March 27, 2024 • 37 mins
In this episode of Tea with TJ, TJ interviews Jai the Gentleman, the host of the podcast Dear Black Gay Men. They discuss the concept of healing and the different ways in which individuals can heal. They also explore the importance of uncovering and embracing all aspects of one's identity, including race, sexuality, and gender. The conversation delves into the healing process in relationships, the challenges faced by black gay men, and the need for forgiveness and acceptance.
Ultimately, they emphasize the importance of living in the present moment and letting go of past traumas. In this conversation, Jai shares his personal journey of starting the Dear Black Gay Men podcast after a breakup. He discusses the emotional stagnation he experienced and how he found inspiration to create a platform for black gay men to share their stories. The conversation also explores the importance of creating space for truth and vulnerability, as well as the evolution of Tea With TJ. Jai reflects on the lack of honest and vulnerable podcasts and shares his joy in connecting with listeners and finding beauty in the resilience of black men.
Takeaways
- Healing is a personal journey that involves confronting past traumas and embracing all aspects of one's identity.
- The healing process in relationships requires forgiveness, acceptance, and understanding that everyone is doing the best they can.
- Black gay men face unique challenges in society and need to explore and cultivate all aspects of their identity.
- Living in the present moment and letting go of past traumas is essential for personal growth and healing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
TJ (00:15):
Hey friends, it's TJ, and you're listening to Tea with TJ,
where our love for tea,conversation and
self-improvement intersect, solet's take a deeper dive into my
cup and let's have a chat.
Hey friends, it's TJ.
Welcome back to another episodeof Tea with TJ, and today I
(00:39):
have a very special guest, apodcaster that I listen to on
the regular every Wednesday,dear Black Gay Men, jay the
Gentleman.
So, jay, if you could just givea quick introduction about
yourself and give me a littleblurb about the show?
Jai (00:56):
Sure, I am Jay the Gentleman.
I have been podcasting for alittle under three years now.
We started Dear Black Gay Menbecause I got stood up for a
date and I just wanted to talkabout it and get all those
feelings off my chest.
And since then it's kind ofgrown into just a community of
(01:17):
people who are either trying todive back into dating, are
curious about other aspects ofBlack gay culture, or they're
fed up with dating in generaland want, you know, a little
word of encouragement.
So I enjoy the conversationsthat we have on dear black gay
man interesting.
TJ (01:36):
I love that.
I don't think I um knew thatand I've.
I think I started listening toyour show back in july last year
to the point that I even, like,started from episode one and
worked my way through.
Jai (01:50):
You've been on a roller coaster with me, the NTJ?
Yes, it's been a roller coaster.
TJ (01:56):
And it's.
It's interesting to now knowthat, because I think it'll
actually tie into the subjectfor today, which is more than
one way to heal, and so I'mcurious to know your thoughts on
what does that actually mean toyou specifically?
Jai (02:13):
To heal.
Or that there's more than oneway to heal.
I think that healing is when Ican only think of it in in, in
terms of, like dating and, let'ssay, somebody broke up with you
.
Healing is when you're able toconfront that person, you're
able to be in their space,you're able to be in connection
(02:37):
with them again on whateverlevel you're comfortable with
and you don't get that kind ofsinking pit in your stomach or
you have those, you the, yourevert back to old feelings,
when you, when you can let go ofwhat was and embrace what is, I
think that is when you arehealed with that in mind, what
(02:59):
would you say has been like thebiggest lesson you've learned in
this, like healing process whenit comes to dating everybody's
always doing the best they can.
Um, I think that as a culture,as black gay culture, we don't
have a lot of uh lessons put infront of us that allow us to, to
(03:22):
explore who we are on a reallydeep level.
A lot of us, a lot of us, youfigure out the gay piece and
then that's just that.
You know, we become gay andthere is so much more to each of
us than just our sexuality andthat usually is weaponized
against us to minimize the gaypiece.
(03:45):
But I think that, that, like asblack gay men, I am black, I am
gay, I'm a man those threethings exist in equal proportion
of my life.
Now, some of them show upearlier or more, but those three
things, you know, impacteverything, they're the lens
that I see everything through.
And so I feel like in ourculture we don't have a lot of
(04:10):
opportunities, or at least wedon't seek out the opportunities
to cultivate the black or thing, but we only connect on the gay
piece because we just assumethat the black and the man part
are, are taken care of.
(04:32):
And I think that, you know, inorder to, in order to for us to
be as evolved as possible, weneed to to really probe and till
the soil of all aspects of ouridentity.
TJ (04:50):
I completely agree, and that is that puts me in a headspace
of just thinking about thosethree separate identities, and I
feel like we have multipleidentities, right, we have our
personal life, our work life,our family life, if we're
talking about being Black, gayand a man, our gay life, our
(05:14):
life as a man in this world,trying to just exist in our
Black identity, and I think, inthinking about all of those
aspects of our lives and ouridentity, there is a lot of
traumatic things to know if anyof those other pieces, um, that
(05:35):
exist for you personally, like,have you gone through a healing
process for any of those?
Jai (05:53):
yeah, definitely, definitely like uh, so
vulnerable moment, tj is all.
It's a whole bunch ofvulnerable moments.
So there's that.
But when I moved, I moved fromDallas, texas, where I'm from,
to Atlanta, georgia, where Ilive now, and when I moved here
(06:15):
I me and my mother hadn't livedin the same time zone in like 15
years.
You know, I moved out when Iwas graduated from high school
and then she has her job, tookher all over across the country.
My life took me all indifferent places.
So we saw each other but wedidn't.
We didn't have a everyday kindof relationship like we do now,
(06:39):
because at the time we lived inthe same house, not just the
same time zone or city, but thesame house, and we had to learn
a lot.
And the baggage that I broughtinto that new relationship with
my mother was that I thoughtthat every trial that we went
through was because I'm gay,that you know she wanted ill
(07:04):
will for the gay pieces of me,because you know I had dealt
with so much adversity on everyother front of my life, so I
just assumed that she was likeeverybody else, when really she
didn't give two shits about thegay part, like I've been gay
ever since I was a baby, so shehad dealt with that.
(07:25):
But because all I saw was gaytrauma, all I gave her was gay
responses to everything, and Iwanted to rage against this
machine.
And what I had to realize isespecially to her person, who
has known me since moment one ofmy life and before and before
that, she was able to see me ona level that was so much more
(07:48):
dynamic than I saw myself.
She didn't deny my manlinessbecause I'm gay, or she
definitely didn't deny myblackness because I'm a man Like
.
She saw all these thingsworking together in my life and
was addressing me as such,talking to me like you, a grown
ass man, like man to fuck up,and I couldn't see it because of
(08:13):
the trauma that I assumedstemmed from my sexuality, and
so that was probably thebeginning of my healing process,
the beginning of me figuringout how to make these things
work together in my identity.
And the more close, the closerthat I got to self, the piece of
(08:36):
me that is all these things puttogether, the better our
relationship has been ever sincea similar situation and I feel
like we we probably havebackgrounds that are in
alignment.
TJ (08:53):
Um, I grew up in memphis, tennessee, yes, um, and was very
much a church kid and, like,grew up, you know, with that
whole life and also grew up in asingle parent home.
And it took me a while tofinally get to the place where I
(09:13):
was comfortable coming out,because of all of that
historical baggage, right Ofwhere I grew up in it, and it's,
(09:38):
I want to say, maybe like twoor three years passed after that
initial coming out, in thatinitial conversation, to where I
felt actually 100 percentcomfortable around my mom.
And it's crazy because, becauseI grew up with her, like
essentially by myself, wealready had like a relationship
and a connection of like youknow, it's me and you against
the world type of thing, likeeven when I moved to New York, I
(10:07):
would call her every day andlike we would have conversations
in, in that, in that headspaceof finally saying one I'm, as
you know who I actually am andand you spoke about pieces,
right, and finally accepting allof the pieces of me and not
just the ones that are visibleum, it allowed me to start the
healing process and I and I willbe 100 transparent in this
moment and say that it is stillin process.
We're not there yet, but we'regetting there.
(10:29):
Just of like the other pieces oflike being a black man in this
country and living in new yorkand being an actor, and like all
of these other pieces that umhave certain traumatic
experiences around them, um, um,I'm curious to know, in looking
at self as a whole, right, arethere any other pieces of self
(10:51):
that you've yet to speak to orare in progress of like
continuing the healing process?
Like are there any other piecesout there?
Jai (11:01):
Oh, yeah, um, um.
I think that when it pertainsto sexuality, especially for me,
that's a, that's a.
Interestingly enough, despitethe fact that I do, dear black
gay men, I the aspects of mygayness are still to be
uncovered.
And you said like you're inprocess of healing.
(11:22):
You're always I believe you'realways in process of healing,
because the second that you getto another level of healing, it
makes the previous levels feelso broken.
Yeah, like you're able toidentify the cracks in the
tapestry once you're on theother side of them, and so you
should always be healing, Ithink.
And if you ever feel likeyou've arrived at healing, then
(11:43):
you're definitely not there.
Yeah, but the aspects of my, mybeing that are still to be
uncovered are how I connect withother people that look and walk
and talk like me and walk andtalk like me, like, uh, like the
(12:09):
other day, I, um, I decide whenyou're, you know, it's like
when you're a content creator,everything is content,
everything is content that usedto be real on tiktok.
But, um, I wear the hat and,like hoodie or merch, I wear it
to the gym or you know randomplaces.
I try to treat it like it's anyother article of clothing in my
closet right.
But when I go to the gym, inthese very, very black spaces, I
(12:32):
get the funniest looks frommostly men, but some women,
because, like, sometimes it'sthe, it's, they're, they're
confused, like does it say gay?
Like does the shirt say gay onit?
Or then they'd be like, am Igay now?
Like you could just see thewheels turning and strike
(12:54):
people's heads and actually Iwas taken aback and I was scared
to wear my merch in places thatwere not like homogenous gay
spaces.
And then I was like, well, Ican't expect other people to buy
it if I can't wear it.
So let me, let me put it alltogether and figure out how to
get over whatever feelings,whatever discomfort that I'm
(13:16):
feeling.
And then I started, you know,telling the stories of the
awkward looks and whatnot on myInstagram story, so, like I
share with everybody else.
But the stuff me that like needto be discovered or are yet to
be tilled, are all, are all thecomponents that are how I, as a
(13:37):
black gay man, interact withother black gay men.
First, because I think we arethe best but but also just with
the world around me, in, infully embodying all aspects of
my, of my being, like with otherblack gay men.
It's like, how do I, how am I akinkster?
How do I, you know, engage inthe things that I like, the, the
(13:59):
the pleasure points of my life,in a way that other people
aren't going to look at me crazyor when it comes to being, you
know, around straight blackpeople.
It's figuring out a way that Ican be comfortable in myself, in
my relationships, in my, in mylove situations, if one were to
arise and and not feel as if Ihave to pander to their
(14:21):
discomfort.
So yeah, like it's just, how doI, how do I live more fully as
myself every day is kind of whatI'm uncovering in real time.
TJ (14:34):
Been lucky enough to have been in a relationship for a
very long time.
My relationship does notnecessarily look like everyone
else's relationship, and so partof this idea of healing, I
(14:55):
think, even goes a little bitdeeper to the mentality behind
how you're viewed in the world,how people view you mm-hmm, you
polyamorous and so there are alot of people you talking about
you with somebody that got, youknow, a chunk of their skull
missing.
Jai (15:13):
Okay, got it, but for us people so are you in
relationship with more than oneperson?
Is that what you?
Or are you or are you open tothat we?
TJ (15:24):
have.
I love how this is trained, Imean we.
So I have a primary partner andthen currently I have a
secondary partner, um, thatsecondary partner has been in
the picture for almost two yearsnow, um, but there's space for
(15:46):
more.
So that's the agreement that wehave, that me and my primary
partner have, um, and we'veallowed for space to get to know
other people, to love people,um, without judgment.
But getting at.
Is that, for people who looklike us, that type of
(16:07):
relationship because it's not soquote unquote common there's a
lot of judgment that comes withthat, right.
And so for me, specificallybecause of how I grew up already
dealing with being black, beinggay, living in the south
there's already all thisjudgment that is coming at me.
And so for a long time I hadthis idea that my life was
(16:30):
supposed to be, you know, linear, right, yeah, it was supposed
to look a certain way, it wassupposed to sound a certain way,
you know all of those things.
But as I've gotten older, one,I've realized that life is not
like that, life is not linearlike we like to think, that just
because of chronological age,that life can be linear.
But in reality, I feel like Ihave now probably been able to
(16:55):
connect with my child self morethan I did when I was a child.
Jai (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, that's a big deal.
TJ (17:04):
And so I say all of that to say that, like there has been,
there's been some healing.
That has had to happen becauseof the circumstance that I was
in, with the honest conversationthat me and my primary partner
had when we decided to, to makethat a thing, um, so that I was
not afraid of judgment andafraid of people's opinions or
(17:27):
thoughts or perception of me,because I had all of this kind
of like historical baggage ofhow I grew up.
Jai (17:34):
But I think that's what healing is is being able to go
back for an appropriate amountof time.
But being able to go back tothat experience, look at it
subjectively so that you don'tyou can leave the baggage of it
there, like I don't have.
(17:55):
Say that we all have childhoodtrauma.
Every single person has somekind of childhood trauma.
So I don't want to say that,but I'll say that my my biggest
baggage emotionally comes fromrelationships and I think that I
identified myself as as healedas I could be.
(18:17):
When I can go back to thosesituations whether it was he did
something to me or I didsomething to him and realize
that either of us both of uswere doing the best we could at
the time.
There is nothing that couldhave gone any differently that
would have me be here at thesame time, because had I done it
(18:42):
differently, I would not be whoI am today, and I truly believe
that everybody and everyjuncture in life is doing the
absolute best they can.
It's hard to accept thatbecause, you know, perhaps I
could have done better if I werethem, but I'm not them.
Yeah, they are doing the bestthat they could and that is what
(19:04):
has allowed me to forgive myfamily for whatever may have
come up in our, the microcosm ofour family dynamics.
It helped me forgive all of myexes, every offense.
I know for certain that in thatinstance they made the best
(19:25):
decision that was available tothem and if I just live my life
from that place then I can neverget tremendously offended by
people.
Now, people do offensive shitall the time.
Can I cuss here?
Yes, okay, people do offensiveshit all the time, but beyond
that I can't personalize it.
Aside from that's that's whatthey felt was best.
(19:47):
That was their journey yeah andone day, hopefully, they will
see the offense.
But that's not myresponsibility to have to teach
them yeah, I agree, and it is,it's truly.
TJ (19:59):
It's one of those principles that I think I've picked up
probably in the last seven,maybe 10 years, of really
focusing on being present andbeing present at the moment,
because, you're absolutely right, you cannot make it, um, uh,
from sister Taylor Taylor, uh,lauryn Hill, yes, like you can't
(20:26):
harp on the what ifs of life,right, you there, there's no way
of knowing Um, so the bestthing we can do is to really
live moment to moment and be ascompletely present as you can
possibly be, to make those sounddecisions and choices in real
time, because ultimately and Imean, I don't know how this is
(20:48):
going to go, but ultimately it'slike what even really matters
at that point, right, like ifyou are thinking about something
that happened 5, 10, 15 yearsago, but you now have this
incredible life in front of you.
Or you have a life that you'retrying to work towards having
this incredible life, you'vemissed out on everything in
front of you.
Or you have a life that you'retrying to work towards having
this incredible life.
You've missed out on everythingin front of you because you're
so focused on the past and whathappened 20 years ago with this
(21:12):
one person right, just kind ofgoing along with that idea.
Is there a moment in your life,now that you are living
presently, is there a moment inyour life that you can recall
where you kind of were existingin this past moment?
Jai (21:34):
Like like yes definitely Because.
So, like Dear Black GamingPodcast, I told you it started
because it actually startedbecause my ex-boyfriend, who I
call Joe, on the show he dumpedme and we were together for a
year plus, coming up on twoyears, and in my head he was it
(22:00):
like he was the end journey,like the course of my life.
In my head he was it Like hewas the end journey, like the
course of my life was justfiguring out how do I be the
best man for him.
And so I went out one day.
My name is Jarrett, that's whatJ stands for.
I went to Jarrett's because Iwanted to be able to say Jarrett
.
I went to Jarrett's and I boughthim a ring and as soon as I was
(22:22):
about to drop my credit card topay for this ring, I heard a
voice that says don't do thatshit.
It was loud as hell don't dothat shit.
And I'm talking to little saleslady.
Because he picked we we hadlooked at several different
kinds of rings that he liked.
His taste is very, verydifferent than mine, but you
know he picked.
(22:42):
I picked out something that wasin line, that I would be
confident to give to him, thathe would like and uh.
So when I when I heard thevoice, I told the lady.
I said can I come back onsaturday?
TJ (22:53):
this was a thursday can I come back on?
Jai (22:55):
saturday, and she was like, yeah, this happens all the time
.
I was like I don't know if ithappened the way it happened to
me, but okay, and I went homethat day.
He dumped me, and so now, atthat point, I was stuck because
our relationship was just set upto where I was the breadwinner,
(23:15):
I paid most of the bills, Imade the home that we lived in,
I paid the rent every month, andnow I feel like a foreigner in
my own home To go from, about,to ask somebody to marry me and
buy a ring and start planningall those provisions.
To now I'm sleeping in theguest bedroom of my own house.
(23:38):
It rocked me to my core.
I got stuck there, and so nowthe Virgo in me, though, is like
okay, now I got to get out ofhere before the first, because I
don't want to pay rent again,and you know I'm making all the
plans.
But emotionally I was.
You know, I just turned theemotions off as soon as he said
(23:58):
we're not together anymore.
I was like like oh, okay, and Iwent about my business, but
emotionally I was just stuntedthere.
The kind of pivotal moment thatopened it up for me was when I
did what we just talked about.
I realized that made the bestdecision that was available to
him in that moment.
(24:19):
I realized he regretted itbecause he had tried to get back
with me, but he made the bestdecision available to him in
that moment and that really iswhat inspired the podcast,
because I believe that in ourculture, black gay men see
(24:43):
difficulty and emotionaldifficulty as signs that we got
to get out Right, and a lot ofus don't have the language or
the tools to work throughconflicts, to work through
issues, to work through, youknow, barriers and and overcome.
We just don't have that andthat's really what inspired the
(25:04):
podcast, because I I wanted totalk about that and I wanted to
talk about my journey tofiguring that out for an idea
get stood up for a day that Iwas really looking forward to
and I was like this nigga I meanlet me put up this mic and and
tell people this nigga.
I changed his name, as I do witheverybody, and I was like let
me tell you about thismotherfucker.
(25:25):
He gonna stand me up, me, me, Imean me.
Interestingly enough, god blesshim standing me up Because,
dear Black KB, this is mylivelihood now.
Had he not stood me up.
Dear sir, who stood me up forthat day, who has since asked me
(25:46):
out again and stood me up again?
TJ (25:48):
just FYI.
Wow, it sounds like Dear BlackGay man has really been the way
you've healed and in the threeyears that you've had the show
yes, wow, that's amazing like westarted.
Jai (26:01):
I started with when, just you know, sitting in front of a
mic for 10 minutes, and then weadded in conversations that I
have on Thursdays on our YouTubechannel.
But, my, I really believe thatmy gift is making people feel
comfortable enough to tell thetruth and creating space for
their truth to matter in aculture that sometimes doesn't
(26:24):
say that your truth matters.
And so when I sit down and havea conversation with someone, my
, of course I know that you knowthey're doing the best that
they can, so I come with thatkind of frame of mind, but also
I'm looking for the ways inwhich their story and my story
align.
(26:44):
What is the common threadbetween them and me?
And I've tried to do that witheverybody.
Even I've talked to.
You know, I had one guest on myshow.
He was a white guy from londonwho was straight, who started
this app for people living withhiv, and I was like I don't know
nothing about this motherfucker.
And then, you know, he startedtalking and there was something
(27:07):
that I could learn from it, anda lot of time well, a lot of
times I'm I'm learning.
You know this worked for them,so let me see if it works for me
when I'm in the in confrontedwith that same situation.
But sometimes it's like thisshit obviously is not working
for them.
So don't do that, jay, likesteer clear of them and this
(27:27):
situation and all of thosethings.
And so yeah, dear Black Gay Men, sharing stories is how anybody
heals, and I think, more oftenthan not, we need to create
opportunities to share our ownstories, which is probably why
Tea with TJ is so amazing.
Thank you.
TJ (27:49):
It's crazy, because that's actually kind of how I came to
the idea of the show and that'skind of where it started with
one idea and then morphed intowhat exists now.
Um, but essentially I I used tohave moments like this in
(28:10):
person here in new york where,because I'm a tea lover and
there are a bunch of places inthe city that I go to often, um,
anytime I would like finish ajob or, like come back from tour
, I would meet up with a friendthat I hadn't seen in a while
and sit and just talk about lifeand catch up and, you know,
have all of these veryvulnerable moments, very honest
moments.
And so last July I think it was, or August, somewhere in
(28:37):
between late summer and fall, Isat down and was toying around
with some ideas and writing somethings down, and, because I
also do voiceover work, like Ialready had all the equipment
and I was like maybe I shouldtry just seeing what comes out.
Um, and originally it was meantto be just like an audio
(28:59):
journal for myself, um, just togive me the space to like
express certain things and goback and reflect.
But then it started to morphinto the actual show and then,
when I started to bring guestson at the top of this year is
really when I feel like the showhas kind of taken a life of its
(29:21):
own.
The top of this year is reallywhen I feel like the show has
kind of taken a life of its own.
Yeah, and being able to give onespace to people who have
stories to tell that need to betold.
But then also and this is justa personal preference and I do
not mean this in any kind of wayspecifically Black people,
because I feel like right now,at least for me, I don't see a
(29:41):
lot of us in the podcast space,at least not in this way Like
it's largely comedic orcelebrity driven, but it was.
It was hard for me to findshows that were honest and
truthful and vulnerable, um,that didn't have a million
dollars backing it, you know,didn't have a million dollars
(30:02):
backing it, you know, because Iain't that, not you at least,
but I completely understand.
Yeah, so I thoroughly,thoroughly, thoroughly
appreciate that and thank youfor saying that.
Of course, this was amazing.
Thank you, but before we go, Ihave three questions for you,
unrelated to the topic.
Jai (30:31):
Answer however freely you would like.
Okay, what brings you the mostjoy?
I'm gonna get all deep nowbecause okay, because I have
I've been dreaming about Ididn't call it a podcast when I
dreamt it, but I've beendreaming about I didn't call it
a podcast when I dreamt it, butI've been dreaming about doing
this for years at least, maybe15, maybe longer but I've been
(30:53):
dreaming about talking to us,about us, for since I can think
of anything that I've wanted todo and the idea that I get to do
this this is what, you know,keeps the lights on and what
pays the bills and I get toexperience us, experience Black
(31:21):
gay men, black gay people,people, people who love black
gay people more often than frombehind this mic, but I get to
hear our stories from everycorner of the world.
That brings me joy, like I get.
(31:43):
I remember the first time I gota dm from somebody who said,
thank god, I found you and I waslike, who me?
Like?
At the time I I didn't knowanything about metrics and
numbers and reach, all of that.
I just, you know, recordedsomething, shared it on my
Facebook timeline and moved onand went back to work and so um
(32:08):
to, to get a DM on Instagram,when I didn't even have my
Instagram connected to thepodcast, especially.
But the fact that this personsought to say thank you and for
every thank you that I get theydon't know what they did for me
(32:29):
the fact that you know them,spending 15 minutes with me on
Wednesdays or an hour onThursday night, however they
engage with us, has created away for me to live out my dream.
So, every DM, every share,every crazy comment, every one
(32:53):
of them, I count them all joy.
TJ (32:56):
I love that Oof.
That was beautiful.
What are you most proud of?
Jai (33:09):
Most.
That was beautiful.
What are you most proud of?
Um, most proud of my body.
When I was growing up, I waslike I was 130 pounds when I
graduated high school and I was137 when I graduated college.
So the fact that I've gone fromthere to this is what I am.
(33:30):
I mean, in addition to it's the, it's the more superficial
thing that I'm proud of, but Icelebrate it every day, and I
mean full disclosure, like it.
Had my body not changed, had Inot worked on it, I wouldn't
have leaned into nudism the wayI have, I would not have been as
comfortable in leather, I wouldnot have discovered things that
(33:54):
I'm genuinely interested in andderive pleasure from, had I not
walked myself through atransformation.
So my experience as a black gayman has been enriched by the
fact that I got thicker, and andhaving gotten thick helped me
(34:15):
understand and appreciate andrespect and honor the thickness
of other people, like when I wasskinny.
I used to like skinny boys andI didn't.
And if you had, you know, ifyou were 200 pounds, then hell
no.
But now I'm 220.
And so I can appreciate someonewho is skinny.
I can appreciate someone who'sa lot thicker than me.
(34:35):
I can appreciate the big girls,I can appreciate all different
kinds of bodies, because my bodyhas undergone a transformation.
Now it is one that I havecontrolled and contributed to,
but I've changed, my optionschanged, but also my perspective
changed.
TJ (34:54):
Final question Mm-hmm, where do you find beauty?
Jai (34:59):
in the world In the eyes of black men, Mm-hmm.
I think that there's a poemthat was on I think it was the
Image Awards one year, and oneof the lines said black is hard
to do and it is Like lesserhuman beings could not walk in
(35:25):
the shoes of Black men.
And to know everything thatBlack men could go through Like
my life has been soft comparedto a lot of the experiences that
I hear from others.
But to know all the trauma andthe abuse and the insult and the
(35:49):
offense that we can and doendure every day, Knowing that
and you can still find the light, you can still find the joy, I
think that is absolutelybeautiful jay, thank you for
(36:13):
doing this, thank you for sayingyes to this, um in, I will say
as, as a listener of your show,um, it speaks volumes to be able
to just even sit and have thisconversation with you.
TJ (36:26):
So, thank you, thank you so much and, because this
conversation is still going,we're going to do a part two.
So that is our show friends.
Stick around for part two andI'll see you next week.
And that's our show friends.
Thanks for joining us on Teawith TJ.
(36:46):
Please rate, review andsubscribe, and you can find us
on Instagram at Tea with TJpodcast.
And, as always, stay kind, keepsipping and remember we're here
, so we might as well do it.
Hey friends, it's TJ, and you're listening to Tea with TJ,
where our love for tea,conversation and
self-improvement intersect, solet's take a deeper dive into my
cup and let's have a chat.
Hey friends, it's TJ.
Welcome back to another episodeof Tea with TJ, and today I
(00:39):
have a very special guest, apodcaster that I listen to on
the regular every Wednesday,dear Black Gay Men, jay the
Gentleman.
So, jay, if you could just givea quick introduction about
yourself and give me a littleblurb about the show?
Jai (00:56):
Sure, I am Jay the Gentleman.
I have been podcasting for alittle under three years now.
We started Dear Black Gay Menbecause I got stood up for a
date and I just wanted to talkabout it and get all those
feelings off my chest.
And since then it's kind ofgrown into just a community of
(01:17):
people who are either trying todive back into dating, are
curious about other aspects ofBlack gay culture, or they're
fed up with dating in generaland want, you know, a little
word of encouragement.
So I enjoy the conversationsthat we have on dear black gay
man interesting.
TJ (01:36):
I love that.
I don't think I um knew thatand I've.
I think I started listening toyour show back in july last year
to the point that I even, like,started from episode one and
worked my way through.
Jai (01:50):
You've been on a roller coaster with me, the NTJ?
Yes, it's been a roller coaster.
TJ (01:56):
And it's.
It's interesting to now knowthat, because I think it'll
actually tie into the subjectfor today, which is more than
one way to heal, and so I'mcurious to know your thoughts on
what does that actually mean toyou specifically?
Jai (02:13):
To heal.
Or that there's more than oneway to heal.
I think that healing is when Ican only think of it in in, in
terms of, like dating and, let'ssay, somebody broke up with you
.
Healing is when you're able toconfront that person, you're
able to be in their space,you're able to be in connection
(02:37):
with them again on whateverlevel you're comfortable with
and you don't get that kind ofsinking pit in your stomach or
you have those, you the, yourevert back to old feelings,
when you, when you can let go ofwhat was and embrace what is, I
think that is when you arehealed with that in mind, what
(02:59):
would you say has been like thebiggest lesson you've learned in
this, like healing process whenit comes to dating everybody's
always doing the best they can.
Um, I think that as a culture,as black gay culture, we don't
have a lot of uh lessons put infront of us that allow us to, to
(03:22):
explore who we are on a reallydeep level.
A lot of us, a lot of us, youfigure out the gay piece and
then that's just that.
You know, we become gay andthere is so much more to each of
us than just our sexuality andthat usually is weaponized
against us to minimize the gaypiece.
(03:45):
But I think that, that, like asblack gay men, I am black, I am
gay, I'm a man those threethings exist in equal proportion
of my life.
Now, some of them show upearlier or more, but those three
things, you know, impacteverything, they're the lens
that I see everything through.
And so I feel like in ourculture we don't have a lot of
(04:10):
opportunities, or at least wedon't seek out the opportunities
to cultivate the black or thing, but we only connect on the gay
piece because we just assumethat the black and the man part
are, are taken care of.
(04:32):
And I think that, you know, inorder to, in order to for us to
be as evolved as possible, weneed to to really probe and till
the soil of all aspects of ouridentity.
TJ (04:50):
I completely agree, and that is that puts me in a headspace
of just thinking about thosethree separate identities, and I
feel like we have multipleidentities, right, we have our
personal life, our work life,our family life, if we're
talking about being Black, gayand a man, our gay life, our
(05:14):
life as a man in this world,trying to just exist in our
Black identity, and I think, inthinking about all of those
aspects of our lives and ouridentity, there is a lot of
traumatic things to know if anyof those other pieces, um, that
(05:35):
exist for you personally, like,have you gone through a healing
process for any of those?
Jai (05:53):
yeah, definitely, definitely like uh, so
vulnerable moment, tj is all.
It's a whole bunch ofvulnerable moments.
So there's that.
But when I moved, I moved fromDallas, texas, where I'm from,
to Atlanta, georgia, where Ilive now, and when I moved here
(06:15):
I me and my mother hadn't livedin the same time zone in like 15
years.
You know, I moved out when Iwas graduated from high school
and then she has her job, tookher all over across the country.
My life took me all indifferent places.
So we saw each other but wedidn't.
We didn't have a everyday kindof relationship like we do now,
(06:39):
because at the time we lived inthe same house, not just the
same time zone or city, but thesame house, and we had to learn
a lot.
And the baggage that I broughtinto that new relationship with
my mother was that I thoughtthat every trial that we went
through was because I'm gay,that you know she wanted ill
(07:04):
will for the gay pieces of me,because you know I had dealt
with so much adversity on everyother front of my life, so I
just assumed that she was likeeverybody else, when really she
didn't give two shits about thegay part, like I've been gay
ever since I was a baby, so shehad dealt with that.
(07:25):
But because all I saw was gaytrauma, all I gave her was gay
responses to everything, and Iwanted to rage against this
machine.
And what I had to realize isespecially to her person, who
has known me since moment one ofmy life and before and before
that, she was able to see me ona level that was so much more
(07:48):
dynamic than I saw myself.
She didn't deny my manlinessbecause I'm gay, or she
definitely didn't deny myblackness because I'm a man Like
.
She saw all these thingsworking together in my life and
was addressing me as such,talking to me like you, a grown
ass man, like man to fuck up,and I couldn't see it because of
(08:13):
the trauma that I assumedstemmed from my sexuality, and
so that was probably thebeginning of my healing process,
the beginning of me figuringout how to make these things
work together in my identity.
And the more close, the closerthat I got to self, the piece of
(08:36):
me that is all these things puttogether, the better our
relationship has been ever sincea similar situation and I feel
like we we probably havebackgrounds that are in
alignment.
TJ (08:53):
Um, I grew up in memphis, tennessee, yes, um, and was very
much a church kid and, like,grew up, you know, with that
whole life and also grew up in asingle parent home.
And it took me a while tofinally get to the place where I
(09:13):
was comfortable coming out,because of all of that
historical baggage, right Ofwhere I grew up in it, and it's,
(09:38):
I want to say, maybe like twoor three years passed after that
initial coming out, in thatinitial conversation, to where I
felt actually 100 percentcomfortable around my mom.
And it's crazy because, becauseI grew up with her, like
essentially by myself, wealready had like a relationship
and a connection of like youknow, it's me and you against
the world type of thing, likeeven when I moved to New York, I
(10:07):
would call her every day andlike we would have conversations
in, in that, in that headspaceof finally saying one I'm, as
you know who I actually am andand you spoke about pieces,
right, and finally accepting allof the pieces of me and not
just the ones that are visibleum, it allowed me to start the
healing process and I and I willbe 100 transparent in this
moment and say that it is stillin process.
We're not there yet, but we'regetting there.
(10:29):
Just of like the other pieces oflike being a black man in this
country and living in new yorkand being an actor, and like all
of these other pieces that umhave certain traumatic
experiences around them, um, um,I'm curious to know, in looking
at self as a whole, right, arethere any other pieces of self
(10:51):
that you've yet to speak to orare in progress of like
continuing the healing process?
Like are there any other piecesout there?
Jai (11:01):
Oh, yeah, um, um.
I think that when it pertainsto sexuality, especially for me,
that's a, that's a.
Interestingly enough, despitethe fact that I do, dear black
gay men, I the aspects of mygayness are still to be
uncovered.
And you said like you're inprocess of healing.
(11:22):
You're always I believe you'realways in process of healing,
because the second that you getto another level of healing, it
makes the previous levels feelso broken.
Yeah, like you're able toidentify the cracks in the
tapestry once you're on theother side of them, and so you
should always be healing, Ithink.
And if you ever feel likeyou've arrived at healing, then
(11:43):
you're definitely not there.
Yeah, but the aspects of my, mybeing that are still to be
uncovered are how I connect withother people that look and walk
and talk like me and walk andtalk like me, like, uh, like the
(12:09):
other day, I, um, I decide whenyou're, you know, it's like
when you're a content creator,everything is content,
everything is content that usedto be real on tiktok.
But, um, I wear the hat and,like hoodie or merch, I wear it
to the gym or you know randomplaces.
I try to treat it like it's anyother article of clothing in my
closet right.
But when I go to the gym, inthese very, very black spaces, I
(12:32):
get the funniest looks frommostly men, but some women,
because, like, sometimes it'sthe, it's, they're, they're
confused, like does it say gay?
Like does the shirt say gay onit?
Or then they'd be like, am Igay now?
Like you could just see thewheels turning and strike
(12:54):
people's heads and actually Iwas taken aback and I was scared
to wear my merch in places thatwere not like homogenous gay
spaces.
And then I was like, well, Ican't expect other people to buy
it if I can't wear it.
So let me, let me put it alltogether and figure out how to
get over whatever feelings,whatever discomfort that I'm
(13:16):
feeling.
And then I started, you know,telling the stories of the
awkward looks and whatnot on myInstagram story, so, like I
share with everybody else.
But the stuff me that like needto be discovered or are yet to
be tilled, are all, are all thecomponents that are how I, as a
(13:37):
black gay man, interact withother black gay men.
First, because I think we arethe best but but also just with
the world around me, in, infully embodying all aspects of
my, of my being, like with otherblack gay men.
It's like, how do I, how am I akinkster?
How do I, you know, engage inthe things that I like, the, the
(13:59):
the pleasure points of my life,in a way that other people
aren't going to look at me crazyor when it comes to being, you
know, around straight blackpeople.
It's figuring out a way that Ican be comfortable in myself, in
my relationships, in my, in mylove situations, if one were to
arise and and not feel as if Ihave to pander to their
(14:21):
discomfort.
So yeah, like it's just, how doI, how do I live more fully as
myself every day is kind of whatI'm uncovering in real time.
TJ (14:34):
Been lucky enough to have been in a relationship for a
very long time.
My relationship does notnecessarily look like everyone
else's relationship, and so partof this idea of healing, I
(14:55):
think, even goes a little bitdeeper to the mentality behind
how you're viewed in the world,how people view you mm-hmm, you
polyamorous and so there are alot of people you talking about
you with somebody that got, youknow, a chunk of their skull
missing.
Jai (15:13):
Okay, got it, but for us people so are you in
relationship with more than oneperson?
Is that what you?
Or are you or are you open tothat we?
TJ (15:24):
have.
I love how this is trained, Imean we.
So I have a primary partner andthen currently I have a
secondary partner, um, thatsecondary partner has been in
the picture for almost two yearsnow, um, but there's space for
(15:46):
more.
So that's the agreement that wehave, that me and my primary
partner have, um, and we'veallowed for space to get to know
other people, to love people,um, without judgment.
But getting at.
Is that, for people who looklike us, that type of
(16:07):
relationship because it's not soquote unquote common there's a
lot of judgment that comes withthat, right.
And so for me, specificallybecause of how I grew up already
dealing with being black, beinggay, living in the south
there's already all thisjudgment that is coming at me.
And so for a long time I hadthis idea that my life was
(16:30):
supposed to be, you know, linear, right, yeah, it was supposed
to look a certain way, it wassupposed to sound a certain way,
you know all of those things.
But as I've gotten older, one,I've realized that life is not
like that, life is not linearlike we like to think, that just
because of chronological age,that life can be linear.
But in reality, I feel like Ihave now probably been able to
(16:55):
connect with my child self morethan I did when I was a child.
Jai (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, that's a big deal.
TJ (17:04):
And so I say all of that to say that, like there has been,
there's been some healing.
That has had to happen becauseof the circumstance that I was
in, with the honest conversationthat me and my primary partner
had when we decided to, to makethat a thing, um, so that I was
not afraid of judgment andafraid of people's opinions or
(17:27):
thoughts or perception of me,because I had all of this kind
of like historical baggage ofhow I grew up.
Jai (17:34):
But I think that's what healing is is being able to go
back for an appropriate amountof time.
But being able to go back tothat experience, look at it
subjectively so that you don'tyou can leave the baggage of it
there, like I don't have.
(17:55):
Say that we all have childhoodtrauma.
Every single person has somekind of childhood trauma.
So I don't want to say that,but I'll say that my my biggest
baggage emotionally comes fromrelationships and I think that I
identified myself as as healedas I could be.
(18:17):
When I can go back to thosesituations whether it was he did
something to me or I didsomething to him and realize
that either of us both of uswere doing the best we could at
the time.
There is nothing that couldhave gone any differently that
would have me be here at thesame time, because had I done it
(18:42):
differently, I would not be whoI am today, and I truly believe
that everybody and everyjuncture in life is doing the
absolute best they can.
It's hard to accept thatbecause, you know, perhaps I
could have done better if I werethem, but I'm not them.
Yeah, they are doing the bestthat they could and that is what
(19:04):
has allowed me to forgive myfamily for whatever may have
come up in our, the microcosm ofour family dynamics.
It helped me forgive all of myexes, every offense.
I know for certain that in thatinstance they made the best
(19:25):
decision that was available tothem and if I just live my life
from that place then I can neverget tremendously offended by
people.
Now, people do offensive shitall the time.
Can I cuss here?
Yes, okay, people do offensiveshit all the time, but beyond
that I can't personalize it.
Aside from that's that's whatthey felt was best.
(19:47):
That was their journey yeah andone day, hopefully, they will
see the offense.
But that's not myresponsibility to have to teach
them yeah, I agree, and it is,it's truly.
TJ (19:59):
It's one of those principles that I think I've picked up
probably in the last seven,maybe 10 years, of really
focusing on being present andbeing present at the moment,
because, you're absolutely right, you cannot make it, um, uh,
from sister Taylor Taylor, uh,lauryn Hill, yes, like you can't
(20:26):
harp on the what ifs of life,right, you there, there's no way
of knowing Um, so the bestthing we can do is to really
live moment to moment and be ascompletely present as you can
possibly be, to make those sounddecisions and choices in real
time, because ultimately and Imean, I don't know how this is
(20:48):
going to go, but ultimately it'slike what even really matters
at that point, right, like ifyou are thinking about something
that happened 5, 10, 15 yearsago, but you now have this
incredible life in front of you.
Or you have a life that you'retrying to work towards having
this incredible life, you'vemissed out on everything in
front of you.
Or you have a life that you'retrying to work towards having
this incredible life.
You've missed out on everythingin front of you because you're
so focused on the past and whathappened 20 years ago with this
(21:12):
one person right, just kind ofgoing along with that idea.
Is there a moment in your life,now that you are living
presently, is there a moment inyour life that you can recall
where you kind of were existingin this past moment?
Jai (21:34):
Like like yes definitely Because.
So, like Dear Black GamingPodcast, I told you it started
because it actually startedbecause my ex-boyfriend, who I
call Joe, on the show he dumpedme and we were together for a
year plus, coming up on twoyears, and in my head he was it
(22:00):
like he was the end journey,like the course of my life.
In my head he was it Like hewas the end journey, like the
course of my life was justfiguring out how do I be the
best man for him.
And so I went out one day.
My name is Jarrett, that's whatJ stands for.
I went to Jarrett's because Iwanted to be able to say Jarrett
.
I went to Jarrett's and I boughthim a ring and as soon as I was
(22:22):
about to drop my credit card topay for this ring, I heard a
voice that says don't do thatshit.
It was loud as hell don't dothat shit.
And I'm talking to little saleslady.
Because he picked we we hadlooked at several different
kinds of rings that he liked.
His taste is very, verydifferent than mine, but you
know he picked.
(22:42):
I picked out something that wasin line, that I would be
confident to give to him, thathe would like and uh.
So when I when I heard thevoice, I told the lady.
I said can I come back onsaturday?
TJ (22:53):
this was a thursday can I come back on?
Jai (22:55):
saturday, and she was like, yeah, this happens all the time
.
I was like I don't know if ithappened the way it happened to
me, but okay, and I went homethat day.
He dumped me, and so now, atthat point, I was stuck because
our relationship was just set upto where I was the breadwinner,
(23:15):
I paid most of the bills, Imade the home that we lived in,
I paid the rent every month, andnow I feel like a foreigner in
my own home To go from, about,to ask somebody to marry me and
buy a ring and start planningall those provisions.
To now I'm sleeping in theguest bedroom of my own house.
(23:38):
It rocked me to my core.
I got stuck there, and so nowthe Virgo in me, though, is like
okay, now I got to get out ofhere before the first, because I
don't want to pay rent again,and you know I'm making all the
plans.
But emotionally I was.
You know, I just turned theemotions off as soon as he said
(23:58):
we're not together anymore.
I was like like oh, okay, and Iwent about my business, but
emotionally I was just stuntedthere.
The kind of pivotal moment thatopened it up for me was when I
did what we just talked about.
I realized that made the bestdecision that was available to
him in that moment.
(24:19):
I realized he regretted itbecause he had tried to get back
with me, but he made the bestdecision available to him in
that moment and that really iswhat inspired the podcast,
because I believe that in ourculture, black gay men see
(24:43):
difficulty and emotionaldifficulty as signs that we got
to get out Right, and a lot ofus don't have the language or
the tools to work throughconflicts, to work through
issues, to work through, youknow, barriers and and overcome.
We just don't have that andthat's really what inspired the
(25:04):
podcast, because I I wanted totalk about that and I wanted to
talk about my journey tofiguring that out for an idea
get stood up for a day that Iwas really looking forward to
and I was like this nigga I meanlet me put up this mic and and
tell people this nigga.
I changed his name, as I do witheverybody, and I was like let
me tell you about thismotherfucker.
(25:25):
He gonna stand me up, me, me, Imean me.
Interestingly enough, god blesshim standing me up Because,
dear Black KB, this is mylivelihood now.
Had he not stood me up.
Dear sir, who stood me up forthat day, who has since asked me
(25:46):
out again and stood me up again?
TJ (25:48):
just FYI.
Wow, it sounds like Dear BlackGay man has really been the way
you've healed and in the threeyears that you've had the show
yes, wow, that's amazing like westarted.
Jai (26:01):
I started with when, just you know, sitting in front of a
mic for 10 minutes, and then weadded in conversations that I
have on Thursdays on our YouTubechannel.
But, my, I really believe thatmy gift is making people feel
comfortable enough to tell thetruth and creating space for
their truth to matter in aculture that sometimes doesn't
(26:24):
say that your truth matters.
And so when I sit down and havea conversation with someone, my
, of course I know that you knowthey're doing the best that
they can, so I come with thatkind of frame of mind, but also
I'm looking for the ways inwhich their story and my story
align.
(26:44):
What is the common threadbetween them and me?
And I've tried to do that witheverybody.
Even I've talked to.
You know, I had one guest on myshow.
He was a white guy from londonwho was straight, who started
this app for people living withhiv, and I was like I don't know
nothing about this motherfucker.
And then, you know, he startedtalking and there was something
(27:07):
that I could learn from it, anda lot of time well, a lot of
times I'm I'm learning.
You know this worked for them,so let me see if it works for me
when I'm in the in confrontedwith that same situation.
But sometimes it's like thisshit obviously is not working
for them.
So don't do that, jay, likesteer clear of them and this
(27:27):
situation and all of thosethings.
And so yeah, dear Black Gay Men, sharing stories is how anybody
heals, and I think, more oftenthan not, we need to create
opportunities to share our ownstories, which is probably why
Tea with TJ is so amazing.
Thank you.
TJ (27:49):
It's crazy, because that's actually kind of how I came to
the idea of the show and that'skind of where it started with
one idea and then morphed intowhat exists now.
Um, but essentially I I used tohave moments like this in
(28:10):
person here in new york where,because I'm a tea lover and
there are a bunch of places inthe city that I go to often, um,
anytime I would like finish ajob or, like come back from tour
, I would meet up with a friendthat I hadn't seen in a while
and sit and just talk about lifeand catch up and, you know,
have all of these veryvulnerable moments, very honest
moments.
And so last July I think it was, or August, somewhere in
(28:37):
between late summer and fall, Isat down and was toying around
with some ideas and writing somethings down, and, because I
also do voiceover work, like Ialready had all the equipment
and I was like maybe I shouldtry just seeing what comes out.
Um, and originally it was meantto be just like an audio
(28:59):
journal for myself, um, just togive me the space to like
express certain things and goback and reflect.
But then it started to morphinto the actual show and then,
when I started to bring guestson at the top of this year is
really when I feel like the showhas kind of taken a life of its
(29:21):
own.
The top of this year is reallywhen I feel like the show has
kind of taken a life of its own.
Yeah, and being able to give onespace to people who have
stories to tell that need to betold.
But then also and this is justa personal preference and I do
not mean this in any kind of wayspecifically Black people,
because I feel like right now,at least for me, I don't see a
(29:41):
lot of us in the podcast space,at least not in this way Like
it's largely comedic orcelebrity driven, but it was.
It was hard for me to findshows that were honest and
truthful and vulnerable, um,that didn't have a million
dollars backing it, you know,didn't have a million dollars
(30:02):
backing it, you know, because Iain't that, not you at least,
but I completely understand.
Yeah, so I thoroughly,thoroughly, thoroughly
appreciate that and thank youfor saying that.
Of course, this was amazing.
Thank you, but before we go, Ihave three questions for you,
unrelated to the topic.
Jai (30:31):
Answer however freely you would like.
Okay, what brings you the mostjoy?
I'm gonna get all deep nowbecause okay, because I have
I've been dreaming about Ididn't call it a podcast when I
dreamt it, but I've beendreaming about I didn't call it
a podcast when I dreamt it, butI've been dreaming about doing
this for years at least, maybe15, maybe longer but I've been
(30:53):
dreaming about talking to us,about us, for since I can think
of anything that I've wanted todo and the idea that I get to do
this this is what, you know,keeps the lights on and what
pays the bills and I get toexperience us, experience Black
(31:21):
gay men, black gay people,people, people who love black
gay people more often than frombehind this mic, but I get to
hear our stories from everycorner of the world.
That brings me joy, like I get.
(31:43):
I remember the first time I gota dm from somebody who said,
thank god, I found you and I waslike, who me?
Like?
At the time I I didn't knowanything about metrics and
numbers and reach, all of that.
I just, you know, recordedsomething, shared it on my
Facebook timeline and moved onand went back to work and so um
(32:08):
to, to get a DM on Instagram,when I didn't even have my
Instagram connected to thepodcast, especially.
But the fact that this personsought to say thank you and for
every thank you that I get theydon't know what they did for me
(32:29):
the fact that you know them,spending 15 minutes with me on
Wednesdays or an hour onThursday night, however they
engage with us, has created away for me to live out my dream.
So, every DM, every share,every crazy comment, every one
(32:53):
of them, I count them all joy.
TJ (32:56):
I love that Oof.
That was beautiful.
What are you most proud of?
Jai (33:09):
Most.
That was beautiful.
What are you most proud of?
Um, most proud of my body.
When I was growing up, I waslike I was 130 pounds when I
graduated high school and I was137 when I graduated college.
So the fact that I've gone fromthere to this is what I am.
(33:30):
I mean, in addition to it's the, it's the more superficial
thing that I'm proud of, but Icelebrate it every day, and I
mean full disclosure, like it.
Had my body not changed, had Inot worked on it, I wouldn't
have leaned into nudism the wayI have, I would not have been as
comfortable in leather, I wouldnot have discovered things that
(33:54):
I'm genuinely interested in andderive pleasure from, had I not
walked myself through atransformation.
So my experience as a black gayman has been enriched by the
fact that I got thicker, and andhaving gotten thick helped me
(34:15):
understand and appreciate andrespect and honor the thickness
of other people, like when I wasskinny.
I used to like skinny boys andI didn't.
And if you had, you know, ifyou were 200 pounds, then hell
no.
But now I'm 220.
And so I can appreciate someonewho is skinny.
I can appreciate someone who'sa lot thicker than me.
(34:35):
I can appreciate the big girls,I can appreciate all different
kinds of bodies, because my bodyhas undergone a transformation.
Now it is one that I havecontrolled and contributed to,
but I've changed, my optionschanged, but also my perspective
changed.
TJ (34:54):
Final question Mm-hmm, where do you find beauty?
Jai (34:59):
in the world In the eyes of black men, Mm-hmm.
I think that there's a poemthat was on I think it was the
Image Awards one year, and oneof the lines said black is hard
to do and it is Like lesserhuman beings could not walk in
(35:25):
the shoes of Black men.
And to know everything thatBlack men could go through Like
my life has been soft comparedto a lot of the experiences that
I hear from others.
But to know all the trauma andthe abuse and the insult and the
(35:49):
offense that we can and doendure every day, Knowing that
and you can still find the light, you can still find the joy, I
think that is absolutelybeautiful jay, thank you for
(36:13):
doing this, thank you for sayingyes to this, um in, I will say
as, as a listener of your show,um, it speaks volumes to be able
to just even sit and have thisconversation with you.
TJ (36:26):
So, thank you, thank you so much and, because this
conversation is still going,we're going to do a part two.
So that is our show friends.
Stick around for part two andI'll see you next week.
And that's our show friends.
Thanks for joining us on Teawith TJ.
(36:46):
Please rate, review andsubscribe, and you can find us
on Instagram at Tea with TJpodcast.
And, as always, stay kind, keepsipping and remember we're here
, so we might as well do it.
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