Embark on a transformative adventure with Edward DeShazer and Dr. Sean Woodly, as we uncover the essential ingredients for success in urban and culturally diverse classrooms. This episode is a compelling tapestry, weaving Dr. Woodly's journey from the DJ booth to the classroom with robust discussions on student engagement and classroom management. Discover the Teach, Hustle, Inspire movement and how Dr. Woodley's bestselling books provide a roadmap for educators to unlock the true potential in every student.
The art of DJing and teaching may seem worlds apart, but they share a rhythm that resonates with those willing to listen. This chat brings to light the critical importance of knowing your audience and the power of connection, whether commanding a classroom or controlling the decks. We delve into authentic leadership and the profound impact of relationship-building in education, challenging listeners to reflect on their approach to teaching and leadership. The stories shared serve as a beacon for educators and school leaders, inspiring them to lead with authenticity and foster a nurturing, communicative environment.
Our conversation is a tribute to educators' resilience and a call to arms for greater self-awareness and emotional intelligence in the teaching profession. We dissect the solitude often found within the K-12 structure and its clash with human needs, shining a light on the importance of consistent classroom management and support for teachers. Offering practical advice for career switchers and veterans alike, we emphasize the power of self-reflection and the selection of a positive community to thrive in education. Tune in for an episode that's as informative as it is inspirational, equipping educators with the tools for a more impactful and fulfilling teaching journey with Dr. Sean Woodly by our side.
More information about Dr. Woodly can be found here: https://www.teachhustleinspire.com/
www.EdwardDeShazer.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Teachers Ed podcast.
I'm your host, edward DeShazer.
Teachers Ed podcast was createdto be a thought space for the
best I almost said the best thebest and brightest in education
to come to learn, to connect, toinspire and to grow.
Today's guest today.
I am honored.
(00:32):
Let me read his bio.
Today's guest today is Dr SeanWoodley.
He is charged with anunstoppable passion for
education.
Dr Sean Woodley, a HamptonUniversity alum, has left marks
on every rung of the academicladder, from a dedicated K-12
teacher to an inspiringuniversity professor.
His journey is fueled by acommitment to transform
(00:53):
education.
Celebrated as Teacher of theYear and the recipient of
several awards for hisexceptional teaching, dr
Woodley's accolades are atestament to his remarkable
influence, pioneering new pathsto the highest levels of
achievement in urban andculturally diverse schools.
Dr Woodley is the visionaryarchitect of the transformative
(01:14):
movement Teach, hustle, inspire.
For those looking at YouTube, Iam repping his hoodie.
It's one of the dopest hoodiesout there.
I'll give you an opportunity tofind out where you can get that
later.
He is also a two-timebestselling author of MC Means
Move the Class how to SparkEngagement and Motivation in
Urban and Culturally DiverseClassrooms, as well as the
League of ExtraordinaryEducators the Secret Strategies
(01:37):
of Transformational Teachers.
Dr Woodley strives to redefineteaching and learning experience
in urban and culturally diverseschools so that the
extraordinary gift thateducators unlocks the potential
of every student in everyclassroom, regardless of the
circumstances.
I have had the privilege to hearDr Woodley speak several times.
(01:57):
If you are not in education,you will understand after this
conversation why you need to befollowing him.
Why you need to be followinghim, why you need to hear him
speak, why you need to get intouch with him.
He is incredible, dr Woodley.
I appreciate you jumping on man.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh man, I don't even know what to say after that,
brother.
Thank you very, very much, mygood man Edward.
It's an absolute pleasure tojoin you.
I appreciate the invitationAlways.
I could talk about this stuffforward and backwards all day,
so you just let me know I'mready to do it.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah.
So where the space I want us tokind of really, you know I've
heard you speak classroommanagement, student engagement
are two of those spaces whereI've just I know, and the thing
is they're both kind of hand inhand, Like if you get students
engaged your management becomesa little easier.
So really, I guess the start Igave an introduction Can you
(02:49):
just kind of let people know, ifyou can, the story that I want
you to share is the justbasically how you, the story
that you share when you speak toeducators the version I know
I've heard it where you talkabout how you were a DJ and how
(03:10):
you got in the classroom and hadthose challenges.
Can you just share that story?
Because every time I hear thatI think that is the story that
can help shift the mindset of aneducator or a school leader
that's listening today.
So if you can just share alittle bit about yourself and
how you ended up where you arewith this incredible brand of
Teach, Hustle, Inspire,Absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
My path to education.
I started teaching notimmediately out of college.
I did a five-year program whenI was at Hampton, and so I came
out with my master's fullycertified, but I didn't get into
teaching right away.
I took a year before I startedteaching, but when I did get
(03:49):
into the classroom, it wasalmost like what took you so
long?
You should have been here Likethis is where you belong, felt
like I was supposed to be there.
So I get in there, though, andthe school at which I teach it's
about 30 minutes away fromwhere I was living, so I'm not
familiar with this area.
I'm still living.
(04:09):
I went to Hampton, which is inVirginia, so I'm still living in
the Hampton Roads area, but Ihad to go across the water, as
they say, across the bridge,teaching at a school I'm not
familiar with.
So I get into the school, dothe interview, get offered a
position, and I'm stepping intomy calling Again.
What took you so long Before Istart teaching, though?
(04:32):
I get offered their position inOctober, which number one is
not hiring season.
You as a building leader, youknow good and well, right, you
already already know.
So I get offered the positionin october.
October 6th was my first dayteaching, which, for those that
did not catch that, that meansthat somebody was there at the
(04:53):
beginning of the year and quit.
So here I come.
Now also, when I tell people,hey, I'm getting ready to start
teaching.
They're asking me firstquestion oh great, where are you
going to teach?
Tell them the name of theschool.
And then I'm getting ready tostart teaching, they're asking
me first question oh great,where are you going to teach?
Tell them the name of theschool.
And then I'm getting all theseeyebrows like, oh, be careful,
like those types of responsesbecause of the neighborhood
(05:14):
where the school is.
So now I'm taking all of thisin.
I go into that classroom.
In my mind there's only onething that I need to do, because
they just ran that teacher outof the building.
And I'm talking about thesepeople are like this school is
just be careful in their middleschool.
So I go in there with thementality of shutting everything
(05:34):
down and that is exactly what Idid.
Like I've been told that newteacher mantra where you don't
smile to November.
Just just know, I took itentirely too far.
I did not smile privately formy first two years of teaching,
just went in there and was justiron fist.
This is my way or the highwayto get relationships?
(05:57):
None of that.
And I taught that way.
And from the outside it lookedgood, because my classroom was
always one that was very quiet.
For the most part, my classroomwas one that seemed very
compliant.
And again, on the outside itlooked good.
It was something that I held inhigh regard and I wore it
(06:18):
honestly, as a badge of honor.
Until one day I'm sitting in myoffice and one of the parents of
my sixth grade students, shecalls me.
She says hello, how you doing?
I said good, how can I help you?
She's told me plain and simple,very directly.
She said my daughter is scaredin your classroom and I will
never, ever forget that momentfor me because it just hit me as
(06:41):
I walked into that classroomevery day.
I knew exactly what I was doing,but at the same time I didn't
realize the damage that it wascausing For a parent to say that
to me, that I'm literally usingfear as a teaching mechanism
for someone's child.
It just mind you, at that age Ididn't have children yet.
(07:20):
Yeah, literally thestudent-to-prison pipeline.
I'm fitting right into thesystem the way that it wants me
to.
So what that caused me to do wasto step back and make some very
serious changes very, very soon, and I didn't know exactly what
needed to be done.
(07:40):
But I went back to the drawingboard and I started from the
bottom, like literally from dayone, and worked my way back into
what I felt like a teachershould be for students that look
like us.
And what I also did at thattime was it forced me to go back
and figure out okay, hey,clearly this is not the right
(08:03):
way, but what is the right way?
And gradually my students startto have greater levels of
success.
I earned teacher of the year mystudents in the state of
Virginia when you get a blueribbon recognition, that's like
state level.
We did the doggone thing and sothat, in a nutshell, really
just showed me what could bedone for quote, unquote those
(08:25):
kids because they have beenwritten off and still are in a
lot of cases in otherneighborhoods and schools
written off.
But that potential is there.
It just is lying a lot of times, dormant and untapped.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, and you know hearing what you're saying.
There was something I heard aneducator say that you know you
were talking about complianceand there's this big
misconception in education thatcompliance is learning.
A compliant classroom is justat a stalemate.
Me as a teacher, if you justsit and be quiet and don't give
(09:05):
me problems, I'm not going tomake you do nothing, you just we
will both exist while we're inhere and I've seen that in
classrooms and that's such a bigmisconception.
When you tour around buildingsand you think of classroom
management, to me classroommanagement isn't always the
quietest classroom.
Like I'm worried when theclassroom is quiet, unless
(09:27):
there's like reading or studyinglike a quiet classroom isn't
good, like there should betalking, there should be
connecting, there should bestuff going on.
But I think from our generationis you know me being 41, our
generation like a compliantclassroom was considered the
most of the best classroom.
They're all in the straightline, they're all listening.
(09:48):
So I think that, from what I'm,what I hear a lot of times is
that mentality that we got toget out of an education, that
compliance doesn't mean learning.
And that's why I've alwaysgravitated to listening to your
presentations because there'slife in it and there's energy.
And I think what you do is sovaluable for educators because
(10:12):
you model it versus the peopleI've seen present that get up
there and it's like bullet pointone this is what you do.
Bullet point two I think thatis one of the most valuable
things from my opinion of what Ihave seen you do is how you
model that the classrooms can befun.
(10:33):
And I know there's something youtalked about and, if you could
go into a little bit, you talkedabout your experience as a DJ
and how that ties to classroomand student engagement, which
ultimately works along withmanagement.
Can you kind of talk about thata little bit, because I think
what's stopping and this is justmy opinion what is stopping
some educators from beingdynamic, is just a small mindset
(10:55):
shift.
We've seen and operated in thesame space of like straight rows
, compliance, and once aneducator's mindset shifts, I
think there's a lot of growththat'll take place.
So can you kind of talk aboutyour experience as a DJ and also
how that ties to yourphilosophy in education?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Absolutely so.
Essentially, while I wasteaching at that particular, I
taught at the K-12 level beforeI started teaching college.
I taught for 10 years andsimultaneously I'm teaching my
students during the day, butalso I'm now venturing into my
craft of becoming a DJ.
This served a couple ofdifferent purposes.
(11:38):
Number one it's something thatI've wanted to do since high
school and so now, havinggraduated college with a little
bit of regular income, I couldinvest.
I was like a legit, real DJ.
I had records and technique1200s.
It wasn't like one of thosevirtual DJs pushing, no, we're
like scratching and mixing realstuff.
And on top of that, of course,there was an income component to
(12:01):
it.
So I'm supplementing my incomea little bit.
It had its advantages, butthere was a steep learning curve
.
Paul like seriously, for anybodywho just thinks that you can
just get in front of a crowd andjust play anything you are, I
learned the hard way more thanonce that what it takes to
literally like Eric B and Rakim,move the crowd is not as easy
(12:24):
as it looks.
So I'm learning and growingeach and every day.
In Rakim I used their Duke thatthey were like a dynamic early
(12:45):
duo in hip hop because one wasthe DJ, one was the emcee, but
for me I was both.
So I'm doing the music and I'mon the mic.
So I had to learn how tocontrol crowds.
That I did not know.
I had to get up there and learnand get comfortable very fast
with creating an environment upthere and learn and get
(13:07):
comfortable very fast withcreating an environment.
And so, as I'm discovering this, I'm growing and learning in
this profession.
But I'm like hold on, I have todo the same thing in the
classroom.
But I said I have advantage inthe classroom, At least when I'm
DJing, like I'm at a club or abar mitzvah, a retirement party,
whatever it may be.
I don't know those people.
So I have to do a lot of inthat classroom.
(13:29):
I know them, I know, or atleast I should.
That's a different story, but Ihave an advantage.
But even without that, justthinking at the surface level, I
started to understand that whenI'm in the classroom or when
I'm in the club, I'm trying todo the same exact thing.
I'm operating as a source ofmotivation.
I'm making real time decisions.
(13:50):
I'm also in a one to manyenvironment.
I'm also curating specificcontent.
I'm using creativity becauseI'm breathing life into those
lessons.
I'm breathing life into thosesongs, I'm blending, I'm
literally creating an experiencefor my kids and for those
people that are in that club.
And that epiphany, if you will,started to resonate with me and
(14:14):
I started to think of my roleand responsibility in the
learning environment.
A lot, a lot different and again, the advantage that I had in
the classroom was that I knewthem.
I knew them, they knew me.
So, like some of the bestexperiences at the club, it's
(14:35):
like you know you're going to aclub in, like Cape Capri, so I'm
just using somebody randomly,you know what he's going to do,
because you understand a littlebit about his style.
Like I grew up in New York, sothere's certain DJs that you
hear regularly Funkmaster, flex,all of these on the radio.
You kind of have anunderstanding of what it is, so
there's a certain level ofanticipation.
(14:56):
But me I'm just like a local DJ, so I don't know these people
within that classroom.
I know them, they know me, Iknow what I'm going to get from
them and they know what they'regoing to get from me.
So I just sprinkled that inevery single learning experience
that I could with thatmentality and, as you said, made
that shift to kind of think ofthe learning environment as a
(15:17):
place where I can create thatexperience and blend those
things for my students.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Sorry for the interruption.
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Now back to the episode, and Iyou know the part that hit home
(16:06):
the most for me was knowing yourstudents.
I think that's an honestquestion that teachers have to
ask themselves, not even justteachers, principals Like let's
even take it a step further.
Do teachers you know a teacherthat's listening?
The question I would ask you topause this podcast listen to is
that you're listening at.
Do you know your students Totake it one step further to the
school leaders that arelistening?
Do you know your students totake it one step further to the
(16:28):
school leaders that arelistening?
Do you know your staff, likehow can I curate a playlist in
my classroom or a playlist in myschool.
It would be like me walkinginto a room as a hip hop DJ, but
my whole audience is countryfans.
Like, do you know what connectswith your students?
Because if you do or if youdon't, you're going to be
(16:50):
playing music that they don'twant to listen to.
You know?
Do you know, as a school leader, what connects with your staff?
Like, do we actually know whowe are serving on a day to day
basis?
And I think that is the aspectthat I find often gets missed
because we're busy as educators.
Anyone listening knows thatyou're busy.
Like we don't have a lot oftime, but are we just learning
(17:13):
about the people around us onthe surface level?
Are you and our Dr Woodley andI in the same building and we're
just doing those drive-bys likehey, how you doing Good, nice
to see you, and we just blowpast each other and we don't
know anything?
Or are we like man, what didyou do this weekend?
Like I try to make a point inour school when I see kids in
the morning and I'm talking tothem, not just say, hey, how are
you doing?
That's the standard andeveryone always says good.
(17:34):
Even if they're doing bad, theysay, good, that's just how we
are as a society right now.
But I try to ask them what didyou do over the weekend?
What did you do last night?
How does your mornings look?
Because you can learn a lot whenyou find out like some kids are
like oh, I didn't get to doanything.
So you're like, okay, maybesomething's going on at home,
maybe their parents aren'taround, maybe they don't have as
(17:56):
many friends as I thought.
So I think some of it is reallygetting to know the people that
we not only serve as a teacherbut serve as leadership or work
side by side teachers andteachers.
Like are we actually askingquestions to find out who the
people are so we can really gearwhatever our quote unquote
(18:17):
playlist is for them?
You know, to make sure thatwe're connecting with them.
You're not going to playcountry in a club.
They're going to be looking atyou like what's going on?
Like like you clearly don'tknow what class you walked into.
So you know.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
That's the part that I was hearing and and and you're
spot on, and what that alsomakes me think of is just like,
even like our interactions, likewhat you're saying.
I saw that when I first met youthe first time that we had the
opportunity to meet at thatconference in person, and then
we stayed in touch and everytime, like you, make it a point
(18:52):
to go out of your way hey, howyou doing what's going on, like
it's beyond the surface and it'snot hard to tell the type of
leader that you are for thoseeducators that you serve, and so
it is very abundant educatorsthat you serve, and so it is
very abundant.
Like, without having everstepped foot in your building, I
can make a pretty educatedguess as to what the environment
and what it feels like in therefor those educators.
(19:14):
Going a step further, goingback to what I mentioned before
one of the things that I don'treally get to mention this often
but what that experienceallowed me to do and this kind
of speaks to something that youmentioned before that is that me
treating the classroom in thatway, but that analogy of, like
(19:35):
the teaching and the DJing, whatthat ultimately allowed me to
do was for lack of a betterphrase, in a moment I gave
myself permission to be justSean and teach, and me not
having to fit inside that moldof what I thought teaching
(19:58):
should look like, especially inan urban school, giving myself
like it's stressful and it'senergy draining, trying to be
somebody else.
And I was doing that every day,because me laying the iron,
like me teaching with an ironfist, is not who I am as a
person.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, but yeah, it shocked me when you said that
bro yeah I was like you likethat.
That's not the energy I getfrom you yeah, yeah, now, don't
get me wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
When I need to, I can turn it on, but I turned it on
and did not turn it off.
That was the problem, becausethat is who I was supposed to.
That's who I thought I wassupposed to be and you're
exactly right, it was.
I'm leaving there tired everyday because I'm putting so much
energy into trying to besomebody who I'm not.
And when I had that experiencewith that student's parent who
(20:48):
called me, on top ofunderstanding my just personal
and professional growth in bothof those roles, it was
liberating to go into theclassroom and be me.
I'm still growing, don't get mewrong.
I'm still advancing in my field, in my practice as an educator,
but I'm doing it on my termsand now I can do it without
(21:09):
basically draining myself everysingle opportunity.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, and I think there's this huge I don't think
I know there's this hugemisconception, especially when
you're dealing with black andbrown students in schools.
What?
you were sharing is we have thisperception that we have to be
tough on them.
What you're, what you weresharing is, you know, we have
this perception that we have tobe tough on them, especially
black and Brown males, Like wehave to be so hard and tough on
them.
And what I learned and I alsowas a leader that has made that
(21:34):
mistake I was like do as I say,not as I do.
Like I have this titlesexecutive director.
Everyone should be listening tome.
I'm the teacher in this class.
You all should be listening tome.
And it's like when I started toapproach our students with love
and our staff members with love, it changed how I was received
as a leader.
Like I had a lot of growing todo as a leader, and some of it
(21:58):
again is just a mindset shift.
There's this, there's thismoment that I really felt myself
growing.
There was a staff member in ourbuilding this was some years
back and one of the otherteachers was like yeah, they
have something that they want toshare, they have a good idea,
and my response to that staffmember is like why won't they
share it with me?
Instead of that response, itwas like well, why won't they
(22:18):
just come and talk to me Insteadof thinking like, what have I
done to make them not feelcomfortable bringing this to me?
So I was putting all of it onthem, Like you have something to
say and a great idea, bring itto me.
But I had not created awelcoming space.
I was not a welcoming leader.
We're bringing bringing a greatidea.
(22:40):
Like someone was scared tobring me a great idea.
Like I hear that now and that'scrazy and I'm still not perfect
.
To bring me a great idea.
I hear that now and that'scrazy, and I'm still not perfect
.
But the mentality shift for mewas what have I done for that
staff member to not feel safebringing a great idea to me?
It's not like they're bringinga hey, this is a problem, this
was a great idea and they didn'tfeel safe.
(23:00):
So I think that for me as aleader, was a big shift, and I
think that's a shift that someteachers can make.
We get offended when a studenthas a concern.
What I've learned is I ask themis there something going on?
They'll be like yeah, and I'llask them do you want to talk to
me about it?
And they may say no, and I usedto always get offended.
(23:21):
But then once you understand astudent may not always feel safe
, no matter how hard I've tried.
But then my, you understandlike a student may not always
feel safe, no matter how hardI've tried.
But then my next question is isthere someone that you do want
to talk to?
Who would you like to sharethat with Versus?
Originally, when I got intoleadership, I would almost get
offended if I was like Sean,what's going on?
You're like it's a rough day,you want to talk?
No, what do you mean?
You don't want to talk, Like,come on, want to talk, Come on,
(23:47):
and you force them to talk.
That's not a safe learningenvironment for any student.
And that was a growth for me ofwhat can I control?
What type of spaces have Icreated for our students, for
our staff?
And if they are not comfortablecoming to me, what can I do
better?
Not, what should they do.
What can I do better to createthat space for them to feel
(24:08):
comfortable sharing?
And I think that's one of thebiggest downfalls that I've
heard in leadership.
When I talk to teachers and I'mlike what are some of the
things going on in your school?
It's they don't feel heard bytheir leadership, and that's a
problem.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And what you're saying.
That level of self-awareness,under that umbrella of emotional
intelligence is so big.
And one of the things that Iwholeheartedly believe is
criminal is that there isn'tenough emphasis for us as
educators period, regardless ofwhether you're building leader,
(24:44):
district leader, classroomleader there isn't enough
emphasis put on that, the art ofwhat it means to be self-aware,
to manage your emotions, tomanage relationships with others
.
There's an art to that and ascience too, but that and the
influence that that has on notjust student engagement but
(25:05):
managing the learningenvironment and proactively
preventing situations that couldgo wrong, because inherently,
school system gets very isolated.
We are relational beings, we'renot meant to be alone.
But if you look at theconstruction of the schools like
not the physical constructionbut the structure that is the
institution of K-12 learning andyou already mentioned this
(25:28):
Straight rows, we sit byourselves, we test by ourselves,
we learn by ourselves.
I might be sitting physicallynext to someone, but the
expectation, in the generalscheme of things it's very
isolated and the psychologicalimpact of that does not fit into
how human beings grow and justhuman behavior basics.
(25:50):
And this is we wonder why wehave so many classroom
management issues is because somuch of what is the fabric of
K-12 education triggers humanresistance because it goes
against survival instincts forus to be together, for us, like
there are so many, there arejust so many issues and it, if
we just allow teachers theopportunity and that's one of
(26:13):
the things that I really take, Ireally make sure that I put a
good amount of effort intohelping teachers understand is
to go beyond the lesson plan.
What is it on an emotionallevel?
What is it on an emotionallevel?
What is it on a cognitive level?
What about the behavior science?
What about the sociology of it?
What about the communicationaspects of it?
(26:34):
What about even the like?
There are so many differentlayers that so many of us are
not taught and or educated withand we wonder why.
You look at the data and it'slike we're not excelling and
achieving.
Well, yeah, we have a job whereour role is to put information
(26:54):
in students brains, but we'renot taught how our brains work.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Like, think about that that is absolutely criminal
to me and I also feel that,more so in the last however many
years I don't even know howmany, but I feel like society,
slowly and slowly, is puttingmore and more on the educators,
like they want us to be theteacher, they want us to be the
(27:21):
psychologist, they want us to bethe parent, they want us to be
the doctor, they want us to bethe social worker and then we're
wondering why our educators areburning out.
It's like we're asking anddemanding more and more and more
of the educators but like, whendo we get an opportunity to
actually teach?
You know, and I think a lot ofthat has been such a big
(27:42):
challenge for educators.
And I see this, just you, this,just when I post stuff on
TikTok or on Instagram and youhear teachers responding.
I see the videos that teachersare responding to and the one
that gets the most comments isthe ones where teachers are just
like I've been doing thisforever and I am spent.
I saw a comment the other dayand it was like I've been doing
this for 20 years and I don'tknow if I can do it another day.
(28:04):
Like that is where we haveallowed our staff and our adults
to get to, because we're notequipping them, and that's kind
of what I'm hearing you say.
It's like we're asking them todo things that they're not fully
equipped to do, and whetherthat's something that needs to
be an adjustment in the collegespace.
We're like are there otherthings that, as we're training
(28:28):
teachers, like classroommanagement?
There's never classes on stufflike that.
We just expect people to walkin and know how to teach and
know how to manage people.
So it's like how do we solvethis problem now, Because we're
going to continue to loseteachers.
But I've also seen teachersthat you know a pair that has a
(28:51):
high school degree that canmanage a classroom better than
someone that has a doctoratedegree.
Yeah, and it's all like there'sjust some natural skills that
some people have, but I alsothink there's some skills that
people can learn, but instead oflearning by fire, like how do
we proactively the same thingyou're saying with the students,
how do we proactively prepareour teachers to manage students
(29:16):
where they are not, trying tomake students meet the adults
where they are?
What would you suggest would bea solution?
And I know I'm sure this is a20-hour conversation of how we
can make these changes, but whatis something that you think is
something that we can startdoing in the educational space
to help our teachers?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
So you speak to a couple of things directly and
you are correct.
This is a conversation thatcould go in a number of
different directions for anumber of hours, but at its
foundation, we have to helppeople unlearn what it is that
we've come to know as teaching,because that has been proven not
to work, but yet we still,because for most of us it is all
(30:01):
that we know we continue to doit and so unlearning what we've
come to understand as teaching,and then going beyond with
explicit and detailedinstruction and learning on the
different functions of how thebrain works, the different
functions of our emotionalintelligence and how that
(30:22):
relates to instruction, thedifferent functions of various
aspects of psychology andcommunication, the different
functions of what it takes toeven you can have all of those
advanced things, but even thebasics start with the basics.
Help someone to understand anddon't assume that they know how
(30:42):
to create rules, how to createprocedures, and that procedures
need to be taught.
They need to be practiced, theyneed to be practiced.
We're talking about practice.
Yes, we're talking aboutpractice.
They need to be practiced.
You know what I'm saying andsometimes I just did some
walkthroughs at a school justlast week and we have a lot of.
In that particular school, youhad educators about a dozen of
(31:06):
them who were career switchers,who wanted to get into teaching
and, for lack of a better term,just thrown into the classroom
and currently going throughtheir coursework but were not
taught the basics of classroommanagement.
(31:29):
Being like that can bedemoralizing to somebody who is
coming into something where yourheart and soul is in it but
you're failing out the gate.
These are people who who maynot have had some people have
that natural instinct, like youmentioned, but some they can be
taught.
Some have that natural instinct, but the rest can be taught,
because these things are skills.
They're not inherent traitsthat you just have or you don't.
(31:49):
They're skills that can belearned.
And so I wholeheartedly believe, going back to your original
question, that if we wereexplicitly taught these things,
then we can transform whatteaching and learning looks like
, so that this extraordinarygift that we've come to know as
education can literally takeeach and every child and unlock
(32:10):
their intellectual treasure andexpose them to great potential
that they probably don't evenrealize that they have.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, I love it, so we're going to get.
I want to ask one more questionas we get ready to land this
plane.
I want one piece of advice thatyou would give to an educator
that may be struggling withclassroom management or
classroom engagement.
What is?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
one and again.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I like that you said the basics, because I'm the same
way when I work with educators.
It's like if we can't do thebasic things right, we can't do
the advanced stuff.
It's like trying to do longdivision but you don't even know
how to add and subtract.
So what is just one basic thingthat an educator can do,
starting now, if they're havingsome challenges with classroom
management in their school ormaybe it's a school leader
(32:58):
that's struggling what's onebasic piece of advice that you
would give that educator that'slistening to this?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
There are a couple of different things.
You said one.
All right, let me narrow itdown to one.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Listen, we'll give them a bonus.
Give us two, give us a bonustoday.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
All right, I'll give you two.
I'll challenge them to thinkabout it in these terms.
Number one, from aself-reflective aspect what is
it that you are doing to grow?
I ask that question, althoughit seems simple at its surface.
So many of us go into teachingwith the assumption that growth
is automatic and you have to beintentional about how you grow.
(33:37):
You know when you go into thatclassroom what it is that you're
struggling with.
Example, if you know thatyou're having a difficult time
getting your students' attention, that's a very easy indicator
of something that you can focuson.
So what is it that you can read?
What is it that?
Who is?
(33:58):
Who is someone that you can ask?
And then that goes into mysecond one, the who, the bonus
one we are a product of.
Basically, I'll say it this way, and you've probably heard this
before you show me the fivepeople you hang around most.
I can show you your future.
We all have that teacher clickthat we hang around, but what
(34:20):
many of us do not realize isthat those people influence you
a lot more than you think you do.
And so if those people that arearound you, if there are people
that constantly talk about thisgroup of students and this
group of parents and how justthe complaining corner?
And yeah, we all need to airour grievances every while.
(34:42):
But every conversation, everyconversation is something bad
Really Like.
That is a good indication ofwhere you are going and how it's
going to shape your worldview,whether you realize it or not.
Making a switch there andmaking sure you are being
influenced by someone withstrong instruction, strong
(35:03):
relationship skills with strong,by someone with strong
instruction, strong inrelationship skills with strong.
I mean just you can, whateverit is, and put those five people
around you and be intentionalwith that and watch how you soar
.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
And I would even challenge them to take a step
further.
Not even just the people youhang out with at school.
The people you hang out withyou're not at school Because
when you're not at work and youwant to recharge your battery
are you around negative people?
That is just a life.
I don't care if you'relistening and you're not a
teacher.
Whatever you do for a living,if you are spending time around
(35:35):
people that are constantlynegative, it's going to drain
you.
Life is going to drain youenough.
Make sure that you are pickingpeople Like you said.
I'm not complaining, I'mexplaining.
'm explaining sometimes.
Yes, we got to get some thingsoff our chest, but if everything
is drag, dragging you down,it's like having an eeyore.
You know you can either have aneeyore or a piglet.
Piglet was positive.
He was like we can do this.
(35:56):
Poo eeyore.
Like come on, poo, we're backat work again.
Standardized testing here itcomes.
Like what type of energy andwhat type of folks you keep
around you.
I think that's a lesson in thebuilding and out of the building
one.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
So what I want to do?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
to close, I got some.
I got some, uh, some quick firequestions for you, so I hope
you're ready.
We are going to do these musicthemed, so the quick fire
questions as we get ready toclose.
You can only listen to onemusic artist ever again.
Who is that artist?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Oh man, in the spirit of musicianship, I'm going to
go.
Bruno Mars.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Bruno Mars.
I like it.
Okay, yeah, the second questionthe best music themed movie
ever Any.
It doesn't have to be like amusical, but the best music
themed movie ever any, itdoesn't have to be like a
musical, but the best musicthemed movie ever.
I know what my answer is andI'll share mine when you're done
off the top.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I'm just thinking of the, the artistry, the talent
and just the overall impact.
I probably have to say Ray.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Ooh, that is a good one.
That was a very good movie.
So my answer was Sister Act 2.
I just love Sister MaryClarence, like she just has that
, that energy that.
I agree that was the movie thatchanged not changed Jamie
Foxx's career, but it allowedyou to see that he's not just
some goofball.
Yes, and I was like, wow,talent he killed that Pure
(37:33):
talent, top to bottom.
Love it.
I was not even thinking that,so that was a good one.
The last question I have thisone's going to be a little
tougher, okay, a little tougher,okay, if you could.
So I want an album title thatwould describe your educational
(37:53):
career.
So any, it doesn't have to bealbum, just the album title that
would describe your educationalcareer life after death life
after death that experience thatI had, the old me.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I laid him to rest and move forward with the new
Sean and a new dawn of education.
Let's go ahead and stop itright there.
Life after death, that's it.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
That's it.
That's it, dr Woolley man.
I appreciate so much forjumping on.
I want to give you anopportunity for those that are
listening and wondering whereyou can connect.
If you are listening andwatching this on YouTube, all of
this information will be in thedescription.
Please go check them out.
But can you just let everyoneknow it's listening, where they
can find you, where they can getthese hoodies, bro?
(38:36):
I'll be honest with you, I getmore compliments when I wear
this hoodie than when I wearanything else.
I'm not even kidding you, bro.
This hoodie, not only does itlook good, bro, it's comfortable
.
I'm a hoodies guy.
Oh man, I appreciate thatYou've done it.
I wish I had a piece of thebrand.
I'll be honest with you as abusinessman.
I wish it was mine.
(39:00):
But I love that rep becauseit's yours.
But yeah, let everyone knowwhere they can find you, where
they can follow you on socialmedia, your website, all of that
information.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
I want to give you the opportunity to do that right
now.
Yes, sir, before I do that, Iwant to thank you again for the
opportunity to have thisconversation, what you are doing
and the work that you areputting out there and the impact
that you are having.
Chef's kiss to you, brother.
Thank you, real talk.
I appreciate you, but you canfind me at all things Teach
Hustle Inspireteachhustleinspirecom Instagram.
Teach Hustle Inspireteachhustleinspirecom Instagram
threads.
(39:26):
At teachhustleinspire Facebook.
At teachhustleinspire Twitteror X, if you want to call it
that.
It's at Sean Woodley, my firstand last name, and anywhere,
usually most educationconferences.
I go to a lot of educationconferences, but I work with a
lot of schools in various partsof the country, so I'm on the
(39:48):
road a lot, but I'm on socialmedia pretty much every single
day in some way, shape or form,and I'd love to connect with you
.
Holler, at me, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Man.
If you are listening, I cannotencourage you enough to find a
conference that he is at, reachout to him, bring him in front
of your educators.
The hour I have seen himpresent can change the culture
in your school.
I would encourage you toconnect with them, follow them
(40:16):
on social media.
And as I get ready to close, Iwant to make sure I take a
second to thank our sponsor, beWell Teacher Box, a gift box
made for teachers by teachers tohelp them focus on their
self-care.
Wwwbewellteachercom.
Use code TEACHERSED to save $7.
Dr Woodley, I appreciate youjumping on.
(40:36):
I appreciate you all forlistening.
Make sure you like, make sureyou subscribe, make sure you
leave us a review, make sure yougo, follow Dr Woodley, make
sure you buy one of thesehoodies so you can wrap it
alongside of us.
Um, and until next sunday, makesure you guys take care of
yourselves and have anincredible week.
Welcome to the Teachers Ed podcast.
I'm your host, edward DeShazer.
Teachers Ed podcast was createdto be a thought space for the
best I almost said the best thebest and brightest in education
to come to learn, to connect, toinspire and to grow.
Today's guest today.
I am honored.
(00:32):
Let me read his bio.
Today's guest today is Dr SeanWoodley.
He is charged with anunstoppable passion for
education.
Dr Sean Woodley, a HamptonUniversity alum, has left marks
on every rung of the academicladder, from a dedicated K-12
teacher to an inspiringuniversity professor.
His journey is fueled by acommitment to transform
(00:53):
education.
Celebrated as Teacher of theYear and the recipient of
several awards for hisexceptional teaching, dr
Woodley's accolades are atestament to his remarkable
influence, pioneering new pathsto the highest levels of
achievement in urban andculturally diverse schools.
Dr Woodley is the visionaryarchitect of the transformative
(01:14):
movement Teach, hustle, inspire.
For those looking at YouTube, Iam repping his hoodie.
It's one of the dopest hoodiesout there.
I'll give you an opportunity tofind out where you can get that
later.
He is also a two-timebestselling author of MC Means
Move the Class how to SparkEngagement and Motivation in
Urban and Culturally DiverseClassrooms, as well as the
League of ExtraordinaryEducators the Secret Strategies
(01:37):
of Transformational Teachers.
Dr Woodley strives to redefineteaching and learning experience
in urban and culturally diverseschools so that the
extraordinary gift thateducators unlocks the potential
of every student in everyclassroom, regardless of the
circumstances.
I have had the privilege to hearDr Woodley speak several times.
(01:57):
If you are not in education,you will understand after this
conversation why you need to befollowing him.
Why you need to be followinghim, why you need to hear him
speak, why you need to get intouch with him.
He is incredible, dr Woodley.
I appreciate you jumping on man.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh man, I don't even know what to say after that,
brother.
Thank you very, very much, mygood man Edward.
It's an absolute pleasure tojoin you.
I appreciate the invitationAlways.
I could talk about this stuffforward and backwards all day,
so you just let me know I'mready to do it.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah.
So where the space I want us tokind of really, you know I've
heard you speak classroommanagement, student engagement
are two of those spaces whereI've just I know, and the thing
is they're both kind of hand inhand, Like if you get students
engaged your management becomesa little easier.
So really, I guess the start Igave an introduction Can you
(02:49):
just kind of let people know, ifyou can, the story that I want
you to share is the justbasically how you, the story
that you share when you speak toeducators the version I know
I've heard it where you talkabout how you were a DJ and how
(03:10):
you got in the classroom and hadthose challenges.
Can you just share that story?
Because every time I hear thatI think that is the story that
can help shift the mindset of aneducator or a school leader
that's listening today.
So if you can just share alittle bit about yourself and
how you ended up where you arewith this incredible brand of
Teach, Hustle, Inspire,Absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
My path to education.
I started teaching notimmediately out of college.
I did a five-year program whenI was at Hampton, and so I came
out with my master's fullycertified, but I didn't get into
teaching right away.
I took a year before I startedteaching, but when I did get
(03:49):
into the classroom, it wasalmost like what took you so
long?
You should have been here Likethis is where you belong, felt
like I was supposed to be there.
So I get in there, though, andthe school at which I teach it's
about 30 minutes away fromwhere I was living, so I'm not
familiar with this area.
I'm still living.
(04:09):
I went to Hampton, which is inVirginia, so I'm still living in
the Hampton Roads area, but Ihad to go across the water, as
they say, across the bridge,teaching at a school I'm not
familiar with.
So I get into the school, dothe interview, get offered a
position, and I'm stepping intomy calling Again.
What took you so long Before Istart teaching, though?
(04:32):
I get offered their position inOctober, which number one is
not hiring season.
You as a building leader, youknow good and well, right, you
already already know.
So I get offered the positionin october.
October 6th was my first dayteaching, which, for those that
did not catch that, that meansthat somebody was there at the
(04:53):
beginning of the year and quit.
So here I come.
Now also, when I tell people,hey, I'm getting ready to start
teaching.
They're asking me firstquestion oh great, where are you
going to teach?
Tell them the name of theschool.
And then I'm getting ready tostart teaching, they're asking
me first question oh great,where are you going to teach?
Tell them the name of theschool.
And then I'm getting all theseeyebrows like, oh, be careful,
like those types of responsesbecause of the neighborhood
(05:14):
where the school is.
So now I'm taking all of thisin.
I go into that classroom.
In my mind there's only onething that I need to do, because
they just ran that teacher outof the building.
And I'm talking about thesepeople are like this school is
just be careful in their middleschool.
So I go in there with thementality of shutting everything
(05:34):
down and that is exactly what Idid.
Like I've been told that newteacher mantra where you don't
smile to November.
Just just know, I took itentirely too far.
I did not smile privately formy first two years of teaching,
just went in there and was justiron fist.
This is my way or the highwayto get relationships?
(05:57):
None of that.
And I taught that way.
And from the outside it lookedgood, because my classroom was
always one that was very quiet.
For the most part, my classroomwas one that seemed very
compliant.
And again, on the outside itlooked good.
It was something that I held inhigh regard and I wore it
(06:18):
honestly, as a badge of honor.
Until one day I'm sitting in myoffice and one of the parents of
my sixth grade students, shecalls me.
She says hello, how you doing?
I said good, how can I help you?
She's told me plain and simple,very directly.
She said my daughter is scaredin your classroom and I will
never, ever forget that momentfor me because it just hit me as
(06:41):
I walked into that classroomevery day.
I knew exactly what I was doing,but at the same time I didn't
realize the damage that it wascausing For a parent to say that
to me, that I'm literally usingfear as a teaching mechanism
for someone's child.
It just mind you, at that age Ididn't have children yet.
(07:20):
Yeah, literally thestudent-to-prison pipeline.
I'm fitting right into thesystem the way that it wants me
to.
So what that caused me to do wasto step back and make some very
serious changes very, very soon, and I didn't know exactly what
needed to be done.
(07:40):
But I went back to the drawingboard and I started from the
bottom, like literally from dayone, and worked my way back into
what I felt like a teachershould be for students that look
like us.
And what I also did at thattime was it forced me to go back
and figure out okay, hey,clearly this is not the right
(08:03):
way, but what is the right way?
And gradually my students startto have greater levels of
success.
I earned teacher of the year mystudents in the state of
Virginia when you get a blueribbon recognition, that's like
state level.
We did the doggone thing and sothat, in a nutshell, really
just showed me what could bedone for quote, unquote those
(08:25):
kids because they have beenwritten off and still are in a
lot of cases in otherneighborhoods and schools
written off.
But that potential is there.
It just is lying a lot of times, dormant and untapped.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, and you know hearing what you're saying.
There was something I heard aneducator say that you know you
were talking about complianceand there's this big
misconception in education thatcompliance is learning.
A compliant classroom is justat a stalemate.
Me as a teacher, if you justsit and be quiet and don't give
(09:05):
me problems, I'm not going tomake you do nothing, you just we
will both exist while we're inhere and I've seen that in
classrooms and that's such a bigmisconception.
When you tour around buildingsand you think of classroom
management, to me classroommanagement isn't always the
quietest classroom.
Like I'm worried when theclassroom is quiet, unless
(09:27):
there's like reading or studyinglike a quiet classroom isn't
good, like there should betalking, there should be
connecting, there should bestuff going on.
But I think from our generationis you know me being 41, our
generation like a compliantclassroom was considered the
most of the best classroom.
They're all in the straightline, they're all listening.
(09:48):
So I think that, from what I'm,what I hear a lot of times is
that mentality that we got toget out of an education, that
compliance doesn't mean learning.
And that's why I've alwaysgravitated to listening to your
presentations because there'slife in it and there's energy.
And I think what you do is sovaluable for educators because
(10:12):
you model it versus the peopleI've seen present that get up
there and it's like bullet pointone this is what you do.
Bullet point two I think thatis one of the most valuable
things from my opinion of what Ihave seen you do is how you
model that the classrooms can befun.
(10:33):
And I know there's something youtalked about and, if you could
go into a little bit, you talkedabout your experience as a DJ
and how that ties to classroomand student engagement, which
ultimately works along withmanagement.
Can you kind of talk about thata little bit, because I think
what's stopping and this is justmy opinion what is stopping
some educators from beingdynamic, is just a small mindset
(10:55):
shift.
We've seen and operated in thesame space of like straight rows
, compliance, and once aneducator's mindset shifts, I
think there's a lot of growththat'll take place.
So can you kind of talk aboutyour experience as a DJ and also
how that ties to yourphilosophy in education?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Absolutely so.
Essentially, while I wasteaching at that particular, I
taught at the K-12 level beforeI started teaching college.
I taught for 10 years andsimultaneously I'm teaching my
students during the day, butalso I'm now venturing into my
craft of becoming a DJ.
This served a couple ofdifferent purposes.
(11:38):
Number one it's something thatI've wanted to do since high
school and so now, havinggraduated college with a little
bit of regular income, I couldinvest.
I was like a legit, real DJ.
I had records and technique1200s.
It wasn't like one of thosevirtual DJs pushing, no, we're
like scratching and mixing realstuff.
And on top of that, of course,there was an income component to
(12:01):
it.
So I'm supplementing my incomea little bit.
It had its advantages, butthere was a steep learning curve
.
Paul like seriously, for anybodywho just thinks that you can
just get in front of a crowd andjust play anything you are, I
learned the hard way more thanonce that what it takes to
literally like Eric B and Rakim,move the crowd is not as easy
(12:24):
as it looks.
So I'm learning and growingeach and every day.
In Rakim I used their Duke thatthey were like a dynamic early
(12:45):
duo in hip hop because one wasthe DJ, one was the emcee, but
for me I was both.
So I'm doing the music and I'mon the mic.
So I had to learn how tocontrol crowds.
That I did not know.
I had to get up there and learnand get comfortable very fast
with creating an environment upthere and learn and get
(13:07):
comfortable very fast withcreating an environment.
And so, as I'm discovering this, I'm growing and learning in
this profession.
But I'm like hold on, I have todo the same thing in the
classroom.
But I said I have advantage inthe classroom, At least when I'm
DJing, like I'm at a club or abar mitzvah, a retirement party,
whatever it may be.
I don't know those people.
So I have to do a lot of inthat classroom.
(13:29):
I know them, I know, or atleast I should.
That's a different story, but Ihave an advantage.
But even without that, justthinking at the surface level, I
started to understand that whenI'm in the classroom or when
I'm in the club, I'm trying todo the same exact thing.
I'm operating as a source ofmotivation.
I'm making real time decisions.
(13:50):
I'm also in a one to manyenvironment.
I'm also curating specificcontent.
I'm using creativity becauseI'm breathing life into those
lessons.
I'm breathing life into thosesongs, I'm blending, I'm
literally creating an experiencefor my kids and for those
people that are in that club.
And that epiphany, if you will,started to resonate with me and
(14:14):
I started to think of my roleand responsibility in the
learning environment.
A lot, a lot different and again, the advantage that I had in
the classroom was that I knewthem.
I knew them, they knew me.
So, like some of the bestexperiences at the club, it's
(14:35):
like you know you're going to aclub in, like Cape Capri, so I'm
just using somebody randomly,you know what he's going to do,
because you understand a littlebit about his style.
Like I grew up in New York, sothere's certain DJs that you
hear regularly Funkmaster, flex,all of these on the radio.
You kind of have anunderstanding of what it is, so
there's a certain level ofanticipation.
(14:56):
But me I'm just like a local DJ, so I don't know these people
within that classroom.
I know them, they know me, Iknow what I'm going to get from
them and they know what they'regoing to get from me.
So I just sprinkled that inevery single learning experience
that I could with thatmentality and, as you said, made
that shift to kind of think ofthe learning environment as a
(15:17):
place where I can create thatexperience and blend those
things for my students.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Sorry for the interruption.
I want to take a moment torecognize the sponsor of the
Teachers Ed podcast.
Be Well Teacher Box, a gift boxto help teachers intentionally
focus on their wellness.
By using code TEACHERSED, youcan save $7 on your box.
Teachersed all one wordwwwbewellteachercom.
(15:44):
The box has over a hundreddollars in gifts and it's going
on for $52.
By using code teachers thatthere's two books, there's a
candle, some shower steamers,some lotion, uh, and a bag of
coffee.
Get your box today.
Be well teacher boxcom codeteachers that, all one word.
Now back to the episode, and Iyou know the part that hit home
(16:06):
the most for me was knowing yourstudents.
I think that's an honestquestion that teachers have to
ask themselves, not even justteachers, principals Like let's
even take it a step further.
Do teachers you know a teacherthat's listening?
The question I would ask you topause this podcast listen to is
that you're listening at.
Do you know your students Totake it one step further to the
school leaders that arelistening?
Do you know your students totake it one step further to the
(16:28):
school leaders that arelistening?
Do you know your staff, likehow can I curate a playlist in
my classroom or a playlist in myschool.
It would be like me walkinginto a room as a hip hop DJ, but
my whole audience is countryfans.
Like, do you know what connectswith your students?
Because if you do or if youdon't, you're going to be
(16:50):
playing music that they don'twant to listen to.
You know?
Do you know, as a school leader, what connects with your staff?
Like, do we actually know whowe are serving on a day to day
basis?
And I think that is the aspectthat I find often gets missed
because we're busy as educators.
Anyone listening knows thatyou're busy.
Like we don't have a lot oftime, but are we just learning
(17:13):
about the people around us onthe surface level?
Are you and our Dr Woodley andI in the same building and we're
just doing those drive-bys likehey, how you doing Good, nice
to see you, and we just blowpast each other and we don't
know anything?
Or are we like man, what didyou do this weekend?
Like I try to make a point inour school when I see kids in
the morning and I'm talking tothem, not just say, hey, how are
you doing?
That's the standard andeveryone always says good.
(17:34):
Even if they're doing bad, theysay, good, that's just how we
are as a society right now.
But I try to ask them what didyou do over the weekend?
What did you do last night?
How does your mornings look?
Because you can learn a lot whenyou find out like some kids are
like oh, I didn't get to doanything.
So you're like, okay, maybesomething's going on at home,
maybe their parents aren'taround, maybe they don't have as
(17:56):
many friends as I thought.
So I think some of it is reallygetting to know the people that
we not only serve as a teacherbut serve as leadership or work
side by side teachers andteachers.
Like are we actually askingquestions to find out who the
people are so we can really gearwhatever our quote unquote
(18:17):
playlist is for them?
You know, to make sure thatwe're connecting with them.
You're not going to playcountry in a club.
They're going to be looking atyou like what's going on?
Like like you clearly don'tknow what class you walked into.
So you know.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
That's the part that I was hearing and and and you're
spot on, and what that alsomakes me think of is just like,
even like our interactions, likewhat you're saying.
I saw that when I first met youthe first time that we had the
opportunity to meet at thatconference in person, and then
we stayed in touch and everytime, like you, make it a point
(18:52):
to go out of your way hey, howyou doing what's going on, like
it's beyond the surface and it'snot hard to tell the type of
leader that you are for thoseeducators that you serve, and so
it is very abundant educatorsthat you serve, and so it is
very abundant.
Like, without having everstepped foot in your building, I
can make a pretty educatedguess as to what the environment
and what it feels like in therefor those educators.
(19:14):
Going a step further, goingback to what I mentioned before
one of the things that I don'treally get to mention this often
but what that experienceallowed me to do and this kind
of speaks to something that youmentioned before that is that me
treating the classroom in thatway, but that analogy of, like
(19:35):
the teaching and the DJing, whatthat ultimately allowed me to
do was for lack of a betterphrase, in a moment I gave
myself permission to be justSean and teach, and me not
having to fit inside that moldof what I thought teaching
(19:58):
should look like, especially inan urban school, giving myself
like it's stressful and it'senergy draining, trying to be
somebody else.
And I was doing that every day,because me laying the iron,
like me teaching with an ironfist, is not who I am as a
person.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, but yeah, it shocked me when you said that
bro yeah I was like you likethat.
That's not the energy I getfrom you yeah, yeah, now, don't
get me wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
When I need to, I can turn it on, but I turned it on
and did not turn it off.
That was the problem, becausethat is who I was supposed to.
That's who I thought I wassupposed to be and you're
exactly right, it was.
I'm leaving there tired everyday because I'm putting so much
energy into trying to besomebody who I'm not.
And when I had that experiencewith that student's parent who
(20:48):
called me, on top ofunderstanding my just personal
and professional growth in bothof those roles, it was
liberating to go into theclassroom and be me.
I'm still growing, don't get mewrong.
I'm still advancing in my field, in my practice as an educator,
but I'm doing it on my termsand now I can do it without
(21:09):
basically draining myself everysingle opportunity.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, and I think there's this huge I don't think
I know there's this hugemisconception, especially when
you're dealing with black andbrown students in schools.
What?
you were sharing is we have thisperception that we have to be
tough on them.
What you're, what you weresharing is, you know, we have
this perception that we have tobe tough on them, especially
black and Brown males, Like wehave to be so hard and tough on
them.
And what I learned and I alsowas a leader that has made that
(21:34):
mistake I was like do as I say,not as I do.
Like I have this titlesexecutive director.
Everyone should be listening tome.
I'm the teacher in this class.
You all should be listening tome.
And it's like when I started toapproach our students with love
and our staff members with love, it changed how I was received
as a leader.
Like I had a lot of growing todo as a leader, and some of it
(21:58):
again is just a mindset shift.
There's this, there's thismoment that I really felt myself
growing.
There was a staff member in ourbuilding this was some years
back and one of the otherteachers was like yeah, they
have something that they want toshare, they have a good idea,
and my response to that staffmember is like why won't they
share it with me?
Instead of that response, itwas like well, why won't they
(22:18):
just come and talk to me Insteadof thinking like, what have I
done to make them not feelcomfortable bringing this to me?
So I was putting all of it onthem, Like you have something to
say and a great idea, bring itto me.
But I had not created awelcoming space.
I was not a welcoming leader.
We're bringing bringing a greatidea.
(22:40):
Like someone was scared tobring me a great idea.
Like I hear that now and that'scrazy and I'm still not perfect
.
To bring me a great idea.
I hear that now and that'scrazy, and I'm still not perfect
.
But the mentality shift for mewas what have I done for that
staff member to not feel safebringing a great idea to me?
It's not like they're bringinga hey, this is a problem, this
was a great idea and they didn'tfeel safe.
(23:00):
So I think that for me as aleader, was a big shift, and I
think that's a shift that someteachers can make.
We get offended when a studenthas a concern.
What I've learned is I ask themis there something going on?
They'll be like yeah, and I'llask them do you want to talk to
me about it?
And they may say no, and I usedto always get offended.
(23:21):
But then once you understand astudent may not always feel safe
, no matter how hard I've tried.
But then my, you understandlike a student may not always
feel safe, no matter how hardI've tried.
But then my next question is isthere someone that you do want
to talk to?
Who would you like to sharethat with Versus?
Originally, when I got intoleadership, I would almost get
offended if I was like Sean,what's going on?
You're like it's a rough day,you want to talk?
No, what do you mean?
You don't want to talk, Like,come on, want to talk, Come on,
(23:47):
and you force them to talk.
That's not a safe learningenvironment for any student.
And that was a growth for me ofwhat can I control?
What type of spaces have Icreated for our students, for
our staff?
And if they are not comfortablecoming to me, what can I do
better?
Not, what should they do.
What can I do better to createthat space for them to feel
(24:08):
comfortable sharing?
And I think that's one of thebiggest downfalls that I've
heard in leadership.
When I talk to teachers and I'mlike what are some of the
things going on in your school?
It's they don't feel heard bytheir leadership, and that's a
problem.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And what you're saying.
That level of self-awareness,under that umbrella of emotional
intelligence is so big.
And one of the things that Iwholeheartedly believe is
criminal is that there isn'tenough emphasis for us as
educators period, regardless ofwhether you're building leader,
(24:44):
district leader, classroomleader there isn't enough
emphasis put on that, the art ofwhat it means to be self-aware,
to manage your emotions, tomanage relationships with others
.
There's an art to that and ascience too, but that and the
influence that that has on notjust student engagement but
(25:05):
managing the learningenvironment and proactively
preventing situations that couldgo wrong, because inherently,
school system gets very isolated.
We are relational beings, we'renot meant to be alone.
But if you look at theconstruction of the schools like
not the physical constructionbut the structure that is the
institution of K-12 learning andyou already mentioned this
(25:28):
Straight rows, we sit byourselves, we test by ourselves,
we learn by ourselves.
I might be sitting physicallynext to someone, but the
expectation, in the generalscheme of things it's very
isolated and the psychologicalimpact of that does not fit into
how human beings grow and justhuman behavior basics.
(25:50):
And this is we wonder why wehave so many classroom
management issues is because somuch of what is the fabric of
K-12 education triggers humanresistance because it goes
against survival instincts forus to be together, for us, like
there are so many, there arejust so many issues and it, if
we just allow teachers theopportunity and that's one of
(26:13):
the things that I really take, Ireally make sure that I put a
good amount of effort intohelping teachers understand is
to go beyond the lesson plan.
What is it on an emotionallevel?
What is it on an emotionallevel?
What is it on a cognitive level?
What about the behavior science?
What about the sociology of it?
What about the communicationaspects of it?
(26:34):
What about even the like?
There are so many differentlayers that so many of us are
not taught and or educated withand we wonder why.
You look at the data and it'slike we're not excelling and
achieving.
Well, yeah, we have a job whereour role is to put information
(26:54):
in students brains, but we'renot taught how our brains work.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Like, think about that that is absolutely criminal
to me and I also feel that,more so in the last however many
years I don't even know howmany, but I feel like society,
slowly and slowly, is puttingmore and more on the educators,
like they want us to be theteacher, they want us to be the
(27:21):
psychologist, they want us to bethe parent, they want us to be
the doctor, they want us to bethe social worker and then we're
wondering why our educators areburning out.
It's like we're asking anddemanding more and more and more
of the educators but like, whendo we get an opportunity to
actually teach?
You know, and I think a lot ofthat has been such a big
(27:42):
challenge for educators.
And I see this, just you, this,just when I post stuff on
TikTok or on Instagram and youhear teachers responding.
I see the videos that teachersare responding to and the one
that gets the most comments isthe ones where teachers are just
like I've been doing thisforever and I am spent.
I saw a comment the other dayand it was like I've been doing
this for 20 years and I don'tknow if I can do it another day.
(28:04):
Like that is where we haveallowed our staff and our adults
to get to, because we're notequipping them, and that's kind
of what I'm hearing you say.
It's like we're asking them todo things that they're not fully
equipped to do, and whetherthat's something that needs to
be an adjustment in the collegespace.
We're like are there otherthings that, as we're training
(28:28):
teachers, like classroommanagement?
There's never classes on stufflike that.
We just expect people to walkin and know how to teach and
know how to manage people.
So it's like how do we solvethis problem now, Because we're
going to continue to loseteachers.
But I've also seen teachersthat you know a pair that has a
(28:51):
high school degree that canmanage a classroom better than
someone that has a doctoratedegree.
Yeah, and it's all like there'sjust some natural skills that
some people have, but I alsothink there's some skills that
people can learn, but instead oflearning by fire, like how do
we proactively the same thingyou're saying with the students,
how do we proactively prepareour teachers to manage students
(29:16):
where they are not, trying tomake students meet the adults
where they are?
What would you suggest would bea solution?
And I know I'm sure this is a20-hour conversation of how we
can make these changes, but whatis something that you think is
something that we can startdoing in the educational space
to help our teachers?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
So you speak to a couple of things directly and
you are correct.
This is a conversation thatcould go in a number of
different directions for anumber of hours, but at its
foundation, we have to helppeople unlearn what it is that
we've come to know as teaching,because that has been proven not
to work, but yet we still,because for most of us it is all
(30:01):
that we know we continue to doit and so unlearning what we've
come to understand as teaching,and then going beyond with
explicit and detailedinstruction and learning on the
different functions of how thebrain works, the different
functions of our emotionalintelligence and how that
(30:22):
relates to instruction, thedifferent functions of various
aspects of psychology andcommunication, the different
functions of what it takes toeven you can have all of those
advanced things, but even thebasics start with the basics.
Help someone to understand anddon't assume that they know how
(30:42):
to create rules, how to createprocedures, and that procedures
need to be taught.
They need to be practiced, theyneed to be practiced.
We're talking about practice.
Yes, we're talking aboutpractice.
They need to be practiced.
You know what I'm saying andsometimes I just did some
walkthroughs at a school justlast week and we have a lot of.
In that particular school, youhad educators about a dozen of
(31:06):
them who were career switchers,who wanted to get into teaching
and, for lack of a better term,just thrown into the classroom
and currently going throughtheir coursework but were not
taught the basics of classroommanagement.
(31:29):
Being like that can bedemoralizing to somebody who is
coming into something where yourheart and soul is in it but
you're failing out the gate.
These are people who who maynot have had some people have
that natural instinct, like youmentioned, but some they can be
taught.
Some have that natural instinct, but the rest can be taught,
because these things are skills.
They're not inherent traitsthat you just have or you don't.
(31:49):
They're skills that can belearned.
And so I wholeheartedly believe, going back to your original
question, that if we wereexplicitly taught these things,
then we can transform whatteaching and learning looks like
, so that this extraordinarygift that we've come to know as
education can literally takeeach and every child and unlock
(32:10):
their intellectual treasure andexpose them to great potential
that they probably don't evenrealize that they have.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, I love it, so we're going to get.
I want to ask one more questionas we get ready to land this
plane.
I want one piece of advice thatyou would give to an educator
that may be struggling withclassroom management or
classroom engagement.
What is?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
one and again.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I like that you said the basics, because I'm the same
way when I work with educators.
It's like if we can't do thebasic things right, we can't do
the advanced stuff.
It's like trying to do longdivision but you don't even know
how to add and subtract.
So what is just one basic thingthat an educator can do,
starting now, if they're havingsome challenges with classroom
management in their school ormaybe it's a school leader
(32:58):
that's struggling what's onebasic piece of advice that you
would give that educator that'slistening to this?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
There are a couple of different things.
You said one.
All right, let me narrow itdown to one.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Listen, we'll give them a bonus.
Give us two, give us a bonustoday.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
All right, I'll give you two.
I'll challenge them to thinkabout it in these terms.
Number one, from aself-reflective aspect what is
it that you are doing to grow?
I ask that question, althoughit seems simple at its surface.
So many of us go into teachingwith the assumption that growth
is automatic and you have to beintentional about how you grow.
(33:37):
You know when you go into thatclassroom what it is that you're
struggling with.
Example, if you know thatyou're having a difficult time
getting your students' attention, that's a very easy indicator
of something that you can focuson.
So what is it that you can read?
What is it that?
Who is?
(33:58):
Who is someone that you can ask?
And then that goes into mysecond one, the who, the bonus
one we are a product of.
Basically, I'll say it this way, and you've probably heard this
before you show me the fivepeople you hang around most.
I can show you your future.
We all have that teacher clickthat we hang around, but what
(34:20):
many of us do not realize isthat those people influence you
a lot more than you think you do.
And so if those people that arearound you, if there are people
that constantly talk about thisgroup of students and this
group of parents and how justthe complaining corner?
And yeah, we all need to airour grievances every while.
(34:42):
But every conversation, everyconversation is something bad
Really Like.
That is a good indication ofwhere you are going and how it's
going to shape your worldview,whether you realize it or not.
Making a switch there andmaking sure you are being
influenced by someone withstrong instruction, strong
(35:03):
relationship skills with strong,by someone with strong
instruction, strong inrelationship skills with strong.
I mean just you can, whateverit is, and put those five people
around you and be intentionalwith that and watch how you soar
.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
And I would even challenge them to take a step
further.
Not even just the people youhang out with at school.
The people you hang out withyou're not at school Because
when you're not at work and youwant to recharge your battery
are you around negative people?
That is just a life.
I don't care if you'relistening and you're not a
teacher.
Whatever you do for a living,if you are spending time around
(35:35):
people that are constantlynegative, it's going to drain
you.
Life is going to drain youenough.
Make sure that you are pickingpeople Like you said.
I'm not complaining, I'mexplaining.
'm explaining sometimes.
Yes, we got to get some thingsoff our chest, but if everything
is drag, dragging you down,it's like having an eeyore.
You know you can either have aneeyore or a piglet.
Piglet was positive.
He was like we can do this.
(35:56):
Poo eeyore.
Like come on, poo, we're backat work again.
Standardized testing here itcomes.
Like what type of energy andwhat type of folks you keep
around you.
I think that's a lesson in thebuilding and out of the building
one.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
So what I want to do?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
to close, I got some.
I got some, uh, some quick firequestions for you, so I hope
you're ready.
We are going to do these musicthemed, so the quick fire
questions as we get ready toclose.
You can only listen to onemusic artist ever again.
Who is that artist?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Oh man, in the spirit of musicianship, I'm going to
go.
Bruno Mars.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Bruno Mars.
I like it.
Okay, yeah, the second questionthe best music themed movie
ever Any.
It doesn't have to be like amusical, but the best music
themed movie ever any, itdoesn't have to be like a
musical, but the best musicthemed movie ever.
I know what my answer is andI'll share mine when you're done
off the top.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I'm just thinking of the, the artistry, the talent
and just the overall impact.
I probably have to say Ray.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Ooh, that is a good one.
That was a very good movie.
So my answer was Sister Act 2.
I just love Sister MaryClarence, like she just has that
, that energy that.
I agree that was the movie thatchanged not changed Jamie
Foxx's career, but it allowedyou to see that he's not just
some goofball.
Yes, and I was like, wow,talent he killed that Pure
(37:33):
talent, top to bottom.
Love it.
I was not even thinking that,so that was a good one.
The last question I have thisone's going to be a little
tougher, okay, a little tougher,okay, if you could.
So I want an album title thatwould describe your educational
(37:53):
career.
So any, it doesn't have to bealbum, just the album title that
would describe your educationalcareer life after death life
after death that experience thatI had, the old me.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I laid him to rest and move forward with the new
Sean and a new dawn of education.
Let's go ahead and stop itright there.
Life after death, that's it.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
That's it.
That's it, dr Woolley man.
I appreciate so much forjumping on.
I want to give you anopportunity for those that are
listening and wondering whereyou can connect.
If you are listening andwatching this on YouTube, all of
this information will be in thedescription.
Please go check them out.
But can you just let everyoneknow it's listening, where they
can find you, where they can getthese hoodies, bro?
(38:36):
I'll be honest with you, I getmore compliments when I wear
this hoodie than when I wearanything else.
I'm not even kidding you, bro.
This hoodie, not only does itlook good, bro, it's comfortable
.
I'm a hoodies guy.
Oh man, I appreciate thatYou've done it.
I wish I had a piece of thebrand.
I'll be honest with you as abusinessman.
I wish it was mine.
(39:00):
But I love that rep becauseit's yours.
But yeah, let everyone knowwhere they can find you, where
they can follow you on socialmedia, your website, all of that
information.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
I want to give you the opportunity to do that right
now.
Yes, sir, before I do that, Iwant to thank you again for the
opportunity to have thisconversation, what you are doing
and the work that you areputting out there and the impact
that you are having.
Chef's kiss to you, brother.
Thank you, real talk.
I appreciate you, but you canfind me at all things Teach
Hustle Inspireteachhustleinspirecom Instagram.
Teach Hustle Inspireteachhustleinspirecom Instagram
threads.
(39:26):
At teachhustleinspire Facebook.
At teachhustleinspire Twitteror X, if you want to call it
that.
It's at Sean Woodley, my firstand last name, and anywhere,
usually most educationconferences.
I go to a lot of educationconferences, but I work with a
lot of schools in various partsof the country, so I'm on the
(39:48):
road a lot, but I'm on socialmedia pretty much every single
day in some way, shape or form,and I'd love to connect with you
.
Holler, at me, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Man.
If you are listening, I cannotencourage you enough to find a
conference that he is at, reachout to him, bring him in front
of your educators.
The hour I have seen himpresent can change the culture
in your school.
I would encourage you toconnect with them, follow them
(40:16):
on social media.
And as I get ready to close, Iwant to make sure I take a
second to thank our sponsor, beWell Teacher Box, a gift box
made for teachers by teachers tohelp them focus on their
self-care.
Wwwbewellteachercom.
Use code TEACHERSED to save $7.
Dr Woodley, I appreciate youjumping on.
(40:36):
I appreciate you all forlistening.
Make sure you like, make sureyou subscribe, make sure you
leave us a review, make sure yougo, follow Dr Woodley, make
sure you buy one of thesehoodies so you can wrap it
alongside of us.
Um, and until next sunday, makesure you guys take care of
yourselves and have anincredible week.
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