October 23, 2024 • 49 mins
What truly defines your self-worth, and how does it intertwine with confidence? Together with our insightful guest, Lonnie, we unpack these intricate concepts, sharing a transformative gem from his therapist that changed his perspective. While achievements might boost our confidence, self-worth is rooted in loving ourselves just as we are. Listen as we discuss how this understanding influences our ability to form deep, authentic relationships and the hurdles personal history and independence can present in building trust.
Ever wondered about the complexities of polyamory and open relationships, especially through the lens of someone from a marginalized community? Lonnie brings his personal experience to the table, shedding light on the unique challenges and misunderstandings faced by polyamorous individuals. We delve into the emotional rollercoaster of dating in such a framework, the significance of self-love amidst rejection, and why having the right words to express emotions is crucial for personal growth and understanding.
We also explore the fascinating dynamics of non-monogamous relationships, inspired by public figures like Shan Boodram. From public misconceptions to maintaining multiple partnerships, we emphasize the role of communication and consent. Lonnie shares his vision for an ideal polyamorous relationship where autonomy meets connection. Join us for an eye-opening conversation that highlights the joys, challenges, and freedoms of polyamory, providing insights for those curious about or practicing this relationship style.
Join us in conversation on socials:
Youtube
Instagram
Tik Tok
Twitter
Substack
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
TJ (00:15):
Hey friends, it's TJ, and you're listening to Tea with TJ,
where our love for tea,conversation and
self-improvement intersect.
So let's take a deeper diveinto my cup and let's have a
chat.
Hey friends, it's TJ.
Welcome back to another episodeof TJ.
(00:37):
And because Lana's episode wasso amazing, we had to split this
up into two episodes.
So if you haven't watched partone, go back and watch part one
or listen to part one.
Um, you were in part two oflani's episode and we were
talking about relationships.
So I just lani, this has justbeen.
You drop in so many gems.
(00:58):
Like the last little bit thatwe ended with in the last
episode was your confidence isnot equal to your self-worth.
Like I don't know where thatcame from for you, but like that
, just it set all in my soul.
Can you just share with thefolks?
If they've missed part one,just give me another recap of
(01:20):
what that is.
Lonnie (01:21):
Sure, sure.
So I can't take full credit.
For me, it came from atherapist that I'm no longer
with, I'm very sad about.
So, basically, during thepandemic, I started going to
this therapist and you know Iwas telling her what I wanted to
work on.
You know how they ask you anintake, and I guess I don't
remember exactly what I said.
I think I told I think I wasreally trying to work on this
idea of realizing that I wasdesiring being in a relationship
(01:45):
again, because I had been in arelationship during the pandemic
and it allowed me to slow downand I've always been a super
confident person, just ascontext, and so I go into this
and as we wrap up, she's likeyou know, we're going to work on
your self-worth.
Throughout this process and Iwas like taken aback, like wait,
I'm super confident, like Ihave a master's degree and you
know I'm living in New York cityby myself and I have all these
(02:07):
cool accomplishments and things,and I feel like I know who I am
.
And, um, she was like you know,um, yes, you know who you are,
you are confident, but yourself-worth is not necessarily
attached to your confidence,because if your confidence is
not grounded in self-worth.
They're separate.
(02:28):
And through that journey Ilearned that, oh, I have to
learn to love myself and requireothers to love me, simply
because of who I am, not becauseof what I can produce.
And it's a little.
It can be a little confusing,because part of who you are is
what you've done and you knowyour accomplishments, and it
makes up a whole person.
(02:49):
But when we start talking aboutrelationships and our
relationship to ourselves,that's when I learned like, oh,
I actually have been confidentbecause I've had a lot of
external accomplishments I'vemoved from my hometown, I was
the first to go to college, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada,
good things.
But these things don'tnecessarily equate to me loving
(03:13):
the person that I am.
And are you able to be inrelationship with someone?
This is something I had tolearn after I went through it
and it's still a challenge forme.
It was like, are you able to bein relationship with someone
and just sit there and donothing and say nothing and be
yourself and feel like youdeserve love?
(03:33):
And subconsciously I didn't knowthat, I didn't feel that, not
that I was filling up everylittle blank with a person,
every quiet moment with noise,but I do think that there was
this part of me that felt likepeople like me because of all of
this, whether it's my height ormy style it wasn't so much
about they like you because ofwho you are.
(03:56):
So that led to me being thetype of person who always, sort
of like, showed up at a highlevel.
You never saw me down, younever saw me upset, you never
saw me, and that was that's veryunhealthy for a person, because
all of us have moments.
So I wasn't showing up.
I was, in a lot of ways, Iwouldn't say I was performing,
(04:19):
but I was leaning more heavilyonto accomplishments versus hey,
if you're like, I just deserveto be loved because I'm me and
it's my birthright, and thenthere's all the other stuff that
comes with it.
So, yeah, that's that's kind ofyou know the lesson.
TJ (04:38):
Sweet Lord.
Um, I am curious to know fromyou, cause I've had experiences
like this of my own but wheredoes trust fall for you when you
are and I don't even want torestrict this to romantic
relationships, because I thinkthere's a certain level of trust
that has to exist inprofessional relationships,
(05:00):
community relationships,creative relationships when does
trust fall for you when itcomes to engaging with people?
Lonnie (05:09):
Wow, Wow, you really tapped in somehow, because trust
is something that comes up alot in relationships for me, not
so much in the sense of likehow some people like don't trust
and they all look throughphones or things like that, not
like that.
But it's very hard, tj, tobreak through the layers to get
(05:30):
into an intimate relationshipwith me.
I'm just going to be real aboutthat.
It's something that I won't sayI denied for years, but it's
something that's come up enoughfor me to say it's true.
So trust shows up in the sensethat, even going back to the
example in the first episodeabout that coworker, that
special relationship with thatBlack coworker that I didn't
trust it not because ofsomething they did, but just my
(05:53):
experiences don't really allow.
I had to be super independentat a super young age.
So, growing up with a singlemom, I had to work and stuff
like that.
Like I was really safe andtaken care of, but I had to grow
up and I was the only child.
So I think that leads to a lotof trust in myself.
And so when it comes torelationships, because I have so
(06:22):
much trust in myself and I'm soin tune with who I am, it's
very difficult to let someone in.
So it's very hard for me totrust new situations and
people's intentions.
I think that's where trust, toyour point, shows up, whether
it's professional, personal orromantic.
I'm really untrusting ofpeople's intentions which I
can't control, which I'mcontinuously working on that.
But I can't stand the idea ofsomeone having bad intentions or
(06:48):
trying to hurt me, which Ithink most of us, most of us
feel that way and I have beenhurt, you know, by people that I
trusted, of course, so thatadds to it.
So I would say that's wheretrust shows up.
But this is another gag thatmight gag you and gag me too.
Not that I takeself-responsibility for
everything, but I do thinkself-responsibility is important
.
Tabitha Brown actually said thisrandom about cooking Cause she
(07:11):
was saying she has a book calledcooking from the soul and it
doesn't have measurements.
And she said if you needmeasurements, you don't trust
yourself in the kitchen.
And I think in the same waywith trust, as much as we try to
put it on the other person, Idon't trust you because I don't
know your intentions.
The question is, do you trustyourself?
Right?
So I have to trust that if I'mforming a relationship with TJ
(07:33):
that either my sense of myindicators and discernment are
going to go off and say this isa person not worthy trusting or
something, so that lack of trustactually comes from a lack of
trust of self.
So I had to learn to I'mlearning to apply the trust I
have in myself to allow me to bemore vulnerable when it comes
(07:53):
to opening up to new experiences.
But it's a journey.
I'm not I'm not perfect at itat all.
TJ (07:59):
I get it.
I'm still working through itevery single day of my life and
I think, even dear god, um, evenin one.
I want to acknowledge that thisshow has been a space for me to
be vulnerable with other peopleand somehow, um the the
intention behind it was not tohave vulnerable moments with
(08:21):
people.
That was not what I wanted todo necessarily, like.
I very much wanted to just havemoments with people.
That was not what I wanted todo necessarily Like.
I very much wanted to just haveconversations with people that
were interesting and things thatfelt similar to the types of
conversations that I have withfriends in New York city at my
favorite tea shop.
But what I've realized in doingthis now for three seasons, um,
(08:42):
two of which with guests, isthat, for for most people, um,
entering into this space with meand having a moment of
vulnerability has has oneconnect, like forged a deeper
connection between the two of us.
Um, most of them generally havebeen friends or someone that
I've like connected with andlike wanted to continue to
(09:05):
pursue that connection with them.
Um, but in each of thosemoments they've cracked open
these like kind of like lifeinsights, right, uh, and I've
learned a lot from the peoplethat have shared moments with me
and then I've shared stuff withthem, and even in this moment,
hearing you speak, I'm like shit, yeah, that that trust is so
(09:29):
much more about self than it isthe other person and the
(09:58):
discernment of like the be doneor wanted to be done, and so I
had to do it myself.
Right, even with being in arelationship and I think now the
place that I sit is similar toyou of I'm more concerned about.
I'm less concerned about thelie or like the the.
I don't trust you per se andI'm more concerned about what is
(10:23):
your actual intention with me,or this relationship or whatever
connection that we're having.
Right, because I'm tryingreally hard to be intentional
with everyone that I encounter.
Right, so I've it's funnybecause I had this conversation
with someone that I was talkingto a few weeks ago and it it
shaped our relationship, but Iwas, I told them, I was like you
(10:47):
know, I'm trying to be veryintentional with you,
specifically because we've nevermet before.
Right, I'm very interested inyou, I want to know more about
you.
There's something here that Ican sense that, like the moment
we met, I felt a spark.
Right.
And even in that of them, likeacknowledging that they were
(11:10):
still very closed, and I triedto express I'm like, hey, I'm
trying really hard to be openwith people and like forge
connections and get to knowpeople, like you don't have to
pretend with me, I don't carewhat, whatever version of you
that can show up, that's theversion I want.
I don't have to pretend with me,I don't care what whatever
version of you that can show up,that's the version I want.
I don't want this, thispresentational version of you.
(11:30):
I want the actual version ofyou, because that is what's
going to ultimately shape myopinion of you and shape
whatever relationship forms fromthis moment.
And unfortunately they were too.
I'm not trying to spillanybody's tea, but they
unfortunately it's called thetea with TJ, let's get it.
(11:57):
And we had to part ways, whichwas unfortunate because I found
them very interesting and, um, Icould see the love and care
that existed there and I just Iwanted them to to just actually
show up for themselves, not forme, but yeah, you.
Lonnie (12:14):
I mean this is this is related to what you said, but
also something that came up asyou were talking, that you, just
you, just you just uncoveredthinking about relationships.
A lot of it has to do with ourdesires and what we want to
happen, like even going back tothe, to the example of speaking
(12:34):
to a stranger and not want.
Your desire is to connect, notbe rejected.
For you, I like this person.
My desire is I hope this works,not that it doesn't the person,
the friend I had that I saidhey, I like you romantically.
My desire is for it to go well,whatever that looks like.
And I think that us, especiallyas men but I mean, I don't want
(12:54):
to overgeneralize, but I'm justspeaking about queer men that's
the only queer Black man, womenof color who I date I think
that that's where a lot of ourprocessing and healing gets
paused.
Is that we don't focus on whatour desire was gets paused is
that we don't focus on what ourdesire was because it's easier
(13:14):
to react to the behavior or theresult of it and ignore your
desire.
And this is a whole notherthought that I have about black
men and desire, and I think partof that is because we aren't.
We often aren't axed what ourdesires are in the world.
We don't have time for thatbecause we're too busy trying to
save the world and be masculineand do all these things.
I don't think we really have,typically, historically, had
(13:38):
enough space and time to saywhat do I desire.
Because when I, when I talkedabout violence and rejection
with men in the first episodethat's where that comes from is
that the only way a man can beman can be, there's men who have
unalived women or men becausethey didn't want to take their
phone number.
So that is a disconnection withwhat they desired versus what
(14:02):
the behavior was.
So instead of sitting withyourself and saying, wow, this
was a really beautiful womanwalking down the street and I
came up to her in a way that Ithought was appropriate and she
didn't want to talk to me,instead of sitting with the
disappointment of that loss orfocusing on yourself, you
externally react to this person,and so I'm proud of you for
(14:25):
even what you said with thatlast situation, being able to
say I'm disappointed because Ireally like this person.
I thought it could go here andI think we've gotten to a place
with dating, and I know wehaven't really specifically
talked about dating strictly yet, but I think we've gotten to a
place with dating where we're sodesensitized to even admitting
(14:45):
that we want something, that wewant it to work, that we were
disappointed.
Everyone wants to be so strongand I've played a role in this
too, so I'm not taking myselfout of that where we're just
like whatever there's.
There's so many people out inthe world Like that person
didn't like me, whatever.
Yeah, two things can be true,though.
Now I've learned that like, yes, there are other people and I'm
(15:13):
not going to sell my soul to tosomebody to make them like me.
But I can also say this didn'twork out and I can also hold at
the same, at the same weight, ifnot more.
That was really fuckingdisappointing.
I'm tired of dating and Ithought I found the one.
I thought or not found the one,because I don't really believe
in that, but you get my point.
You know, when you get intothat groove with somebody,
you're like, wait a minute, thismight work out.
Yeah, and I actually had asituation like that last year
where I had gone on a few dateswith this guy and again, not to
(15:37):
spill the beans.
But hey, it's not really apersonal thing, but we went on
these dates and this person waspolyamorous, so they had a
partner.
So I was know, I was excited,tj, because you know I have
identified as Polly more than Ipracticed it.
So it's very difficult for me tocome into contact with Polly
Black men, especially so theyhad this relationship.
(15:59):
They were open, we went ondates, they were traveling, we
went on like two dates.
It wasn't even a lot.
I was really starting to growfond of this person.
I'm like yo, like we have somecommunication issues, but
whatever, like when we gottogether it was cool.
I felt like he like kind ofchecked off a lot of things and
so we had had this date, whichwas probably maybe our third
(16:20):
date, and he had came over and Imade dinner and I like got
flowers and like I did the wholething.
Which again, I hate when peoplelike say they regret doing
things.
If you, if you can't regretsomething that you did from your
heart, genuinely, so if yougave somebody flowers and then
they that same day said theydon't want to talk to you
anymore, you gave them flowersout of your heart, hopefully,
and not just because you wantedthem to be there.
(16:42):
That's a whole nother self-worththing that we can talk about
later.
But anyway, after that day hejust told me like he doesn't
feel a romantic slash, sexualspark for me and I was really
disappointed.
I was like what?
Like there was no sign.
You know, I've also been takinga lot more slow sexually in
terms of like, how soon?
(17:02):
So like, sometimes that, Ithink, shows up for people as
like you're not interested,which is a whole nother story
about attraction and desire forpeople.
But that was hard because Ithought it was going well.
There's nothing like thinkingsomething's going well and
there's no sign that somebody'sjust like oh, I'm not interested
, you're like what, whathappened?
(17:25):
So that can be, it can be rough, but when you have to your
point, a sense of self,self-care, you know there's
nothing wrong with you justbecause something didn't work
out.
And I think a lot of peoplefeel like that something's wrong
with them when somethingdoesn't work out and it leads to
, you know, a trickle effect ordomino effect of them, you know
(17:46):
not dealing with the core issue,which is self-love.
TJ (17:49):
Yeah, I think that's a that's.
That's a problem that existsamongst all of us of not really
figuring out or feeling likethere is something wrong with us
when we face rejection in allfacets of life when in reality
it usually has nothing to dowith you.
I'm curious if you're OK totouch on it.
(18:12):
We've not talked about thepolyness of all of this in.
This is part two.
Lonnie (18:17):
So let's get into the polyness.
TJ (18:20):
Yes, so what has been your?
What has been your experienceas a polyamorous person?
Lonnie (18:27):
You know what it's been hard, TJ, I'm not going to lie
to you.
I would say it's easy in thesense that I always like to say
life gets easier and harder whenyou can put words to something
that you feel internally.
And I'll go back to my exampleabout teaching youth about
attraction, right.
Imagine how much easier a lotof Black gay men especially like
(18:51):
gay children, right, or curiouswhatever, like yourself,
growing up in the South, youknow, or wherever, if you just
if they just had words for theirinternal feelings.
And that just goes beyondattraction.
Think about violence.
Think about I'm jealous, that'swhy I'm bullying people.
Think about violence.
(19:39):
Think about I'm jealous, that'swhy I'm bullying people.
Naming how you feel is reallyimportant for all humans.
So I'd say, on one hand, it'sbeen really easy to be Polly or
identify as P.
In my experience in ourcommunity, there's either two
kind of perspectives towards it.
I think there is a community ofpoly, queer folks, but they
aren't necessarily always peopleof color, this underground
world, because of the socialresponse to it being typically
negative, or there is thisnegative response, or so there's
three.
And then lately I've beenfeeling like, especially online,
(20:02):
that people almost speak aboutopen relationships and poly,
like it's's very common and likeeverybody's open.
When I opened my app and I'mjust like that's not really true
Not that I can say thatsomeone's personal experience
isn't true for them, but I thinkit's the the idea of when you
(20:25):
don't want something, it feelslike there's a lot of it and I'm
like I can tell you as a polyperson there's not a lot of it,
Right, or at least it doesn'tcome my way.
But I think it's like thisexample I heard years ago if you
are a size medium and your bestfriend is a size 2X and you go
to the mall or they go to themall and they come back to you
and they say, like yo, like Inever see a 2X in the store,
that's so frustrating.
(20:46):
And you say I see two X's allthe time.
There's this thing and it'slike this whole psychological
thing.
It's like a real thing whereyou think you see a lot of two
X's because it's not your size,You're a medium.
So you saw one two X and you'relike they're everywhere.
It's like no, they're not.
The person that's two X istelling you that they're not.
That's how I feel about poly.
It's like people I'm like, I'mtelling you that's not my
(21:17):
experience.
But so, yeah, it's been hardbecause I feel like and this is
I don't think this is acontroversial take, but I'll
just say it A lot of I'd saygenerally, men of color tend to
hold onto heteronormative valueswhen it pertains to romantic
relationships and that equatesto monogamy, and so, while there
are gay men who are out theirvalue system, going back to
(21:40):
values again, I've learned notto judge values but to also note
which ones are important to me.
I can't be with somebody thattheir top column of value in
relationships is monogamy, Evenif we're in a monogamous
relationship.
People don't understand thatbecause I can still do monogamy.
People get confused.
It's like being bi, Like peopleact like bi.
People can't date one gender ata time.
(22:00):
It's really weird.
Like I'm like.
It doesn't mean that theyalways need both genders.
It's same for me.
I could be in a monogamousrelationship, but I can't be in
a monogamous relationship withsomeone who values monogamy so
high as a construct that it'sthat important to them because
it's not important to me.
So that's been my experience.
It's been hard.
I've had little glimmers ofhope in terms of like, meeting
(22:22):
poly people, meeting open peoplewho, people who are not poly
but open to having a polypartner.
But it's been through and farin between and I'm really open
about it and forthcoming aboutit, which I think to some in
some ways I guess works not tomy detriment because I value
authenticity, but because I talkabout it so much, it's on my
profiles when I'm on dating appsand stuff like that.
(22:44):
I'm very clear about it becauseI've been in situations where
people say they're open to itand then when it really gets
down to it I don't know ifyou've experienced this they're
not really open to it, they'rejust like you.
TJ (22:57):
Sweet Lord.
You know I've had a fewexperiences.
So my partner and I my primarypartner, which is and I had a
discussion with Jay, thegentleman from Dear Black Gay
Men, where this conversationkind of got birth and I've
stopped using the primarypartner language because the
(23:19):
perception of that is like, wellthen, how does the other person
feel if they are also yourpartner, but being called a
secondary and I'm like it's justthe language that was picked up
when this came to be, it's polylanguage, yeah.
Lonnie (23:31):
Yeah.
TJ (23:32):
But when?
So my partner and I have beentogether since 2007.
And around I think it was like2014 is when we discovered the
whole idea of poly and engagedwith someone else who we had
been friends with, who we bothhad a mutual attraction to and
(23:54):
decided to like, engage in that,and it really opened up a whole
world of things because, forthe first time in our
relationship as adults, we bothwere like, oh, we can still have
just as much love for eachother and like or love someone
else, and that doesn't discreditthe relationship that we have,
because this whole societalthing of, like, this
(24:15):
heteronormative situationbetween two two gave in means
that, like, monogamy is the onlyway to have a relationship.
When I'm like, that's not true,um, because realistically, we
already do it in our everydaylife with everybody else, like
your best friends, your, youknow, creative and professional
relationships that exist.
(24:35):
Those are all relationshipsoutside of your monogamous
relationship, right?
So why can't we have, why can'tboth things be true, right?
Why can't I be just as in lovewith you as I am with the person
that we met two weeks ago orfour months ago or a year ago or
whatever?
But then also, we have theability and capacity to love
(24:58):
someone together.
Right, it's been interestingbecause I agree with you.
There are people who say thatthey are interested in it and
want to explore it and are finewith you know, whatever, but the
moment things happen, or startto happen, their egos get in the
(25:19):
way and there is a list ofthings that are now
non-negotiable.
Right, I've encountered a lotof digital people in the world,
like people on the apps and likeother dating apps that will
approach me and have not read asingle line in the bio or a
(25:43):
single line on the profile.
And the moment I bring it upbecause I also similar to you,
I'm always very upfront about it, because I don't want to
mislead anybody I want to verymuch say hey, I'm in a, I'm in a
relationship.
These are the rules, this iswhat we have set in place, just
so you're aware.
If you want to continue toengage, great.
If not, that's also OK, becauseI'm like I'm not necessarily
(26:06):
searching for something else,especially, especially on the
apps.
I feel like that's what theperception is is that you're out
here searching for somethingelse or trying to replace or,
you know, trying to maneuver ornavigate something and like be
sneaking on.
I'm like, no, actually I'm not.
Uh, I'm like he has a profileand he's sitting next to me
(26:29):
right now like, yeah, probablyhe has the necking each other on
the grid, um.
But it's interesting because Iagree with that whole um concept
of the the 2x versus medium.
Like people seem to only seewhat they don't have or want,
and it's until what is actuallyin front of them, and then all
(26:50):
of a sudden it's like, oh well,actually, no, I'm good, that's
it.
Lonnie (26:56):
Yeah, it's been a, it's been a mess yeah, and I think
for me, and I think you know andagain this is me using myself
as an example of what even my,my theory about the 2x and the
medium is that being singleversus being in a relationship
as poly, I I perceive that it'sharder for a single person
(27:16):
because I'm solo, poly, I'msingle, and I feel like the
people who are open to polytheir first connection to it
usually is a couple that's open.
So for some reason, I feel likepeople can understand it if
you're in a relationship andit's like okay, you're in,
you're open, like you eitherhave a visceral reaction to it
but they get it.
But like when I me being single, it's like people have told me
(27:41):
like I don't even know you yetand I got to think about like
getting in a you know, gettingin a relationship with you and
then thinking about addingsomebody else.
So that has been hard for me.
But, like I said, for me, mywhole experience with probably
putting a word to what I wasfeeling and this is so funny
going back to, like, high school.
Maybe I remember the whole Willand Jada stuff.
This was way before.
What is his name, the, thesituationship or whatever the
(28:05):
entanglement.
This is the happen recently.
Remember that used to always berumors about them being swingers
and I remember when that wholegossip was going around, it
never felt like something thatwas wrong to me.
I always was, like, what arey'all so up in arms about?
Like, if they're consensually Ididn't have the language yet,
but I it never felt like oh or,and that just always stuck with
(28:25):
me.
I didn't know about Polly orwhat it meant, but I'm like,
well, if they're married andthey just happen to go to these
swinger parties and have fun,like whose business is that and
why does it matter?
And that's where I think thespark started for me.
And then I found this sexologist, shout out to Shan Boodram.
I don't know if you follow her.
Shan Boodram is this like youngsexologist and she and her
(28:47):
partner, who's now her husband.
She had an episode of herYouTube channel where she talked
about how they were polybecause her ex-boyfriend had hit
her up to like meet with her,to like just have a conversation
.
And she brought it up to herpartner and they just basically
realized that like, hey, like welet's talk about everything,
you know, if we want to go meetwith somebody or do something or
(29:08):
go on a date and they justbecame poly.
And I started looking into itand I'm like this really
resonates.
But yeah, I agree with you,it's been.
It's that's a heartbreaking one,I'll tell you.
When you tell somebody I knowyou probably go and do this too
you tell somebody that you'repoly and then they accept it and
you're like, ooh great, likelet's go.
And then, as you start gettinginto the reality especially you
(29:31):
having a partner I know it'sdifferent for you because you
you have someone else you haveto consider.
I don't so like this, like, oh,your time being split or
whatever that may look like thenthey're like, oh, maybe I don't
want to do this, and that'seven that's been the more
hurtful situations, cause I'mlike well, I told you and you
know you said you were cool andlike why are you not?
TJ (29:48):
cool.
Now I will say it's veryinteresting for the type of
relationship that we have nowcompared to when we first
started this, because there arepeople that I've dated and have
engaged with that like, yes,have been a part of like the
three of us, but also completelyseparate, um, and they've had
(30:12):
no interaction with them Likeone of one of the things that I
try to think about when I'mengaging with people is that if
I'm choosing to spend some timewith you, I'm choosing to spend
time with you, like the outsideworld does not exist unless you
want it to exist.
But if we're, if we're on a date, if we're having dinner, if
(30:33):
we're grabbing drinks orwhatever, that time is our time,
and I think it's hard forpeople to grasp that concept in
the back of their mind, stillknowing that there is someone
still attached to me, right, oneof the first someone that, like
I've, we started dating andhave become more friends now, um
(30:55):
, but one of our firstencounters I was like you know,
if you have no interest in likegetting to know him, that
doesn't have to be a part ofthis equation and for about
three weeks, anytime, we weretogether like no phone calls, no
texts, none of that.
Like we hung out a bunch andthey had never seen him and they
(31:15):
finally were like wait, isthere someone?
Like is there actually someoneelse?
I was like, yeah, like if youwant to meet him, you can, but,
like my goal is to is to giveyou.
My intent behind all of this isto give you the time and
attention, because this ishappening between the two of us,
like, again, if you wantsomething else to happen, that
can happen.
But, like I'm all about, youknow, face-to-face time with
(31:36):
with the individual that I'mtalking to.
Lonnie (31:38):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
That's.
That's the kind of relationshipI want, my and I'll ask you
I'll give you my perfectscenario relationships, you know
situation and I'm interested tohear, if you're open to it, um,
what your boundaries and rulesare with your partner, because I
feel like that's veryinteresting and I think
something that hopefully peoplecan take away from this is that
(31:59):
poly relationships are notmonolithic, just like monogamous
ones.
Or there's monogamousrelationships where a guy or a
person can go hang out withtheir boys and there's and go on
vacation with their friends,and there's some where where
where they don't.
But I feel like when it comesto poly, they try to put us all
in one box, like, oh, we're justsluts, we just like to have sex
with a bunch of differentpeople, and there's no rules,
everything goes, and we're justlike not satisfied and we're
(32:25):
always searching for somethingelse, which is not actually true
.
But for me, my ideal situationis that I would have two
partners.
I don't want a primary partner.
To your point, I'm, I'm, Iconsider myself solo poly and,
for those listening, solo polymeans that I consider myself as
my primary partner.
So I don't really want anyhierarchy, like I don't want to
(32:45):
live with the person or whatever.
But I want to have twoboyfriends.
To your point.
That's separate.
They know about each other,they, they, you know, they.
They know that I'm Polly andit's all open.
But like I don't necessarily, Idon't need them to engage, I
don't necessarily want to be ina throuple if I'm creating it.
Interestingly enough, I feellike I could be in a throuple if
(33:07):
I was invited into one.
But I don't necessarily, Idon't think I would build one,
I'm just going to say thatthrouples vacations are a lot
cheaper, but yes, listen, bills,bills, the way this economy is
set up, divided by three, comeon now.
So that's sort of my goal when Italk to people.
That's what I tell people.
(33:27):
You know, that's that's theideal for me.
I think I'm interesting thatyou brought the thing up about
anchor partner, cause I do thinkthat, like for some reason in
your poly journey, I thinkeveryone's relationship to
anchor partners changes.
Mine has changed a bit.
At first I was like, no, Idon't want to anchor partner.
As you just heard, my idealsituation is not to have one.
But I had a conversation withsomeone that I was dating once
(33:50):
that shifted a little bitbecause they said because
sometimes again, I can admit Ican be a little because I'm so
independent and like I was anonly child, I often don't always
think about the other person.
I know that sounds bad, butlisten, I'm here to be honest.
I don't always think about whatsomeone else needs to be happy.
Now, of course, if what theyneed goes beyond my boundaries,
(34:11):
I can't do it, but sometimesit's hard for me to compromise.
I'm just going to be honest andwith this person, what I found
out from this relationship wasthat, oh, you needed something
that I don't necessarily need ashighly as you need it, and some
people just need the,especially in a poly situation.
They need that like title, thatit gives them a sense of safety
(34:33):
that it doesn't give me.
But over the past year or twoI've sat with myself and said,
if my partner needs to be theanchor partner, I think I'm open
to having that conversation now, because if they're able to
express that, hey, I know thisis not like as big of a deal to
you, but as for me to feelgrounded in this, it would make
(34:58):
me satisfied, or it would.
It would do something for me,for me to be the primary partner
, and I'm like, oh I, now I cansee that you know more than I
could before and I'm open to itInteresting.
TJ (35:09):
Yeah, I I find myself to be, especially in now, in like the
last like seven or so years.
I'm a very nomadic person and Idon't necessarily need like a
home base per se.
Uh, even in like livingsituation, I think, just with
being a performer and likeconstantly going on tour and all
(35:30):
that stuff, I'm okay to liveout of a suitcase, I'm okay to
like pack my shit up and leavein two days if I have to.
So there's less of that that Ithink exists in our relationship
currently, whereas in thebeginning, because we met when
we were so young, that was ahuge thing to be and I think
(35:51):
that goes back to thisheteronormative way of being
that we were all taught thatlike this is how life is
supposed to look.
But as we both gotten older andkind of like further developed
our own careers and our lives,we've both come to this
realization that come home tosomeone.
(36:19):
But also, I think, because we'vebeen together so long and
because of where ourrelationship is now I'm sorry, I
did not mean for that to happenum, because of where our
relationship lives now that'snot as um, that's not as a,
that's not much of a core valuefor us anymore, um, as a
collective yeah, it's funny youbrought up boundaries, because
(36:41):
that was going to be my nextquestion to you.
At this present moment, thereare very few boundaries left for
us, and I don't mean that in anegative way.
I think we are just becausewe've been together for so long.
Because we've been together forso long, there are certain
(37:08):
things that don't affect us that, I think, would affect younger
couples or younger, youngerthrouples or, you know, polycues
or whatever.
Lonnie (37:11):
Yeah, probably to the binary, to the binaries.
So is it more like if you allmeet someone, it's every.
Every new person is like moreof a K, a new, not a case study,
but it's like I'll talk to themand engage and see where this
is going.
And then, or is there like arule, like hey, cause this is
what I'm super curious about Isthere a rule around when you
start talking to someone, causeI find that interesting, so
(37:40):
talking to someone because Ifind that interesting.
So I've met some poly peoplewho say my partner has to let me
know, like hey, I met this guynamed lani on the train today
and I thought he was cute.
Whatever we went, we might chat, and some are like I don't have
to tell my partner until itbecomes something.
We're about to have sex or,excuse me, go on a date.
Like, what are your rulesaround?
TJ (37:50):
like the new person it's funny because it's different for
both of us.
So for me, okay, I more so wantto know if you're engaging
sexually with someone else.
Uh, for him it's all aboutemotions.
Uh, he very much is like ifthis is getting serious to the
point where you want to invitethem over, let me know.
(38:10):
Or if this is someone that,like, you're going to be
spending lots of time with, letme know.
Um, so that's interestingbecause I feel like usually
people are very much like I wantto know everything from the
beginning.
You know, tell me all thedetails, I don't want to be left
out.
Um, whereas for us it's noteven, it's not even about that.
And I think, because we both,we are in in our polyness with,
(38:35):
especially with engaging withpeople separately, that looks
completely different for theboth of us, yeah, whereas some
things with him are more sointimacy via a friendship.
Mine is connection with people,like, yeah, what's what's unique
(38:58):
about you, what's like coolabout you that, like, no one
else has?
Right, like what, what can wesit and talk for hours about?
What can we go out and do todaywhen it's raining in new york
city, like those are the typesof things that I'm like oh, I do
want to experience this withthis person.
Um, there was a moment in timewhere I was like dating an
artist and we went to museums.
(39:20):
I was like that's cool.
I've never been with someonewho's like a visual artist, um,
so like stuff like that.
Like our, our poly expressionis completely different.
Um, and it's also differentwhen we're dating someone
together, like that's a wholedifferent.
Lonnie (39:36):
You know, yeah, um, so, so it sounds like it's pretty.
I hate to use the term openbecause it's so overly used, but
it sounds like it's pretty openin the sense that you guys, you
sometimes play together, youplay separately or, if it gets
serious, you even have you datedthe same person before as well.
(39:56):
Absolutely.
TJ (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, the first person we dated together was the
reason we became poly.
Ah, I love that.
It was intimate at first andthen it turned into a
relationship, and that's how wediscovered that we were
polyamorous.
Lonnie (40:13):
Y'all were both like listen, wait a minute, let's
listen.
That's how you know it was fire, that session was fire.
Y'all looked over like hmm, Ilove that, I love that.
TJ (40:26):
And then the second one was more recently.
Uh, we're friends now.
We're not like togethertogether, but we were a throuple
for about a year gotcha.
Lonnie (40:35):
That's cool, that's super cool.
It's interesting that youmentioned the emotional versus
sexual, because I think evenlike, uh, monogamous people talk
about that.
When it comes to cheating, likeI feel like people and that's
when I hear it most formonogamous folks is like they
talk about, like yo, I don'tcare if my girl cheats, as long
as it's just sex.
Like go ahead and just comeback home to me.
And there's other people whoare like actually, if you are
(40:58):
texting and lovey-dovey withsomebody, that's worse than
being sexual, and so it's veryinteresting that you brought
that up because I think that isvery interesting for me.
I'm more of a sapiosexual, sointellect is super important to
me.
So that's another layer to whybeing poly is different for me,
because I've been with peoplewho have been like if you just
wanted to have sex with otherpeople, I could probably be more
open to it.
(41:18):
But I actually want two realemotional relationships, like I
want to be boyfriends, because Ikind of need that for the
sexual part.
Like not not always, butideally I want to be engaging,
like that.
I want to have less casualencounters and more depth and,
um, I could even see myself Ithought about this before having
one partner that I wasn't evensexual with.
(41:39):
Like that, it was justemotional and maybe they were a
side or maybe they wereabstinent, or maybe they had
another partner where they hadsex.
I think I want more of the mindand I I always say I'm being
real boner, I'm in this bone, Ithink, because I'm about to turn
40.
I feel like I'm just likesaying you know how they say
older people, not that 40 is soold, but still I'm growing.
You know how they say likeolder people just say whatever
(42:01):
and I don't care.
I feel like I'm getting thereand, um, I feel like my toxic
trait is that I want to fucksomeone's mind, which is like I
think you know some people justwant to use like physical things
.
I think, like I want somebody tobe in love with me.
Like are you crazy?
Like it's me, like, why wouldyou want to be in love with me?
Think that can have a deeperconnection sometimes than just
(42:25):
casual sex.
But like I'm, like no, you needto like me, you need to know
that I'm a cool ass person andlike be into me.
And so, to your point, I seemyself in my future relationship
because I can only dream andwrite it down.
Um, is that I?
I would want to.
I'm kind of like you.
I don't think I would need toknow that you met somebody, but
(42:45):
I just want to.
I want the relationship to notfeel like you have to hide it.
If you want to tell me like,like that's really the most
important thing to me Like youdon't, I don't think it would be
a hard boundary.
Like, oh, my goodness, you metsome guy and you didn't tell me,
I don't care Like, but ifyou're going to start dating
them or, like you said, being,you know, being around them more
(43:05):
, let me know my vision for myrelationship, whether it's
monogamous or not, tj, is thatwe have open communication where
you want to.
You know, I always think aboutit like this.
I used to be like reallygrossed out by the idea when
people used to say, like, mypartner is my best friend but
now I get it, now that.
I'm older, I'm like I get it,cause when I think about my best
friend, I get it.
(43:30):
Now that I'm older, I'm like Iget it Because when I think
about my best friend, I can'twait to tell him everything,
because we're going to laughabout it, we're going to have a
story about it.
I'm going to say I met this guyat the gym and that's what
happened.
Or there was a really cute boythat was the maintenance man,
and we laugh about that.
I want to come home, or I don'treally want to come home
because I'm like I'm with you,like I've just I just met this
guy and he was cute, and likeyou want to see the picture or
(43:51):
whatever the thing is between us.
I just want that to be a thing,cause I've lived a life where I
couldn't do that Um, and itdoesn't feel good to have these
like interactions or feelingsand you can't tell your partner
and I don't think that hasanything to do with poly, and I
think a lot of monogamous peoplewill learn a lot from that Like
just being open to what yourpartner really is going through
(44:12):
and experiencing, versus theimage of them.
TJ (44:19):
That's a whole nother.
Lonnie (44:20):
I'm trying to split this up to a million parts, but
absolutely it's good to hear youbreak down and thank you for
being open about that Cause.
I feel like we don't hear theintricacies of people practicing
Pali and like what that couldlook like and the freedom in it
and the and the challenges in it, but also you know that there
(44:40):
is a way for you to create whatyou want to create and that's.
That's really what's the mostimportant thing in my opinion,
absolutely.
TJ (44:48):
And I hope that, um, I hope this has been helpful for folks
who listen or watch that arepoly or considering being
polyamorous, um, who don'tnecessarily feel representative,
uh, represented um, you know,in the in the social spaces like
social media or YouTube, or,you know, on podcast platforms.
Um, I hope that this has beenlike, helpful and informative
(45:13):
and, you know, giving you a peekinto folks who look like you um
, because that has been mynumber two goal on TVTJ to give
voice to um creators and peoplewho look like us, absolutely.
So, thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you.
Thank you, lonnie, for doingthis.
I'm baffled, I'm likegobsmacked.
(45:39):
You know we were able to dothis in two parts.
Lonnie (45:44):
We did that.
TJ (45:45):
So before we get into our last three, where can the folks
find you?
Lonnie (45:52):
Absolutely so.
You can find me on all socialmedia platforms at my name, just
Lonnie Woods the third.
So spell it out T H, e, t H I RD on Instagram and on Tik TOK.
I do a lot of thrifting andself-styling content on there,
so having fun over there onTikTok and also my podcast, what
I Did Wrong you can find.
Just search that wherever youfind your podcast and your music
(46:16):
.
And yeah, feel free to reachout on me on any of those
platforms.
And I am single, not that thisis a pitch, but, as I said, here
I am, there you go.
Pitch, but as I said, here I am, there you go.
This isn't a pitch, but winkwink, hit me up.
TJ (46:30):
Slide in my DMs.
You never know who's going tosee it.
You miss all the shots.
You don't take y'all.
So for our final three, we'dlove to just give a negative
knowledge to the audience.
How do you practice gratitude?
Lonnie (46:55):
to the audience.
How do you practice gratitude?
Wow, that's a great question.
How do I practice gratitude?
I think that gratitude for meshows up when I accomplish
something that I once wished for.
You know how sometimes they say, whether you're religious or
not, people say like you'reliving the life you once prayed
for.
I don't necessarily believe init like that because I'm not
religious, but when I dosomething that I manifested or I
(47:16):
thought about a long time agoand it's like, wow, that just
happened, I think that's wheregratitude shows up for me.
So I practice it by honoringthe moment that I manifest
through, you know, believing inmyself or believing in an idea.
TJ (47:32):
I love that.
Where do you find love?
Lonnie (47:39):
I find love.
This sounds cliche, but withinmyself, within this idea that I
deserve love, I think is asource of love in and of itself,
and I think that that kind ofgoes into what we talked about
today is that we do experiencelove from others, from ourselves
.
But love also is something thatexists outside of all of us.
(48:01):
It's something that just existsso you can grab and take a
piece from it and exist in it.
So I think the biggest sourceof love is just me, and how I
show up and treat others, Ithink is really a big expression
of that.
TJ (48:14):
I love that.
And then final question when doyou find beauty in the world?
Lonnie (48:21):
Oh, I find beauty in leaning into the things that I
like that society says Ishouldn't like, because the
question isn't if I like it,it's am I afraid that someone
else will judge me for liking it?
(48:42):
And that is where I find thestrength to lean into that,
because it's like no, youactually like that.
You just are afraid of whatsomeone else might say about you
liking it or the judgment thatmay come from it.
TJ (48:56):
That was perfect, that was beautiful.
Lonnie (48:59):
Thank you.
TJ (49:00):
Oh, my gosh Again.
Thank you, thank you, thank youfor doing this.
This has been amazing.
I couldn't have asked for abetter guest Happy to be here.
And with that, friends, I willsee you next week and that's our
show.
Friends, thanks for joining uson Tea with TJ.
(49:20):
Please rate, review andsubscribe, and you can find us
on Instagram at Tea with TJPodcast.
And, as always, stay kind, keepsipping and remember we're here
, so you might as well do it.
Hey friends, it's TJ, and you're listening to Tea with TJ,
where our love for tea,conversation and
self-improvement intersect.
So let's take a deeper diveinto my cup and let's have a
chat.
Hey friends, it's TJ.
Welcome back to another episodeof TJ.
(00:37):
And because Lana's episode wasso amazing, we had to split this
up into two episodes.
So if you haven't watched partone, go back and watch part one
or listen to part one.
Um, you were in part two oflani's episode and we were
talking about relationships.
So I just lani, this has justbeen.
You drop in so many gems.
(00:58):
Like the last little bit thatwe ended with in the last
episode was your confidence isnot equal to your self-worth.
Like I don't know where thatcame from for you, but like that
, just it set all in my soul.
Can you just share with thefolks?
If they've missed part one,just give me another recap of
(01:20):
what that is.
Lonnie (01:21):
Sure, sure.
So I can't take full credit.
For me, it came from atherapist that I'm no longer
with, I'm very sad about.
So, basically, during thepandemic, I started going to
this therapist and you know Iwas telling her what I wanted to
work on.
You know how they ask you anintake, and I guess I don't
remember exactly what I said.
I think I told I think I wasreally trying to work on this
idea of realizing that I wasdesiring being in a relationship
(01:45):
again, because I had been in arelationship during the pandemic
and it allowed me to slow downand I've always been a super
confident person, just ascontext, and so I go into this
and as we wrap up, she's likeyou know, we're going to work on
your self-worth.
Throughout this process and Iwas like taken aback, like wait,
I'm super confident, like Ihave a master's degree and you
know I'm living in New York cityby myself and I have all these
(02:07):
cool accomplishments and things,and I feel like I know who I am
.
And, um, she was like you know,um, yes, you know who you are,
you are confident, but yourself-worth is not necessarily
attached to your confidence,because if your confidence is
not grounded in self-worth.
They're separate.
(02:28):
And through that journey Ilearned that, oh, I have to
learn to love myself and requireothers to love me, simply
because of who I am, not becauseof what I can produce.
And it's a little.
It can be a little confusing,because part of who you are is
what you've done and you knowyour accomplishments, and it
makes up a whole person.
(02:49):
But when we start talking aboutrelationships and our
relationship to ourselves,that's when I learned like, oh,
I actually have been confidentbecause I've had a lot of
external accomplishments I'vemoved from my hometown, I was
the first to go to college, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada,
good things.
But these things don'tnecessarily equate to me loving
(03:13):
the person that I am.
And are you able to be inrelationship with someone?
This is something I had tolearn after I went through it
and it's still a challenge forme.
It was like, are you able to bein relationship with someone
and just sit there and donothing and say nothing and be
yourself and feel like youdeserve love?
(03:33):
And subconsciously I didn't knowthat, I didn't feel that, not
that I was filling up everylittle blank with a person,
every quiet moment with noise,but I do think that there was
this part of me that felt likepeople like me because of all of
this, whether it's my height ormy style it wasn't so much
about they like you because ofwho you are.
(03:56):
So that led to me being thetype of person who always, sort
of like, showed up at a highlevel.
You never saw me down, younever saw me upset, you never
saw me, and that was that's veryunhealthy for a person, because
all of us have moments.
So I wasn't showing up.
I was, in a lot of ways, Iwouldn't say I was performing,
(04:19):
but I was leaning more heavilyonto accomplishments versus hey,
if you're like, I just deserveto be loved because I'm me and
it's my birthright, and thenthere's all the other stuff that
comes with it.
So, yeah, that's that's kind ofyou know the lesson.
TJ (04:38):
Sweet Lord.
Um, I am curious to know fromyou, cause I've had experiences
like this of my own but wheredoes trust fall for you when you
are and I don't even want torestrict this to romantic
relationships, because I thinkthere's a certain level of trust
that has to exist inprofessional relationships,
(05:00):
community relationships,creative relationships when does
trust fall for you when itcomes to engaging with people?
Lonnie (05:09):
Wow, Wow, you really tapped in somehow, because trust
is something that comes up alot in relationships for me, not
so much in the sense of likehow some people like don't trust
and they all look throughphones or things like that, not
like that.
But it's very hard, tj, tobreak through the layers to get
(05:30):
into an intimate relationshipwith me.
I'm just going to be real aboutthat.
It's something that I won't sayI denied for years, but it's
something that's come up enoughfor me to say it's true.
So trust shows up in the sensethat, even going back to the
example in the first episodeabout that coworker, that
special relationship with thatBlack coworker that I didn't
trust it not because ofsomething they did, but just my
(05:53):
experiences don't really allow.
I had to be super independentat a super young age.
So, growing up with a singlemom, I had to work and stuff
like that.
Like I was really safe andtaken care of, but I had to grow
up and I was the only child.
So I think that leads to a lotof trust in myself.
And so when it comes torelationships, because I have so
(06:22):
much trust in myself and I'm soin tune with who I am, it's
very difficult to let someone in.
So it's very hard for me totrust new situations and
people's intentions.
I think that's where trust, toyour point, shows up, whether
it's professional, personal orromantic.
I'm really untrusting ofpeople's intentions which I
can't control, which I'mcontinuously working on that.
But I can't stand the idea ofsomeone having bad intentions or
(06:48):
trying to hurt me, which Ithink most of us, most of us
feel that way and I have beenhurt, you know, by people that I
trusted, of course, so thatadds to it.
So I would say that's wheretrust shows up.
But this is another gag thatmight gag you and gag me too.
Not that I takeself-responsibility for
everything, but I do thinkself-responsibility is important
.
Tabitha Brown actually said thisrandom about cooking Cause she
(07:11):
was saying she has a book calledcooking from the soul and it
doesn't have measurements.
And she said if you needmeasurements, you don't trust
yourself in the kitchen.
And I think in the same waywith trust, as much as we try to
put it on the other person, Idon't trust you because I don't
know your intentions.
The question is, do you trustyourself?
Right?
So I have to trust that if I'mforming a relationship with TJ
(07:33):
that either my sense of myindicators and discernment are
going to go off and say this isa person not worthy trusting or
something, so that lack of trustactually comes from a lack of
trust of self.
So I had to learn to I'mlearning to apply the trust I
have in myself to allow me to bemore vulnerable when it comes
(07:53):
to opening up to new experiences.
But it's a journey.
I'm not I'm not perfect at itat all.
TJ (07:59):
I get it.
I'm still working through itevery single day of my life and
I think, even dear god, um, evenin one.
I want to acknowledge that thisshow has been a space for me to
be vulnerable with other peopleand somehow, um the the
intention behind it was not tohave vulnerable moments with
(08:21):
people.
That was not what I wanted todo necessarily, like.
I very much wanted to just havemoments with people.
That was not what I wanted todo necessarily Like.
I very much wanted to just haveconversations with people that
were interesting and things thatfelt similar to the types of
conversations that I have withfriends in New York city at my
favorite tea shop.
But what I've realized in doingthis now for three seasons, um,
(08:42):
two of which with guests, isthat, for for most people, um,
entering into this space with meand having a moment of
vulnerability has has oneconnect, like forged a deeper
connection between the two of us.
Um, most of them generally havebeen friends or someone that
I've like connected with andlike wanted to continue to
(09:05):
pursue that connection with them.
Um, but in each of thosemoments they've cracked open
these like kind of like lifeinsights, right, uh, and I've
learned a lot from the peoplethat have shared moments with me
and then I've shared stuff withthem, and even in this moment,
hearing you speak, I'm like shit, yeah, that that trust is so
(09:29):
much more about self than it isthe other person and the
(09:58):
discernment of like the be doneor wanted to be done, and so I
had to do it myself.
Right, even with being in arelationship and I think now the
place that I sit is similar toyou of I'm more concerned about.
I'm less concerned about thelie or like the the.
I don't trust you per se andI'm more concerned about what is
(10:23):
your actual intention with me,or this relationship or whatever
connection that we're having.
Right, because I'm tryingreally hard to be intentional
with everyone that I encounter.
Right, so I've it's funnybecause I had this conversation
with someone that I was talkingto a few weeks ago and it it
shaped our relationship, but Iwas, I told them, I was like you
(10:47):
know, I'm trying to be veryintentional with you,
specifically because we've nevermet before.
Right, I'm very interested inyou, I want to know more about
you.
There's something here that Ican sense that, like the moment
we met, I felt a spark.
Right.
And even in that of them, likeacknowledging that they were
(11:10):
still very closed, and I triedto express I'm like, hey, I'm
trying really hard to be openwith people and like forge
connections and get to knowpeople, like you don't have to
pretend with me, I don't carewhat, whatever version of you
that can show up, that's theversion I want.
I don't have to pretend with me,I don't care what whatever
version of you that can show up,that's the version I want.
I don't want this, thispresentational version of you.
(11:30):
I want the actual version ofyou, because that is what's
going to ultimately shape myopinion of you and shape
whatever relationship forms fromthis moment.
And unfortunately they were too.
I'm not trying to spillanybody's tea, but they
unfortunately it's called thetea with TJ, let's get it.
(11:57):
And we had to part ways, whichwas unfortunate because I found
them very interesting and, um, Icould see the love and care
that existed there and I just Iwanted them to to just actually
show up for themselves, not forme, but yeah, you.
Lonnie (12:14):
I mean this is this is related to what you said, but
also something that came up asyou were talking, that you, just
you, just you just uncoveredthinking about relationships.
A lot of it has to do with ourdesires and what we want to
happen, like even going back tothe, to the example of speaking
(12:34):
to a stranger and not want.
Your desire is to connect, notbe rejected.
For you, I like this person.
My desire is I hope this works,not that it doesn't the person,
the friend I had that I saidhey, I like you romantically.
My desire is for it to go well,whatever that looks like.
And I think that us, especiallyas men but I mean, I don't want
(12:54):
to overgeneralize, but I'm justspeaking about queer men that's
the only queer Black man, womenof color who I date I think
that that's where a lot of ourprocessing and healing gets
paused.
Is that we don't focus on whatour desire was gets paused is
that we don't focus on what ourdesire was because it's easier
(13:14):
to react to the behavior or theresult of it and ignore your
desire.
And this is a whole notherthought that I have about black
men and desire, and I think partof that is because we aren't.
We often aren't axed what ourdesires are in the world.
We don't have time for thatbecause we're too busy trying to
save the world and be masculineand do all these things.
I don't think we really have,typically, historically, had
(13:38):
enough space and time to saywhat do I desire.
Because when I, when I talkedabout violence and rejection
with men in the first episodethat's where that comes from is
that the only way a man can beman can be, there's men who have
unalived women or men becausethey didn't want to take their
phone number.
So that is a disconnection withwhat they desired versus what
(14:02):
the behavior was.
So instead of sitting withyourself and saying, wow, this
was a really beautiful womanwalking down the street and I
came up to her in a way that Ithought was appropriate and she
didn't want to talk to me,instead of sitting with the
disappointment of that loss orfocusing on yourself, you
externally react to this person,and so I'm proud of you for
(14:25):
even what you said with thatlast situation, being able to
say I'm disappointed because Ireally like this person.
I thought it could go here andI think we've gotten to a place
with dating, and I know wehaven't really specifically
talked about dating strictly yet, but I think we've gotten to a
place with dating where we're sodesensitized to even admitting
(14:45):
that we want something, that wewant it to work, that we were
disappointed.
Everyone wants to be so strongand I've played a role in this
too, so I'm not taking myselfout of that where we're just
like whatever there's.
There's so many people out inthe world Like that person
didn't like me, whatever.
Yeah, two things can be true,though.
Now I've learned that like, yes, there are other people and I'm
(15:13):
not going to sell my soul to tosomebody to make them like me.
But I can also say this didn'twork out and I can also hold at
the same, at the same weight, ifnot more.
That was really fuckingdisappointing.
I'm tired of dating and Ithought I found the one.
I thought or not found the one,because I don't really believe
in that, but you get my point.
You know, when you get intothat groove with somebody,
you're like, wait a minute, thismight work out.
Yeah, and I actually had asituation like that last year
where I had gone on a few dateswith this guy and again, not to
(15:37):
spill the beans.
But hey, it's not really apersonal thing, but we went on
these dates and this person waspolyamorous, so they had a
partner.
So I was know, I was excited,tj, because you know I have
identified as Polly more than Ipracticed it.
So it's very difficult for me tocome into contact with Polly
Black men, especially so theyhad this relationship.
(15:59):
They were open, we went ondates, they were traveling, we
went on like two dates.
It wasn't even a lot.
I was really starting to growfond of this person.
I'm like yo, like we have somecommunication issues, but
whatever, like when we gottogether it was cool.
I felt like he like kind ofchecked off a lot of things and
so we had had this date, whichwas probably maybe our third
(16:20):
date, and he had came over and Imade dinner and I like got
flowers and like I did the wholething.
Which again, I hate when peoplelike say they regret doing
things.
If you, if you can't regretsomething that you did from your
heart, genuinely, so if yougave somebody flowers and then
they that same day said theydon't want to talk to you
anymore, you gave them flowersout of your heart, hopefully,
and not just because you wantedthem to be there.
(16:42):
That's a whole nother self-worththing that we can talk about
later.
But anyway, after that day hejust told me like he doesn't
feel a romantic slash, sexualspark for me and I was really
disappointed.
I was like what?
Like there was no sign.
You know, I've also been takinga lot more slow sexually in
terms of like, how soon?
(17:02):
So like, sometimes that, Ithink, shows up for people as
like you're not interested,which is a whole nother story
about attraction and desire forpeople.
But that was hard because Ithought it was going well.
There's nothing like thinkingsomething's going well and
there's no sign that somebody'sjust like oh, I'm not interested
, you're like what, whathappened?
(17:25):
So that can be, it can be rough, but when you have to your
point, a sense of self,self-care, you know there's
nothing wrong with you justbecause something didn't work
out.
And I think a lot of peoplefeel like that something's wrong
with them when somethingdoesn't work out and it leads to
, you know, a trickle effect ordomino effect of them, you know
(17:46):
not dealing with the core issue,which is self-love.
TJ (17:49):
Yeah, I think that's a that's.
That's a problem that existsamongst all of us of not really
figuring out or feeling likethere is something wrong with us
when we face rejection in allfacets of life when in reality
it usually has nothing to dowith you.
I'm curious if you're OK totouch on it.
(18:12):
We've not talked about thepolyness of all of this in.
This is part two.
Lonnie (18:17):
So let's get into the polyness.
TJ (18:20):
Yes, so what has been your?
What has been your experienceas a polyamorous person?
Lonnie (18:27):
You know what it's been hard, TJ, I'm not going to lie
to you.
I would say it's easy in thesense that I always like to say
life gets easier and harder whenyou can put words to something
that you feel internally.
And I'll go back to my exampleabout teaching youth about
attraction, right.
Imagine how much easier a lotof Black gay men especially like
(18:51):
gay children, right, or curiouswhatever, like yourself,
growing up in the South, youknow, or wherever, if you just
if they just had words for theirinternal feelings.
And that just goes beyondattraction.
Think about violence.
Think about I'm jealous, that'swhy I'm bullying people.
Think about violence.
(19:39):
Think about I'm jealous, that'swhy I'm bullying people.
Naming how you feel is reallyimportant for all humans.
So I'd say, on one hand, it'sbeen really easy to be Polly or
identify as P.
In my experience in ourcommunity, there's either two
kind of perspectives towards it.
I think there is a community ofpoly, queer folks, but they
aren't necessarily always peopleof color, this underground
world, because of the socialresponse to it being typically
negative, or there is thisnegative response, or so there's
three.
And then lately I've beenfeeling like, especially online,
(20:02):
that people almost speak aboutopen relationships and poly,
like it's's very common and likeeverybody's open.
When I opened my app and I'mjust like that's not really true
Not that I can say thatsomeone's personal experience
isn't true for them, but I thinkit's the the idea of when you
(20:25):
don't want something, it feelslike there's a lot of it and I'm
like I can tell you as a polyperson there's not a lot of it,
Right, or at least it doesn'tcome my way.
But I think it's like thisexample I heard years ago if you
are a size medium and your bestfriend is a size 2X and you go
to the mall or they go to themall and they come back to you
and they say, like yo, like Inever see a 2X in the store,
that's so frustrating.
(20:46):
And you say I see two X's allthe time.
There's this thing and it'slike this whole psychological
thing.
It's like a real thing whereyou think you see a lot of two
X's because it's not your size,You're a medium.
So you saw one two X and you'relike they're everywhere.
It's like no, they're not.
The person that's two X istelling you that they're not.
That's how I feel about poly.
It's like people I'm like, I'mtelling you that's not my
(21:17):
experience.
But so, yeah, it's been hardbecause I feel like and this is
I don't think this is acontroversial take, but I'll
just say it A lot of I'd saygenerally, men of color tend to
hold onto heteronormative valueswhen it pertains to romantic
relationships and that equatesto monogamy, and so, while there
are gay men who are out theirvalue system, going back to
(21:40):
values again, I've learned notto judge values but to also note
which ones are important to me.
I can't be with somebody thattheir top column of value in
relationships is monogamy, Evenif we're in a monogamous
relationship.
People don't understand thatbecause I can still do monogamy.
People get confused.
It's like being bi, Like peopleact like bi.
People can't date one gender ata time.
(22:00):
It's really weird.
Like I'm like.
It doesn't mean that theyalways need both genders.
It's same for me.
I could be in a monogamousrelationship, but I can't be in
a monogamous relationship withsomeone who values monogamy so
high as a construct that it'sthat important to them because
it's not important to me.
So that's been my experience.
It's been hard.
I've had little glimmers ofhope in terms of like, meeting
(22:22):
poly people, meeting open peoplewho, people who are not poly
but open to having a polypartner.
But it's been through and farin between and I'm really open
about it and forthcoming aboutit, which I think to some in
some ways I guess works not tomy detriment because I value
authenticity, but because I talkabout it so much, it's on my
profiles when I'm on dating appsand stuff like that.
(22:44):
I'm very clear about it becauseI've been in situations where
people say they're open to itand then when it really gets
down to it I don't know ifyou've experienced this they're
not really open to it, they'rejust like you.
TJ (22:57):
Sweet Lord.
You know I've had a fewexperiences.
So my partner and I my primarypartner, which is and I had a
discussion with Jay, thegentleman from Dear Black Gay
Men, where this conversationkind of got birth and I've
stopped using the primarypartner language because the
(23:19):
perception of that is like, wellthen, how does the other person
feel if they are also yourpartner, but being called a
secondary and I'm like it's justthe language that was picked up
when this came to be, it's polylanguage, yeah.
Lonnie (23:31):
Yeah.
TJ (23:32):
But when?
So my partner and I have beentogether since 2007.
And around I think it was like2014 is when we discovered the
whole idea of poly and engagedwith someone else who we had
been friends with, who we bothhad a mutual attraction to and
(23:54):
decided to like, engage in that,and it really opened up a whole
world of things because, forthe first time in our
relationship as adults, we bothwere like, oh, we can still have
just as much love for eachother and like or love someone
else, and that doesn't discreditthe relationship that we have,
because this whole societalthing of, like, this
(24:15):
heteronormative situationbetween two two gave in means
that, like, monogamy is the onlyway to have a relationship.
When I'm like, that's not true,um, because realistically, we
already do it in our everydaylife with everybody else, like
your best friends, your, youknow, creative and professional
relationships that exist.
(24:35):
Those are all relationshipsoutside of your monogamous
relationship, right?
So why can't we have, why can'tboth things be true, right?
Why can't I be just as in lovewith you as I am with the person
that we met two weeks ago orfour months ago or a year ago or
whatever?
But then also, we have theability and capacity to love
(24:58):
someone together.
Right, it's been interestingbecause I agree with you.
There are people who say thatthey are interested in it and
want to explore it and are finewith you know, whatever, but the
moment things happen, or startto happen, their egos get in the
(25:19):
way and there is a list ofthings that are now
non-negotiable.
Right, I've encountered a lotof digital people in the world,
like people on the apps and likeother dating apps that will
approach me and have not read asingle line in the bio or a
(25:43):
single line on the profile.
And the moment I bring it upbecause I also similar to you,
I'm always very upfront about it, because I don't want to
mislead anybody I want to verymuch say hey, I'm in a, I'm in a
relationship.
These are the rules, this iswhat we have set in place, just
so you're aware.
If you want to continue toengage, great.
If not, that's also OK, becauseI'm like I'm not necessarily
(26:06):
searching for something else,especially, especially on the
apps.
I feel like that's what theperception is is that you're out
here searching for somethingelse or trying to replace or,
you know, trying to maneuver ornavigate something and like be
sneaking on.
I'm like, no, actually I'm not.
Uh, I'm like he has a profileand he's sitting next to me
(26:29):
right now like, yeah, probablyhe has the necking each other on
the grid, um.
But it's interesting because Iagree with that whole um concept
of the the 2x versus medium.
Like people seem to only seewhat they don't have or want,
and it's until what is actuallyin front of them, and then all
(26:50):
of a sudden it's like, oh well,actually, no, I'm good, that's
it.
Lonnie (26:56):
Yeah, it's been a, it's been a mess yeah, and I think
for me, and I think you know andagain this is me using myself
as an example of what even my,my theory about the 2x and the
medium is that being singleversus being in a relationship
as poly, I I perceive that it'sharder for a single person
(27:16):
because I'm solo, poly, I'msingle, and I feel like the
people who are open to polytheir first connection to it
usually is a couple that's open.
So for some reason, I feel likepeople can understand it if
you're in a relationship andit's like okay, you're in,
you're open, like you eitherhave a visceral reaction to it
but they get it.
But like when I me being single, it's like people have told me
(27:41):
like I don't even know you yetand I got to think about like
getting in a you know, gettingin a relationship with you and
then thinking about addingsomebody else.
So that has been hard for me.
But, like I said, for me, mywhole experience with probably
putting a word to what I wasfeeling and this is so funny
going back to, like, high school.
Maybe I remember the whole Willand Jada stuff.
This was way before.
What is his name, the, thesituationship or whatever the
(28:05):
entanglement.
This is the happen recently.
Remember that used to always berumors about them being swingers
and I remember when that wholegossip was going around, it
never felt like something thatwas wrong to me.
I always was, like, what arey'all so up in arms about?
Like, if they're consensually Ididn't have the language yet,
but I it never felt like oh or,and that just always stuck with
(28:25):
me.
I didn't know about Polly orwhat it meant, but I'm like,
well, if they're married andthey just happen to go to these
swinger parties and have fun,like whose business is that and
why does it matter?
And that's where I think thespark started for me.
And then I found this sexologist, shout out to Shan Boodram.
I don't know if you follow her.
Shan Boodram is this like youngsexologist and she and her
(28:47):
partner, who's now her husband.
She had an episode of herYouTube channel where she talked
about how they were polybecause her ex-boyfriend had hit
her up to like meet with her,to like just have a conversation
.
And she brought it up to herpartner and they just basically
realized that like, hey, like welet's talk about everything,
you know, if we want to go meetwith somebody or do something or
(29:08):
go on a date and they justbecame poly.
And I started looking into itand I'm like this really
resonates.
But yeah, I agree with you,it's been.
It's that's a heartbreaking one,I'll tell you.
When you tell somebody I knowyou probably go and do this too
you tell somebody that you'repoly and then they accept it and
you're like, ooh great, likelet's go.
And then, as you start gettinginto the reality especially you
(29:31):
having a partner I know it'sdifferent for you because you
you have someone else you haveto consider.
I don't so like this, like, oh,your time being split or
whatever that may look like thenthey're like, oh, maybe I don't
want to do this, and that'seven that's been the more
hurtful situations, cause I'mlike well, I told you and you
know you said you were cool andlike why are you not?
TJ (29:48):
cool.
Now I will say it's veryinteresting for the type of
relationship that we have nowcompared to when we first
started this, because there arepeople that I've dated and have
engaged with that like, yes,have been a part of like the
three of us, but also completelyseparate, um, and they've had
(30:12):
no interaction with them Likeone of one of the things that I
try to think about when I'mengaging with people is that if
I'm choosing to spend some timewith you, I'm choosing to spend
time with you, like the outsideworld does not exist unless you
want it to exist.
But if we're, if we're on a date, if we're having dinner, if
(30:33):
we're grabbing drinks orwhatever, that time is our time,
and I think it's hard forpeople to grasp that concept in
the back of their mind, stillknowing that there is someone
still attached to me, right, oneof the first someone that, like
I've, we started dating andhave become more friends now, um
(30:55):
, but one of our firstencounters I was like you know,
if you have no interest in likegetting to know him, that
doesn't have to be a part ofthis equation and for about
three weeks, anytime, we weretogether like no phone calls, no
texts, none of that.
Like we hung out a bunch andthey had never seen him and they
(31:15):
finally were like wait, isthere someone?
Like is there actually someoneelse?
I was like, yeah, like if youwant to meet him, you can, but,
like my goal is to is to giveyou.
My intent behind all of this isto give you the time and
attention, because this ishappening between the two of us,
like, again, if you wantsomething else to happen, that
can happen.
But, like I'm all about, youknow, face-to-face time with
(31:36):
with the individual that I'mtalking to.
Lonnie (31:38):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
That's.
That's the kind of relationshipI want, my and I'll ask you
I'll give you my perfectscenario relationships, you know
situation and I'm interested tohear, if you're open to it, um,
what your boundaries and rulesare with your partner, because I
feel like that's veryinteresting and I think
something that hopefully peoplecan take away from this is that
(31:59):
poly relationships are notmonolithic, just like monogamous
ones.
Or there's monogamousrelationships where a guy or a
person can go hang out withtheir boys and there's and go on
vacation with their friends,and there's some where where
where they don't.
But I feel like when it comesto poly, they try to put us all
in one box, like, oh, we're justsluts, we just like to have sex
with a bunch of differentpeople, and there's no rules,
everything goes, and we're justlike not satisfied and we're
(32:25):
always searching for somethingelse, which is not actually true
.
But for me, my ideal situationis that I would have two
partners.
I don't want a primary partner.
To your point, I'm, I'm, Iconsider myself solo poly and,
for those listening, solo polymeans that I consider myself as
my primary partner.
So I don't really want anyhierarchy, like I don't want to
(32:45):
live with the person or whatever.
But I want to have twoboyfriends.
To your point.
That's separate.
They know about each other,they, they, you know, they.
They know that I'm Polly andit's all open.
But like I don't necessarily, Idon't need them to engage, I
don't necessarily want to be ina throuple if I'm creating it.
Interestingly enough, I feellike I could be in a throuple if
(33:07):
I was invited into one.
But I don't necessarily, Idon't think I would build one,
I'm just going to say thatthrouples vacations are a lot
cheaper, but yes, listen, bills,bills, the way this economy is
set up, divided by three, comeon now.
So that's sort of my goal when Italk to people.
That's what I tell people.
(33:27):
You know, that's that's theideal for me.
I think I'm interesting thatyou brought the thing up about
anchor partner, cause I do thinkthat, like for some reason in
your poly journey, I thinkeveryone's relationship to
anchor partners changes.
Mine has changed a bit.
At first I was like, no, Idon't want to anchor partner.
As you just heard, my idealsituation is not to have one.
But I had a conversation withsomeone that I was dating once
(33:50):
that shifted a little bitbecause they said because
sometimes again, I can admit Ican be a little because I'm so
independent and like I was anonly child, I often don't always
think about the other person.
I know that sounds bad, butlisten, I'm here to be honest.
I don't always think about whatsomeone else needs to be happy.
Now, of course, if what theyneed goes beyond my boundaries,
(34:11):
I can't do it, but sometimesit's hard for me to compromise.
I'm just going to be honest andwith this person, what I found
out from this relationship wasthat, oh, you needed something
that I don't necessarily need ashighly as you need it, and some
people just need the,especially in a poly situation.
They need that like title, thatit gives them a sense of safety
(34:33):
that it doesn't give me.
But over the past year or twoI've sat with myself and said,
if my partner needs to be theanchor partner, I think I'm open
to having that conversation now, because if they're able to
express that, hey, I know thisis not like as big of a deal to
you, but as for me to feelgrounded in this, it would make
(34:58):
me satisfied, or it would.
It would do something for me,for me to be the primary partner
, and I'm like, oh I, now I cansee that you know more than I
could before and I'm open to itInteresting.
TJ (35:09):
Yeah, I I find myself to be, especially in now, in like the
last like seven or so years.
I'm a very nomadic person and Idon't necessarily need like a
home base per se.
Uh, even in like livingsituation, I think, just with
being a performer and likeconstantly going on tour and all
(35:30):
that stuff, I'm okay to liveout of a suitcase, I'm okay to
like pack my shit up and leavein two days if I have to.
So there's less of that that Ithink exists in our relationship
currently, whereas in thebeginning, because we met when
we were so young, that was ahuge thing to be and I think
(35:51):
that goes back to thisheteronormative way of being
that we were all taught thatlike this is how life is
supposed to look.
But as we both gotten older andkind of like further developed
our own careers and our lives,we've both come to this
realization that come home tosomeone.
(36:19):
But also, I think, because we'vebeen together so long and
because of where ourrelationship is now I'm sorry, I
did not mean for that to happenum, because of where our
relationship lives now that'snot as um, that's not as a,
that's not much of a core valuefor us anymore, um, as a
collective yeah, it's funny youbrought up boundaries, because
(36:41):
that was going to be my nextquestion to you.
At this present moment, thereare very few boundaries left for
us, and I don't mean that in anegative way.
I think we are just becausewe've been together for so long.
Because we've been together forso long, there are certain
(37:08):
things that don't affect us that, I think, would affect younger
couples or younger, youngerthrouples or, you know, polycues
or whatever.
Lonnie (37:11):
Yeah, probably to the binary, to the binaries.
So is it more like if you allmeet someone, it's every.
Every new person is like moreof a K, a new, not a case study,
but it's like I'll talk to themand engage and see where this
is going.
And then, or is there like arule, like hey, cause this is
what I'm super curious about Isthere a rule around when you
start talking to someone, causeI find that interesting, so
(37:40):
talking to someone because Ifind that interesting.
So I've met some poly peoplewho say my partner has to let me
know, like hey, I met this guynamed lani on the train today
and I thought he was cute.
Whatever we went, we might chat, and some are like I don't have
to tell my partner until itbecomes something.
We're about to have sex or,excuse me, go on a date.
Like, what are your rulesaround?
TJ (37:50):
like the new person it's funny because it's different for
both of us.
So for me, okay, I more so wantto know if you're engaging
sexually with someone else.
Uh, for him it's all aboutemotions.
Uh, he very much is like ifthis is getting serious to the
point where you want to invitethem over, let me know.
(38:10):
Or if this is someone that,like, you're going to be
spending lots of time with, letme know.
Um, so that's interestingbecause I feel like usually
people are very much like I wantto know everything from the
beginning.
You know, tell me all thedetails, I don't want to be left
out.
Um, whereas for us it's noteven, it's not even about that.
And I think, because we both,we are in in our polyness with,
(38:35):
especially with engaging withpeople separately, that looks
completely different for theboth of us, yeah, whereas some
things with him are more sointimacy via a friendship.
Mine is connection with people,like, yeah, what's what's unique
(38:58):
about you, what's like coolabout you that, like, no one
else has?
Right, like what, what can wesit and talk for hours about?
What can we go out and do todaywhen it's raining in new york
city, like those are the typesof things that I'm like oh, I do
want to experience this withthis person.
Um, there was a moment in timewhere I was like dating an
artist and we went to museums.
(39:20):
I was like that's cool.
I've never been with someonewho's like a visual artist, um,
so like stuff like that.
Like our, our poly expressionis completely different.
Um, and it's also differentwhen we're dating someone
together, like that's a wholedifferent.
Lonnie (39:36):
You know, yeah, um, so, so it sounds like it's pretty.
I hate to use the term openbecause it's so overly used, but
it sounds like it's pretty openin the sense that you guys, you
sometimes play together, youplay separately or, if it gets
serious, you even have you datedthe same person before as well.
(39:56):
Absolutely.
TJ (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, the first person we dated together was the
reason we became poly.
Ah, I love that.
It was intimate at first andthen it turned into a
relationship, and that's how wediscovered that we were
polyamorous.
Lonnie (40:13):
Y'all were both like listen, wait a minute, let's
listen.
That's how you know it was fire, that session was fire.
Y'all looked over like hmm, Ilove that, I love that.
TJ (40:26):
And then the second one was more recently.
Uh, we're friends now.
We're not like togethertogether, but we were a throuple
for about a year gotcha.
Lonnie (40:35):
That's cool, that's super cool.
It's interesting that youmentioned the emotional versus
sexual, because I think evenlike, uh, monogamous people talk
about that.
When it comes to cheating, likeI feel like people and that's
when I hear it most formonogamous folks is like they
talk about, like yo, I don'tcare if my girl cheats, as long
as it's just sex.
Like go ahead and just comeback home to me.
And there's other people whoare like actually, if you are
(40:58):
texting and lovey-dovey withsomebody, that's worse than
being sexual, and so it's veryinteresting that you brought
that up because I think that isvery interesting for me.
I'm more of a sapiosexual, sointellect is super important to
me.
So that's another layer to whybeing poly is different for me,
because I've been with peoplewho have been like if you just
wanted to have sex with otherpeople, I could probably be more
open to it.
(41:18):
But I actually want two realemotional relationships, like I
want to be boyfriends, because Ikind of need that for the
sexual part.
Like not not always, butideally I want to be engaging,
like that.
I want to have less casualencounters and more depth and,
um, I could even see myself Ithought about this before having
one partner that I wasn't evensexual with.
(41:39):
Like that, it was justemotional and maybe they were a
side or maybe they wereabstinent, or maybe they had
another partner where they hadsex.
I think I want more of the mindand I I always say I'm being
real boner, I'm in this bone, Ithink, because I'm about to turn
40.
I feel like I'm just likesaying you know how they say
older people, not that 40 is soold, but still I'm growing.
You know how they say likeolder people just say whatever
(42:01):
and I don't care.
I feel like I'm getting thereand, um, I feel like my toxic
trait is that I want to fucksomeone's mind, which is like I
think you know some people justwant to use like physical things
.
I think, like I want somebody tobe in love with me.
Like are you crazy?
Like it's me, like, why wouldyou want to be in love with me?
Think that can have a deeperconnection sometimes than just
(42:25):
casual sex.
But like I'm, like no, you needto like me, you need to know
that I'm a cool ass person andlike be into me.
And so, to your point, I seemyself in my future relationship
because I can only dream andwrite it down.
Um, is that I?
I would want to.
I'm kind of like you.
I don't think I would need toknow that you met somebody, but
(42:45):
I just want to.
I want the relationship to notfeel like you have to hide it.
If you want to tell me like,like that's really the most
important thing to me Like youdon't, I don't think it would be
a hard boundary.
Like, oh, my goodness, you metsome guy and you didn't tell me,
I don't care Like, but ifyou're going to start dating
them or, like you said, being,you know, being around them more
(43:05):
, let me know my vision for myrelationship, whether it's
monogamous or not, tj, is thatwe have open communication where
you want to.
You know, I always think aboutit like this.
I used to be like reallygrossed out by the idea when
people used to say, like, mypartner is my best friend but
now I get it, now that.
I'm older, I'm like I get it,cause when I think about my best
friend, I get it.
(43:30):
Now that I'm older, I'm like Iget it Because when I think
about my best friend, I can'twait to tell him everything,
because we're going to laughabout it, we're going to have a
story about it.
I'm going to say I met this guyat the gym and that's what
happened.
Or there was a really cute boythat was the maintenance man,
and we laugh about that.
I want to come home, or I don'treally want to come home
because I'm like I'm with you,like I've just I just met this
guy and he was cute, and likeyou want to see the picture or
(43:51):
whatever the thing is between us.
I just want that to be a thing,cause I've lived a life where I
couldn't do that Um, and itdoesn't feel good to have these
like interactions or feelingsand you can't tell your partner
and I don't think that hasanything to do with poly, and I
think a lot of monogamous peoplewill learn a lot from that Like
just being open to what yourpartner really is going through
(44:12):
and experiencing, versus theimage of them.
TJ (44:19):
That's a whole nother.
Lonnie (44:20):
I'm trying to split this up to a million parts, but
absolutely it's good to hear youbreak down and thank you for
being open about that Cause.
I feel like we don't hear theintricacies of people practicing
Pali and like what that couldlook like and the freedom in it
and the and the challenges in it, but also you know that there
(44:40):
is a way for you to create whatyou want to create and that's.
That's really what's the mostimportant thing in my opinion,
absolutely.
TJ (44:48):
And I hope that, um, I hope this has been helpful for folks
who listen or watch that arepoly or considering being
polyamorous, um, who don'tnecessarily feel representative,
uh, represented um, you know,in the in the social spaces like
social media or YouTube, or,you know, on podcast platforms.
Um, I hope that this has beenlike, helpful and informative
(45:13):
and, you know, giving you a peekinto folks who look like you um
, because that has been mynumber two goal on TVTJ to give
voice to um creators and peoplewho look like us, absolutely.
So, thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you.
Thank you, lonnie, for doingthis.
I'm baffled, I'm likegobsmacked.
(45:39):
You know we were able to dothis in two parts.
Lonnie (45:44):
We did that.
TJ (45:45):
So before we get into our last three, where can the folks
find you?
Lonnie (45:52):
Absolutely so.
You can find me on all socialmedia platforms at my name, just
Lonnie Woods the third.
So spell it out T H, e, t H I RD on Instagram and on Tik TOK.
I do a lot of thrifting andself-styling content on there,
so having fun over there onTikTok and also my podcast, what
I Did Wrong you can find.
Just search that wherever youfind your podcast and your music
(46:16):
.
And yeah, feel free to reachout on me on any of those
platforms.
And I am single, not that thisis a pitch, but, as I said, here
I am, there you go.
Pitch, but as I said, here I am, there you go.
This isn't a pitch, but winkwink, hit me up.
TJ (46:30):
Slide in my DMs.
You never know who's going tosee it.
You miss all the shots.
You don't take y'all.
So for our final three, we'dlove to just give a negative
knowledge to the audience.
How do you practice gratitude?
Lonnie (46:55):
to the audience.
How do you practice gratitude?
Wow, that's a great question.
How do I practice gratitude?
I think that gratitude for meshows up when I accomplish
something that I once wished for.
You know how sometimes they say, whether you're religious or
not, people say like you'reliving the life you once prayed
for.
I don't necessarily believe init like that because I'm not
religious, but when I dosomething that I manifested or I
(47:16):
thought about a long time agoand it's like, wow, that just
happened, I think that's wheregratitude shows up for me.
So I practice it by honoringthe moment that I manifest
through, you know, believing inmyself or believing in an idea.
TJ (47:32):
I love that.
Where do you find love?
Lonnie (47:39):
I find love.
This sounds cliche, but withinmyself, within this idea that I
deserve love, I think is asource of love in and of itself,
and I think that that kind ofgoes into what we talked about
today is that we do experiencelove from others, from ourselves
.
But love also is something thatexists outside of all of us.
(48:01):
It's something that just existsso you can grab and take a
piece from it and exist in it.
So I think the biggest sourceof love is just me, and how I
show up and treat others, Ithink is really a big expression
of that.
TJ (48:14):
I love that.
And then final question when doyou find beauty in the world?
Lonnie (48:21):
Oh, I find beauty in leaning into the things that I
like that society says Ishouldn't like, because the
question isn't if I like it,it's am I afraid that someone
else will judge me for liking it?
(48:42):
And that is where I find thestrength to lean into that,
because it's like no, youactually like that.
You just are afraid of whatsomeone else might say about you
liking it or the judgment thatmay come from it.
TJ (48:56):
That was perfect, that was beautiful.
Lonnie (48:59):
Thank you.
TJ (49:00):
Oh, my gosh Again.
Thank you, thank you, thank youfor doing this.
This has been amazing.
I couldn't have asked for abetter guest Happy to be here.
And with that, friends, I willsee you next week and that's our
show.
Friends, thanks for joining uson Tea with TJ.
(49:20):
Please rate, review andsubscribe, and you can find us
on Instagram at Tea with TJPodcast.
And, as always, stay kind, keepsipping and remember we're here
, so you might as well do it.
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