September 28, 2025 • 28 mins
What does it take to rise from teaching assistant to Director of Education? In this candid conversation, Nikki Williams shares her remarkable journey through international education to her current role leading Taleem's educational vision across multiple schools and curricula.
Born into a nomadic life across Southeast Asia and the Middle East due to her father's career in oil and gas, Williams confesses she was never a model student. "Frankly, I couldn't have imagined any profession less likely to be on my CV than education," she reveals with refreshing honesty. Yet this background proved valuable, helping her connect with struggling students when she eventually found her calling in the classroom.
Williams offers practical advice for educators aspiring to leadership positions: show initiative, demonstrate passion, and contribute to the bigger picture. "A lot of times it can be driven by money, and that really can't be your motivator in education," she cautions. Instead, she looks for teachers who proactively share knowledge and take on responsibilities beyond their job description.
The conversation explores the unique challenges women face in educational leadership, with Williams noting how self-criticism and imposter syndrome can hold talented educators back. "You've got to have the courage to step up and put yourself forward and be uncomfortable sometimes in that role," she advises, while celebrating the increasing representation of women in senior positions.
As both a mother and leader, Williams speaks candidly about the emotional reality of having her three children leave home, while reflecting on the privileges of raising a family in the UAE. Her insights on maintaining wellbeing through scheduled self-care and exercise resonate with any busy professional juggling multiple responsibilities.
Perhaps most thought-provoking are Williams' reflections on education's future. She identifies the critical balance between embracing AI and technology while ensuring students develop the soft skills that machines cannot replicate. "Focusing entirely on rote learning and getting exams right is not going to be setting our students up for success," she warns, challenging educators to rethink how we prepare young people for a rapidly evolving world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
You are listening to the Teach Middle East Podcast.
Connecting, developing, andempowering educators.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Hey everyone, Lisa Grace here, welcoming you back
to the Teach Middle Eastpodcast.
Today I am with Nikki Williams,Director of Education for
Taleem.
She is the hardest woman tocatch.
This is now season six.
I have been inviting Nikki sinceseason four.
Welcome to the podcast, Nikki.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
Thank you, and happy to be here.
Thank you for the invitation.
Excited for this.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
Amazing.
Now, I think I remember you allthe way back at Lewa, but I
don't know anything prior tothat.
So just fill me in on yourjourney in education up to this
point.
Give me the skinny CV version.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Sure.
Well, a lot of times when I'mspeaking, people are often
trying to work out where's thataccent from, where is she grown
up?
And I've actually been ininternational schools all of my
life, which is why I have thissort of muddled accent that
can't be placed.
My father was in oil and gas, soI grew up all over Southeast
Asia and the Middle East, whichis why I'm probably very
(01:20):
comfortable being a bit nomadicand traveling around the world.
So prior to being in the UAE, Iwas in Singapore teaching and I
was there for many, many years.
I actually went to school there,went back to the UK, went back
to Singapore, and ended upgetting a teaching assistant job
through a connection and thenworking my way up through all
(01:40):
the ranks.
And I have to tell you, when Iwas in school, no one would ever
think that I would go intoeducation because I wasn't a
great student.
I wasn't a big fan of school.
And frankly, I couldn't haveimagined any other profession
less likely to be on my CV thaneducation.
So it's really funny that I'mactually sitting here.
(02:02):
But it's one of those thingsthat, you know, when I did
actually become a teacher, youwent, you know, when you spot
those children who maybe arestruggling or have, you know,
some challenges in theirbackground and in their life,
that it's easier to connect withthem.
And I think it's one of thethings that actually made me a
better teacher when I was in theclassroom.
So yeah, worked my way upthrough the ranks.
(02:23):
You know, I think I've had everyposition of leadership within a
school and yeah, and seem tojust keep going, I guess.
I'm a very passionate leader,I'm a very passionate educator.
So I think that's really whatthe driving force is.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Amazing.
So anyone out there listeningwho is now a teaching assistant,
just know it's possible to gofrom teaching assistant to
teacher to middle leader tosenior leader and now director.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And I say that when I speak tostaff because I think it's
important that they also realizethat I didn't just fall into
this position.
I've worked my way up throughthe ranks.
And actually, if you are someonewho stands out as a teaching
assistant, you know, you areputting yourself out there,
you're supporting the schoolgoals, and you're really
passionate about your role, thatyou will be seen, you will be
(03:10):
noticed, and that you can makethose progressions and career
progression within the school.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
That is so good to hear because sometimes people do
feel a little bit discouragedthat maybe they're going to be
stuck at a particular role.
Give me, maybe give my listenersa couple of things they can do
if they're now looking.
Maybe they're not a teachingassistant, yeah?
But they're a teacher looking togo up into leadership.
What are some tips that you cangive them to help them to rise?
SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
I think you want to stand out as someone that is
passionate and that you aresomeone who wants to step into a
bigger role.
A lot of times it can be drivenby money, and that really can't
be your motivator, I feel, ineducation.
It's got to be about the biggerpicture.
So the people that have stoodout to me when I've been a
principal in a school is peoplewho come forward and say,
(04:01):
listen, I just went on thisgreat course.
It was amazing.
I really think the team couldbenefit from it.
Can I stand up?
Can I share this learning thatI've just got?
You know, it's going to bebeneficial to the students and
that they are contributing tothe bigger picture within the
school environment.
You know, so you are someone whotakes the initiative, you're
someone who's showing passiontowards the students, you're
(04:22):
stepping above and beyond todemonstrate what you're bringing
to the school and what you'rebringing if you were to step
into leadership roles.
But I do think there are schoolsor settings sometimes that don't
invite the internal promotionopportunities, which can be
quite frustrating to staff thatare in schools.
Sometimes that can just bebecause people don't leave.
(04:43):
So there's no spaces for growthinto those positions.
But I think then we've also gotto be able to say to staff,
listen, you know, if you've hada conversation and I know that's
something that you want to doand take a next step that if
there aren't opportunitieswithin the school, that I'm
going to be the leader whosupports you, you know, getting
a promotion, even if it meansyou're going to another school
(05:03):
in another setting to be able tomeet your career aspirations.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Yeah.
Talium is a big company andgetting bigger.
And so there should beopportunities within the group.
How do you guys, as the directorof education, how do you guys
spot that talent and help thepeople to move into promoted
roles?
SPEAKER_02 (05:23):
Yeah, well, I mean, it would be very difficult for
me to know that at every schoollevel.
So it is conversations that wehave with principals about the
fact that we have a keyresponsibility here.
And ideally, we want to create asetup where, you know, if we
have a leader at whichever levelstep out, you know, for another
opportunity, return home orwhatever it is, that we have
(05:45):
then another layer who have theopportunity to step up.
So although, you know, withinpolicy we always advertise
internally, externally, it'simportant that we have staff
that have the opportunity tostep into those roles.
And if they're the best person,and sometimes they might not be
the person that has the requiredexperience, but they've got the
(06:06):
institutional knowledge.
They also have the passion, thedrive, and the want to be better
and to, you know, put the workin and put the energy into
learning for the new role.
And I think those are timeswhere we do have to make sure
that we're taking an internalcandidate to give them the
chance versus someone who maybehas a very impressive CV, but
doesn't know all of the ins andouts of living in this context,
(06:28):
but also within the schoolitself and their processes and
so on.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Yeah, I think local knowledge is super important,
especially in this region,because you could come in here
with all the accolades, all thequalifications, and bomb because
you just have no idea how tonavigate this context.
But in terms of your role, giveme two high points, two things
you enjoy immensely about thejob you're doing right now, and
(06:55):
two things you're like, ugh,this is just not fun.
SPEAKER_02 (07:00):
Um, I would say, well, we'll start with the
positives.
Like I love the opportunity towork with different curricula,
different schools, differentleaders.
I think that it stretches me asa person because, you know,
working with one individual isgoing to be very different from
another individual.
I have to, you know, increase myability to read people, my
(07:20):
relational intelligence, myemotional intelligence.
You know, I know that somepeople need, you know, more
positivity and someone moredirect feedback.
And so it's good learning forme.
And I think I like to stay ontop of that.
But I also get to be involved inwhat's going on in the
classroom, you know, as part ofour processes, our quality
assurance, I am involved in allof the internal reviews.
(07:42):
And, you know, when I go intoour schools, and I'm not just
saying this because I'm thedirector of education, but when
I see what's happening in theclassroom and I see the
learning, the teaching, youknow, the resourcing and
beautiful buildings, I just amfilled with absolute pride for
being in the position that I'min and what a privilege it is,
(08:03):
and being able to support theprincipals with progressing and
supporting the organization withprogressing, and we're growing
pretty rapidly, as I'm sure youknow, and and a lot of people
know, it's staying on top ofthat and making sure that we've
got processes in place that makethat growth sustainable and that
we're not, you know, droppingany balls anywhere.
And we're very muchcollaborators, I think, within
(08:24):
the group.
We do a lot of things togetherin leadership.
You know, nothing's done to you,it's with you.
You know, there's obviously somecomplexities to us being a
public company, but you know,policies and processes, those
sort of things, right?
So I did my positives.
Here's the challenge.
So the challenges are probably,you know, the fact that we're a
public company and thereforethere are a lot of auditing
(08:46):
requirements.
There's a lot of process policyrequirements where you have to
very much adhere to that.
It helps that I'm a policyperson.
So, you know, for me, uh, that'sless of a challenge, but it's
something that we have to holdschools accountable to as well.
And I think, you know, I don'tknow how many policies I've
read, but that is definitely notmy favorite part of the job.
(09:07):
So that's probably one of thebigger challenges.
And then on the other side, Ithink it's also, you know, I
would love to spend all of mytime living and breathing, being
in the schools, but you do getcaught up with a lot of meetings
and, you know, being involvedwith the government
organizations and supporting thestrategic goals and all of that
sort of thing.
So sometimes, you know,occasionally when I go read a
(09:29):
story in a school, I'm like, oh,remember when I used to do this
for a living?
This was amazing.
And the children, the cagey kidsare all trying to jump on you
and drawing pictures of you.
And so I think I missed that bita little bit because the further
you get up the chain, you tendto get further away from
children in some ways.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
So yeah, no, those are good ones.
I I saw the earnings for Tallim,and I was like, damn, maybe I
should have bought shares.
I saw Alan on one of theprograms talking about the
profits.
I was like, damn, I think Imissed, I think I missed an
opportunity there.
But let's segue into something.
By the time this comes out, Ithink we would have already held
the women in educationleadership forum because this is
(10:11):
now September and we'rerecording and we normally record
and hold episodes to release.
So I think it might be gone bythen.
But do you think women inleadership need anything
different than men inleadership, especially as it
relates to rising intoleadership?
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Do they need anything different?
I wouldn't say so.
I think that we are probablymore self-critical in many ways.
And because of that, women canhold themselves back from that
progression.
And I think you've got to havethe courage to step up and put
yourself forward and beuncomfortable sometimes in that
(10:51):
role.
But we also have to be able toreceive feedback.
And I don't think this is justfor women, but I know having
worked with many women and formyself, you know, that we can
take feedback so to heart whenin actual fact we're human, we
will mess up all the time.
And getting feedback makes usbetter.
So it isn't something that weneed to be taking so personally,
(11:14):
but thinking about a biggerpicture and appreciating the
fact that people feel that theytrust us enough to be open and
honest with us and it helps usgrow in the long run.
I think we've got to be carefulof the way in which imposter
syndrome can sometimes manifest,you know, when we're work with
women who maybe feel a lack ofconfidence in some ways, that
(11:34):
sometimes it can come across inyour leadership style in a less
positive way.
So I think you've got to be ableto, like I said, get that
balance right where you areholding the thought, you are
assertive, you are doing all ofthe things that you're required
to do in leadership, but you'realso saying, yes, maybe, you
know, this isn't the best idea.
(11:55):
And that idea that you'reputting forward is something
that I need to think about, Ineed to consider.
So I think women need to be lesscritical of themselves, and I
think they need to feel theopportunities are there and that
they should step into them witha level of confidence.
We've got a lot of femaleleaders in our organization.
And I remember when I firstbecame a principal in Abu Dhabi,
(12:16):
I remember walking into thereused to be before COVID, those
big principles meetings thatused to be held.
And I would say it was like 80%of the people in those rooms
were men and 20% women.
And I think we are seeing ashift now in more women coming
into leadership and education.
And I think that's amazing andsomething to be proud of.
There's a lot of reallyhardworking, dedicated women who
(12:39):
care about children out therewho should be giving themselves
the chance to step up and stepforward and push themselves out
of their comfort zone.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah, I agree with you.
You mentioned a key word there,courage.
Not just professionally, buteven personally.
What does courage mean to you?
And give me an example of whenyou had to show real courage.
SPEAKER_02 (13:01):
Sure.
I mean, I think in anyopportunity that you're given
where you're pushed out of yourcomfort zone, it takes a level
of courage to take on thatopportunity, apply for that job.
You know, so I think I havedefinitely within my career
applied for jobs where I think,am I meeting all of the criteria
for this role?
Am I going to be able to dothis?
I'm second guessing myself.
(13:22):
But unless you give it a go,unless you're applying and
trying and saying, listen, Ifeel like being open and honest
in an interview, and I say thisto leaders all the time, we can
be vulnerable.
Like you, we don't have to standup there and be the person who
knows everything.
So, you know, have the courageto be vulnerable, which I think
I do with my team.
You know, I don't necessarilyknow everything about
everything.
(13:42):
That's why everyone here issitting around the table because
I need your expertise as well tochallenge me, to tell me how you
feel we could be doing itbetter.
So I think applying for jobsthat are large scale takes a lot
of risk, takes a lot of courage.
And I've done that quite a fewtimes in my career.
But I also feel like I'm alearner.
And I think you have to be alearner if you step into the
(14:05):
role and pretend you knoweverything about everything.
You're never really going towalk away with the growth that
you're going to get from yourteam if you have the
vulnerability and the opennessto gain their trust, to say that
we're growing and we're learningtogether.
And, you know, because we wantto be better, that feedback's
going to collectively be a partof that process.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, I do agree with you.
In your day-to-day dealings withstaff, I don't know how much of
the teaching profession you seein the Tallinn group, but I'm
sure you see a lot with leaders.
What is the one or maybe twothings that you think leaders
nowadays need to be mindful of,especially when they're leading
younger generations?
(14:45):
So like Gen Z, because theteachers are younger now and
they are a different breed, Ithink.
I'm not going to say you couldme.
They're a different breed to me.
What do leaders now need to bemindful of when leading this
generation of teachers?
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
And I think because in our portfolio we have quite
diverse leadership anyway, we'vegot people of different
generations, if you like, withinthe group.
So I think that keeps us withour heads on the ground, knowing
what's going on within theschools.
And I think that as a group,working with our human resource
department, working withrecruitment agents, all of that,
we have an idea of thedemographic coming into the
(15:22):
country.
How are we going to onboardpeople where we are making them
feel comfortable?
Because it's not just about thisgeneration, it's about this
context, you know, and there isa level of comfortability that
you want to create, but also beopen and honest about
expectations because I thinkpeople aren't afraid to speak up
and people aren't afraid toshare their opinions.
(15:43):
And so when we haven't said,listen, this is going to be the
expectation of a teacher workingin this school, you know, we
want to be on this journeytogether.
However, you know, this is theA's and B's are what our
expectations are.
And no one is going to then besurprised by something being
brought to the table that theyweren't prepared for.
So I think having that opencommunication, your induction
(16:05):
process, because you're going toget to know your team a lot
more.
You're going to know there's afew people here who are very
needy, they're very anxious.
I can tell that that's, youknow, I think a lot of mental
health issues in terms ofanxiety and depression and those
things are coming about morefrequently.
And when we're talking aboutinternational staff, we have to
really take care of those peoplebecause you won't know what's
(16:28):
happening behind closed doors.
You won't know how people aregoing to respond when they land
on the ground.
You know, coming to a newcontext, being away from family,
the initial sunshine is going towear off.
And then you're going to bethinking, you know, I can't just
go and pop into my mom's house.
And so I think as leaders, we'vegot to be very mindful of
reading our staff, but alsocreating opportunities for them
(16:51):
to share in a safe settingwhere, you know, many of our
schools will have well-beingcommittees, you know, they'll
have channels in which they canreach out to people, mentors,
buddies.
We also, as part of our medicalinsurance provider, we have
online therapy and things likethat.
So sharing of this informationso people know that there are
(17:12):
ways that they can share theirthoughts and feelings and feel
more comfortable in the setting.
But I think also managing theexpectations of staff coming to
the country to say, listen,there will be a bumpy road.
And those initial few monthstake you a while to settle down.
But when you survive those firstfew months of bureaucracy and
challenges, you know, a lot ofpeople end up staying here for a
(17:35):
long time.
And I'll often share what's myown experience, you know, moving
to the UAE from Singapore, whereSingapore, you know, it's very
structured, very systematic.
And coming into the UAE 17 yearsago, the processes for visas and
Wi-Fi and getting a bank accountand doing all that stuff took so
(17:55):
long.
And I was getting to a pointwhere I was like, I just don't
know if I can keep doing this,you know.
And then once you ride throughthat wave and you get used to,
you know, being away from thefriends and the family that
you're used to and you createnew friendship groups and also,
you know, create opportunitiesfor a staff to create friendship
groups that helps with thatsmooth onboarding process.
(18:16):
And, you know, people don'tleave.
You know, they're here for yearsand years.
I never thought I'd be here for17 years, and yet here I am.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
Yeah, I know.
15 years for me.
And I keep wondering where didthe time go?
I literally can't think.
What did I do in all those 15years?
Anyway, I must have donesomething.
I must have done something.
It couldn't have just blown by.
So let's change gears a bit.
So Nikki, the director ofeducation, but Nikki is also a
(18:46):
mom.
Tell me about that side of you.
SPEAKER_02 (18:49):
Oh, you're gonna make me cry or something.
I just literally have had mydaughter leave hope.
So she's my youngest, and so nowall of my three children are out
of the nest.
And yeah, it took me like a weekof crying to get over the fact
that my daughter's not in herbedroom anymore.
So yeah, no, I think you know,it's been 17 years.
My children have been here andgrowing up with me.
(19:11):
So they're all now either out ofuni, in uni, or in college.
So it's been amazing being a momin the UAE.
I think we're so privileged, andpeople can easily forget that.
You know, the safe environment,the fact that students grow up
being exposed to some of thethings they'd be exposed to in,
you know, more Westerncountries.
(19:32):
And, you know, with that, theyget to retain their childhood
for longer, and you get to seethem play with Lego till they're
14.
And, you know, it those kind ofthings are things that I feel
has been such a privilegegrowing up in the UAE and being
here.
So, yeah, as a m, I try tobalance life and work, and it is
very, very difficult.
But it has helped that, youknow, when my job sort of ramped
(19:55):
up, my children were a bit olderand you know, more independent
and able to handle their ownhomework and all that sort of
thing that comes with their ownschool responsibilities.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Yeah, where's your daughter off to?
SPEAKER_02 (20:07):
She's going to college with her cousin, so
she's in the north of England.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Oh, wow.
And you're here, that's that'stough.
I have two boys and they're nowin year nine, and I keep having
like tiny panic attacks becauseI'm like, they're both gonna
leave for uni in a few years atthe same time.
And I'm very hands-on as a mom,and I'm like, what am I gonna do
with myself?
I need to make a plan.
(20:32):
I keep saying that becausethey're gonna be in year 10 next
year, and then off they go.
And I'm like, what's my plan?
I need a plan or something.
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
Absolutely.
It's so true.
And I think, I think I wasn'tthinking like you're thinking, I
wasn't preparing myself forthis.
It came too much too soon.
And I used to say to people, I'mlike, I'm okay, you know, I'm so
busy and it's fine, and youknow, she's gonna be great,
she's super independent.
And then as soon as she was outof the house, I was like, This
is this is not working for me.
(21:02):
So yeah, but it's it you willinevitably feel some sense of
loss, but at the same time, it'ssuch a lovely step for them in
their own journey and their ownindependence.
And I'm enjoying watching herget a lot from this experience.
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Yeah.
What does well-being mean toyou?
How do you take care ofyourself?
Because you have a busy job.
I told people, I've been tryingto get Nikki on the podcast
since how many two years ago.
So you have to now be able tobalance work and life and taking
care of you.
How do you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think women, moms, you know, we
prioritize everybody beforeourselves a lot of the time.
And I really think that managingmy own anxiety and stress and
all the things that come withthe pressures of the role comes
with finding time for me, youknow, when I'm gonna go and have
(21:56):
a massage or get my hair done,or, you know, have a girl's
night, or, you know, step awayand have a little holiday with
my sister.
You know, those kind of thingsare things that help keep you
level.
And when you are prioritizingeveryone else, like many mothers
do, you do have to remindyourself, and even like for me,
I'll schedule it becauseotherwise something's gonna come
(22:20):
up, it's a busy time, and oh no,I don't need to do that today.
You know, I think exercise iskey, you know, if you're not out
there walking, being active, youknow, it is gonna have an impact
on your mental health.
And there's so much researchbehind, you know, how exercise
can support alleviating anxietyand stress that I think people
(22:42):
need to prioritize exercise.
And it's difficult in the UAE alittle bit because you don't
have the same opportunities for,you know, if you're in Europe
and you're walking about and yougo here and you take the train,
then you walk to the busstation, and you walk to work.
And, you know, a lot of thoseopportunities aren't necessarily
here just because of theexpansive nature of the country
that we're always drivingsomewhere.
(23:04):
It's also very hot in thesummer, so you don't always have
the opportunity between sort ofMay and September for that.
So you've got to find otheropportunities to get out there
and get active, which is gonnabenefit anyone.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah, what are you doing?
Are you walking?
Are you yoguring?
Are you Pilates?
What are you doing?
SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
Pilates, yes.
I go to the gym, I have atreadmill in my living room, you
know.
So making sure that I'm doingthat.
And then as soon as the weathercools down, I am out and I am
walking.
And, you know, if it's going outfor dinner, I will walk an hour
and a half to the dinner and Iwill have dinner and I will walk
back, you know.
(23:42):
So I like doing things likethat.
I'm a little bit crazy aboutgetting my steps in.
SPEAKER_01 (23:46):
So no, that's great though, because yeah, in the UA,
you don't see anybody walkingfor an hour and a half.
I don't even know where youwalk.
There aren't even pathways.
How are you doing that?
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
There are a lot more now.
I mean, I live in Abu Dhabi.
I think Dubai in many ways hasthat in a lot of the residential
areas, but Abu Dhabi'sdefinitely putting a lot of
effort into, you know, cyclepaths and walkways and things
like that, especially in myarea.
I feel very privileged.
So, you know, a lot of them leadto this center of town where,
you know, there are other hotelsand restaurants and things.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Yeah, that's good.
We're winding down the podcast.
I want to ask you like these bigquestions to end out.
Where we are now in education,Nikki, what are the big issues
that you see that we within thecommunity, whether you're a
school leader, director,principal, vice principal, that
you need to be grappling with atthis time?
SPEAKER_02 (24:42):
I think that it's not really an issue.
It's one of those things that'skind of back and forth.
And it has it's very cyclical,is like technology and AI and
all of that.
And then we've got you knowpressures from families that
don't want the technology, andthen we've got pressures from
forward thinking initiatives onbringing AI in and doing all of
(25:04):
these things.
So, how do we create thatbalance within education?
I think sometimes our examsystems in you know, some of our
curricula don't lend itself todeveloping the skills that our
students are gonna need in thefuture.
So, what are we doing as schoolsto help develop those skills?
You know, if you have veryexam-based, like GCSDs, for
(25:25):
example, what are we doing forstudents to help develop them to
be ready for what university isgoing to be like when they get
there?
You know, where soft skills aregoing to be really important in
careers in the future.
What are we doing about that?
Because focusing entirely onrote learning and getting exams
right and things which couldfeel a little bit like that is
(25:48):
not going to be setting ourstudents up for success later on
in the future.
So, how do we build the balancewhere we've got the elements of
technology that are going to besuper important and the students
need to be ahead of that game,but also make sure that they are
developing the skills that theyneed to collaborate to ensure
that they're able to show andunderstand the learning that
(26:09):
they're there getting and thatwe're not driving everything
through AI and then not actuallyable to articulate what or how
we would apply these skills thatwe're learning and this content
that we're learning to actualevents.
So I think changing the way inwhich we assess, the way in
which we deliver curriculum, theway in which we prepare
students, it's just anever-evolving conversation that
(26:32):
we've got to keep having witheach other, you know, having as
school leaders, but having asteachers, because AI is so great
in so many ways, and technologyis fantastic in the ways in
which it can, you know, supportlearning and can make things
accessible for children thatneed it.
But also we need a level ofbalance within that.
And getting that right, I think,is tricky for all schools, and
(26:56):
we're all working through thattogether at the moment.
SPEAKER_01 (26:59):
Yeah, I agree with you.
It's really that balance.
I've been doing a lot of readingaround tech and AI and the
implications, and some of it isdoom and gloom, and some of it
is high optimism, and some of itis balance.
And I'm just trying to find myspace in all of that and really
thinking, okay, what are weactually needing to do at this
(27:22):
time?
SPEAKER_02 (27:22):
I know, and I remember like there was a time
where everyone was saying, like,you go and do your degree, and
it should be technology basedbecause you know, all of the
careers for the future are gonnabe, and now we've got people
being made redundant in digitalmedia and and you know, creation
and design through digitalmedia.
It's all of that can be done ina split second in AI.
(27:44):
So now what are we doing to sayactually trades are really
important, and that's gonna besomething that we're gonna need
to build on.
And how are students thinkingabout that?
You know, what are the thingsthat you're gonna need in the
future where you still have thatbalance of information,
knowledge, and experience withAI, but that you're utilizing it
ethically and that it's beingused to support a bigger
(28:06):
picture?
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah, I do agree with you.
Wow, that's a good place to endthe pod.
Thank you, Nikki.
SPEAKER_02 (28:14):
No problem.
It's been wonderful.
Thanks for having me, and I'm sosorry that it's been so long.
It's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (28:20):
Thank you so much.
You are listening to the Teach Middle East Podcast.
Connecting, developing, andempowering educators.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Hey everyone, Lisa Grace here, welcoming you back
to the Teach Middle Eastpodcast.
Today I am with Nikki Williams,Director of Education for
Taleem.
She is the hardest woman tocatch.
This is now season six.
I have been inviting Nikki sinceseason four.
Welcome to the podcast, Nikki.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
Thank you, and happy to be here.
Thank you for the invitation.
Excited for this.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
Amazing.
Now, I think I remember you allthe way back at Lewa, but I
don't know anything prior tothat.
So just fill me in on yourjourney in education up to this
point.
Give me the skinny CV version.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Sure.
Well, a lot of times when I'mspeaking, people are often
trying to work out where's thataccent from, where is she grown
up?
And I've actually been ininternational schools all of my
life, which is why I have thissort of muddled accent that
can't be placed.
My father was in oil and gas, soI grew up all over Southeast
Asia and the Middle East, whichis why I'm probably very
(01:20):
comfortable being a bit nomadicand traveling around the world.
So prior to being in the UAE, Iwas in Singapore teaching and I
was there for many, many years.
I actually went to school there,went back to the UK, went back
to Singapore, and ended upgetting a teaching assistant job
through a connection and thenworking my way up through all
(01:40):
the ranks.
And I have to tell you, when Iwas in school, no one would ever
think that I would go intoeducation because I wasn't a
great student.
I wasn't a big fan of school.
And frankly, I couldn't haveimagined any other profession
less likely to be on my CV thaneducation.
So it's really funny that I'mactually sitting here.
(02:02):
But it's one of those thingsthat, you know, when I did
actually become a teacher, youwent, you know, when you spot
those children who maybe arestruggling or have, you know,
some challenges in theirbackground and in their life,
that it's easier to connect withthem.
And I think it's one of thethings that actually made me a
better teacher when I was in theclassroom.
So yeah, worked my way upthrough the ranks.
(02:23):
You know, I think I've had everyposition of leadership within a
school and yeah, and seem tojust keep going, I guess.
I'm a very passionate leader,I'm a very passionate educator.
So I think that's really whatthe driving force is.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Amazing.
So anyone out there listeningwho is now a teaching assistant,
just know it's possible to gofrom teaching assistant to
teacher to middle leader tosenior leader and now director.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And I say that when I speak tostaff because I think it's
important that they also realizethat I didn't just fall into
this position.
I've worked my way up throughthe ranks.
And actually, if you are someonewho stands out as a teaching
assistant, you know, you areputting yourself out there,
you're supporting the schoolgoals, and you're really
passionate about your role, thatyou will be seen, you will be
(03:10):
noticed, and that you can makethose progressions and career
progression within the school.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
That is so good to hear because sometimes people do
feel a little bit discouragedthat maybe they're going to be
stuck at a particular role.
Give me, maybe give my listenersa couple of things they can do
if they're now looking.
Maybe they're not a teachingassistant, yeah?
But they're a teacher looking togo up into leadership.
What are some tips that you cangive them to help them to rise?
SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
I think you want to stand out as someone that is
passionate and that you aresomeone who wants to step into a
bigger role.
A lot of times it can be drivenby money, and that really can't
be your motivator, I feel, ineducation.
It's got to be about the biggerpicture.
So the people that have stoodout to me when I've been a
principal in a school is peoplewho come forward and say,
(04:01):
listen, I just went on thisgreat course.
It was amazing.
I really think the team couldbenefit from it.
Can I stand up?
Can I share this learning thatI've just got?
You know, it's going to bebeneficial to the students and
that they are contributing tothe bigger picture within the
school environment.
You know, so you are someone whotakes the initiative, you're
someone who's showing passiontowards the students, you're
(04:22):
stepping above and beyond todemonstrate what you're bringing
to the school and what you'rebringing if you were to step
into leadership roles.
But I do think there are schoolsor settings sometimes that don't
invite the internal promotionopportunities, which can be
quite frustrating to staff thatare in schools.
Sometimes that can just bebecause people don't leave.
(04:43):
So there's no spaces for growthinto those positions.
But I think then we've also gotto be able to say to staff,
listen, you know, if you've hada conversation and I know that's
something that you want to doand take a next step that if
there aren't opportunitieswithin the school, that I'm
going to be the leader whosupports you, you know, getting
a promotion, even if it meansyou're going to another school
(05:03):
in another setting to be able tomeet your career aspirations.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Yeah.
Talium is a big company andgetting bigger.
And so there should beopportunities within the group.
How do you guys, as the directorof education, how do you guys
spot that talent and help thepeople to move into promoted
roles?
SPEAKER_02 (05:23):
Yeah, well, I mean, it would be very difficult for
me to know that at every schoollevel.
So it is conversations that wehave with principals about the
fact that we have a keyresponsibility here.
And ideally, we want to create asetup where, you know, if we
have a leader at whichever levelstep out, you know, for another
opportunity, return home orwhatever it is, that we have
(05:45):
then another layer who have theopportunity to step up.
So although, you know, withinpolicy we always advertise
internally, externally, it'simportant that we have staff
that have the opportunity tostep into those roles.
And if they're the best person,and sometimes they might not be
the person that has the requiredexperience, but they've got the
(06:06):
institutional knowledge.
They also have the passion, thedrive, and the want to be better
and to, you know, put the workin and put the energy into
learning for the new role.
And I think those are timeswhere we do have to make sure
that we're taking an internalcandidate to give them the
chance versus someone who maybehas a very impressive CV, but
doesn't know all of the ins andouts of living in this context,
(06:28):
but also within the schoolitself and their processes and
so on.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Yeah, I think local knowledge is super important,
especially in this region,because you could come in here
with all the accolades, all thequalifications, and bomb because
you just have no idea how tonavigate this context.
But in terms of your role, giveme two high points, two things
you enjoy immensely about thejob you're doing right now, and
(06:55):
two things you're like, ugh,this is just not fun.
SPEAKER_02 (07:00):
Um, I would say, well, we'll start with the
positives.
Like I love the opportunity towork with different curricula,
different schools, differentleaders.
I think that it stretches me asa person because, you know,
working with one individual isgoing to be very different from
another individual.
I have to, you know, increase myability to read people, my
(07:20):
relational intelligence, myemotional intelligence.
You know, I know that somepeople need, you know, more
positivity and someone moredirect feedback.
And so it's good learning forme.
And I think I like to stay ontop of that.
But I also get to be involved inwhat's going on in the
classroom, you know, as part ofour processes, our quality
assurance, I am involved in allof the internal reviews.
(07:42):
And, you know, when I go intoour schools, and I'm not just
saying this because I'm thedirector of education, but when
I see what's happening in theclassroom and I see the
learning, the teaching, youknow, the resourcing and
beautiful buildings, I just amfilled with absolute pride for
being in the position that I'min and what a privilege it is,
(08:03):
and being able to support theprincipals with progressing and
supporting the organization withprogressing, and we're growing
pretty rapidly, as I'm sure youknow, and and a lot of people
know, it's staying on top ofthat and making sure that we've
got processes in place that makethat growth sustainable and that
we're not, you know, droppingany balls anywhere.
And we're very muchcollaborators, I think, within
(08:24):
the group.
We do a lot of things togetherin leadership.
You know, nothing's done to you,it's with you.
You know, there's obviously somecomplexities to us being a
public company, but you know,policies and processes, those
sort of things, right?
So I did my positives.
Here's the challenge.
So the challenges are probably,you know, the fact that we're a
public company and thereforethere are a lot of auditing
(08:46):
requirements.
There's a lot of process policyrequirements where you have to
very much adhere to that.
It helps that I'm a policyperson.
So, you know, for me, uh, that'sless of a challenge, but it's
something that we have to holdschools accountable to as well.
And I think, you know, I don'tknow how many policies I've
read, but that is definitely notmy favorite part of the job.
(09:07):
So that's probably one of thebigger challenges.
And then on the other side, Ithink it's also, you know, I
would love to spend all of mytime living and breathing, being
in the schools, but you do getcaught up with a lot of meetings
and, you know, being involvedwith the government
organizations and supporting thestrategic goals and all of that
sort of thing.
So sometimes, you know,occasionally when I go read a
(09:29):
story in a school, I'm like, oh,remember when I used to do this
for a living?
This was amazing.
And the children, the cagey kidsare all trying to jump on you
and drawing pictures of you.
And so I think I missed that bita little bit because the further
you get up the chain, you tendto get further away from
children in some ways.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
So yeah, no, those are good ones.
I I saw the earnings for Tallim,and I was like, damn, maybe I
should have bought shares.
I saw Alan on one of theprograms talking about the
profits.
I was like, damn, I think Imissed, I think I missed an
opportunity there.
But let's segue into something.
By the time this comes out, Ithink we would have already held
the women in educationleadership forum because this is
(10:11):
now September and we'rerecording and we normally record
and hold episodes to release.
So I think it might be gone bythen.
But do you think women inleadership need anything
different than men inleadership, especially as it
relates to rising intoleadership?
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Do they need anything different?
I wouldn't say so.
I think that we are probablymore self-critical in many ways.
And because of that, women canhold themselves back from that
progression.
And I think you've got to havethe courage to step up and put
yourself forward and beuncomfortable sometimes in that
(10:51):
role.
But we also have to be able toreceive feedback.
And I don't think this is justfor women, but I know having
worked with many women and formyself, you know, that we can
take feedback so to heart whenin actual fact we're human, we
will mess up all the time.
And getting feedback makes usbetter.
So it isn't something that weneed to be taking so personally,
(11:14):
but thinking about a biggerpicture and appreciating the
fact that people feel that theytrust us enough to be open and
honest with us and it helps usgrow in the long run.
I think we've got to be carefulof the way in which imposter
syndrome can sometimes manifest,you know, when we're work with
women who maybe feel a lack ofconfidence in some ways, that
(11:34):
sometimes it can come across inyour leadership style in a less
positive way.
So I think you've got to be ableto, like I said, get that
balance right where you areholding the thought, you are
assertive, you are doing all ofthe things that you're required
to do in leadership, but you'realso saying, yes, maybe, you
know, this isn't the best idea.
(11:55):
And that idea that you'reputting forward is something
that I need to think about, Ineed to consider.
So I think women need to be lesscritical of themselves, and I
think they need to feel theopportunities are there and that
they should step into them witha level of confidence.
We've got a lot of femaleleaders in our organization.
And I remember when I firstbecame a principal in Abu Dhabi,
(12:16):
I remember walking into thereused to be before COVID, those
big principles meetings thatused to be held.
And I would say it was like 80%of the people in those rooms
were men and 20% women.
And I think we are seeing ashift now in more women coming
into leadership and education.
And I think that's amazing andsomething to be proud of.
There's a lot of reallyhardworking, dedicated women who
(12:39):
care about children out therewho should be giving themselves
the chance to step up and stepforward and push themselves out
of their comfort zone.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah, I agree with you.
You mentioned a key word there,courage.
Not just professionally, buteven personally.
What does courage mean to you?
And give me an example of whenyou had to show real courage.
SPEAKER_02 (13:01):
Sure.
I mean, I think in anyopportunity that you're given
where you're pushed out of yourcomfort zone, it takes a level
of courage to take on thatopportunity, apply for that job.
You know, so I think I havedefinitely within my career
applied for jobs where I think,am I meeting all of the criteria
for this role?
Am I going to be able to dothis?
I'm second guessing myself.
(13:22):
But unless you give it a go,unless you're applying and
trying and saying, listen, Ifeel like being open and honest
in an interview, and I say thisto leaders all the time, we can
be vulnerable.
Like you, we don't have to standup there and be the person who
knows everything.
So, you know, have the courageto be vulnerable, which I think
I do with my team.
You know, I don't necessarilyknow everything about
everything.
(13:42):
That's why everyone here issitting around the table because
I need your expertise as well tochallenge me, to tell me how you
feel we could be doing itbetter.
So I think applying for jobsthat are large scale takes a lot
of risk, takes a lot of courage.
And I've done that quite a fewtimes in my career.
But I also feel like I'm alearner.
And I think you have to be alearner if you step into the
(14:05):
role and pretend you knoweverything about everything.
You're never really going towalk away with the growth that
you're going to get from yourteam if you have the
vulnerability and the opennessto gain their trust, to say that
we're growing and we're learningtogether.
And, you know, because we wantto be better, that feedback's
going to collectively be a partof that process.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, I do agree with you.
In your day-to-day dealings withstaff, I don't know how much of
the teaching profession you seein the Tallinn group, but I'm
sure you see a lot with leaders.
What is the one or maybe twothings that you think leaders
nowadays need to be mindful of,especially when they're leading
younger generations?
(14:45):
So like Gen Z, because theteachers are younger now and
they are a different breed, Ithink.
I'm not going to say you couldme.
They're a different breed to me.
What do leaders now need to bemindful of when leading this
generation of teachers?
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
And I think because in our portfolio we have quite
diverse leadership anyway, we'vegot people of different
generations, if you like, withinthe group.
So I think that keeps us withour heads on the ground, knowing
what's going on within theschools.
And I think that as a group,working with our human resource
department, working withrecruitment agents, all of that,
we have an idea of thedemographic coming into the
(15:22):
country.
How are we going to onboardpeople where we are making them
feel comfortable?
Because it's not just about thisgeneration, it's about this
context, you know, and there isa level of comfortability that
you want to create, but also beopen and honest about
expectations because I thinkpeople aren't afraid to speak up
and people aren't afraid toshare their opinions.
(15:43):
And so when we haven't said,listen, this is going to be the
expectation of a teacher workingin this school, you know, we
want to be on this journeytogether.
However, you know, this is theA's and B's are what our
expectations are.
And no one is going to then besurprised by something being
brought to the table that theyweren't prepared for.
So I think having that opencommunication, your induction
(16:05):
process, because you're going toget to know your team a lot
more.
You're going to know there's afew people here who are very
needy, they're very anxious.
I can tell that that's, youknow, I think a lot of mental
health issues in terms ofanxiety and depression and those
things are coming about morefrequently.
And when we're talking aboutinternational staff, we have to
really take care of those peoplebecause you won't know what's
(16:28):
happening behind closed doors.
You won't know how people aregoing to respond when they land
on the ground.
You know, coming to a newcontext, being away from family,
the initial sunshine is going towear off.
And then you're going to bethinking, you know, I can't just
go and pop into my mom's house.
And so I think as leaders, we'vegot to be very mindful of
reading our staff, but alsocreating opportunities for them
(16:51):
to share in a safe settingwhere, you know, many of our
schools will have well-beingcommittees, you know, they'll
have channels in which they canreach out to people, mentors,
buddies.
We also, as part of our medicalinsurance provider, we have
online therapy and things likethat.
So sharing of this informationso people know that there are
(17:12):
ways that they can share theirthoughts and feelings and feel
more comfortable in the setting.
But I think also managing theexpectations of staff coming to
the country to say, listen,there will be a bumpy road.
And those initial few monthstake you a while to settle down.
But when you survive those firstfew months of bureaucracy and
challenges, you know, a lot ofpeople end up staying here for a
(17:35):
long time.
And I'll often share what's myown experience, you know, moving
to the UAE from Singapore, whereSingapore, you know, it's very
structured, very systematic.
And coming into the UAE 17 yearsago, the processes for visas and
Wi-Fi and getting a bank accountand doing all that stuff took so
(17:55):
long.
And I was getting to a pointwhere I was like, I just don't
know if I can keep doing this,you know.
And then once you ride throughthat wave and you get used to,
you know, being away from thefriends and the family that
you're used to and you createnew friendship groups and also,
you know, create opportunitiesfor a staff to create friendship
groups that helps with thatsmooth onboarding process.
(18:16):
And, you know, people don'tleave.
You know, they're here for yearsand years.
I never thought I'd be here for17 years, and yet here I am.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
Yeah, I know.
15 years for me.
And I keep wondering where didthe time go?
I literally can't think.
What did I do in all those 15years?
Anyway, I must have donesomething.
I must have done something.
It couldn't have just blown by.
So let's change gears a bit.
So Nikki, the director ofeducation, but Nikki is also a
(18:46):
mom.
Tell me about that side of you.
SPEAKER_02 (18:49):
Oh, you're gonna make me cry or something.
I just literally have had mydaughter leave hope.
So she's my youngest, and so nowall of my three children are out
of the nest.
And yeah, it took me like a weekof crying to get over the fact
that my daughter's not in herbedroom anymore.
So yeah, no, I think you know,it's been 17 years.
My children have been here andgrowing up with me.
(19:11):
So they're all now either out ofuni, in uni, or in college.
So it's been amazing being a momin the UAE.
I think we're so privileged, andpeople can easily forget that.
You know, the safe environment,the fact that students grow up
being exposed to some of thethings they'd be exposed to in,
you know, more Westerncountries.
(19:32):
And, you know, with that, theyget to retain their childhood
for longer, and you get to seethem play with Lego till they're
14.
And, you know, it those kind ofthings are things that I feel
has been such a privilegegrowing up in the UAE and being
here.
So, yeah, as a m, I try tobalance life and work, and it is
very, very difficult.
But it has helped that, youknow, when my job sort of ramped
(19:55):
up, my children were a bit olderand you know, more independent
and able to handle their ownhomework and all that sort of
thing that comes with their ownschool responsibilities.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Yeah, where's your daughter off to?
SPEAKER_02 (20:07):
She's going to college with her cousin, so
she's in the north of England.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Oh, wow.
And you're here, that's that'stough.
I have two boys and they're nowin year nine, and I keep having
like tiny panic attacks becauseI'm like, they're both gonna
leave for uni in a few years atthe same time.
And I'm very hands-on as a mom,and I'm like, what am I gonna do
with myself?
I need to make a plan.
(20:32):
I keep saying that becausethey're gonna be in year 10 next
year, and then off they go.
And I'm like, what's my plan?
I need a plan or something.
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
Absolutely.
It's so true.
And I think, I think I wasn'tthinking like you're thinking, I
wasn't preparing myself forthis.
It came too much too soon.
And I used to say to people, I'mlike, I'm okay, you know, I'm so
busy and it's fine, and youknow, she's gonna be great,
she's super independent.
And then as soon as she was outof the house, I was like, This
is this is not working for me.
(21:02):
So yeah, but it's it you willinevitably feel some sense of
loss, but at the same time, it'ssuch a lovely step for them in
their own journey and their ownindependence.
And I'm enjoying watching herget a lot from this experience.
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Yeah.
What does well-being mean toyou?
How do you take care ofyourself?
Because you have a busy job.
I told people, I've been tryingto get Nikki on the podcast
since how many two years ago.
So you have to now be able tobalance work and life and taking
care of you.
How do you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think women, moms, you know, we
prioritize everybody beforeourselves a lot of the time.
And I really think that managingmy own anxiety and stress and
all the things that come withthe pressures of the role comes
with finding time for me, youknow, when I'm gonna go and have
(21:56):
a massage or get my hair done,or, you know, have a girl's
night, or, you know, step awayand have a little holiday with
my sister.
You know, those kind of thingsare things that help keep you
level.
And when you are prioritizingeveryone else, like many mothers
do, you do have to remindyourself, and even like for me,
I'll schedule it becauseotherwise something's gonna come
(22:20):
up, it's a busy time, and oh no,I don't need to do that today.
You know, I think exercise iskey, you know, if you're not out
there walking, being active, youknow, it is gonna have an impact
on your mental health.
And there's so much researchbehind, you know, how exercise
can support alleviating anxietyand stress that I think people
(22:42):
need to prioritize exercise.
And it's difficult in the UAE alittle bit because you don't
have the same opportunities for,you know, if you're in Europe
and you're walking about and yougo here and you take the train,
then you walk to the busstation, and you walk to work.
And, you know, a lot of thoseopportunities aren't necessarily
here just because of theexpansive nature of the country
that we're always drivingsomewhere.
(23:04):
It's also very hot in thesummer, so you don't always have
the opportunity between sort ofMay and September for that.
So you've got to find otheropportunities to get out there
and get active, which is gonnabenefit anyone.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah, what are you doing?
Are you walking?
Are you yoguring?
Are you Pilates?
What are you doing?
SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
Pilates, yes.
I go to the gym, I have atreadmill in my living room, you
know.
So making sure that I'm doingthat.
And then as soon as the weathercools down, I am out and I am
walking.
And, you know, if it's going outfor dinner, I will walk an hour
and a half to the dinner and Iwill have dinner and I will walk
back, you know.
(23:42):
So I like doing things likethat.
I'm a little bit crazy aboutgetting my steps in.
SPEAKER_01 (23:46):
So no, that's great though, because yeah, in the UA,
you don't see anybody walkingfor an hour and a half.
I don't even know where youwalk.
There aren't even pathways.
How are you doing that?
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
There are a lot more now.
I mean, I live in Abu Dhabi.
I think Dubai in many ways hasthat in a lot of the residential
areas, but Abu Dhabi'sdefinitely putting a lot of
effort into, you know, cyclepaths and walkways and things
like that, especially in myarea.
I feel very privileged.
So, you know, a lot of them leadto this center of town where,
you know, there are other hotelsand restaurants and things.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Yeah, that's good.
We're winding down the podcast.
I want to ask you like these bigquestions to end out.
Where we are now in education,Nikki, what are the big issues
that you see that we within thecommunity, whether you're a
school leader, director,principal, vice principal, that
you need to be grappling with atthis time?
SPEAKER_02 (24:42):
I think that it's not really an issue.
It's one of those things that'skind of back and forth.
And it has it's very cyclical,is like technology and AI and
all of that.
And then we've got you knowpressures from families that
don't want the technology, andthen we've got pressures from
forward thinking initiatives onbringing AI in and doing all of
(25:04):
these things.
So, how do we create thatbalance within education?
I think sometimes our examsystems in you know, some of our
curricula don't lend itself todeveloping the skills that our
students are gonna need in thefuture.
So, what are we doing as schoolsto help develop those skills?
You know, if you have veryexam-based, like GCSDs, for
(25:25):
example, what are we doing forstudents to help develop them to
be ready for what university isgoing to be like when they get
there?
You know, where soft skills aregoing to be really important in
careers in the future.
What are we doing about that?
Because focusing entirely onrote learning and getting exams
right and things which couldfeel a little bit like that is
(25:48):
not going to be setting ourstudents up for success later on
in the future.
So, how do we build the balancewhere we've got the elements of
technology that are going to besuper important and the students
need to be ahead of that game,but also make sure that they are
developing the skills that theyneed to collaborate to ensure
that they're able to show andunderstand the learning that
(26:09):
they're there getting and thatwe're not driving everything
through AI and then not actuallyable to articulate what or how
we would apply these skills thatwe're learning and this content
that we're learning to actualevents.
So I think changing the way inwhich we assess, the way in
which we deliver curriculum, theway in which we prepare
students, it's just anever-evolving conversation that
(26:32):
we've got to keep having witheach other, you know, having as
school leaders, but having asteachers, because AI is so great
in so many ways, and technologyis fantastic in the ways in
which it can, you know, supportlearning and can make things
accessible for children thatneed it.
But also we need a level ofbalance within that.
And getting that right, I think,is tricky for all schools, and
(26:56):
we're all working through thattogether at the moment.
SPEAKER_01 (26:59):
Yeah, I agree with you.
It's really that balance.
I've been doing a lot of readingaround tech and AI and the
implications, and some of it isdoom and gloom, and some of it
is high optimism, and some of itis balance.
And I'm just trying to find myspace in all of that and really
thinking, okay, what are weactually needing to do at this
(27:22):
time?
SPEAKER_02 (27:22):
I know, and I remember like there was a time
where everyone was saying, like,you go and do your degree, and
it should be technology basedbecause you know, all of the
careers for the future are gonnabe, and now we've got people
being made redundant in digitalmedia and and you know, creation
and design through digitalmedia.
It's all of that can be done ina split second in AI.
(27:44):
So now what are we doing to sayactually trades are really
important, and that's gonna besomething that we're gonna need
to build on.
And how are students thinkingabout that?
You know, what are the thingsthat you're gonna need in the
future where you still have thatbalance of information,
knowledge, and experience withAI, but that you're utilizing it
ethically and that it's beingused to support a bigger
(28:06):
picture?
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah, I do agree with you.
Wow, that's a good place to endthe pod.
Thank you, Nikki.
SPEAKER_02 (28:14):
No problem.
It's been wonderful.
Thanks for having me, and I'm sosorry that it's been so long.
It's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (28:20):
Thank you so much.
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