them and as as I want, I want togive as a give shape as A to

(05:33):
that, as a based on that conversation.
The learning from them is is basically as that memorial is
not only as a for as a, as a place, it is a memorial is for
everybody in the world and everybody is watching what we

(05:56):
can realize on that place and ashow to create peace over the war
on terrorism is is very much connected with future of us and
as that is the biggest learning from them.
Yeah, that's a great comment from Kumar San because embedded
in there, I don't know if you picked that up, but we, we start

(06:17):
our design process with a conversation.
And in this case, the reinforcement there, and this is
probably really unusual for our listeners to understand, is that
we, on our team, we began this process by listening.
We didn't even say anything. And this the, I know we're
calling them stories, but in reality, there are experiences
of people there and they're really varied.

(06:37):
And the, the shocking part aboutit is that they're so moving.
And you have to try to understand in the range of of
20, you're right. There were, you know, part of
these were in person, part of these were recorded for
practicality because we went through hours and hours of, of
recording and just taking notes before we even laid pen to
paper, which is a sort of weird thing to to kind of recognize.

(07:00):
But what that does is we say, look, No2 experiences are the
same. There's incredibly incredible
depth and range. And that goes also to the
generations that you had mentioned that the Gold Star
families, the kids there all theway to those who have already
who've already kind of concludedtheir service and and maybe are
involved in their own ways. It's a huge range and it's hard

(07:22):
to fathom as somebody who is on the civilian side of the
community to, to just understandthe impacts.
And while that will never put mein anybody's shoes, it's, it's
good to just listen. And I've got to tell you, I know
we shared these notes when we were talking kind of more
informally throughout this wholeprocess, but it's, it's an
emotional ride. And I, I had to watch some of

(07:45):
them on my own. You, you, it's just I, there's,
there's, you know, some of them we tried to watch as a team.
We had the, and I hate to admit this out loud, but we had a box
of tissues just in case anybody,we were trying not to be judging
or anything like that. Like you know, you just just no
way to understand fully. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
When Rod, our our President and CEO, when Rod had this vision of

(08:07):
creating this design Advisory Council, it was just like you
described to allow the design team to hear these stories
before they even pick, before you even picked up your pens or
pencils and started writing or sketching to inspire what it is
that you eventually designed. So can you talk a little bit

(08:30):
more about how those experiencesthat the Design Advisory Council
shared with you, how did they inspire your vision for the
memorial? By the the conversation with
them, I I learned the the the depths and the and the real

(08:55):
meaning the the behind the the war on terrorism.
I was very much moved by the thetalk and by their voice.
And as the voice itself is, is has moved me very much.
And as I, I want to create something as a as a base on

(09:22):
their own and their voice as A and as a.
That process is very different from normal design process of
US, yeah. And to expand on that for you,
Jen, just a little bit, that sense of voice is an interesting
paradox because every single oneof those people we heard from
would probably be the first to say we don't really want the
spotlight to be on us. And that resonates with us very

(09:44):
clearly. And at the same time, we find it
incredibly valuable and very important to be able to do just
that, to put focus on some meaningful aspect of what has
come before and what's going on still to this day.
So what that means in really kind of dryer practical terms is
we tried to find the commonalities just by writing

(10:04):
down keywords in these lists andthey sort of gravitated towards
a series of of terms which hopefully will will come to
light sooner before than than later.
But that sort of gave us a senseof, well, what does that mean in
experiential terms? What does that do?
How does that translate over to design or architecture?
We start out by saying, well, wedon't really quite know, but we

(10:27):
can start with what we've heard.We start with those experiences.
We start with trying to understand first.
It's really, really challenging.And I'm saying that because we
couldn't pack in more than a couple of of these recordings
or, or in person listening sessions in a day because it's
you cannot do it. It's it's just too much to try
to process. Right.

(10:48):
Yeah, that makes sense. And and on that note that the
global war on terrorism is deeply personal, like we're
alluding to here, like we're saying, but it's also broadly
international. How did you find yourself
balancing representing both individual sacrifices with the

(11:11):
collective experience of the Global War on Terrorism?
Individually as a, As a was verymoved as a by, as a party, as a
voices, but as a we should shareas a, my feeling to everybody.
So that is a real goal of monument as a, as a, as a.

(11:35):
We try to as a create as a, as amonument, as a, as a, as a with
the, as a quiet shape and as a, with the material and especially
the water is very important. And as by using that kind of

(11:57):
natural material. So I want to as a share as a as
a with everybody. That's a really good one too,
because, and I might cue in Kumasan's personal connection to
all this, but it's what you're asking is a really tricky one
because everybody will connect to this in their own way and

(12:17):
everybody's involved in their own way.
And yet when we talk about shared experience, there are
some things that hopefully kind of gravitate towards the
universal. So when Kumasan is talking about
water or materiality, that there's a way where we all are
experiencing that and it's trying to reflect all of the
different kind of keywords and some of the experiences we've

(12:38):
heard. Hopefully that will kind of we
weave it all together into an experience that we can all find
in a kind of a shared moment. And that not to sort of push it
too hard, but I I realized that,you know, we all kind of the way
that the global War on Terror sort of daylighted was, was the

(12:59):
September 11. And I'm only raising that
because Kumasan has a very personal connection to that as,
as do I. But you know, those, those
personal stories hopefully are not the specific focus of what
it is we're doing together, but that we that they're part right
and some of the design elements and you're reflected in through

(13:19):
their way, people interpret it and so forth.
Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned that every
experience will be different. That being said, what kind of
emotional journey do you anticipate visitors will have
when they go to the memorial? As the visitors as a as a as a

(13:47):
wheel have the very is a quiet experience in that mountain
memorial. And as the memorial itself is
not super high building, it is not super high as a monument.
It is merging to the emolument and the water is a protagonist

(14:10):
of the memorial and the waters reflect everything.
Water reflects sky, reflects clouds and by the compensation
with waters, the gas can go to their own experience deeply.
And that is the the, the basic, the, the philosophy behind the,

(14:35):
the memorial. Those are really great notes,
especially since they also probably are are kind of see it
sort of a in a, in a varied way from there where I realized that
visitors including myself will probably fall into two general
camps. Those have been very directly
affected and those who probably have have seen it or understood
it from the sidelines. And I would love for people to

(14:59):
understand both the raw power that it's taken to enjoy the
kinds of things that we do at home in the US, But the other is
a sense of, of it's a mixture ofawe and gratitude, I suppose.
I would love for those people who have been in service and for
the, the families who've been affected to feel seen and heard

(15:20):
in some way. And I, I don't know, we can't
really necessarily presume that that's going to be a week.
And we can't say, hey, we've designed this so you're going to
feel that. But it's, it's our hope that
there is a sense of, of respect and, and being thankful and for
those who, of us who are on the civilian side of things, that
we, we are the beneficiaries of actions that we will probably

(15:44):
never see. And so this is a way that some
of that becomes visible. Maybe it's a chance to invite
people to exchange their experiences there on site.
It's, it's a War Memorial, it's a warrior memorial.
It's, yeah, it's, it's a chance to be human together.
I don't know how else to say that, you know, And it's, it's,

(16:05):
it's in the current moment that we are, we are living our lives
together. And and it's good to be able to
see each other for that. Yeah, chance to be human
together, that is just extremelypowerful.
The global war on terrorism continues today, so you are
designing a War Memorial for an ongoing war, and I'm wondering

(16:30):
if there has been anything challenging about that
particular piece that you might be able to comment on.
We as a, as A and should be connected together again as A
and as A and as. Now the as the situations, as

(16:55):
political situations and as the global situation is very
complex, but we need to be connected again.
And that monument is is the monument is of connection,
reconnection of apps and as and we should not divide the people,

(17:19):
so so we should connect to the fighter again together or on
them as on television and as a this is a important goal of this
moment. It's sort of hard to follow that
one. You don't.
Have to, yeah, it's really well said from from Kumasan.

(17:41):
Maybe we'll at that if you feel like I need to add anything.
No, no that. Thank you so much for that,
Kumasan. Kumasan, you often speak about
architecture's ability to heal, and as you know, heal is one of
the tenants of the Global War onTerrorism Memorial Foundation.

(18:03):
How do you both hope that this memorial contributes to healing
for those who visit? Yeah, as as as the platonic
surfaces of waters is the centreof the memorial is there and as
as a combined with greens and there's some natural materials

(18:24):
and the through is composition with the material as a as a as a
we will be healed. And as it is most important
function of the building as A and as a, as a, as A and as a,
we as are living in the very difficult period and the as a

(18:48):
memorial of our period should asa heal as all of us.
I love, I love hearing Kumasan talk and I'm, I'm forgive me
for, for, you know, saying that out loud, but I, I, one of the
nice things about being in, in architecture or being a designer
is that you're in service of other people.
And we try to use what we do to the best of our ability.

(19:11):
And in this case, it's for a very special group of people
who've been affected in ways that currently ongoing.
I know that this is sort of parking back to the previous
question, but this is maybe tiedtogether.
Our service to to you all in thecommunity is to help you feel
seen and heard, at least to havea place to call home.
And I love that you open the podcast in that way.

(19:34):
And and hopefully you'll feel that hopefully it will will be
in there somewhere. But it is a very unusual
memorial because it's not tryingto remember something in the
past. And so if we're not remembering,
what are we doing? We are, we are acknowledging we
are putting something front and center and none of us really

(19:55):
chose it in that way. But because we are here
together. And what Kumasan has been saying
about the the need to heal, the need to be united, the need to
be together feels like a really great and honorable chance that
we have in front of us. And and that's probably the best
I can answer to that. Yeah, yeah.

(20:17):
And I mean, on that note, we we've talked a little bit
briefly here and there about, you know, the future generation.
What when people visit this memorial decades from now,
because you are designing, we'rebuilding a piece of it will it's

(20:37):
history. It will be there forever.
What do you hope future generations understand about
this chapter in history? Yeah.
So for, for, for us as September11th, just yesterday was a very,

(21:01):
very still very realistic. But As for future generations,
as a, as a as a, we need to share our special experiments
with them as A and as a that they can lead as a book so that
they can lead as they can see that video or films.

(21:23):
But the reality of the September11th and they should be shared
by the real experience that thismonument is a monument for
sharing experience. And as a that is the key point
of this design. That's, that's absolutely right,

(21:44):
because in a lot of ways, what we're trying to do is to provide
the catalyst for sharing those stories to keep those
experiences alive and clear and important, despite the fact that
many of them are very difficult to talk about.
But if we don't talk about them,then, then we will be in a
recurring pattern. I also would love for future

(22:06):
generations that includes my, mydaughters and you know, and all,
all the kids who have been affected.
They have a way to carry forwardin a very real and meaningful
way that they have a chance to talk about it long after, you
know, we 3 on screen, long afterthe the audience here listening
to us, long after they're gone. We we will only have mattered

(22:26):
because we're sort of setting this forward.
But no, you know, the names and places will sort of fold into a
a bigger tapestry. But I would love for I would
love for the generations to cometo see this as as vital,
important. It's it's not just about it, let
me put it in positive here. It's about it's about hope, it's
about humanity. It's about strength that we've

(22:48):
got that as part of us. And I, I that would be amazing
if, if we can, you know, we won't be around for that to be
to be felt. But you know, maybe we've, we've
done some good initial steps, I hope.
Oh, I, I know you have Kumasan and Balaj and you know, when

(23:08):
this podcast episode airs, the design will not be public just
yet, but it, it will be soon. It will be very soon.
But I, I do believe that our listeners hearing and, or maybe
watching and seeing the, the passion, the, the heartfelt love

(23:36):
that you both have for this project, it is very clear.
It's very clear. Just, you know, hearing you
describe the memorial as hope, humanity, strength, the chance
to be humans together. I also wrote connected again,

(24:00):
Kumasan said. All of these wonderful examples
that you gave in your answers just clearly demonstrate that
you are the right people to be designing our memorial, our
home, and and we're just so grateful for you both.
Before we wrap up, I'm wonderingif there's anything else that

(24:26):
you want to share with our listeners today?
Today, not as not as the time toshow those images, but images
maybe is is not showing the whole experience.
I I want to share the reality with with you all.

(24:47):
And the reality is, is will havethe strong powers especially in
this design and that this designis go beyond the shape, the go
beyond the beauty. It is very much related with our
heart and as this is a point of these designs, I want to say is

(25:13):
that is the most important part is the share the the reality
with your heart. That's so beautifully said.
And maybe to add to that, because, you know, we, we're on
screen for a short time with, with you, the audience, and
we're sort of the tip of the iceberg and we're surrounded by

(25:33):
incredible members of, of the community of your community.
And the, I don't know if I wouldbe able to say similar beautiful
things other than to say when I,you know, when I first met the
CEO, Michael Rod Rodriguez, likeI said, I've got no, I, I, I
don't, I don't know how we couldbe worthy of this, But I, you

(25:56):
know, you all are so kind and saying where the, the right fit.
I hope we do right by you all. It's, it's a, it's a huge deal
to be part of this. We're a small part of it, but
it's a huge deal. And, and we, we have a long way
to go with the process ahead of us.
So, you know, we, we will entrust our, our teammates to,
to share with you the work that we've all been doing together.

(26:16):
But, but we're very excited. This is incredibly important.
This is probably a, a moment of a lifetime for generations to
come. And and you know, it's, it's
again, hope, hopefully this is something we'll be able to share
together. Absolutely.
And again, Kumasan and Balaji, welcome home.
We're so grateful for you both. And to our listeners, I, I

(26:39):
really hope that you have enjoyed this conversation.
If you have, please like, subscribe and even maybe drop a
rating on this show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
We'll be back here next week. Until then, I'm Jennifer Balu.
Thank you. Thank you for having us.

(27:03):
Welcome Home is produced by Jennifer Blum, Holly Soria and
me. Jennifer Blue, our operations
manager, is Henry Howard. Art for Welcome Home is by
Minerva Consulting. Our theme, A place like Home is
by Bergenson Lunberg via Epidemic.
Sound mixing and editing is by Jennifer Blum.

(27:24):
Thank you to Tal Podcast and theAmerican Legion for their
collaboration on this inaugural series.
You can find their episodes, guests, and more at legion.org
slash Tal. You can find out more about the
Global War on Terrorism MemorialFoundation, get updates on the

(27:44):
National War Memorial, and learnhow you can get involved by
following us on your favorite social media platforms or by
visiting GWOT Memorial foundation.org.