September 10, 2025 • 44 mins
Veterans and transitioning servicemembers often face challenges when seeking civilian careers.
Brian Marchegiani, co-founder of Mack Brothers Elevator, found his calling in the skilled labor field. But he does more than elevator repair. He gives back to the veteran community, providing jobs for former military members and military families. In fact, for this business owner, mentorship isn’t optional, it’s a force multiplier.
Learn more about this entrepreneur success story, how to apply his expertise to landing a job in the skilled trades and more in the third episode of Veteran Entrepreneurs, a special four-part series from The American Legion Tango Alpha Lima podcast.
Special Guest: Brian Marchegiani.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Spotlight Veterans Entrepreneurship, a special
series from the American LegionsTal podcast.
I'm your host, Ashley Gorbulcha.In each episode, we sit down
with a veteran or military spouse entrepreneur who is
leading the charge across different industries.
We will explore the challenges, breakthroughs, and real stories
(00:21):
behind building a business during and after military
service. Today we're joined with Brian
Mark Ajani, President of Mac Brothers Elevator and U.S.
Army veteran, who served five years with the elite 75th Ranger
Regiment, including two deployments to Afghanistan.
After transitioning out of the military, Brian applied his
discipline, tactical mindset, and drive for excellence to
(00:43):
launch a specialized elevator repair company based in Vermont.
He's also an active member of American Legion Post 29, helping
sustain veteran community life in one of the smallest towns in
state. Brian, welcome to the Tango Off
Lima podcast. Thank you for having me.
Of course, we're super excited. I'm excited to get into all the
(01:04):
ups and the downs of your business.
Yeah, we knew that was coming. Be prepared, I have plenty of
corny jokes. I am from the Midwest, so I
fantastic. So what I like to do is I like
to split things into themes because I am that kind of nerd.
And so we're going to kind of cover 5 different topics.
(01:25):
And so the first I want to discuss is from service to
elevators, right? So the origin story.
What inspired you to take the leap into elevator repair after
your time in the service? So it kind of all started out
and something I've always kind of hit on with folks that get
(01:46):
out of the service because you kind of feel like a little
overwhelmed with with the, you know, the plate that's in front
of you. So you kind of do what I like to
call, I think a lot of guys who come out, especially in the, you
know, 11 Bravos, which the infantry or spec OPS or
anything, and you have this idealistic gun dream that you're
(02:08):
going to find chasing the gun dream, as they call it.
So you know, you, you look for certain aspects that may be as
close to humanly possible as to what you dealt with in the
service. So the first thing I did was
went and worked for a company out in California called Gavin
Day Becker, which is a close protection firm for numerous
(02:30):
parties. And, and again, it's, you know,
you kind of have to just take a step back and look at the
characteristics that built builtyou up as a person and utilize
those. But it's the most comfortable to
find something that is so closely related to the training
mindset. So I tried that for a short
(02:51):
amount of time and it wasn't doing it because I don't think
there is going to be a, a 5050 marker where you can have the
same amount of camaraderie and tactics and things that kind of
really gave you interest in the 1st place and being in any
community, not just spec OPS in the military.
And you know, you got to have a couple of failed attempts and I
(03:14):
think a lot of guys get discouraged after that point.
So then before I had flown out and moved everything across the
country, I had done an interviewfor the IUEC be through my my
stepfather, who was also a veteran, and he said, just just
do the interview. It can't hurt.
So we got to talking. I did the interview as I'm out
(03:36):
in California, I get the phone call.
They're like, hey, you know, you, you're up on the list.
You passed the interview. Everything went great.
Your resume was awesome. And I was already there, you
know, chasing that gun dream andand I lost a little bit of time
when I could have started even sooner.
But then again, it just hit me one day.
I said, look, I used to grew up mechanically, electrically very
(03:58):
involved. So it was something that kept my
mind busy. And I think that's a lot of
problems, a lot of problems thatstem from the way we suffer is
this high tempo with wherever, whatever unit you were with and
that camaraderie. So you have to find something
that's closely going to match itand you can take your character
(04:18):
growth and apply it to you the same way, but it almost has to
be a completely different tractor of your life, in my
opinion, for you to really, for you really to do well.
So I, I got the phone call on, Ithink it was a Tuesday, at which
time I said I will, I'll take it.
(04:39):
So the, luckily the supervisor Ihad at the time was like, you
don't need to hand in two weeks or whatever.
So I essentially cashed in everything, sold everything,
drove across the country throughthe 4th of July and I showed up
here last Thursday, showed got here, got back home on Sunday
and I was working for the elevator trade that Monday
(05:02):
morning. So it's kind of a that's that in
itself is that don't look beforeyou leap.
I think is also a great, it can be great and it can be not
great, but I don't think anybodywould have done that without a
background. That's like, you know, trust
your instincts, trust your gut and and go for it because, you
know, I just felt the right thing to do and I knew I, I had
(05:23):
already checked all my blocks with chasing that gun dream.
So that's how I got started. So they used the Helmets to hard
Hats program, which really makesit streamline for veterans.
And that was huge because there's a big waiting list.
It's a very difficult trade to get into.
A lot of qualifications and training is needed.
But that's how I got started. And you know, if you were to
(05:44):
conclude that it would be AII just made the realization that
if I took what I learned as a Ranger and being my time in the
military and almost applied it to a completely different
category, it you know, it was itwas it was almost like a no lose
scenario was capable because theguys are so motivated and so
smart. And what you learn about
(06:05):
yourself, you don't know thyselfwhen you're in the service,
especially in a unit like that, that there's very little that's
going to stop you when you put your mind to something.
But chasing that gun dream is something that I personally
think a lot of guys do. I did it various, various
things, looking at contracting and security and all that.
(06:27):
And I had to have that realization one day and you
know, and say to myself, you know, just take the same mindset
that made you a Ranger and applyit to a trade, a blue collar
trade essentially. So that's how I get started.
That's fantastic. I, I love the way that you've,
you know, you've pivoted the, the paradigm, right?
(06:47):
Like you understood at your corewhat was important to you and
how to apply that into the trades?
Because I think right now we're in a time and space where
there's a lot of blue collar andwhite collar jobs.
And we've put so much emphasis for a long time on like going,
we'll, we'll, we'll say traditional routes.
And so it is very common for folks to get out, especially in
(07:10):
high tempo regiments, Your company's, you know, whatever
job occupation you had, regardless of branch, if you're
used to that, you want to stay in something similar.
So for you to kind of pivot and be like, I'm going to lean back
on some of my experience in electric and mechanics, but also
apply all of my core ethos and what I've been doing for a long
(07:32):
time into something different, right?
If you took a leap, a lot of people are nervous to do that or
it it looks too cumbersome. It's nerve wracking.
It is just getting out is nerve wracking, you know, and it feels
like the right thing to do at the time.
And then all you do is you just miss the guys everyday.
Like I miss, you know, I miss the camaraderie, I miss
everything. And then you search for that,
(07:54):
that recreated feeling. And I think a lot of guys don't
find it, which is why I think you have a lot of, you know,
veterans that deal with even worse depression and, and even
worse, you know, characteristicsbecause it's just, I think you
have, you just have to be aware enough to sit down and just me
have a meeting with somebody, best friend, wife, girlfriend,
(08:16):
husband, whatever, and just break it down like that, you
know, But that, that was a big one.
That was the largest, most successful move I made at that
time. I had, like I said, travelled
across the country, stopped, didthis, did that, had a few weeks
to get out there, really learnedwho I was.
And that's when I made the decision when I was in
(08:37):
California to come back and, and, and just put everything I
had into it. I'm so proud of you.
It's incredibly inspiring. It really is.
I mean, there's a lot of folks who have a really hard time
taking the hard left and sometimes they opt into the easy
right. And that easy right sometimes
leads you down a path that is OKfor the short term.
(08:57):
But what you've done in that hard left is you made the long
term strategic. I'm going to do this for the
betterment of myself. And you're right, when we talk
about community as a military connect community, there's
something, there's something missing.
And it sounds like as you were building your business in the
trades, and we'll kind of lean into the second question here
(09:19):
is, you know, as you're buildingyour business into the trades,
what were some of the biggest challenges of breaking into this
specialized industry? And how did you kind of like
take some of those lessons learned from your past and apply
them to what's carrying? Absolutely.
You know, it is generally a, it's a difficult industry to get
into because it is very small. It is a specialized trade.
(09:42):
There's no protection of the trade.
It it's just a, it's just rare. It's rare to get in.
I and I had an Ave. and I capitalized on it.
But the hellman's the hard hats thing.
It's it's huge. The program is massive for
veterans. It it, you know, it's almost so
I've met with numerous officialsfrom the IUEC and the, and the
(10:03):
local in regards to some of themare, you know, their, their sole
task is to focus on veterans benefits that are in in there.
And the gentleman we obviously met through is the same on a
more regional basis. And the biggest, biggest
challenges is I would say one ofthem right off the bat is if
you're interested in something. And, and the reason why the
(10:24):
elevator trade, I think collectsa lot of people's interests is
you do so much in, in one trade,you do so much of the other
trades in it. So the welding, the plumbing,
the electrical work, the rigging, the fabrication.
So it's all in there. So if you're a really busy body,
like like a, you know, a former Army Ranger probably is, and
we'll call it ADDADHD or just being a really, you know, a
(10:48):
really motivated dude or gal forthat matter, you need to keep
your brain busy. You absolutely need to get your,
keep your brain busy. So first, so I start out as a
probationary apprentice and these are the challenges, right?
So, you know, I wasn't the, I was the average soldier when I
(11:08):
was at Ranger Battalion. You know, I didn't I I wasn't
the guy that was, you know, award bound, but I also wasn't I
was, I was, I was standard. You know, I was achieving the
standard in doing my job as a teammate.
But you're still a Ranger, right?
So then you have to go and listen to somebody that tell
(11:30):
give you, you know, give you directions and tell you how to
do something and tell you did itwrong.
That has no idea. This is the other massive
struggle. You know, you went from the top
of the food chain to taking instructions from somebody who
has, you know, doesn't understand the, I wouldn't say
like sacrifices in a sad way. But the amount of work it took
(11:51):
to get to that point of being passing these courses and
selections and working as a teamand jumping out of planes and,
and being, being a good teammateunder gunfire, so to speak.
And then you have to go and listen to somebody whose life
probably hasn't achieved. It's possible you're going to be
hooked up with somebody as a helper or in a probationary
(12:13):
apprentice that hasn't seen or done a fraction of what some of
these guys have done who have 8 deployments, 10 deployments.
You know, I had two. And I think that was the perfect
amount of exposure to what I sawto still stay in the this zone
where I could look one way and look the other.
(12:34):
But it was a struggle, and the struggle is you have to take
instructions from somebody. But we deal with that.
I think in a national crisis right now with young guys and
guys and girls going into a trade or anything like that,
that are entitled. And like I was young and
entitled. So like if I had the knowledge I
have now, 10 years later, I would have gone back in time and
(12:57):
said, hey, man, just take the instructions.
Things are going to work out. It's just a part of the process.
It's just like going to a selection course to become a
green Beret or a Ranger or a seal.
Like you're going to deal with amultitude of things you don't
enjoy for extended periods of time.
Sometimes time time limits that you don't even know exist.
You just have to do it for undisclosed amount of time and
(13:19):
distance. And the same applies to dealing
with these folks that may not see eye to eye with you.
And that's one of the hardest things.
But I know as a as the IUEC and the local have been really
emphasizing on this at that point, because you're the future
of the workforce is only as goodas how you train them and bring
them up. So biggest hurdle making that
(13:40):
transition. And if I was to potentially
conclude it and do a like a topic paragraph is you have to
go from the top of the food chain back down to listen to
somebody who's not even in the same category of food chains.
That's difficult for anybody to do so, but you got to just like
when you got into the service again, know thyself.
(14:01):
You know, you have to, you have to just put your time in.
It'll all come out in the wash. It just, it just stinks to have
to hit the reset button after you just spent the last five
1015 years maturing your career as any anybody in any MOS in the
military. Understood.
Yeah, it's, it's very humbling, right.
(14:23):
And I think particularly with the the veteran military
connected community, we have what I like to call we've, we've
lived an entire lifetime in a short, short span.
Like I commonly am, like I feel like I've lived an entire life
in a decade even with my own service.
So I like to think of that in a broader concept for a lot of
(14:45):
folks in our community and how starting over is scary.
And it sounds like, well, you were, you know, moving into this
very specialized industry, you were able to recognize that 1/2
against self-awareness is very, very important here.
And also having like empathy to understand that the folks that
(15:06):
you're now being trained by don't really fully understand
the the scope of things that you've done.
And so it challenges you on an entirely different level.
And so. Yeah, I just, and one caveat to
that is, you know, I think beingintellectual, intelligent is
something people may, you know, I think in order to be all
(15:30):
knowing intellectual and intelligent, you have to be able
to see that, you know, some people go around and, you know,
they may boast that they're verysmart and they might have a very
high success rate with certain things.
But I think what really takes you into the next category is
having the ability as a former veteran or getting out of the
service. And I know they could do these
(15:50):
teachings. I know they could tell everybody
this and then soldiers getting out and just say, you know, if
the first step to success is an intellect and all knowing this
is you know, you have to identify those situations as
you're presented, as they're presented to you.
And you can ruin your reputationin any blue collar trade off
(16:12):
your first two weeks of behaviorthat you're there.
So if you can just tell yourselfand just save your mind.
I'm I'm just basic training again.
I did it once, I'll do it again or it's selection for to become
a green beret. Like I just, I'm just gonna have
to knock it out and do it again.But once you, you'll, you know,
the, I want the expectations forsomebody like that and how
(16:34):
quickly you can achieve success.If you just put your nose down
and, and, and grind, you'll get there so much faster because
again, know thyself. Like we know what we've put
ourselves through. We know what our limits are and
we know we can just push and to get to the finish line and
potentially blow by the competition or whatever the case
(16:56):
may be. It's like, you know, use, use
that to, you know, kind of adaptand grow and know before you get
into the situation and there's something disappointing coming,
but it's only for a short periodof time.
In life, everything seems to be temporary.
It's kind of a mindset. I've reacted over the past few
years. It's just, it's just another
(17:17):
one. It'll be fine.
Can't last, can't last forever. Sir can't last forever.
To take with you as if you get into that probationary phase
anywhere in any trade. Absolutely.
So with where you've started, itsounds like between workforce
leadership and mentorship, I feel like you've had some really
awesome folks in your corner that have provided you with this
(17:42):
mentorship, especially leaning into the trades now.
Like are you still in touch withsome of the folks that have
trained you? Obviously you've you've gone
into starting your own business and working in this field, but
you know, what's kind of your approach to hiring, training in
the trade that's often underserved?
(18:03):
Yeah, so I, I do keep in contactwith some and this is a good
line that I, I like to use when,when I talk about this and
people ask me, should I stay in longer?
Should I get out? And you know, it's some, some
people need the army and the army needs some people.
And that just is a general in the military.
(18:23):
So some people need the structure.
It's less to think about, you know, and they're good at it and
they're disciplined and that's where they want to be.
And those people, if they know that at the bottom of their
hearts, they should be staying, they should be staying and they
should be putting their time in.You got to try to go to school
where you're in. But on the on the flip side,
like I said, some people need the Army and the Army need some
(18:45):
people. So I said that, Right, right.
Yes, so right, so so it it's just one of those things like I
saw enough of what I needed to see to mature my character to
the point where I could, you know, staying longer would have
been it wouldn't have helped. It wouldn't have expanded what I
(19:06):
had found anymore. It still would have been a very
formidable and respectable thingto stay in and serve the
country. But it's just, it, something
weird hit me about it. And, and that's, that's when I,
I, I had cut the, cut the line off at, at my first enlistment
because I knew I could do more on the outside with what they
(19:29):
exposed me, my, and my characterto so that I could really,
really sore on the outside. I, I, I didn't know the
terminology for that, but I could feel it, you know, I, I
knew something, I, I, I wouldn'tbe able to achieve what I wanted
to achieve. And there was a second question
(19:49):
I'd like you to answer. It no, no, I, I'm, I'm curious,
so having, having transitioned out, what have your, what has
your mentorship been like now that you're in the like elevator
industry? Obviously it's what you mean,
she said. It's hard to get into.
Have there been folks who have been able to help you?
Are there groups, affiliations and different things like that?
(20:15):
Yeah. So basically when I got in
originally, they had an actual mentorship program and we, I
think they disbanded it up to this point because I don't think
it was achieving, you know, checking all the blocks the way
they wanted to. But now we're getting back into
it. You essentially, that's what's
(20:36):
another attractive thing for especially spec OPS guys, but
any any military branch whatsoever.
But you know, you essentially goaround especially because if
you're not a non licensed probationary apprentice or
apprentice or first year or whatever, you're not allowed to
work on equipment without a license.
So you're in a team, right? There's that camaraderie and
(20:58):
that team thing, so you build a relationship with that person
and hopefully they're good to you and they're knowledgeable.
That's your mentor. If they're a good licensed
elevator mechanic. I was fortunate enough to get
passed back and forth between 22gentlemen who were very senior
and very intelligent and had been in for, at the time, 28 to
(21:23):
30 years working for the same company.
So, you know, these guys and it was a heart like if one of them
was to, to chime in and comment,he would say, you know, he was a
pain in the, you know, 'cause itwas I had to make this
transition from the top of the food chain, so to speak, to
being somebody's helper. And then that guy had to deal
(21:45):
with it. So he, they did, both of them.
I would not have a business, I would not be where I was without
them and the knowledge they theyput forth on me in the trade
specifically. But you're in that team and
that's your mentor. And if if you create a good
relationship, I probably wasted a year kind of butting heads a
(22:06):
little bit that I could have been even more knowledgeable and
I could have gained more, more skills, I would say.
But there is there is new programs now where, you know,
somebody like myself can OfferUpas a mentor.
I mentor as many people as possible, especially from the
military. I have random people calling me
(22:27):
from all over the country just because they call their friends,
they're in, they say they call the local and the local says,
Hey, Brian's a great example of,you know, getting through those
struggles and what to go for andhow to do the interview.
So I do it. But we actually in an official
capacity in the IOEC have have more mentoring programs and
(22:49):
they're always, they're great about it.
They're always looking at ways at how to, you know, take
somebody who knows nothing, turnthem into a subject matter
expert and then have retainability like prove to them
we want them to stay and be retainable and and train them
right. It's just like any military
branch, right? We want to train them and retain
them. So we don't want them to go
(23:10):
through all the training and spend all this money and then go
and become a grocery Packer, right?
We want, we want them committed to this.
So yes, there's a lot of good mentoring and it's only getting
better, especially for helmets, hard hats and and veterans, but
also to folks who aren't. That's great.
That's outstanding. I'm happy to hear that because
mentorship is so important regardless of what industry
(23:33):
you're in. And I imagine, you know, being
low in the totem pole and then having to take instructions from
others. But like the more that you're
doing it and you're open to thatfeedback, you're going to grow
as you stated, right? And it sounds like that has been
very true in your journey as. Yeah.
(23:53):
And so one question, so you mentioned an acronym, it was you
start with an I, you mentioned it a few times.
I just wanted to clarify. Yes, IUECS, that's the
International Union of Elevator Constructors.
So it, you know, it's, it's a union, the local for us.
When we say local, I'm referringto the regions that are under
(24:14):
control by certain business managers.
You know, there's locals all over the country.
The IU EC is like I said, the International Union elevator
constructors and that's the program you're getting into.
You're getting into a very tightknit and, you know, professional
group of blue in the in a blue collar trade.
And I think that was the only acronym I used, but that's what
(24:37):
that one is, correct? That was it.
That was it because I was like, wait, I don't know what that is.
So listeners and viewers might not know what that means.
So it's also a great resource too, because if you're going to
try and make your way in, start there, maybe get some contacts.
Next thing you know, they're going to be calling you, Brian.
They're going to be like, hey, let's listen to this podcast.
And I heard that you know what'sup, right?
(24:58):
So no. No trying to put more stuff on
your plate. So you're a busy man.
But so let me ask you this. So let's talk about like the
realities of growth in this thisniche industry.
So like, what challenges are blind spots in the elevator
business? That people would.
Expect like what? Don't people know business?
(25:24):
Business is odd, obviously states.
So we're licensed in four different states, Vermont, New
Hampshire, Massachusetts and NewYork, looking into other states
as well, obviously running any business.
So the biggest thing is in in inthis case is that I would be,
you know, Mac Brothers elevator would be referred to as an
independent, so an independent company.
(25:44):
And then you have, you know, major corporations.
So that one of the biggest hurdles is, is, is the fact that
my competition is in fact very large, you know, multi million
or billion dollar corporations who are essentially limitless.
So you have to create a product that can compete with that.
(26:05):
And sometimes it's just not possible.
You know, they have all the assets in the world.
They've been doing it for an extraordinary amount of time.
So you're really everything's stacked against you and it takes
a lot of, it takes a lot of gutsto, to dive into it.
That the biggest hurdle is, is that's your competition.
And then you, you are very couldpotentially be very discouraged
(26:27):
from from that reality. So that's a huge hurdle.
I mean, if you want to start anybody starting any business,
whether it's a yarn company or an elevator company, there's a
leap and that's, that gets back to that.
Don't look before you leap. And it sounds a little not
immature, but irresponsible sometimes.
(26:47):
But when you get brought up in aplace like the 75th Ranger
Regiment, you'd be surprised at how many calculations are
actually getting done in the milliseconds it took to to jump,
you know, leap before you look. And that's kind of what
happened. So you kind of have to ask
yourself, how many times in the past have I actually like
(27:07):
grotesquely failed at something,whether it was changing a motor
out in an old truck and it got to a hard point and I just said,
break it to the scrap yard, I'm done.
Or passing a test or something at what point?
And if you ask a lot of people who have that background,
they're going to look up into the air for a minute and they're
going to go, I've never really done that.
(27:28):
Like I just didn't get it right the first time, but I got it
right the 300th time. And but I didn't stop and I
didn't quit. And that's the big thing with
business that that you know, thehurdle specifically in this
trade is that my competition is billion dollar corporations.
The hurdle from a personal standpoint is it's excessively
(27:48):
stressful. It takes a lot of guts and but
again, know thyself. So you learn all these great
things in the military and how to push yourself even further.
And that's everything in business like it's never easy if
you look for the cookie cutter answer to make you feel good
about going out on your own and with it doesn't matter with
(28:12):
barely any savings, but you havea really good idea and you can
work endless hours to achieve your your goals.
It none of it's none of it is fun.
Which again, some some. So I know I still know a lot of
green Berets. They're very good friends of
mine. One of them in particular has a
hilarious saying. We we were trying to figure out
(28:34):
like what is it about the chaos that is attractive?
Like why do we go around and tryto recreate it in so many
different scenarios? Safe, safe chaos.
Not like dangerous jump out of aplane without a.
Pair of safe chaos. Understood.
You know, like sometimes I'll just buy something.
I'll put something on my credit card at the beginning of the
month, just something expensive,just so I can scramble through
(28:56):
the 30 days to try to figure outa way to pay it off.
And he's like, why do we do that?
It's the most ridiculous thing, but it's just busy brains.
I think. I think it's I haven't quite
figured that portion of it out. And that obviously is is a very
funny example. But you know, when like if
there's no chaos, guys who are guys and gals who are they're
(29:16):
tempos, they got to go, go, go. There's there's this.
You might find that this might be an Ave. into why people, you
know, go into drugs or or anything for that matter, like
so how do you recreate the chaosin a safe manner to keep the
brain busy? And in my case, it was business.
It was like a constant challenge, a little bit of a
(29:38):
fear. It was a little scary at times,
a lot scary, but it was enough And like you got to find that
chaos that can you can have an ROI on right, You return on
investment. So if you can create I.
Really appreciate. That so much if you can.
If you can create chaos that youhave an ROI on, then you're
keeping your brain busy from, you know, your past life in the
(30:01):
military, you're keeping your body busy.
And now all of a sudden, when the dust settles, you've created
this wonderful business and that's huge.
And, and I've worked really hardat writing.
I've been, you know, vaguely writing a book more of like a so
I don't forget things writing itdown because I really wanted to
outline that for folks that you like this gentleman with the
(30:25):
credit card, you know, it's likestart a business instead of like
that's what happens after a while.
You just can only create so muchchaos or things to keep your
mind busy before you hit a wall and you're like, you're doing
things like that. And we we laugh about it.
You know, it's a joke. You know, he's very, very
responsible, very well off humanbeing, but he just it's a funny
(30:46):
thing. So how do we, how do we recreate
that? And then we, we take it and we
turn it into an investment or weturn it into, you know, a
product. And that's what I think I did,
but it took me some trial and error to do but.
Sure. I, I'm, I'm hearing what you're
saying because, you know, being a business owner is not for the
(31:06):
faint of heart. I think that for veterans, the
military connected community, it's a very, you know, feasible
route pathway, particularly to kind of have a little bit of
control of our lives and to seekout, I'd say like both passions,
things that are value aligned, because sometimes we don't find
(31:29):
that when we're, you know, sitting across the table and
interviewing with, with companies, particularly because
of the value set and the camaraderie we've we've been
with, right. So I think again, like the ups
and the downs of things, right, like having controlled chaos and
I, you know, prior service myself, right?
Like so as an NCO like I just you're given a little bit of
(31:51):
resource, a little bit of time, accomplish the goal and.
In there and you're set so you're set up so good for it
when you get out of the militaryto be a business owner, you
know, not everybody's not everybody is is going to be that
person. But generally, and you could
create some statistics and metrics to this about how many,
(32:14):
where did they come from? Who started, who started
businesses? Where did they come from?
What were they exposed to? And actually come up with a
statistic because there's enoughpeople getting out of the
military and starting businesses. 97%, I think it's 97
or 98% of the business in the United States are 250 employees
or less. So they're calculated as a small
(32:35):
business. And I guarantee you there's a
very good chunk of those, which we could easily find with
disabled veteran owned businesses right there.
We just and veteran owned businesses.
So you're set up for it when youget out of the military and you
have to, you have to create the right chaos that's going to give
you an ROI and there's. Plenty of programs out there.
(32:57):
There's plenty of programs that will kind of give you that
scaffolding and some framework for you to kind of lean into.
But there's AII this, again, just my assumption and also
speaking from my own experiences, like you got to
have an internal drive if you want to do the things right.
Like what you've just got to drive.
That's a. Tough one.
Right. What you've described to me too,
is getting into a real niche industry in the elevator
(33:19):
community, right? Like you're, you're in, you said
3 or 4 States and you want to expand more and you're going toe
to toe with, you know, companiesthat have been around probably
longer than yours, right? And how do you, how do you
compete with that? How do you create opportunities
for, for other veterans? How do you create opportunity
for yourself and your family andyou achieve your goals in this
(33:39):
controlled chaos setting? And that's why I think business
is so attractive to the very specific type of folks that come
out of the service. And I think you're a great
example of that because you've taken a lot of the value
alignment. You, you made some, you made
some hard, tough calls. You made the decision right,
(33:59):
like no decision is a decision. And you decided I'm going to go
go into this industry, I'm goingto start a business, I'm going
to network and be a part of these regional unions.
I'm going to have the mentorship.
And now I want to write things down and pass on those pearls of
wisdom because other folks need to hear it.
(34:22):
And they particularly need to hear it's OK, like, be humbled,
sit down and start over a littlebit because, like, veterans are
part of us. Yeah, and it is.
It's tough. And like the name of the book
was going to be CM, you know, like continue mission and 'cause
you know, you get, you deal withsomething on target and some,
you know, you get the CM you gotto keep going.
(34:44):
And that's kind of what it was going to be around.
Like, hey, average, average soldier, nothing too, nothing
too wild. And but but you definitely
weren't below the standard. Like those are the people I
think that suffered the most because they had such high
expectations. Like they were going to be.
And this just sounds going to sound silly, but at 18 year old,
18 years old, I put being in themilitary long before that age on
(35:07):
a pedestal. So when I got there and I didn't
have like Audie Murphy status. You have a little you have you
have you take a little bit of a hit and and you're just a young
man. You're you're a very young
person at 18. And that's that is the biggest
issue is that just for that guy that is just land somewheres in
(35:30):
the middle or gal that you, you got to find.
You got to find, like I said, know thyself.
You got to find out who you are.And then when you get out or
decide to get out, you have to keep that.
You have to stay busy as humanlypossible and apply it in the
right spots. And you, nobody's better set up
(35:51):
for it than somebody that's coming out of the military, in
my opinion. I so I understand completely
what you're talking about havinghaving gone through a a very
similar life path, figuring thatout, owning a business, seeking
employment elsewhere, like all the things, right?
(36:12):
What would advice would you giveto other veterans considering a
career in the trades? And what do you hope that the
Mac brothers represents in the long run?
So ask the first part again really quick.
Of course. What advice would you give to
(36:33):
other veterans considering a career in the trades?
So I think depending on your MOS, right, like I said, I did
something that was highly activewith behind a firearm, right.
So you chase your gun dream in those guys, guys and gals or I
think are absolutely set up to go into a construction trade,
(36:55):
right? Because you can comply the same
knowledge, right? You have a mission, you have an
objective. We have to go in there.
We have to do something. You're working with a team like
you have to you have to make those relations because that
what's the going to be the what's going to be the softest
way to reintroduce my persona into a completely different
workforce. So what I don't recommend is
(37:18):
somebody who's in that MOS goes and becomes a banker, right?
We have, we have a future disaster playing out in that
case, no offense to bankers, butyou, you see what I'm saying?
It's I, I, I don't, I don't see how that would work very well.
It might work. Maybe that's somebody's dream.
But in my opinion. And then if you're an MOS where
(37:40):
you're, there's electricians andengineering and mechanics, like
at a minimum, do something that you're, it is remotely relative
to, you know, that's, that's a huge piece of advice with
getting in the trades. And I think anybody who wants to
work with your hands and have a busy mind should be going in the
trades. Again, it's all, it's all based
(38:00):
on people's perception of reality and, and what they want
to do. Like if you feel satisfied after
getting a profit and loss reportsent in, then you know, you
should be an accountant or a banker.
But if that's not enough for you, then you need to be able to
finish building a plumbing header and walk away and turn
around and be like, I did that today.
You got to have, you have to have a start and a finish, but
(38:20):
type A people need a start and afinish and a product to observe
when it's when you're done, because then you have self
satisfaction. I think my generation in
particular, it's not taught enough today where it's like,
you know, you're supposed to putyour pride into something and
then turn around and look at it right when you're about to walk
off the job or walk out of the office building and say, I, I
(38:45):
did a good job today. Like I actually started
something, I did the 300 items in between that and the finish
to get it to the finish line. And I did it and you're supposed
to feel good and you're supposedto go home and be happy with
your spouse. And I just don't think it exists
anymore at all. Well.
You've raised a good point. A lot of us don't end up seeing
(39:05):
the final product and when we'rein the military, many of the
things we do, we actually get tosee the end result.
We get to be a part of the wholeprocess and we get to lead and
make decisions, right. And so a lot of folks who do
step into the white collar job pathway, right, nothing wrong
with that, right? There's, there's always going to
be someone hired to you. You're not going to be able to
implement the exact amount of change.
(39:26):
I think what you're describing in in the blue collar space and
the trade space is that if you are someone who really thrives
on like task completion and you know, making sure you're getting
the things done in the right order, or like there's
definitely some conscientiousness.
And this was also some some different traits, right?
Know thyself. That could be the feel for you.
(39:49):
Like, you know, there's a sayingit's like idle hands or
something like that. I can't think of what.
Yeah, yeah. But I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm hearing
what you're saying. And I, I think that there's a
lot of folks out there who will benefit from hearing like, know
yourself, don't like, you know, don't.
Not go the the trades route because of uncertainty.
(40:10):
Really think about who you are, what you want to accomplish,
what the avenues are for a business or getting that
experience in one of the trades.Whether you decide to go to
elevators or electrician or HVAC, whatever you decide to do.
And depending on your age, I mean, most of these programs do
OJT hours, on the job training hours and they'll put you
(40:30):
through school and four to five years.
Most trades, you'll have a journeyman's license or a full
license. So what's 4 years?
You're making money the whole time.
What's 4 years at a minimum? Go out and get a license and the
a trade. If you want to work with your
hands, you find one that, that you enjoy, go and get a license.
(40:52):
And then if you want to go to college, you become a brain
surgeon with the GI Bill. At least you have that license.
You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's huge to just,
you know, and then like young, young kids too, coming out of
high school and they're like, you know, I'm not really sure
it's the same principle applies.I'm not really sure what I want
to do to really finish off, finish off my, you know, my
(41:13):
forever job. So just the most of these places
are dying for help. And if you can work with your
hands and you can do a good job and be safe.
If you just put your head down and you pick it, next time you
pick it up, you're going to be ready to take your tests and
have a license. And what do electricians make
per hour? And what do plumbers make per
hour with a license? I mean, it is the trade is in
(41:34):
pain because we have lack of people, lack of candidates.
So it's it's a very simple thingto commit to and it'll keep you
busy. And at the end of all, but if
you're like, I still want to go become a brain surgeon, then at
least you have you'll never, that can never be taken away
from you. So like you said, idle hands,
which I know the saying. And the whole idea is that if
(41:56):
you just kind of sit there, I think I'll go to college, it
could be a waste. And that's not going to be a
waste if you put your time in with your hours in any local or
any trade. Absolutely no, I, I agree.
And, and Brian, I want to thank you so much for joining us today
because you've, you've given folks a lot to think about.
And this is a conversation that desperately needed and needs to
(42:19):
happen, particularly with where we're at in our our jobs.
You know, I think about how AI and how other things are being
infused into different career paths.
Things are changing, but I don'tthink that people being able to
work with their hands and no specific skills or how to fix
things are going to be going away anytime soon.
(42:40):
It's a huge opportunity for so many people, the 250,000 that
transition annually from the service, regardless of branch
for, for young kids who are eventhinking maybe I'll join the
service and I'll go and start that on the job training and
get, you know, a pathway that allows me to have that
mechanical electric, you know. Background, yes.
(43:02):
Like to your background, right, But I, I think that this
conversation needed to happen and I'm, I'm so appreciative for
all of your insight today and knowing that self is, I think
maybe what I'm going to coin this episode because it's so
true. You really have to take that
time to focus on the self, right?
We're very focused on selfless service during the service.
(43:25):
Doesn't mean it's not a part of our core, but there's a point
where you have to reflect, make those decisions and pursue what
makes you content and gives you peace.
And even if that's controlled chaos, it's your controlled
chaos. And I really appreciate you
being on today and and celebrating your journey.
I'm very proud of you. Something unique that you're
(43:47):
doing. I'm wishing you tremendous
amount of luck and expanding your business into different
states. I'm sure folks will be trying
to. Hey, can I get in touch with
Brian because I have questions. I'm interested in this space.
Tell me more about hard hats or helmets to hard hats, right?
And we'll put some links in the show notes too.
And if there's any of course, additional resources or things,
(44:09):
I would love to include those. But is that all being said?
Go ahead, Brian. Go ahead.
I said feel free to reach out with any other questions.
It was great. Thank you very much.
Of course, of course. And alphas, we are so happy that
you have joined as well. As always, please like,
subscribe and drop a rating on this show on Apple Podcast,
Spotify, or wherever you are listening and we will see you
(44:33):
soon.
Welcome to Spotlight Veterans Entrepreneurship, a special
series from the American LegionsTal podcast.
I'm your host, Ashley Gorbulcha.In each episode, we sit down
with a veteran or military spouse entrepreneur who is
leading the charge across different industries.
We will explore the challenges, breakthroughs, and real stories
(00:21):
behind building a business during and after military
service. Today we're joined with Brian
Mark Ajani, President of Mac Brothers Elevator and U.S.
Army veteran, who served five years with the elite 75th Ranger
Regiment, including two deployments to Afghanistan.
After transitioning out of the military, Brian applied his
discipline, tactical mindset, and drive for excellence to
(00:43):
launch a specialized elevator repair company based in Vermont.
He's also an active member of American Legion Post 29, helping
sustain veteran community life in one of the smallest towns in
state. Brian, welcome to the Tango Off
Lima podcast. Thank you for having me.
Of course, we're super excited. I'm excited to get into all the
(01:04):
ups and the downs of your business.
Yeah, we knew that was coming. Be prepared, I have plenty of
corny jokes. I am from the Midwest, so I
fantastic. So what I like to do is I like
to split things into themes because I am that kind of nerd.
And so we're going to kind of cover 5 different topics.
(01:25):
And so the first I want to discuss is from service to
elevators, right? So the origin story.
What inspired you to take the leap into elevator repair after
your time in the service? So it kind of all started out
and something I've always kind of hit on with folks that get
(01:46):
out of the service because you kind of feel like a little
overwhelmed with with the, you know, the plate that's in front
of you. So you kind of do what I like to
call, I think a lot of guys who come out, especially in the, you
know, 11 Bravos, which the infantry or spec OPS or
anything, and you have this idealistic gun dream that you're
(02:08):
going to find chasing the gun dream, as they call it.
So you know, you, you look for certain aspects that may be as
close to humanly possible as to what you dealt with in the
service. So the first thing I did was
went and worked for a company out in California called Gavin
Day Becker, which is a close protection firm for numerous
(02:30):
parties. And, and again, it's, you know,
you kind of have to just take a step back and look at the
characteristics that built builtyou up as a person and utilize
those. But it's the most comfortable to
find something that is so closely related to the training
mindset. So I tried that for a short
(02:51):
amount of time and it wasn't doing it because I don't think
there is going to be a, a 5050 marker where you can have the
same amount of camaraderie and tactics and things that kind of
really gave you interest in the 1st place and being in any
community, not just spec OPS in the military.
And you know, you got to have a couple of failed attempts and I
(03:14):
think a lot of guys get discouraged after that point.
So then before I had flown out and moved everything across the
country, I had done an interviewfor the IUEC be through my my
stepfather, who was also a veteran, and he said, just just
do the interview. It can't hurt.
So we got to talking. I did the interview as I'm out
(03:36):
in California, I get the phone call.
They're like, hey, you know, you, you're up on the list.
You passed the interview. Everything went great.
Your resume was awesome. And I was already there, you
know, chasing that gun dream andand I lost a little bit of time
when I could have started even sooner.
But then again, it just hit me one day.
I said, look, I used to grew up mechanically, electrically very
(03:58):
involved. So it was something that kept my
mind busy. And I think that's a lot of
problems, a lot of problems thatstem from the way we suffer is
this high tempo with wherever, whatever unit you were with and
that camaraderie. So you have to find something
that's closely going to match itand you can take your character
(04:18):
growth and apply it to you the same way, but it almost has to
be a completely different tractor of your life, in my
opinion, for you to really, for you really to do well.
So I, I got the phone call on, Ithink it was a Tuesday, at which
time I said I will, I'll take it.
(04:39):
So the, luckily the supervisor Ihad at the time was like, you
don't need to hand in two weeks or whatever.
So I essentially cashed in everything, sold everything,
drove across the country throughthe 4th of July and I showed up
here last Thursday, showed got here, got back home on Sunday
and I was working for the elevator trade that Monday
(05:02):
morning. So it's kind of a that's that in
itself is that don't look beforeyou leap.
I think is also a great, it can be great and it can be not
great, but I don't think anybodywould have done that without a
background. That's like, you know, trust
your instincts, trust your gut and and go for it because, you
know, I just felt the right thing to do and I knew I, I had
(05:23):
already checked all my blocks with chasing that gun dream.
So that's how I got started. So they used the Helmets to hard
Hats program, which really makesit streamline for veterans.
And that was huge because there's a big waiting list.
It's a very difficult trade to get into.
A lot of qualifications and training is needed.
But that's how I got started. And you know, if you were to
(05:44):
conclude that it would be AII just made the realization that
if I took what I learned as a Ranger and being my time in the
military and almost applied it to a completely different
category, it you know, it was itwas it was almost like a no lose
scenario was capable because theguys are so motivated and so
smart. And what you learn about
(06:05):
yourself, you don't know thyselfwhen you're in the service,
especially in a unit like that, that there's very little that's
going to stop you when you put your mind to something.
But chasing that gun dream is something that I personally
think a lot of guys do. I did it various, various
things, looking at contracting and security and all that.
(06:27):
And I had to have that realization one day and you
know, and say to myself, you know, just take the same mindset
that made you a Ranger and applyit to a trade, a blue collar
trade essentially. So that's how I get started.
That's fantastic. I, I love the way that you've,
you know, you've pivoted the, the paradigm, right?
(06:47):
Like you understood at your corewhat was important to you and
how to apply that into the trades?
Because I think right now we're in a time and space where
there's a lot of blue collar andwhite collar jobs.
And we've put so much emphasis for a long time on like going,
we'll, we'll, we'll say traditional routes.
And so it is very common for folks to get out, especially in
(07:10):
high tempo regiments, Your company's, you know, whatever
job occupation you had, regardless of branch, if you're
used to that, you want to stay in something similar.
So for you to kind of pivot and be like, I'm going to lean back
on some of my experience in electric and mechanics, but also
apply all of my core ethos and what I've been doing for a long
(07:32):
time into something different, right?
If you took a leap, a lot of people are nervous to do that or
it it looks too cumbersome. It's nerve wracking.
It is just getting out is nerve wracking, you know, and it feels
like the right thing to do at the time.
And then all you do is you just miss the guys everyday.
Like I miss, you know, I miss the camaraderie, I miss
everything. And then you search for that,
(07:54):
that recreated feeling. And I think a lot of guys don't
find it, which is why I think you have a lot of, you know,
veterans that deal with even worse depression and, and even
worse, you know, characteristicsbecause it's just, I think you
have, you just have to be aware enough to sit down and just me
have a meeting with somebody, best friend, wife, girlfriend,
(08:16):
husband, whatever, and just break it down like that, you
know, But that, that was a big one.
That was the largest, most successful move I made at that
time. I had, like I said, travelled
across the country, stopped, didthis, did that, had a few weeks
to get out there, really learnedwho I was.
And that's when I made the decision when I was in
(08:37):
California to come back and, and, and just put everything I
had into it. I'm so proud of you.
It's incredibly inspiring. It really is.
I mean, there's a lot of folks who have a really hard time
taking the hard left and sometimes they opt into the easy
right. And that easy right sometimes
leads you down a path that is OKfor the short term.
(08:57):
But what you've done in that hard left is you made the long
term strategic. I'm going to do this for the
betterment of myself. And you're right, when we talk
about community as a military connect community, there's
something, there's something missing.
And it sounds like as you were building your business in the
trades, and we'll kind of lean into the second question here
(09:19):
is, you know, as you're buildingyour business into the trades,
what were some of the biggest challenges of breaking into this
specialized industry? And how did you kind of like
take some of those lessons learned from your past and apply
them to what's carrying? Absolutely.
You know, it is generally a, it's a difficult industry to get
into because it is very small. It is a specialized trade.
(09:42):
There's no protection of the trade.
It it's just a, it's just rare. It's rare to get in.
I and I had an Ave. and I capitalized on it.
But the hellman's the hard hats thing.
It's it's huge. The program is massive for
veterans. It it, you know, it's almost so
I've met with numerous officialsfrom the IUEC and the, and the
(10:03):
local in regards to some of themare, you know, their, their sole
task is to focus on veterans benefits that are in in there.
And the gentleman we obviously met through is the same on a
more regional basis. And the biggest, biggest
challenges is I would say one ofthem right off the bat is if
you're interested in something. And, and the reason why the
(10:24):
elevator trade, I think collectsa lot of people's interests is
you do so much in, in one trade,you do so much of the other
trades in it. So the welding, the plumbing,
the electrical work, the rigging, the fabrication.
So it's all in there. So if you're a really busy body,
like like a, you know, a former Army Ranger probably is, and
we'll call it ADDADHD or just being a really, you know, a
(10:48):
really motivated dude or gal forthat matter, you need to keep
your brain busy. You absolutely need to get your,
keep your brain busy. So first, so I start out as a
probationary apprentice and these are the challenges, right?
So, you know, I wasn't the, I was the average soldier when I
(11:08):
was at Ranger Battalion. You know, I didn't I I wasn't
the guy that was, you know, award bound, but I also wasn't I
was, I was, I was standard. You know, I was achieving the
standard in doing my job as a teammate.
But you're still a Ranger, right?
So then you have to go and listen to somebody that tell
(11:30):
give you, you know, give you directions and tell you how to
do something and tell you did itwrong.
That has no idea. This is the other massive
struggle. You know, you went from the top
of the food chain to taking instructions from somebody who
has, you know, doesn't understand the, I wouldn't say
like sacrifices in a sad way. But the amount of work it took
(11:51):
to get to that point of being passing these courses and
selections and working as a teamand jumping out of planes and,
and being, being a good teammateunder gunfire, so to speak.
And then you have to go and listen to somebody whose life
probably hasn't achieved. It's possible you're going to be
hooked up with somebody as a helper or in a probationary
(12:13):
apprentice that hasn't seen or done a fraction of what some of
these guys have done who have 8 deployments, 10 deployments.
You know, I had two. And I think that was the perfect
amount of exposure to what I sawto still stay in the this zone
where I could look one way and look the other.
(12:34):
But it was a struggle, and the struggle is you have to take
instructions from somebody. But we deal with that.
I think in a national crisis right now with young guys and
guys and girls going into a trade or anything like that,
that are entitled. And like I was young and
entitled. So like if I had the knowledge I
have now, 10 years later, I would have gone back in time and
(12:57):
said, hey, man, just take the instructions.
Things are going to work out. It's just a part of the process.
It's just like going to a selection course to become a
green Beret or a Ranger or a seal.
Like you're going to deal with amultitude of things you don't
enjoy for extended periods of time.
Sometimes time time limits that you don't even know exist.
You just have to do it for undisclosed amount of time and
(13:19):
distance. And the same applies to dealing
with these folks that may not see eye to eye with you.
And that's one of the hardest things.
But I know as a as the IUEC and the local have been really
emphasizing on this at that point, because you're the future
of the workforce is only as goodas how you train them and bring
them up. So biggest hurdle making that
(13:40):
transition. And if I was to potentially
conclude it and do a like a topic paragraph is you have to
go from the top of the food chain back down to listen to
somebody who's not even in the same category of food chains.
That's difficult for anybody to do so, but you got to just like
when you got into the service again, know thyself.
(14:01):
You know, you have to, you have to just put your time in.
It'll all come out in the wash. It just, it just stinks to have
to hit the reset button after you just spent the last five
1015 years maturing your career as any anybody in any MOS in the
military. Understood.
Yeah, it's, it's very humbling, right.
(14:23):
And I think particularly with the the veteran military
connected community, we have what I like to call we've, we've
lived an entire lifetime in a short, short span.
Like I commonly am, like I feel like I've lived an entire life
in a decade even with my own service.
So I like to think of that in a broader concept for a lot of
(14:45):
folks in our community and how starting over is scary.
And it sounds like, well, you were, you know, moving into this
very specialized industry, you were able to recognize that 1/2
against self-awareness is very, very important here.
And also having like empathy to understand that the folks that
(15:06):
you're now being trained by don't really fully understand
the the scope of things that you've done.
And so it challenges you on an entirely different level.
And so. Yeah, I just, and one caveat to
that is, you know, I think beingintellectual, intelligent is
something people may, you know, I think in order to be all
(15:30):
knowing intellectual and intelligent, you have to be able
to see that, you know, some people go around and, you know,
they may boast that they're verysmart and they might have a very
high success rate with certain things.
But I think what really takes you into the next category is
having the ability as a former veteran or getting out of the
service. And I know they could do these
(15:50):
teachings. I know they could tell everybody
this and then soldiers getting out and just say, you know, if
the first step to success is an intellect and all knowing this
is you know, you have to identify those situations as
you're presented, as they're presented to you.
And you can ruin your reputationin any blue collar trade off
(16:12):
your first two weeks of behaviorthat you're there.
So if you can just tell yourselfand just save your mind.
I'm I'm just basic training again.
I did it once, I'll do it again or it's selection for to become
a green beret. Like I just, I'm just gonna have
to knock it out and do it again.But once you, you'll, you know,
the, I want the expectations forsomebody like that and how
(16:34):
quickly you can achieve success.If you just put your nose down
and, and, and grind, you'll get there so much faster because
again, know thyself. Like we know what we've put
ourselves through. We know what our limits are and
we know we can just push and to get to the finish line and
potentially blow by the competition or whatever the case
(16:56):
may be. It's like, you know, use, use
that to, you know, kind of adaptand grow and know before you get
into the situation and there's something disappointing coming,
but it's only for a short periodof time.
In life, everything seems to be temporary.
It's kind of a mindset. I've reacted over the past few
years. It's just, it's just another
(17:17):
one. It'll be fine.
Can't last, can't last forever. Sir can't last forever.
To take with you as if you get into that probationary phase
anywhere in any trade. Absolutely.
So with where you've started, itsounds like between workforce
leadership and mentorship, I feel like you've had some really
awesome folks in your corner that have provided you with this
(17:42):
mentorship, especially leaning into the trades now.
Like are you still in touch withsome of the folks that have
trained you? Obviously you've you've gone
into starting your own business and working in this field, but
you know, what's kind of your approach to hiring, training in
the trade that's often underserved?
(18:03):
Yeah, so I, I do keep in contactwith some and this is a good
line that I, I like to use when,when I talk about this and
people ask me, should I stay in longer?
Should I get out? And you know, it's some, some
people need the army and the army needs some people.
And that just is a general in the military.
(18:23):
So some people need the structure.
It's less to think about, you know, and they're good at it and
they're disciplined and that's where they want to be.
And those people, if they know that at the bottom of their
hearts, they should be staying, they should be staying and they
should be putting their time in.You got to try to go to school
where you're in. But on the on the flip side,
like I said, some people need the Army and the Army need some
(18:45):
people. So I said that, Right, right.
Yes, so right, so so it it's just one of those things like I
saw enough of what I needed to see to mature my character to
the point where I could, you know, staying longer would have
been it wouldn't have helped. It wouldn't have expanded what I
(19:06):
had found anymore. It still would have been a very
formidable and respectable thingto stay in and serve the
country. But it's just, it, something
weird hit me about it. And, and that's, that's when I,
I, I had cut the, cut the line off at, at my first enlistment
because I knew I could do more on the outside with what they
(19:29):
exposed me, my, and my characterto so that I could really,
really sore on the outside. I, I, I didn't know the
terminology for that, but I could feel it, you know, I, I
knew something, I, I, I wouldn'tbe able to achieve what I wanted
to achieve. And there was a second question
(19:49):
I'd like you to answer. It no, no, I, I'm, I'm curious,
so having, having transitioned out, what have your, what has
your mentorship been like now that you're in the like elevator
industry? Obviously it's what you mean,
she said. It's hard to get into.
Have there been folks who have been able to help you?
Are there groups, affiliations and different things like that?
(20:15):
Yeah. So basically when I got in
originally, they had an actual mentorship program and we, I
think they disbanded it up to this point because I don't think
it was achieving, you know, checking all the blocks the way
they wanted to. But now we're getting back into
it. You essentially, that's what's
(20:36):
another attractive thing for especially spec OPS guys, but
any any military branch whatsoever.
But you know, you essentially goaround especially because if
you're not a non licensed probationary apprentice or
apprentice or first year or whatever, you're not allowed to
work on equipment without a license.
So you're in a team, right? There's that camaraderie and
(20:58):
that team thing, so you build a relationship with that person
and hopefully they're good to you and they're knowledgeable.
That's your mentor. If they're a good licensed
elevator mechanic. I was fortunate enough to get
passed back and forth between 22gentlemen who were very senior
and very intelligent and had been in for, at the time, 28 to
(21:23):
30 years working for the same company.
So, you know, these guys and it was a heart like if one of them
was to, to chime in and comment,he would say, you know, he was a
pain in the, you know, 'cause itwas I had to make this
transition from the top of the food chain, so to speak, to
being somebody's helper. And then that guy had to deal
(21:45):
with it. So he, they did, both of them.
I would not have a business, I would not be where I was without
them and the knowledge they theyput forth on me in the trade
specifically. But you're in that team and
that's your mentor. And if if you create a good
relationship, I probably wasted a year kind of butting heads a
(22:06):
little bit that I could have been even more knowledgeable and
I could have gained more, more skills, I would say.
But there is there is new programs now where, you know,
somebody like myself can OfferUpas a mentor.
I mentor as many people as possible, especially from the
military. I have random people calling me
(22:27):
from all over the country just because they call their friends,
they're in, they say they call the local and the local says,
Hey, Brian's a great example of,you know, getting through those
struggles and what to go for andhow to do the interview.
So I do it. But we actually in an official
capacity in the IOEC have have more mentoring programs and
(22:49):
they're always, they're great about it.
They're always looking at ways at how to, you know, take
somebody who knows nothing, turnthem into a subject matter
expert and then have retainability like prove to them
we want them to stay and be retainable and and train them
right. It's just like any military
branch, right? We want to train them and retain
them. So we don't want them to go
(23:10):
through all the training and spend all this money and then go
and become a grocery Packer, right?
We want, we want them committed to this.
So yes, there's a lot of good mentoring and it's only getting
better, especially for helmets, hard hats and and veterans, but
also to folks who aren't. That's great.
That's outstanding. I'm happy to hear that because
mentorship is so important regardless of what industry
(23:33):
you're in. And I imagine, you know, being
low in the totem pole and then having to take instructions from
others. But like the more that you're
doing it and you're open to thatfeedback, you're going to grow
as you stated, right? And it sounds like that has been
very true in your journey as. Yeah.
(23:53):
And so one question, so you mentioned an acronym, it was you
start with an I, you mentioned it a few times.
I just wanted to clarify. Yes, IUECS, that's the
International Union of Elevator Constructors.
So it, you know, it's, it's a union, the local for us.
When we say local, I'm referringto the regions that are under
(24:14):
control by certain business managers.
You know, there's locals all over the country.
The IU EC is like I said, the International Union elevator
constructors and that's the program you're getting into.
You're getting into a very tightknit and, you know, professional
group of blue in the in a blue collar trade.
And I think that was the only acronym I used, but that's what
(24:37):
that one is, correct? That was it.
That was it because I was like, wait, I don't know what that is.
So listeners and viewers might not know what that means.
So it's also a great resource too, because if you're going to
try and make your way in, start there, maybe get some contacts.
Next thing you know, they're going to be calling you, Brian.
They're going to be like, hey, let's listen to this podcast.
And I heard that you know what'sup, right?
(24:58):
So no. No trying to put more stuff on
your plate. So you're a busy man.
But so let me ask you this. So let's talk about like the
realities of growth in this thisniche industry.
So like, what challenges are blind spots in the elevator
business? That people would.
Expect like what? Don't people know business?
(25:24):
Business is odd, obviously states.
So we're licensed in four different states, Vermont, New
Hampshire, Massachusetts and NewYork, looking into other states
as well, obviously running any business.
So the biggest thing is in in inthis case is that I would be,
you know, Mac Brothers elevator would be referred to as an
independent, so an independent company.
(25:44):
And then you have, you know, major corporations.
So that one of the biggest hurdles is, is, is the fact that
my competition is in fact very large, you know, multi million
or billion dollar corporations who are essentially limitless.
So you have to create a product that can compete with that.
(26:05):
And sometimes it's just not possible.
You know, they have all the assets in the world.
They've been doing it for an extraordinary amount of time.
So you're really everything's stacked against you and it takes
a lot of, it takes a lot of gutsto, to dive into it.
That the biggest hurdle is, is that's your competition.
And then you, you are very couldpotentially be very discouraged
(26:27):
from from that reality. So that's a huge hurdle.
I mean, if you want to start anybody starting any business,
whether it's a yarn company or an elevator company, there's a
leap and that's, that gets back to that.
Don't look before you leap. And it sounds a little not
immature, but irresponsible sometimes.
(26:47):
But when you get brought up in aplace like the 75th Ranger
Regiment, you'd be surprised at how many calculations are
actually getting done in the milliseconds it took to to jump,
you know, leap before you look. And that's kind of what
happened. So you kind of have to ask
yourself, how many times in the past have I actually like
(27:07):
grotesquely failed at something,whether it was changing a motor
out in an old truck and it got to a hard point and I just said,
break it to the scrap yard, I'm done.
Or passing a test or something at what point?
And if you ask a lot of people who have that background,
they're going to look up into the air for a minute and they're
going to go, I've never really done that.
(27:28):
Like I just didn't get it right the first time, but I got it
right the 300th time. And but I didn't stop and I
didn't quit. And that's the big thing with
business that that you know, thehurdle specifically in this
trade is that my competition is billion dollar corporations.
The hurdle from a personal standpoint is it's excessively
(27:48):
stressful. It takes a lot of guts and but
again, know thyself. So you learn all these great
things in the military and how to push yourself even further.
And that's everything in business like it's never easy if
you look for the cookie cutter answer to make you feel good
about going out on your own and with it doesn't matter with
(28:12):
barely any savings, but you havea really good idea and you can
work endless hours to achieve your your goals.
It none of it's none of it is fun.
Which again, some some. So I know I still know a lot of
green Berets. They're very good friends of
mine. One of them in particular has a
hilarious saying. We we were trying to figure out
(28:34):
like what is it about the chaos that is attractive?
Like why do we go around and tryto recreate it in so many
different scenarios? Safe, safe chaos.
Not like dangerous jump out of aplane without a.
Pair of safe chaos. Understood.
You know, like sometimes I'll just buy something.
I'll put something on my credit card at the beginning of the
month, just something expensive,just so I can scramble through
(28:56):
the 30 days to try to figure outa way to pay it off.
And he's like, why do we do that?
It's the most ridiculous thing, but it's just busy brains.
I think. I think it's I haven't quite
figured that portion of it out. And that obviously is is a very
funny example. But you know, when like if
there's no chaos, guys who are guys and gals who are they're
(29:16):
tempos, they got to go, go, go. There's there's this.
You might find that this might be an Ave. into why people, you
know, go into drugs or or anything for that matter, like
so how do you recreate the chaosin a safe manner to keep the
brain busy? And in my case, it was business.
It was like a constant challenge, a little bit of a
(29:38):
fear. It was a little scary at times,
a lot scary, but it was enough And like you got to find that
chaos that can you can have an ROI on right, You return on
investment. So if you can create I.
Really appreciate. That so much if you can.
If you can create chaos that youhave an ROI on, then you're
keeping your brain busy from, you know, your past life in the
(30:01):
military, you're keeping your body busy.
And now all of a sudden, when the dust settles, you've created
this wonderful business and that's huge.
And, and I've worked really hardat writing.
I've been, you know, vaguely writing a book more of like a so
I don't forget things writing itdown because I really wanted to
outline that for folks that you like this gentleman with the
(30:25):
credit card, you know, it's likestart a business instead of like
that's what happens after a while.
You just can only create so muchchaos or things to keep your
mind busy before you hit a wall and you're like, you're doing
things like that. And we we laugh about it.
You know, it's a joke. You know, he's very, very
responsible, very well off humanbeing, but he just it's a funny
(30:46):
thing. So how do we, how do we recreate
that? And then we, we take it and we
turn it into an investment or weturn it into, you know, a
product. And that's what I think I did,
but it took me some trial and error to do but.
Sure. I, I'm, I'm hearing what you're
saying because, you know, being a business owner is not for the
(31:06):
faint of heart. I think that for veterans, the
military connected community, it's a very, you know, feasible
route pathway, particularly to kind of have a little bit of
control of our lives and to seekout, I'd say like both passions,
things that are value aligned, because sometimes we don't find
(31:29):
that when we're, you know, sitting across the table and
interviewing with, with companies, particularly because
of the value set and the camaraderie we've we've been
with, right. So I think again, like the ups
and the downs of things, right, like having controlled chaos and
I, you know, prior service myself, right?
Like so as an NCO like I just you're given a little bit of
(31:51):
resource, a little bit of time, accomplish the goal and.
In there and you're set so you're set up so good for it
when you get out of the militaryto be a business owner, you
know, not everybody's not everybody is is going to be that
person. But generally, and you could
create some statistics and metrics to this about how many,
(32:14):
where did they come from? Who started, who started
businesses? Where did they come from?
What were they exposed to? And actually come up with a
statistic because there's enoughpeople getting out of the
military and starting businesses. 97%, I think it's 97
or 98% of the business in the United States are 250 employees
or less. So they're calculated as a small
(32:35):
business. And I guarantee you there's a
very good chunk of those, which we could easily find with
disabled veteran owned businesses right there.
We just and veteran owned businesses.
So you're set up for it when youget out of the military and you
have to, you have to create the right chaos that's going to give
you an ROI and there's. Plenty of programs out there.
(32:57):
There's plenty of programs that will kind of give you that
scaffolding and some framework for you to kind of lean into.
But there's AII this, again, just my assumption and also
speaking from my own experiences, like you got to
have an internal drive if you want to do the things right.
Like what you've just got to drive.
That's a. Tough one.
Right. What you've described to me too,
is getting into a real niche industry in the elevator
(33:19):
community, right? Like you're, you're in, you said
3 or 4 States and you want to expand more and you're going toe
to toe with, you know, companiesthat have been around probably
longer than yours, right? And how do you, how do you
compete with that? How do you create opportunities
for, for other veterans? How do you create opportunity
for yourself and your family andyou achieve your goals in this
(33:39):
controlled chaos setting? And that's why I think business
is so attractive to the very specific type of folks that come
out of the service. And I think you're a great
example of that because you've taken a lot of the value
alignment. You, you made some, you made
some hard, tough calls. You made the decision right,
(33:59):
like no decision is a decision. And you decided I'm going to go
go into this industry, I'm goingto start a business, I'm going
to network and be a part of these regional unions.
I'm going to have the mentorship.
And now I want to write things down and pass on those pearls of
wisdom because other folks need to hear it.
(34:22):
And they particularly need to hear it's OK, like, be humbled,
sit down and start over a littlebit because, like, veterans are
part of us. Yeah, and it is.
It's tough. And like the name of the book
was going to be CM, you know, like continue mission and 'cause
you know, you get, you deal withsomething on target and some,
you know, you get the CM you gotto keep going.
(34:44):
And that's kind of what it was going to be around.
Like, hey, average, average soldier, nothing too, nothing
too wild. And but but you definitely
weren't below the standard. Like those are the people I
think that suffered the most because they had such high
expectations. Like they were going to be.
And this just sounds going to sound silly, but at 18 year old,
18 years old, I put being in themilitary long before that age on
(35:07):
a pedestal. So when I got there and I didn't
have like Audie Murphy status. You have a little you have you
have you take a little bit of a hit and and you're just a young
man. You're you're a very young
person at 18. And that's that is the biggest
issue is that just for that guy that is just land somewheres in
(35:30):
the middle or gal that you, you got to find.
You got to find, like I said, know thyself.
You got to find out who you are.And then when you get out or
decide to get out, you have to keep that.
You have to stay busy as humanlypossible and apply it in the
right spots. And you, nobody's better set up
(35:51):
for it than somebody that's coming out of the military, in
my opinion. I so I understand completely
what you're talking about havinghaving gone through a a very
similar life path, figuring thatout, owning a business, seeking
employment elsewhere, like all the things, right?
(36:12):
What would advice would you giveto other veterans considering a
career in the trades? And what do you hope that the
Mac brothers represents in the long run?
So ask the first part again really quick.
Of course. What advice would you give to
(36:33):
other veterans considering a career in the trades?
So I think depending on your MOS, right, like I said, I did
something that was highly activewith behind a firearm, right.
So you chase your gun dream in those guys, guys and gals or I
think are absolutely set up to go into a construction trade,
(36:55):
right? Because you can comply the same
knowledge, right? You have a mission, you have an
objective. We have to go in there.
We have to do something. You're working with a team like
you have to you have to make those relations because that
what's the going to be the what's going to be the softest
way to reintroduce my persona into a completely different
workforce. So what I don't recommend is
(37:18):
somebody who's in that MOS goes and becomes a banker, right?
We have, we have a future disaster playing out in that
case, no offense to bankers, butyou, you see what I'm saying?
It's I, I, I don't, I don't see how that would work very well.
It might work. Maybe that's somebody's dream.
But in my opinion. And then if you're an MOS where
(37:40):
you're, there's electricians andengineering and mechanics, like
at a minimum, do something that you're, it is remotely relative
to, you know, that's, that's a huge piece of advice with
getting in the trades. And I think anybody who wants to
work with your hands and have a busy mind should be going in the
trades. Again, it's all, it's all based
(38:00):
on people's perception of reality and, and what they want
to do. Like if you feel satisfied after
getting a profit and loss reportsent in, then you know, you
should be an accountant or a banker.
But if that's not enough for you, then you need to be able to
finish building a plumbing header and walk away and turn
around and be like, I did that today.
You got to have, you have to have a start and a finish, but
(38:20):
type A people need a start and afinish and a product to observe
when it's when you're done, because then you have self
satisfaction. I think my generation in
particular, it's not taught enough today where it's like,
you know, you're supposed to putyour pride into something and
then turn around and look at it right when you're about to walk
off the job or walk out of the office building and say, I, I
(38:45):
did a good job today. Like I actually started
something, I did the 300 items in between that and the finish
to get it to the finish line. And I did it and you're supposed
to feel good and you're supposedto go home and be happy with
your spouse. And I just don't think it exists
anymore at all. Well.
You've raised a good point. A lot of us don't end up seeing
(39:05):
the final product and when we'rein the military, many of the
things we do, we actually get tosee the end result.
We get to be a part of the wholeprocess and we get to lead and
make decisions, right. And so a lot of folks who do
step into the white collar job pathway, right, nothing wrong
with that, right? There's, there's always going to
be someone hired to you. You're not going to be able to
implement the exact amount of change.
(39:26):
I think what you're describing in in the blue collar space and
the trade space is that if you are someone who really thrives
on like task completion and you know, making sure you're getting
the things done in the right order, or like there's
definitely some conscientiousness.
And this was also some some different traits, right?
Know thyself. That could be the feel for you.
(39:49):
Like, you know, there's a sayingit's like idle hands or
something like that. I can't think of what.
Yeah, yeah. But I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm hearing
what you're saying. And I, I think that there's a
lot of folks out there who will benefit from hearing like, know
yourself, don't like, you know, don't.
Not go the the trades route because of uncertainty.
(40:10):
Really think about who you are, what you want to accomplish,
what the avenues are for a business or getting that
experience in one of the trades.Whether you decide to go to
elevators or electrician or HVAC, whatever you decide to do.
And depending on your age, I mean, most of these programs do
OJT hours, on the job training hours and they'll put you
(40:30):
through school and four to five years.
Most trades, you'll have a journeyman's license or a full
license. So what's 4 years?
You're making money the whole time.
What's 4 years at a minimum? Go out and get a license and the
a trade. If you want to work with your
hands, you find one that, that you enjoy, go and get a license.
(40:52):
And then if you want to go to college, you become a brain
surgeon with the GI Bill. At least you have that license.
You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's huge to just,
you know, and then like young, young kids too, coming out of
high school and they're like, you know, I'm not really sure
it's the same principle applies.I'm not really sure what I want
to do to really finish off, finish off my, you know, my
(41:13):
forever job. So just the most of these places
are dying for help. And if you can work with your
hands and you can do a good job and be safe.
If you just put your head down and you pick it, next time you
pick it up, you're going to be ready to take your tests and
have a license. And what do electricians make
per hour? And what do plumbers make per
hour with a license? I mean, it is the trade is in
(41:34):
pain because we have lack of people, lack of candidates.
So it's it's a very simple thingto commit to and it'll keep you
busy. And at the end of all, but if
you're like, I still want to go become a brain surgeon, then at
least you have you'll never, that can never be taken away
from you. So like you said, idle hands,
which I know the saying. And the whole idea is that if
(41:56):
you just kind of sit there, I think I'll go to college, it
could be a waste. And that's not going to be a
waste if you put your time in with your hours in any local or
any trade. Absolutely no, I, I agree.
And, and Brian, I want to thank you so much for joining us today
because you've, you've given folks a lot to think about.
And this is a conversation that desperately needed and needs to
(42:19):
happen, particularly with where we're at in our our jobs.
You know, I think about how AI and how other things are being
infused into different career paths.
Things are changing, but I don'tthink that people being able to
work with their hands and no specific skills or how to fix
things are going to be going away anytime soon.
(42:40):
It's a huge opportunity for so many people, the 250,000 that
transition annually from the service, regardless of branch
for, for young kids who are eventhinking maybe I'll join the
service and I'll go and start that on the job training and
get, you know, a pathway that allows me to have that
mechanical electric, you know. Background, yes.
(43:02):
Like to your background, right, But I, I think that this
conversation needed to happen and I'm, I'm so appreciative for
all of your insight today and knowing that self is, I think
maybe what I'm going to coin this episode because it's so
true. You really have to take that
time to focus on the self, right?
We're very focused on selfless service during the service.
(43:25):
Doesn't mean it's not a part of our core, but there's a point
where you have to reflect, make those decisions and pursue what
makes you content and gives you peace.
And even if that's controlled chaos, it's your controlled
chaos. And I really appreciate you
being on today and and celebrating your journey.
I'm very proud of you. Something unique that you're
(43:47):
doing. I'm wishing you tremendous
amount of luck and expanding your business into different
states. I'm sure folks will be trying
to. Hey, can I get in touch with
Brian because I have questions. I'm interested in this space.
Tell me more about hard hats or helmets to hard hats, right?
And we'll put some links in the show notes too.
And if there's any of course, additional resources or things,
(44:09):
I would love to include those. But is that all being said?
Go ahead, Brian. Go ahead.
I said feel free to reach out with any other questions.
It was great. Thank you very much.
Of course, of course. And alphas, we are so happy that
you have joined as well. As always, please like,
subscribe and drop a rating on this show on Apple Podcast,
Spotify, or wherever you are listening and we will see you
(44:33):
soon.
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