The power of equine therapy for veterans - Tango Alpha Lima

Alicia Freeman talks about how equine therapy helps veterans with mental health issues, her Stay in the Fight Veterans Foundation philanthropy organization and more as the special guest on this week’s Tango Alpha Lima podcast.

Other topics in this episode include International Podcast Day, Wiley X’s protective eyewear for military members, the decline of civic engagement, music as a lifeline for deployed troops and more.

Episode links

• The history of podcasts
• USA250 Challenge
• WileyX
• V.A.L.O.R. equine therapy
• Veterans volunteer longer, vote more often than civilian peers: report
• We The Veterans
• WTV: The 2025 Veterans Civic Health Index
• Deployment playlists, then and now: from Walkmans to wireless despair

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is the Tal podcast. They call me crazy because I'm
facing on the giants. They try to scare me into
thinking I can fight it. They tell me I should never even
think a giant. But that's just me.
I'm going to live out in defiance.

(00:29):
Welcome, Alphas, Thanks for joining us.
We've got a great show for you. Today.
We'll be joined by Alicia Freeman, who alongside her
husband Miles Co, founded a philanthropy that supports
animal shelters, food banks and veteran causes, including a
partnership with the National Medal Medal of Honor Museum.
She is the president of Stay in the Fight Veterans Foundation

(00:49):
and works tirelessly with the veterans assessing lifelong
opportunities for rehabilitationor better known as valor.
It's a equine therapy program. I'm excited to chat with her
because horses and veterans and but mostly horses.
So hey Joe, Happy International Podcast Day.
Thank you so much for for what did you get me?

(01:12):
I got you the smile. Oh, it was a very it's a good
soft smile that would be great in like a wedding photo that.
Was that was I have spinach in my teeth so that would.
Have been nice. Happy International Podcast Day
Today, September 30th 2025, is aday to celebrate the power of
podcasts. Since 2014, the International

(01:35):
Podcast Day team has focused on showcasing independent
podcasting talent from around the world and raising the
awareness of a growing industry.They are dedicated to crafting a
lively celebration that the podcasting industry can rally
around in celebration of International Podcast Day.
I'd like to know what has been your favorite episode of the Tal

(01:56):
Podcast and why? Let's see here.
What do you think? Well, we've had so many great
chats, Goodness, you know, obviously because it's fresh in
my mind was Ken Burns, of course.

(02:17):
Yeah. But I mean, Montel Williams was
great. We I'm going back so, but this
from this year alone, sheesh. I mean, dare I say every single
person we talk to but. I, I, I agree, I like, I like
people that make me think. I like when somebody explains
something in a way that that gives me more questions.

(02:40):
I would I if I had to pick one in particular, partially because
it is fresh in my mind as well. Rod Rodriguez at the convention.
I mean, he is such a powerhouse for veterans and, and I'm so
sorry, what was the I forget thethe lady's name that is running
the Memorial foundation. Holly will probably find it in a

(03:05):
minute. I'm so bad with names, but I've
known him for for a few years. Jennifer Ballew and she's a host
of of the new podcast. So I'm going to tattoo that on
my forearm so I don't ever forget it again.
Anyway, I really enjoyed that one.
Plus I I think that we're due a memorial.

(03:26):
I would love for us to have a place where where where we can
go as as OFOF veterans. I think it's time so but Alpha's
good on Apple podcast or Spotifyor YouTube or Myspace or
wherever you're listening and drop us a comment.
Let us know what your favorite Tal episode is and why.

(03:49):
And if we get some good comments, we'll come back later
this season and share them. And if one podcast celebration
day is not enough for you, National Military Podcast Day is
October 5th. You heard it here first were
double dipping baby. Hey, you know, it might be a
thought too that if you like ourshow, maybe you could write a
review us. This would be special.

(04:09):
You know what, I don't want to be a retired staff Sergeant
anymore. I want to be a five star
general. So make make us a five star
rating on on. Oh, I like that.
I like that. OK, Alphas, please stick around.
We'll be right back with our very, very special guest right
after the break. The reason that I'm serving
because not only we serve our nation, we serve individual

(04:33):
units. We serve individual veterans and
their family. And so service doesn't end when
you're not on active duty if andmatter of fact it actually
increase because there's a need throughout the United States for
veterans and their family. And so I want to do my part as
long as I have a physical and mental capability.

(04:56):
And as you notice on my jacket, it says servant leader.
And so to answer your question, that's what leaders do we serve.
And so here we are. All right.

(05:19):
Today we are joined by the President of Stay in the Fight
Veterans Foundation, Alicia Freeman.
Alicia, thank you so much for hanging out with us today.
Absolutely. I'm so excited.
Thank you for for having me. I'm really, really honored to be
in your presence. So thanks for the invite.
Our digital presence. So Full disclosure, Alicia, I

(05:42):
was totally fangirling on you sohard.
Oh really? Yeah.
So at the risk of sounding supercreepy, we have a lot of things
in common. First of all, you raise your
kids while owning and operating salons.
My mom was a cosmetologist whileraising us and managing our
horse farm. You served, let's see, you

(06:05):
served as the president for promoting art in the schools,
right? And so after my military
service, I had a little grassroots photography school
downtown and we supplemented arts programs in the Charleston
area after the budget cuts forced them to close a lot of
the art programs. And lastly, well, maybe not
lastly, but there was a ton. Anyway, my husband and I both

(06:27):
exclusively wore Wiley X Ballistic protection during our
service. So imagine my surprise to see
that that's one of your one of your companies endeavors.
One, one thing, one of the things, one of the so many
things that you do, which is amazing.
Yeah. So Wiley X is our family owned
business. My father-in-law started it in
1987. He actually bought into another

(06:49):
optics business. He came out of New York.
He was in the warehouse industrythat got a little crazy, I call
it. He was mob adjacent.
So he kind of needed to leave that industry.
He had his young family, so theymoved out to California where my
mother in law's family was. And he was looking for another

(07:09):
business to invest in. And he saw this little AD in the
newspaper. Remember that back in the day.
And it was, you know, to buy into this optics company.
So he went and he looked and it all kind of made sense.
And so they went down that road together and then eventually he
bought out his partner. Later on, he brought the boys

(07:31):
into the business. They rebranded, made it called,
made it Wiley X, what it is today.
And yeah, it's been in the family since 1987.
And so now my father-in-law has passed and my husband and his
brother run the company. That's awesome.
Yeah, another cool connection I found Alicia, was that I have

(07:51):
had horses my whole life. Even when I was in the service,
I'd find a place to to go get onthe back of a horse.
So in I have to say they were really integral in my mental
rehabilitation after coming homefrom TD wise or deployments, but
most especially after being hurt.
And you've been involved with equine therapy programs since

(08:13):
what, 2012? About 2012?
Yeah. Have you have you always been
involved with horses? What compelled you to to get
involved? I I haven't always been involved
with horses. I grew up in Wisconsin, kind of
out in the country, and some of our neighbors had horses, some
of my friends. And so we would go.
And really, I mean, I was kind of raised feral.

(08:34):
I call it, you know, latchkey kid from the 1980s.
And so we would just go out and like hop on some of these horses
and just ride around. And like, I've never had a
proper riding lesson or I hadn'tuntil I was an adult.
And I've just always had a passion for horses.
So then Fast forward to 2012, I was going through a divorce.

(08:56):
Things were really ugly and dealing with doctors and
attorneys and lawyers and judgesand just all this stuff.
And I was in a pretty dark place.
And I was like, you know what, Ineed to do something.
So I ended up at, we were livingin California at the time and I
ended up at this little equine facility that worked with kids

(09:20):
with mental and physical challenges.
And I got there and I remember being like this family rolled
up, they open their van and thiskid comes out in a wheelchair.
And I'm like, who thought this was a good idea?
This is, this is a, what are we doing?
Putting this kid who can't help himself at all, can't speak,

(09:45):
can't like literally is just there.
What are we doing putting them on this horse?
But I was like, I'm going to keep my mouth shut.
We're just going to see what happens and how this plays out.
They've been doing this a while.Clearly I'm the new one.
I don't know what's up. So they put this young man up on
this horse. And sorry if I get a little

(10:06):
emotional because it hits me every time I think about it.
So this young man who has every need taking care of for him by
other people, he can't help himself in any way.
He has no liberties, he has no freedoms.
He's he's really confined withinhis body and he gets up on that
horse and he's got no communication right?

(10:27):
Can't talk to you, can't say anything.
He gets up on that horse and I put his hands on the horn and he
gives 2 taps. Those two taps meant walk on and
that horse started walking. Oh wow.
And for me, I was, I was transformed that day.
That's communication. He shared what he wanted to do.

(10:49):
And for the next probably half an hour, he walked around the
arena and he would walk on. And then when it was time to woe
or stop, he would give one. And that was his communication,
right? He was talking with that horse.
They, they were in a relationship, they were working
together, they were partnering. And for me, I was like, you know

(11:10):
what, anything I have going on in my life, I can't complain.
I cannot for one second. Yes, it's ugly, it's gross, it's
bad. But seeing him up on that horse
that day turn into a cowboy and being able to command this, you

(11:30):
know, 12 to 1400 LB beast with just a couple of taps.
I was, I was transformed and I, I fell in love with it.
So I started volunteering there pretty regularly and did that
for a number of years while we were in California.
And then we moved to Texas 4 1/2years ago.

(11:52):
And when we first got here, my husband had some health issues.
And so my focus was really keeping him alive, making sure
that everything was OK. He had a few surgeries, he had
some heart stuff. He had a pacemaker put in like
he had cancer before, like therewas just stuff.
So one day I woke up and it was like, he was fine.
He's a lot like there's nothing I needed to do and I had nothing

(12:16):
going on in my life. I was like, my focus was purely
him and our kids, obviously. So I Googled that day, equine
therapy, and there was a facility that's a couple miles
away as it happens from our home.
And I showed up that day and I was like, I'm here.
I can help take advantage. Like I don't have a job so I can

(12:40):
work as much or volunteer as much as you need.
And they looked at me like I wascrazy.
And I was like, and I probably was a little crazy.
And so I was just like, just take advantage of it.
Like if you need help, let me know.
I will help you. That is what I'm here for.
And the first couple of days, the the very first person I met,

(13:00):
her name is Jessica. She's fantastic.
She's actually on our board now.And she was like, I really
thought like, who is this chick?Like what is?
She. Doing Who does this?
And so it just turned into this really great thing.
And so we, you know, I started volunteering there a lot and
then my husband and I with WileyX, we started supporting their

(13:22):
veteran program that they have. So we paid for all of the equine
training and, and skills stuff for all of the veterans that
were going through their programat that time just as a way to
give back. And yeah, it's now LED into this
thing. So it's just been, it's been a
really great, a really great move down here.

(13:45):
And just anything with the horses, I'm I'm all in on.
I love that. As, as somebody who's never, you
know, really interacted with horses outside of just, you
know, a few times, I have consistently heard from people
who who also have never ridden or or owned horses that that

(14:07):
equine therapy was incredible that it it, it completely woke
them up to something. And I think that the reason why
that one story about that young man moves you so much is because
I think that when you're somebody that feels like you
don't have freedom and you get to experience that it, it's

(14:29):
evident. You get to see somebody's spirit
just sort of let go of all the confinement and the chains that
that their body may place on it.And, and there's so much tied in
between the mind, the body and the spirit that when one thing
is constrained, you have to findways to let the others be free.
And you gave somebody an opportunity to do that.

(14:49):
And so, you know, it's, it's we go from, from talking about that
stuff that I, I did want to circle back to Wiley X for a
second. It seems silly to talk about,
but but it, it's not because it's, it's funny.
We, we interviewed the founder of ID dot me and, and it's like
these things that you don't realize sometimes when you're

(15:10):
using these products that there's a human being back there
somewhere that made this stuff. And, and we, you know, we used
that same stuff and all the way in 2004, you know, the goggles
and stuff that we used. And so your family has got this
long history of supporting the military.
You guys have, you know, not just with like, you know,

(15:33):
protective eyewear, but you know, the, the things that you
know, that it seems like that's where your heart is, is being a
part of these things. So how does that kind of
business intersect with the philanthropic work that you do
with your foundation? And what does it mean to support
service members on both the front lines and then after their

(15:53):
service as well? I mean, it's so many people just
pick a pocket and they stay in it.
And you, you know, it seems likeyou are, are wanting to be a
part of the whole process and I think that's great.
Yeah. I mean, if you think about it,
thank you for for all of that, by the way.
If you think about it, we wouldn't have the lifestyle that
we have. We wouldn't have the business we

(16:13):
have. We wouldn't have any of this
without our military that, you know, things were humming along.
They were going pretty well since 1987.
You know, the business was tracking and like doing pretty
well. And then stuff kind of fell
apart in the Middle East in the,you know, mid 90s and we were
fast tracked to be a government supplier.

(16:36):
And so that really propelled thebusiness.
And so it took it from, you know, doing normal to just
overnight things changed. And that's great for a variety
of reasons. Obviously, it gives us this
really great lifestyle. We have great employees.

(16:57):
We're taking care of all of themand the whole whole thing.
But we also recognize that we wouldn't be where we are without
the military, the veterans, the people who got us there and the
fact that so many people come upto us at conventions or
different events we're at, or we, they find out, you know,
we'll wear our shirts if we're at a race, you know, a NASCAR

(17:18):
race or something. And we have these people, these
men and women that come up to usand they're like, listen, your
product saved my life. How can you not want to do
whatever you can for those people, you know, these people
who sign the dotted line and puttheir lives on the line for the
rest of us back here at home whocontinue to work and do things,

(17:40):
the ride horses and whatever we do, right?
There's people out there right now today that are defending us.
And so we need to when they comeback.
And that's a big part of seeing the Fight Veterans Foundation
and everything that we're doing.When they come back, we need to
give them a soft landing space, right?

(18:00):
We need to make that transition a little bit better because
they've gone and done things on our behalf that we've asked them
to do as a country and it's damaged them a little bit.
So I can only do what I can within my power.
And so if I've got these resources to financially give

(18:21):
back, if I have time to, you know, donate my time to
volunteer, that's a way I can give back.
If I have the ability to producea product, that's a way I can
give back. Whatever it is that we're able
to do, we should do it well. And ultimately, at the end of
the day, for me and for us kind of as a family is, you know, so

(18:42):
many of these men and women havegone and, and they went with
good intentions and they went aswhole individuals and they've
come back broken. So how can we help piece them
together? Like how can we kind of put back
some of those puzzle pieces? And I'm going to tie it in a
little bit also with the equine stuff that we're doing with stay

(19:05):
in the fight. And you brought it up earlier
and you know, just you've not really been around horses.
And a lot of the people that we deal with through the Valor
project, which is what we support here in Collin County.
So Valor is run through our local judge's office.
So our veterans court and our Sheriff's Department, they've
worked together and they've created this really great model.

(19:28):
So they bring people from all over the state of Texas who have
low level crimes, have ended up in the justice system and might
need to go away for a little bitof time.
But instead of treating them like a normal average Joe
inmate, they're veterans. And they, they, they address
that from the beginning, right? So they're brought up here to

(19:48):
Collin County and they're able to do basically like a
rehabilitation for their incarceration time.
So it's a 180 day mandatory stay.
And in that 180 days you have your morning session, which is
like going out into the community, performing community
service works. And then in the afternoon you do

(20:09):
classes and lessons and you're doing therapies of different
sorts and all these things, right?
So they've run this program for about 15 years now here in
Collin County and it's very successful.
It's fantastic. So one of the things that they
wanted to add to it was this equine portion.
And that's how I got involved with it.
I was talking to the sheriff andwith the judge and, and we've

(20:30):
kind of came up together and, and this thing kind of happened.
It's a long, much longer story than that, but that's the nuts
and bolts of it. So the very first day that we
show up on site, we're having this, you know, have a bunch of
the men and women from the facility coming out to a local
ranch. They're working with a horseman,

(20:50):
whatever. And we have this one man by the
name of Aaron. And Aaron is probably 6566,
probably 280. Like he's a big dude, right?
He's a big dude. He's got a TBI and he was
completely shut down. Like there was no communication.

(21:11):
Eyes were down. Anytime we tried to communicate
with him, anything we did, it was such a challenge and really
not talking really like here's how you tie a knot, here's how
you do this thing, like here's how you put the saddle on it.
And it was just all thumbs for him, right?
So about day three, our horse person looks over and he's like,

(21:35):
Aaron, I've got, I've got the perfect job for you today.
And so Aaron's like, you know, big puppy dog guy's like, OK,
what's this going to be? And it's kind of like dealing
with like a giant 12 year old with Aaron.
That's kind of where he's at. So he puts this chair in the
arena and he's like, sit in thatchair.

(21:56):
So Aaron sits down and then he'slike, hold this rope.
So Aaron holds this rope. Now at the end of the rope is a
horse. And he said, now if you're able
to calm yourself down and you just sit and like don't think
about anything, that horse eventually will approach you

(22:16):
because right now it's reading your heartbeat and it's saying
this is fearful, this is dangerous, and so I need to stay
away. But if you're able to calm your
heart rate, that horse will comeup to you and approach you.
So 3 hours later, no bathroom breaks, no cigarette breaks, no,
you know, snacks, nothing. This horse comes up and starts

(22:37):
to nuzzle Aaron's neck. I lose it, right?
I completely lose it. So that's kind of like the first
thing that happens. So later on in the day, in the
afternoon, again, Aaron's a big guy, you know, really big man.
But we had a horse. His name is Valor, and he's an
1800 LB. Percheron.

(22:58):
So he's about the only thing that we can put Aaron up on.
So it's end of the day, everybody has been riding
different horses and doing things and Aaron wasn't
participating. So it's like, OK, buddy, this is
your time. Like, we're going to do this.
So he comes up to the mounting block.
He gets on. I say all you need to know is

(23:19):
whoa. That's the only thing you really
need to know. If things get crazy and you're
upset and you want off, pull back to your belly button.
Whoa. And he was like, OK, So he takes
off and we have someone leading him around the arena.
And I'm not kidding you, 2 to 3 minutes later, by the time he
gets back to me, he says, Miss Alicia, does someone else want

(23:43):
to turn now? I've been with this man for the
last four days and I've not heard him speak.
Something happened in that time,in that 2 to 3 minutes.
By the time he got back to me, something switched.
And I'm not going to give all the credit to the horse because
he's just the tool in this. I give the credit to Aaron.

(24:03):
He opened himself up. He allowed himself to overcome
some of his fears and be brave. And something just changed.
So he gets off the horse and we can't shut this kid up.
Like he is talking to everybody and he's like, hey, did you see
me? Did you?
I was on valor. Did you see me doing these?
I walked around the barrels and everybody in that unit because

(24:25):
it is run like a barracks. It's not run like a jail.
It's run like a barracks. They were all so supportive.
And yeah, man, we saw you. That was amazing.
Like, good job, right? Like, and you think about it,
all of these men and women are for lack of a better, like
they're in the worst time of their life.

(24:46):
They're recovering from drugs and alcohol, they're in jail.
They're like all of these things.
But we're providing these littleglimmers of hope and these
situations to help them kind of overcome in a different way,
whatever they've experienced. And just seeing that
transformation happen so quicklywith Aaron again, it was very

(25:08):
much like my very first experience where I was like,
dude, I'm in, I am all in. Whatever just happened out
there, it was amazing. So we need like, I think
everyone should be in horse therapy, like all of you should
participate. But it's just, it's just such a
different relationship. And it's a relationship where

(25:30):
you don't need to have any verbal outside your mouth words.
It's touch and intention and, you know, thought and control
and all of these things that youdon't really need to have
language for. It's just, it's just that
feeling. So that was, that was a really
special thing. But sorry to ramble on with all

(25:51):
that. No, I, I love it.
Yeah, it was just. That's good stuff.
It really highlights kind of some of the work that happens in
equine therapy. And I'm not an equine therapist,
so don't like hear that, but I've been around it enough and
I've seen enough transformationsthat there's something special
that happens out there. For sure.

(26:12):
I think there's also power in that horse, horses and herds and
numbers, they tend to self regulate amongst the, the
heartbeats. And so for me, like if I'm
having a bad day or something, Ijust go out to my pastor and I
stand amongst my horses and I, Iinstantly calm down.
They'll just surround me and they'll bring me in and

(26:33):
obviously they'll start groomingme and I'll end up a dirty man.
But it's the best part of my day.
And I will say this, you were talking about this young
gentleman who is wheelchair bound.
And you know, when you're on theback of a horse, suddenly
you're, you know, when you're ina wheelchair, you're looking up
at everybody and, and Joe, you, you have used a wheelchair

(26:55):
sometimes. So you can probably appreciate
this where you're kind of a bit lower and not to say you're
diminutive, but it changes your perspective a lot.
And there's something about being on the back of a horse, it
empowers you. It now you're suddenly taller
than everybody. If you're immobile, whether you
have the loss of legs or loss oflimbs, suddenly you have 4 legs.

(27:16):
And there's power in that, too. Well, and I another thing that
people don't even realize or, orknow about also is the movement
of your body helps with your digestion, right?
So if you are constantly in a state, in a prone state where
you're not really moving, everything kind of starts to

(27:38):
shut down, right? Like it, it makes it harder for
things to move through our body.So when you put someone up on a
horse, now maybe they've never walked in their life, but you
put them on a horse and the horse actually replicates
walking. So your body is twisting and
moving and all of those things inside of you start working
together and it helps. And it's like, it's sounds crazy

(28:02):
and it's, you know, a little rando, but just being able to
have that bodily function returning to you, right?
Like that is so huge for so manypeople who don't have that.
And 100% agree about, you know, if you're constantly in a
wheelchair or you're constantly lower or whatever.

(28:23):
So in my second pregnancy, I wasin a wheelchair and bed bound
for the last six months of my pregnancy and just being out in
the public and having people and, and looking at you and then
like, Oh, that poor pregnant lady who's like, oh, her, her
husband is so sweet and like pushing her up.
And I was just like, dude, what?No, like, don't take away this.

(28:44):
This is like for me, it was temporary, but what are you
doing? Like it doesn't change who I am
just because I'm in this different situation.
Like don't treat me a different way because of something you
know nothing about. I've I've had not, not to cut in
here, but I've had people talk louder to me when I was in a

(29:04):
wheelchair. Yeah, what lower?
And I'm like, really? That's where that's where you
took this because, OK, all right.
And you know, again, it's it's all about the education.
Got to educate people and meet them where they are.
And that's fine. But yeah, it's, it's when you

(29:27):
have those experiences and you, you get a different perspective,
it makes you look at the world alittle bit differently and treat
people a little bit differently.And just because, and I tell
this to all of my kids, everybody has something.
Some of it's a little bit more visible, right?
Some of it's a little bit more on the surface and you can see
what's going on. But we all have something.

(29:48):
And you just got to figure out what that something is for
everyone. And if you can relate to it,
great. If you can't learn more about
it, like learn a way to relate to it, learn a way to
communicate with people, you know, that's just nobody.
Nobody wants to be isolated because of whatever they're
going through. That is the worst thing for

(30:09):
anybody, in my opinion, is that isolation.
So if we can open that up and start some dialogues, great.
You know, you dedicate a lot of your time to volunteering and
giving of yourself, and that canbe draining, especially when
you're dealing with folks who have physical or emotional

(30:29):
things they're working through. Right?
Yeah. So what do you do for yourself
to fill your cup? So I have always, I don't know,
I think I'm built a little bit differently.
So number one, I'm not like a super emotional person and that

(30:50):
definitely helps me with different things that I do.
And I, I never try and place my own perspective on a situation.
I really trying to understand where other people are coming
from. And so, you know, I might
disagree about something or I might, you know, have a
difference of opinion or whatever, but I really, I really

(31:11):
try and meet people where they are and see where they're coming
from. So for me, because of the life
that I've had and because of theway that lets you know, I was
raised, I started candy, doing candy striper stuff when I was
in like 6th grade, started giving back.
And I went to the local VA and Iwould go around with all of

(31:32):
these men, you know, that are inthe hospital missing limbs, you
know, bandaged up, tore up. And I would deliver them candies
and flowers and, you know, magazines and different things.
And so I've been put kind of in these situations that are really
tough and difficult from a pretty early age and just kind
of had to adapt. And for whatever reason, for me,

(31:54):
it made sense and it worked and I, I thrived and I lived.
I enjoy it. So that's kind of where it, it,
it started. And then it's just always been
something for me. You get so much more when you
give back. I know that I get so much more
out of every interaction I have than the people who are

(32:16):
experiencing it. Just riding around on the horse,
whatever. For me to be able to provide
that to someone gives me such joy and it's so fulfilling.
And so that spirit of volunteerism for me is just,
it's a huge part of my life. And I've been very blessed to be
in a position where I'm able to do that, that I am able to have

(32:37):
this time to do that. And I get it, not everybody
does. But if you're able to, even in a
small way, you know, give back in in some small way, I truly
feel like people get so much more out of it.
And so a lot of, you know, a lotof the things that I do and I do
a variety of different volunteerthings as well.
I'm recently, I'm going through some training to be a baby

(33:00):
holder at Cook Children's Hospital here in, in North
Dallas area, you know, dealing with the NICU babies that are
really precious and tender and you know, their moms and dads
can't be with them all the time.And so to be able to come in and
provide them some comfort and some care and some tenderness

(33:21):
when they need it the most, you know, like what a great gift is
that. And the fact that it is tough
and it is hard work and it's, it's not sexy and it's not, you
know, glamorous in any way, shape or form.
But it is, it's that human element that I think truly we're

(33:42):
lacking a little bit of in this day and age.
And so if we can give a little bit of that back to the
universe, I'm, I'm here for it. You know, you.
You. I'm sorry, did did you have
something, Stacey? I don't want to no.
Go. Ahead, you know, you say it's
not glamorous and of course it'snot.
And and you know, it's not sexy,it's not beautiful.

(34:03):
But I think for people that do that sort of thing or have been
through things, especially as you get older, there's an
attractiveness to someone who's been through something and
handled it with grace. You know, when you see someone,
sometimes you can tell where somebody is by, by how they

(34:23):
carry their scars. And, and sometimes you see
people that have obviously been through things and the second
you meet them, you're like, I could sit down and eat lunch
with this person and talk to them for three hours.
And and so, you know, sexy is probably the wrong word, but
there is an attractiveness to someone who's who's handled
adversity with grace and and that stuff.

(34:47):
I think the biggest way you can heal is through service, whether
it's it's nonprofit or whether it's military or what.
I think when you, you know, a lot of us in the military, we
get out, we forget that. What felt so good about it is
that we served. We served something that was
bigger than us. Yeah.
So for you, how did growing up, I mean, you've got a family with

(35:11):
a, with a military service across multiple generations.
How did growing up with the stories of your like your great
grandfather in World War One? And by the way, I just want to
say horseback medic. I was just a regular corpsman
like I was, I was running aroundlike an idiot on my legs.
I didn't have a horse or anything, but horseback medic,
that sounds like the coolest jobever.
I'm like running around like a poor person on my own legs and

(35:34):
and you had a grandfather with Purple Heart World War 2.
How did this stuff influence your, your decision to dedicate
so much of your, your life, you know, and stay in the fight
Veterans Foundation and and justdo everything that you do.
So it's really funny because yes, my great grandfather was a
horseback medic and I don't. Know, I know.
How cool, cool. And if you think about it, I

(35:56):
mean, not to like go to over thetop with all the horse stuff
because we've talked about it a lot, but all of our families in
their history, like every generation before us, pretty
much has had horses involved in their life somehow, right?
Like we really, there weren't cars, there weren't engines,
there weren't these things. So we used horses and we relied

(36:17):
on them and they were part of our family and they were taken
care of because they provided something to us and we provided
something, something to them. And really, I mean, if you, if
you look back, like all of us inour history, our families
somehow have been involved with horses.
So yes, my great grandfather wasa horseback medic.
I don't know a ton about him. We've got a couple of photos.

(36:39):
I know I have one photo of him on a horseback, which is super
cool and I, I love it. It's framed up on my wall.
My grandfather and my grandmother lived a block away
from us. So my grandfather, Carl Wilke,
he served in World War Two. He was injured in Papua New
Guinea and then he spent some time in Germany back in the

(37:05):
hospital getting fixed up. He was shot through the foot.
And so they actually it was veryrevolutionary at the time.
Instead of removing it, they shortened his foot by about four
inches and reattached his toes. Crazy story.
So he had one normal foot in onekind of shorter foot.
So I grew up a block away from them.

(37:27):
And like I said earlier, I was raised kind of feral, you know,
laughed key kid. My parents worked and school and
the whole thing. And so I spent a lot of time at
my grandparents house and I liketelling stories to kind of
illustrate what is going on. And it really hit me especially
after like dealing with Aaron and the horseback thing.

(37:48):
And it really made me think about my own grandfather because
my grandfather was a man of veryfew words.
He did not talk a lot. And there's a lot of
similarities, I think, between Aaron and my grandfather both
through their, you know, service.
That stuff happened to him. And so now as an adult, looking

(38:09):
back on these situations that, you know, I would go to my
grandparents pretty much every morning before school.
My parents would, you know, haveto go to work.
They would drop me off and I would tiptoe.
I had my own key. So I would let myself in and I
would tip toe up the stairs and,you know, avoid the squeaky ones
because I wanted to scare my grandparents in bed.
And some of the things I remember from that time is I

(38:32):
would come in and obviously they'd both be like, Oh my gosh,
you're here. Like you scared us, right?
Like what? Great grandparents, like they
knew I was there, but my grandfather had had to have
sound on all the time. So the radio was on all the
time, 24 hours a day and in their bedroom.

(38:53):
AM radio, Farm Report, you know,Paul Harvey, the rest of the
story, all of those, you know, all of his time that he spent
was was with the sound on. They also slept in a double bed.
My grandfather was a very large man.
My grandmother was not petite and they always were touching.

(39:17):
And it was that grounding and that sound of the radio on just
kept some of those perhaps voices out of his head, right?
Like all of these different things that I now as an adult
can look back on and be like, you know what?
He probably did go through some really crazy stuff and he didn't
know how to process it. But thank God, he had my

(39:38):
grandmother who what she used every word in the dictionary on
a daily basis. The woman, she was a talker.
She was very connecting. And so he didn't have to do
that. She would fill that gap for him.
And they were just such a reallygreat partnership and love
story. You know, they married after

(39:59):
knowing each other for just a couple of months like crazy.
I. You know, and they really, they
looked out for each other. But my grandfather always gave
back as well. He was a big, you know, he was
definitely a member, American Legion, VFW, He was a Zor
Shriner. He was like all of these things.
He gave back his time and all ofthe men that served under him,

(40:23):
they could show up at any time and he would drop what he was
doing. If somebody needed money, if
they needed food, if they neededclothes, whatever
transportation, he would drop itand he would help.
And that was just, you know, that was really modeled to me by
my grand and I spent a lot of time with my grandparents.
So that was really modeled to me.
And I didn't understand it as a child necessarily.

(40:45):
It just kind of happened. And, you know, I witnessed it
and it obviously has affected me.
But just to be able to give backand to give back to people who
who need your help, you know, and who want help.
Not everybody wants help. So, OK, got if you don't, if
you're not ready for that, that's fine.

(41:07):
But just kind of witnessing someof that stuff.
And so when this opportunity arose to take over the
foundation and you know, my husband has always been a
worker. He's always been a worker.
He's office 9 to 5, working trade shows, doing these things,
work, work, work, work, work. We're on vacation.
He's still working as the owner of the business.
You never really get a break from it.

(41:28):
So with all of his health stuff,like I mentioned earlier, he's
really started to step back at work and started that transition
into kind of semi retirement. So right when that was happening
was when Stan the Fight VeteransFoundation was, you know, we
were approached or I was approached to kind of take it
over. And I went to him and I was

(41:48):
like, listen, we have this opportunity and we could do this
thing. And at first he was like, what
are you talking about? Like incarcerated veterans,
You're insane. No, we're not getting involved.
And I was like, just come out, take a look at the program, see
what's going on, and then let meknow.
And he came out and he was like,I get it, I get it now.

(42:12):
You know, these these men and women, it's another story that
we we tell sometimes. So they've done something, they
had this job and they did it well.
You know, their time in the military and they they served
and they did it well. And they got a little beat up.
And so they need a place to recoup and get back together.

(42:33):
And so when they're when they left the military life, maybe
they didn't have that family that was supportive.
Maybe they didn't have that spouse who could fill those gaps
for them like my grandmother didfor my grandfather, right?
Like maybe they don't have that.And so unfortunately, they chose
to go down this other path and then eventually they end up here
in North Texas, in this place, you know, with Valor, with stay

(42:57):
in the fight with North Texas veterans court, the whole thing.
And they're here and now they have this opportunity.
So if we're able to fill them upwith other things to kind of
heal them and patch them back together before we send them out
on their way again to complete adifferent journey.
He really like, it was amazing to me.

(43:21):
Like my, my husband is an amazing man #1 but he, he really
stepped up and in a way that wasso unique and so special.
And I think for him also having the Wiley X name behind it, you
know, we'll go into different places and people will say that,
oh, the Wiley X. And immediately everybody's, you
know, every service member's head turns.

(43:42):
They're like what? And they beeline and they tell
these stories and they share these things.
And it's like, thank you for that.
And here's what we're doing now,right?
Here's how we're supporting our troops now.
Yes, I'm still part of that. I do that thing.
My lacs is still very active, obviously.
But now we're focusing on on these group of service members

(44:03):
and group of veterans. And here's how we need, you
know, to help them and support them in this transition.
And it's just been a really a really beautiful thing for us as
a family and something that we're so proud of.
And, you know, telling our kids this because, you know, your
kids don't think you're so cool all the time, but, you know,

(44:23):
having our kids be excited for this and, and proud of us in a
different way. Like obviously they were proud
of us before. You know, we have this great
life and things are good, but being able to give back and do
things for other people so selflessly.
And I hate like, I don't want tobe the poster child for being
selfless, but you know, if you're able to model that for

(44:46):
your kids, hopefully, and it's really special having adult
children as well, having your adult children kind of proud of
you is is a pretty special thing.
So it just makes you want to do that much more.
I. Mean you're allowed to enjoy
being a good person. I mean, I think you know what
I'm saying, You're allowed. There's a little bit of guilt
there because sometimes, like, you know, how much of this is

(45:07):
pride and how much of this is medoing things for the right
reason. But but it's OK if I guess, if
you're gonna be a little, yeah, I do some pretty if you're gonna
be pretty, you know, if you're gonna be confident about
something, doing things for other people is something.
And I think most people would forgive you being a little proud
of yourself for doing. Yeah, it's.

(45:27):
Not that that's what you're doing.
There is no impression, Alicia, of you being a braggadocious
individual. I love it.
I, I think it all fall from the heart now and everything that
you're doing is so absolutely beautiful.
And yes, I think setting the example for others.
I personally I I'm like you in my love language, just doing
things for others. And service.
Yeah, my loved one. I can definitely see.

(45:50):
That's probably yours as well. Definitely the access service is
definitely my love language, whether it's, you know, cooking
for someone or gathering clothesthat are being donated for a
women's shelter or, you know, whatever that whatever that
looks like. Holding little babies in the
hospital, working with the veterans, you know, in this new

(46:13):
capacity that we've taken on, you know, anything to, to give
back because we are so fortunateto live in this amazing country
and have the freedoms and everything that we have.
And that is so special. And I've travelled a lot and
I've been to other countries andI've been to other places where
they don't have that. So you come home and you're
like, you know what, it is kind of like a sigh of relief that we

(46:37):
get to live in this country where, you know, we don't have
to agree on everything, but we still all have access to the
same liberties and freedoms because of our combined, our
combined desire for that, for our country.
You know, this is this is how we've wanted things to be set up
and we're doing it and we're living it out.
And, you know, it's, it's a pendulum.

(46:59):
And sometimes it goes a little one way and a little the other
way. That's how democracy works.
And so the fact that we have access to that, that we get to
watch that play out is pretty special.
And that, you know, that's just my my own take on it with my own
life experiences. And I know that I have a lot to

(47:20):
be thankful for. So if I can give back to other
people who maybe didn't have thesame advantages, fantastic.
You know, and taking over this foundation because of the
lifestyle that we've had, it's put us in places to have access
to other people who have access to other resources that we need,

(47:41):
whether that's financial or donating a horse or donating
time or whatever that looks like.
You know, because of our business that has built these
other relationships that now canhelp support this in a different
way. Our banking partners, absolutely
amazing Texas Capital, love them.

(48:01):
You know, we just, we do our banking with them and they've
given back to us in such a huge way financially and supported
this because they believe in what we're doing.
That's awesome. We've partnered with the Medal
of Honor Museum. My husband and I are, you know,
sponsors of the new building andfacility and, and the whole
thing down in Arlington. Because of that relationship,

(48:23):
because of our work in our philanthropy, they've donated
their building to us. To be able to have our first
gala in October, right? Like that's a huge blessing to
us. And to be able to invite people
to go to that museum. And I mean, if you've not been
there, let me know. We'll go, We'll do the whole

(48:43):
tour. It's fantastic.
Alicia, I'm going to get you down to my farm so we you can
ride a big bourbot. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Yeah, very.
Gorgeous. But yeah, so, so just having
having access to these differentthings to help, I guess, support
financially or emotionally or whatever, you know, some of

(49:06):
these other passion projects that we have going on is really
cool. So, and that's part of that
whole community and tying thingstogether and teamwork and, you
know, really supporting each other and through some of the
not as glamorous, sexy, lovely parts of it, but some of it's
really fun and really cool and, and special.

(49:26):
So I'm just really excited to bepart of all of that.
And we would love to have you guys come down to our gala.
Come on down, we'll put you up and show you around.
We're having a poker tournament for our first big fundraiser.
So we're super excited. Cool.
That's. Incredible auction off some
Wiley X gear. We're actually have some really

(49:47):
cool experiences as well. Yeah.
So we've got some partnerships, you know, with NASCAR and
different racing, Jim Dunn Racing.
So we've got some really cool race experiences, some really
cool vacations. We've got some cool products,
obviously. YLEX, Yeah.
So it's it's going to be a really fun night.
Wonderful. Yeah.

(50:10):
Alphas, don't go getting arrested and incarcerated just
so you can take part in the equine therapy.
Actually, just go find an equinetherapy in your own area.
And if you're a veteran who is struggling, reach out for help.
It's never too late and there's a whole network of people that
are there to support you. So if you're suffering from
substance use disorder or if you're having some mental health

(50:34):
challenges, it doesn't make you a bad person.
It just we're here to help, so reach out alphas.
Also be sure to check out Stay in the Fight Veterans Foundation
by visiting their website at Stay in the Fight
veteransfoundation.org. While you're there, don't forget
to follow those social media channels so you can stay up to
date and see what they got goingon.
Most importantly, if you and your fellow Legionnaires are

(50:56):
looking for some volunteer opportunities, I'm sure they
have a lot of inspiring ideas. And if you don't have the time
or are physically unable, maybe consider a donation.
But anyway, we'll have all that information in our show notes.
So if you're driving, put the phone down.
And Alicia, it was such a pleasure to to chat with you, to

(51:18):
learn about you, Alicia. Gosh, I'm glad you did it.
Not me. I was on the verge like twice.
Well, Alicia, it was such a pleasure to chat with you.
We really appreciate the time that you spent with us today and
really thank you for all that you're doing for the veteran
community. Before we sign off, is there
anything that we didn't cover that you'd like to discuss?
I think we got it. Thank you guys so much.

(51:40):
Thank you for hosting this podcast and for having me on and
for being a voice for our veterans and, and that community
outreach that is so necessary for everybody.
And however we can help support you guys, please don't hesitate.
Whether it's through stay in thefight, whether it's through
Wiley X, however you know, we wecan support you guys.

(52:01):
Don't hesitate to ask. Well, thank you so much.
We absolutely appreciate the time that you spent with us
today. It really means a lot.
And so, Alphas, please stick around for some scuttlebutt
after the break. In precision marksmanship, you
compete against one of your mostformidable opponents yourself.
It's different than other sports, but it's also a lot of

(52:22):
discipline. I definitely love the intensity
and the challenge. I think that is also helping
come out of my shell because we go to so many different places
and meet so many new people. You got to.
Make sure that you're always there in.
The game at all times, it's niceto have like that sort of head
to head competition. To just get involved.
We'll teach you how. All right homie Alphas, we hope

(52:46):
you had a fantastic break. It is now time for scuttlebutt.
It's it's your favorite, and it's mine, too.
Veterans remain more likely to participate in elections and
spend more time volunteering with local charities than their
civilian peers. Well, that doesn't shock me.
But the gap in the civic engagement has decreased in

(53:07):
recent years, according to the 2025 Veterans Civic Health
Index. I didn't even know that was a
thing. It's a new study compiled by the
advocacy group We the Veterans and Military Families and the
National Conference and Citizen.No, I'm just kidding.
It's. The National Conference on
Citizenship, I felt like there should be one more.
And in there we're we're seeing both across veterans and

(53:29):
civilians that there is a slightdrop in many civic health
measures, said Chris Marvin, primary author of the report.
He went on to say we should be concerned about that.
Yes, agreed. The report first debuted in 2021
and showed a significant gap in veterans willingness to
volunteer with community groups,engage with local officials and

(53:52):
participate in community activities.
This year's survey found a smaller gap.
The veterans and civilians reported volunteering at similar
rates, 27% versus 28, which is pretty close.
But veterans who gave time to local groups averaged 93 hours
of charitable work compared to 69 hours of non veterans.
Well, I think that's just, that's just our aggressive need

(54:14):
to be better than. Anyone.
We're going to help you better than other people help you
aggressively. We're the best and we're going
to show up one hour before start.
Back. Oh, you were here at 8:00.
I'll be here at 7:15 tomorrow. True that.
Veterans were also more likely to donate to non political
causes. That's 5056% versus 50% for non

(54:38):
veterans and and to spend time talking to neighbors.
Why would you ever want to do that?
I am not that person. I'm on a farm anyway. 33% versus
28% for non veterans and belong to local civic groups. 32 versus
25%. But but that's why you like your
neighbors. Yes, and horses.
And dogs, anyway. Nearly 3/4 of veterans surveyed,

(55:00):
73% voted in the 2024 elections.Did you vote, Joe?
I did vote yes. Compared to about 66% of non
veterans. Maybe that's because we're just
so, I don't know, committed to, to our freedoms and what we
fought for. You can't complain if you don't
vote. That's I've always heard that.

(55:21):
And even though it's not strictly true, anybody can
complain about anything. That's the beauty of America.
You can do nothing and still complain about it.
Most people do. I I personally like to invest in
something so I can complain withgusto.
This is true. Well at least have you know
backing that you tried Roughly 64% of veterans voted in their
last local election cycle compared to 53% that did that

(55:44):
didn't well from the non veterancommunity.
Marvin said he hopes to that these findings under score the
need for civic groups to seek out and recruit veterans.
Not out of pity, but out of need.
So many organizations, their first thought is we need to help
the poor and down out veteran, he said.
I don't know if he sounds like that, but that's just folks

(56:07):
should be thinking I have a problem to solve and who can
help me solve it? Probably veterans.
Well, who else? We might have caused the
problem, but we can also fix theproblem.
Yes, true. The report also notes that
family members connected to service members and veterans
also appear more likely to be connected to the community

(56:27):
causes, although research data in their contributions is less
available than the veterans figures.
Ben Kaiser, executive chairman of the We the Veterans and
Military Family, said officials hope to build on that work in
the coming years to better show the full value they bring to the
local communities. If we are more intentional about
recruiting veterans and militaryfamily members, more will step

(56:50):
up, he said. We'll see more investment and
more time. In terms of absolute numbers of
people volunteering, I agree. I appreciate being civic minded.
I'm very civic minded. I agree more and I'm more civic
minded. Well, I agree more more than
you, because I'll definitely. Dare you?

(57:11):
How dare you? We'll have the link to the
Military Times article, as well as a link to the full report in
the show notes. So whether pressed against the
side of a Humvee or hunched under a poncho liner shaded a
patrol base, I'm bouncing, dude.My mind had a lot of imagery
happening. I'm sorry.

(57:32):
Carry on. You've.
Never been. You've never.
I thought you read those kinds of books.
Yes, I do. Unabashedly, Joe, I do.
It's too hot for romance in Iraq, so hopefully none of them
take place there. But whether pressed against the
side of a Humvee or hunched under a poncho liner shaded a
patrol base, music has always been more than a distraction for

(57:55):
deployed service members. It is a lifeline for troops in
the field deployment playlist are not just about taste.
They're about memory, morale andsurvival.
So Walkman era now I'm in between here in like CDs and and
the reason why is because with the CDs, it was hard to keep
them from getting sand and and getting and the CDs were very

(58:16):
finicky tapes. Some people went back, they
there was even this one thing that I don't remember exactly
what it was, but it was almost like a tape deck, but it had
like a memory card that you would put in it.
But when I say memory card, it looked like a tape still.
I forget what they were called. But, you know, back then it was
like, I could put 300 songs on this.
And I was like, you know, this is. 2004 I'm like.

(58:38):
Science so that's all the isn't that all the music in the world
by. The way I think a portable CD
player is called a discman. Yes.
That's true, and I definitely had my share of disk men's which
I would skip CDs when I was running like.
So tactile saddlebags of sound. Before the cloud, there was the

(59:01):
cassette. In the 80s and 90s.
This was last century. Many troops deployed with
Walkman's reportable CD players.Tapes were mailed from home,
shared among squad mates, or bought at PXS in bulk.
You could count on a handful of classics making the rounds.
ACDC, Metallica, Girth. Brooks.
Did you say girth? I was going to roll through

(59:24):
without acknowledging. It No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You're not getting away with calling Garth Brooks Girth.
The next question goes, how do you know about Girth Brooks?
You've never listened to Girth? What was what was his?
I actually like the album. I can't even.

(59:47):
A cover. A cover artist musician by the
name of Girth Brooks. I'm going to a girth concert
later. That's karaoke.
Yeah, would that would definitely be a Garth Brooks
cover band in speedos anyway. So Metallica, Garth Brooks and

(01:00:07):
maybe some R&B to round out a fire team's vibe.
Rewinding a tape mid patroller, swapping batteries during a rest
halt gave a sense of normalcy. So we had.
But before we move on, I do wantto ask what was your?
What were you listening to? Did you get a chance to to
listen to much music? I think you made time if you
didn't. I hadn't I had an iPod at the

(01:00:29):
time on my this is my last appointment, my first
appointment. I probably had something less
less advanced, but I had an iPodand A and a little speaker dock.
So every morning, if I was if I was in my hooch on the fob,
which a lot I was out on patrol a lot, but I would just press
play and for some reason my iPodwould always revert back to the

(01:00:49):
first song on my playlist and itwas Kathmandu.
So every morning I would press play like Kathmandu and I'm like
Jesus next, next not. I love that song, but I got
really tired of it after you know that long you what about
you? Weirdly, while I was deployed I

(01:01:11):
listened to my wife's music. I that's all I listened to the
whole time I was gone. The only album that I listened
to that was like my normal musicwas Limp Bizkit, but it was ACD
that I bought while it was therethat had Behind Blue Eyes on it.
I forget the name of the album but I listened to a lot of Limp
Bizkit but and even though it was never really a big country
fan, I did listen to to Girth Brooks and the Dixie Chicks or I

(01:01:38):
guess just the. Chicks.
Their names. Yeah, yeah, I know.
But you know, when I listen to them, it's hard.
It's hard because that's when I listen to them.
That's what they recalled. But I listen to a lot of that
and and that was those 3 pretty much covered the bulk of the
music that I listen to. Meanwhile, my wife's at home
listening to Tool and Stone Sourand Perfect.

(01:02:00):
Circle and. Well, she was listening to my
music, so yes, at that point shedid have taste.
I'm gonna reverse that crap. So what?
Do you think? You were like the Spice Girls.
What the heck? No, I, I mean, for her it was,
you know, she was just listeningto the music I normally listen
to. And I, and we didn't do this on
purpose. It was just a, you know, I guess

(01:02:22):
I was just imagining sitting in the car riding and listening to
the music she likes because I always listen to what she likes
in the car. You're listening to that.
You were rolling, rolling down the streets of Fallujah,
listening to Enya. Like who can?
Do the pure mood soundtrack. Don't you start on me that
that's a classic. That's a classic.

(01:02:43):
I went out with the Army Psyops guys one time.
Is their is their medic because I guess they lost one.
I don't know. You trusted that.
Oh, that was that was scarier than I thought it was going to
be. Like I yeah, sure.
I'll you know, I've been to war.I'll I'll be your your medic.
And I get in this Humvee and they're playing like bombs over
Baghdad by outcast naturally, like over these.

(01:03:04):
And and I realize, oh, we're a bait car when we were like in
the middle of the city already. That's when it finally occurred
to me what I'd volunteered for. So.
So that's what I listen to. But in the burn disc iPod
invasion, as compact disc players gave way to MP3 players
and then iPods, troops began to arrive in theater with entire

(01:03:25):
libraries in their pockets. Burn mix CDs from home are still
standard. This is probably like O 6, I
would think because we didn't have O five, O 6, because we
didn't have this in O four. Really.
Or maybe it was Marines and we were just too poor.
But the original iPod, which wasreleased in A1, allowed users to
store up to 1000 songs in their,in their pocket.

(01:03:45):
But I wasn't going to travel with something that expensive.
Like I, I, I think I bought $215CD Discman and just carried one
in case it broke, you know, justcarried a spare.
It was an Apple product, I thinkit was MP3 player, but it looked

(01:04:06):
it was like the size of your regular standard lighter like
hand lighter it was. Silk the Nano.
Was it? Something yeah, there's iPad
nano, they had a mini which was a square I think and then the
nano which was like the size of yeah, it was tiny.
It was the size of a light I. Remember I?
I had one of those as well. I don't remember.

(01:04:28):
But it's compact disc players gave way to MP3 players and an
iPod. Troops began arriving with all
this music, loads of song, thousands of songs, and then
streaming. So today deployed troops rely
heavily on streaming services like Spotify, Apple Music and
YouTube. And I'm going to give a shout
out the title because they were the first to do lossless music

(01:04:48):
and, and I'm a big fan of that. I listen to audiophile, you
know, music with really nice headphone IMS.
You can get $20 IMS that sound better than anything that that
is wireless. There's there's really cheap
ways to get into it, but I I have an MP3 player now because
of that a little Fio M21 that I love, but you get streaming

(01:05:13):
installations have Internet access through which is wild to
me commercial providers or Wi-Fifrom third party satellite
services. That just seems like an opsec
nightmare to have a bunch of E threes and E twos and and heck
even some officers I've met withfull access to the Internet.
But streaming does have its limits, including buffering
issues, account restrictions, and limited bandwidth depending

(01:05:34):
on location. But convenience, of course, has
increased. But music is like control has
not. You know, cassette may have been
clunky, but it never failed. And that's kind of what I was
talking about. You know I.
Thought I thought there was some, you know, listen, I, I was
my first duty assignment was thestrategic command.
So it was like super top secret in vault, vault, vault.

(01:05:56):
And I remember hearing somethingand maybe this was just, I don't
know, maybe water cooler crap, but I thought like with the
cassettes and things like that, that there was recording,
potential recording, which couldbe an OPSEC thing as well, so.
Just yeah. Anyway, tell me the rest of your
thoughts. I don't have any.

(01:06:17):
That's good. We're we're done.
I'm tapped out. But convenience has increased,
control has not. Streaming may also lack the
personal connection to the medium.
Tapes and burn CDs were made by someone for someone.
I'll say also that when music isso easy, you don't take it as
seriously. I mean, I, I remember when,
when, when I was limited to whatI could listen to.

(01:06:39):
I, I don't remember how I got myhands on a Tori Amos CD, but I
had listened to that thing for hours.
And even though it wasn't immediately like, I like some of
the songs, but it wasn't immediately like, oh, this is my
jam. I grew to love that music and
now it's a part of my life now because of that.
But I took an opportunity to take that that music and really,
really listen. And I think it's so easy to skip

(01:07:02):
now. I think that's why, you know,
our attention spans are smaller.So I, my daughter and I've been
going back listening to a lot ofmusic from like the Sixties, 70s
and 80s. And one of the things we are so
hung up on right now is Doctor Hook and the Medicine Men.
Holy crap, what incredible musicians.
And you want to talk about a juxtaposition.

(01:07:23):
I want you to listen to Sylvia'smother and then listen to Cover
the Rolling Stone. But if you want to go deeper
than that and I'll shut up afterthis, Levitate and then sing me
a rainbow. Levitate is the craziest song.
Listen to it with headphones because like Ray's in the
background going, I can't do that, man.
So, so good anyway. But music it, it brings joy.

(01:07:48):
It fills the gaps. It's I mean, that's kind of what
what it was made to do. We sang, you know, Tenacious D
the whole time we were over there when somebody pulled out a
guitar, which. Song was it Joe?
Well, tribute. Let's see, what was the other
one? It started with an F, but.
For all you albums out there whoaren't familiar with that song,

(01:08:09):
it starts with an F and ends with AK Gently.
Yes, but see, you know, now we've got we've got music
veteran voices, you know, ask any veteran want music to find
their deployment and and the answers range from brutally
honest to painfully funny. For troops that serve doing
Operation Iraqi Freedom, drowning pulls bodies and system
of a down were inescapable. I mean, you're gonna hear Afghan

(01:08:34):
Afghanistan rotations might comeoff with like Eminem rise
against her or Toby Keith on Reddit.
Former troops continue to share deployment playlist years after
their service. And one recent thread a user
wrote, If you didn't listen to bombs over Baghdad while
cleaning a 240, did you ever even deploy?
No, you were probably a fobbit. Another listed sale sale.

(01:08:58):
There's a video with a cat jumping off of like trying to
jump from one balcony to anotherand it's like sail as the cat
doesn't make the jump. I don't think it's hurt, but
that video always tickled my funny bone as a soundtrack of
their entire 2012 deployment, played daily while manning a
checkpoint. Songs mark more than mood,

(01:09:20):
though. They become part of memory.
I remember I read this book called Voema and when I listen
to Megadeth, that's the I think of that book non-stop.
And I've only read, I haven't read it in in 30 years.
The what is that song? Back off?

(01:09:40):
I'll take you on Headstrong anyway.
Headstrong, I think it's called Headstrong, is it?
Anyway that right that takes me back to my O3 deployment.
Yeah, work anyway. Oh, Rascal Flatts, yeah.
Song's just crazy. Songs mark more than Let's see,
they become part of memory. That Lincoln Park track might be
tied to a rocket attack, but theRascal Flatts song might mark

(01:10:03):
that final patrol before, you know, RIP rolls in.
And for me, though, it was weirdto listen to so much country,
and Rascal Flatts was part of it.
But it's just, it's like, that was my way of feeling like I was
close to home. But, you know, some songs, you
know, kind of like Tenacious D for us, arrived organically.

(01:10:23):
They don't get chosen, they get embedded.
A 2004 deployment might forever be linked to Evanescence.
Oh, yeah. Because that was the only CD
someone brought. Or like, for me, that was me and
my roommate. All we had was that R Kelly.
And. And so anytime we woke up in the
morning, it would be like, I don't normally do this, but I

(01:10:46):
mean, that's. Why we?
Know every morning because. You're listening to a pedophile.
Listen, we didn't know that. Then in the song bopped, OK, It
was the best. It was the only CD we had and it
was the we listened to that every every morning.
So but that was one of those organic ones.
A 2010 tour in Helmand might recall Katy Perry because the

(01:11:08):
interpreter played a daily. Troops don't always get to
choose what music becomes iconicbecause sometimes it happens in
the moment. You know, music does a certain
things. It's the way that smells and
scents. You know, sight doesn't always
do it. Seeing, seeing things doesn't
bother me, you know, But sometimes the smell or, or
certain music takes me back to aplace.

(01:11:29):
Yeah. And, And I think that's pretty
cool. Same.
I definitely have a lot of songsthat will will spark memories
and it's songs that I haven't necessarily heard in a long
time. Suddenly they'll just kind of
come on and my I'm just sprung back.
It's crazy how that can happen. Yeah, like the classic hit

(01:11:51):
Freedom isn't Free from Freedom isn't Free.
Oh boy. You know that movie?
Try it one more time. No, it's, it's freedom isn't
free. There's a hefty F and fee.
It's from that movie. That stupid puppet movie.

(01:12:14):
Oh my gosh. Team America.
Yeah. Yeah, please.
Yeah. America so.
Great. It was the worst movie ever.
Oh my God. I feel like everybody had a
stolen copy of it. Anyway, I think but the one of

(01:12:35):
the things that floated around them in in my house, my kids
have of course, never seen this movie, but one of the things
that float around in my house I time all the time is they're
like lambs to the slaughter out there without an actor or
without an actor. They're like lambs to the
slaughter. That's what it was.
Oh gosh. Alpha, let us know what your

(01:12:57):
songs were when you were a down range on deployment.
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, World War 2, wherever you
were. Send us an e-mail we want to.
Know and and as a side note, if somebody knows how Fortunate Son
became like the de facto song ofVietnam, it's from that one
movie, right? I don't know.

(01:13:17):
Is that from? Anyway, if somebody knows, feel
free to let me know. Sounds good.
All right, Elvis, thanks for listening.
You can subscribe to our podcastor our newsletter, or send us
send us mail or guest recommendations at legion.org.
Back slash Tal. Five stars.
Give us some five stars y'all. I want to be a five star Jen in

(01:13:38):
a row. We'll see ya.