August 31, 2025 • 46 mins
Barry Cooper, founding principal of The Global College in Madrid, explores what educators should prioritise in the new academic year, with particular focus on navigating AI challenges and fostering critical thinking.
• Barry's journey from considering priesthood to banking to finding his true calling in education
• The Global College's vision of internationalism with at least 50% overseas students
• Their innovative entrepreneurship program in partnership with IE University
• Why AI is the "big ticket item" for educators this year
• The four principles for healthy AI use: understanding AI, understanding the topic, using AI as a collaborator, applying critical thinking
• The importance of focusing on student understanding rather than just content production
• How student agency and voice are central to The Global College's approach
• The need for safe spaces where students can discuss complex global issues
• Current challenges in university admissions and higher education systems
• Why teaching remains "literally the best job in the world" despite its challenges
Connect with Barry Cooper on LinkedIn to continue the conversation about education, AI, and preparing students for a rapidly changing world.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/barrycoopereducation/
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Hosted by Leisa Grace Wilson
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast
connecting, developing andempowering educators.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey everyone, this is Lisa Grace and this is take two
.
By the way, I just tried torecord without even checking
what season we're in.
Guys, we are in season six ofthe Teach Middle East podcast.
Welcome, welcome to a newacademic year, Welcome to a new
season of the podcast, withamazing guests lined up more
(00:40):
amazing than I deserve and Ithink it just keeps getting
better and better.
I have with me Barry Cooper, bythe way.
Barry's got like a whole middlename going on situation there.
It's Barry Anthony Cooper.
He is the founding principal ofthe Global College and we're
(01:00):
going to chat unscripted todayabout what we need to be
focusing on as educators as wego into this new academic year.
So Barry doesn't even know thetitle of the podcast.
That is how cryptic I have been,ladies and gentlemen, because
I'm thinking you know what.
I don't want robots on thispodcast.
(01:21):
I want to add value and I don'twant people going off and
rehearsing some gibberish tocome and spit at me and spit at
you, my wonderful listeners.
By the way, before I evencalled Barry in, I have to say
you guys have been phenomenal.
Rashid, who is our editor andpodcast statistician, big word
(01:43):
actually came back and said weare now at 37 and a half
thousand subscribers.
So talk to me about how muchyou guys have made me so happy
with that number.
I can't imagine that manypeople listening to me droning
on in their ears, but I thankyou, I thank you, I thank you.
(02:03):
Thank you, Barry.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Welcome to the podcast thank you very much and
it's actually a real pleasurefor me to be here, because
obviously I've read your stuffand I've listened to the podcast
and seen kind of your posts onsocial media.
So I was quite chuffed when yousaid, hey, do you fancy coming
on?
And I did, of course, to get toask, oh, what are we talking
about?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
so yeah, let's go for it so here's the thing with the
podcast and with the peoplethat I try to reach out to and
talk to.
I want to get their views, Iwant to get their insights on
what we need to be thinkingabout in education, and I follow
you on LinkedIn particularly,and I read your stuff.
(02:42):
There are people that whentheir posts come up on LinkedIn,
I don't scroll and I do scrollpast others.
I'm sorry, I'm human, you knowthe scroll is real, but I do
stop and read and I love thefact that you tackle some of the
bigger questions in educationand I also love the fact that
you're coming from a learningperspective, and I also love the
fact that you're coming from alearning perspective, not an
(03:05):
I-know-everything kind ofperspective.
So I love that.
Barry, tell me a little bitabout you, because I know you
did a stint in Dubai, so I wantyou to take me back and give me
a quick career profile.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
How far back do I go?
Ok, a long time ago, in a partof East London far, far away, I
thought I was going to be apriest.
Far away, I thought I was goingto be a priest and then I
thought I was going to be asoldier.
This is my uncle's professionand my father's profession, so
it kind of this is how we, howwe roll who's the priest?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
who's the soldier?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
uh, my, my uncle was a priest and my father was a
soldier, briefly.
And then, yeah, he, he waspensioned out on an injury and
then I went to university.
I loved studying and I madethat mistake that we all do when
we come out of university andthink money and the city and
banking.
And I dove into a job in thecity and I hated it from day one
(03:53):
.
Oh my word, I was clawing, Iwas tunnelling, it was can I get
over the wire?
Can I get under the gate?
Anything I could do to get out.
And a friend of mine who wasleaving teaching because it
wasn't for him to go and becomequite a successful police
officer actually he worked inthe flying squad I said, look, I
reckon you should think aboutteaching.
Okay, I'll give it a go.
(04:14):
So I thought about it.
I talked to some people andthen I got this part-time role
at Epsom College in the South ofEngland, on the condition that
they trained me up.
And so I was part of the GTP,which was the thing that came
before Teach First, and I did myqualifications there and it was
great, it was amazing, it wasbrilliant, because I got to
learn from this brilliant groupof people.
(04:35):
So I shared classrooms withJames Postle, for example.
I shared a classroom with him.
He is a really successfuldirector of admissions is I
think he's stepping back fromthat now.
I shared a classroom with a guycalled murray todd who's now
the head of wellington in india.
I learned from a guy calledalan scatting, who's the head of
the department, and I just Ilearned, I learned, and I
learned as a young guy and thisis the whole thing for me is
(04:56):
teaching and being in a schoolfor me has always been about me
learning and then me trying togive that back as much as I can.
And so I did Epsom and thenmoved to Scotland with my wife
for 10 years and did everysingle job you can in the school
apart from being head.
So I was the director ofadmissions, I was director of
marketing, I was the academicdirector, and then we wanted an
(05:17):
adventure and moving overseas.
So we did three years inShanghai with Wellington,
shanghai, which is amazing, andthen helped open Brighton
College, dubai, with MarcoLongmore, who's an amazing guy,
absolutely brilliant head,really fantastic leader.
And then this opportunityopened up in Madrid and during
COVID we were thinking can weget back a bit closer to home
(05:40):
and my wife, being far smarterthan me, speaks Spanish and it
was kind of an opportunity forthe family.
So we up sticks just at the endof lockdown, came to Madrid and,
working with the team behindthe global college kind of
worked to get it off the groundand we opened in 2022.
So we've just had our secondcohort through.
So we're a 16 to 18 school, sowe just do the IB diploma at the
(06:04):
moment and we've just had oursecond cohort through.
I'm really proud of them.
I'm going to make a point ofnot talking about stats at all,
because I think it's all aboutthe individual and there's some
great kids who are going off todo really interesting things and
I'm very, very happy for them.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So the Global College is just for post-16?
.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
At the moment we're IB Diploma, so obviously we're a
startup school.
So we decided, instead ofstarting at the younger end, we
would start at the older end andsee how that developed.
So it's an ongoing project.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
OK, so you're going to build and go down the year
groups as you build that name.
What's behind it?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
the Global College that name what's behind it, the
Global College.
That was when I arrived, butthe thinking behind it was
really to try and be asinternational as possible.
So we're in Madrid and we, veryspecifically, we intentionally
ensure that at least 50% of ourcohort are from overseas.
So we're not Spanish.
So in Madrid you'll finddifferent types of school and
(07:04):
the international slash privateschools.
You'll find different types ofschool and the international
slash private schools.
It's a half and half often.
So you often find it's verydominated by overseas or it's
very dominated by Spanish, andso we wanted to try and have
that global mindset aboutinternationalism but also to,
you know, walk the walk and makesure that we were bringing the
Spanish of the Spanish school,but also bringing the
(07:25):
internationalism and theglobalism to a global school.
So that's where it came about.
It's kind of a name that wasdesigned to be an intention,
almost.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
So tell me what are some of the unique things that
you guys are doing there thatyou think is worth talking about
.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
The unique things we do.
We've got this greatrelationship with IE University.
So if anyone your listenerswill probably know about IE.
So I started life as a businessschool, is now a full-club
university, has a verticalcampus in Madrid, fantastic
place run by a really energisedteam that I really get on with.
I was fortunate, they werequite nice and they put me on
their advisory board forheadmasters.
(08:01):
I think it's because we have arelationship and I was down the
road.
But there's some reallyfantastic people like Miguel
Costa, who runs admissions, markHurtado these people who are
really kind of driving afantastic university.
Now, with them, we run anentrepreneurship program.
So we kill the timetable for,in total, probably about seven
(08:23):
or eight days during the courseof the first year for our dp1s
and the idea is to get themconnected with university
professors who come in becauseit's ie and it's business and
it's entrepreneurship.
You know they do this all thetime and they give us this crash
course in entrepreneurship forour dp1s.
And when we talked about thisand we were setting this up, we
(08:43):
said we don't want this to beabout the next Bill Gates and
the next Steve Jobs or whatever.
We want it to be about the realimportance of our
entrepreneurship, things likeproblem spotting, problem
solving, ideation, teamwork,communication, all these sorts
of things.
So it's as valuable to someonewho wants to be a doctor as it
is to someone who wants to goand study business or economics
(09:06):
at LSE.
So we really wanted to focus inon the skills, and the team are
absolutely amazing, and what wedo is we take the kids on that
journey all the way to the pointwhere they have to pitch an
idea and they have semifinalsand then they have finals.
So there's a great Googlecampus here in Madrid and we
take that over for the afternoonand we get our finalists up on
(09:27):
stage, we have someone come inas a guest judge and then the
winners I think actually thisyear was the top two get to
pitch at the equivalent at ieuniversity and they usually hold
their own.
So it's about encouraging skilldevelopment, encouraging the
idea of entrepreneurship, whichI think is a really important
part of moving forward in ourmodern world, and also getting
(09:50):
the kids doing something out ofthe box and doing something
difficult and getting them tostruggle, because sometimes it
can be all about let's do therope learning, let's do the math
problem.
No, no, no, no, no.
I want you to go.
Start me a business about rideshare, go.
So it's something different forthem to do.
That's one thing.
How many things am I allowedthat I'm proud of Go ahead with
(10:10):
at least?
another one, I think something Ireally love is that we've
really worked hard to encouragea collegiate sense of agency for
our students and for our, youknow, the team members, and for
the parents as well.
So there's this constantconversation and we work on that
process, that idea of alwaystrying to find a way to say yes.
(10:31):
So if a student or a colleaguecomes to me and says, hey, I've
got this idea, it's a bit mad,but my first instinct is always
right okay, let's keep sayingyes until it becomes obvious
this isn't the right thing to do.
And I think from that we've hadsome really interesting
projects, both kind of staffdriven, where they take hold of
their own interests, and we haveprojects that you know
(10:52):
obviously involve the studentsbut more importantly the
students, where we've had peopleset up their own charity, set
up their own social movement.
We've got a school charitythat's now in its third year
that's being handed down fromthe very first year, that works
on food and resource collectionfor natural disasters.
So you may have, you know, wehad something here in valencia.
Previous to that there was theearthquake in morocco.
(11:13):
So it was these things that thechildren really wanted to get
involved with, but verystudent-led.
And, you know, for us as a team, we tried to take a step back
and be that safety net to say,ok, you've run into a problem,
let's talk it through.
But I think that idea is notmetricised I can't measure it
but trying to really fosterstudent agency and I think
(11:33):
that's something everyone buysinto.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I love the fact that you guys do that whole
entrepreneurship piece.
I was talking this summer to afriend of mine about, obviously,
exams and his child does notwant to go to university.
He actually wants to become afarmer and the dad is like.
The dad told me of all thepeople in the world that she was
(11:55):
like can you talk some senseinto him?
And I was like, technically Idon't think I'm the right person
.
Because if he's really sureabout what he wants to do as it
relates to farming and he reallydoes have a plan and he's not
using it as an excuse to skiveoff, I would say to you let him
(12:16):
go do some courses inagriculture.
Use that university money thatyou've saved up to give him a
head start.
Maybe lease him a piece ofproperty, help him buy some
equipment if he has a solid plan, because in the end he could go
back and study at universitylater on when he's made his
(12:37):
money or he's done what he wantsto do, or he could just never
go back and be an absolute smashhit success.
It really is about getting tothe bottom of who he is as an
individual and what he aspiresto do, not the whole cliche go
to school, go to university,because that's what I did as a
(13:01):
parent.
So, yeah, I love that wholeentrepreneurship piece, because
some students might, throughyour program, discover, hey, do
I really want to continue thisor do I want to now go off and
really do that idea that I'vehad?
And when you hear from lots ofentrepreneurs, they dropped out
of school I'm not advocatingthat hello, but if that's your
(13:24):
path, that's your path.
I want to shift gears, though.
This is the start of a newacademic year.
You are ahead, and the wholepodcast is about what we need to
be mindful of as we are goinginto this new shift, this new
year.
What are some of the and I wantyour top three.
You're speaking to educators,you're speaking to school
(13:44):
leaders, and I want your topthree.
You're speaking to educators.
You're speaking to schoolleaders.
What do they need to be mindfulof going?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
into this new year.
Well, I would never presume tolecture anybody about what I
think they should be doing.
I think every single context isdifferent.
I think every single school isdifferent.
I can tell you what I'mfocusing on and then people can
take kind of that not as aschool, as individual.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
So you're not lecturing, you're saying in my
opinion, this is what I thinkneeds.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, all right.
So my opinion I think the bigticket item at the moment is AI.
I think that's the big ticketitem.
That's what I'm focusing on.
It's day one with the team.
I'm going to be talking aboutit next week.
Day one with the students.
A week after that, I'm going tobe talking about it with them,
(14:32):
about how we use it, how weunderstand it, how we see it,
both in the short, medium andthe long term, and how to do two
things, I think one, maximizethe benefit for them and two,
avoid them falling into thetraps that I think it is laying
for us and it's laying foreducators.
It's laying quite a few.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
What are those traps?
Don't move, stay with it, stickwith it.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Okay, what are those traps?
I think the traps.
They're how do I describe them?
Cognitive.
So it's about thinking.
I think one of the biggestissues we have as an industry in
terms of teaching is we've beenmetricised both by groups
owning schools who areinterested in the bottom line,
by governments who areinterested in the statistics to
(15:16):
prove that they're better thanthe people who came before them.
So, numbers, numbers, numbers,metrics, metrics, metrics.
What matters to the people whoare pulling all these strings at
the is the, the things that youcan show for what you do, for
the people in the classroom.
What we're really interested inis does you know little jenny
or little timmy understand moretoday than they did yesterday?
(15:38):
Now, with ai, we have thisfantastic opportunity for young
people to get great grades, dotheir homework, push ideas, just
produce, produce, produce,produce, produce.
It's a trap that we can fallinto to just deliver and hand
over a thing, to get a mark, tomove on to the next stage of our
(15:58):
lives.
And that is a trap both in theimmediate term, because once you
get there you're not going toknow what you're doing, and in
the long term, in terms of theeroding of our way of educating,
and there's lots of people thatare talking about this.
It's a very great broad space.
I think what we have to bemindful of is how we encourage
understanding in our students,how we encourage thought in our
(16:21):
students.
What do you think should be theone and only question that we
ask our students?
Not where's your essay, butwhat do you think about this
subject?
What do you think about thisidea?
How would you take this ideaforward?
I think the issue with AI is itstops conversations, it stops
interactions, and only ininteractions, only with
(16:43):
experience.
Experience only with action,only with questioning.
And this is like.
This is going back to some ofmy favorite philosophers you
know, it's camus and sartre andheidegger, you know.
Can we get to a point wherestudents are really grasping the
nettle and grasping the ideasthat they have in front of them?
If we step away from that, ifwe go and I get emails every day
(17:05):
about AI, this and AI, that andthis will improve, go away.
What we want to be able to do iswe want students to understand
where they were, where they are,how they got there, and it's
through the doing, it's throughthe struggle.
And if they're not strugglingand they're not learning through
that struggle, then what'shappening is we're absolving the
responsibility to do.
We're absolving theresponsibility to do, we're
(17:26):
absolving the decision-making.
It's like going to a restaurantand asking your date what you
should have.
Sorry, no, you have to do thething.
Ask her what she likes and say,oh, I kind of like that as well
.
What do you think I might like?
If I like this and this, youcan have a conversation with AI.
You can use it as a facilitator, you can use it as a
collaborator on your project.
(17:47):
But if you for a second handover to these AI tools you're
prerogative to have thosethoughts then we're running into
some dangerous ground.
So that's a very kind of youknow.
I've been doing a lot of readingabout this this summer to try
and figure out what I think youknow in that Schopenhauer way.
It's like I'm writing a book,so I know what I think.
If you know what you think,write your own book.
(18:09):
But I think it's reallyimportant for us to, as we go
into the new year, encouragethought, encourage critical
thinking, encourage philosophy,encourage reading, encourage
history, encourage geography,encourage politics, encourage
people to look around.
I think in the uae especially,you have an amazing opportunity
because there are 200 differentnationalities that live in the
(18:29):
uae.
You have every singleopportunity to go and talk to
someone from azerbaijan orkazakhstan or peru or, you know,
north macedonia, wherever itmay be.
You have this chance to saywhat's it like there, tell me
about you, and to build thoseconnections, collaborations
because that's what a school isis a collection of relationships
(18:49):
, and I think the more we buildon that idea, the better we're
going to be able to use the newtechnology that will keep on
coming and it's going to comelike a tidal wave, and the more
tools we have to deal with it,the better we'll be able to deal
with that technology when itgets here and to use it for the
best ends of our students,because I think as teachers,
(19:12):
we're not.
I mean for me, this is why Idon't like talking about stats
or things like that.
I don't really care about thegrades.
I care about how well have Ihelped that student understand
themselves and the world, and Ithink that as a mission
statement for all educators isprobably it's probably intrinsic
in most of us who work inschools.
(19:32):
That's what we really want.
We want them to have that lightbulb moment.
It doesn't matter if it's an Astar or a C.
If it's something that's goneup from where they previously
were, it's a win, with no matterwhat you can tell.
I'm passionate about this,can't you Sorry?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I'm going off on Listen.
I'm here for it, but I need toask you though I hear all the
warnings that you're giving, andI can also hear my listeners in
my head going.
Then how do we implement it?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Absolutely yeah, but that's the really difficult
thing, and that's where it's notdown to one person to tell
everyone what to do.
It's down to teachers talkingto each other and coming up with
ideas.
I think the implementation itwill be an evolving kind of you
know, body of work over thecoming years about how we
implement these ideas, how werelate to technology, how we
(20:23):
work with technology.
I think for us at the college,we work on four principles in
terms of kind of AI.
So you have to understand whatAI is.
So both teachers and studentshave to have an understanding of
what an AI actually is beforeyou start using it.
You have to understand thetopic before you start using it.
So these are, this isprinciples.
This isn't.
(20:44):
You know, you can't legislatethis, you can't punish people
for not doing it, but this iswhat you want them to do.
It has to be used as acollaborator and anything that
comes out of that has to be usedthrough a lens of critical
thought.
So those are our four laws.
So we based them off Asimov'slaws and I've spoken about this
before just in terms of how.
Because you can't legislate thetech, because all of these
companies are giving this to youfor free, which means, sorry,
(21:10):
we're the product, because we'rebuilding this thing for them
with the interaction and witheverything else.
So if you're going to use it,fine, use it, but legislate
yourself and use it within aframework that you know can
protect yourself and can ensurethat you're making headway.
And this is just a startingpoint.
I mean, I would love for peopleto write to me or tell me
actually, you know what, barry,you need to think of this as a
(21:34):
different way, because teachingis a team sport.
I mean, we're all in thisbecause we want kids to get
better, we want kids to succeed.
That's it.
I mean, I don't care if I teachthem or if somebody else
teaches them.
It's still my responsibility.
And if I can help somebody else, fantastic.
I know for a fact 99% ofteachers would turn around and
say, if I can help that guy,yeah, I will.
And any idea is a good idea.
Yeah, there's no such thing asa bad idea.
(21:55):
Yeah, it might not be right.
Then I mean, okay, right, okay,the 0.1% of bad ideas.
But you know what?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I didn't want to interrupt in teaching.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
It might not work then, but it might work with
this, or you know, you have thatother phrase that you always
kick in.
This could work.
If so, you can then moderate itand then you can change it and
you can add to it and or you cantake away from it.
And that's what educators, Ithink, in the coming year, five
years, 10 years, need to be Needto be talking to one another
and need to be collaboratingwith one another.
(22:26):
The more we talk to each otheras educators, the more ideas we
get from one another, the betterthe outcome.
I think what people often lookfor is they look for this
central or single idea, thismagic bullet.
It's not there, it doesn'texist.
It's El Dorado.
You're never going to find it.
So you have to think aboutwhat's right for me now, what's
right for my students right nowand I guarantee every single
(22:50):
teacher listening to thisthere's someone somewhere out
there who's got an idea thatmight help you.
So the more you connect this iswhy I love linkedin, honestly.
I know I post, but I usuallypost kind of sitting on a train
in the morning and it's thereading of it, it's the other
ideas that come back.
That's where the benefit is.
On socials meetups, teachermeets, all of these sorts of
things.
And people say, oh, if I go toa conference?
(23:12):
I mean, I'm not a bigconference fan, frankly.
So I think there's lots ofpeople standing up and giving
sermons about how great thisthing is.
On, by the way, it only costsyou 9999 pounds person.
But the interactions you have,you know, go to a conference,
don't go into the play talks,don't talk to people, because I
guarantee you in thoseinteractions with other teachers
, you're going to get fantasticideas and you'll meet fantastic
(23:36):
people.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I don't think I've yet met a teacher I you know I
couldn't kind of get on with orsee kind of how they were doing
kind of brilliant work yeah, andI also wanted to touch on
something that you talked aboutin terms of when a student uses
it and they use it in the wrongway, there is this risk of
cognitive decline that you knowthey become over reliant.
(24:00):
How are schools because you'releading a school how are schools
going to be able to manage theuse?
Because they might be able toblock it at school, but they
can't block it, block it.
So what are we doing?
I'd be controversial go on okay.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So the reality is that there are going to be two
kinds of users of ai withinschools.
And there are going to be userswho help use ai to help them
understand and get better atwhat they do and how they
understand the thing, andthey're going to be people who
use AI to do their homework andturn stuff in.
The people who use it to helpthem understand and use it in
the right way, they're going togo higher and higher and higher
(24:37):
and higher.
The people who use it just toturn stuff in are going to
stagnate.
We are self-interestedcreatures as humans.
This is why AI is like thisbuffet of free information.
You know fast food, we havefast facts.
You know, type it in there, yougo bang.
(24:57):
I've got an essay on the Tokyoincident in medieval Japan.
But if you can get people tounderstand the difference
between doing it this way anddoing it this way, then you're
going to plug into the selfinterest of both the students
and the parents, because we, asteachers, have them for those
kind of six or seven hours a day, but parents who can talk to
them at home and can see whatthey're doing are going to be
able to help reinforce thatmessage.
(25:17):
So I think it's about you know.
I mean, that's one way of doing.
It is is really kind of hittingthe self-interest of the
students and helping themunderstand that eventually doing
it in this way is going to getyou the great grades, the great
outcomes and, you know, notnecessarily even to university,
but beyond and further.
You're going to actuallyunderstand yourself in the world
(25:38):
a hell of a lot better than theperson who decided that they
were just going to ask chat gtpto do their math and work yeah,
I was on um, on Dubai Eye,talking about great inflation
today.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I mean, by the time this comes out, that might have
been a week or more ago.
But one of the questions thepresenter was asking me was why
do I think that there is greatinflation in certain schools?
And I said you know, you'rereally asking the wrong question
.
What you should be asking iswhy are the exams that the
(26:13):
students are taking so highstakes at this point?
Why are we waiting two yearsfor them to sit down and put on
paper knowledge that they'vegained, or content let's call it
content content that they'vegained over the last two years?
Why are we asking them toregurgitate content?
(26:34):
It's not an application ofcontent, it's regurgitation.
And then she said oh, it'sbecause the universities require
it.
And I go.
That's the problem.
The problem is the universitiesrequire them to have these
grades, to come and take coursesthat will then ask them to do
(26:55):
what?
Learn more information, to spitit back out.
So where does it end?
And I kind of think the tail iswagging the dog.
As they always say, what can bedone?
And I don't know.
We can't answer that, but Ijust thought of it when you
talked about people who wouldjust get the thing to spit out
the answer.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
I think there's something that you can play with
as school leaders and this issomething I tell the team as
well is what we need to startwith is great teaching.
We have to be absolutelybrilliant teachers.
Grades will take care ofthemselves, and so I encourage
everybody to focus onunderstanding, to focus on
ensuring the students have anunderstanding of what they're
doing, why they're doing it andrather than kind of rope
(27:37):
learning.
There are many systems acrossthe world that you veer into
rope learning, but there aremany systems now that are really
pushing this other side.
So ib, which is what we do, isone of them.
So the application side of theskill is something that's
rewarded far higher at IB thanit suppose.
It's the slicing of the gordianknot and I don't see we have
(28:12):
many leaders around the worldwho want to do that or it's
pressure over time, and it'sthat eventual pressure over time
that then cracks the cracks thestone and sets the monkey free.
I don't know.
Sorry, I'm using asianmetaphors suddenly.
Anyway, you know what I'mtalking about here's a question
for you.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
You, because I know we've talked the AI and I'm kind
of.
You know, you get to thatsaturation point with AI where,
like, okay, I'm all AI-ed out,now I cannot do one more talking
point on AI and yes, it's hereto stay, we get it.
But what else should we befocusing on as we go into this
(28:49):
new academic year?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I mean for me, I think internationalism and
globalism and understanding theworld in a broader sense, I
think is a really important partof our role today.
I think it's vaguely connectedto what we were talking about in
terms of AIF, but in terms ofwhat people are digesting in
their mass media and their newsfeeds and their social media, I
think being able to haveconversations, honest, open
(29:13):
conversations, kind of chathamhouse rules conversations almost
with young people about what'sgoing on in the world and what
they think about it, I think isincredibly important and it's
becoming more and more difficultto do because people are coming
at especially young people 16to 18, you know, in fact,
younger 13 plus are coming atproblems with very entrenched
views that need to be challenged.
(29:35):
I'm not saying that I need totell people what to think.
I just want to make sure peopleknow how to think and and
that's the key thing, for Ithink for most education is
helping young people to thinkthrough what's happening, both
immediately, where they aretheir immediate context, their
local context, the nationalcontext and the international
context.
I think you can rattle off anumber of issues happening
(29:58):
around the world that, whilethey don't immediately affect
them, they are symptomatic ofthings that may, and I think
it's really important for them,whichever political side you
fall on, when, yeah, some ofthese in my mind are just, it's
a slam dunk this is right, thisis wrong.
I'm not going to get into thatnow.
(30:19):
This is not a moment for me totalk about politics, but I think
for teachers, wherever we aresitting down and helping a young
person understand where theyare and what they think, I think
is both a responsibility butalso a massive privilege for
teachers.
I think that, for me, is kindof quite foremost in my mind,
especially because, as aninternational school, we have
(30:40):
students from around the worldand this is where it comes from.
I think, for me, they need tocome to a safe space, so they
need to come to a space wherepeople can express their opinion
and they can express theiropinion and both are treated
with respect and understandingand then discussion, but at no
point is anybody made to feelthat they have been kind of
pushed to one side.
I think that's really reallyimportant.
(31:01):
I think another thing that'sfor me, I suppose, kind of from
that internationalism side, itmoves into things like dei, so
which I will get into politicsnow.
I've seen this be pushed to oneside in America, for example,
which, on top of the issues withAmerican universities, has seen
a decline in the number ofpeople applying to American
(31:21):
universities from overseas awhole other issue.
But it's like that conversationwith someone in a bar Are you a
feminist?
And the person scoffs at you.
Well, why do you say that?
Well, do you believe ininequality?
Well, yeah, of course I do.
Well, okay, so let's have aconversation about it.
Diversity x Inclusion I think,again, it's kind of a field
(31:43):
covered with landmines, becausepeople are often unsure how to
tread and how to work withpeople from different
backgrounds.
But, no matter what, it's ourresponsibility as educators to
use these ideas, to move itforward and to create a safe
space for young people, nomatter their views, no matter
their race, ethnicity, religion,views, orientation Couldn't
(32:07):
give a monkey's.
My job is that young person satin front of me.
Orientation Couldn't give amonkey's.
My job is that young person satin front of me.
And I think that as well in theworld we're seeing, I think is
going to become more importantas we progress, especially as it
all ties in, I suppose, to theissues of media saturation, ai
saturation and so on.
So those are things that I'mthinking about anyway.
(32:29):
And then there's I meanuniversity applications.
Oh my God, should we talk aboutthat?
What on earth is going on?
So I mean America.
The administration is possibly,you know, doing untold damage
to its fantastic educationalbrands across America.
People are not applying.
The UK emitting more localstudents than ever before, so
(32:52):
the numbers are up.
So we don't know what's goingon there.
So the model of predictedgrades is now, well, for the uk
especially, is all up in the air.
What does that mean forpredicted grades?
How do we then judge that whenwe're helping students apply via
ucas?
So there's so much that's kindof bubbling up and I think
there's a great deal ofuncertainty.
(33:12):
Don't get me wrong.
The guys at UCAS, who are acharity I think they're a
charity or public body, they'republic.
I think, yeah, love them, lovethem to bits.
I went to the UCAS conference,international One in Edinburgh
this year, met loads of them.
I think they're fantastic.
I think they do a great job invery difficult circumstances,
but it's getting theuniversities, ucas and everyone
(33:34):
else to kind of work togetherand it's not a level playing
field because there's secrets onsecrets, on secrets.
So, for us, trying to help ayoung person fulfill an ambition
like well, just give us thehonest information.
Can we try to help this personfulfill their dream of going
here and doing that?
And it's incredibly difficultand I think that is something
that, as a sixth form collegewhich is effectively what we are
(33:54):
it's what we're going to beworking on this year as well.
So, for us, the very firstperson they hear from, apart
from me, when they come into thecollege is a director of
university admissions, becauseit's a two-year sprint when
you're doing IB.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, I though, because I read the news article
that talked about the amount ofstudents that have signed up to
go to university this year andhow high the number has been in
the UK, and I'm like it's notwhat I expected.
If I'm honest, I actuallyexpected the opposite.
I wonder what's keeping thosenumbers high.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
What it universities are packing them in because
they're underfunded and thepublic bodies they rely on on
tuition fees to ensure theirinstitutional sustainability.
My prediction for the nextthree years is we'll see
universities merge, um, becausethey won't be able to sustain
themselves, especially, yeah,the smaller ones that have you
(34:48):
may be arrived in the last kindof 20, 30 years, or the
specialist ones will be kind ofwoven into larger institutions.
I think it's almost inevitable,because we're going back to in
the uk anyway, going back towhatever.
It was tony blair when hepushed the idea of 50 of people
going to university.
I remember that, yeah, butthat's great, but okay, is it
(35:09):
sustainable?
Does it actually fill a need inthe country?
What is it you're actuallyoffering these people?
Because you're not sending twoand a half million kids off to
study classics every year?
These are individuals and it'sone of the things I really get
to my goat about governmentpolicy when they talk about
universities like the one giantblob and it's not.
Every single student I've evertaught is an individual and they
(35:31):
are important and they areamazing and they deserve better
and to be lumped in with this,you know, with a government
statistic, and so thinking aboutwhat is they want to get out of
their further education?
Providing something that'suseful for them, that is fit for
purpose, I think, is theresponsibility of government,
responsibility of theinstitutions that are still and
(35:52):
I still say this I think Britishuniversities offer probably,
pound for pound, the bestuniversity education in the
world, and I think it's true.
I would put the top 10universities in the UK up
against any other top 10universities anywhere, and I
think they really do an amazingjob and they teach brilliantly
(36:12):
and they're fantastic research.
And what are we doing is a youknow for the brits or this thing
, I suppose.
What are we doing?
It's?
I think it's a bit of a messand it's something that worries
me about the students I havejoining us now, in two years.
How am I going to help them getto the place they really want
to go to do the thing theyreally want to do?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, big question.
Apart from that, you're aboutto head back into school.
We're already in staff andstudents going next week.
What are you excited about?
Oh, everything.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I love it.
I absolutely love it.
It's the best job in the world.
I mean, teaching is literallythe best job in the world.
You get to be in a situationwhere anything you do or say can
change the way a young personsees themselves or sees the
world.
You can help someone fulfilltheir ambitions.
You know it's kind of make awish.
You know where.
That's what we're there for.
(37:05):
Our job is to take these youngpeople and help them achieve
those ambitions.
I think it's a brilliant,brilliant job.
I mean I still teach as well,so I I'm still in the classroom,
so I teach our history courseat the college, and for me that
is a great opportunity as well,because it means I get to know
the kids.
I get to understand as well forthe college what's going right
(37:26):
and what I'm messing up, becauseyou know, if we're going to be
completely honest and open andfrank, we always make mistakes,
and if I haven't made at leasttwo mistakes by the time I have
my second cup of coffee, thenit's been a really good day, and
so it's.
It's being connected and Ithink what I'm excited about I
think the relationships that youbuild every year with new
people, new team members, thepeople that you've been working
(37:48):
with that you love and trustbecause they are I mean, I'm
working with some of the bestpeople I've ever worked with.
Honestly, they are absolutelyamazing educators and they
really not only understand theresponsibility of education, but
they love it as well.
I think that's what, when we'relooking for people that are
coming in, we're really lookingfor people when we hire into the
(38:10):
college that character ofpeople who get up in the morning
and go, yeah, this is going tobe cool.
I want people who are going todo something mad.
I want people who are going toexcite the students.
I want people who are going totake an impromptu field trip to
Toledo.
I want people who are going toblow up the chemistry lab,
because through that I mean notliterally behind me, but it's
through that that you get theexperiences for the students
(38:34):
that they, you know they learntogether.
And I think my my bestexperience in the classroom last
year was I was teachingpossibly the most boring lesson
I've ever managed to teach.
I I don't know what I wasgetting wrong.
I was getting it was so wrongand they weren't understanding
it and I was like I'm notexplaining this very well, and
then one of the students startedtalking to the other ones it
(38:55):
was kind of like this and they,oh okay.
And then someone else turned toher and said so, and then two
more people turned to her andthen I sat down and this student
just took over the class andstarted teaching how she
understood it, and I thoughtthat's brilliant.
That's how I'm going to do itnext time, because that's what
(39:17):
you do You're there to helpother people learn, but as
teachers, we're all lifelonglearners and I think every day
you're learning something inclass.
I think there are two moments inteaching that are really
important.
The first is when you realiseyou know you're not the smartest
person in the room, and thesecond is when you realize you
never were, and it's about thentaking all these different ideas
and bringing them together, andby the end of any lesson, they
(39:41):
should feel stronger, andteachers should feel stronger as
well, because you're learningfrom them as you go.
Yeah, but not by romantic, Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
No, I think you're right.
I think you are very right.
I do think it is the greatestjob in the world.
And then people are going to belike, if it's so great, why did
you leave and don't become ajournalist?
But you do go through phases inlife and I do think what I do
is tantamount to teaching aswell.
We're at the tail end of thepodcast.
(40:10):
How can people find you, barry,if they want to connect chat,
you know?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
I make coffee?
Um, yeah, it's.
Um, no, I'm.
I'm on linkedin.
I'll always answer kind ofrequest to connect, always happy
to chat.
I'm very happy to chat.
People want to kind of, youknow, just yell at each other
about ai and what are we goingto do.
But yeah, I'm very, veryinterested in connecting with
people.
We're kind of growing ourproject here in spain so we're
(40:36):
also, over time, we'll belooking at, you know, bringing
people, more people, on board.
So if people are ever thoughtabout shifting tack and moving
to sunny madrid, let me knowyou're not using this podcast to
recruit barry.
That is I'm using it to to meetnew people and to explore new
ideas.
But you are a teacher.
Let's just rewind a little bitand go back to I.
(40:57):
You know I read your stuff.
This is every single thing I'veever read from you always
sounds to me like a teacher iswriting it, no matter what.
So I don't think you everstopped being a teacher once
you've done it for even for fiveminutes.
My mate, who became a policeofficer he didn't stop being a
teacher.
He spent 10 years in the force,moved to America.
He's become a teacher again.
(41:17):
It never leaves you.
It never leaves you.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
It's in your blood.
It's in your blood.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
So, people, if you want to connect with Barry, he
is on LinkedIn.
Talk about LinkedIn.
I'm trying to get moreeducators across the region to
get onto LinkedIn.
Some people find it cringe.
I like it because I've, youknow, curated a nice community
on there, but I encourage them,barry, encourage them Absolutely
(41:45):
cringe.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
I think it can be the most cringe-inducing experience
of your life if you end up kindof just following all of these,
you know tech bros or whateverbros up, kind of just following
all of these, you know tech brosor whatever bros insert kind of
adjective here, bro, who wantto sell you lots of things, or
the humble brags, or you knowit's like I'm pleased to
announce oh, spare me, no, stopit.
But if you kind of pick thepeople that you're interested in
(42:10):
, you'll find, find people onthere.
I follow marketers who talkabout marketing in a really
interesting way.
I follow anthropologists.
I follow philosophers.
I follow people who run theirown businesses.
For me it was reallyinteresting to follow different
kinds of careers people who arelawyers, people who are in
finance, if that's what you'reinterested in.
For me I'm interested in whatare all these industries doing
(42:32):
so I can better advise the youngpeople I've got in my care.
I think you know my posts.
I mean I just I write whateverI'm thinking about during the
day, so I'll I'll put stuff out,and I might put stuff out for a
couple of weeks on philosophyand ai.
Or I might start talking aboutthe importance of art.
I might start talking aboutwhat we're doing at the college
(42:52):
or interesting ideas, or oftenI'll go through a phase of just
reposting stuff that people areputting out there.
What I do find as well is oftenpeople will repost articles
that are actually quiteinteresting.
So if you've got a kind of acohort of teachers that you
follow, people will repost thesearticles.
I've I pick these up quiteoften from different.
It's like, oh, hello, didn'trealize that, fantastic.
And you start to pick up this.
You know it's like aninformation hello, didn't
realize that, fantastic.
And you start to pick up this.
(43:13):
You know it's like aninformation feed.
And as well, if you've got acollection of people that you're
connected with, who you thinkin the same way or part of the
same industry, then you'resuddenly starting to see
connections where you didn'trealize there were connections.
And for those people who arelooking at I'm not trying to
pick people up for jobs in Spain, I promise no.
But if people are interested init, especially for people who
(43:36):
might not be in the UAE, who arelistening to this follow
teachers in the UAE to see whatthey're doing as long as they're
not posting about brunchesevery Sunday but follow people
who are there, who are doingfantastic jobs in the UAE or in
the wider GCC area or in Europeor in China, or the amazing
schools that are now opening inAfrica.
(43:57):
So the world is your oyster asan educator at the moment.
I think it's a really excitingtime to be a young educator
because there are internationalschools kind of bursting out all
over the place.
Brighton College has just goneinto Vietnam, charterhouse has
opened in Nigeria and LagosRugby is opening in Lagos.
Wellington is opening in Lagos.
(44:18):
So Nigeria, a country I visiteda couple of times, loves some
jollof rice and it's a fantastic.
I mean, it's a fantasticcountry.
It's a fantastic country with afantastic culture and heritage.
And you know, one of the firstbooks I ever read from a non
kind ofative English speaker wasChinua Achebe, and I read
Things Fall Apart in 1991 orsomething or before that, and
(44:42):
it's eye-opening.
And all of these things are nowopen to young teachers who are
interested in exploring wherethe teaching might take them.
So I think the world is thereon social media, whichever
social media you use, but youhave to have your bs detector
out, yeah, because there's a lotof it so, and with ai there's a
(45:05):
lot more oh my word, so many airesponses and ai comments and I
was like why?
why are you doing this?
I back to this whole idea ofmetrics.
It's like why do you want loadsand loads of followers?
It doesn't mean anything.
What I'm really interested inis having a conversation.
I think that's what mosteducators are interested in too.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
So get on guys, Get going and become a part of the
community and block the cringy,the cringy stuff.
There is a block way.
There's a block button.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Oh, liberal use of the block button.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I am a big fan of the block button yeah, thank you so
much for being on the podcast,barry thank you and I offer my
apologies.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I didn't really mean to try and hire people through
your book.
I'm now really good, stop, stop, I'm just.
It's a.
It's a real privilege to be onyour podcast.
Yeah, as I said before, you'reyou're one of the people that
whenever you post, I do notscroll past.
I do.
I read everything you put out,so it's a real pleasure to have
a conversation with you likewise.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Thank you so much.
You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast
connecting, developing andempowering educators.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey everyone, this is Lisa Grace and this is take two
.
By the way, I just tried torecord without even checking
what season we're in.
Guys, we are in season six ofthe Teach Middle East podcast.
Welcome, welcome to a newacademic year, Welcome to a new
season of the podcast, withamazing guests lined up more
(00:40):
amazing than I deserve and Ithink it just keeps getting
better and better.
I have with me Barry Cooper, bythe way.
Barry's got like a whole middlename going on situation there.
It's Barry Anthony Cooper.
He is the founding principal ofthe Global College and we're
(01:00):
going to chat unscripted todayabout what we need to be
focusing on as educators as wego into this new academic year.
So Barry doesn't even know thetitle of the podcast.
That is how cryptic I have been,ladies and gentlemen, because
I'm thinking you know what.
I don't want robots on thispodcast.
(01:21):
I want to add value and I don'twant people going off and
rehearsing some gibberish tocome and spit at me and spit at
you, my wonderful listeners.
By the way, before I evencalled Barry in, I have to say
you guys have been phenomenal.
Rashid, who is our editor andpodcast statistician, big word
(01:43):
actually came back and said weare now at 37 and a half
thousand subscribers.
So talk to me about how muchyou guys have made me so happy
with that number.
I can't imagine that manypeople listening to me droning
on in their ears, but I thankyou, I thank you, I thank you.
(02:03):
Thank you, Barry.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Welcome to the podcast thank you very much and
it's actually a real pleasurefor me to be here, because
obviously I've read your stuffand I've listened to the podcast
and seen kind of your posts onsocial media.
So I was quite chuffed when yousaid, hey, do you fancy coming
on?
And I did, of course, to get toask, oh, what are we talking
about?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
so yeah, let's go for it so here's the thing with the
podcast and with the peoplethat I try to reach out to and
talk to.
I want to get their views, Iwant to get their insights on
what we need to be thinkingabout in education, and I follow
you on LinkedIn particularly,and I read your stuff.
(02:42):
There are people that whentheir posts come up on LinkedIn,
I don't scroll and I do scrollpast others.
I'm sorry, I'm human, you knowthe scroll is real, but I do
stop and read and I love thefact that you tackle some of the
bigger questions in educationand I also love the fact that
you're coming from a learningperspective, and I also love the
fact that you're coming from alearning perspective, not an
(03:05):
I-know-everything kind ofperspective.
So I love that.
Barry, tell me a little bitabout you, because I know you
did a stint in Dubai, so I wantyou to take me back and give me
a quick career profile.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
How far back do I go?
Ok, a long time ago, in a partof East London far, far away, I
thought I was going to be apriest.
Far away, I thought I was goingto be a priest and then I
thought I was going to be asoldier.
This is my uncle's professionand my father's profession, so
it kind of this is how we, howwe roll who's the priest?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
who's the soldier?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
uh, my, my uncle was a priest and my father was a
soldier, briefly.
And then, yeah, he, he waspensioned out on an injury and
then I went to university.
I loved studying and I madethat mistake that we all do when
we come out of university andthink money and the city and
banking.
And I dove into a job in thecity and I hated it from day one
(03:53):
.
Oh my word, I was clawing, Iwas tunnelling, it was can I get
over the wire?
Can I get under the gate?
Anything I could do to get out.
And a friend of mine who wasleaving teaching because it
wasn't for him to go and becomequite a successful police
officer actually he worked inthe flying squad I said, look, I
reckon you should think aboutteaching.
Okay, I'll give it a go.
(04:14):
So I thought about it.
I talked to some people andthen I got this part-time role
at Epsom College in the South ofEngland, on the condition that
they trained me up.
And so I was part of the GTP,which was the thing that came
before Teach First, and I did myqualifications there and it was
great, it was amazing, it wasbrilliant, because I got to
learn from this brilliant groupof people.
(04:35):
So I shared classrooms withJames Postle, for example.
I shared a classroom with him.
He is a really successfuldirector of admissions is I
think he's stepping back fromthat now.
I shared a classroom with a guycalled murray todd who's now
the head of wellington in india.
I learned from a guy calledalan scatting, who's the head of
the department, and I just Ilearned, I learned, and I
learned as a young guy and thisis the whole thing for me is
(04:56):
teaching and being in a schoolfor me has always been about me
learning and then me trying togive that back as much as I can.
And so I did Epsom and thenmoved to Scotland with my wife
for 10 years and did everysingle job you can in the school
apart from being head.
So I was the director ofadmissions, I was director of
marketing, I was the academicdirector, and then we wanted an
(05:17):
adventure and moving overseas.
So we did three years inShanghai with Wellington,
shanghai, which is amazing, andthen helped open Brighton
College, dubai, with MarcoLongmore, who's an amazing guy,
absolutely brilliant head,really fantastic leader.
And then this opportunityopened up in Madrid and during
COVID we were thinking can weget back a bit closer to home
(05:40):
and my wife, being far smarterthan me, speaks Spanish and it
was kind of an opportunity forthe family.
So we up sticks just at the endof lockdown, came to Madrid and,
working with the team behindthe global college kind of
worked to get it off the groundand we opened in 2022.
So we've just had our secondcohort through.
So we're a 16 to 18 school, sowe just do the IB diploma at the
(06:04):
moment and we've just had oursecond cohort through.
I'm really proud of them.
I'm going to make a point ofnot talking about stats at all,
because I think it's all aboutthe individual and there's some
great kids who are going off todo really interesting things and
I'm very, very happy for them.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So the Global College is just for post-16?
.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
At the moment we're IB Diploma, so obviously we're a
startup school.
So we decided, instead ofstarting at the younger end, we
would start at the older end andsee how that developed.
So it's an ongoing project.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
OK, so you're going to build and go down the year
groups as you build that name.
What's behind it?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
the Global College that name what's behind it, the
Global College.
That was when I arrived, butthe thinking behind it was
really to try and be asinternational as possible.
So we're in Madrid and we, veryspecifically, we intentionally
ensure that at least 50% of ourcohort are from overseas.
So we're not Spanish.
So in Madrid you'll finddifferent types of school and
(07:04):
the international slash privateschools.
You'll find different types ofschool and the international
slash private schools.
It's a half and half often.
So you often find it's verydominated by overseas or it's
very dominated by Spanish, andso we wanted to try and have
that global mindset aboutinternationalism but also to,
you know, walk the walk and makesure that we were bringing the
Spanish of the Spanish school,but also bringing the
(07:25):
internationalism and theglobalism to a global school.
So that's where it came about.
It's kind of a name that wasdesigned to be an intention,
almost.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
So tell me what are some of the unique things that
you guys are doing there thatyou think is worth talking about
.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
The unique things we do.
We've got this greatrelationship with IE University.
So if anyone your listenerswill probably know about IE.
So I started life as a businessschool, is now a full-club
university, has a verticalcampus in Madrid, fantastic
place run by a really energisedteam that I really get on with.
I was fortunate, they werequite nice and they put me on
their advisory board forheadmasters.
(08:01):
I think it's because we have arelationship and I was down the
road.
But there's some reallyfantastic people like Miguel
Costa, who runs admissions, markHurtado these people who are
really kind of driving afantastic university.
Now, with them, we run anentrepreneurship program.
So we kill the timetable for,in total, probably about seven
(08:23):
or eight days during the courseof the first year for our dp1s
and the idea is to get themconnected with university
professors who come in becauseit's ie and it's business and
it's entrepreneurship.
You know they do this all thetime and they give us this crash
course in entrepreneurship forour dp1s.
And when we talked about thisand we were setting this up, we
(08:43):
said we don't want this to beabout the next Bill Gates and
the next Steve Jobs or whatever.
We want it to be about the realimportance of our
entrepreneurship, things likeproblem spotting, problem
solving, ideation, teamwork,communication, all these sorts
of things.
So it's as valuable to someonewho wants to be a doctor as it
is to someone who wants to goand study business or economics
(09:06):
at LSE.
So we really wanted to focus inon the skills, and the team are
absolutely amazing, and what wedo is we take the kids on that
journey all the way to the pointwhere they have to pitch an
idea and they have semifinalsand then they have finals.
So there's a great Googlecampus here in Madrid and we
take that over for the afternoonand we get our finalists up on
(09:27):
stage, we have someone come inas a guest judge and then the
winners I think actually thisyear was the top two get to
pitch at the equivalent at ieuniversity and they usually hold
their own.
So it's about encouraging skilldevelopment, encouraging the
idea of entrepreneurship, whichI think is a really important
part of moving forward in ourmodern world, and also getting
(09:50):
the kids doing something out ofthe box and doing something
difficult and getting them tostruggle, because sometimes it
can be all about let's do therope learning, let's do the math
problem.
No, no, no, no, no.
I want you to go.
Start me a business about rideshare, go.
So it's something different forthem to do.
That's one thing.
How many things am I allowedthat I'm proud of Go ahead with
(10:10):
at least?
another one, I think something Ireally love is that we've
really worked hard to encouragea collegiate sense of agency for
our students and for our, youknow, the team members, and for
the parents as well.
So there's this constantconversation and we work on that
process, that idea of alwaystrying to find a way to say yes.
(10:31):
So if a student or a colleaguecomes to me and says, hey, I've
got this idea, it's a bit mad,but my first instinct is always
right okay, let's keep sayingyes until it becomes obvious
this isn't the right thing to do.
And I think from that we've hadsome really interesting
projects, both kind of staffdriven, where they take hold of
their own interests, and we haveprojects that you know
(10:52):
obviously involve the studentsbut more importantly the
students, where we've had peopleset up their own charity, set
up their own social movement.
We've got a school charitythat's now in its third year
that's being handed down fromthe very first year, that works
on food and resource collectionfor natural disasters.
So you may have, you know, wehad something here in valencia.
Previous to that there was theearthquake in morocco.
(11:13):
So it was these things that thechildren really wanted to get
involved with, but verystudent-led.
And, you know, for us as a team, we tried to take a step back
and be that safety net to say,ok, you've run into a problem,
let's talk it through.
But I think that idea is notmetricised I can't measure it
but trying to really fosterstudent agency and I think
(11:33):
that's something everyone buysinto.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I love the fact that you guys do that whole
entrepreneurship piece.
I was talking this summer to afriend of mine about, obviously,
exams and his child does notwant to go to university.
He actually wants to become afarmer and the dad is like.
The dad told me of all thepeople in the world that she was
(11:55):
like can you talk some senseinto him?
And I was like, technically Idon't think I'm the right person
.
Because if he's really sureabout what he wants to do as it
relates to farming and he reallydoes have a plan and he's not
using it as an excuse to skiveoff, I would say to you let him
(12:16):
go do some courses inagriculture.
Use that university money thatyou've saved up to give him a
head start.
Maybe lease him a piece ofproperty, help him buy some
equipment if he has a solid plan, because in the end he could go
back and study at universitylater on when he's made his
(12:37):
money or he's done what he wantsto do, or he could just never
go back and be an absolute smashhit success.
It really is about getting tothe bottom of who he is as an
individual and what he aspiresto do, not the whole cliche go
to school, go to university,because that's what I did as a
(13:01):
parent.
So, yeah, I love that wholeentrepreneurship piece, because
some students might, throughyour program, discover, hey, do
I really want to continue thisor do I want to now go off and
really do that idea that I'vehad?
And when you hear from lots ofentrepreneurs, they dropped out
of school I'm not advocatingthat hello, but if that's your
(13:24):
path, that's your path.
I want to shift gears, though.
This is the start of a newacademic year.
You are ahead, and the wholepodcast is about what we need to
be mindful of as we are goinginto this new shift, this new
year.
What are some of the and I wantyour top three.
You're speaking to educators,you're speaking to school
(13:44):
leaders, and I want your topthree.
You're speaking to educators.
You're speaking to schoolleaders.
What do they need to be mindfulof going?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
into this new year.
Well, I would never presume tolecture anybody about what I
think they should be doing.
I think every single context isdifferent.
I think every single school isdifferent.
I can tell you what I'mfocusing on and then people can
take kind of that not as aschool, as individual.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
So you're not lecturing, you're saying in my
opinion, this is what I thinkneeds.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, all right.
So my opinion I think the bigticket item at the moment is AI.
I think that's the big ticketitem.
That's what I'm focusing on.
It's day one with the team.
I'm going to be talking aboutit next week.
Day one with the students.
A week after that, I'm going tobe talking about it with them,
(14:32):
about how we use it, how weunderstand it, how we see it,
both in the short, medium andthe long term, and how to do two
things, I think one, maximizethe benefit for them and two,
avoid them falling into thetraps that I think it is laying
for us and it's laying foreducators.
It's laying quite a few.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
What are those traps?
Don't move, stay with it, stickwith it.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Okay, what are those traps?
I think the traps.
They're how do I describe them?
Cognitive.
So it's about thinking.
I think one of the biggestissues we have as an industry in
terms of teaching is we've beenmetricised both by groups
owning schools who areinterested in the bottom line,
by governments who areinterested in the statistics to
(15:16):
prove that they're better thanthe people who came before them.
So, numbers, numbers, numbers,metrics, metrics, metrics.
What matters to the people whoare pulling all these strings at
the is the, the things that youcan show for what you do, for
the people in the classroom.
What we're really interested inis does you know little jenny
or little timmy understand moretoday than they did yesterday?
(15:38):
Now, with ai, we have thisfantastic opportunity for young
people to get great grades, dotheir homework, push ideas, just
produce, produce, produce,produce, produce.
It's a trap that we can fallinto to just deliver and hand
over a thing, to get a mark, tomove on to the next stage of our
(15:58):
lives.
And that is a trap both in theimmediate term, because once you
get there you're not going toknow what you're doing, and in
the long term, in terms of theeroding of our way of educating,
and there's lots of people thatare talking about this.
It's a very great broad space.
I think what we have to bemindful of is how we encourage
understanding in our students,how we encourage thought in our
(16:21):
students.
What do you think should be theone and only question that we
ask our students?
Not where's your essay, butwhat do you think about this
subject?
What do you think about thisidea?
How would you take this ideaforward?
I think the issue with AI is itstops conversations, it stops
interactions, and only ininteractions, only with
(16:43):
experience.
Experience only with action,only with questioning.
And this is like.
This is going back to some ofmy favorite philosophers you
know, it's camus and sartre andheidegger, you know.
Can we get to a point wherestudents are really grasping the
nettle and grasping the ideasthat they have in front of them?
If we step away from that, ifwe go and I get emails every day
(17:05):
about AI, this and AI, that andthis will improve, go away.
What we want to be able to do iswe want students to understand
where they were, where they are,how they got there, and it's
through the doing, it's throughthe struggle.
And if they're not strugglingand they're not learning through
that struggle, then what'shappening is we're absolving the
responsibility to do.
We're absolving theresponsibility to do, we're
(17:26):
absolving the decision-making.
It's like going to a restaurantand asking your date what you
should have.
Sorry, no, you have to do thething.
Ask her what she likes and say,oh, I kind of like that as well
.
What do you think I might like?
If I like this and this, youcan have a conversation with AI.
You can use it as a facilitator, you can use it as a
collaborator on your project.
(17:47):
But if you for a second handover to these AI tools you're
prerogative to have thosethoughts then we're running into
some dangerous ground.
So that's a very kind of youknow.
I've been doing a lot of readingabout this this summer to try
and figure out what I think youknow in that Schopenhauer way.
It's like I'm writing a book,so I know what I think.
If you know what you think,write your own book.
(18:09):
But I think it's reallyimportant for us to, as we go
into the new year, encouragethought, encourage critical
thinking, encourage philosophy,encourage reading, encourage
history, encourage geography,encourage politics, encourage
people to look around.
I think in the uae especially,you have an amazing opportunity
because there are 200 differentnationalities that live in the
(18:29):
uae.
You have every singleopportunity to go and talk to
someone from azerbaijan orkazakhstan or peru or, you know,
north macedonia, wherever itmay be.
You have this chance to saywhat's it like there, tell me
about you, and to build thoseconnections, collaborations
because that's what a school isis a collection of relationships
(18:49):
, and I think the more we buildon that idea, the better we're
going to be able to use the newtechnology that will keep on
coming and it's going to comelike a tidal wave, and the more
tools we have to deal with it,the better we'll be able to deal
with that technology when itgets here and to use it for the
best ends of our students,because I think as teachers,
(19:12):
we're not.
I mean for me, this is why Idon't like talking about stats
or things like that.
I don't really care about thegrades.
I care about how well have Ihelped that student understand
themselves and the world, and Ithink that as a mission
statement for all educators isprobably it's probably intrinsic
in most of us who work inschools.
(19:32):
That's what we really want.
We want them to have that lightbulb moment.
It doesn't matter if it's an Astar or a C.
If it's something that's goneup from where they previously
were, it's a win, with no matterwhat you can tell.
I'm passionate about this,can't you Sorry?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I'm going off on Listen.
I'm here for it, but I need toask you though I hear all the
warnings that you're giving, andI can also hear my listeners in
my head going.
Then how do we implement it?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Absolutely yeah, but that's the really difficult
thing, and that's where it's notdown to one person to tell
everyone what to do.
It's down to teachers talkingto each other and coming up with
ideas.
I think the implementation itwill be an evolving kind of you
know, body of work over thecoming years about how we
implement these ideas, how werelate to technology, how we
(20:23):
work with technology.
I think for us at the college,we work on four principles in
terms of kind of AI.
So you have to understand whatAI is.
So both teachers and studentshave to have an understanding of
what an AI actually is beforeyou start using it.
You have to understand thetopic before you start using it.
So these are, this isprinciples.
This isn't.
(20:44):
You know, you can't legislatethis, you can't punish people
for not doing it, but this iswhat you want them to do.
It has to be used as acollaborator and anything that
comes out of that has to be usedthrough a lens of critical
thought.
So those are our four laws.
So we based them off Asimov'slaws and I've spoken about this
before just in terms of how.
Because you can't legislate thetech, because all of these
companies are giving this to youfor free, which means, sorry,
(21:10):
we're the product, because we'rebuilding this thing for them
with the interaction and witheverything else.
So if you're going to use it,fine, use it, but legislate
yourself and use it within aframework that you know can
protect yourself and can ensurethat you're making headway.
And this is just a startingpoint.
I mean, I would love for peopleto write to me or tell me
actually, you know what, barry,you need to think of this as a
(21:34):
different way, because teachingis a team sport.
I mean, we're all in thisbecause we want kids to get
better, we want kids to succeed.
That's it.
I mean, I don't care if I teachthem or if somebody else
teaches them.
It's still my responsibility.
And if I can help somebody else, fantastic.
I know for a fact 99% ofteachers would turn around and
say, if I can help that guy,yeah, I will.
And any idea is a good idea.
Yeah, there's no such thing asa bad idea.
(21:55):
Yeah, it might not be right.
Then I mean, okay, right, okay,the 0.1% of bad ideas.
But you know what?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I didn't want to interrupt in teaching.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
It might not work then, but it might work with
this, or you know, you have thatother phrase that you always
kick in.
This could work.
If so, you can then moderate itand then you can change it and
you can add to it and or you cantake away from it.
And that's what educators, Ithink, in the coming year, five
years, 10 years, need to be Needto be talking to one another
and need to be collaboratingwith one another.
(22:26):
The more we talk to each otheras educators, the more ideas we
get from one another, the betterthe outcome.
I think what people often lookfor is they look for this
central or single idea, thismagic bullet.
It's not there, it doesn'texist.
It's El Dorado.
You're never going to find it.
So you have to think aboutwhat's right for me now, what's
right for my students right nowand I guarantee every single
(22:50):
teacher listening to thisthere's someone somewhere out
there who's got an idea thatmight help you.
So the more you connect this iswhy I love linkedin, honestly.
I know I post, but I usuallypost kind of sitting on a train
in the morning and it's thereading of it, it's the other
ideas that come back.
That's where the benefit is.
On socials meetups, teachermeets, all of these sorts of
things.
And people say, oh, if I go toa conference?
(23:12):
I mean, I'm not a bigconference fan, frankly.
So I think there's lots ofpeople standing up and giving
sermons about how great thisthing is.
On, by the way, it only costsyou 9999 pounds person.
But the interactions you have,you know, go to a conference,
don't go into the play talks,don't talk to people, because I
guarantee you in thoseinteractions with other teachers
, you're going to get fantasticideas and you'll meet fantastic
(23:36):
people.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I don't think I've yet met a teacher I you know I
couldn't kind of get on with orsee kind of how they were doing
kind of brilliant work yeah, andI also wanted to touch on
something that you talked aboutin terms of when a student uses
it and they use it in the wrongway, there is this risk of
cognitive decline that you knowthey become over reliant.
(24:00):
How are schools because you'releading a school how are schools
going to be able to manage theuse?
Because they might be able toblock it at school, but they
can't block it, block it.
So what are we doing?
I'd be controversial go on okay.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So the reality is that there are going to be two
kinds of users of ai withinschools.
And there are going to be userswho help use ai to help them
understand and get better atwhat they do and how they
understand the thing, andthey're going to be people who
use AI to do their homework andturn stuff in.
The people who use it to helpthem understand and use it in
the right way, they're going togo higher and higher and higher
(24:37):
and higher.
The people who use it just toturn stuff in are going to
stagnate.
We are self-interestedcreatures as humans.
This is why AI is like thisbuffet of free information.
You know fast food, we havefast facts.
You know, type it in there, yougo bang.
(24:57):
I've got an essay on the Tokyoincident in medieval Japan.
But if you can get people tounderstand the difference
between doing it this way anddoing it this way, then you're
going to plug into the selfinterest of both the students
and the parents, because we, asteachers, have them for those
kind of six or seven hours a day, but parents who can talk to
them at home and can see whatthey're doing are going to be
able to help reinforce thatmessage.
(25:17):
So I think it's about you know.
I mean, that's one way of doing.
It is is really kind of hittingthe self-interest of the
students and helping themunderstand that eventually doing
it in this way is going to getyou the great grades, the great
outcomes and, you know, notnecessarily even to university,
but beyond and further.
You're going to actuallyunderstand yourself in the world
(25:38):
a hell of a lot better than theperson who decided that they
were just going to ask chat gtpto do their math and work yeah,
I was on um, on Dubai Eye,talking about great inflation
today.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I mean, by the time this comes out, that might have
been a week or more ago.
But one of the questions thepresenter was asking me was why
do I think that there is greatinflation in certain schools?
And I said you know, you'rereally asking the wrong question
.
What you should be asking iswhy are the exams that the
(26:13):
students are taking so highstakes at this point?
Why are we waiting two yearsfor them to sit down and put on
paper knowledge that they'vegained, or content let's call it
content content that they'vegained over the last two years?
Why are we asking them toregurgitate content?
(26:34):
It's not an application ofcontent, it's regurgitation.
And then she said oh, it'sbecause the universities require
it.
And I go.
That's the problem.
The problem is the universitiesrequire them to have these
grades, to come and take coursesthat will then ask them to do
(26:55):
what?
Learn more information, to spitit back out.
So where does it end?
And I kind of think the tail iswagging the dog.
As they always say, what can bedone?
And I don't know.
We can't answer that, but Ijust thought of it when you
talked about people who wouldjust get the thing to spit out
the answer.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
I think there's something that you can play with
as school leaders and this issomething I tell the team as
well is what we need to startwith is great teaching.
We have to be absolutelybrilliant teachers.
Grades will take care ofthemselves, and so I encourage
everybody to focus onunderstanding, to focus on
ensuring the students have anunderstanding of what they're
doing, why they're doing it andrather than kind of rope
(27:37):
learning.
There are many systems acrossthe world that you veer into
rope learning, but there aremany systems now that are really
pushing this other side.
So ib, which is what we do, isone of them.
So the application side of theskill is something that's
rewarded far higher at IB thanit suppose.
It's the slicing of the gordianknot and I don't see we have
(28:12):
many leaders around the worldwho want to do that or it's
pressure over time, and it'sthat eventual pressure over time
that then cracks the cracks thestone and sets the monkey free.
I don't know.
Sorry, I'm using asianmetaphors suddenly.
Anyway, you know what I'mtalking about here's a question
for you.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
You, because I know we've talked the AI and I'm kind
of.
You know, you get to thatsaturation point with AI where,
like, okay, I'm all AI-ed out,now I cannot do one more talking
point on AI and yes, it's hereto stay, we get it.
But what else should we befocusing on as we go into this
(28:49):
new academic year?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I mean for me, I think internationalism and
globalism and understanding theworld in a broader sense, I
think is a really important partof our role today.
I think it's vaguely connectedto what we were talking about in
terms of AIF, but in terms ofwhat people are digesting in
their mass media and their newsfeeds and their social media, I
think being able to haveconversations, honest, open
(29:13):
conversations, kind of chathamhouse rules conversations almost
with young people about what'sgoing on in the world and what
they think about it, I think isincredibly important and it's
becoming more and more difficultto do because people are coming
at especially young people 16to 18, you know, in fact,
younger 13 plus are coming atproblems with very entrenched
views that need to be challenged.
(29:35):
I'm not saying that I need totell people what to think.
I just want to make sure peopleknow how to think and and
that's the key thing, for Ithink for most education is
helping young people to thinkthrough what's happening, both
immediately, where they aretheir immediate context, their
local context, the nationalcontext and the international
context.
I think you can rattle off anumber of issues happening
(29:58):
around the world that, whilethey don't immediately affect
them, they are symptomatic ofthings that may, and I think
it's really important for them,whichever political side you
fall on, when, yeah, some ofthese in my mind are just, it's
a slam dunk this is right, thisis wrong.
I'm not going to get into thatnow.
(30:19):
This is not a moment for me totalk about politics, but I think
for teachers, wherever we aresitting down and helping a young
person understand where theyare and what they think, I think
is both a responsibility butalso a massive privilege for
teachers.
I think that, for me, is kindof quite foremost in my mind,
especially because, as aninternational school, we have
(30:40):
students from around the worldand this is where it comes from.
I think, for me, they need tocome to a safe space, so they
need to come to a space wherepeople can express their opinion
and they can express theiropinion and both are treated
with respect and understandingand then discussion, but at no
point is anybody made to feelthat they have been kind of
pushed to one side.
I think that's really reallyimportant.
(31:01):
I think another thing that'sfor me, I suppose, kind of from
that internationalism side, itmoves into things like dei, so
which I will get into politicsnow.
I've seen this be pushed to oneside in America, for example,
which, on top of the issues withAmerican universities, has seen
a decline in the number ofpeople applying to American
(31:21):
universities from overseas awhole other issue.
But it's like that conversationwith someone in a bar Are you a
feminist?
And the person scoffs at you.
Well, why do you say that?
Well, do you believe ininequality?
Well, yeah, of course I do.
Well, okay, so let's have aconversation about it.
Diversity x Inclusion I think,again, it's kind of a field
(31:43):
covered with landmines, becausepeople are often unsure how to
tread and how to work withpeople from different
backgrounds.
But, no matter what, it's ourresponsibility as educators to
use these ideas, to move itforward and to create a safe
space for young people, nomatter their views, no matter
their race, ethnicity, religion,views, orientation Couldn't
(32:07):
give a monkey's.
My job is that young person satin front of me.
Orientation Couldn't give amonkey's.
My job is that young person satin front of me.
And I think that as well in theworld we're seeing, I think is
going to become more importantas we progress, especially as it
all ties in, I suppose, to theissues of media saturation, ai
saturation and so on.
So those are things that I'mthinking about anyway.
(32:29):
And then there's I meanuniversity applications.
Oh my God, should we talk aboutthat?
What on earth is going on?
So I mean America.
The administration is possibly,you know, doing untold damage
to its fantastic educationalbrands across America.
People are not applying.
The UK emitting more localstudents than ever before, so
(32:52):
the numbers are up.
So we don't know what's goingon there.
So the model of predictedgrades is now, well, for the uk
especially, is all up in the air.
What does that mean forpredicted grades?
How do we then judge that whenwe're helping students apply via
ucas?
So there's so much that's kindof bubbling up and I think
there's a great deal ofuncertainty.
(33:12):
Don't get me wrong.
The guys at UCAS, who are acharity I think they're a
charity or public body, they'republic.
I think, yeah, love them, lovethem to bits.
I went to the UCAS conference,international One in Edinburgh
this year, met loads of them.
I think they're fantastic.
I think they do a great job invery difficult circumstances,
but it's getting theuniversities, ucas and everyone
(33:34):
else to kind of work togetherand it's not a level playing
field because there's secrets onsecrets, on secrets.
So, for us, trying to help ayoung person fulfill an ambition
like well, just give us thehonest information.
Can we try to help this personfulfill their dream of going
here and doing that?
And it's incredibly difficultand I think that is something
that, as a sixth form collegewhich is effectively what we are
(33:54):
it's what we're going to beworking on this year as well.
So, for us, the very firstperson they hear from, apart
from me, when they come into thecollege is a director of
university admissions, becauseit's a two-year sprint when
you're doing IB.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, I though, because I read the news article
that talked about the amount ofstudents that have signed up to
go to university this year andhow high the number has been in
the UK, and I'm like it's notwhat I expected.
If I'm honest, I actuallyexpected the opposite.
I wonder what's keeping thosenumbers high.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
What it universities are packing them in because
they're underfunded and thepublic bodies they rely on on
tuition fees to ensure theirinstitutional sustainability.
My prediction for the nextthree years is we'll see
universities merge, um, becausethey won't be able to sustain
themselves, especially, yeah,the smaller ones that have you
(34:48):
may be arrived in the last kindof 20, 30 years, or the
specialist ones will be kind ofwoven into larger institutions.
I think it's almost inevitable,because we're going back to in
the uk anyway, going back towhatever.
It was tony blair when hepushed the idea of 50 of people
going to university.
I remember that, yeah, butthat's great, but okay, is it
(35:09):
sustainable?
Does it actually fill a need inthe country?
What is it you're actuallyoffering these people?
Because you're not sending twoand a half million kids off to
study classics every year?
These are individuals and it'sone of the things I really get
to my goat about governmentpolicy when they talk about
universities like the one giantblob and it's not.
Every single student I've evertaught is an individual and they
(35:31):
are important and they areamazing and they deserve better
and to be lumped in with this,you know, with a government
statistic, and so thinking aboutwhat is they want to get out of
their further education?
Providing something that'suseful for them, that is fit for
purpose, I think, is theresponsibility of government,
responsibility of theinstitutions that are still and
(35:52):
I still say this I think Britishuniversities offer probably,
pound for pound, the bestuniversity education in the
world, and I think it's true.
I would put the top 10universities in the UK up
against any other top 10universities anywhere, and I
think they really do an amazingjob and they teach brilliantly
(36:12):
and they're fantastic research.
And what are we doing is a youknow for the brits or this thing
, I suppose.
What are we doing?
It's?
I think it's a bit of a messand it's something that worries
me about the students I havejoining us now, in two years.
How am I going to help them getto the place they really want
to go to do the thing theyreally want to do?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, big question.
Apart from that, you're aboutto head back into school.
We're already in staff andstudents going next week.
What are you excited about?
Oh, everything.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I love it.
I absolutely love it.
It's the best job in the world.
I mean, teaching is literallythe best job in the world.
You get to be in a situationwhere anything you do or say can
change the way a young personsees themselves or sees the
world.
You can help someone fulfilltheir ambitions.
You know it's kind of make awish.
You know where.
That's what we're there for.
(37:05):
Our job is to take these youngpeople and help them achieve
those ambitions.
I think it's a brilliant,brilliant job.
I mean I still teach as well,so I I'm still in the classroom,
so I teach our history courseat the college, and for me that
is a great opportunity as well,because it means I get to know
the kids.
I get to understand as well forthe college what's going right
(37:26):
and what I'm messing up, becauseyou know, if we're going to be
completely honest and open andfrank, we always make mistakes,
and if I haven't made at leasttwo mistakes by the time I have
my second cup of coffee, thenit's been a really good day, and
so it's.
It's being connected and Ithink what I'm excited about I
think the relationships that youbuild every year with new
people, new team members, thepeople that you've been working
(37:48):
with that you love and trustbecause they are I mean, I'm
working with some of the bestpeople I've ever worked with.
Honestly, they are absolutelyamazing educators and they
really not only understand theresponsibility of education, but
they love it as well.
I think that's what, when we'relooking for people that are
coming in, we're really lookingfor people when we hire into the
(38:10):
college that character ofpeople who get up in the morning
and go, yeah, this is going tobe cool.
I want people who are going todo something mad.
I want people who are going toexcite the students.
I want people who are going totake an impromptu field trip to
Toledo.
I want people who are going toblow up the chemistry lab,
because through that I mean notliterally behind me, but it's
through that that you get theexperiences for the students
(38:34):
that they, you know they learntogether.
And I think my my bestexperience in the classroom last
year was I was teachingpossibly the most boring lesson
I've ever managed to teach.
I I don't know what I wasgetting wrong.
I was getting it was so wrongand they weren't understanding
it and I was like I'm notexplaining this very well, and
then one of the students startedtalking to the other ones it
(38:55):
was kind of like this and they,oh okay.
And then someone else turned toher and said so, and then two
more people turned to her andthen I sat down and this student
just took over the class andstarted teaching how she
understood it, and I thoughtthat's brilliant.
That's how I'm going to do itnext time, because that's what
(39:17):
you do You're there to helpother people learn, but as
teachers, we're all lifelonglearners and I think every day
you're learning something inclass.
I think there are two moments inteaching that are really
important.
The first is when you realiseyou know you're not the smartest
person in the room, and thesecond is when you realize you
never were, and it's about thentaking all these different ideas
and bringing them together, andby the end of any lesson, they
(39:41):
should feel stronger, andteachers should feel stronger as
well, because you're learningfrom them as you go.
Yeah, but not by romantic, Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
No, I think you're right.
I think you are very right.
I do think it is the greatestjob in the world.
And then people are going to belike, if it's so great, why did
you leave and don't become ajournalist?
But you do go through phases inlife and I do think what I do
is tantamount to teaching aswell.
We're at the tail end of thepodcast.
(40:10):
How can people find you, barry,if they want to connect chat,
you know?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
I make coffee?
Um, yeah, it's.
Um, no, I'm.
I'm on linkedin.
I'll always answer kind ofrequest to connect, always happy
to chat.
I'm very happy to chat.
People want to kind of, youknow, just yell at each other
about ai and what are we goingto do.
But yeah, I'm very, veryinterested in connecting with
people.
We're kind of growing ourproject here in spain so we're
(40:36):
also, over time, we'll belooking at, you know, bringing
people, more people, on board.
So if people are ever thoughtabout shifting tack and moving
to sunny madrid, let me knowyou're not using this podcast to
recruit barry.
That is I'm using it to to meetnew people and to explore new
ideas.
But you are a teacher.
Let's just rewind a little bitand go back to I.
(40:57):
You know I read your stuff.
This is every single thing I'veever read from you always
sounds to me like a teacher iswriting it, no matter what.
So I don't think you everstopped being a teacher once
you've done it for even for fiveminutes.
My mate, who became a policeofficer he didn't stop being a
teacher.
He spent 10 years in the force,moved to America.
He's become a teacher again.
(41:17):
It never leaves you.
It never leaves you.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
It's in your blood.
It's in your blood.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
So, people, if you want to connect with Barry, he
is on LinkedIn.
Talk about LinkedIn.
I'm trying to get moreeducators across the region to
get onto LinkedIn.
Some people find it cringe.
I like it because I've, youknow, curated a nice community
on there, but I encourage them,barry, encourage them Absolutely
(41:45):
cringe.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
I think it can be the most cringe-inducing experience
of your life if you end up kindof just following all of these,
you know tech bros or whateverbros up, kind of just following
all of these, you know tech brosor whatever bros insert kind of
adjective here, bro, who wantto sell you lots of things, or
the humble brags, or you knowit's like I'm pleased to
announce oh, spare me, no, stopit.
But if you kind of pick thepeople that you're interested in
(42:10):
, you'll find, find people onthere.
I follow marketers who talkabout marketing in a really
interesting way.
I follow anthropologists.
I follow philosophers.
I follow people who run theirown businesses.
For me it was reallyinteresting to follow different
kinds of careers people who arelawyers, people who are in
finance, if that's what you'reinterested in.
For me I'm interested in whatare all these industries doing
(42:32):
so I can better advise the youngpeople I've got in my care.
I think you know my posts.
I mean I just I write whateverI'm thinking about during the
day, so I'll I'll put stuff out,and I might put stuff out for a
couple of weeks on philosophyand ai.
Or I might start talking aboutthe importance of art.
I might start talking aboutwhat we're doing at the college
(42:52):
or interesting ideas, or oftenI'll go through a phase of just
reposting stuff that people areputting out there.
What I do find as well is oftenpeople will repost articles
that are actually quiteinteresting.
So if you've got a kind of acohort of teachers that you
follow, people will repost thesearticles.
I've I pick these up quiteoften from different.
It's like, oh, hello, didn'trealize that, fantastic.
And you start to pick up this.
You know it's like aninformation hello, didn't
realize that, fantastic.
And you start to pick up this.
(43:13):
You know it's like aninformation feed.
And as well, if you've got acollection of people that you're
connected with, who you thinkin the same way or part of the
same industry, then you'resuddenly starting to see
connections where you didn'trealize there were connections.
And for those people who arelooking at I'm not trying to
pick people up for jobs in Spain, I promise no.
But if people are interested init, especially for people who
(43:36):
might not be in the UAE, who arelistening to this follow
teachers in the UAE to see whatthey're doing as long as they're
not posting about brunchesevery Sunday but follow people
who are there, who are doingfantastic jobs in the UAE or in
the wider GCC area or in Europeor in China, or the amazing
schools that are now opening inAfrica.
(43:57):
So the world is your oyster asan educator at the moment.
I think it's a really excitingtime to be a young educator
because there are internationalschools kind of bursting out all
over the place.
Brighton College has just goneinto Vietnam, charterhouse has
opened in Nigeria and LagosRugby is opening in Lagos.
Wellington is opening in Lagos.
(44:18):
So Nigeria, a country I visiteda couple of times, loves some
jollof rice and it's a fantastic.
I mean, it's a fantasticcountry.
It's a fantastic country with afantastic culture and heritage.
And you know, one of the firstbooks I ever read from a non
kind ofative English speaker wasChinua Achebe, and I read
Things Fall Apart in 1991 orsomething or before that, and
(44:42):
it's eye-opening.
And all of these things are nowopen to young teachers who are
interested in exploring wherethe teaching might take them.
So I think the world is thereon social media, whichever
social media you use, but youhave to have your bs detector
out, yeah, because there's a lotof it so, and with ai there's a
(45:05):
lot more oh my word, so many airesponses and ai comments and I
was like why?
why are you doing this?
I back to this whole idea ofmetrics.
It's like why do you want loadsand loads of followers?
It doesn't mean anything.
What I'm really interested inis having a conversation.
I think that's what mosteducators are interested in too.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
So get on guys, Get going and become a part of the
community and block the cringy,the cringy stuff.
There is a block way.
There's a block button.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Oh, liberal use of the block button.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I am a big fan of the block button yeah, thank you so
much for being on the podcast,barry thank you and I offer my
apologies.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I didn't really mean to try and hire people through
your book.
I'm now really good, stop, stop, I'm just.
It's a.
It's a real privilege to be onyour podcast.
Yeah, as I said before, you'reyou're one of the people that
whenever you post, I do notscroll past.
I do.
I read everything you put out,so it's a real pleasure to have
a conversation with you likewise.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Thank you so much.
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