January 5, 2025 • 36 mins
Gillian Hammond’s journey from a rural childhood to becoming the principal of Repton in Dubai exemplifies the twists and turns of a fulfilling educational career. The conversation delves into her personal and professional development, focusing on creating an engaging and supportive school environment.
• Early creative influences from family and nature
• Transitioning from pharmacy to teaching
• Experiences in civil service and fraud investigation
• The impact of international teaching
• Leadership philosophy centred on student enjoyment
• Building a supportive school culture for staff and students
• Unique aspects of boarding life at Repton
• Trust and professional growth in educational leadership
• Importance of self-care and work-life balance
• Recommended books and podcasts for inspiration
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast
connecting, developing andempowering educators.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi everyone, welcome to the Teach Middle East podcast
.
My name is Lisa Grace.
Today I have Miss GillianHammond on the podcast.
She is the principal of Repton,dubai, but she's also the chief
education officer for her group, and so I'm going to be diving
in to a little bit more thanjust the professional, a little
(00:36):
bit into the personal, becausethis is behind the principal's
desk where we get to learn aboutthe person in the role, and so
it is my pleasure to welcome youto the podcast, gillian.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Thank you very much, Lisa.
It's great to be here with you.
I literally am behind my desk,so you're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
We're going to get to know who Gillian is and where
it all began.
Gillian, this is my newfavorite question to ask.
Tell me about little Gilliangrowing up.
What was she like and what didshe get up to?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
So little.
Gillian grew up in a part ofLancashire that was very rural
and had lots of countrysideeverywhere, so I was able to
walk myself to and from myprimary school.
That would take about 15minutes.
I would always take longergoing home.
I would stop off at the parkand there was a lot of tree
climbing and playing in thewoods and forests and building
(01:32):
bivouac dens and falling in theriver.
I've done that quite a fewtimes as little Jillian and I
then joined the Brownies andthen the Girl Guides and became
obsessive about getting thebadges on my uniform and doing
all of the different challengesthat we had to do for that and
camping and all sorts of things.
(01:54):
But I had my grandfather was agreat painter and so him and I
would do a lot of paintingtogether as well.
So I don't consider myselfartistic anymore.
I don't get involved so muchanymore, but I really enjoyed
doing that with him.
That was a bit of an outlet forme and I found I really did
(02:14):
like painting with oil paintsand watercolors.
So yeah, that was LittleGillian.
What was Little Gillianpainting?
I actually got into thenewspaper with one picture and
it was a flower scene.
It was roses.
But my granddad and I reallyloved painting, drawing and then
painting different birds,different quite close up bird
(02:37):
scenes and you know myself andour family members all still
have pictures around the housesthat my granddad had done and
they're very fond memories forme now.
I was very proud of doing thatwith him at the time.
It was quite different to whata lot of my friends were doing.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's funny, the things we remember, you know.
Sometimes you think it's themassive things, but it really
isn't.
It's just the little thingsthat join us together as family
or friends, the little bondingmoments, things like painting or
walking or running in the parkand that type of thing.
So you stayed in Lancaster,obviously for your child, but
when did you leave and why didyou leave?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So I left Lancashire first, probably when I went off
to university and I went off toNottingham to study chemistry
university.
And I went off to Nottingham tostudy chemistry and I loved it
because when I chemistry it hadnever been a childhood dream to
become a chemist.
But in year 10, when I was inhigh school, we had to go on
(03:36):
work placements and I alwaysremember them telling me that my
work placement was going to bein a hairdresser's and I said to
them and my family but I'm notinterested in going into
becoming a hairdresser, it's not, I'm not artistic that way,
it's not an interest of mine ora profession I want to go into.
And they said well, that's whatit is.
(03:56):
Unless you find another one,that's where you're going.
So my aunt was a manager in alocal pharmacy and Auntie Rini
was able to persuade them togive this year 10 girl 14,
turning 15, a two week workplacement and so I worked there
and I stacked shelves and Icleaned and I put prices on
(04:19):
things and then towards the endof that practice I was allowed
to be in the dispensary with thepharmacist and started helping
doing certain tasks there.
And it led on to all of myholidays and every Saturday and
a half an hour shift on a Sunday, which was interesting, and
that was just to open up thepharmacy just for the local
police station to fill theirprescriptions.
(04:41):
And it was something I did thenall through my college days and
even during the school holidayswhen I was at university.
So that gave me the taste, forI want to become a pharmacist.
That's what I wanted.
So I left Lancashire when I wentoff to Nottingham to study
chemistry and I loved it and Ihad a wonderful experience and
(05:03):
one of the memories that sticksout there is doing a lot of
organic chemistry but then beingsent off to what we were told
would be bucket chemistry, andit literally was.
It was taking it from a smallscale in the lab into a factory
size and upscaling that.
So we were literally dealingwith chemicals on a bucket size
and trying to make sure that wewere doing that accurately.
(05:23):
So it were literally dealingwith chemicals on a bucket size
and trying to make sure that wewere doing that accurately.
So it was a great practice.
I did some research into asthmaand unfortunately I became a
little bit disenfranchised withit.
I started to realize the moneythat pharmaceutical companies
were making by selling commoncold remedies that I thought a
(05:45):
lot of these things could becured actually, but we wouldn't
want to do that because there'stoo much money to be made and I
became really disenfranchisedwith it and I was opposed to the
animal testing and I didn'tknow what I wanted to do then at
that point and I was very for.
Again, through family, my momhas been, or was, a civil
(06:05):
servant all her life, so sheworked for the government in the
Department of Civil Service andactually through contacts there
, I became and this wasfantastic actually I became an
assistant inspector on a fraudteam for national insurance so
different and I did that forjust over two years and I loved
(06:29):
it.
Lisa, I had the best team thatI worked for.
We were working for companiesand for employees who had paid
over their national insurancebut then retired and the company
hadn't passed it on to thegovernment.
So it was a fraud scheme, or itwas what we would call
(06:53):
collusive employers, so it waspeople opting not to pay
national insurance so theyweren't being registered
properly with their employersand then they wouldn't have a
pension at the end of it becausethey didn't have sufficient
contributions.
So it was really interesting.
We recouped.
I was part of a team thatrecouped over in one year £3
billion worth of nationalinsurance and we were on truck
stops with the police and weraided premises and went and
(07:15):
collected the books and theaccounts and it was fascinating.
So I would very often be out ona highway with a high vis jacket
and hard boots and I loved it.
I did that for two years andthen my family kept giving me
stick and was saying you know,you're not going to earn much
more than you are now in thecivil service.
It's a dead-end job really.
Do you really want to be acivil servant for the rest of
(07:37):
your life?
You're not using your chemistry.
What are you going to do?
So I applied one to become ateacher.
I submitted an application andI submitted an application to
the police and I then got to thepoint where I had to make a
choice, and I am so gratefulthat I made the choice I did
because I sincerely have lovedmy career and I still love my
(07:59):
career now, so I feel blessed.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Can you imagine being a police officer?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
career now.
So I feel blessed.
Can you as a police officer?
You see, I as a chemist as well.
I like rules, I like regime.
I kind of need organization inmy life.
I can be quite.
I like things in their placeand organized and um, yeah, I I
thought it would be some.
I felt like I could make acontribution to the community in
doing that.
Um, but and it was a toughdecision ultimately when I was
offered both.
So, but I'm so grateful that Iwent the direction that I did.
(08:32):
It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You know how our paths are so winding, and.
But it all adds up to a richtapestry and it all gets, you
know, used at some point in ourlives.
So where did you start yourteaching career then?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
So, I remember doing my work placements.
So obviously when you're doingyour degree to become a teacher
you have to do two workplacements, and I again used
contacts.
I wanted to do two verydifferent work practices work
placements.
I was a little bit older thanmy peers because I'd worked for
(09:07):
a couple of years as well beforegoing back to university.
So I was a little bit moreassertive and knew what I wanted
to do than some of my peers.
And I managed to get one of myplacements in a special needs
school in St Helens.
And boy did I learn classroompedagogy there, because the
challenges that we face day in,day out, you know, we regularly
(09:29):
had to do student restraints tokeep, you know, maintain safety.
I remember taking a group ofstudents pond dipping as their
science teacher, and the headteacher said to me nobody's ever
dared take these students outand do that, are you sure?
And I did it.
I was adamant that we couldbroaden horizons for these
students.
So I started to get a real lovefor special education as well.
(09:52):
And then my second placement wasin an inner city school in
Magul, and it was at Magul HighSchool and I loved it.
It was a school year, seventhrough to sixth form eventually
.
That I helped set up and I wasthere seven years and I loved
that school.
So I had my placement there andthen, as I was leaving, they
(10:16):
were advertising for a scienceteacher and I was like I have to
get this job.
And I still remember it wasthose days, lisa you'll remember
, when all candidates would sitin the staff room and wait for
the decision to be made and theywould tell you on the spot
doesn't happen.
These days you go home and youhave to wait.
But I remember the head ofscience walking into the staff
room and there were five of usand obviously I'd worked with
(10:38):
this lady and done my eight-weekblock practice with her and her
department and I really wantedthis job.
And she walked in and she saidyou know, it's been a very
difficult decision and I startedfeeling faint.
She said, gillian, we're goingto offer you the job.
So I was elated and I stayedseven years and.
I.
Whilst I was there, I had theopportunity to help set up the
(10:59):
sixth form there and to makechanges there, and, yeah, I
loved it.
Seven years was a greatlearning path for me and a great
place to do my NQT, so yeah,and so your journey to
international teaching.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
How did that transition happen?
Because I'm interested, greatquestion.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I love travel.
That is something I'm reallypassionate in and I really
wanted to keep exploringdifferent education systems as
well.
And I saw that there would beyou know the tests.
It used to be the newspaperLisa I'm not old, be left in the
staff room, it'd be pinned up.
And I saw that there was aninternational section.
(11:39):
It had never occurred to me andI kind of was growing out of
the county that I was living inas well.
It's really quiet.
There was not a train systemreally there.
You had to drive to the nearestbiggest cities and I was
restless.
And I saw a job advertised inItaly and, as we used to have
(11:59):
family holidays there, I hadvery fond memories and it was in
an international school inItaly and I met with the
principal in London, got the joband I agreed that I would go
for one year and I went tosupport in modeling department
heads roles in around managingbudgets and performance,
(12:20):
management of staff andmonitoring the curriculum and
lesson observations.
And so I went and worked with agentleman called Jonathan Pram
and his amazing team up thereand I loved that this school.
It was FS all the way throughto year 13.
And attached to it we shared acanteen with an old age
(12:46):
pensioners home.
So there was residential livingthere for the eldest in the
community and I loved howconnected we were as this family
, this community, a lot ofItalian, predominantly Italians,
but a lot of expats as well,and that for me was just.
I adored it.
Um, but it was when I leftMcGill.
The senior leadership teamasked me to meet with them
before I left because theythought I was crazy.
They actually said to me I wasruining my career and I
(13:09):
shouldn't do it.
And if I go abroad, they wantedme to promise them I would only
go for a year.
And so I believed them at thetime.
I believe that that was true.
And so after the year that I'dagreed with Jonathan Cram at
this international school inTurin, I came back and I worked
for Belvedere Academy, andBelvedere in Liverpool was a
(13:30):
GDST girls school private,independent, fee paying girls
school and we converted it intoit was of national interest.
Actually we converted it into anon fee paying, paying,
non-entrance exam all girlsacademy and it really opened up
some doors for some of the girlsin that inner city area of
Prince's Park in Liverpool and Ihad three very, very good years
(13:54):
enjoying myself with workingwith Belvedere, and then I went
down to Brighton into a schoolin special measures.
I was part of a brand new SLTteam that a principal had been
tasked to form, philomena Hogg,who became my mentor, and I
worked there and we managed toget the school out of special
measures and we were delightedwith the outcome of the Ofsted
(14:17):
inspection and Phil, theprincipal I'd worked with,
philomena retired and we wereall saying, yeah, she's not
ready for retirement.
And the next thing I knew she'dcome out to Abu Dhabi and she'd
come out as a consultant forADEC and I got a call from her.
I'd done three and a half yearsat that school Brighton Aldridge
Community Academy and I got acall from her in the November.
(14:40):
I'll never forget it.
And she said, gillian, I needyou to come and help me with the
behavior of these boys.
And so she was strugglingimplementing behavior systems in
this school and asked would Icome out?
And so I got permission fromthe chair of the governors, sir
Rod Aldridge, that I could comeout in the January of that
(15:00):
following year.
So that was my start of fallingin love with the UAE back in
2018.
So I joined a GEMS school inAbu Dhabi and never looked back
really on my UAE journey.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Wow.
So somehow I thought you wereout here before 2018.
I don't know why that came tomy head.
No, you're right.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Sorry, I have just it was 2014.
You're right with GEMS.
It's, you're right.
I'm saying that wrong.
It's 2018, january 2018 withRepton.
You're right.
Thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
OK, because I'm like in my head I'm going.
I know I'm sure I knew youbefore that.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, you're spot on.
Well done, yeah, 2014 with GEMS, and then I was 2018 with
Repton, abu Dhabi.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
So, over those years, what do you think has kept you
going?
What's the guiding philosophy,what's the guiding principle?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I say this all the time, I say it to you know, the
staff and parents, and then evennew prospective parents.
My personal vision being in aschool is very, very simple.
I want students to love comingto school every day.
Now, that takes a lot and thatis that whole rounded holistic
education.
It is the children feeling partof something, that they belong,
(16:17):
that they are loved and caredfor and protected and safe, that
they see that they can achievetheir aspirations and their
dreams, that they're being givendrive, that they make friends,
that we open doors, that wecreate experiences for them.
I want them to be excited abouteducation and to love coming to
school every day.
And we see that and we hear itanecdotally.
(16:38):
Our parents tell us thatchildren, even though they're
sick, want to come into schoolbecause they don't want to miss
it and they enjoy it.
And that is my personal vision.
Constantly, I want us all if Ican get staff to love coming to
work that's also a benefit.
That would be amazing.
It doesn't always happen.
It's a job and you know some,but predominantly we have a long
(17:02):
.
Our staff give us long tenure.
We have some veterans here whohave been here now 17 years.
It's we wear our service badgeswith pride and I've handed out
37 badges to staff who've beenhere more than 15 years.
So we've got veterans in Reptonand it's because it is a great
place to work.
(17:22):
Our Reptonians are incredible,our values are spot on, we
believe, and the experiencesthat we then share as a Repton
family mean that you commit.
I've been with Repton sevenyears now and I want to get out
of bed every day to come in andmake that difference For me
personally as a principal.
I love the variety of the work.
(17:43):
I'm sat here behind theprincipal's desk.
That's what this podcast isabout.
I never know what's going tocome in every day and even as
much as you think you've plannedin advance.
You plan the calendar verycarefully.
My PA helps me plan thescheduling and diary very
carefully.
All of those things have to bedropped sometimes and honestly,
(18:04):
I love that aspect of it.
If I'm honest and in everyscenario, I will prioritize the
children in those instances, andthen staff and then the parents
, and it kind of goes in thatthat pecking order, and I I
value the support we have fromour parent community.
They're very, very supportiveand I only need to pick up the
phone or I'm on a WhatsApp groupwith the friends of Repton and
(18:27):
we do feel like a family, and soif you're not here and you're
not putting your best in, thenyou feel like you're letting
family members down.
So I think that's what keeps megoing.
We want to be world-class.
We are outstanding.
We've been outstanding for adecade now.
We've loved to celebrate thatand I think once you hit that
threshold, we discussed it atlength.
(18:48):
What's next?
And we say, well, we've got tobe outward, looking to find
other things that will keepchallenging us and stretching us
.
So looking at blockchain andcryptocurrency and all of these
things with our students.
So, yeah, I love the challengeand the variety.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, and Repton is a bit unique, especially your
campus in Dubai, because it's aboarding campus as well.
Tell me what's boarding likethere.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's amazing because I'm a boarding campus as well.
Tell me what's boarding likethere.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
It's amazing because I'm a boarding person.
I used to go to boarding schoolso I'm like what is boarding
like in Dubai?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
So this might bring some memories back for you then.
So yeah, we're the largestcampus in the UAE.
It is vast.
When I do my campus checks andtours, I wear sportswear on
those days, I book in my tourswith the facilities team and I
wear my sportswear on those days.
We have two boarding houses.
(19:42):
I call them my boarding babies.
We have 101 boarders, so we havea girls and a boys boarding
house and they are such anintegral part of our community I
will see them going up to sitonto the first floor very soon
for their end of day snacks andwhat have you.
We have onsite kitchens thatare like hotel kitchens
(20:02):
underground and chef and histeam produce the most amazing
meals for them every day, and weobviously benefit from that as
our catering provider then aswell, and he provides all of the
packed lunches and snack boxesand does the catering for our
inset days.
So we're very fortunate.
But the boarding really createthis.
It's almost a homely feel onthe campus, because if we have
(20:25):
rains or there are problems withweather or electricity or my
first thought goes to are theboarding babies okay?
Have they got everything theyneed?
Does AC still work?
What's our backup plans forthem and so we are open 100% of
the time.
So you know, when you seeschools closing because of
different things that are goingon with weather and different
(20:46):
problems that they might behaving, we've said to parents we
will be open all the time.
You don't need to ask us thatquestion.
You don't need to worry.
We're going to be here whetherwe have to kayak in or not, and
we literally myself and the SLTmake sure that we watch these
events happening very closely.
We make sure we get here becausewe have students here all of
(21:09):
the time so they create a realdynamism of the time, so they
create a real dynamism about theplace I think there are often.
Many of them are leaders andthey fully engage with all of
the activities and bring a lotalong of their peers as well.
It means that we provide anopportunity to students overseas
who perhaps might not have hadthe opportunity here.
(21:29):
So parents place their studentshere because it can be quite a
good central point for parentsif they travel a lot because of
their work.
We also have a tennis academyhere, the Emilio Sanchez Tennis
Academy, so we're going to havea Reptonian who's a Wimbledon
champion and you know thosestudents have come specifically
because they can live here andattend the tennis academy before
(21:53):
school and after school hoursas well, because their ambition
is to play at Wimbledon.
So it means that you know thatit goes hand in hand.
Really, it provides an amazingopportunity for students who
perhaps might not have been ableto come and join us.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, when you're talking about like the chef, and
I'm like I bet this was notlike a Church of England
boarding school all girlsboarding school that I went to I
promise you that was.
There was no chef there.
There was a lady who cooked andsometimes she cooked stuff that
we couldn't eat.
So let's just be honest.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It's not the same.
No, I can imagine.
And chef has a rolling menu ofdifferent cuisine, so he'll do,
you know, Chinese food one night, indian food another night,
african another night, and it'sbrilliant.
And so when we did our staffinset, we themed the days as
well, and that's what we we wereable to enjoy.
And the last Friday of everymonth, on a Friday, as one of
(22:49):
our well-being initiatives, weas a staff member, as a staff
body, we sit and have lunchtogether as well, the last
Friday of every month, on aFriday, as one of our well-being
initiatives, we, as a staffmember, as a staff body, we sit
and have lunch together as well,the last Friday of every month,
which is lovely.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Let's just say Repton is boarding 3.0, the advanced
version.
That's not your regular, butit's not, it's definitely not
Probably not, probably not.
That's not irregular, but it'snot.
It's definitely not.
So tell me then, gillian, whenyou look at your obviously very
(23:33):
long and interesting career notlong by age, but long because
you varied it so much you knowsome chemistry here, some
insurance fraud detection there,some special education needs
over there and some teachingover here, and then some
leadership all in the mix whatdo you love most about your role
?
So I'm talking about you, notyour school and not not the job,
but what do you love about your, your influence, that you can?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
have and make.
So if you do it right, you notonly provide incredible
opportunities for the studentsbut you develop internal staff
talent who want to stay, whostay, and you also have
(24:09):
opportunities and move on anddemonstrate that lifelong
learning journey and growthjourney to students as well, and
I think that's really impactful.
And I think the thing that I'mmost proud about my career thus
far besides the students andwhat the school has achieved and
all of those things is that mysenior leadership teams have all
(24:32):
progressed in their jobs, intheir roles and in their career
and we've done that with ourmiddle leaders.
We've replicated that.
So I believe in distributedleadership.
We have 72 middle leaders atthis school because we
distribute it out.
And in my two previous Reptonschools, my vice principal in
(24:53):
Repton, abu, dhabi, became theprincipal, assistant head
teachers became head teachers,both of them and they are all
three still there In Repton AlBarsha, my vice principal became
the principal, and so you knowwe've moved people up and
created opportunities, and I'mdoing because it shows that our
staff professional developmentand our development of leaders
(25:35):
is working and is impactful andI am probably personally very,
very proud about that.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I love that because this year we're doing leading
forward, leaving a legacy, andso I wanted to just check with
you how have you managed to dothat?
Because very, very few schoolshave that nice pathway built for
leadership, for the teachersand the middle leaders to aspire
(26:01):
.
How did you manage to do that?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
It's for me.
I started with the structuresand was very clear about their
specific roles and was veryclear about their specific roles
.
Often teams any leadership team, whether it's middle leaders or
senior leaders often theirroles overlap too much and there
can be wasted time and lessaccountability and you can't
challenge and push and progress.
(26:25):
So I started with the middleleaders and looked at well, what
do we need?
Not tailor-making roles topersonalities or people in them,
but actually saying, no, theseare the roles that our students
and our school needs.
Let's find the right people forthose roles and be very clear
about these are the jobdescriptions and these are your
(26:45):
KPIs that you need to achieveand then replicate that with the
senior leaders.
You need to achieve and thenreplicate that with the senior
leaders.
However, with the seniorleaders, what I do and we do it
every year and I know itcontinues in the other two
schools is we have a chart andlike we share it with everybody,
so everybody sees what are themain top 10 things, if you like,
responsibilities for eachsenior leader.
(27:06):
So everybody knows who doeswhat and there isn't any.
Yes, we support each other.
Yes, we have to work together,but everybody knows who does
what and there isn't any.
Yes, we support each other.
Yes, we have to work together,but everybody knows what their
responsibility is and they havethe KPIs for that and they take
ownership and they can be heldaccountable for those things and
it's clear to everybody.
But every year I mix them up alittle bit.
So in the September I give outto SLT slightly mixed up and
(27:30):
moved around responsibilities,because when you become a head
teacher and then a principal,you have to have had the
pastoral experience and you haveto have had the curriculum
experience and health and safetyand safeguarding.
So I try and make sure thateverybody keeps getting
something they're passionateabout and we know they can be
amazing at, but also somethingthat puts them outside of their
(27:51):
comfort zone a little bit.
And you should see some oftheir faces sometimes and they
sort of I've no experience ofdoing that and I'm like that's
why you're now going to take itnow, because you've no
experience of doing that and Isee your potential and the
capacity.
So it's trusting, it's givingthe structures in the first
place, it's holding people toaccount, but it's then the
praise, the recognition, butalso the trust, and I try and
(28:15):
use that word a lot.
Oh, I trust your instincts.
No, I trust your decision onthat.
Well, no, I trust that you'vewritten that in the policy and
you'll do that with your team.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
So I regularly use that word and it seems to work
Very, very proud of them.
Yeah, it's a good track recordif all your three have moved up
and more.
It's a.
It's a good track record.
And I love that word trust,because that trust means that it
doesn't come with any sort ofno.
It does come with nervousnessbecause you have to be like, oh,
my god, is it?
But it comes with the abilityfor them to fail and come to you
(28:50):
and say, oh, that didn't work,but knowing that you're not
going to come down on them likea ton of bricks, that they can
go back and fix their mistakes,because people want that freedom
to fix mistakes that they'vemade.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I like that.
It's how we learn.
It's how we learn, isn't it?
Through making mistakes.
I like that a lot.
We say that one of our valuesis to have a growth mindset and
we have to model that.
We have to model that all thetime to middle leaders, to our
teachers and to our students,and there's a lot of power in
the word.
Yet so we say, well, I haven'tgot experience with that yet.
Well, I don't know how to dothat yet, or I can't do that yet
(29:24):
.
So we don't let anybody getaway with using that kind of
language, unless they add theyet.
So yeah, love that oh thank you.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
So, julia, how do you take care of you then?
Because you're busy, big oldcampus what are you doing for
you?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
do you know I'm very good at this.
Now I I'm nailing it.
I think it takes a while to dothat and I stand by that.
As SLT, we have to model usswitching off, because if we
don't and we still are working,that's usually picked up by
(30:03):
emails or through other staff,so our work just ultimately goes
down as well, and that can'talways happen.
So I have, in all three schoolsnow, introduced a 630-630 rule,
and it took a while for thedirectors and service providers
and our CEO and all of thedifferent people and governance
(30:23):
that we work with to get used tothat.
That you're not going to get aresponse from us before 6.30 in
the morning or after 6.30 pm atnight, only during working hours
, unless there's a realemergency, and then they know.
You know, of course, but sothat we stand by that rigidly.
During the holidays I don't, orweekends, I don't expect staff
(30:45):
to work.
We work really, really hardduring turn time, but we don't
expect staff to work, and Imodel that.
So I share what books I'm goingto read, I share where I'm
going to go traveling on holiday, but what we do have for our
senior leadership team is in allof our schools we have an
on-call rota.
So on our out of office, ifanybody emails us, it will say
(31:07):
this is the HR person that youneed to contact.
This is compliance, this isfinance, this you know all the
key ones.
But if there's something urgentand you need to speak to an
academic and you need to speakto a senior leader, then these
are the ones who are on call.
So it's like fastest finger.
First, when my PA puts out theschedule for you to write your
names in the dates that you want, because that can be flexible
(31:29):
and we swap them with each otherwho we've got a wedding or a
special event and it means thenthat on.
So we've just had half term.
Now I did the first Sunday ofthe half term.
That was my own full day.
I don't open my emails.
We don't have our notificationson.
I only check the emails on thatday and I'll only respond to
(31:50):
urgent ones.
You have to train for theexpectations and I ignore
everything else and I try.
And what we say to each otheris we trust each other's
decisions.
So if it's a SLT member havingto make a decision about a
junior school issue, but they'repredominantly senior school.
That's okay, we'll trust theirdecision and we'll allow them to
(32:11):
handle that.
And then, and we model that andyou have to be so strict with
yourselves and sometimes we haveto remind each other of that as
well, and we do and wechallenge each other about that.
So I, this half term, I was verylucky and I went away on
holiday and I worked one day,and when I say worked, I checked
for urgent emails.
(32:32):
That was all I did.
So I'm very good at that.
Now I probably do work 6.30,6.30, if I'm honest, on those
days In our term time days, butI literally check.
I can be at home from 5.30, butthe last time I look at emails
is about 6.20, just in casethere's something I need to see.
(32:53):
And after that everybody knowswe're off duty.
So I've got better.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Good, good, good good , because there's so many people
who are on that email at 10 atnight and you're like go to
sleep.
Sleep is really important.
You need sleep.
You will make drunk decisions,and drunk not by alcohol, but
drunk by lack of sleep.
You'll make drunk decisions ifyou don't get proper rest.
So what are you doing?
(33:19):
Are you running?
Are you jogging?
Are you yoga-ing?
What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I'm an avid reader.
I love reading.
Reading is my escape.
I took three books with me onholiday.
I got through two.
I love reading, but I'm a yogagirl as well.
So I you know, as you get older, you need to keep that
flexibility and strength going.
So I really like yoga.
I'm not a big gym or runningfan.
(33:45):
I'm going to be honest with you.
My sister would find thathilarious if she thought I was
doing that, because she's thecomplete opposite.
But no, I'm not.
I like swimming when I'm onholiday, I really do like
swimming.
That was something I used to doa lot as a kid as well.
But yeah, reading and yoga, Iwould say, particularly during
the work week, obviously, seeingfriends socializing.
I also have a dog and she makesme walk twice a day, which is
(34:07):
very healthy, um, and Iappreciate that, because
sometimes you might not feellike going out and doing that,
and you know it's.
It's much nicer now with thefresh air and the cooler
temperatures, and I actuallyreally enjoy feeling that when I
go out now as well, and Iprobably wouldn't have done that
as much if I didn't have thedog to do that with.
So she's very funny.
(34:28):
She's still quite young, sothat's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So last question fill up our reading list.
Help us, help us out with ourreading list.
What books have you readrecently that you were like get
this on your shelf now?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Oh my God, get this on your shelf now is Lessons in
Chemistry.
I've read it twice because Ilove it so much.
It's nothing to do withchemistry, by the way.
One of the characters is achemist, but it's not chemistry
based, it's not for scientists.
It's a wonderful book about alady overcoming some bias.
It's set, you know, many, manyyears ago, but it's a fantastic
(35:04):
book and it's laugh out loud.
But it's also sad in parts andit makes you think.
I've, then, just read quite achallenging one called Eye for
an Eye by FJ Arledge, and itchallenged me in that it was
talking about retribution and isthat via stories, stories and
and you know it's an, it's anovel, it's fiction, but it was
(35:27):
really interesting and it reallymade me pause and and think um
about what the writer was wasputting across.
It was great and even when Iclosed the last page, I I
remember I was on my sunbed onholiday and I was it still made
me think about it afterwards.
So I have to say I'vediscovered that I love crime
junkie podcast.
(35:48):
Yeah, I love it.
I don't know if you've heardabout that.
I love podcasts of an eveningIf my mind is still thinking
about work and my eyes are tootired to read anymore, I will
stick a podcast on, and I oftendon't hear the end of it, but
it's something that really doesrelax me.
So, yeah, my new one is it'scalled Crime Junkie, so yeah,
(36:10):
ooh, love it, thank you.
Gillian, very welcome.
Thank you so much, lisa.
I hope to see you very soon.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
And you thank you for being on the podcast, of course
, for being on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Of course.
Thank you for listening to theTeach Middle East podcast.
Visit our websiteteachmiddleeastcom and follow us
on social media.
The links are in the show notes.
You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast
connecting, developing andempowering educators.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi everyone, welcome to the Teach Middle East podcast
.
My name is Lisa Grace.
Today I have Miss GillianHammond on the podcast.
She is the principal of Repton,dubai, but she's also the chief
education officer for her group, and so I'm going to be diving
in to a little bit more thanjust the professional, a little
(00:36):
bit into the personal, becausethis is behind the principal's
desk where we get to learn aboutthe person in the role, and so
it is my pleasure to welcome youto the podcast, gillian.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Thank you very much, Lisa.
It's great to be here with you.
I literally am behind my desk,so you're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
We're going to get to know who Gillian is and where
it all began.
Gillian, this is my newfavorite question to ask.
Tell me about little Gilliangrowing up.
What was she like and what didshe get up to?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
So little.
Gillian grew up in a part ofLancashire that was very rural
and had lots of countrysideeverywhere, so I was able to
walk myself to and from myprimary school.
That would take about 15minutes.
I would always take longergoing home.
I would stop off at the parkand there was a lot of tree
climbing and playing in thewoods and forests and building
(01:32):
bivouac dens and falling in theriver.
I've done that quite a fewtimes as little Jillian and I
then joined the Brownies andthen the Girl Guides and became
obsessive about getting thebadges on my uniform and doing
all of the different challengesthat we had to do for that and
camping and all sorts of things.
(01:54):
But I had my grandfather was agreat painter and so him and I
would do a lot of paintingtogether as well.
So I don't consider myselfartistic anymore.
I don't get involved so muchanymore, but I really enjoyed
doing that with him.
That was a bit of an outlet forme and I found I really did
(02:14):
like painting with oil paintsand watercolors.
So yeah, that was LittleGillian.
What was Little Gillianpainting?
I actually got into thenewspaper with one picture and
it was a flower scene.
It was roses.
But my granddad and I reallyloved painting, drawing and then
painting different birds,different quite close up bird
(02:37):
scenes and you know myself andour family members all still
have pictures around the housesthat my granddad had done and
they're very fond memories forme now.
I was very proud of doing thatwith him at the time.
It was quite different to whata lot of my friends were doing.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's funny, the things we remember, you know.
Sometimes you think it's themassive things, but it really
isn't.
It's just the little thingsthat join us together as family
or friends, the little bondingmoments, things like painting or
walking or running in the parkand that type of thing.
So you stayed in Lancaster,obviously for your child, but
when did you leave and why didyou leave?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So I left Lancashire first, probably when I went off
to university and I went off toNottingham to study chemistry
university.
And I went off to Nottingham tostudy chemistry and I loved it
because when I chemistry it hadnever been a childhood dream to
become a chemist.
But in year 10, when I was inhigh school, we had to go on
(03:36):
work placements and I alwaysremember them telling me that my
work placement was going to bein a hairdresser's and I said to
them and my family but I'm notinterested in going into
becoming a hairdresser, it's not, I'm not artistic that way,
it's not an interest of mine ora profession I want to go into.
And they said well, that's whatit is.
(03:56):
Unless you find another one,that's where you're going.
So my aunt was a manager in alocal pharmacy and Auntie Rini
was able to persuade them togive this year 10 girl 14,
turning 15, a two week workplacement and so I worked there
and I stacked shelves and Icleaned and I put prices on
(04:19):
things and then towards the endof that practice I was allowed
to be in the dispensary with thepharmacist and started helping
doing certain tasks there.
And it led on to all of myholidays and every Saturday and
a half an hour shift on a Sunday, which was interesting, and
that was just to open up thepharmacy just for the local
police station to fill theirprescriptions.
(04:41):
And it was something I did thenall through my college days and
even during the school holidayswhen I was at university.
So that gave me the taste, forI want to become a pharmacist.
That's what I wanted.
So I left Lancashire when I wentoff to Nottingham to study
chemistry and I loved it and Ihad a wonderful experience and
(05:03):
one of the memories that sticksout there is doing a lot of
organic chemistry but then beingsent off to what we were told
would be bucket chemistry, andit literally was.
It was taking it from a smallscale in the lab into a factory
size and upscaling that.
So we were literally dealingwith chemicals on a bucket size
and trying to make sure that wewere doing that accurately.
(05:23):
So it were literally dealingwith chemicals on a bucket size
and trying to make sure that wewere doing that accurately.
So it was a great practice.
I did some research into asthmaand unfortunately I became a
little bit disenfranchised withit.
I started to realize the moneythat pharmaceutical companies
were making by selling commoncold remedies that I thought a
(05:45):
lot of these things could becured actually, but we wouldn't
want to do that because there'stoo much money to be made and I
became really disenfranchisedwith it and I was opposed to the
animal testing and I didn'tknow what I wanted to do then at
that point and I was very for.
Again, through family, my momhas been, or was, a civil
(06:05):
servant all her life, so sheworked for the government in the
Department of Civil Service andactually through contacts there
, I became and this wasfantastic actually I became an
assistant inspector on a fraudteam for national insurance so
different and I did that forjust over two years and I loved
(06:29):
it.
Lisa, I had the best team thatI worked for.
We were working for companiesand for employees who had paid
over their national insurancebut then retired and the company
hadn't passed it on to thegovernment.
So it was a fraud scheme, or itwas what we would call
(06:53):
collusive employers, so it waspeople opting not to pay
national insurance so theyweren't being registered
properly with their employersand then they wouldn't have a
pension at the end of it becausethey didn't have sufficient
contributions.
So it was really interesting.
We recouped.
I was part of a team thatrecouped over in one year £3
billion worth of nationalinsurance and we were on truck
stops with the police and weraided premises and went and
(07:15):
collected the books and theaccounts and it was fascinating.
So I would very often be out ona highway with a high vis jacket
and hard boots and I loved it.
I did that for two years andthen my family kept giving me
stick and was saying you know,you're not going to earn much
more than you are now in thecivil service.
It's a dead-end job really.
Do you really want to be acivil servant for the rest of
(07:37):
your life?
You're not using your chemistry.
What are you going to do?
So I applied one to become ateacher.
I submitted an application andI submitted an application to
the police and I then got to thepoint where I had to make a
choice, and I am so gratefulthat I made the choice I did
because I sincerely have lovedmy career and I still love my
(07:59):
career now, so I feel blessed.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Can you imagine being a police officer?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
career now.
So I feel blessed.
Can you as a police officer?
You see, I as a chemist as well.
I like rules, I like regime.
I kind of need organization inmy life.
I can be quite.
I like things in their placeand organized and um, yeah, I I
thought it would be some.
I felt like I could make acontribution to the community in
doing that.
Um, but and it was a toughdecision ultimately when I was
offered both.
So, but I'm so grateful that Iwent the direction that I did.
(08:32):
It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You know how our paths are so winding, and.
But it all adds up to a richtapestry and it all gets, you
know, used at some point in ourlives.
So where did you start yourteaching career then?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
So, I remember doing my work placements.
So obviously when you're doingyour degree to become a teacher
you have to do two workplacements, and I again used
contacts.
I wanted to do two verydifferent work practices work
placements.
I was a little bit older thanmy peers because I'd worked for
(09:07):
a couple of years as well beforegoing back to university.
So I was a little bit moreassertive and knew what I wanted
to do than some of my peers.
And I managed to get one of myplacements in a special needs
school in St Helens.
And boy did I learn classroompedagogy there, because the
challenges that we face day in,day out, you know, we regularly
(09:29):
had to do student restraints tokeep, you know, maintain safety.
I remember taking a group ofstudents pond dipping as their
science teacher, and the headteacher said to me nobody's ever
dared take these students outand do that, are you sure?
And I did it.
I was adamant that we couldbroaden horizons for these
students.
So I started to get a real lovefor special education as well.
(09:52):
And then my second placement wasin an inner city school in
Magul, and it was at Magul HighSchool and I loved it.
It was a school year, seventhrough to sixth form eventually
.
That I helped set up and I wasthere seven years and I loved
that school.
So I had my placement there andthen, as I was leaving, they
(10:16):
were advertising for a scienceteacher and I was like I have to
get this job.
And I still remember it wasthose days, lisa you'll remember
, when all candidates would sitin the staff room and wait for
the decision to be made and theywould tell you on the spot
doesn't happen.
These days you go home and youhave to wait.
But I remember the head ofscience walking into the staff
room and there were five of usand obviously I'd worked with
(10:38):
this lady and done my eight-weekblock practice with her and her
department and I really wantedthis job.
And she walked in and she saidyou know, it's been a very
difficult decision and I startedfeeling faint.
She said, gillian, we're goingto offer you the job.
So I was elated and I stayedseven years and.
I.
Whilst I was there, I had theopportunity to help set up the
(10:59):
sixth form there and to makechanges there, and, yeah, I
loved it.
Seven years was a greatlearning path for me and a great
place to do my NQT, so yeah,and so your journey to
international teaching.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
How did that transition happen?
Because I'm interested, greatquestion.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I love travel.
That is something I'm reallypassionate in and I really
wanted to keep exploringdifferent education systems as
well.
And I saw that there would beyou know the tests.
It used to be the newspaperLisa I'm not old, be left in the
staff room, it'd be pinned up.
And I saw that there was aninternational section.
(11:39):
It had never occurred to me andI kind of was growing out of
the county that I was living inas well.
It's really quiet.
There was not a train systemreally there.
You had to drive to the nearestbiggest cities and I was
restless.
And I saw a job advertised inItaly and, as we used to have
(11:59):
family holidays there, I hadvery fond memories and it was in
an international school inItaly and I met with the
principal in London, got the joband I agreed that I would go
for one year and I went tosupport in modeling department
heads roles in around managingbudgets and performance,
(12:20):
management of staff andmonitoring the curriculum and
lesson observations.
And so I went and worked with agentleman called Jonathan Pram
and his amazing team up thereand I loved that this school.
It was FS all the way throughto year 13.
And attached to it we shared acanteen with an old age
(12:46):
pensioners home.
So there was residential livingthere for the eldest in the
community and I loved howconnected we were as this family
, this community, a lot ofItalian, predominantly Italians,
but a lot of expats as well,and that for me was just.
I adored it.
Um, but it was when I leftMcGill.
The senior leadership teamasked me to meet with them
before I left because theythought I was crazy.
They actually said to me I wasruining my career and I
(13:09):
shouldn't do it.
And if I go abroad, they wantedme to promise them I would only
go for a year.
And so I believed them at thetime.
I believe that that was true.
And so after the year that I'dagreed with Jonathan Cram at
this international school inTurin, I came back and I worked
for Belvedere Academy, andBelvedere in Liverpool was a
(13:30):
GDST girls school private,independent, fee paying girls
school and we converted it intoit was of national interest.
Actually we converted it into anon fee paying, paying,
non-entrance exam all girlsacademy and it really opened up
some doors for some of the girlsin that inner city area of
Prince's Park in Liverpool and Ihad three very, very good years
(13:54):
enjoying myself with workingwith Belvedere, and then I went
down to Brighton into a schoolin special measures.
I was part of a brand new SLTteam that a principal had been
tasked to form, philomena Hogg,who became my mentor, and I
worked there and we managed toget the school out of special
measures and we were delightedwith the outcome of the Ofsted
(14:17):
inspection and Phil, theprincipal I'd worked with,
philomena retired and we wereall saying, yeah, she's not
ready for retirement.
And the next thing I knew she'dcome out to Abu Dhabi and she'd
come out as a consultant forADEC and I got a call from her.
I'd done three and a half yearsat that school Brighton Aldridge
Community Academy and I got acall from her in the November.
(14:40):
I'll never forget it.
And she said, gillian, I needyou to come and help me with the
behavior of these boys.
And so she was strugglingimplementing behavior systems in
this school and asked would Icome out?
And so I got permission fromthe chair of the governors, sir
Rod Aldridge, that I could comeout in the January of that
(15:00):
following year.
So that was my start of fallingin love with the UAE back in
2018.
So I joined a GEMS school inAbu Dhabi and never looked back
really on my UAE journey.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Wow.
So somehow I thought you wereout here before 2018.
I don't know why that came tomy head.
No, you're right.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Sorry, I have just it was 2014.
You're right with GEMS.
It's, you're right.
I'm saying that wrong.
It's 2018, january 2018 withRepton.
You're right.
Thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
OK, because I'm like in my head I'm going.
I know I'm sure I knew youbefore that.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, you're spot on.
Well done, yeah, 2014 with GEMS, and then I was 2018 with
Repton, abu Dhabi.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
So, over those years, what do you think has kept you
going?
What's the guiding philosophy,what's the guiding principle?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I say this all the time, I say it to you know, the
staff and parents, and then evennew prospective parents.
My personal vision being in aschool is very, very simple.
I want students to love comingto school every day.
Now, that takes a lot and thatis that whole rounded holistic
education.
It is the children feeling partof something, that they belong,
(16:17):
that they are loved and caredfor and protected and safe, that
they see that they can achievetheir aspirations and their
dreams, that they're being givendrive, that they make friends,
that we open doors, that wecreate experiences for them.
I want them to be excited abouteducation and to love coming to
school every day.
And we see that and we hear itanecdotally.
(16:38):
Our parents tell us thatchildren, even though they're
sick, want to come into schoolbecause they don't want to miss
it and they enjoy it.
And that is my personal vision.
Constantly, I want us all if Ican get staff to love coming to
work that's also a benefit.
That would be amazing.
It doesn't always happen.
It's a job and you know some,but predominantly we have a long
(17:02):
.
Our staff give us long tenure.
We have some veterans here whohave been here now 17 years.
It's we wear our service badgeswith pride and I've handed out
37 badges to staff who've beenhere more than 15 years.
So we've got veterans in Reptonand it's because it is a great
place to work.
(17:22):
Our Reptonians are incredible,our values are spot on, we
believe, and the experiencesthat we then share as a Repton
family mean that you commit.
I've been with Repton sevenyears now and I want to get out
of bed every day to come in andmake that difference For me
personally as a principal.
I love the variety of the work.
(17:43):
I'm sat here behind theprincipal's desk.
That's what this podcast isabout.
I never know what's going tocome in every day and even as
much as you think you've plannedin advance.
You plan the calendar verycarefully.
My PA helps me plan thescheduling and diary very
carefully.
All of those things have to bedropped sometimes and honestly,
(18:04):
I love that aspect of it.
If I'm honest and in everyscenario, I will prioritize the
children in those instances, andthen staff and then the parents
, and it kind of goes in thatthat pecking order, and I I
value the support we have fromour parent community.
They're very, very supportiveand I only need to pick up the
phone or I'm on a WhatsApp groupwith the friends of Repton and
(18:27):
we do feel like a family, and soif you're not here and you're
not putting your best in, thenyou feel like you're letting
family members down.
So I think that's what keeps megoing.
We want to be world-class.
We are outstanding.
We've been outstanding for adecade now.
We've loved to celebrate thatand I think once you hit that
threshold, we discussed it atlength.
(18:48):
What's next?
And we say, well, we've got tobe outward, looking to find
other things that will keepchallenging us and stretching us
.
So looking at blockchain andcryptocurrency and all of these
things with our students.
So, yeah, I love the challengeand the variety.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, and Repton is a bit unique, especially your
campus in Dubai, because it's aboarding campus as well.
Tell me what's boarding likethere.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's amazing because I'm a boarding campus as well.
Tell me what's boarding likethere.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
It's amazing because I'm a boarding person.
I used to go to boarding schoolso I'm like what is boarding
like in Dubai?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
So this might bring some memories back for you then.
So yeah, we're the largestcampus in the UAE.
It is vast.
When I do my campus checks andtours, I wear sportswear on
those days, I book in my tourswith the facilities team and I
wear my sportswear on those days.
We have two boarding houses.
(19:42):
I call them my boarding babies.
We have 101 boarders, so we havea girls and a boys boarding
house and they are such anintegral part of our community I
will see them going up to sitonto the first floor very soon
for their end of day snacks andwhat have you.
We have onsite kitchens thatare like hotel kitchens
(20:02):
underground and chef and histeam produce the most amazing
meals for them every day, and weobviously benefit from that as
our catering provider then aswell, and he provides all of the
packed lunches and snack boxesand does the catering for our
inset days.
So we're very fortunate.
But the boarding really createthis.
It's almost a homely feel onthe campus, because if we have
(20:25):
rains or there are problems withweather or electricity or my
first thought goes to are theboarding babies okay?
Have they got everything theyneed?
Does AC still work?
What's our backup plans forthem and so we are open 100% of
the time.
So you know, when you seeschools closing because of
different things that are goingon with weather and different
(20:46):
problems that they might behaving, we've said to parents we
will be open all the time.
You don't need to ask us thatquestion.
You don't need to worry.
We're going to be here whetherwe have to kayak in or not, and
we literally myself and the SLTmake sure that we watch these
events happening very closely.
We make sure we get here becausewe have students here all of
(21:09):
the time so they create a realdynamism of the time, so they
create a real dynamism about theplace I think there are often.
Many of them are leaders andthey fully engage with all of
the activities and bring a lotalong of their peers as well.
It means that we provide anopportunity to students overseas
who perhaps might not have hadthe opportunity here.
(21:29):
So parents place their studentshere because it can be quite a
good central point for parentsif they travel a lot because of
their work.
We also have a tennis academyhere, the Emilio Sanchez Tennis
Academy, so we're going to havea Reptonian who's a Wimbledon
champion and you know thosestudents have come specifically
because they can live here andattend the tennis academy before
(21:53):
school and after school hoursas well, because their ambition
is to play at Wimbledon.
So it means that you know thatit goes hand in hand.
Really, it provides an amazingopportunity for students who
perhaps might not have been ableto come and join us.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, when you're talking about like the chef, and
I'm like I bet this was notlike a Church of England
boarding school all girlsboarding school that I went to I
promise you that was.
There was no chef there.
There was a lady who cooked andsometimes she cooked stuff that
we couldn't eat.
So let's just be honest.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It's not the same.
No, I can imagine.
And chef has a rolling menu ofdifferent cuisine, so he'll do,
you know, Chinese food one night, indian food another night,
african another night, and it'sbrilliant.
And so when we did our staffinset, we themed the days as
well, and that's what we we wereable to enjoy.
And the last Friday of everymonth, on a Friday, as one of
(22:49):
our well-being initiatives, weas a staff member, as a staff
body, we sit and have lunchtogether as well, the last
Friday of every month, on aFriday, as one of our well-being
initiatives, we, as a staffmember, as a staff body, we sit
and have lunch together as well,the last Friday of every month,
which is lovely.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Let's just say Repton is boarding 3.0, the advanced
version.
That's not your regular, butit's not, it's definitely not
Probably not, probably not.
That's not irregular, but it'snot.
It's definitely not.
So tell me then, gillian, whenyou look at your obviously very
(23:33):
long and interesting career notlong by age, but long because
you varied it so much you knowsome chemistry here, some
insurance fraud detection there,some special education needs
over there and some teachingover here, and then some
leadership all in the mix whatdo you love most about your role
?
So I'm talking about you, notyour school and not not the job,
but what do you love about your, your influence, that you can?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
have and make.
So if you do it right, you notonly provide incredible
opportunities for the studentsbut you develop internal staff
talent who want to stay, whostay, and you also have
(24:09):
opportunities and move on anddemonstrate that lifelong
learning journey and growthjourney to students as well, and
I think that's really impactful.
And I think the thing that I'mmost proud about my career thus
far besides the students andwhat the school has achieved and
all of those things is that mysenior leadership teams have all
(24:32):
progressed in their jobs, intheir roles and in their career
and we've done that with ourmiddle leaders.
We've replicated that.
So I believe in distributedleadership.
We have 72 middle leaders atthis school because we
distribute it out.
And in my two previous Reptonschools, my vice principal in
(24:53):
Repton, abu, dhabi, became theprincipal, assistant head
teachers became head teachers,both of them and they are all
three still there In Repton AlBarsha, my vice principal became
the principal, and so you knowwe've moved people up and
created opportunities, and I'mdoing because it shows that our
staff professional developmentand our development of leaders
(25:35):
is working and is impactful andI am probably personally very,
very proud about that.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I love that because this year we're doing leading
forward, leaving a legacy, andso I wanted to just check with
you how have you managed to dothat?
Because very, very few schoolshave that nice pathway built for
leadership, for the teachersand the middle leaders to aspire
(26:01):
.
How did you manage to do that?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
It's for me.
I started with the structuresand was very clear about their
specific roles and was veryclear about their specific roles
.
Often teams any leadership team, whether it's middle leaders or
senior leaders often theirroles overlap too much and there
can be wasted time and lessaccountability and you can't
challenge and push and progress.
(26:25):
So I started with the middleleaders and looked at well, what
do we need?
Not tailor-making roles topersonalities or people in them,
but actually saying, no, theseare the roles that our students
and our school needs.
Let's find the right people forthose roles and be very clear
about these are the jobdescriptions and these are your
(26:45):
KPIs that you need to achieveand then replicate that with the
senior leaders.
You need to achieve and thenreplicate that with the senior
leaders.
However, with the seniorleaders, what I do and we do it
every year and I know itcontinues in the other two
schools is we have a chart andlike we share it with everybody,
so everybody sees what are themain top 10 things, if you like,
responsibilities for eachsenior leader.
(27:06):
So everybody knows who doeswhat and there isn't any.
Yes, we support each other.
Yes, we have to work together,but everybody knows who does
what and there isn't any.
Yes, we support each other.
Yes, we have to work together,but everybody knows what their
responsibility is and they havethe KPIs for that and they take
ownership and they can be heldaccountable for those things and
it's clear to everybody.
But every year I mix them up alittle bit.
So in the September I give outto SLT slightly mixed up and
(27:30):
moved around responsibilities,because when you become a head
teacher and then a principal,you have to have had the
pastoral experience and you haveto have had the curriculum
experience and health and safetyand safeguarding.
So I try and make sure thateverybody keeps getting
something they're passionateabout and we know they can be
amazing at, but also somethingthat puts them outside of their
(27:51):
comfort zone a little bit.
And you should see some oftheir faces sometimes and they
sort of I've no experience ofdoing that and I'm like that's
why you're now going to take itnow, because you've no
experience of doing that and Isee your potential and the
capacity.
So it's trusting, it's givingthe structures in the first
place, it's holding people toaccount, but it's then the
praise, the recognition, butalso the trust, and I try and
(28:15):
use that word a lot.
Oh, I trust your instincts.
No, I trust your decision onthat.
Well, no, I trust that you'vewritten that in the policy and
you'll do that with your team.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
So I regularly use that word and it seems to work
Very, very proud of them.
Yeah, it's a good track recordif all your three have moved up
and more.
It's a.
It's a good track record.
And I love that word trust,because that trust means that it
doesn't come with any sort ofno.
It does come with nervousnessbecause you have to be like, oh,
my god, is it?
But it comes with the abilityfor them to fail and come to you
(28:50):
and say, oh, that didn't work,but knowing that you're not
going to come down on them likea ton of bricks, that they can
go back and fix their mistakes,because people want that freedom
to fix mistakes that they'vemade.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I like that.
It's how we learn.
It's how we learn, isn't it?
Through making mistakes.
I like that a lot.
We say that one of our valuesis to have a growth mindset and
we have to model that.
We have to model that all thetime to middle leaders, to our
teachers and to our students,and there's a lot of power in
the word.
Yet so we say, well, I haven'tgot experience with that yet.
Well, I don't know how to dothat yet, or I can't do that yet
(29:24):
.
So we don't let anybody getaway with using that kind of
language, unless they add theyet.
So yeah, love that oh thank you.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
So, julia, how do you take care of you then?
Because you're busy, big oldcampus what are you doing for
you?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
do you know I'm very good at this.
Now I I'm nailing it.
I think it takes a while to dothat and I stand by that.
As SLT, we have to model usswitching off, because if we
don't and we still are working,that's usually picked up by
(30:03):
emails or through other staff,so our work just ultimately goes
down as well, and that can'talways happen.
So I have, in all three schoolsnow, introduced a 630-630 rule,
and it took a while for thedirectors and service providers
and our CEO and all of thedifferent people and governance
(30:23):
that we work with to get used tothat.
That you're not going to get aresponse from us before 6.30 in
the morning or after 6.30 pm atnight, only during working hours
, unless there's a realemergency, and then they know.
You know, of course, but sothat we stand by that rigidly.
During the holidays I don't, orweekends, I don't expect staff
(30:45):
to work.
We work really, really hardduring turn time, but we don't
expect staff to work, and Imodel that.
So I share what books I'm goingto read, I share where I'm
going to go traveling on holiday, but what we do have for our
senior leadership team is in allof our schools we have an
on-call rota.
So on our out of office, ifanybody emails us, it will say
(31:07):
this is the HR person that youneed to contact.
This is compliance, this isfinance, this you know all the
key ones.
But if there's something urgentand you need to speak to an
academic and you need to speakto a senior leader, then these
are the ones who are on call.
So it's like fastest finger.
First, when my PA puts out theschedule for you to write your
names in the dates that you want, because that can be flexible
(31:29):
and we swap them with each otherwho we've got a wedding or a
special event and it means thenthat on.
So we've just had half term.
Now I did the first Sunday ofthe half term.
That was my own full day.
I don't open my emails.
We don't have our notificationson.
I only check the emails on thatday and I'll only respond to
(31:50):
urgent ones.
You have to train for theexpectations and I ignore
everything else and I try.
And what we say to each otheris we trust each other's
decisions.
So if it's a SLT member havingto make a decision about a
junior school issue, but they'repredominantly senior school.
That's okay, we'll trust theirdecision and we'll allow them to
(32:11):
handle that.
And then, and we model that andyou have to be so strict with
yourselves and sometimes we haveto remind each other of that as
well, and we do and wechallenge each other about that.
So I, this half term, I was verylucky and I went away on
holiday and I worked one day,and when I say worked, I checked
for urgent emails.
(32:32):
That was all I did.
So I'm very good at that.
Now I probably do work 6.30,6.30, if I'm honest, on those
days In our term time days, butI literally check.
I can be at home from 5.30, butthe last time I look at emails
is about 6.20, just in casethere's something I need to see.
(32:53):
And after that everybody knowswe're off duty.
So I've got better.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Good, good, good good , because there's so many people
who are on that email at 10 atnight and you're like go to
sleep.
Sleep is really important.
You need sleep.
You will make drunk decisions,and drunk not by alcohol, but
drunk by lack of sleep.
You'll make drunk decisions ifyou don't get proper rest.
So what are you doing?
(33:19):
Are you running?
Are you jogging?
Are you yoga-ing?
What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I'm an avid reader.
I love reading.
Reading is my escape.
I took three books with me onholiday.
I got through two.
I love reading, but I'm a yogagirl as well.
So I you know, as you get older, you need to keep that
flexibility and strength going.
So I really like yoga.
I'm not a big gym or runningfan.
(33:45):
I'm going to be honest with you.
My sister would find thathilarious if she thought I was
doing that, because she's thecomplete opposite.
But no, I'm not.
I like swimming when I'm onholiday, I really do like
swimming.
That was something I used to doa lot as a kid as well.
But yeah, reading and yoga, Iwould say, particularly during
the work week, obviously, seeingfriends socializing.
I also have a dog and she makesme walk twice a day, which is
(34:07):
very healthy, um, and Iappreciate that, because
sometimes you might not feellike going out and doing that,
and you know it's.
It's much nicer now with thefresh air and the cooler
temperatures, and I actuallyreally enjoy feeling that when I
go out now as well, and Iprobably wouldn't have done that
as much if I didn't have thedog to do that with.
So she's very funny.
(34:28):
She's still quite young, sothat's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So last question fill up our reading list.
Help us, help us out with ourreading list.
What books have you readrecently that you were like get
this on your shelf now?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Oh my God, get this on your shelf now is Lessons in
Chemistry.
I've read it twice because Ilove it so much.
It's nothing to do withchemistry, by the way.
One of the characters is achemist, but it's not chemistry
based, it's not for scientists.
It's a wonderful book about alady overcoming some bias.
It's set, you know, many, manyyears ago, but it's a fantastic
(35:04):
book and it's laugh out loud.
But it's also sad in parts andit makes you think.
I've, then, just read quite achallenging one called Eye for
an Eye by FJ Arledge, and itchallenged me in that it was
talking about retribution and isthat via stories, stories and
and you know it's an, it's anovel, it's fiction, but it was
(35:27):
really interesting and it reallymade me pause and and think um
about what the writer was wasputting across.
It was great and even when Iclosed the last page, I I
remember I was on my sunbed onholiday and I was it still made
me think about it afterwards.
So I have to say I'vediscovered that I love crime
junkie podcast.
(35:48):
Yeah, I love it.
I don't know if you've heardabout that.
I love podcasts of an eveningIf my mind is still thinking
about work and my eyes are tootired to read anymore, I will
stick a podcast on, and I oftendon't hear the end of it, but
it's something that really doesrelax me.
So, yeah, my new one is it'scalled Crime Junkie, so yeah,
(36:10):
ooh, love it, thank you.
Gillian, very welcome.
Thank you so much, lisa.
I hope to see you very soon.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
And you thank you for being on the podcast, of course
, for being on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Of course.
Thank you for listening to theTeach Middle East podcast.
Visit our websiteteachmiddleeastcom and follow us
on social media.
The links are in the show notes.
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