Sheepdog movie tackles veterans’ stories about recovery, redemption and healing

 Get a sneak peek at “Sheepdog,” an uplifting, award-winning movie, inspired by countless first-hand accounts from veterans about recovery, redemption and the journey of healing.

Writer, director and actor Steven Grayhm and Emmy-winning actor Vondie Curtis Hall, who also stars in the film, are the guests in this episode of The American Legion Tango Alpha Lima podcast.

Grayhm talks about interviews with veterans from the Vietnam War, Global War on Terrorism, OIF and OEF, and others that serve as the basis for this uplifting movie that highlights Post Traumatic Growth.

Also in this episode, a record $23.3 billion in VA claims benefits, Buddy Checks for the Army during the holiday season, and more.

SHOW LINKS

EP287 - Doug Evans The Sprouts Guy

Fuel the Fight - Fund the Mission

Bart Womack - Tango 271

Sheepdog the Movie Website

Vet Tix

Join the USA250 Challenge

American Legion Be the One

Buddy Checks

Army leaders ordered to check in daily with soldiers over the holidays

Record year for American Legion Service Officers

Find a Service Officer

Support Service Officers and Military Families

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
We're. Back alphas.
We're coming in hot with inspiring guests, witty banter
and colorful commentary. Today's veterans and military
community. This is the Tal podcast.
All right, welcome, Alpha. Stacy is still out this week,
but Joe, what's she doing again?I believe that she's defending

(00:23):
her championship for the hot dogeating contest that she won.
Right, She's going up against Joey Chestnut.
Which chestnut competitor? He is the perennial winner, but
she's gonna give him a run for his dog.
But Joe, all Stacy's, All Stacy's.
Out throwing down buns. I have a couple of we have a

(00:43):
couple of great guests joining us today, Stephen Graham and Von
D Curtis Hall, who starred in the upcoming film Sheepdog,
which tells the story of Army veteran Calvin Cole, who is
placed under the care of a student who's training to become
Ava trauma therapist. Things get even more complicated
when his father-in-law, a Vietnam War veteran, shows up on

(01:07):
his doorstep after his release from prison.
The movie, inspired by countlessfirst hand testimonials about
recovery, redemption and the journey to healing that one's
very important, explores the physical and psychological
repercussions of trauma and focuses on post traumatic
growth. So I'm really excited for this
one. I think not too many veteran and

(01:30):
military films really focus on the journey to healing side and
all the things that, you know, we incorporate and talk about so
much. So really excited to and these
guys are they have been a round the Hollywood big screen and
small screen block some of the most prominent films and
projects and TV shows Die Hard 2coming to America.

(01:54):
I mean the the list goes on and on.
So we'll have that in online. Yeah, yeah, but what do you got
for us, Joe? So this is our last episode of
Season 6, and it has been, as you know, dear listeners, quite
a ride. The Tango team has big plans
that we're excited to share withyou for Season 7, which will

(02:17):
start in January. But we've also been thinking
about where we've been the past year.
My personal favorite guest from Season 6 was Ken Burns.
It was Episode 284 and we were talking about, you know, his
American Revolution documentary.So I the reason why I loved that

(02:37):
interview is because I love anyone who works hard to be a
master of the craft because you've got people that are
naturally gifted at something. It's obvious he's a natural
storyteller, but he's also willing to put in the work.
I can't imagine the amount of work it's taken throughout his
entire life of just sheer research to do even 1
documentary. I just the concept of that alone

(02:58):
is intimidating to me. And I write, but I write fiction
so if I don't know something I can just make it up.
Problem with documentaries is you can't do that.
I'm just I'm so impressed by by him and his easygoing demeanor
and just such a natural interview.
That was a really fun one. I've had a bunch of them, though

(03:19):
that was maybe that one being a little more recent is one reason
why it stuck out. But there were several really
good interviews that we had thisyear.
What about you, Adam? What's your favorite?
Yeah, I mean, I was super bombedto miss the the Ken Burns one.
We were, really. Excited we talked about you.
Yeah, we had we had to work, youknow, around his schedule and

(03:39):
stuff and I and I think you knowit just.
But man, that was that was such a great episode and you guys did
such a good job on that one. I'm like you, I sometimes, you
know, we get the list, you know,beforehand and or some of the
guests, you know, we kind of talked about and you know, some
some folks were, you know, you don't know much about and you
get on just completely, you know, kind of floor you one.

(04:03):
That was a really big surprise to me that I didn't really know
we were going to have until he got on.
Was episode 255 how military veterans can find their tribe?
But it was 4 star General Paul Funk and Colonel Adam Rock in
General Funk was one of the commanding generals at Fort
Riley when I was there. That was a good interview.

(04:24):
Yeah, that one was like that oneunexpectedly, like hit me
emotionally because that's, that's the unit I went to war
with. You know, that's, that's where I
was a platoon leader. That's where I was a company
commander and he was the face ofleadership and it was just like
it was a cool moment and it was like completely unexpected.
And so that one was like personally meaningful to me.

(04:45):
Another really cool one I reallyenjoyed was episode 277 from the
battlefield to the Grand Ole Opry Opry with Scotty Hastings.
And he's got such an incredible story of Army Service.
Go army beat Navy, you know, Purple Heart into now his his
music journey. His music journey is, you know,
quite incredible. And I got it.

(05:05):
I met, I met him actually for anevent a couple years ago just by
happenstance in Nashville. And then piece it together on
the show that he was in here, that we connected through some
mutual friends. And just to see his path and
his, you know, storytelling and I think storytelling through the
podcast, but through his music and his shows.

(05:25):
And then, you know, that's really what these opportunities
are. Excuse me, gosh, getting choked
up now it's it's the storytelling of these episodes
that's so powerful in every episode carries some emotional
weight and gravity to it or interesting in its in its own

(05:49):
regard. But those are a couple that
jumped out and there's one more sidebar that I'll put in, and
that was the the Sprouts guy. The Sprouts episode was so
unexpected. It was all the benefits of
eating like a sprout based diet,something I had given 0.000
seconds of thought to in my lifeabout how sprouts could, you

(06:13):
know, improve my general welfare.
And I just thought he had such an incredible story of, you
know, food insecurities and, andtrauma, you know, growing up
into what how that impacted him and what he did about it.
And so that's like one of those ones where you're just surprised
and you you don't even know thatit's how it's going to impact

(06:34):
you, you. Know, and you add in that sort
of thing in the back of of everyeverybody who serves mind like
what if you know what, what if Ineeded to feed my family and and
he has a really a long term solution.
I mean, for that, it was really an impressive episode.

(06:58):
Yeah, so those are just a few ofmy favorites.
But you know, honestly, every every episode you know, has it
has its own place and for sure. Yeah, well, so our you know, our
team has gathered our favorites and we'll be re releasing
interviews with some of our mostmemorable guests as bonus

(07:21):
episodes over the holidays. Make sure you subscribe to the
TA Leam on Spotify, Apple podcast, YouTube or wherever you
find podcast so you don't miss our countdown of 2025 and
everything new. It's coming your way in 2026 on
the 18th of December. Ken Burns and Mary Goth.
Goth here. Goth here go Shay.

(07:47):
I mean, good Lord. Mandatory fun day on the 22nd
with, you know, Austin and Doctor Tina Burke, and then on
the 23rd Kim and Samuel and Colonel Lee Ellis.
So you know, we're going to be promoting those.
Those are super incredible interviews.

(08:10):
I, I, I personally think that I,you know, I was mentioning when
we were going through the sort of pre show that I need to
finish that American Revolution documentary.
I, I started in on it and then, you know, life got caught up and
I love that era of, of, of America.

(08:33):
It's such an interesting time, you know, heartbreak and and
love and, and Ken Burns did a fantastic job of going through
and, and sharing some of that. So, but we'll have links for
that in the show notes as well. And, you know, we make sure you
check all the stuff out because it's, it's really, really,
really good, incredible, informative stuff.

(08:56):
Well, I'm excited for what we got ahead, like you said for
Season 7, but before we get to Season 7, we're going to
closeout Season 6. So stick around and we'll be
back with the new movie Sheepdog.
Stars of the new movie Sheepdog,Stephen Graham and Von D Curtis
Hall right after the break. This year, we have a golden

(09:16):
opportunity. No, make that a red, white and
blue opportunity to do somethingtruly special.
That's right, commander. This year, America is
celebrating its 250th birthday and the American Legion Family
will be leading the nationwide celebrations.
The American Legion Family USA 250 Challenge is a year long
celebration honoring our nation.You can participate in the

(09:39):
challenge by choosing one of thethree categories.
The three categories are community service, mental
Wellness, and physical activity.Whether you are doing 1-2 or all
three categories, you are makinga difference in the lives of
veterans and their families. Visit legion.org/USA 2:50 to
learn more and register for $30.00.

(10:02):
For your registration fee, you will get to choose a commutative
tech shirt and your donation support the American Legion
Veterans and Children Foundation.
Be a part of what makes our nation great.
Help us celebrate America. Join us in the USA 2:50
Challenge. All right, today we are joined

(10:31):
by the stars of the new movie Sheepdog.
I am so excited. If you have not seen the
trailer, go like pause us and gowatch the trailer right now.
It's going to give you chills with Stephen Graham and Mr.
Vandy Curtis Hall. Fellas, welcome to the Tal
podcast. Hey, welcome.
Thank you for having us. Thanks.
Very. Yeah, thanks for having us.

(10:52):
Great. Absolutely.
Gentlemen, it's it's great to have you both here.
You know, we were just kind of talking a little bit before we
kicked off about the the parallels in the work and the
excitement around this film. It's really unlike most of the
veteran films that are out there.
It's intimate and emotionally raw.
And while, you know, other veteran films might land in that

(11:12):
area, this is grounded in real testimonies and it really
focuses on the journey of healing, explores the physical
and psychological repercussions of trauma.
And this one very important, focuses on post traumatic
growth. Well done.
I would like just a little bit maybe first and Steven, maybe we

(11:34):
can start with you and then and go to Vani.
Just a little bit about your background and what led you, you
know, to this film. And I think, you know, the main
question to land on is what was the spark that led each of you
to this story? Sure, Yeah, sure.
That's that's a great question. So, you know, as a as a young
child, I grew up, my grandfatherwas widowed.

(11:59):
He moved into our family's houseand and I had bunk beds and I
slept on the top bunk. And at night I would fall asleep
to his stories. He was a Polish farmer that was
held captive on his land during the Nazi takeover of Poland.
And so he was a POW for five years and, and just underwent,
you know, just the most horrificchallenges that a human can

(12:23):
face. And, and he he, you know, often
told the story of of the American and allied troops
liberating them. And, and of course, if that
didn't happen, I wouldn't be here.
So I think growing up with that already in your, in your
bloodline, you kind of it, you know, it's going to come out
somewhere in terms of like feeling that there's maybe a

(12:46):
debt to pay or a love letter to write.
And so in 2011, my car broke down 3 hours north of LA and the
local tow truck driver that picked me up, we had a three
hour drive into town. And he began to open up about,
you know, the challenges he was facing in his life between, you

(13:07):
know, his marital issues, being the father of three, his
financial hardship. And then he began to open up
about all the various medications that he was on for
the VA that were tethered to histo his military service, to his
deployments. And, you know, I was very quiet
on that drive and I just listened to, when I got back to

(13:28):
LA, you know, I, I, I, I've saidthis before and I, I, I really
mean it. I, I, I saw a look in his eyes
that I was certain that he, there was probably comfort in
him likely never seeing me again.
And that was kind of the lesson in the moment, which was like
listening without prejudice and how much easier it is to share
with somebody who's a stranger. Because throughout that, that

(13:48):
drive, he kept saying to me, I've never told my wife this.
I haven't even told the therapist this.
So that was sort of, that's whatlit the spark to answer your
question. And, and I, and I do think it
was not just a sense of curiosity, but it was, it felt
like a sense of responsibility. So it was that summer that I set
out on the road to meet with veterans across the country,

(14:11):
anyone who would speak to me, mental health professionals, and
that began to sort of lay the foundation for what would become
Sheepdog. Wow, Steven Bondi.
Yeah, well, what drew me to it was a first the script and you

(14:34):
know, I I am of from the from the Vietnam era.
So I knew a lot of my closest friends coming out of high
school who who, who who who joined did not come back.
You know, when was when was gonewithin six months of his
deployment to to to Nam and, and, and then seeing them come

(14:59):
back in the climate of anti war climate and, you know, the
elimination of the draft. And that was all sort of my, my,
my period. And then, as I mentioned in
another interview, to this day, you know, having friends who
are, you know, who are recovering from cancer from

(15:20):
Agent Orange. You know, the, you know, this
summer I was with, with one of my friends who was who, you
know, so, so that drew me to it and the character being able to
play someone who so I could represent, you know, my age

(15:40):
group and those people that I knew and the pain that they had
coming back without the, the ticker tape parade.
So. So that was what drew me to the
project. If I can just reflect on kind of
the arc that's emerging from kind of both your responses and
and I think you just kind of landed on it to you, Vondi.

(16:01):
And and that's where you started, You know, Steven, with
your grandfather's, you know, service, what he endured, you
know, went through and in that generation, right, How that
permeates through, you know, through the the stories at that
home that, you know, fill, fill the foundation, You know, what
the the time period that you came back, you know, Mondi and
what that climate was like and, and how military folks were

(16:24):
coming home and not being received.
And then, you know, subsequently, Steven, that's a
quite a a moment with that specific individual.
And I've never heard anybody express it like that, but it
makes so much sense, You know, the openness and vulnerability
that he could have in that moment by knowing that he's

(16:45):
never going to see you again. And then also, you know, we
didn't talk about which we'll get into as both of your rich
and illustrious careers on the big screen and the silver
screens in front of cameras and behind cameras.
That gave you the skill sets andabilities to either identify
this role of Omni and be drawn to it or Steven to be able to to
start pinning it and putting it together.

(17:06):
So thank you. And, and I just want to jump in
here and, and say to you specifically, Steven, to be in a
moment that you realize was sucha sincere and vulnerable moment,
and then not only use it as a moment to reflect, but also to
take action. That's, that's huge.

(17:29):
I, I love when we start an interview and I immediately get
a sense that that some people are broad and some people are
deep. And, and not to say that you're
not broad people with multiple skill sets, but I see a depth in
both of you that that makes me think that this interview could
go on for three hours and we would still have things to say.
But I, I won't subject you to tobe hanging out with us that

(17:51):
long. But I do want to say, you know,
your careers, you've worked withacting giants, including the,
you know, Terry Crews, who's been relevant for I don't think
people realize how long that guy's been relevant, but he's
been loved for so long. But you know, you being able to
take these these people that you've been with and to carry on

(18:12):
these careers the way that you have, creating a powerful scenes
dealing with veteran isolation and pain as which is prevalent
in in what we know of Sheepdog so far.
How do you balance the artistic demands of acting with the
responsibility of, of accuratelyrepresenting the mental health
challenges faced by real servicemembers?
And so we had an interview with a gentleman named Bart Womack

(18:35):
who previously put it, how do you choose between real and real
REEL versus REAL, which I, I love that, that, but you have to
find a balance between those two.
What would, how did you do that?What was?
What was your your method there?I think the easiest answer to
that is that you don't overthinkit.

(18:58):
You can overthink it on the page, right, because you got to
do your research and get it right.
But by the time you get to set, you have to trust it with, with
decades long research and development, you have to trust
what's on the page. And so I tried to do my best to
refine and distill the story over the years.
And, you know, as, as I got older, the character got older

(19:20):
and, and, and then it like therewas variations of this that had
deployments in them and, you know, and I had, and they were
well written and well researchedand everything.
And, and, you know, six months prior to going to camera with
funding issues, I had to remove them or I wouldn't be able to
make the film. And that that behooved us
because because I'd written themlike I was able to see them and,

(19:44):
and, and, and embody them and, and how what it was told to me.
So the idea really was this, thebest answer I have is I just
never overthought it. I had to trust that the stories
that were shared with me over all the years were already
inside of me. And that and maybe why we often
get as a cast, as an ensemble, we often get feedback that, you

(20:06):
know, Mike Rowe said it on his podcast to me a few weeks ago
that that it feels like a great documentary.
And that's not because it's shotgorilla style, because it's not,
I mean, we're low budget film, but it's like sort of
classically shot as a film wouldbe made, but the performances
are nuanced and very grounded. And that and then that came

(20:30):
through all the casting for sure.
So, you know, you do you do rehearsal, which Mr. Hall can
talk about to just like make sure that you're there and you
can make some discoveries beforeyou put it in front of the
camera. And then you just, you know,
then you just go for it. So I think that that was a big
part of it is not to overthink it.

(20:50):
And you know, Mr. Hall, you know, I, I have to say, what
really stood out to me watching the trailer was the raw emotion.
I don't know what you tapped into with that, but I am so
excited to see it because and and I'm sorry because there's no
way that somebody can put that kind of emotion on film without

(21:11):
knowing what it feels like. So, you know, my heart goes out
to you. I don't know where exactly you
tapped into that, but I want youto know that I see it and I'm
really looking forward to seeingit.
Why am I getting emotional rightnow?
Sorry. I'm easy but but but but but an
uplifting journey as well. And there and there's and

(21:32):
there's humor in the film. So it's a great, it's a great,
it's a great arc. The, the, the, the story, the
narrative, the the post traumatic growth.
I mean, it's, I think it's a great movie.
My question is a little bit about what, what has been
revealed to you personally through the involvement with the

(21:56):
project in the different roles and, and Bonnie, maybe from you,
it's, it's more from, you know, the Vietnam Veterans and, and
what you were able to kind of honor in your performance.
And then I'm sure, you know, with, with this project, you
know, really having that spark in 2011 to where we're at now 14
years later. It's been quite a journey.
So I'm sure there's a lot of truths that have emerged, you

(22:18):
know, over these decade and and a half, I'm sure joining it at
different parts. But what, what was kind of like
revealed to you? And maybe there was some, you
know, preparation that led to the emergence of of that truth
or, you know, some, some kind of, you know, connection or
insight that you would share with the listeners.

(22:41):
Is that for me or is it for Steven?
Yeah, I think both of you honestly, and whoever wants to
jump in first. Well, I'll let Steven go because
his the 14 year journey, certainly.
So you're like, you're asking like what like sort of sticks
with you? Yeah, yeah.

(23:03):
I mean what, you know, it's such, it's such a journey in
this development of it. So what tapping in you know to
this world, what what are the truths that kind of revealed
themselves to you or one of the the main ones that you take
away? OK.
So early on, I would say with the first veteran that we sat
down with in McAllen, TX, we were Matt Dallas went on the

(23:26):
road with me. He plays my Co star, my best
friend, the film and we were very idealistic.
You know, we really, I'm going to change the world.
We're going to get the answers. So we set up a camera and in the
veteran that we're speaking withwas very honest and open.
It was a beautiful conversation.And then we we shut the camera
off, broke for lunch. And that's where the real story

(23:47):
happened. And that's where that veteran
said, hey, so you're the screenwriter, come over here.
I want to talk to you about something.
And he opened up about the military operation that loosely
inspired what my character talksabout in the film.
So I, I found that often times throughout my journey, it's in

(24:08):
the things sometimes that we don't say.
And I wanted that to be in the film, that it's just quiet
moments, you know? And when he shared that with me,
that was, you know, the that's where it became very real and
very personal. But I will say like a major take
away, and this is what I really want like civilians to

(24:28):
understand is that like, you know, it's ordinary people in
extraordinary circumstances. And that's really hard for a lot
of folks to like, wrap your headaround.
Like what is it actually like tobe in a foreign country in a
sheep pen in a village in the middle of the night jumping over

(24:53):
6 foot cinder block walls, not knowing what's on the other
side? What happens if your comms
aren't working? What happens?
Like anything can go wrong and it does.
And you're playing the ultimate extreme sport.
Like there's real fear. And the men and women that I sat
in front of and like that humanity is like, we lose that
because and I wanted to show that in the film because it's

(25:15):
not to be glossed over. Like, you know, Joe, even as as
as somebody who's, you know, hasa prosthetic leg, you know,
that's AI. And I met with men and women
that have had your experience and like you're still Joe that
came back-to-back home with thatexperience.

(25:37):
And then what does that mean foryou?
And it's, and that to me in my research was like it, it
humanized it so much where, you know, when, what other world do
you know somebody that has had that experience?
You know, and my character talksabout it.
When the gate comes down in the bird, when you can feel the heat
on your face, the smell of the air, it becomes very real.

(25:58):
It's not necessarily GI Joe, youknow, and I remember, you know,
a veteran saying to me just to wrap up on this point of like, I
think he might have been where you were, Joe.
I think he was in Fallujah and like that summer, his friends
were like barbecuing back in Kentucky, you know, just and the

(26:20):
thought of that, of like he could have had that.
And he's there serving his country.
And I think it's very hard when we really talk about sacrifice
and service, like especially when you're in your early 20s.
And this goes for all generations, even the Vietnam
era of like what that really means to be away from your
family. You know, I mean, my, both my

(26:42):
brother in law's are combat veterans, my, my wife's brothers
and my, my one of my brother in law's, his last deployment was
in 2016 in Afghanistan. And it was nerve racking.
Like I now really understand what it's like to like if
casualties come in and everyone's racing around to find

(27:02):
out and then you hear it's you know, he's a green Beret and
you're trying to think like it'sscary and it puts everybody on
edge for nine months until thesestateside.
And I that living through all ofthat and understanding that I
think it just brought out, I think I had empathy in the
beginning with the tow truck driver, but I definitely think

(27:23):
it brought out my humanity to fully understand what it really
is to say, you know, what a sacrifice or what a hero is.
Cuz that takes courage. And Steven, like us as somebody
who's like lives, you know, those things that you're
describing in the service, but Iwouldn't, you know, never really

(27:45):
take the time to to pour it out and describe it almost like so
poetically as you have. And it's, it's, it is, I mean,
it's, it's very like almost therapeutic just to listen to
you talk about our experiences in that way.
And like, as I'm sitting right here, I'm just thinking about

(28:05):
how do you like mechanically translate those into you, you
know, the, the actual film you're recording into the
delivery of this, you know, piece?
But thank, thank you for that. It's it's we need this.
We need the storytellers it. Makes us feel heard, you know,
in, in ways that I don't think that we think that other people

(28:27):
can really acknowledge. Some, an example would be the
difference between listening andhearing.
You know, it it's we talk all the time to try and support what
veterans do. And then every once in a while
you realize it matters that thatconversation that gentleman had
with you in that car was the, was the the kickoff for, for

(28:49):
where we are right now. And you never know.
You never know. A simple conversation for you
could be a core memory for someone else.
And so it's important to have these moments of vulnerability
when you feel safe with someone.So you in that moment, he needed
to talk and you were safe to talk to, maybe because you were
going to go away and never see him again.
But you know, whether he knew itor not, thousands and thousands

(29:10):
of people are going to know his story now, at least through the
spirit of what you're doing. So I, I didn't want to jump off
because Adam, I didn't know if you know, Mr. Hall, you wanted
to jump in on that as well, Kind.
Of flip it over to you, Vania, has there been other roles that
you had to dig into military culture and and personas before
or you know what, what as far aspreparing and and digging into

(29:34):
this role? Like, what's something that kind
of stands out to you? Well, you well, just in terms of
digging into this, I've played some I think I did a John Woo
movie where I was where I was inthe military.
I've done some military stories,but you know, that's shoot em

(29:56):
up, you know, but that's the GI Joe.
I played a lot of GI Joes, not alot of GI Joes, but, but you
know, but some of the stories, Imean, my, you know, Speaking of
talking about that kind of DNA, my father was, was a, was a
master Sergeant and, and my name, he named me after someone

(30:21):
who saved his life. So my name Vondi is the person
who's someone who saved his life.
And, and, and he says as, as in Steven says, Steven mentioned I
wouldn't be here if it weren't for that person.
So, so there's that, there's that kind of DNA that, that and

(30:44):
the stories he, he didn't talk, he didn't, he didn't talk a lot
about it actually. But you know, the little bit I
could get out of him was, was really, really resonated with
me. And so, and that's the thing, so
many people they get back, like my uncle, my father, you know,

(31:06):
my friends who came back, they didn't really talk a lot about
it. You know, it's they just didn't
want to deal. And so, yeah, so so I played
some some GI Joes, but but nothing resonates more than the
people that the real, the real people who who were in it, you

(31:31):
know, and sacrificed and were saved or saw someone die in
front of them, holding them in their arms or as in the movie
said, talks about turning you tosomeone turning into pink mist,
you know, next. So those are the things that are
that are real about it. You really, you really touched

(31:52):
on something that I want to circle back to you in in my next
question, but I I know Joe's itching to to fire.
I've, I've only got about 400 questions so, so we'll, you
know, we'll get started on them.So I, I think that if you guys
had been given a billion dollars, the movie wouldn't have
the heart that it has. And, and I, I hate that you guys

(32:14):
had to fight through what you did.
But I, I am an, an author on I, and I write, I write fantasy.
I'm not plugging my book. I'm saying this because I wrote
out an entire scene that was very emotional and I thought
there was some of my best writing and I couldn't use it.
It just wouldn't work. But I developed the character in

(32:37):
a way that it made everything I did from then on easier.
So you having those combat scenes in this overseas
deployment moments already builtout in your head, grounded the
character in something that was real that that you were able to
build from. And so for me, when I got my
cover back, we had already paid the guy and they had designed

(32:58):
this thing. And when I got the cover back,
there was something that was completely mixed up from what
was intended on the cover. And instead of fighting with
that guy, which would have been more expensive, I've changed a
part of my story. And it's one of my favorite
things in the story now. And so you did this, this
necessity. Breeding is, is the mother of

(33:20):
innovation. You know, you guys did something
instead of of having this money and being able to do all this
big stuff. It's like we've got to do the
heart. That's what we've got to do.
We've got to hit this story and these characters need to feel
real. So this micro production budget,
you're focused on authenticity. What was the payoff?
Because you know, for me, when Ifinished writing that that one

(33:42):
scene, I was like, now this clicks.
It all makes sense. I would love to hear from both
of you. That moment when when you kind
of stand up and you're like, I mean, I kind of did a killer
job, right? And you can't say that, you
know, but but you know, you stand up and you go, yeah, I
kind of killed that. That was fantastic.
Like. What I would say, look, there's

(34:05):
been profound moments over the last year on the Film Festival
circuit where, I mean, we sold out across the country from
everywhere from Florida to Omahato Iowa to California to Texas
to New York, Boston, I mean, everywhere.
And, and having a Vietnam veteran stand up in the audience

(34:28):
and say UF and nailed it and just sit back down in tears.
Having, you know, even in Naples, FL, a World War 2
veteran, I think he was 102 and he was with his entire family
and he hugged me in tears and whispered in my ear and he just
said thank you. Having the OIF and OEF vets

(34:51):
stand up with their families andin tears and just saying, I wish
I had this movie 10 years ago when I got out.
I wish I had it to show my family so they could see why I
am the way I am, but also why they are the way they are.
So I think that that to me because, because we made it for,

(35:12):
for them, we made it for you guys, right?
And then we made it for your communities and your families
and, and, and to tell your, to help tell your stories carefully
and authentically and honestly. So I think that like, look like
we still got a mountain to climb.
You know, Sheepdog comes out nationwide in, in January And,

(35:35):
you know, we, we just, we reallyhope it finds an audience.
We really hope folks, you know what we're partnered with, with
vet ticks as you know, vet ticksand 1st ticks.
So it's the first movie they've ever partnered with.
And, and I, and I'll just share this information and I'm sure we
can put it in the body of this, but if you go to
sheepdogthemovie.com, you can pay it forward.

(35:57):
The link will take you right to Vet Ticks.
It's 100% tax deductible. Vet Ticks will then distribute
tickets through Fandango to veterans, first responders and
their families to see Sheepdog in theaters in January.
So, you know, stuff like that is, is just like what an
incredible honor. And and Steve Weintraub over at

(36:20):
Vet Ticks has just been a huge champion of the film.
And you know, we shot a spot with him that just came out on
on Giving Tuesday yesterday. So, so we're we're still
climbing the mountain here. We're still pushing that boulder
up. And you know, I think, you know,
I don't know if the brushing thedust off your shoulder moment

(36:41):
that certainly hasn't happened yet, but I would say would be
pretty great that the film was received in January.
And it gets out there and it canit can help people and people
can relate to it and it can spark a conversation, you know,
whether you're leaving the theater and you go out to dinner
or whether you're driving home in the car.

(37:03):
I've heard so many stories like that from our festival circuit
run where people have reached out to us.
And I'd also like to say just really quickly too, that
Lieutenant Colonel David Grossman, who who we quote in
the opening of the movie, the sheepdog quote, he wrote me a
beautiful e-mail the other day. I sent him a Screener to the

(37:23):
film and gave his full endorsement.
And to even call me brother, like a sheepdog brother, was
very emotional because I feel like that metaphor that we took
wasn't that metaphor at home. Was the wolf at your door,
Right. Calvin was protecting the flock

(37:45):
in his service, and the wolf wasthe enemy and at home.
That wolf at his door was the trauma that he was dealing with.
And I think that you can open that metaphor up to the other
characters, especially Mr. Hall's character in the film of
protecting the flock. Well, I think it's going to

(38:08):
find, I think it's going to findan audience.
And I think one of the reasons and one of the reasons I want to
uncover just a little bit more. And that's about the focus on
the post traumatic growth. Because kind of to your point,
Bonnie, it, it wasn't just AGI Joe 80s and 90s movie that we
all grew up on. And that's what we took to to

(38:28):
war with us. But none of those.
They just showed the the broken veteran, you know, born on the
4th of July and you know, maybe Forrest Gump like a a little bit
like on the other side. But you know, the work that it
was talking about in veteran mental health advocacy to find
these programs and these therapies, like lives were lost
from our literal brothers, you know, brothers in arms and

(38:51):
service members while we're justdoing what we're told to do.
But then there's these this whole network and community of
treatments. And then there's this moment in
time where it's no longer a lifesentence.
You're able to return and becomewhole again in ways that you
didn't know was achievable. You can show up in your
community. You can be that husband and

(39:11):
father, you you can pour out from a full cup.
And this part of the story is sountold because we've had to
figure out ways to to make it through there.
So Steven, I mean, 14 years of interviews and research.

(39:32):
I know that we, we started our nonprofit in 20, our first
nonprofit in 2015. I had to learn about the
neuroplasticity of the brain. I'm like, I'm an Apache
helicopter pilot. What do I know about this?
I become an expert in things I didn't even know possible.
So I, I know you have, you know,kind of too, what was kind of
high level, what you would shareabout, you know, learning the

(39:55):
science, learning about, you know, the, the community and the
heart, you know, and bring that to film.
We talked about all those things, but there's this
underlying, you know, kind of offering of, of how to heal from
these things that you're presenting in a way that hasn't
been done before. That's that's of interest to me
and I think to our community. Well, I think, I think just on

(40:15):
the technical side of things like having an office at the VA
for several years at the VA Medical Center in Detroit.
You know, I was role-playing with trauma therapist,
neurologist, neuropsychologist for years to like really
understand. And I didn't want to truncate
the story to make it an industrial film.
It had to be entertaining, of course, and moving and and so

(40:36):
on. But it was critical that it was
well informed. And, you know, I spent some time
at the Center for Brain Health in Dallas.
And then of course, you know, some of the VA shelters, the one
in Detroit and across the country.
So that informs sort of that technical side.
But just things like 2011 I became very close with a Gold

(41:03):
Star mother whose son again his his legacy was killed in action
June 4th, 2008. And that's loosely inspired the
sheep pen story is. That Debbie Lee.
No, that's Beneva Jaquet is her name, but but Debbie Emmerd,
that's another Gold Star mother whose son was killed in that

(41:26):
pen. And of course, the the Duffy
family, Shane Duffy. So, so the Gold Star mother,
Beneva, I'd only met her. We're three months into our
friendship and she was invited to do to the White House to do a
Gold Star family members event where you go and hang a a
Christmas, Christmas ornament onthe presidential tree.

(41:51):
And I didn't feel like I had earned the moment.
So I was like, let me earn this.You take somebody in the family
and she's like, no, you need to be there and you need to see
this for yourself. And I think that like being in
that room as all these families that were standing in the White
House just watching on a projection TV as their loved

(42:15):
ones came up in service and and hearing the gasps, it's almost
like they were reliving it all over again.
And then having like a child come up to me who's wearing AT
shirt with her deceased brother in uniform on it and just trying
to hold it together to be strongfor her.

(42:36):
And she's just like trying to tell me a story about her
brother. And I'm all ears and get down on
the knee and I'm just listening.And, and I think that those
sorts of things like just, they stay with you forever for the
rest of your life, but also really inform the tonality of
how I was even going to direct my wonderful cast of like what

(42:59):
this took. And, and, and Mr. Hall, I, I
will share the story to this andI, I won't get too far off a
path here, but when my characteris describing Mr. Hall's
character's son's service and, and what happens to him during
his service. Beneva, she had known this, but

(43:22):
I, I, I, I had met with multiplepeople in her son's unit, his
even, you know, the guys that were in his team, in his squad.
And, and I had been, I had been given the Oakley eyewear that
her son had on his body when he was killed in action.

(43:45):
It literally had specks of dust from the terrain there.
And I kept it. I'm not going to get emotional
either, but it leads to this. And I kept it safe in a box and
I, and I never opened it right, because what do you do with
something like that, right? But I brought it to set, not
knowing is this, this, what do we do?

(44:09):
And I remember when Boniva came on set and because she's in one
of the scenes, but she was thereon set and I opened it up and I
put it into Mr. Hall's hands. And then I told Mr. Hall the
story, put it back in the box, and I returned it to its
rightful owner, which is Beneva,who's there on set.

(44:31):
And then we rolled camera on thescene where that's where Mr.
Hall's character is learning about his son's his son's
service. And so it's stuff like that that
like you never think after 14 years of meeting somebody and
then, you know, and that's just that just an incredible honor.

(44:53):
And, and just, you know, Mr. Hall's performance is just
stunning. I'm already too excited for this
movie and you're only increasingthe impatience.
I I I don't look at trailers formovies that I know I'm going to
want to see until I can watch itusually, or at least until I'm

(45:16):
like a week out. So this is killing me.
That's amazing. Yeah.
We're I, I, all of us are feeling that anticipation and,
and it's been a long haul, you know, we, it's been a long haul,
but, but we have just in, in your sentiment there, it's, it's

(45:38):
been my God, an honor and, and, and well worth it.
And, and, you know, and we're just as challenging as this
journey has been, I'm just so grateful because everything that
could go wrong making the movie went wrong, right?
But everything that could go right in the storytelling, it
was captured. And that's why I said when we

(46:00):
talked earlier in the preamble, just if you gave me $20 million
right now, if you lost all the footage and we're like, go
reshoot this. And you know, here's $20
million, I wouldn't take your money.
There's, there's no way. Like, there's just no way of
what, how it all came together, you know, under this pressure

(46:22):
cooker, you know, and it was captured on screen together.
That. Way, yeah, for a moment.
In time. Yeah.
So one last question, we're verylow on time here, but I, I did
want to ask one more. You know, you, you guys have
both found in your life opportunities to, to serve, you
know, filmmaking and, and mentoring for you, Mr. Hall.

(46:46):
But what, what is a piece of advice for those people that
think that they can't make a difference, Those people that
that are coming out of the military are people that want to
find different ways of being a part of of of sharing stories.
What is a piece of advice you would offer a veteran listening
right now who's looking to transition from this military

(47:06):
discipline that they're part of right now into a creative field
like writing, directing and and acting?
What kind of encouragement couldyou give someone who's who's
looking to do that transition themselves?
Is that Steven or who you want? That has to be you, Mr. Hall.
That's to give us some sage wisdom we all need.

(47:31):
I love this interview y'all. This is so.
I seriously love this. Yeah, it, it's great.
It's a great interview and I, I feel like we could, we could
talk forever. It's really great in talking
about the movie and you guys, your, your service.
Thank you for that. And, and just your, your, your,
your spirit and your hearts are just, you know, moving through,

(47:53):
through the, through the, through the, through the screen.
To me, I, I would say start and start and do something every
day, a little thing every day, yes, toward your vision, your
dream. And this you don't have to have

(48:14):
so much money now to tell, to get your story out there.
There's so many ways, so many ways to to be storytellers and
so do something every day in it.And the difference between, you
know, this journey and just a little bit every day and where
that ends, you know, in a year or two years or five years is

(48:40):
enormous. So that would be my advice.
Well, it's incredible. Sage advice and echo the same
sentiments as everybody else. It's been an absolute pleasure
to have both of you here and spend this time with us.
Mr. Hall, go to you first and then Steven.
Is there anything you want to share with our listeners that we

(49:01):
didn't have the opportunity to discuss before we close out?
No, just I, I, I watched the movie again.
We had a big screening in New York.
We had screenings in LA and New York with with Q&A BBNBN after

(49:23):
them and I was at the New York when we had a nice full house
and I saw the film again and I would just urge it was such a
treat and I've seen it a few times and just the watching this
movie is just a wonderful experience.
So yeah, I would encourage anybody who can see it to see

(49:45):
it. And I would say and thank you,
Mr. Hall, I and I would say it was those screens were were
great and the feedback was just so amazing.
I would just say, you know, if you're someone out there
listening right now, you know, that feels alone in your

(50:06):
experience to know that that youdon't have to do it alone, that
there are so many services that are out there and programs,
community outreach that's there.And it can just start with
something as simple as like picking up the phone or sending

(50:27):
a text to somebody served with who maybe you haven't spoken to
in a long time and might really want to hear from you, you know,
and I, cuz I think that that connective tissue is, is really
important and, and sometimes canbe incredibly challenging.
So I would say that just on a very simple level.

(50:48):
And then and then for civilians,I really do believe that, you
know, when you when you do meet a veteran, just asking how they
are or, or tell me a little bit about your service can go a
really long way and, and build arelationship.
And, and I count all the veterans that I have in my life

(51:10):
that I consider family now to besome of the most wonderful,
loyal people that I could ever have the good fortune to be in
the company of. And then lastly, I would just
say that, you know, as we said, Sheepdog is in selected theaters
in December this month and then it will go nationwide in

(51:31):
January. So to check your local listings
and then you can also go to sheepdogthemovie.com.
We have a partnership with Vet Ticks.
As we said, go to Vet Ticks if you're not a member yet, sign
up. Whether you're getting tickets,
donated tickets for Sheepdog or for a local sporting event or a

(51:52):
music concert. It's a wonderful platform and
they are just such a wonderful group of people over there.
So I just want to thank you all so much for for sharing your
platform with us and shining a light on the the plight of our
veterans. That's great.
You guys have been an absolute blessing.
We can't thank you guys enough. Stephen Vondi This means a lot

(52:16):
to spend this time with us. Time is the one thing that that
you're going to run out of no matter what.
So alphas make sure that you yougo to vet ticks and, and you
know, get your tickets or, or, you know, maybe be a blessing
for somebody else and stick around for some scuttlebutt
after the break. The reason that I'm serving
because not only we serve our nation, we serve individual

(52:37):
units. We serve individual veterans and
their family. And so service doesn't end when
you're not on active duty, if, as a matter of fact, it actually
increase because there's a need throughout the United States for
veterans and their family. And so I want to do my part as
long as I have a physical and mental capability.

(53:00):
And as you notice on my jacket, it says servant leader.
And so to answer your question, that's what leaders do We serve.
And so here we are in Washington, DC.
OK, OK. OK, All right, alphas, we hope

(53:24):
you had a great break. Now it's time for some scuttle.
Bootay, Bootay. All right Joe, I just want you
to know that Soldiers in the Army will receive a check in
from their leadership each day during the holiday season to
combat suicide and self harm, Army Secretary Daniel Driscoll
announced in a memo that was disseminated across the force in

(53:45):
November through January 15th, 2026.
An officer or NCO will check in on every soldier daily to see if
they need help, Driscoll said inthe memo, with a plea for those
struggling to pick up your phoneand accept help during a season
he said could leave people especially at risk.
In the memo, which has since been posted and widely shared on

(54:08):
social media, Driscoll, who served in the Army, recounted
his own struggles during Ranger School.
Ranger School's winter mountain phase nearly broke me.
I slipped and fell, couldn't getup and the cold crushed me.
I was done in that moment, but my Ranger Butters buddies picked
me up and helped me start movingagain, he said, adding that was

(54:29):
the inflection point for me. I realized no one can go through
life alone. We all break eventually and we
need each other. Driscoll called on the force to
prioritize supporting each otherduring the holiday season and
noted grim statistics. Last year we lost 260 soldiers
to suicide, he said, adding thatsigning those letters of

(54:53):
condolence and knowing we could have helped is heartbreaking.
I wish we never had to write another one.
The 2023 Annual Report on Suicide in the Military,
conducted by the Department of Defense found that 523 service
members across different branches and components of
service died by suicide during the calendar year.

(55:16):
This is a really interesting because we report so much on
veteran suicide, but like these numbers are shocking and
alarming on the on the active side, the The report also found
that young enlisted males soldiers not not surprising
here, tallied the most suicide deaths and that suicide rates

(55:37):
for active duty service members gradually increased between 2011
and 2023. At the bottom of Driscoll's
memo, he included QR codes that link to mental health support
troops. Veterans and family members
experiencing suicidal thoughts can call the 24 hour Suicide in
Crisis Lifeline at 988 and dial 1.

(56:00):
You can text 838255 or visit theVeterans crisisline.net.
It's a really those numbers are alarming.
And yeah, I mean, I think for mespecifically too, I, I was
unaware of of that tally. I'm more familiar with the the

(56:20):
veteran statistic, which is honestly anywhere from 17 to 44
a day. It's about 6000 a year, every
year for the last 20 years without statistical change.
But this is indicative of, you know, young males, right?
The why, why that population group?

(56:41):
It's, it's hard in that environment, in that culture to
ask for help. It's not really built in that
way. I mean, there's, there's help
when you've fallen and you're like, you know, executing on, on
a target, right? So there's like, there's there's
tactical help, but then there's this perceived weakness, the

(57:07):
mental health moniker being taken away from the active duty
tasks, you know, that you're assigned to.
And therefore it's just going tobe easier for me to take this on
and suffer in silence. And so I think this is really
kind of breaking through that. And you know, it's hard when you

(57:27):
do like a, a force letter where everybody's going to call and
you're going to check in every single day.
And you know, some sometimes that may be received by the
troops in different ways, but it's like, what do you do to be
able to actually move the needle?
Like you have to take extreme measures at some point to really
combat this. It's not, unfortunately, it's

(57:50):
not the people that are going toget irritated by this that need
the help. It's the people that, you know,
they really need it that that this is for.
Obviously. I just want to say also that if
you'll, if you'll look at that time frame of the gradual
increase, that's also the time frame that social media became
more prevalent. And, and I say that not against

(58:13):
social media. I think social media is a
fantastic way to stay in touch with people without that you
don't have access to otherwise. But it's created this false
sense of connection that doesn'ttruly feel real in your heart.
And so an example would be when I shoot you a message to say,

(58:33):
hey, man, you know, how's the family doing or whatever, or I
message you on Instagram, say, Hey, your family looks great.
You get this thing in your head,like, OK, cool.
I don't need to check in on Adam.
That was me making contact. But it doesn't work that way.
You need to hear someone's voice.
You do, you just you do. And and there's nothing that's
going to make me feel better when I'm upset than having

(58:55):
somebody that I care about therefor me, I'm a hugger.
So for me it's a hug. But not everybody's that way.
Sometimes somebody just wants tosit down and watch a movie or
sit in front of a fire and or goon a road trip.
You know, you need these, those moments of touch point contact,
true touch point contact. We used to have those all the
time because that was the way that that the world was.

(59:17):
And now the world, it's easier to get this false sense of check
in where you think, you know, how somebody's doing because
they posted a picture of themselves smiling.
You're like, hey, you look great.
You know, we should get togethersoon.
Cool. Yeah.
And then, you know, how many times have has somebody done
something like that? And then a week later somebody's
like, oh, my gosh, did you hear about so And so we all know
personal stories just like that.Social media is not real social.

(59:40):
It's just not. You got to touch, you got to
touch. You got to get in front of
people, man. You said something that really
landed with me and that is the people who are frustrated or
bothered, you know, by the call 'cause it's kind of like, you
know, So what? That's that's not the purpose of
all this. And we will gladly take that on.

(01:00:01):
We will gladly take your frustration this get in line and
receive this call every day. Why?
Because potentially, you know, what if this broken over 12
potentially. 100 lives could be saved.
I mean, that's a whole infantry company.
It's like the like a whole infantry company is like
potentially on the line of beingwiped out this holiday season.

(01:00:21):
And when you can put it in that way, then it's like you'd
welcome it if we. Lost 100 soldiers or marine
somewhere. The whole world would know about
it. Oh.
Yeah, I mean. You'd want one, yeah, you know,
2. 15 they would be we would start a.
Whole. War over something like that.
So. I'm throwing that number

(01:00:42):
arbitrarily out there. 523 service members in 2023, you
know, so you know, maybe potentially 20, you know, over
the course of the month, maybe more because it happens more in
isolation, out of community, disconnected.
Not to forget our, you know, oursailors and, and and airmen too.
You know, I didn't want to, I, Imentioned, you know, Army and,

(01:01:06):
and Marines, but, but really didI think in some ways I got to
speak a couple of weeks ago at Thanksgiving for a unit up in
New Mexico. And when I was going through a
little bit of my story, I, I, there were no like looks of
pity. There was looks of
understanding. That's my least favorite thing

(01:01:27):
to see out there. When I'm talking about my story
and the struggles I've been through the I want to see
people. I'd rather somebody look at me
and feel a little bit of pity for what I've gone through,
which I don't want, but I'd rather have that than somebody
then have that look on their face that they know, like they
get it. That breaks my heart.
And our, you know, our Air Forceguys out there are sailors out
there. You're you're, you know, the

(01:01:49):
things that you've been through the harder parts up here.
I'm missing a leg. Well, I'm not missing.
I knew where it went, but I thisis the hard part.
You know, it really is, it's really the hard part and it
doesn't get easier with time. It's not something that you can
just push away and you know, it's not like a cold.
It's not like being a little bit, you know, a little bit down

(01:02:09):
in the dumps. You know, it's a legitimate
thing that has to be fought. So, you know, fight.
Well said, Joe well said. All right off us, remember the
to be the one. Keep doing buddy checks as well.
This is something that we can dowithin our own ranks.
Check in on on your veterans, check in on your friends and

(01:02:30):
columns and your family and yourfriends and find those
opportunities to be in communityone another this season as well.
Joe, what you got for us? So accredited American Legion
Service officers secured a record $23,289,379,651 in

(01:02:51):
disability benefits for veteransin fiscal 24 to 25, according to
newly released data. American Legion Service officers
do not charge veterans for the representation in the VA claims
process. So if you are yourself
struggling and are intimidated by this, call the American
Legion, call the American Legion.

(01:03:12):
So 2025 total brings the amount of disability benefits achieved
for veterans using accredited American Legion service officers
to $108.7 billion since 2020. And so, so far in the new fiscal
year, the Legions network of more than 3000 accredited
service officers has not slowed down, having helped disabled

(01:03:32):
veterans and qualified dependents receive more than 2
billion in October alone. The awards include disability
compensation, pensions to include death and survivor
benefits, dependency and indemnity compensation, and
spina bifida benefits. They do not include education
and veteran readiness benefit programs.

(01:03:52):
But let's break that down so youget an idea of how much money
we're talking about. What can you buy?
What would you buy with a billion dollars, Adam?
I love that clip where Kanye's in there with Joe Rogan.
It's like, how much, how much does the whole earth cost?

(01:04:13):
I'm a I'm a buy it. You know, he's talking about the
invention of money. But yeah, buy with a billion
dollars, man, honestly, mine is is not so materialistic on what
I would buy. Yeah, it's how I would invest it
and I would invest it into theseveteran non profit organizations

(01:04:35):
that have emerged over the last 10 years that are providing all
these new therapies and conducting all the research.
And I would like funnel it into that to scale like the impact
that they're having. That's how I would use a billion
dollars. You know, it's funny because you
go through a stage. I think for me, it hit when I
was 40 where where I wanted peace instead of like things and

(01:04:55):
like, you know, if I had a billion dollars, I'd buy a
mansion in LA, you know, or something like that.
It's not that anymore. I'm very happy where I'm at.
Not to say I wouldn't buy something nice, but I want to
travel. I would love to be like, hey,
Adam, let's go to Greece. You know, I would just love to
be able to do something like that.
But but also to be able to reachout to veterans and give them an

(01:05:17):
opportunity to live their dreams.
You know, I mean, it would be socool to help people with
business ideas and things like that and to get them training,
not necessarily the. Innovation Fund.
Yes, that would that would be really cool.
But but what what you can do with a billion dollars outside
of spending it all on on automated dining facilities is

(01:05:39):
throughout the US, the average person spends about $1600 per
month on rent. If you had a billion dollars,
that would cover your rent for the next 50,968 years.
Do you like cars, Adam? You like You like cars.
Do you like a good truck? I.
Like a good truck, if you add a billion dollars you could buy
the new Porsche 718 boxer for you and 13,350 of your closest

(01:06:06):
friends. I don't know if I'm fitting
inside a Porsche Boxster so well.
No, yeah, we're not boxer men. We're.
Like I can't like super. We're box truck men.
I'll, I'll look at the supercar from the outside.
Oh that looks super fast. Not fast.
Yeah, I, I, I definitely, I agree with you there.

(01:06:27):
If I don't think that the the boxer boxer is, is for us.
But feeling hungry, your billioncould buy 671,000,000 burritos
from Taco Bell. You know, back in my day it
would have bought 1.2 and they were like $0.89. 1.2 billion.
From Taco. So that's enough to feed every

(01:06:49):
single person in Japan, Germany,France, Sweden, Palestine,
Ghana, Spain, Poland, Australia,South Africa, Brazil, and every
single one of your neighbors living in the greater Atlanta
metropolitan area. Or my neighbors, I should say
for you. You live in LA, right?
Lower Alabama. LA That's right.
Yeah. What?

(01:07:09):
That's enough to what? Feed them 11 burrito.
Yeah, but if you cut it in half,it's like 2 burritos.
Burritos are like worms. I can't.
I think. 1 1/2 before I got to go to the bathroom for.
Example, just like a worm. So Speaking of burritos, as a
sidebar here, if you think you've had a burrito until you

(01:07:29):
go out to New Mexico, I've got family, brother-in-law stationed
out there where I, you know, I did that talk and I love them.
But the whole reason I go out there is green chili breakfast
burritos. I'm just going to be honest, I
haven't had a bad one. I've ate in like 7 different
restaurants out there and there's nothing better than
green chili breakfast burritos. And, and with a billion dollars,
I could buy almost 700 million of them.

(01:07:53):
So but let's say you wanted to give your billion to charity.
If you gave away a dollar per second, it would take you.
Yeah, yeah. But if you give it to charity,
if you gave away a dollar per second, it would take you over
16 minutes to give away $1000. It would take over 11 1/2 days
to give away 1,000,000 and over 31 years to give away all 1

(01:08:17):
billion. So that's when I tell people
that the difference between a million and a billion is, is it
takes less than 12 days to countto 1,000,031 years.
Like it's people. I think people mentally, you,
you, you get into those big numbers and you, you stop being
able to visualize as well. And so you, and, and for some

(01:08:39):
reason, I think a lot of people assume that it's like 100
million, but you know, it's not.But like subconsciously you
think it's just, you know, as much smaller number than it is.
But you can count to 1,000,000 in 11 1/2 days.
And if you try to count to a billion, 31.7 years.
So let's do it. No.

(01:09:03):
The amount of time I think abouthow much a million is versus a
billion versus a trillion is almost non existent.
Well, I've started it now. Welcome.
Welcome to the freak show, buddyyou.
Actually have I'm like. See, I knew it the first time
you really get it. You'll never, you'll never
forget it. It was like for me, the first

(01:09:24):
time I ever read about time dilation.
I'm like, I've not been able to stop thinking about it ever.
And I don't understand it, but Ican explain it to other people.
But even still, to give away 23.2 billion, that would take
735 1/2 years. So these 3000 service officers
have secured that amount of money for veterans in just one

(01:09:45):
year, $1 billion in one year. That's pretty astounding.
But in addition to the initial claims assistance, the American
Legion provides free representation for veterans to
appeal VA decisions. Through November 30th, 2025, the
Legions Appeals team in Washington, DC and Indianapolis
had 11,615 cases for the year and secured 48.4 million in

(01:10:09):
retroactive benefits for veterans and surviving spouses.
Where appeals were successful. Training for the American Legion
Service Officers is made possible through donations to
the American Legion Veterans andChildren's Foundation.
We'll have links in our show notes where you can find a
service officer to help you withyour claim or donate to the
Veterans and Children Foundation.
So there you go, we got the shownotes and you can support.

(01:10:32):
It and then bringing in that dollar dollar bill y'all all.
Right. I, I, I want to add one more
thing actually, if people are going to charge you for, for
this service, be very careful, Do your research.
If people are going to charge you because they'll, a lot of
times what they'll do is say, hey, if you just give us 10% of
the bulk pay you get from the last eight years that you've
been fighting for this benefit or, or whatever your back pay

(01:10:54):
is, those people get a huge chunk of change and they're not
going to do anything any better than then the American Legion
can do it. So there, I'm done off my
soapbox. Nice PSA Joe OK, here we are,
the end of season 6. What's your Season 6 personal
thoughts here at the end in any holiday wishes that you have?

(01:11:16):
I, you know, as hard as this year has been in a lot of ways,
I've taken control of myself in a way that I don't think that I
did before. And, and part of that is seeing
all these incredible people thatwe talked to and what they're
doing. It reminds me of the impact that
that we can have. And it reminds me that for so

(01:11:37):
long I've given of myself in ways that that have filled my
spirit up, but I've also let it get too out of whack.
The balance has gotten too far out of whack.
And I haven't done anything justselfish for me in a long time.
And what I found is as I startedmaking it, making myself do

(01:11:58):
things that I wanted to do that I've always dreamed of doing,
like writing and narrating and, and things like that, it's
actually made me better at giving again and better.
It's like it's done something really, really special for me.
This past year has been something that has opened my
eyes up to a lot of things. The impact that I can have, not
just on, on veterans as a corpsman, that's what I want to

(01:12:20):
do is impact people's lives in agood way, But also it's, it's,
it's reminded me that, that I need to, you know, put my
proverbial spiritual gas mask onbefore I help other people too.
And, and I needed that. I needed that.
I've been getting tired, you know, it's been sneaking up on
me. And I'm, I'm glad to be in a
better place. I'm busier, but I'm happier.

(01:12:45):
It's great, Joe, Appreciate that.
You're great. We appreciate you.
You showing up so authentically and being so open and vulnerable
and really sharing your medicine.
I know I've certainly been the recipient of it.
And, you know, so many of the listeners and, you know, I know
we kind of kicked off the show with favorite episodes and, you

(01:13:05):
know, we kind of talked about what we get to to see week in
and week out here in the in the specialness of it.
And yeah, so I would just I would reflect on that.
But then kind of what you were saying is, you know, we have our
professional lives outside of here in our our personal lives.
And, you know, for me personally, you know, losing dad
this year, it's been one of the the hardest years, you know, my

(01:13:28):
life and just how this team showed up during that time and
just the time needed to to deal with that.
But still, you know, be in this middle age, you know, here in
our 40s. And we have so much pulling at
us professionally, you know, ourour marriages, you know, and our
children. And, you know, you like, where
can you go and how can you get, you know, filled up and

(01:13:49):
recharged? And so, yeah, I mean, here at
the end of the season and also, you know, talking about the
note, you know, going out to thesoldiers and the challenges that
folks have at at this time of year.
I guess what I would say is, youknow, for anybody that's lost
somebody period, specifically this year is going to be the
first Christmas, you know, without them first holidays.

(01:14:11):
And that's what folks have said to me is, you know, that's
always the hardest and the most challenging and a little bit
more time. You know, there's never really
total healing that happens from it.
You always hurt, you always missthat, you know, person, you
always wish that they could be back, but you don't want them
back, you know, in the state that they were in or, or
suffering this, this weird thingof, of life.

(01:14:32):
And so I guess, you know, I'm sograteful, you know, for this
life and everything in it, you know, this show and all the
opportunities and just being able to come together, you know,
in, in community and engage. And I think that's what makes
the challenging times, you know,bearable.
That and you know, for me personally, my, my faith in

(01:14:55):
faith in Christ and being able to, to lean on that so heavily,
you know, this past year. And so just an encouragement and
just compassion for those that have gone through something
similar, going through somethingsimilar, you know, you're not
alone. We're all in this together.
And it's been an absolutely great season 6.

(01:15:16):
That is a wrap for us for season6.
We're so thankful for you guys hanging out with us for another
year. Great season.
If you do miss us during the holidays, you can always
subscribe to our podcast, our newsletter, or send us mail and
guest recommendations at legion.org Slash Tal.

(01:15:37):
We'll see you in 2026. Happy holidays, Merry Christmas,
we'll see you soon.