EP#43: Mark Holman: The Unspoken Truth About Men’s Health & Hormones

In this episode, I interview Mark Holman, a health coach specializing in men's health and hormones, particularly testosterone. 

Mark shares his personal journey from being an environmental engineer to becoming a coach, emphasizing the importance of optimizing health and understanding hormonal balance.

The conversation delves into the symptoms of low testosterone, the significance of blood work, lifestyle changes, and natural supplements that can aid in boosting testosterone levels.

Mark also discusses the nuances of testosterone replacement therapy and the importance of individualized health approaches.

The episode concludes with fringe tips for hormonal health and the importance of paying attention to one's body signals.

Join us on this journey to understand and improve men’s health, and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments below!

You can find Mark on Instagram here:
https://www.instagram.com/markholmanhealth

You can learn more about Mark and his coaching services here:
https://go.markholmanfitness.com/unchainedbrochure

In This Video We Cover:
00:00 Intro: Mark Holman
10:24 Symptoms and Testing for Low Testosterone
15:52 The Importance of Getting Tested
19:11 Optimal Ranges for Testosterone
31:22 Major Disruptors of Testosterone
35:04 Lesser-Known Disruptors and Taking Action
39:44 Natural Supplements for Testosterone Support
42:08 Herbs for Testosterone Boosting
48:58 Testosterone-Boosting Foods
53:28 Fringe Practices and Individualized Approaches
01:04:15 Bio Individuality Regulation

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Much love,
Coach Tyler🤍

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Taught Not Told podcast.
Today I have an extremelyexciting episode.
I got my friend, mark Holman,who I met from another
mentorship.
That is an amazing coach andalso has amazing knowledge
around health and hormones,specifically testosterone, the
male hormone and I'm superexcited to dive in.

(00:21):
And, so being said, my man,mark, I would love for you to
introduce yourself andultimately give us a little
rundown of your story and whatultimately got you into coaching
man.
I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
My name is Mark Mark Holman Been in the health
industry, coaching for full timefor about like four and a half
years now.
So coming up on five, which isa major milestone.
What I do, I coach men.
I help men optimize theirhealth hormones, energy levels,
confidence, all that stuff.
And really how I got into thisI'll try and keep it brief Can
be a long story as much time asyou need.

(00:54):
Yeah, essentially I know whatit's like to be in the depths of
despair, to be at rock bottom,to not have good health, to lack
confidence, lack self-esteemand be stuck in a job that I
hate, it, that you hate.
So to go back to give youcontext, backstory, I actually
have an engineering degree.
I got a degree in environmentalengineering and right after

(01:17):
that I worked as anenvironmental engineer.
Well, not really as anenvironmental engineer, but as
more of a chemical engineer,working for industry, for oil
refineries, chemical plants, andthe whole reason why I got into
environmental engineering wasfor sustainability.
But I was actually working forthe polluters to help them fall
in line with the regulations, toallow them to pollute more and,

(01:38):
essentially, make more money.
So it was a direct conflict invalues.
That with the whole nine tofive lifestyle cubicle isolated,
I was living in a one bedroomapartment, just really lonely,
just not having a.
It was a direct conflict invalues that, with the whole nine
to five lifestyle cubicleisolated, I was living in a one
bedroom apartment, just likereally lonely, just not having a
good life.
And I did that for about threeyears and eventually got fed up
with it.
Throughout the whole time I waslike this can't be what life is
like.
There has to be something else.
There has to be something morefor me, because this just sucks,

(02:00):
and it wasn't until andthroughout this whole time.
I'm getting into fitness,getting really into lifting,
nutrition and all that stuff,but I wasn't quite able to get
the exact result that I wanted.
I was making decent progress,but not quite what I wanted.
So I ended up hiring my owncoach, and this is our mutual
mentor, jeremy.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's how I met him.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I was an OG fitness client and he really just like
exploded my brain as to what'spossible.
I didn't even know thatentrepreneurship was a possible
path for me, but I got exposedto him how he ran his business.
It seemed pretty simple.
You get leads through word ofmouth or social media and then

(02:43):
you coach them with yourknowledge and it's just like we
were doing email check-ins backin the day.
So it was super cut and dry,super simple, and I was like I
could definitely do somethinglike this.
So that was a seed that gotplanted.
And then I think I worked withhim in maybe 2016, 2017.
And then it wasn't until 2018that I finally got up the

(03:03):
courage to quit my job.
I traveled through Europe fortwo months.
I went to Costa Rica to visitsome friends and then I came
back and really just like putthe work in on the path.
It was majorly humbling.
I went from being an engineerand having that salary to
essentially working as a it wascalled fitness staff, but you're
essentially a janitor.
You'd wipe up, sweat, you'dclean towels, you'd pick up

(03:25):
towels from the locker room atthe jewish community center.
So very humbling experience,but it was what I needed to do
to put myself in the place whereI needed to be in a gym making
connections.
I was studying for my personaltraining certification, got that
, and so from that janitor job Ithat worked up to working at a
restaurant to also two gyms as apersonal trainer.

(03:47):
So really grinding and thentrying to build this online
business on the side, but notreally having enough bandwidth
time and not putting enoughenergy into it.
And then this gets us towards2020.
We all know what happened thatGyms get shut down, restaurants
get shut down.
So I was faced with a decisionDo I want to just dick around,
pick up unemployment, or do Ireally want to change my life,

(04:09):
go all in on myself and buildthis business that I've wanted
to for ever since I startedworking with Jeremy, and so I
did that.
I put 9K on a credit card for amentorship to teach me how to
create a business, and I didthat, and that was April 2020.
And now it's September 2024.
So, four and a half years later,it's been a constant evolution.

(04:30):
I started with just fitness, butit's constantly evolved more
like things like journaling,meditation, adding that in there
and then getting really intoholistic health, learning how to
analyze blood work and comingup with protocols based on blood
work and then to now reallyniching down on men and then
connecting back to, like, myexperience of just being lonely,
depressed, not where my healthneeded to be, low testosterone,

(04:52):
all those things.
As I was working with people, Ijust felt more and more called
to work with men just to helpwith this.
You know it's, it's hard to bea man in today's society.
I mean, it's hard to be a womanas well, but there are unique
problems that both sexes come upagainst and I just feel called
to really help men go on similarpaths that I went on of just

(05:15):
being like in the depths ofdespair to coming out and doing
that through optimal health,through optimal hormone levels,
and also there's a mindset andmental aspect of things as well.
But yeah, that's the long andshort of it.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Dude.
That is quite an amazing storyand it's actually kind of funny.
I do relate to you with theengineering thing.
I guess I dropped out of itsooner than you, in a sense
where I started my first twoyears of college I went as a
mechanical engineering major.
My first two years of college Iwent as a mechanical
engineering major and, as I wasdoing all my classes, all of my
free time was dedicated toworking out.
I was playing soccer in college, but I also was like working
out full time.

(05:54):
All I was doing is listening tofitness podcasts.
All I was doing on my computerwhen I wasn't doing homework was
studying fitness and health,and I was so fascinated by it so
I ended up changing my major tokinesiology and fell in love
with it, man, so I coulddefinitely relate to you.
In the early stages of thatjourney of all of our focus was

(06:15):
really on like the numbers of,like the workouts, the
statistics of like oh, am Igetting my steps and calories.
And I really love to hear that.
You know coaches, especiallythe great coaches that I know,
go from just the numbers and the, the those data points, to
really taking a step back andreally seeing that there's so

(06:36):
much of a bigger picture goingon, like how you mentioned the
journaling, the meditation andhow those things that inner work
, that other, those other thingsreally play a role in the
fitness journey.
I think a lot of people kind ofignore those things or don't
really include those things, andI really see those as signs of
a great coach is when youactually are not only talking
about those things butintegrating those things with

(06:57):
your clients as well.
So that's fantastic to hear,man, and thank you for sharing.
So I think, going into that, Isee that from your content.
I know, with the mentorshipthat we're part of, I know you
definitely are involved withthat in terms of helping other
people in that mentorship withhormones, and I know your
specialties to self-serve and Ialso know that you're not one to

(07:18):
shy away from investing inyourself and your knowledge.
So I would like to know is likewhere have you found most of
your knowledge when it comes totestosterone?
I know I think you recentlywent on a trip to to learn more
about testosterone.
So you know what, what hasultimately been like the, the
main source of a lot of thethings that you've been learning

(07:38):
about, testosterone or maybeand what are some of the like
really interesting and amazingfindings you've had over, say,
the last few years now.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, so the biggest place that I've learned pretty
much all of the deeper holistichealth stuff is from a
mentorship called the Instituteof Health.
It's my mentor, jake Carter.
He's over in Australia andthey're really, in my opinion,
running like the best healthmentorship for coaches, for
health coaches in my opinion,running like the best health

(08:07):
mentorship for coaches, forhealth coaches.
The amount of due diligencethat he puts into the modules
and then also the research tocreate the modules is ridiculous
.
And that trip that I went onwas to meet up with him and
learn.
He was doing a seminar inAmsterdam and it wasn't just on
testosterone but it was on bloodwork, advanced functional blood
work analysis, and so I wasreally exposed to the depths
that he goes to find the optimalranges and then from that you

(08:30):
can extrapolate like this iswhere the optimal like marker
lies and and because of like, ifit's high, there's like these
specific outcomes that areeither death or disease or
whatever, and then below sametype of things, and like how
being high or low correlateswith specific things like
nutrient deficiencies or mineraldeficiencies, like that.

(08:51):
So that's where I've learned alot of what I talk about in and
what I teach.
And then, further than that,like that's a that kind of
opened my eyes to what's outthere.
But there's also like individualstudy.
That I do is going throughthese studies, learning how to
look at specific studies andthen analyze, extrapolate what

(09:12):
that means and then apply it toreal life.
So that's what I did.
I did that for like the eighthour plane ride back home, just
diving into PubMed of, like thisis the specific thing that I
will want to look into.
Like testosterone and let's say, fenugreek.
Like what are the specificthing that I will want to look
into?
Like testosterone and let's sayfenugreek?
Like what do the studies say?
How much can it boost?
What do you need?
How do you need it standardizedto get the right outcome?

(09:35):
So, to wrap that up, it's like Iinvested myself in this
mentorship and then also there'salways continual education on
my end to look at the latestresearch, to look at good
research, to then extrapolatethat and then they use that with
clients, which is the thirdthing, is like the experiential
learning.
All this theory and all thestudies are great.
That gives you a place to start.
But then if you're notimplementing it, or if you are

(09:58):
implementing it and possibly notgetting results like maybe with
the specific people that youwork with, maybe it doesn't work
, or there's always an aspect ofbio-individuality, the N equals
one.
That I think is the biggestteacher of having the back and
forth of like let's start herewith this foundational thing
Does it work, does it not?

(10:19):
And then from that, learningand and fine-tuning your
approach based on thatAbsolutely and kind of diving
into that too.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Man, I feel like just understanding testosterone to
begin with, especially peoplewho will be diving into this or
listening to this and being likewhat the hell is testosterone?
I think it would be great ifyou could kind of give me and
the listeners a possiblebreakdown.
What would be the symptoms ofquote-unquote low testosterone?
As I know from my understanding, when it comes to high, low and

(10:54):
good or normal testosterone,there's such a big range and
recently I've had a few clientsget their hormone testes and
they're like, oh, you're normal,but really they're on the the
cusp of like what doctors callnormal and he doesn't feel great
.
But I'm curious to know, whenyou have a client or someone

(11:15):
that you're talking to andthey're like, oh, I think I
might have low testosterone,what are some of the symptoms
that are come as a result of lowtestosterone?

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah.
So low energy is going to be abig one, and we'll just talk
about specifically men right now.
So low energy, low libido,either not being able to put on
muscle or even losing muscle,workouts just not the same kind
of suck.
No drive and motivation to dothings to like excel.
So you think about dopamine, oflike going out, achieving, not

(11:46):
really having that.
Testosterone and dopamine arepretty heavily correlated.
Just feeling lethargic the mostgeneral way I can put it it's
what makes a man a man, and soif you're feeling less of a man,
then that's where you shouldlook.
You should definitely look intotestosterone levels and it's
funny you bring up the ranges.
I literally made a post aboutthat today.
The ranges are anywhere fromdepends on the lab, but like 200

(12:09):
to 900.
And you can have 850 and you'reconsidered normal, or you could
be 250 and you're considerednormal.
They're both treated the sameexact way, but the person who's
250 is likely struggling reallybad, and not just from the
physical stuff that I mentioned.
It's also mentally Depression,anxiety, lack of focus, lack of

(12:31):
confidence, self-esteem.
All of these things areimpacted by testosterone as well
.
So it's really important tohave in a good range.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Absolutely.
And the most important thingfrom my understanding is really
just like quality of life, and Idon't think people have the
wherewithal to really take thatstep back and really think into
like, oh man, I didn't realize.
But yeah, I have had a lack ofmotivation, have had a lack of
drive.
I probably should get myhormones tested and it's crazy

(13:02):
because a lot of people I feellike would benefit from.
Generally speaking, it's a lotof lifestyle factors that
contribute to testosterone and Ijust find it so interesting
because I've also heard multiplepeople and multiple stories
from other people saying likeI'm at like a four or 500 and I
feel perfectly fine, and thenthere's people that are in the

(13:24):
six 700 range.
They're like I feel horrible.
So is there some truth in that?
Is there an individual varianceof where people sometimes like
on the lower end can feel greatand feel normal and then people
on the higher end that don'tnecessarily feel great?

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah.
So I really love thisconversation.
It's with anything there'salways nuance, right?
So for the person, let's justgo through each of those
scenarios and I'll explain mythoughts.
So for the person who's fairlyhigher 700s that's only looking
at total testosterone and that'sa good marker to look at.
But you also have to look atfree testosterone, because free
testosterone is actually whatyour body can use.

(14:00):
So your total can be reallyhigh.
But if something called SHBG oryour estrogen or prolactin are
very high as well, your free isgoing to be low.
You're not going to feel theeffects of testosterone because
it's just not being used in yourbody.
So that's a possible scenariofor that guy.
And then also there could beother dysfunctions going on in

(14:20):
the body that are creatingissues.
So like you might have hightestosterone but maybe your
adrenals are fucked.
But usually if your adrenalsare fucked, your testosterone
isn't going to be, is going tobe hindered.
So there's some play with thatback and forth.
Usually if we see some healthhandbrakes going on,
dysfunctions elsewhere, they'regoing to trickle in hormones.
But I would definitely look atthe free testosterone

(14:41):
conversation before and thengoing to the guy who's a little
bit on the lower end but feelsgreat like his free.
Same thing His free could behigh because his SHBG is in
range, not high prolactin hisestrogen is fine.
So it's also about the.
It's not just about the number,it's about the ratios and the
relationship with everythingwithin the body and how that's
all interacting.
And there is also an aspect ofbio-individuality with

(15:04):
everything interacting.
And there is also an aspect ofbio-individuality with
everything.
Some people might feel fine,they might feel good at a lower
number.
Their baseline might just be500 and that's like their sweet
spot.
And possibly going above that,maybe their body just doesn't or
that's not what they need.
They wouldn't really feel adifference.
And so that's where it comesback to that thing that I was

(15:26):
saying.
Like the n equals one like.
There's always an aspect ofthat.
Everyone is like look at, ifyou were to look or google all
of the different like chemicalreactions that occur in the
human body, it's astronomicalhow much so there's got to be
variance between the peoplebased on like.
Do they have the substrates,their genetics, all these

(15:47):
different things?
So yeah, hopefully that answersyour question.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
That was a beautiful answer and I really think the
nuances in themselves definitelymake it more challenging to
navigate this for the generalpopulation and to really kind of
get a full grasp on.
Like, am I good, am I bad, orshould I just ignore this?
Or is this something I reallyneed to pay attention to?
And so I have two questions onthat topic, which would be how

(16:14):
do I know when I should gettested?
Is it something where I shouldjust start my journey 100% by
doing this?
Or, if I'm lacking themotivation, start my journey
100% by doing this?
Or if I'm lacking themotivation I'm stressed all the
time, my energy's low, I don'thave any drive should I get

(16:36):
tested?
Or should I try to improve mylifestyle, my habits?
Then, if that's still notimproving, then get tested to
see where I'm at.
I'm curious to know what yourperspective is on that.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, that's a good question.
So there's always multiplepaths you can go, but we'll
break it into two, so let's sayyou don't.
Well, let me back up when youshould get your blood work done.
I think it's always a good timeto do that, because the more
clarity you have around what'sgoing on inside of you, the
better and the more educatedyour approach can be.

(17:04):
So, for me, every client that Iget, we start with blood work
because it just gives us so muchspecificity in the approach.
They may not even be dealingwith a major health handbrake,
but our specificity and thelevel that we can improve is
much more targeted.
So our efforts are veryspecific and time isn't wasted.

(17:26):
So if you're fine with like Iwouldn't say wasting, but like
possibly not getting results inthe six months that you're
changing things, then you can goabout that.
But if you want to be reallylike targeted, really specific
with what you want to do, then Ithink blood work and getting it
analyzed by someone who knowswhat they're doing is a good
step.
Caveat to that, though, youshould always be improving your

(17:47):
lifestyle, improving yournutrition.
All of these things like thatshould always be a baseline.
So it's kind of both likedefinitely at the same time that
you want to get these tested,that you're experiencing some of
these symptoms, and you aren'taddressing lifestyle.
Like bro, it's obvious, likechange some of your lifestyle.
Like look into your sleep, lookinto nutrition.
If you're not working out, likedefinitely get into the gym and

(18:08):
start training.
Then from that, like, you canget a little bit more specific
if you want to.
And then the approach changesbecause there's also this you
know out in the fitness world,in nutrition, there's all these
diets right, there's vegan, cornof carnivore, paleo.
It can be confusing, and sowhat eliminates confusion is
clarity.

(18:28):
Through blood work you getclarity.
So you see, okay, what is theright diet framework for me,
what is the right macronutrientsplit?
So, if you have low stomachacid and you go crazy high
protein, you might create somedigestive issues.
So with the blood work, you geta much better idea of like,
okay, where should your fats be,where should your protein be,

(18:48):
where should your carbs be?
And then your approach is justmore specific to you.
And so you know that you havethe right plan for you and
you're not just pulling from aninfluencer here, influencer here
and just like mashing thingstogether.
Yeah, that's like a surefireway that you're not going to get
the best results, in my opinion100%.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
That was a fantastic answer.
I really like this man.
I'm really enjoying this.
I'm learning a lot, so thankyou, I think one of my next
things is really like when itcomes to the hormones, I know we
did talk about a little bit ofthe nuances, how everyone's a
little different.
Everyone has a range and an areaof which I will feel best in

(19:31):
this range.
You're going to feel best inthis range, he is going to feel
best in this range.
So my question is I know you'vebeen doing a lot more research,
I know you've been traveling alot.
I know you just got back fromthat conference, like you
mentioned too.
Now, when it comes to theaverage healthy person, I really
feel like the range is so broadand so big so it can account

(19:55):
for the general population whois generally overweight and,
like 75% of our population'soverweight, 50% is obese, right,
it's like these numbers are soastronomical now, so they have
to like throw that in.
Well, when we're talking aboutsomeone who's healthy and fit,
someone that takes care of theirhealth, what are the major
hormones or markers they shouldpay attention to?

(20:15):
So I know you've mentionedtestosterone, fetus testosterone
.
What would be like two to fourthat they should really pay
attention to and, in youropinion, with working with
hundreds of people, what aresome of the ranges or what would
be a good number to shoot forin terms of like feeling and
looking your best, generallyspeaking, I know, obviously,
like I said, it's going to bedifferent for everyone, but

(20:36):
generally speaking, yeah, no,that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Uh.
So definitely, like on thehormone side, free and total
testosterone are going to begood to look at.
Going more broad, let's look atliver enzymes.
So there's ALT, AST and ALP,One of the big things that's
becoming more and more.
I actually saw a statistic 18%of teenagers have fatty liver,

(21:00):
which is wild, and so obviouslya lot more adults have that and
this is just like a it'smetabolic disease essentially.
So, seeing more and more offatty liver in the general
population, we're expectingliver enzymes to be elevated.
Ggt as well is one to look into.
So that's four for liver, Just.
I mean, that's a good place tolook.
In general, it's just like hasthe liver, because the liver

(21:22):
just does so much, especiallywith you know you can say it
helps detox and all the toxinsthat we're exposed to on a
day-to-day basis is pretty high.
So we want to make sure thatthat system is functioning
properly and if there's fattyliver, that's definitely
something to address.
So that's the liver.
I would look at blood glucose.
You know this is one that wecould look into.

(21:44):
Diabetes is at an all time high.
Type two prediabetes I thinkthat was like at either 50
percent of people are eithertype two or prediabetes.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Even in children.
I've seen statistics showinghow prediabetes and diabetes in
children is on the rise, whichis equal.
Crazier to see.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, it's wild, but blood glucose would be a good
one because that shows what'syour blood sugar like and if
it's super high, then there'ssome metabolic issues.
Type 2 diabetes is essentiallyvery high blood glucose.
So, looking at blood glucose,hba1c and insulin those three
for blood sugar, health and a1cis essentially your 90-day blood

(22:31):
sugar, so it's a little bitlonger term.
Instead of just like a snapshot, it gives you a 90-day, which
is valuable information, andthen insulin and blood sugar.
Those two go hand in hand.
If both are high, h a1c is high, glucose is high, insulin is
high.
That's definitely something toaddress because diabetes is not

(22:52):
good, highly inflammatory.
There's tons of differentissues that come with that.
So those would be like twoareas to look at.
I'll talk about cholesterol inthe sense of I'm not that fussed
about cholesterol being high.
Everyone, from doctors,everyone's been scared about
good, bad cholesterol, but it'skind of a myth.

(23:14):
If we look at LDL, there's beenstudies that have been done and
this is actually crazy to methat the reference ranges on
labs include zero.
If you had zero, they'd be like, yeah, you're fine, but that's
insane to not have any LDL,because cholesterol is actually
an antioxidant.
It's actually good.
It is a precursor totestosterone, so we actually

(23:34):
need it.
But based on, like the flawedscience and the flawed studies
that they did a while back, justcholesterol and LDL got
demonized.
But getting back to the study,it actually showed that lower,
like, there's groups, so liketertials, they're thirds, thirds
or fourths, and they found thatthe lower thirds and fourths

(23:56):
with LDL and cholesterol wereactually at a higher risk of
dying from all cause mortality.
So this is literally any typeof death disease whatever.
Compared to the people theyweren't in the highest tertial,
but maybe, let's say, the top70% to 80%.
So high, high cholesterol.
But that's where there was thelowest cause of all-cause

(24:19):
mortality and this study wasdone over a very large
population.
So it's a good study.
It's not just like this randomthing that was done on five rats
in a laboratory.
It's very large, robust,statistically significant, so
it's definitely something to belooked at.
But then here's another thingthe lag between this type of

(24:39):
research and medical practice isridiculous.
I think it's around 17 yearsGoing to a doctor and getting
their advice.
It's so outdated that you'renot getting the best information
that you can possibly get.
And that's where coaches likeyou and me we come in and we
have a lot more opportunity.
We're not within this system,the medical system.

(25:01):
We have a little bit morefreedom to utilize peer-reviewed
research to our advantage, andnot just from our medical school
background, like spew, what wewere taught, that's been being
taught for the past like 50years 100% man.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
And going back to what I was saying about
testosterone and freetestosterone, because here's the
thing I'm not exactly sure.
I haven't gotten my intestinein a long time, which, by the
way, I feel like it'd be reallycool if I could have you back on
and maybe say six months or so,if not sooner, if I could go

(25:38):
get mind tested and then youcould just rip me apart and I
feel, like that'd be kind ofcool to share with the audience.
So if you're watching this, inwhatever platform, shoot me a
message or comment and let meknow if that would be something
you'd be interested in.
There's Mark ripping me amessage or comment and let me
know if that would be somethingto be interested in.
There's mark ripping me a newone of my hormone levels.
But, that being said, I knowlike, generally speaking, people

(25:58):
could probably go to theirgeneral practitioner and request
a hormone test.
Um, I'm not sure how manydifferent markers they include
in that, and so I'm curious whatwould you recommend when it
comes to testing?
Would Would you recommend theygo to their doctor?
Would you recommend using athird-party lab, or do you have
a company you work withspecifically, just out of

(26:19):
curiosity?

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, so it kind of depends on your doctor.
Some people have really cooldoctors that are up with the
times and they'll get themwhatever test they want.
Others not so much, and youreally have to pull their arm
and specifically to gettestosterone tested even just
like total and not free you haveto go in there and tell them
that you have ED erectiledysfunction or they won't even
think about it.
So there's definitely thatDepends on your doctor, but I

(26:44):
don't even mess around with that, I just go third party.
There's a website calledMerrick Health, m-a-r-r-e-k
healthcom.
That's where I send all myclients.
I got a code, mark Coleman, 10%off your order.
I don't get any commission, but10% on blood work definitely
helps and usually the panel thatI recommend it comes around 250
bucks, which is really not bad.
I've looked at so many differentcompanies and Merrick has been

(27:06):
the cheapest, most affordableand just the experiences is
really good and you canliterally go on the website and
order exactly what you want andI've got a.
I've got a panel I can sendpeople if they want.
After they listen to this, theycan just message me or you or
whatever, and I can share withthem of like how exactly to to
create the panel.
Um, but yeah, I woulddefinitely go third party

(27:29):
because it's just a headache toto deal with your doctor and
they're, if you can tell themlike, I want a comprehensive
panel, it's not going to becomprehensive enough, like
that's from my experience.
For some reason they gatekeepthese blood tests.
I really don't know why?

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Because awareness of your hormones hurts them from
making money on us being sick,which is a crazy statement to
make, but it's absolutelyfactual.
I'm sure we could go down a lotof rabbit holes and into the
deep darkness that comes from Iknow, like how you touched on
cholesterol and pharma, possiblybeing involved in that realm,

(28:02):
and definitely too many thingsthat I've took too much time
diving into, to be honest.
But we'll stay, we'll keep savethose ones for another time.
But I'm kind of going back towhat I was mentioning about the
testosterone or freetestosterone, because I feel
like most people who end upgetting a blood test or
testosterone test, they reallymight be curious of like, okay,

(28:22):
maybe they have a path, so whenthey can take a peek at, or they
have a doctor's visit coming upand they're going to ask what
would be that ideal range, thatsweet spot that you've seen in a
majority of your clients or thegeneral population to be like,
is it around a 600?
Is it around a 700 fortestosterone?
And what would be that numberfor free test that you would say

(28:44):
like that's a pretty good onefor, generally speaking again, I
know the nuances, yeah, ofcourse.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
So my optimal ranges for total testosterone is 700 to
900.
And you know 700 is.
We'll just say 700 is the lowerlimit, because if you're above
900, I'm not freaking out either, I'm actually impressed.
So 700 is the lower limit fortotal.
Three is a little bitinteresting because different
labs use different tests and soI've seen, I've seen some be

(29:14):
like closer to 300 and then, andthat being like optimal, and
then the other test is like it'smore in the single digits, so
that one's a little bit morenuanced.
But if it's, and it's like, youhave to understand which one
you get, because you could be inthe single digits but the
optimal range is 300.

(29:34):
So like looking at the units,looking at the actual test, what
are they normally measured?

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Is it like nanograms per deciliter?

Speaker 2 (29:42):
So yeah, total testosterone is nanograms per
deciliter.
Free me check.
Don't remember free units offthe top of my head.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Those are.
Those units always kind ofconfuse me and I've always been
like, okay, I have an idea, Ijust know the numbers, but I
don't necessarily know whatthose units always mean.
That wasn't always my specialty.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, so total is nanograms per deciliter in the
US, it's different in the UK andelsewhere.
And then free is picograms permilliliter, and so the range,
what I've seen, the normal range, would be like anywhere from
like five to 20 or so, and so Iusually like it like 11,.

(30:25):
11 to 20 is usually a littlebit sweeter, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
That's super helpful, man, thank you.
Thank you for sharing that, andI know, like I said, and just
if you're listening to this,know that everyone's different,
everyone's range is going to bea little different of where you
feel your best, but I wascurious to know like a general
range.
So that was helpful.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, I think.
I think, if you like, it's notjust looking at the numbers,
like you have to mergesubjective and objective.
So blood work can be objectivebut, like, subjective is how do
you feel, what symptoms are youexperiencing?
Correlating all that together?
So like, whenever anyone comesinto my program, they get the
blood work but they also getthis very extensive screening
form that talks about a bunch ofdifferent systems, questions,

(31:06):
symptoms, all that stuff.
So it's merging those twotogether to get a really clear
picture of what is exactly goingon.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Absolutely.
Couldn't agree more with that,and I think that applies to
pretty much every aspect of thefitness and health journey in
itself as well.
And I think, going into thesymptoms of being low
testosterone, I think commonly,like we talked about the energy,
the mood, the stress, anxiety,the lack of drive.

(31:33):
Now, either someone isrealizing right now, dang, I
really do have those symptomsand I should probably get my
testosterone checked, or they'rein a place where, like, I
really don't have the financialmeans to go get my testosterone
checked, but I really do want tostart making the right
decisions to move this in theright direction, assuming my

(31:53):
testosterone is low.
Number one what are the biggestdisruptors to testosterone that
are causing people to have lowtestosterone?
And then, what are some of thelesser known disruptors that
people should avoid or startavoiding, even though some of
them have been in their livesfor a very long time?

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, no good question.
So the big ones, the biggestrocks we can move sleep.
Even if it's just one night ofbad sleep, your testosterone can
drop by like 30%.
So ensuring that you have, andso think about that.
Chronically it's tanking.
If you're sleep apnea, insomnia, just not getting good sleep,

(32:32):
your testosterone is going to beon the floor.
So sleep is paramount to reallydial in and optimize.
Stress is another one.
So it's really the basics.
The big ones are really thebasics, like optimizing your
sleep and your stress managementwith work.
And then you're training sevendays a week, super hard, high

(32:53):
volume, high frequency, highintensity, like everything is
high.
You're going to doing more harmthan good, and so that's
another thing.
The nuance with training, liketraining lifting weights very
good for testosterone, butthere's a balance, right.
If you overdo it, if you'retraining too hard, overtraining
or rather lack of recovering,you're gonna have your hormones

(33:14):
are gonna be on the floor.
So those are definitely thebiggest one.
And then, like, there'sobviously nutrition, like make
sure you're eating anutrient-dense diet, you're not
eating processed food, all thisbullshit.
Those are, those are thebiggest things that you can
really start to change.
And, yeah, getting into thelesser known ones.
I always like to talk aboutplastics.

(33:34):
So this might be, this might belike lesser known, but kind of
getting into the more more knownthese days because it's
becoming more and more spokenabout plastics using plastics.
So this is, like you know, theclassic meal prep you put your
food in the plastic, youmicrowave it, that plastic's
leaching into the food you'reeating, that it's getting into
your bloodstream, wrecking yourhormones.
You know just every source ofplastic, even the clothes that

(33:56):
you wear polyester.
This is probably a lesser knownone yeah, everybody just end up
with their shirts off at the endof the podcast.
Polyester it's actually plastic.
You know they, you you'll seethem talk about how their
clothing is made from recycledplastic and it's created
polyester and you're like, oh,recycled plastic, that's great.

(34:17):
But then you think about it.
Our skin is our largest organ.
It's absorbing whatever is liketouching it, and so if it's
plastic rubbing up against itthroughout the whole day, you're
absorbing some of that.
If you even go further down,you think about our underwear
polyester underwear.
There's actually studies thatshow that polyester underwear is
a contraceptive which is wild.

(34:38):
It is reversible, so if youstop wearing it, you'll get the
fertility back.
But fertility and testosteroneand health are very correlated.
So if we see something stoppingour fertility, we know that
it's definitely not going to behealthy for us.
So opting for natural fibersorganic cotton is my favorite
wool stuff like that, especiallyif you're a man and you're

(34:59):
using polyester underwear Iwould stop that immediately and
start to replace your wardrobethere.
Further, air pollution is onethat's maybe not talked about
too much, depending on where youlive.
If you live in a city, if it'sa fairly polluted area, air
pollution can kind of wreakhavoc on the hormones, and so

(35:22):
simply just getting an airfilter in your home, where you
spend the most time.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Do you have a recommendation on air filter?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
by the way, I haven't looked at them for a while, but
I think Air Doctor is a reallygood one yeah that's usually
I've heard about that here yeah,and you like, if you can only
afford one, like where do youspend the most time?
Probably sleeping, so puttingit in your bedroom is going to
help with sleep quality, stufflike that.
Or if you're a high performer,maybe in your office.
You spend more time in youroffice than you sleep.
Um, true, yeah, now that I'mthinking about it, I was like I

(35:53):
probably spend more time in myoffice.
Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, those arethe.
Those would be the lesser knownones on that side of things,
for sure man dude.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
I always find this topic extremely fascinating
because there are so many thingslooking back to my childhood of
like, wow, I really did not payany attention to this,
Obviously.
I mean, I was eating HotPockets for lunch, bro.
I'd come home from school, popone of those things in the
microwave.
You know it's like but, now I'mlike shit dude.
I probably did so much damage.

(36:26):
Thankfully, I'm in a muchbetter place At least I feel so
place, at least I feel so.
One of the other things thatI've heard thrown around and
I've heard from on otherpodcasts is, like this term
called forever chemicals Kind ofthese things that you'll find
in plastics is one big one.
But I also know like alsopeople's products that they put

(36:46):
in their hair or on their skinand lotions, and is there any
truth behind that?
And are there companies and orproducts that you'd recommend to
avoid and or to be smarter orspend a little more money when
purchasing?

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, that's a really good one as well.
All these chemicals areendocrine disrupting chemicals,
which endocrine system ishormones, so it just gets in
there and disrupts hormoneproduction.
Things like, yeah, the personalcare products, cleaning
products, is going to be a bigone, like cleaning sprays,
bleach, things like thatColognes as well.
Something that I learned, maybea few like five years ago

(37:25):
possibly, is the word fragrance.
If that's on a cleaning productor like a cologne or anything,
that can literally be aconglomeration of like a
thousand different chemicals andall they have to do is just put
fragrance.
It's kind of like a loopholeand it's, you know, to get this
the perfect scent.
There's probably a lot of stuff, random stuff, that's going in

(37:47):
there to get this a lot ofdifferent chemicals, but they
can just call it fragrance andthen so it's like oh, it's just,
it's just this, this andfragrance.
But what is the fragrance?
It's kind of like a protectedterm that no one really knows
what it is.
So that was like a kind oftidbit that I learned.
And yeah, like colognes,deodorants even this isn't

(38:08):
necessarily from foreverchemicals, but deodorants with
aluminum.
That's a heavy metal that'sgetting into your bloodstream
and you know it's.
It's kind of funny like itstops you from sweating.
But sweating is how we detoxand so you're like stopping the
detox process with somethingthat's like a heavy metal.
It's just kind of bonkers to me, but people don't want to be

(38:30):
sweating, be stanky, but there'sdefinitely like workarounds,
like you can get aluminum freedeodorant.
Schmitz is a really good brandthat I've been using for a long
time All natural.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
I was literally going to ask you a brand, because I
know a lot of people like oh,like the aluminum free ones ones
, they just come off and theyget all over my clothes or they
don't actually work.
So I'll definitely have to trythat brand.
I have another one that I use.
I can't even remember the nameoff the top of my head, but yeah
, I've tested six different onesuntil I found one where I was
like, okay, this one actuallyworks good, it has no bad

(39:00):
chemicals or anything in it.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, schmitz for deodorant and then cleaning
products products.
Branch basics is a really goodbrand.
Um, dr bronner's is really goodfor soap, like I use that for
for body wash, and then alsothey have like a cleaning,
cleaning spray or cleaning soapas well.
Those are, those are prettysimple.
I use dr bronner's for a lot ofthings amazing that was
fantastic.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Now that someone's recognized okay, I have the
lotus offstone, I'm gonna startfixing my.
They've already been makingthose better habits in their
lifestyle.
They're like okay, I'verealized that the biggest
disruptor for them was sleep.
They got that on track.
They got through away all theirunderwear, bought all new
cotton, 100% cotton, the highquality stuff.
Now they're rocketing androlling in the right direction.

(39:45):
Maybe they're still noticinglike hey, I'm still not
optimized, I'm still not where Iwant to be in terms of my
testosterone levels or mysymptoms.
Obviously, there's a plethoraof things that could be involved
in this, but I'm curious arethere any on one end natural

(40:06):
supplements, foods and oralternative supplements that
would be recommended for someonethat is trying to say, boost
testosterone or encourage moreproduct, more testosterone
production?

Speaker 2 (40:23):
yeah, um, there definitely is the like.
Testosterone boostingsupplements do work, but there's
a caveat in the sense of is itwhat you actually need?
So this is like.
This is the point where I'd belike 100, don't waste any of
your time and money and effort.
Get your blood done.
Get your blood tested so we canreally see what exactly is
going on.
So we're not like trying thissupplement and then this

(40:45):
supplement, and then thissupplement and then not getting
results and you're like pissed.
You're like, oh, like I triedall this stuff but it's like we
didn't know that you needed itor didn't need it.
So getting blood tests ahundred percent at this point,
yes.
That being said, I'm just goingto assume that this person is
deficient in everything that Italk about.
So they're going to get theboost.

(41:11):
So zinc is a big one.
Zinc is actually required forluteinizing hormone, which is
essentially what tells our ballsto create testosterone.
So if you're deficient in zinc,you're going to be suffering
from slightly loweredtestosterone levels because your
body's just not working asoptimally as possible.
Same thing with vitamin D.
There's a study done, I thinkit was around 18% increase when
supplemented with vitamin D, andthis is people with deficient
vitamin D, which is a largeportion of the population.

(41:32):
The majority of bloods that Isee are vitamin D deficient, and
this is not just on the normalranges but also the optimal
ranges, which is all a lottighter.
We'd want your vitamin D to bea lot higher.
Zinc vitamin D we can look atlike the thyroid is very
important too.
So ensuring selenium isadequate Less studies on
selenium than zinc and vitamin D.

(41:54):
Zinc and vitamin D are like thestaples in terms of nutrients.
Magnesium as well is going tobe good.
Most people are deficient inmagnesium just because of the
soil, the foods.
It's kind of hard to get a lotof magnesium from food, so
that's going to be a goodsupplement that might give you
an edge.
That's nutrients.
So in terms of like herbs,tongkat Ali is really a popular
one these days.
Huberman talked about it andmade it famous.

(42:14):
I'm a big fan of that.
It helps with mediating stress.
It helps with lowering SHBG,which we talked about, which can
increase free testosterone, soyou'll get that benefit.
Can also possibly like helpstimulate luteinizing hormone as
well.
So that one's.
I love that one.
But the thing here as well, withany of these supplements, you
want to make sure that you'regetting a high quality
supplement, and the thing withthese herbs is they need to be

(42:36):
like.
If you look at the study, thestudy is done on the specific
like active ingredient to acertain standardization.
So you have to make sure thatthe product that you're getting
is one dosed correctly and twostandardized adequately, so
you're getting what you need forthat effect that they saw in
the study.
There's so many brands outthere that don't do this and
they just are selling thisproduct based on hype.

(42:59):
They say it's got Tongkat Aliand you're like oh, I heard on
Hube and Tongkat Ali works.
And you're like you buy it, it,but you don't get the result
because the product sucks.
That's a big thing that I seeand I do like these, these tea
booster product like myth bus, Iguess and just kind of tear
them apart, because a lot ofthem are doing this.
They're using proprietaryblends which, if you don't know

(43:19):
what that is, it's essentiallylike pixie dust.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
They're all the ingredients.
They're like just a little bitof this, a little bit of that
yeah, yeah, they're.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
They like it's 200 milligrams of like 10 different
things.
So you're probably not evengetting like one milligram of
something.
But it has tonkat, it hastribulus, it has fenugreek.
So you're like, oh, those areall known test boosters.
This product's amazing, but theproprietary blend, it's not
standardized, it's at tooinsignificant of a dose.
So you're wasting, wasting yourmoney and unfortunately I see

(43:47):
that a lot with this, the teabooster industry and stuff.
And, that being said, likethere are good products out
there.
You just have to find them.
You just have to know what tolook for.
And if they have a proprietaryblend, like, just turn around,
throw it away.
I don't trust that becausethey're not transparent.
If a brand isn't transparent,you know I don't trust you.
So that's a really good filterto look through if you're

(44:09):
looking for supplements andproducts.
That was a quick tangent, butwe'll come back.
Tomcat Fidoja Agressis has beentalked about again by Heberman.
That's decent.
I don't really use that as much.
There is some toxicitypossibilities if you take it
longer term and the dose ispretty high.
So I steer away from that.

(44:31):
Fenugreek, like I talked about,I think it's like prostaglandins
, is like the specific.
I might be butchering that thatmight be something else.
No, it's something else.
It's proto-cidin or somethinglike that.
It doesn't matter.
But same things.
Standardize the like.
Actual active ingredient infenugreek needs to be
standardized.
Tribulus works for some people.
That's something that you need.
A fairly high dose, like around900.
And a lot of these productsthey throw tribulus in there and

(44:52):
it's 200 and you're just notgoing to get an effect.
Let's see, those are definitelythe heavy hitters For free
testosterone.
So when SHBG is high you canuse something like boron to help
lower SHBG.
That one's kind of you have totake that strategically because
if you take it for too long itcan raise estrogen.
So boron is what I use forpeople who have high SHB engine

(45:14):
and then low estrogen.
That's perfect for them.
I really love boron and thenstinging nettle root as well is
going to help lower SHBG.
Free up that free testosterone.
Those are definitely the heavyhitters.
You're doing good if you'refinding a product and it has
those, or you're likespecifically seeking those out,
ideally after you get your bloodwork done and you're like, oh,
my free was low, my shpg washigh, my estrogen is low.

(45:37):
Mark said boron's good for that, I'm gonna go with boron.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
That is fantastic, and I know there's probably
going to be a coupleknuckleheads on here listening
that are like, oh, I'm justgonna just going to go buy all
these supplements.
So, number one, I need to makesure I advise that if you are
doing this first, you are doingyourself a disservice and you're
literally just putting abandaid on a really big, gaping
wound and it's not going to doanything for you long term.
You might feel good for a weekor two and hopefully Mark can

(46:04):
back me up on that one, butultimately I do 100% agree.
I think going as natural as youcan and going through the
lifestyle things where mostpeople are messing up is going
to be the most important thing.
And then, once you've tested,once you find out what's really
I feel like correct me if I'mwrong, but I feel like one of
the best ways to really optimizeyour health is really, once you

(46:27):
have all the micronutrientlevels tested, all of those
things, and building asupplement protocol that is very
specific to what you'redeficient in.
That alone can not just yourtestosterone, but just your
general quality of life andhealth could make significant
impacts.
Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah, 100%, and this is actually what I do with my
clients as well.
They all come in.
They track their food for thefirst seven days and beyond, but
the first seven days we'reusing an app called Cronometer
and it actually tracksmicronutrients as well.
So from that we get theirweekly nutrients and we can see.
You know, this is how they'vebeen eating.
They're deficient in this, thisand this, and so maybe it's

(47:08):
from that we're like, okay,start eating these foods that
are high in these nutrients thatyou're deficient in.
Or if it's something likemagnesium, possibly vitamin E or
vitamin A Vitamin A is a littlebit easier, but vitamin E, then
you know, strategicallytargeted supplementation there
is going to really help you getthat specific nutrient filled
and just feel way better 100%.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
And just before I forget, I do want to dive into
foods, but just so, if someoneis trying to do some research.
They've done a lot of thesethings.
Again, they did all theprerequisites.
Is there a brand that youtypically like when it comes to
the supplements, whether it'sthe nutrients or the, the

(47:49):
Tongkat Ali, for example?
Is there a brand?

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yeah, so I don't have any affiliation or anything.
But the brand that I reallylike is Now Foods and the reason
why I like them third partytested.
They're very transparent.
They do studies on otherproducts and they always come
back as like, what is what theysay is in there is actually in
there.
Now Foods is really good.
They don't have everything, butwhat I like for more like on

(48:17):
the herby side is NootropicsDepot Same thing third party
tested Like I trust that companya lot, so those would be my top
two that company a lot, sothose would be my top two now
foods for like nutrients andthen nootropic depot for some of
the more fringy stuff Beautiful.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Thank you so much for sharing that.
And to kind of dive into foods,uh, I'm curious are there
testosterone boosting foods orfoods that seem to be more, say,
anabolic in a sense of that,are going to be best for our
testosterone foods that weshould regularly include into
our diet if we are looking toenhance or maintain healthy

(48:57):
testosterone levels?

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, so what comes to mind first is pomegranate.
They've done studies onpomegranate increasing
testosterone by I want to say 18in the teens teens to low 20s.
But you'd have to look and lookinto that, that's one, I think
it's I think it's pomegranatejuice, if I, if I remember
correctly.

(49:18):
But again, it's like really highquality stuff.
It's not the concentrate, sothat's that's one that that
could be cool.
I really like and this is kindof weird, but you get a lot of
benefits from it is eatingpomegranate like a, like an
orange, so like you're noteating the outer skin but you're
eating the pith inside, whichis like kind of kind of bitter,
but there's tons of benefitsthere.
Like pomegranate is a modbiotic, which is it's

(49:40):
selectively antimicrobial, soit'll help proliferate good
bacteria in the gut but but alsokill bad bacteria in the gut.
It's super cool.
So pomegranate.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Blew my mind, bro yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
That is so cool, I had no idea.
That is one.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
I've never heard of.
I feel like I try to keep up todate with this stuff, and
that's actually one thatliterally just blew my mind.
I had no idea about that.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Hell yeah.
So yeah, pomegranate's goodAfter that.
It's just like making sureyou're eating nutrient dense
foods.
So like grass fed liver isgoing to be really good.
Tons of vitamin A, copper, zincin that is going to be really
beneficial.
People talk about oystersbecause it's just super high in
zinc, a highly bioavailable zincas well.
Those are going to be good ones, ensuring that you have

(50:23):
adequate fat intake as well.
Like hormones, they need fatsto be created Cholesterol as
well.
So making sure that you'regetting adequate fats, like
omega-3s.
Salmon, wild caught, you know,your grass-fed steak, grass-fed
beef, that type of things.
Eggs yeah, eggs as well.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
The thing about eggs Got the cholesterol and fat
right.
Yeah, yes, no, I was just gonnasay yeah, don't make me stop
eating eggs.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
No, no, eggs are cool .
Eggs are cool, you're good.
The one thing I will, though,will say is some people can be
sensitive to eggs.
It is kind of high on the, itcan be high in histamine, and if
you have gut issues, eatingeggs might not be the best for
you.
I actually experienced that.
I was like eating scrambledeggs every day and I was like
just my stomach was wrecked andit was just not a fun time, and
then I was like, oh, it'sprobably the eggs, and I stopped

(51:08):
eating eggs and I was fine.
So I like it's.
It's a high on the allergen list, so that's my only caveat on
eggs.
Like this is my the thing thegripe that I have with like
influencers that just likepromote a specific food or diet.
It's like, yeah, it's a goodfood, it's very nutrient, dense,
but there has to be like anuance of caveat, of like it

(51:29):
might you know, only if youdigest it well.
Same thing with dairy.
I'm a fan of dairy.
I do well with dairy.
Some people do better with rawdairy, which is something to try
out, but if you're lactoseintolerant, like dairy isn't
going to boost your testosteroneat all.
It's going to make you feellike shit, 100%, 100%.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
I will say eggs.
I've noticed a big differencegoing from normal store-bought
eggs even if you buy the reallygood ones, versus farm-fresh,
farmer's market high-qualityeggs.
The yolks just look completelydifferent, but also I feel so
much better eating those versusCostco eggs or just normal

(52:07):
store-bought eggs.
It's dramatic difference.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Yeah, I actually did like a mini experiment comparing
the Costco.
They call them pasture-raised.
And then I went over to WholeFoods and I got the Vital Farms
pasture-raised and they lookcompletely different.
The Costco was like way moreyellow, which is like less
nutrient, and then the VitalFarms which is a good brand they
were.
It was way more orange and Iwas like that's interesting.

(52:31):
I don't trust Costco brandstuff anymore.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
I know right, it's kind of a trip.
Wow, dude, I'm still kind ofshocked on the pomegranate thing
.
I am.
I'm gonna start eating thoseway more often, man, yeah, wow,
I've honestly learned so muchtoday.
This is phenomenal.

(52:55):
I'm pretty blown away by yourdepth of knowledge on this topic
and I know for a fact a lot ofpeople are going to get some
value out of listening to this.
And, like I said, man, honestly,one of the biggest things that
I feel like I want to take tothe next level with my clients
and my business, I feel like, isthat realm of hormones.
I just had a lady on last weekwhere we talked about a lot of

(53:16):
the female cycle and the femalehormones, and that's why I'm
stoked that we stoked onmale-specific testosterone and
really understanding that.
And even then, I do feel likesome women would get value
listening to this.
But I think my next question isreally of all revolves around
like kind of I know recentlywent on that trip and everything

(53:36):
you said, you learned some newthings.
Is there anything that I didn'ttouch on or anything
specifically that's in your mindright now that is like oh, this
was a really cool thing Ilearned, or this was really
fascinating, or um, yeah,anything testosterone related
that I didn't touch on that youfeel like is worth sharing, uh,
and can be valuable for peoplelistening.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Yeah, definitely, and it's slightly controversial,
but we'll we'll go into it.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, the whole idea of TRT, right, testosterone
replacement therapy it's all therage these days and everyone
who is on it or thinking aboutit thinks it's like a miracle
pill, think it's the next bestthing, but it's really not.
There's people that do it andI'm in these like TRT support
groups and stuff just to keep myfinger on the pulse and there's

(54:21):
people posting every day aboutissues that they're experiencing
, like their blood markers areoff, they have to donate blood.
They're you know, just not youknow.
Maybe they felt great two weeksin, but now they don't feel
good, and so there's a lot oflike variants and why.
That is One.
The main point that I want toget across is just like it's a

(54:42):
bandaid.
We talked about conventionalmedicine and that whole approach
.
You're addressing symptoms.
You're not addressing the rootcause.
You're not addressing why doyou have low testosterone in the
first place.
Look at that and then, ifyou've tried everything that you
can think of, then maybe it isa good idea to hop on trt.
Or, if you know, you're just inthe depths of despair and

(55:04):
things are really really, reallybad, like maybe it's a means to
an end and then you get off,but there's a lot of negative
impacts as well.
There's like fertility impactsif you're on trt and you're
trying to conceive.
There can be issues there whichI feel like doesn't get talking
about that much.
And then also, which I think isreally funny, is the carrier

(55:27):
oils that are used to injectwith are seed oils most of the
time.
So someone can be very intotheir health and like, oh, I
avoid seed oils, but they're onTRT and they didn't check, or
they some people check, but it'slike cotton seed oil is a big
one, sesame oil I forget theother one but they're
essentially injecting.

(55:47):
Corn oil, I think is used aswell, and you're like why you
wouldn't even eat that, butyou're injecting that shit into
your body.
It's wild.
So that's that's like a funnylittle tidbit that not many
people know or talk about, whichI think is silly.
And then another crazy thing.
These are really fringe things,but essentially if you're using
a needle going through a rubberor a plastic vial, the needle

(56:12):
that you're using this is veryobscure, so take it with a grain
of salt.
Very obscure, so take it with agrain of salt.
But you're puncturing with theneedle through like plastic or
rubber, and then there's apossibility that some of that
rubber can be in the needle asyou inject.
So you might be injecting, likerubber, plastic microplastics
into your body as well.
Very fringe, like I wouldn'tworry too much about that, but

(56:33):
that's something that I learnedon this trip that I was like
didn't even think about that.
But yeah, the main thing islike it's a bandaid and you're
possibly not addressing the rootcause and that could lead you
to not get the results that youwant.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
I've always had an interesting perspective on that
and I mean, personally, I'venever wanted to take any
performance enhancing drugs.
I never have.
I've never wanted to For manyof those reasons of like, when I
was really getting into lifting, just doing my homework and
research and reading into it andunderstanding my building,

(57:06):
because obviously, like, whenyou start wanting to get big,
you go look up bodybuilders andI was like so fascinated but I
was like that just seems likesuch an irresponsible and
dangerous thing to do as such ayoung man for myself personally.
And so I was like I absolutelydo not want to do that.
And I have a very similarperspective in terms of like,
okay, clients have asked meabout that in the past and I've

(57:27):
always recommended we need todial everything else in first.
If we do the sleep, we get thestress levels lower, we manage
your nutrition, we dial in yourmicronutrients.
We do all of that first.
Only then, if you are stillseeing bad symptoms, should we
even consider that.
And I just feel like too oftenpeople are going to looking for

(57:49):
that shortcut, that quick fix.
And I mean it's the same withpeople's diets, man.
They're like, oh, I want tolose weight.
Like what's the pill, what'sthe injection, what's the what's
?
What should I go do to?
It's like now, like there's somany other things we got to do,
and look at first before we tryto just take the shortcut
because you're not fixing theactual problem, you know.
So, yeah, I think that's agreat one.

(58:09):
I thought it was a fantasticshow.
I don't think that'scontroversial one bit, to be
honest opinion.
But uh, hopefully we pissed afew people off there.
But um, aside from that, wasthere any other interesting
testosterone tips, hacks oranything else top of mind?

Speaker 2 (58:26):
sure let's uh, let's go fringe again.
So this is this is more so forfertility.
But, like you know, fertilityand testosterone are tightly,
tightly joined and this isanecdotal.
But icing, icing your testicleshas been shown to increase
sperm count.
So, like, fertility isdefinitely improved.
Anecdotally, people report likelike they do it either before

(58:48):
going to sleep or like beforethe gym, and if they do it
before the gym, like they'refeeling like really, really
strong, like they got a boost.
So this is like taking you'renot, you're not just like taking
the ice cube putting it on yourballs, like in a bag, or like
not directly, just making surethe that they're, they're cool,
because you know our balls areoutside of our body for a reason
it's because they operate at amuch lower temperature.

(59:09):
So that's that's playing withthat idea of like cooling them
off so they can function a lotbetter.
And if you think about mostguys, like wearing boxers, boxer
briefs it's very tight, so thatcreates more heat.
And then, coming back to thepolyester, like if it's tight,
hot, sweaty, you're getting moreand more microplastics into
into your ball.
Not a great picture, but butyeah, that's like a fringe one

(59:31):
that.
Yeah, I've tried.
I haven't done it too long butI felt it was interesting.
But a lot of other anecdotes,that of people that really like
that.
But caveat and likeclarification it's it has been
shown to help with fertility andnot directly testosterone, but
there might be, like anecdotally, testosterone Okay.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
That actually kind of brought up something in my head
which was ice baths and sauna.
Are there anything and sauna?
Are there anything, any datathat you know of correlating to
increased testosterone or betterhormone production with those
two, and is there any detrimentsto our testosterone or hormone
production with sauna and orcold plunge?

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
yeah.
So studies of sauna and coldplunge on testosterone not very
robust growth hormone, thoughfor sauna, definitely super cool
.
And then, from like an indirectimpact, sauna is very
detoxifying.
So if you have a lot of toxins,if you detox them, you're going
to be a lot, you're going tofunction a lot better.
So indirectly, I think,definitely benefits.
Coming back to the temperaturething like with the sauna,
you're getting very hot, couldpossibly cause some issues with

(01:00:37):
testosterone production becauseyour body's getting hot, so your
balls are getting hot as well.
I wouldn't avoid sauna justbecause of that, though Some
people are extra and they go tothe sauna and they have an ice
pack on their balls.
So if you want to do that, thengo for it.
Ice baths same type of thing Ithink they're great, but in
terms of where they can be, notbeneficial is if you're just

(01:00:59):
crazy stressed, if you're overlystressed, because these two
things they're stressors,they're viewed as you stress,
which is like good stress, butif you're at like peak cortisol,
if you're just like burning thecandle at both ends sauna, cold
plunge it might push you overand make you, you know, actually
harm you.
So this is where the nuancecomes in, like everyone's

(01:01:20):
talking about cold plunges andsauna being amazing, but like we
have to check in with you whatare your stress levels like?
Can you handle it?
Is it going to push you overthe edge?
How do you feel after it?
We're all good then, like yeah,I don't see why not fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
I'm glad I got those ones in because I was actually
curious to hear your perspectiveon those.
I I sauna 40 minutes at like150 once a week, as well as a.
I'm working my way up.
I'm still kind of a chicken,but I do.
It's like 41 or 42 degrees.
I'll go in the cold plunge forlike three to five minutes,
depending on how much of a manI'm feeling that day, but it

(01:01:54):
does do that never gets easier,dude, cold plunge is just brutal
.
And the only other weird onethat I thought of is like if
you're just sunning your balls,um, yeah, the sunlight, what's
your?
Uh, what's your?

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
take on.
Yeah, I've, I've kind of beentalking shit about it just
because it's.
It's just like it's kind offringe.
It's like silly, it's anecdotalbut it is kind of backed in in
theory like the scrotum has alarge, large portion of vitamin
d receptors.
So you know, I've neverpersonally tried it, it could be
, could be cool, I could bemissing out, but I've just

(01:02:26):
haven't had the opportunity to.
I can't really speak too muchon that, but I tend to just like
poke fun at it because, like,if you really want to optimize
your testosterone, do all thisstuff that we've been talking
about and then maybe, like atthe 0.1, if you want really want
to take it to the next level,like start that yeah speaking of
weird stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Definitely one I've tried is I have a red light yeah
, I really have you heard ofjuve, the company juve?
yeah, I have one of, like the goone.
You know, when I'm dialed insometimes I'll just, you know,
once a week or a couple of daysa week sat shatted on my nuts
and you know, hopefully get sometestosterone boosting effects
from that.
But yeah, man, definitely.
It's funny to see all therandom and outlandish stuff that

(01:03:08):
people do to increase theirtestosterone while they're
getting three hours of sleep atnight and not eating like an
asshole constantly.
It's like you have way biggerrocks.
You need to move like anasshole constantly.
It's like, bro you have waybigger rocks you need to move.
So, last but not least, man, Ido have one really awesome
question for you, and that is ifyou could only teach your
clients one skill or habit thatwould have the single greatest

(01:03:31):
impact on their health andquality of life, what?

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
would it be.
That's a good one.
I want to try and not like whatimmediately comes out is sleep,
like learn how to sleep, well,um, but I also I want to take it
further and and learn how torun that.
N equals one experiment.
So not just like taking whateveryone does and use it as the
bible, but really like if you'redoing something, really being

(01:03:58):
intentional with it and tappingin and being like how is this
affecting me?
How is this affecting my energy?
Blah, blah, blah.
How is this affecting me ingeneral?
And then being able to start tomake decisions based off of
that.
So you can like eggs.
I read an article that saideggs is the best food in the
world, but when you eat eggs,you don't feel that great and
you're like caught in between oh, but it's supposed to be a

(01:04:20):
great food.
What's wrong?
Having that awareness and thatunderstanding to be like it
might not be for me and tryingother things, that's where I
would go.
So you can call that, like Idon't know, bio-individuality
regulation, if we'll give it aname.
I like that, something like that, to just yeah, like use the
feedback as a learningopportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
I think what came to my mind was just the word pay
attention.
Yeah, Pay attention right, yeah,it's just pay attention to like
the feedback that you'regetting, pay attention to the
signs and signals, like it's soamazing how our bodies are such
complex machines but oftentimesthey give us the littlest and
minute details that if youreally pay attention to it, it's

(01:05:05):
like I have this cool aura ringthat I'm always wearing.
But if I just really paidattention, like how do I feel
when I wake up?
Well, I felt like shit.
So what did I do the day before?
Oh, maybe I was on my phoneuntil 12 at night.
Okay, maybe that's what Ishould stop, you know.
So pay attention and also thisis why I love journaling or
writing down, like in themorning or at night, like how
did you feel that day, whatthings came to mind or how was

(01:05:27):
your digestion that day, likenoting down these things and
paying attention to them,finding signs and patterns is so
amazing for the body.
So that question I just askedyou is part of the Taught Not
Told podcast tradition.
That's my company's Taught NotTold, that's my brand.
It's about teaching peopleinstead of telling them what to
do.
I did an amazing job atteaching people about their

(01:05:49):
health, about their hormones,about testosterone, and I cannot
wait to share this with people.
And, last but not least, man, Iwant everyone listening to this
to go follow Mark on Instagramand I want them to please go
shoot him a message and thankhim for all this amazing
information, because I know yougot a ton of value from this.
But aside from that, mark,where can people find you?

(01:06:10):
What is the best way to reachout to you if people are
interested in learning abouthormones or wanting to get that
test?
I'll add all of this to thedescription, by the way, so you
can go tap below to find me.
But yeah, what's the best wayto?

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
connect with you man.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Best way is on Instagram.
Mark Holman Health Super simple, perfect man.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Well, mark, thank you again for your time.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday.
I thoroughly enjoyed this.
I learned so much, includingthat pomegranate tip Dude that
was phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
I'll send you the study.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Sweet dude.
Thank you so much again.
I really appreciate your timeand look forward to connecting
with you again soon man.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, of course it's awesome, Alrighty Peace.